Speaker 1: Look, Trump is beyond being embarrassed. He has no sense
Speaker 1: of shame.
Speaker 2: Or propriety or moral guidance or any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: It astounds me to watch Mark Carney be a better
Speaker 1: president than Donald Trump. Mark Carney has more dignity and gravitas.
Speaker 1: And as somebody said the other day, Mark Carney is
Speaker 1: the West Wing president people wanted.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the Trump Report.
Speaker 4: I'm Maddie Hale.
Speaker 3: Lots to discuss today, guys. Of course, we've got these
Speaker 3: Iran updates. We've got this Trump versus Canada stuff. We've
Speaker 3: got some new information about Putin and his plans and
Speaker 3: the way he's been helping Iran.
Speaker 4: So we're going to get all into that.
Speaker 3: We're going to also talk about some polling and what
Speaker 3: it means for the Republican Party ahead of the midterm
Speaker 3: elections in November. So my guest today is co-founder of
Speaker 3: the Lincoln Project, Rick Wilson. Rick, so good to see
Speaker 3: you again.
Speaker 2: Likewise.
Speaker 4: I just said to you that the audience.
Speaker 3: Will be happy to see you back on their screens
Speaker 3: and get your take on everything happening because there's a
Speaker 3: lot that's been going on this week. We had a
Speaker 3: slower August. We're September 2 today. And, of course, everything's
Speaker 3: heating up. So I want to start with Iran with you.
Speaker 3: And I just want to give you the timeline of
Speaker 3: what's been happening.
Speaker 4: So the U.S.
Speaker 3: Strikes on Iran over alleged attempts to mine the Strait
Speaker 3: of Hormuz. Iran retaliates against the United States bases. The
Speaker 3: US launches a much larger wave of strikes. Trump warns
Speaker 3: Iran not to retaliate again, threatens even harder attacks. Iran
Speaker 3: defies him anyway, firing missiles and drones at these US
Speaker 3: targets across the region. Now the question is whether Trump
Speaker 3: follows through and escalates the war again. I mean, how
Speaker 3: do you see this playing out?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Maddy, we're seven months into this operation.
Speaker 1: We were told in the very beginning of it that
Speaker 1: Iran was obliterated, that their capacity to wage war was
Speaker 1: completely annihilated. that we had won, that the Iranian people
Speaker 1: were told to rise up, and that the war was over.
Speaker 2: And the war has been over every week since then.
Speaker 1: We are in a constant state right now where Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's spin is not coincident with the reality of what's
Speaker 1: happening in the Gulf. And Iran has continued to do
Speaker 1: enormous damage to American military forces and bases around the
Speaker 1: Middle East, which the administration has either covered up, lied about,
Speaker 1: or denied. We've seen that the Iranians are not deterred
Speaker 1: by continued American airstrikes. They have, in fact, consolidated their power.
Speaker 1: The theocratic wing, the mullahs, have consolidated their power in
Speaker 1: the period in which we've been attacking them. So peace
Speaker 1: in the Middle East is a distant dream right now.
Speaker 1: The Iranians control the Strait of Hormuz. Therefore, they control
Speaker 1: a lot of what happens to the world economy. The
Speaker 1: Strait is not open, despite what Trump keeps telling people.
Speaker 1: And we're in a moment right now where Russia and
Speaker 1: China have seen the weakness of the United States in
Speaker 1: this particular region of the world. And they're both helping
Speaker 1: Iran to, you know, improve their technology, improve their targeting
Speaker 1: against American forces. And, you know, the great science fiction
Speaker 1: writer William Gibson once said, the future is here, it's
Speaker 1: just not evenly distributed yet. That's the same principle of
Speaker 1: World War III right now. It's not evenly distributed yet,
Speaker 1: but in the Gulf, Iran is winning.
Speaker 3: We will get into how Russia's played a part in
Speaker 3: a minute, but I want to get your thoughts because
Speaker 3: you said Trump's been saying that the Strait of Hormuz
Speaker 3: is open. So just days after Trump declared that the
Speaker 3: Strait of Hormuz has been cleared of all of these
Speaker 3: Iranian mines, Iran allegedly tried to lay new ones, exactly
Speaker 3: what we feared would happen.
