Speaker 1: This is Pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great
Speaker 1: Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.
Speaker 1: It's a Great Love Debate. Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie.
Speaker 1: Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one
Speaker 1: Dating in a Relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm here
Speaker 1: in the fine studios of Pod Popular in Boca Raton, Florida.
Speaker 1: It's very very nice here, and over the last I
Speaker 1: don't know years, so we've done quite a few shows
Speaker 1: about the end of relationships. And we're not doing that
Speaker 1: to try and put a down around things. We are
Speaker 1: in the love business here. We're selling hope around here.
Speaker 1: But sometimes the best way to get into a good
Speaker 1: relationship is to get out of a bad relationship. And
Speaker 1: we've had authors on here, and we have had broken
Speaker 1: hearted people on here, and we've had therapists on here.
Speaker 1: And I've got somebody I've tried to get in here
Speaker 1: for a couple of months now. I finally got her
Speaker 1: busy schedule to sync with mine. She's the host of
Speaker 1: Your Amazing Divorce podcast. She's been a marriage, family lawyer,
Speaker 1: life coach, helping out the ladies maybe even the men.
Speaker 1: For many, many years, and she's going to answer a
Speaker 1: lot of my questions, which I know are a lot
Speaker 1: of your questions, because you guys have been emailing me
Speaker 1: this about for a long time during yaffa. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm great?
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1: Are there too many divorces or not enough?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I guess
Speaker 2: it's just about right.
Speaker 1: It's right about Maybe it's not the right ones.
Speaker 2: You know, things just kind of happen in relationships. People
Speaker 2: just grow apart.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think so. We talked about this on
Speaker 1: a prior podcast where you know the old stat that
Speaker 1: half of marriages and in divorce, But there's a big
Speaker 1: chunk that stay together unhappily. And there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: reasons for that, kids, money or whatever. But a lot
Speaker 1: of people stay into it because they just don't either
Speaker 1: know how or they're afraid of the process.
Speaker 2: Of divorce, absolutely one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And what are they afraid of? Are they afraid the
Speaker 1: legal paperwork? They're afraid that it's going to be a mistake.
Speaker 1: Are they afraid that they don't know where to turn?
Speaker 1: The cost? Why? Why do all of it?
Speaker 2: I think that people generally when they're in an unhappy relationship,
Speaker 2: on a happy marriage, they they're afraid of the unknown,
Speaker 2: you know. The people tend to stay in relationships because
Speaker 2: they know what they're getting, even though it's bad.
Speaker 1: The devil, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And so you know, just as the humans
Speaker 2: that we are, we're just most of us are not
Speaker 2: looking for change. We might want change, but getting there
Speaker 2: is difficult, and especially when you're in a bad relationship.
Speaker 2: So it's a cost, it's the kids, it's you know,
Speaker 2: what am I going to do? I'm going to lose
Speaker 2: half of everything. So and the fear of the legal
Speaker 2: process itself is always, you know, something that's of great concern.
Speaker 1: How often you run across I get that the two
Speaker 1: biggest issues traditionally in divorce are money and custody. Sure,
Speaker 1: how often is it that one just doesn't want to
Speaker 1: get divorced? The emotion? How much of it is just
Speaker 1: they're not on the same page?
Speaker 2: I think most of the time, you know. You know,
Speaker 2: I've been practicing now in Florida for twenty eight years,
Speaker 2: and I've seen a great evolution in the law and
Speaker 2: because of the legal standard that as lawyers were basically
Speaker 2: governed by it's pretty simple, it's not complicated. You know,
Speaker 2: there's an equitable distribution, there's asset division, presumption of fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty not so challenging to figure out.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Maybe they have issues as to the value of a
Speaker 2: business or the value of a real state or something,
Speaker 2: but easy. You have custody issues, which nowadays most of
Speaker 2: the parents work out. It's primarily they just don't want
Speaker 2: to get divorced. Basically, maybe one party doesn't or again
Speaker 2: they're in the process, but they're just fearful, and so
Speaker 2: everyone's in this emotional state that they're just kind of
Speaker 2: stuck in. I think as lawyers it's our responsibility to
Speaker 2: help nudge them in that direction and let them know
Speaker 2: it's going to be okay, we're going to get through this.
Speaker 2: You're going to get to the better side of your life,
Speaker 2: and you will.
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of it, understanding when they
Speaker 1: get through this storm that there's new opportunities in bright
Speaker 1: sunny skies or whatever. But in the heat of the
Speaker 1: emotion and whatever the reasons are for people getting divorced,
Speaker 1: it's never a good thing that something has to end
Speaker 1: that you at some point had high hopes.
Speaker 2: For absolutely, you know, but they do get there. And
Speaker 2: I have to tell you, in my twenty eight years
Speaker 2: of doing this, I can maybe name on one hand
Speaker 2: how many people went through the divorce process and ended
Speaker 2: up being in a worse position. Very few, if I
Speaker 2: was to statistically look at it, I am sure most
Speaker 2: got to a better place.
Speaker 1: And most, like I wish they did this years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know it just because your family is
Speaker 2: ending in the traditional sense, it's still a family if
Speaker 2: you have children together, right, and so you know, many
Speaker 2: people see it as a failure. I tend to see
Speaker 2: it or help people to see it's the beginning of
Speaker 2: some different relationship that you're going to have with your
Speaker 2: ex and that can be a beautiful thing. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a prime example of that.
Speaker 1: We were in the state of Florida as we record this,
Speaker 1: and you practice in Florida. Florida is easier than some
Speaker 1: other states. Some other states is like a long cooling off,
Speaker 1: like I think Maryland is like that, where like you
Speaker 1: can't do anything for a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure, but I know that we are
Speaker 2: one of the easier states, and there are requirements like
Speaker 2: here you have to be a resident for six months
Speaker 2: before you can get divorced. But there's no like if
Speaker 2: after you fulfill the residency requirement, you can get divorced.
Speaker 2: One party can want the divorce, the other doesn't need
Speaker 2: to want it. It's still going to happen, and there's
Speaker 2: no cooling off period. There's steps to get through it,
Speaker 2: but it's not like you have to wait and consider
Speaker 2: things and take you know, an abatement. No, it's not
Speaker 2: like that now.
