Speaker 1: Oh hey, it's that little beetlegrub in your compost that
Speaker 1: you mistook for a dead human finger. Alli board just
Speaker 1: squirming toward one of the most exciting episodes of Ologies
Speaker 1: in the three year history of the show. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have rockstar ologists on every week, but celebs, I mean,
Speaker 1: we have a verifiable famous person on this week, and
Speaker 1: like what's next Vibology with Paula abdul Iconology with Missy Elliott.
Speaker 1: I mean, the sky's the limit. But before I sit
Speaker 1: down with our collective personal hero. Some thanks to patrons
Speaker 1: at patreon dot com sloshologies for submitting the questions for
Speaker 1: this episode, for every episode, and for supporting the show
Speaker 1: each and every day. If you want to join that,
Speaker 1: it's a dollar a month. Literally, twelve dollars a year
Speaker 1: gets you access to submit questions for over fifty episodes,
Speaker 1: so it's cheaper than a parking meter, folks. That's Patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slashologies. Also thank you to everyone rating the
Speaker 1: show and subscribing and spreading the word. It matters so
Speaker 1: much as do reviews, and I read all of your
Speaker 1: reviews because I love you back, such as this freshy
Speaker 1: from Carly who says pretty sure ologies cured my cancer,
Speaker 1: but for real though almost a year of chemo surgeries
Speaker 1: in quarantine, hearing a Tasmanian devil screech, or learning how
Speaker 1: not to lose a boat has been the highlight of
Speaker 1: my journey. You too can experience this enlightenment. No cancer necessary,
Speaker 1: says Carly. Carly, thank you and please continue to be healthy.
Speaker 1: And while we're here, big hugs to longtime listener Krista
Speaker 1: Evapado who just went through surgery last week. Okay, onward now,
Speaker 1: the title of this one is pedagogology and pedagogy. Pedagogy,
Speaker 1: what is it pedagogy? Pedagogy? Okay, the title of this
Speaker 1: one is pedagogology, and pedagogy means the method in practice
Speaker 1: of teaching. So theoretically this ology is the study of teaching.
Speaker 1: So learning to teach, to learn to communicate perhaps science,
Speaker 1: So to be a science communicator in sichom to calm
Speaker 1: some sigh, and there is maybe no one better on
Speaker 1: planet Earth to ask than the World Icon of Science TV.
Speaker 1: He graduated with a bachelor's mechanical engineering and worked at
Speaker 1: Boeing and has a zeal for all things scientific. He's
Speaker 1: the author of several books. He hosts several seasons of
Speaker 1: his own show on Netflix, and after wanting to be
Speaker 1: his generation's mister Wizard, he's been communicating science for decades
Speaker 1: and now we all would want to be him. So
Speaker 1: we chat about communicating science, the intersection of policy and conservation,
Speaker 1: the joy of discovery, gender fluidity, TikTok, masks, voting ties, monks, craters,
Speaker 1: and the F word with your hero and my pedagogologist,
Speaker 1: Bill freaking nine.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hi, Hi, greetings, greetings.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you for being.
Speaker 2: Here, well, thank you for having me here.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this interview because there's
Speaker 1: too many questions that I want to ask.
Speaker 2: So start with one of the first ones.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so start with the first. Okay, that's a
Speaker 1: good idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that wasn't really my idea.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to talk to you, and I had
Speaker 1: so much fun being on your podcast. I'm such a
Speaker 1: huge fan obviously, you know that huge chair.
Speaker 2: It's good. I'm a big fan of yours.
Speaker 3: Also.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just going to get right into it. You ready, yes, ma'am, Okay.
Speaker 1: I would like to know what a typical day is
Speaker 1: like for Bill Ny.
Speaker 2: Right now, A typical day is getting up and eating breakfast,
Speaker 2: which usually consists of some stone fruit from nearby grocery
Speaker 2: stores or the farmer's market which is nearby where I
Speaker 2: live here in Los Angeles. And then I get on
Speaker 2: calls like this.
Speaker 3: No, that's what I do.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of zooming that's a brand name, a
Speaker 2: lot of casting of pods. You know, we do Science Rules.
Speaker 2: You've been on Science Rules. We do Science Rules Coronavirus edition,
Speaker 2: and I do a little research for those. And there's
Speaker 2: always a lot of email associated with the Planetary Society.
Speaker 1: So Bill is the CEO of the Planetary Society, which
Speaker 1: is the world's largest and most influential nonprofit space organization.
Speaker 1: They quote introduce people to the wonders of the cosmos,
Speaker 1: bridging the gap between the scientific community and the general public,
Speaker 1: to inspire and educate people from all walks of life,
Speaker 1: and make voices heard in government and affect real change
Speaker 1: in support of space exploration. Nonprofit badassery, what's happening.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of activity for me associated with that.
Speaker 2: Then at the end of the day, after a lot
Speaker 2: of often apples and peanut butter for lunch. Then I
Speaker 2: go for either a long walk of about four and
Speaker 2: a half miles or I ride my bike for about
Speaker 2: what is it, fifteen kilometers? So what is that some
Speaker 2: number in there ten milesthing like.
Speaker 1: That fifteen kilometers is nine point three miles, which is
Speaker 1: a lot of miles.
Speaker 2: And I go up the big hill, the hill here
Speaker 2: that separates Hollywood proper from like the valley, and I
Speaker 2: like totally live in the valley. And I found that
Speaker 2: doing these two activities every other day is good for
Speaker 2: the hips and knees.
Speaker 1: Oh, how about for ideas? Do you get a lot
Speaker 1: of ideas when you're cycling or when you're physically occupied?
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, you know this this idea of mindfulness where
Speaker 2: you're supposed to think about nothing. Oh would but that
Speaker 2: I could I think about things all the time? Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I hearkened to the story of this guy named
Speaker 2: William Friedman who was one of the code breakers in
Speaker 2: World War Two, and he says he encouraged the people
Speaker 2: that he worked with to just think about in the background.
Speaker 2: You're working on the problem all the time. You're always
Speaker 2: working on the problem. So yes, I'm always thinking about things.
Speaker 3: Ali, I don't doubt it.
Speaker 2: And right now, man, we are I'm in California. Everything
Speaker 2: is on fire, no sign of rain to come, the
Speaker 2: hurricanes hitting the Gulf of Mexico. In the US. We
Speaker 2: have got climate change big time. Yes.
Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder in all of this do you
Speaker 1: ever subscribe to any theories of this as one of
Speaker 1: many universes or just a simulation gone bad?
Speaker 3: Is that just giving out that it's.
Speaker 2: A similar gone bad is completely unreasonable to me? And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. Everybody. This gets back to our
Speaker 2: good friend Ocham's razor William of Akham, pronouncing it as
Speaker 2: best I can goes. You know, if you think about it,
Speaker 2: the simplest explanation for a phenomenon is probably the best.
Speaker 1: William of Auckham was a friar from Akham, Surrey in
Speaker 1: England in the late twelve hundreds, and I just look
Speaker 1: that up today. I always pictured Okham to look like
Speaker 1: some sort of Trent Reznor goblin holding a razor blade
Speaker 1: with his teeth.
Speaker 4: But no, he's just a.
Speaker 1: Monk who's like, hey, man, chill out. Simple answer is
Speaker 1: probably the deal. And then like went back to eating
Speaker 1: some unsalted porridge.
Speaker 2: So one explanation would be that we live. We're all
Speaker 2: in a giant video game, and our memories are implanted
Speaker 2: by the galactic over director, the god of the god
Speaker 2: of the video game, and everything that we do is
Speaker 2: prescribed by the rules of the video game game. And
Speaker 2: somebody's in charge. And what you think is reality is
Speaker 2: not reality because you're part of it. That's one explanation.
Speaker 2: Another explanation is we're not in a video game. This
Speaker 2: is actually the universe, and here we are. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just a lot more reasonable to me now. Whether or
Speaker 2: not there are other universes, there's a fabulous question. But
Speaker 2: apparently the only reason or the best reason, or the
Speaker 2: most compelling reason that there might be other universes multi
Speaker 2: verses is there's nothing to exclude that possibility. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: we'll see or maybe it will be shown that you
Speaker 2: can never see that it's unknowable. Okay, all right, I'm
Speaker 2: still going to have coffee in the morning.
Speaker 1: And we still have to fix this big ball on
Speaker 1: fire that we live on.
Speaker 2: Yes, but these are worthy questions, you know, this thing.
Speaker 2: The two things that get us all all the time.
Speaker 2: Are are we alone in the universe? Are we the
Speaker 2: only sentient? Or whatever you call us contemplating our fate
Speaker 2: beings and where do we all come from? Where do
Speaker 2: we all get here? And I think the video game
Speaker 2: hypothesis is somebody trying to come up with how did
Speaker 2: we all get here? What is going on? And it
Speaker 2: is a fundamental and amazing question. I mean, I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: but I sure want to find out. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is you know, the premise in science everybody, and I
Speaker 2: know we have questions to get to Ali, I can't wait.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, But the premise of the bit, as
Speaker 2: we say in comedy writing and science, is the premise
Speaker 2: is that the universe is knowable, that the cosmos is knowable,
Speaker 2: and that we can even ask that question is amazing.
