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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to part two of our series about the

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<v Speaker 1>disappearance of Nileen K. Marshall. Let's dive right back into it. So,

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<v Speaker 1>over the course of the next few months, Child find

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<v Speaker 1>of America received two more anonymous letters which were postmarked

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<v Speaker 1>from Madison, Wisconsin, as well as two more anonymous phone

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<v Speaker 1>calls from a man claiming to be the author of

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<v Speaker 1>the letters, and he apparently shared enough details to indicate

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<v Speaker 1>that this was the same person who wrote the original letter,

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<v Speaker 1>but they have not disclosed any information about what was

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<v Speaker 1>revealed during these additional phone calls or additional letters. The

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<v Speaker 1>FBI got involved and trace these calls to a booth

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<v Speaker 1>in the town of Edgerton, which is nearly thirty miles

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<v Speaker 1>southeast of Madison, but all communication from the man seized

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<v Speaker 1>after May of nineteen eighty six, and like I mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the information from these letters has continued

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<v Speaker 1>to be withheld from the public to this day. But

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<v Speaker 1>one detail which they did later release is that the

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<v Speaker 1>author claimed that his parents and his nine year old

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<v Speaker 1>sister were once killed in a car accident.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's interesting, So it feels like, Okay, is this

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<v Speaker 2>a detail that you're giving in order to make it

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<v Speaker 2>appear like you're sharing something about yourself or is this

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<v Speaker 2>completely fabricated and a red herring, And that your objective

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<v Speaker 2>as the letter writer, as the potential abductor of Nileen,

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<v Speaker 2>is to put out a scenario or put out a

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<v Speaker 2>narrative that is most palatable to you, and you truly

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to get caught. You just want people to

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<v Speaker 2>believe that she's still alive and being cared for. And

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<v Speaker 2>in doing that, you are going to give background information.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you going to choose to give accurate background information? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to get caught, yeah, But if your

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<v Speaker 2>objective is to fool law enforcement and to make them

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<v Speaker 2>just go along on this journey with you, then you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to concoct details that are false.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Like I have to assume law enforcement looked into

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<v Speaker 1>this angle and look for people from Madison who may

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<v Speaker 1>have lost their parents and their nine year old sister

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<v Speaker 1>in a car accident. But presumably this came up empty.

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<v Speaker 1>And it makes me wonder if he is making up

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<v Speaker 1>this story. It's just a way to justify his actions,

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<v Speaker 1>saying I've had a tough life. I lost my entire

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<v Speaker 1>family in an accident when I was young, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>all alone, so therefore it's okay for me to just

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<v Speaker 1>pick up this random girl walking down the road and

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<v Speaker 1>raise her as my own, even though I stole her

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<v Speaker 1>from her own parents.

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<v Speaker 2>And like, even if those details were true, given the

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<v Speaker 2>time period, I'm thinking, like, oh, it'd be easy to

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<v Speaker 2>do database searches and to like figure out this information.

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<v Speaker 2>But I just don't think it would be very easy.

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<v Speaker 2>During that time period, law enforcement agencies weren't very good

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<v Speaker 2>at speaking to each other, and a lot of times

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<v Speaker 2>today they're not that great at speaking to each other,

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<v Speaker 2>and if they put all the information into a database

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<v Speaker 2>is like TBD. So to assume that just because he

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<v Speaker 2>put that information out there that they would be able

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<v Speaker 2>to find that, I guess is maybe overstating their abilities

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<v Speaker 2>based on the technology of the time. But I also

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<v Speaker 2>think it's more when you put information out there, somebody

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be triggered by that if you put

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<v Speaker 2>it out to the public, more so than law enforcement, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>because if it would have been his sister and his

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<v Speaker 2>parents many many years ago, who knows how well that

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<v Speaker 2>was documented or put into any database, But yet there

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<v Speaker 2>would have been people that would have known this family

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<v Speaker 2>and something would go, oh, I know, like that was

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<v Speaker 2>the Joneses or whomever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I'm thinking is that they didn't release

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<v Speaker 1>this initially, but they probably thinking that, hey, this might

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<v Speaker 1>ring a bell, like someone will remember growing up with

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<v Speaker 1>someone who lost their parents a nine year old sister

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<v Speaker 1>in an accident, and may be it will compel someone

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<v Speaker 1>to come forward. But unfortunately it doesn't look like this

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<v Speaker 1>lad anywhere, So, like I said, it was featured on

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<v Speaker 1>Unsolved Mysteries in November of nineteen ninety and contained a

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<v Speaker 1>heartbreaking interview with Nileen's mother Nancy, where she made this

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<v Speaker 1>statement quote, I still look for I always will every

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<v Speaker 1>time I'm at an airport, every time I'm at a resort,

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<v Speaker 1>every time I'm at an amusement park. Sure I look

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm having a good time, but I'm looking for

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<v Speaker 1>my child every minute that i'm out end quote. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's so sad because this is one case where, like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure many parents of missing children come to terms

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<v Speaker 1>with the fact that they're probably dead, but this involves

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<v Speaker 1>a perpetrator who claims that he has her and is

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<v Speaker 1>still raising her out there somewhere under a new identity.

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<v Speaker 1>So you can understand Nancy's feeling that every time she

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<v Speaker 1>goes out, I'm going to look for all the children

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<v Speaker 1>and just kind of pray that maybe I'll see Nileen

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<v Speaker 1>out there somewhere being raised by a different person.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so sad, and I don't know what is the

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<v Speaker 2>right answer. I think it would vary from parent to

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<v Speaker 2>parent and situation. But to have that hope and to

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<v Speaker 2>hold on to that hope is one thing. But to

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<v Speaker 2>know the reality of what actually happened to your child,

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<v Speaker 2>I know, would be incredibly deflating. And some people would

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<v Speaker 2>prefer that, but other people would likely choose to hold

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<v Speaker 2>on to hope just because it gives them something to

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<v Speaker 2>keep going and to keep trucking forward even though there

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<v Speaker 2>isn't a resolution. And I wouldn't judge either decision, because obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>to lose a child and to have to contend with

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<v Speaker 2>the potential outcomes whether your child is alive or dead

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<v Speaker 2>and what may have happened to them is such a

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<v Speaker 2>weighty endeavor and any parent that has to go through this,

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<v Speaker 2>and we've covered so many of these cases, it's monumental

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<v Speaker 2>the amount of impact, and it can't be overstated that

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<v Speaker 2>it has both on mental and physical health. There is

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<v Speaker 2>something where when hope is gone and the reality sets in,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a whole other kind of trauma that you have

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<v Speaker 2>to deal with.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, exactly. And we've heard other cases where the

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<v Speaker 1>parents of missing children die at young ages just because

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<v Speaker 1>of all the stress and the grief. And she lost

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<v Speaker 1>Nileen at the age of four, and Nilen, if she

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<v Speaker 1>had still been alive at the time Nancy gave that interview,

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<v Speaker 1>would have been twelve years old at the time, So

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<v Speaker 1>you got to understand, like, what a weird situation to be.

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<v Speaker 1>She's out in public and she's looking for like twelve

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<v Speaker 1>year old girls who were older than Nileen and thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>wow that she kind of has a resemblance to her.

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<v Speaker 1>Could that be Nileen? And it's just so hard to

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<v Speaker 1>have any peace when you have to live like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the strangest elements of the Unsolved Mystery

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<v Speaker 1>section is that they mentioned that a couple months before

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<v Speaker 1>the segment was filmed on Nileen's uncle learned about another

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<v Speaker 1>unsolved child abduction in a different part of the country

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<v Speaker 1>where the child had been abducted by a couple, an

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<v Speaker 1>unidentified man and woman, and when he saw the two

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<v Speaker 1>composite sketches of this couple he who were wanted for questioning.