Speaker 1: I asked a big network TV exec one time, I go,
Speaker 1: how come there's not shows about divorce lawyers? And he said,
Speaker 1: I go, there's a lot of legal shows, but very
Speaker 1: rarely as one devoted to it, to a divorce law,
Speaker 1: family law practice. And he goes, it hits too close
Speaker 1: to home and people don't want to watch it. But
Speaker 1: you've dove it into this, you're passionate about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you spin it on your podcast in real life
Speaker 1: as I am doing something that's going to help people's lives,
Speaker 1: How did you get interested in this aspect of law.
Speaker 2: I came from a divorce family, so my parents divorce
Speaker 2: when I was five, my sister was three, and my
Speaker 2: dad didn't want anything to do with us. After that.
Speaker 2: A lot of it had to do with the fact
Speaker 2: that we were living in Massachusetts. My mother purposely relocated
Speaker 2: to Florida, so you know, distance wise, and he married
Speaker 2: the woman he was having an affair with, So I
Speaker 2: guess that kind of put you know, put it into
Speaker 2: some perspective that you know, he chose them and his
Speaker 2: new step daughter over me and my sister. So I
Speaker 2: got into it because I saw my mom and I
Speaker 2: saw what she went through, and she had a really
Speaker 2: tough time. I remember, as a child and a young,
Speaker 2: you know person, just seeing her really not recover from
Speaker 2: the divorce in a very healthy way and go into
Speaker 2: a lot of depression now and back. You know, when
Speaker 2: I became older, I realized what it was. I thought
Speaker 2: there's got to be a better way, you know, And
Speaker 2: I was affected by that by not seeing my father.
Speaker 2: So between that and it's really an very interesting practice.
Speaker 2: It's not just about divorce. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of complicated business issues and valuation can be very sophisticated.
Speaker 1: Right, So.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: Not every when somebody comes to you, everybody, the first
Speaker 1: meeting that somebody usually has from you, they use the phrase,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it and how do you engage how
Speaker 1: far along the line they are in there process.
Speaker 2: I can usually gauge that pretty quickly. So if I
Speaker 2: was statistically to look at, I think that women when
Speaker 2: they come to see me are pretty much ready to
Speaker 2: get divorced. Generally. Generally, they're getting information, they've kind of
Speaker 2: made up their mind. Men are kind of feeling it
Speaker 2: out more. What am I going to lose? How much
Speaker 2: am I going to pay? What is it going to
Speaker 2: cost me?
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's so sad, and uh BIG's the check?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're concerned about that, you know, rightfully, So
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: You talked about the fifty to fifty earlier. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: states differ. It's fifty to fifty of what you made
Speaker 1: while you were married. So if you're a wealthy guy
Speaker 1: and you got married and your wealth sort of stayed
Speaker 1: the same, she doesn't get half of that, right or
Speaker 1: does that depend on the state.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, if you're a wealthy person, not
Speaker 2: just male, but female, you should have a prenup side note,
Speaker 2: but but yeah, So basically, you look at the date
Speaker 2: of the valuation, let's say, the marital estate before you
Speaker 2: got married, and then you look at the date as
Speaker 2: of the date of the filing of the divorce, and
Speaker 2: you see what you had then and remained intact and
Speaker 2: stayed separate and apart, and what you have now.
Speaker 1: And so she spent a bunch of your money and
Speaker 1: it went down.
Speaker 2: That's it. It's gone, It's gone.
Speaker 1: How do you have that conversation, though? How do you
Speaker 1: have the prenup conversation without? I mean, that's got to
Speaker 1: be so awkward unless you're super rich, and then you're like,
Speaker 1: my board is making me do this?
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, a lot of times, especially here
Speaker 2: in South Florida, we have children of wealthy parents, trust children.
Speaker 2: We have people that have already been through divorce that
Speaker 2: have substantial wealth. They're smart, most of them. I have
Speaker 2: to tell you that that I've had more prenups signings
Speaker 2: in the last let's say, sixty days and I've had
Speaker 2: in a long time. I'm getting them on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: It's just smart. If you think about it, if fifty
Speaker 2: percent of the people get divorced, I don't know, kind
Speaker 2: of have to figure that out. Yeah, and why wouldn't you?
Speaker 2: And I hear a lot of younger people getting prenups.
Speaker 2: They just want to tie that part up and not
Speaker 2: have to worry about it.
Speaker 1: You focus mainly on women, Not.
Speaker 2: Really, I focus on women for my life coaching, right well,
Speaker 2: for both male and female. As a divorce lawyer, what.
Speaker 1: How is the process other than what you said? And
Speaker 1: they come to you and they're not quite sure, but
Speaker 1: the breakup, you know, take the infidelity out of it.
Speaker 1: Take it we just grew apart out of it. Do
Speaker 1: you try and get into the why you're getting divorced?
Speaker 1: And try and said or you're just like, okay, you
Speaker 1: want to get divorced and I'm going to How much
Speaker 1: of you are you blending life coaching with divorce? Well?
Speaker 2: I blend it, but I think any good divorce attorney
Speaker 2: first question is is your marriage irritatedly broken? Because that's
Speaker 2: one of the criteria for getting divorced, and if you
Speaker 2: can save the marriage, Like I have a case right
Speaker 2: now where he doesn't want to be divorced, but the
Speaker 2: wife has some severe substance abuse issues. He'd rather her
Speaker 2: get help, but this has been ongoing for years and
Speaker 2: as we know, we can't force people into treatment. So
Speaker 2: he's made a decision to get divorced. Would he prefer
Speaker 2: not of course. So when I spoke to him, it
Speaker 2: was all about what have you tried? Have you tried
Speaker 2: to get her in therapy? And how have you tried that? First?
Speaker 2: Because he doesn't want this, we tried a few more things,
Speaker 2: gave him some advice, and now we had to file.