Speaker 2: It fills me with reverence every day that we are
Speaker 2: made of the dust of stars and so we are
Speaker 2: at least one of the ways that the universe knows
Speaker 2: that it exists. Yeah, we are one of the ways
Speaker 2: the universe knows itself. That's really it's profound. People.
Speaker 1: Do you ever find that kind of existential rooting in
Speaker 1: science itself?
Speaker 2: Well, you've been on the Science Rules podcast I have.
Speaker 1: It's a great one.
Speaker 2: And I mentioned this as of course to promote my podcast,
Speaker 2: but also as a witness. If you ask Corey Powell,
Speaker 2: my co host, what's my favorite thing? And right now
Speaker 2: I'm mechanical engineer. Physics was how That's how I got here.
Speaker 2: But my favorite thing these days is evolution. Evolution explains
Speaker 2: is how we understand all of biology, all of life
Speaker 2: science is in the context or the lens of evolution.
Speaker 1: For more on evolution and some hot Charles Darwin gossip,
Speaker 1: see the Evolutionary Biology episode if you like.
Speaker 2: And So I think about science every day, all the time,
Speaker 2: and where did we all come from? And are we
Speaker 2: alone in the universe? I think about that all the time.
Speaker 1: On the topic of evolution, let's talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about yours. You are kind of proof that one's mutations
Speaker 1: are their superpower in that you are someone who's a
Speaker 1: mechanical engineer who is also gifted in comedy, and a
Speaker 1: lot of times people probably find themselves in one bucket
Speaker 1: or the other, but you were a bit of both
Speaker 1: and that kind of led to how you used your voice.
Speaker 1: Did you ever struggle with wanting to be a performer
Speaker 1: versus wanting to be an engineer? What was that like
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 2: Okay, let me just say, are you kidding? Yes, I struggled.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, did I struggle? So you guys, and
Speaker 2: I let me also back up one little thing. You know,
Speaker 2: you use the term gifted. I'm always concerned about the
Speaker 2: term gifted. I'm always concerned about the term talent. Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean to me, Fred Astaire, you know talent. Okay,
Speaker 2: Bill Ny talent. I'm not sure you kind of lost
Speaker 2: me there, don't be so honest, but along this line, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I what started it was everyone, you could say.
Speaker 2: I was a senior in college and the guy who
Speaker 2: had been my freshman roommate, Dave Lax. When we see
Speaker 2: each others, see each other at reunions, it's always great.
Speaker 2: Hey Dave, I love you, man, I love you. But
Speaker 2: he had gone into material science. I went in mechanical engineering.
Speaker 2: It's just like, you got to come see this. So
Speaker 2: I went to his house. They had this extraordinary technology
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy seven, they had cable television. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: so I saw Steve Martin at the boarding House and
Speaker 2: boarding House as a nightclub in San Francisco, and he goes, look,
Speaker 2: this guy is just like you look at this His
Speaker 2: sense of humor is just like yours. Look at this guy, Hey,
Speaker 2: this guy. So then a year later, one of the
Speaker 2: Brothers Records sponsored the Steve Martin Lookalike Contest, and a different,
Speaker 2: completely different set of friends in a whole nother city
Speaker 2: Seattle pressured me to enter this contest, and I did,
Speaker 2: and I won. I mean due respect, I won. I
Speaker 2: did not win the national one. I did not advance
Speaker 2: beyond Seattle. The guy who won could play the banjo,
Speaker 2: and I guess objectively kind of looked like Steve Martin.
Speaker 2: But this led to people wanting me to be Steve
Speaker 2: Martin at parties because you're not of a certain age.
Speaker 2: But it is my claim that when Steve Martin released
Speaker 2: these first two albums, the whole world was laughing with him.
Speaker 2: The whole world was on board with his just people
Speaker 2: would call it absurd artist or just his point of view,
Speaker 2: which was deep irony. Anyway, then you start doing stand
Speaker 2: up comedy, start trying to do stand up comedy, you know,
Speaker 2: you start trying to write your own material. Meanwhile, I
Speaker 2: was working as an engineer. And then because everybody was
Speaker 2: talking about comedy early on, this is before Seinfeld, before
Speaker 2: Everybody Loves Raymond. Before all that, the head of the
Speaker 2: NBC affiliate station in Seattle, Chuck Jones, I guess was
Speaker 2: his real name, wanted to have a comedy show. So
Speaker 2: I had met these guys at comedy clubs over the
Speaker 2: couple years there, and I got invited to do a bit,
Speaker 2: and then one thing led to another and we had
Speaker 2: to fill six minutes, which is quite a while in
Speaker 2: yeah vision, And so ros Schaeffer, who's still a good
Speaker 2: friend of mine, said why don't you you could do
Speaker 2: that science stuff you're always talking about. So I did
Speaker 2: the household uses of nitrogen. I was Bill Ny, the
Speaker 2: science Guy, and was Ross who just blurted out Bill
Speaker 2: Ny the science Guy in a meeting, ah, and was
Speaker 2: you know. It was well received, so that there was
Speaker 2: pressure to do a science guy bid every few weeks,
Speaker 2: and I started doing it out doing it as kind
Speaker 2: of a magic thing, that is to say, not everything
Speaker 2: you see maybe was real. But then it occurred to
Speaker 2: me how cool it would be just to make it
Speaker 2: all real.
Speaker 1: Bill says that during the mid nineteen eighties, the Reagan
Speaker 1: administration opted to remove and not replace President Carter's solar panels,
Speaker 1: which was a megabummer to many environmentalists, and they also
Speaker 1: ended the push to have us convert to the metric system,
Speaker 1: which is why I had to ask a search engine
Speaker 1: how many miles fifteen kilometers is and why I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if it's kilometers or kilometers, and so I just
Speaker 1: had to look that up. Kilometers is American and kilometers
Speaker 1: is British. There's the same though, any frickin' whosal. The
Speaker 1: folks who produced the Seattle Today show hired are then
Speaker 1: thirty five year old Buddy Bill in nineteen eighty nine
Speaker 1: to make an educational video for the Washington State Department
Speaker 1: of Ecology and it was called Fabulous Wetlands and it
Speaker 1: was fabulous.
Speaker 2: So what is the wetland anyway? Well, you got land,
Speaker 2: you got water, and not that gobblegame. And that became
Speaker 2: a template for the Science Guy show. And then one
Speaker 2: thing led to another and the Children's Television Act where
Speaker 2: they had to station owners had to have three hours
Speaker 2: of educational television every week. Right, you mean we're going
Speaker 2: to stop our printing press for money? Yeah, we're going
Speaker 2: to stop printing money for three hours every week. I know,
Speaker 2: my goodness. But anyway, that's one thing led to another.
Speaker 2: But as far as quitting my engineering job, Man oh Man,
Speaker 2: I was working part time on a comedy show in
Speaker 2: Seattle that only would go six weeks at a time,
Speaker 2: and then you're unemployed for the next six weeks. You know.
Speaker 2: It was for a guy who was used to having
Speaker 2: a job. You know, I used to wear a tie
Speaker 2: to work, Ali, a straight tie.
Speaker 1: I can't help but imagine Bill wearing a straight tie
Speaker 1: to his day job and then coming home and changing
Speaker 1: into a bow tie like mister Rogers to teach science,
Speaker 1: or ducking into a phone booth like Clark Kent, changing
Speaker 1: only his tie but emerging clearly our nation science superman.
Speaker 2: I'll just tell you also, Ali, in those days working
Speaker 2: Boeing and then Sunstrand when I wore a tie, I
Speaker 2: also is just my thing. I also wore a shirt
Speaker 2: I didn't want to throw. I didn't want to scare anyone,
Speaker 2: you know. So anyway, quitting my job October third, nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty six was a real stopping and thinking. I mean,
Speaker 2: I had I set aside my end of the world money,
Speaker 2: which was five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: It was, it was enough to pay I had a mortgage.
Speaker 2: I had a condo Condinium. I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I was a young single guy in a condo, so
Speaker 2: I having a Volkswagen Bug. But you know, even then
Speaker 2: the world was changing so fast, and I realized if
Speaker 2: I left engineering for a year, I would be not unhireable,
Speaker 2: but it would be quite difficult for me to get
Speaker 2: back in it. Yeah, so you asked, was it an
Speaker 2: agonizing decision? But I was a young guy. People much
Speaker 2: they much more regret what they don't do than what
Speaker 2: they do. Yes, I mean, once in a while there's
Speaker 2: you know, problems, but most of the time we regret
Speaker 2: what we didn't do. So I quit my job and
Speaker 2: tried it, and then for another six years I worked
Speaker 2: part time as an engineer, but in traditionally it is
Speaker 2: called a contract engineer. That was a long answer to
Speaker 2: one of your questions. Was I agonized, of course?
