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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos, I am Dampa Valley coming back

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at you with more jents and of the NBA podcast,

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Fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of Forbes is Fame, and

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of OnlyFans Celebrity. We are here to wrap up our

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series of our biggest questions for every NBA team, and

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during the free agency offseason period we'll apply to do

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like one to check back in in the middle of

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the summer after some stuff is settled. We're onto the

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Central Division, which ends up being pretty timely today more

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because of the trade between the Bulls and the Calves,

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so we'll get into each side of it for them

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as we get to those teams. As a note, we

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know since we're live streaming now, our levels have been

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all jacked up all over the place, So if you're

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in the comments and you want to let us know

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whether more is too loud or I'm too low or

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vice versa, feel free to let us know if it's

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good enough, Like, let's not nitpick here. It's a live stream,

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so we tried to match our levels beforehand and audio

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people get to see me match it in post more

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before we die.

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Speaker 2: How the heck are you? Well? You know, I was

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doing pretty well and then you told me it's definitely

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my fault levels were off. Now I'm a little insulted.

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Speaker 1: Actually that was my intention. So that makes me feel

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really good about how I pose that message. Then we

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begin alphabetically the Chicago bull your Chicago Bulls.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, don't dare. I'll walk off this live stream immediately.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into the questions, let's talk about

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their side of the trade with the Calves. They flipped.

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It was straight up, like you very rarely, just see

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just what player for player. That's it, We're done. They

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traded Lonzo Ball, who has two years and twenty million

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dollars left on his deal. But I think the Seconds

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a team option, and they're bringing back Isaaca Korro, who

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has two years left on the deal that he signed

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with the Calves last offseason. What do you make of

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this for the Bulls?

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Speaker 2: Mort Well, first things first, you know, for the Bulls,

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it's not really that uncommon to make one for one trades.

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See Alex Crusoe, Josh Giddy so.

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Speaker 1: A really good boy.

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Speaker 2: Uh look, actually I actually don't hate it for the

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Bulls because but I'm also grading it on the curve

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like I'm grading the Bulls on a curve because whenever

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they do something it's so mindlessly stupid that this, in comparison,

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is like fine, Like they shore up their wings situation,

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which I actually think is perfectly reasonable, Like having wings

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is not a bad thing. And Okoro, in my personal opinion,

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was a little bit underutilized by the Calves. I feel like,

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I know he's not a high volume three point shooter.

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I know he's not an elite defender, but I think

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he's a solid defender, and I think he's a solid

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three point shooter. I know he's twenty four, so you're

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not exactly expecting him to like level up significantly, but

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I don't think he is quote unquote a finished product,

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so we'll see. I just don't mind him at that

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contract either. It's like twenty two point eight million for

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the next two years. That's just not a bad gamp.

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And this was what the Bulls intended to do when

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they extended a Lonzo. They wanted to flip him for

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something else. Now, what we can talk about is how

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there might have been superior offers out there that it

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shouldn't have taken instead, And that is fair criticism, but

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in terms of what they got back. If we were

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just judging this trade in a vacuum.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was all right, Yeah, I definitely don't

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have a problem with it on the scale of Josh

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Giddy for Alex Caruso. So that's certainly fair to say.

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I also think that, as you mentioned, it kind of

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feels more of a positional void where you trust asac

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a Cord to guard up a little bit more. But

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it feels relatively uninspiring because when you look at the

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Lonzo ball contract, like it feels like you could have

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used it as a vehicle to acquire something better, where

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it's you know, could you have traded him, like could

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you have been a part of the like the Grizzlies

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when they were looking at dump Marcus Smart last year

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and gave up a first round pick. And in this

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situation the Leverete, like it almost feels like they treated

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Isaaca Korro as the better player for them, and it's

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just the Calves wanted to get off this money. And

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we'll get into the Calves a minute, but because they're

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in the second apron ta, Jerome paying him is probably

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prohibitive at this point and now kind of in Lonzo,

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you replace some of his minutes. He does stuff that's different.

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You upgrade your defense, probably upgrade your shooting a little bit,

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maybe you downgrade your just half court play making and

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on ball stuff. So it felt like the Calves needed

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this more than the Bulls did. And it just feels

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like when you look at their returns, just in some

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for dematros In, for Zach Lavine, for excuse me, for

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Alex Caruso, this isn't I want to make it clear,

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it's not on this level, but it's just every single

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trade is underwhelming and it can't always be Oh, well,

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the market said what the market said, and I think

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it's more a matter of timing or in this case,

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I just think that this is a again not bad,

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but just sort of a negotiation process by Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's their brand, right if we look

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at it, Leavin, DeMar Caruso, and now Lonso as well,

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those four players collectively brought back one first round draft pick,

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which originally was Chicago's own. Now, if you just add

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that up, that's a mess, Like if you can't even

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extract more more like more assets out of that foresome yeah, absolutely,

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but I think the reason I'm not, you know, up

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in arms about this. Is like I said, I'm grading

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them on a curve. I had zero expectations. The fact

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that they didn't sell off Lonzo Ball for magic Beans

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is sort of a win. That's where we are. I have,

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I have absolutely zero expectation of them at this point.

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We're at that stage, you know, like is it mad men?

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And that's that series in the Elevator where someone goes like,

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you know, I think you're dumb, and the other one says, like,

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you know, that's funny. I don't think of you at all.

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Something along those lines. That's how I feel about the

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Bulls at this point, where when they do something that's

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just not it g reaches, I'm like, oh, okay, thumbs up,

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which is horrible in its own way, because that means

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you're kind of training everyone to be content with moves

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that are uninspiring.

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Speaker 1: Which look, that's fair, and I think, look, Isaaca Corro

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kind of feels a positional need for them. He's like

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proven to be at points like more of an offensive

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weapon than Patrick Williams too. So does he come in

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and when you look at their roster, he's immediately I

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guess I think you probably could have argued that Lonzo

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Ball was their best three and D guy, and now

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you're kind of if you want to assume, I would

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assume we's still that, but you now have Isaaca Corrow

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as your best three and D guy. When you look

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at how he shot the three ball last year. I've

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just been uninspired a lot of the time. And maybe

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this isn't a concern that Chicago was worried about, but

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like how he fits in the postseason, the limitations, the

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limits that they're like that he poses on your offense

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in those situations. But if they think, look, he's shown

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some feel like on the ball or at least making passes,

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and if they want to, I think if you were

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looking at this to kind of as an encouraging move,

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it's like kind of showing that, oh, maybe the Bulls

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are signaling that they're gonna take more of a future

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focused or slightly bigger picture approach to this season, and

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that's a win in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeap, while we're doing this podcast, I wouldn't be shocked

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if another trade went down because Casey Johnson, pictured here

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on the live stream, has reported that there's a lot

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of shatter about Iotusumo, So we'll see it. Seems like

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he's on the move as well.

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Speaker 1: I would like him on the Knicks. How do we

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get him there?

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Speaker 2: Dude? I would like io on like twenty different teams.

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Can we just like find a way to split him

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into twenty parts because he'd help so many teams. It's

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especially in depth purpose situations, like this guy can play

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the one, he can play the two. In a pinch,

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you can even blame him at the freaking three.

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Speaker 1: He could guard for us as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 2: Too, Yeah, I would trust him to do that in

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spot minutes for sure. He can handle the ball, he

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can play off the ball. I mean, he's he's very good.

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He's just not, you know, a high end starting caliber player.

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So that's why I think he's a little tough to

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peg trade value wise. So we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Hind in the chat. At least they're not Pelicans a

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little stupid, not this time, although moret you weren't on

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that podcast, but we're catching a lot of shit on

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YouTube because we didn't say that Derek Queen is gonna

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be a bus for the Pelicans. We were just like,

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why would you ever give up your twenty twenty six

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protected pick, and the justifications in the comments are just

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one there. Some of them are rude, which is just like, okay,

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like we're talking about that, but they just don't make

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sense where oh, they're probably figuring if they tear it

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down like you have Derek Queen and Jeremiah Fears and

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Trey Murphy. Okay, that's great, But if you get to

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a point where you need to tear it down, you're

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probably gonna want to have kept that.

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Speaker 2: Pick that you No, we shouldn't. It's not about the Pelicans.

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This is about the bulls. But it's about the process.

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It's not about the results necessarily. I mean, whenever you

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make a trade, you know you have to look at

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it through the perspective of value at that moment. I

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mean again, so just going back, we can actually tie

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the balls into this one. So Josh Gitty Alex Caruso, right,

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like that trade last year, Even if Josh Giddy becomes

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an MVP this upcoming season, it's entirely reasonable to go

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back to when the trade occurred and said, well, you

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still did not get enough for Alex Caruso at that

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given time, you should have extracted more. It's a process question.

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And people are so quick to forgive a trade if

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a player like unexpectedly explodes and becomes a thing, then

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they're like, oh, that's a great trade. It No, you

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have to look at it in context, like you have

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to have the nuance and understand where was this team

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at that specific point in time, and gave the trade

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off of that and Derek Queen giving up a future

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unprotected first like twenty twenty six first for the right

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to pick Derek Queen, who, let's be real, a non

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be a non three center at this point, like that

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could change, but so far not exactly super encouraging.

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Speaker 1: That's a gamble, It's an unnecessary risk, like sort of

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you know, with the Bulls and Josh Giddy, I think

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you could at least say the peak version of Josh Giddy,

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like he was just so young that it was easier

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to justify here. And I know Derek Queen is young

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in that context. But with this deal, I think what

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I'm and we have do you talk about the Lonzo

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trade already? We're gonna get to it more with the Calves,

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I think, but we already did talk about it what

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it means for the Bulls. But I'm actually about to

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talk about it again because Heine says excited to see

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giddy second season and with the Bulls one, I'd like

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to know how much is Josh Giddy making in his

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second season. If it's thirty million dollars, you know. But

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the other thing is as one of your better floor spacers.

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And I know we didn't play a ton of minutes.

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Isaacacorl does worse than that, And so for someone like Giddy,

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you want to have enough floor spacing around him. And

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so that's something they need to be cognizant of as

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they move, if they move Vouch, if they certainly they

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move Kobe White like you're gonna weaken your You've weakened

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your shooting ranks here, and again they have Kevin Herder.

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That's also fine for where they're at. But if you're

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trying to optimize uh, Josh Giddy, you would feel better

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about having more floor spacing around there. I think this

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kind of ties in though, Like at a point where

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your question mort which is does this trade do anything

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to clarify your question for you? Or is it still

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the same question?

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Speaker 2: No, it's still do they have a plan? But I

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want to respond to your spacing comment here, because here's

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the thing we have to already right now, heavily assume

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that's the spacing in Chicago is going to dramatically decline

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next season compared to this year. Because again we talked

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about this before, they out of nowhere fired Peter Patten,

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the architect of Chicago's newfound shot profile. And why did

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they fire him? Because he did not agree with the

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way that ar Taurus Carney show was saw things, which

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again underlines that the bulls want.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he was too he was too intelligent for the room.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like correct that. I mean, that's not you're laughing,

243
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but that's not even a joke. That's that's truly irrelevant

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thing to note. And you know they drafted Norris and

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Gay not a shooter, not a natural shooter by any

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stretch of the imagination.

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Speaker 1: A lot of sorry to interject now, but like a

248
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lot of just positional defensive flexibility on this team now

249
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with him and modest Buzzellis and Isaaca Korro of course,

250
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and of course I owe he's still there too.

251
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Speaker 2: But see that's interesting. So you want or not you want,

252
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but like the scene could be looking at a complete

253
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flip of priorities. So this season they were like, Okay,

254
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let's just shoot the shit out of the ball, right,

255
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Let's take a ton of threes. I think they were

256
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third in the league in three point attempts. Like that

257
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was just offense, offense, off push, push, push. Now you're

258
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going to next year and it's probably to be oh,

259
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defense and like minimal floor spacing. So again, what the

260
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fuck is your identity as a team if you flip

261
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flop that way, Because if you go back not to

262
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this year, but last year, it was sort of like,

263
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let's try both at the same time without really being

264
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good at neither. So at some point you're gonna need

265
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to be able to hang your hat on something like

266
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the players will have to know what type of system

267
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are we coming into? What type of system can we

268
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expect on a year to year basis. Now, if you're

269
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just running around taking a million threes to one year

270
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and then going, oh, yeah, we have no spacing next year,

271
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but we'll be good defensively, what type of team are you?

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You're gonna have a major identity crisis.

273
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder it's that's more I want

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to say forgivable, but it's easier to explain if the

275
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Bulls end up and this would be like my question, like,

276
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what are they gonna do with the rest of their

277
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expiring contracts? You mentioned I already, they have Vouch, They

278
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of course have Kobe. So if you're gonna start to

279
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move those guys getting away from last season's identity, yeah,

280
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you'd like players that are going to fit it. But

281
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if you're kind of beginning this quasi rebuild or something,

282
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it's more it's more understandable to say, Okay, we're not

283
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trying to mirror what last team, last year's team did

284
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because we're gonna look so different and we're not necessarily caring.

285
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We care more about the process of the roster building

286
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and the process of what's happening on the court, at

287
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least for this season. But to your general question, or

288
00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:31,600
the question you're posing here, is is that the route

289
00:14:31,679 --> 00:14:34,000
the Bulls are going because they've now traded a bunch

290
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of players that people wanted them to trade. When you

291
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look at Zach Lvine, when you look at DeMar DeRozan,

292
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even to Alex Caruso and and now Lonzo Ball, and

293
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you still don't know, like having traded four of those guys. Yeah,

294
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and still maybe not knowing like what the Bulls is

295
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,799
overarching direction is like that's a little.

296
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Speaker 2: Concern, really really good point. Yes, absolutely, and I think

297
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:02,279
that's the smoking gun right there, because like you're you

298
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,360
want to be able to understand what a team is

299
00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:07,519
trying to do. Like if we just take on the

300
00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:10,279
perspective of a fan base, right they want to know

301
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,039
what should we root for this year? Because like I

302
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,799
grew up a Bulls fan, I know Bulls fans. If

303
00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:18,759
the organization came out and said, look, we're going to

304
00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:21,799
enter into like a fully fledched rebuild, you'll have a

305
00:15:21,919 --> 00:15:25,279
passionated fan base. That's just like great, that's a direction.

306
00:15:25,679 --> 00:15:28,600
We will root for losses, and we will buy tickets

307
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,000
and we will buy jerseys in the meantime to support you,

308
00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:34,000
because that is the right way to go. Fans are

309
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,279
like completely checked out. Like the apathy. The level of

310
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,559
apathy for Bulls fans at this point has never been

311
00:15:41,639 --> 00:15:45,279
higher because like us, they have no idea what to

312
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,440
think of this team. They're like, oh, oh, so Josh

313
00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:50,159
Giddy is so should we root for him to become

314
00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:53,799
a franchise player? Like is that the thing? Is? What

315
00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:56,279
Are we aiming for here the playoffs next year? Are

316
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,759
we aiming for the East Finals? What is the plan?

317
00:15:58,799 --> 00:16:00,720
Where are we going? Are we taking it back step backward?

318
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,480
No one knows and the bulls themselves. This is the

319
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:07,519
most discouraging part at the trade deadline. After the trade

320
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:09,960
deadline that seymore or less came out and said, yes,

321
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,039
we have to formulate a plan. What you're You're played

322
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,080
half a season. You still don't have a plan. You

323
00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:23,240
still don't have anything. Like you don't have a plan, right,

324
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,600
loose cotton, right, and like, oh, yeah, we need eight

325
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,080
or nine good players. Great. Everything is so vague, it's

326
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:36,120
so lazy. It's just I just feel bad for fans

327
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,960
at this point. This this is supposed to be a

328
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,000
global superbrand in all of sports, and it's it's it's

329
00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:44,879
a mom and pop shop that's doing poorly. By the way,

330
00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:46,840
It's not one of those mom and pop shops where

331
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,000
everyone goes down on a Saturday afternoon it goes, oh,

332
00:16:49,039 --> 00:16:50,720
we love to be here. No, it's the mom and

333
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:53,600
pop store that everyone is kind of we don't really

334
00:16:53,919 --> 00:16:56,759
want to go in because Pops is kind of a creepo, right,

335
00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:00,639
Like that's the type of store they have, which why

336
00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:03,240
would you want to try to build something on that?

337
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:06,720
Like they have no foundation, ownership, doesn't give a fuck.

338
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,079
I mean our Chorge Corn show this. I will also

339
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,720
say it's in handcuffs, same with Mark ever Mark Eversley,

340
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,480
Like they are not allowed to do a whole bunch

341
00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:18,759
of things and they get extensions because they're just yes

342
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,759
men as well. That's how the pulls operate. It's it's

343
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,920
very depressing. And to answer my own question, is there

344
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,200
even a plan? Resounding no, A resounding no. There isn't

345
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,559
a plan. There's a concept of a plan, I guess,

346
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,079
and that concept.

347
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 1: Looks there's there's a concept of a loose outline of

348
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,200
a plan or whatever it is. What would be the

349
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,519
bull bullssque trade would be something like Io for McBride

350
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:49,680
or r J Barrett's.

351
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 2: Bulls weigh too much credit.

352
00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:56,519
Speaker 1: Man? But yeah, the what would be the the move

353
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,680
or the inflection point that would make you think, oh, okay,

354
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,839
there is a plan here. Is it trading Kobe White?

355
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,079
Or is it not even that? Because you're waiting to see, okay, well,

356
00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:08,559
what did they trade Kobe White for? And if that's

357
00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:10,680
what you're waiting for, you don't have to get into

358
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,839
specific players picks teams, but is it answer draft picks?

359
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 2: Okay, I have an answer for you straight away. So

360
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,559
they have like a Sack Collins eighteen million dollar expiring contract, right,

361
00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:23,079
they also have the Kobe White contract that's expiring. They

362
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:23,960
shouldn't act is.

363
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 1: Patrick Williams expiring or does he have another decade left

364
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:26,599
on that?

365
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 2: Let me know. But if the Bulls suddenly make a

366
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,240
trade like where they take back long term money for

367
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:38,640
Sack Collins but they take on draft equity, now there's

368
00:18:38,759 --> 00:18:42,039
a sign of oh, yeah, we're willing to punt on

369
00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:46,039
the next few years in order to gather draft picks.

370
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:48,559
The thing is that trade is never going to come

371
00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:50,759
because that's not the way they think. But that would

372
00:18:50,759 --> 00:18:52,880
be a sign. That would be the biggest sign you

373
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,440
could get of them being willing to punt a couple

374
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,559
of years, try to be better and accumulate assets. It's

375
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,880
just not yea going to be a thing. Like the

376
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,200
coaching staff and the front office have actually outlined like, oh,

377
00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:09,279
we're really looking forward to set Collins next year. What well,

378
00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:12,240
that's like what you could get it that's just published.

379
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:15,480
But again, like why even specify it right, and it's

380
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:16,400
just well.

381
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:17,039
Speaker 1: Was it unprompted?

382
00:19:17,079 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

383
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 1: If they just like unsolicitedly brought that, Collins said, yeah,

384
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,480
that's weird.

385
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,319
Speaker 2: Like what what what's next? Like, oh, Kevin herder Man.

386
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: This they're berserk monk in the chat. This would be

387
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,000
more bulls to me? A cominga side and trade for

388
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:34,160
Kobe White that would be like peakle and I guess

389
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,759
Cominga's young, right, but like to have him Boozellis and

390
00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:40,759
j Sangue on the same team would be and like

391
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:44,240
giddy too, Like that would be weird. Now, what if

392
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:47,319
you were getting like a pick from Golden State as well?

393
00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:48,839
Would that make you feel better about it? Or is it?

394
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,720
I don't want to get into Jonathan Kmingo for like

395
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,200
twenty or twenty five million a year?

396
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: No, no, no, like it picks help Because here's the thing.

397
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:57,559
If you trade for Kuminga, he's so young. What is

398
00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:58,640
he twenty twenty three?

399
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's right, I think he's twenty two.

400
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, super young. Still, Like so that means there's

401
00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:05,599
there's still upside, Like I don't I don't think that

402
00:20:06,039 --> 00:20:09,039
Kumenka is going to be untradable. So like you can

403
00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,119
go in there and say, all right, we kind of

404
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:14,240
uh was it Kobe? Who was it? Like the was

405
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,880
he the outgoing player? Yeah? Yeah, all right. You kind

406
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,000
of basically say, okay, we're kind of giving the Kobe

407
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:23,519
White contract new life. We're just doing it with Kumenka instead.

408
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,240
Maybe we just unleash him for a year and he,

409
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,519
I don't know, averages twenty four points a game. Some

410
00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:32,160
team is going to be completely infatuated with him, and

411
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,359
then you flip him for a major profit. The thing is,

412
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,640
do I trust the Bulls to even think that way? No?

413
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,720
I don't, And I'm not trying to be mean. I'm

414
00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:42,839
not trying to be fatitious. I genuinely don't trust them

415
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,480
to then go on and trade Kuminga for something good.

416
00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:51,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what. You shouldn't trust them, but

417
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:52,839
there's no fans out there that should trust them. If

418
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,400
you disagree, Like, if you actually think that the Bulls

419
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,720
are going to start a rebuilder that you like these decisions,

420
00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:00,839
that is fine, Like matters of like differences of opinion

421
00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:04,039
are totally cool. The Bulls have done zero to earn

422
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:06,000
the benefit of the doubt from anybody, though, So like,

423
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:08,200
I don't know how anyone could sit here and say

424
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,279
how you feel is wrong?

425
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: Right, I have a question for you because we have

426
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:21,799
to get into it, Josh Giddy, It's it's such a

427
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:24,920
difficult conversation to have because the fan base is like split,

428
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:28,039
there's a civil war brewing. There is the one camp

429
00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:30,680
who's like, he's not gonna take you anywhere, which I

430
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,599
that's the camp I'm in. And then there's a camp

431
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,279
that basically says, oh, he's he's a franchise leader, he's

432
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:38,640
a future all starry to pay him whatever, he's great.