Speaker 2: That's a first question. But from there the life coaching
Speaker 2: for me, it is just part of what I already
Speaker 2: did because I truly care about my clients and I
Speaker 2: want them to get to a better place. But like anything,
Speaker 2: it's a cost benefit. Sometimes you can stay and work
Speaker 2: things out, and if you can, I encourage that and
Speaker 2: maybe open their their thoughts to some of the ideas
Speaker 2: to keep the marriage together that maybe they didn't consider,
Speaker 2: like a post nuptial agreement, like maybe we have financial
Speaker 2: issues the wife is spending too much, or the husband's eeropsychloboge.
Speaker 1: You know you can take on this, let's stay together,
Speaker 1: but you can I don't want to be responsible for
Speaker 1: this dad if it gets out of hand.
Speaker 2: Right, And that can work in some cases, you know
Speaker 2: where now they've resolved that and they can really focus
Speaker 2: in on other issues in their relationship.
Speaker 1: So is custody easier to work out than the money.
Speaker 2: It depends. Most of the cases that I deal with,
Speaker 2: I would say that the parties pretty much have the
Speaker 2: best interests of the children in line, and they're able
Speaker 2: to work it out. It's a little you know here
Speaker 2: and there, but they work through it. Other cases not
Speaker 2: so much. And I can kind of identify those clients
Speaker 2: that have an agenda with the children really far away.
Speaker 1: Okay, you don't want to use the children as absolutely
Speaker 1: as a weapon. Way. I'm always surprised at how often
Speaker 1: women or a man they hate each other and think
Speaker 1: they are the devil, and then they're like, oh, but
Speaker 1: he's a good father. Oh sure, and they really can compartmentalize,
Speaker 1: which is shocking to me. Or they're like, we made
Speaker 1: this child together who we both love and we share
Speaker 1: this and I see the good things in the child.
Speaker 1: But they're they're really able to the compartment which is amazing.
Speaker 1: Props to them.
Speaker 2: It's good for them. I mean my ex husband Sam,
Speaker 2: who's also a lawyer but doesn't touch family law. He
Speaker 2: does medical mail practice and PI stuff him and I
Speaker 2: I would consider him one of my best friends. Like literally,
Speaker 2: I could call him at three in the morning.
Speaker 1: I need him.
Speaker 2: He's there for me same here, we just the kids.
Speaker 1: Wherever do you handle your own divorce?
Speaker 2: Is not because you have a fool for a client, right.
Speaker 1: O.
Speaker 2: No, I had somebody else handle it. But at the
Speaker 2: end we really put our client, our lawyers aside, and
Speaker 2: we went to mediation ourselves and we banged it out
Speaker 2: in eight hours and we went to dinner.
Speaker 1: How often does somebody either change their mind on the money, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't I sign that and I
Speaker 1: want to go back and do it again, or you
Speaker 1: know what, I realized I still love him. Can we
Speaker 1: can we get this back together? That's not your problem.
Speaker 2: No, No, I've had the I call my annuities. I've
Speaker 2: had that happened. But most of the time, when we
Speaker 2: get through the process, the legal system is still you know,
Speaker 2: it's got a lot of problems. So just no matter
Speaker 2: how amicable, you have to do, certain things in the
Speaker 2: legal process that kind of push people further apart, and
Speaker 2: it's changing slowly, but by the end they usually don't
Speaker 2: really consider reconciliation. But I have had a few.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we talked about that on a podcast couple
Speaker 1: of years ago. That boyfriend and girlfriends break up and
Speaker 1: they get back together all the time, but rarely and
Speaker 1: people are like, once the legal gets involved, it's.
Speaker 2: A it changes everything.
Speaker 1: It does. It changes the tone and how you see them.
Speaker 1: When somebody gets divorced, how do they understand the process
Speaker 1: of it or how much of it? Like you have
Speaker 1: to teach them here are the steps, and here's what's
Speaker 1: going to work. And it's not just you know, we
Speaker 1: sit in a room and here's how we find the money,
Speaker 1: and here's how we realize who gets what and whatever.
Speaker 1: It's complicated. You're earning your money on this.
Speaker 2: It's complicated. I call it the Ian one of divorce.
Speaker 2: You know, they need an education, not to a level
Speaker 2: of knowing it like I do, but they certainly need
Speaker 2: to make educated decisions. And I look to them for
Speaker 2: the answers. Here's your option, we can do this. Here's
Speaker 2: how much it's going to cost you. What's the cost
Speaker 2: benefit here? You know, if you have a man who
Speaker 2: let's not say man, if you have someone who's going
Speaker 2: to pay support and you're talking a five hundred dollars
Speaker 2: a difference month, and we're gonna fight that. I do
Speaker 2: the actual math with them, and I'll sit with them
Speaker 2: and say we're fighting this. Could we look at this
Speaker 2: like how much it's going to cost you in litigation
Speaker 2: and time and trial, and you know, let's see if
Speaker 2: we can come to a compromise here.
Speaker 1: And you must run into man or woman again not
Speaker 1: to stereotype somebody who has not worked in twenty years
Speaker 1: or more and maybe the assets were nothing and suddenly
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, I'm fifty four years old
Speaker 1: and I got to find a job.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That happens a lot scary a lot of traditional
Speaker 2: marriages here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2: I that in our community where we live here in Boca,
Speaker 2: and you know it's changing. But I always said, listen,
Speaker 2: if you get married young or whenever you get married,
Speaker 2: and you're going to give up your career, you got
Speaker 2: to think about that because the courts are not awarding
Speaker 2: support alimony like they used to years ago, and they
Speaker 2: are expecting you, whether you're fifty four or sixty to work.
Speaker 2: They're going to impute income to you. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: gave up your career, and you got to take that
Speaker 2: into consideration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if somebody gave up their career to raise the kids,
Speaker 1: take care of the house. He was a doctor, had
Speaker 1: a gambling problem. He lost it all and now we're divorced,
Speaker 1: and then he can continue working. Sure is that factor in?
Speaker 1: And then it's like, well, she gave it up, so
Speaker 1: until she can get up to a certain point, he
Speaker 1: still has to pay.