Speaker 1: But you also did you not get a little bit
Speaker 1: of advice from it's some guy named Carl.
Speaker 2: Oh, Carl Sagan? Yes, okay, okay, some guy. So what
Speaker 2: happened everybody?
Speaker 1: Was?
Speaker 2: First of all, I was in high school in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. And a guy who had graduated two years
Speaker 2: ahead of me, who had the same physics teacher said,
Speaker 2: you know, Bill, you ought to apply to Cornell. You're
Speaker 2: the kind of guy that would fit in at Cornell University.
Speaker 2: And you know, we love the word skepticism. Ali, but
Speaker 2: I was very skeptical of this claim, but nevertheless I applied.
Speaker 2: I had never visited the Cornell campus. I just in football,
Speaker 2: if you're familiar with I threw a hail Mary Pass.
Speaker 2: I typed the application on a typewriter, a manual typewriter,
Speaker 2: and I got in. I'd still to this day and amazed.
Speaker 2: The people I went to college with are so freaking smart.
Speaker 1: So yes, Bill got in and took some pretty cool classes.
Speaker 2: As a senior, I took one class from Carl Sagan,
Speaker 2: who was at Cornell, and it changed my life. It
Speaker 2: really did. So. The guy was so inspiring. He was
Speaker 2: all that as the kids say.
Speaker 1: So years after he graduated, Bill was making a Sunday
Speaker 1: morning educational TV show called Bill's Basement, and he got
Speaker 1: back in touch with his former Cornell instructor to ask
Speaker 1: a psicon question.
Speaker 2: I asked Carl Sagan about this, and he says, when
Speaker 2: you're doing these things, Bill, it sounds like an he
Speaker 2: called me, Bill sounds like a fine thing. But this
Speaker 2: is at my tenth college reunion, my tenth reunion, I
Speaker 2: had written a paper letter some of you may know
Speaker 2: this technology sounds like this and this is where you
Speaker 2: can store its plant based information story. And I wrote
Speaker 2: him all that are and his assistant arranged for me
Speaker 2: to meet with him for five minutes, and I told
Speaker 2: him about this thing called Bill. He says, focus on
Speaker 2: pure science. He said, kids resonate to pure science. That
Speaker 2: was a verb he used, and so I did. That
Speaker 2: was just outstanding advice and is one sentence out of
Speaker 2: the all the sentences I've heard over my entire life,
Speaker 2: and it was really cool advice. So if you watch
Speaker 2: the Science Guy show, it's all about pure science. Even
Speaker 2: the computer show is about the science or the mathematics
Speaker 2: or the fundamentals of computing rather than the state of
Speaker 2: that art in nineteen ninety seven or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: So Bill is still in touch with and Sagan and
Speaker 1: the Sagan kiddos were fans of Bill Ny the Science Guy.
Speaker 1: He still hangs out and has a beer and shoots
Speaker 1: the shit about our place and the cosmos with them,
Speaker 1: because that is the kind of casual redness that Bill
Speaker 1: Ny brings to the tape.
Speaker 2: All these remarkable circumstances have led me to where I am.
Speaker 2: And you know, each of these things is some crazy
Speaker 2: turning point in your life. Like you or you're doing
Speaker 2: an ologies podcast, You're crazy, You're a wild who knew?
Speaker 1: Who knew? I definitely think that you should take the risks.
Speaker 3: Cot bangs text your crash.
Speaker 1: This is likely not a simulation. Have you ever been
Speaker 1: part of any studies where they've tried to figure out
Speaker 1: generationally what generation gives a bigger shit about science and
Speaker 1: if it's related to their watching Bill Neida Science guy, Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like millennials care, maybe an older generation doesn't.
Speaker 1: If they had had a better Bill Nia Science Guide,
Speaker 1: do you think we would have an easier time with
Speaker 1: policy that would protect the earth?
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're about to see a fantastic turning point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to your point. Not to make you all jealous, but
Speaker 2: I was at the foot doctor.
Speaker 3: Whoa exactly Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Back in the day when you could walk around, I
Speaker 2: was in Penn Station in New York City and this
Speaker 2: woman with a giant piece of luggage ran over my foot.
Speaker 2: Oh now, why didn't you get out of the way?
Speaker 2: Bill yeah. Well, so anyway, the toe is broken and
Speaker 2: crooked and all these exciting things. So anyway, I was
Speaker 2: in the doctor's office and he said, now this guy
Speaker 2: was my age, this doctor singer. He said, you wait here,
Speaker 2: and he brought in five people who work in his
Speaker 2: office and they're you know, young people, millennials who all
Speaker 2: watched The Science Guy Show. And they all said, the
Speaker 2: reason we're physicians and nurses is because we watched The
Speaker 2: Science Guy Show. I got choked up. I went, wow,
Speaker 2: you guys, you know, I mean, we made the show
Speaker 2: in a brick warehouse in Seattle. It's still there. And
Speaker 2: to have it stand a test of twenty seven years
Speaker 2: of time, it's really surprising and wonderful. So I believe
Speaker 2: with these people who are in their twenties and early
Speaker 2: thirties when they are running the show people like you, Ali,
Speaker 2: things are going to get change. Things are going to
Speaker 2: change big time. And I remind us all in the
Speaker 2: US Constitution, Article one, Section eight, clause eight refers to
Speaker 2: the progress of science and useful arts. That's your job
Speaker 2: as a member of Congress is to promote the progress
Speaker 2: of science and useful arts.
Speaker 1: So this is the patent and copyright clause, which states
Speaker 1: that the Congress shall have power to promote the progress
Speaker 1: of science and useful arts by securing, for limited times
Speaker 1: to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective
Speaker 1: writings and discoveries. End quote. Now for more on the
Speaker 1: US Constitution, including hearing it read word for word in
Speaker 1: its entirety with asides, you can see the Noomology episodes
Speaker 1: with us SA see law Professor Fertina Tolsen, who sheds
Speaker 1: so much light on this ancient foundation of our country.
Speaker 2: And that's in there because the people who wrote the Constitution,
Speaker 2: say what you will about their other activities, they realized
Speaker 2: how important science is to the success or to your economy,
Speaker 2: to want to your country's economy. So I think you
Speaker 2: all are going to change the world.
Speaker 1: Well, Bill Night has already changed the world. Is it
Speaker 1: weird for you to be, by the way, an archetype.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to flatter you, I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1: I see so many Twitter buyers that are like, I'm
Speaker 1: the next Bill Night, I want to be the next
Speaker 1: Bill nine, I want to be Bill Ny.
Speaker 3: Is it ever weird for you to be like I'm
Speaker 3: the Bill Ni, I'm a Bill it's always weird.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, everybody, if you want to be
Speaker 2: the next Bill Nye, please do it. I'm of a
Speaker 2: certain age, you know. I jumped off of buildings onto
Speaker 2: air bags, I parachuted out of planes. I did bungee
Speaker 2: jumping to I got floaters in my eyes because of
Speaker 2: the G force is when you descelerate. Okay, And I
Speaker 2: memorized all those lines, I wrote most of them, and
Speaker 2: the show almost killed me. But it was, you know,
Speaker 2: still very very proud of it. Put my heart and
Speaker 2: soul into it. But to all the Bill Nys of
Speaker 2: the future, just remember that part of what made the
Speaker 2: Bill ni Show successful was the crew. Everybody on the
Speaker 2: crew had a terrific sense of humor. It's one thing
Speaker 2: to be enthusiastic and celebrate snot or barf or whatever
Speaker 2: wonderful things we all might consider gross, or to celebrate
Speaker 2: being a nerd and soldering and welding and using a
Speaker 2: microscope and putting a cover slip on a slide without
Speaker 2: cracking it. Those are all great things. But just make
Speaker 2: sure that or consider or embrace the idea that you
Speaker 2: also want it to be funny.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was going to ask about that about communicating
Speaker 1: science because I think that I don't know what ology
Speaker 1: this is going to be. By the way, I haven't
Speaker 1: figured that out yet. You got any suggestions, Well, pedagogy, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a good one.
Speaker 2: Is that is that an ology? Pedic pedagological, pedagogical, pedagological,
Speaker 2: pedal good thing stuff.
Speaker 1: Ge Survey says it is indeed a word, so pedagogo
Speaker 1: logical like pre length breeches and smallpox scars. This word
Speaker 1: appeared more in the late eighteen hundreds, but it does exist.
Speaker 1: So we're going with it. In terms of being a
Speaker 1: science communicator, if you could give someone really good advice
Speaker 1: about calming sigh, would it be to try to find
Speaker 1: the humor in things relatable? What do you think?
Speaker 2: Well? The biggest what I tell everybody is try it
Speaker 2: is two things is come up with your learning objectives.
Speaker 2: Now I am not a trained as a profession educator.
Speaker 2: I have not been hired by a United States state
Speaker 2: or commonwealth to teach professionally. But learning objective is a
Speaker 2: technical term in education that means the thing you're going
Speaker 2: to get across, and this takes discipline. Talk about dinosaurs,
Speaker 2: you know, everybody dinosaurs in space? We all love dinosaurs
Speaker 2: in space, and people say they don't love dinosaurs in space.
