Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: I think?
Speaker 3: What Welcome to the Occult Rejects. We've got a very
Speaker 3: very special episode tonight Friday Live Show, and I want
Speaker 3: it to be a good one. So I how to
Speaker 3: bring another role. I brought a gnostic onto the show.
Speaker 3: Everybody's favorite gnostic. You got Miguel Connor, also known as
Speaker 3: a on Bite. But before we introduced him, I'm going
Speaker 3: to introduce the other rejects. We got the occult, but
Speaker 3: we got the occult reject man scientist, Lisa, what is
Speaker 3: going on? How are you? Thank you very much for
Speaker 3: making this.
Speaker 4: You're muted, You're muted?
Speaker 3: And he did it again.
Speaker 1: I was muted.
Speaker 5: Okay, thank you for inviting me. I'm very interested to
Speaker 5: hear what you know but has to say, and I'm
Speaker 5: very very excited topics. So thank you for inviting me on.
Speaker 5: And hello to the fellow rechecks.
Speaker 3: So thank you very much for joining us, Lisa. I
Speaker 3: appreciate it. And we got my man, Jules. What is
Speaker 3: going on? Sir? Thank you very much.
Speaker 6: What's up, guys, It's good to be back after a
Speaker 6: couple of weeks. I'm Jules Host of the Great Pill Podcast.
Speaker 6: You find me on x at Great Pilled Pod, Rumble YouTube,
Speaker 6: all this place to go. Subscribe to me there. Patreon
Speaker 6: dot com says Great Pill Podcast. We're actually going live
Speaker 6: after this show watching twin Peaks. It's funny. We're doing
Speaker 6: a cult David Bowie tonight seeing he was in.
Speaker 4: Fire Walk with me.
Speaker 6: Very interesting because I think he wanted me in that movie. Anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it's it's it's it's good to be here on a
Speaker 6: Friday night.
Speaker 4: I hope everybody had a good week.
Speaker 6: Y'all go ahead and like the stream, share it and uh,
Speaker 6: let's let's fucking go.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you very much, Jules, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: And my man Ethan Ethan indgo, he made it. What
Speaker 3: is going on? So please let everybody know what's up
Speaker 3: with you and your books.
Speaker 7: Honored to be here.
Speaker 8: If anyone missed Micgill's presentation on Elvis.
Speaker 9: You gotta check it out. It was amazing. I know
Speaker 9: this is gonna be dope.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm an author, I'm on all the social media,
Speaker 8: easy to find, and my book's most popular one, Geometry
Speaker 8: of Energy, easy to find as well.
Speaker 9: So yeah, I'm stoke to be here with everyone.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, thank you, Ethan. I appreciate it. I'm glad
Speaker 3: you made it. My man and my boy Tyrone. What
Speaker 3: is going on, sir?
Speaker 10: It was going on everybody. I appreciate it for being here. Nick,
Speaker 10: thank you so much. You know, it's always a pleasure
Speaker 10: of being here, an honor to be here.
Speaker 3: I should say.
Speaker 10: Everything you can find on me is on rebirth at
Speaker 10: the word dot com. Yes, definitely go and get Ethan's book.
Speaker 10: We got to finish out the discussion with him.
Speaker 1: His books are great. I love his books.
Speaker 10: I'm definitely promoting that every time. You can also find
Speaker 10: my book Journey through the Origins of History on Amazon.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it to be here, and thank.
Speaker 3: You of course, of course, sir and my man Tim Constantine.
Speaker 3: What is going on?
Speaker 1: Sir?
Speaker 3: From sixth Century Podcasts. Please let everybody know what is up?
Speaker 2: Hey, Nick, what's up? I love everyone here tonight. Happy
Speaker 2: to do this. I love this concept for this show.
Speaker 2: I talked to somebody about a month ago about doing
Speaker 2: this and it fell through, so I'm excited to do
Speaker 2: it on here. This is great cult David Bowie Let's
Speaker 2: go Yeah. Sixth Century Podcast YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and Patreon
Speaker 2: and thanks again, Nick.
Speaker 3: No, of course, I'm glad. I'm glad it worked out
Speaker 3: like that. It's pretty funny how it's like it canceled
Speaker 3: then then one day you just got an email of
Speaker 3: me inviting you to a show for You're like, what
Speaker 3: the fuck? Yeah, is magic fucking around? But uh now,
Speaker 3: before we introduced the guest, somebody already said it in
Speaker 3: the chat. They beat me to it. If you have
Speaker 3: not heard the Occult Elvis that Miguel did on the
Speaker 3: Occult Rejects, fucking check it out.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: Honestly, it was probably one of my most fun and
Speaker 3: mind blowing shows. Like he literally had everybody like, go
Speaker 3: what the fuck? I didn't know Elvis was into that
Speaker 3: it was doing that, go check that out and check
Speaker 3: out the book. But tonight we got him on for
Speaker 3: another person. That is somebody that I'm sure all of
Speaker 3: us here have brought up at some point with the
Speaker 3: occultism and with music, especially with me. I quote him
Speaker 3: a lot, which I'll probably throw in quotes and some
Speaker 3: random stuff about him as Miguel's going, but we are
Speaker 3: going to be talking about David Bowie, the occult David Bowie,
Speaker 3: So please Miguel, let everybody know what is up with
Speaker 3: you if they don't know who you are by now
Speaker 3: and where they can find all your amazing work.
Speaker 1: I go bunk over munch. I had to do that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we got some strange fascination here. Yeah, Miguel Connor,
Speaker 1: host of a bite gen X Wasteland and a host
Speaker 1: of am by Gnostic Radio. So that's really it, and
Speaker 1: should make the announcement that the book that I just
Speaker 1: wrote on David Bowie has been accepted by the publisher
Speaker 1: and official announcement here on ther Co Rechix. And of
Speaker 1: course don't get too excited. It will be out. It
Speaker 1: will probably, I've talked to them. It will be out
Speaker 1: in about a year because we've really only just begun.
Speaker 1: I've got the draft. There's going to be a lot
Speaker 1: of editing, copy editing, type setting, yeah, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole process. But it's there, and it's a I think
Speaker 1: a cult David Bowie's all had, because it is tentatively
Speaker 1: entitled The Gnostic David Bowie, because I think that's like Elvis.
Speaker 1: I mean, David Bowie's occultism is so well known, but
Speaker 1: there's so much more. I think the world has missed,
Speaker 1: and that's I think what this book will do. And
Speaker 1: I've shown it to again many people who are Bowie
Speaker 1: fans and occultists, and they've been blown away by it.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I hope this is it, because
Speaker 1: as I told you, I told you guys, the the
Speaker 1: Elvis book was completely channeled or called. The voice came
Speaker 1: in my head, and when I was done with I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, that's my fifteen minutes of fame as
Speaker 1: a biography to me, Yeah, yeah, I want to move on.
Speaker 1: I just want to move on, Go work for Masade
Speaker 1: or you know, something respectable, move on with my life.
Speaker 1: And suddenly, as soon as yeah, yeah, I was done
Speaker 1: it with the book, another voice came and said, you
Speaker 1: forgot about Elvis two point oh. I was like, there's
Speaker 1: no Elvis two point oh. And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's it's David Bowie. They're the same character.
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, let's go down this rabbit hole
Speaker 1: and boom, just everything opened up. So I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's an Elvis three point oh. Please
Speaker 1: let there not be an Elvis three point oh. Because
Speaker 1: these books train you and when you're these forces channel you.
Speaker 1: They take their pound or flesh, your mental health, your
Speaker 1: physical health, every your your life gets upturned. You turn down,
Speaker 1: you know, work, family, all that. It's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a brutal process. Rewarding but brutal.
Speaker 3: I want to bang my head against the wall right
Speaker 3: in like forty pages of like slop, like imagine like
Speaker 3: I had to be like three hundred pages in a book.
Speaker 3: I feel like, fuck this. You know, so I give
Speaker 3: you credit, but man, that's it's impressive stuff to do that. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know what's funny. I remember when you had said
Speaker 3: that you were done. Oh that was like, you know,
Speaker 3: you're fifteen minutes of fame. And then I think I
Speaker 3: had seen you start all of a sudden post like
Speaker 3: not obsessively, but like a lot on David Bowie. And
Speaker 3: I was like, oh oh, and I think I even
Speaker 3: like saw you even started to make some announcement. They're
Speaker 3: saying something like I think it, and I was like,
Speaker 3: my man's going on with David Bowie. I can't wait
Speaker 3: to hear about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I probably don't remember posting that stuff. Yeah, ago
Speaker 1: you talked about the divine and the divine madness, where
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do as a human is
Speaker 1: being invaded or possessed by some god, the Muses or
Speaker 1: Dionysus or Apollo, and that's you're possessed and something good
Speaker 1: happens to it. But again there's a toll.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so I guess So what was it that?
Speaker 3: I mean, something popped into your head and it said
Speaker 3: David Bowie is the next one?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And I saw the parallels with Iam Elvis
Speaker 1: and they're just monumental. And there's several thesis that I
Speaker 1: have in the book. Again, one of them what you
Speaker 1: hear a lot about is Bowie was Bowie. He was
Speaker 1: a chameleon, he was innovative, and you know, you hear
Speaker 1: that shit all the time, but nobody ever says, well
Speaker 1: why you know? And I understand, you know, biographers are historians.
Speaker 1: Their job is not the why, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't even go there. Why was David Bowie David Bowie?
Speaker 1: So there is a lot that happened from both the
Speaker 1: stars and his life that turned him into David Bowie.
Speaker 1: The other one, too, is how gnostic he was. As
Speaker 1: you start breaking down his life unconsciously and consciously, he
Speaker 1: really was moved and inspired by gnosticism. It's almost like
Speaker 1: it's the entire thrust of his message and his worldview
Speaker 1: and so forth, and we can break some of them
Speaker 1: down if you want. And the other thing, too, is
Speaker 1: also Saturn. I realized that both Bowie and Elvis really
Speaker 1: were ruled by this being called Saturn. And in a way,
Speaker 1: Bowie told me David, I need to call him David.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call him. I always call him by his
Speaker 1: first name. That he's still trapped in another dimension that
Speaker 1: he left. And of course I make the argument with
Speaker 1: Blackstar where he gave us this message of the world,
Speaker 1: his ideas, and how Saturn is really controlling things and
Speaker 1: he's still sort of stuck there and him we need
Speaker 1: to bring him back because his entire life is this
Speaker 1: almost ritual, this mystery religion, gnostic ritual after ritual. It's
Speaker 1: more than his personas. These are actually rituals that he
Speaker 1: did that lasted for years. And yeah, I think those
Speaker 1: four things really reveal a brand new vision of Bowie,
Speaker 1: and nobody's ever really written a cult Bowie. There's The
Speaker 1: Tao of Bowie, which is a good book, but he
Speaker 1: focuses Edwards focuses more on his Eastern interests. And then
Speaker 1: there's a book coming out I think in January by
Speaker 1: Peter Ormergard called which is Bowie's Quest for God. But
Speaker 1: it's more metaphysical, you know. I bring in the occult
Speaker 1: as UFO experiences his conspiracy theories. I try. I bring
Speaker 1: in I see the lenses through why Bowie was David
Speaker 1: was working in these things and what happened in his life,
Speaker 1: and I just throw everything in and this will be
Speaker 1: all in the book.
