Speaker 1: With ron segle and from London and Gerard read from Berlin.
Speaker 1: This is Redefining Energy.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 3: On Redefining Energy, we're going to talk about energy trends
Speaker 3: and shocks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we published this episode at the same time
Speaker 4: as our friends at MBER. We just put out last
Speaker 4: week to fantastic report, one on energy trends and one
Speaker 4: on energy shocks. But first of all, from my partner.
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Speaker 4: Back to the show. The one they put last Tuesday
Speaker 4: is the annual Global Electricity Review, And we also had
Speaker 4: a report a few days earlier called twin Shocks.
Speaker 2: And to do that we brought a special friend on
Speaker 2: to talk about this.
Speaker 4: Yeah. He is lead energy strategist at Amber and he
Speaker 4: is someone we really like to have great conversation with
Speaker 4: and that is.
Speaker 2: Mister Bond.
Speaker 4: Let's bring in on the show.
Speaker 2: Kings Well, good to see you again. I'm glad to
Speaker 2: have you on the show.
Speaker 5: Thanks to Rob, Thanks Lohole, good to be here.
Speaker 4: King's Mill. We have a lot of our play today,
Speaker 4: but we're going to start by the great report that
Speaker 4: EMBER publishes every year, which is the Global Electricity Review
Speaker 4: to twenty six, one hundred and eighteen pages. What are
Speaker 4: the main takeaway?
Speaker 5: There are four key takeaways I want to highlight. First
Speaker 5: of all, the moment has come finally. Renewables are all
Speaker 5: of the growth in electricity generation in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5: It's been a long time coming, but that key milestone
Speaker 5: has been crossed. Secondly, and linked to it, we have
Speaker 5: seen peak fossil fuel demand in electricity generation, which I
Speaker 5: should remind you comes on top of peak fossils in
Speaker 5: industry in twenty fourteen and buildings in twenty eighteen and
Speaker 5: cars in twenty nineteen. Now electricity twenty twenty five key moment. Thirdly,
Speaker 5: we've seen peak China fossil fuels in electricity generation specifically
Speaker 5: down by fifty six terrible hours again Cray has been
Speaker 5: talking about this for a long time, but these are
Speaker 5: the numbers, the official or semi official I guess numbers.
Speaker 5: And it's extreme neat material because China's been the primary
Speaker 5: driver of fossil demand. Then fourth, a slightly new angle
Speaker 5: is the growth of batteries is so big. The batteries
Speaker 5: are now shifting fourteen percent of the solar which is
Speaker 5: being installed.
Speaker 2: Wow, fourteen percent of the solar globally.
Speaker 5: That's just so many batteries coming to the system, and
Speaker 5: they're basically doubling every year. So we can look forward
Speaker 5: to well over probably a corsure of new solar install
Speaker 5: lations in twenty twenty six are going to be time
Speaker 5: shifted by batteries.
Speaker 4: The electricity demand in the world is still growing, and
Speaker 4: we grew two point seven percent to twenty five for
Speaker 4: our list. Now basically we grew a Japan so solar
Speaker 4: grew by thirty percent. I think it grew more because
Speaker 4: I'm I'm pretty sure there's a lot of behind the
Speaker 4: metal which is difficult to account for. And WIN grew
Speaker 4: by eight percent, and all the rest nuclear, hydro cold gas,
Speaker 4: and that's all flat. Of course, it depends zone by
Speaker 4: zone we'll go there after that. But yeah, that's it.
Speaker 5: Just give you a bit of context on this. So soda
Speaker 5: and when basically are adding eight hundred and fifty terowa
Speaker 5: hours last year. Just when nuclear was being added to
Speaker 5: the system in the nineteen seventies, which is the last
Speaker 5: giant new thing that was added, it was adding around
Speaker 5: one hundred terower hours a year. So this stuff, it's
Speaker 5: eight times bigger things.
Speaker 6: When it goes back to the point that I always
Speaker 6: say is that we've never had an energy technology come
Speaker 6: to market as quickly. It's older because it's just so
Speaker 6: easy to install. It's cheap to install. And back to
Speaker 6: Lauran's point is when I want to get lost, but
Speaker 6: it's very clear it's underestimated because we've now got massive
Speaker 6: amounts of balcony solar, plug and play sol that goes
Speaker 6: in the system, which means that grid operators actually just
Speaker 6: don't even see the stuff, right. Yeah, And this is
Speaker 6: particularly true of course in the Global South.