Speaker 2: They are lying to your face. They're lying to your face.
Speaker 2: And so, by the way, it was in my lifetime
Speaker 2: that the connection between space and dinosaurs was discovered.
Speaker 3: I can't isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2: It's if it doesn't freak you out. I don't know,
Speaker 2: what does I know.
Speaker 1: We're such babies on this planet. There were such tiny, tiny,
Speaker 1: young little babies not knowing what is going on at all.
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, Ali and I will not
Speaker 2: lose my train of thought. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: the best idea anybody had was dinosaurs had small brains,
Speaker 2: so the mammals took all their food and the dinosaurs died.
Speaker 2: And Missus McGonagall my second second grade teachers, like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to read this book to you all, but
Speaker 2: this is nothing. Come on, the dinosaurs. Giant Trontosaurus is
Speaker 2: like getting outwitted by a mouse maybe, I mean maybe anyway,
Speaker 2: So in my lifetime, I was out paying taxes. I
Speaker 2: was a grown up. Discovery of the asteroid that almost
Speaker 2: certainly finished off the ancient dinosaur sixty six million years
Speaker 2: ago was discovered it's really something ps.
Speaker 1: This crater is on the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico, and
Speaker 1: we didn't know about it until the nineteen seventies. The
Speaker 1: movie Jaws had been out for three years before we
Speaker 1: figured out definitively where the rock that ended the dinos hit.
Speaker 1: There are sex pistols albums older than this knowledge.
Speaker 2: So back to the learning objective. So in the case
Speaker 2: of dinosaurs, they're so ancient dinosaurs, there's so much you
Speaker 2: can talk about. Birds. Are dinosaurs well cool? Dinosaurs had
Speaker 2: feathers or not. Dinosaur fossils are found here, they're not
Speaker 2: found here. Well, we thought they'd find we'd find them here,
Speaker 2: and we found them all this sort of thing. But
Speaker 2: dinosaurs and people did not live at the same time.
Speaker 2: That's kind of a gigantic idea. We know that dinosaurs
Speaker 2: lived because we found their fossil bones. That's it. We
Speaker 2: know they lived. And if you can get those two
Speaker 2: things across in twenty eight minutes, you're doing something. So
Speaker 2: I really encourage everybody to think about what in education
Speaker 2: or communication is what you want to get across, and
Speaker 2: we all do it. Ali we bury the lead, We
Speaker 2: start thinking out loud and you don't get to the
Speaker 2: point for a couple sentences. Then the other thing that's
Speaker 2: really important in my opinion, and as you know, my
Speaker 2: opinion's correct, is what I call the discipline in vocabulary.
Speaker 2: Div If you introduce words that the listener or viewer
Speaker 2: doesn't know, you're going to lose them. And this is
Speaker 2: very well documented, and don't come running to me. And
Speaker 2: then the other thing along this line. You don't want
Speaker 2: to introduce a word and then explain it. You want
Speaker 2: to have the explanation before the word. Oh, and you
Speaker 2: know we all do it. We all define the word
Speaker 2: with the word.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know what's echolocation? Well, what do you mean? Echolocation
Speaker 2: is when you echo locate? Oh right, It's really easy
Speaker 2: to fall into that trap. So when you go to
Speaker 2: write these things or create them or produce them, just
Speaker 2: I really encourage everybody learning objectives, figure out what you're
Speaker 2: going to get across, and be disciplined in the words
Speaker 2: you use to introduce words and technical terms.
Speaker 1: Were you a kid that liked science or do you think.
Speaker 2: They oh man, yes, oh yes, Now understand everybody. I
Speaker 2: am of a certain age and the Space program was
Speaker 2: the thing. Yeah, I mean this is what was going on.
Speaker 2: I was a little little kid when Sputnik flew, but
Speaker 2: I remember very well the anxiety my parents felt nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty seven when the Ruskies were getting into the ultimate
Speaker 2: high ground. And then when these guys Alan Shepherd, John
Speaker 2: Glenn flew in space and Uri Gageron, you know, they
Speaker 2: hid this truth. But apparently Uri Gagheron was like this
Speaker 2: maniac test pilot, very accomplished guy, could just handle any situation.
Speaker 2: Comes back in after orbiting the Earth, coming back into
Speaker 2: the atmosphere, Well, you know, Yuri, it's not going so well.
Speaker 2: Your retro rocket system, Okay, don't worry about so parachutes
Speaker 2: out of the freaking capsule. He just jumps out and
Speaker 2: parachutes to the Earth and the capsule, I guess landed
Speaker 2: pretty hard. And at that time the Soviet government didn't
Speaker 2: want to tell people, but I mentioned it. It was
Speaker 2: a very exciting time in space exploration. It was just
Speaker 2: all this wild stuff going on, and there was this
Speaker 2: intimate connection between the Cold War and the civilian Space Agency, NASA,
Speaker 2: National Innings and Space Administration. So I was brought up
Speaker 2: with that. And you know, even now people talk about
Speaker 2: the World's Fair in nineteen sixty four sixty five in
Speaker 2: New York City. Well, my family. I grew up in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. In the city limits of Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: And we went there, went to New York. It was astonishing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the future, you know. And almost every
Speaker 2: day when I get on a freeway in Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: back when you went places in cars, right, I remember
Speaker 2: six months ago. Yeah, the freeways were really envisioned at
Speaker 2: that time in the future man and the term was
Speaker 2: man man will travel through roadways in the sky, and
Speaker 2: that turned out to be true. Whether or not it's
Speaker 2: this utopian vision is something else. But these ideas were
Speaker 2: presented to us as kids, and it's just so inspiring
Speaker 2: and amazing and fabulous. We spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: looking things up. You don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 2: I mean, the access to information now is even cooler,
Speaker 2: even cooler. So yes. Furthermore, my mother's father was a chemist.
Speaker 2: He was a professor at Duke University, then Johns Hopkins University.
Speaker 2: Then he got a job. Apparently his most satisfying job
Speaker 2: was a company called Crown, Cork and Seal. Okay, and
Speaker 2: only older listeners would remember when bottle caps had cork
Speaker 2: glued under the metal cap. Anyway, he had the patent
Speaker 2: on that, adhesaid, apparently, So I grew up with science.
Speaker 2: And then if you knew this about my mom, my
Speaker 2: mom was one of the code girls. Yes, and so
Speaker 2: she was I just will say objectively, she was very
Speaker 2: good at puzzles, yes, sossword puzzles and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And so she was recruited by the Navy to do something. Mom,
Speaker 2: what did you do during the war. I can't talk
Speaker 2: about it, my whole life can't talk. And so there
Speaker 2: was a there was an event, and I know not
Speaker 2: everything we talk about makes it into the podcast, but
Speaker 2: there was an event last year, a year ago April,
Speaker 2: at the Library of Congress, celebrating these women, a few
Speaker 2: of whom were still alive. And Gal came up to
Speaker 2: me and said, you know, my mom was with your
Speaker 2: mom in Hawaii. Ah, I said, my mom was never
Speaker 2: in Hawaii. Actually was so after v after the European
Speaker 2: Victory Day, several of these women were taken to Hawaii
Speaker 2: to work to continue work on the JN Japanese Navy codes.
Speaker 2: Jay and twenty five was the famous one. So I
Speaker 2: learned something every day, So anyway that it was really something.
Speaker 2: So I was raised by the way everybody. The Equal
Speaker 2: Rights Amendment has been passed now by thirty eight states
Speaker 2: and commonwealths. We'll see what happens. My mom was a
Speaker 2: very feminine feminist. She marched in at least one of
Speaker 2: the Equal Rights Amendments parades, but I think it was
Speaker 2: she marched in three of them. And my great grandmother,
Speaker 2: whom I never met, marched in the Suffragist Parade in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirteen in Washington. So I go back with this everybody.
Speaker 1: And actually every episode we donate to a cause of
Speaker 1: the ologists choosing.
Speaker 2: Well, we love the Planetary Society.
Speaker 3: Well there you go.
Speaker 2: So everybody. Carl Sagan started the Planetary Society in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty because he and two other guys, Bruce Murray, who
Speaker 2: was the head of the Jet Propulsion Lab during the
Speaker 2: Voyager missions, the famous famous gold record and all that,
Speaker 2: but it's just cool, and Lou Friedman, who was an
Speaker 2: orbital mechanics guy at JPL Jet Propulsion Lab. They felt
Speaker 2: that public interest in space was very high, but government
Speaker 2: support of it was not so high. And that's still
Speaker 2: true when it comes to planetary exploration. I mean we
Speaker 2: just discovered evidence of life on Venus. In the atmosphere
Speaker 2: of Venus. And I've talked all the time, as you know,
Speaker 2: who wouldn't that Venus is like hell. I mean, the
Speaker 2: surface of Venus is hot enough to melt lead. It
Speaker 2: rains sulfuric acid, no way, total way. Yeah, it rains
Speaker 2: sulfuric acid. But the acid doesn't hit the ground. It
Speaker 2: evaporates before it gets the ground because the ground so hot.