433
00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: That's a camp.

434
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: Oh big time.

435
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: Does anyone attend?

436
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, you'd be surprised. And here's the sting. I

437
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,000
I will concede that I can also be too pessimistic

438
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,359
at times, So I think the truth is probably somewhere

439
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,200
in the middle. Let's assume the truth Isn't he somewhere

440
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,680
in the middle. If he becomes your primary offensive initiator,

441
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,559
you're you're like, you're basically your heliocentric main offensive hub.

442
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,000
Where the hell does that take you? Long term? And

443
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:15,480
now I'm asking you because I want to get the

444
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,759
perspective of someone else.

445
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know where it takes you, because

446
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,440
it would depend on the context of the team, and

447
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440
I would say, right now, so let's use the Bulls

448
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,480
as they're currently built for next season. It's probably not

449
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:30,839
taking you anywhere super special because is there enough shooting,

450
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,960
Like you still have Kobe White, Nikola Vucevic and having

451
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,599
and Jalen Smith, Like having actual floor spacing at the

452
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,519
five is a pretty big deal still, So there are

453
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:40,400
things that you could do, but like, if he's going

454
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,319
to be the driving force of your entire offense, like

455
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,839
you just need to kind of load up on. Okay,

456
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,920
four shooters are around him, and then we have at

457
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,599
least three positive defenders around him at all times as well.

458
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,440
And I think here's the problem with when it comes

459
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,200
to Josh Giddy and like you can talk about the

460
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,240
money and how the cap is going up and you

461
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:00,720
have to look at it and pages of the cap.

462
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:04,240
I agree with all that stuff, when it's Luka Doncic

463
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,720
and you have to build your team a very specific

464
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:09,079
way to cover for his weaknesses. He is so elite

465
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,119
at the things he does best, it's worth it. It's

466
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,079
the same thing with Nikola Jokic. It's the same thing

467
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,839
with Steph Curry. Josh Getty's not that player like he's

468
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,039
he's a good passer. He's got like when the floater

469
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,519
is going down, that's pretty good. His three point shot

470
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:27,039
has at least it's improved, Like we can say it's improved.

471
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,279
Do you trust it especially in the playoffs? We don't know,

472
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,480
But he is to have someone be to call it,

473
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:37,039
like to have to plan around someone who is at best,

474
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,519
like what a top fifteen point guard like is that?

475
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,480
I'm not even trying to be like an a hole there.

476
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,640
You don't want to be in a situation where you

477
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:47,279
have to build your team around that person. Like that's

478
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,640
someone who, in theory for what they are, should be

479
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,319
coming off the bench, maybe running second units, or you're

480
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:53,759
trying to figure out a way how do we fit

481
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,880
him into the context of our actual franchise player where

482
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,000
maybe you still have four flour spacers on the corporate

483
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,559
you're using Josh Giddy more off the ball for some reason,

484
00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:05,039
or maybe your best player is a big and more

485
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:06,960
of a play finisher. So like if you were to

486
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,480
insert someone different into the vouchual, then okay, then yeah,

487
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,599
But if you're viewing Josh Giddy as okay, well, this

488
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,240
guy's going to be the driving force of our entire offense.

489
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,720
You're putting limitations on yourself in the sense that you

490
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:22,319
have to build your team in a very specific way.

491
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,440
And I think, look, Giannis is another guy you have

492
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,759
to build your team around him in a very specific way.

493
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,720
Now he's more of a battering ram, so it's not

494
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,799
as specific, but he's worth it because, like, he's so

495
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,920
elite on defense in addition to like, yeah, he's just

496
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,920
improved a bunch on offense. And look, if Josh Giddy

497
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,880
turns into like the names I dropped are all NBA

498
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,440
players right now, Josh Getty has never played even close

499
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,160
to that level. So it's fair to wonder if giving him,

500
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,720
let's say, twenty percent of the salary cap is a

501
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,759
good decision in restrict to freegency especially And this is

502
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:55,160
the other thing we got to get off the balls.

503
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,319
At some point, you want to prove that you've changed

504
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,039
or that you're making smarter decisions. Don't negotiate against yourself.

505
00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,640
I want every player to get every single cent that

506
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,039
they can. But last year, who was giving Patrick Williams

507
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:10,960
a contract? There is no offer sheets given out to anybody.

508
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:14,400
There wasn't one coming to Patrick Williams unless you think

509
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,759
the Nets are coming in with an offer sheet for

510
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:19,359
Josh Giddy, and I would argue that they're not going

511
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,839
to like you do. And if they do match it,

512
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,880
if you want, yeah, let the market set it. And

513
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,359
if there's no market, look, that's just if you want

514
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,599
to say. Look, restricted free agency might be borderline in

515
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,920
the eyes of some unethical this was collectively bargained. It's

516
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,640
the way it's set up right now. This is what

517
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,319
the team should be doing. The smart ones anyway, And

518
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:42,200
there's always the element of where you and I are

519
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:44,920
coming from, where everyone else who covers the league, we're

520
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,839
so far removed that it's okay. We probably have a

521
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,319
lower price point. We're gonna squeeze them this hard diplomatically,

522
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:52,799
you probably have left it.

523
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:59,079
Speaker 2: Danny men just said that the Nets just drafted.

524
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: For anyone who's not watching, Danny Metton says, the Nets justreptioned.

525
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,599
Speaker 2: Like three kidding. He's not wrong, that's me.

526
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,559
Speaker 1: You know what. The yegor the Yegort Demon comes to

527
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,680
Josh Giddy have made me uneasy and I love because

528
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,359
I love Yegort Demon. Look, that's just my point is

529
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:17,960
if you the bulls need to still prove that they're

530
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,759
going to change. And so I think that Josh Giddy's

531
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,799
even if you're not going to make another trade, like,

532
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,880
let's see you handle the Josh Giddy negotiation properly. And so, no,

533
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,960
he's not gonna sign for ten million dollars a year.

534
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:31,799
But why is this someone who's getting noticeably more than

535
00:26:31,839 --> 00:26:34,880
eighteen or twenty a year based off what he does? Like,

536
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:35,960
why is he worth more?

537
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 2: Contract would be fine?

538
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,039
Speaker 1: Right? Like why is he worth more than fifteen even

539
00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:42,559
fifteen percent of the salary cap right now? Like I

540
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,680
just don't especially relative to the market. That's where That's

541
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,799
where I'm at with him. I think he could still

542
00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:51,079
be Look, I think he was useful for them last year.

543
00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:53,039
I just don't think that he's a poll star, which

544
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:54,359
is that's not an insult.

545
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,039
Speaker 2: And that's why I wanted to get your take because

546
00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:01,039
I agree I do thing. And it's the roster construction

547
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,160
specifically where I think you just you paint yourself into

548
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,880
a corner. If you turn Josh Kidy into like you know,

549
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,279
if you're trying to shoehorn him into being your best player,

550
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,359
it's you just can't like you're giving up so much flexibility.

551
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,119
You're right, we need to get off the bulls because

552
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,440
this is just becoming too depressive. Depressive.

553
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,279
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the other team involved in a Lonzo

554
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:24,400
Ball trade, the Cleveland Cavaliers, so we can get to

555
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,519
my question first, because I decided to make my question

556
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,960
about the Lonzo Ball trade. Uh, is Lonzo Ball to

557
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,519
you more enough of a I don't even want to

558
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:34,880
know it, like maybe it's a rotation upgrade, but enough

559
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,759
of a depth preserver? And we know that Sam Merrill

560
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,759
is coming back or do you think that there will

561
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:43,079
be more moves to follow? And there are layers to

562
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,920
this because the calves are still they're deeper into the

563
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,240
second Aprin now because let's say, look, Lonzo and Isaaca

564
00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:51,880
Korra were a wash. Basically, Lonzo's a little bit cheaper

565
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,640
next season. But now you're bringing back Merrill. I think

566
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,720
it was what three for thirty eight was that his deal?

567
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,079
Speaker 2: Or was it four forty eight?

568
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: I think four for thirty eight, So you're bringing him,

569
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,319
You're like twenty million bucks or more like into the

570
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,720
second apron at this point, do you think that the

571
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:09,839
Lonzo ballfit. What do you just how do you feel

572
00:28:09,839 --> 00:28:11,680
about it for the Cavs, especially when view do the

573
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,240
lens of okay Ti Jerome.

574
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: Is clearly leaving. I actually gave them an a over

575
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:21,319
at Yahoo Sports now with the caveat that he plays right,

576
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,240
so that's the thing. He played what thirty five games

577
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:29,359
this season, so the availability is still a big, big question.

578
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,079
I decided to be optimistic and just kind of looked

579
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,440
at it through the perspective of what kind of player

580
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:39,640
are they getting because he moved surprisingly well this season

581
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:44,759
after coming back. And someone might correct me if I'm wrong,

582
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:48,559
but isn't he playing with on like a cadaver's knee,

583
00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,880
Like didn't he get like a knee transplant from I

584
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,279
think so, which is like crazy to think about. But

585
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,359
he moved very, very well. He's still so intelligent out there,

586
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:02,920
and you can see it in the way that he

587
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:05,559
approaches the game. You can see it on out of

588
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:08,880
bounds plays like he's a thinker. And I think the

589
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,720
Cavs are going to appreciate someone who coming from the

590
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,079
second unit, again depending on Ealth, who just knows how

591
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:18,920
to set guys up, who isn't really shot hungry. This

592
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,279
isn't a dig on Ti Jerome. I thought j Tie

593
00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:25,599
Jerome was wonderful, but I do think Lonso has more

594
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,759
buttons to push in many ways where he can scale back,

595
00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:31,839
he can scale up, he can do all these sorts

596
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:36,720
of things. Defensively, he's switchable. He's a great form presence

597
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:39,799
and playmaker. He's a solid rebounder. He'll make these crazy

598
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:42,079
out that passes like he's a really really good he's

599
00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:45,640
got great court vision. Actually, so I don't hate it.

600
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,359
I actually love it quite a bit. Pending he's on

601
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,720
the floor now, you're asking me if they were going

602
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:55,119
to make additional moves with the tax bill there and

603
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,720
like over the second aprin I think they're probably just

604
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,839
gonna make Craig Porter Junior at their first point guard and.

605
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: Call that a day, which might be fine. And also

606
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:07,119
you could just make Lonzo your third string point guard.

607
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,680
And it just played like a lot of full court

608
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:12,559
stuff because not last year in Chicago, but like he's

609
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,759
someone who will up your transition rate. And for the

610
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,240
Cleveland Cavaliers specifically, I know they did play faster last

611
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:21,359
year when you're looking at some of their base lineups,

612
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,119
but they still finished Like when you're looking in transition.

613
00:30:24,519 --> 00:30:26,759
They were in the I think the fifteen percent tile

614
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:30,079
of transition frequency. Overall, they're you know, the lineup with

615
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,599
Strus and then the four stars that got out in

616
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:34,400
transitioned like a pretty good amount, which is some of

617
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,079
their core lineups after did not. Lonzo can come in

618
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:38,799
and he if he's on the floor and he's healthy,

619
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:40,759
he will continue to make sure that you do that

620
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,559
and so you get your floor space and doesn't need

621
00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:44,480
to be on the ball. He's big enough to play

622
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,440
with Garland or Mitchell. I think that so that gives you, Yeah,

623
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,160
you're like kind of it feels like you're you have

624
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,319
the same amount of guards as last year, and like

625
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:54,519
that's almost kind of fine, Like you didn't need more

626
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,599
than that if you're assuming, because look at the end

627
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,319
of the day, if Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland aren't

628
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:02,400
healthy like you, you're not going to be close to

629
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,200
the peak version of yourself. Anyway. I love this trade

630
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:08,359
for them because I was not in Isaaca Korro guy.

631
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,640
Like defensively sure, now when you look at this team, it's, man,

632
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,039
it feels like there are fewer bodies that could defend wings.

633
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,039
It's really just you know, Max Strus is held up sometimes.

634
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,519
But you have DeAndre Hunter who kind of made this

635
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:21,599
trade possible a little bit like to where you felt

636
00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:23,359
like you could give up Isaaca Corro and then of

637
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,759
course if Dean Wade is healthy. So it's weird a

638
00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:27,480
lot of their role players. It's not so much with

639
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:29,680
the stars, even though Darius Garland is dealt with all

640
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,720
these like I feels like freak injuries at this point,

641
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,599
that dude, we need to get the stats on how

642
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,519
many times he's hit in the face for thirty six minutes.

643
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:38,079
It's got to lead the league, or at least come

644
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,519
close to it. But I love the Lonzo fit offensively

645
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:44,440
because I just think he can give them a change

646
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,720
of cadence option. And yeah, I think ty Jerome would

647
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,000
have been better. Is better. Excuse me when you want

648
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,599
to slow things down in the half court run a

649
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,839
more traditional offense, but like you have Darius Garland and

650
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,920
Nonovan Mitchell now Evan Mobley by the way, Like if

651
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,599
you need to slow things down and run some more

652
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,880
methodical sets, those are the guys you go to. And

653
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,640
so I like, like, Lonzo is gonna be the better defender.

654
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,160
And I think because of the threat level. He poses

655
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,440
away from the ball and maybe just if he grabs

656
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,119
a rebound or is able to get you know, throw

657
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,240
a hit ahead pass or he's catching a hit ahead pass,

658
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:15,599
like that's good. I think that'll help you more in

659
00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:18,319
the playoffs. Because ty Jerome went through some like really

660
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,880
rough moments in the playoffs this year. That's not to

661
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,839
say that he himself will not continue to get better,

662
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,359
but like to just have this option on this team

663
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,960
to where I honestly think that maybe you haven't improved

664
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,400
your defense because you've lost Isaaca Corro, but you now

665
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:35,559
have exchanged. Let's say, I don't want to call isaacle

666
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,880
Corro one white player because he did hit his threes

667
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,359
last year, but like Lonzo, Ball's decidedly a two way player.

668
00:32:41,839 --> 00:32:43,920
And so just to have more of those guys on

669
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,240
the roster where Ty Jerome and Isaaca Corro were not

670
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,640
decided the two way players, and so to just bring

671
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,960
this guy in. And look, because you're Cleveland and you're

672
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,079
so deep, and you have a Craig Porter junior, you

673
00:32:54,119 --> 00:32:56,400
have Sam Merril. You can also just go with more

674
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,039
jumbo lineups if you really want to, where Garland and

675
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:01,640
Mitchell or the point, and you play Strus and Hunter

676
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,319
with Mobley and Allen, you just have the depth to say, yeah,

677
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,240
Lonzo could play fifteen minutes a game, that's fine with us.

678
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:09,880
I love this trade for them, And it's not even

679
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,720
to say, like this comes at the expense of the Bulls,

680
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:14,039
even though I don't necessarily love it for them, as

681
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:16,279
we said, we understand it for them. I love this

682
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,359
trade for Cleveland, And yes it comes with the caveat

683
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,880
of his health, but you have to assume that they

684
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,400
have information on his health, like and he was available

685
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,400
at points, let like for him even take the floor

686
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,920
last season was really cool, And so I think the

687
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,119
workload he would have to shoulder in Cleveland, at least

688
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:35,880
offensively is even smaller probably than it ever would have

689
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,559
been in Chicago. And they just have the flexibility to

690
00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:43,480
manage his workload like better than a lot of other

691
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000
like maybe contenders would. But like, you don't trade to me,

692
00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:48,319
you don't trade for Lonzo Ball unless you're prepared to say, hey,

693
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:50,640
he might miss some time, we're not going to play

694
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,799
him like over twenty minutes per game ever. But I mean,

695
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:56,000
like he rocked up seven was it seven hundred and

696
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:59,799
seventy seven minutes last year in thirty five appearances, Like,

697
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,799
I'm pretty optimistic. If he's healthy, this is I would

698
00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:05,960
say this is an a plus plus trade for Cleveland.

699
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,679
Speaker 2: And there's another components of this, Jalen Syson. I don't

700
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,480
I'm just I'm just kidding what. It's just.

701
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:21,199
Speaker 1: They were they were all about uh last year when

702
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,519
he was drafted, like, oh, this is like a supercharged

703
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:25,519
carous LeVert and I just love because I do the

704
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:27,400
same thing with rookies. I fall in love with Where's

705
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,559
just we're ready to just throw around these hat pazards

706
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,440
like Karslvert's been an NBA player for like a decade

707
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,119
and we're just dude's gonna be so much better than him.

708
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: I love how you said that, so like you sold it.

709
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,079
Speaker 1: I was like, look, if you you don't know this,

710
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,239
but if you go back to my elementary school yearbook,

711
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:45,559
they ask questions and then under your photo it says,

712
00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:47,360
what do you want to do for a living? I

713
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,800
had actor slash professional basketball player?

714
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: Okay, great, all right, doesn't know, but like I feel

715
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,239
pretty confident and just stepping his men. It's up a

716
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,760
little bit in he spent a Coral, like I you

717
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,239
know that that relationship had like run its course, and

718
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,679
that's not I'm not I'm not low on a Coral.

719
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:11,239
I actually think he was under utilized. I think they

720
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,320
could have used it more, but the writing was on

721
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,599
the wall. So for them to pivot off of that contract,

722
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,960
get something useful in return, and now that spot open

723
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:22,719
up opens up for a guy who was selected in

724
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,039
the first round last year, that's a win. I actually

725
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:29,360
I didn't even include that in in my Yahoo piece

726
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:32,360
about this trade. I should have because I didn't just think, all.

727
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: Right, well, what's in the podcast now so you can

728
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,280
go add it in shout out Frank immediately.

729
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm like you, I'm just not particularly worried

730
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,639
about their debt at all.

731
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,639
Speaker 1: They've preserved it as far as like if you lose

732
00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:50,199
tied Jerome, like, you're just you're probably just as deep

733
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:53,280
as you were last year, provided that Lonzo Ball is healthy.

734
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:56,400
And I think sort of the question here is they've

735
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,480
now decided he said that they're going to go into

736
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,639
the tax as my dogs go off in the background,

737
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,000
but not the tax the second apron, But like, is

738
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:07,719
that gonna hold? And it's you know, you kind of

739
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,599
look at Max Drewson DeAndre Hunter as the guys that

740
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,639
if they're gonna do something like that's how you would

741
00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:16,320
save money. But at this point, just like with the

742
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,519
lack of cap flexibility, like floating around out there, like

743
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:21,880
none of those guys just fit into the mid level exception.

744
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,039
So unless you're planning just dumping Lonzo ball off and

745
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:25,760
you're still in the second apron at the end of

746
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,079
the day, I like what this signals to me is

747
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:30,760
that the Cavs are gonna go into the second April

748
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,679
for at least a year. And if you're gonna pick

749
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:34,719
a year, I actually think that the East is gonna

750
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,199
be more competitive than people think with the moves that

751
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,719
Atlanta has made and could still make Desmond Baine in Orlando.

752
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:43,280
So yeah, you're subbing out Boston and Indie, but maybe

753
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,360
there's two other teams. And look, Philly might be healthier.

754
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,079
We make jokes all the time, but like there is

755
00:36:48,119 --> 00:36:50,639
a like at least a small chance that they're healthier

756
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:51,920
or make some type of other move.

757
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:52,679
Speaker 2: Uh.

758
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: The Pistons could get better and add stuff too, and

759
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,440
we're about to talk about them in in a minute. Uh,

760
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:02,320
So I I like the Calves though picking next season

761
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,800
as all right, Boston's down like relative to what Boston's

762
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,440
supposed to be did over Indiana, Like yeah, like this

763
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:11,000
is we're gonna go, like this is the year to

764
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:12,599
go into the second Apron four. Now if they turn

765
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:14,559
around and trade like Darius Garland and shave off a

766
00:37:14,559 --> 00:37:17,840
bunch of money, I will stand corrected. That's the other

767
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,880
thing I did see. By the way, I always I

768
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,119
think that there's this, especially reflexively, there is this idea

769
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,719
or this urge to make every move even when it

770
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,239
doesn't involve these major stars about something bigger. And I

771
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,360
kind of saw, oh, you're getting Lonzo? Is that because

772
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,360
they're gonna trade Darius Garland. I did not like that

773
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,840
is not anything that like anyone who's watched a Lonzo

774
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,639
over the past few well last season and then before

775
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:45,440
he was hurt, like understands that he is not Like

776
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,760
you don't put him in the Darius Garland roll. You

777
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,880
are a worst team if you put him in the

778
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:50,960
Darius Garland role.

779
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:54,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's wild. Though forty five games, like seventy

780
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,440
games played total over the past four seasons.

781
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: Now, maybe maybe I'm following LaVar Burner on social media

782
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,480
and I could that have been Yeah, I mean he's

783
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,079
probably pot he wanted No, he wants LaMelo on the Clippers.

784
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,199
He probably wants both of those his kids on the Clippers.

785
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:13,400
But I think but I to back to my point

786
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,039
there of I do think Lonzo is enough of a

787
00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:19,000
rotation upgrade or at least preserver. I don't know if

788
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:21,280
more moves will follow. I think this is a team,

789
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,239
like if you're a wing, this might be a team

790
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,000
that you'd be interested in taking a pit like, oh,

791
00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:28,000
I'll sign for the minimum because they do kind of

792
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:31,360
have like minutes available if they wanted. But like they're

793
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,039
kind of like this team as currently constructed, they can

794
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,840
absolutely just win the title and they should probably be

795
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,880
the favorites to come out of the East. That's right

796
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:39,400
now next.

797
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: Season, Oh absolutely absolutely, and.

798
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: That's all because of Lonzo, Who's gonna replace Darius Garland

799
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,559
the heir apparent there, And that's how much better it

800
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:47,840
they are.

