WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:12.960 On the go, NonStop gym sessions, deadlines, homework with Avonmore, soups, comforting, flavorful, taste, 2 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:18.039 it all just hmmmm with a range of different flavors. 3 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:22.160 We've been perfecting soup for over thirty years, so you 4 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:27.000 can have a moment of delicious pleasure. So whatever it is, 5 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.359 soup it with Avonmore. 6 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:33.479 Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. 7 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:35.240 It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. 8 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.799 You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. 9 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:39.920 You love the host, You seek it out and download it. 10 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:42.640 You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even 11 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:46.240 going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. 12 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:49.280 And this is a podcast ad? Did I get your attention? 13 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:53.200 You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising 14 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:56.320 from libs in ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts 15 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:59.039 offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like 16 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.759 this one across thousands of shows to reach your target 17 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:05.439 audience and their favorite podcasts. With libsynads, go to libsynads 18 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.400 dot com. That's l I B s y n ads 19 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:09.719 dot com Today. 20 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:17.599 Maining a live man like this man letting butterfly flapping 21 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:19.680 his wing. Dig down in the forest. Man, it gonna 22 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:22.599 cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. 23 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:24.480 Man, nobody see nobody else. 24 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:32.239 You don't need no man, you don't like you followed 25 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:34.840 the little story and you got dicted like that. 26 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:37.599 Man, go back and dang. 27 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:37.959 On the panel. 28 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:39.560 Man, no matter. 29 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:49.719 Man. All right, Jeremy Slate, Welcome to Jay Burton Show. 30 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:50.319 How are you doing? Man? 31 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:51.439 Hey, I'm doing great. 32 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:51.599 Man. 33 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:52.319 Thanks for having me. 34 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.359 Yeah. You and I got connected relatively recently on social 35 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.319 media and we're going back and forth and you sent 36 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.159 me another interview you'd done. And it's always fun when 37 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:06.280 you listen. You're listening to someone for the first time 38 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.199 and you're thinking, like, oh, he's this is good, but 39 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:11.960 he's got to mention to this, and then three seconds 40 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:13.639 later you bring it up and like, ah, my man, 41 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.479 he knows exactly what he's talking about. I mean, look, 42 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:19.080 that's how you should judge anyone. Do I agree with them, Yes, 43 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:20.879 they must know what they're talking about. But in all 44 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:24.560 serious disband it was a great interview. And so if 45 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.759 you could, could you introduce yourself to my audience? Well, 46 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:27.960 who are you and what do you do? 47 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:28.800 Yeah? 48 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.439 So I'm the CEO of a company called Command Your Brand, 49 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:33.319 and for the past ten years we've been placing our 50 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:36.599 clients on high level podcasts. And then I guess, in 51 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:38.319 terms of what I've been talking about in the last 52 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.800 couple of years, my master's going back almost twenty years now, 53 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:44.719 is in early Roman Empire propaganda. I actually studied the 54 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.240 propaganda of Augustus, but in the in the last two years, 55 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.840 I've really been looking at a lot of trends that 56 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.199 have been happening, you know, in the US, in Europe. 57 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.039 And one of the major things I've looked at is 58 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.520 I've become very good at pattern recognition and I have 59 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:02.599 two different channels that I talk about this on. The 60 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.680 first is called Hidden Forces in History, and we look 61 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.520 at kind of the power structure behind history. 62 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.080 We look at banking things like that. 63 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.240 And my other channel is called the Roman Pattern, which 64 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.280 is really the main thesis. I talk about the three 65 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.319 main things that cause a civilization to collapse. And it 66 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.199 doesn't mean that you know, hey, we are Rome, but 67 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:24.520 it means that a lot of the same things that 68 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:27.439 they were doing. If you look at different civilizations collapsing, 69 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:29.719 they do a lot of similar things. 