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No, we're just necessary daoidhever everyboy 23 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:01.200 loss comes conditions beating pluss. 24 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.599 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 25 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.719 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:22.079 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 27 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.799 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.439 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:41.280 journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 30 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:45.439 Before Charles Manson, there was Tony Costa, the serial killer 31 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:48.640 of Cape Cod nineteen sixty nine. The hippie scene is 32 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:53.239 vibrant in Provincetown, Massachusetts. Long haired teenagers roam the streets, 33 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.599 strumming guitars and preaching about peace and love, and Tony 34 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:58.680 Costa is at the center of it all. To a 35 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.599 certain group of smitt and young women, he is known 36 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.120 as Sire, the leader of their counterculture movement, the charming 37 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:08.599 man who speaks eloquently and hands out hallucinogenic drugs like candy, 38 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.400 but beneath his benign persona laza twisted and uncontrollable rage 39 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.960 that threatens to break loose at any moment. Tony causes 40 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.639 the most dangerous man on Cape Cod, and no one 41 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.919 who crosses his path is safe when young women begin 42 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:26.719 to disappear. Costs, natural charisma, and good looks initially protect 43 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:29.599 him from suspicion, but as the bodies are discovered, the 44 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.400 police close in on him as their key suspect. Meanwhile, 45 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.479 local writers Kurt Vonnegut and Norman Mahler are locked in 46 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:40.599 a desperate race to secure their legacies as great literary icons, 47 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.879 and they both set their sights on Tony Costa and 48 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.960 the drug soaked tippie culture that he embodies as their 49 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:52.520 next promising subject, launching independent investigations that stoke the competitive 50 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.280 fires between two of the greatest American writers. Immersive, unflinching, 51 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:00.639 and shocking, Helltown is a landmark true crime narrative that 52 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:04.560 transports us back to the turbulent late nineteen sixties, reveals 53 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.000 the secrets of a notorious serial killer, and unspools the 54 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.400 threads connecting Costa, Vonnegut, and Mailer in the seaside city 55 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.439 that played host to horrors unlike any ever seen before 56 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.800 the book they were featuring. This s evening is hell Town, 57 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.719 the untold story of a serial killer on Cape cod 58 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.759 with my special guest journalist and author Casey Sherman. Welcome 59 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:28.000 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 60 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:28.879 Casey Sherman. 61 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.680 Thank you for having me. Dan appreciate it. 62 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.599 Thank you so much. This is an incredible book. Let's 63 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:39.319 get right to it. You talk about Kurt Vonnegut, Edie Vonnegut, 64 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:42.759 and you open the book with talking about the hippies 65 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:45.159 were taking over the tip of Cape cod tell us 66 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.599 what was happening in nineteen seventy four, and you talk 67 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.680 about his parole hearing and the book that Tony Costa 68 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:58.159 completed Resurrection, and then we get into Kurt Vonnegut and 69 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:00.439 what he was doing at that time, and his daughter 70 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.479 Edie Vonnegutt tell us about that. 71 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:03.080 Sure. 72 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.120 So, Dan, the prologue you're talking about is Tony Costa, 73 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.919 the serial killer, behind bars in nineteen seventy four at 74 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:15.360 Walpole State Prison in Massachusetts, and he is working on 75 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:18.959 his unpublished manuscript. It was a manuscript that I got 76 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.040 access to as part of my research for this book, 77 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.439 and in nineteen seventy four, Tony cost that takes his 78 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.160 fate in his own hands and Alan spoil it for 79 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.560 the reader. But we propel the story from there and 80 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.720 then we go back to you mentioned the setting which 81 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:36.800 is nineteen sixty nine, and it's really a year of 82 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.160 reckoning in America. The Summer of Love is a distant 83 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.360 memory and overshadowed by the assassination of Martin Luther King 84 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:45.079 Robert F. 85 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.360 Kennedy. We've got a raging war in Vietnam. 