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<v Speaker 1>In that case, the uncle became convinced that he had

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<v Speaker 1>seen them and Helen a National four during the first

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<v Speaker 1>day of the original search effort for an Eyleen. So

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<v Speaker 1>they released the composite sketches during the Unsolved Mystery segment.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet they did not release the composite sketch of the

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<v Speaker 1>man in the purple jogging suit. And I find that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of odd because when you look at those sketches,

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<v Speaker 1>they look like a generic man and woman, and I

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<v Speaker 1>have a feeling the uncle might have just been trying

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<v Speaker 1>to hold on to hope, because I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>we could look at these sketches seven years later and

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<v Speaker 1>then just think, oh, yeah, I remember seeing them in

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<v Speaker 1>the forest during the search effort for an Eileen. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of weird that they would lease this pretty

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<v Speaker 1>thid lead and show these sketches on TV, yet not

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<v Speaker 1>the sketch of the man in the jogging suit.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it was more of the attitude that information from

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<v Speaker 2>an adult is more credible than information from children. But

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<v Speaker 2>in this specific case, I would take the information from children,

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<v Speaker 2>and like we've talked about how that was a product

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<v Speaker 2>of the time. I think that view that maybe children

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<v Speaker 2>weren't there to provide accurate information was largely a product

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<v Speaker 2>of its time. That we know that yes, children can

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<v Speaker 2>make things up, but oftentimes they have accurate memories of

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<v Speaker 2>things that happened if you can piece it together. And

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<v Speaker 2>like in this case specifically, I think it's incredibly pertinent

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<v Speaker 2>information because we have multiple children who don't know each

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<v Speaker 2>other sharing the same stuff. And I find it wild

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<v Speaker 2>that they did not put that composite sketch of the

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<v Speaker 2>purple jogging suit guy out there that they gained through

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<v Speaker 2>the hypnosis sessions with the children, But seven years later

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<v Speaker 2>the uncle thinks that he saw this couple. We now

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<v Speaker 2>know there's been so many studies on eyewitness identification. There's

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<v Speaker 2>been there's a lot of videos out there. You could

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<v Speaker 2>just go and watch them. How people miss key details

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just the way that our mind works. We

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<v Speaker 2>think that it's infallible and that we remember everything accurately,

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<v Speaker 2>but the reality is we just we don't. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>like Robin just said, the uncle is trying to hold

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<v Speaker 2>on to some kind of hope, and I cannot fault

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<v Speaker 2>him for that. I think it's sort of like the

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<v Speaker 2>mom seeing Nileen everywhere, seeing her where she is, because

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<v Speaker 2>you truly hope that this is something that is going

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<v Speaker 2>to lead to your daughter or in this case, to

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<v Speaker 2>your niece.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. And just the fact that the uncle said

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<v Speaker 1>he saw them during the search effort and not the

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<v Speaker 1>actual day that Nileen went missing, and he didn't see

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<v Speaker 1>her anywhere near the Nileen And like maybe a couple

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<v Speaker 1>who looked like that showed up for the search effort,

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<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't mean they were involved. They could have

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<v Speaker 1>just been volunteers who were trying to help. But after

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<v Speaker 1>so much time, I can understand why he would want

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<v Speaker 1>to grasp to any lead that he can. So after

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<v Speaker 1>the episode aired, the show's telecenter received a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of new tips, but the most promising one was an

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<v Speaker 1>official from a school in Sawassin, which is a suburban

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<v Speaker 1>community located just south of Vancouver, British Columbia, your Neck

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<v Speaker 1>of the Woods. He saw the age progress photo of

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<v Speaker 1>Nileen and became convinced that she was a thirteen year

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<v Speaker 1>old student at his school named Mary Ann Kelly. For

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<v Speaker 1>the past six years, Mary and her father, Robert William Kelly,

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<v Speaker 1>who was raising her alone as a single father. Have

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<v Speaker 1>been living just across the US border in the communit

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<v Speaker 1>unity of Port Robert's, Washington, and would cross the border

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<v Speaker 1>to attend this school in Sawassen.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Towahson, Oh, Towason.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, yeah, I figured you would know because you're from

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<v Speaker 1>the area. But the school staff always had their suspicions

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<v Speaker 1>about Robert because he never provided them with a phone number,

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<v Speaker 1>and whenever they asked for an address, he always told

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<v Speaker 1>them that they were between addresses. And whenever Robert dropped

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<v Speaker 1>Mary off at school every morning, he would always go

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<v Speaker 1>to her classroom and look through the windows to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure she was there. So they started wondering could this

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<v Speaker 1>be an abducted child being raised by her kidnapper? And

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<v Speaker 1>because they thought that Mary had a resemblance to Nileen,

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<v Speaker 1>the agent hands composite sketch. That's why they decided to

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<v Speaker 1>call the Unsolved Mysteries Telecenter. Though in retrospect, it seems

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<v Speaker 1>pretty wild that like someone who kidnapped a child would

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<v Speaker 1>be living in Washington State and crossing over the border

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<v Speaker 1>every day to take their child to a school in

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<v Speaker 1>British Columbia. I mean, I know it was nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 1>when you didn't have to have a passport to go

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<v Speaker 1>over the border. But that just seems incredibly risky.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're taking your life into your hands literally every day,

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<v Speaker 2>crossing the border, being questioned, having this child with you,

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<v Speaker 2>and so these two things they seem incongruous to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's so concerned that he's going to be like

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<v Speaker 2>looking through the window and almost seeming sketchy about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yet he's willing to cross a border and be

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<v Speaker 2>questioned by border agents or border guards, and they are

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<v Speaker 2>notoriously stringent for details. So if he didn't have the

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<v Speaker 2>right documentation or paperwork or they got a weird vibe,

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<v Speaker 2>he's going to have his butt hauled in there, and

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<v Speaker 2>more questions are going to be asked. So it leads

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<v Speaker 2>me to believe that if you've abducted a child, why

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<v Speaker 2>take that risk every single day that you've got to

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<v Speaker 2>take that child to school. It just doesn't add up

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<v Speaker 2>for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they never explained why he did that. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if maybe there just weren't any schools available in

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<v Speaker 1>Port Roberts on the US side of the border, so

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<v Speaker 1>he was forced to take her to this one in

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<v Speaker 1>British Columbia. But regardless, the FBI took this lead seriously

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<v Speaker 1>and decided to performed surveillance on the Kellys, and after

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<v Speaker 1>looking at Mari Anne's school records, the FBI was able

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<v Speaker 1>to confirm that yes, they were false and that even

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<v Speaker 1>if this girl wasn't Nileen, she may be another abducted child.

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<v Speaker 1>They managed to obtain a search warrant for the Kelly

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<v Speaker 1>family and it turned out that yes, Mary was not

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<v Speaker 1>actually Nileen, but she was a completely different missing child

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<v Speaker 1>who had been abducted by her non custodial father and

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<v Speaker 1>they had been on the run for the past eight years.

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<v Speaker 1>So during a search of the Kelly residents, the FBI

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<v Speaker 1>uncovered a box containing a number of personal items, including

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<v Speaker 1>a birth certificate with the name Monica Bania. The box

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<v Speaker 1>also contained a number of photographs which had been taken

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<v Speaker 1>years earlier and featured Robert and Mary alongside a woman

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<v Speaker 1>named Rosemary Banilla Levi, and it turned out that Rosemary

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<v Speaker 1>had once been married to this Robert William Kelly, but

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<v Speaker 1>that was not his real name. He was actually a

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<v Speaker 1>guy named Guillermo Ruiz Bania, and that to this child,

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Anne Kelly was actually his daughter Monica, whom Guillermo

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<v Speaker 1>had abducted from his mother in California years earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, wow, so did she get reunited with her mother?

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<v Speaker 1>She did, yes, like thankfully, this was like a non

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<v Speaker 1>custodial abductions by her own father, so it wasn't one

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<v Speaker 1>where she was being kidnapped and abused or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It turned out that he originally lived in Burbank, California.

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<v Speaker 1>Guillermo and Rosemary were married and Monica was about four

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<v Speaker 1>years old at the time, but apparently things fell apart

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<v Speaker 1>when Guillermo developed a very bizarre obsession with John Lennon.

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<v Speaker 1>After Lennon was assassinated in December of nineteen eighty, Guillermo

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<v Speaker 1>apparently cried NonStop for two weeks and became convinced that

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<v Speaker 1>he was the reincarnation of John Lennin, so he started

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<v Speaker 1>altering his appearance to look as much like him as possible.

