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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.

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<v Speaker 2>Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas. While I think this is the

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<v Speaker 2>first time we've done a Christmas Day podcast, well we

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<v Speaker 2>recorded it a day before that, but whatever, it's Christmas Day.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a tenth century medieval Christmas song about nine hundred

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, actually closer to the thousand years ago. And

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<v Speaker 2>you can tell by the instruments. They're very rudimentary, very

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<v Speaker 2>earth laden, earthbound instruments would win and some drums. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what they had back then. And that kind of is

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<v Speaker 2>a fitting introduction to our program today, which is all

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<v Speaker 2>about early Christmas and working with the spirits, working with

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<v Speaker 2>the nature, and working with Gaya the planet. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's fitting to have that early period piece to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of give us the flavor of what we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>discuss today. Hey, Hi, this is Cliff, your host of Destiny,

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<v Speaker 2>and I am excited to have our guests back today.

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<v Speaker 2>Ellen Edward Hopmanshe is a pagan, a herbalist, also a

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<v Speaker 2>kind of historian into what our ancestors did during the

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<v Speaker 2>holidays and most notably the winter solstice or otherwise known

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<v Speaker 2>as Christmas time. And this is important to understand because

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<v Speaker 2>we've lost our connection to Gaya in many ways and

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<v Speaker 2>to these spirits that are around and working with us.

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<v Speaker 2>And during the holidays, it's really important to have some

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<v Speaker 2>form of ritual that's either the mule log in our fireplace,

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<v Speaker 2>the mule candle, which is burning a candle Christmas Day

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<v Speaker 2>and then putting our energy into that for a good

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<v Speaker 2>New Year and all the good things that happen. We

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<v Speaker 2>want to also understand and work with the nature spirits.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is something that my grandfather kind of handed

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<v Speaker 2>down to me. He was a immigrant from Germany, and

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<v Speaker 2>they had very traditional Christmas time. They had Christmas breads,

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<v Speaker 2>nut breads, they made their own mead, and then we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking in the early turn of the century. He was

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<v Speaker 2>born in nineteen oh five, and so they practiced a

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<v Speaker 2>different kind of commercial, non commercial Christmas where they all

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<v Speaker 2>got together and they sang carols, and they made their

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<v Speaker 2>own food and they made their own wreaths. But they

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<v Speaker 2>also were very much attuned to the season changes. And

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<v Speaker 2>what we're going to hear about today is just how

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<v Speaker 2>important it is to have a ritual to understand that

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<v Speaker 2>as the seasons change, you understand what happened. You just

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<v Speaker 2>discuss it and then you move on and prepare for

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<v Speaker 2>the new year. And we don't do that. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>we simply just gather. We open presents. People are rushing

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<v Speaker 2>around trying to get people presents. The presents are really

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<v Speaker 2>secondary to acknowledging our place here on the planet. And

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<v Speaker 2>as you'll hear in today's program, these simple rituals that

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<v Speaker 2>are practiced are very, very powerful, and they are thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of years old, and they really show that our ancestors

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<v Speaker 2>were much more in tune to not only the seasons

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<v Speaker 2>that are changing winter, spring, fall, summer, but that but

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<v Speaker 2>that that there are spirits. There are good and they're

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<v Speaker 2>not so good spirits. There are jokesters, and and we

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<v Speaker 2>don't discuss this a great deal of today, but there

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<v Speaker 2>are fairies, and there are unseen elementals. And we've talked

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<v Speaker 2>about elementals. We've talked about beings that are just beyond

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<v Speaker 2>our vision, perhaps dimensional beings that are here on Earth,

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<v Speaker 2>that have been here as long as the Earth has

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<v Speaker 2>been here. And what's important is to understand them, but

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<v Speaker 2>more importantly, it's to take your energy and intend for

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<v Speaker 2>a good year, to come, intend on a healthy future

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<v Speaker 2>and healthy friends and family, intend on success, intend on

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<v Speaker 2>a healthy guy at because if the planet's not healthy,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not going to be healthy. So on this Christmas Day,

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<v Speaker 2>we are thinking about our ancestors, we're thinking about the past.

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<v Speaker 2>We're celebrating, but we're also understanding what we're missing and

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<v Speaker 2>how to correct that with alters, with divination, with rituals,

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<v Speaker 2>and with intention. So today's program is a Pagan's Christmas

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<v Speaker 2>and my guest is Ellen Everett Hopman. It's a holiday,

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<v Speaker 2>it's Christmas. I've never had a show that lands on Christmas,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm kind of excited about that because that's fun

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<v Speaker 2>and it's the first time. And we're going to go

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<v Speaker 2>to the ancient past this program, we're having the return

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<v Speaker 2>of Ellen Hotman. She wrote a book last year. It

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<v Speaker 2>came out. It's called The Sacred Herbs of Yule and

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas Remedies, Recipes, Magic and Bruise for the Winter Season.

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<v Speaker 2>And we touched on it just briefly last year and

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<v Speaker 2>it is a fascinating book. It's very well researched. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't know who Ellen is, she is a

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<v Speaker 2>master herbalist. She's also a homeopath. She's been a Drink

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<v Speaker 2>Initiate since nineteen eighty four. She's a founding member of

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<v Speaker 2>the Order of the White Oak arch Judas and founder

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<v Speaker 2>of the Tribe of the Oak, and a former professor

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<v Speaker 2>of Gray School of Wizardry. And the thing that's important

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<v Speaker 2>about talking with someone like Ellen is we're into this

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<v Speaker 2>commercial scene, get your trigue, get the lights, have your

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<v Speaker 2>friends over, and we're forgetting the fundamentals of the energy

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<v Speaker 2>behind the winter Solstice, which is Christmas, and we want

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about this. We want to bring this energy

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<v Speaker 2>back and we're going to talk about the rituals that

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<v Speaker 2>our ancestors practice around this time of year, and it

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<v Speaker 2>has to do with the unseen world, and it has

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<v Speaker 2>to do with the energy of seasonal changes and what

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<v Speaker 2>that means to us as physical beings. So Ellen, welcome

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<v Speaker 2>to Destiny. Good to see you again, and happy Solstice.

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Yule and Kwanza and Hankhah and everything that's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of holidays to mention during this time year,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't there. Kwanzahnika and of course Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, everybody celebrates the light, the return of the light.

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<v Speaker 1>The nice thing is that no matter where you are

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<v Speaker 1>on the planet. We all experience the dark and then

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<v Speaker 1>the return of the light. It's universal right, no matter

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<v Speaker 1>what religion you are.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the things I want you to touch on

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<v Speaker 2>as we bring in our ancestors today is the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that they were very much in touch with the spirits

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<v Speaker 2>of the winter of the solstice. And in your book

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<v Speaker 2>you talk about the act of spirits coming into the

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<v Speaker 2>homes and leaving. What was the sense that our ancestors

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<v Speaker 2>had of these nature spirits.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is the darkest time of year, so the

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<v Speaker 1>feeling was that these dark, dark energies that live underground

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<v Speaker 1>emerge at this time of year because this is that

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<v Speaker 1>the earth is dark, so it's they feel comfortable, the

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<v Speaker 1>most comfortable time for them. So, for example, in the

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<v Speaker 1>Greek tradition, you have these horrible little, cloven foot black

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<v Speaker 1>elves that can invade the house, and so you have

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<v Speaker 1>to be very careful. You have to make sure all

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<v Speaker 1>the windows are shut, the doors are shut, no cracks.

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<v Speaker 1>There's one problem though, the chimney, you know, and everybody

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<v Speaker 1>had a chimney, right, so they can always come down

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<v Speaker 1>the chimney. And this idea of spirits coming down the

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<v Speaker 1>chimney is fairly universal. It's not just Santa Claus who

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<v Speaker 1>comes down the chimney. There's a lot of a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of you know La Bifanna, who's the Italian Christmas, which

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<v Speaker 1>she gets in down the chimney because if everything else

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<v Speaker 1>is closed, the only other opening is the keyhole. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a good idea to make sure you have a

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<v Speaker 1>key in the keyhole because they can come in through

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<v Speaker 1>the keyhole or down the chimney. So these elves, they

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<v Speaker 1>only come around this time at the darkest time of year.

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<v Speaker 1>You had to take caution. You could burn the herb

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<v Speaker 1>hissop in your fireplace and that repelled them. And if

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<v Speaker 1>things if weird things were happening in the house, like

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<v Speaker 1>things were breaking on accountably or disappearing. I mean I've

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<v Speaker 1>had that happen. You know, something that you always put

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<v Speaker 1>in the same place, all of a sudden it's gone,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like what the heck. So you know that

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<v Speaker 1>these elves are around. If it gets really bad, what

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<v Speaker 1>you do is you take a strip of leather. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's fascinating to me that this is both in the

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<v Speaker 1>Greek tradition, it's also in the Scottish tradition. If you

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<v Speaker 1>have a really bad infestation. You take a strip of

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<v Speaker 1>leather and you burn that in the fireplace. And the

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<v Speaker 1>Greek tradition it's all old shoes. In the Scottish tradition

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<v Speaker 1>it's a piece of leather. But but you do a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of protection spells. I guess you would say at

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<v Speaker 1>this time, that's why we partly why we hang holly

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<v Speaker 1>on the door. For example, Holly is a warrior plant,

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<v Speaker 1>and because you know if you grab a bunch of holly,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to prick you, right, you hang holly on

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<v Speaker 1>the door and that will prevent evil spirits from coming in.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's just a lot like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do we I mean, during that period of

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<v Speaker 2>time we're communing with these spirits and being you know,

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<v Speaker 2>bothered by them. What would the local shaman slash witch

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<v Speaker 2>slash herbalists do? Would would she be available or he

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<v Speaker 2>be available for consultations on issues regarding specific problems?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, there are a lot of the herbs that

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<v Speaker 1>are associated with Christmas. In the book, I have lots

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<v Speaker 1>and lots of herbs, and I talk about the magical

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<v Speaker 1>properties and the medicinal properties as well, But a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the Christmas specific plants like I said, Holly, there's

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<v Speaker 1>just a lot of them. Bay Laurel is another one.