Speaker 3: I forgot he wasn't to conspiracies. The interviews I saw
Speaker 3: like he did on TV and he would say like
Speaker 3: conspiratorial shit. I forgot there was something he was going
Speaker 3: on about, and I was like, oh wow, he was
Speaker 3: saying there like shit. People get famous on Instagram for
Speaker 3: saying that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. And in some of it,
Speaker 1: of course, was when he was I mean most people
Speaker 1: know in the seventies, when you know, the cocaine started
Speaker 1: rotting his brain and he went off and started embracing
Speaker 1: Nazi occultism and saying things like, you know, England needs
Speaker 1: a figure like Hitler. And Hitler was history's first rock
Speaker 1: star and allegedly gave a Nazi salute before Elon Musk
Speaker 1: and all that. He gave a Nazi salute and got
Speaker 1: like just lambasted by the press, and he was, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was. He was into some and of course the
Speaker 1: whole alien thing. He always thought aliens were there and
Speaker 1: they were controlling the world and he was completely out
Speaker 1: of control for a while and it happened.
Speaker 2: Did he start Did he have a UFO magazine that
Speaker 2: he put out early on, like before the cocaine brain run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the late sixties he was part of a
Speaker 1: magazine and he would do in London and his flat
Speaker 1: or in some building. He would sit there all night
Speaker 1: with a telescope with others looking for UFOs and he
Speaker 1: saw plenty of them over the skies. He had plenty
Speaker 1: experiences later on while he was touring and all that.
Speaker 1: And then there's the famous story where he he was
Speaker 1: doing an interview and this is in the eighties. I
Speaker 1: think he was done with cocaine. But he like freezes
Speaker 1: and he looks out and he's like seeing something weird,
Speaker 1: and his nose just starts bleeding. And of course, if
Speaker 1: you read to a Whitley Strieber's communion when the visitors come,
Speaker 1: that's one of the signs is a nosebleed. So and
Speaker 1: there's more with you know him and extra terrestrials. They
Speaker 1: were like they were really part of his life.
Speaker 4: Yeah. You seem to be the same with Elvis too, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, Elvis had three encounter and was a huge
Speaker 1: UFO guy, reading up on the literature and all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: both were obsessed with the whole extraterrestrial thing.
Speaker 7: You know, there's a story I came across and you
Speaker 7: just jogged it in my memory.
Speaker 2: I heard it on the podcast a long time ago,
Speaker 2: but it was is the story out of Detroit that
Speaker 2: Bowie was on tour and he was playing Detroit and
Speaker 2: Detroit was having a UFO wave at the moment he
Speaker 2: pulled in there.
Speaker 7: So he did like basically what you said.
Speaker 2: I guess he went out and got a telescope or
Speaker 2: he already had the telescope and they were they set
Speaker 2: it up in the limo and they used to they
Speaker 2: opened up the limo sun roof and they were looking
Speaker 2: for UFOs in the limo on the way out of Detroit.
Speaker 7: Great, great story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he would he would do that like traveling
Speaker 1: Minnesota and they, like Elvis, he had this thing about
Speaker 1: flying so he would drive or take boats or trains
Speaker 1: and all that. But he did that and that even
Speaker 1: during the show he was asking people, if you have
Speaker 1: any information on the UFO, let me know, let me no. Now.
Speaker 1: Of course, a few days later the government debunked it,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure there was more. I'm sure David was
Speaker 1: right and something had happened.
Speaker 3: One thing I did when I mentioned before, we kind
Speaker 3: of got a little bit off of it. But you
Speaker 3: had mentioned cocaine, and I think even earlier you kind
Speaker 3: of mentioned like, oh, you know, like I guess, like
Speaker 3: David Bowie reinventing himself. People like, oh, it's just him
Speaker 3: like being silly or whatever. I feel like a lot
Speaker 3: of artists, the drugs just get thrown as an excuse
Speaker 3: for them actually rather being an intelligent or occultists. I
Speaker 3: think like when they do weird stuff, they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: it must have been the heroine of the cocaine. You know,
Speaker 3: they party, so that's why they said that or did that.
Speaker 3: I think just that's a lot of times I think
Speaker 3: that unfortunately takes place for all the things. I just
Speaker 3: wanted to throw that in there. I think like even
Speaker 3: with David Bowie, I think it. Even when he did
Speaker 3: a station to station I mean that was a huge
Speaker 3: time when the I think he said, like he was
Speaker 3: basically doing coke canes year straight, so some crazy shit
Speaker 3: like that. The whole album. There's some deeply a culted
Speaker 3: shit in that one. I mean he even mentions from
Speaker 3: Catherine to malcouth. So I mean, if you're gonna like
Speaker 3: look at that as like, oh, that just must be
Speaker 3: cocaine's like os is, you never gonna understand what the
Speaker 3: fuck he was saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's for sure. I mean he was He was
Speaker 1: never a drug guy in the sixties a spliff here,
Speaker 1: some acid there, and then in like the early seventies
Speaker 1: he and Angie were actually anti drugs, speak out publicly
Speaker 1: and the problems they were drinking and drugging, and they
Speaker 1: didn't do drugs. The problem is he got caught in
Speaker 1: that I need to work harder, so I'll do cocaine.
Speaker 1: So I'm going make morning. So, you know, because he
Speaker 1: was not just a star, but he was also a producer,
Speaker 1: a media guy. You know, he was producing the actorg Pop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was producing Iggy Pop's albums. You know, he did
Speaker 1: Lou Reed's famous what Transformer album. I mean he was
Speaker 1: working around the so he started doing cocaine so he
Speaker 1: could stay up all night in the studio and tour.
Speaker 1: And eventually it just got it got the best of him.
Speaker 1: And he wasn't doing like the shit cocaine that all
Speaker 1: of us did when we were young. He was doing
Speaker 1: the Keith Richards. It was this just perfect great cocaine
Speaker 1: where he just did a bump in for eight hours,
Speaker 1: he'd beat the loose, flying out, yeah, whatever it was.
Speaker 1: And eventually, yeah, he had a diet of Pepper's milk
Speaker 1: and cocaine. That was it. He was like a skeleton
Speaker 1: and he would appear in the Dick Cavage Show just
Speaker 1: talking about all these weird occult things and freaking people
Speaker 1: out and sniffing and all that. He was a complete disaster.
Speaker 1: But somehow he kept putting out just amazing albums, like
Speaker 1: you said, Stas in the Station, Young Americans, Diamond Dogs.
Speaker 1: He was just part of him was still able to
Speaker 1: create great art and very occult art. But he also
Speaker 1: became obsessed with a cult like stories of him staying
Speaker 1: in his La house. Yeah, that was the great story
Speaker 1: out of you know coke addicts think is like he
Speaker 1: got so paranoid, and he got into a magical battle
Speaker 1: with Jimmy Page and others, and he kept thinking lou
Speaker 1: Reed as the devil and witches were trying to get
Speaker 1: a semen or to create some moonchild, and he got
Speaker 1: so paranoid in New York, so very smartly, he moves
Speaker 1: from New York to the La Cocaine cold capital of
Speaker 1: the United States, LA. And then it gets worse and he's,
Speaker 1: you know, when he's not doing music and stuff, he's
Speaker 1: just sitting in his house just like you know, watching
Speaker 1: Nazi documentaries and scrying kabalistic and a could sigils all
Speaker 1: over his house and driving around and casting spells. I
Speaker 1: mean he was. And then there's a famous story where
Speaker 1: he thought that there was a demon, that Satan was
Speaker 1: at the bottom of his pool and he calls his wife, Angie,
Speaker 1: and Angie comes over and she's she Angie was basically
Speaker 1: an atheist, and she Angie was like, yes, there was
Speaker 1: this ink at the bottom, this evil thing moving around
Speaker 1: like some Lovecraftian.
Speaker 4: Thing and terrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Angie's like, well, should we call it? You know,
Speaker 1: a should we call like a priest? And I don't
Speaker 1: want any press about this, so Angie has to look
Speaker 1: up all these exorcism prayers and he and Angie do
Speaker 1: this exorcism prayer and this evil disappears from the bottom
Speaker 1: of the pool. So it's there's so much more. But yeah,
Speaker 1: his seventies were pretty wild.
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's that.
Speaker 2: Story you mentioned, like he was, I guess worried about
Speaker 2: which is getting his semen. And there's a story I
Speaker 2: read about that. I think it's in Angie's biography. I
Speaker 2: don't remember the name of the book. I've got a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of rock books over there, and it's in
Speaker 2: one of those rock books. But she she does like
Speaker 2: a hotel on that whole entire situation.
Speaker 7: And he was on a he was on a bench.
Speaker 2: In la and he called her because he thought he
Speaker 2: was being held captive by these warlocks. And they finally
Speaker 2: get him to go out and uh, they get him
Speaker 2: to go out into the street and get a cab
Speaker 2: and go to his new manager's house, and then they
Speaker 2: have to like lock him in a room or I
Speaker 2: think he even locked himself in a room because he
Speaker 2: was so paranoid. And Angie calls up the Rock Rider
Speaker 2: for Circus magazine. Uh, Mollie and gives She's like she
Speaker 2: was like a go kind of a witch, right, so
Speaker 2: she gives them like some sort of a ritual dude
Speaker 2: to sort of break break him out of this bender.
Speaker 7: It's wild, but that was but that was Angie's own words.
Speaker 2: She said that, like, nobody knows if these Warlocks are
Speaker 2: really wanted to they wanted He said that they wanted
Speaker 2: to have a child with him, and like a spawn
Speaker 2: of Satan type of a situation.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, yeah, definitely, And that's in my book
Speaker 1: and other instances. Again, plenty of witnesses, whether whether it's
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger or John Lennon, ja saw Bowie just going
Speaker 1: completely insane, completely into this dark magic, into you know,
Speaker 1: Nazi occultism. He became obsessed with like Mourning of the
Speaker 1: Magicians by Lewis Powells and The Spear of Destiny by
Speaker 1: Trevor Raven's Court and all this sort of very dark
Speaker 1: literature at the time, and it just it consumed him.