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<v Speaker 1>He was growing out his hair, growing a beard, putting

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<v Speaker 1>on glasses like Lenin even though he didn't actually need them,

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<v Speaker 1>and he told Rosemary that he wanted her to become

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<v Speaker 1>just like John Lennon's wife, Yoko Ono, and this was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much the breaking point where Rosemary told Guillermo, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I want to divorce you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this sounds really bizarre. It sounds like Guillermo is

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<v Speaker 2>having a bit of a break with reality and there's

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<v Speaker 2>potentially some mental illness at play here. So to be

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<v Speaker 2>the reincarnation of somebody, wouldn't they have had to have

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<v Speaker 2>been dead at the same time, around when you were

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<v Speaker 2>being born? Or did John Lennon's soul just like jump

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<v Speaker 2>into his body?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's on the Unsolved Mystery segment. They show like

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of old photos of Guerimo from nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just so creepy. He seems to think that

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<v Speaker 1>Glennon just jumped into his body after he was assassinated,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's trying as much as possible to look like him.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that they were planning a divorce. But

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<v Speaker 1>in September of nineteen eighty two, Rosemary returned home from

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<v Speaker 1>work and was shocked to discover that Guillermo had emptied

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<v Speaker 1>the house of all of their personal possessions and ran

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<v Speaker 1>off with Monica. And the following day, Rosemay received a

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<v Speaker 1>call from one of Gierimo's family members, who told her

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<v Speaker 1>that she would never see Monica again, and that Monica

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<v Speaker 1>had been told that her mother was dead, and because

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<v Speaker 1>at that time Guillermo was technically still a legal guardian

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<v Speaker 1>of Monica, the police would not be able to launch

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<v Speaker 1>an official missing person's investigation until the courts illegally awarded

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<v Speaker 1>Rosemary full custody of her daughter two months later. But

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<v Speaker 1>by that point so much time had passed that Guiamo

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<v Speaker 1>and Monica were long gone and it seems like they

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<v Speaker 1>arrived in Port Roberts, Washington and started a new life

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<v Speaker 1>under a new identity under the names Robert and Mary Kelly,

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<v Speaker 1>and that Guillermo was going across the border every day

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<v Speaker 1>and taking Monica to this school in British Columbia, and

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<v Speaker 1>that the police had no idea where they were even

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<v Speaker 1>though she was reported missing, and the investigation was at

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00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.519
<v Speaker 1>a dead end when by pure chance they were found

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00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.679
<v Speaker 1>because of unsolved mysteries, because a tipster believed that Monica

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<v Speaker 1>was Nileen K. Marshall.

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<v Speaker 2>This is such a bizarre element of this case, adding

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00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.200
<v Speaker 2>in Guillermo crossing the border from Port Roberts into Tawawson

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<v Speaker 2>to take his daughter to school, like you're opening yourself

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<v Speaker 2>up to so much risk. I wonder what the school

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00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>situation Roberts was and why he felt like he needed

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<v Speaker 2>to cross the border. Because if you're going so far

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<v Speaker 2>as to change the name of your child, you're changing

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00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.720
<v Speaker 2>your name. You're doing everything you can to try to

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<v Speaker 2>evade Rosemary and to keep your daughter. And like, my

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00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.480
<v Speaker 2>heart goes out to Rosemary. I cannot imagine what it

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00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:27.639
<v Speaker 2>would feel like to come home and to look around

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<v Speaker 2>and your belongings are gone. Your husband is gone, which

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you don't care so much about that part, because

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<v Speaker 2>things were fractured or falling apart with respect to your marriage,

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<v Speaker 2>but your daughter, and I'm sure that broke her heart.

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<v Speaker 2>Not having any proper recourse, these non custodial parental abductions,

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<v Speaker 2>they're mind boggling to me because it happens so often,

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<v Speaker 2>and it becomes really difficult when that parent is from

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<v Speaker 2>a different country and then they take the child there

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<v Speaker 2>any kind of legal recourse trying to get that child

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<v Speaker 2>back is so so difficult. So my heart breaks for

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00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.000
<v Speaker 2>what she had to endure here. I can't even imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>So at the very least, at least we saw mother

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<v Speaker 2>and child reunited in this specific case.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just such a crazy twist of this whole

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00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.519
<v Speaker 1>story because after Monica's identity was confirmed, she was finally

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<v Speaker 1>brought back to her mother in Burbank, and it was

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00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.039
<v Speaker 1>just in time for Christmas that year, so unsolved mysteries

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00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.759
<v Speaker 1>filmed and emotional reunion where Monica got to meet her

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00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.799
<v Speaker 1>half brother Dorian for the first time because Rosemary had

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00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.119
<v Speaker 1>gone on to have another child, and Guillermo was finally

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00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.680
<v Speaker 1>arrested in charge with parental kidnapping. So even though the

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00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Nileen K. Marshall case has remained unsolved that it is

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00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.680
<v Speaker 1>incredibly sad story. The silver lining is just by pure coincidence.

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<v Speaker 1>It paved the way to a happy ending in another case,

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<v Speaker 1>and a missing children's case which had not gotten any

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00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.480
<v Speaker 1>publicity at all, just wound up being solved purely by

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<v Speaker 1>accident because of a case mistaken identity.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe you share this detail, but I'm just cure

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<v Speaker 2>how many years was Guillermo on the run with Monica?

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<v Speaker 1>Eight years like they had successfully gotten away with it,

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<v Speaker 1>and who knows how much longer they would have been

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<v Speaker 1>able to remain hidden out. It's possible she never would

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<v Speaker 1>have been found in returned to her mother if Nileen's

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00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.079
<v Speaker 1>case enopen featured on Unsow Mysteries, and the school official

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<v Speaker 1>confused Monica for Nileen K. Marshall.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder how Guillermo got Monica to keep quiet during

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<v Speaker 2>that whole time period and not say anything about her

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<v Speaker 2>mother or the situation. Like I wonder if he was

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<v Speaker 2>encouraging her not to make any friends or not to

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<v Speaker 2>make any connections. I would be interested in what her

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<v Speaker 2>interpersonal dynamics were like with her classmates.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I know that Giermo's family told Rosemary that Guillermo

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<v Speaker 1>had actually told Monica that her mother was dead as

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<v Speaker 1>kind of logic for running off, So she probably believed

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<v Speaker 1>him because she was only like five years old when

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<v Speaker 1>she went missing and was very impressionable. But at least

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<v Speaker 1>the silver lining is that Monica did say that Guillermo

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<v Speaker 1>was not abusive or anything that even though he kept

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<v Speaker 1>a close eye on or, he did treat her fairly

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<v Speaker 1>well while they were on the run. But thankfully she

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<v Speaker 1>did finally get to return to her mother. So several

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<v Speaker 1>months after the Unsolved Mystery segment air, there would be

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<v Speaker 1>another bizarre turn of events when a forty two year

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<v Speaker 1>old sex offender named Richard James Wilson turned himself into

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<v Speaker 1>the police in the town of Livingston, Montana. Seven years earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>Wilson had been charged for the sexual assault of a

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<v Speaker 1>minor and received a sense of probation, but now told

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<v Speaker 1>police that he was responsible for the murder of Nileen K. Marshall,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as another woman from the town of Great Falls, Montana,

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<v Speaker 1>though none of the sources say who this other woman

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<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be. Wilson even revealed a location the

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<v Speaker 1>Elkhorn Mountains where he claimed that he disposed of Nyelen's remains,

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<v Speaker 1>and they performed a search of the area but turned

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<v Speaker 1>up nothing. He was held in jail for six days,

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<v Speaker 1>but released after investigators determined that there was no evidence

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<v Speaker 1>to substantiate his confession and charge him with murder. And

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00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.200
<v Speaker 1>it turned out that Wilson had a documented history of

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<v Speaker 1>mental illness and made a bunch of inconsistent statements when

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00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.400
<v Speaker 1>he talked about we abducted Nileen. So it seems like

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00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't think they completely ruled them out as a suspect,

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00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.599
<v Speaker 1>but they are inclined to believe that you just kind

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00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.400
<v Speaker 1>of made a false confession for reasons we don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I always wonder like why people what motivates them,

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00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.119
<v Speaker 2>And I know it's highly individual what people are going through,

393
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:20.680
<v Speaker 2>their personal stressors, what their relationship with reality is at

394
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<v Speaker 2>the time, But false confessions are so befuddling, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think even more so during that time period because people

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00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.400
<v Speaker 2>were less likely to believe that individuals would give false confessions,

397
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.799
<v Speaker 2>So that resulted in a lot of wrongful incarcerations. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's good when you actually hear that law enforcement is

399
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>able to suss out when somebody is giving a false

400
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:42.599
<v Speaker 2>confession during this time period.