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<v Speaker 1>In Rome, they would hang a wreath of laurel on

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<v Speaker 1>the door, which symbolizes victory. You know. The victors in

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<v Speaker 1>the Olympic Games were crowned with laurel wreaths, right, and

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<v Speaker 1>they had poetry. I think they need to bring this back.

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<v Speaker 1>They also had poetry competitions at the Olympic Games and

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<v Speaker 1>they got a laurel wreath.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>But by hanging a wreath on the laurel, you're saying

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<v Speaker 1>it's a symbol of victory and strength, you know. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's gonna scare away any any potential spirits. And there's

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<v Speaker 1>I mean in the book I talk about a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of these things. The spirit A lot of the spirits

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<v Speaker 1>that want to attack the house are not that bright.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are things you can do. For example, if

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<v Speaker 1>you put an upside down calender. You know, calenders have

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<v Speaker 1>holes in them. You put an upside down calender in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the door, and the spirits will look at

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<v Speaker 1>that and try to count the holes, and they'll get

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<v Speaker 1>so preoccupied with because they can't count beyond two, so

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<v Speaker 1>one two one, you know, And they'll get lost and

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<v Speaker 1>then they won't come in the house, you know. Or

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<v Speaker 1>you can throw things on the roof. That's another tradition.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, balls of cake or bread or something, you

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<v Speaker 1>throw that on the roof. I mean, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of that in the book. You know, how to protect

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<v Speaker 1>the house.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm calling them nature spirits. But where there are

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<v Speaker 2>specific names and specific problems with these entities, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about their jokesters, is what it sounds like.

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<v Speaker 2>But are there levels to these guys where somebody could

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<v Speaker 2>get in real trouble if they don't get their act together?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, where wolves are active at this time of year.

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<v Speaker 1>This is one of the most active times for were wolves.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the Eastern European tradition this is where wolf time.

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<v Speaker 1>So fire magic is big at Christmas. That's why we

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<v Speaker 1>have Christmas candles, Christmas bonfires. We put lights on the house,

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<v Speaker 1>we put lights on the tree. That's all fire magic,

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<v Speaker 1>which we remember from ancient times, which is also protective

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<v Speaker 1>because remember, these nasty things they like the dark, and

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<v Speaker 1>so we make it so it's not dark. But if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to repel where wolves, you take ashes from

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<v Speaker 1>the from the fireplace and you throw them on the

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<v Speaker 1>entrance way, and that repair repels were wolves according to

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<v Speaker 1>Eastern European tradition. But I think that that there's something

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<v Speaker 1>much older going on there there. In the old times,

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<v Speaker 1>it was probably embers lit embers that you would throw

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<v Speaker 1>out in the snow, because again you're putting light out there,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's going to prevent any of these dark entities

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<v Speaker 1>from approaching.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to get into the mule log here in

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<v Speaker 2>a second, but before we do, are there during the

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<v Speaker 2>transition period, is there a time to have your your

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<v Speaker 2>altar set up? And are there special practices that we

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<v Speaker 2>would you know, divinations and other rituals that we would

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<v Speaker 2>practice at the beginning of well where the right now

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<v Speaker 2>we're in the saustice, which was a twenty first of December.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there something leading up to the solstice that's very critical?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you look at Newgrange in Ireland, which is

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<v Speaker 1>five thousand years old, you look at Stonehenge, you know

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<v Speaker 1>the solstice you could say it hasn't finished yet. It's

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<v Speaker 1>about a five day period, so it's not too late

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<v Speaker 1>to celebrate solstice. You can still do it. Really, the

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<v Speaker 1>sun appears to stand still for roughly five days. So

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<v Speaker 1>what you would do for a solstice ceremony is you

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<v Speaker 1>would gather your friends and relatives and you would come

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<v Speaker 1>into a room and you would make sure there was

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<v Speaker 1>no light whatsoever, because what we're doing is you're honoring

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<v Speaker 1>the dark because again this is the darkest time of year,

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<v Speaker 1>so we're following the cycle of nature, which is dark

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<v Speaker 1>right now. So you start in the dark, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you talk about the past year, what happened during the

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<v Speaker 1>wheel of the year. You know, what happened at solstice,

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<v Speaker 1>what happened in the spring, what happened in the summer,

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<v Speaker 1>what happened in the fall, what happened in the winter.

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<v Speaker 1>You share stories, you might honor the earth, nature, the animals,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, whatever you feel like giving. It's you give

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<v Speaker 1>thanks basically in the dark. Everybody's in the dark.

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<v Speaker 2>In the dark.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's really dark, because after about five o'clock

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<v Speaker 1>it's completely dark. You know, you make sure you turn out.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no electronics, you know, there's no Christmas tree, nothing,

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<v Speaker 1>just dark and you're sitting there in the dark. And

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<v Speaker 1>then when you're done with all that, one person lights

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<v Speaker 1>a candle and then everybody in the room is holding

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<v Speaker 1>a little candle, and then that first person lights the

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<v Speaker 1>candle of the person next to them, and that person

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<v Speaker 1>lights the candle of the person next to them, and

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<v Speaker 1>then you go around the room and gradually the whole

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<v Speaker 1>room is filled with light. Okay, And so it's the

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<v Speaker 1>return of the sun. And you can even call out

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<v Speaker 1>to the sun. I used to, I'm too old now.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to get up before dawn, even if it

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<v Speaker 1>was snowing in the dark, you know, and go up

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<v Speaker 1>a hill. There was a bunch of people that I

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<v Speaker 1>did this with every year, and we would wait for

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<v Speaker 1>the sun to come up, and when the sun appeared,

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<v Speaker 1>we would start chanting and singing and playing instruments. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's another thing you can do just to welcome the

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<v Speaker 1>sun back. And then we would go share gifts and

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<v Speaker 1>have breakfast.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>This was on Christmas Eve, Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Solstice Solstice morning.

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<v Speaker 2>The twenty first, Yeah, Solstice morning, okay morning, And anyways,

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<v Speaker 2>the solstice happening is much more powerful in this artificial

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifth of December, which is supposed to be the

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<v Speaker 2>day of Christ's birth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the twenty fifth of December was chosen as a date.

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<v Speaker 1>It has nothing to do with Jesus. He wasn't born

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<v Speaker 1>on the twenty fifth of December. It's actually the birthday

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<v Speaker 1>of the god Mithras, who's a god to fight, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And so so the church did what they usually did.

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<v Speaker 1>They co opted a pagan celebration to make Christmas because

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<v Speaker 1>everybody was used to celebrating on the twenty fifth of December,

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<v Speaker 1>so they just took that date. They took the holiday.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing is funny though, and I want you to

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<v Speaker 2>really briefly talk about this ellen which is a Saint

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<v Speaker 2>Nicholas actually came in your book. He seems to understand

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<v Speaker 2>these spirits. So Saint nick is actually a pagan priest.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like or a shaman of some kind. Who

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<v Speaker 2>is who is? And I could have this wrong. He

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<v Speaker 2>is banishing the dark forces in a way, because we

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<v Speaker 2>see him in a number of different situations. Talk a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit about Saint Nicholas.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he was an actual person. He was a bishop.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I don't have my notes in front of me,

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<v Speaker 1>but no, he was an actual person, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>very generous. He was definitely a church He was a

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<v Speaker 1>bishop or an archbishop, and he gave away his possessions

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<v Speaker 1>his money to the poor and he was very famous

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<v Speaker 1>for that. So he was a real guy. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>archaeologists you can look this up just recently, they have

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<v Speaker 1>his skull, so they were able to re create his

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<v Speaker 1>face and guess what he looks like Santa Claus. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>my god, looks just like Santa Claus. Yeah, it's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>But no, he was very generous and for example, there

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<v Speaker 1>was a very poor family that had daughters and they

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<v Speaker 1>were so poor that the daughters would have had to

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<v Speaker 1>go into prostitution because that would be the only way

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<v Speaker 1>the family could survive. So he gave money to the

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<v Speaker 1>family so that the daughters wouldn't have to do that. Wow,

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00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:27.119
<v Speaker 1>that was the kind of thing he did.

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<v Speaker 2>So the image of him with the crampises, which are

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of a spirit, is kind of a folk tale,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's that's that's not true.

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<v Speaker 1>Because Crampis is fairly new as I understand it. That's

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<v Speaker 1>a new thing. It's not an ancient pagan thing. But

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<v Speaker 1>Crampis is very useful at Christmas time for controlling children.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Actually, let our audience know that Crampus is this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of an evil looking with horns, devil like figure

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<v Speaker 2>who uh, spanks children to keep them in h in

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<v Speaker 2>good good behavior. I guess I'm not sure quite what

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<v Speaker 2>he does.

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<v Speaker 1>But even worse, he will abduct children and put them

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<v Speaker 1>in a basket that he carries on his back and

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<v Speaker 1>he will ski away with them. So and and yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and he has a switch. And you know, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I was born in Austria. I lived in Germany as

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<v Speaker 1>well when I was little. And you can always threaten

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<v Speaker 1>kids around Christmas time, like hey, you know campus is

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<v Speaker 1>gonna come, or you're not you know, you're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to get any presents, you know whatever, and it works.

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<v Speaker 2>They actually had in San Antonio this year they had

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<v Speaker 2>a big Crampis festival, first time apparently, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of taking a route in the United States different places.