Speaker 4: So how can Trump now claim that the U.S.
Speaker 3: Has almost total control of the Strait while insisting he's
Speaker 3: not trying to force Iran back to the negotiating table
Speaker 3: when this is happening? I mean, they quite literally attacked
Speaker 3: Iran because they believed that they were trying to lay
Speaker 3: more mines in the Strait.
Speaker 1: I mean, Maddie, the problem we have now is, again,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's, the reality he tries to create is not
Speaker 1: the reality of the world.
Speaker 2: And he can say all he.
Speaker 1: Wants that the Strait is open, but Sea mines are
Speaker 1: a very cheap Iranian weapon. They bought them from the
Speaker 1: Soviets back in the 80s and 90s for about $ 8 apiece.
Speaker 2: They have thousands of them.
Speaker 1: They're going to throw them into the Gulf either from
Speaker 1: the back of boats or from these mine-laying missile systems
Speaker 1: they have.
Speaker 2: None of this is a recipe for....
Speaker 1: For, for insurance companies and shipping companies to say, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm confident to take our valuable cargo through the street.
Speaker 1: So we've seen these, this enormous backlog still in this,
Speaker 1: you know, in the Gulf built up Iran controls. And
Speaker 1: unless you're paying Iran, their vig, their, their, their cut,
Speaker 1: they're not going to let a ship through unless it's
Speaker 1: for China, Iran's ally.
Speaker 2: They're not going to let a ship through.
Speaker 1: So, so we really don't have a real lever right now, uh,
Speaker 1: that it's going to stop them from using this asymmetric,
Speaker 1: low-cost warfare against the world economy.
Speaker 2: And, you know, the Strait was open before this war.
Speaker 2: It is not open now.
Speaker 3: Iran says that five civilians, including a four-year-old child, were
Speaker 3: killed in this U.S. strike after it hit a wedding venue.
Speaker 3: And Trump said that, he then said, you know, where
Speaker 3: are the Iranian people? When are they going to rise.
Speaker 4: Up and fight? But Civilian deaths from U.S.
Speaker 3: Strikes have the exact opposite effect, reigniting this anti-American sentiment
Speaker 3: and making Iranians more likely to rally against the U.S.
Speaker 4: Rather than rise up against their regime. Is that how
Speaker 4: you see it?
Speaker 2: It is, Maddie.
Speaker 1: And I will say this. I love Iran and Iranians.
Speaker 1: They are fascinating people. They're an educated people. And they
Speaker 1: really wanted something different. And it was slowly, demographically, the
Speaker 1: country was changing. And the grip that the mullahs had
Speaker 1: on the people after 47 years was slipping. Because for
Speaker 1: 47 years they said, oh, the great Satan wants to
Speaker 1: destroy you, the great Satan wants to kill us all. Well,
Speaker 1: now the great Satan is actually bombing civilian targets in Iran,
Speaker 1: and it really has had an effect for the theocratic
Speaker 1: regime that runs Iran of solidifying their power. It has
Speaker 1: set back the possibility of a liberated Iran by a generation.
Speaker 2: In my view.
Speaker 3: Well, on that note, so you told me last time
Speaker 3: you were on the show that you believe the United
Speaker 3: States didn't have the military capabilities to properly protect these U.S.
Speaker 4: Bases in the region. We're now seeing, well.
Speaker 3: We have been seeing Iran continuously target these military bases,
Speaker 3: including yesterday. So how worried are you that U.S. military bases,
Speaker 3: resources and troops' lives are seriously at risk?