401
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I am glad that they didn't just take him

402
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.960
<v Speaker 1>out his word and say, Yay, we've solved the case.

403
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.599
<v Speaker 1>We can keep this guy in custody. But it always

404
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.680
<v Speaker 1>blows my mind when people falsely confess to murdering a child,

405
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Like I can see them confessing to crimes if they

406
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.160
<v Speaker 1>wanted maybe to go to prison, or they wanted the attention.

407
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<v Speaker 1>But if you're charged with this and sent to prison,

408
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 1>you were going to be treated as the absolute lowest

409
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:05.160
<v Speaker 1>scum of humanity there if they believe you're a child killer.

410
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<v Speaker 1>So it just seems crazy that he thought, well, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to turn myself into the police and say that

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<v Speaker 1>I killed a four year old.

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<v Speaker 2>It always reminds me of the John beIN a Ramsey

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00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:14.640
<v Speaker 2>case and John Mark Carr.

415
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, yes, another guy who confessed to murdering her,

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00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.920
<v Speaker 1>even though the confession didn't check out. So believe it

417
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.880
<v Speaker 1>or not. This story gets even crazier because by nineteen

418
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.599
<v Speaker 1>ninety five, the Marshall family had relocated to Japan after

419
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Kim was transferred there for his job, but he was

420
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.839
<v Speaker 1>informed that he was going to receive a new transfer

421
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.039
<v Speaker 1>to a Mexico so while Kim remained in Japan with

422
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.119
<v Speaker 1>the kids, Nancy traveled to Mexico City in order to

423
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.839
<v Speaker 1>look for new houses for the family and was staying

424
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.599
<v Speaker 1>at the Radison Praiseo Hotel. But on July to twenty fourth,

425
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:49.400
<v Speaker 1>she was found dead inside her hotel room at the

426
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>age of forty two. She was hanging from a shower

427
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.440
<v Speaker 1>rod in the bathroom, and Kim was actually at an

428
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.799
<v Speaker 1>airport check in desk in Tokyo preparing to fly to

429
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 1>Mexico City to join Nancy when he was informed about

430
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.599
<v Speaker 1>her death. And believe it or not, even though Nancy

431
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.119
<v Speaker 1>was found hanging with her hands tied behind her back

432
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:09.799
<v Speaker 1>and had been bruised, beaten, and sexually assaulted. The Mexican

433
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.200
<v Speaker 1>authorities ruled her death to be a suicide.

434
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Mexico does not have a very good history with regards

435
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 2>to murders of women. Femicide in Mexico is a huge problem,

436
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.960
<v Speaker 2>and with all of the drug wars and everything, it's

437
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.880
<v Speaker 2>just becomes this peripheral storyline that is secondary to all

438
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.839
<v Speaker 2>of the violence inflicted because of drugs, and it is

439
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.440
<v Speaker 2>really sad. There's been a number of podcasts on it

440
00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:42.240
<v Speaker 2>and all these murders of women and how it seems

441
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:44.559
<v Speaker 2>to be that there's these serial killers that are getting

442
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:48.640
<v Speaker 2>away with murdering women across the border, and it's heartbreaking.

443
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering if this was targeted or if this was

444
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:55.240
<v Speaker 2>just a predator that happened upon her, and it was

445
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>just convenient for the police to just write it off

446
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.920
<v Speaker 2>as a suicide, even though we rarely see it does happen.

447
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:06.000
<v Speaker 2>People do buind their own hands and end their own lives,

448
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:08.960
<v Speaker 2>but it's a very complicated thing. We saw that in

449
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.039
<v Speaker 2>the case of Rebecca's how whether or not she was

450
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 2>murdered or whether or not it was indeed suicide. So

451
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.359
<v Speaker 2>people will debate that back and forth, and I think

452
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.880
<v Speaker 2>this is not similar in the way that there is

453
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.920
<v Speaker 2>evidence that she was sexually assaulted and that she was beaten,

454
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.839
<v Speaker 2>So you're adding a whole other layer there where it's

455
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.640
<v Speaker 2>like she didn't sexually assault herself and she didn't beat herself.

456
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. I think like Nancy was probably just targeted

457
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>at random by someone who wanted to rob her, and

458
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.119
<v Speaker 1>that the police were just incredibly lazy and didn't want

459
00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:46.599
<v Speaker 1>to perform a proper homicide investigation. I know that when

460
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Kim spoke to Nancy's friends whom she had met up

461
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.119
<v Speaker 1>with on the night before her body was found, they

462
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.319
<v Speaker 1>all said that yet she seemed happy, nothing was out

463
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.640
<v Speaker 1>of the ordinary. She was definitely not suicidal. And it

464
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:58.839
<v Speaker 1>also turned out that our hotel room door had been

465
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.319
<v Speaker 1>kicked in, number of her valuables, including her wedding ring,

466
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.759
<v Speaker 1>were missing. So yeah, it really seems like she was

467
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.720
<v Speaker 1>targeted for a robbery, but investigators, because they were lazy,

468
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.839
<v Speaker 1>just stood by their suicide ruling and wouldn't perform a

469
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.000
<v Speaker 1>proper investigation. So Kim got absolutely outraged by this. He

470
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:18.960
<v Speaker 1>hired his own private investigator, and he actually got the

471
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.400
<v Speaker 1>state department involved and after this caused some controversy, the

472
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Mexican authorities have reluctantly agreed to change the status of

473
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Nancy's case to undetermined and under investigation, though they didn't

474
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 1>officially reclassify it as a homicide. But unfortunately, the state

475
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.559
<v Speaker 1>department advised Kim that if he continued to push for

476
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>a homicide investigation, the police would just hold onto her

477
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 1>body until it was solved, which might never happen, and

478
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.359
<v Speaker 1>would not release Nancy's body for burial. So Kim ultimately

479
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:50.119
<v Speaker 1>decided to relent and call off as private investigator. So

480
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.839
<v Speaker 1>Nancy's body was finally returned to her family and brought

481
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.319
<v Speaker 1>back to the United States, and she was buried in

482
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>her hometown of Allen, Texas. Nancy's murderer is technically still

483
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.279
<v Speaker 1>consider to be unsolved, but her death is not believed

484
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.839
<v Speaker 1>to have any connection to dye Leen's disappearance. It just

485
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.799
<v Speaker 1>shows that this poor family has just had so much

486
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:09.240
<v Speaker 1>tragedy inflicted on them.

487
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.519
<v Speaker 2>We see this time and time again where it feels

488
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.359
<v Speaker 2>like the probability is so low that tragedy would strike

489
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.359
<v Speaker 2>in the same capacity. I mean, this appears like it

490
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:22.599
<v Speaker 2>was at random and somebody was going to rob her,

491
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:25.400
<v Speaker 2>and so they decided to sexually assault and kill her

492
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 2>at the same time. But you think of families like

493
00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>the Kennedy's where there's tragedy after tragedy after tragedy, and

494
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:36.079
<v Speaker 2>it's almost like tragedy begets more tragedy that wouldn't have happened.

495
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:38.599
<v Speaker 2>If you look at like the movie Sliding Doors, had

496
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Nileen not been abducted, then we wouldn't see Nancy being murdered,

497
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.880
<v Speaker 2>and we wouldn't see Kim being without his daughter and

498
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 2>without his wife. So this is just incredibly heartbreaking to

499
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.559
<v Speaker 2>think that, just by chance, being in the wrong place

500
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 2>at the wrong time, that this could happen to you.

501
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.559
<v Speaker 2>And so I truly truly feel for this family. I

502
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.720
<v Speaker 2>can't imagine what that type of loss would do. And

503
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.759
<v Speaker 2>to think you're still grappling with the death or not

504
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 2>death what you might assume to be the death, but

505
00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:16.519
<v Speaker 2>your daughter being missing, thinking maybe she's alive, maybe she's deceased,

506
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and then to have your wife be killed in such

507
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.519
<v Speaker 2>a capacity, and then you've got a whole other fight

508
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.039
<v Speaker 2>on your hands because you're fighting with the Mexican authorities

509
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>who are essentially holding her body hostage. Saying, call off

510
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.079
<v Speaker 2>your dogs, stop investigating. We will put it as undetermined

511
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.359
<v Speaker 2>and under investigation, which, like, I'm sorry, but I find

512
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that to be a little bit laughable. Are you going

513
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to put it under investigation? Are you going to allocate

514
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 2>any resources to investigating who did this? I don't personally believe.