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<v Speaker 2>It's huge in Germany and a yeah, and you can

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<v Speaker 2>actually have somebody carved out of wood. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how much it costs, probably expensive. A Crampis figure fascinating,

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<v Speaker 2>very strange. Let's talk about the yule log, the creation

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<v Speaker 2>of the yule log. When did that start and what

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<v Speaker 2>is the purpose of creating the mule log?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, again this goes back to fire magic. It's

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<v Speaker 1>part of the fire magic theme. But Yule log is

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<v Speaker 1>a continuous fire that protects the home in the darkest

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<v Speaker 1>part of the year. Same thing, Okay, so in medieval times.

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<v Speaker 1>In ancient times, they would have had a whole tree,

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<v Speaker 1>basically a giant log, and you just keep feeding it

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<v Speaker 1>into the fireplace continuously during the dark time of year.

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<v Speaker 1>So in France, the whole family would go out to

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<v Speaker 1>cut down the log with ceremonial. In Norway's it was

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<v Speaker 1>the father of the home. In England it was cut

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<v Speaker 1>at in bulk or Candlemus, which is in February, and

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<v Speaker 1>then put aside to dry for the year. In Serbia

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<v Speaker 1>it had to be cut early on Christmas morning and

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<v Speaker 1>then it was brought into the house by candle light

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<v Speaker 1>in the evening. So but I mean, they're all everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>doing the same thing. They're bringing this perpetual fire, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to keep evil spirits from coming down the chimney.

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<v Speaker 1>Although how Santa Claus bypasses on side, I guess it's

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<v Speaker 1>more powerful. But so what you do is and and

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<v Speaker 1>also if you I don't understand, if you cut a

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<v Speaker 1>tree in the morning and then try to burn it

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<v Speaker 1>in the evening, it's probably going to be pretty green.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I like the English version better, but anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>so traditionally you would decorate the Yule log as you

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<v Speaker 1>were dragging it to the house. You might sprinkle grain

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<v Speaker 1>or wheat on it, and I have a whole chapter

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<v Speaker 1>on that on grain. Grain itself is incredibly spiritual, very symbolic.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the power of the sun and the growth of

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<v Speaker 1>the warm half of the year, which is contained in

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<v Speaker 1>the grain. So you put that on the Yule log.

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<v Speaker 1>You might put bread on the mule log, a loaf

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<v Speaker 1>of bread, because that's made from the grain. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>herbs like juniper, which is an herb of purification. Coins.

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<v Speaker 1>After you bring the log into the house, everything that

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<v Speaker 1>was riding on the log on the way into the house,

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<v Speaker 1>like the bread and the coins and all that. Now

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<v Speaker 1>it has magical power because it's got the power of

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<v Speaker 1>the season, and you can give away the coins or

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<v Speaker 1>eat the bread.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a short commercial break to allow

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<v Speaker 2>our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly

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<v Speaker 2>with my guest today, Ellen Everett Hopmann, discussing her holiday

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<v Speaker 2>book The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. Will be

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<v Speaker 2>right back.

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<v Speaker 1>We wish you, I me Christmas. We wish you.

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<v Speaker 2>I me Christmas, We wish you Christmass. Ellen Everett Hotman

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<v Speaker 2>is my guest today and she is a pagan who

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<v Speaker 2>has studied Winter Solstice rituals, mostly in Europe, but in

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<v Speaker 2>other parts of the planet. And we're getting a sense

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<v Speaker 2>of how our ancestors celebrated among spirits and also Gaya,

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00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:31.799
<v Speaker 2>this yule log could be a whole tree that they

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<v Speaker 2>keep cutting and feeding into the fire. Is that what

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<v Speaker 2>you're suggesting.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't have to cut it, you just keep pushing

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<v Speaker 1>it in as it burns.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so it's sticking out into the yeah, round of

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<v Speaker 2>the fireplace?

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:54.440
<v Speaker 1>You could also put alcohol sprinkle wine or vodka or

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00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 1>something like that on it. And coins are solar symbols,

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00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>so round coins, I mean, gold would be the ideal,

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00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.279
<v Speaker 1>but who has gold coins? And you know there's the

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00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.000
<v Speaker 1>chocolate ones I guess, but that's the symbol of the

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00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:18.599
<v Speaker 1>sun again. And what else In England? Oak would be

402
00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:24.480
<v Speaker 1>traditional in France, cherry in Scotland, Birch, so depending on

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00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:30.240
<v Speaker 1>where you are. Yeah, so it's burned from Christmas Day

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00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:31.640
<v Speaker 1>until January fifth.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, So this is an ongoing. Yeah, it's

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00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.200
<v Speaker 2>an energy. Talk about the divination behind that, because in

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00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 2>part of your book you say that you can take

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<v Speaker 2>the ash from the yule log and place it at

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<v Speaker 2>the entrance of the door to keep spirits away.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, the you always keep some of the yule

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00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 1>log and you can hide it in the eves of

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00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:05.640
<v Speaker 1>the house, you know, or just keep it somewhere because

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00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.960
<v Speaker 1>it's very protective. And of course if you need to

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<v Speaker 1>repel were wolves, I would save some of the ash.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the first time you've gotten into some scary stuff

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00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.720
<v Speaker 2>like where wolves ellen getting into a horror show here.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, it's the dark time of year, the

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00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.240
<v Speaker 1>wild hunt is flying across the sky, and you got

419
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.480
<v Speaker 1>witches coming down the chimney and were wolves at the door.

420
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, in ancient times, this was a scary time.

421
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Imagine your fire goes out, your nearest neighbor is miles away.

422
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.279
<v Speaker 1>You know. It wasn't a joke.

423
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:53.039
<v Speaker 2>So people are imbuing this mulelog with their hopes and

424
00:30:53.079 --> 00:31:01.079
<v Speaker 2>wishes and blessings, and it is becoming a healing and

425
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:10.519
<v Speaker 2>a piece of protection, is what it sounds like. Yeah,

426
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:17.240
<v Speaker 2>or these special times of year, right, Wow, that's amazing.

427
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Speaker 1>It's all about fire magic. So just think of fire,

428
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.519
<v Speaker 1>whether it's an electric bulb, a candle, a fire in

429
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.359
<v Speaker 1>the fireplace, that ule lug, it's all the same thing.

430
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.279
<v Speaker 1>It's fire magic. You know, in ancient times they didn't

431
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 1>have electricity, so any kind of fire, even just carrying

432
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>lit coals around the house. In Scotland there's a tradition

433
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>called saning, so when you move into a new house

434
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.880
<v Speaker 1>you have to purify the house and land. So you

435
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.640
<v Speaker 1>take lit coals, lit embers, you put them in a

436
00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.759
<v Speaker 1>shovel and you walk around the house three times with

437
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.839
<v Speaker 1>that to purify the house. It's fire magic, that's what

438
00:31:57.920 --> 00:31:58.319
<v Speaker 1>that is.

439
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.039
<v Speaker 2>People who don't have a fireplace, which I mean this

440
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:09.000
<v Speaker 2>is modern time, or if somebody in the seventeenth century

441
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:12.680
<v Speaker 2>live in an apartment, you talk about the mule candle,

442
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.599
<v Speaker 2>which is the same kind of a thing, but on

443
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.960
<v Speaker 2>a smaller scale. Describe that for us.

444
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so again fire magic. It's part of the fire magic.

445
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.880
<v Speaker 1>But in England a mule candle was lit and burned

446
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:31.920
<v Speaker 1>all day on Christmas. Okay, in Scandinavia was lit on

447
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Christmas even burned all night. So in both cases you

448
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.480
<v Speaker 1>save the stub and then you can rub that on

449
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:46.359
<v Speaker 1>the plow, and you can also hide it somewhere in

450
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the house to protect the house from storms and again,

451
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and this fire magic just goes on and on and on.

452
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:01.960
<v Speaker 1>In Shetland, a Viking long ship is carried through town

453
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.359
<v Speaker 1>and then set on fire. In Scotland there's the burning

454
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.440
<v Speaker 1>of the Klavi, which is a wooden barrel filled with

455
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:10.920
<v Speaker 1>tar that is set on fire and rolled down the

456
00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>hill and everybody tries to get an ember from that

457
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:20.119
<v Speaker 1>for luck to put somewhere in the house. And in

458
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.559
<v Speaker 1>modern times, what do we do. We decorate the house

459
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.079
<v Speaker 1>with lights and we put lights on the Christmas tree.

460
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:31.880
<v Speaker 2>It's the same idea our ancestors. Would they get the

461
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 2>candle from a shaman, a witch, a pagan, somebody who

462
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:41.559
<v Speaker 2>was kind of a nature connected to nature more than them,

463
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:47.119
<v Speaker 2>and that would be made by somebody with a special technique.

464
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:50.839
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't think so. Just a regular candle.

465
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, because it's a certain time of year, that

466
00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:00.039
<v Speaker 2>candle's imbued with certain energy, the thoughts, the feelings, the

467
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:00.920
<v Speaker 2>hopes and wishes.

468
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's the fire itself. It's not the candle so

469
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 1>much as the fire. Yeah, and yeah, in some traditions,

470
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.880
<v Speaker 1>you leave a candle burning outside and that's supposed to

471
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:20.400
<v Speaker 1>be or in the window, and that's a symbol that

472
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:25.920
<v Speaker 1>tells neighbors that somebody's home and that you can come visit,

473
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:28.840
<v Speaker 1>or you can come inside if you need to get warm.

474
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:33.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's just a lot around fire that it's

475
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:36.840
<v Speaker 1>all to counteract the dark forces at this time of year,

476
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:37.599
<v Speaker 1>that's what it is.