86 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.360 And the bloody violence of the nineteen sixty eight Democratic 87 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:55.759 National Convention in Chicago. Now woven into the historical landscape 88 00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:00.399 of Helltown, we have Richard Nixon's inauguration chap Equitic, the 89 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.279 moon landing, and finally the Manson murders. Now the characters 90 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:08.240 in my book hell Town have both direct and Kean's 91 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.439 gentle connections with all of these major events. I look 92 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.519 at twenty twenty two the same way that I look 93 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:19.240 at nineteen sixty nine, because there's been a huge cultural 94 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.279 and political shift in our country. We're living in a 95 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.759 very dangerous time right now, where darkness is overshadowing light. 96 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:32.639 Let's talk about Sydney Monson and say, very much like 97 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.519 Edie Vonnegut, she was a young woman and she's from 98 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.319 eastam tell us what happened with Sidney Monsen? 99 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:42.639 Sure, you know, let me go back a little bit 100 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:44.720 and talk a little bit about my career as an 101 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.839 investigative journalist. I've been working in that space for twenty 102 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:53.120 five years and I've covered more than fifty homfidtes and 103 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:57.000 with this case Dan, I had access to more than 104 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.319 two thousand documents, crime scene photos, and autopsy reports of 105 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:04.600 the case. In my opinion, this is the worst serial 106 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.199 killer case since Jack the Ripper was stalking women in 107 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.079 East London back in eighteen eighty eight. As a crime reporter, 108 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.319 you know, looking at this, looking at these young victims. 109 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.560 You mentioned the killer himself, a charismatic serial killer named 110 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:24.639 Tony Costa, who was handsome, well read, very articulate and 111 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:29.639 could lure these beautiful young women into very troubling and 112 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:35.399 often deadly situations. Sidney Mansen was a young woman recently 113 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:38.560 graduated the local high school at the you know, the 114 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.959 tip of Cape Cod, East Ham is on the arm 115 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.720 of Cape Cod leading up to the Fist which is 116 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:50.079 ultimately provincedown and Sidney becomes captivating by this, you know, 117 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:54.319 young hippie like Messiah and falls under his spell and 118 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.480 puts her defenses down and it ultimately leads to her death. 119 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.360 What Tony Costa was doing with his victims was. 120 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:05.079 He was luring them into you know, dark areas, wooded 121 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:09.959 areas in Truro and Provincetown, getting their guards down over 122 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.839 over the drugs he was supplying them, or the hallucinogenetics 123 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:17.399 that he had given them previously, and he was shooting them. 124 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.959 He was stabbing them, he was dismembering their bodies and 125 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:26.199 burying them in shallow graves. Now, dan in nineteen sixty nine, 126 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:30.160 when these women start to go missing in Provincetown, you know, 127 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.399 the police don't take it seriously because Provincetown at that 128 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.079 time was kind of a transient community. People came and went, 129 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.920 especially those you know, adhering to the hippie culture, and 130 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.319 the police just thought Sidney Monsen and these other women 131 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:48.480 had just you know, pulled up stakes and followed a caravan, 132 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.480 whether it was to hate Ashbury in San Francisco or 133 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.319 to Greenwich Village in New York City. They didn't know 134 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:59.199 that these women were buried in shallow graves a few 135 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:00.959 feet away from the police station. 136 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.879 Basically, the police had a relationship with Tony Costa. 137 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:08.639 What was that Tony Costa was a drug informant and 138 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:13.240 it allowed Tony Costa to embed himself with the Provincetown 139 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.040 Police Department, which was not that big, you know. I 140 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:20.600 mean it had a handful of police officers covering only 141 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.720 about a mile and a half in terms of territory. 