515
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.920
<v Speaker 2>So I think the undetermined is just how you get

516
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:51.359
<v Speaker 2>the family off of your backs. And they are dealing

517
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.240
<v Speaker 2>in Mexico with a lot of murders and a lot

518
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 2>of violence that a lot of it has to do

519
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.920
<v Speaker 2>with drug wars during that time period as well. So

520
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.640
<v Speaker 2>imagine that they have their hands full and that they're

521
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.839
<v Speaker 2>looking at the death of a foreigner and thinking it's

522
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>so much easier to just write this off as a suicide.

523
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>This man is being incredibly annoying, and so how can

524
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 2>we get him to leave us alone? And so they

525
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:15.960
<v Speaker 2>acquiesce and say, Okay, I'm determined is what we're going

526
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 2>to go with, and it's going to be under investigation,

527
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.519
<v Speaker 2>which I just don't believe the under investigation part.

528
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Of it, definitely, And I've heard horror stories that even

529
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 1>if they say they're going to investigate and hold onto

530
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.599
<v Speaker 1>the body for evidence, that sometimes they just bury them

531
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:31.599
<v Speaker 1>in an unmarked grave somewhere to get rid of it.

532
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 1>So I can to understand Kim's logic feeling that if

533
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 1>I keep this investigation open, I may never see Nancy's

534
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.440
<v Speaker 1>body again. So that's why I have to back off

535
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:43.279
<v Speaker 1>to ensure that she receives a proper burial on American soil.

536
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:45.880
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, looking back at the Unsolved Mystery segment, it's

537
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.759
<v Speaker 1>so poignant to see Nancy's interview where she's talking about

538
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 1>c Ni Leen in public places all the time knowing

539
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 1>that she herself would be murdered just a couple of

540
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.680
<v Speaker 1>years after that was filmed. I remember finding out that

541
00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Nancy had died, and initially assumed that she probably died

542
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>of grief for health problems from losing her own child,

543
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 1>and then was just blown away many years later when

544
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 1>I found out that she herself had been murdered in Mexico.

545
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:11.680
<v Speaker 1>So there'd be another bizarre lead. In June of nineteen

546
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight, when they were looking into the possibility that

547
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Nileen was a young woman who had been seen in

548
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:21.319
<v Speaker 1>New Orleans, Louisiana, two years earlier. According to a nurse,

549
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.799
<v Speaker 1>a young pregnant woman had visited the hospital in New

550
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:27.039
<v Speaker 1>Orleans alongside an older man in hopes of being admitted

551
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:29.160
<v Speaker 1>to give birth. The woman said that her name was

552
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Helena and that she was nineteen years old. But while

553
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.160
<v Speaker 1>she said she did not remember much about her childhood,

554
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:37.200
<v Speaker 1>she thought her mother's name might have been Nileen. She

555
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:39.880
<v Speaker 1>also mentioned having grown up in another country, even though

556
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.039
<v Speaker 1>she did not speak with any trace of an accent,

557
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:44.720
<v Speaker 1>so the staff thought there was something odd about the

558
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:46.839
<v Speaker 1>man and the woman, but when they tried to ask

559
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:50.440
<v Speaker 1>them more questions about her identity and medical history, the

560
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.880
<v Speaker 1>couple left the hospital without even being admitted or giving birth,

561
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.079
<v Speaker 1>so naturally this raised some red flags. A couple weeks

562
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.440
<v Speaker 1>after this, one of the nurses saw a rerun of

563
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.839
<v Speaker 1>the Nileen ky Marshall's segment on Unsow Mysteries and became

564
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.799
<v Speaker 1>convinced that this young woman might be her, particularly since

565
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.359
<v Speaker 1>she said her name was Helena, which of course was

566
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 1>the same name as Helena National Forest, the location where

567
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Nileen went missing. So by nineteen ninety eight, they finally

568
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:20.319
<v Speaker 1>found the mysterious Helena and her male companion in Oklahoma City,

569
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.480
<v Speaker 1>and when questioned, Helena agreed to provide a sample of

570
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.119
<v Speaker 1>her DNA. It turned out that Nancy Hyde provided a

571
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 1>sample of her blood to the FBI ten years earlier,

572
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.799
<v Speaker 1>but it had greatly degraded by this point, so they

573
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.599
<v Speaker 1>actually had to track down Nilen's biological father, Bill Briscoe,

574
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:39.200
<v Speaker 1>to get a sample of his DNA, because of course

575
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.519
<v Speaker 1>Kim Marshall was just Nilen's stepfather, so he wouldn't have

576
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:45.799
<v Speaker 1>had the same DNA. But they did a comparison and

577
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 1>finally ruled out the possibility that this woman Helena was

578
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Nileen because the DNA did not match. But unfortunately there's

579
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:54.559
<v Speaker 1>no follow up. So I would really like to know

580
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.839
<v Speaker 1>more about Helena's backstory, since it sounded like something awfully

581
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.079
<v Speaker 1>sketchy was going on with her and this other.

582
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's all of these interesting subplots along with this case,

583
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.039
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I would like to know what was going

584
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 2>on with Helena. If you're about to give birth, what

585
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.880
<v Speaker 2>would be the impetus for leaving the hospital? You're in

586
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.480
<v Speaker 2>a safe place where you can deliver your baby, and

587
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you're running away from that safe place to go where

588
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:22.519
<v Speaker 2>and why? I want to know more.

589
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, unfortunately we don't have more. At least with Monica Bania,

590
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.119
<v Speaker 1>we finally got the full backstory, but it is kind

591
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.079
<v Speaker 1>of crazy that they found no less than two older

592
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:35.599
<v Speaker 1>children who people thought might be Nileen and were ruled out,

593
00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:38.880
<v Speaker 1>but seem to have interesting abduction stories of their own.

594
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 1>So by the time this development occurred in nineteen ninety eight,

595
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Kim Marshall had got remarried and relocated to Texas with

596
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Nileen's two other siblings, Nathan and Noreen. But during an

597
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.720
<v Speaker 1>interview with Nancy's sister, Mickey Kinsley, she revealed that there

598
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:57.000
<v Speaker 1>have been a lot of friction between her side of

599
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.680
<v Speaker 1>the family and Kim, as she did not believe that

600
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 1>Kim was forthcoming about the details of Nancy's death with them,

601
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.720
<v Speaker 1>and also alleged that Kim was abusive towards his family.

602
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.079
<v Speaker 1>Kim responded by stating that Nancy's family had serious problems

603
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:13.559
<v Speaker 1>of their own and that Nancy had al always had

604
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 1>issues with them and was practically a strange from her

605
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.039
<v Speaker 1>side of the family, so he said, you should take

606
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.839
<v Speaker 1>anything they say with a grain of salt because they

607
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>just don't personally like me. And they also interviewed Nileen's

608
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 1>younger sister, Noraene, who publicly denied the allegations that her

609
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:32.759
<v Speaker 1>father was abusive, and she stated, quote, my father has

610
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 1>never laid a hand on us. It really angers. My

611
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.920
<v Speaker 1>father has been supportive of Nathan and I and done

612
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.319
<v Speaker 1>whatever he could for us end quote.

613
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's pretty natural with families for

614
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>there to be some kind of infighting and finger pointing,

615
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.039
<v Speaker 2>especially when there isn't a resolution. But it feels so

616
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>protracted this information about Kim coming out, does it not?

617
00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:57.720
<v Speaker 1>It does? Yeah, And the only time I've ever seen

618
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 1>any comment from law enforcement is during an news segment

619
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.640
<v Speaker 1>from twenty thirteen where the interviewed the Jefferson County Sheriff

620
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 1>at that time, Craig Doolittle, who stated, quote, from what

621
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.839
<v Speaker 1>I've been told, the stepfather was and was throughout the investigation,

622
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:13.680
<v Speaker 1>considered to be a person of interest end quote. But

623
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.200
<v Speaker 1>other than that, I haven't heard anything. But if you

624
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:20.160
<v Speaker 1>research this case online on discussion boards and message boards,

625
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.599
<v Speaker 1>you'll see a lot of uncorroborated rumors in innuendo about

626
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Kim possibly being not only responsible for ni Leen's disappearance,

627
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.039
<v Speaker 1>but arranging for Nancy's murder in Mexico City, even though

628
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 1>he was in Tokyo at the time. But of course,

629
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:36.400
<v Speaker 1>the few comments we have seen from Noreen, she talks

630
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>about him as a loving father and says there are

631
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:40.680
<v Speaker 1>no problems in the marriage, no problems with the children.