801
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,559
Speaker 2: But and so who are they getting for Garland? Just

802
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:53,480
to with this take this fantasy.

803
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:58,159
Speaker 1: Patrick Williams, Maybe, like I just I love this team.

804
00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:00,000
I loved them last year obviously the way to see

805
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:03,320
and ended was a disappointment, but I think it took it.

806
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,440
You can look at this and say, because we love

807
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,599
the Lonzo move, but it does take just like it

808
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,639
took a level of gaul to go out and get

809
00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:12,159
DeAndre Hunter when you're kind of rolling during the regular season,

810
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:15,039
I think it takes guts to say yes. I know

811
00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:16,920
owners were the ones that push for the second apron.

812
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,559
I'm not gonna, you know, pat Dan Gilbert on the back,

813
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,679
although to his credit, he's by and Lar's been willing

814
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:24,039
to pay when it comes to rosters. Maybe not so

815
00:39:24,119 --> 00:39:26,920
much with behind the scenes personnel on the front office,

816
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,559
but like at a time when teams are running from

817
00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:33,400
the second apron, they're recognizing that, hey, it probably feels

818
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,079
like teams are gonna be willing to stay in it

819
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:36,800
for a year. You just kind of have to pick

820
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,400
the year, and they've decided that next year is the year.

821
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,599
That Again, that's my read on the situation right now,

822
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:42,559
and I commend it.

823
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not the wrong read.

824
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:48,159
Speaker 1: No, well I don't think it's but like again, we

825
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,239
say this and then we turn around. You know, I

826
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:51,840
was talking about it, like I think the Blazers should

827
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,119
extend Anthony Simons like they really need a shooting and

828
00:39:54,119 --> 00:39:57,519
then they turn around and they trade Drew Holliday, So anything.

829
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: I can't keeps Dan like it's gonna NBA. We just

830
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,719
have to get our takes off.

831
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well, then let me fire off some stuff here.

832
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:08,760
I think Craig Porter Junior is going to be who's

833
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,519
like a like Steve Nash on steroids without the jump shot?

834
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:14,719
What type of player is that? It's the take we're

835
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,559
gonna fire off? You have anything left on them? I

836
00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:18,360
think it's clear they're going to stay. At course, I

837
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,400
don't even know what were you actually concerned by, Like

838
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,400
the murmurings that like would they look at moving Allen

839
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,199
and Garland seem to be the names that pop up

840
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:26,599
the most.

841
00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: No, well nervous, No, not not really curious.

842
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: I guess, like, I don't know why that would make

843
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:33,480
you nervous.

844
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: I was pretty I was pretty dismissive of those because

845
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,880
I just everything pointed towards them actually coming back with

846
00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:44,480
mostly the same court, because why wouldn't you, you know,

847
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:52,599
Dame Achueles injury, Tyrus Halliburton unfortunately Aquelus injury, Jason tATu wait,

848
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,079
Jason Tatum with the aquelus injuries.

849
00:40:55,199 --> 00:40:57,639
Speaker 1: I think we should just assume anyone who's injured has

850
00:40:57,679 --> 00:40:59,920
an achilles issue until told otherwise.

851
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:03,519
Speaker 2: Right, So, where's number zero and are in the Eastern Conference?

852
00:41:03,639 --> 00:41:07,400
Like get scared at Kobe White, but no, not Gone Wood.

853
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:07,920
That doesn't happen.

854
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: Don't don't put that in.

855
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,039
Speaker 2: Don't don't worry.

856
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: They're using AI to fix it, to get to the

857
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,719
bottom of it, and I think we're gonna find that

858
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,880
science and artificial intelligence miraculously align with the NBA's business interests.

859
00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 2: Right.

860
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: That's that's that's my prediction. I know it's shocking and

861
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,440
out there, but.

862
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:28,519
Speaker 2: But you know, given those injuries, I just never took

863
00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:31,920
it seriously because obviously Calves brass are going to sit

864
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,000
there and look at the market and and look at

865
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,199
the like the competitive field they're going to go. Where

866
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,480
do we rank ourselves right now? Probably fairly highly. Like

867
00:41:41,519 --> 00:41:45,039
we can we can get through a series against this team,

868
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,639
the Pacers without Halbert. We can get through a series

869
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,559
against Milwaukee because it's Giannis and fifty feet of crap.

870
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:57,079
We can get through. Sorry, I mean, let's just be

871
00:41:57,159 --> 00:41:57,760
real about it.

872
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: We can maybe sure, I would like to have a

873
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:04,079
conversation about Ryan Rollinds the screen navigation before Ryan Rawlands.

874
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: You know what that is fair? I like Ryan Rollins too,

875
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:10,320
so they have Giannis Ryan Ryan Rawlins. That's a tough

876
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,920
thing for me to say. And then forty six feet

877
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:13,519
of crap.

878
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,599
Speaker 1: Anything else on the Calves who I were an agreement?

879
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:19,480
I mean, what would be the team if you had

880
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,119
to pick other than the Calves to be favored to

881
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:23,480
win the East next season? Again relative to the the

882
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,440
Achilles landscape, let's call it.

883
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: God, I have them so far ahead, So like the Knicks, maybe.

884
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 1: If they hire Jenny Busick as their head coach, I'll

885
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,280
pick them to win the Eastern Conference. That's what I'm

886
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,119
got with him. But it's it's probably the Knicks, or

887
00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:46,400
uh the Knicks or maybe Orlando.

888
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ran, Yeah, I still you want to.

889
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: See what that offense still turns into because they're still

890
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,440
kind of punting on the whole like floor general aspect.

891
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,639
But yeah, I think it's Cleveland, Orlando and New York

892
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,239
feel like the three And like, I just what do

893
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:00,920
you make of Philly?

894
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,119
Speaker 2: Yeah?

895
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: If you tell me that Paul George Dwell and beating

896
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,119
Tyree's Maxie playing seventy games together. We can't have a conversation,

897
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:10,280
but I can almost guarantee that's not happening. Let's talk

898
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,760
Detroit Pistons more. What's your ques with that? We have

899
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,840
no move to report for the Pistons, right, let's check

900
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,280
our phones. No, we're good at this point. What's your

901
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:20,400
question for the Pistons?

902
00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 2: So? What should they do? At Center? So Jalen Duran

903
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,920
love the guy truly, truly I do. He's young, he's

904
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,159
still developing, he's fairly raw still, and it feels as

905
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:40,440
though they're ready to turn on the accelerator a little bit.

906
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,280
So I guess the question is more than just the

907
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,639
Center part, but I think he's like the epicenter of

908
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,960
it all. Do you stay the course here and just

909
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:54,519
trust them, sorry, trust the process and go into that

910
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,840
or do you actually try to pivot off of someone

911
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,960
like Jalen Duran and go for some more established to

912
00:44:01,039 --> 00:44:02,360
kind of push in your chips a little bit.

913
00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: So I guess what's tough about that is you just

914
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,599
kind of saw, I understand Jalen Duran's better, how much

915
00:44:12,639 --> 00:44:14,719
more if you were to trade Jalen Duran right now,

916
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,559
just Jalen Durn it's not part of a bigger package.

917
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:20,159
How much more are you getting for him than the

918
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:23,639
Hornets got for Mark Williams, which was number twenty nine

919
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,320
and then a distant first round pick. That's I mean,

920
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,719
it's shaping up to be in the twenties well.

921
00:44:28,559 --> 00:44:32,119
Speaker 2: Right, and see they it wouldn't be a pix oriented package.

922
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:35,239
It would have to be some type of accelerator, right

923
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:40,440
in terms of someone who's older, a little bit more experienced.

924
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:43,000
But again, it makes me sound like I'm down on

925
00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:45,920
Jalen Durna, which I'm not. It's just a question of

926
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,960
where are the Pistons in their thinking? Like, that's what

927
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,320
I want to know, because if they're cool just kind

928
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,400
of returning with the same young core Kade during hopefully

929
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,480
more of Ferdy games out of Jade and Ivy, you

930
00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:02,039
know what I run with that. I'm okay with that.

931
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:04,480
I think that takes some balls and I would appreciate that.

932
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:07,000
I would applaud that because that means they trust their product.

933
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,280
That means they expect that product to grow collectively. So

934
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:12,679
I'm I'm a fan of that. I kind of hope

935
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,639
that's not kind of I actually hope that's what happens.

936
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,320
But I'm asking the question because you forced me to

937
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:19,920
ask a question.

938
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: Well, it's also it's a valid question because he is

939
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,039
extension eligible and their center position is weird because it's

940
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,559
you know them not This is kind of not talked

941
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,559
about enough. But Isaiah Stewart played nineteen minutes during that

942
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:35,719
first round series because he was banked up, and do

943
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,840
you trust him to remain healthy? How many minutes can

944
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,440
he log? And he's not necessarily providing a floor spacing

945
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,800
element from the five? Would you prefer any more? Not anymore?

946
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,480
I mean he again, the volume was so I've had

947
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,400
this discussion with Pistons Sands and our discord and they

948
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:50,920
rightfully pointed out, like the volume just wasn't high enough

949
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,719
to be like this huge difference maker, But like, are

950
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,719
you bringing back Paul Reid? So they do have and

951
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,880
we know they were interested in nas Reed Mark. I

952
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,639
think it was Jake Fisher and Mark Stein had it

953
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:02,719
over at the Stein line that they were planning to

954
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,119
be in on him. So, I mean, and they have

955
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:07,400
flexibility and they'd certainly have assets to do a sign

956
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,119
and trade if they want. They could get cap space

957
00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:13,119
if they want. Yeah, the center's fascinating, But for Jalen

958
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,239
Duran specifically, if you're gonna keep him, which I think

959
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,159
is the most likely outcome, I guess if you're trying

960
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:20,079
to make like a and that'll stuff on the toes

961
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,119
of my question, like a really big trade. He's someone

962
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:26,000
that you would consider including are you what would you

963
00:46:26,079 --> 00:46:29,239
be willing to pay him an extension before you say no,

964
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,079
we'll take it to restrict it free agency.

965
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: Oh that's a good question, Dan. I hadn't thought about

966
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,119
like the specific extension number for Jalen Duran yet, mostly

967
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:46,599
because I kind of probably question they find common ground.

968
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think he's gonna look at the nas

969
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,920
Read deal, Yeah, the Nicholas Claxton deal. Yeah, maybe even

970
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,800
the Yaka Perl contract. Like just as Okay, these centers

971
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,559
are making a minimum of twenty million, but Claxton and

972
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:04,079
Naseried those are and like Claxton's probably more. They're all

973
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,800
different players like these like these they're not similar guys

974
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,880
at all, but like Claxton in terms of all right,

975
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,079
he's not a floor spaceer, but like Jaylender and really

976
00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:14,639
good passer, Claxton switches like they do things that are

977
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:18,559
not like anomalists or super valuable at the position I

978
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:23,800
think like eight, I think that's the number where uh,

979
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,039
I think that's them where I'd be like, okay, yeah,

980
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:27,880
I'd feel pretty good about that, because what does that

981
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,440
end up being, like as a percentage of the salary cap?

982
00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:33,239
Is like, is that even fifteen? Like so that's just like,

983
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,880
you know, I think that's super fine. So like that's

984
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,679
where I end up. So yeah, I don't but anything

985
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:41,480
more than thirteen.

986
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: Like this season, Jared Allen was at twenty straight and

987
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:47,880
that was twelve point nine percent of the cap, and

988
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,920
that's the cab is only going to go up, so

989
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,119
it's gonna be like twelve percent of the cap next year.

990
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I put to that and like for a

991
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,400
starting center, that's actually probably really good. So I think

992
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:01,719
four and one hundred or if you want it to

993
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,079
go five and one twenty five because he is just

994
00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:08,199
so young, I wouldn't hate it. Right, It's so that's

995
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,239
actually sixteen percent of twenty five million is sixteen percent,

996
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,440
so twenty million would be yeah, then you absolutely do that.

997
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,880
I think twenty five would be. I might think about

998
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,880
it because twenty is thirteen percent, but beyond that like

999
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,480
if it's like if it's twenty five, I don't even

1000
00:48:23,519 --> 00:48:25,199
I might just take it to restricted free and gaway

1001
00:48:25,199 --> 00:48:27,840
because I'm sitting here saying, who's giving him that offer?

1002
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,400
And I just think that he's an imperfect center and

1003
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,199
that you're not. I think one of the worst things

1004
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,039
you can do is overreact to that season where it

1005
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:38,519
feels like you popped and are onto something. You have

1006
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:40,559
to take more of a measured approach to it. And

1007
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:42,199
that's not to say that Jalen Jurn can't be a

1008
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,360
part of the grander plan, but like, let's see him

1009
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,760
be as good defensively like his highest hies, Like let's

1010
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,440
see him package those together for even longer stretches this year.

1011
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,719
Does he improve to the Pistons overall improve? So, I think, honestly,

1012
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,960
unless he comes in and is kind of looking at

1013
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,280
the center market and do I think that I'm gonna

1014
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,320
get more than nas reader Claxton is willing to go

1015
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,920
for for eighty, I don't know that I'm if I'm

1016
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,599
the Pissons, I think I'm taking it to RFA.

1017
00:49:07,159 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: It's crazy. It's the thing that he's already extension eligible

1018
00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:14,039
and he's twenty one he's gonna sign and like, if

1019
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:16,480
he gets an extension offer and signs it, he'll sign

1020
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:19,400
it at age twenty one, Jesus.

1021
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,039
Speaker 1: Which is why you're super comfortable going five years on

1022
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:26,960
an extension two easily. This is this might be one

1023
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,719
of the more fascinating rookie classes, Like when you're looking

1024
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,039
at like their extensions, like that is Mark Williams gonna get.

1025
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:37,360
There's just a lot of good players, but it's oh

1026
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,239
do you sign them to? There's not a lot of

1027
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,880
no brainer, Like there's not a bunch of j Dubbs

1028
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,800
and chet Holmgren's floating around out there. My question though,

1029
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,679
for this team more how aggressive will they and should

1030
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:54,079
they be looking to make upgrades especially via trade? Because

1031
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,239
I say especially via trade because I think that they're

1032
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,440
going to and operating over the cap is too easy.

1033
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:02,760
Just carry the holds for Tim Hardaway junior, Dennis Shruder.

1034
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:05,960
You can probably keep Malik Beasley using the mid level,

1035
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:08,280
and so after that, it's right, maybe you could use

1036
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,760
the they should have the biannual available to them, but

1037
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,880
a trade would be the primary vehicle, it looks like

1038
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,960
through which they would make the most improvement. So the

1039
00:50:18,039 --> 00:50:20,840
question to me is twofold. How aggressive do you think

1040
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,320
they should be and if they were to make a trade, like,

1041
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,679
what is the archetype of player that they should be targeting?

1042
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I wouldn't hate a more offensively minded

1043
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,320
wing who can also go up and play the four. Oh.

1044
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: I seem to remember someone saying that you hated this

1045
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,119
as a lowry marketing team when I brought it up

1046
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:46,360
the other day, Did.

1047
00:50:46,159 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: They say I hated that you did not like it?

1048
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: And it was yesterday in fact, sir, when we were

1049
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,239
talking about the Northwest Division.

1050
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 2: I thought, I said, that was one of the teams

1051
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,119
where I could see it.

1052
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:59,519
Speaker 1: I thought you said you didn't like it. You said

1053
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:01,559
you said you wouldn't do it if it costs you.

1054
00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:05,679
Speaker 2: J Now you're actually making making me like rethink everything there.

1055
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,480
But like, okay, I think it's the salary that bothered me. Also,

1056
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:12,199
I don't like Laurie as a three man that's I

1057
00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:14,800
said that for sure, Like this guy would have to

1058
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,599
be primarily three man driven. I think, uh And again,

1059
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,159
ousar Thompson, I think that would be also tough because

1060
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:26,920
he serves minutes right, So I wouldn't like going in

1061
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,760
and just kind of signing or sorry, trading for someone

1062
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,840
in that spot. But I do think they need one

1063
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,360
more piece, and especially someone who can score the ball.

1064
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,960
Right now, who is that player? There is no one

1065
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:45,199
really on the market that's available. Yeah, I bet you.

1066
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:47,079
Speaker 1: Could guess where I'm going. I would totally consider a

1067
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:50,280
Lamlall trade if it's out there. Julius Randall, No, thank you?

1068
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 2: What were you saying, lamentle ball?

1069
00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, him and Exicade.

1070
00:51:53,199 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: That totally works as a three four okay I specific.

1071
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm just talking. He wanted a score. I mean,

1072
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,440
you know what would be interesting. He's not gonna give

1073
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,480
you as much on ball stuff, But this could be

1074
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:08,000
a Cam Johnson team would be a really good game.

1075
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,079
Speaker 2: That's a good name. I was actually toying around with

1076
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:13,880
the idea of Trey Murphy, but then I remember we've

1077
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,519
already shipped him to Okay. See, but like Cam Johnson

1078
00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:18,079
is a good.

1079
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: One, he also feels gettable, whereas I just Trey Murphy

1080
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,239
does not feel gettable at this moment.

1081
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,679
Speaker 2: But that's the type of player, right Like, he's a bit.

1082
00:52:29,039 --> 00:52:31,039
Speaker 1: If this guy's available, And I think this leads into

1083
00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:34,599
the discussion of like this would be ultra aggressive, like

1084
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:36,639
if Jalhn Brown's available, do you like him on this

1085
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,760
team or no? And I think that's with the caveat

1086
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,079
of knowing. Okay, Asar Thompson is clearly going out in

1087
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:44,920
this deal, at least one of him and rob Ron Holland.

1088
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: I would assume, I'm I'm I'm so the wrong person

1089
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,000
to ask that because I'm not a Jim Brown guy.

1090
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: I just think it's too soon to make a trade

1091
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,880
like that too, like the cost it would take to

1092
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,159
get Jahn Brown, it's they have all their future picks,

1093
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,079
but like you're I'll be looking at I would say

1094
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:05,440
a minimum of two from Duran j andn Ivy Thompson

1095
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,960
and Holland. Plus you're like your entire drafts Stash Roum

1096
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,519
close to it and.

1097
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,039
Speaker 2: Rich that's just too for me. I'm just curious. And yeah, no,

1098
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:15,400
it's a fair question, but I like, if this has

1099
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,679
been Jalen Brown from two years ago, I probably would

1100
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:21,119
have do.

1101
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: You know what team I feel like they should act like?

1102
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:25,239
And then maybe that would give us an idea of

1103
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,280
like what players might fall into that bucket. Do you

1104
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,880
remember when the Pacers traded for Pascal Siakam. I know

1105
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,280
a lot of people didn't like it, and it was

1106
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,800
three first round picks, but you look at they now

1107
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,559
own one of those first round picks again, but that

1108
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:38,000
first round pick didn't have a ton of value like

1109
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:39,760
the three first they gave up, Like, look at what

1110
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,719
they've turned into. That's the type of like And they

1111
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,840
don't have extra first so it's a little bit weird.

1112
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,760
But like if it's Jade and Ivy and two first

1113
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,199
or Duran and two first and they're protected, Like, that's

1114
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,360
the type of trade that I think could make now,

1115
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,840
not giving up two first and j and Ivy or

1116
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,480
jail for Cam Johnson. That's not what I'm saying, but

1117
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:01,199
like to be opportunity. Just think about someone who's either

1118
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,559
a star or close to it. Maybe they're entering free

1119
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:06,079
agency and they're rolling the dice and you don't think

1120
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:08,599
there's gonna be a huge market, or maybe it's marketing.

1121
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:10,960
Would be a good example where if the Jazz are

1122
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,800
willing to move him, we both agree there's no rush

1123
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,440
to move him, but if they are willing to move him,

1124
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,960
his contract doesn't look so hot in this moment, maybe

1125
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,480
it gets better. Could you come in and get like

1126
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,840
you opportunistically get him for a lower value than you

1127
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,519
would have before he signed this deal.

1128
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,119
Speaker 2: I think I have like an odd ball name for you.

1129
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: Please say it's Jalen Johnson Brandon Ingram. There's a lot

1130
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,079
of talk about like him with the Pistons beforehand.

1131
00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: Oh there, I missed that entirely.

1132
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: Before he was traded to Toronto.

1133
00:54:41,639 --> 00:54:42,519
Speaker 2: Of course, I don't.

1134
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 1: I just don't like it, Like it's I want someone

1135
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,760
who's I want. Yeah, I want someone who can alleviate

1136
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,199
Caid's workload rather than cannibalize it, if that makes any sense.

1137
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,039
Speaker 2: That makes sense, yes, But don't do you think that

1138
00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:00,480
Caid will allow that? It seems like he's a who's

1139
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:01,719
like very much in control.

1140
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,079
Speaker 1: Well, all right, so let's say he is in control.

1141
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:06,480
But like, there are points where Zion was in control

1142
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,360
of New Orleans and it wasn't like no great shakes

1143
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,079
the answer of having Brendan Ingram away from the ball there.

1144
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: Right, But he was in and out of the lineup

1145
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,559
so much. I think that also screwed with the head

1146
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:18,119
of Ingram a little bit. Like I like, I can't

1147
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:19,280
keep like just to.

1148
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: H if you told me that they could get some

1149
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,480
floor spacing at the five and it's Ingram and Caide

1150
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:27,480
surrounded by three shooters or maybe two shooters plus a

1151
00:55:27,519 --> 00:55:30,440
SAR or something. I wouldn't hate that as much, but

1152
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:34,719
like I'm not giving up a first round pick for him,

1153
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,760
Like it's salary, and that's.

1154
00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: What I'm saying trade either.

1155
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're at a point in just sort of their

1156
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,079
cap sheet life cycle where you could do something like

1157
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:48,280
have Brendan Ingram for three years and forty million to pop.