142 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.360 But in the summertime, that community balloons to you know, 143 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:31.680 well over five to ten thousand residents, and that's a 144 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.039 lot of ground to cover. And they used Tony Costa 145 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.440 to gain information about Tony Costa's rivals in the drug trade, 146 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.320 which had allowed Tony Costa, the serial killer, to kind 147 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.320 of pick off his competition. But when he begins to 148 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.399 evolve and starts to murder these women, it also allows 149 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.120 him to keep cabs on the investigators themselves, because he 150 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:57.840 always thought then that he was smarter than the police 151 00:08:57.879 --> 00:08:59.960 that were committed to catching him. 152 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.879 Ultimately, he was not well. 153 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:06.440 Police are looking and Sidney Monsen's sister Linda is looking 154 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:11.440 for her along with her boyfriend Roland. Susan Perry goes missing. 155 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.159 Tell us how police proceed with these disappearances. 156 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.159 Well, again, they they didn't realize at the time that 157 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.679 these young women were missing, and it took it well 158 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.799 over a year before the police finally took these disappearances seriously. 159 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:27.919 Susan Perry had fallen in love with the serial killer, 160 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.240 much like Sidney Monson had, and it ended with her 161 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:34.679 with her death, once again dismembering the body and burying 162 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.440 her in a shallow grave. One of the investigators that 163 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:40.840 I interviewed for this book was a former state trooper 164 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:44.000 named Tom Gunnery, and Tom is convinced that he pulled 165 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.600 over Tony Costa on a route leading to Provincetown just 166 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.600 after Susan Perry had gone missing. And he believes that 167 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.159 Susan Perry was probably dismembered and in the back of 168 00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:59.480 Tony Costa's car. Had he opened the trunk and realized 169 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:02.360 that hor or discovered it at the time, You know, 170 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:06.200 other young women wouldn't have been killed, but unfortunately they were. 171 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.759 Now tell us about his appearance at this guest house 172 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.960 of Patricia Morton, how he gets there, and the interaction 173 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:14.480 with her. 174 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.039 Sure, you know Tony Costa was a handyman in Provincetown, 175 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.759 but again, you know, you look at him, his his 176 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.600 psychology is pretty unique. He is the living epitome of 177 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:30.320 Norman Bates. Tony Costa was an amateur taxidermist who had 178 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.600 basically been forced to move to Provincetown to live with 179 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.240 relatives because he had tied up and sexually assaulted a 180 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.039 young woman in his hometown, a town of Somerville, Massachusetts. 181 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.440 While he was a teenager. He was also disappearing local pets, 182 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:50.120 killing them and performing his taxidermy you know, understanding the 183 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:52.600 the you know, the human body in a way that 184 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.480 would ultimately help him perform his duties as a serial 185 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.000 killer much later in his life. He also had tremendous 186 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.919 mother issues as well then, which may be one of 187 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:05.960 his motivations hit a love hate relationship with his mother 188 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.639 that ultimately I think he projected onto his victims, primarily 189 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.320 Mariann Waisaki and Patricia Walsh, two professionals. One was a teacher, 190 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.240 one was a college student who had decided to leave 191 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.000 their home in Providence, Rhode Island, just for a brief 192 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.200 getaway in Provincetown, Massachusetts in the cold winter of nineteen 193 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.799 sixty nine, and they find lodging at a rooming house 194 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:34.600 at five Standish Street in Provincetown, and suddenly they meet 195 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:39.279 again a very charismatic lodger named Tony Costa, who offers 196 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.279 to show them around town and provides them some advice 197 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:46.039 on where to go on a cold, desolate night in Provincetown, 198 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:49.840 and they quickly fall under his spell, and over the 199 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.240 course of twenty four hours he lures them into their web, 200 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.159 into his web, I should say, and it's the last 201 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.000 time either of them are ever seen alive. 202 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:02.360 Now with the landlady, she discover something the next day, 203 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.279 specifically a note. Tell us about that note, and it's contrast. 204 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:10.200 Well, the note was written by the serial killer Tony Costa, 205 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.879 to the two young women I just mentioned, and he 206 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.360 was asking them for a ride at Chatruro, which is 207 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.639 the next town over, because Tony Costa didn't have a vehicle. 