Speaker 1: You are listening to the Age of Transitions. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Aaron Franz. My website is the Age of Transitions dot com.
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Speaker 1: thank you for doing that everybody. Typically on Friday nights,
Speaker 1: I'm live on the Oceleradio network Ocelli dot com and
Speaker 1: this week was the same, but the beginning of this
Speaker 1: particular show got cut off. We just didn't have the
Speaker 1: recording for it. I have lots of technical difficulties going
Speaker 1: on across the web, and it's not only the ocell
Speaker 1: radio network experience experiencing this, but seems to be everywhere.
Speaker 1: So the beginning of this interview is cut off, but
Speaker 1: it's an excellent interview that I had with Gil Duran,
Speaker 1: who is an independent journalist and he runs the nerd
Speaker 1: Reich dot com, which is an excellent blog website all
Speaker 1: about the rise of the network stay the techno fascist
Speaker 1: billionaires that are going about taking over our government right now,
Speaker 1: and I was very lucky to get him as a
Speaker 1: guest at the Age of Transitions. This is an excellent interview.
Speaker 1: So right here this interview, I'm just gonna play as
Speaker 1: much as I have, and most of the interview is
Speaker 1: still here. This was right as Gil was talking about
Speaker 1: what he's doing with the nerd Reich and his plans
Speaker 1: in breaking these stories, and his plans for the future
Speaker 1: and what he wants to do, So the interview is
Speaker 1: picking up with that, and then I get into asking
Speaker 1: him questions about transhumanism and we go from there. So
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy this interview. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for listening, everybody.
Speaker 2: So the first part was to get the media to
Speaker 2: do it, and it's only happening now, right I talked
Speaker 2: to the New Yorker this morning. That podcast just went
Speaker 2: up into the New York Times right now, and so
Speaker 2: people are starting to tune in. The next part we
Speaker 2: get will be to get people to act, people in tech,
Speaker 2: people with money, people who have the resources to fight back.
Speaker 2: And so I don't plan to stop. And there's just
Speaker 2: a lot of work to do in the near future
Speaker 2: and probably in the far future as well.
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, man, there's so many things in there.
Speaker 1: First of all, that so the California Forever Community was
Speaker 1: your four a into this. I do remember you writing
Speaker 1: about that. That's fascinating right there, and I think I
Speaker 1: might want to return to that. But another thing you
Speaker 1: said in there about this being an ideology for these guys,
Speaker 1: these Silicon Valley billionaires, That's.
Speaker 3: Been an interest in mine.
Speaker 1: I've been around making commentary about the ideology of this
Speaker 1: sect for a while now. Years ago, I stumbled upon
Speaker 1: this concept of transhumanism, and this group is very much
Speaker 1: in that world. They are that world. Just briefly, have
Speaker 1: you touched on transhumanism at all? Have you seen that
Speaker 1: you're aware of that part of Definitely.
Speaker 2: I became aware early on in my research of the
Speaker 2: concept of test creel right transhumanism, extropianism, singulatariaism, cosmism, rationalism,
Speaker 2: effective altruism is it? And then what's the last one, Oh,
Speaker 2: long termism, which is kind of the most important one. Right,
Speaker 2: there's this bundle of weird culty beliefs coming out of
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, and transhumanism is this idea that we're going
Speaker 2: to merge with machines, right.
Speaker 4: And become extra human.
Speaker 2: And you've got people now going around in this Silicon
Speaker 2: Valley milieu saying they might not die, they might live
Speaker 2: for they're going to beat death and they're going to
Speaker 2: basically merge with computers in AI and you know, take
Speaker 2: special powders and drink extra version olive oil and live forever.
Speaker 2: And this sounds insane, but Google Brian Johnson, right, don't die.
Speaker 2: I call it the cult of don't die. And that's
Speaker 2: definitely something I'm looking deeper into.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I'm getting opportunities to go deeper with my work because
Speaker 2: there's a you know, suddenly paid subscribers have shut up,
Speaker 2: I should say, And that's really helped because all the
Speaker 2: work I did on this over the past year was
Speaker 2: self funded. You know, I wrote some pieces for a magazine,
Speaker 2: But I don't know if you've freelance doesn't pay much.
Speaker 2: It paid all those stories, paid about a month's worth
Speaker 2: of rent in San Francisco.
Speaker 4: But I didn't do it for money. I did it
Speaker 4: because it had to be done.
Speaker 2: And now that I have an audience showing up and
Speaker 2: I can fund, then they're they're funding my work. I
Speaker 2: plan to go deeper into some of the stuff. Back
Speaker 2: in September, this guy, Brian Johnson, you're familiar with him.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I know Brian Johnson. Yeah, the heat, the blood,
Speaker 1: the transfusions of his son's blood.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah.
Speaker 2: That and he's got some Don't Die thing and he
Speaker 2: sells this powder and claims he's got an algorithm to
Speaker 2: kind of hack longevity, which I think, according to science,
Speaker 2: is not a thing. But I went to his Don't
Speaker 2: Die conference in San Francisco and it was pretty surreal,
Speaker 2: and I took a lot of notes there and planned
Speaker 2: to write something about that, but I got into some
Speaker 2: other stuff and I got to return to that. But
Speaker 2: you know, there's some really weird stuff happening. And I
Speaker 2: went there and there's all these young people that're kind
Speaker 2: of recruiting into this, who just want to be tech
Speaker 2: millionaires or billionaires and think, if I hang out with
Speaker 2: these guys and go along with their stuff, maybe they'll
Speaker 2: I'll get in the door somehow. So there is this
Speaker 2: sort of recruitment funnel, and he's taken this thing all
Speaker 2: over the world, doing this little don't Die conference. Although
Speaker 2: the you know, there was definitely some problems. There wasn't
Speaker 2: enough food, and some of the stuff was off schedule,
Speaker 2: some of the pre It was basically a conference of
Speaker 2: people presenting weird health tech things, and some of that
Speaker 2: was kind of light, so it was a little flimsy.
Speaker 4: And but you know, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Is, you know these people are when you look at it,
Speaker 2: when you look at transhumanism and you look at cosmism
Speaker 2: and all these other isms that they're coming up with,
Speaker 2: it seems like they're really trying to form a new
Speaker 2: sort of cult religion based around tech. And like cult religion,
Speaker 2: which is something I'm very familiar with, there's some when
Speaker 2: you look closely enough and you're skeptical, you see all
Speaker 2: the seams and the flaws and the cracks, and they
Speaker 2: depend on finding worshipful people who just want to believe
Speaker 2: to go along with their bullshit, basically.