477
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.800
<v Speaker 2>This is the first time I've heard about the candle,

478
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:42.079
<v Speaker 2>the old candle, so I definitely want to do that.

479
00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.079
<v Speaker 2>I think for those of us who are not able,

480
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.920
<v Speaker 2>who don't have a fireplace, a candle's wonderful. And then

481
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>to burn it all day that's easy to do. Is

482
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>there any suggestions for rituals or divination of that candle

483
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 2>that we should be thinking about.

484
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, be careful, just be careful.

485
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Where you put the candle, right, Yeah.

486
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean I used to. I used to do a

487
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:15.800
<v Speaker 1>candle vigil, I guess every month, but I had to

488
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 1>go to work and the thought of leaving a candle

489
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.760
<v Speaker 1>burning in the house was a little much. So I

490
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 1>finally figured out I could leave it in the bathtub,

491
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 1>right because even if the cat knocked it over it

492
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:30.960
<v Speaker 1>wasn't going to catch anything on fire. Make sure the

493
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, the shower curtain is far from the candle. Yeah,

494
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, you could put it in the kitchen sink,

495
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:41.239
<v Speaker 1>or you could put it in the bathtub, and then

496
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 1>you can go to work. That's what I used to do.

497
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again when it's burnt to the bottom, that

498
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 2>that remaining candle symbol is a symbol for a good

499
00:35:57.639 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 2>coming year.

500
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and protection and purification.

501
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's easy to do. Yeah.

502
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:07.519
<v Speaker 1>You can carry the stub in your pocket, or you

503
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:12.199
<v Speaker 1>can hide it somewhere in the house, you know, but

504
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 1>ever you want. It's got that fire energy. It's fire

505
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:22.960
<v Speaker 1>is sacred. You know. In ancient Indo European tradition, the

506
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.440
<v Speaker 1>whole world was made of fire and water. Those were

507
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.679
<v Speaker 1>the two basic elements. Everything you looked at was a

508
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.920
<v Speaker 1>combination of fire and water, except in Scandinavia it was

509
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.800
<v Speaker 1>fire and ice. But it's the same thing, you know.

510
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:43.920
<v Speaker 1>So if you're working magic, water is very important. You

511
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 1>can do water spells and fire is very important. But

512
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:49.760
<v Speaker 1>this time of year, it's fire.

513
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:55.239
<v Speaker 2>And obviously, and we're going to get into this shortly.

514
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:59.119
<v Speaker 2>If you have an altar, your candle should be around

515
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:04.199
<v Speaker 2>your other sacred objects. Right, talk a little quick briefly

516
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:06.159
<v Speaker 2>about the altar in light, Okay, to.

517
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Keep your keep the house from burning down. It's always

518
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.920
<v Speaker 1>a good idea if you're gonna do that, if you're

519
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:14.800
<v Speaker 1>gonna have a candle burning all day on the altar.

520
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 1>It's nice to have a metal cauldron and you can

521
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.519
<v Speaker 1>put one candle in there or three candles in there.

522
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:27.519
<v Speaker 1>The number three is very important in Indo European thinking, Underworld,

523
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Middle World, Upper World, triple deities. You know, the number three, land, sea,

524
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:37.880
<v Speaker 1>and sky. Three candles is very nice. Or just one

525
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>candle in a cauldron, a metal cauldron. Just be very

526
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:43.920
<v Speaker 1>cautious when you.

527
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Do that, you know, Okay, yeah, you're right. We don't

528
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.239
<v Speaker 2>have people burning their homes down. For those of you listening,

529
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.519
<v Speaker 2>there you go. There's an ancient tradition that Ellen's presenting

530
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:58.239
<v Speaker 2>to us. Get your candle out. Light it Christmas morning

531
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.519
<v Speaker 2>when you get up, let it burn all the way

532
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:01.679
<v Speaker 2>through the day and there.

533
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.360
<v Speaker 1>You Christmas Eve if you want.

534
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there you go. You got you have a

535
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:11.360
<v Speaker 2>sacred a sacred item to carry with you. I want

536
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to talk about something that I thought that was quite fun,

537
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:21.599
<v Speaker 2>which was weather divinations and predicting upcoming weather.

538
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so traditionally farmers, you know, most people were farmers.

539
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Farmers would pay a lot of attention to what was

540
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:37.199
<v Speaker 1>happening with the weather around youle For example, if you

541
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:41.599
<v Speaker 1>had a green Christmas or a warm winter, that was

542
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:45.800
<v Speaker 1>bad news. And because there was a saying, you know

543
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.800
<v Speaker 1>that if if you have a warm Christmas, the graveyards

544
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:54.800
<v Speaker 1>will fill up. And modern science they didn't know this,

545
00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:58.559
<v Speaker 1>but modern science will tell you that you need the cold.

546
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:03.159
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm really grateful that we got snow last night.

547
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:06.119
<v Speaker 1>We haven't had here in Massachusetts. We haven't had a

548
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:11.480
<v Speaker 1>white Christmas in decades, but we've had very cold weather.

549
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Not cold enough. You really need ten degrees or colder

550
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:19.320
<v Speaker 1>ten below would be great. What it does is it

551
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:25.760
<v Speaker 1>kills off noxious insects, It kills off pathogens, disease germs.

552
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:31.719
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's good. Cold weather is good. So if again,

553
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.360
<v Speaker 1>if you had a warm Christmas, that was bad news.

554
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.559
<v Speaker 1>And I remember during COVID we had a very warm Christmas.

555
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Because I remember, it.

556
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Helps perpetuate disease processes and viruses and things like that. Exactly,

557
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.159
<v Speaker 2>it's not cold to kill them off.

558
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.239
<v Speaker 1>It also means that plants are not going to grow

559
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:55.320
<v Speaker 1>as well. If you have a lot of snow and

560
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:59.360
<v Speaker 1>a very cold Christmas or a very cold winter, plants

561
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.559
<v Speaker 1>are going to grow better. And again it's because the

562
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:07.400
<v Speaker 1>plants get attacked by the insects. If the insects aren't

563
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>killed off, like the wooly adulged for example, that's attacking

564
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:12.599
<v Speaker 1>all the yew trees.

565
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Now.

566
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.159
<v Speaker 1>The only way to get rid of it is you

567
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:20.639
<v Speaker 1>need to have several days where it's ten below. And

568
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I can remember, you know, thirty years ago here in Massachusetts,

569
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>we always had a week or two when it was

570
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 1>ten below because the pipes would freeze. You know, that

571
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:37.679
<v Speaker 1>hasn't happened in you know, I haven't seen that in

572
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirty years. But that kind of cold is very important.

573
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.880
<v Speaker 1>So other kinds of divination. Unmarried women would go to

574
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.039
<v Speaker 1>the hen house. A lot of my friends. I live

575
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:55.840
<v Speaker 1>in western mass so a lot of my friends have

576
00:40:55.960 --> 00:40:59.760
<v Speaker 1>hen houses. You go there on Christmas Eve, you tap

577
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.880
<v Speaker 1>on the door, and if a hen responds, that means

578
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.159
<v Speaker 1>that the woman will remain a spinster. But if a

579
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:17.159
<v Speaker 1>rooster crows, that means that she will marry and then

580
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.159
<v Speaker 1>New Year's which is coming up in just a few days.

581
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.400
<v Speaker 1>There's a British tradition called the flower of the well

582
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.039
<v Speaker 1>and that's the first water drawn from the well on

583
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:34.639
<v Speaker 1>New Year's when the sun hits. The first person that

584
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.280
<v Speaker 1>gets the first water from the well that brings a

585
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:42.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of luck. And if it's a woman, she will

586
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:44.559
<v Speaker 1>marry within the year. I guess women were more worried

587
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:49.480
<v Speaker 1>about getting married than men were. But the flower of

588
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the well was given to the cows to keep them

589
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:57.480
<v Speaker 1>healthy and to guarantee more milk. You could keep it

590
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:03.480
<v Speaker 1>in a bottle to protect the house. So other things

591
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:07.360
<v Speaker 1>they would look at is berries. If the holly bush

592
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 1>had a lot of berries, that meant that the winter

593
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:13.840
<v Speaker 1>coming up was going to be very hard, because nature

594
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:18.039
<v Speaker 1>is always smarter than we are, and nature always knows.

595
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:24.880
<v Speaker 1>But um, I don't know. That's not really divination. If

596
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you want divination, there's a Polish tradition where hot wax

597
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 1>was poured through a key over water. So you have

598
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.719
<v Speaker 1>a large key, you pour melted hot wax through the

599
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:41.599
<v Speaker 1>key into the water, and then you see what image

600
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:43.039
<v Speaker 1>appears in the water.

601
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.440
<v Speaker 2>One of the things I wanted you to talk about

602
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 2>is that And you write this in your book divination

603
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:55.519
<v Speaker 2>for luck and friendship, and people would make specific kinds

604
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of cakes and puddings talk about that, which I follow

605
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:03.039
<v Speaker 2>just because we did that last year. We talked about baking,

606
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:06.960
<v Speaker 2>but I didn't know that they could make a pudding

607
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:08.840
<v Speaker 2>that would have those properties.

608
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:14.679
<v Speaker 1>It could be a pudding like a rice pudding. It

609
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:17.159
<v Speaker 1>could be any kind of a grain dish, because again

610
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.159
<v Speaker 1>grain is very symbolic. It holds the energy of the sun.

611
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.039
<v Speaker 1>It could be a cake cake.

612
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Is what would be the ingredients? Though, Allan, what would

613
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:31.320
<v Speaker 2>be when you're making a cake for friendship and for luck.

614
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Really it could be any cake. It could be any pudding.