70 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:34.599 Yeah, there are several things there. One i'd almost be 71 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.599 not to say more interested, but quite interested to talk 72 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:42.280 about your degree. I'd sort of dabble in the classics. 73 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:49.120 And one of the major conclusions from reading Virgil is 74 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.719 that the idea is it's kind of like the you know, 75 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.280 the internet meme, like we wis kings. You know, it's 76 00:03:55.319 --> 00:04:00.039 sort of this like revisionist history to explain how we 77 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:04.680 actually not only is the Roman Empire super cool and awesome, 78 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.520 but also it's connected to the Trojan War. And okay, look, 79 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:10.960 there's a lot more to it than simply that, but 80 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.800 it is a very interesting element of that document that 81 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.360 isn't often discussed, at least in common circles. 82 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:20.199 Well, the thing that's interesting about it too is if 83 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.720 you look at Augustus, you know, he's coming in as 84 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:25.839 the republic's kind of fading out, but he's trying to 85 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.600 convince people that a republic still exists because Rome naturally 86 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.399 hated kings. They traditionally, before becoming a republic, had seven 87 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.480 traditional kings, and so the idea of kingship was very 88 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.560 much hated in Rome. So he had to convince people 89 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.600 he was not a king but still put himself in 90 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:44.480 a very similar position. He kind of uses like a 91 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.839 really interesting word salad to do that. But one of 92 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.319 the things that he does is he puts a big 93 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:55.759 attention on literature and the ane. It is actually one 94 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:59.480 of the things that he commissions to be written, and Virgil, 95 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.560 when putting it together, actually towards the end of his life, 96 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.639 doesn't finish the Enea, and in his will he wanted 97 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:11.360 the work destroyed if it was left unfinished, and Augustus 98 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.600 actually manages to stop that because hey, he wants this 99 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.480 epic to show you know, just how important Rome is 100 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.879 and tie it to something great like the Trojan War. 101 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.399 But really it's a masterful piece of propaganda in order 102 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.879 to tie the Romans to something that existed long before 103 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.079 them and also tie themselves to like a royal lineage, 104 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:36.000 because the character of Eneas is very interesting. He leaves 105 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.360 the Trojan War with his father Ascanius on his back 106 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.360 and walks across Italy and ends up in a city 107 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.439 called Alba Longa, which is later going to found the 108 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.399 kingdom from which Rome comes from, because Romulus and Remus 109 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.800 are from Alba Longa. So it's a really interesting tie 110 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.079 in to kind of give this mythical East Ethos to 111 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:56.720 the Romans and what they're coming out of. 112 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.519 Well, and the deep irony of that is you see 113 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:05.800 Roman itself become the founding myth for any number of 114 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.759 other societies, right, like the the Czars say, well, we're 115 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:15.480 kind of the Romans, like Kaiser Caesar like that. There's 116 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.680 the similar I say, Cope, I don't mean to say 117 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:22.399 that aggressively, but creative interpretation of history. You see with 118 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:24.000 the Germans and even. 119 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.480 Even the Third Reich, right, the third exactly is the 120 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.079 Reich comes from the German word meaning kingdom. It's the 121 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.360 third kingdom. The first kingdom is the Roman Empire, the 122 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.279 second is the Holy Roman Empire. And Hitler thought the 123 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.319 third Reich would be the third great German Kingdom. 124 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:44.079 Well exactly. And you're speaking about the patterns of history, 125 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:49.439 these foundational myths, Okay, sure, are they literal history in 126 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:53.560 the sense that you could find all the archaeological justification. No, 127 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:59.279 But functionally they are the thing which ties an empire 128 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:03.160 and nation together, the story you tell yourself about yourself. 