Speaker 2: Absolutely that matters. And it looks at you look at
Speaker 2: the standard of living. You look at what is considered
Speaker 2: a need versus extras. You know, somebody has a clothing
Speaker 2: habit every month of ten grand. That's probably not a need, right,
Speaker 2: but there is some allowance for clothing. Let's just say
Speaker 2: as an example. And then they're going to say, what
Speaker 2: is her capacity for work? And let's say, and I'm
Speaker 2: saying he, it's he, shey because women pay alimony as well.
Speaker 2: I have it both ways. But she can work and
Speaker 2: she can make X amount of dollars. We have experts
Speaker 2: that come in and actually do an evaluation and it's
Speaker 2: called a vocational exam, and they will basically impute income
Speaker 2: to the under earning spouse and offset the alimony need,
Speaker 2: and then the difference is paid by the one that
Speaker 2: can pay based on his or her ability.
Speaker 1: Most alimony stops when she remarries.
Speaker 2: Yes, that would be considered what they call permanent alimony.
Speaker 2: You know, long term alimony and generally or if they're
Speaker 2: in support of financial relationship, that changed, right, you know,
Speaker 2: So now if you're living with somebody and you're you know,
Speaker 2: you don't have as many expenses, you're being you know,
Speaker 2: either directly or indirectly provided support.
Speaker 1: You can can he make the case like listen, she
Speaker 1: loves him and they're just not marrying because they want me.
Speaker 2: To pay right, Well, you could rate, you could, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but we get really dig you know, you start digging
Speaker 2: deep into finances and subpoenaing records and figuring it out.
Speaker 2: So you know, I understand that it seems fair. You know,
Speaker 2: it seems fair.
Speaker 1: All right, We got to take a quick break because
Speaker 1: we need to take care of our finances, but we
Speaker 1: will be back on them here with Duran Yaff and
Speaker 1: we're talking about all things love and divorce right after this,
Speaker 1: and we are back our second marriage. Second divorce is easier.
Speaker 2: I think, so is it?
Speaker 1: Is it because they've been through it or so it's
Speaker 1: you do get.
Speaker 2: Better at Remember we started talking about the unknown. Right
Speaker 2: now they know and so they're more That's maybe why
Speaker 2: the divorce rate for second time marriages is higher. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but but.
Speaker 1: They because the fantasy of the fifth ever after is gone,
Speaker 1: I think, so.
Speaker 2: I think there's more realistic. They're just a wiser, you know,
Speaker 2: as we all get in our age.
Speaker 1: But and I went through it and I survived it,
Speaker 1: which is a big part of recidivism if you're talking
Speaker 1: about criminal Actually they did the time, and they survived
Speaker 1: and they got out. So they're like part of the
Speaker 1: scariness of oh my god, I went to jail for
Speaker 1: five years is gone. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so
Speaker 1: part of the you know, people look at whether it's dating,
Speaker 1: a relationship is a game of musical chair chairs and
Speaker 1: they don't want to get stuck without a seat. So
Speaker 1: a lot of times people would rather stay in a
Speaker 1: bad relationship than no relationship. If they got divorced and
Speaker 1: then got remarried again, a third time is not nearly
Speaker 1: as far fetched as a second time was to them, absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know. And how is it changing that the women
Speaker 1: are paying more alimony and child support than they used to.
Speaker 2: I think that certainly they're better earners now than they
Speaker 2: were many years ago. So that's all factored into it
Speaker 2: when you look at support, either child support or alimonies.
Speaker 2: So you know, I have cases where women are the breadwinners,
Speaker 2: and I think with the younger generation even more so.
Speaker 2: You know, there's automen that stay home and take on
Speaker 2: that responsibility and that's okay, it's good.
Speaker 1: You know, how often do you run into how did
Speaker 1: you ever marry this person?
Speaker 2: But you know what, it's that expression elephants don't marry
Speaker 2: giraffes or giraffes don't marry. You always wonder, like you
Speaker 2: see this other person on the other side and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: this is really not a good person. How did you
Speaker 2: even get there?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: But then you start to uncover things about your client,
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I see how you guys connected. But sometimes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I had I had a really sad case where he
Speaker 2: was absolutely a para what do they call it?
Speaker 1: A liar?
Speaker 2: You pathological liar diagnosed one hundred percent could fool anybody.
Speaker 2: And that was a really sad case because she happened
Speaker 2: to be one of the most amazing women I've ever met,
Speaker 2: came from a great family. But he was able to
Speaker 2: convince her of things that you know, others couldn't and
Speaker 2: he was good at it. But other than that, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, what people generally are just good relationships.
Speaker 1: Just I think if you walk down the aisle, you
Speaker 1: are hoping for the best. I think the men are
Speaker 1: a lot of times the women. He you know, he's
Speaker 1: be a good parent, could provide her get all these
Speaker 1: kinds of things, all the stereotypical things. It's still she
Speaker 1: dreams of the house, the dog, the white pick offense.
Speaker 1: He's not even in that list. But well, I think
Speaker 1: when he enters into it, which is why. You know,
Speaker 1: some very very wealthy men who have written very big
Speaker 1: checks for divorce, you see, get married for the fifth
Speaker 1: or sixth time.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 1: I think they do. I think they are hoping in
Speaker 1: the moment or they're like, if I marry her, she
Speaker 1: won't leave me. There's something about like, oh I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lock her down, and they don't. They don't learn their
Speaker 1: lesson after all that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we all are just in this world
Speaker 2: trying to love. Yeah, I think, and we all want that.
Speaker 2: That's one of the higher needs you know that we
Speaker 2: all have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And even when somebody goes through something incredibly painful
Speaker 1: and they have been arguing every Tuesday in court for
Speaker 1: three years or whatever, there's a part of them, and
Speaker 1: that's part of your job, and that's part of our job,
Speaker 1: and that sort of society's job is to flame that
Speaker 1: hope again and have them because once they can see
Speaker 1: there's a possibility of all right, once I get through this,
Speaker 1: or once I stop thinking about this or the anger
Speaker 1: or the sadness subsides, I can start new again. And
Speaker 1: there's still time to do that. That's look.
Speaker 2: I have people getting prenuptials that are in their eighties.