632
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.480
<v Speaker 1>And I've noticed apparently that some of these comments online

633
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:48.599
<v Speaker 1>are apparently from family members of Bill Briscoe, who was

634
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 1>ni Lean's biological father, who played no role in her

635
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.279
<v Speaker 1>life whatsoever. And Kim legally adopted Nileen when he married

636
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Nancy and pretty much raised her as her own daughter.

637
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:02.920
<v Speaker 1>So you've not seen any indication that Kim ever did

638
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 1>anything wrong. It seems like it's nothing more than rumors

639
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 1>here saying innuendo. And when you look at the logistics,

640
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.559
<v Speaker 1>like I have to assume that Kim's like whereabouts on

641
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:16.240
<v Speaker 1>the entire day Nileen went missing would have been accounted for.

642
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 1>He was at a picnic with other people. He probably

643
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.279
<v Speaker 1>didn't have many moments when he was off by himself.

644
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.680
<v Speaker 1>So I have a hard time believing, even though the

645
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:25.759
<v Speaker 1>sheriff says he was a person of interest, that he

646
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:28.839
<v Speaker 1>would have been responsible for Nileen's disappearance.

647
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it feels like these insults and these critiques of

648
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.359
<v Speaker 2>Kim are targeted, especially since we know that it's from

649
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.880
<v Speaker 2>potentially estranged members of Nancy's family and or Bill Brisco's family.

650
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>So these are people that may want they may feel

651
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:49.799
<v Speaker 2>like they're helping. But if we're going to go off

652
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:52.559
<v Speaker 2>what Noreen has said about Kim as a father and

653
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.519
<v Speaker 2>as a husband, and I feel like we've got no

654
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.440
<v Speaker 2>reason not to believe her. If there's people where there's

655
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:02.319
<v Speaker 2>any strife in the relationship with Noreene, then we can

656
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 2>understand why they would be pointing the finger at Kim,

657
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 2>and they wouldn't have an accurate representation of what that

658
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.039
<v Speaker 2>relationship was like since they weren't close and Bill Briscoe

659
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:16.599
<v Speaker 2>wasn't even involved in his daughter's life. So I don't

660
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.679
<v Speaker 2>know if this is him trying to just paint himself

661
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:21.960
<v Speaker 2>as being the better person and paint Kim as being

662
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.400
<v Speaker 2>a bad person, because maybe there's some type of guilt

663
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:29.000
<v Speaker 2>there of not being present and being like he could

664
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.440
<v Speaker 2>have done more to protect my daughter, even though Bill

665
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:36.639
<v Speaker 2>wasn't present, wasn't involved, wasn't doing anything. Kim was the

666
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>one who was showing up for Nileen. He adopted her,

667
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:42.840
<v Speaker 2>So it shows a certain level of care there. And

668
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:46.559
<v Speaker 2>it's not to say all adoptive parents are wonderful humans

669
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:50.320
<v Speaker 2>and great parents. But it shows that he loved Nancy

670
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.199
<v Speaker 2>and cared for Nileen. And so what we're reading these

671
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>uncorroborated accounts on message boards, I'm going to say that

672
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I large disregarded. There's a possibility, of course, that Kim

673
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.280
<v Speaker 2>could be involved, but I think when we start extending

674
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.519
<v Speaker 2>it to these conspiracy theories that he was involved in

675
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:11.079
<v Speaker 2>this what murder for Higher plot while he was in

676
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Tokyo of his wife in Mexico, it's sounding a little

677
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 2>bit unbelievable. It's not like he could go to the

678
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 2>dark web during this time period, yeah, and like set

679
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 2>up a hit man, Like how would he orchestrate that?

680
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it just seems kind of ridiculous here, and it

681
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.480
<v Speaker 1>sounds like it's just from personal drama that maybe Nancy's

682
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 1>side of the family did not like him and are

683
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.760
<v Speaker 1>just trying to point the finger at him. But even

684
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 1>though Kim was not interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries, he did

685
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.679
<v Speaker 1>do a lot of interviews alongside Nancy during the nineteen eighties,

686
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.920
<v Speaker 1>like they were the ones pushing for an investigation. So, yeah,

687
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.039
<v Speaker 1>even though Kim was not interviewed during the Unsolved Mystery segment.

688
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:46.360
<v Speaker 1>He did do a lot of interviews with the local

689
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.440
<v Speaker 1>media during the nineteen eighties alongside Nancy, because remember, the

690
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement seemed content to write off Nileen's disappearance as

691
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:56.800
<v Speaker 1>her just wandering off into the woods and dying of exposure,

692
00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.760
<v Speaker 1>whereas Kim and Nancy were pushed forwarding the idea that

693
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>she was abducted by this mysterious man in the jogging suit.

694
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:05.199
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know why Kim would be doing that

695
00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:08.320
<v Speaker 1>if he was personally involved. And also they did a

696
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of things to help other families because in the

697
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>mid eighties they formed a nonprofit search dog corporation called

698
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Big Sky Rescue Dogs because they felt that if we

699
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.519
<v Speaker 1>had had these dogs during our original search effort for Nileen,

700
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:22.800
<v Speaker 1>perhaps they would have found her in the forest. So

701
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.719
<v Speaker 1>now we're going to start this resource to help the

702
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:26.920
<v Speaker 1>families of other missing children. And I can't see a

703
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:29.599
<v Speaker 1>guy doing that, killing his own daughter and then going

704
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:31.599
<v Speaker 1>out of his way to try to help other families

705
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:32.719
<v Speaker 1>just a couple of years later.

706
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't see it either. I think the probability of

707
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Kim making a big deal about Nileen being abducted if

708
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement. As we know, they believed that she wandered

709
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:48.840
<v Speaker 2>into the woods and died of exposure. So why sound

710
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.119
<v Speaker 2>the alarm? Why make this big deal out of this

711
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>when they're looking in a complete other direction. Let them

712
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>look in that other direction. If you are indeed guilty,

713
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:02.000
<v Speaker 2>why'd be like, oh, she was probably abducted. That doesn't

714
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:04.559
<v Speaker 2>really ring true to me. And then going so far

715
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:09.039
<v Speaker 2>as to start this rescue dog organization, Big Sky Rescue Dogs.

716
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>It speaks to somebody who truly wants to find Nileen,

717
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:17.039
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's still committed. If you were responsible, would you really,

718
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.280
<v Speaker 2>in the aftermath continue to look and go so far

719
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 2>as to start these types of organizations to help other people?

720
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.840
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't ring true as like a guilty person's actions

721
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 2>to me personally.

722
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Definitely not No, And in retrospect I kind of wondered

723
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:36.800
<v Speaker 1>maybe if law enforcement like had developed tunnel vision, maybe

724
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:39.440
<v Speaker 1>they were they were disregarding these sightings of the children

725
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.079
<v Speaker 1>of the man in the jogging suit because maybe they

726
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.079
<v Speaker 1>thought Kim was responsible and he was trying to use

727
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:46.719
<v Speaker 1>hypnosis to like plant these false memories in them and

728
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 1>provide this fictitious story about the jogging suit guy to

729
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:53.119
<v Speaker 1>take suspicion off himself, which just seems pretty ridiculous, but

730
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.920
<v Speaker 1>then completely change their tune once the phone calls and

731
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the anonymous letters started happening, thinking, Okay, like, this guy

732
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.199
<v Speaker 1>has revealed information about that Nilen's disappearance which he could

733
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:04.639
<v Speaker 1>not have known unless he was responsible. So it's clear

734
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.559
<v Speaker 1>that Kim was not involved in this. But maybe that's

735
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.239
<v Speaker 1>why they originally considered him to be a person of interest.

