WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.439 Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an 2 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:04.759 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 3 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:07.679 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 4 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:10.400 counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That 5 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:12.919 is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino. 6 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:16.399 Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games 7 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.559 you can play for free anytime anywhere with daily bonuses. 8 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.079 That's your brighten your day low actually a lot, so 9 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:26.519 sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck 10 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:27.399 Casino dot com. 11 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.399 Nope, necessary daidherehabit I lost terms conditions eighteen plus. 12 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:33.560 With the Lucky land Slots, you can get lucky just 13 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:34.560 about anywhere. 14 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:38.240 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 15 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.200 weather's five. But we're just gonna circle up here a 16 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.479 while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. It's 17 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.159 just these cash prizes add up quick. So I suggest 18 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.200 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 19 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:49.320 start getting lucky. 20 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.000 Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Are you 21 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.759 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void, We're prohibited by Law 22 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.159 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website Ford. 23 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:02.439 Looks. 24 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:15.640 You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking 25 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.760 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 26 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:26.120 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.840 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:34.480 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:47.680 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 30 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:50.799 Good evening. This is your host Dan Supanski for the 31 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.640 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True crime 32 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.120 History and the authors that have written about them. Gary 33 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.159 Michael Hilton once sold this movie idea to hollyo with 34 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:03.400 the straight to video Deadly Run was about a man 35 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:05.920 who captures women only to set them free on this 36 00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.680 very private and secluded Georgia land so that he can 37 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:13.479 hunt and kill them. In two thousand and seven, at least, 38 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.599 that's the earliest investigators have been able to prove he 39 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.479 brought Hollywood to life when he began using state parts 40 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.479 as his own personal hunting grounds. Convicted of murder and 41 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:26.680 sentenced to death, it would seem the case was not closed. 42 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.639 Fred Rosen was commissioned by the Atlanta Journal Constitution to 43 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:33.680 write a front page piece for their Sunday section on 44 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:37.000 the real timeline of Meredith Emerson's murder, which is covered 45 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:41.080 in his book Trails of Death. Rosen was denied information 46 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.759 and now realized that the timeline in the book is wrong. 47 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:47.759 Emerson should probably still be alive. The truth never came out, 48 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.439 and Rosen is pursuing the story. The book that we're 49 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.639 going to be profiling this evening is Trails of Death Revisited, 50 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.960 an update with my special guest journalist and author Fred Rosen. 51 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:01.719 Welcome back to the and thank you for the Greens' 52 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:06.120 interview Fred Rosen, Dan, how are you great? Thanks? How 53 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:07.159 are you doing, Fred? 54 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:09.159 I'm doing well. Thank you. 55 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.919 For our audience. I was very interesting. I listened to 56 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:17.400 our previous interview that we did months ago, and you 57 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:20.919 had talked about something very very interesting, and you had 58 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.800 mentioned the listeners to watch for something to happen in 59 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:27.719 late October, and then I was in contact with you 60 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:30.879 and you had said the same thing. So let's just 61 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.840 I think maybe, unless it's you think it wouldn't be prudent. 62 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:38.800 Let's go back and give sort of an overview of 63 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:44.280 the Gary Michael Hilton case itself and then give us 64 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.560 the update and how this update came to be, and 65 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.960 talk about the Atlanta Journal Constitution and the front page 66 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.080 piece as much as you possibly can. Let's go back 67 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.000 to Gary Michael Hilton. 68 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:02.280 Sure well, Gary Hilton. Gary Hilton is a convicted serial killer. 