Speaker 1: Listen, I think it's an absolutely existential crisis for the
Speaker 1: American military. We have lost control of our key naval
Speaker 1: facility in Bahrain. We are pulling troops out of our
Speaker 1: key air facilities, especially Al Udeid in Qatar. We are
Speaker 1: no longer capable of mounting the anti-missile defenses that would
Speaker 1: protect these facilities. We have burned through all of our
Speaker 1: anti-missile weapons, and we're now using what they call point
Speaker 1: defense weapons, which means you have seconds, not minutes, to
Speaker 1: defend yourself, and the Iranians have gotten good at spoofing
Speaker 1: our systems. This is not– the military infrastructure we built
Speaker 1: over generations in the Gulf is being dismantled by inexpensive
Speaker 1: drone warfare on the part of the Iranians. And that
Speaker 1: drone warfare is, to go back again, in part enabled
Speaker 1: by Russia and China.
Speaker 3: Reuters reported today that Trump wants to keep the Iran
Speaker 3: war relatively quiet until the midterm elections are over because
Speaker 3: they fear this major, you know, fear major Republican losses
Speaker 3: with greater military action, potentially reconsidering, you know, causing Americans
Speaker 3: to reconsider their vote. But how politically cynical do you
Speaker 3: think it would be for the timing of the war
Speaker 3: if this is shaped by the midterms?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's undeniable that the midterms are in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way, being determined because America does not like this
Speaker 1: war at all. Republicans don't like it. Democrats don't like it.
Speaker 1: Independents particularly hate it. And it has been an economic
Speaker 1: and a foreign policy disaster for America.
Speaker 2: It is driving a lot of the anxiety and the anger.
Speaker 1: The Republican Party has a very large cohort that does
Speaker 1: not like forever wars and overseas interventions. The gas prices,
Speaker 1: the economic impact on fuel, on fertilizer, on sulfur, that
Speaker 1: all come out of the Gulf, has been an enormous
Speaker 1: hit on the American economy.
Speaker 2: It is shaping this election.
Speaker 1: And I frankly think even if he quieted down the war,
Speaker 1: that's not going to change the price of gas at
Speaker 1: the pump. It's not going to change the public perception
Speaker 1: that this war is a disaster, which is a correct perception,
Speaker 1: by the way.
Speaker 4: Well, what do you think will happen after the midterms, Rick?
Speaker 1: Well, look, right now we are looking at a, almost
Speaker 1: every model shows the Democrats will control the house of representatives. Increasingly, um, the, the, the,
Speaker 1: the polling models and the political models are showing that
Speaker 1: the Democrats have a very good shot at controlling the
Speaker 1: U S Senate. If they control the U S Senate
Speaker 1: and the house, this war is going to end. It
Speaker 1: will be, it will be, it will be shut down. Um,
Speaker 1: The Iranians were not close to a nuclear weapon. That
Speaker 1: is a sort of comforting lie the Trump administration told
Speaker 1: itself and the country. And we're going to see that
Speaker 1: we're going to have to withdraw from the Gulf. We're
Speaker 1: going to have to shut this thing down in the
Speaker 1: posture it is. We're going to have to come to
Speaker 1: a settlement with Iran. We didn't have to be here.
Speaker 1: Generations of American political leadership understood that this particular war
Speaker 1: would be a disaster for the world economy and the
Speaker 1: American economy. And the Democrats have to be ready to
Speaker 1: to force the president's hand on this with the War
Speaker 1: Powers Act. We've got to stop the sort of polite
Speaker 1: fiction that this is not a war that we started,
Speaker 1: a war of our choice.
Speaker 4: Let's get into Russia's involvement.
Speaker 3: So Trump has been pressuring Putin to abandon Iran, even
Speaker 3: sending his CIA director, John Ratcliffe, to Moscow last week.
Speaker 3: But the Financial Times is now revealing that Russia has
Speaker 3: secretly been helping Tehran develop these missiles capable of of
Speaker 3: threatening US warships since 2023. That cooperation has continued right
Speaker 3: up until this war. So there is no evidence that
Speaker 3: any of these have been operational, any of these Russian-assisted
Speaker 3: supersonic missiles have been deployed.
Speaker 4: We don't know if they've been used.
Speaker 3: But if Putin is providing Iran with intelligence, which you've
Speaker 3: said to me that you 100% believe that they are,
Speaker 3: and helping develop weapons that could be threatening US forces,
Speaker 3: Why isn't the Trump administration treating Russia as an adversary?