Speaker 5: And we put out a report last week with the
Speaker 5: Climate Vulnerable Nations which identified the fact that there are
Speaker 5: dozens of countries in the Global South where the imports
Speaker 5: of solar panels are three times higher than the official numbers.
Speaker 5: The most famous is Pakistan. There's plenty of other countries
Speaker 5: out there where people are just putting this stuff up
Speaker 5: on their route. So it really is an opportunity for
Speaker 5: those who are energy poor to get energy and rescue
Speaker 5: themselves from energy poverty.
Speaker 4: Basically, you're telling all the guys that week, guys, they're
Speaker 4: not going to put gas, they're going solar.
Speaker 5: They need to leap specifically this kind of weird narrative
Speaker 5: that we need to bring fossil fuels to the peoples
Speaker 5: of the global self who have been let down, incidentally
Speaker 5: by the fossil fuel system for the last fifty years.
Speaker 5: And actually, no, we don't. We've got this thing called
Speaker 5: the Sun which goes past every single morning and provides
Speaker 5: you with electricity, and you can now get their electricity cheap,
Speaker 5: store it cheap, and massively increase the energy capture of
Speaker 5: the people who've never had it before under the fossil system.
Speaker 4: Now, if we dig deep into the excellent report, and
Speaker 4: we'll put lead in the show notes, let's dive into China, US,
Speaker 4: Europe and India because it's kind of a different picture.
Speaker 4: So China two third of the growth last year, came
Speaker 4: from China, and it was entirely met with wind, hydro
Speaker 4: and soa. And as you said, call is down. Do
Speaker 4: you want to comment to beat down China?
Speaker 5: China is particularly material to the global debate because the
Speaker 5: world ex China has had essentially flat fossil fuel demand
Speaker 5: since twenty eighteen, and it's China which has been the
Speaker 5: principal driver, and it's specifically the Chinese electricity sector which
Speaker 5: has been the principal driver of fossil fuel demand over
Speaker 5: the last seven years. So the fact that it now
Speaker 5: reached a long awaited peak in China and is starting
Speaker 5: to fall is therefore extremely material to the global debate.
Speaker 5: And no, when it comes to China and they're just
Speaker 5: throwing up solo and wind and hydro, and they've got
Speaker 5: some nuclear in the mix, but you know, it's just
Speaker 5: enough to push out fossil fuel. What's also really interesting
Speaker 5: about China is that they've figured out ways to get
Speaker 5: these low solar and wind prices into electricity prices, which
Speaker 5: because Europe has so far failed to do, and because
Speaker 5: they've enabled these low prices to come into electricity prices,
Speaker 5: that then is helping electricity push other alternatives such as
Speaker 5: gas or coal out of the final energy demand as well.
Speaker 5: So it's an impressive story. What's going on in China, Kingsman.
Speaker 6: What I'll also had is they incentivize by doing that electrification.
Speaker 6: That's what they do, which we in certainly in European perspective,
Speaker 6: we don't do it because our electricity is so expensive.
Speaker 6: I'm talking about the end consumer price, but the end
Speaker 6: consumer price in China is so low that you're going
Speaker 6: to electrify your automobile, You're going to inject electrifyer heating,
Speaker 6: you're going to electrify industrialization.
Speaker 5: Right. Yeah. This is the error that we've made in
Speaker 5: the Western general, Europe specifically, is we haven't got electricity
Speaker 5: prices down, which is load all these extra costs on
Speaker 5: to it, and this SECONDO is going to one. If
Speaker 5: you load also costs on, then the relative cost of
Speaker 5: fifty is just too high. And people don't let fight.
Speaker 5: And that is one of the key messages. Now we
Speaker 5: have to get their fifty prices down in order to electrify,
Speaker 5: in order to get fossils out of the rest of
Speaker 5: the system.