Speaker 2: But apparently in the atmosphere, way above the surface, there
Speaker 2: are some temperate temperatures, if I can use that. See,
Speaker 2: that's an example of using the word to define the word.
Speaker 3: Right, there's some you define it with a definition, there's
Speaker 3: some word.
Speaker 2: There's some temperatures that aren't especially too crazy hot to
Speaker 2: dissociate every molecule we associate with life. So maybe maybe
Speaker 2: there are Venusians, aerosol Venusians zooming around or getting winded
Speaker 2: around in the Venusian atmosphere.
Speaker 3: Exciting.
Speaker 2: It really is amazing, ye, And I say all the
Speaker 2: time everybody, if we discover life or evidence of life
Speaker 2: on another world, it will change this world. Yeah, everybody
Speaker 2: will feel differently about being a living thing in the cosmos.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just jaw dropping.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I'm going to bombard you with listener questions,
Speaker 1: Lightning round, lightning round.
Speaker 2: Or just listener questions. Whatever you want to do it
Speaker 2: hit me the ball.
Speaker 1: As we say, it's a lightning round of listener questions.
Speaker 1: Forty three pages of listener questions. So I have organized
Speaker 1: them as best I can and I'm just going to
Speaker 1: start firing them off.
Speaker 2: You ready, I'm so ready.
Speaker 1: Before your questions, patrons. A quick word from sponsors of
Speaker 1: the show who made it possible for us to donate
Speaker 1: to the Planetary Society?
Speaker 3: Mom?
Speaker 5: Why did they call it Scottish cheese?
Speaker 3: Cottage cheese?
Speaker 2: Honey?
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: Did dogs in other countries speak different languages?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think so.
Speaker 1: Well when we get there, well, we've got to fix
Speaker 1: the car first, but there's someone coming to help us.
Speaker 2: Is it the man from Geneva?
Speaker 1: Not Geneva, he's from a Viva.
Speaker 3: Oh there's the van.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: For car insurance with breakdown rescue, it takes a Viva
Speaker 4: visit a Viva Dota e to say fifteen percent acceptance
Speaker 4: criteria terms and conditions apply. Minimum premium of three hundred
Speaker 4: and ten year old fifteen percent discant applies to new
Speaker 4: policies bott online. See Aviva dot i E for details.
Speaker 4: Car insurance is underwritten by Aviva Insurance Ireland dak Aviva
Speaker 4: Direct Arland Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.
Speaker 1: Okay, now on to forty three pages of your questions.
Speaker 1: I said I wasn't a nice Oh, qush, there's so
Speaker 1: many Okay, Liz Rooki, great question. Were you ever scared
Speaker 1: to perform as a science communicator on TV or radio podcast?
Speaker 1: And how did you overcome that or are you still
Speaker 1: working on that?
Speaker 2: If you're not scared, quit doing it, it's saying. And
Speaker 2: the other really good remark Tom bergeron Made You Know
Speaker 2: and Dancing with that guy who hosts Dancing with the
Speaker 2: Stars and hosted he says, take your nervousness and turn
Speaker 2: it into excitement. Ah, it's a theater expression. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot to it. But as Robin Williams said,
Speaker 2: if you stop being nervous, quit doing it. So But
Speaker 2: whether or not I'm scared, that's something else. I know.
Speaker 2: If I'm scared, but I'm always like on this podcast, Ali,
Speaker 2: I don't want to say the wrong thing. Man weoll Man.
Speaker 1: Oh, No, it's like very, very high stakes. I'm a
Speaker 1: real hardball interviewer. Also, you know that Bill Night.
Speaker 2: Oh man, it's just a sweat is pooring?
Speaker 1: Yeah, If you're not crying Boutannas, I haven't done my job.
Speaker 1: Nick Mikosh says, how do we depoliticize science? What are
Speaker 1: the ways not to approach science communication for those who
Speaker 1: are resistant science?
Speaker 2: So you, guys, this is a question. I'm really serious.
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I've struggled with this last twenty years.
Speaker 2: How do you get people who refuse to or seem
Speaker 2: to refuse to acknowledge the facts that we have discovered
Speaker 2: through the process of science. You know, I say all
Speaker 2: the time, I'm a elementary school with a kid who
Speaker 2: at polio. You do not want polio. It wouldn't even
Speaker 2: occur to you not to get vaccinated against polio. And
Speaker 2: so then you show all this evidence that there is
Speaker 2: no connection between vaccines and autism. But Steve, people still
Speaker 2: have this perception. Changing their minds is quite difficult. But
Speaker 2: here's the new thing I'm working on, and that's making
Speaker 2: people aware of this phrase that I have come to embrace,
Speaker 2: the liar's dividend, The liar's dividend. So after the lie
Speaker 2: is out there and lie is hard, after the pseudoscience
Speaker 2: or after the false claim is presented, that's stuck in
Speaker 2: the listener of the viewer's mind, and so you have
Speaker 2: to and it for the liar. It continues to pay dividends.
Speaker 2: These false claims get stuck in people's heads. It's very
Speaker 2: difficult to displace it. However, pointing out to people that
Speaker 2: they're receiving the proceeds from a liar's dividend, it may
Speaker 2: raise awareness and help them overcome it. It's clear that
Speaker 2: the anti science people are completely outnumbered by the regular people.
Speaker 2: So if regular people vote with the environment in mind,
Speaker 2: or with how you should respond to a public health
Speaker 2: crisis in mind, then normal people will win and we
Speaker 2: can move on. Just keep in mind that trying to
Speaker 2: change somebody who's a climate denier or contrarian, trying to
Speaker 2: change his or her mind takes a couple of years.
Speaker 2: It's really difficult.
Speaker 3: Actually.
Speaker 1: Kind of on that note, first time question asker Aaron
Speaker 1: Spencer wants to know what evidence helped you essentially change
Speaker 1: your mind about climate change or was the most impact.
Speaker 1: What's a nice piece of evidence to have in your
Speaker 1: tool belt for those conversations.
Speaker 2: Well, I never was a contrarian about climate change. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now the reason everybody I'm of a certain age.
Speaker 2: And so what happened was people Carl Sagan and another
Speaker 2: guy named Jim Pollock. James Pollack had written a computer program,
Speaker 2: a mathematical model of what would happen if you set
Speaker 2: off all the nuclear weapons in the world on the
Speaker 2: same afternoon, same day, right, And then a couple years later,
Speaker 2: Walter Alvarez and his son discovered this asteroid impact that
Speaker 2: finished off the ancient dinosaurs. And then James Hanson, Jim
Speaker 2: Hanson was studying the planet Venus and realized the significance
Speaker 2: of carbon dioxide in an atmosphere, and so he testified
Speaker 2: in front of Congress in nineteen eighty eight about climate change,
Speaker 2: Global climate change caused by all the carbon oxide put
Speaker 2: in the air by peopleeteen eighty eight. So those three
Speaker 2: things came together for me as a guy reading scientific
Speaker 2: American and science News and just interested in that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. So I was always or always concerned about
Speaker 2: climate change. And then I became a member of the
Speaker 2: Union of Concerned Scientists, which is a very good political
Speaker 2: but not partisan, nonprofit organization that studies things like climate change.
Speaker 2: You know, I was on board with this from the
Speaker 2: get go. But what I say to everybody is scientists
Speaker 2: around the world, and you'll hear ninety seven percent, but
Speaker 2: it's more like ninety nine percent of climate scientists are
Speaker 2: convinced have shown that humans are putting all this carbonoxide
Speaker 2: in the air and that's what's making the world warmer.
Speaker 2: So everybody, how could you see it any other way?
Speaker 2: And then the other striking thing, it's twenty twenty. These
Speaker 2: fires which are ravaging the West, and these hurricanes which
Speaker 2: are stacking up in domino fashion in the Mid Atlantic
Speaker 2: are all predicted by the mathematical models that were written
Speaker 2: originally in the nineteen eighties then really honed in the
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties. And the first hockey stick graph was published
Speaker 2: by Michael Mann and others in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 1: And just a side note, the late climatologist and director
Speaker 1: of the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory, Jerry Mahlman coined this
Speaker 1: hockey stick term and stated in two thousand and four
Speaker 1: that quote global warming is real and it's a phenomenon
Speaker 1: that humans have created. Climate scientists worldwide have understood its
Speaker 1: essence since the so called Charnie Report of the National
Speaker 1: Research Council in nineteen seventy nine. Our burning of fossil fuels, coal, oil,
Speaker 1: and natural gas is the indisputably direct cause of the
Speaker 1: ever increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. This
Speaker 1: added carbon dioxide acts directly to warm the planet. There
Speaker 1: is no scientific controversy about these facts. Again a two
Speaker 1: thousand and four quote from Climatol just during moment. So
Speaker 1: this is neither fresh news nor is it really up
Speaker 1: for bait facts.
Speaker 2: And every time they do an analysis, the hockey stick
Speaker 2: gets more compelling, it gets accurate or an accurate error.