Speaker 2: They found love again, they found companionship, right, and they
Speaker 2: want to make sure that their estates are secure for
Speaker 2: their family. So they're going to have their trust all
Speaker 2: in place and all this. They just want to be
Speaker 2: together and it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: Can you if somebody dies without a will here, that's different.
Speaker 1: Every state's different, Every state's different. Yeah, And can they leave?
Speaker 1: Can somebody leave their estate to a dog in this state?
Speaker 2: And that's not you know, that's above my.
Speaker 1: Pag No, that's not what I mean. Certain states, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the dog has a budget, and it's eighty percent of.
Speaker 2: The will dog custody cases. Do you but dogs are
Speaker 2: considered chattel property from the old days, right, Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I mean, we've had drawn out fights about who gets
Speaker 2: a dog. And the bottom line is you can't have
Speaker 2: a visitation schedule. You can agree to it separately, but
Speaker 2: you can't have The courts won't order that.
Speaker 1: They won't. They won't be like you get the dogs
Speaker 1: on weekends.
Speaker 2: There's case all right on point one person gets a dog,
Speaker 2: it's considered property and that's it. I know, I know,
Speaker 2: I know that'll change because we all love our for friends.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, fifty years ago, until the fifties,
Speaker 1: dogs were not in the house. Right, This is a
Speaker 1: fairly new development, and a lot of countries are like that.
Speaker 1: They're working animals and they're out and their true thousand
Speaker 1: horses or whatever. And somewhere time after World War Two,
Speaker 1: we decided to let the dog in the house. And
Speaker 1: then the dog got in the bed, and the dog
Speaker 1: was a child, and then he took over. I mean
Speaker 1: he takes over. But yeah, I didn't think about it.
Speaker 1: I didn't think about that dog or cat custody.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've had a prenup in which
Speaker 2: that was going to be. That was one of the issues.
Speaker 1: I get the dog, that's got to be tough. And
Speaker 1: then do they do they work out visitation or is
Speaker 1: that separate in the courts? Just like whatever you want
Speaker 1: to figure out, figure out they ken.
Speaker 2: It's just that if you can't agree, the court's going
Speaker 2: to give the dog to one person.
Speaker 1: Is it. I've asked some people this who have gotten
Speaker 1: divorced because somebody had an affair with somebody else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I always wondered, is it better if twenty years
Speaker 1: later they're still with that person because on some levels,
Speaker 1: like well, I guess it worked out for them, or
Speaker 1: the pairs of people always were rooting for it to
Speaker 1: not work out.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that would make it easier, while like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess that they were better together than we were.
Speaker 2: Have I had those cases of course? And you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Look, I mean unfortunately people aren't faithful
Speaker 2: from time to time. I have to tell you it's
Speaker 2: not what I see is one of the maze major causes.
Speaker 2: It's really more about financials and a lot about just
Speaker 2: really communication. I know it sounds so cliche, right, but
Speaker 2: really just not growing together. They're just growing separately, and
Speaker 2: so you have to work at it right. You have
Speaker 2: to really work at your marriage right.
Speaker 1: They got lazy. They went from husband wife to mom
Speaker 1: and dad, and then they grew apart, and.
Speaker 2: Then you get comfortable. And you know, I say, sometimes
Speaker 2: people spend more time on their financials like writing checks
Speaker 2: or now we do it online, than they do on
Speaker 2: really working on the relationship every month, and you got
Speaker 2: to work at it.
Speaker 1: Is there a huge rise in divorces when the youngest
Speaker 1: kid turns seventeen. That's a real thing.
Speaker 2: That's a real thing because a lot of people have
Speaker 2: a perception that it's better to stay together even though
Speaker 2: it's bad until the children leave.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have my own personal opinion on that. I'm not
Speaker 2: a therapist. I'm not into that line of work, but
Speaker 2: I just think it's a horrible example.
Speaker 1: You were very very young when your parents got divorced.
Speaker 1: You could you remember that? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is there an age where I guess every age is tough.
Speaker 1: They're old enough to understand but not quite old enough
Speaker 1: to process it. There's that's a pretty big window. What
Speaker 1: do you remember about it?
Speaker 2: Just I remember he took my sister and I out
Speaker 2: to lunch with her, and I thought, you know, here,
Speaker 2: I am like probably four or five, at almost five
Speaker 2: at the time, and I thought, why am I with
Speaker 2: this lady? It felt weird to me, It felt not
Speaker 2: right right. A child other than that don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of memory of it, right, but I do remember
Speaker 2: it being something was wrong.
Speaker 1: Can you work that out in court? Can she say
Speaker 1: I don't he can have visitation or partial custody but
Speaker 1: not around her.
Speaker 2: The answer is yes and no.
Speaker 1: Right he's kept doing force. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the courts in Florida very hitch's the word liberal,
Speaker 2: but they're very understanding that both parents get to have
Speaker 2: our due process, constitutional right to have our children and
Speaker 2: to parent them as we see appropriate. And if you
Speaker 2: chose to have a child with this person, then they
Speaker 2: get to make some decision on who they're going to
Speaker 2: expose a child to. So the courts are really reluctant
Speaker 2: to say no girlfriend or boyfriend around the child unless
Speaker 2: there's some best interest, like the person is using drugs
Speaker 2: or just really not a good person. But generally they
Speaker 2: they you know, they don't go there. I had a
Speaker 2: lady today, She's like, well, I don't want him to
Speaker 2: have the child because he has only one bedroom and
Speaker 2: he he this is a divorce, you know, like a
Speaker 2: year later and he has a new girlfriend. The daughter
Speaker 2: is eight from the relationship, and the new girlfriend has
Speaker 2: a child who's six, and like, where are they going
Speaker 2: to sleep? And all that. I'm like, listen, the courts
Speaker 2: are going to say, he's going to figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, they're six and eight?
Speaker 1: So does tie go to the mother?
Speaker 2: Does what a tie?
Speaker 1: It's like in baseball? The tie goes to the runner?
Speaker 1: Does a tie go to the mother? I don't believe. Okay,
Speaker 1: if it's no, I want the no.