Speaker 1: Because Donald Trump has a mental defect about how he
Speaker 1: views Russia. He has a belief that Putin is his friend,
Speaker 1: that he loves him, that he admires him, and Trump
Speaker 1: reciprocates that. Now, Putin looks at Trump as a fool
Speaker 1: and a sucker. Putin is an old intelligence officer who
Speaker 1: has Trump in his brain as someone he can manipulate.
Speaker 1: Trump believes that Putin is his friend and that Russia
Speaker 1: is the future and that Russia, um, is this.
Speaker 2: Unconquerable power in the world.
Speaker 1: It is, it is a, a, a persistent mystery to
Speaker 1: many Americans why this is, but it shouldn't be. This
Speaker 1: is a guy, Trump is a guy who, who is
Speaker 1: the textbook case of easily manipulated and, and Putin has
Speaker 1: easily manipulated him for 10 years now. Um, Russia is
Speaker 1: at war with the West. They're at war with America.
Speaker 1: They're at war with Europe. They're at war with Britain.
Speaker 1: They are a terrorist state that is right now involved
Speaker 1: in targeting civilians in a war they chose in Ukraine.
Speaker 1: They are committing war crimes at scale. They are right
Speaker 1: now engaged in this hybrid war with Europe. We've seen
Speaker 1: growing numbers of sabotage and terrorist attacks across Europe generated
Speaker 1: by Russia, operated likely by the GRU, And Trump.
Speaker 2: Is the last guy in the room who doesn't understand this.
Speaker 1: He doesn't believe it and understand it, but we are
Speaker 1: at a point now in this country where the threat
Speaker 1: that Russia has posed to destabilize all of Europe and
Speaker 1: the Middle East is a tangible threat, and only Trump
Speaker 1: believes that Russia... Well, and his Deputy Secretary of Defense,
Speaker 1: Elbridge Colby, who they are both Putin fanboys of the
Speaker 1: highest order, and they... They don't see a threat where
Speaker 1: everyone else in the world sees the bombs going off.
Speaker 4: If U.S.
Speaker 3: Forces are or were ultimately killed by Russian-assisted Iranian missiles,
Speaker 3: how would the American people react.
Speaker 4: To that, do you think?
Speaker 3: Would they be furious that Trump had the power to
Speaker 3: squeeze Putin economically but didn't do more to bankrupt Russia
Speaker 3: while helping arm America's enemy?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, Donald Trump invited.
Speaker 1: Putin's treasury secretary to the G20 summit this week, to
Speaker 1: the horror, correctly, of everyone from Europe and the rest
Speaker 1: of the G20. Donald Trump does not care if Putin's
Speaker 1: weapons kill Americans. He doesn't care. He puts his relationship
Speaker 1: with Putin before the lives of the U.S. troops that
Speaker 1: are on the line in the Middle East and elsewhere.
Speaker 2: It's just a fact.
Speaker 3: So you really don't think that Donald Trump cares if U.S.
Speaker 3: troops are killed in this war?
Speaker 2: He does not care.
Speaker 1: If the Iranians kill them, he cares somewhat, but if
Speaker 1: the Russian weapons kill them, he does not care. He
Speaker 1: has a gigantic blind spot to Vladimir Putin's actions.
Speaker 2: He doesn't care.
Speaker 1: They believe that Vladimir Putin is their ally in the
Speaker 1: White House, and it is a horrific choice by Trump,
Speaker 1: and it is something that has put the country in danger,
Speaker 1: but You know, Putin is waging war on the West,
Speaker 1: including the United States, and Donald Trump will be the
Speaker 1: last person to see it and admit it.
Speaker 3: You know, when I have Sir Bill Browder on my show,
Speaker 3: he was on yesterday as well, he actively tries to
Speaker 3: wrap his head around why Trump has this fascination and,
Speaker 3: you know, blind spot for Vladimir Putin. And he, as
Speaker 3: you and I have discussed, he can't figure it out,
Speaker 3: but he thinks that there is something sinister under Putin
Speaker 3: under the wraps going on between the two, whether it be,
Speaker 3: you know, a pact for an eventual business deal and
Speaker 3: investment in Russia when that is necessary.