Speaker 4: Let's move to the US and the US it's really
Speaker 4: puzzling because yeah, we've seen theman growing, and we've seen
Speaker 4: more unoables. But what's very intriguing is that the gas
Speaker 4: consumption in the power system went down despite the fact
Speaker 4: that it's their cheap and coal went up. Now, if
Speaker 4: you look at the US system, it's divided into different
Speaker 4: main grids, so where coal has been going up was
Speaker 4: a bit in ARCOT and a lot in PGM and
Speaker 4: PGM this is where most of the data centers have
Speaker 4: been installed. So in fact, it looks like the data
Speaker 4: centers have triggered more col consumption. What's your take on
Speaker 4: the US system.
Speaker 5: The first point to be made about the US, and
Speaker 5: this is the one that people don't necessarily realize, is
Speaker 5: that two thousands of the growth from solar and three
Speaker 5: quarters is from wind and solar together. So you wouldn't
Speaker 5: have expected that given what's going on with the current administration.
Speaker 5: Basically what's going on in the rest of the world
Speaker 5: is still happening in America in spite of the administration's
Speaker 5: attempts to cap it.
Speaker 4: Europe so eure up. Last year we add eydro down,
Speaker 4: so Eidro is more and more fragile, and this year
Speaker 4: we have it. In Norway, for instance, I was going
Speaker 4: to go down. Call is down, wind was down because
Speaker 4: you had a wind draft. Solar fantastic up, but also
Speaker 4: gas was up. So what's your take on Europe?
Speaker 5: Europe is an awful lot of apparently conflicting things going
Speaker 5: on at the same time, but there's still a narrative here.
Speaker 5: Don't forget European demand increased last year was only about
Speaker 5: fourteen terrible hours, and solar added sixty. So let's be clear,
Speaker 5: solar is still absolutely dominant and is helping to push
Speaker 5: all other alternatives out of the system. And a visit
Speaker 5: this gas to coal issue. It's because of the European
Speaker 5: zeal to push coal out of the system, which is
Speaker 5: given current circumstances, possibly a little bit misplaced in its speed,
Speaker 5: and as a result they've had to use a bit
Speaker 5: more gas at the margin in order to make up
Speaker 5: for the show fall which came through in hydro. But
Speaker 5: it's still a very powerful story that Europe is deploying
Speaker 5: sorrow wind at scale over time, is pushing this other
Speaker 5: stuff out, and you do get these specific shocks to
Speaker 5: hydro nuclear which then require people to use a little
Speaker 5: bit more fossil fuels, but that's just temporary.
Speaker 4: Issue and then Las, but not least India called down
Speaker 4: wind Salah hydra up.
Speaker 5: India is a poster child of the electrotic revolution. They
Speaker 5: are deploying as you say, wind, sober and hydro space.
Speaker 5: So total Indian demongro is around fifty terawa hours last year,
Speaker 5: and solar alone added fifty three wins another twenty and
Speaker 5: hydros another twenty. So last year, for the first time
Speaker 5: in a structural manner, coal demand was actually pushed out
Speaker 5: of the system in India. We're not calling a coal
Speaker 5: top in India yet because actually last year total demand
Speaker 5: growth in India is relatively low, So if you'd go
Speaker 5: back to normal levels of growth, you still have a
Speaker 5: small amount of opportunity. But the key and the wider
Speaker 5: point that we made in a report a month ago
Speaker 5: is that India is taking a very different path to
Speaker 5: the path the West took fifty years ago, or China
Speaker 5: to around twenty to twenty. They are close to their
Speaker 5: peak demand of coal per capita at around one megua hour,
Speaker 5: whilst of course China famously peaked around four. So India
Speaker 5: is taking a new path because they can, because they've
Speaker 5: got the solar in the wind, and therefore they are
Speaker 5: deploying those new technologies at massive scale.
Speaker 4: So overall, it's a picture of the trends that you
Speaker 4: have identified a few years ago when you coined the
Speaker 4: term with some of your colleague electoral state. These are
Speaker 4: long term trains. But on the top of that, you've
Speaker 4: got the shocks which are eating the system. And you
Speaker 4: published a few days ago a second report called the
Speaker 4: twin Shock. So what's your name thesis around the twin.