129 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:03.879 Yes. 130 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:07.800 And one of the things that I've noticed about America, 131 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:10.800 and I think part of the reason why things have 132 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.720 gotten so weird and so crazy. Is that the most 133 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:18.879 recent version of our myth? There have been several, Right, 134 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:22.399 obviously you have the American Founders. There's sort of a 135 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:26.839 modification with Jackson. Then you know, the Civil War becomes 136 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.959 the kind of central founding of another republic, sort of 137 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:34.120 stacked on top. But really, for the last eighty years 138 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.680 it's been, you know, the story of World War Two. 139 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.480 And you see that echoed every time we pick a 140 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.079 fight with someone, right, slivanon Malasovich is, yeah, he's basically Hitler, 141 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:47.120 and Saddam Hussein he's basically Hitler. And you know that 142 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.040 myth was very powerful. It you know, sort of propelled 143 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.720 us through almost one hundred years. But as it sort 144 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.319 of starts to weaken, it seems as if there is 145 00:07:55.399 --> 00:08:00.759 no really cohesive narrative about what we are coming into 146 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:04.199 you build on it or take its place. And so 147 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.680 I'm curious. One of the things that you were speaking 148 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:13.160 about your comments on Rome is you know that an 149 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:15.759 addition to currency debasement, which we will get back to, 150 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.319 one of the other things that sort of brought about 151 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:23.040 the end of Rome was the weakening of borders. And 152 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:26.920 so before we get into that, it's probably best to describe, well, 153 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:29.720 what is a citizen? So if you could, could you 154 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:34.120 describe what a Roman citizen was and how that's different 155 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.200 from our conception of citizenship and modernity. 156 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.200 Well, so it changes a lot, and that's I think 157 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.240 something that's important to understand because if you look at 158 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:45.960 initial citizenship in Rome, and we're going back to the 159 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.600 kind of the mid republics, we're looking like three hundreds 160 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:51.960 four hundreds BC, and if you look at that, it's 161 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.159 initially people that are in Rome and kind of the 162 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.279 territories very close to that, and it's going to be 163 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.720 a real issue for kind of the Italian states outside 164 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:03.799 of Rome that they don't have citizenship. And if you 165 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.679 get towards the Late Republic, this is one of the 166 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.960 things that Marius, the great military reformer, is going to 167 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.960 push for. He's going to push for citizenship for the Italians, 168 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.679 and eventually that will get out to the point that 169 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.120 it's called the struggle of the Orders, which kind of 170 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.240 brings us to this citizenship for the Italians. So now 171 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.159 citizenship applies not just to Rome and the territories are 172 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:26.360 very close to, but also to all Italian states that 173 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:28.960 are kind of part of Rome. And the way Rome 174 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.879 expanded during the time of the Republic is it wasn't 175 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.559 initially from taxes. It was we conquer you, we put 176 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:38.159 a government in place, you give us soldiers, and we'll 177 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.360 kind of leave you alone. So Rome was able to 178 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:42.840 expand by bringing in these new territories that would fight 179 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.559 for Rome, and by serving in the legions. It's initially 180 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.759 twenty five years, it's in the later Empire it's going 181 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.360 to be closer to thirty years. You could gain citizenship, 182 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.159 and what that would mean is it's citizenship for you, 183 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:58.120 your family, your children. So you would start to have 184 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.480 more Roman citizenship in these territor tories. Now if you 185 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:06.360 get into the mid Empire, so around like to twelve, 186 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:10.320 Caracala is going to give citizenship to thirty million people overnight. 187 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.120 It's very debated why he did this, but it's thought 188 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:17.200 that the reason he did it is in order to 189 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.000 be able to tax the inheritance of these new citizens, 190 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.919 because anyone in a Roman territory paid about five percent tax, 191 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:27.039 whereas a Roman citizen paid ten percent tax. Now you 192 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.799 also got some goodies for that, like you know, if 193 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:31.840 you look in the Bible of Saint Paul, one of 194 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:33.840 the reasons he's able to travel so much is because 195 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:35.960 he has Roman citizenship. It's kind of like having a 196 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.320 golden passport in a lot of ways. And then there 197 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.799 was also something called the grain doll that every citizen 198 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.039 was allowed to have a certain amount of grain supplied 199 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.759 to them by Rome. So you do get a lot 200 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:50.679 