208 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.399 And again, you know, he was a pleasant young man, 209 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:28.639 very unassuming, very charismatic, certainly somebody that wasn't threatening, and 210 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.919 these women provided him assistance and ultimately they let their 211 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.039 guards down and he took them on the last ride 212 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.240 of their lives to an ancient cemetery in Treuro and 213 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:45.440 ultimately to his killing field where he shot them, dismembered 214 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.600 their bodies and buried them in shallow graves. 215 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:53.000 Now people that are looking for the two people. The 216 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:57.279 teacher was Mary Anne Wsaki and Pat Pat Walsh. There 217 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:00.519 was a stolen or there was a missing Vita, a 218 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:04.480 blue Volkswagen. So what happens with this Volkswagen? It spotted, 219 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:07.519 but it spotted again? Tell us about this well. 220 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.039 I mean, it's basically the death car. 221 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:13.799 So Pat Walsh owned a nineteen sixty eight blue BW 222 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.080 Beetle and she drove Tony Costa and her friend Marian 223 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.879 Waisaki to Truro, and Tony Costa murdered these women, as 224 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:26.480 I said, in very heinous ways. Now going back to 225 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.159 this stand again, I can't I can't stress this enough. 226 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.360 You know, viewing the crime scene and the autopsy photos 227 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.639 of these women, these women weren't just stabbed. It looked 228 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.240 like they had been mauled by a great white shark. 229 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.720 They were frenzied, cuts to their bodies, and there were 230 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.879 organs taken out of all of the victims, whether it 231 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:48.840 was their breasts or their uteruses. 232 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:49.320 You know. 233 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.720 Basically, Tony Costa was consuming their womanhood, if you will, 234 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:54.360 while he. 235 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:55.240 Was murdering them. 236 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.919 So he commits these heinous atrocities, buries these women, and 237 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.360 then he's got to get rid of the evidence, meaning 238 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:07.080 the Volkswagen Beetle. He leaves it deserted, in Truro. Ultimately, 239 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:10.720 it's spotted by a passer by and when the passer 240 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:14.080 by alerts local law enforcement because it was in an 241 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.639 area that was unusual, and it sparked, you know, suspicion 242 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.519 right away. But when the local authorities went back to 243 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.039 retreat of the vehicle, the vehicle was gone. And that's 244 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:27.200 because the serial killer had taken the car and drove 245 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:29.639 it out of town, actually drove it out of state. 246 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:34.279 And this begins dan a very interesting cat and mouse 247 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:39.000 game that's a serial killer plays with investigators. Oftentimes, serial 248 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.039 killers like this will shy away from the spotlight, will 249 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.120 hide in the shadows. We've seen that time and time again. 250 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.600 Tony cost was much different. Again, he thought he could 251 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:53.159 outwit the investigators, so he took them off and led 252 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:56.559 these investigators on a bit of a wild goosebase over 253 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:57.320 several weeks. 254 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:01.679 There was a person named Steve Grund and another person 255 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:06.000 named Weed, nicknamed Weed, and they accompany him to Boston 256 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:11.000 and to and to his brother in law Vinnie Bornaveri. So, 257 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.039 but Steve Grunt is asking questions about this VW What 258 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:16.759 does the Costa have to say to him? 259 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.759 Well, you know, Costa basically orders him. 260 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.559 You know, don't ask too many questions because you're not 261 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.279 going to like what the answer is. Ultimately, Tony cost 262 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.440 has two hippie friends believe that the vehicle of stolen, 263 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.159 and they were absolutely great. Now they have no idea 264 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:34.360 that the owner of that vehicle, you know, was buried 265 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.720 in under you know, three feet of frozen earth a 266 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.679 few miles away. That was something they could not comprehend. 267 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.639 They just thought Tony Costa may have hotwired the car, 268 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:47.519 stolen the car, and that's really where their suspicions lie 269 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:50.919 because you know, going back to you know, Costa's ability 270 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:55.120 to be so charismatic, not only you know, amongst women, 271 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.480 but amongst men. You mentioned that he had a nickname 272 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.279 named sim You know, he was very Manson esque in 273 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.840 that way where he had disciples that were willing to 274 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.480 basically do anything in his name. And you mentioned these 275 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:10.639 two friends that were basically in the stolen vehicle, a 276 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:14.120 vehicle that was used for murder and naming, you know, 277 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.320 basically you know, helping Tony Costa hide the evidence unbeknownst 278 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:19.080 to themselves. 