Speaker 5: Shocks in the energy world. The twin oil shocks of
Speaker 5: the nineteen seventies are very well remembered, so nineteen seventy
Speaker 5: three nineteen seventy nine, and the lessons learned from that
Speaker 5: era was that it really took two big shocks to
Speaker 5: drive change. So, for example, oil in electricity generation actually
Speaker 5: rose from nineteen seventy three to nineteen seventy nine. But
Speaker 5: after the second shock, people said, right, enough's enough, we're
Speaker 5: going to take it out of electricity generation, and they
Speaker 5: made the necessary investments and they drove change. And our
Speaker 5: argument today in twenty twenty six is we've had another
Speaker 5: dual oil shock. Twenty twenty two put into legal invasion
Speaker 5: of Ukraine twenty twenty six, Trump's attack on Iran both
Speaker 5: times are driving massive spikes in fossil fuel prices, and
Speaker 5: the combination of those in a world where American power
Speaker 5: is waning and the packs Americana is falling apart, means
Speaker 5: that people need to have a very radically different approach
Speaker 5: to the way they are.
Speaker 2: Dealing with energy right now.
Speaker 5: That's the kind of the scene setting, and the consequence
Speaker 5: of this framing is that change will be sped up.
Speaker 5: So the changes that we have been talking about for
Speaker 5: many years, the deployment of solar wind, the electrication of transport,
Speaker 5: and home heat electrification in general, those shifts will be
Speaker 5: sped up inevitably by high fossil fuel prices.
Speaker 6: Kingsmill, I think you're right if we look at this
Speaker 6: from a global scale, but I'd really just look at
Speaker 6: it maybe from European perspectives, and I'm going to particularly
Speaker 6: look at Germany. Germany seems to be on the exact
Speaker 6: opsis way. So what we've got as an economics minister
Speaker 6: and her cabinet who really believe that the oppositer is true,
Speaker 6: that actually all this renewables as post energy prices up
Speaker 6: too much, the grid costs are too expensive. What we
Speaker 6: need to do is build more gas. So what do
Speaker 6: you think of that now narrative?
Speaker 5: Why would you build more gas from the price is
Speaker 5: twenty dollars per be to you, it's just stupid, beyond belief.
Speaker 5: But anyway, leaving that minor point aside, you've got to
Speaker 5: distinguish between short term and long term. In the short term,
Speaker 5: when you get a shock, you have to do whatever
Speaker 5: you can do to keep the lights on, saying you
Speaker 5: flick back on your coal fired power, you drive slower,
Speaker 5: you deploy any source you can find to keep the
Speaker 5: lights on temporarily. That's the short term action that people take.
Speaker 5: But much more importantly is what is the long term
Speaker 5: consequence of yet another oil shock. And there is this
Speaker 5: fight out between those who would have us go back
Speaker 5: to the old playbook of saying, look, there's been a shot,
Speaker 5: let's just extract more, versus those who say, there's been
Speaker 5: a shock, let's do things differently this time. The reason
Speaker 5: why it makes absolutely no sense to go back to
Speaker 5: the old fossil playbook is, for the first time in
Speaker 5: history at the time of an oil shock, we have
Speaker 5: a massive superior solution in all of these electrotech technologies,
Speaker 5: so solar and wind and batteries, electric vehicles, and electrication,
Speaker 5: so no way to learn it eight times bigger than
Speaker 5: nuclear was in the nineteen seventies. Electrication solutions that we
Speaker 5: have today we didn't have in the nineteen seventies. We
Speaker 5: pushed oil out of electricity generation that was ten percent.
Speaker 5: This time we're going to push oil out of transport
Speaker 5: forty nine percent of oil demand. So it's a completely
Speaker 5: different world with completely different tools. And those who want
Speaker 5: to go back to the past, really it's beyond Beney.
Speaker 5: And then final observation. You have supply reaction to high prices,
Speaker 5: which is, let's get more fossils and more electrotech, more renewables.
Speaker 5: But you also folks have a demand response, and the
Speaker 5: demand response is let's use less expensive stuff, which in
Speaker 5: this instance is fossil fuels and more cheap stuff which
Speaker 5: is renewable. It's absolutely simple, clean, clear moment for people
Speaker 5: to get out of the old into the new.