69 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.960 And that's what that's what the book Trails of Death 70 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:11.759 is about. Gary began killing. He's only the third person 71 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:16.160 in United States history to begin his career as a 72 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:22.720 serial killer in his sixties. And what happened was Gary 73 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:29.800 began killing in North Carolina in October of two thousand 74 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:34.160 and seven, and he killed two people there, Irene and 75 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.639 John Bryant. And then he got back in his van 76 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:44.199 and he went south to Florida where he killed, decapitated 77 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:50.319 and also took off the hands of Ryl Dunlap. And 78 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:56.759 Gary did these things because it was going to obscure 79 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.079 the identity of these individuals. Then get back in the 80 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:08.560 van again and went up to Georgia where he kidnapped, decapitated, 81 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:13.920 or rather murdered and decapitated Meredith Emerson. And that occurred 82 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:18.439 in early January of two thousand and eight. And what 83 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:22.800 happened after that was after the police caught him in Georgia, 84 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.240 he fled to the murder of Emerson, he got life 85 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:32.519 in prison with parole. He was extradited to Florida where 86 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:37.560 he was convicted of murdering Sheryl Dunlap and sentenced to death, 87 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.959 and then he got extradited to North Carolina where he 88 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:46.759 was convicted earlier this year in federal court for murdering 89 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.959 the Bryants on federal land and sentenced to life in prison. 90 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:55.839 And essentially that is where things have stood and where 91 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:59.800 I come into it regarding doing a further investigation is 92 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.959 I've become privy to certain information which I am working 93 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:09.759 on right now, and it will sort of extend this 94 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:14.680 case and it will elucidate certain aspects of it that 95 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:17.240 to this point in time haven't been And that is 96 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.920 the story I'm working on for the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 97 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:25.040 Okay, now, tell us a little bit more, because what 98 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.079 we alluded to and we spoke of, I spoke of 99 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:31.360 in the introduction was the timeline. So that's that's pretty basic. 100 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.120 But tell us a little bit more without giving anything away. 101 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.360 If you whatever you can't give away, please don't. But 102 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:42.040 tell us more what aspect we're dealing with, and how 103 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.120 much and how important is this pre development. 104 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:48.240 Well, let's put it this way. You're a hell of 105 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:54.759 a good journalist for pressing things. No, I mean it, 106 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.600 because I can't really talk about it, but I can 107 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:07.240 say this. The there was a timeline that was released 108 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:18.199 by the police in Georgia, and that timeline includes when 109 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:30.079 she when Meredith was actually abducted, the time period during 110 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:35.680 the search, and then subsequently the time period during when 111 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:41.279 she was uh murdered, and then when they finally capture 112 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.000 mister Hilton. Now, one of the things that I can 113 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:50.160 talk about because this is this is already public, is this, 114 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.360 but I sort of put it together a little bit differently, 115 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:58.920 and that and that is this that Gary Hilton had 116 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.399 a federal warned out for his arrest at the time 117 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:07.639 of all of these murders, and believe it or not, 118 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:12.800 for abandoning his car on federal land in Georgia, Okay, 119 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:20.519 and it is a misdemeanor warrant. And this did not 120 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:25.000 and what makes it interesting, and this is really the 121 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.519 periphery of what I'm doing. But again, I don't mind 122 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.199 talking about this because this is certainly this has been reported. 123 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.799 But what I've done is basically put it all together. 124 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:40.679 And what occurred was this that this warrant occurred in 125 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.519 two thousand and six, and the warrant was never served 126 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:51.279 because they couldn't find Hilton, And what subsequently happened was 127 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:57.559 that the warrant just remained outstanding and it was for 128 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:02.840 his arrest. And what occurs is that after he kills 129 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.759 the Bryans in North Carolina, Irene and John Bryant, he 130 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:10.600 has stopped in Georgia in a rural area and his 131 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:16.559 license is run and the warrant doesn't come up. He 132 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:23.519 then goes to the Apalachicola National Forest in Florida and 133 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:29.000 he gets stopped there and the warrant is run and 134 