Speaker 1: And that's why he created his persona, the Thin White Duke,
Speaker 1: because this guy was just an evil fascist and that
Speaker 1: was the persona that gave us Station to Station and
Speaker 1: all that. It was.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, well was there anybody to him keeping your
Speaker 5: en in the refrigerator.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we have eyewitnesses to that plenty,
Speaker 1: and toenails and nails too. Yeah. He was afraid that
Speaker 1: some witches would grab it and you know, create a
Speaker 1: clone out of him or use it for spells or something.
Speaker 6: So it was yeah, that sounds crazy then, but now,
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, it's pretty believable.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Italians believe that where you know, in the mafia.
Speaker 10: If you watch a lot of Mafia movies, the women
Speaker 10: they when they do it, the clipping of the fingernails
Speaker 10: and toenails, they usually collected and throw it away.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody actually they burn them. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Sopranos actually shows that in one of the episodes. Yeah,
Speaker 10: they burn them and get rid of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Hispanics time the same thing about hair yep, Spain yep.
Speaker 3: So what I wanted to ask, uh, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you want to get into it too, bunch, but uh,
Speaker 3: I think for David Bowie when he first kind of
Speaker 3: started getting into that stuff, Like I could be wrong,
Speaker 3: but was he more of into like Tibetan Buddhism at first?
Speaker 3: That's what kind of like got him into.
Speaker 1: World. Let's see what started David Bowie was being born
Speaker 1: where he was born. He was born in Brixton right
Speaker 1: after World War two, and that place was a dystopia.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, unlike the United States, England
Speaker 1: came out of World War two as a fallen empire
Speaker 1: that was cooked, it was done, and it was like
Speaker 1: living in it was a dystopia. It was his ashes ruins,
Speaker 1: it was a food rationing, No electricity was barely on.
Speaker 1: Kids had to play in bombshelters. And that's the world
Speaker 1: that David Bowie grew up and it really affected him.
Speaker 1: The other thing too was his mother, like Elvis's mother,
Speaker 1: had kind of a second sight, but she was also
Speaker 1: abusive like Elvis' mother, so it really crushed him. But
Speaker 1: she also taught him that he had special powers, telepathy powers,
Speaker 1: and he did. He had psychic powers, as I show
Speaker 1: in the book, whether he was doing tero or other things,
Speaker 1: he could he really could see through the veil of reality.
Speaker 1: And he came from a family. I Elvis came from
Speaker 1: a family probably with some sort of magicians. He all
Speaker 1: same with David, but also schizophrenia. He had three ants.
Speaker 1: There were schizophrenic. One of them had a lobotomy. His
Speaker 1: brother who he loved, who really opened the world. His
Speaker 1: half brother who was older, Terry opened him to the
Speaker 1: world of alternative music and art and all that, also
Speaker 1: had schizophrenia. So like Elvis lost his twin brother Bot,
Speaker 1: David lost his big brother who was his idol to schizophrenia,
Speaker 1: so that insanity was always chasing him. And as I write,
Speaker 1: he might have been all his personas was him either
Speaker 1: already schizophrenic, trying to deal with it, or running away
Speaker 1: from schizophrenia. It's like, if I change my ego, this
Speaker 1: disease that's getting my own family won't get to me.
Speaker 1: But I mean, things like sci fi really sparked him.
Speaker 1: But one of the main ones has to be when
Speaker 1: Terry opened him up to the beat writers. The one
Speaker 1: David really liked was William Burrows. He loved William Burrows,
Speaker 1: he loved his mythology, his worldview, and in fact Burrows
Speaker 1: has just infused in all of his early albums like
Speaker 1: The Men Who Fell to Earth, Hunky Dory, Ziggy Stardus,
Speaker 1: and definitely Diamond Dogs, although Orwell is in Diamond Dogs too,
Speaker 1: but as many people know, Burrows himself was open about
Speaker 1: being a gnostic, and his worldview was very gnostic idea
Speaker 1: that were fallen by these terrible creatures that we've fallen asleep.
Speaker 1: We got to wake up and all these things that
Speaker 1: Burrows had which had gnostic worldview, and David certainly adopted
Speaker 1: these for his albums. And Burrows was very hardcore because
Speaker 1: his gnosticism was kind of a Diy gnosticism, in other words,
Speaker 1: in classical gnosticism, or Philip K. Dick, which he and
Speaker 1: Bowie Dick and Bowie and David have a history or
Speaker 1: a connection too, just as with David Lynch. But in
Speaker 1: Burrows thought in classicalism Philip K. Dick, yes, we are
Speaker 1: trapped by the Arkons and we're in this terrible nightmare,
Speaker 1: this fallen dystopian world. But there is Sophia or Jesus
Speaker 1: or Hermes trismic easters that comes to wake us up.
Speaker 1: With Burrows, there is none of that. They are no saviors.
Speaker 1: It's us against the Arkans. So it's a lot more hardcore,
Speaker 1: and you see that in David's music and a lot
Speaker 1: of his lyrics and all that. But and Burrows is
Speaker 1: a lot more violent. Burrows believed you know, it's not
Speaker 1: about detaching and being mystic. It's about killing the servants
Speaker 1: of the Arkans. And we got to get into gangs,
Speaker 1: and the awaken people must go and just slaughter these
Speaker 1: these gangs, these horrible people who are trapped, who are
Speaker 1: servants of the Arkans. He called them the shits, and
Speaker 1: they ask him, well, how do you know what's a shit? Well,
Speaker 1: because they're basically like Karens, people who are always in
Speaker 1: your business are trying to put mind parasites in your head.
Speaker 1: You believe, also Burrows, and that you have mind parasites,
Speaker 1: which is very gnostic. So Burrows really got him off spiritually.
Speaker 1: And like you said, then in the sixties late sixties
Speaker 1: he started getting really serious about Tibetan Buddhism, which I
Speaker 1: argue in the book is Tibetan Buddhism and Gnosticism are
Speaker 1: kindred of their brothers, the idea of the illusionary world
Speaker 1: and inner revelation and trying to break open from things.
Speaker 1: And he was very serious. Like Elvis, he almost quit
Speaker 1: the music industry to become a monk. So you got Burrows,
Speaker 1: you got Tibetan Buddhism. Nietzsche too, really starts influencing him him.
Speaker 1: But he liked the gnostic part of Nietzsche, the Death
Speaker 1: of God of Nietzsche, because he started thinking, oh, God
Speaker 1: is dead. We killed him and he started wondering, well,
Speaker 1: who's going to be God? And David would think, we
Speaker 1: will be the next God. So he had this idea
Speaker 1: of a potheosis of becoming divine beings, which was which
Speaker 1: was really very gnostic. But the other one too, the
Speaker 1: big one, is really Stanley Kubrick's two thousand and one
Speaker 1: A Space Odyssey, because Bowie got took some ascid and
Speaker 1: he went to see the movie and it completely changed him.
Speaker 1: He became a very different person. And as Steven Snyder
Speaker 1: Recluse argues in his book Minotaur, Kubrick never had wanted
Speaker 1: two thousand and one to be a sci fi movie.
Speaker 1: It was actually an ascension ritual, a neoplatonic gnostic ascension ritual.
Speaker 1: In fact, he told, you know, what's the name of
Speaker 1: the author God, the author of the book who wrote
Speaker 1: the book. Oh my god, I'm drawing a blank. But
Speaker 1: the author of the novel two thousand and one A
Speaker 1: Space Odyssey told him, this is not a sci fi movie.
Speaker 1: This is a magic spell. And of course Kubrick was
Speaker 1: very influenced by mystery religion and was into Campbell and
Speaker 1: all that. So Bowie was able to catch also that
Speaker 1: this was a magic spell and that really influenced him
Speaker 1: to do Space Odyssey, which is a song about ascension
Speaker 1: and breaking open from the material world. So all those
Speaker 1: things really theologically and very gnostic, influenced Bowie to the
Speaker 1: late sixties and the seventies. And there's a lot more,
Speaker 1: but I'm getting carried away. Yeah, the end of Space
Speaker 1: Arthur C. Clark, Sorry, Arthur C. Clark. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 2: That ending of that movie seems to depict some sort
Speaker 2: of a take on apatheosis.
Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, And Steven Schneyder makes such a good
Speaker 1: argument and he puts it all there, and I agree.
Speaker 1: And again David, being very intuitive, also saw this between
Speaker 1: Burrows and Kubrick and Tibetan Buddhism, and even by the
Speaker 1: seventy he knew of Yung and he even mentions Yung
Speaker 1: and I think Aladdinsane Jung the Foreman, and before he
Speaker 1: has a song called shadow Man. So all these currents
Speaker 1: really start influencing David. And then in the seventies, occultism
Speaker 1: kind of makes a comeback, right well, even before Crowley
Speaker 1: becomes very big again. You know, Crowley isn't Sergeant Pepper's
Speaker 1: Lonely Hearts Club. Then Cover, so is Yung, so is Burrows.
Speaker 1: But this starts the sort of hippie dippy new age
Speaker 1: goes away and more boiler played occultism comes in, and
Speaker 1: people like David and Jimmy Page anothers start embracing this
Speaker 1: more hardcore occultism, which also influences his music and his worldview.
Speaker 3: We some of the well, I mean, I think it's
Speaker 3: David Bowie's music was different, but I guess even some
Speaker 3: of the bands around that time that I would say
Speaker 3: would be a little bit more openly with the occult
Speaker 3: even the music was a little bit harder. That was
Speaker 3: I kind of like when I feel like a kind
Speaker 3: of getting into harder rock from the Beatles. I mean,
Speaker 3: even though the Beatles was rocket whatever, But I just see.
Speaker 6: A progression sole in it, you know, like more of
Speaker 6: these people that had more of their like you know,
Speaker 6: I guess you could say pieces of their soul and
Speaker 6: their art kind of not like you don't see that today,
Speaker 6: And on these these artists today are dog shit.
Speaker 2: So I think some of the artists were working directly
Speaker 2: with William Burrows on a few occasions. I mean, I
Speaker 2: know you Too put him in a video and it
Speaker 2: was seen as this like very edgy, esoteric type of
Speaker 2: move for that band to do that.
Speaker 7: But I think that other bands are working with Burrows.
Speaker 2: So I'm wondering if like Bowie actually made contact with him.
Speaker 1: He did, he did. He Burrows interviewed him for Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone I think seventy three, and of course, you know,
Speaker 1: David was just so happy and they had a very
Speaker 1: long chat and David talks about, you know, the how
Speaker 1: Ziggy's startist came. You know, again very gnostic, it's alien
Speaker 1: force that comes down on earth and so forth and
Speaker 1: all that. But yeah, it was a David was so
Speaker 1: happy to me to chat to his idol.