of these benefits. And it's also the ability. This is 201 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.799 going to change a lot in the Late Empire because 202 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.320 around two eighty four the Empire becomes a lot more 203 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:01.399 you know, hard rule, a lot more autocratic in a 204 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.840 lot of ways. But in the early Empire you could 205 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.320 redress your a grievances directly to the emperor, like it 206 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.480 was something as a citizen you had a right to do. 207 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:13.480 So citizenship did have a ton of value, but there 208 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.559 were also various forms of citizenship. They would be citizenship 209 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.639 with the vote and citizenship without the vote. So it 210 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.679 was kind of a very interesting thing to be a 211 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:25.279 Roman citizen. And it's hard to define really what makes 212 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.000 a Roman and this is there was a big debate 213 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.720 on X a few months ago between one of my 214 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:32.519 favorite follows, by the way, go follow this guy if 215 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.679 you're not a Roman helmet guy and Elon Musk about 216 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.639 you know, what is romanness and how is that changing? 217 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.799 You know, Rome had always been very cosmopolitan, and I 218 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.360 guess that's the issue of how do you define what 219 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:47.559 a Roman is? Because if Rome expanded into your territory 220 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:49.639 took you over and you were there long enough, well 221 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.840 you became very Romanized because people wanted to be like 222 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.200 Rome because there was a lot of goodies you got 223 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:00.159 for having that. So that's kind of one issue. Now, 224 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.279 the thing you're going to start to see is as 225 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.879 currency starts to break down in the late Empire, and 226 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:11.279 as these generals that were declaring themselves emperor care more 227 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.840 about their civil wars between each other than their borders, 228 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.960 you start to get these enclaves developing on the borders 229 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.399 that are living with the Roman territory. They're not really 230 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.320 being Roman, and you start to have this kind of 231 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:25.399 loss of a shared reality. So I think that's one 232 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:27.320 of the major things that you're looking at as an 233 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.759 empire breaks down, is there starts to be this loss 234 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.320 of a shared reality and then people kind of aren't 235 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.159 playing the same game. 236 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.679 If that makes sense, well, definitely. 237 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:40.960 And one of the other things my Roman history is 238 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.759 a little spotty so I might be wrong on this 239 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:47.000 plus or minus one hundred years. But one of the 240 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:50.919 other things that I think is interesting looking back at 241 00:12:51.000 --> 00:13:01.840 Roman history is the relationship between effectively like ownership and citizenship. Right. 242 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.320 You know, this is the you know, the I mean 243 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.600 a lot of the controversies that led up to you know, 244 00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:12.000 the eventual birth of the empire. Right, But you have 245 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:18.960 this founding idea, however, imperfect, that we are a collection 246 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:21.919 of effectively kind of Yeoman farmers, right that you know, 247 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.600 we are people who you know, certainly fight, but you know, 248 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:29.039 a Roman is tied to a piece of land and 249 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.360 that is sort of his right. You know, this is 250 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.120 an idea that runs all the way through the West. 251 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:33.399 Right. 252 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.120 Even the American founders liked this idea. You know that 253 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.399 the British, I guess before they were even the British 254 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:42.120 did as well. And it's one of those things that 255 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.519 as that system falls apart, partially due to the influx 256 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:49.320 of slaves, but also to let's be honest again, kind 257 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.480 of the rise of you know, relatively speaking, high finance, 258 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:59.399 that connective tissue goes away, and so you have we 259 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:04.440 could say, like genetic Romans with really nothing, right that 260 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:09.360 become these sort of like welfare sponges you have, So 261 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.559 they have no tie to the land anymore. They don't 262 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.039 really own a stake per se in the empire or 263 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.879 even you know, the state of Rome past the Dole 264 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:23.519 and an incredible influx of people who are looking to 265 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.879 get a piece of that, right, And I mean you 266 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:28.679 don't have to be a genius to look around and 267 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.600 say like, wait a minute, I've seen this one before. Yeah, 268 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.799 and so we've been talking about this a lot, So 269 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:39.919 let's just kind of set the framework here. Where does 270 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:44.120 this currency debasement come from? Like how was it done? Literally? 