Speaker 4: One remark, I believe that in the head of decision maker,
Speaker 4: they always think that there will be a return to
Speaker 4: the status quante. They always think, as you said, it's temporary,
Speaker 4: we'll go back to But now if you look at
Speaker 4: the fact and you pointed it well, and it's not
Speaker 4: a climate debate anymore. It's a really energy security debate.
Speaker 4: At some point when the tank are empty. The tank
Speaker 4: are empty because a Ukrainian have courageously taken on the
Speaker 4: oil infrastructure of Russia, and because the idea that you
Speaker 4: could pass one hundred ships per day through the bit
Speaker 4: of almost without paying anything to anybody freely, that's gone.
Speaker 4: There is this recalibration that needs to happen, and it's
Speaker 4: happening much faster. At the consumer level. Even my wife
Speaker 4: will love her car, say start looking at Eve's. Okay,
Speaker 4: it's a bit of an anecdote, but two three years
Speaker 4: ago she would not even consider IV and now she's
Speaker 4: looking at EV's. But the decision maker, they take more
Speaker 4: time because of incubancy, because of lobbying, because of intellectual laziness,
Speaker 4: sometimes stupidity. I don't want to say that some guys
Speaker 4: are nefarious, but sometimes they even wonder the change in paradigm,
Speaker 4: it's now in the head of the people.
Speaker 5: It also is worth while remembering that we in Europe
Speaker 5: have been like the frog in the pot. We have
Speaker 5: increased our fossil fuel input dependency consistently over decades and
Speaker 5: it's now sixty percent so out of ten units of energy,
Speaker 5: and it's eight out of ten in Ireland by the
Speaker 5: way that people use our imported fossil fuels. And suddenly
Speaker 5: we are now shifting very obviously to an environment where
Speaker 5: that degree of import dependency is far too risky. So
Speaker 5: the starting point we are well beyond where we need
Speaker 5: to be, and we absolutely have to dramatically reduce that
Speaker 5: level of fossil fuel import dependency. The good news is
Speaker 5: that for the first time ever we can do this thing.
Speaker 5: Got the solutions and they're cheaper and they can be
Speaker 5: deployed quickly. When people start to make fundamental strategic plans
Speaker 5: for how to get out of this mess now and
Speaker 5: for the next few decades, this will be their very
Speaker 5: clear answer. Renewables, electrification and the other absolutely key point
Speaker 5: Now during this crisis, we should not waste the prices.
Speaker 5: We have lots of inertia and old rules propping up
Speaker 5: the fossil system. This is the moment, folks, to clear
Speaker 5: those away, to clear away the massive undergrowth of regulatory
Speaker 5: infrastructure with holds back change.
Speaker 2: So things about and laurn. I want to add one
Speaker 2: other thing that you didn't really talk about it.
Speaker 6: Is what we've got now is an economic driver for
Speaker 6: electrification that we didn't have before.
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is you sort of
Speaker 2: hinted at it.
Speaker 6: The reality is, why do you electrify your automobile because
Speaker 6: it's cheaper, Why do you electrify industrial processes because it's cheaper.
Speaker 6: Because the technologies that we have in the hardware side
Speaker 6: enable us to actually lower the cost of producing stuff
Speaker 6: and running stuff. I think that's the big difference than
Speaker 6: maybe ten years ago. And I'd also add to that
Speaker 6: as well, is that the speed of innovation in and
Speaker 6: around the hardware in the whole energy space is off
Speaker 6: the charts. The other day, I was in the Netherlands
Speaker 6: and I drove a Chinese car called a Neil eight
Speaker 6: hundred kilometer range. I've never been in a car like it,
Speaker 6: I must admit in terms of what I couldn't couldn't
Speaker 6: do to me. It gave me a massage. But battery
Speaker 6: swapping capabilities, Okay, you pull in the car, swaps the
Speaker 6: battery out.
Speaker 2: Two minutes you're ready to go another eight hundred kilometers.
Speaker 6: And I'm only using as an example of the innovation
Speaker 6: that we're not really seeing because the speed of it
Speaker 6: is so good. And the reason I also bring that
Speaker 6: forward is because that's the opportunity as well, is to
Speaker 6: be part of that revolution. Yeah, you're sitting there in Dublin,
Speaker 6: and if Island wants to reduce its massive import dependency,
Speaker 6: the solution is not give away oil at lower prices.