615
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:40.920
<v Speaker 1>But what you're doing is you're doing divination for the

616
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:45.159
<v Speaker 1>coming year. So you have little symbolic tokens that are

617
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.079
<v Speaker 1>hidden in the cake. And it could be nuts. It

618
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:54.280
<v Speaker 1>could be like an almond. Whoever finds the almond has

619
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:57.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot of luck. Or it could be more specific,

620
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a coin, uh for wealth obviously you know,

621
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:11.119
<v Speaker 1>a symbol, a little piece of cloths. I mean, it

622
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.960
<v Speaker 1>could be anything. You just ahead of time you assigned

623
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:18.480
<v Speaker 1>meaning to these symbols, and then whoever gets the thing

624
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:24.440
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is that's there, that's the divination for their

625
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:25.039
<v Speaker 1>coming year.

626
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:28.480
<v Speaker 2>So I can see that with baking into the cake,

627
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:32.840
<v Speaker 2>a thimble, a coin of some kind or some other symbology.

628
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.519
<v Speaker 2>But what are we taught. How are we doing this

629
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:36.239
<v Speaker 2>with a pudding.

630
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, when you're making pudding, you know, it starts out

631
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.320
<v Speaker 1>liquid and then it solidifies. So while it's in the

632
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:49.440
<v Speaker 1>liquid state, you just stick it in there, okay, and

633
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 1>then you dish it out or people serve themselves and

634
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:58.519
<v Speaker 1>whoever gets the symbol, whatever it is, it's their divination.

635
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:00.880
<v Speaker 2>You're a cook, Allan, So I'm not a cook. So

636
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.639
<v Speaker 2>tell give us an example of a pudding, is it

637
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.599
<v Speaker 2>because we don't have They didn't have chocolate like we

638
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:11.119
<v Speaker 2>have now. They had they made like fruit puddings or

639
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:14.960
<v Speaker 2>or rice puddings.

640
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Ice. Yeah, rice is very traditional rice pudding. There's all

641
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:25.440
<v Speaker 1>kinds of grain puddings, grain and honey, honey. But that again,

642
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:29.800
<v Speaker 1>honey is a solar symbol. It's golden grain holds the

643
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:32.760
<v Speaker 1>energy of the sun. You can hide a coin in there,

644
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.679
<v Speaker 1>you know. And I have recipes in the book.

645
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.199
<v Speaker 2>By the way, thank you for reminding me. Ellen has

646
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:44.880
<v Speaker 2>put in not only recipes, but all types of techniques

647
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 2>to build your altar. What should be on the altar.

648
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.039
<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about aultars here in a second.

649
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:55.159
<v Speaker 2>And she has recipes almost on every chapter. I think

650
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you have a recipe for something.

651
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:59.199
<v Speaker 1>For every herb. I have a lot of herbs in there,

652
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.599
<v Speaker 1>all the herbs asociated with Christmas. And for every herb,

653
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:08.159
<v Speaker 1>I give the magical properties, the medicinal properties, and a

654
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:15.199
<v Speaker 1>recipe so that you it's called kitchen witchery or hearth druidry.

655
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:18.599
<v Speaker 1>So what you do is you learn the magical properties

656
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:24.880
<v Speaker 1>of a particular herb or spice, and then you can

657
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:30.360
<v Speaker 1>make a dish that incorporates that herb or spice, and

658
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.039
<v Speaker 1>you can eat it or give it to somebody else.

659
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the recipes are in the book. You don't

660
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:38.920
<v Speaker 1>have to think this way, but if you want to,

661
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:43.599
<v Speaker 1>you can. And then that's it becomes a spell, it

662
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:48.840
<v Speaker 1>becomes a brew, you know, a magical brew or a potion.

663
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:49.920
<v Speaker 1>That's what.

664
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:55.519
<v Speaker 2>So the cook is intending for the recipient of this

665
00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 2>meal or brew drink to receive and enhancements.

666
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and what's interesting is a lot of people do

667
00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.079
<v Speaker 1>this and they don't even realize what they're doing. For example,

668
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:14.719
<v Speaker 1>in the south of the US, there's a tradition of

669
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.679
<v Speaker 1>at New Year's you have to have corn bread, you

670
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:21.960
<v Speaker 1>have to have beans, and you have to have greens. Okay,

671
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:27.079
<v Speaker 1>so what's going on there. Corn Bread is golden, which

672
00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:34.880
<v Speaker 1>symbolizes gold. Beans symbolize coins. And then the greenery, whether

673
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:39.639
<v Speaker 1>it's collareds or kale or you know something green spinach,

674
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:45.920
<v Speaker 1>that symbolizes money. And so by serving that at New Year's,

675
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:51.440
<v Speaker 1>what you're doing is you're creating prosperity. You're invoking prosperity

676
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:57.079
<v Speaker 1>for the people that eat it. And you know that's

677
00:47:57.079 --> 00:47:59.559
<v Speaker 1>a spell right there, that's a spell.

678
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, intending things to happen to the recipient of food.

679
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:06.320
<v Speaker 2>That's magic, right.

680
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's magic. And I give a whole bunch of

681
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:18.519
<v Speaker 1>recipes and drink recipes and food recipes, and I go

682
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 1>through all the different herbs and spices and so you

683
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.840
<v Speaker 1>can pick them out and depending on what you need.

684
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:27.960
<v Speaker 1>If you need protection, if you need prosperity, if you

685
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.239
<v Speaker 1>need abundance, if you need love, you know, whatever it

686
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:36.440
<v Speaker 1>needs you need, and you make a dish.

687
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.000
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a short commercial break to allow

688
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:43.679
<v Speaker 2>our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly

689
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:48.400
<v Speaker 2>with my guest today, Ellen Everett Hopmann, the Sacred Herbs

690
00:48:48.400 --> 00:49:20.639
<v Speaker 2>of Yule and Christmas. We'll rejoin you shortly every Christmas.

691
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:38.920
<v Speaker 4>Baby rain Das is coming out to play. Cross is back, and.

692
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:39.880
<v Speaker 2>We're discussing how our ancestors celebrated winter Solstice in the

693
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:45.679
<v Speaker 2>resulting holiday known as Christmas thousands of years ago. This

694
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.960
<v Speaker 2>is all featured in a new book called The Sacred

695
00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:55.679
<v Speaker 2>Herbs of Yule and Christmas. Give us a sample of

696
00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:02.199
<v Speaker 2>what a new relationship food or drink would be. What

697
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:06.159
<v Speaker 2>would what would you make to create something like that?

698
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, in the book, I talk about the ancient historical

699
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:16.960
<v Speaker 1>meaning also of the foods and spices. For example, chocolate.

700
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Chocolate was a sacred drink. It was brought to the

701
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.320
<v Speaker 1>earth by the god Ketzikuadal, who's the feathered serpent, who

702
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:29.000
<v Speaker 1>brought it down on the rays of the morning Star.

703
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 1>So it came from the sky world, and it was

704
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:38.519
<v Speaker 1>so sacred that only royalty and nobles were allowed to

705
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:43.960
<v Speaker 1>eat it or drink it. And we go to the

706
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:47.719
<v Speaker 1>stop and shopping, you know, and buy a bunch of

707
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:51.400
<v Speaker 1>powdered chocolate anytime we want or go to the seven

708
00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:53.679
<v Speaker 1>to eleven and get a chocolate bar. I mean, in

709
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:57.159
<v Speaker 1>those in ancient times you must know this, with the

710
00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:01.480
<v Speaker 1>maya and so on, chocolate was very very special. So

711
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:07.079
<v Speaker 1>the magical property that chocolate had was it enabled you

712
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:12.480
<v Speaker 1>to strengthen bonds of love between people and also between

713
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 1>people and the gods. So the priest class, you know,

714
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:21.480
<v Speaker 1>that class of people were the ones who were drinking

715
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:24.079
<v Speaker 1>the chocolate. The common people were not allowed to touch it.

716
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:30.360
<v Speaker 1>So Mexican chocolate is really good. I have a recipe

717
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:32.760
<v Speaker 1>in there. So you put a little cinnamon, a little

718
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:35.559
<v Speaker 1>cayenne pepper, you know, you whip it to a froth

719
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.239
<v Speaker 1>and drink it. But when you're drinking, you know, share

720
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:42.679
<v Speaker 1>chocolate with somebody. And we still think of chocolate as

721
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:43.480
<v Speaker 1>being romantic.

722
00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Yright yeah, yeah, and.

723
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 1>That's because we have this memory, but we don't know why.

724
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:57.519
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, when you share chocolate at Christmas time, make

725
00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.920
<v Speaker 1>a chocolate, a hot Mexican chocolate, and share it with people,

726
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:08.880
<v Speaker 1>and just remember that this is an ancient, ancient sacred

727
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:16.599
<v Speaker 1>drink and that it's forges bonds of love and communication

728
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 1>between people and the gods, also between people and the

729
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 1>gods and people and people.

730
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I love that. Yeah, yeah, I just got back from

731
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Mexico a few months ago and we were at a

732
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Mayan chocolate factory. It's Mexican, obviously, but it had the

733
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:43.760
<v Speaker 2>same tradition that the Maya had, which was the beans

734
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:48.480
<v Speaker 2>were crushed and used for various paste and things like that,

735
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.599
<v Speaker 2>as well as drinks. So I totally understand what you're

736
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:56.119
<v Speaker 2>talking about. Before we move on from the foods, can

737
00:52:56.199 --> 00:53:00.599
<v Speaker 2>you give us an example of a Christmas dinner and

738
00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:03.559
<v Speaker 2>all the rituals that would be placed within it. What

739
00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.280
<v Speaker 2>would be the meal, what would be like other than vegetables.