1158
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,519
Basically isn't the end of the world. That wouldn't be

1159
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:53,800
my favorite one, but like that would be an example

1160
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,559
of what the Raptors just did, is they got someone

1161
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,360
who's high impact at the idea of his value. That

1162
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,000
would be the type of opportunity that I think this

1163
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,840
team should be in the market for because they're still

1164
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,679
preserving their asset base moving forward.

1165
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins, Ooh.

1166
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: That'd be interesting. That'd be really really interesting because they

1167
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,880
don't have a lot of or like do they have

1168
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,679
any I Okay, there you go, but like a lot

1169
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,519
of just two way perimeter players. They just don't. They

1170
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:25,440
don't have Like asr is just he's he's two way

1171
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,840
because his offensive decision making. Even with Ron Holland but

1172
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,159
someone who's also like can make threes or like make

1173
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,760
jump shots would be nice. I really like that if

1174
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:35,480
the Heat are kind of.

1175
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 2: Cost you a whole ton, I imagine no.

1176
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: Because if you're the Heat now, they did just resign

1177
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,880
Davion Mitchell, so maybe there's like a disconnect there. But

1178
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,840
if you're the Heat and want cap space next year,

1179
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,320
Andrew Wiggins is a player option, maybe he declines that

1180
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,719
you get cap space, Like Tobias Harris comes off the books,

1181
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,760
like you know that someone who's coming off the books

1182
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:57,559
that would you do? Is sorry, would you do Jade

1183
00:56:57,559 --> 00:56:59,679
and Ivy? And maybe there's other framework there, but Jade

1184
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:01,800
and Ivy in Tobias Harris for Andrew Wiggins or is

1185
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:02,039
that too?

1186
00:57:02,119 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 2: No? No, what this jayden Ivy? Nonsense? No, he stays,

1187
00:57:07,159 --> 00:57:09,400
Then what are you giving up? You're giving up You're

1188
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:10,719
probably relinquishing a pick here.

1189
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's protected, I could probably be talked into it. Yeah,

1190
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,840
I'd abably prefers someone with a little bit more on

1191
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:20,079
ball juice, like off of Kate. But if you're keeping

1192
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:22,079
Jade and Ivy and you can have you know, we

1193
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:24,079
saw them do more stuff with the sar Thompson in

1194
00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:26,320
that role last year or two, So I don't hate

1195
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:26,599
that at all.

1196
00:57:26,639 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: I mean the idea is to turn wigging into a

1197
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,960
third option instead of instead of a secondary option, like

1198
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,159
it would have to be kid Ivy. I guess Thompson

1199
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:40,840
at the three, Wiggins at the four. He's smallple four.

1200
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,679
Speaker 1: And do you think Ivy has a chance of getting

1201
00:57:42,679 --> 00:57:45,079
an extension? He's extension eligible too. I think that one

1202
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:47,880
would probably shock me more than Duran if he got right.

1203
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: Because yeah, it's tough, right, It's because he's he's been

1204
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,360
really been a prisoner of the moment in many ways,

1205
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:59,199
because then he got screwed over by by Money Williams,

1206
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,760
which was just the honest thing, like the in and

1207
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,280
out of the lineup like Herky Jerky, and then this

1208
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,239
year he got injured, missed fifty two games. Like it's

1209
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,400
just it's been a rocky start to his career. And

1210
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:14,480
that's why I'm also a little bit annoyed when I

1211
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:18,519
see people like so aggressively put him in not you

1212
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,920
necessarily although right now, absolutely when you aggressively put him

1213
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:27,719
into trades, because like you know, context is necessary here.

1214
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,000
I think I think there's a good ass player in there.

1215
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,400
I think he needs a shot. I think he needs

1216
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,760
some stability, some stability, and he also needs to be healthy.

1217
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:39,119
Like I hated for him that he missed fifty two

1218
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:41,360
games this year. I hated that for him because he

1219
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:44,400
was finally getting into a role where he was like

1220
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:49,719
beginning to feel more comfortable and boom injury. That sucks, man,

1221
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:53,480
Like I want to see him a full year, No

1222
00:58:53,639 --> 00:58:57,239
money Williams, no Shenanigan's healthy, because I think there's a

1223
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,639
guy in there who could reach a significantly higher level

1224
00:58:59,679 --> 00:59:00,800
than where he said right now.

1225
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: So if you're them, and you already mentioned like where

1226
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,360
you want the position to come from, but you're not

1227
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,480
necessarily targeting someone to be the secondary score type because

1228
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,400
you want to see more of Jade and Ivy before

1229
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,199
you make a declaration on him. I think that's fair.

1230
00:59:13,599 --> 00:59:15,880
Maybe a little risky, just like given how long he's

1231
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,039
been in the league now and if you're looking to

1232
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:21,360
actually make a bump off of last season. But I

1233
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,400
think that's perfectly fair. I honestly don't know where I

1234
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,639
land on je Not. I think he was noticeably better

1235
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,719
last year. I honestly still don't think that he's the

1236
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,320
long term answer. Next decade, especially if it's gonna be

1237
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,480
a guard I think I want someone who's gonna do

1238
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:37,239
more of the like He's had some really good playmaking moments.

1239
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:39,599
I'd like to see him string together more of just

1240
00:59:39,719 --> 00:59:43,000
like the methodical offensive table setting and see if he

1241
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,199
can do that next year, which again, if the Pistons

1242
00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:47,559
are gonna continue to prop up a better spacing environment,

1243
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:48,760
maybe he can.

1244
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: Do side note for it seems that are you know,

1245
00:59:53,639 --> 00:59:56,639
a little bit without an identity. If the league at

1246
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,159
large looks at Jade and Ivy like you do, where

1247
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:04,480
it's like there's a fair level of skepticism that that's

1248
01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:06,119
the guy you kind of go get if you can

1249
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:09,800
get him cheap, right like the Pistons.

1250
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. There. Their timeline horizon, though, is such that I

1251
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,000
don't think that they would just give him up for

1252
01:00:15,119 --> 01:00:16,280
like if you were to trade him as part of

1253
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,079
a bigger package. I think they view him as having

1254
01:00:18,119 --> 01:00:21,320
real value, which again is fair. So it'd be different

1255
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,679
if like there was a sense that the Pistons are

1256
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,800
completely out on him and we just haven't gotten that sense.

1257
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:28,559
I think it's that's probably more so born from a

1258
01:00:28,639 --> 01:00:31,960
lack of information, But I will say right. Well, the

1259
01:00:32,039 --> 01:00:35,280
theoretical to your point though, is just remember like even

1260
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,239
with Tasar Thompson, but especially during and IVY because their

1261
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,119
extension eligible, this front office didn't pick those guys, and

1262
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:44,400
so like that's probably something that could be discussed more

1263
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,719
when you're looking at will they get an extension? Could

1264
01:00:46,719 --> 01:00:49,559
they be involved in trade packages? And it's probably it's

1265
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:51,320
probably fallen by the wayside just because the Pistons were

1266
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,159
good last year, which is like great for them. What

1267
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,119
do you think about I'm like kind of latching onto

1268
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:58,599
the idea of like big man upgrades. What if they

1269
01:00:58,639 --> 01:00:59,880
were the Jabari Smith junior.

1270
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,039
Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be interesting, like not as a replacement for Duran,

1271
01:01:05,119 --> 01:01:05,840
but like as an.

1272
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: Play them together or you know, stat and then stagger them.

1273
01:01:09,519 --> 01:01:11,840
Like give give Jabar a run at the five for sure.

1274
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,320
But he doesn't need to play at the five exclusively, No,

1275
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:14,599
but he.

1276
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: Can he can play a lot of four. I don't

1277
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,280
hate that. I like I would like slightly more ball

1278
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,559
handling from my four. That's why weakens, I think like

1279
01:01:22,639 --> 01:01:23,000
fits in.

1280
01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: So what about another rocket who is available per Kelly

1281
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:27,440
Ico and Cam Whitmore.

1282
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he's more of a two two three but

1283
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:35,360
you know, what are we saying that Thompson can't play

1284
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,559
the four because I'm not saying that I think he can,

1285
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:38,679
Like I'm not.

1286
01:01:38,679 --> 01:01:41,199
Speaker 1: Saying can't either. I mean you're not well because you

1287
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,480
have Thompson knowing if you believe in Ivy's passing, like

1288
01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:45,199
you have enough. Second, because Cam Witmore is not gonna

1289
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:46,599
give you any tertiary passing there.

1290
01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: That's just no, like he's he's a bugget getter.

1291
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,159
Speaker 1: If there was like a we actually did made up

1292
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:56,079
awards this year. We had subscribers submit that categories that

1293
01:01:56,159 --> 01:01:58,679
want to hear, and we statistically did like an all

1294
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,599
black hole and Camp Whitmore I think was like on

1295
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,920
first team or something. So when you were looking at

1296
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:05,159
his pass rate now, but anyway, you.

1297
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:07,719
Speaker 2: Know, I get it. But it's almost unfair to some

1298
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,360
extent because he's only played like what ninety eight games, right,

1299
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,039
and he's played so few minutes total.

1300
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep naming rockets. Go out and get

1301
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,159
read Shepherd. Put him next to Kid Cunningham and watch

1302
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:21,400
it all.

1303
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,519
Speaker 2: See. I mean, look the guy to go for if

1304
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:26,480
you're the like if you're if you're trying to shop

1305
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,000
in Houston it's Tarty Easton, They're not.

1306
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:34,079
Speaker 1: No, I don't think honestly there that's the guy.

1307
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,679
Speaker 2: That's the guy for the Pistons, Like I would love

1308
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:37,480
that addition there.

1309
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: That's you keep naming players that I feel like are

1310
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,400
so implausibly available. Ooh, this is a big one from

1311
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,199
Danny Menton. Now, ty Jerome, if you don't have your

1312
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,639
mid level, it's probably tough to get him. He makes

1313
01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:52,400
some pretty good sense here, a sort of you don't

1314
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,639
have to get rid of Ivy then you can play

1315
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,280
two ball handlers at once all the time. Basically, I

1316
01:02:58,320 --> 01:02:58,760
don't hate that.

1317
01:02:59,719 --> 01:03:03,119
Speaker 2: I like that one. That's that's not bad. What So,

1318
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,840
if it comes down to it, what would you spend

1319
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,440
the non tax emily on ty Jerme or keeping Malik Beasley?

1320
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: I think Molie Beasley's just three point volume and off

1321
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,719
ball motion, and especially because Tidrome is not going to

1322
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,039
be like this monster defensive upgrade. And I actually think

1323
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:20,239
Beasley's been mostly fine relative to mileage Beasley there the

1324
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,320
past two years. So I think it's you spend it

1325
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,920
on keeping Beasley and you kind of hope, like and look,

1326
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,960
their cap situation is such that if you trade, let's

1327
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,800
say they just trade Simoni Fontakio just in a vacuum

1328
01:03:32,119 --> 01:03:34,079
he's making Is he hit seven and a half next

1329
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:36,199
year or just seven eight?

1330
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 2: I think three?

1331
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: He's at eight point three? All right, basically even better,

1332
01:03:40,519 --> 01:03:42,559
Like you can trade for a players making more than

1333
01:03:42,599 --> 01:03:48,039
sixteen million bucks just by moving Fontechio. Then, so like

1334
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,239
that's something that like that's a luxury, Like being so

1335
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:54,159
far beneath the first apron is a real big luxury.

1336
01:03:54,159 --> 01:03:55,440
And so I don't know, again, you'd have to throw

1337
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,000
out names. Okay, well, then what's the trade? Not? You know,

1338
01:03:58,519 --> 01:04:00,880
but like the fact that you could trade aid Simoney

1339
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,079
Fontachio and a smaller salary and get a player making

1340
01:04:04,119 --> 01:04:06,159
like twenty plus million dollars is a pretty big deal.

1341
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:10,599
Speaker 2: What player can you get who might be overvalued on

1342
01:04:10,679 --> 01:04:14,800
his current deal if you combine Tobias Harrison von Techio,

1343
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:16,880
for example, like a big fish, not a big fish,

1344
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,480
but a big contract where you're willing to swallow years.

1345
01:04:20,119 --> 01:04:26,639
Speaker 1: Karl Anthony Towns, I mean I was scoring.

1346
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,639
Speaker 2: Not you were, but like you're scoring. I wouldn't hate

1347
01:04:28,679 --> 01:04:32,599
the scoring. The defense though, would be him and Dura.

1348
01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:37,119
I wouldn't trust it. I know you're making a joke.

1349
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,599
Speaker 1: But that's interesting, Yeah, I mean that would I can't

1350
01:04:40,639 --> 01:04:42,519
imagine like if the Knicker training car maybe it's a

1351
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:44,880
third teams involved. If the knickser training Corny towns. Imagine

1352
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,480
they want like an immediate like immediately high return.

1353
01:04:48,719 --> 01:04:51,079
Speaker 2: But is there like a large contract where you can

1354
01:04:51,159 --> 01:04:54,840
basically just swap Harrison Frontichio for that player without it

1355
01:04:55,519 --> 01:04:57,039
including draft picks for example.

1356
01:04:57,159 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: Well, I was even wondering, like could you do something

1357
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,719
where it's fun techyo and then let's look at another

1358
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,039
smaller salary or actually you could probably just do font

1359
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:07,719
techyo because you could futs with his like guaranteed money,

1360
01:05:08,039 --> 01:05:10,400
Like what about font techyo just straight up for Duncan Robinson.

1361
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: Mm, and are we still keeping beastly or are we

1362
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,119
then going for time?

1363
01:05:17,239 --> 01:05:19,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're keeping your like leaning kind of into shooting

1364
01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:20,960
because Duncan Robinson, you could use him at two, the three,

1365
01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:22,800
get away with him at the four as far as

1366
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:24,400
I'm concerned, if you really need to, especially with some

1367
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:26,599
of the defensive pieces they could insulate him with. I mean,

1368
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,679
like Kate Cunningham being like nine feet tall is sort

1369
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:31,440
of just this hack that allows you to try out

1370
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,719
all these different sorts of lineups.

1371
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you have Beastley and Duncan Robinson

1372
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,679
out there, you're optimizing ever lasting shit on the floor.

1373
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: And I mean Ivy if he's in on the floor

1374
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,920
in those minutes, like the spacing for him because then

1375
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,920
Kate Robinson Beasley. I mean, like then that lineup might

1376
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,559
be pretty small with Dern in the middle. But that's

1377
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:52,719
that's sort of the Okay, we think we got better

1378
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,719
just because some moony von Taecho didn't have the best season,

1379
01:05:55,639 --> 01:05:58,360
but we didn't like commit any you know, or maybe

1380
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,519
there's look, is there a mega deal out there's Wiggins

1381
01:06:00,599 --> 01:06:03,480
and Robinson and you're giving up Harris and fontechio and

1382
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:05,559
then what to make it happen? That would be another

1383
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:09,239
because look, Robinson is basically he has that ETO, but

1384
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:11,840
the salary is only partially guaranteed, so like you could

1385
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,440
guarantee whatever chunk you need to make the money work

1386
01:06:14,599 --> 01:06:15,519
in a trade that way.

1387
01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think the fours. And there was some

1388
01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:22,199
name I was coming up with, and then I realized

1389
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,679
he was in Detroit recently, and so that doesn't it

1390
01:06:25,719 --> 01:06:29,119
doesn't really Jeremy Grant, Yeah, that was the guy.

1391
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,519
Speaker 1: As a stopgap. What about Harrison Barnes.

1392
01:06:33,719 --> 01:06:37,079
Speaker 2: Oh, now that's a good one. He knows his role,

1393
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:40,239
he won't overplay it. He's a bit of a ball handler,

1394
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,719
but not to an extent where it overtakes anything. And

1395
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,039
it's like he's playing moriy ball to the full extent.

1396
01:06:46,159 --> 01:06:48,360
It is like corner three shots at the rim. Not

1397
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,880
a lot of mid range stuff, brilliant floor space. Are

1398
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,079
really a thinker out there? That's a good one. And

1399
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:57,199
he's aid to what like nineteen nineteen million?

1400
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's around there. What about this one? He's at

1401
01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:04,079
thirty remillion reuniting with Chris Middleton for a year.

1402
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,519
Speaker 2: I always love thinkers, so I guess I'm on board.

1403
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,960
What what's the deal to set Tobias?

1404
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: That could be Tobias for Chris Middleton straight up? I

1405
01:07:14,079 --> 01:07:15,760
mean you could do let like you could get there.

1406
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,320
I don't really want to give up Isaiah Stewart if

1407
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,639
I'm Detroit, So I mean, like Tobias, Harris is probably

1408
01:07:20,639 --> 01:07:23,400
the salary anchor there right now. That that gets interesting

1409
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,920
because as a catch and shoot guy and defensively right now,

1410
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,159
Harris is probably better. But if you're looking for someone

1411
01:07:29,199 --> 01:07:31,880
who could create more off the dribble, especially in a

1412
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,559
playoff setting. I probably still trush a healthy Chris Middleton.

1413
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,840
Now healthy is put in you know, bold caps lock

1414
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:40,119
italics there right.

1415
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: I actually suspect that Washington wouldn't be that interested because

1416
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:51,159
it seems as though they have sort of identified Middleton

1417
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,960
as like the mentor for a lot of these young

1418
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:55,920
young guys.

1419
01:07:56,159 --> 01:07:58,519
Speaker 1: What's interesting, though, is I don't think that he's at

1420
01:07:58,599 --> 01:08:01,639
I don't think Chris Middleton views him himself that way.

1421
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 2: Are we sure of that after all those injuries though?

1422
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,920
I mean, and like he whenever he speaks right, smart

1423
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,840
things comes out comes out of his mouth every single time.

1424
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:20,319
He just seems like a very, very very intelligent person.

1425
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:22,680
I think an organization like the Wizards that are going

1426
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,640
through a youth moment will greatly appreciate a voice like

1427
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:31,439
that in the locker room. I'll say it right now.

1428
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,039
Speaker 1: Even though he's not totally available, they the Detroit should

1429
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:36,079
be considered a Yannas Attenta Kumpo dark horse. If he

1430
01:08:36,159 --> 01:08:38,600
becomes available, he would him and kid would absolutely just

1431
01:08:39,239 --> 01:08:44,720
destroy worlds. Another name that I kind of like been

1432
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,119
kicking around the idea, and I don't necessarily like know

1433
01:08:49,079 --> 01:08:51,520
off Rip how it works because he's a free agent.

1434
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,319
He's a restricted free agent. But if you missed on

1435
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,399
nas read Santi Albama as a four or five. He's

1436
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,000
not really a three to four. But he can make

1437
01:08:58,079 --> 01:08:58,479
sense here.

1438
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I would love to see al

1439
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,800
Daba in a place where he gets more minutes.

1440
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:11,399
Speaker 1: Or even look another Grizzly just buried, maybe not because

1441
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,520
of injuries, and Marvin Bagley's a free A well, no,

1442
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,760
I was gonna say he'd be fun anywhere. But like

1443
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,840
Jay Huff, like if you're just looking for the floor

1444
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:19,880
spacing element.

1445
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 2: At the five, Okay, all right, that's that's really thinking.

1446
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:28,479
We went from Trey Murphy. First of all, we didn't

1447
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,960
go now we're down at like Jay Huff, that's where

1448
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:32,199
we are. Great.

1449
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,359
Speaker 1: It's all just different levels of moves. John Jones says

1450
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:37,279
Piston's top three in the East next year. We didn't

1451
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:39,039
mention in that convo, but I think there's a like

1452
01:09:39,079 --> 01:09:40,399
if he told me they were a third seed in

1453
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,880
the YEA, I would ask you though, if they were,

1454
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,000
I'd probably ask, okay, like what's the trade they made

1455
01:09:46,039 --> 01:09:47,800
over the offseason that helped get them there? Because I

1456
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,640
don't know that it would be this core.

1457
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 2: But I think it was the trade of not believing

1458
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,640
too believing in Jade and Ivy the.

1459
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,079
Speaker 1: I think if they were gonna make a big swing,

1460
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:00,760
there'd be a ton of different directions they could go.

1461
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:02,560
But I think you and I have identified like, if

1462
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,960
you're just looking to make these upgrades without really knifing

1463
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,079
into your core, a combo forward or maybe a combo

1464
01:10:08,199 --> 01:10:10,560
big would just be the way to go. That doesn't

1465
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,399
mess with if anything at augments your the floor spacing

1466
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:14,800
balance you carved out last year.

1467
01:10:15,279 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 2: One last name before we move on, and I'm I'm

1468
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,840
I promise you I'm not trying to I'm not trying

1469
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,159
to like go back to the bull swell intentionally here

1470
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,159
but no, no, but but stay with me on this.

1471
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,399
We also agree that that the Bulls aren't really a

1472
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,399
great development situation for a lot of players. Could there

1473
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:41,199
be a level of interest in, hey, could we actually

1474
01:10:41,279 --> 01:10:44,119
be the team that gets something out of a Patrick Williams.

1475
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:49,199
Speaker 1: I I mean, I just I don't think you could

1476
01:10:49,239 --> 01:10:51,720
do that as Detroit. That's like too big of a risk.

1477
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:55,039
And then he's still that deal goes on forever. Now

1478
01:10:55,039 --> 01:10:56,520
if the Bulls are giving you one of their first

1479
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,279
round picks. Let's have a conversation right now and get that.

1480
01:11:00,359 --> 01:11:03,680
It's just at least the contract is flat. I mean,

1481
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:07,600
and I get it, but like, do you think that

1482
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:09,720
might be interested in the flyer? Like?