271 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.200 And also like what what's the advantage? Why would you 272 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.000 make your coins worthless? 273 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:51.240 Well, I want to touch on the other point first 274 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.519 before I jump on currency, because that's a really pertinent point. 275 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:57.000 And if you look at you know, we talked about 276 00:14:57.080 --> 00:14:59.840 Rome being a kingdom, so it's traditionally in the West, 277 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.039 because you know, the East, the Byzantine Empire, they still 278 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.799 would have considered themselves Romans. It has three eras in time. 279 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.360 It's a kingdom first in seven fifty three, then it 280 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.639 becomes a republic in five h nine, and an empire sometime. 281 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:14.320 This is debated, but sometime between thirty one and twenty 282 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:17.919 three BC. So one of the things you're going to 283 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.120 have change in the last one hundred years of the 284 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.679 Republic is there's a guy named Gaius Marius, and he's 285 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.519 a very famous military reformer of Rome. Actually, the Roman 286 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:30.360 eagle standard is something that he creates. It's something that 287 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:34.559 he actually adds to the Roman military. Before Marius, Rome 288 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:38.679 had been very much a citizen soldiery. He actually starts 289 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:41.960 to create more of a class of professional soldier. So 290 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:45.240 that is very much a difference in how Rome is 291 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.559 going to start to function. And he mentioned people not 292 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:51.440 being tied to land after the Punic Wars and after 293 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:53.799 the reforms of Marius. This is going to be something 294 00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:56.240 that's debated for a long time. And it's actually one 295 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.320 of the biggest reasons that Julius Caesar in the Late 296 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.840 Republic is a to get the support he's able to 297 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.720 get because he wants to take land that Pompey has 298 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.200 gained through conquest and give it to veterans, because those 299 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:08.960 veterans would come back and they'd have nothing to come 300 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.000 back to because their land might have been sold in 301 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.039 the time they were gone. Because people might have expected 302 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.120 they died, so you'd have a lot of these military 303 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.639 men come back with no purpose, nothing to come back to, 304 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.240 and Caesar thought we should give them land. So this 305 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.120 is something that's actually debated quite often, is what do 306 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.679 we do with these people that don't have any land? 307 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:30.679 And it's one of the major. 308 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:35.559 Reasons that the optimatees, which is the very high end 309 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.679 political class, create a struggle with Caesar's political class, which 310 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.399 is the popularies or the kind of party of the people. 311 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.240 So that's something that has been a problem for a 312 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:47.360 very long time and actually one of the things that 313 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.639 causes the Republic to become an empire. 314 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.639 Well on that point, and sorry, sorry, I. 315 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.360 Totally at the basement point, but I couldn't miss that. 316 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.840 The problem is I want to get to it, but 317 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.200 we keep coming, we keep touching on things that are 318 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.279 really interesting. I'm sure the comments will be very kind 319 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:03.919 to us for it. 320 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.480 But in all seriousness, always ripped me apart and tell 321 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:07.839 me I don't know anything about anything, but what are 322 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:08.240 you gonna do? 323 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.920 But look, I've built a brand on not particularly knowing 324 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.799 anything about anything, so you know they're used to it. 325 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.200 But in all seriousness, one of the other things that 326 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.240 I think is an interesting parallel is the degree to 327 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:29.480 which slavery massively increased inequality in Rome. Now you could 328 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:32.119 look at that and say, no, shit, slaves are not 329 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.359 equal to a guy with a bunch of stuff. Sure, hey, 330 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:42.000 that's true. But also cheap labor effectively allows capital to 331 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:46.200 be much much more productive. Right when when you combine 332 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:51.000 that with credit, right, which is obviously helped along by 333 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:55.400 currency