736
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:13.719
<v Speaker 1>But I know that after nineteen ninety eight, after Nancy

737
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 1>started the side of the family started flinging mud at Kim,

738
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 1>that he pretty much stayed out of the spotlight. He's

739
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.880
<v Speaker 1>lived a quiet life ever since with his two other children,

740
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and has not done any interviews in many years. But yeah,

741
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 1>I completely agree that he was probably not involved in

742
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.320
<v Speaker 1>any way, and he was not involved in Nancy's murder either,

743
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:33.199
<v Speaker 1>And I do think that the scenario of Nileen being

744
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:35.960
<v Speaker 1>abducted by the man in the jogging suit is probably

745
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.760
<v Speaker 1>the correct one. But it's just a matter of the letters.

746
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Here was this guy telling the truth about Kim raising

747
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Nileen for a couple of years as his own or

748
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.800
<v Speaker 1>was nothing more than an elaborate fantasy, because instead he

749
00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 1>killed her on the same day that she went missing,

750
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:55.519
<v Speaker 1>and her body is still out there somewhere. So yeah,

751
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm inclined to believe that Nileen is no longer alive

752
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.360
<v Speaker 1>because I have a hard time believing that you would

753
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.440
<v Speaker 1>be living over forty years now under a new identity.

754
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe that she wandered off and died of exposure.

755
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.079
<v Speaker 1>And because we have so many different accounts from these

756
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.719
<v Speaker 1>witnesses about the man in the jogging suit, I have

757
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.440
<v Speaker 1>a feeling that this guy was the abductor, but I'm

758
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.960
<v Speaker 1>still on the fence about whether he killed her immediately

759
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.320
<v Speaker 1>or if at the very least he kept her alive

760
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and raised her as his own for a couple of years.

761
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 1>Do you have any thoughts?

762
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, I'm inclined to agree with you that the

763
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:28.679
<v Speaker 2>abductor was the guy in the jogging suit. I think

764
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:33.400
<v Speaker 2>more care should have been taken with getting these statements

765
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:37.719
<v Speaker 2>from these children and pursuing the lead. I think they

766
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.280
<v Speaker 2>wrote them off because it was children and they thought

767
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.559
<v Speaker 2>this is incredible. She most likely wandered off, and that

768
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.239
<v Speaker 2>is typical of cases at the time, and the way

769
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that they investigated them. Unfortunately, even when it was missing children,

770
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.360
<v Speaker 2>and so I believe that there is a possibility that

771
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:56.880
<v Speaker 2>he took Nileen and he kept her for a period

772
00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.519
<v Speaker 2>of time, maybe a couple of years, But I do

773
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:02.559
<v Speaker 2>not believe that it was a long term thing. There

774
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.519
<v Speaker 2>would be a point where she has to enter school

775
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.280
<v Speaker 2>and or people are going to start asking questions that

776
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:13.440
<v Speaker 2>it becomes untenable. And so personally, I'm just picking an

777
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.159
<v Speaker 2>arbitrary number, but I feel like a couple of years.

778
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.639
<v Speaker 2>But after that, I feel like it would become too

779
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.559
<v Speaker 2>dangerous to keep her alive. And then all of the questions,

780
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:25.079
<v Speaker 2>all of the things that you have to do to

781
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:28.519
<v Speaker 2>cover up for having this young girl living with you,

782
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.880
<v Speaker 2>it starts to grow and it starts to snowball. And

783
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what the abductor perpetrator, what his life

784
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.039
<v Speaker 2>looked like, what type of connections that he had, who

785
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:41.800
<v Speaker 2>was in his life, who would be asking questions? Was

786
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:45.760
<v Speaker 2>he incredibly isolated, lived a solitary existence where it would

787
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:48.519
<v Speaker 2>be easy to cover up having a girl living in

788
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:51.679
<v Speaker 2>your house, or would it be a situation where it

789
00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:54.079
<v Speaker 2>was more difficult. Maybe he had a partner, Maybe he

790
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>had to hide her in like a Heidi Hole type

791
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.599
<v Speaker 2>room in his place. There's a lot that we don't

792
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.679
<v Speaker 2>know about who this perpetrator is and what their life

793
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>looks like. If it is indeed that scenario that we

794
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.079
<v Speaker 2>both believe that it is so, I think that by

795
00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:14.239
<v Speaker 2>the time he wrote those letters, he had already killed Nileen.

796
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>That is my one hundred percent belief based on the

797
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.159
<v Speaker 2>contents of the letters. I would have to go through

798
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:24.760
<v Speaker 2>it in more detail and look for statements where he's

799
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of leaking the truth and or there is deception,

800
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.119
<v Speaker 2>But just based on what Robin shared with me, I

801
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:33.599
<v Speaker 2>think she was deceased at this point in time. He's

802
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.679
<v Speaker 2>trying to rewrite a narrative. He's trying to resurrect her

803
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.519
<v Speaker 2>through his words and trying to at the same time

804
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:44.760
<v Speaker 2>paint himself as being more heroic than being this child

805
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.920
<v Speaker 2>predator by saying like, oh, she was wandering by herself

806
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.639
<v Speaker 2>on this road. I think that he likely is indeed

807
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:54.239
<v Speaker 2>the jogging suit man, and he's just trying to reframe.

808
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.719
<v Speaker 2>Let's reframe this and make me look even better. Let's

809
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:01.199
<v Speaker 2>reframe it and make Nileen alive and that she's cared

810
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:03.639
<v Speaker 2>for and that she's loved. And I think in doing

811
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:07.360
<v Speaker 2>that letter, he just puts out a little bit of

812
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.320
<v Speaker 2>something disgusting with the seamen where he's trying to go, Okay, see,

813
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I disclosed this, I'm honest, this is honest. You can

814
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:19.320
<v Speaker 2>trust me. I believe that in sharing this gross detail,

815
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:23.119
<v Speaker 2>he's trying to get the trust of the reader and

816
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:25.360
<v Speaker 2>so that they'll believe the rest of what he's saying.

817
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:28.079
<v Speaker 2>But I do not believe it. That word snuggle really

818
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.320
<v Speaker 2>hit me in the gut, and I would like to

819
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:33.239
<v Speaker 2>go through this in more detail at some point in time,

820
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.119
<v Speaker 2>but I believe his account to be bs and I

821
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:38.440
<v Speaker 2>do not think that Nileen was alive at this point

822
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:40.719
<v Speaker 2>in time. I think part of it is a guilty

823
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:44.440
<v Speaker 2>conscience and the desire to reframe it because law enforcement

824
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.760
<v Speaker 2>isn't digging that deep like this isn't like front page headlines,

825
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:50.599
<v Speaker 2>So coming forward was more about him than it was

826
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:52.280
<v Speaker 2>about law enforcement in my opinion.

827
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me, because it was

828
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.239
<v Speaker 1>like over two and a half years after Nileen originally

829
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.599
<v Speaker 1>went missing. When the phone calls in the LA start

830
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and you're wondering, why is he waiting all this time?

831
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Why is he bringing this back into the spotlight when

832
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.159
<v Speaker 1>law enforcement is inclined to write her off as just

833
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:10.760
<v Speaker 1>some child who wandered in the woods and died of exposure.

834
00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:13.440
<v Speaker 1>But I think you're onto something that he probably kept

835
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Nileen for a few years but had killed her a

836
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:18.760
<v Speaker 1>short time before he started doing this just to create

837
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 1>this false narrative, and he probably knew it was less risky,

838
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:23.559
<v Speaker 1>saying that if I've gotten rid of her body, that

839
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:25.400
<v Speaker 1>even if they tracked this to me, I could just

840
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.239
<v Speaker 1>say it was a prank and they don't have any

841
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:31.000
<v Speaker 1>evidence that I'm the actual perpetrator. And I really do

842
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:34.079
<v Speaker 1>hope that that detail about the spoonful of semen is false,

843
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:36.559
<v Speaker 1>that he never actually did that. But at the same time,

844
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:39.199
<v Speaker 1>you're wondering who could just make up something like that

845
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:41.559
<v Speaker 1>and throw that in there. So it is just kind

846
00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 1>of a weird letter where at the same time it

847
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:46.880
<v Speaker 1>has these disgusting details, Yet he's also creating this fantasy scenario,

848
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:49.880
<v Speaker 1>saying I'm giving her a good life, I'm traveling around

849
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.239
<v Speaker 1>to places like Great Britain and doing all this stuff

850
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.119
<v Speaker 1>with her, which I'm sure is completely one hundred percent false.