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:34.679 it doesn't come up again, and then he subsequently will 135 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:40.559 kill Ryl Dunlap and Meredith Emerson. The story that I'm 136 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:46.159 writing deals with, among other things, why that warrant did 137 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.000 not come up when these people stopped him. So I 138 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:55.720 will be answering that question in the article. And I've 139 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:58.559 been able to get the cooperation of the United States 140 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:05.159 Marshall Service. They've been very kind and helping, and they've 141 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.720 actually been great, Actually, they've really been great. And so 142 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:14.919 I'm in the process of interviewing other individuals to put 143 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:18.799 together the rest of this information so that we have 144 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:26.080 a more accurate picture about why these people wound up dying. 145 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:30.080 And this will be a story, hopefully it'll be later 146 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.080 this month on the front page of the Sunday section 147 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:38.200 of the Atlanta Journal Constitution. How'd I do good? 148 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.480 I still have some questions, though, well. 149 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:43.200 You can ask them. I don't know if I can answer. 150 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:48.000 Okay. What I'm curious is is that the way you 151 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.600 spoke about it is that, Okay, you're going to tell 152 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.799 why even though there was these two federal warrants, that 153 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:59.639 this warrant didn't come up. Now, being a curious mind 154 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.519 that I am am, I sounds like if you did 155 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:06.440 get cooperation from the US marshalls, then certainly there isn't 156 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:11.600 much blame to be assigned to anyone specifically. 157 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:14.879 That would be a safe assumption. 158 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:22.480 Okay, is it? How groundbreaking? Is is the information? 159 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:28.159 Well? I didn't think any of that stuff. I can't 160 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:34.000 do that. There will be groundbreaking information in the story, uh, 161 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.919 there will will. There will be groundbreaking information in the 162 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:44.360 story because, as in any situation where individuals are abducted, 163 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:53.440 the what occurs is everybody is put on alert and 164 00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:00.000 as an information comes out, in dribs and drabs, and 165 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:05.480 it really does take time for a journalists to put 166 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:11.200 together the the the the overall line of the whole thing. 167 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.120 And it's not just it's not just the timeline, uh. 168 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.000 I mean, that's part of it, but it's it's it's 169 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:25.679 the it's getting the perspective on what happened and why 170 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:30.320 it happened. And it isn't a question of of get 171 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:34.080 a blame or something of that nature. It's simply what 172 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:36.559 we journalists do, which is trying to get the best 173 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:40.399 attainable version of the truth. And that's not an easy 174 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:45.159 thing to do. And as you know, and I was looking, 175 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.919 I've been lucky enough to be able to get access 176 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.159 to certain information, uh that I had been denied previously, 177 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.960 and that's helped me to really put the whole thing 178 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:04.120 in perspective, so to take a look at really why 179 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.559 these things, why these things happen the way that they happened. 180 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:13.000 And that's what I think is most important, is is 181 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:17.039 the why it happened and the way it happened. And 182 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.919 again I know that I'm speaking in generalities. I you know, 183 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.159 when you're in the middle of doing something, it's difficult 184 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:29.000 to do otherwise, And but that's what the story will 185 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:33.000 deal with. And so I would simply ask the listeners 186 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.399 confidence and patience, and you know, if they, if they, 187 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.879 you know, keep abreast with us, they will get their 188 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.039 money's worth. And from what I understand, you can just 189 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.679 get the paper online for nothing, so it won't cost anything. 190 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.600 But so anyway, I'm putting it together, and there's still 191 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:55.639 certain individuals that I need to speak to regarding this, 192 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.000 and and that's that's where it's at right now. 193 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:06.960 Now you can't tell us by what route you were 194 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.960 able to gain this new information that was, as you say, 195 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:11.519 was denied to you initially. 196 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:15.919 Bee Trout Betroth. 197 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:19.720 Okay, well enough said, then, you know, I know, I 198 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.240 see what happened. 