debasement, an unequal distribution of wealth that is becoming 334 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.799 more and more unequal, and then the cheap labor to 335 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:04.759 take that land and make it into something productive. Oh wait, 336 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.359 and also a massive scheme of you know, government contracts, 337 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.559 whether that's for grain or weapons or anything else. And 338 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:14.759 not only do you start to see the parallel, but 339 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.880 it's like, well, it's no shock that that created an 340 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:22.039 unstable system because that is going to massive Well take 341 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.680 an unequal system anyway. You know. Look, we're not communists, 342 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.440 but I think we can all say that, you know, 343 00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:31.359 even at its most liberal, Rome was not exactly, you know, 344 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.559 not exactly an equal system. 345 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:35.839 Well, it was more of an oligarchy if anything, because 346 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.119 about ten ten percent it's it's a republic, but like 347 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.039 ten percent of it is literate and it's about the 348 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.720 same you know, five to ten percent that's actually running things. 349 00:18:43.720 --> 00:18:45.319 So you're not wrong by saying that. 350 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.839 Right, And it basically takes those contradictions or takes those 351 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:53.920 tensions and ratchets them up, right. So, I mean you 352 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.079 know that you have this system. Was it the lat 353 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.480 of Fundia, right, the kind of like these massive farm 354 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:01.799 abs into Yes, these like massive. 355 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.039 Well because the rich would actually it wasn't even just that, 356 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:05.799 like you'd had a lot of fundia, but you also 357 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.359 had rich people. And this is one of the things 358 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.599 Caesar got upset about, which just start farming public land 359 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:15.839 because no one would stop them. 360 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:17.480 I mean, at a certain point you always have to 361 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.119 like admire the balls it took to do it right, 362 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.039 Like like if you just set up a farm in 363 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.440 a public park, I don't know, it's not good, but 364 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:28.759 you know there's something at. 365 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:30.400 That point in time, if you hold the power, who's 366 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:31.640 gonna stop you? 367 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.559 Yeah? True, true, But I want to go back to 368 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.119 the specific currency and it's not just like my special 369 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.519 interest is, you know, not some gold buck or something. 370 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.720 But it matters more than it than you would assume 371 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:52.519 on sort of initial impression right, So if you could describe, 372 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.920 like one, what is the temptation in this why do 373 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:58.920 rulers constantly go to this option? Like what does it 374 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.319 get you? And then when do we really start to 375 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:02.920 see that becoming a problem in Rome? 376 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.440 Well, why why do they do it? Because it's intoxicating. 377 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.880 It lets you spend money that you don't have, which 378 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.039 is which is pretty incredible. And I guess a good 379 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:16.039 example of this is the denarius, and the silver denarius 380 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:17.799 was kind of the main coin that would be used 381 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.079 in most transactions. And as the denarius starts to devalue, 382 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.200 people are going to start hoarding gold and that becomes 383 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.519 a problem that there's not gold in circulation. So the 384 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.720 gold the silver coin of the first century in Augustus, 385 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.559 that's about ninety five percent pure. By the late third century, 386 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.039 in the two eighties, it's like five percent pure. This 387 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.519 is this here is a silver coin of the late 388 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.960 third century, very rare to find because there just weren't 389 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.200 as many. But this is Valerian who was actually captured 390 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.599 by the Persian shah Shahpoor the first and actually used 391 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.200 as a footstool the rest of his life. And then 392 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.039 this is a bronze coin of a relion. This would 393 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:00.240 have been kind of the standard. A bronze coin would 394 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:01.079 be used every day. 395 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.319 So what would. 396 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.799 Happen is they would basically add other base metals to 397 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.839 those coins, and over time you kind of got to 398 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:11.960 the third century where that bronze coin that I just 399 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:13.880 showed you would be bronze and kind of had like 400 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.839 a piece of silver foil over top of it that 401 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.359