Speaker 4: But I mean, what are your thoughts on that, Rick?
Speaker 3: Do you think that, you know, under the cover of darkness,
Speaker 3: there is something going on between the two?
Speaker 1: In 1987, Donald Trump made his first trip to Moscow.
Speaker 1: And when he was in Moscow, something happened. I don't
Speaker 1: know what. No one knows what.
Speaker 2: But he came back and immediately put a letter in
Speaker 2: the New York– a paid ad in the New York
Speaker 2: Times that said we need to get out of NATO, that.
Speaker 1: We're paying too much. It was Russian Talking Points 101.
Speaker 1: At that moment, something had happened in Trump's brain. And
Speaker 1: whether it was compromise or whether it was just Trump's
Speaker 1: unsophisticated nature or whether it was the Russians just persuading
Speaker 1: him that he could do business in Russia and build
Speaker 1: a Trump Tower in Moscow– Whatever it was, whether it
Speaker 1: was venality or a compromise, Trump changed.
Speaker 2: And he has never abandoned that since 1987.
Speaker 1: If Trump was not a Russian asset, the old question is,
Speaker 1: how could you tell?
Speaker 2: If he's not a Russian asset, how could you tell?
Speaker 1: Because he's always made choices as a private citizen, as
Speaker 1: a businessman, as a candidate, and as a president to
Speaker 1: accept Russia on its terms, not on America's terms. And
Speaker 1: so I think that there will someday be a revelation
Speaker 1: about what happened. We will someday get a look inside
Speaker 1: Russia's archives, as we did after the Cold War with
Speaker 1: the Matryoshkin archive. We will someday get a look at
Speaker 1: this and understand it, but no one can really tell
Speaker 1: you what and.
Speaker 2: Why Trump's brain is shaped the way it is when
Speaker 2: it comes to Russia.
Speaker 3: So you believe there is something more sinister, deeper involved
Speaker 3: in the relationship between Trump and Putin. And one day,
Speaker 3: hopefully soon, we will find out.
Speaker 1: Whether it's financial or sexual or whatever it is, I
Speaker 1: don't know that answer. But I know that the pattern
Speaker 1: of his behavior is absolutely inexplicable. without something being underneath that.
Speaker 1: You know, in intelligence, they used to say there was
Speaker 1: an acronym called MICE, money, ideology, compromise, and ego. And
Speaker 1: those were the four ways you got somebody to work
Speaker 1: for a foreign power. Trump is vulnerable on all those axes.
Speaker 1: Money drives his behavior incredibly powerfully. Ideology, he believes in
Speaker 1: the strongman. He believes in the monarchy model, the dictator model,
Speaker 1: the autocrat model.
Speaker 2: Compromise, He's a degenerate. Ego.
Speaker 1: Obviously, his ego is not something that we can ignore.
Speaker 1: So he's vulnerable in all these ways. And something changed.
Speaker 1: Something broke him in 87, broke bad in 87 toward
Speaker 1: the Russian perspective.
Speaker 2: And he's never abandoned it.
Speaker 3: Let's move on to a different kind of relationship, Rick,
Speaker 3: which is, of course, Donald Trump and Mark Carney.
Speaker 4: So Mark Carney has had enough of Trump.
Speaker 3: He's told the Trump administration, stop doing your memes.
Speaker 4: Stop throwing shade.
Speaker 3: And stop trying to be tough after Trump launched, you know,
Speaker 3: more verbal attacks and spent the weekend posting these AI
Speaker 3: videos of Lake America, rebranding the Canadian geese to the duck.
Speaker 3: So Trump's administration seems to be doubling down on this,
Speaker 3: but I want to get your thoughts on this, Rick,
Speaker 3: you know, is this whole thing embarrassing for Trump, especially
Speaker 3: when the Canadian PM has to basically tell him to
Speaker 3: shut up?