279 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.879 Now, how does Gunnery and Bernie Flynn, how do these 280 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:27.039 police officers, how do they proceed with their search. And 281 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:28.480 where do they search first? 282 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.039 Well, I mean, obviously, you know, you create concentric circles 283 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.480 around the area in which these women have gone missing, 284 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.480 So you start with the boarding house. And again they're 285 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.799 looking for two missing women in Provincetown. They have not 286 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:46.279 made the connection between these disappearances and the disappearances of 287 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:49.720 Susan Perry, the disappearance of Sidney Monsen. There was another 288 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.240 victim in New York City, Christine Gallant. They have not 289 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.000 made any of these connections yet. He was looking for 290 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.639 these two missing women, and quite frankly, they believe that 291 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.960 they are alive until they start to find unique pieces 292 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:05.359 of evidence inside the boarding house that ultimately leads them. 293 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.599 To believe that these women have been murdered. 294 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.599 And you know, the biggest reveal is the Volkswagen Beetle 295 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.680 that turns up in Burlington, Vermont. And they are connecting 296 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.720 Tony Costa to this case step by step, and Costa 297 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.880 is confronting them at every step, denying his culpability in 298 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.160 these disappearances and ultimately these murders. 299 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.279 And it becomes a. 300 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.759 Game of catch me if you can, you know, And 301 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.240 I got to really spend a lot of time with 302 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.920 Tom Gunnery working on this book. Bernie Flynn had passed on, 303 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.200 you know, a long time before I decided to take 304 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.839 this case on. But you know, I've had the great 305 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.480 opportunity of reviewing all of his case notes, his police reports, 306 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.319 interviewing is his wife who had gone through a lot 307 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.079 of this with him. Because you know, Tom Gunnery and 308 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.480 Bernie Flynn, they were both you know, fathers, they both 309 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:01.400 had dogs. They couldn't imagine their our own children, you know, 310 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.799 being put into situations like this, and it was a 311 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.720 race against time for them because they didn't know when 312 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:12.000 Tony Costa would kill again, because he certainly was capable 313 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.359 of it, and he was evolving as a serial killer. 314 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:19.599 They found out about Avis Costa, and so they spoke 315 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:22.759 to her. What did they find out. 316 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.559 Well, AVOs Costa was Tony Costa's wife who was going 317 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.759 through a divorce with Tony Costa at the time that 318 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.359 this investigation really started to begin. Now it's a really 319 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.759 unique relationship. Tony Costa married her or you know, impregnated 320 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:40.319 her when she was thirteen, married her when she was 321 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:44.799 fourteen years old, you know, committed a lot of very sadistic, 322 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:50.200 masochistic sex acts against Avis as he was evolving as 323 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:52.519 a serial killer, and he was also coming under the 324 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.400 cloud a major drug addit that he had acquired while 325 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.400 he was going through marital troubles with Avis. So here 326 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.559 you have person who is breaking dead and very dangerous 327 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.599 and then you know, is overcome by hallucinogenic drugs and 328 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.960 begins to create an alter ego for himself. Now in 329 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.599 psychology they call that ego splitting. Tony Coster had created 330 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:21.200 this alter ego to commit these these heinous mergents, and 331 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.880 that way he could compartmentalize his own personality of a 332 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.319 kind of a fun loving, caring hippie like Messiah who 333 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:30.799 is all into peace and love. And this Jack the 334 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.319 Ripper who was buried deep in his soul. 335 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.960 You talk about that. At this time, he is being 336 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.799 harassed by police, even though you say this cat and 337 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.680 mouse game with police. So he speaks to