Speaker 1: The name of the podcast network is Aero dot net
a r r oe dot net. Twenty different podcasts to
choose from, one of them being missed opportunity. You know,
of all of the people that I've shared conversations with,
what you've never experienced are my missed opportunities. So I've
gone back and I've re asked the questions, and believe
it or not, those that missed their chance to share
a conversation with me are replying missed opportunity from Aero
dot net a r r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hello,
and good morning you too. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Okay, great to be with you.
Speaker 1: For you two to collaborate and bring this story forward,
My God, to me, this is the kind of stuff
that I would like to see in some sort of
journalism class or a writing class, creative writing, because to
bring two thoughts of experience together to create this, to
me is this is where we are right now in
making stories and novels.
Speaker 3: Right Well, I think the best work often comes from collaboration.
Speaker 2: I think we could all learn as a society from that.
Speaker 3: But I think it's you know, as a journalist, I
obviously was very much stuck in my ways of like
thinking for what, where and when of a story, and
I think collaborating with Robin really kind of taught me
to break away from that thought process and bring in
the fiction of it all. You know, there was this
moment where Robin was like, you know, you realize you
can make this up.
Speaker 2: If you want.
Speaker 3: And so there were moments where I'd put aside the
notes and the journals that I had kept over the
years and just sort of like lean into that creative
side too.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. There have been many times that I
have as a writer. I'll go, remember, you haven't told
anybody that this is a true story. It might be
based on a true story, but this gives you legal
liberty to do whatever you need to do to make
this story a little bit different and exciting exactly.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, we're so familiar with the
current day British royal family, and so we wanted to
create this kind of alternate royal youth universe where the
Windsors have never existed and it's a completely different set
of royals. But I still wanted to like throw the
same challenges, the same crises, and when you read the book,
although there are a fictional sets of characters, their experiences,
the way in which the palace runs, the descriptions of
the rooms at the palace, that is all very much
based on the real life. So you are kind of
getting this peak behind the curtain and learning how the
cookies made.
Speaker 1: Did he ever have to be told to put away
the journalism tools and get back to storytelling? Come on,
tell me some dirt on this, dude, Come on, come on,
come on on.
Speaker 4: You know you have come to the wrong person. I
actually only have lovely things to say about Omen. I mean,
what I loved about working with him is, you know,
I've written many books on my own, this is my
first book. I've everybody, and just being able to talk
to someone else about the imaginary people that we shared
in our brains were so nice and we were able
to go back and forth and build a palm what
the other person had, you know, thought of, and if
he had an idea, then.
Speaker 5: I'd be like, yes, and then let's do this, and
let's do that.
Speaker 4: And so I feel like he definitely had a journalistic
brain in the very beginning. He is incredibly detail oriented.
I think he caught every single typo in the entire
book on his own, but at the same time, he
knows how to tell a story as do I, and
I think that's where we really met, and that's where
the story, the genesis of the story came from.
Speaker 1: See I don't mind typos, and the reason why because
it takes me all the way back to Mark Twain
who said, if you don't use your own writing accent,
then you are not being true to yourself. So when
I see something like that, or I hear a story,
I'm going go back to being true make the mistake,
because we do and every day.
Speaker 2: Speak exactly you know.
Speaker 3: I think what was so fun about this was that,
you know, Robin's American, I'm British, and so coming together
to tell the story of a culture clash. You know.
Speaker 2: The center of our.
Speaker 3: Book is Lauren Morgan, who worked at the White House
Press Office, who is head hunted and drafted into the
Bucking and Panes Press office to kind of take over
things there and rid the family of the Royal family
of their streak of bad headlines. And so working with
someone that sees things differently to myself, we were able
to really bring that to our characters, bring in the
different viewpoints so any moment where we did clash or
sort of disagree on something actually translated really well on
the page, because that's exactly what these characters are also dealing.
Speaker 1: So now, Robin, let me ask you, cause he's the
one that brought it up saying that he's British and
you're American. Okay, Now I have difficulties sometimes understanding the
British humor. What about you? And did you have to
sit him down and go ahha, we're gonna work on
this together.
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: No, No, I actually love the British sense of humor.
I love a good sarcastic joke. So we never had
any sort of translation issues in regard to the British humor.