Speaker 1: Look, Trump is beyond being embarrassed. He has no sense
Speaker 1: of shame or propriety or moral guidance or any of
Speaker 1: that stuff. It, astounds me to watch Mark Carney be
Speaker 1: a better president than Donald Trump. Mark Carney has more
Speaker 1: dignity and gravitas, and as somebody said the other day,
Speaker 1: Mark Carney is the West Wing president people wanted. He's
Speaker 1: the kind of guy who is the adult in the room,
Speaker 1: who is steady, who is calm, who is smart, who
Speaker 1: has an intellectual capacity to deal with complex leadership issues.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is... Clownish in all these things, and he's
Speaker 1: trying to meme his way to victory over Canada. If
Speaker 1: you're losing negotiations with the nicest country on earth, you're losing.
Speaker 1: And Trump, he doesn't have the ability to understand how
Speaker 1: clownish and embarrassing he is. 68% of Americans oppose this
Speaker 1: whole Lake Ontario thing. 78% of Americans oppose the trade
Speaker 1: war with Canada. Carney has handled this perfectly, and he's
Speaker 1: called Trump out.
Speaker 2: For what he is. He's a child. He's juvenile.
Speaker 1: It's petty and foolish, and it doesn't accomplish any goal
Speaker 1: for America. america is not safer or richer or better
Speaker 1: in the world by going to war with our neighbor
Speaker 1: and closest ally it just isn't the case and americans
Speaker 1: get it it's also hurting trump politically maddie in a
Speaker 1: way that that he doesn't care about or understand um
Speaker 1: maine where we have a vital u.s senate race Michigan,
Speaker 1: where we have another vital U.S.
Speaker 2: Senate race. Alaska, where we have another vital U.S. Senate race.
Speaker 1: All of these states are involved every single day with
Speaker 1: massive trade and commerce with Canada. The voters in those
Speaker 1: states are being hurt by Trump's decision to put a
Speaker 1: 50% tariff on the Canadians.
Speaker 2: It's madness. It's political malpractice. But of course, he's going
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: And of course, the Republican Party is going to say,
Speaker 1: this is the most brilliant thing we've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, dear leader. Do more.
Speaker 1: So it really has had a profoundly stupid effect on.
Speaker 2: Trump's own base by doing this.
Speaker 1: And I think we're going to end up with Mark
Speaker 1: Carney looking like a hero out of this because the
Speaker 1: tariffs are going to go away. Trump will either withdraw
Speaker 1: them on his own because of the economic calamity they cause,
Speaker 1: or Congress, when it's in the hands of the Democrats,
Speaker 1: will take back its tariff power that it has under
Speaker 1: the Constitution and that was only ceded to Trump by
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson and the Republican Party. Congress has absolute power
Speaker 1: over tariffs. They're in a position to say on day one, nope,
Speaker 1: we're done with this silliness. We're going back to where
Speaker 1: the world ought to be, which is we're going to
Speaker 1: be free and fair open trading partners with our neighbors
Speaker 1: and our friends. And it will frankly improve the economy
Speaker 1: of both countries. And Trump at that point will be
Speaker 1: holding the bag of his embarrassment.
Speaker 3: I thought the polling was quite interesting on the Canada rhetoric,
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, Rick. So, you know, just 20% of
Speaker 3: Americans support these tariffs on Canada, 57% oppose. And then
Speaker 3: I think less than 14% backs this Lake America rhetoric.
Speaker 3: But you said, you know, you mentioned how this kind
Speaker 3: of falls on Republicans. But CNN was reporting yesterday that
Speaker 3: several Republicans are not happy with With Trump's rhetoric towards Canada,
Speaker 3: and my guest Bill yesterday, he was saying his Republican
Speaker 3: contacts have voiced the same concerns. So I wanted to
Speaker 3: get your thoughts. I mean, you've obviously got your finger
Speaker 3: on the pulse. Have you had many of your Republican
Speaker 3: friends and sources tell you what's going on behind closed doors?