Speaker 4: Got it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, now on, I mean along these same lines and
Speaker 1: staying with the ideology concept. I have been doing this
Speaker 1: media myself in an alternative media sense, and I have
Speaker 1: definitely delved into like conspiracy theory ideas myself.
Speaker 3: These days, I try to not do that.
Speaker 1: Because I've been involved in this to the point where
Speaker 1: I've become soured on it. However, what I've noticed is
Speaker 1: that when I was first looking at transhumanism, I didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily view it as the fringe sort of very It's
Speaker 1: a fringe concept as much as any conspiracy theory, idea
Speaker 1: or community or whatever it is. And as this goes on,
Speaker 1: as these billionaires rise to power and they move forward,
Speaker 1: it becomes more and more evident to me that they
Speaker 1: themselves hold a lot of the same ideas that the
Speaker 1: sort of right wing factions of the alternative conspiracy world hold.
Speaker 1: I remember reading Andresen's let's it called the Techno Optimist Manifesto.
Speaker 1: Reading that, I'm like, this is like word for word
Speaker 1: what all the is independent conspiracy oriented people are saying.
Speaker 1: And so there, So at this point it's just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: these guys are these guys the proprietors of these ideas,
Speaker 1: and it seems like Musk is now using X to
Speaker 1: use it as a platform to platform these ideas. What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on all of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think transhumanism is not such a fringe idea.
Speaker 2: I mean, Neuralink is one of Musk's companies, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what's the idea of neuralink to merge technology directly into
Speaker 2: your brain? So they don't see it as fringe. They
Speaker 2: see it as business, they see it as the future.
Speaker 2: And after seeing what Musk has done to the algorithm
Speaker 2: of X as its main algorithm, right, his belief system,
Speaker 2: can you imagine letting that guy into your brain for
Speaker 2: any reason? Can you imagine, you know, if he can
Speaker 2: develop this capability, what it would be about, what would
Speaker 2: happen to the world? You know, So they you don't
Speaker 2: see it as fringe. And I think one advantage they
Speaker 2: have is that if you try to talk about what
Speaker 2: they're talking about, you sound crazy. But they're billionaires, right,
Speaker 2: so they can be crazy. I've actually have known personally
Speaker 2: a lot of billionaires, or at least a few and
Speaker 2: quite a few millionaires. Rich people tend to be pretty
Speaker 2: crazy and tend to be into stuff that most people
Speaker 2: wouldn't assume from the outside that they're into, and so
Speaker 2: they kind of get away with it. And one thing
Speaker 2: I've noticed that was sort of very frustrating to me
Speaker 2: as covering this was they're saying this stuff out loud.
Speaker 2: They're saying it in books, they're saying it in long
Speaker 2: podcast interviews. They're having entire conferences about this stuff where
Speaker 2: they talk about it at length and say all kinds
Speaker 2: of crazy things. But nobody's listening except the people they're
Speaker 2: trying to target, Like journalists aren't tuning in. They're just
Speaker 2: ignoring it. And when you try to explain what's going on,
Speaker 2: what's being said, people look at you like you're crazy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the most stunning things to me over the
Speaker 2: past year. I mean, before I came back to journalism
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, I had a career of seventeen years
Speaker 2: in politics. I was the spokesman for Jerry Brown when
Speaker 2: he was governor and when he was mayor of Boakland.
Speaker 2: I was the spokesman persentat de Feinstein in Washington, which
Speaker 2: she was the chair of the Intelligence Committee. I was
Speaker 2: the communications director for someone named Kamala Harris from attorney
Speaker 2: when she was the Attorney General of California. So people
Speaker 2: know who I am and that I have this solid
Speaker 2: background in real politics. But I felt like my fellow
Speaker 2: journalists all mostly with a few exceptions, ignored all of
Speaker 2: my work on this, didn't acknowledged it anyway, not even
Speaker 2: like a like on a tweet, And nobody texted me
Speaker 2: to say, hey, what's the stuff you're working on. Everybody
Speaker 2: just kind of stayed away from it right like it
Speaker 2: was crazy stuff. And I think that they're going to
Speaker 2: regret that when this story comes to the forefront and
Speaker 2: they realized that probably the biggest story in American political
Speaker 2: history to take over, the attempted hostel takeover by a
Speaker 2: handful of tech elites, bubbled up out of the Bay
Speaker 2: Area in very few people are paying attention to it.
Speaker 2: So the point there being that we do need some
Speaker 2: people focused on the weird stuff coming out of Silicon
Speaker 2: Valley because we may consider these ideas or these people crazy,
Speaker 2: but they have enough money to be very dangerous in perpetuity.
Speaker 2: And one thing I've been calling for is the creation
Speaker 2: of some kind of organization specifically to keep a watch
Speaker 2: on these things and to issue public reports and to
Speaker 2: create media narratives and other products to shine a bright
Speaker 2: light on this stuff, because I think that's exposing it
Speaker 2: is a very important key to defeating it.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now let's return to California Forever, because it's fascinating
Speaker 1: and there's so much going on there. It's a swath
Speaker 1: of land, as you said, up north of San Francisco.
Speaker 1: It's pretty much like at first class, it kind of
Speaker 1: looks like any sort of big developer coming in developing
Speaker 1: a some sort of planned community or a housing tract
Speaker 1: or something. But it's much more than that, right, would
Speaker 1: you like to describe this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, California Forever. Well, for years, for a period
Speaker 2: of five years, some group was secretly buying up land
Speaker 2: in rural Solano County, which a lot of the land
Speaker 2: they were buying up was farmland or pasture land way
Speaker 2: out in the middle of this very rural area of
Speaker 2: a county. And when it finally came to light that
Speaker 2: it was this group called California Forever, it was unveiled
Speaker 2: that they had plans to PLoP this four hundred thousand
Speaker 2: person city down in the middle of those rural farmlands.