Speaker 2: Nh uh. That was called the tender year doctrines. That
Speaker 2: was way when I first started. Primarily moms got children
Speaker 2: because they presumed that up through the age. I believe
Speaker 2: it was too that the mothers were necessary to care
Speaker 2: and feed and do all the thing's caretaking. That was abolished.
Speaker 2: That's gone. It's really many men get more time sharing
Speaker 2: than women.
Speaker 1: They do. Yeah, I know, but I thought it was
Speaker 1: always tough that the court was going to be like that.
Speaker 1: The woman has a lot more wiggle room behaviorally than
Speaker 1: the man, would you know.
Speaker 2: I think that is kind of a transception, is because
Speaker 2: it really is a caretaker who's been the primary caretaker
Speaker 2: and if the mother has been which typically in many cases,
Speaker 2: is the case, then they will, you know, but it's Look,
Speaker 2: there's no presumption in Florida fifty to fifty time sharing.
Speaker 2: That's that's a policy here. That's not something we do.
Speaker 2: But do the courts look at them? Sure they do
Speaker 2: in their own minds.
Speaker 1: Well, what did two people do if they're just like,
Speaker 1: he's the worst father, she's the worst mother. Yeah, nobody's gonna.
Speaker 2: Cave prove it. You got to prove it to the
Speaker 2: court because it's best interest. And it's not easy because
Speaker 2: most of these best interest issues of bad dad bad
Speaker 2: mom are done in the privacy of your home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, can the court rule fifty to fifty
Speaker 1: or so? The court can? Yes, What if somebody is well,
Speaker 1: which again we're in South Florida, sure wealthy, they want
Speaker 1: the custody, But the custody for them means their nanny
Speaker 1: is going to do their half of the raising.
Speaker 2: Is that That's a good question. You know. I always
Speaker 2: say that if dad's let's just say it's dad, right,
Speaker 2: and dad's around, and he has somebody that's going to
Speaker 2: help with the caretaking as long as he's around, and
Speaker 2: you know, he's not every night somewhere else, why not.
Speaker 2: You know, the courts are going to permit that an
Speaker 2: extra set of hair hands. It takes a village, right.
Speaker 1: Is it a myth that the divorces went up from COVID.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Florida wasn't quite locked down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what. I tried to figure that out,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't find stats that conclusively told me that.
Speaker 2: I didn't see any change. I mean, I saw some
Speaker 2: change in postponed filings.
Speaker 1: Right, it might have been an illusion that afterwards because
Speaker 1: the courts were so backed up and they still are right,
Speaker 1: and so it looked like a spike.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you were able to do it the whole time?
Speaker 1: They do it online here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, some out of something bad something good. Right,
Speaker 2: So we in our office always had zoom because I
Speaker 2: found that clients run in privacy. I had one lady
Speaker 2: get in the elevator, wants to come to my office.
Speaker 2: Guess who was in the elevator her husband, oh man,
Speaker 2: and couldn't explain it at all. Why was she there?
Speaker 2: She was a stay at home mom and house maker
Speaker 2: and all that.
Speaker 1: And why was he there? Well, he was.
Speaker 2: Visiting somebody at one of the offices.
Speaker 1: And so she had no she had no.
Speaker 2: Idea, and I thought, oh, this isn't good. So we
Speaker 2: got zoom in place. But the courts now do most
Speaker 2: of the hearings non evidentiary hearings and smaller hearings by zoom.
Speaker 2: Great for clients, yeah, not always good for Like I
Speaker 2: had a five day trial. You can't do that by zoom.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it possible, yes, but it's going to
Speaker 2: add another three days onto. How do you show somebody
Speaker 2: a document? You know? How do you It's really challenging.
Speaker 1: And they're not jury trials, right, they're just the judge,
Speaker 1: just the judge. How often so a woman comes to
Speaker 1: you or a man and they say, I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: getting divorced, do you try and tell them how to
Speaker 1: sock some money away for the divorce process because some
Speaker 1: people don't like some people don't have access to Like
Speaker 1: you brought up the woman with sneaking the meeting, Well,
Speaker 1: it's tough to sneak the bill the retainer, it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So listen, everybody out there, have your own money,
Speaker 2: have your own resources, just in case you never know.
Speaker 2: And I could get into a whole topic on that one.
Speaker 2: But because I have three girls, you know some always
Speaker 2: telling them to make sure you're your own person, which
Speaker 2: I learned from my mother.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But the answer is, yeah, someday you need your your
Speaker 2: your funds, you know, and we we try to. We're
Speaker 2: not like some lawyers are like, Hey, the retainer's ten grand,
Speaker 2: and that's what it is. And no, it's not a
Speaker 2: one size fits all because I may be able to
Speaker 2: do the divorce and be more flexible or have different arrangements.
Speaker 2: It depends.
Speaker 1: So but you must charge more if it's a wealthy couple, right, No,
Speaker 1: but you have.
Speaker 2: More resources available, right, so all the buildings the same,
Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, it's just you're going to probably have
Speaker 2: some more complicated issues, maybe with valuation problems.
Speaker 1: And that'll rack up the hours. Absolutely okay, But how
Speaker 1: do you what do you do if you're the woman
Speaker 1: and she hasn't had her own resources. It's you know,
Speaker 1: old school traditional marriage. Are you like, I don't get
Speaker 1: this on the back end?
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't personally do that, and I don't
Speaker 2: know many good family lawyers that do, or board certified lawyers.
Speaker 2: But it's not an injury attorney, no, exactly. You can't
Speaker 2: in some cases for like collection of rearg and support.
Speaker 2: We can do that. I don't personally do it, but
Speaker 2: some lawyers do and that's permitted. But you will get
Speaker 2: to a temporary relief hearing and you will ask the
Speaker 2: court to impose attorney's fees and costs and you know,
Speaker 2: based on need and ability. So you just have you
Speaker 2: have to jump through like about probably sixty ninety days
Speaker 2: of work.
Speaker 1: Are people pretty good with making the payments they're supposed
Speaker 1: to make or does that depend on the state they.
Speaker 2: Are with my firm?