Speaker 5: Speaking speaking of Burrows, one thing that just sparked right now,
Speaker 5: and we've talked before. Burrows attended the school for boys
Speaker 5: in Los Alamos down in New Mexico early on in life,
Speaker 5: and he was part of that Oppenheimer group of boys
Speaker 5: of schooled or whatever they were doing. And what's interesting
Speaker 5: is that when we look at that area nineteen forty
Speaker 5: seven is very symbolic everything from Roswell to the creation
Speaker 5: of Cia.
Speaker 1: And you know, David was born that.
Speaker 5: I was just about to say that. And what's interesting
Speaker 5: is that nine months prior, in nineteen forty six, we
Speaker 5: had the Babylon working somewhere down the road, and then
Speaker 5: we have Bowie being born in January of nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 5: So anyway, I thought that was kind of intrigued.
Speaker 3: Did anybody else have any questions?
Speaker 7: What about Kerorawuac? I know, Burroughs, Allen Ginsburg, Carawak, they
Speaker 7: seem to be in that circle together.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he really loved On the Road. That was
Speaker 1: probably one of his favorite novels growing up, for sure,
Speaker 1: but for a ken and he really liked Burroughs, or
Speaker 1: he liked Burrows again worldview, sci fi, gnostic reality, this
Speaker 1: nightmare world where we're trapped and whatever in Burroughs. I mean,
Speaker 1: as scholars, I've discovered, you know, the whole Mayan thing
Speaker 1: was really Burrows, the whole Ayahuasca thing was Burroughs. He
Speaker 1: was so so he was really ahead of the times
Speaker 1: before McKenna and all those. Burrows was doing all of
Speaker 1: this stuff. Of course, he's he's a very complex and
Speaker 1: jaded individual, but he was certainly very innovative and ahead
Speaker 1: of the times.
Speaker 6: Didn't you say earlier that you think that that you
Speaker 6: think that Bowie is in some kind of other dimension
Speaker 6: or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he told me. I mean, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm getting. I mean that's you guys. Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: guys have seen the memes like and I remember feeling
Speaker 1: the same thing when Bowie, when David died in twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen with January tenth. I was like, it's part of
Speaker 1: me said, man, reality is going to go to shit.
Speaker 1: And now you see the memes like reality you just
Speaker 1: look up on Google. Reality has gone to shit since
Speaker 1: David Bowie died. And I think it's true. I think,
Speaker 1: like Elvis, he was holding up part of our reality,
Speaker 1: our imagination, artistic soul and without a miscollapse. And it's
Speaker 1: like we need bring him back.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very interesting that you say that, because, like
Speaker 6: I had brought up earlier, he was friends with Lynch
Speaker 6: and you know he went to him for a role
Speaker 6: in Firewalk with Me and he got the role of
Speaker 6: agent Philip Jefferies, which was one of the smallest roles
Speaker 6: in the movie, but had some of the biggest significance
Speaker 6: because you see his character in the Return. You don't
Speaker 6: see you don't see Bowie, but you see it's kind
Speaker 6: of like his voice maybe, but he basically ends up
Speaker 6: being stuck in the Black Lodge and never escapes. Was
Speaker 6: that like some kind of revelation of the method of
Speaker 6: him saying, like, hey, guys, just so you know, I'm
Speaker 6: going here when I die or I don't know.
Speaker 1: And even in Black Star. Black Star is a very
Speaker 1: Gnostic ritual that has the Fall and again I'm drawing
Speaker 1: from scholars which has the fall of Sophia and the
Speaker 1: demiurge and the fallen world. It's all there, symbolical and
Speaker 1: Lazar and Black Star, and I think he is confessing
Speaker 1: because a lot of times he has like a veil
Speaker 1: over his eyes, and the Gnostics used to call the
Speaker 1: Demiir's the blind god Samael and you know, appears in
Speaker 1: the Kabbala. There's all these hints and it's almost like
Speaker 1: he's saying, not only my life, I didn't do the
Speaker 1: right thing totally, but I may be sold out, but
Speaker 1: now I'm trapped with Saturn. You know, there's all these
Speaker 1: hints from Lynch to Black Star. And again that's before
Speaker 1: I even did the research. That's what he told me.
Speaker 4: Fascinating.
Speaker 8: Miguel, you've done a really good job of finding these
Speaker 8: personal stories and getting some kind of verification from other people.
Speaker 9: I noticed in your last book and this one as
Speaker 9: you've spoken, I wonder what were some of the more
Speaker 9: poignant personal stories that you might have found, whether in
Speaker 9: his youth maybe that influenced him more in his adulted
Speaker 9: in his fame.
Speaker 1: God, there's so many I mean, because David live what
Speaker 1: twenty seven years more than Elvis, so there's so many anecdotes,
Speaker 1: and some of them are really funny and some of
Speaker 1: I mean. And he was such a rascal. I mean,
Speaker 1: his favorite concept was like, it's not stealing if I
Speaker 1: could make it better, because he was always ripping people off.
Speaker 1: He had no shame. I mean, there was like a
Speaker 1: story like, never show David your new boots because he
Speaker 1: will steal them. Wear them, Tell him he bought them,
Speaker 1: and that it's a new style. He's like, he could
Speaker 1: care less. He was terrible at stealing, and he stole
Speaker 1: guitar players from other bands and all that is, you know,
Speaker 1: like Elvis, he was kind of a trickster figure. But anecdotes.
Speaker 1: The one that makes me laugh is, you guys have
Speaker 1: seen that video Ashes to Ashes right where he's on
Speaker 1: the beach with the clown and all that, and it
Speaker 1: shows Major Tom and all that. But he's doing this
Speaker 1: video in the early eighties on the beach in England
Speaker 1: and he's got his clown outfit and that, and some
Speaker 1: old guy walks by with a dog and gets in
Speaker 1: the shot and the director's like, ah, cut, cut, and
Speaker 1: he says take five. Everybody rest because this old man
Speaker 1: is with his dog blocking the scene. And David sits
Speaker 1: down and of course lights a cigarette because he smoked
Speaker 1: like five packs a day. What was his famous line,
Speaker 1: I can ask for a cigarette in every language of
Speaker 1: the world. And so he and the director goes to
Speaker 1: the old man. He goes, do you know who this is?
Speaker 1: And the old man looks at David Bowie looks up
Speaker 1: and then yes, I recognize him. That's a cunt in
Speaker 1: a clown suit. And David just starts laughing and he
Speaker 1: felt so humble because he's like, you know what, most
Speaker 1: of the world doesn't know who I am. I really
Speaker 1: am just a cunt in a clownsuit. I'm really nobody
Speaker 1: when it comes down, and I think, what's the other line?
Speaker 1: He said, I got it. I've changed so many times.
Speaker 1: I think my original my original identity was an overweight
Speaker 1: Korean woman. So he has so many anecdotes and funny things.
Speaker 1: He could say.
Speaker 3: One thing I did want to ask you about from
Speaker 3: your dating is I'm sure you looked into it. I
Speaker 3: don't know if it was for sure that he was
Speaker 3: a member or he practiced it. But was he was
Speaker 3: he influencing? Did he practice golden doing stuff?
Speaker 1: He probably he did a lot of ceremonial magic, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't a member. It was all everything he did
Speaker 1: he did pretty much on his own. And he kind
Speaker 1: of winged it again, scrying stuff, doing rituals. It's hard
Speaker 1: to say. I know when it started with Jimmy Page.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page came to his apartment. No, he went to
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page's apartment and he had his girlfriend at the time.
Speaker 1: I've a cherry and uh, Jimmy Page knocked down some
Speaker 1: wine and blamed the girlfriend of knocking down the wine,
Speaker 1: and David got really pissed off. So he does this
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Page looks back, and David's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: he's casting some spell on me. So they sit there
Speaker 1: locked gazes, was doing spells on each other for a
Speaker 1: long time, kind of like something out of Zoolander, you know,
Speaker 1: like you know, doing that eyeballing each other. And then
Speaker 1: Jimmy Page leaves and David's like, he's going to cast
Speaker 1: a spell on me, and he rushes to the library
Speaker 1: or the bookstore and walks out with dozens of book
Speaker 1: on magic spells, and he's like reading and doing all
Speaker 1: these spells. He was convinced that Jimmy was going to
Speaker 1: try and destroy him, and again that was ding his
Speaker 1: cocaine day, so he was just it's probably very little
Speaker 1: he didn't try at the time.
Speaker 3: That is funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he wasn't Zoolander, obviously, he was in the
Speaker 1: movie Zoolander. He was.
Speaker 4: He was. He was one of the modeling uh, one
Speaker 4: of the.
Speaker 1: Judges, one of the judges.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3: Another thing I wanted to sorry, go ahead to him ahead.
Speaker 7: I was just thinking about the Zoolander park.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget what what Miguel just laid out, like
Speaker 2: those two pit pages at each other, like like they're
Speaker 2: about to have a wizard's men.
Speaker 1: Like Hansol and Zoolander looking at each other. It was
Speaker 1: like that. It was insane. Yeah, I think it's darkest
Speaker 1: spell probably was giving us dancing in the streets with
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger. That was probably his darkest evil thing you did.
Speaker 3: When it comes to like a lot of these uh
Speaker 3: you like when they say he reinvented himself or he
Speaker 3: has these different characters, do you think like sometimes those
Speaker 3: could be like expressions of him having like maybe a
Speaker 3: magical experience or some sort of ntainment and understanding of
Speaker 3: him just taking on his experience and expressing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you say that again. I make the argument and
Speaker 1: I break down these mystery religion schools about purification and
Speaker 1: going down into hades and ascension, and I put him
Speaker 1: with David's life and how they change with each of
Speaker 1: his personas. But like I said, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it, and it's been noted before, is like he
Speaker 1: was so afraid beyond you know, magic and archons and
Speaker 1: extraterrestrials and superhuman Nazi races getting him. He was afraid
Speaker 1: he was going to go insane. And I think he
Speaker 1: felt if he switched his personality, he could be one
Speaker 1: step away from the schizophrenia that had devastated his family.
Speaker 1: Others have pointed out that when he started doing Tibetan Buddhism,
Speaker 1: which he was very serious and he talks about, you know,
Speaker 1: not just doing meditational but he could levitate and see
Speaker 1: beyond the veil. He was very passionate about his Tibetan
Speaker 1: Buddhism and magic. But Buddhism taught him that, you know,
Speaker 1: if the selfs illusion, then why not have some fun
Speaker 1: with it because it's not real. And it was after
Speaker 1: that you could see him sort of changing. He decided, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not real, so I'm going to change my persona.