Speaker 2: And so that people are in denial about it is
Speaker 2: just because it's so big. The problem is so whelming
Speaker 2: that it's easier just to tell yourself this couldn't possibly
Speaker 2: be happening, rather than say, well, I guess we should
Speaker 2: get to work on this. And so that's a great question.
Speaker 2: But figuring out how to convince people who are entrenched
Speaker 2: for sort of spiritual reasons is really difficult. But I
Speaker 2: remind us about the word political politics is not inherently bad.
Speaker 2: What's caused trouble. Is might be a better word for
Speaker 2: everybody to think about is partisanship, where if you're on
Speaker 2: board with these other policies of your party, then you
Speaker 2: also are on board with denying climate change. Careful of that,
Speaker 2: everybody political is not partisan. They're closer related but not
Speaker 2: quite the same thing.
Speaker 1: Right, And kind of in that vein, Ruby Johnstone wants
Speaker 1: to know how do you feel about social media and
Speaker 1: the ability to communicate science both real and very fake
Speaker 1: to a broader audience. And I also know you're killing
Speaker 1: it on TikTok any tips.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing on TikTok up, I am cracked if
Speaker 2: I may, I am cracked up. So you guys, you
Speaker 2: know I'm a miserable, hateful person and I hate everything.
Speaker 2: But along with that, I'm generally an optim pretty much
Speaker 2: a crazy optimist. I'm very excited about the future. I
Speaker 2: can't wait to get up every morning and stuff like
Speaker 2: that because of science. But this idea that that you
Speaker 2: have a right to not get vaccinated is just wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it.
Speaker 2: Makes me a little crazy. So I did that TikTok
Speaker 2: video and you know, it's been shown that wearing a
Speaker 2: face covering is very effective in preventing the spread of
Speaker 2: this coronavirus. But apparently the real thing is being in
Speaker 2: enclosed spaces with people who are infected because it goes
Speaker 2: through the air. So anyway, this idea that you have
Speaker 2: a right to not wear a mask is not understanding
Speaker 2: this fundamental idea that I have rights too. You may
Speaker 2: think you have a right to infect me, but I
Speaker 2: would say no, actually no, maybe you don't. And the
Speaker 2: example I give everybody is you pay taxes on the
Speaker 2: whole road, but you don't get to drive on both sides.
Speaker 2: You have to drive on one side at a time,
Speaker 2: and so wear a mask. But convincing people that is
Speaker 2: really difficult. So the reason we want you to wear
Speaker 2: a mask is to protect you, sure, but the main reason.
Speaker 3: We want you to wear a mask is to protect me.
Speaker 1: Okay, next question, first time question asker by someone of
Speaker 1: the name Rachel Bloom. You may know her Emmy.
Speaker 3: Oh really, yes, Emmy's.
Speaker 2: Great ward winning that's really her real name.
Speaker 3: Yes, her real name.
Speaker 1: She is a listener of ologies. She's an idol of mine.
Speaker 3: Because I can.
Speaker 1: And post pictures of your deck on the internet.
Speaker 2: Just f y.
Speaker 1: This is the Rachel Bloom of the Emmy winning CW
Speaker 1: show Crazy Ex Girlfriend. And as long as we're talking
Speaker 1: about her, her book I Want to Be Where the
Speaker 1: Normal People Are is due out on November seventeenth, and
Speaker 1: you can pre order it now, and I hear that
Speaker 1: it is hilarious. I'm going to add a link to
Speaker 1: it at ali Ward dot com slash ology slash Bill Nye.
Speaker 1: And yes, she is a fellow ologite, and she has
Speaker 1: a question for Bill. She wants to know how has
Speaker 1: been a science icon for all ages impacted you as
Speaker 1: a person. Also, this is totally awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Rachel. How is it? I don't know. Here's
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what. Television and two very about the
Speaker 2: same extent. Podcasts are intimate. Television is intimate the guy there.
Speaker 2: As the saying goes, you don't hate anyone more than
Speaker 2: you hate someone on television, and so the same is
Speaker 2: true in a much perhaps much more important example. If
Speaker 2: you don't like the baseball announcer, you just hate the guy.
Speaker 2: It's like this deep thing because he's just in your ear,
Speaker 2: he's in your face, whatever it is in the case
Speaker 2: of television. So when it comes to Bill Nye and
Speaker 2: the Science Guy Show and all that, you can either
Speaker 2: take my word for it or ask anybody I've worked with.
Speaker 2: Is what you see is what you get, man. I mean,
Speaker 2: I love science. I think it's the coolest thing ever.
Speaker 2: And what I still love about television and what I
Speaker 2: love about the podcast Alley, it's still handmade. Even though
Speaker 2: we're using this extraordinary technology converting pressure waves in the
Speaker 2: air into electronics and putting them back in the air
Speaker 2: around the world electronically. Even though we're doing that, it's
Speaker 2: still a conversation between you and me, between you and
Speaker 2: Rachel Bloom and me and I just love that. And
Speaker 2: when we did the show, Rachel Bloom was on the
Speaker 2: Saves World show. When we did that show, it was
Speaker 2: I just tell everybody, the crew, everybody's there trying to
Speaker 2: do the same thing. It's still this handmade product. And
Speaker 2: that's what I think appeals to people. And so when
Speaker 2: you watch the Science Guy show, I'm talking to you, listener, viewer,
Speaker 2: You're the person I'm trying to get through to. I
Speaker 2: really care about every viewer. When I'm talking to the lens,
Speaker 2: I'm talking to one person. I'm trying to convince one person.
Speaker 2: So I love you out there, Rachel. I love you man,
Speaker 2: well man.
Speaker 1: A few more listener questions.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I got time?
Speaker 1: Okay, good Murray Hancock's, Julie Bear Mark, Achi, Liz Rookey,
Speaker 1: Catherine Gilbert, Celia Lavonte, and Casey Hanber want to know
Speaker 1: is it true that the bow ties maketh the man?
Speaker 1: And do you have a favorite boat?
Speaker 2: I be honest, So don't tell me to be honest.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you to be honest. I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to accept lies.
Speaker 2: So people have asked me about the bow ties many times,
Speaker 2: and I have about five hundred, okay, and so picking
Speaker 2: a favorite is quite difficult because you know, it depends
Speaker 2: on your mood, depends what else you're wearing. It depends
Speaker 2: on the expectation of the viewer. Okay, where you're going
Speaker 2: to be. You know, if you go to somebody else's wedding,
Speaker 2: you don't want to show up looking, you know, sharper
Speaker 2: than the groom. That's true, although of course for me
Speaker 2: it's hard write a challenge. No, it's a joke. Everybody
Speaker 2: that's ironing. But with that said, my grandfather owned a tie.
Speaker 2: So my grandmother was you know, people talk about immigrants.
Speaker 2: My grandmother was French. She was a war bride. She
Speaker 2: married a US Army captain after the First World War,
Speaker 2: but she would go back to France to see her
Speaker 2: sisters and hang out. And she brought this one tie
Speaker 2: back that is just so beautiful. It's dark blue silk,
Speaker 2: and it's two kinds of silk, and there's a stripe
Speaker 2: of one kind of silk going through the middle of
Speaker 2: the other kind of silk, and it just makes the
Speaker 2: most beautiful knot. And it's very narrow and it has
Speaker 2: arrow points as they're called, or diamond points that the
Speaker 2: ends of the tie are diagonal, not straight. I only
Speaker 2: wear that on very special occasion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, where if you worn it?
Speaker 2: If I'm a commencement speaker, I was at my mother's
Speaker 2: alma mater, Goucher College, where she was recruited by the Navy.
Speaker 2: I wore it there. And I also, as is my pause,
Speaker 2: I also wore a shirt.
Speaker 1: It was sleeveless, though, right you get the sleeves tailored off.
Speaker 2: Actually, everybody, I'm a fan of the short sleeve shirt.
Speaker 3: So we have a whole.
Speaker 2: Thing right now where everybody running an air conditioner in southern
Speaker 2: California led to these brownouts. Yes, air conditioning takes all
Speaker 2: this electricity. Well, there's a tradition in Japan right now
Speaker 2: called cool biz.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: You know, they have a lot of Ramaji. They have
Speaker 2: a lot of English words going on in Japan. So
Speaker 2: guys wear short sleeve shirts. That's like this business thing.
Speaker 2: Embrace it, everybody, embrace it. Short sleeve shirt.
Speaker 3: Show your guns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. See Ali gets Ali cuts through.
Speaker 2: Get it?
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple more because I thought Megan McLean asked
Speaker 1: a great one that had nothing to do with anything,
Speaker 1: And I want to ask it, what's the weirdest thing
Speaker 1: you've ever eaten?