199 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.080 Was in order to understand where I come into this, 200 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:32.360 I had started working on this story almost three years ago. 201 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:36.200 Well actually I started working on it really to day 202 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.759 that Meredith was abducted. I started researching it, but it 203 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.279 wouldn't be until two years later because it took time 204 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:44.840 for the case to wind through the system. 205 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:45.679 Right. 206 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:51.360 A couple of years later, I was working for Hustler magazine. 207 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.799 I write for Larry Flint occasionally, and I was writing 208 00:14:55.879 --> 00:15:03.600 a story about this case, and I requested information through 209 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.759 the Freedom of Information Act in Georgia, and I requested 210 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:12.039 information regarding the case, and it went to the to 211 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.960 the I sent it to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, 212 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.159 and then in some mysterious way, it wound up on 213 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.320 the desk my request of the Speaker of the Georgia House. 214 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.200 He then took to the floor of the Georgia Legislature 215 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:32.360 and condemned me and Larry Flint. First time I've ever 216 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.480 been in such good company and I and I had 217 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.440 completely forgotten that Larry had been shot in Georgia, and 218 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:47.679 so he's always had a very problematic relationship with the state, 219 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.759 and as soon as they saw his name, they went 220 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:56.440 ballistic on both of us. And so what occurred was 221 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:01.039 that they within maybe one month of that occurring, in 222 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:05.919 March of twenty ten, they rushed through the Georgia legislature 223 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.000 some legislation called, I think it's called the Meredith Emerson 224 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:17.039 Memorial Act, which made it or rather it stopped journalists 225 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.759 and anyone else from gaining access to certain crime team photos, 226 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.000 to certain crime reports, and so they basically shut down 227 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:34.480 and from that point onward, journalists had to rely on 228 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:38.399 what was given out by the state in the Georgia 229 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:43.320 end of the case, and that's what occurred. And I 230 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.000 might add that the law was passed ex post facto, 231 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.320 which of course means that it was after the fact. 232 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.639 So they said that what I did in requesting the 233 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.279 information was against the law, when of course it wasn't 234 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:59.039 at the time. And so the information that came out 235 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:03.840 of the State of Jews was dribs and drabs, and 236 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.359 it was whatever they wanted us in the media to get. 237 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.920 And I wasn't the only one. I was not the 238 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.559 only one. This was everybody else, both in the national 239 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.079 and the international media. So if you were if you, 240 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.039 for example, were calling from the Canadian Broadcasting Service and 241 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.440 you asked for this information, they would deny it to you. 242 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:31.599 And that, I might add, is atypical for most of 243 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:35.599 the United States, most of in most of the United States, 244 00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:38.920 it's it's it's not that difficult to get this information. 245 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.359 But as they said, this is what they decided to 246 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:46.880 do in Georgia, and the law stands on the books, 247 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:52.920 and so I'm I'm partially responsible for them shutting down 248 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:55.039 on some of us. So I guess that might incur 249 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.359 the wrath of some of my fellow journalists. But all 250 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:00.480 I was doing was doing my job. And the kicker 251 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:05.920 to the story is that at the time Larry canceled 252 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:09.200 the article, so I didn't even get paid. I mean, 253 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.160 and you understand that, and I'm sure other people do. 254 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:15.359 I mean, especially you know, when you're struggling through a 255 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:20.359 recession like everybody else. Why why didn't they cancel the article? Well, 256 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:22.079 it turned out that. 257 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:29.160 What I didn't know was that with Lucky Lancelots you 258 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.240 can get lucky just about anywhere. 259 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:34.920 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 260 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:35.759 the bride and groom? 261 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:36.599 Sorry? 262 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:37.799 Sorry, we're here. 263 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:39.960 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 264 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:40.519 track of time. 265 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.079 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 266 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:45.279 quicker than a guess registered. 