Speaker 1: I had a friend who's working for Susan Collins yesterday,
Speaker 1: or the day before yesterday, excuse me, tell me this
Speaker 1: is probably the stupidest thing. And he said to me,
Speaker 1: he goes, we thought we could save this election and now...
Speaker 1: This is going to put a direct hit on Maine timber,
Speaker 1: lobsters and fishing, and the services economy in Maine that
Speaker 1: depends on that trade with Canada. Now Susan Collins, she
Speaker 1: can say she objects to it all she wants, but
Speaker 1: once again, she has no power to stop Trump from
Speaker 1: hurting her state.
Speaker 2: So they feel like that really hurt them. In Michigan...
Speaker 2: You know, we've seen a number.
Speaker 1: Of polls that El-Sayed is now ahead of Rodgers by five,
Speaker 1: six points in a number of polls. And Michigan's trade
Speaker 1: with Canada on the industrial side, on the automotive side,
Speaker 1: is enormous. And now you've got Mike Rodgers having to
Speaker 1: defend a policy that's directly hurting the very voters he
Speaker 1: needs to win over to get back on top in Michigan.
Speaker 1: So it has really reshaped the campaigns there in the
Speaker 1: last few days. And given these Democratic candidates who, frankly,
Speaker 1: were both in a little bit of an uphill climb
Speaker 1: before this, it has given them a real boost against
Speaker 1: their Republican opponents. And even if Trump undoes his positions now,
Speaker 1: the damage has been done. So it is definitely an
Speaker 1: own goal politically.
Speaker 2: For the Republicans.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, we're 18 months into this second term, Rick.
Speaker 3: We've had Mark Carney, Georgia Maloney, Keir Starmer, you know, Fredrickson, Albanese, Macron, Mertz.
Speaker 3: These are just a few of the world leaders that
Speaker 3: Trump has now clashed with, leader after leader of America's
Speaker 3: closest allies. I mean, how do you think this looks?
Speaker 3: At what point does this America first simply become America alone?
Speaker 2: Well, that is.
Speaker 1: Really part of the objective in Trump's mind. He is
Speaker 1: a believer, and there are some people around him who
Speaker 1: are believers in this idea that the world should be
Speaker 1: split into.
Speaker 2: Three factions, basically.
Speaker 1: The Chinese get Asia, the Americans get North and South America,
Speaker 1: Russia gets Europe, and Africa's a jump ball. And Trump
Speaker 1: really believes that that is the world in the future.
Speaker 2: It is not.
Speaker 1: But America alone does not bother Trump. He doesn't believe
Speaker 1: in alliances except with Russia. He wants to realign the
Speaker 1: world that came to be after the Cold War ended
Speaker 1: so that it is essentially three autocratic power blocks.
Speaker 2: That is not.
Speaker 1: In America's best interest, obviously. It is not America's values, obviously.
Speaker 1: It is not Europe's values, obviously. But the idea in
Speaker 1: Trump's head that we should not have allies that have
Speaker 1: been with us for 80, 90, hundreds of years is insane,
Speaker 1: of course. But it is very typical of Trump to
Speaker 1: do the thing that hurts America most.
Speaker 4: We need to get into this Pentagon purge. I want
Speaker 4: to get your thoughts.
Speaker 3: This is heating up again. Pete Hegseth's leadership is very
Speaker 3: much under scrutiny. So I'm just going to read out
Speaker 3: a bit of a timeline for the audience, Rick. So
Speaker 3: Pete Hegseth has launched this sweeping military shakeup. More than
Speaker 3: two dozen senior officers have reportedly been fired or sidelined,
Speaker 3: a lot of them without public explanation. In April, he
Speaker 3: fired the army chief, General Randy George, a key figure
Speaker 3: in Dan Driscoll's push to modernize the army through drones,
Speaker 3: a new warfare that was kind of going to what
Speaker 3: you were saying about how it's so important for the U.S.
Speaker 3: Army to be focusing on what works, which is, of course, drones.
Speaker 4: Dan Driscoll, he was clashed with Hegseth.
Speaker 3: He reportedly raised resisting efforts to block certain qualified officers
Speaker 3: for a promotion.