Speaker 2: I guess calf brains. What was the occasion I got
Speaker 2: invited to a restaurant with friend, a woman I used
Speaker 2: to know, I used to date. His father had spent
Speaker 2: time in the Middle East, I guess North Africa, Morocco
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and he'd eaten this dish many times
Speaker 2: and he took us to a Moroccan restaurant and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's quite rich, it's fatty. Hence the expression fat head
Speaker 2: is a compliment. Well, but I don't do that anymore,
Speaker 2: you guys, I wouldn't be surprised. As time goes on,
Speaker 2: I've become a vegetarian. Yeah, you know, I feel like
Speaker 2: I may eat fish. I eat a lot fish. I
Speaker 2: don't like to eat mammals. Yeah, you know, birds are dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. I understand that I'm heading that way,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Know we have questions to take ali. But humans are
Speaker 2: now running the planet. This was not our idea. You know,
Speaker 2: we all, I think all of us grew up with
Speaker 2: the idea that there's the outdoors and nature and organic
Speaker 2: or natural ecosystems, and then there's us. There's cities and
Speaker 2: urban and even you know, every car commercial features you
Speaker 2: driving through deserts or through swamps or some amazing thing
Speaker 2: that you usually don't do with a car. But here's
Speaker 2: the thing. We ended up in charge of the earth now.
Speaker 2: So we have to manage the deer population, the wolf population,
Speaker 2: bobcat population. I'm not kidding. Humans are now in charge.
Speaker 2: We have to manage the fresh water, we have to
Speaker 2: manage the oceans, and we have to manage the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: This is not something everybody who listens to ologies probably
Speaker 2: planned to do with his or her life. But now,
Speaker 2: as taxpayers and voters, we've all got to embrace the
Speaker 2: idea that we are running the show. When I was
Speaker 2: a kid, there were fewer than three billion people, and
Speaker 2: my grandparents were raising my dad, they were about one
Speaker 2: and a half billion.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Now there's seven point almost seven point eight billion people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and there's going to be nine and probably ten billion people.
Speaker 2: And so even though the rate of growth is slowing,
Speaker 2: it's still growing the human population. So we have such
Speaker 2: an effect on the earth that we have to take charge.
Speaker 2: So go out there and take charge, you all.
Speaker 1: We have to. Actually, I wanted to ask lad Balthari
Speaker 1: had a great question about how did you become the
Speaker 1: kid guy? And you've had some very memorable recent appearances,
Speaker 1: dropping f bombs, talking like a heartfelt heyt parents are weird,
Speaker 1: uncles babysitting just cover the kid's ears or prepared to
Speaker 1: shrug at them.
Speaker 2: By the end of this century, if the missions keep rising,
Speaker 2: the average temperature on Earth could go up another four
Speaker 2: to eight degrees. What I'm saying is the planet's on
Speaker 2: fucking fire. That was heartfelt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is heartfelt.
Speaker 1: I mean, I let whatever language fly on this podcast.
Speaker 1: But did you find that that was a transition from
Speaker 1: talking to kids to talking to kids after they grew up.
Speaker 1: Since you've been in the game for a while.
Speaker 2: I guess so. And this gets back to discipline and vocabulary.
Speaker 2: So dropping the F bomb on last week tonight it
Speaker 2: was just huge because I feel that way. You get
Speaker 2: so angry. It's so angry with with andy science, climate deniers.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy making you know why the sky is blue?
Speaker 2: No it isn't really, I think, really we can't we
Speaker 2: agree on that anyway. So climate deniers make me crazy.
Speaker 2: And that bit on last week tonight was heartfelt. But
Speaker 2: along that line, if you look at the Science Guy
Speaker 2: show about atmosphere, about climate, about pressure, about I'm thinking
Speaker 2: out about extreme weather storms, we have bits about climate change.
Speaker 2: And in the nineteen nineties, there was discipline and I'm
Speaker 2: not kidding, not trying to scare the kids, there was discipline.
Speaker 2: I used expressions like things could get weird. We're going
Speaker 2: to have to keep an eye on this. This is
Speaker 2: who knows the future. This is going to be a
Speaker 2: very important idea stuff like that. So yes, of course,
Speaker 2: or yes, I do change the approach based on the audience,
Speaker 2: But both manifestations of me are authentic. That that's my claim.
Speaker 2: That's my claim for you to value it. When I
Speaker 2: was talking to kids on the kids show, I really
Speaker 2: mean it. When I'm talking to adults on a comedy show,
Speaker 2: I also really mean it. It's manifestations of the same
Speaker 2: bill nine.
Speaker 1: And that's part of comedy too, is reading the room
Speaker 1: and being able to morph your delivery based on what.
Speaker 2: Yes, cras assess what you hope will work right.
Speaker 3: Maria Hancock's please Marie hit.
Speaker 1: Me okay, Maria hancocks vityepong want to know? Have you
Speaker 1: ever gotten your own theme song? Stuck in your head?
Speaker 2: I love the theme song.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 2: It's really good. It's written by a guy named Mike
Speaker 2: Green who has a production company thirty eight Fresh in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, and he's just a cool guy and he
Speaker 2: came up with that. That's his wife's voice, no inert. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was wondering, okay, yeah, So I just thank the
Speaker 2: guy every day. He just did a great thing. Good.
Speaker 2: But everybody one note to importantly note for your notation.
Speaker 2: That's important. I don't sing the song. People ask me
Speaker 2: to sing the song. No, no, somebody else. That's the
Speaker 2: whole idea. Somebody else is singing the song like Gilligan's
Speaker 2: Island Gilligan doesn't.
Speaker 3: Sing a song.
Speaker 2: Think we may be an older reference. There's one kind
Speaker 2: of cool exception to that, though, and that was the
Speaker 2: show Fraser Kelsey Grammer sang the song really Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: But the guy on the TV, the gal on the TV,
Speaker 2: doesn't sing the song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's somebody else, of course, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Last questions, I always ask what's the shittiest part about
Speaker 1: your job when you hate the most? What's the most petty,
Speaker 1: annoying or huge thing you hate about being Bill Nan
Speaker 1: the science Guy?
Speaker 2: Well that my genius is unrecognized.
Speaker 3: You only have nineteen Emmys.
Speaker 2: It sucks no, well no, but I mean, now, look
Speaker 2: you guys a couple of things. Ali, it's only eighteen
Speaker 2: ems Science Guy show. And keep in mind that the
Speaker 2: writers won every I was one of the writers. We
Speaker 2: won five times.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The editors and the sound design, sound mixers, these guys
Speaker 2: and gals won every year because they were just so creative.
Speaker 2: They're so funny. And you know that voice, Bill, I
Speaker 2: don't think that's gonna work. Bill, that's Pat Cashman. It's
Speaker 2: just a comedy genius.
Speaker 1: Okay, come on, what is the shittiest thing about being
Speaker 1: a beloved icon doing their dream job.
Speaker 2: And so so the most frustrating thing, I guess is
Speaker 2: that we're still fighting this fight. That climate change was
Speaker 2: discovered and presented to Congress in nineteen eighty eight, and
Speaker 2: we have hardly done anything about it, and it is
Speaker 2: quite frustrating. And so everybody vote then, I mean, I'll
Speaker 2: say that it's a guy on the on camera Department
Speaker 2: the OCD, as I like to call it. Is you know,
Speaker 2: you're standing there, your knees get tired, your feet get tired.
Speaker 2: It is I'm whining. It's not only getting your head
Speaker 2: blown off in a war, but it's some days it's
Speaker 2: physically quite difficult for me. But so what Yeah, come on, man,
Speaker 2: we're trying to change the world here. Let's go make
Speaker 2: something of yourself. Come on, people anyway, when when when
Speaker 2: you guys, my life's amazing. You know, I have my
Speaker 2: health and it's just my life's amazing.
Speaker 1: And actually, on that note, JV. Hampton Van Sandt says, Hi,
Speaker 1: they're Bill can Bill, And I say hello to all
Speaker 1: the trans people who follow ologies, like just hello all transologites.
Speaker 2: I don't know hi transologizes. So you guys that show,
Speaker 2: and Rachel Bloom was on a big part of it.
Speaker 2: We did a show about human sexuality based on the
Speaker 2: current science about people and the way they perceive themselves,
Speaker 2: the way they present themselves to the world, the way
Speaker 2: with whom they want to hang out. Can I say
Speaker 2: hang out on ologies? You can say that with whom
Speaker 2: they want to interact? Yes, you know, interact.
Speaker 1: Hard, Yes, big, big, big knowing wink.
Speaker 5: Anyway, this is what is happening with the study of
Speaker 5: human sex and sexuality right now. Biologists, sociologists, anthropologists, they're
Speaker 5: all trying to figure this out and they're finding human
Speaker 5: sexuals is on a spectrum.
Speaker 1: Also, I have some great friends who worked on this episode,
Speaker 1: including Derek Mueller and Tikan Wall and Sandon Tauten, and
Speaker 1: they were nominated for an Emmy for writing. Not everyone
Speaker 1: was pleased, however.
Speaker 2: Everybody, so many people are so upset by that show.
Speaker 2: You know, what's a big deal. It's like, this is
Speaker 2: the latest science. You know, if just accept people, what's
Speaker 2: it to you man and woman and or queer person?