Speaker 1: There's no David Jones or David Bowie or Ziggy. These
Speaker 1: are just things. These are just images construct Yeah, we
Speaker 1: play that aren't real that might help us with our
Speaker 1: inner world.
Speaker 3: It's just whatever mask we put on the stage.
Speaker 6: Asked a movie I was thinking about Labyrinth, what significance
Speaker 6: is that? I mean, I know, it's very you know,
Speaker 6: as they talk about dark magic and all that. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's basically portraying who he is in a way, right,
Speaker 6: he's this dark magician.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, in the cave. Yeah, somebody put Afraid of Americans.
Speaker 1: That was what eighties and nineties. He's very conscious about gnosticism,
Speaker 1: and he's telling people in interviews, I'm just interested in
Speaker 1: gnosticism and the God above God. And obviously a song
Speaker 1: Afraid of Americans is very gnostic. God is an American
Speaker 1: and it is this horrible being. But on a side note,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think Labyrinth, that's where he again plays
Speaker 1: the demiurge. He plays this being that uses the labyrinths
Speaker 1: and shifts time and wants to feed off of other
Speaker 1: beings and so forth. Obviously he didn't write the script,
Speaker 1: but he always had a way of appearing in movies
Speaker 1: that just fit him, now beyond Labyrinth in his package,
Speaker 1: which I don't know why he had to have that package,
Speaker 1: those tights. It's always so embarrassing because I show my
Speaker 1: kids the movie because I like it, except there's David
Speaker 1: Bowie's package. But he always had a way of falling
Speaker 1: into the right movie at the right time, Like you
Speaker 1: were saying, David Lynch, fire Walk with Me, which if
Speaker 1: you look at Season three, Lynch's cosmology is also very gnostic, right,
Speaker 1: you know, these forces of Killer Bob and you know,
Speaker 1: and Fireman and Laura Palmer is a manifestation of Sofia
Speaker 1: in this world. But right right, you look at something
Speaker 1: like the Man who Felt who fell to Earth, which
Speaker 1: he did in the Earth what early mid seventies, and
Speaker 1: that is an insanely gnostic tale. I mean it's then
Speaker 1: in the.
Speaker 6: First episode of the Return, maybe the second or third,
Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure Dale is literally falling to Earth through space.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I was gonna bring I was going to
Speaker 3: bring that up. There's a few parts, yeah that I
Speaker 3: was gonna mention. And in season three when they show
Speaker 3: it looks like this like I don't know, some kind
Speaker 3: of control arm dropped this little ball and it's this
Speaker 3: black and white vision of Earth and it drops down
Speaker 3: and then like somebody show I forgot how who shows up?
Speaker 3: But it literally yeah, well that was in the season three.
Speaker 3: It was when it was when the toll Toll guy
Speaker 3: was with that.
Speaker 4: In the White Lodge.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's called the White Lodge shows it because it
Speaker 6: didn't show the White Lodge for the first.
Speaker 4: Two seasons, but then season three it shows it as
Speaker 4: this like celestial place.
Speaker 6: Making these orbs and putting them in the tulpas and
Speaker 6: creating you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that shows like the little image of Earth and
Speaker 3: it comes down. It's like the same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very gnostic cosmology. And even in fire Walk with Me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: David shoots out with electricity and it says who dreams
Speaker 1: the dreamer, And of course you see a lot of
Speaker 1: his lyrics. He talks about the coming race, which he's
Speaker 1: talking about the vril again, the electricity, the moving through
Speaker 1: powers with electricity. But going back to the Man Who
Speaker 1: Fell the Earth, that's just a retelling of the Gnostic
Speaker 1: Hymn of the Pearl if you've ever seen it, And
Speaker 1: that is a movie about somebody, this alien like we are,
Speaker 1: comes down and gets trapped into Earth. You know, he
Speaker 1: gets seduced by television and other things. And then the
Speaker 1: Man who Fell to Earth, which is a very gnostic tale.
Speaker 1: And again it's almost like instinctally he would fall into
Speaker 1: these very gnostic movies. But somebody who had an awakening
Speaker 1: with the Man who Felt Earth is Philip K. Dick.
Speaker 1: Philip K. Dick went and watched it and was obsessed
Speaker 1: with it. He would go he would go over and
Speaker 1: over to see the movie. Philip K. Dick thought that
Speaker 1: there was a hidden secret and something like that. And
Speaker 1: he was so inspired by the men who fell to
Speaker 1: Earth that he wrote Valas based on the man who
Speaker 1: felt Earth and as many no value as Philip K.
Speaker 1: Dick's Great Gnostic Opus. In fact, David Bowie appears in Vallas.
Speaker 1: They change his name, but he's a rock star. So
Speaker 1: you have these strange connections with Kubrick and Bowie and
Speaker 1: David Lynch and so but even Ridley Scott, I mean
Speaker 1: David and really Scott worked on a commercial in the sixties,
Speaker 1: but then suddenly they start kind of appearing in his
Speaker 1: you know, David appears in The Hunger, which was directed
Speaker 1: by Ridley Scott's brother, and so forth. And David Bowie
Speaker 1: was the very influenced by Blade Runner and use some
Speaker 1: of it and some of his talks and so forth.
Speaker 1: So there's this very, this fascinating web of Gnostic occultism
Speaker 1: with Scott and Lynch and Cubrick and David and all
Speaker 1: these other Philip K. Dick that just keeps going through
Speaker 1: the seventies, eighties and nineties. And I put it all,
Speaker 1: I put it all down. It's all there, so you
Speaker 1: can see it.
Speaker 6: It's like they're all working together to make some like
Speaker 6: you a big project or something.
Speaker 1: Rite Yeah, yeah, yeah face Rachel, Yeah, cosmic ritchel of
Speaker 1: our hopefully our apotheosis, our ascension out of this world
Speaker 1: that we're trapped in.
Speaker 7: So you mentioned real and I was just wondering.
Speaker 2: You said something about him getting sort of fascinated with
Speaker 2: the German Germany and the feast right it was did
Speaker 2: did Bowie have a stage where he got into Edward
Speaker 2: Buller Lighten and that late eighteen hundred gnostic occult Germany movement?
Speaker 1: I think so. I don't think he admits it, but
Speaker 1: again you have to look at his lyrics when he
Speaker 1: says the coming Race and the song oh you pretty
Speaker 1: things about these aliens that come and said, ah, the
Speaker 1: human race sucks, We're in charge now, and he seems
Speaker 1: pretty happy about it, but he calls them the coming race.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean he was an avid reader like Elvis.
Speaker 1: Most people don't know. I mean, he would read hundreds
Speaker 1: of books and occult books, Victorian mysticism, all that was
Speaker 1: really something that he just absorbed and would put on
Speaker 1: his lyrics and you have to see it, like in
Speaker 1: stas in the Station he mentions white stains and you
Speaker 1: might miss it but then you're wait a second. Crowley
Speaker 1: wrote a poem called white Stains or you know, he says,
Speaker 1: I am wearing Crowley's uniform. It's all over the place
Speaker 1: when you start reading his lyrics and seeing his albums
Speaker 1: in Toto.
Speaker 3: I know we've brought up on the show. I think
Speaker 3: some of the ways he's described making some of his
Speaker 3: lyrics is very like kind of a cult in a way.
Speaker 3: He would write stuff and then cut it up. It's
Speaker 3: almost like a sigil. The way you do is sigil
Speaker 3: in the sense exactly.
Speaker 1: Bingo. Yeah, a good point. That's a good point. Uh.
Speaker 1: Back into William Burrows and William Burrow's cosmology. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's these arkhons, right, these beings that control us. Two
Speaker 1: of the most dangerous arcons are time and language. In fact,
Speaker 1: Alatinsane has a song called Time, and it's not like
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd kind of metaphoric and you know, poetic is like,
Speaker 1: there's this being called Time that wants to just feed
Speaker 1: on us. And he says Time the sniper in the brain.
Speaker 1: He's bringing up mind parasites or with tiko, which he
Speaker 1: does in a lot of his albums, but Time is
Speaker 1: like this being that just wants to destroy it again.
Speaker 1: Krana's Saturn, whatever you want. But language too. Burrows always
Speaker 1: thought that language is what keep us from just being
Speaker 1: mere humans. It's a and strained, it's destroyed it. So
Speaker 1: Burrows felt you have to fool this arc and call language.
Speaker 1: And Burrows came up with this idea of the cut up,
Speaker 1: where you just cut things up, you throw them together
Speaker 1: and something will come from your soul, from your unconscious
Speaker 1: which will make sense. And it works sometimes it didn't.
Speaker 1: And you know who else used to do it? People say,
Speaker 1: you know, Kubrick was a control for Kubrick loved the
Speaker 1: cut up technique. He did that for his movies and scripts.
Speaker 1: He would just throw things together. That's why people say,
Speaker 1: how come there's so many mistakes and you know the
Speaker 1: shining because he really wasn't that much of a perfection.
Speaker 1: He just felt, I'm gonna do it over. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw it all together and something magic will come up.
Speaker 1: But David found when he started, when he realized that
Speaker 1: Burrows was doing it, he started doing it too. A
Speaker 1: lot of Diamond Dogs and some of his a lot
Speaker 1: of his other albums in the seventies, maybe sixty percent
Speaker 1: of his album was just him throwing lyrics together and saying,
Speaker 1: this is what we're going to do. Later with the
Speaker 1: Berlin Trilogy, Brian Eno was also into the same thing,
Speaker 1: and they would just throw music and lyrics together and
Speaker 1: just say this is it. And when when in the
Speaker 1: nineties when he finally got his first like mac or something,
Speaker 1: he would do that with his songs. He just put
Speaker 1: his music in the computer and just shuffle it up
Speaker 1: up and say, here's my music. So for yeah, for
Speaker 1: David also believed that the way to escape this world
Speaker 1: was to destroy language or find a new way to
Speaker 1: do language.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of artists did that too, like
Speaker 2: use that Burrows cut out method. I think more artists
Speaker 2: and will ever know tapped into that in time period. Yeah,
Speaker 2: even in like yeah, the time period, and even in
Speaker 2: the nineties. I know some of the nineties grunge bands
Speaker 2: for doing that. For Bush and Pearl Jam absolutely uh STP.
Speaker 2: And then you've got the later on, You've got that
Speaker 2: story about Rick Ruben Is System of a Down and
Speaker 2: they got hung up in like their biggest song writing
Speaker 2: it and he had them go pick up a book,
Speaker 2: a random book from the shelf and just open it
Speaker 2: up and whatever line jumped out at them, they they
Speaker 2: used the line and they created the bridge for the
Speaker 2: song and it's like their biggest song.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you know. Somebody in the chat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Brian Eno called it the oblique card said, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say this because I enjoy pissing off fellow gen xers.