We definitely you know, one of the things our character
experiences is very much this fish out of water experience
of going from the White House to Buckingham Palace, going
to this esteem tradition where they do not look upon
change with any sort of warmth at all. And you know,
having an American and brit work together, I experienced a
lot of what Lauren was going through. Olyb would say
she should bring in donuts on her first day, but
no one's gonna like the donuts that I would say,
who would it like donuts that like seems lovely? Who
would want to enjoy that? So I feel like that's
really where our culture's clash was on the page.
Speaker 3: The Brits are suspicious of anything, and I saw that
in the Palace.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I remember when Harry first started dating Meghan and he
introduced it to all the staff there, and I remember
a couple of the staff members saying to me, oh,
she seems nice, but she hugs a lot, like as
if it was like a crime. And of course, like
Megan went in there thinking like she's going to be warm,
I'm a hugger, and that just didn't work in that space.
And so you can really go in with good intentions,
but it isn't always going to go the way in
which you planned.
Speaker 1: Please tell me that when you turn this into moving pictures,
that that it's going to be more than just a movie.
It's got to be like Emily in Paris, because I mean,
it's got to be like five seasons, twelve episodes per season.
And then with that opportunity for us to say, I
know there's a sixteel in them, come on, give us
another season, because that's what this story has. It's got
that vibration about it to where I don't want the
story to end.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm so glad you think that way we have.
We are in the process of developing the TV adaptation
of this and building out that exact universe that you
speak about. I think Emily in Paris is a great comparison,
but I also think we really want to lean into
that kind of like West Wing feel of it all.
Speaker 2: You can you really pull back the curtain.
Speaker 3: Behind kind of a historic institution and get to see
how it works, the people that are never talked about
in the news coverage but are actually making the headlines happen.
Speaker 1: I would love to see in real life what an
American going to Buckingham Pallace to work there would be like,
because my first mother in law would be the one
that would bring in all of her dishes from the
royal family that she got in the National Inquirer. Look
what I've got. I should be working here. This should
be proof that I should be working here.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing she has a thimble collection. I remember.
Speaker 1: Because I mean that in itself, that is that is
a connection. Because I got to be honest with you.
I I have dreamed what would it be like if
I were there? It would I would I be somebody out?
Would I be wearing the uniform? Would I be inside
just mopping the floors? I don't care. I work there,
And that's what I what I feel in this is
that it's it's one of those moments where we're all
invited beyond the doors.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: So many films and TV shows about the Royals have
always focused on the front side of the royal family,
the royal family members themselves, also the front of the palace,
the state rooms, the grand spaces, but actually, just like
a five star hotel, despite the fancy front, the back
end of it is going to be pretty ugly. It's
going to be a working space, and it's going to
be something that you never as a guest get to see.
And so that's the same in Royal Spin when you're
reading about those kind of like back entrances to the
palace and the kind of crusty comes office with its
peeling paint on the walls and dripping pipes in the ceiling,
that's very much based on reality. You know.
Speaker 2: It is a kind of shoestring budget operation. Holding this
very grand institution together.
Speaker 1: Now, now, Robin, I got to get up close and
personal on this one in the way that because it
does have places where I can laugh, it does have
places where I'm heavily entertained. Do you run this by
the King, mister Charles himself and go, you know what
I hear's the story? And then do are you modern
day gestures? In other words, you are entertaining the King.
Speaker 5: I don't know that it goes that far per se.
Speaker 4: We did not actually run anything past King Charles, as
you can probably imagine. You know, we just wanted to
put a book together that was really fun, that would
be something that would kind of maybe take people out
of their current, you know, current event experiences where they
could recharge and enjoy it. I always say that if
I hadn't written this book, I would absolutely take it
on a plane with me to read on a plane.
That's where a lot of the humor comes from. There's
a lot of love in the book as well. There's
not just romance. There's the idea of loving your friends,
of your relationships with your family, and you know, even
your coworkers and those relationships as well. And so we
just wanted to take a very, very big institution and
sort of peel back the curtains a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you brought that up about reading
it on an airplane, because I will go into one
of those bookstores and go, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope,
because there's a vibe about an airplane read and this
You're absolutely right, this one has that vibe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are certain movies that you would never watch
on a plane.
Speaker 3: You want that kind of like fun ninety to one
hundred minute entertainment that is going to make you feel good.
Speaker 2: You're going to get.
Speaker 3: Some laughs, some emotions, and I think the book really
captures that. You know, although it's not a romance novel,
we do have a love triangle at the center of it,
and I think, how can you go wrong with that?
You know, We've got a press officer from the US
who is torn between a.
Speaker 2: Royal correspondent and a member of the royal family.