Speaker 2: And this was a big problem because that would make
Speaker 2: it the largest city in the county, I believe. And
Speaker 2: this is a county where they have a slow growth
Speaker 2: ordinance that strictly forbids exactly the kind of massive expansion
Speaker 2: that was being called for here. So you're picking this
Speaker 2: fight with a county where they have rules against this,
Speaker 2: and you suddenly want to create a new city that
Speaker 2: would be the biggest city. Not to mention the strain
Speaker 2: on the environment, there's not enough water or other resources.
Speaker 2: And in addition, the traffic is already horrible through this region
Speaker 2: on the one main interstate, So you're going to add
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand more people. It's not clear where you're
Speaker 2: going to build a new freeways in order to make this.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of ways in which this project
Speaker 2: didn't make sense, but the media was largely covering it
Speaker 2: as debate between the Yimbis who want to build and
Speaker 2: the Nimbi's who don't want to build. And that's the
Speaker 2: frame they got stuck in. That's the frame they're used to.
Speaker 2: But you know, it didn't make sense that something this
Speaker 2: dramatic would be proposed by this group of billionaires. And
Speaker 2: to be honest, I wasn't really closely paying attention to it.
Speaker 2: And it was only after I read a review of
Speaker 2: Quinn Slavonian's Crack Up Capitalism book and got the book
Speaker 2: and read it that I immediately understood what this was,
Speaker 2: which was an attempt to create a tech controlled zone
Speaker 2: where it would be a new city with different rules
Speaker 2: and you know, kind of a sovereign form of territory,
Speaker 2: and that basically it was aligned with the network state.
Speaker 2: And the deeper I looked, I found that, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the major investors is Mark Endresen of Nresent Horowitz,
Speaker 2: a big venture capital firm in California, and the guy
Speaker 2: who's the main network state evangelist, a guy named Balaji Srinivasan,
Speaker 2: was a former general partner at Andresent Horowitz. And I
Speaker 2: started seeing all these connections and realizing that's what it was.
Speaker 2: And as I did deeper, it came to my attention
Speaker 2: that there had been a Network State conference in Amsterdam
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and at that conference, six hours
Speaker 2: of people talking about plans to create network states all
Speaker 2: over the world, their own tech little cities and countries
Speaker 2: they're going to control. There was a presentation given by
Speaker 2: a guy named Spencer MacDonald, who's some kind of security expert,
Speaker 2: and the presentation was about how to have good security
Speaker 2: or new network state, you know, basically higher former Special
Speaker 2: Operations soldiers and have surveillance and drones and all this
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So they're already planning for security for
Speaker 2: these things, right, They're pretty serious about it. But in
Speaker 2: his presentation, it was a slide on the screen and
Speaker 2: it was an artist rendering of California Forever, and I
Speaker 2: was like, well, that's interesting. They're basically identifying that project
Speaker 2: at the Network State conference as part of the Network State.
Speaker 4: And as I dug deeper, I found an interview with.
Speaker 2: Bology screen of Boston, like a six hour podcast interview.
Speaker 2: You know, the these tech bros like to go and
Speaker 2: talk for six hours for me, thirty minutes and hours
Speaker 2: pushing it, you know, but six hours straight they go.
Speaker 2: In that six hour talk, which I have painstaken listen
Speaker 2: to and transcribed, he says, you know that we already
Speaker 2: have a project underway on bear Land in northern California.
Speaker 2: And he doesn't go further than that. He sort of
Speaker 2: hints at it. But you know, I felt that that
Speaker 2: was enough of an easter egg or wink and they
Speaker 2: deny it. They completely deny that there's any connection at all, etc.
Speaker 4: But it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: There's no pattern it fits except for the network state
Speaker 2: cult ideology. And what happened was that the people of
Speaker 2: Solano County were so against this project, Republicans and Democrats.
Speaker 2: It was a I call it the miracle in Solano County.
Speaker 2: Someone found a way to unite Republicans and Democrats in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and it was reuniting them against this
Speaker 2: weird ass billionaire city project. And it was clear that
Speaker 2: they tried to put a ballot measure on to get
Speaker 2: the project approved that it was clear that it was
Speaker 2: going to go down in massive defeat.
Speaker 4: So they pulled it from the.
Speaker 2: Ballot last year, which was a temporary win because now
Speaker 2: they're trying all these other sneaky things to get in there.
Speaker 2: And you know, Trump is threatening to build ten so
Speaker 2: called freedom Cities around the country, and that's definitely the
Speaker 2: network State. I have a new video up on the
Speaker 2: nerd Reich YouTube channel explaining this in five minutes, and
Speaker 2: I would not be surprised if the Trump administration finds
Speaker 2: a way to force this on the people of Solano
Speaker 2: County if they have to.
Speaker 1: Okay, now, this is all interesting because it sounds like
Speaker 1: California forever. Was it itself a development to be a billionaire
Speaker 1: enclave sort of like the ones out here in Palm
Speaker 1: Springs near me?
Speaker 3: Or was this.
Speaker 1: A test for housing for the masses, which is what
Speaker 1: my vision of the Freedom City is. Is there a difference?
Speaker 1: Is there a difference between the two?
Speaker 3: Is that what it was?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, I think what they see is they're claiming it's
Speaker 2: housing in California needs housing, But this is the most
Speaker 2: expensive and destructive way to build it. Obviously, what you
Speaker 2: want to do is build onto an existing city where
Speaker 2: we already have the infrastructure you need.
Speaker 4: This is bear Land.
Speaker 2: This is going to require a massive effort to create
Speaker 2: these houses, and it's going to be expensive to do that.
Speaker 2: So it's not building affordable housing. When you build new
Speaker 2: you're building the most expensive housing that there's going to
Speaker 2: be for a while.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: But I think what they have in mind they mentioned
Speaker 2: in their plan the idea to apply for special kind
Speaker 2: of economic status, and I think that's the gateway into
Speaker 2: trying to find his zone, as Trump is talking about now,
Speaker 2: with the Freedom cities where the usual rules don't apply.