1483
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,359
Speaker 2: The thing what I like him about pat here though

1484
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,720
specifically for Detroit, is he's not going to take up

1485
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,000
a lot of like the ball handling, Like the usage

1486
01:11:18,079 --> 01:11:23,079
rate isn't going to be high at all. The defense

1487
01:11:23,159 --> 01:11:25,159
is something that I'm actually I think has become a

1488
01:11:25,239 --> 01:11:28,159
little bit underrated, to be honest with you. And there

1489
01:11:28,199 --> 01:11:31,039
is a level of three point shot making. It wasn't

1490
01:11:31,279 --> 01:11:34,880
on display this season, but the years before then, he

1491
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,680
was a pretty reliable three point shooter on how much

1492
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,560
volume Not a lot of volume, but at least the

1493
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,960
percentages were consistent until they broke off this year. But like,

1494
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,640
I still think there's something there that other teams, some

1495
01:11:48,279 --> 01:11:51,640
specific other team perhaps can extract from him that the

1496
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:52,479
Bulls just couldn't.

1497
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,319
Speaker 1: I don't think unless Detroit's being compensated for it, I

1498
01:11:57,359 --> 01:11:59,800
can't like this, can't like Tobias Harris for Patters, Yeah,

1499
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:00,680
I couldn't touch that.

1500
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: If that's totally fair. I'm I'm what what do we

1501
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:04,960
say on this podcast? Man?

1502
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: We're just asking the questions. That's a good just asking

1503
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:09,319
a questions. I'm trying to think of, like what would

1504
01:12:09,319 --> 01:12:11,319
be the team that could talk themselves into that? And

1505
01:12:11,399 --> 01:12:12,560
I can't come up with one.

1506
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:16,359
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, Joe Dumoors called Joe.

1507
01:12:18,079 --> 01:12:20,119
Speaker 1: Or maybe the Nuggets like Josh Kronkey every sing like

1508
01:12:20,119 --> 01:12:22,239
Michael Porter Junior for Patrick Williams in a first round

1509
01:12:22,239 --> 01:12:27,159
pick or Patrick Williams and what about Patrick Williams and

1510
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:31,279
Kobe White for Michael Porter Jr. I'm not doing that

1511
01:12:31,319 --> 01:12:32,960
if I'm the Nuggets because Kobe White is about to

1512
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:34,439
get paid and I don't know that I want Patrick

1513
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:35,199
Williams on the roster.

1514
01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 2: But you're not king if the Nuggets. I don't.

1515
01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't know. But like, if Patrick Williams can't

1516
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,960
figure it out alongside Nicole Jokinch, then then there's real problems.

1517
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:49,520
Speaker 2: Well at least again Kobe White. That'd be a good

1518
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,039
that'd be a good fun place when in's a bull start.

1519
01:12:52,359 --> 01:12:55,239
I was asking specifically about Patrick Williams for the for

1520
01:12:55,319 --> 01:12:55,960
the Piston stuff.

1521
01:12:56,079 --> 01:12:57,600
Speaker 1: I think I think we kind of hit it where

1522
01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:59,399
it's like, you know, if it was a bigger swing

1523
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,479
on a younger player like a Jabari Smith, or it's

1524
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,600
you know, you really you mentioned Cam Johnson. Maybe if

1525
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,760
Sam Hawser is actually available, it feels like or you know,

1526
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:10,840
the Harrison Barnes type of stop gap.

1527
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 2: I think you mentioned Cam Johnson, which was a good shot.

1528
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 1: By the way, Yes, all right, well let me just

1529
01:13:15,199 --> 01:13:16,560
dislocate my shoulder, patty my.

1530
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,279
Speaker 2: Back, and I know what you were setting yourself up to.

1531
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:20,279
It's fine, yep.

1532
01:13:21,159 --> 01:13:23,239
Speaker 1: I just I don't know that there's like a big

1533
01:13:23,319 --> 01:13:25,039
name where I'd be like, all right, go get this player,

1534
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,520
right wow, John Jones, Troy Reaver wanted Patrick, but he

1535
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,920
was taken before they had their pick, and he should

1536
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,640
thank the Chicago Bulls. Although I troll Patrick Williams now,

1537
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,279
but I'm more so trolling the Bulls. I had Patrick

1538
01:13:38,319 --> 01:13:40,760
Williams as number four in my big board that year.

1539
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:42,560
I believe he was at least in my top five,

1540
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,319
so I missed on him too. I make fun of

1541
01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:46,800
the Bulls. But before we move on to another team,

1542
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,159
he got a couple of questions general NBA questions. Let's

1543
01:13:49,199 --> 01:13:52,239
catch up on those regulator, Are you surprised on Sam

1544
01:13:52,319 --> 01:13:56,560
Merrill's contract, Will Trey Man get a similar deal? Four

1545
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,760
for thirty eight? I'm not supprised as someone a motion shooter,

1546
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:02,800
a shot champion, that's solid rock say think that's fun,

1547
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:04,640
and I bet you I'd like to see the details.

1548
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,880
I haven't looked at him yet. There's probably like I

1549
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,479
would bet that only three of the like at most

1550
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,159
three of those years are completely guaranteed. Like it feels

1551
01:14:12,199 --> 01:14:14,319
like that's team option territory, right right?

1552
01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:17,399
Speaker 2: Uh? I mean even if it is like the last

1553
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,279
year is like a ten point one million.

1554
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did the Nuggets pay Christian oh Well? To

1555
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,960
answer the Trey Mann question, first, excuse me? Do you

1556
01:14:25,039 --> 01:14:27,680
think he gets more? Like he was so injured last year?

1557
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,039
He's looked pretty good and Charlotte went healthy, but.

1558
01:14:30,199 --> 01:14:32,520
Speaker 2: He did, but the injury concern has to be major.

1559
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:37,600
And plus he's you know, he's I'm a specialty player.

1560
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:38,399
I don't even know at this.

1561
01:14:38,399 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: Point, I'm gonna say this. I think he gets more,

1562
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,199
but it's for shorter. I think it might be like a.

1563
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:45,359
Speaker 2: Two year that's yeah, that's a good compromise, like two for.

1564
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 1: Thirty or something like that. I feel like that's where

1565
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,760
he might wind up. A legend of Ox Berriman. What

1566
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,119
did the Nuggets pay Christian Brown? After seeing what Nasried

1567
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:57,119
got paid and after seeing Kamingas seeking thirty plus million,

1568
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:00,760
their owners and GM said no core trades. I mean,

1569
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:03,239
first of all, I'll be shocked if if coming gets

1570
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:06,039
thirty plus million dollars, someone made a huge mistake.

1571
01:15:06,359 --> 01:15:09,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, same iron.

1572
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if nas Reed impacts the Christian

1573
01:15:12,199 --> 01:15:14,079
Brown market at all. I think i'd more so look

1574
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:17,920
at the Jade McDaniels deal, maybe the Trey Murphy deal.

1575
01:15:18,359 --> 01:15:20,920
What does Keegan Murray yet from the Kings in an extension?

1576
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,399
Might be a yeah, that's that's like kind of a

1577
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:23,359
different position too.

1578
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 2: Likes between twenty four and twenty seven million a year.

1579
01:15:26,039 --> 01:15:29,119
Speaker 1: That feels yeah, I mean he's not You're not get

1580
01:15:29,239 --> 01:15:31,960
if they get him for under twenty three million dollars

1581
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,800
a year, I'd be pretty surprised, wouldn't you, because right

1582
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:39,399
just because at that point, if i'm him, I'm the

1583
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:41,640
archetype of player that teams might give an off for

1584
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:43,640
sheet out to in twenty twenty six, So I'm not

1585
01:15:44,079 --> 01:15:46,479
I'm probably twenty five million if I'm him as probably

1586
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:48,640
the bare minimum I consider accepting.

1587
01:15:49,319 --> 01:15:51,399
Speaker 2: I feel as though we kind of underrate or not

1588
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:56,239
talk enough about his season, like just his shot identification

1589
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,239
this year, and like his conversion rate and him understanding

1590
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,159
when to take a shot, when not to take a shot, like.

1591
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 1: Even more importantly doing that when Nicole Jokic is off

1592
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:05,079
the floor.

1593
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot more. Yeah, for sure, he had such

1594
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:08,439
a good year.

1595
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:13,560
Speaker 1: Let's talk. It's kind of a somber conversation. The Indiana

1596
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,399
Pacers one game away from winning the NBA title too,

1597
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:17,920
Morret's question of.

1598
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,199
Speaker 2: Time for a stop gap year, and it's look, it's

1599
01:16:23,279 --> 01:16:27,640
this is the same situation for the Celtics, for the Bucks,

1600
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:31,359
you know, with key guys on that same injury. For

1601
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,199
the Pacers specifically, it's they're in the top spot because

1602
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:37,560
before the finals, I think it was leading into the finals,

1603
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:39,720
it was reported they were willing to go into the

1604
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:44,039
tax to keep Miles Turner. Have those plans changed? Are

1605
01:16:44,119 --> 01:16:47,199
they kind of holding off a little bit? Are they

1606
01:16:47,279 --> 01:16:50,520
looking to shed salary elsewhere to not pay the tax

1607
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,840
because Tyrese is not presumably not going to play next year.

1608
01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:56,800
I think there are a lot of questions there that

1609
01:16:57,079 --> 01:17:00,279
are left unanswered, and you can play a different like

1610
01:17:00,359 --> 01:17:03,920
you can have the stop gap year, you can hit

1611
01:17:04,039 --> 01:17:06,680
the big red reset button, which I don't think they will,

1612
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,600
but like, what is the approach here do they do?

1613
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,880
They just fight through it perhaps instead and just kind

1614
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,720
of say, okay, no, time's Halliburton, but we're just gonna

1615
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:20,319
play the crafton out of t J McConnell and Andrew

1616
01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:23,760
Nimhart like and then extend the minutes for Jars Walker

1617
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,079
as well to have some more playmaking at the three four.

1618
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,000
I don't know what their plan is, so and it's

1619
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,520
also unfair to expect them to have a plan this soon,

1620
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,079
because right it just happened.

1621
01:17:37,319 --> 01:17:39,359
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like and like you kind of

1622
01:17:39,399 --> 01:17:40,960
talked about mine a little bits, like how does how

1623
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,520
he's injury impact how they plan to handle Myles Turner?

1624
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,680
Or they're just stepped on you entire apologies that's totally fine. No,

1625
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:49,680
I think it's there. Look, they're inextric will be tied together.

1626
01:17:50,399 --> 01:17:52,319
If I were the Pacers, I think I might just

1627
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,319
I pay Miles Turner and if he casts you, let's

1628
01:17:55,319 --> 01:17:56,479
just say thirty million. I don't know if that's a

1629
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,600
number they're comfortable with. That's the number has been thrown around.

1630
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:00,600
You're kind of at that point. You could figure it

1631
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,640
out to where you're ten to fifteen million dollars over

1632
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,560
the tax. Do you think that's money enough that you'd

1633
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,920
feel confident in being able to tram around the trade

1634
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,640
deadline if you're not having a good season, or you

1635
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:13,640
just you're looking at this season and saying, we don't

1636
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,199
have Haliburton, why would we ever enter the tax? And

1637
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:18,439
so we are going to just be out of the tax.

1638
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: You're asking me to answer a question, and I say,

1639
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,880
if I'm a billionaire, which I'm very much not. My

1640
01:18:27,079 --> 01:18:28,079
answer as an.

1641
01:18:28,319 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 1: Your only I have like nine million followers. It's not

1642
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:32,800
enough to have a billion bucks.

1643
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: At least U would always be to pay the tax,

1644
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,680
because I don't care what the fuck a billionaire pays

1645
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,000
in an NBA luxury tax. Fuck that. Like, if you

1646
01:18:43,079 --> 01:18:45,760
own a basketball team, I think you're obligated to do

1647
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:47,760
whatever you can to put the best product on the floor,

1648
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:50,159
and if that means that one of your players is injured,

1649
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,640
tough shits to do it anyway. That's my personal perspective,

1650
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:57,600
but I also know that that's not reality. But I

1651
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,560
wouldn't care about going into luxture tax whatsoever. If I

1652
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,960
had billions upon billions of dollars, I wouldn't care, would well.

1653
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:07,039
Speaker 1: I think that's great in sort of Gaga land, But

1654
01:19:07,159 --> 01:19:09,600
we're operating in reality and the team is thinking.

1655
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 2: And that's why I don't think they will. Then who

1656
01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:13,800
what I would do?

1657
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,039
Speaker 1: Well? Who becomes the salary? Then that are you just

1658
01:19:17,119 --> 01:19:19,359
letting Miles? Are you signing and trading Miles Turner? Or

1659
01:19:19,359 --> 01:19:20,800
are you getting rid of Obi Toppin?

1660
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:26,119
Speaker 2: Are you there? We go into like two contracts and

1661
01:19:26,159 --> 01:19:29,119
then I'm pivoting off like one half of that contract perhaps,

1662
01:19:30,399 --> 01:19:30,760
And you.

1663
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,520
Speaker 1: Know why that might be the move now because Obi

1664
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:36,319
Toppin's value has probably never been higher after what he

1665
01:19:36,359 --> 01:19:38,000
did for them in the playoffs. And I recognize that

1666
01:19:38,079 --> 01:19:40,560
he's so cool to their offensive identity. But if you

1667
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,920
still believe in giras Walker and you have Siaka, when

1668
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,960
you have Turner, you could make the case that that's

1669
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:48,159
the way to go. And if you were to be

1670
01:19:48,199 --> 01:19:50,640
able to trim salary as part of an Obi Toppin trade,

1671
01:19:51,359 --> 01:19:53,840
now would be the actual time to probably do.

1672
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:58,119
Speaker 2: It, and he would fit into the non text Emily exception.

1673
01:19:58,319 --> 01:20:01,279
If it was right, fourteen he's making he's only making

1674
01:20:01,319 --> 01:20:06,880
fourteen one. He's no, he's making fourteen and the non

1675
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:08,720
sexs and police projected to be fourteen one.

1676
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,720
Speaker 1: Right, I did not know he was so low if

1677
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,239
he so he's at fifteen. Oh, no, he's at fourteen.

1678
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 2: Right, he's this year.

1679
01:20:16,119 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 1: That's that's like almost like it was structured for this.

1680
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 2: Thing, and like it seem out there should do that

1681
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,199
every then get away with it. Hey, he'd be a

1682
01:20:27,239 --> 01:20:31,159
good fit in Detroit. Right, Oh, that's not a bad idea.

1683
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:32,039
I don't like.

1684
01:20:32,159 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: I don't hate that, like if I mean Detroit doesn't

1685
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,399
have if they're bringing back Beasley, they don't necessarily have

1686
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:39,560
the ability to say you'd have to choose, Well, it

1687
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,720
have to be fon fontechio for Obi toppin would work.

1688
01:20:45,279 --> 01:20:46,920
So you'd save some money there, you're not saving the

1689
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,920
balance that we're saving like what five something, So maybe

1690
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:51,479
that's not enough. But do you think that you could

1691
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,439
send Like I think someone would probably take Fontechio into

1692
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,279
their mid level exception too. It's like me, I think

1693
01:20:57,279 --> 01:20:59,439
that the Pacers if you wanted to, I bet you

1694
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,800
could probably get off of all of Obi Toppin's money.

1695
01:21:03,119 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is worried about.

1696
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 1: Kudos to Obi Toppin and the Pacers because the way

1697
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,640
that I even talked about that contract, that was not

1698
01:21:10,039 --> 01:21:12,119
as hard about it as some I thought it was

1699
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:14,039
too long if you're looking forward as a trade chip,

1700
01:21:14,399 --> 01:21:15,840
and now it kind of looks like, oh, that deal

1701
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,479
will just be fine, right.

1702
01:21:18,399 --> 01:21:18,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1703
01:21:20,359 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 1: A couple questions on the Pacers PDP. What about Ben Matherin,

1704
01:21:24,079 --> 01:21:26,600
TJ McConnell, Ben Shephard, and picks for Trey Murphy.

1705
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,560
Speaker 2: Oh that's aggressive. I don't hate that.

1706
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:34,159
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I'd have to see how many picks.

1707
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,600
Yeah are you giving? Are you giving the Pelicans back

1708
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:42,079
the Pacers big next year? That'd be really funny.

1709
01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:45,359
Speaker 2: But you also get out of the Benedict Mathern situation. Uh.

1710
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,800
And what I mean situation, I mean contractual situation.

1711
01:21:48,359 --> 01:21:50,600
Speaker 1: I guess what New Orleans want to get in to

1712
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,319
the Benedict mather business after getting where I'm just.

1713
01:21:53,319 --> 01:21:56,239
Speaker 2: Gonna say, Joe Dumars, whenever we talk about the Pelicans.

1714
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I just can't. They're a trade. They're trading

1715
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,560
like a wing and a como forward for a lot

1716
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:04,079
of guards.

1717
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:05,119
Speaker 2: To me in there.

1718
01:22:05,159 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 1: But look, if you include enough picks, maybe anything is possible.

1719
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,119
And like you said, Joe Dumars is just left and

1720
01:22:10,199 --> 01:22:11,560
right out here making bad decisions.

1721
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:17,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Ben Shephard, I actually hate losing him. If

1722
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:18,840
I'm losing Mathrin.

1723
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,239
Speaker 1: All right, if you're getting Trey Murphy, like yeah, no.

1724
01:22:22,279 --> 01:22:24,199
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm n pinging on that one for sure.

1725
01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:25,199
But what I'm saying is.

1726
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 1: You need a point guard badly after that trade though, right, yeah,

1727
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:34,520
yeah you do, but you would have, mate, I mean,

1728
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:36,760
are you cutting money as part of that deal? Those

1729
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:38,640
salaries though? I don't even think that that's not gonna

1730
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:39,479
be enough for trade Murphy.

1731
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:42,399
Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't really looked at that trade.

1732
01:22:42,199 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 1: On Actually, Mathren McConnell, Shephard might be able to make

1733
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:47,720
the money work. But like, if you're the Pacers trying

1734
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:48,880
to stay out of the tax.

1735
01:22:49,319 --> 01:22:52,079
Speaker 2: It feels like the open obi top in scenarios that

1736
01:22:52,119 --> 01:22:53,800
we outlined before is more realistic.

1737
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah for sure.

1738
01:22:57,239 --> 01:22:57,359
Speaker 2: Uh.

1739
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,520
Speaker 1: Berserk Monk says, does Mathern automatically feast in extra points

1740
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:03,279
per game with Hallie out? If he goes into twenty

1741
01:23:03,279 --> 01:23:05,479
two plus points per game? What does that do for

1742
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:09,039
his new deal next summer. I will say that if

1743
01:23:09,039 --> 01:23:11,880
you keep Bennedict Mathrin and you're not making any other

1744
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,239
major changes on the roster, he is exponentially more important

1745
01:23:15,239 --> 01:23:16,800
to the Pacers next year than he is next year.

1746
01:23:17,159 --> 01:23:19,520
And that's why I think, is Indie, if you're not

1747
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:21,800
planning on trading him, you're probably trying to get him

1748
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,439
on like what wo could turn into a team friendly extension.

1749
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:28,000
And then if you're a Mathrin, you might never feel

1750
01:23:28,039 --> 01:23:30,079
better about betting on yourself.

1751
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,319
Speaker 2: Right because you're gonna get all the shots, all the minutes,

1752
01:23:33,399 --> 01:23:35,520
like you're probably gonna lead the team in scoring next year.

1753
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,399
I mean, with all due respects of Pascal Siakam, but

1754
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,079
Siakam I think is more for like more for a

1755
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:43,319
reader of the floor, where Mathrin is just like, let

1756
01:23:43,399 --> 01:23:47,079
me go get buckets. So there's a reasonable chance that

1757
01:23:47,159 --> 01:23:49,880
he averages twenty two twenty three next year.

1758
01:23:50,279 --> 01:23:52,039
Speaker 1: That's also why, by the way, if you're looking at

1759
01:23:52,039 --> 01:23:53,880
still because the Pacers don't tank. If they have their

1760
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:55,600
own pick and I think what a gap year should

1761
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,119
look like one I would embrace it, and so am

1762
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:00,039
I going full tank. That's not what they do. And

1763
01:24:00,119 --> 01:24:02,039
you have Okam. If you're bringing back Turner, you just

1764
01:24:02,079 --> 01:24:04,840
have a lot of good players. It's unrealistic. I'm just

1765
01:24:05,399 --> 01:24:08,039
I'm managing everyone's load, and I'm not looking at oh,

1766
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,479
let's trade Siakam or something because he's gonna be a

1767
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,079
year older when Haliburton comes back.

1768
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:14,560
Speaker 2: That's how I would approach it.

1769
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,640
Speaker 1: And I think that Obi Toppin feels like the name,

1770
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,800
even though I recognize that he's become a lot more

1771
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,279
valuable because if you Bennett Bethter's not making a crap

1772
01:24:23,399 --> 01:24:25,359
ton anyway, so he's not getting you out of the

1773
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:28,479
tax necessarily as Miles Turner's signing for Ultra cheap. He's

1774
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:30,039
not getting you out of the tax or close to

1775
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:32,720
it on his own. And you could roll the dice

1776
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,640
into restricted free agency. See what his market says, and

1777
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,159
he's just like Obi Toppin doesn't provide that raw scoring

1778
01:24:39,199 --> 01:24:42,199
element that he does that it's fout. It feels countertwitor

1779
01:24:42,279 --> 01:24:44,279
to say that's what you need without Halle, because that's

1780
01:24:44,319 --> 01:24:48,199
not Halle's DNA, but without his playmaking and pay setting,

1781
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,800
you need like someone who can just get buckets.

1782
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,640
Speaker 2: It's so funny, Dan, because the last video on my

1783
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:56,600
only fans I called manching everyone's load. It's great.