Speaker 3: And I think that in itself is sort of like
something that a lot of people have probably fantasized being
in the middle of at some point maybe I.
Speaker 5: Haven't actually experienced.
Speaker 1: Though, Please do not move there's more with Ohmed and
Robin coming up next. The name of the book Royal Spin.
We are back with the authors oh mids, Goobie and
Robin Binway Now, in reality, couldn't Lauren be a guy
or a girl? And that them would make that open
the door for guys to read this as well. If
they just see themselves in Lauren, they'll sit there and go.
I guess I have been thinking about this my entire
life because the Royal family has been in front of
us the entire way.
Speaker 4: Yes, I firmly believe that books have no gender. I
think anybody can read the book that they would like
to read.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what was the best part of writing? Because
I mean, if you're collaborating and your sharing ideas, you
had to have had a Beatles moment where you go,
you know, John, that's not really what I was looking.
Speaker 5: For that you would compare our experience to the Beadles.
First of all, it wasn't quite like that.
Speaker 2: However, you know.
Speaker 3: The author John Patterson says that collaboration is kind of
like the way in which the world could move around beautifully.
And I think that Robin and I coming together bringing
the kind of bests of our crafts has created a
book that I don't think could have happened when written
by one person. It needed to be grounded in the
real experiences that I brought to the forefront, but also
needed a master of you know, Robin, who brings the
characters to life in a way that I think very
few authors that I've read in recent years. Do you know,
it's not just the main characters in this book that
jump out, it's those on the peripheral. And as you say, yes,
we do have a female protagonist, but this is very
much like a workplace comedy drama. You know. It is
the people in that space, the other characters, the friendships
happening there, the politics between all of them.
Speaker 2: That's what makes this really special.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean there are times where I sit
there and because as a radio guy, I know what
we do when we have teams together, who's going to
be the one that's going to speak underneath their breath?
And I feel like that there's a lot that goes
on inside this story where it's somebody who's holding their composure,
but underneath their breath they're they're thinking things. And it's like,
that's what I love about this book. It's got that
realm of reality to it that it is like, oh,
you just said that underneath your breath.
Speaker 2: I know you did to me.
Speaker 4: That is my favorite kind of fiction to read. Definitely fiction,
definitely a parallel universe, but so rooted in reality. I
read a quote recently that said, the more personal the story,
the more relatable it is, and I think that's very true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But to get it relatable though, I mean, you're
pulling from OHMD, who's actually been inside and and I'm
sure O Mid, you've had to be the prim the proper.
You've got to be dressed well, you've got to address well,
and now you've got to share it with Robin here.
It's like, oh, you become the coach, Ohmid.
Speaker 2: I've also been the one that gets it wrong, oh wrong.
Speaker 3: When I joined the Royal Beat and it was like
twenty eleven, I was a younger journalist with a different
journalistic background to the others in the press pack, and
I did things differently. I had a different outlook, I
dressed differently to the others, and so I remember that
feeling of being an outsider and wanting to try and
stick to who I was throughout it. Despite the pressures
to conform throughout and as a journalist, you obviously want
to tell the best story, not the story that Palace
want you to tell, or that the other journalists are doing,
and so standing out going ain against the grain is
always really difficult, and we see Lauren kind of experience
that throughout the book, moments where she feels pressure to
conform to the way things are done, but also to
stick true to what she believes best and what will
make her not only stand out as the comms officer
at Buckingham Palace, but will also do good for the
royal family in the future.
Speaker 1: Are you thinking about follow up stories to turn this
into a series, because I mean, I could see this
go the next time around you flip flop, but you
come to the stage, or you go to Canada. Because
it would be interesting to see a story like this
inside the local government of Victoria, British Columbia, and just
so that you can see the different angles in the
comparisons of all these characters.
Speaker 4: We definitely would love we have characters in this book
that we would love to explore further and further story.
We were at lunch recently together and you know, I
just said to Ahmed, you know, it would be great
if this happens, and so we're always thinking forward. We
definitely want to keep it rooted in Buckingham Palace just
because the stories are never ending there and you know,
fodder for future books as well. But yeah, we I
think at the end of the day, we truly love
the story and we love these characters and we just
want to see what happens to them next.
Speaker 1: So that is it like keeping a journal, then, omad,
because I mean, because there are experiences in here that
I that I just have this feeling that you went through,
but you had to put it into what I call
hidden speak. You had to write it in a creative
way that didn't identify that you actually lived it, but
you did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I wouldn't say that this necessarily secrets. I'm
always really open about kind of the way things have worked,
and that's some of my own experiences. But it was
really fun to apply those to the characters in this book.