Speaker 2: You'll be free from the regulations of California and the
Speaker 2: United States. You'll be free from the usual tax regime,
Speaker 2: maybe not have any taxes at all. We've seen that
Speaker 2: model around the world. And you'll be free from certain
Speaker 2: kinds of regulations, perhaps run medical testing, which seems to
Speaker 2: be something. These guys are really interested in escaping the
Speaker 2: FDA and not being bound by its rules. Peter Tiil
Speaker 2: in particular is very interested in taking control of the FDA,
Speaker 2: and in fact, in twenty seventeen he proposed a candidate
Speaker 2: to Trump to be the head of the FDA, and
Speaker 2: that candidate was Boligishrina Vasen, the whole guy who wro
Speaker 2: the Network State book and is the main evangelist of
Speaker 2: the Network State idea. So I think that is ultimately
Speaker 2: the goal, and they were trying to frame it as
Speaker 2: an innocuous housing project, but anybody familiar with housing knows
Speaker 2: that there's nothing about this that makes sense. In fact,
Speaker 2: there was a quote from a developer of housing in
Speaker 2: California and the New York Times when the story first
Speaker 2: came out, who said, no one who knows how to
Speaker 2: do housing would try to do it in this way.
Speaker 2: So there's all these things that don't add up. So
Speaker 2: I think they do plan to have people there, but
Speaker 2: I think the idea is to have a hierarchical society
Speaker 2: that is controlled by a corporation, not by a democratic government.
Speaker 4: These are corporate towns, you know.
Speaker 2: I call them corporate dystopias, because what they're really trying
Speaker 2: to do is solve a problem that doesn't exist. The
Speaker 2: problem in our lives isn't that we have We don't
Speaker 2: have enough corporate control and intrusion, right, And that's the
Speaker 2: problem that they seem to think is the one that
Speaker 2: needs to be solved by these weird ideas. And so
Speaker 2: I don't know that they're really trying to build housing
Speaker 2: for the masses. It seems to me they're trying to
Speaker 2: build basically like bunker societies where they can escape. Remember,
Speaker 2: part of this whole idea is that we're headed towards
Speaker 2: some kind of major societal collapse and that nation states
Speaker 2: are not going to survive that, and that they, as
Speaker 2: the cognitive elite, need to prepare for that change and
Speaker 2: protect themselves and create these sort of digital surveillance castle
Speaker 2: societies where they and their crypto and their empires will
Speaker 2: be safe. And that trace us back to a book
Speaker 2: called The Sovereign Individual.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is fascinating because it gets into the concept
Speaker 1: of like the prepper movement even absolutely yeah, and these
Speaker 1: guys are the ultimate preppers. And what you're saying is
Speaker 1: they they absolutely believe this, and it makes sense like
Speaker 1: these are the guys that buy the luxury bunkers that
Speaker 1: we've all read about. Right, So this isn't just something
Speaker 1: that this goes back to again fringe conspiracy ideas where
Speaker 1: the prepper sort of concept was seen as whackerdoodle and
Speaker 1: crazy and this coming collapse was something that everybody would
Speaker 1: always talk about and definitely in the realm of the
Speaker 1: fringe conspiratorial like, oh yes, societal collapse, the country's going
Speaker 1: to fall apart. That was the ramblings of a crazy
Speaker 1: person once again. But what you're saying is that these
Speaker 1: guys believe this, right, they very much believe it. They're
Speaker 1: not just like pretending for the public. They're serious about it, right, totally.
Speaker 2: This has become a thing, you know, the prepper thing
Speaker 2: has gotten a little wider than fringe.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I know more than one multi millionaire who has their
Speaker 2: little cash and stash and their their secret place, you know,
Speaker 2: if you can afford it. And it seems like it's
Speaker 2: become a luxury item, is to have your little bunker.
Speaker 2: And it's a very apocalyptic feeling movement. And they know
Speaker 2: it's not like you're totally wrong. Like the climate change
Speaker 2: we know is going to cause a trimanous amount of
Speaker 2: destruct and migration, and we're not dealing with that in
Speaker 2: the way that we should be. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: things that could go wrong and that are already going wrong.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at what's become of you know, certain
Speaker 2: parts of San Francisco and all over California. The homelessness
Speaker 2: wasn't like this twenty years ago, where you have tin
Speaker 2: cities everywhere. We're already seeing some decline. But instead of
Speaker 2: seeing this as a problem that they might try to
Speaker 2: solve with their technology and their wealth and their much
Speaker 2: vaunted intelligence, they seem to want to hasten decline and
Speaker 2: to somehow benefit and profit from it, which seems deeply
Speaker 2: immoral to me. And you know, I think it's important
Speaker 2: to understand that this is the mentality they have, is
Speaker 2: this apocalyptic. It's almost like a millenarian movement. We always
Speaker 2: have these end times movements for the past two thousand years,
Speaker 2: where people think the end's about to happen and we
Speaker 2: all have to prepare and we have to, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of get behind some big idea and you know,
Speaker 2: the end is nigh and in a way, it's just that,
Speaker 2: but with billionaires, and it's not the first time we've
Speaker 2: seen it. But you know, the aggression with which it's
Speaker 2: being pursued, especially in the takeover of the US government,
Speaker 2: is I think unprecedented.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, go ahead, please continue.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was going to say that, I should say
Speaker 2: part of the network state idea is one part of
Speaker 2: it is to build these new territories and cities. They
Speaker 2: call that exit, when you exit an existing society and
Speaker 2: create a new society. But another form they have, which
Speaker 2: they stole from a guy named Albert Hirschman who wasn't
Speaker 2: involved in the stuff at all. They like to steal
Speaker 2: other people's ideas and reformulate them. That's kind of the
Speaker 2: whole thing about Silicon Valley, isn't it. The other part
Speaker 2: is called voice and voices, where you stay and you
Speaker 2: use your voice and your power to.
Speaker 4: Take over an existing government.
Speaker 2: And that's pretty much what they're doing right now in Washington,
Speaker 2: right They've been talking about it for years. And you know,
Speaker 2: two years ago, this guy named Curtis Jarvin, who's been
Speaker 2: a very favorite thinker of Peter Thiel's, wrote a whole
Speaker 2: essay in which he said that if Trump got re elected,
Speaker 2: what he should do is hire a sort of CEO
Speaker 2: to be the dictator of the federal government and to
Speaker 2: operate outside of the authority and the law and the rules,
Speaker 2: and to purge government of anybody who wouldn't be loyal
Speaker 2: to the dictator, and that this was the important move
Speaker 2: to make. They called it a butterfly revolution, and it
Speaker 2: sounds a lot like exactly what's going on right now
Speaker 2: in Washington. So there's two modes. One is to create
Speaker 2: these new cities. The other is to seize existing governments
Speaker 2: and turn them into parallel versions of themselves. And they're
Speaker 2: kind of pursuing both right now, using their control of
Speaker 2: the government to try to hasten the creation of these
Speaker 2: freedom cities and accelerate their birth into the world. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, when I look at that, people are kind
Speaker 2: of Trump had these freedom cities in his agenda last year.