Speaker 1: Okay, certain states are tougher too, certain states. Some it's
Speaker 1: criminal and some are civil. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean here the judges understand what it takes to
Speaker 2: get a case through and they understand the issues. And
Speaker 2: if it's complicating, you need experts involved. I mean some
Speaker 2: cases you got you know, valuation cases where you have
Speaker 2: a lot of businesses and you got to bring an
Speaker 2: expert in. It's like doing a value for any purpose.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What does somebody do who they own a business together? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it happens there.
Speaker 2: One person is going to get it if you go
Speaker 2: to trial. Now, some cases they have agreements to work together.
Speaker 2: I have one couple they are in business together post
Speaker 2: divorce and they chose to be in business because they
Speaker 2: are amazing business partners together.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, and then maybe if the business fell apart,
Speaker 1: then neither neither one's going to get any money. Yes,
Speaker 1: So yeah, that makes sense too, have.
Speaker 2: An interest, right?
Speaker 1: Huh? What the most common? Is there a length of
Speaker 1: time of marriage that it's kids aside and we brought
Speaker 1: that they turned seventeen? Is it the three to five
Speaker 1: year part where most divorces happened or is it quicker
Speaker 1: or longer?
Speaker 2: Longer?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: From my experience, so I think it's somewhere around the
Speaker 2: seven year seven years.
Speaker 1: That's a real pay No, it's.
Speaker 2: A real thing, you know, because you're still on the
Speaker 2: honeymoon stage right right, and you start settling into more
Speaker 2: complacency after a period of time. So yeah, you know
Speaker 2: seven plus. I have a lot of long term marriages too,
Speaker 2: which is anything over eighteen years?
Speaker 1: What's the longest marriage? Can you say? You can say
Speaker 1: over fifty years?
Speaker 2: They were married.
Speaker 1: I had met and she wanted to go back out,
Speaker 1: and he was doubt is that?
Speaker 2: Let me tell you. I had one lady come to
Speaker 2: me and this is a recent case, and she's in
Speaker 2: her eighties and she said, I am not going to
Speaker 2: die married to him?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And you know what, she has a right, she has right.
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's you know, the energy levels, the health levels.
Speaker 2: And remember in Florida, you get fifty percent if you
Speaker 2: get through a divorce, right, you get fifty percent generally
Speaker 2: from the assets. Right, it's like a net worst statement.
Speaker 2: Divide it in half. You get thirty percent if the
Speaker 2: person if as an estate through probate, so thirty versus fifty.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they get divorced because they want that higher percentage.
Speaker 2: How they can do what they want with it. Right,
Speaker 2: There's a lot of times there's issues with older children.
Speaker 2: They align with one parent over the.
Speaker 1: Other over fifty. When they over thirty years and they
Speaker 1: get divorced, it's generally more amicable or is It's hard
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say. It's the same.
Speaker 1: What's the quickest you've dealt with divorced? Like they get
Speaker 1: married on Friday and they're in there on Monday.
Speaker 2: That's called an annulment. And hopefully they didn't have relationships.
Speaker 1: Well, can you get an old? Can you get an
Speaker 1: old for no reason? No?
Speaker 2: It has to be based on like fraud.
Speaker 1: What if like we we had never lived together, before
Speaker 1: we got married, honeymoon, we moved together. I can't believe
Speaker 1: he puts his socks on the floor. I can not
Speaker 1: deal with this.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had an under thirty days and like, this
Speaker 1: isn't working.
Speaker 2: I have had a few like that, but they're rare.
Speaker 2: They're rare.
Speaker 1: So it's the sweet spot. It's the seven years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, seven years plus seven to like eighteen. When they
Speaker 2: come to me after like twenty plus years, I'm like,
Speaker 2: really really, you know, so I really try to make
Speaker 2: sure that this is what they really need to do,
Speaker 2: want to do, should do.
Speaker 1: Uh how often are you like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: on the other person's side. But this is my job
Speaker 1: as a lawyer. Like you're a terrible wife or your
Speaker 1: terrible husband, But I got to do my job. But
Speaker 1: oh man, you know.
Speaker 2: I don't take every case that comes to the door
Speaker 2: because I've had people that have agendas and I can
Speaker 2: pretty much spot that so or personalities that don't match
Speaker 2: with mine. You know, because I'm gonna be a straight
Speaker 2: shooter and I'm going to tell you the way it is.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to just do it to get paid.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you listen, you gotta clean that,
Speaker 2: you know up, because that personality isn't going to do
Speaker 2: well for me, for you or for your case. So
Speaker 2: I try to get a little control there, client control.
Speaker 2: And then sometimes it doesn't work out and we're just
Speaker 2: not a good match.
Speaker 1: Or you're like, of course he's going to divorce you
Speaker 1: or I like that and I'm like, okay, I get this, yeah,
Speaker 1: or it's like oh yeah, I see what you were doing.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, I've had those.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean every you know, divorced woman thinks she
Speaker 1: happened to marry a narcissist, right, you know that's statistically
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, there's such bad luck for everybody.
Speaker 2: You know what that's that that that term is used
Speaker 2: so often here I think.
Speaker 1: Over you it is statistically it's like two percent of
Speaker 1: people are clinical narcissists. And I'm like, maybe maybe he
Speaker 1: just didn't like or maybe it's just a jerk, or
Speaker 1: it's how how often are the guys like, you know what,
Speaker 1: she really just wanted money, She really did just want
Speaker 1: my money? And is the courts like too bad? Like
Speaker 1: you didn't realize that it's too bad? Right?
Speaker 2: Orts are too bad? It's really it's a mathematical calculation, right,
Speaker 2: what are the assets at that data marriage data filing?
Speaker 1: That's it divided. She not quite married you under false pretenses,
Speaker 1: but they love you. The I love yous were probably
Speaker 1: not as binding as you thought they were.
Speaker 2: Look, and we have a lot of second high marriages
Speaker 2: where the older person is marrying some of the younger
Speaker 2: and you know, typically the and the writings on the wall.
Speaker 2: I mean not every case, right, but very often, you know,
Speaker 2: but love comes in different forms, and maybe being taken
Speaker 2: care of and protected and knowing you're financially secure is
Speaker 2: valuable and has.