Speaker 2: You know, what's what's a big deal? And this gives
Speaker 2: me great hope, Ali, And I'm not changing the subject.
Speaker 2: Just look how fast the world embraced gay marriage. I'm serious.
Speaker 2: It went on, you know whatever, pick a number, four hundred,
Speaker 2: five hundred one thousand years. People weren't that into gay marriage,
Speaker 2: at least not in Europe, and then in the United
Speaker 2: States and places that were colonized by the British Empire,
Speaker 2: people were not that into what were very critical of
Speaker 2: gay people or rejected shunned them, I think, as the
Speaker 2: modern word, shunned gay people. But then the last sixteen
Speaker 2: years whatever, Oh, gay people are getting married. Oh okay, Oh,
Speaker 2: I guess wow, the world's still spinning. Yeah. Are they
Speaker 2: paying taxes? They are they paying? Yeah, they're paying to
Speaker 2: Oh do they work at my coffee? Whoa they designed
Speaker 2: my car? Whoa they Yeah? I guess it's no big deal. Well,
Speaker 2: I guess you're right. Yeah, And so you know, Australia
Speaker 2: does that big Bokay, we're going to gay marriage.
Speaker 4: Oh okay.
Speaker 2: And so this gives me and I'm not changing this ubbect.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be great hope for climate change that I'll
Speaker 2: bet you they'll be sweeping changes that are instituted or
Speaker 2: put in place very quickly because people just want these
Speaker 2: sweeping changes.
Speaker 1: Bill says depending on how the election goes. And we
Speaker 1: of course recorded this a few weeks ago, but it's
Speaker 1: coming out on election day, November third, So Bill and
Speaker 1: I would like you to kindly vote if you have
Speaker 1: not already.
Speaker 2: So I think things are going to change very quickly,
Speaker 2: and I want to thank the LGBTQ community for being leaders,
Speaker 2: for being brave and going out there and demanding change
Speaker 2: and black lives matter. We are living at an extraordinary time.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm so old, Ali. I remember when Malcolm
Speaker 2: X was shot, when Martin Luther King Washaw. I grew
Speaker 2: up in the city of Washington. I remember Resurrection City,
Speaker 2: this Plywood Encampment on the National Mall that led that
Speaker 2: was the audience for the I Have a Dream speech.
Speaker 2: And so Bobby Kennedy getting shot. Remember all this stuff
Speaker 2: as a kid, and it led to some big changes,
Speaker 2: but not big enough. And so we are at a
Speaker 2: time now where things could we could make just cool,
Speaker 2: important and wonderful changes. So everybody, let's embrace the future.
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 1: My last question is just what do you love the
Speaker 1: most about what you do about being?
Speaker 2: Oh well, as the saying goes, when you're in love,
Speaker 2: you want to tell the world, and I love I
Speaker 2: really do love science. I love the process and the
Speaker 2: body of knowledge. And you know, it's fashionable now again
Speaker 2: to be a nerd. And I'm a nerd, you know,
Speaker 2: I think, Ali, if I know you well enough, you're
Speaker 2: I'm a nerd.
Speaker 3: Nerd, I'm a nerd.
Speaker 2: And so it's learning and learning about the universe and
Speaker 2: our place within. It just fills me with reverence and
Speaker 2: joy every day. And so on the Mars Rovers, Spirit
Speaker 2: and Opportunity, which are on the surface of Mars right now,
Speaker 2: both are not operating, they're in op but Curiosity is
Speaker 2: still running, still roving. On all three of these spacecraft.
Speaker 2: There's a it gives a thing where we get the
Speaker 2: cover of the pictures right, a photometric calibration target. And
Speaker 2: we called them the Mars dials because for a while
Speaker 2: we used them as sun dials on Mars. I say,
Speaker 2: we had the planetary science community used them electronically, used
Speaker 2: them as sundials. We had a student project, the Earth
Speaker 2: Dial Project, so very cool. But in little letters around
Speaker 2: the edge of each of these three things, it says
Speaker 2: we built these spacecraft in two thousand and three, rd
Speaker 2: in twenty four or twenty twelve, we built them to
Speaker 2: learn about the Martian environment, to look for signs of
Speaker 2: water in life. And then it says on the last
Speaker 2: of the four edges, it says, to those who visit here,
Speaker 2: we wish a safe journey and the joy of discovery.
Speaker 2: And that, my friends, is the essence of the scientific enterprise.
Speaker 2: Is the joy of discovery, the jod, as I call it.
Speaker 2: And science is as far as anybody can tell, the
Speaker 2: best way to make discoveries about the cosmos, about ourselves
Speaker 2: and our place within it. And so that's what gets
Speaker 2: me every day, Ali, is the joy of discovery. Celebrate it,
Speaker 2: my friends. Thank you so much for having me on
Speaker 2: your podcast.
Speaker 3: You the best, the best.
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to ologies, let me just tell you,
Speaker 2: Ali Ward is all that.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm tattooing that on my back like a book blurb.
Speaker 1: By the way, but Science Rules is so good. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for doing it. People can find Science
Speaker 1: Rules wherever they find podcasts.
Speaker 2: Oh so, Ali, may I also add we have two versions.
Speaker 2: We have Science Rules, a long version on which you
Speaker 2: were and we also are doing Science Rules Coronavirus edition,
Speaker 2: where we have the real experts on this thing, on
Speaker 2: this pandemic, telling it as it is. We had Tony
Speaker 2: Fauci on the Everybody wear a mask and wash your hands,
Speaker 2: and thank you again.
Speaker 1: Alan, oh, thank you so much. You're the best. Just
Speaker 1: keeping you Okay, okay, okay, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 2: Bill, thank you. Let's change the world. Yay.
Speaker 3: So what do we do?
Speaker 1: We get your smart heroes on the horn and you
Speaker 1: ask them stupid questions about climate change and ties and
Speaker 1: everything in between. And for more on this up and
Speaker 1: coming sidecommer Bill Nye, you can visit Bill ny dot com.
Speaker 1: You can follow him on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok
Speaker 1: at Bill Nye and listen to his podcast Science Rules.
Speaker 1: So there's so many guests and episodes you're gonna love.
Speaker 1: We are at ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at
Speaker 1: Ali Ward with one L on both. Please be my friend.
Speaker 1: There will be links in the show notes as well
Speaker 1: as at aliward dot com, slash ologies slash Bill Nye.
Speaker 1: Because pedagogology is too tough, too tough to say, too
Speaker 1: tough to spell. Ologies merch, including some brand new masks,
Speaker 1: are available at ologiesmirch dot com. Thank you shannonfel Test
Speaker 1: and Bonni Dutch for managing that they are sisters who
Speaker 1: host a comedy podcast, You Are That, which is very
Speaker 1: worth checking out. Also Halbert Admin's Theologies podcast Facebook group,
Speaker 1: and you can also join the community at patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash Ologies. Thank you to every single person they're
Speaker 1: making the show possible. Emily White heads up a league
Speaker 1: of wonderful transcriptionists and those transcripts are linked in the
Speaker 1: show notes. They're available for free. Caleb Patton bleeps episodes
Speaker 1: to make Them Kids Safe, and those are available on
Speaker 1: the same web page. Noel Dilworth helps with scheduling guests.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Noel. Assistant editing and emotional cheerleading
Speaker 1: is done by the wonderful Jarrett Sleeper, who hosts the
Speaker 1: mental health podcast Make Good Bed Brain, and of course
Speaker 1: the not in All of Our Ties main editor Stephen
Speaker 1: Ray Morris, who hosts the podcast The Percast about kiddies
Speaker 1: and c Jurassic Right, which is about dinosaurs. Nick Thorburn
Speaker 1: wrote and performed the theme music and he's also in
Speaker 1: a band called Islands, a very good band. And if
Speaker 1: you stick around to the end of the episode, you
Speaker 1: know I tell you a secret and this week it's
Speaker 1: my ding Dang birthday, and I haven't taken a real
Speaker 1: vacation since two thousand and nine, And as a surprise,
Speaker 1: Jarrett booked some time away for four days at a
Speaker 1: remote location with no self service, and then he realized
Speaker 1: after he booked it that it's clothing optional. So for
Speaker 1: my birthday, I was possibly gonna go see a lot
Speaker 1: of floppy dongs and some bare nips, maybe some untrimmed muffs.
Speaker 1: But Gremy is on the mend. Apparently our dog has
Speaker 1: a bad back, so we have to postpone. So stay
Speaker 1: tuned because I look forward to talking to you about
Speaker 1: some naked people I see in the future. Either way,
Speaker 1: I hope we all have an easy and comforting early November.
Speaker 1: Do a lot of breathing. Just stare at a wall, breathe,
Speaker 1: Drink some bubbly water.
Speaker 3: You are important. Thank you for voting.
Speaker 1: When you got this. Okay okaye pacodermatologyology, r doo, zoology,
Speaker 1: lithology and technology, meteorology, bartology, napology, zeriology, slinology.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for sitting high and dry with me
Speaker 2: as we considered the fault