Speaker 4: Last week, Driscoll went to Trump.
Speaker 3: He warned about this purge and how it's damaging the
Speaker 3: army readiness and modernization. Trump was reportedly surprised by this.
Speaker 3: Dan Driscoll then resigns. He leaves the army without Senate-confirmed
Speaker 3: leadership at either the civilian or the uniformed top during
Speaker 3: the war. One defense official warned that the consequences could
Speaker 3: amount to this generational damage. And then this New York
Speaker 3: Times article update from today is that Pete Hegseth has
Speaker 3: now fired or blocked the promotions of more than 80
Speaker 3: generals or admirals, around 10% of America's top military officers. Also,
Speaker 3: it should be noted that we're in the midst of
Speaker 3: a war, we being the United States. But what are
Speaker 3: your thoughts on this military purge? Rick Hegseth, leadership, what
Speaker 3: are your thoughts on that? And are you hearing anything
Speaker 3: on the inside about this?
Speaker 1: Well, the damage Hegseth has done to the Army's leadership
Speaker 1: in particular is catastrophic. He has winnowed out an extraordinarily
Speaker 1: promising generation of young leaders who had a grasp of
Speaker 1: the technological changes that drone warfare and hybrid warfare have
Speaker 1: wrought over the last five years, and particularly during the
Speaker 1: post-Ukraine war.
Speaker 2: He is determined.
Speaker 1: to build a military based around a weird set of
Speaker 1: his own ego needs. He wants the high testosterone warfighter thing,
Speaker 1: but that's not the future of warfare.
Speaker 2: The future of warfare is.
Speaker 1: Technical and technological and driven by drones and driven by
Speaker 1: AI and driven by enhanced targeting and enhanced ISR, intelligence
Speaker 1: surveillance and reconnaissance. He is not willing to have that
Speaker 1: military under him. He's got this idea of, You know,
Speaker 1: early global war on terror, big guys with lots of
Speaker 1: steroids running around, lots of testosterone running around.
Speaker 2: And the war has changed.
Speaker 1: That 19-year-old girl in Ukraine who is running a drone
Speaker 1: operation with 150 network drones against a Russian assault is
Speaker 1: more valuable now than the big muscle dude that Pete
Speaker 1: Hexeth is obsessed by. And unfortunately for Pete Hexeth, he
Speaker 1: was very bitter about his army career. He was never
Speaker 1: selected for the ranger schools or the special services or
Speaker 1: any of the special operations commands. He clearly wanted that.
Speaker 1: That's why he's trying to destroy them in a weird way.
Speaker 1: And so stripping out these generals, stripping out these military
Speaker 1: officials who were innovators is one level in which he's
Speaker 1: destroyed the army in particular. But for the rest of
Speaker 1: the services, he's also targeted every rising military a younger
Speaker 1: leader who is African-American or female or Hispanic. He hates them.
Speaker 1: He wants them out. He's purging the military of those people.
Speaker 1: And he's built an army of online trolls, which he
Speaker 1: thinks is more important than building an army that is
Speaker 1: capable of facing a technological future that he does not
Speaker 1: understand how to achieve. The blowback inside the Senate is
Speaker 1: building quickly. I've heard a lot of senators who voted
Speaker 1: for him are suddenly... absolutely furious. They recognize the damage
Speaker 1: he's causing. It's probably too late to mitigate most of it,
Speaker 1: but it's going to take a generation now to reformat
Speaker 1: and reestablish civilian control of the military in a way
Speaker 1: that honors the values of the United States and the U.S.
Speaker 2: Military.
Speaker 1: He has politicized it at a level that no one
Speaker 1: could have anticipated, except for me, of course, which I
Speaker 1: wrote early in 2025. You must not confirm Pete Hegseth.
Speaker 1: He's a danger to this to the security of the united.
Speaker 3: States so just a final just a no just a
Speaker 3: final question yes or no do you think he should
Speaker 3: be fired absolutely rick wilson thank you so much for
Speaker 3: joining the trump thank you maddie great.
Speaker 2: To be with you as always Thank you.