1784
01:24:57,359 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 1: I've really when I said that, I was like, that's

1785
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:04,079
a problematic phrasing. Yeah, let's over under. If Bette Mather's

1786
01:25:04,119 --> 01:25:06,279
on the Pacers to start next season over under on

1787
01:25:06,359 --> 01:25:10,279
his points per game, I'm gonna set it at nineteen point.

1788
01:25:10,119 --> 01:25:13,560
Speaker 2: Five over aggressively.

1789
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: Over all, they look they play more of an egalitarian offense.

1790
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,720
I'm just asking questions you're getting You're getting all bent

1791
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,199
out of shape over there, Like, yeah.

1792
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 2: I know they are playing that type of offense. But look,

1793
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,239
without Halley, like, they're gonna have to have some main

1794
01:25:26,319 --> 01:25:29,399
guys a math Rn we know his play style. We're

1795
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:31,439
gonna be looking at like twenty three. You should have

1796
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:33,239
set the over under in like twenty two and a half.

1797
01:25:33,319 --> 01:25:34,159
That would have been funner.

1798
01:25:34,439 --> 01:25:36,359
Speaker 1: Okay, twenty two and a half. I'll take the under.

1799
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,199
I'll tak the wow that. You need to go find

1800
01:25:39,239 --> 01:25:40,800
that bet and see what odds you can get for

1801
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:42,760
betting that math And average is twenty three points per

1802
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:43,520
game next season?

1803
01:25:44,079 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 2: I mean, are we that?

1804
01:25:45,239 --> 01:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not down on I'm not down on him.

1805
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:52,039
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I'm not saying down just saying like, why.

1806
01:25:52,119 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 1: Is the quintessential? What didn't need? Like, yeah, twenty five

1807
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,960
points in like twelve minutes. That's definitely someone who you.

1808
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,560
Speaker 2: Know, Like he's averaging nineteen point four points per game

1809
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:05,359
per thirty six this season, and that was with Halliburton.

1810
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,279
Are we sure that he's not going to get up

1811
01:26:08,399 --> 01:26:11,720
it's like four or five more points per game. Raw.

1812
01:26:12,159 --> 01:26:14,279
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just not going

1813
01:26:14,359 --> 01:26:15,600
to predict it, that's all I'm saying.

1814
01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 2: Hmm, I don't know. I'm I feel pretty confident that

1815
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:21,800
it's going to be like twenty.

1816
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:25,279
Speaker 1: Three plus one more over under from Danny Menton. TJ

1817
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:27,920
McConnell assists per game over under six and a half.

1818
01:26:29,079 --> 01:26:32,079
If he's on the Pacer, might he might be on

1819
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:35,000
the Pelicans when the Pacers acquired to Trey Murphy. Let's

1820
01:26:35,039 --> 01:26:36,399
not let's not forget people.

1821
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 2: Well the over under? Does t J McConnell win the

1822
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,319
MVP should actually be the Pucher?

1823
01:26:43,279 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: Well do? People will be calling when the Pacers like

1824
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,479
wind up winning forty eight games, They're like, well, just

1825
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:48,680
trade Halle? What do you need him for?

1826
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:50,159
Speaker 2: TJ mcconnelly's help you do that.

1827
01:26:51,079 --> 01:26:54,039
Speaker 1: TJ. McConnell, Benedict mathrenuh.

1828
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,399
Speaker 2: The league in nine foot pull up jump shots.

1829
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 1: I probably take Will McConnell play enough to get because

1830
01:27:03,239 --> 01:27:05,199
here's the thing. He might play more, But in theory,

1831
01:27:05,239 --> 01:27:07,159
it might be harder for people to make shots without

1832
01:27:07,319 --> 01:27:09,479
Hallie on the court. Six and a half. It's an

1833
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,600
interesting number. I might take the over. If they're gonna

1834
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:13,520
play him and he's your point guard and he's starting,

1835
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:14,560
I'll take the over.

1836
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,800
Speaker 2: What about Nemhart though, Like Nemhart, like he was at

1837
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,840
five assistants, like the secondary guy, he was playing twenty

1838
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,560
nine minutes per game. I assume he's gonna play like

1839
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,079
forty two forty three minutes next season. He's probably gonna

1840
01:27:28,119 --> 01:27:29,119
be the starting lead guard.

1841
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:38,279
Speaker 1: Right, So you're saying they'll start, They're gonna start nem Hard, Mathrin, Yeah,

1842
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,279
Nie Smith, Turner and Siakam. I guess that would make sense.

1843
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:44,840
So who do you think leads the Pacers in assists

1844
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,159
per game next year? McConnell or Nemhard. You could probably

1845
01:27:48,159 --> 01:27:49,920
throw Siakam into the mix if you really wanted to.

1846
01:27:52,119 --> 01:27:54,039
Speaker 2: No, it's it's probably yeah, you're right, you know what,

1847
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:57,840
it's probably still gonna beat CJ somehow, some way. I

1848
01:27:58,039 --> 01:27:58,199
like that.

1849
01:27:58,399 --> 01:28:00,399
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna map out how, but it'll happened, I

1850
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:00,720
agree with.

1851
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. He's gonna come off the bench.

1852
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:06,079
But this guy just gets shited done, right, And we

1853
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:08,520
don't know like the intricacies of this, because if you

1854
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,520
let's say nem Hard is playing the majority of his

1855
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:15,520
minutes with Mathrin, Mathren is a guy who likes to dance,

1856
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,720
and he'll get into the paint, he'll get to the line.

1857
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:21,239
It's you don't get assist off of free FROs. Well.

1858
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: The other thing you have to watch too is I

1859
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:26,000
know he's obviously he's gonna be thirty three. He is

1860
01:28:26,079 --> 01:28:29,520
thirty three. Excuse me, how many minutes is Sajy McConnell

1861
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,560
playing next season, Because he cleared thirty minutes exactly once

1862
01:28:33,079 --> 01:28:36,319
this past year. Right, he had thirteen assists in that game.

1863
01:28:36,399 --> 01:28:38,439
So he's gonna play thirty minutes. He's probably gonna lead

1864
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:41,880
the league. And it says, but yeah, you know, six

1865
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,159
and a half might be ambitious for him. I'm gonna

1866
01:28:44,239 --> 01:28:46,199
perhaps I'm gonna say it's nem Hard who wins up

1867
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:49,039
leading them assist I think playing time, or maybe it's

1868
01:28:49,119 --> 01:28:52,760
Tias Jones, could be Tie Jones.

1869
01:28:53,239 --> 01:28:55,319
Speaker 2: By the way, now we run the subject off the pacers.

1870
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:57,840
I don't think it's a hot take, but I do

1871
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,680
think we will see, you know, a well Christian Brown

1872
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,239
esque leap from Jeris Walker.

1873
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:08,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we might see that from Ben Shephard.

1874
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:11,279
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, I hope.

1875
01:29:11,399 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: By the way, this is what I would do if

1876
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:14,880
I'm indy, and this one might be like a way

1877
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,159
to like wrap up the actual your overarching question. I

1878
01:29:18,319 --> 01:29:21,840
might stay in the tax and during next season because like,

1879
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:25,239
if you're not crossing any aprons at that point, the

1880
01:29:25,359 --> 01:29:29,600
tax penalties have actually gotten a little cheaper in that bracket,

1881
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:31,119
and so if you need to get out of it

1882
01:29:31,199 --> 01:29:33,520
the trade deadline or maybe it's a multi step process

1883
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:36,399
where if you're not good, shave some sally to trade deadline,

1884
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:39,119
shave some salary around the draft, and get it, cause

1885
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:41,199
you're not gonna be ultraed deep into it. I might

1886
01:29:41,319 --> 01:29:43,520
stay in and see how good I can be while

1887
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:47,560
also experimenting, because like, go just go through these players.

1888
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,159
I understand they're a worst team without Hallie. There's like

1889
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,920
you can't it's short of letting Myles Turner walk and

1890
01:29:54,039 --> 01:29:56,880
trading Pascal Siakam, Like what is the pathway? Like a

1891
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:59,239
gap year might just mean yeah, we're gonna get the

1892
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,439
twenty if pick instead of like the twenty fourth or

1893
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:05,039
the twenty fifth. So I think that's what I'm doing,

1894
01:30:05,159 --> 01:30:07,479
is the page is I would not be afraid. And

1895
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,920
I actually mean this as like I said at the start,

1896
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:13,680
we need to operate in reality. But like the reality

1897
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:15,319
of it is is like you could still maybe be

1898
01:30:15,399 --> 01:30:17,119
pretty good in the east and like it's not the

1899
01:30:17,359 --> 01:30:18,199
I guess it starts the.

1900
01:30:18,239 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 2: Repeater clock, so that might be something they're more cognizant of.

1901
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:24,479
So that's probably they're not going to partake in the

1902
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,680
money that the other tax teams are paying them. That's

1903
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:31,359
all Like that's to me, seems like that's the sticking

1904
01:30:31,399 --> 01:30:31,960
point for someone.

1905
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're so not paying the tax, are they?

1906
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:36,359
Speaker 2: I'm just bad I would or at least see I

1907
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,960
go on the teams that just try to get under it.

1908
01:30:40,159 --> 01:30:43,640
Their motivation lies more so in wanting to share in

1909
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:47,960
the profit. Perhaps you know what, perhaps that's a way

1910
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:52,399
to fight you know, the luxury tax stuff that that

1911
01:30:53,199 --> 01:30:56,800
the tax bills don't get spread out that it gets

1912
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:57,760
spent differently.

1913
01:31:00,399 --> 01:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would the distribution be though? That fixes that?

1914
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:08,640
Speaker 2: Right? I don't. I don't know. But if that's your motivation,

1915
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:12,800
you have incentives not to pay for a contender or

1916
01:31:13,119 --> 01:31:15,680
for a good team even like it's one of the

1917
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:19,800
reasons why the aforementioned Bulls, for example, just don't want

1918
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:22,039
to pay the tax like they never will and they

1919
01:31:22,279 --> 01:31:25,279
have no intended to intend to do so because they

1920
01:31:25,359 --> 01:31:27,039
want to share in that profit. Like if you take

1921
01:31:27,079 --> 01:31:28,279
that away, what's their carrot?

1922
01:31:29,279 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: You should maybe, Like if you don't make the playoffs

1923
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:35,720
for three consecutive seasons, you are ineligible to receive.

1924
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:40,159
Speaker 2: I fucking love that. That's smart.

1925
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:41,600
Speaker 1: We just fixed the NBA.

1926
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:45,520
Speaker 2: No, I'm not kidding. That's really really smart because that's

1927
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:49,039
that's the best type of charac there is. Like you're

1928
01:31:49,119 --> 01:31:53,359
not gonna get it, like what eleven twelve million dollars

1929
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:57,319
every single year in luxury tax payments from other teams

1930
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,359
if you aren't trying to be competitive. That's a good one.

1931
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:03,239
I love that. I might actually fucking write about that. Yes,

1932
01:32:03,399 --> 01:32:03,600
do it.

1933
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 1: That's buried you should because it's buried in Like what's

1934
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:07,520
going to be one hundred and twenty minute podcast for

1935
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,000
a three seconds, so no one's even gonna notice that.

1936
01:32:10,079 --> 01:32:11,840
If you notice that we said it, hit us up

1937
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:12,159
in the cot.

1938
01:32:13,039 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 2: You said it, and I'm gonna give you credit as well,

1939
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:18,199
because that's not my idea. That's your idea, and it's

1940
01:32:18,199 --> 01:32:18,880
a fucking good one.

1941
01:32:19,119 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 1: You know what you can do to thank me, Everybody,

1942
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:22,800
join our discord and subscribe to this podcast.

1943
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 2: You haven't already, So glad you said discord not only fans,

1944
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:27,880
because that was trending in all the wrong directions.

1945
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,560
Speaker 1: Hey, we got to manage loads over here. Our final

1946
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,279
team more, it's about to start a war, I believe

1947
01:32:35,119 --> 01:32:38,880
the Milwaukee Bucks. Yeah, hit me with your question, mister Jensen.

1948
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 2: Right, look, we have to get into it. I mean,

1949
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,000
I understand Box fans. By the way, let me just

1950
01:32:45,079 --> 01:32:47,359
preface that before I get you know.

1951
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:51,479
Speaker 1: Likeling linguistically, morally, emotionally, what do you mean you understand?

1952
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:57,079
Speaker 2: Just before I get murdered. Honestly, I would like to

1953
01:32:57,119 --> 01:32:59,640
see Giannis onto the Koompoo finish his career Milwaukee. Let

1954
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:03,079
me get that out of the way asap. That would

1955
01:33:03,119 --> 01:33:06,119
be a fantastic story. I want him to have one

1956
01:33:06,199 --> 01:33:10,119
of those one franchise Tim Duncan careers. That would be great,

1957
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,199
but I feel as though we are just we've reached

1958
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:18,479
that point where we're so in love, we're so infatuated

1959
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:20,920
with the idea that he has to stay there. We're

1960
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,840
just shutting our eyes at the fact that the Bucks

1961
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,239
have just become like they painted themselves into a corner

1962
01:33:28,399 --> 01:33:32,800
so aggressively that we're really struggling to see, you know,

1963
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:35,479
how they get out of it. And right now in

1964
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,279
bucks Land, there's this idea of the stop gap year

1965
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:41,840
and how it magically is gonna solve everything. And while

1966
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:45,359
I understand the raw idea of all right, we're gonna

1967
01:33:45,399 --> 01:33:50,520
take a step back for one year, accumulate some assets, fine,

1968
01:33:51,359 --> 01:33:54,239
my question here is first and foremost, is that a

1969
01:33:54,359 --> 01:33:57,800
plan is that, like does that make sense? Like, Okay,

1970
01:33:57,840 --> 01:33:59,840
so you accumulate assets, you probably send that out for

1971
01:34:00,279 --> 01:34:03,760
and plus Dames expiring or whatever for like a secondary star. Great,

1972
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,399
then you have Giannis, you have a secondary star star,

1973
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,520
and then you have but Kiss you have nothing like

1974
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:13,479
is that going to lead to another real attempt at

1975
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:17,359
a championship? Probably not, because as we've seen this year,

1976
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:21,600
the NBA has leaned into depth, and it's so crucial

1977
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,640
to have that, especially in playoff context. So I feel

1978
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:30,720
as though when anyone now just suggests should the Bucks

1979
01:34:31,359 --> 01:34:34,359
entertain the idea of trading Ghana's, We're just met with

1980
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:38,239
this very aggressive no. It's a complete non starter. It's dumb.

1981
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:41,239
It's not dumb. You have to look under every rock.

1982
01:34:41,239 --> 01:34:43,800
If you're an NBA organization, you have to explore every

1983
01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:48,000
damn avenue, especially if you painted yourself into a corner

1984
01:34:48,119 --> 01:34:52,239
like you have. I'm not proposing that they should preemptively

1985
01:34:52,399 --> 01:34:54,439
just get the fuck out of here. Gianni's obviously not,

1986
01:34:55,279 --> 01:34:59,000
but to close that door entirely and then shut your

1987
01:34:59,079 --> 01:35:03,039
eyes wish upon a magic star that the gap year

1988
01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:06,640
is gonna fix it all. I don't think that's a plan. Dan,

1989
01:35:08,399 --> 01:35:09,920
So I both.

1990
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:12,840
Speaker 1: Agree and disagree. So what I agree on is, yes,

1991
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:14,920
is an NBA team you need to turn over every rock.

1992
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:18,119
What I would say, though, is Giannis is so good

1993
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:21,880
that unless he actually asks for out. Yeah, and particularly

1994
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,560
when you don't control your own draft pick again until

1995
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:29,319
twenty thirty one, right you you just you keep him.

1996
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,960
And what I will say though, is this idea of

1997
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:34,600
a gap year for them is not actually a thing.

1998
01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:38,319
It's just a season with Damian Lillard injured. That because

1999
01:35:38,399 --> 01:35:40,319
you don't control your own draft pick. And I like

2000
01:35:40,479 --> 01:35:43,800
Ryan Rollins, say what you want about Andre Jackson, Like

2001
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,119
this is not a team that you know, is Kevin

2002
01:35:46,159 --> 01:35:48,159
Porter Junior gonna come back? I like, throw all the

2003
01:35:48,239 --> 01:35:50,560
names you want. It me the upside of developed. Like

2004
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:53,000
I like AJ Green too. I actually think he's probably

2005
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,279
Ryan Rollins comes pretty close, but he's probably their best player,

2006
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:59,680
our best young players. He's AJ Green is the Bucks

2007
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:06,560
his best player. Screw Here's so I don't think a

2008
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:09,479
gap year. I don't think that you're gonna just discuss

2009
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:13,840
can year but a break in title contention because a

2010
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:15,920
gap year, I think you could call it a gap year,

2011
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,279
but like it doesn't have the traditional benefits of a

2012
01:36:19,319 --> 01:36:22,119
gap year to where a gap year isn't waiting for

2013
01:36:22,319 --> 01:36:25,960
more tradeable first round picks to be unlocked. It's like

2014
01:36:26,079 --> 01:36:27,920
going through a gap year is that you maximize the

2015
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:30,960
value of that year's pick and you have this really

2016
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:36,600
a palatable asset in trade talks. So I I just

2017
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:39,600
don't like the way it's being framed is, yeah, you

2018
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:42,479
could develop guys around Giannis and they will. Some of

2019
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:44,800
them will probably get better, and they can be a

2020
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,960
part of a rotation of a really good team. So yeah,

2021
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:48,800
there's merit to doing that. And if you think that

2022
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,319
Dame is gonna come back and be really good, or

2023
01:36:51,399 --> 01:36:53,439
you think you could turn his expiring contract and three

2024
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:57,640
first round picks in to a player who, along with Giannis,

2025
01:36:57,680 --> 01:36:59,720
you believe is good enough to where you're just kind

2026
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:01,600
of f shing out the roster with odds and ends

2027
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,279
or whoever you have, because let's say, let's just assume

2028
01:37:05,359 --> 01:37:07,199
they will have, because my question is can they make

2029
01:37:07,279 --> 01:37:10,239
upgrades without tapping into their first rounders, which is it's

2030
01:37:10,319 --> 01:37:12,479
really first rounder, but like you can trade a like

2031
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,479
swaps and a first if they use the mid level

2032
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:18,960
exception the bi annual this year, Okay, maybe you get

2033
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:20,960
guys that could be a part of the longer term rotation.

2034
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:25,600
But it's just I do agree that the situation is

2035
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:28,800
relatively unspectacular. But if Giannis is willing to see it

2036
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,199
through and see what it turns into, I don't know

2037
01:37:31,319 --> 01:37:32,399
why you would trade him.

2038
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 2: And that's fair, that is fair, I like, but I

2039
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:39,119
do think as an organization you still need to look

2040
01:37:39,199 --> 01:37:41,119
out for your own interest. But if that if that

2041
01:37:41,399 --> 01:37:44,399
interest best interest is to keep you honest there, because

2042
01:37:46,119 --> 01:37:46,520
that's fair.

2043
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 1: When would it be in the Bucks' best interests to

2044
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:55,000
trade Giannis without him asking for out Because I mean, well,

2045
01:37:55,039 --> 01:37:56,920
I'll follow it up with this. It's not just about

2046
01:37:57,319 --> 01:38:00,560
you don't control your pick. Let's just say you're worried

2047
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:04,199
about the return. Do we think that you're gonna get

2048
01:38:04,279 --> 01:38:09,800
materially less for Giannis next summer than you are this summer?

2049
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:12,960
Speaker 2: No, the trade value is going to remain. But I

2050
01:38:13,079 --> 01:38:16,920
will say this, if you're trading a player of Giannis's caliber,

2051
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:21,239
you can actually tell teams or a team like, if

2052
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:25,079
you can get us our own picks back, it's a

2053
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:29,199
conversation like you can see you can aim for the

2054
01:38:29,319 --> 01:38:31,960
moon here, you can ask for literally everything.

2055
01:38:34,199 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you could do that at any point. And look,

2056
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:40,239
I'll say, here's like short of one team going to

2057
01:38:40,359 --> 01:38:44,000
Portland and New Orleans and now Atlanta and just getting

2058
01:38:44,039 --> 01:38:46,399
all of the Bucks picks and then cornering the market

2059
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:48,720
on those, right. I just think this is a situation

2060
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,600
where Giannis is reportedly monitoring their free agency and off season.

2061
01:38:53,039 --> 01:38:55,800
This is a situation where you follow it through until

2062
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:58,039
Jianna says otherwise and you try and maximize the time

2063
01:38:58,119 --> 01:38:59,920
around him. But I do agree with you in the

2064
01:39:00,079 --> 01:39:03,359
sense that this idea of a gap year doing something

2065
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,640
profound internally for what's already in place, that's not a thing.

2066
01:39:08,119 --> 01:39:08,359
Speaker 2: That is.

2067
01:39:08,399 --> 01:39:12,079
Speaker 1: What I would disagree with is, yes, aj Green might

2068
01:39:12,159 --> 01:39:15,479
get better, Ryan Rowins swimming, he's back, might get better,

2069
01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:18,479
get over Andre Jackson. Those are not like, what do

2070
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:20,760
you like, what do you think those guys are gonna

2071
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:22,680
turn into in this gap year that is gonna make

2072
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:26,880
you feel holistically better about the Bucks' chances moving forward.

2073
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:29,199
This gap year would be about getting you honest to

2074
01:39:29,279 --> 01:39:32,359
sign on so that you can like, like let this

2075
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:34,279
spill into next offseason when you would be able to

2076
01:39:34,359 --> 01:39:36,800
trade because they'll have a pick, a least favorable pick

2077
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:38,880
next year, so you trade that pick, then you can

2078
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:42,000
trade twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three with a

2079
01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:45,279
twenty thirty two swap. Then you see what you could

2080
01:39:45,279 --> 01:39:48,760
attach that today. Maybe Kyle Kuzma still on the roster. Sure,

2081
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,680
that's what you're waiting for. That's what this is about.