Speaker 1: But just remember that Pearl Pearl Jem is simply discount
Speaker 1: Stone Temple Pilots. So I'll say that right now, that's
Speaker 1: the piss people. Because I'm an STP guy, I think
Speaker 1: they're the band. But you are right. And of course
Speaker 1: a lot of these grunge bands were influenced, not just
Speaker 1: by Neil Young, but David Bowie was really really big,
Speaker 1: and people forget that the genesis of grunge comes with
Speaker 1: that band Mother Love Bone, which the singer died, and
Speaker 1: then it broke up into uh these other bands like
Speaker 1: Pearl Jam and Uh Sam Soundgarden. You're right right, but
Speaker 1: Mother Lovebone was a glam rock band, just like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It started out as what David
Speaker 1: Bowie did, glam rocker, and then it just shifted to
Speaker 1: this hard stuff just like glam rock. Most people probably don't.
Speaker 1: Glam rock evolved into punk that was their next step.
Speaker 1: So and then punk rock evolved into new wave and
Speaker 1: always like with Elvis Costello said, well, how did new
Speaker 1: wave come about? He said, well, the punk rockers finally
Speaker 1: learned how to play their instruments. That's a great you know,
Speaker 1: you see that Blondie. When Blondie started in the clubs,
Speaker 1: it was like no, no, no, no, no no. And then
Speaker 1: Deborah Harry and all these people, why don't we tried
Speaker 1: playing some chords and then you know the music changed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bowie wont your influence for all those all everybody,
Speaker 2: and I think it's because you couldn't put you couldn't
Speaker 2: put him.
Speaker 7: In a box.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 7: He was constantly reinventing his sound.
Speaker 2: It's like you can anybody can go any musician alive
Speaker 2: today can go find an inspiration in a Bowie album
Speaker 2: and maybe create something nobody's ever heard.
Speaker 1: All right, right, and just remember Bowie was either coked
Speaker 1: up or throwing stuff together or using instincts. I mean,
Speaker 1: he instinctually just knew how to get the right sound.
Speaker 1: He wasn't he might say, talented, He just had an
Speaker 1: amazing almost psychic power to know exactly where to be
Speaker 1: and what sound to use.
Speaker 8: I wonder if you found that he made any relationships
Speaker 8: between his gnostic exploration and his UFO exploration.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Again. If he's under the William
Speaker 1: Burrow Stanley Kubrick rubric, then it's all there, right, Aliens
Speaker 1: and arans and you know that high weirdness where you
Speaker 1: know these guys Elvis and others could just throw and
Speaker 1: McKenna just throw all this stuff together, including science fiction,
Speaker 1: and create this mythology that worked for them in the seventies.
Speaker 1: I think in the eighties and nineties when he calmed
Speaker 1: down and he got off cocaine, and then in the
Speaker 1: late eighties he actually started, he got off of alcohol completely,
Speaker 1: started going to a meetings and all that. He really
Speaker 1: got into Elaine Pagel's Gnostic Gospels and Harold Bloom, the
Speaker 1: great Yale professor who wasn't avowed Gnostic, and he was
Speaker 1: more into the inner light, make contact with something bigger
Speaker 1: than you and bring out the light. He kind of
Speaker 1: he didn't he didn't like put the arcons away because again,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of Americans, and a lot of his other
Speaker 1: albums talking about you know, dystopian landscape still was there,
Speaker 1: but it was more about kind of rise up and
Speaker 1: become divine and become kinder and direct experience with God.
Speaker 1: And there was a softer David Bowie gnosticism in the
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties and so forth.
Speaker 3: David Bowie helped Trent Resident quit drugs.
Speaker 1: He did, he did, Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: big AA. And unfortunately he would go to A meetings
Speaker 1: every week in New York and people have told me
Speaker 1: that he would be in the meetings, but obviously what
Speaker 1: happens in AA stays in a so I can't get
Speaker 1: any good any good confessions, you know what I mean.
Speaker 7: He was drawn off too, right, then he go to
Speaker 7: sober up. Him and Iggy Pop took off together and
Speaker 7: go sober up.
Speaker 1: Right they tried, Yeah, they were When when in the
Speaker 1: After stationed the station in the late seventies, he Pop
Speaker 1: was really down in the dumps. He was in a
Speaker 1: mental hospital because he and finally crashed down and David
Speaker 1: they'd been friends for years and work together. David was
Speaker 1: the only person that came to visit him, and while
Speaker 1: he was touring, went out of his way went to
Speaker 1: the hospital. Of course, he slipped up some cocaine to
Speaker 1: help him out and all that. But then when Iggy
Speaker 1: came out, they became like almost co sponsors in a
Speaker 1: way that they they got away from cocaine. They were
Speaker 1: still drinking a lot, but just drinking and touring. And
Speaker 1: when Iggy went on tour, David was part of his band.
Speaker 1: He would just play the keyboard in the back, just
Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, stay out of the limelight. And
Speaker 1: they really helped up. And then they went to Berlin together.
Speaker 1: They almost died a few times because they were just
Speaker 1: kind of out of control. But yeah, David really started
Speaker 1: getting away from cocaine. He would do cocaine recreationally, but
Speaker 1: he mostly drank. He drank a lot, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately Iggy Pop's drug use, which you know, eventually David
Speaker 1: had to have an intervention in the seventies and Iggy
Speaker 1: got committed and all this other stuff. And even they say,
Speaker 1: you know the song and let's stand China Girl. David
Speaker 1: only did it because he had co written it with
Speaker 1: Iggy Pop in the seventies for his album The Idiot.
Speaker 1: So he did it so that Iggy could have some
Speaker 1: money because again Iggy was down in the dumps again.
Speaker 1: So but they were always like they were really best friends,
Speaker 1: and they were really close, and they really supported each
Speaker 1: other whenever they could.
Speaker 3: I don't know that story with him. I go aheads we.
Speaker 7: Mail.
Speaker 5: You mentioned several times in Mind Parasites. Was he a
Speaker 5: fan of Colin Wilson.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question too, because that's a hard
Speaker 1: one to understand, but he seems to again in his
Speaker 1: lyrics mention Colin Wilson. Now, Colin Wilson was olbways very
Speaker 1: big in the fifties with the outsider and the occult.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you were a young guy or yeah,
Speaker 1: you probably read Colin Wilson. And in his song Quicksand
Speaker 1: he talks about the mind is Quicksand, which is directly
Speaker 1: taking from Colin Wilson later and is if you look
Speaker 1: at David's one hundred favorite album, I mean books, which
Speaker 1: you can find on the internet, Colin Wilson does make
Speaker 1: the list, but I think it's still Burrows when it
Speaker 1: comes to mind Parasites, because again Burrows had the idea
Speaker 1: of the mind parasite, the centipedes that burrow in your brain.
Speaker 1: Burrows was obsessed with alien centipedes. It's just it freaked
Speaker 1: him out and he thought there were these horrible creatures
Speaker 1: that were ruling mankind. But there's a story that I
Speaker 1: put in the book, which Gary Lachmann has in his
Speaker 1: book Founding Mender of Blondie, which has when he was
Speaker 1: with Blondie, Bowie invited David invited him to a party
Speaker 1: in his New York apartment in nineteen eighty is seventy nine,
Speaker 1: and Gary Lockman shows up, and of course, because it's
Speaker 1: a celebration, Bowie is tooting some white stuff and suddenly
Speaker 1: David starts going Colin Wilson runs a coven of witches
Speaker 1: in Cornwall and this and that, and Gary, who also
Speaker 1: was very much into Colin Wilson, says that's not true.
Speaker 1: He's just a researcher, a writer. He doesn't practice magic.
Speaker 1: And Gary's like, oh, he's thinking about this other guy
Speaker 1: that lives down the road who was doing that. So
Speaker 1: they get into an argument about it, and of course
Speaker 1: David looks as his bodyguards and it's you know, it
Speaker 1: just goes and the bodyguards go up to mister Bowie
Speaker 1: is tired, you are leaving now, and they just dump
Speaker 1: Gary out of the the Apartment. But he was like,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think, yeah, David probably knew and read
Speaker 1: Colin Wilson through periods of his life.
Speaker 5: He seemed to be very Colin Wilson seemed to be
Speaker 5: very influenced by couch Ruff. I guess that's how you
Speaker 5: say his name, and you know, obviously a little raft
Speaker 5: in that he kind of capitalized on most of his books.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it was interesting how that makes an appearance
Speaker 5: in some of his lyrics. So I was just always curious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he had a bo We had a fascination
Speaker 2: with nineteen eighty four, right, and tried to buy the
Speaker 2: rights of nineteen eighty four off of Orwell's Widow great story, right,
Speaker 2: and I think he wanted to do a concept album
Speaker 2: on it, which I which had that been made, that
Speaker 2: would have been incredible, right, But uh, Sonya Orwell would
Speaker 2: not selling the rights.
Speaker 1: So she thought it was bizarre. It was bizarre, like
Speaker 1: the Simpsons doing Planet of the Apes musical. She probably
Speaker 1: was like, this is ridiculous. Oh you a Simpsons fan? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Olsen and some I haven't watched them in twenty years,
Speaker 1: but Olsen.
Speaker 10: I'm a Sibsons fan. When you mentioned that everything I
Speaker 10: love The Simpsons. I watched that a lot. I just
Speaker 10: had to jump in and say that.
Speaker 1: It's a great scene. But yeah, so she rejected it.
Speaker 1: But of course, you know, David was going to steal
Speaker 1: because he loves stealing from everybody. If he could help it,
Speaker 1: he decided, well, since she won't let me do it,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it in Diamond Dogs, you know,
Speaker 1: songs like nineteen eighty four and Big Brother, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to combine this sort of Burrows and Orwell sort
Speaker 1: of ideas. And I think part of it there was
Speaker 1: a Ziggy Startus musical that never got made. So the album,
Speaker 1: besides being cut Ups, is this throw of all these
Speaker 1: different ideas. But somehow the album's very cohesive. It really
Speaker 1: is a very scary and dark album about dystopia, mind control,
Speaker 1: and authoritarianism.
Speaker 7: So yeah, he worked it in. He worked it in.
Speaker 1: What's the other story too that I think it's funny
Speaker 1: is he tried once to steal Frank zapp as guitar
Speaker 1: wrist and the word was on the street. So David
Speaker 1: walks into a restaurant and there's Frank Zappa with his
Speaker 1: band and Frank Zappa goes, I know what you're trying
Speaker 1: to do, Colonel Tom. In other words, you know, David
Speaker 1: was known as Major Tom, so he's bringing him down
Speaker 1: to Colonel Tom and he had and David and Frank
Speaker 1: Zappa get into screaming match and they're almost going to
Speaker 1: fight each other, and finally David leaves. He eventually steals
Speaker 1: his guitar player. But David gets in a limousine with
Speaker 1: his staff and very English says well, I thought that
Speaker 1: went really well, don't you you know, so English, so dry?