somebody that's 338 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:48.359 related to Avis, actually her uncle, Morris Goldman, or it 339 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.480 ends up he speaks to Marris Goldman tell us about that. 340 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:56.079 Well, he needs a legal representation, and it's interesting he 341 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.319 feels like he's being harassed by police because they told 342 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.119 him need to get a good defense attorney because your 343 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.440 story just doesn't add up. Meanwhile, you know, the police 344 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.079 are being harassed by you know, members of Tony Costa's 345 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:13.880 fan club, these acolytes, these disciples, these you know, I 346 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.000 mean Manson had his family, Tony Costa really at his 347 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.319 as well. So they were trying to stemy the investigation 348 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:21.599 anyway they could. 349 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.240 Now they find a young woman that has a very 350 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:29.160 very interesting story about going out with Tony Costa and 351 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.799 bow and arrow. Tell us about this story and what 352 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:33.680 police learn from this. 353 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.000 Well, she was the only victim attacked by Tony Costa 354 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.039 who lived to tell the tale again. A young you know, 355 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:45.480 beautiful teenager in Provincetown, lord to Tony Costa's marijuana garden, 356 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.920 if you will, in Wealthy and Truro, and she is 357 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.720 a shot with a bone and arrow, shot by an 358 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.640 arrow by Tony Costa, and she thinks it's an accident. 359 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.640 He wanted he took his bow and arrow out to 360 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:00.839 you know, fire it off in the woods, but targeted her, 361 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.160 you know, shot her in the back. And she revealed 362 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.480 this information to investigators, which ultimately led them, you know, 363 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:13.079 to that area in Truro where over time they were 364 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.480 able to discover more evidence that would you know, turn 365 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:21.119 a missing person's case into a murder case, a murder case. 366 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.000 Unlike anything that they've ever ever seen. 367 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.599 Tell us what they did find at this site. 368 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.400 Well, I mean they started to find bits and pieces 369 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:35.400 of identification from Patricia Walsh and Mary and Wasisaki, driver's licenses, 370 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.880 car registrations, Mary and Wisaki's handbag with. 371 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:41.279 Movie tickets in it. 372 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.319 So they know these women had gone missing in that 373 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.599 general area, and it didn't look like they had just 374 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.319 left the area like Tony Costa had basically told investigators 375 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.440 that these women took off and moved elsewhere. No, there, 376 00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.640 they were close by, and they were dead. So it 377 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:04.960 became aim a recovery mission at that point. And over time, 378 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:10.839 these investigators, Bernie Flynn and Tom Gunnery primarily were able 379 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.440 to identify the very spots where these women were buried, 380 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.319 and they were pulling out body parts from from you know, 381 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:24.720 shallow graves, encrusted dirt, and that's when they understood that 382 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.160 there were more victims here because the bodies of Susan 383 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.839 Perry and the bodies of Sidney Mansen were also buried 384 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:36.240 in that area. In fact, Sydney's body was buried alongside 385 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:37.799 Mary and Wassakis. 386 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:42.279 Now they arrest him for larceny for car theft, and 387 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.599 how do they proceed from there? And when does he 388 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.079 told that there are warrants for his murder, for murder, 389 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:49.880 for for murder. 390 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:54.160 Sure, when the bodies of Walsh and Wasaki are revealed, 391 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:58.240 that's when he is arrested for murder. And he still 392 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:03.440 has this incredible and this narcissism that allows him to 393 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.440 think that he's going to get out of this, and 394 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.440 he continues to baffle his defense attorneys, giving them, you know, 395 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:16.119 all these crazy stories of other killers, including his is Altrigo, 396 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.720 who happened to have the same name of a living 397 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.920 a teenager in Provincetown, and Tony Costa is blaming these 398 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.839 murders on this young man. So it compounds the investigation 399 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:31.519 for quite some time until state Trooper Gunnery finds the 400 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.480 murder weapons, which are a gun and a sharing knife. 401 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:40.000