Speaker 2: His campaign plan and it was mentioned in news stories
Speaker 2: and nobody explained what it meant. Nobody said, what the
Speaker 2: hell is a freedom city? Yeah, where's the idea come from?
Speaker 2: Why do we need them? Who's going to live in them?
Speaker 2: How's it going to work?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: Why who called for this?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: And they still haven't explained it. It's like, okay, I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like if Kamala Harris had said I'm going
Speaker 2: to build ten new freedom cities, everybody would have been
Speaker 2: on it with investigative teams and telling everybody how weird
Speaker 2: it is and how it seemed to come from this
Speaker 2: weird Coltish movement called the Network State.
Speaker 4: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be too bitter about it, because
Speaker 2: people are now tuning in. But there's been a massive
Speaker 2: abdication by the mainstream media on this. And I speak
Speaker 2: as someone who wanted to be a newspaper man since
Speaker 2: I was in the fifth grade, And you know, it's
Speaker 2: been very depressing to see the limitations on it because
Speaker 2: our democracy is imperiled right now, and the job of
Speaker 2: the press is to protect that democracy, not to be
Speaker 2: ignorant of reality or to try to be neutral in
Speaker 2: the face of fascism.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Now the media angle to me is endlessly fascinating as
Speaker 1: well in this because you have, as you said, the
Speaker 1: old guard standard news outlets that we knew of seem
Speaker 1: to be passing away now seem to be being discarded,
Speaker 1: seems to be being targeted outright by this regime which
Speaker 1: has been bought and paid for by these big tech guys.
Speaker 1: So it's the interplay between the propagandistic use of social media.
Speaker 1: Online media, formerly alternative channels for media is very much
Speaker 1: the platform that this sect owns and operates, right, So
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on the propaganda angle of social media,
Speaker 1: of online media being.
Speaker 3: Used to sell this new.
Speaker 1: Project of government which which these guys are clearly a
Speaker 1: part of.
Speaker 3: What's going on with that.
Speaker 2: Well, they talk about it in terms of something they
Speaker 2: call fifth generation warfare, which is that you no longer
Speaker 2: need soldiers and armies necessarily, you just need to control perception.
Speaker 2: And how do you control perception, Well, you control the
Speaker 2: mediums of communication, you control the algorithms that decide what
Speaker 2: people see and what people hear. You buy up traditional
Speaker 2: media outlets, and you make the news into something that
Speaker 2: is the opposite of what it used to be and
Speaker 2: we see all of that happening right now, and I
Speaker 2: haven't seen anybody in the mainstream media mention, you know,
Speaker 2: fifth generation warfare five GW.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that sounds like some weird
Speaker 2: conspiracy stuff off the internet, right You say something like
Speaker 2: that and suddenly you're in a tin hat looking for UFOs.
Speaker 4: But they talk about it very openly.
Speaker 2: And one thing that's interesting to me I mentioned earlier
Speaker 2: the Network State conference, and at the first one in
Speaker 2: twenty three in Amsterdam, there was when that Spencer guy,
Speaker 2: Spencer MacDonald gave the presentation We're California Forever flashed on
Speaker 2: the screen for a minute. He ended his talk by
Speaker 2: urging people to read somebody named John rob jo Hen Robb.
Speaker 2: And John Robb is a military analyst who seems to
Speaker 2: be pretty highly respected. It's been quoted in The New
Speaker 2: York Times and Wired for decades. He's an expert on
Speaker 2: the future of warfare. And I started reading his newsletter
Speaker 2: on substack. It's five bucks a month, not the kind
Speaker 2: of thing I'd usually subscribe to, but it's opposition research.
Speaker 2: Got to know what they're saying, and he writes very
Speaker 2: openly about this stuff you know about information war and
Speaker 2: how it's being waged. And in fact, a few weeks
Speaker 2: ago he wrote a whole analysis of what Elon is
Speaker 2: doing to the govern and he basically said, this is
Speaker 2: a prototype of the network state, and he explained all
Speaker 2: the ways in which it's designed to basically replace people
Speaker 2: with AI and create an entirely new form of government
Speaker 2: that's more effective for the twenty first century.
Speaker 4: And he also then pointed out all the vulnerabilities in
Speaker 4: the current project.
Speaker 2: Sorry, and so that's what they're doing, right, They're trying
Speaker 2: to control perception. And at the end of you know,
Speaker 2: I mentioned a few moments ago, Curtis Jarvin wrote this
Speaker 2: piece saying that Trump should have a dictator CEO takeover. Well,
Speaker 2: after you take over the government, purge it, have your
Speaker 2: loyalists in control, then you have to start taking over
Speaker 2: the centers of influence, the media academia, which they're currently
Speaker 2: attacking right, threatening to defund universities in the United States
Speaker 2: of America, right to pressure them to bow down to
Speaker 2: the right wing religion. They're becoming increasingly religious in their
Speaker 2: use of language and trying to meld with the Christian
Speaker 2: evangelical right wing and if you control all of those
Speaker 2: very influential institutions, then you can start to replace reality
Speaker 2: itself with a parallel version of reality, basically an unreality.
Speaker 2: And this is something that fascist and authoritarian regimes always do.
Speaker 2: They make it impossible for people to know what's true
Speaker 2: and what's false and condition them to only accept what
Speaker 2: the government says as the truth. And that's very much
Speaker 2: what they're trying to do with this. So it doesn't
Speaker 2: just stop it taking over the government at purging the
Speaker 2: bureaucracy and the public institutions. It involves also taking power
Speaker 2: over all of the influential institutions in society, and they
Speaker 2: do that through fifth generation warfare. And then they have
Speaker 2: an even bigger tool. Right when you can use the
Speaker 2: media or academia to spread your propaganda and disinformation, it
Speaker 2: becomes impervious to some degree. And so if any of
Speaker 2: your listeners haven't heard of fifth generation warfare, I would
Speaker 2: encourage them to look it up. It may not be
Speaker 2: the term we all need to use, but it's important
Speaker 2: to understand that they perceive this to be a propaganda war,
Speaker 2: a disinformation war, a war in which the most powerful element,
Speaker 2: the most powerful weapon, is information.