Speaker 1: You know, that's starting to change more too. There's more
Speaker 1: women in that situation, absolutely, more sugar mamas than they're
Speaker 1: used to. Yeah, yes, especially down here where she has
Speaker 1: her late husband ex husband's money and then she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have fun with the young guy and then
Speaker 1: he had spent two years and then that's it. I know,
Speaker 1: what is the thing that people be surprised to learn
Speaker 1: about getting divorced, the process of it, or.
Speaker 2: Surprised about it. It's really not that complicated, really, yeah,
Speaker 2: if you can, And that's why being a life coach
Speaker 2: too is a helpful. I think asset for my clients,
Speaker 2: but if they don't use me for life coaching and
Speaker 2: they have a therapist. Look, there's the emotions of divorce,
Speaker 2: and it really needs to be separate and apart from
Speaker 2: the divorce and your lawyer. But the divorce itself pretty simple.
Speaker 2: It's not challenging. It's all those emotions. So the biggest on,
Speaker 2: the biggest myth is it's really not that bad. I
Speaker 2: know you feel it is when you're in it, right,
Speaker 2: but the process itself not overly complicated.
Speaker 1: The process has been honed over time by the courts
Speaker 1: and lots of lawyers. I was in a Why is
Speaker 1: there such a plethora of injury attorney advertising? I don't know,
Speaker 1: was there a law change or something that it's every
Speaker 1: billboard because there used to be in the morning. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: there used to be liquor. There used to be a
Speaker 1: ban on liquor advertising on television. And then I went
Speaker 1: away and we see more of it. So nothing changed,
Speaker 1: and suddenly everybody's a injury. I mean I went through that.
Speaker 1: I was in a car accident a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I broke thirteen ribs and a lot of other things.
Speaker 1: Ribs are nebulous. They hurt a lot, but they're recoverable.
Speaker 1: So they said, right, there's no damage, there's no surgery.
Speaker 2: There's no ultimate right, and it's tough to.
Speaker 1: Wrap up the bills on it. And so it's one
Speaker 1: of those things. So the lawyers like, by the time
Speaker 1: we get to court on this, you're going to be fine.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to describe how much it hurt.
Speaker 2: That's that's what my ex husband does. And you'll have
Speaker 2: a horrific accident, you know, and I'm sure it was
Speaker 2: extremely painful and lost wages and time and all that.
Speaker 2: But if you can recover physically, yeah, and you don't
Speaker 2: have the damages, the permanent damage, right from what I know.
Speaker 1: That's not my expertise, you know, because I know. So
Speaker 1: it's like, by the time if you heal, people are like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: broken ribs, terrible, it sucks. I'm like, I had thirteen
Speaker 1: of them. They're like, yeah, you're fine now. So I
Speaker 1: had we had to settle it long before we went
Speaker 1: to cortcause the longer we waited, the or healed. I
Speaker 1: was I know, thank god, I know, thank god, it
Speaker 1: was a good thing. But I was surprised at how
Speaker 1: well this was worth this, and this is worth this,
Speaker 1: and then there's pain and suffering, and here's the insurance,
Speaker 1: and here's what they were. It was very, very like
Speaker 1: people had gone through this a million times.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, this is your first time on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We play something with our guests called worst date or
Speaker 1: first date. So you have to you have to think
Speaker 1: back to your swinging single days. Give me either the
Speaker 1: worst date you've ever had or the best first date
Speaker 1: you've ever had.
Speaker 2: Your choice first estate, Yes, our best first day.
Speaker 1: Either the best first date or a terrible date of
Speaker 1: any number.
Speaker 2: First Okay, and I can see him from where I'm
Speaker 2: sitting right now.
Speaker 1: Oh good.
Speaker 2: My husband, my current husband, we met on July third,
Speaker 2: twelve years ago, and we met for lunch and at
Speaker 2: the mall here and I got out, you know, of
Speaker 2: work at the time, and we spent the entire I
Speaker 2: canceled my entire day and the next day, that was
Speaker 2: on a Friday, July third, and I saw him the
Speaker 2: next day and I got married in four months.
Speaker 1: Fireworks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, amazing chemistry, just like safety chemistry. I can't
Speaker 2: even explain.
Speaker 1: How long had you? How long were you single.
Speaker 2: Oh, a couple of years, A couple of years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I had dated you know that here and there,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't. I was never really a dating type.
Speaker 2: I am busy, I you know so, and I have
Speaker 2: three young children.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you.
Speaker 1: Married fireworks state fireworks the next night. Yeah, four months later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can I ask where you met?
Speaker 2: Yeah? We met at the Grand Lux the restaurant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: at the mall. Which mall is that in town center?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah? Right here in Boca Raton there it all
Speaker 1: goes down here.
Speaker 2: I'm there and uh yeah, so good for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, where can everybody find you if they
Speaker 1: need a lawyer? Or listen to your podcast?
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's your divorce, your amazing divorce. And then
Speaker 2: my email dress is Dorin Yaffa and the last name
Speaker 2: is spelled Yaffa at Yaffa Family Lawgroup dot com and
Speaker 2: five six one two seven six three eighty zero.
Speaker 1: Good job. This was fun. I've never been married or divorced,
Speaker 1: but now I'm not so scared of either.
Speaker 2: Okay, just remember prenup.
Speaker 1: Noted see that to me, it would be hard. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just slip it across the table at Grandlox on
Speaker 1: the first day.
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's not for everybody.
Speaker 1: It's not for everybody, but you're right, I can logistically
Speaker 1: at least you have something. The worst thing is like
Speaker 1: you don't have anything like prenup Like sure.
Speaker 2: True?
Speaker 1: All right, As far as us like share, follow, please
Speaker 1: review not just your amazing divorce but our podcast to
Speaker 1: Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot
Speaker 1: us an email, Great Loove Debate at gmail dot COMFG
Speaker 1: any questions, comments, thoughts, or divorce horror stories. We might
Speaker 1: do a whole episode on that because, as always at
Speaker 1: the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See
Speaker 1: you next time. The Great Love Debate. It's the Great
Speaker 1: Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.