Speaker 6: A solution is help people shift across to electric vehicles
Speaker 6: and never buy the oider gain. Instead of buying diesel
Speaker 6: two pounds a liter, you can buy electricity effectively at
Speaker 6: about twenty pla. I mean, it's just dramatically cheaper to
Speaker 6: go down this route, and you can do it quickly.
Speaker 6: So I think that's the other difference between this and
Speaker 6: let's say the nineteen seventies and nineteen seventies was all
Speaker 6: governmental lead, massive programs in nuclear and so and so forth.
Speaker 6: This time around, this can be a consumer led revolution.
Speaker 6: You trin't go out there and bioletric vehicle and put
Speaker 6: some solar panels on your roof. These things take weeks,
Speaker 6: not decades.
Speaker 2: Kingsman, what do you think this all means?
Speaker 5: Three for very profound implications of these twin shocks. The
Speaker 5: first is specifically that Asia, which is where all the
Speaker 5: growth is coming from. Asia is going to pivot to electrotech.
Speaker 5: I mean, if you've seen, as we all have, the
Speaker 5: cues in the streets and the lack of energy for
Speaker 5: cooking and transport, and the four day weeks and so
Speaker 5: on and so forth. Asia has been sold the lie
Speaker 5: that fossil fuels would be cheap and available and give
Speaker 5: them independence. That's clearly not true. They're going Asia clearly
Speaker 5: now is already electrifying, is going to electrify fast and
Speaker 5: deploy renewables faster. So Alisia goes to electritic fast. As
Speaker 5: the first conclusion. The second conclusion is the weakest pieces
Speaker 5: of the fossil fuel system will now see more rapid change.
Speaker 5: And the weakest piece of the fossil system right now
Speaker 5: is oil in transport, So we're going to see oil
Speaker 5: in transport, which is nearly half of transport demand road transport,
Speaker 5: oil pushed out of road transport. And the third piece
Speaker 5: where you're going to see change is the other solution
Speaker 5: at the very top end of the costco of LNG
Speaker 5: in electricity generation. Around one third of LNG is going
Speaker 5: into electricity generation, and that's just far too expensive. Is
Speaker 5: going to be pushed out by solar and wind. And
Speaker 5: then the final conclusion really worth highlighting is pre coil
Speaker 5: demand is not a very big call given the fact
Speaker 5: we can't even get the oil, but pea coil and
Speaker 5: peak fossil fuel demand, we've been bumping along a plateau
Speaker 5: for a while. We're not going back. This is it.
Speaker 6: I love it, my friend, Can I end with sort of?
Speaker 6: The thing that keeps me awake is that if I
Speaker 6: really gone to push electrification, we need new regulations, new
Speaker 6: legislation in this space.
Speaker 2: What's your view on that?
Speaker 5: This is a moment that policymakers should not waste. Are
Speaker 5: four things, rather than a long laundry list, four things
Speaker 5: we would focus on they need to do. The first
Speaker 5: is they need to, as I say, sweep away the
Speaker 5: regulatory undergrowth which props up the current system. Secondly, they
Speaker 5: need to prioritize electrication, not just generation. Don't make the
Speaker 5: same mistake we made in twenty twenty two. We have
Speaker 5: to electrify as well. The third thing is they have
Speaker 5: to get the price of electricity down. And then the fourth,
Speaker 5: and this is I think we're making a big call here,
Speaker 5: is to say we need new institutions in nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 5: we set up the Strategic Petolium Reserve, the International Energy Agency,
Speaker 5: lots of ways of improving efficiency. We need to think bigger.
Speaker 5: We need new institutions which will drive renewables and efficiency
Speaker 5: and electrication like in.
Speaker 6: Particular point because there's so much best practice that needs
Speaker 6: to be shared across the world and at.
Speaker 2: Present it's not being done well, said mister Bond.
Speaker 4: Mister King's mid Bond, so always a treat to have
Speaker 4: you on the PUD. Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on the show again.
Speaker 5: Thanks folks, thanks the opportunity.
Speaker 2: Well, Ron, So I think you know my view already,
Speaker 2: and there's some very clear in my head that you know.
Speaker 2: The way forward is to move towards becoming an electrostras.