Speaker 4: And controlling perception, and.
Speaker 2: I think more of us need to be talking about
Speaker 2: that and talking about what we're going to do about it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah, So.
Speaker 1: This is something I want to get your opinion on
Speaker 1: because I know you have a piece that gets into
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and his It was about his takeover of Twitter,
Speaker 1: it becoming acts, and then his promotion of certain Russian propaganda.
Speaker 1: I know this is a different direction, but clearly I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what your opinion on the dissemination of Russian
Speaker 1: propaganda on these social media outlets is. But for me personally,
Speaker 1: it seems like it's given priority. It's definitely there. It's suspicious.
Speaker 1: I don't know all the ins and outs of it.
Speaker 1: I know it's happening. What, in your opinion, might be
Speaker 1: going on with these guys and using their social media
Speaker 1: platforms to put out what would be Russian government talking points?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about that? What's the connection between
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and Russia?
Speaker 3: Is there one? What's going on there?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's all just a big coincidence that all
Speaker 2: the right wing in recent years in Silicon Valley guys
Speaker 2: are all about Russia and all for Russia. Nothing to
Speaker 2: it right, nothing to see here, it's just you know, happenstance, coincidence.
Speaker 2: Obviously there's something going on there, right, and we don't
Speaker 2: know exactly the depth of it. I mean, the Mule Report,
Speaker 2: which the right wing is portrayed as a failure of
Speaker 2: some kind, definitely found that Russia had intervened to try
Speaker 2: to get Trump elected.
Speaker 4: It's clear why they would do that.
Speaker 2: You don't have to believe that Trump is on the
Speaker 2: KGB payroll or FSB payroll, I should say, to think
Speaker 2: that they would want to see our country destabilized by
Speaker 2: putting a reality TV clown in charge of the White House, right,
Speaker 2: That's easy, you know. And so I am not the
Speaker 2: expert on that topic. I know some people who go
Speaker 2: much deeper into it and who think that it's the
Speaker 2: key to everything. I would say, at the very least
Speaker 2: Republicans who've always wanted to run government like a business,
Speaker 2: or so they say, and the Silicon Valley guys see
Speaker 2: the kleptocracy and oligarchy of Russia as a preferred form
Speaker 2: of governance. And there's an important book I read last
Speaker 2: year by Anne Applebomb called Autocracy, Inc. And it looks
Speaker 2: at how these autocratic governments all over the world, even
Speaker 2: those who have nothing in common ideologically, they may be
Speaker 2: diametrically opposed to each other in terms of ideology, have
Speaker 2: begun to work together and share technology and information in
Speaker 2: order to basically improve the efficiency of authoritarianism around the globe.
Speaker 2: They've kind of formed a basically a supervillain alliance, and
Speaker 2: they're not so much concerned with taking over the entire
Speaker 2: world themselves as they are at making sure that autocracy
Speaker 2: spreads around the globe, and they keep their power by
Speaker 2: helping others keep their autocratic power at the very least.
Speaker 2: I think that Trump and the tech fascists see that
Speaker 2: as the preferred form of government. It benefits them the most,
Speaker 2: and so I think they have a lot in common
Speaker 2: with Putin and with Russia, because they want our government
Speaker 2: to work the way that one does, where you have
Speaker 2: a handful of oligarchs around a dictator, a pretend democracy,
Speaker 2: where everyone's too afraid to say what they really think,
Speaker 2: and journalists get shot in the face if they cause trouble,
Speaker 2: and you don't have to go full on totalitarian to
Speaker 2: gain great control over society that's supposed to be democratic,
Speaker 2: and to scare anybody from resisting that. And so I
Speaker 2: think that the Russia model where putin wins with what
Speaker 2: eighty percent of the votes or whatever, is very much
Speaker 2: seen as as a success in terms of how you
Speaker 2: pull off an ontocracy in what is supposed to be
Speaker 2: a democracy. So at the very least that, at the
Speaker 2: very worst, there's something much more nefarious going on. There's
Speaker 2: been you know, you can google Project Russia and see
Speaker 2: that there's some advance thinking on a more detailed alliance
Speaker 2: that's more formal. But I'm not the expert on that subject,
Speaker 2: so I won't go too deep into it. I've gone
Speaker 2: deep enough into certain subjects and that's my part of
Speaker 2: the job here.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, Yeah, that's something that I'm trying
Speaker 1: to work out personally what the ins and outs may
Speaker 1: be of that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, very fair there.
Speaker 1: What about Okay, so we understand this is fifth generation warfare,
Speaker 1: it's an information war. There's a war on for your mind.
Speaker 1: As they say, right, what are we to do with
Speaker 1: the people who are just regular people who don't mean
Speaker 1: who mean well, but they're completely wrapped up and caught
Speaker 1: away with the propaganda aspects of this where they believe
Speaker 1: in this new regime. They believe that Trump is totally
Speaker 1: in control. He's making the government better as sold it's Musk,
Speaker 1: his captain is coming in making government efficient. This is great,
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan, and he'd shed a tear if you were
Speaker 1: here today. I love it, clearly, And it's hard to
Speaker 1: tell how much of the population is still on board.
Speaker 1: It seems like those people are They're losing supporters all
Speaker 1: the time. It seems like because this is getting more
Speaker 1: and more obvious as each second goes by, that I
Speaker 1: guess that would be the question, are people actually do
Speaker 1: you think that people who were supporters are starting to
Speaker 1: turn away? And maybe that's a ray of hope. What
Speaker 1: do we do about people who are really sucked into this?
Speaker 1: Do we not do anything? What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2: Well, Trump's pull numbers are going down and Musks are
Speaker 2: going down precipitously. I think this ends with Musk as
Speaker 2: the most hated man in the world, which is ironic
Speaker 2: because he wants to be the most beloved man in
Speaker 2: the world. Right This almost like a Greek myth of
Speaker 2: a boy who wanted to be the most loved boy
Speaker 2: in the world, and so he does everything he can
Speaker 2: to become the most hated man in the world, and
Speaker 2: so they are vulnerable. They're not impervious yet to these failures.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at these guys are driving the stock
Speaker 2: market into the gutter, and you know, veterans are being fired.