2082
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:54,720
To me, more so than man imagine if Ryan Rollins

2083
01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:56,600
is the next like I don't know, like, who's the

2084
01:39:56,840 --> 01:39:58,680
who's the Ryan Rollins comp I'm trying to think of

2085
01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:01,760
what his off like defensively. Yeah, I'll throw out a

2086
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,479
bunch of names like what are you hoping? Or who

2087
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:05,640
are you hoping he turns into on the offensive end?

2088
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:09,640
Speaker 2: I guess is really the That's a good one. Oh

2089
01:40:10,359 --> 01:40:14,359
a more like a better ball handling Gary Neil.

2090
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:19,119
Speaker 1: Oh my god, can you get three pointers up like

2091
01:40:19,199 --> 01:40:19,720
Gary Neil?

2092
01:40:20,159 --> 01:40:23,840
Speaker 2: Get Gary Neil? If he had better ball handling, Dan

2093
01:40:24,319 --> 01:40:29,960
would have been freaking good. That was a compliment. That's

2094
01:40:30,119 --> 01:40:32,680
not like I wasn't trying to like say anything negative.

2095
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:35,439
Quite the contrary. That's a compliment. That's meant as a compliment.

2096
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:38,439
Gary Neil knew how to get shots up. He was

2097
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:40,920
limited by the fact that he was not a great ballhandler.

2098
01:40:41,079 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. You know, it feels like their games

2099
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:44,560
are played at such a different cadence. What about like

2100
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,520
Trey Man with more defense?

2101
01:40:48,319 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 2: I like that too, and probably a little bit more

2102
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:53,119
under control than Trey Man as well.

2103
01:40:54,199 --> 01:40:56,239
Speaker 1: Right, And that's that's a really good player. So like

2104
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,640
that if that's what you have, awesome rotation player on

2105
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:02,199
a really good team, but not trading you, honest, I

2106
01:41:02,279 --> 01:41:04,880
think is more about your own draft situation for sure.

2107
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:08,760
It's about him just being like a generational icon and

2108
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:10,800
why would you want you follow it through until you

2109
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:13,119
can't anymore. And it's also just he hasn't asked for out,

2110
01:41:13,239 --> 01:41:15,479
so I'm trying to leave the door open as long

2111
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:16,079
as possible.

2112
01:41:16,239 --> 01:41:19,880
Speaker 2: If I'm Milwaukee, I will say this, if they follow

2113
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:23,319
through on the idea of a quote unquote gap here

2114
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:29,239
and they want to accelerate the youth movement and the

2115
01:41:29,279 --> 01:41:32,840
effects rather the effects of the youth movement, I think

2116
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:36,119
he's pretty crucial that they look at Kyle Kuzma and

2117
01:41:36,399 --> 01:41:39,760
just either sit down with him before the season, Oh look,

2118
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:42,760
you have to play a more tea Mori into game,

2119
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:46,399
or just flat out preemptively get him out of there,

2120
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,359
because the worst thing that can happen next year is

2121
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:54,239
Kusma taking up those opportunities he is. He was so horrid,

2122
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:58,119
He was so horrid for him. I mean, I don't

2123
01:41:58,159 --> 01:42:01,279
know what the hell happened last year. Also in Washington

2124
01:42:01,359 --> 01:42:05,239
for that matter, that was just a god awful year

2125
01:42:05,319 --> 01:42:08,079
of basketball from him. And like I could be kind

2126
01:42:08,199 --> 01:42:12,119
and say, hey, look, he's probably gonna bounce back. Is

2127
01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:17,039
he like the IQ there is just not like basketball IQ. Sorry,

2128
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,960
very prit to flesh that out is not all the

2129
01:42:21,079 --> 01:42:23,279
way up there. It's a bad shot selection. On most

2130
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:25,319
nights the defense goes in and out and it's like

2131
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:31,680
it's stark degrees. I just don't trust him to kind

2132
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:35,279
of not spoil the product. In many ways of a

2133
01:42:35,359 --> 01:42:36,399
mission of a gap year.

2134
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:40,159
Speaker 1: We've seen him play better. And that's also kind of

2135
01:42:40,239 --> 01:42:43,760
like why if you could trade him right now, like

2136
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:46,199
you almost have to wonder, do you, because he's just

2137
01:42:46,279 --> 01:42:48,039
at then idea of his value.

2138
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 2: Probably and it's never great to do that. I agree,

2139
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:54,520
but I do think this like cry again then.

2140
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:56,560
Speaker 1: What I do agree with the fact that just because

2141
01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:00,319
Dame's out, Middleton's not there, if you don't have like

2142
01:43:00,319 --> 01:43:03,560
an established pecking order of someone who is like aside

2143
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,640
from Yannis going to eat up shots like Kyle Kuzma

2144
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:08,800
could just like that could be a license for him

2145
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:10,600
to go buck wild. And so yeah, you need to

2146
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:12,399
have you need to make sure that he's kind of

2147
01:43:12,479 --> 01:43:14,800
on the same page. And I think a big start

2148
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:16,880
of that is part of the appeal for Yannis is

2149
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,159
getting to play like point center or point forward, whatever

2150
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:22,239
you want to call it. So that would be a

2151
01:43:22,359 --> 01:43:24,199
huge list. Okay, you're not if you're trying to infringe

2152
01:43:24,279 --> 01:43:26,640
upon what Yannis is doing, Uh, they will tell you

2153
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:29,600
to take the ball and go home. So I'm not

2154
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:31,720
too worried about the Kusma thing other than it does

2155
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:33,239
tie back to my question that was, like, how do

2156
01:43:33,279 --> 01:43:36,520
you improve this team because you have Giannis and maybe

2157
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:38,520
the East has like three or four teams that you

2158
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:42,479
can say, oh, we believe that it's probably how many

2159
01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:45,159
teams do you guarantee Yannis is on? The Bucks are

2160
01:43:45,239 --> 01:43:47,399
gonna be better than Milwaukee right now next season?

2161
01:43:49,119 --> 01:43:51,399
Speaker 2: How many it seems like guarantee.

2162
01:43:51,319 --> 01:43:53,159
Speaker 1: In the East, Like would it be more than three?

2163
01:43:55,319 --> 01:44:02,399
Speaker 2: So let's see Cleveland, New York, Orlando. I probably still

2164
01:44:02,399 --> 01:44:05,279
have Boston. Oh not probably, I still have Boston. Again,

2165
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:07,520
we don't know what Boston's done. Like you're asking me

2166
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,840
before free agency and before potentially a bunch of traites,

2167
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:15,960
but like as so today right now I have Boston

2168
01:44:16,039 --> 01:44:19,960
over them as well. At Atlanta might be close too.

2169
01:44:22,359 --> 01:44:24,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, but look, so you're gonna be

2170
01:44:24,119 --> 01:44:26,560
in the mix. Is in the top six mix for sure? Oh,

2171
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:30,119
it's Detroit, Detroit. Yeah, right, Like there's again, but it's

2172
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:33,319
a matter of guaranteeing. And I think, like after New

2173
01:44:33,399 --> 01:44:35,319
York and Cleveland, I get a little iffy because I

2174
01:44:35,319 --> 01:44:37,800
could kind of see like the rug being pulled out

2175
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:39,920
from underneath a bunch of those teams. There's a scenario

2176
01:44:40,279 --> 01:44:42,640
at least, But the point is you're going to be competitive,

2177
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:45,760
Like how do you get better here without tapping into

2178
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:47,920
first And it's just I know we've mentioned a lot

2179
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:50,680
about the or people mentioned the non tax paymer level

2180
01:44:51,079 --> 01:44:53,560
the bi annual. So now you've decided that brook Lopez

2181
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:56,760
is gone, and like, unless you're making some other type

2182
01:44:56,800 --> 01:45:00,760
of move to preserve that flexibility, may be that fine,

2183
01:45:01,239 --> 01:45:03,560
But like then I guess Yannis is playing. If Portias

2184
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:05,159
comes back, Giannis is still gonna have to play a

2185
01:45:05,199 --> 01:45:07,119
bunch of center unless you're really just like dusting off

2186
01:45:07,239 --> 01:45:08,000
Jericho Simms.

2187
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,199
Speaker 2: Right see. And that's another thing that I'm worrying about

2188
01:45:11,239 --> 01:45:15,319
for next season two because Giannis doesn't really have that

2189
01:45:15,399 --> 01:45:18,600
off switch. He's sort of like, you know, the the

2190
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:21,439
MVP version of Alex Crusoe, Like he goes one hundred

2191
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:26,359
percent all the time, and are we like is he

2192
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:29,640
or are we as if we're the Bucks, are the

2193
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:33,239
Bucks unintentionally, of course, putting him in a situation where

2194
01:45:33,279 --> 01:45:36,439
he might be severely over taxed and thus more susceptible

2195
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:37,000
to injury.

2196
01:45:37,359 --> 01:45:41,800
Speaker 1: Oh, whenever a thirty year old with his type of

2197
01:45:42,039 --> 01:45:45,880
just physiological makeup is there, I'm always gonna worry about it.

2198
01:45:46,239 --> 01:45:47,880
Speaker 2: But I think that's that's part of the gap.

2199
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:49,359
Speaker 1: Now, if you want to say a true gap year,

2200
01:45:49,399 --> 01:45:51,439
it's Giannis you play thirty minutes a night, then you're

2201
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:53,720
done or something. That's what would be in the spirit

2202
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:54,399
of a gap year.

2203
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 2: I would support that.

2204
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:58,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what I was kind of wondering is I

2205
01:45:58,079 --> 01:46:00,439
don't know what's gonna happen with I mean, it could

2206
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:01,880
have been happening now, is like we're recording this, I

2207
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:03,920
don't know what's gonna happen with the Bobby Portis player option.

2208
01:46:04,039 --> 01:46:06,800
But I was wondering, just because Boston's looking to trim

2209
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:10,960
a crap ton of money, can you grease the wheels

2210
01:46:11,239 --> 01:46:14,640
of trading let's say Pat Connaton into someone's non tax

2211
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:17,039
mid level or in Brooklyn's cap space without using a

2212
01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:20,520
first send Bobby Portis to Boston, who could use a

2213
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,760
big if he opts in I'm assuming and then get

2214
01:46:24,199 --> 01:46:25,279
Anthony Seimer.

2215
01:46:29,319 --> 01:46:36,720
Speaker 2: That's creative. And Simon's would be offensively speaking, not defensively,

2216
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:40,239
but offensively speaking, would be a wonderful fit because he

2217
01:46:40,359 --> 01:46:42,960
can mimic so many of the actions of Dame while

2218
01:46:43,039 --> 01:46:44,319
obviously not being Dane.

2219
01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:49,079
Speaker 1: The problem is, and I think you would be okay

2220
01:46:49,159 --> 01:46:51,880
with it, just based off if you're giving up your

2221
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:54,359
twenty Like, is it your twenty thirty two second enough

2222
01:46:54,399 --> 01:46:56,279
to get someone to take on Conaton for the year.

2223
01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:58,520
Speaker 2: That's the one I wanted to circle back on, because like,

2224
01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,399
let's just jump back to the implication or not the

2225
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:07,079
assumption that someone just takes Pat Conninson. I I don't

2226
01:47:07,119 --> 01:47:09,520
know if his second is enough a couple seconds.

2227
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,319
Speaker 1: Maybe they I should look at their picks they have available.

2228
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:15,359
Speaker 2: I don't even know how many how many they have left.

2229
01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:17,239
Speaker 1: Let's see, I'm not giving I will say I'm not

2230
01:47:17,279 --> 01:47:19,720
giving up a first round pick or swap to do it.

2231
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:23,640
Does it bother you at all? Though, because it's like, Okay,

2232
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:26,640
your guess you're viewing Simon's is probably a rental in

2233
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:27,960
that scenario because you don't want to well, I guess

2234
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,640
if you're trading Dame next offseason. Simon's is pretty young,

2235
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:32,319
you can maybe even look at bringing him back, so

2236
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:35,920
like that's and look his spacing around Giannis, I would

2237
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:37,840
love that. That's why I was like thinking of I

2238
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:39,359
kind of thought of like some maybe three and D

2239
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:43,600
wing placeholders, whether it was a like Andrew Wiggins. I

2240
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:45,600
think if they put their distance first on the table,

2241
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:47,319
by the way, they could probably get a Cam Johnson.

2242
01:47:47,359 --> 01:47:50,119
I'm just not if the plan is to go all

2243
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:52,840
in next summer, I'm just not touching my first round

2244
01:47:52,880 --> 01:47:53,840
stash was the goal here.

2245
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:54,479
Speaker 2: So yeah, they have.

2246
01:47:56,039 --> 01:48:00,640
Speaker 1: Utah's pick in twenty twenty six, which is yeah, they're

2247
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:01,399
probably gonna.

2248
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:06,039
Speaker 2: Scrubbing me for something. But we're talking about like when

2249
01:48:06,159 --> 01:48:10,520
Dame returns are are it feels like we're just glossing

2250
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:14,159
over like it's an Achilles tear for someone who is

2251
01:48:14,279 --> 01:48:17,680
just about to turn thirty five. Can we just cover

2252
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:20,880
real quick what kind of state do we anticipate Damian

2253
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:22,000
Lillert being back in.

2254
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:25,399
Speaker 1: I think the I well one, if you're viewing him

2255
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:28,039
as like a player for this team, that's a huge

2256
01:48:28,119 --> 01:48:30,279
question that I don't think you can have an answer for, right.

2257
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:33,239
But for the buck from the Bucks's perspective, I think

2258
01:48:33,239 --> 01:48:35,239
they viewed him as like a massive expiring salary. They

2259
01:48:35,279 --> 01:48:37,439
would then look to move attached to those picks, which

2260
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,199
is why Simons is interesting, because if you're moving Dame,

2261
01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:42,960
bringing back Simons makes a ton of sense. I'm talking

2262
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,680
about after this year, but yeah, I mean it's an

2263
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:47,520
Achilles tear for someone in his mid thirties.

2264
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 2: What are we supposed to expect.

2265
01:48:49,039 --> 01:48:51,600
Speaker 1: It's I don't know what to expect when Tatum comes back.

2266
01:48:52,479 --> 01:48:55,239
Speaker 2: Right, And it's also heavily implicated that with both Tatum

2267
01:48:56,279 --> 01:48:59,079
and Halliburton that one thing is the full miss year

2268
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:02,800
and the second here that's when they like get back

2269
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:04,880
into the rhythm of things. So it's actually not a

2270
01:49:05,039 --> 01:49:08,439
one year thing. It's more like an eighteen month thing

2271
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:12,039
that's here that just gets even tighter with Dame.

2272
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it does. But again it's one year.

2273
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:18,920
And so if you're getting off and they're giving i

2274
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:21,520
mean Bucks, if the Bucks next year are trading giving

2275
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:23,640
you the rights to twenty thirty one, twenty thirty two,

2276
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:27,000
and twenty thirty three to outright one swap, my god,

2277
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:29,399
I think that you could probably do something pretty spot.

2278
01:49:29,399 --> 01:49:31,199
I don't know what But there'll be a team out

2279
01:49:31,239 --> 01:49:32,920
there that would like Dame is Oh, it's a lot

2280
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:36,159
of money, but he'll be available and it's.

2281
01:49:36,079 --> 01:49:36,520
Speaker 2: For a year.

2282
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:42,880
Speaker 1: I did think, right, yeah, here's the player. Now you're

2283
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:44,319
asking me to zoom. I wanted to ask you something

2284
01:49:44,359 --> 01:49:47,720
very quickly first. Oh, sorry, would you trade? Just straight up?

2285
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:49,720
I mean you have to make the math work maybe somehow.

2286
01:49:50,079 --> 01:49:52,159
If you're the Bucks and he's willing to wave his

2287
01:49:52,239 --> 01:49:54,399
no trade clause, do you trade Dame for Bradley Beal?

2288
01:49:56,319 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 2: Oh? It feels as though Bradley Beal has become like

2289
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:07,880
the in person infination of like desperation. You get that

2290
01:50:08,119 --> 01:50:10,880
immediate return. But I don't even know how good he

2291
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,239
is anymore because he's played two years in Phoenix where

2292
01:50:13,239 --> 01:50:15,840
he's kind of been hidden away. If he comes back

2293
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:18,720
to a team where he has this high volume roll,

2294
01:50:18,920 --> 01:50:21,560
is he going to be like the Wizard's version of

2295
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:25,199
Bradley Beale who was always kind of overrated? If you

2296
01:50:25,239 --> 01:50:32,239
ask me, so, we can still do the whole thing

2297
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:35,960
as we can with with Dame. Where going into the

2298
01:50:36,039 --> 01:50:39,800
final year of his contract, Well, no, because the no

2299
01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:42,279
trade clause transfers, right.

2300
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, transfer?

2301
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 2: So no, no, no, then no, yeah, no, hell no.

2302
01:50:48,399 --> 01:50:52,159
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe if Phoenix stockpiles enough shooting guards he would

2303
01:50:52,159 --> 01:50:55,520
agree to relinquish his no trade clause as part of getting.

2304
01:50:55,319 --> 01:50:58,560
Speaker 2: To the Bucks. Yeah, but if that just real, you

2305
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:01,399
can he remove it like per eminently from his contract

2306
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:02,680
after having made it to.

2307
01:51:02,680 --> 01:51:04,640
Speaker 1: The Yeah, I believe he can. We could check with

2308
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:05,960
Keith Smith, but I'm pretty sure that he could.

2309
01:51:06,239 --> 01:51:08,560
Speaker 2: If they can do that, that changes the mathematics a

2310
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:09,359
little bit from my end.

2311
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:11,800
Speaker 1: Yes, So who is the player?

2312
01:51:12,239 --> 01:51:12,840
Speaker 2: Is what you act?

2313
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: So I'll throw out a couple of Well that.

2314
01:51:15,039 --> 01:51:17,720
Speaker 2: Was harsh, My apologies, because I'm asking you to name,

2315
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:20,359
like one guy. What I'm asking you actually is what

2316
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:21,920
echelon of player.

2317
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:27,000
Speaker 1: I think at a bare minimum, bare minimum, it would

2318
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:29,800
have to be in the lowry market in ballpark.

2319
01:51:31,279 --> 01:51:34,319
Speaker 2: Does that Is that enough? Like that ball bark not

2320
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:36,399
Lauri marketing specifically, but a player.

2321
01:51:36,239 --> 01:51:38,119
Speaker 1: That well, maybe that's the player doesn't cost you like

2322
01:51:38,239 --> 01:51:39,960
every single pick is part. I mean, I don't know,

2323
01:51:40,079 --> 01:51:42,560
he probably would, So I mean, what about Okay, what

2324
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:43,439
about LaMelo ball?

2325
01:51:46,720 --> 01:51:54,159
Speaker 2: You're asking me? Okay, obviously I'm not interested in LaMelo

2326
01:51:54,239 --> 01:51:55,880
you know who. You know how I stand on that.

2327
01:51:56,640 --> 01:52:00,880
But in that echelong of player in terms of just

2328
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,439
the raw production level. I get what you're trying to

2329
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:08,439
sell here. I would want to I want someone who

2330
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:11,840
can actually stay on the floor, though, I think that's

2331
01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:12,560
pretty important.

2332
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:14,680
Speaker 1: Well, I'll trying to get into names. These are relative.

2333
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:18,199
What about Anthony Davis? Maybe the mazard like reorienting around

2334
01:52:18,239 --> 01:52:19,479
Cooper Flag next summer, so.

2335
01:52:19,720 --> 01:52:24,079
Speaker 2: It'd being Gianni's and Anthony Davis and then like Simon.

2336
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:31,479
We see, but that's the thing. So let's say they

2337
01:52:31,479 --> 01:52:34,800
actually get two guys in there, just for argument's sake.

2338
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:38,439
Let's say LaMelo Bawl. Right, so Jannis LaMelo, and then

2339
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:42,680
they still have Simons, I guess in the scenario, Yeah,

2340
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:43,840
the scenario.

2341
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:45,560
Speaker 1: Where we had them trade for Simons from Boston and

2342
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:47,960
get content into Brooklyn or other teams.

2343
01:52:48,079 --> 01:52:50,920
Speaker 2: Okay, well, you know, and and he'll be he's an

2344
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:52,960
expiring so he'll be on a new deal at that point.

2345
01:52:53,119 --> 01:52:58,239
Simon's if we assume he's being resigned. So how do

2346
01:52:58,359 --> 01:53:00,800
they get the depth? Because okay, I can. Let's say

2347
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:04,600
I buy Giannis LaMelo Anthony Simons as your top three

2348
01:53:04,640 --> 01:53:05,359
guys and then.

2349
01:53:05,399 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 1: You're assuming, okay, they use the mL e this year,

2350
01:53:09,199 --> 01:53:11,279
Like maybe that gets them Gary Trent Junior back, which

2351
01:53:11,279 --> 01:53:13,119
is maybe that in that case, you're wondering why would

2352
01:53:13,119 --> 01:53:14,960
they want Simon's but he could. I think he's got

2353
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:17,720
a little bit more creation to him. Okay, Gary Trench Junior,

2354
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:20,600
so they have like and my god, could you imagine

2355
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:23,439
Giannis being dotted by Gary Trent Junior and Anthony Simons.

2356
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:25,920
You're playing without a point guard anyway, put Ryan hot

2357
01:53:26,079 --> 01:53:28,880
Rollins on the floor. But we got three guys right there.

2358
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:30,960
I don't know who your bit we've given up Bobby

2359
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:32,800
Portis and Pat Commenton in that scenario.

2360
01:53:33,399 --> 01:53:36,119
Speaker 2: But yeah, and where's Kusman all this?