Speaker 2: That's just as simple as that. I know that's not
Speaker 2: necessarily an easy transformation, but it is the way forward.
Speaker 2: And I don't think just from a European perspective. I
Speaker 2: think from a global perspective, right.
Speaker 6: And whoever takes that leap will take also big economic
Speaker 6: leap as well.
Speaker 4: I'm very interested by King's middle conclusion, which are as, yeah,
Speaker 4: we'll electrify faster, than the rest of the world. Number two,
Speaker 4: transport electrification is going to accelerate. Len G will be
Speaker 4: pushed out of the power sector and coil job. One
Speaker 4: thing is to have to fill your tank for one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty dollars when you used to do it
Speaker 4: at sixty dollars a few months before. One thing is
Speaker 4: to have to pay double for your paying ticket. But
Speaker 4: another thing is to have you arrive at the pump
Speaker 4: and it's sorry, no gas, or your plane is canceled
Speaker 4: because there's not enough jet fuel. Price is one thing,
Speaker 4: but physical shortage DAD is really triggering a lot of
Speaker 4: acceleration of trends. And we've seen that already. We've seen
Speaker 4: report that in March the salar panel sales is up
Speaker 4: fifty percent. We see that evy volume is reaching twenty
Speaker 4: five percent in certain markets. Literally everywhere, shocks are accelerating trends.
Speaker 6: You're totally right. And actually, if I look at what's
Speaker 6: going on around, is quividi R and as patch like
Speaker 6: in the seventy second Old crisis.
Speaker 2: First of all, crisis.
Speaker 3: Came along, nothing really changed. Second oil on second nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy nine, by the way, and guess what major change
Speaker 3: is in a large part of the world, particularly in
Speaker 3: certain countries in like your own country France where you
Speaker 3: were born, but Sweden all this day electrifized, they built
Speaker 3: nuclear et cetera, and it up really quickly. And I
Speaker 3: think we're at that moment as well. The difference between
Speaker 3: now in nineteen seventy nine is we've actually got much
Speaker 3: more tools on our hand. And what I mean by
Speaker 3: that is nuclear was at that point in time, Jesus.
Speaker 3: What France did was absolutely incredible in terms of the
Speaker 3: nuclear buildout and the speed they did it, but it
Speaker 3: was like the only tool that was available at the time. Really,
Speaker 3: where today there's so many technologies. You mentioned evs, but
Speaker 3: also all the renewable technology is very low cost. You've
Speaker 3: got grid enhancing technologies, You've got.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you can go on and on and on in
Speaker 6: terms of what's available there that makes economic sense.
Speaker 4: You are always the uptimy sky and I'm always the guy.
Speaker 4: So that's probably why we make a good duo. There
Speaker 4: was a new term that just came out recently, and
Speaker 4: it's fascinating. Remember a few years ago, we used to
Speaker 4: talk about range anxiety, and now we're talking about pump anxiety.
Speaker 2: I didn't hear that one.
Speaker 6: I like that pump excited, and so I gome back
Speaker 6: to the thing about. One of the reflections I've had
Speaker 6: over the last few weeks myself is that.
Speaker 3: Nobody learns anything in the school about energy, so nobody
Speaker 3: understands it. The only thing they know is you go
Speaker 3: to the tank, you go to the pump, and you're
Speaker 3: able to fill up, You plug in, and you get
Speaker 3: electricity until you can't and then the world falls apart.
Speaker 3: It's really the job of it's a job of governments
Speaker 3: to make sure that they prepare for this situation and
Speaker 3: that because if the average person the street doesn't understand
Speaker 3: the other rests, then there needs to be somebody else
Speaker 3: to tell us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, we've heard it before. When the market
Speaker 4: is sufficiently supply, that's where the private doctor can organize themselves.
Speaker 4: But whenever there's a shortage, government have to step in.
Speaker 4: That's their job.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.
Speaker 4: We thank mister Bond for coming on the show. What
Speaker 4: was a pleasure. That's a blue flame thinker.
Speaker 2: KINGSWLD as ever great and looking forward to seeing you
Speaker 2: very so.
Speaker 4: And John, I'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 1: Looking forward to thank you for listening to Redefining Energy,
Speaker 1: don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or the platform of your choice.