740
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.239
<v Speaker 1>I have an entire long chapter on that where I

741
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:16.320
<v Speaker 1>go through all I mean, every culture does it differently, right,

742
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:22.440
<v Speaker 1>so depending on That's one nice thing about the book

743
00:53:22.559 --> 00:53:25.559
<v Speaker 1>is that you know, if you have Danish ancestry or

744
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:27.760
<v Speaker 1>if you have Italian.

745
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.119
<v Speaker 2>In right, you go throughout Europe, don't you. Yeah?

746
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you can look up what Christmas dinner would

747
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:41.719
<v Speaker 1>look like traditionally. Oh, I just opened the book at random,

748
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:44.760
<v Speaker 1>and Scandinavian almond is hidden in a rice pudding served

749
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:48.000
<v Speaker 1>a Christmas. Whoever finds the almond must complete a task

750
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.400
<v Speaker 1>such as inventing a rhyme of thanks for the meal.

751
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.239
<v Speaker 1>In Ukraine, Poland and Russia, the Christmas dishes the grain

752
00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:02.239
<v Speaker 1>pudding called kutiya from ancient Greek pukia, or boiled grain.

753
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:06.880
<v Speaker 1>It's maked with wheatberries, poppy seeds, honey, nuts, and spices,

754
00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:11.639
<v Speaker 1>and I give the recipe. Grain symbolizes eternal life and rebirth.

755
00:54:11.960 --> 00:54:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Poppy seeds are for fertility, the honey is for pleasure.

756
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:20.079
<v Speaker 1>The dish is shared with the livestock and poultry as

757
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:22.880
<v Speaker 1>well as the humans of the family for luck. The

758
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:25.320
<v Speaker 1>stickier the dish, the better, because the head of the

759
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.880
<v Speaker 1>family takes a spoonful and tosses it up. The number

760
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 1>of grains of porridge that stick to the ceiling tells

761
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:34.880
<v Speaker 1>how many sheaves of grain will be collected that year.

762
00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:39.440
<v Speaker 1>But I mean every culture does it, you know, differently.

763
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:45.280
<v Speaker 1>But what I do every year, and I'm an American,

764
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:50.639
<v Speaker 1>but I was born in Austria. But what I do

765
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:57.360
<v Speaker 1>every year is I make acorn cake. That's my big

766
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.920
<v Speaker 1>thing and people love it, they absolutely love it. But

767
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:06.159
<v Speaker 1>I collect the acorns in the fall. I process them.

768
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:09.280
<v Speaker 1>It takes about two weeks. They have to be leeched

769
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:13.119
<v Speaker 1>and the water is changed every day, and then I

770
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:18.199
<v Speaker 1>grind up the acorns. I put them in the oven,

771
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:22.480
<v Speaker 1>dry the gruel, the ground up acorns, and then I

772
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:23.679
<v Speaker 1>make them into flour.

773
00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:28.519
<v Speaker 2>You cut them, you grind them down to powder.

774
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Right when I'm getting ready to make the cake. Then

775
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:37.079
<v Speaker 1>I grind it into powder. Before that, it's just a

776
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:43.599
<v Speaker 1>dry grule that I keep in the refrigerator. But the

777
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:47.880
<v Speaker 1>cake has lots of honey, which is very solar, you know,

778
00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:54.039
<v Speaker 1>and good good luck. Also it has lots of eggs,

779
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:58.519
<v Speaker 1>which are again yellow and fertility right.

780
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:01.880
<v Speaker 2>And I do that.

781
00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Every year and people absolutely love it. They just think

782
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.000
<v Speaker 1>it's the best thing ever. I think there's a recipe

783
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:08.559
<v Speaker 1>in here.

784
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:13.119
<v Speaker 2>For that acorn cake. Wow, I don't know. Can you

785
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:15.840
<v Speaker 2>buy acorn flour if you're not one two?

786
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes you can. Actually I've never bought it myself, but

787
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:26.519
<v Speaker 1>I understand that you can, apparently in Korean restaurants and

788
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:29.920
<v Speaker 1>then probably on Amazon.

789
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I would think, oh, Amazon has everything you're in.

790
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:39.280
<v Speaker 1>And you can also find acorn cake recipes online. Acorn cake,

791
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:46.679
<v Speaker 1>acorn cookies, acorn pancakes, you know. But that's the I

792
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:49.039
<v Speaker 1>always make acorn cake at Christmas.

793
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Sounds amazing. I expect to slice. At some point I

794
00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:59.719
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about the rights for the goddess, describing

795
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.599
<v Speaker 2>the goddess in what this is, Why this is important

796
00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:10.119
<v Speaker 2>because we've lost the understanding of God goddess, you know,

797
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:14.599
<v Speaker 2>because the Church doesn't recognize that anymore. But talk about

798
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:15.679
<v Speaker 2>the importance of that.

799
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:20.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to say that I have I think

800
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:23.639
<v Speaker 1>seventeen books in print right now, but this one, The

801
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas, is the third book

802
00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:30.679
<v Speaker 1>in a series. The first one was Sacred Herbs of Salon,

803
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:33.880
<v Speaker 1>which is Halloween, the second one is Sacred Herbs of Spring,

804
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:37.559
<v Speaker 1>and then Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. In each

805
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:43.679
<v Speaker 1>of those books, I have a ritual for a goddess. Okay,

806
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.079
<v Speaker 1>so in the Halloween book it's a ritual for the Morigon,

807
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:53.599
<v Speaker 1>who's a triple goddess Celtic Irish triple goddess. Sacred Herbs

808
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:57.159
<v Speaker 1>of Spring, there's a ritual for the goddess Flora, who's

809
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the Roman goddess of flowers. And then in Sacred Herbs

810
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:05.960
<v Speaker 1>of Yule and Christmas, I have a ritual for the Callach,

811
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:12.760
<v Speaker 1>who is the goddess of Winter in Scottish tradition, she's

812
00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:16.599
<v Speaker 1>the goddess of winter. In Irish tradition, she's the land goddess.

813
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.519
<v Speaker 1>So there are colliachs from different areas and they all

814
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:24.840
<v Speaker 1>have different properties. But for me, she's the goddess of winter.

815
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:28.760
<v Speaker 1>I do have Scottish ancestry. But the way you know

816
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:32.639
<v Speaker 1>that she has arrived is when the first snowfall comes.

817
00:58:33.320 --> 00:58:36.480
<v Speaker 1>And we've already had our first snowfall. But when that happens,

818
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:41.239
<v Speaker 1>that means she's here. And so I wanted to honor

819
00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:47.960
<v Speaker 1>her at yule Tide. And the only creation story that

820
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:53.119
<v Speaker 1>we have from Celtic tradition is about the Calliach, and

821
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:56.440
<v Speaker 1>the story is and she's the old woman or the

822
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:00.079
<v Speaker 1>old veiled one she's called, and the story is that

823
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:04.199
<v Speaker 1>she was walking through the water on the west coast

824
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:09.280
<v Speaker 1>of Scotland dropping stones from her apron, which is a

825
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:13.760
<v Speaker 1>polite way of saying dropping stones out of her vagina,

826
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:18.679
<v Speaker 1>and everywhere they fell an island formed. So she's literally

827
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.519
<v Speaker 1>creating the land as she walks. I mean, wow, big figure,

828
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:22.800
<v Speaker 1>you know.

829
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:26.280
<v Speaker 2>So she's a creator, She's a creator god exactly.

830
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:29.400
<v Speaker 1>And that's the only creation myth that we have.

831
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:36.199
<v Speaker 2>From Celtic tradition, and So how how do we honor

832
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:42.719
<v Speaker 2>her ah at the first snowfall?

833
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, you give thanks.

834
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:48.239
<v Speaker 2>That's so.

835
00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:53.480
<v Speaker 1>The most important word is in any culture is thank you.

836
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 1>But you can do a whole ritual. You could do

837
00:59:58.039 --> 01:00:01.760
<v Speaker 1>it at solstice, you could do it at Yule, you

838
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:07.639
<v Speaker 1>could do it when the first snow falls. So I

839
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:11.800
<v Speaker 1>have first you create the altar. Cover the altar with

840
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:16.719
<v Speaker 1>a faded tartan cloth or thick wool, because that evokes winter.

841
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Right.

842
01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Put objects that speak of the winter season, rocks, crystals,

843
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:30.079
<v Speaker 1>anything that reminds you of frost and snow, evergreen boughs,

844
01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:35.079
<v Speaker 1>magical herbs of winter, and so on. And then you

845
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:40.880
<v Speaker 1>welcome in the goddess. And then I have a I

846
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:44.199
<v Speaker 1>just get I say. Your opening might look something like this.

847
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:47.360
<v Speaker 1>We are here to honor the gods and pay homage

848
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to the great Goddess of Winter. A kayak, the veiled

849
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:54.599
<v Speaker 1>one who haunts the frozen ground and frost rimmed branches.

850
01:00:54.920 --> 01:00:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Her breath is the winter wind, her tears are the sleet,

851
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Her skin is the snowbound field, Great Hag of the

852
01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:07.039
<v Speaker 1>gusty white rivers and fields. We honor you and welcome you.

853
01:01:07.480 --> 01:01:11.079
<v Speaker 1>All nature pauses under your gaze, thank you for this

854
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:18.079
<v Speaker 1>time of rest and purification, and then you burn herbs. Now,

855
01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:22.800
<v Speaker 1>in Native American tradition you burn sage, for example, or

856
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:27.840
<v Speaker 1>cedar to purify an area. But in Northern Europe, the

857
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:29.440
<v Speaker 1>traditional herb was juniper.

858
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh I like that smell. Yeah, dried juniper.