It wasn't any specific person. I think what felt right
in each scene was just to kind of bring what
I felt was would actually happen. And having been through
you know, listen, I've been in with the royals. I've
been on the outside the royals. I've been favored by
the Press Office, I've been loathed by the Press Office.
And so I have seen all sides of it. And
so that really helped in terms of like the spectrum
of experiences that are in the book.
Speaker 1: All right, now, how did you handle this then, Robin,
in the way of that, the book clearly states duty, loyalty, success,
and happiness. Happiness is number four. You're from America, Robin, happen.
It should be up there like in the top two.
Speaker 2: You know it is.
Speaker 4: That is definitely one of the culture clashes that Omad
and I had was, you know, not that we clash,
but just this idea of a brit Or, especially somebody
who's working for the palace. It is duty above all else.
I think we've seen that in other forms of media,
like the c for example. But that is where the
initial tension is with our heroine is she is from America.
She is very ambitious, she is aggressive. She you know,
we are taught the you know, life, liberty in the
pursuit of happiness, at least here in America.
Speaker 5: And so I feel like having that.
Speaker 4: List of things be inverted for Lauren is something that
she really has to understand and start to figure out
from a new perspective.
Speaker 1: God, I would love to see your guys as emails
and everything else that's attached to social media, because I
know how many people are going to think of themselves
as being in this book, And because you present it
that way, you open the door for us to say, yeah,
I could do this, I could do it. That's me.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the fun of it. You know.
Speaker 3: When I covered the Royals, I was always thinking like,
what if what if they think differently? Like what if
they didn't say no comment? What if they actually admitted it?
Or what if they actually put out a statement that
addressed whatever claims or concerns were being called upon by
the public or the press. And so it was fun
to be able to throw that in this book and
see the other side of it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: One of our fun characters in the book is Joy.
The Diversities Are Though, which is a title that the
Palace came up with, but it was something that they
had teased around the time of the Harry and Meghan
race scandals, and they said, oh, we're going to hire
a Diversities Are and we're going to, you know, bring
the palace into the modern age, and then it never happened.
Speaker 2: So in the book, I'm like, okay, well, let's hire one.
Let's see what that might do.
Speaker 3: Will it make any change? And even today with the
stuff going on with Andrew, you know, as a result
of years of sweeping things under the rug and saying
no comment to press or turning a blind eye to
things we've seen in the most recent revelations like how
bad things actually were, and also how much people knew
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: And so of course that creates.
Speaker 3: Distrust from the public who think, okay, well you never
were open about this in the first place, you never
did anything about it, even behind closed doors. And so
again I think with Lauren, she really brings a lot
of stuff from the dark out into the light that's
really uncomfortable for this old, staid institution that would like
to never complain, never explain.
Speaker 1: Now, you know, the next time that you and I
share a conversation about your books, oh mate, I'm going
to sit here and say, now, did you build this
story or is this actual? I mean, because I need
to know, because I read the novel. I got to
figure out if you're spot on here. So now you've
retrained my thinking, sir.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, anything you ever want to know about the book,
I'm always happy to go on, sir.
Speaker 2: But I think it's fun.
Speaker 3: You know when people read this, of course, like people
are going to try and figure out like what is
real what isn't. But I will say that, like when
you are reading the descriptions of these spaces in the
Palace that no one has ever really written about before,
it is from experience.
Speaker 2: These are places that I've spent time in.
Speaker 3: I think we've got a great scene in the palace
staff cafeteria, and I remember the first time seeing that
that someone describing to me the cliques at every table
just like American high school. You know, you had the
popular ones on one table. You had the gossipy garden
party organizer ladies. You had the Queen's bagpiper in the
corner sulking because he never likes to sit next to anyone.
You had the royal historians like that wore capes and
had like twiry mustaches, and it was like straight out
of Central Casting. And these are the fun things that
I think no one ever gets to see about the Palace.
And so we really had a great time putting it
in the book. Wow.
Speaker 4: As you can imagine, that cafeteria scene lit my fiction
brain on fire.
Speaker 5: I could not wait to write that scene.
Speaker 1: Oh there's gonna be more coming from you.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the future.
The door is always going to be open for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you Sarah much.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today you too?
Speaker 2: Thanks enjoyed great Thank you, thanks having us