Speaker 3: Which guitar playing did he grab him? Do you remember?
Speaker 1: Oh god, it might have been Adrian Blue? Don't I
Speaker 1: think it was Adrian Blue that he was stealing.
Speaker 3: I would assume this is all pre like Steve I
Speaker 3: playing with.
Speaker 1: Zappa, right, yeah, yeah, this was late seventies around there.
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask something I totally forgot the fuck? Uh,
Speaker 3: anybody have any questions or anything else?
Speaker 4: In when it is, I go for it.
Speaker 9: What What were one of the more remarkable UFO experiences
Speaker 9: that he had?
Speaker 1: Well? I think yeah, we did cover them as far
Speaker 1: as I can tell. Again, he saw a lot of them.
Speaker 1: It was just part of his life. And uh, I
Speaker 1: think those were really it the ones we covered.
Speaker 3: Do you think, like with his out of space stuff,
Speaker 3: do you think there's actually like cult symbolism behind that
Speaker 3: or is it more just at face value, like it's
Speaker 3: he's really just talking about like out of space and
Speaker 3: alien shit.
Speaker 1: I think he saw it as outer space as star portals,
Speaker 1: like the Gnostics and the neoplaton is that outer space
Speaker 1: wasn't just planet to planet, but we could travel and
Speaker 1: break into these portals. And he was really smart because
Speaker 1: when he did Space Oddity as a novelty song to
Speaker 1: coincide with the moon landing, right, and it was a
Speaker 1: novelty song and then it got more famous. But he
Speaker 1: kind of got himself in the you know, in the
Speaker 1: big leagues if he would. But he recognized that the
Speaker 1: astronaut trope or archetype was the new shaman for the West,
Speaker 1: because after you know, Space two thousand and one is
Speaker 1: Space Oddity and the moon landing and all that, the
Speaker 1: astronaut almost became like the shaman for the America and
Speaker 1: the Britain the UK. I mean in the seventies more
Speaker 1: people would buy merchandise for that had astronauts and comic
Speaker 1: books or sports star It was like the again the
Speaker 1: shaman had come, the modern day shaman of traveling astronaut
Speaker 1: was seen as the greatest job and the hero of
Speaker 1: our country. And David, as always being so smart sort
Speaker 1: of a dop did that trope even though he was
Speaker 1: really talking about apotheosis and being a shaman and all that,
Speaker 1: and really used it in his music with the whole
Speaker 1: space age. But again we're talking more of this sort
Speaker 1: of gnostic neoplatonic travel, astral travel to the star. It's
Speaker 1: like you like you see in Space Oddity. Some say
Speaker 1: Space Oddity is just a song about somebody becoming an enlightened,
Speaker 1: becoming completely detached from the material world and just sort
Speaker 1: of floating out into space. And you see that theme
Speaker 1: in trope so often throughout David's career. Of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And of course when did that archetype too? When was
Speaker 1: the was the the ship that got destroyed in the air?
Speaker 1: Was it the one that, yeah, that blew up in
Speaker 1: the air. That was the end of the space age?
Speaker 1: You might say, I always thinking that was a ritual
Speaker 1: to close down our imagination.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, close out our thoughts of what's out there
Speaker 3: or exploring.
Speaker 1: It right right, Because whether we went to the moon
Speaker 1: or all that. It doesn't matter. It's the idea, is
Speaker 1: the mythology, the symbolism behind them, that's what you know.
Speaker 1: That's what gets people excited and it makes us a
Speaker 1: cohesive culture and all that. And I think when the
Speaker 1: Challenger was destroyed, it sort of ended our our era
Speaker 1: of really looking at the stars and looking at the
Speaker 1: at the denizens of the stars and the portals and
Speaker 1: all that. So it seems to have come back recently.
Speaker 3: I did want to go on to a song. Did
Speaker 3: anybody have any questions before I ask mine? Okay, is
Speaker 3: maybe your opinion or how much you want to talk
Speaker 3: about it? I don't know if it's a song that
Speaker 3: you talk about a lot with Blackstar h First of all,
Speaker 3: that's all. First of all, one thing I didn't want
Speaker 3: to ask. Did he know he was dying prior to
Speaker 3: that album?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah he had. He had already been suffering from
Speaker 1: liver cancer something that, as Tim said, why he had
Speaker 1: to be replaced by a kettle because he just he
Speaker 1: didn't have the energy to really go on Twin Peaks
Speaker 1: season three and he was turning a lot of things down.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was. He'd already know he had cancer.
Speaker 1: He was really doing bad and he had a small
Speaker 1: hope he might survive. But yeah, he got everybody together.
Speaker 1: He told us creducer Tony Visconte the truth and Black
Speaker 1: Star is just a death ritual, his last you know,
Speaker 1: ritual of many rituals, to say goodbye and make his
Speaker 1: confession to the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why. I had heard some people say that,
Speaker 3: and they thought that that's like why some of these songs,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, are deeply a cult, because they thought, like,
Speaker 3: you know, he'd be a little bit more open about it,
Speaker 3: I guess because it was like there a fox given
Speaker 3: at this point, I already know I'm leaving, you know,
Speaker 3: Even some of the lyrics and some of the songs
Speaker 3: on that, I'm just like, pretty like, what the fuck
Speaker 3: did you just say to some pretty funny shit With
Speaker 3: Black Star, there's just you know, And I might be
Speaker 3: taking this too far out there, because I do look
Speaker 3: at the cult symbolism sometimes differently, But like with the first,
Speaker 3: especially the first, the second one might be a little
Speaker 3: bit of a stretch with my imagination. But in the first,
Speaker 3: the first thing he says in the Villa of the
Speaker 3: Ormond or whatever, you wouldn't pronounced that stands a solitary
Speaker 3: candle in the center of the center of it all,
Speaker 3: in the center of it all your eyes and Pedicles
Speaker 3: goes on a lot about aphrodite being this flame like
Speaker 3: literally in the back of your eye, and that always
Speaker 3: makes me think about that since I came across that,
Speaker 3: does that like ring like anything to you? Or does
Speaker 3: that sound too far out? There?
Speaker 1: Was?
Speaker 3: He influenced my impedicles.
Speaker 1: As far as I know, But I think the symbolism
Speaker 1: is right. Yeah, I break it down through various researchers
Speaker 1: and scholars. I mean, you see the dead astronaut with
Speaker 1: the jewels, and you wonder, is this major Tom who
Speaker 1: has finally failed, who didn't make it? And then this
Speaker 1: girl with the tail takes the head of the astronaut
Speaker 1: to this village and there's this ritual, and you have
Speaker 1: the three scarecrows, and of course David then plays sort
Speaker 1: of this horrible preacher with the black star, which has
Speaker 1: many symbolisms that I break down, but Saturn is certainly
Speaker 1: one of them. I think that's the one, and he
Speaker 1: basically making this confession, and then you have this ritual
Speaker 1: with these women and one woman is the center of it,
Speaker 1: and she escapes, and she is a Sophia figure that escapes,
Speaker 1: and she's played by the same actress who's in Lazarus,
Speaker 1: where David plays this demiurg figure. You know, if he's
Speaker 1: got the both videos, he's got a cloth which symbolizes
Speaker 1: the blind god of the Gnostics. So you have this
Speaker 1: him admitting that he's Saturn and him confessing to it,
Speaker 1: and he's this oppressive preacher and there's Sophia trying to
Speaker 1: heal things. But at the end, I think he knew
Speaker 1: that somehow Saturn had gotten the best of him. Because
Speaker 1: both videos are very, very dark. They do not have
Speaker 1: happy endings, and they're very confessional about what he's doing.
Speaker 1: You know, I am not this, I have failed at
Speaker 1: this and other things. So it stark stuff what he
Speaker 1: does to exit his life, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, he was a nice father in
Speaker 1: this and that and I love my life is pretty intense.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Marilyn Manson put out an album called Mechanical Animals, and
Speaker 2: I heard him say that he was influenced by cocaine
Speaker 2: and David Bowie to do that whole record, and and
Speaker 2: there's actually some very bosque songs on there. A lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of spacey stuff on there, and he's
Speaker 2: one of the songs on there. He has that line
Speaker 2: that says dead astronaut in space.
Speaker 7: It's clearly a Bowie reference.
Speaker 2: So I think that whole Mechanical Animals album, which you
Speaker 2: know that's I mean, it's probably one of Marilyn Manson's
Speaker 2: best albums is a nod more than a nod to Bowie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I haven't heard it so, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll hear it if you ever listen to it,
Speaker 2: you'll hear the influence for sure.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure he was in a band with Johnny Depp,
Speaker 4: right talking about Marilyn Manson.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know, man, I'm.
Speaker 4: Pretty sure he was in a band with Depp.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, friends or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did read that that Johnny Depp gave Marilyn
Speaker 2: Manson a house.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, m.
Speaker 1: I just looked it up.
Speaker 10: Yeah, Mariland Manson and Johnny were in a band again, figure.
Speaker 4: Because they were in a band with Damian Eccles.
Speaker 10: They were part of an alternative rock band called p
Speaker 10: which included Gibby Haynes, Flee and Steve Jones. They performed
Speaker 10: together at the fourth annual Revolver Golden Gods Awards.
Speaker 4: I knew it. I knew he was in a band
Speaker 4: with depth.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm gonta give you a cookie later on Jewels
Speaker 10: and I'm just, hey, you know, send it via PayPal
Speaker 10: because I didn't know that. Bro, I'm glad you said that,
Speaker 10: because I didn't know that. It's actually interesting something.
Speaker 1: Look that means you.
Speaker 10: That means you know that he knows some secret ship too.
Speaker 10: That that Marilynd Manson probably said. He probably just ain't
Speaker 10: saying it right now. He probably already knew that he.
Speaker 3: Was he was going to do some psychotic ship like that.
Speaker 3: Anything else about Black Slaw you wanted to mention, Miguel, No,
Speaker 3: it's kind of I mean, I don't want to wait
Speaker 3: too much because you want people.
Speaker 1: To write in the book. I have all the scenes
Speaker 1: broken down and the symbolism, so it's not it's almost
Speaker 1: like if we talk about it. Yeah, you have to
Speaker 1: look at each scene and each symbol, and you know
Speaker 1: there's a black Sun, which of course is Saturn in
Speaker 1: this world, and there's all these little symbols in both
Speaker 1: Lazarus and Black Star that you really need to see
Speaker 1: it as a visual it'll it'll I put it all
Speaker 1: together and it'll make sense. It's again a gnostic ritual.