Speaker 2: You've got Republicans already showing up the town halls and
Speaker 2: screaming at their representatives for what's happening. And there was
Speaker 2: just a pull a focus group of Michigan swing voters
Speaker 2: who deeply regret voting for Trump and despise what he's
Speaker 2: doing now. Right, So there's some political fertility there, and
Speaker 2: too bad we don't have a functioning opposition party that
Speaker 2: could take advantage of any of that. The Democratic Party
Speaker 2: mostly seems to be hiding under a rock these days,
Speaker 2: and they seemed to be the impression that people will
Speaker 2: just decide it's bad and come around and be against Trump.
Speaker 2: But I do think think that they're very rapidly burning
Speaker 2: through their political capital. But they don't seem to care.
Speaker 2: And that's what worries me. They don't seem to care.
Speaker 2: You know, I spent, like I said, seventeen years in politics.
Speaker 2: If somebody's driving down the poll numbers, they're gone. Right,
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who they are, even if you've been
Speaker 2: with them a long time a staffer, you get rid
Speaker 2: of that, you cut off the dead weight, and that's
Speaker 2: not what's happening. Instead, they're sort of pursuing their project,
Speaker 2: not with the logic of politicians, but with the logic
Speaker 2: of suicide bombers. They don't seem to care about the future.
Speaker 2: They don't seem to believe there'll be any accountability, and
Speaker 2: that worries me because I think, you know, if I
Speaker 2: put myself into their evil minds, one of the things
Speaker 2: I would do would be to start raising real doubts,
Speaker 2: sowing real doubts about the electoral system and electoral integrity,
Speaker 2: and using the power of the government to do that
Speaker 2: and call into question whether elections are fair and free
Speaker 2: or whether we need some other process for deciding who's
Speaker 2: in charge. At this point, I don't put anything past them.
Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because I do
Speaker 2: not understand, as somebody who had a very successful career
Speaker 2: in politics, who helped to win a bunch of campaigns
Speaker 2: people thought were unwinnable, I don't understand why they're don't
Speaker 2: care about public perception, don't care about popularity, don't care
Speaker 2: about the stock market, don't care about the economy. This
Speaker 2: is suicidal unless they know something that we don't. And
Speaker 2: so I think that the sooner people get active and
Speaker 2: start pushing back, you know, pushing pushing our leaders to
Speaker 2: act to resist, which they're not doing. And I think
Speaker 2: at some point it's going to take millions of people
Speaker 2: taking to the streets on a regular basis to show
Speaker 2: our great rejection of this new form of government they're
Speaker 2: trying to impose. I think that has to happen very
Speaker 2: quickly so that they don't think they can get away
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now do you believe that this regime might see
Speaker 1: that coming? I know Trump, ever since I remember him
Speaker 1: running for president, to me, something that stood out is
Speaker 1: his just, uh lust for wanting to quash any opposition whatsoever.
Speaker 1: He was always like excited when some somebody'd start protesting
Speaker 1: at a rally or something and security you come in,
Speaker 1: you get all jazzed about that, saying beat him up
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And it's just always calling for right.
Speaker 1: Jack boot tactics. So I don't know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's just wild to see do we do we all
Speaker 1: want to learn the hard way. I'm throwing like sort
Speaker 1: of odd questions at you here, but like, what what
Speaker 1: is this? Like how it's a big question. It's not
Speaker 1: maybe even a question, but like, do we have we
Speaker 1: made it to the point where we have to learn
Speaker 1: the hard way?
Speaker 4: Apparently so?
Speaker 2: But I think you know, how hard the lesson is
Speaker 2: depends on what people do now and what our leaders do,
Speaker 2: but also what we force our leaders to do. And
Speaker 2: I think Trump will go as far I should say
Speaker 2: President Musk will go as far as he's allowed to go, right,
Speaker 2: And we had to put a hard line down real
Speaker 2: quick and make it clear this is going to be
Speaker 2: a fight, and this is going to be a moral battle,
Speaker 2: a spiritual and moral battle for the future of our country,
Speaker 2: imperfect as it may be. Nobody voted to have it
Speaker 2: destroyed by a handful of foreign born billionaires, And no
Speaker 2: one voted to have the entire government just completely gutted
Speaker 2: and destroyed in this fashion and replaced with AI systems
Speaker 2: that would suck up all of our data and invade
Speaker 2: everyone's privacy and try to create the Big Brother out
Speaker 2: of Warwell, you know, in many ways, these guys are
Speaker 2: trying to be the villains from science fiction. They're trying
Speaker 2: to you know, they seem to sympathize with the villains
Speaker 2: and all the science fiction narratives, and they're trying to
Speaker 2: reverse engineer their way to that dystopia. And so I
Speaker 2: think that, you know, it's a very old narrative. Most
Speaker 2: of human history is a small group of elites trying
Speaker 2: to tyrannize the majority of the people, and it usually
Speaker 2: doesn't end well for the tyrants. There are a lot
Speaker 2: more of us than there are of them, and so
Speaker 2: I think people are probably feeling afraid right now.
Speaker 4: They don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: But we have to realize how much power we have,
Speaker 2: especially collectively, and studies show that it doesn't take a
Speaker 2: large percentage of people to be out in the streets
Speaker 2: and to be out protesting and finding other ways to
Speaker 2: revolt that, you know, with a small percentage of public visibility,
Speaker 2: no authoritarian regime generally can withstand it. And when I
Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of traveling recently, when I
Speaker 2: look out the window or I go through a town
Speaker 2: like Portland or San Francisco or New York, there's a
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of wealth and power that has been accrued
Speaker 2: and amassed here by millions of Americans for generations.
Speaker 4: Generations.
Speaker 2: We all built this, right, If everybody in all those
Speaker 2: houses and all those buildings decides to do something about it,
Speaker 2: it's going to be pretty formidable. It's going to care
Speaker 2: of the hell out of people who are trying to
Speaker 2: deshore our government. I think the story could very well
Speaker 2: end with a bunch of billionaires and a few fake
Speaker 2: billionaires getting on planes to Moscow.