859
01:01:33.280 --> 01:01:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. If you can get juniper, that's the European herb

860
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.639
<v Speaker 1>of choice. If you don't want to be breathing smoke,

861
01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:44.199
<v Speaker 1>if you have lung issues, you can get the oil

862
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:47.440
<v Speaker 1>juniper oil, and you could put it with water and

863
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:53.000
<v Speaker 1>spray it around the room instead of the smoke. Then

864
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:56.840
<v Speaker 1>you have some kind of a fire. So if you're outside,

865
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:58.880
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a bonfire. If you're inside, it's

866
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:06.239
<v Speaker 1>going to be candles, you know, in a cauldron for example. Okay,

867
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how much you want me to go

868
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:08.440
<v Speaker 1>through this, but.

869
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:11.079
<v Speaker 2>I want you to go through it somewhat thoroughly, because

870
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:15.119
<v Speaker 2>my next question would be what do we obtain by

871
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:19.239
<v Speaker 2>by acknowledging this winter goddess.

872
01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, just like with a solstice ritual where you start

873
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:26.760
<v Speaker 1>in the dark and then you light candles and you

874
01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:33.480
<v Speaker 1>bring back the light, you're honoring nature. Nature at this

875
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:39.800
<v Speaker 1>time it's cold, it's snowy, it's dark. She is the

876
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.800
<v Speaker 1>goddess of winter, you know, and she transforms into bridget

877
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:48.400
<v Speaker 1>or bride in the spring, So that's the spring face

878
01:02:48.440 --> 01:02:51.719
<v Speaker 1>of the goddess. Right now, we're honoring the winter face

879
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:52.480
<v Speaker 1>of the goddess.

880
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:57.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's life sustaining patronage.

881
01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The death is just an illusion. Nothing dies, you know.

882
01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:10.039
<v Speaker 1>It looks like nature is dead because all these bare branches,

883
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:13.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, but it's not dead, you know. And that's

884
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:17.000
<v Speaker 1>why we have partly why we have evergreens, that's a

885
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 1>whole other story. That's why you have evergreens on the altar.

886
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:25.920
<v Speaker 1>But there's a sacredness to this time, just like there's

887
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:29.480
<v Speaker 1>a sacredness in the spring, and sacredness in the summer,

888
01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and sacredness in the fall. Each season has its particular

889
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:39.719
<v Speaker 1>sacred aspect, you know. And it's also the old woman.

890
01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:42.599
<v Speaker 1>This is something our culture has forgotten, you know. In

891
01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:47.440
<v Speaker 1>ancient times, people who were old were valued because they

892
01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:50.840
<v Speaker 1>knew how to survive, and they had been through many winters,

893
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:53.159
<v Speaker 1>and they knew how to heal the sick, and they

894
01:03:53.239 --> 01:03:56.000
<v Speaker 1>knew how to take care of the animals and how

895
01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:58.320
<v Speaker 1>to take care of the people, and you know, so

896
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:02.360
<v Speaker 1>they were valued. So you're also honoring that. You're honoring

897
01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the gray hairs, you know, the old ones.

898
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Fascinating. As we conclude, Ellen, I want you to talk

899
01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:21.000
<v Speaker 2>briefly about the importance of altars and in our modern society,

900
01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:23.880
<v Speaker 2>with the internet, with our iPhones, with all this Wi

901
01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Fi bombarding us, why is this ancient practice important to have.

902
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I don't have a smartphone. I refuse to

903
01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:42.880
<v Speaker 1>have one. I do have a computer obviously, but I

904
01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:46.679
<v Speaker 1>always tell people turn off the phone, turn it off,

905
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:49.920
<v Speaker 1>you know. But like I said, each season has a

906
01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:54.960
<v Speaker 1>sacred aspect. So this season we're honoring what's happening. What's

907
01:04:54.960 --> 01:05:01.440
<v Speaker 1>happening the dark, crystal ice, snow, you know, anything that

908
01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:06.880
<v Speaker 1>makes you think of that, evergreens that goes on the altar,

909
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:12.199
<v Speaker 1>candles for light, for candle, magic, for purification, that all

910
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:14.920
<v Speaker 1>goes on the altar, everything that goes along, you know,

911
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:21.960
<v Speaker 1>holly berries, laurel as I mentioned, whatever you think of

912
01:05:22.039 --> 01:05:26.159
<v Speaker 1>that seasonal you could have little images of stags and

913
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:32.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, winter things. Okay, that's your altar, and that

914
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:35.519
<v Speaker 1>puts you in harmony with what's going on with nature.

915
01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:39.360
<v Speaker 2>H oh I hear you, okay, don't forget.

916
01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:42.599
<v Speaker 1>Nature, right. And then in the spring, the altar changes,

917
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:46.159
<v Speaker 1>the color of the candles changes. It might change to

918
01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:51.920
<v Speaker 1>something softer like like pink or something. You put fresh

919
01:05:51.960 --> 01:05:56.800
<v Speaker 1>flowers on the altar, things that remind you of spring, eggs,

920
01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:01.320
<v Speaker 1>little images of rabbits or whatever, you know. And the

921
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:05.880
<v Speaker 1>and the spring goddess Flora, the goddess of flowers, and

922
01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:10.159
<v Speaker 1>who's very misunderstood, as the ancients said, and I quote

923
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:13.719
<v Speaker 1>in my in my book The Sacred Herbs of Spring,

924
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:19.199
<v Speaker 1>they said, Flora is a very powerful goddess because if

925
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:22.239
<v Speaker 1>you don't have flowers, you're not going to have fruit,

926
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:26.199
<v Speaker 1>and you're not going to have wine. Right, You're not

927
01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:28.880
<v Speaker 1>to have any of these things. So big, you know,

928
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:31.119
<v Speaker 1>you have to give thanks for the flowers. So it's

929
01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:35.000
<v Speaker 1>a really big deal. So that's what you focus on

930
01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:38.280
<v Speaker 1>in spring. And then in summer. Summer is when you

931
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:41.599
<v Speaker 1>actually have the first harvest, which is the harvest of herbs,

932
01:06:42.519 --> 01:06:49.719
<v Speaker 1>so you might have herbs, dried herbs, fresh herbs, you know,

933
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:53.119
<v Speaker 1>a flowers also. And then in the fall, of course,

934
01:06:53.239 --> 01:06:55.480
<v Speaker 1>is when we that's the end of the harvest and

935
01:06:55.519 --> 01:06:59.760
<v Speaker 1>we start having the pumpkins the gourds, the grain, the apples,

936
01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:04.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, and it just shifts. But everything that goes

937
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:10.760
<v Speaker 1>on the altar, and you always have candles because candles energize,

938
01:07:11.199 --> 01:07:16.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, they bring it to life. But you're always

939
01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:19.400
<v Speaker 1>you're always putting yourself in harmony with nature, is what

940
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:19.920
<v Speaker 1>you're doing.

941
01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:24.800
<v Speaker 2>So you're tying your physical, mental, and spiritual self to

942
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:30.159
<v Speaker 2>nature by these divination items and also this altar, which

943
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:34.239
<v Speaker 2>is a representation of what you and what you're connecting to.

944
01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you're saying that you're a part of it.

945
01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:43.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, people I keep hearing about how people feel

946
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:46.840
<v Speaker 1>so lonely and they feel so cut off and isolated,

947
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:51.480
<v Speaker 1>and why why do they feel isolated when there's life

948
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:56.239
<v Speaker 1>is happening all around you. You know, there's animals, there's trees,

949
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:59.360
<v Speaker 1>there's plants, there's water, there's fire there.

950
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:01.280
<v Speaker 2>They forgot that if they're part of the earth, is

951
01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:02.719
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying.

952
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I mean when I'm in all I have

953
01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:08.239
<v Speaker 1>to do is look out the window. But I live

954
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:10.559
<v Speaker 1>in the country and I'm very grateful for that. But

955
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:13.840
<v Speaker 1>all I have to do is step out the door,

956
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'm at one with all of it, you know,

957
01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:20.640
<v Speaker 1>And I never feel lonely. You know, all through COVID

958
01:08:20.680 --> 01:08:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I was by myself here. I never felt lonely, never

959
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:27.840
<v Speaker 1>felt isolated. I went outside every day, made a point

960
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:32.720
<v Speaker 1>of doing that. The time when I feel cut off

961
01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:35.840
<v Speaker 1>is when I go into the city and I'm surrounded

962
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:40.640
<v Speaker 1>by people and cement buildings and asphalt. Then I feel cut.

963
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Off real briefly. For those who are just coming up

964
01:08:47.239 --> 01:08:49.439
<v Speaker 2>to speed with an altar, this can be a small

965
01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:54.159
<v Speaker 2>table placed in would you say, a room that you're

966
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:56.760
<v Speaker 2>active in, or a room that you're inactive in.

967
01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:59.279
<v Speaker 1>It could be anywhere. I have one in the bedroom

968
01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.560
<v Speaker 1>that I look at, you know, when I wake up,

969
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:03.600
<v Speaker 1>when I go to sleep, I have a goddess alter.

970
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:07.880
<v Speaker 1>I have another one in the living room. I have

971
01:09:07.960 --> 01:09:10.840
<v Speaker 1>one outside. Because you have to put food out for

972
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:11.479
<v Speaker 1>the fairies.

973
01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget, oh the fairies. Yea, yeah, on all the.

974
01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.039
<v Speaker 1>Holy days, make sure you put something out for them,

975
01:09:18.079 --> 01:09:21.000
<v Speaker 1>because if you don't, they really act up. They start

976
01:09:21.319 --> 01:09:23.359
<v Speaker 1>stealing things and messing around.

977
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:27.840
<v Speaker 2>So and it can also.