Speaker 1: It's Saturn winning the day, and it's hopefully the book.
Speaker 1: People will know what we have to do to help
Speaker 1: David come back and hopefully have the Star unfix our
Speaker 1: reality that has just been falling apart since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 6: If you had noticed, our souls have to go back
Speaker 6: to the the rings of Saturn and then maybe we
Speaker 6: can grab him on the way through.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly because in Kubrick's movie at the end they
Speaker 1: appear in Jupiter. Bowman appears on Jupiter, but that's in
Speaker 1: the book. It's actually Saturn. And Kubrick was like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't afford special effects for Saturn, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: make a Jupiter. And you wonder was Kubrick hiding Saturn too,
Speaker 1: But yeah, at the end of the movie you end
Speaker 1: up trapped in Saturn.
Speaker 3: Saund's gonna get you in one way or an all.
Speaker 2: I think he had that the book, the Egyptian Book
Speaker 2: of the Dead. Bowie owned that book as well. I
Speaker 2: remember hearing that.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 7: I'd like to see us. I'd love to see his
Speaker 7: full library, you know, see what was in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go again, go online and just type
Speaker 1: it in David Bowie's hundred favorite books, and it's it's vast.
Speaker 1: He's got a lot. But he was again, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said in the last show, Elvis would have
Speaker 1: a worker's coming with two hundred books on the occult
Speaker 1: wherever he traveled. But David Bowie was the same. He
Speaker 1: had like this traveling library, and like Elvis, doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if he was drugged up, sober on vacation, he was
Speaker 1: always reading. He was just a relentless reader like Elvis.
Speaker 3: Did you catch his smiley face symbol on his on
Speaker 3: his stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I find that interesting seeing
Speaker 3: that in the I called it an eclipse, people called
Speaker 3: it black so sad, and those two like around the
Speaker 3: same time. I found that very interesting.
Speaker 1: Must be a nod to his son. Did is actually
Speaker 1: a Hollywood director did what's the name of the movie?
Speaker 10: Moon?
Speaker 1: And God? What are they? I think I forgot the
Speaker 1: name of the movies. Two very gnostic movies, you guys
Speaker 1: got I'm drawing a blank here, But he did two
Speaker 1: very sci fi movies, and one of them I think
Speaker 1: it's called moon where there's these symbols on there too.
Speaker 3: Anybody have any questions or anything, anything that they wanted
Speaker 3: to add, All right, I guess we'll wrap it up.
Speaker 4: I have some research that I have to do now.
Speaker 3: Yoh mi go. Thank you very much. That was really awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was awesome, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Anything that I wanted to add was I got out,
Speaker 3: and any questions I had was pretty much got off already,
Speaker 3: So thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's just a fraction.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Kristin, Carl Jung and other figures that again
Speaker 1: were part of it. Some of his supernatural, other mystic events,
Speaker 1: you know, some of his psychic abilities. There's just so
Speaker 1: much more that you'll find. And of course there's a
Speaker 1: lot of I mean, it was a hard thing about
Speaker 1: research because there was also a lot of boring stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, he does settle down, he does give us
Speaker 1: lead stance, which is hard to underg know is Phil Collins,
Speaker 1: Stevie Winwood era, which is hard to hard to research.
Speaker 1: And you know all that. There's a lot of peaks
Speaker 1: and valleys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, before we wrap it up, we'll let
Speaker 3: everybody plug their stuff again real quick. Lisa. Yeah, cool
Speaker 3: to reject a man sciences. Thank you very much for
Speaker 3: joining us. I appreciate it tonight, would like to uh
Speaker 3: say anything, I'll plug anything.
Speaker 5: Thank you for inviting me, Miguel. That was amazing. As usual,
Speaker 5: I missed your Elvis one, but I caught the replay
Speaker 5: and it was fantastic. This was just amazing. Thank you
Speaker 5: so much for this, and thank you Phillow Rejects for
Speaker 5: the great discussion, and thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 3: Of course, thank you for joining us and my man
Speaker 3: Jules was going on.
Speaker 6: Sir again, Nick, thank you for having me, Lisa, Ethan Tyrone,
Speaker 6: Tim was good seeing you guys. Miguel, it was nice
Speaker 6: to meet you, brother. It was a great presentation. Would
Speaker 6: like to join you again on another episode for something.
Speaker 6: I'm sure I need to catch that Occult Elvis episode.
Speaker 6: I think I remember when y'all did it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I should have been here for that.
Speaker 6: But guys, if you remember on Patreon you can catch me.
Speaker 1: We're going to.
Speaker 6: Start up there in about forty minutes streaming twin peaks. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and got some shows I'm probably gonna be doing tomorrow.
Speaker 6: I think we have a show tomorrow, The Occult Rejects
Speaker 6: has a show.
Speaker 4: Esoteric book review.
Speaker 1: In the morning.
Speaker 4: I think, Nick, maybe there.
Speaker 6: I think we're doing the adepts in the Western esoteric
Speaker 6: tradition again, super stoked, super stoked. And then I'm going
Speaker 6: on with grey horned Pagans later on in the day tomorrow,
Speaker 6: So I'll keep everybody updated. But yeah, y'all follow me
Speaker 6: on X that great pill pod, YouTube, rumble app podcast, Spotify,
Speaker 6: all that good stuff.
Speaker 3: Thanks Agett, Nick, No, of course, thank you very much,
Speaker 3: real quick. I forgot to mention these at the beginning too.
Speaker 3: I got free stickers if anybody's interested. And we got
Speaker 3: shirts oh yeah yeah. Wrapping the shirt, oh yeah, thank
Speaker 3: you very much.
Speaker 4: I get some more.
Speaker 3: Believe it or notough for people if they can see
Speaker 3: that shirt, that is all symbolism for the eyeball on
Speaker 3: the brain. It's all about the eyeballs in the brain
Speaker 3: in that image. No people probably even get that at all.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I have to.
Speaker 3: Explain it to my wife. Yeah, I'll explain it to
Speaker 3: you tomorrow on the show if you want. Whatever Ethan
Speaker 3: is going on, so please let everybody know what's up.
Speaker 9: Epic to be with you guys.
Speaker 8: As always, Miguel thanks for all the insights and amazing
Speaker 8: ideas and yeah things to research, and thanks for your.
Speaker 9: Show and all your books, both of them are epic.
Speaker 8: And yeah, I'm easy to find on social media and
Speaker 8: and right, not too infrequently anyway, So yeah, peace to everyone.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Man. I appreciate it. And my man,
Speaker 3: what's going on to.
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 10: Did the same thing to me too. I hit the
Speaker 10: unut but and it immuted me right back home.
Speaker 1: That was weird.
Speaker 10: But yeah, I appreciate this conversation, this information and knowledge
Speaker 10: that you shared with me.
Speaker 1: It was awesome.
Speaker 10: I know everybody on the panel enjoyed it. I mean
Speaker 10: we were, I mean we couldn't take our eyes off
Speaker 10: this information. I took a lot of notes, so I
Speaker 10: really do appreciate that I had. Actually, I had a
Speaker 10: lot of people who was hitting me up from my
Speaker 10: side of the channel saying, hey, you on there with
Speaker 10: Miguel con and they was just loving it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you out there.
Speaker 10: You you definitely Everything you can find, yeah, right, everything
Speaker 10: you can find on me is on my website, Rebirth
Speaker 10: of theWord dot com. I love history, I love sharing
Speaker 10: what I've learned, and I wrote a book, Journey through
Speaker 10: the origins of history that pertains to all that, so
Speaker 10: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so.
Speaker 3: Much, of course, thank you, and Lesada. At least we
Speaker 3: got Tim concertain what is up.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Miguel. Great research. Everybody go pick up that book.
Speaker 2: Thanks to the other rejects. Happy to see all you guys.
Speaker 2: Thanks Nick. My show is sixth Century Podcasts. You can
Speaker 2: find me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, Patreon and Instagram. And
Speaker 2: always great to be here.
Speaker 3: Thanks again, of course, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: And Miguel, please let everybody know what's up. And you
Speaker 3: already got people asking where can they find your book?
Speaker 1: So yeah, well the usual suspects for the book, including
Speaker 1: the audiobook, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Inn traditions. Yeah, col
Speaker 1: Elvis is out. And again the David Bowie book we're
Speaker 1: looking at next year. It's entitled tentatively The Gnostic David
Speaker 1: Bowie or The Gnostick Life of David Bowie, but we'll
Speaker 1: see what it ends up being, but look out for
Speaker 1: it in twenty twenty six. Yeah, and I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you having me. I know it's a slow news cycle,
Speaker 1: so you probably are like, no big deal having me
Speaker 1: on but I just I just.
Speaker 3: I was like really excited for this. You know, I
Speaker 3: want to plug real quick inter traditions. You know, they
Speaker 3: they do actually if people are into that type of stuff,
Speaker 3: like this type of stuff or a cult. They do
Speaker 3: have a lot of you know, they have a lot
Speaker 3: of authors on there that I have even had on
Speaker 3: the show. I can pretty much go on the website.
Speaker 3: If there's somebody on there, I can email the lady
Speaker 3: and they'll try to put me in touch with them,
Speaker 3: Like I'm pretty cool with them. So you know, Miguel
Speaker 3: is on there, and there was a lot of other authors,
Speaker 3: Like if you want to go on that site, they'd
Speaker 3: be like, god, damn, he's serious. A lot of the authors, Yeah,
Speaker 3: had is on this website, so go check it out.
Speaker 3: And his book is on there, so check it out.
Speaker 1: For surely do a lot of great work. I think
Speaker 1: somebody in it that. Yeah, we created a gnostic taro.
Speaker 1: I think it's a new feature. My wife has been
Speaker 1: doing terror readings for decades personal now we offer them
Speaker 1: online and she uses the Gnostic Taro and she gives
Speaker 1: you a very different journey, very Bowie journey. If anybody's interested,
Speaker 1: So go to the God above good dot com for that.
Speaker 1: But then I have my sort of vanilla website, Miguel
Speaker 1: Connor dot com, which has the Elvis stuff and other things,
Speaker 1: and eventually the David Bowie book will be there.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, keep it. Eye off of that David Bowie book.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah. Thank you everybody who came on the show
Speaker 3: to join us. I had a really good time. It
Speaker 3: was an awesome Friday night. It was a great topic.
Speaker 3: And again, Miguel, that was awesome. And if people haven't
Speaker 3: heard the old Elvis please go back and check it out.
Speaker 3: That one was a banger. Thank everybody for in the chat.
Speaker 3: That's what's up. There's a lot of people there from
Speaker 3: the beginning to the end. I love it. Until the
Speaker 3: next one. Everybody be well later