2361
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:42,920
Speaker 1: I mean, he's still on your books. Look, he becomes

2362
01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:44,920
an expiring contract too after the season though.

2363
01:53:45,399 --> 01:53:48,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, this is what I've been missing from, you know,

2364
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:53,600
Bucks people, this conversation where it's really in, like where

2365
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:55,399
we go into the weeds about it and where we

2366
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:58,920
kind of you know, extend our minds a little bit,

2367
01:53:59,119 --> 01:54:01,960
like how do we actually get there? Because now there's

2368
01:54:02,039 --> 01:54:05,079
like an outline I think of a plan that makes

2369
01:54:05,199 --> 01:54:09,399
on some level sense. But everything I've seen has always

2370
01:54:09,439 --> 01:54:12,279
been oh gap year automatically, like back in the swing

2371
01:54:12,359 --> 01:54:14,920
of things. This is more like it. If you can

2372
01:54:15,039 --> 01:54:19,239
make some of those smaller trades, it's like a stepping

2373
01:54:19,279 --> 01:54:22,920
stone piece to a guy. And when I say a guy,

2374
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:25,279
I don't necessarily mean a star. I thought your example

2375
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:28,039
of Fanfrety Simon's is right on the money. That's a

2376
01:54:28,119 --> 01:54:30,079
guy that's a good player, but he's not a star.

2377
01:54:30,239 --> 01:54:34,960
He's star adjacent. If we're being cut somewhere along those lines.

2378
01:54:35,279 --> 01:54:37,479
Speaker 1: And by the way, the other thing that they could

2379
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:41,239
try and do is like, can you recoup any other

2380
01:54:41,319 --> 01:54:43,520
assets that because you don't have anyone on your books

2381
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:45,560
that's worth a first round pick? I would think on

2382
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:47,920
their own. But like, if you're willing to sign and

2383
01:54:47,960 --> 01:54:50,960
trade brook Lopez somewhere right now, the team, that team

2384
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:53,119
becomes hard keppted, like, could you get a swap? Could

2385
01:54:53,159 --> 01:54:54,760
you get a first round? But like if the Lakers

2386
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:56,640
they're not under the first apron, But like, is a

2387
01:54:56,720 --> 01:54:58,720
theory would the Lakers give.

2388
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:01,239
Speaker 2: You a pick or a swap or brook Lopez?

2389
01:55:01,319 --> 01:55:03,399
Speaker 1: Is there another team out there that would consider, Like

2390
01:55:03,479 --> 01:55:06,159
that would be another avenue to consider, or maybe it's

2391
01:55:06,279 --> 01:55:09,239
just a matter of we're taking on money that's worse

2392
01:55:09,359 --> 01:55:11,439
this year and it's still expiring, or it has no

2393
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:14,159
worse than you know, like even just the Lakers as

2394
01:55:14,199 --> 01:55:16,439
an example, like if the Bucks were willing to take

2395
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:19,800
on who has like two years left on their deal

2396
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,399
with the Lakers, that's just sort of like meh money,

2397
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:24,399
or maybe it's more empty money, like could you get

2398
01:55:24,439 --> 01:55:26,840
compensated for if the Lakers wanted Bobby Portis and we're

2399
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:29,479
giving you Maxi Kliba just as an example, it's like

2400
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:31,760
what are they giving you to go from that? I

2401
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:38,720
think the Bucks's gap year is unconventional, so I just

2402
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:42,159
don't like it. The phrasing is wrong, and you're right,

2403
01:55:42,239 --> 01:55:44,119
there's probably been a lack of context. I've seen too

2404
01:55:44,199 --> 01:55:46,600
much of it built around you use the mid level,

2405
01:55:47,119 --> 01:55:48,920
use the BA, and you have these young guys and

2406
01:55:49,000 --> 01:55:50,680
like that's how you bring yourself back. I think it's

2407
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:53,920
really more about can you position yourself to open slash

2408
01:55:53,920 --> 01:55:56,640
acquire more assets and then what can you turn those

2409
01:55:56,680 --> 01:55:58,640
assets into? But I also think an important part of

2410
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:00,960
it is what can you do? Is there anything you

2411
01:56:01,039 --> 01:56:03,359
can do to reorient the op like in Anfrey Simon's deal,

2412
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:05,399
I don't Again, I don't know if that's feasible. But

2413
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:07,720
Boston's really looking to cut money. If they just have

2414
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:10,199
to take back Bobby Portis for Anthony Simons in that

2415
01:56:10,319 --> 01:56:14,840
multi team construction, that saves them what like twelve another

2416
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:18,359
twelve and a half million before taxes. So that's like,

2417
01:56:19,159 --> 01:56:20,720
that's what I think of when I'm thinking of the

2418
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:22,720
twenty five twenty six Milwaukee Bucks with you.

2419
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:26,399
Speaker 2: Honest, I do have like a wild thing out here,

2420
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:29,760
Like it's I don't know if I trust it, and

2421
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:34,359
I haven't. I haven't really calculated this perfectly yet. So

2422
01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:40,800
going into twenty twenty six, assuming it's Jannis and Dame

2423
01:56:41,039 --> 01:56:45,159
on the books, that's fifty eight what's that? That's almost

2424
01:56:45,159 --> 01:56:46,960
one hundred and twenty million. What's the cab going to

2425
01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:49,560
be next year presumably like projected.

2426
01:56:49,359 --> 01:56:52,119
Speaker 1: Next year's number. So the twenty five to twenty six cap, right,

2427
01:56:52,479 --> 01:56:55,239
I mean the twenty seven cap. Yeah, excuse me, that's

2428
01:56:55,279 --> 01:56:56,960
gonna be one seventy point one million.

2429
01:57:00,199 --> 01:57:03,680
Speaker 2: So that's just short of being able to offer a max, right, Well, but.

2430
01:57:03,880 --> 01:57:06,520
Speaker 1: You have to factor in minimum roster chargers. There's gonna

2431
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:06,880
be other.

2432
01:57:07,399 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 2: Right, That's that's the thing. But it's like, even even

2433
01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:12,119
if you disregard all that, it's just it's still like

2434
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:13,319
it's still coming.

2435
01:57:13,119 --> 01:57:14,880
Speaker 1: To you could get You could have, like if they

2436
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:18,359
really just emptied the roster of every salary and they

2437
01:57:18,520 --> 01:57:21,520
replaced it with rookie minimums like one point three million

2438
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,960
whatever that number, like the zero year experience, you could

2439
01:57:25,039 --> 01:57:28,760
have like it'd be less than forty million in cap

2440
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:30,439
space at that point, which.

2441
01:57:30,319 --> 01:57:32,880
Speaker 2: Is just well, see that's the issue. So basically you

2442
01:57:33,319 --> 01:57:37,399
have to what I think, Dame, it's like because you

2443
01:57:37,439 --> 01:57:39,399
know where I'm going here, you know where I'm going.

2444
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:44,960
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Luka Dancic, I know where you're going. So

2445
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:47,640
you would have to wipe off Dames money somehow.

2446
01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:50,640
Speaker 2: I take back Mega cheaper. But I think that's actually

2447
01:57:51,239 --> 01:57:51,920
I think what is.

2448
01:57:51,960 --> 01:57:54,039
Speaker 1: The important number for the bucks is so the second

2449
01:57:54,079 --> 01:57:57,720
apron in twenty six twenty seven is two hundred and

2450
01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:00,800
twenty eight point six million, Like that's what we're assuming

2451
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:03,000
they want to stay under. So you do have some

2452
01:58:03,079 --> 01:58:06,359
wiggle room, like to retain talent that you might get

2453
01:58:06,439 --> 01:58:09,840
this year, or to just if you're making a big swing.

2454
01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:12,720
So I understand the appeal. I really think I'm just

2455
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:15,119
curious to see I look at it this way. I

2456
01:58:15,279 --> 01:58:18,319
don't think Gianness is going to request a trade this offseason.

2457
01:58:18,359 --> 01:58:20,640
He would have to really sit there, excuse me, and

2458
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:22,239
think they're not going to be able to do anything

2459
01:58:22,279 --> 01:58:24,920
next summer. But I think early on next summer, leading

2460
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:27,079
into the draft, like that's kind of the inflection point

2461
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:30,680
for me. Maybe maybe he does request the trade this summer,

2462
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:32,199
but I don't know.

2463
01:58:32,479 --> 01:58:34,920
Speaker 2: I think that that's what they were by the deadline.

2464
01:58:36,399 --> 01:58:39,880
Speaker 1: Man, if he gets moved mid season, well, I mean no, no.

2465
01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:42,840
Speaker 2: No, no, no, he might demanded that the deadline, like

2466
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:44,880
he might play, you know, half a season and just

2467
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:47,000
like oh this is this is just off the rails.

2468
01:58:47,079 --> 01:58:50,119
This isn't working, and he's looking at like the projection

2469
01:58:50,239 --> 01:58:52,640
sholf next year and then he says no, this like

2470
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:53,319
there's no way.

2471
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:55,840
Speaker 1: This is all to say for me at least, I

2472
01:58:56,079 --> 01:59:01,920
don't see like a high percentage path back to being

2473
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:04,399
a viable title contender as the Bucks kind of no

2474
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:07,159
matter what happens or what they do next summer. But

2475
01:59:07,279 --> 01:59:10,399
I do see like when you map out all these

2476
01:59:10,439 --> 01:59:11,840
different things, and a lot of them, you have to

2477
01:59:11,880 --> 01:59:13,479
get lucky. It has to go right. You have to

2478
01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:16,399
nail these these signings this summer, any trades that you

2479
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:18,680
have to nail them I could see a team that

2480
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:22,720
is good enough to convince Jiannis to stay a little

2481
01:59:22,760 --> 01:59:26,439
bit longer, and that is the purpose of the gap year,

2482
01:59:26,479 --> 01:59:28,720
because to me, if I'm the Bucks, it's not about

2483
01:59:29,279 --> 01:59:31,399
actually winning another title for Yannis or being one of

2484
01:59:31,439 --> 01:59:34,079
the two best teams in the conference or the league.

2485
01:59:34,119 --> 01:59:37,600
It's how do I get good enough to entice this

2486
01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:42,239
guy to stay and ride this out for another two years.

2487
01:59:42,279 --> 01:59:45,239
So you're almost buying yourself. What's appealing for a gap

2488
01:59:45,319 --> 01:59:47,319
year for the Bucks is if Yannis is on board,

2489
01:59:47,359 --> 01:59:49,880
You've bought yourself another season of Yannis, And so it's

2490
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:51,800
how do I buy another season? Apt Like it feels

2491
01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:54,399
like that's how they they're gaming this situation.

2492
01:59:55,079 --> 01:59:59,239
Speaker 2: You know what, you actually just managed to unearth what

2493
01:59:59,439 --> 02:00:02,479
it is that I've been I've been unable to work

2494
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:05,000
this the right way, But I think you just kind

2495
02:00:05,039 --> 02:00:07,399
of triggered something in my mind that now makes me

2496
02:00:07,479 --> 02:00:11,560
think why I'm I'm slightly annoyed to this situation. It's

2497
02:00:11,640 --> 02:00:16,680
the it's the assumption of Giannis's continued goodwill. I think

2498
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:19,279
that's the thing where everyone is like, oh, but he

2499
02:00:19,319 --> 02:00:21,560
loves it here, like he's gonna say he's he wants

2500
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:24,159
to do this and like, yes, but he's also a

2501
02:00:24,239 --> 02:00:27,319
competitive freak. He absolutely wants to win. And I think

2502
02:00:27,359 --> 02:00:29,960
it's the assumption that oh, no, no, no, this is fine,

2503
02:00:30,640 --> 02:00:33,319
this is fine, that's right. I have not to be sure.

2504
02:00:33,319 --> 02:00:35,359
Speaker 1: I've not seen a lot of Bucks fans thinking that it's.

2505
02:00:35,279 --> 02:00:37,520
Speaker 2: Oh I thought I have. It's like, oh no, no,

2506
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:41,239
why would he leave. It's like, well, because here's a why.

2507
02:00:41,359 --> 02:00:43,920
Highly highly competitive, Yeah exactly.

2508
02:00:43,800 --> 02:00:46,239
Speaker 1: There's a clear why. It's just whether he wants to,

2509
02:00:46,479 --> 02:00:48,920
you know, capitalize on that. And I could see, Look,

2510
02:00:49,319 --> 02:00:51,840
the emotional component here absolutely matters, and it's you don't

2511
02:00:51,840 --> 02:00:55,239
matter anymore. Getting that getting that title is massive when

2512
02:00:55,279 --> 02:00:58,520
it comes to this discussion, because he will always yeah, like.

2513
02:00:58,560 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 2: They've done great building up like that emotional cachet or

2514
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:04,079
whatever you want to call it, Like they've that's that's

2515
02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:07,159
and that's they should be credited for that. That's why

2516
02:01:07,239 --> 02:01:09,760
we're even having this discussion. I just think it's the

2517
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:14,000
continued assumption that oh, yeah, like it's fine. That that

2518
02:01:14,239 --> 02:01:18,079
just bothers me because obviously we've seen before with so

2519
02:01:18,239 --> 02:01:21,880
many other players, if they're stuck in a situation where

2520
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:27,159
the team has moment of reability whatsoever. Like they're sitting

2521
02:01:27,199 --> 02:01:29,840
there going, hey, what's the plan? Like Demants is a bonus?

2522
02:01:29,880 --> 02:01:33,159
Who is a significantly inferior player to Jhanna Sons is

2523
02:01:33,279 --> 02:01:36,880
like asking the Kings for a sit down, going, guys,

2524
02:01:37,319 --> 02:01:40,560
what are we doing? Like it's I just think it's

2525
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:45,000
reasonable for someone of this caliber to be skeptical. And

2526
02:01:45,119 --> 02:01:49,239
I think it's the feeling of dismissiveness I think I

2527
02:01:49,279 --> 02:01:51,600
see from the fan base that just irks me the

2528
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:52,079
wrong way.

2529
02:01:54,279 --> 02:01:56,479
Speaker 1: I think it's a complicated discussion to have. I think

2530
02:01:56,600 --> 02:01:58,439
is really what it is, and it can only be

2531
02:01:58,560 --> 02:02:01,359
done in forms that allow for like extended debate like

2532
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:02,199
this did.

2533
02:02:02,399 --> 02:02:02,479
Speaker 2: Right.

2534
02:02:02,600 --> 02:02:04,640
Speaker 1: I think we did it justice to mapping out all

2535
02:02:04,640 --> 02:02:06,319
the different I'm interested to see where it goes. I'm

2536
02:02:06,439 --> 02:02:07,960
rooting for Giannis to stay in Milwaukee.

2537
02:02:08,239 --> 02:02:08,720
Speaker 2: I like that.

2538
02:02:09,079 --> 02:02:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm still roman pick in that respect, but I also

2539
02:02:11,079 --> 02:02:14,439
like seeing the best players play like on the biggest

2540
02:02:14,439 --> 02:02:17,800
stages and not markets, I mean, like deep into the playoffs.

2541
02:02:17,920 --> 02:02:20,720
Speaker 2: Just to be clear, you're certainly romantic in the only

2542
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:21,680
fans common section.

2543
02:02:21,960 --> 02:02:25,560
Speaker 1: Yes, I paint some vivid pictures in those only fans

2544
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:29,760
common sections, don't I More? I think, do you have anything. Damn,

2545
02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:32,239
we just did two hours on Central Division teams.

2546
02:02:33,800 --> 02:02:36,760
Speaker 2: No, I think we got it covered. I really appreciated

2547
02:02:37,319 --> 02:02:40,199
like the Gianna's breakdown. Honestly, I think that was nice.

2548
02:02:40,239 --> 02:02:43,439
I think that was necessary because you're absolutely right, this

2549
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:46,720
isn't one of those it's Camp A or Camp BE.

2550
02:02:46,960 --> 02:02:48,760
Look this it's a situation full of nuance.

2551
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 1: This is you guys want deep cuts and peaks behind

2552
02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:53,319
the curtain about This is Grant and I talk about

2553
02:02:53,359 --> 02:02:55,319
this all the time when we're trying to structure our content,

2554
02:02:56,000 --> 02:03:00,439
the hyper localization of let's say NBA coverage specifically. And

2555
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:02,199
I mean this as a compliment, and I've said this

2556
02:03:02,279 --> 02:03:03,880
to when I have people on for the season. Look, kids,

2557
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:07,399
it's gotten so good and it is so saturated that

2558
02:03:08,399 --> 02:03:10,399
people like you and me are just gonna be more

2559
02:03:10,479 --> 02:03:14,880
casually dismissed at by fans of that team because we're

2560
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:16,479
not gonna provide the same We're not gonna have the

2561
02:03:16,479 --> 02:03:19,199
same emotional attachment, so we're not gonna provide that component

2562
02:03:19,239 --> 02:03:21,079
of the coverage, and then we're not covering that team

2563
02:03:21,119 --> 02:03:24,079
as intimately. What I will say is like this podcast

2564
02:03:24,239 --> 02:03:25,920
is built to be like just we're just here for

2565
02:03:26,039 --> 02:03:28,439
vibes and fun. We want to have fun and like

2566
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:31,520
not get heated, but like we are when you talk

2567
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:35,439
about toxic national coverage, like talking about Gianni's future and

2568
02:03:35,520 --> 02:03:38,079
what we just did is not it like if you

2569
02:03:38,319 --> 02:03:40,279
don't want the Steven A. Smith yelling and it's the

2570
02:03:40,319 --> 02:03:43,159
same debate over and over again, Like we're the alternative

2571
02:03:43,199 --> 02:03:44,960
to that. I still believe and I've I've kind of

2572
02:03:44,960 --> 02:03:46,720
seen that. I don't think people believe that there's as

2573
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:48,760
much of a place for people covering the entire MBA.

2574
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:52,439
I'm just using this specifically, and I think that there is,

2575
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:55,079
and I think that this podcast, your podcast, like we

2576
02:03:55,199 --> 02:03:57,119
straddle that line of trying to do it, like try

2577
02:03:57,159 --> 02:03:59,920
to come from a genuine place. We're wrong all the time,

2578
02:04:00,159 --> 02:04:02,520
but like we have and I'm gonna say this, we

2579
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:05,680
have a better snapshot view of the entire league and

2580
02:04:05,800 --> 02:04:08,800
of these situations at large then some of like the

2581
02:04:08,920 --> 02:04:11,079
localized content because we're more removed from it.

2582
02:04:11,159 --> 02:04:12,079
Speaker 2: They're both they.

2583
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:16,880
Speaker 1: Can work in service together and yes, yes, having these discussions. Yeah,

2584
02:04:17,119 --> 02:04:18,880
I would say having these discussions if you want to

2585
02:04:18,920 --> 02:04:20,640
boil it down to like the Bucks should just trade you.

2586
02:04:20,680 --> 02:04:21,840
Speaker 2: Honest, they're going nowhere.

2587
02:04:23,079 --> 02:04:25,680
Speaker 1: It's it's just more complicated than that, Like if you like,

2588
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:27,760
if that's your stance and the Bucks owned all their

2589
02:04:27,880 --> 02:04:30,960
draft picks moving forward, it's easier to justify right now

2590
02:04:31,479 --> 02:04:33,800
when he hasn't asked for out. I just there's not

2591
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:36,720
much of a leg to stand on. So hopefully everybody

2592
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:38,600
enjoyed that debate more. Tell them where they can find

2593
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:40,760
you and all the non only fans content that you

2594
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:41,199
can put.

2595
02:04:41,119 --> 02:04:43,520
Speaker 2: Out right, Well, you can find me over at Yeahoo's Sports.

2596
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:46,920
You can find me at Forbes, and then the NPA podcast.

2597
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:49,439
I love how you said that my podcast, your podcast.

2598
02:04:49,479 --> 02:04:54,359
It's basically become one podcast lately over the past three months.

2599
02:04:54,439 --> 02:04:59,680
It's the same pod, same episodes more or less where

2600
02:05:01,359 --> 02:05:07,960
Yeah for Yeah, I said Forbes obviously the NBA podcast

2601
02:05:08,399 --> 02:05:10,359
if you speak Danish, buzzer Beater, and then you can

2602
02:05:10,399 --> 02:05:14,199
also find me a blue sky at MSJA NBA uh And.

2603
02:05:14,439 --> 02:05:16,199
Speaker 1: Until next time, Just as a reminder, if you made

2604
02:05:16,239 --> 02:05:17,960
it all the way to the end of this, Grant

2605
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:20,640
and I will be hosting Bleacher Reports Live Free Agency

2606
02:05:20,680 --> 02:05:22,640
Show on Monday. It'll be in their app and YouTube

2607
02:05:22,720 --> 02:05:26,399
channel from one pm to three pm Eastern time. That's ten.

2608
02:05:27,239 --> 02:05:27,439
Speaker 2: I know.

2609
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:29,920
Speaker 1: Look, we were we were bumped from the primetime spot.

2610
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:32,479
We did the six to ten block last year. We've

2611
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:34,479
been I believe we've been bumped unless they're just breaking

2612
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:37,520
it down into two hour slots. So uh, and we're

2613
02:05:37,560 --> 02:05:41,840
moving on, moving on down show. We're succeeding downward. Is

2614
02:05:41,880 --> 02:05:43,880
that what? Because I still think we're doing pretty good,

2615
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:46,840
but we're succeeding downward until next time. And as always

2616
02:05:47,119 --> 02:05:49,039
with the shoutut to the one, the only, the player

2617
02:05:49,079 --> 02:05:51,399
who can actually make the bucks gap year worth it,

2618
02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:54,760
both during the gap year and after the fact, mister

2619
02:05:55,720 --> 02:05:58,359
you know what mort His name Frank Nila Keina

2620
02:06:00,159 --> 02:06:00,199
Speaker 2: S