978
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:31.600
<v Speaker 1>Be directly on the ground. And if you look at

979
01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:37.239
<v Speaker 1>the Mexican tradition, for example, the friend does around Halloween

980
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:43.720
<v Speaker 1>theos the old friends can be outside It could be

981
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:46.239
<v Speaker 1>on the ground, could be on a table, or it

982
01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:48.880
<v Speaker 1>can be several layers. One layer on the ground, the

983
01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:50.159
<v Speaker 1>next layer on a table.

984
01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Did really Yeah? Okay? Yeah.

985
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.760
<v Speaker 1>They build altars outside or you can build altars inside,

986
01:09:57.800 --> 01:09:58.439
<v Speaker 1>whatever you want.

987
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:02.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay. But the point you're making in this part of

988
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:06.319
<v Speaker 2>the book on alters is the fact that this is

989
01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:11.239
<v Speaker 2>your acknowledgment that you are part of nature, that you're

990
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:16.880
<v Speaker 2>part of earth, and that you are wishing to connect

991
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:23.479
<v Speaker 2>by these divination and these intentional tools that you're using

992
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:25.920
<v Speaker 2>at your altar.

993
01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Now you're just you're putting yourself in harmony. You're not

994
01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:35.760
<v Speaker 1>going against life or against the the planet or against nature.

995
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:39.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, you're not pitting yourself. You know, it's the

996
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Victorians who told us that nature was what is it

997
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:46.680
<v Speaker 1>read in Tooth and Claw or whatever. It's not like that.

998
01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Even guerrillas are sweet creatures there. You know nature. We

999
01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:56.479
<v Speaker 1>are a part of nature. We need to get back

1000
01:10:56.520 --> 01:10:56.720
<v Speaker 1>to that.

1001
01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:03.720
<v Speaker 2>The books called The Sacred Orth of Yule and Christmas Remedies, Recipes,

1002
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Magic and Bruise for the winter season. My guest today

1003
01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:11.680
<v Speaker 2>has been Ellen Hopman, and this is a fabulous book.

1004
01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:16.000
<v Speaker 2>It came out last year late last year actually, and uh,

1005
01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:20.239
<v Speaker 2>it is one that you need to have on your bookshelf. Uh.

1006
01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:24.079
<v Speaker 2>And she has put her heart and soul into this book.

1007
01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I had to tell you. The recipes alone are are fabulous. Ellen.

1008
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Tell people how they can get ahold of you through

1009
01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:33.479
<v Speaker 2>your website.

1010
01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:36.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you if you want to communicate with me,

1011
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the best way is to go to Ellenevertt Hoptman dot com.

1012
01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:42.960
<v Speaker 1>That's e L L E N E V E R

1013
01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:47.239
<v Speaker 1>T h O P M A N dot com. I

1014
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:50.239
<v Speaker 1>also have an author page on Amazon. So if you

1015
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:53.880
<v Speaker 1>put in Ellen Evertt Hopman author, or if you just

1016
01:11:53.960 --> 01:11:58.199
<v Speaker 1>google Ellen Hotman or google Ellen Evertt Hopman, all these

1017
01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:02.000
<v Speaker 1>things should come up. But Ellen Everett Hopman dot com

1018
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:06.880
<v Speaker 1>you'll see all my books, and you'll see talks that

1019
01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:11.119
<v Speaker 1>I've given events coming up, and you can ask me

1020
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:12.920
<v Speaker 1>a question if you want.

1021
01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:17.359
<v Speaker 2>To do you do a video? Are you on YouTube

1022
01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:21.079
<v Speaker 2>presenting how to cook or how to do divination? Anything

1023
01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:21.479
<v Speaker 2>like that?

1024
01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, I have just been convinced that I need a

1025
01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.319
<v Speaker 1>YouTube channel. I've never had one, so I'm going to

1026
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>be uploading a lot of my talks. But that's going

1027
01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:34.880
<v Speaker 1>to be in the new year.

1028
01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:38.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm on the same. I need to get my video

1029
01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:44.000
<v Speaker 2>up and running a little more thoroughly. Ellen, Happy holiday,

1030
01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Merry Christmas, and thank you for your time. This is

1031
01:12:48.439 --> 01:12:51.199
<v Speaker 2>been fun and there's so much more we could talk about.

1032
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.199
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, every chapter is could be a podcast.

1033
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:56.079
<v Speaker 2>So thank you for your time.

1034
01:12:56.520 --> 01:13:03.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you, and Merry Christmas, Marl and Solstice and everything.

1035
01:13:03.399 --> 01:13:06.840
<v Speaker 2>At the mule all right, thank you and we'll get

1036
01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:18.479
<v Speaker 2>you back again. Thanks. I was feeling depressed regarding the

1037
01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:22.359
<v Speaker 2>yule log because there's so much energy around that. But

1038
01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of us don't have fireplaces. I don't, and

1039
01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:30.560
<v Speaker 2>so the log the mule light is a great idea.

1040
01:13:31.359 --> 01:13:33.239
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'm gonna go out and get a

1041
01:13:33.439 --> 01:13:37.520
<v Speaker 2>candle that will burn for a day. That's my divination

1042
01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:40.600
<v Speaker 2>that I'll that I'll do. And that's easy for you too,

1043
01:13:40.600 --> 01:13:45.960
<v Speaker 2>if you don't have a fireplace or a place to

1044
01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>get a yule log, perhaps your fireplaces for decoration. Only

1045
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:54.359
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people do that. So that was that

1046
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:58.479
<v Speaker 2>was you know, important to hear all about our ancestors

1047
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:03.359
<v Speaker 2>and how connected they are to the earth. You know,

1048
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>we've talked to people who are experts on nature, spirits

1049
01:14:08.960 --> 01:14:15.479
<v Speaker 2>and fairies and the elementals and how important they are.

1050
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.359
<v Speaker 2>We didn't get into a whole chapter she had on those,

1051
01:14:19.399 --> 01:14:22.199
<v Speaker 2>you know. I mean, her book The Sacred Herbs of

1052
01:14:22.279 --> 01:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>Yule and Christmas is just so packed with material and

1053
01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:29.520
<v Speaker 2>it's really it's really just a really really good reference

1054
01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>for Christmas. So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed that. By

1055
01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:38.880
<v Speaker 2>the way, if you are wondering what to do next

1056
01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:42.439
<v Speaker 2>year in spring, you want to go away for a vacation,

1057
01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:47.960
<v Speaker 2>we have one spot left on our Rapnui tour. It's

1058
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:52.720
<v Speaker 2>March fifty to the twenty third. We all meet in Santiago, Chili,

1059
01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:57.159
<v Speaker 2>and we have a meal together, kind of go over inventory.

1060
01:14:57.760 --> 01:15:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Then the next morning, on the the fifteenth, we fly.

1061
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I think it takes about four hours to get to Raphanui,

1062
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:08.119
<v Speaker 2>which is otherwise known as Easter Island, for a guided

1063
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:13.119
<v Speaker 2>tour with doctor Edward Barnhardt. This is a very rare opportunity.

1064
01:15:13.159 --> 01:15:15.359
<v Speaker 2>He has gotten so popular we'll probably won't be able

1065
01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:18.479
<v Speaker 2>to work with him anymore because he's gonna be working

1066
01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:21.640
<v Speaker 2>with others. But if you are a fan of as

1067
01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>like i am, he has surveyed the island and he

1068
01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:29.680
<v Speaker 2>will take us to parts of the of the terrain

1069
01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:33.039
<v Speaker 2>that no people most people don't get a chance to see.

1070
01:15:33.279 --> 01:15:37.359
<v Speaker 2>This includes the quarries where these Moi sculptures are cut

1071
01:15:37.399 --> 01:15:41.439
<v Speaker 2>out of. It includes a number of areas where there's

1072
01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:46.039
<v Speaker 2>grave sites as well as some unusual sculpture. So for

1073
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:51.239
<v Speaker 2>more information go to Earthancients dot com, forward slash tours.

1074
01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>All the details are there. If you have any questions whatsoever,

1075
01:15:55.840 --> 01:15:58.439
<v Speaker 2>send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the

1076
01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:02.479
<v Speaker 2>number four of the letter you at Gmail, and I

1077
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>promise they'll get right back to you. This is not

1078
01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to be missed. It's a rare opportunity. I've gotten a

1079
01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:09.479
<v Speaker 2>number of people will say, hey, Cliff, I can't go

1080
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:13.159
<v Speaker 2>this year. We're not going to go back. I think

1081
01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:16.720
<v Speaker 2>this is the one and only chance we'll go to Rappahannui.

1082
01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:20.359
<v Speaker 2>There's always an opportunity to go with somebody else, but

1083
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:24.600
<v Speaker 2>you want somebody who has an idea of the history

1084
01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:31.960
<v Speaker 2>of the of the sacredness of this place. So anyhow,

1085
01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:37.680
<v Speaker 2>more information Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash tours. All right,

1086
01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:39.319
<v Speaker 2>that's it for this program. I want to think my

1087
01:16:39.359 --> 01:16:44.279
<v Speaker 2>guest today, Ellen Hopman, coming to us from Massachusetts. As always,

1088
01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:48.760
<v Speaker 2>the team of Gail Tour Mark Foster and everyone who

1089
01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:54.119
<v Speaker 2>makes this thing happen. Merry Christmas, all right, take care

1090
01:16:54.159 --> 01:16:56.279
<v Speaker 2>of be well, and we will talk to you next time.

1091
01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Most school talk se mob.

1092
01:17:34.399 --> 01:17:37.479
<v Speaker 4>Who not to.

1093
01:17:38.520 --> 01:18:01.560
<v Speaker 3>Sosicut, who says called it in Bota

1094
01:18:03.319 --> 01:18:04.279
<v Speaker 1>Mot