Speaker 4: In the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know, when simple boycotts are being deemed
Speaker 1: as illegal, that seems like grasping at straws, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they cannot really do that. This is part of
Speaker 2: what this is too. It's important to mock Trump and
Speaker 2: to realize that Trump is weak. That's why he wants
Speaker 2: to sound strong, like the bully who goes around acting
Speaker 2: tough but falls down the first time he gets punched.
Speaker 2: Trump needs to look strong to his base. In reality,
Speaker 2: Trump is bought. Trump is not even the president. Trump
Speaker 2: is this flunky for the wealthiest man in the world, right,
Speaker 2: So people need to not be tripped out by.
Speaker 4: The idea that he can do all of these things.
Speaker 2: He's putting on a show of strength to mask his weakness.
Speaker 2: I think that's one way to look at you know,
Speaker 2: go ahead, you know, a lot of us have to
Speaker 2: be if you want to put people in jail, Let's
Speaker 2: go to jail. Let's go to prison. Right, Let's do
Speaker 2: whatever you want to do. Because the deeper that you
Speaker 2: dig this hole, the more accountable will hold you later.
Speaker 2: That needs to be the mentality. We have the power
Speaker 2: in government, not a handful of people who decided, you know,
Speaker 2: barely one by one percent. Right, it was a close race.
Speaker 2: It wasn't like, oh wow, American landslide for a fascist takeover.
Speaker 2: This is a very slim race. Remember, we don't need everybody.
Speaker 2: We don't need the MAGA base. We just need those
Speaker 2: people who kind of vote either way and the people
Speaker 2: who mostly we need the people who stayed home. And
Speaker 2: when you can't buy eggs and when every the prices
Speaker 2: everything's going up and you're worried that we're going to
Speaker 2: head into a depression or at least a deeper session,
Speaker 2: that's the kind of thing that gets people motivated, and
Speaker 2: that's what they're doing right now. You know, I went
Speaker 2: to Trader Joe's yesterday and I was in there trying
Speaker 2: to buy eggs, and the clerk told me I had
Speaker 2: two dozen, you can only buy one dozen by two,
Speaker 2: Like we're already at rationing eggs. This is insane, But
Speaker 2: you know, I felt lucky because for the past month
Speaker 2: or two, Trader Joe's hasn't had any eggs, so people
Speaker 2: are feeling it. Remember this election was supposedly one because
Speaker 2: of eggs, right, This is one of the superficial narratives.
Speaker 2: The media likes to tell itself that, oh, the price
Speaker 2: of eggs was too high, that's why. Well look at now,
Speaker 2: why isn't anybody talking about the fact that, like, you
Speaker 2: can't buy eggs or they're being rationed again. The media
Speaker 2: tends to play tends to give the Trump types of
Speaker 2: pass and hold the Democrats highly accountable, mostly because the
Speaker 2: Republicans have normalized complete insanity and corruption, and so it's
Speaker 2: not considered news that they lie and they steal, only cheat.
Speaker 2: It's only news if the Democrats do it. Not the
Speaker 2: Democrats are perfect. But you know, we haven't seen the
Speaker 2: Democrats try to overthrow the country yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now we're getting towards the end of the show, but
Speaker 1: I want to hit this topic. It might be a
Speaker 1: bit much, but just the concepts that AI. This takeover
Speaker 1: by doge of the government is very much to do
Speaker 1: with putting AI systems in there and replacing humans way
Speaker 1: with AI.
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we seem to be seeing now. Wired
Speaker 2: had a story about this a couple of days ago.
Speaker 2: The idea is to you know, Elon was losing the
Speaker 2: AI race and now.
Speaker 4: He's got access to the federal government.
Speaker 2: And what happens if you have an AI system that
Speaker 2: hoovers up all of the data that the federal government has,
Speaker 2: becomes the most powerful AI system in the world.
Speaker 4: And I think.
Speaker 2: That's what Elon thinks he paid for when he bought
Speaker 2: Donald Trump part of it at least.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I it makes sense to me. Okay, Gil Duran,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming here. It's the Nerdreich
Speaker 1: dot com. Is that correct, that's a website, Nerdreich dot com.
Speaker 1: Any interesting things coming up of the podcast or any
Speaker 1: pieces that you're working on that that you would like
Speaker 1: to let people know about.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier John Robb, who is the military analyst
Speaker 2: who said we're in the middle of a network state
Speaker 2: takeover and thinks that's a good thing and said there
Speaker 2: were some vulnerabilities. I'm working on a piece that puts
Speaker 2: on my political communications hat. I examined the vulnerabilities, and
Speaker 2: I sketch out a basic game plan for how we
Speaker 2: start attacking based on his analysis. So that'll be my
Speaker 2: next little exercise coming up Monday at the nerdreich dot com.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 1: That sounds exciting, Gil Duran, this has been this has
Speaker 1: been great. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 1: I will just say that uncle, the podcast is coming
Speaker 1: up next. You could stay on if you want to,
Speaker 1: but would you like to stay for that or you
Speaker 1: gotta get going.
Speaker 2: I gotta get going. I've been doing too much talking lately.
Speaker 2: I gotta go read a book or something.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, sounds great. Thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: on that. If I'm lucky, maybe I can have you
Speaker 1: back on the show again. This is This has been awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sure anytime. Thank you, and thanks for being
Speaker 2: interested early on when a lot of people weren't.
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, well yeah, no problem, man, I'm glad
Speaker 1: that you noticed that.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 1: As I said, I've been looking at this kind of
Speaker 1: thing for a long time now and and just the
Speaker 1: lack of discussion for so many years just boggled my mind.
Speaker 1: But now we're at the point where well you can't
Speaker 1: help but notice now so and as you said, is
Speaker 1: that good?
Speaker 3: Is that bad? It's mostly bad.
Speaker 1: But since it's the reality, let's let's see where we
Speaker 1: can get on understanding the situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to understand it in order to beat it.
Speaker 2: And I think we're on our way.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, well, Gil Duran, thank you once again, this
Speaker 1: was the age of transitions. The Age of Transitions. Dot
Speaker 1: com is my website. If you're listening live on the
Speaker 1: o'chelly Radio Network, stick around because Uncle is here. We're
Speaker 1: going to start Uncle the broadcast in mere minutes. So
Speaker 1: thank you. My name is Aaron Franz. As always, I
Speaker 1: will leave you by saying, seeker, seacute honesty. Please a mystery.
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