267 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.039 In that case, I pronounce you lucky for free. 268 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.920 Lucky Landslots dot com Dagley bonuses are waiting. No purchase 269 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.440 necessary boid. We're prohibited by Locky Team plus terms and 270 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.359 conditions of applack Sea website for details. 271 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:02.640 Okay, round two, name something that's not boring. 272 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:07.039 Laundry club, computer solitaire. 273 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:13.839 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumba casino to chum. 274 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.160 That's right, chumbacasino dot com as over one hundred casino 275 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.559 style games joined today and playing for free for your 276 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:24.680 chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum chumbacasino dot com 277 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:28.000 plus firs the conditions of Blue West I Retails. 278 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.319 Larry was in the process of trying to get crime 279 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:36.039 scene photos and again he had filed freedom of information 280 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:42.319 and it was involving a wrestler named Chris Vanoit, and 281 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.960 Vanoit had killed his family and then himself in what 282 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.960 was later judged to be a steroid rage. And this 283 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.400 was in Fulton County, Georgia, which is the Atlanta area, 284 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.400 and Larry was trying quite rightly according to the law, 285 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.000 to get photos and he was planning on running them 286 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.839 in the magazine. And Hustler does quite a bit of 287 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.759 good journalism and he wanted to run that with with 288 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.559 a story. However, they were denying him these photos. And 289 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.079 what I didn't know I just blundered right into it 290 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.759 was that this was happening at the same time as 291 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.519 I'm requesting the photos of the Emerson crime scene. And 292 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:31.000 the next thing you know, Dan, I'm getting condemned, and 293 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.839 you can look this up on the web, folks. I'm 294 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:38.200 getting condemned for wanting to publish pictures of the headless 295 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:43.799 corpse and that was never the case. And so in 296 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:48.720 order to stop the bad publicity that I was getting 297 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.880 and these individuals in Georgia from condemning me, I wrote 298 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.880 an Atlanta Journal constitution on that piece, in which I 299 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.079 explained what I was trying to do was deduce what 300 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.680 Gary's m O was, what Gary Hilton's m was, to 301 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.359 see if I could tie him into other crimes and 302 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.319 to understand what this guy was doing, because that's what 303 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.279 our job is, to understand it and to report it. 304 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.079 And I was lucky enough to be able to publish 305 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:25.279 that piece for the newspaper, and that curtailed, at least 306 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:30.160 at the time, the criticism toward me. But it was 307 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:35.599 a very very very difficult situation for me personally, and 308 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:37.720 not to mention the fact that I kept getting all 309 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.160 these phone calls in the Georgia Press on my cell 310 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.880 phone and I didn't have unlimited minutes, and the next 311 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:45.680 thing you know, I got the big cell phone bill. 312 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.519 So it was a very very very difficult situation for 313 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.480 a while. Until I got to write the book, and 314 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.039 that really helped a lot. 315 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.200 Yes, and it's the great book, Two Trails of f 316 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:05.000 You know the thing that sort of you don't downplay 317 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.920 in the book, and I can see why, but at 318 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.960 least in terms of this is interesting to a lot 319 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.960 of people at the outset of this case, Gary Michael Hilton. 320 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.759 We have not even gone into the torture van and 321 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.559 we will get into a few things here in just 322 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.640 a little bit when we revisit some of these content 323 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:38.559 that was cool Man, Yeah, well, you know, got be dramatic. 324 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:44.279 I like that, Dan cool speaking of speaking of dramatic 325 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:50.079 because we spoke about in the last interview and I'm 326 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:53.319 not really sure if you you applauded me from my 327 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:57.440 perspective on on say, uh, you know, murder and the 328 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.680 capital punishment, and we won't get back into the of course, 329 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:03.519 I just don't agree with the death penalty. But the 330 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.559 thing is that you spoke about was that Gary Michael 331 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.519 Hilton had an accident later in life that almost you 332 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.400 describe it as being scalped, and so he had this 333 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:19.640 head injury, get some type of accident, and you speak 334 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.480 about that should have been factored in to the case itself, 335 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:29.440 and that should have been seriously considered, and especially when 336 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.759 you say, you know, sixty one years old, never violent before, 337 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:34.680 and then all of a sudden he turns into this 338 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:40.799 vicious serial killer, decapitating and taking off hands. What I 339 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:48.160 wanted to talk about was is the Hollywood movie script 340 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.759 that he submitted, or the at least idea for the script. 341 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:54.720 Tell us more about that. I think that's fascinating that 342 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:58.799 this person would be actually have this movie actually happen 343 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:05.440 and be out on a release, and basically years later 344 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.079 in the area that he described in this fictional story 345 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.319 about being in Georgia, he is convicted a charge and 346 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.960 convicted of murder that actually happened in Georgia. So tell 347 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.119 us more about this deadly run and his flirtation with Hollywood. 348 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:27.599 Sure, and not only I'll preface this by saying this 349 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:31.839 is extremely timely because I don't I don't know if 350 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:35.119 we got into his appeal when I spoke to you last, 351 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:42.599 but good well, it enters into his appeal and very immediately. 352 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.000 So let me explain what happened in the nineteen nineties. 353 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:50.480 Gary and I call him Gary because I feel like 354 00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:53.680 I know him, and in writing the book, I got 355 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:58.559 friendly with and I became friends with Dino Scorfani, who 356 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.359 is his childhood friend from Highley of Florida. So and 357 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.319 Dino took me around and he showed me all the 358 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:11.279 places where they grew up. Well prior to that, when 359 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.000 Gary was seven, a murphy bed fell on his head 360 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.920 and scalped him, literally leaving him with frontal brain lobed 361 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:25.559 damage that would not be diagnosed until he was arrested 362 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.640 for these crimes. So we take it forward now into 363 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:36.200 the nineteen nineties. Gary is a former Vietnam veteran. He 364 00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:40.440 was actually in the European Theater. Well, it wouldn't be 365 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.079 the European Theater at that point, but it was in 366 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.559 the nineteen sixties and Gary Michael Hilton, the future serial 367 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.759 killer who literally had his finger on the nuclear trigger. 368 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:55.359 The United States government had deployed handheld nuclear weapons to 369 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:57.599 be fired at the East Germans if they came over 370 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.920 the horizon in West Germany. Larry was one of those 371 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.960 guys in what was known as the Davy Crockett Platoon. 372 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:10.559 Now he winds up, he winds up getting out of 373 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:16.759 the service after he has a schizophrenic, nervous breakdown. So 374 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:20.960 now we've got two positive factors here, Dan, We've got that, 375 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.240 we've got brain injury, and there's also something else which 376 00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.000 I talk about in the book. And so he winds 377 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:35.160 up in the nineteen nineties. He's a con man and 378 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:40.880 he runs various kinds of scams, usually involving something along 379 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.079 the lines. It could be anything from selling magazines to 380 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.960 homesiding or whatever it might be. And he gets arrested 381 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:54.119 on some very minor misdemeanor charge in Atlanta, the Atlanta area, 382 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.640 and he becomes friends with a man named Samuel Rail 383 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:01.920 who is an attorney, and sam Rail is producing low 384 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.880 budget films. Direct the video and Gary comes up with 385 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:12.039 the idea and what we call it's what we would 386 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.559 call the story in the movie business, and he comes 387 00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.960 up with the story for Deadly Run. And Deadly Run 388 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:20.839 is about a man from Atlanta who takes beautiful girls 389 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.880 into the distant woods, lets them go, hunts them down, 390 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:33.000 and kills them. And guess what Gary takes takes Rail 391 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.319 to this area in Georgia where he will later kill 392 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:44.680 Meredith Emerson, and this is where they shoot this film 393 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.279 in that area. So Gary writes this, Yeah, he writes 394 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.960 the story and what happens is instead of usually if 395 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.039 you write a story for a movie, you get stored 396 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.440 it says story by and then screenplay by. But apparently 397 00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:00.359 there was some sort of a deal you know all 398 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.119 above BOYD where Gary just decided to take the money 399 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.440 and so his name does not appear on the film. 400 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.960 But mister Rail has confirmed many many times in print 401 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:15.839