851
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:57.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he took her on all these trips,

852
00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:59.199
<v Speaker 1>and I guess it was just his way of trying

853
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:01.760
<v Speaker 1>to clear his con saying that I did this horrible thing,

854
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:03.679
<v Speaker 1>but I'm going to write this letter to make it

855
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.199
<v Speaker 1>look like I'm this loving guardian who's giving Nileen a

856
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.719
<v Speaker 1>good life and maybe try to take some burn off

857
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.280
<v Speaker 1>her parents make her think that she's still alive somewhere

858
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.239
<v Speaker 1>and being well cared for. Even though I'm including all

859
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:15.599
<v Speaker 1>these discussing details.

860
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.440
<v Speaker 2>This is like a left field, but it totally reminds

861
00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:21.360
<v Speaker 2>me of this like the classic series of like vander

862
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Pump Rules. There's this one character, James. His mom is

863
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:29.360
<v Speaker 2>and his father both have substance use disorder, and his

864
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:34.840
<v Speaker 2>mother exhibits behaviors where she potentially has multiple different personality

865
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 2>disorders and narcissistic traits. There's a lot going on there,

866
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:42.519
<v Speaker 2>and they had put a lot of responsibility on this

867
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:45.519
<v Speaker 2>kid who's twenty something to be supporting both parents and

868
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:48.920
<v Speaker 2>supporting his siblings. And they used to have money, the

869
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>dad had worked for was best friends and managed boy

870
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.159
<v Speaker 2>George back in the day and a real fall from grace.

871
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.760
<v Speaker 2>But this horrible situation in scenario where they put way

872
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.000
<v Speaker 2>too much responsibility on him and the mom looks at

873
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 2>him like trying to justify her actions of constantly like

874
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 2>asking him for money and requiring way too much of him,

875
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.519
<v Speaker 2>and says, you took your first steps at Tiffany's and

876
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like it reminds me of going to this luxury

877
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:18.360
<v Speaker 2>store when you're a child. Somehow justifies all of these

878
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:22.039
<v Speaker 2>other actions later. And I get this vibe with this perpetrator,

879
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.559
<v Speaker 2>being like I gave her a spoonful of semen, but

880
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:26.599
<v Speaker 2>yet she got to go on all of these trips

881
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and she could very you know, she could recount all

882
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 2>of them. It's like one doesn't cancel out the other.

883
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:35.039
<v Speaker 2>You don't get to say I took her traveling to

884
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.920
<v Speaker 2>all of these places. Look at the luxury that I'm providing,

885
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.920
<v Speaker 2>and I've got this investment income. Look at me, like

886
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:44.039
<v Speaker 2>I can give her this great life. It doesn't make

887
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:46.519
<v Speaker 2>up for the fact that you just went and disclose

888
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.079
<v Speaker 2>to us that you're snuggling her and feeding her spoonfuls

889
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:53.119
<v Speaker 2>of semen. So I think that there's a level of

890
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:56.960
<v Speaker 2>delusion there in thinking that somehow the reader will be like, oh,

891
00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:58.039
<v Speaker 2>well that's okay, then.

892
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, and that that's why I would really like

893
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:02.920
<v Speaker 1>to solve this case because I really want to find

894
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:05.920
<v Speaker 1>out this person's identity and learn more about their background,

895
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.719
<v Speaker 1>to know what they were thinking. And I've never seen

896
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:10.360
<v Speaker 1>this mentioned, but I do know that a lot of

897
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:13.719
<v Speaker 1>cold cases sometimes get solved with anonymous letters when they

898
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 1>get DNA from the seal of the envelope if they

899
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.119
<v Speaker 1>liked it. So I wonder if they've ever thought of

900
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.760
<v Speaker 1>that as an option, and that even if this perpetrator

901
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.760
<v Speaker 1>is now deceased, maybe they could link his DNA to

902
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the letter and maybe identify him after all this time.

903
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.760
<v Speaker 1>So any further thoughts on the disappearance of Nileen k Marshall.

904
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:34.320
<v Speaker 2>God, my heart just goes out to Kim here. There's

905
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of loss to have to lose Nileen obviously

906
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.920
<v Speaker 2>not his biological daughter, but he adopted her. It's essentially

907
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.639
<v Speaker 2>his daughter. And then also to have this happen to Nancy,

908
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.679
<v Speaker 2>to have her murdered in Mexico, and then to have

909
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:52.119
<v Speaker 2>these medicines or you know, people who are relatives of

910
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.119
<v Speaker 2>Bill and or Nancy pointing the finger at him and

911
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.559
<v Speaker 2>making him out to be abusive and potentially a murderer,

912
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:02.119
<v Speaker 2>and not only of nice Eileen, but of setting up

913
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the murder of Nancy in Mexico, which is just so

914
00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:08.719
<v Speaker 2>unbelievable in my opinion. So my heart really breaks for

915
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:12.400
<v Speaker 2>him and the amount of trauma that he's had to

916
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:17.719
<v Speaker 2>endure with losing Nileen and then losing Nancy as well.

917
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just so much tragedy with his entire family, And

918
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.320
<v Speaker 1>like I said, and always haunting when you watch old

919
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:27.840
<v Speaker 1>unsolved mystery segments and realize that, like the family members

920
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:31.039
<v Speaker 1>of these victims have since passed away, but in Nancy's case,

921
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:33.519
<v Speaker 1>to become the victim of a brutal murder that is

922
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:36.079
<v Speaker 1>still unsolved on its own, and knowing that the Mexican

923
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.840
<v Speaker 1>police will never try to do anything to solve it.

924
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.519
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I think this could have turned out differently

925
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:44.480
<v Speaker 1>if the police had taken Nileen's disappearance a lot more

926
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:47.800
<v Speaker 1>seriously at first and not thought she had simply gotten lost.

927
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:49.719
<v Speaker 1>But this is a sign of the times back in

928
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.119
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen eighties, and it's because of cases like Nileen's

929
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.960
<v Speaker 1>that law enforcement and families have become a lot more

930
00:47:55.960 --> 00:48:00.679
<v Speaker 1>cautious about people who will abduct and harm children. And hopefully,

931
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 1>one of these days they can find her remains and

932
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.519
<v Speaker 1>possibly figure out the identity of the person who did this.

933
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.519
<v Speaker 1>So that about brings an end to this series of

934
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:10.760
<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Path Went Chili. Thank you so much

935
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:12.800
<v Speaker 1>for your support, and we'll be back next week to

936
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.280
<v Speaker 1>start talking about another case.

937
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

938
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

939
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

940
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:25.239
<v Speaker 1>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

941
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 1>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

942
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.559
<v Speaker 1>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

943
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:34.159
<v Speaker 1>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

944
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:38.320
<v Speaker 1>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

945
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:41.480
<v Speaker 1>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

946
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:44.840
<v Speaker 1>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

947
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.639
<v Speaker 1>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

948
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:50.639
<v Speaker 1>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

949
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:55.000
<v Speaker 1>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsolved Mysteries,

950
00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

951
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:01.480
<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

952
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:04.920
<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

953
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:08.039
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

954
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:11.519
<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode and Incidentally, the very

955
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.360
<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

956
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.159
<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

957
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.920
<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

958
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.960
<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

959
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

960
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:25.480
<v Speaker 2>So I want to let you know a little bit

961
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:27.320
<v Speaker 2>about the jeweles and Nashty patreons.

962
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.519
<v Speaker 3>So there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili.

963
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:33.800
<v Speaker 3>We've got our Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over

964
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:35.880
<v Speaker 3>an hour, so they're not very mini, but they're just

965
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.400
<v Speaker 3>too short to turn into a series, and we're really

966
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.679
<v Speaker 3>enjoying doing those. So we hope you'll check out those patreons.

967
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.159
<v Speaker 3>We'll link them in the show notes.

968
00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:45.639
<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

969
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.079
<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

970
00:49:48.199 --> 00:49:51.159
<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

971
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.159
<v Speaker 1>You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

972
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.239
<v Speaker 1>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So

973
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.880
<v Speaker 1>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

974
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.440
<v Speaker 1>trails and chilly pass call for warm clothing.

975
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy