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Speaker 1: Hello and good morning. How's everything going today?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Is this Aero Collins?

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Speaker 1: Wow, what a beautiful voice you've been gifted sir.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, well, you definitely have a lively voice.

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Speaker 1: You I think. I mean, maybe it's because we're both

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poets and we know how to use our voices in

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you know, to to bring things together. You know that connection.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm always looking for a connection, I'd like to think,

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I am.

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Speaker 1: When when did you discover that you had a way

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with words?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good away with words. Oh wow, that's

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I know what I became interested in words? It was.

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Speaker 3: It was in college, that's for sure. Maybe my second semester,

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or my freshman year, maybe my sophomore year. Uh, I

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I this is an old story now for me, I

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had an experience. In the experience, uh drove me into well,

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it drove me into with hindsight, into seeking.

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Speaker 2: And then I I responded to poetry.

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Speaker 3: And it was yeah, and then I became interested in poetry.

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Speaker 1: When when you say that you were you were you

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were seeking? Is that one of the reasons why you

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were a psychoanalyst?

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Speaker 3: I think so, yes, because you've lived it. Yeah, say again,

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you've lived it. Well, I don't know what the id

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is that I'm living. I'd like to think I'm living it,

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but yeah, I don't know if I can label the it.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea that you or the title of

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the of the book, the Long Journey Out, because I mean,

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when I picked up the book and I knew that

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you were a poet, I'm going, Oh, I can't judge

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a book by its cover, but I have a feeling.

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I know where this is coming from.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and what is the feeling?

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Speaker 1: Well, the feeling is is that as as writers and

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as poets, and we have to make our words you

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know where people are will understand them. We've got to

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take a journey itself and that means that we've got

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selves in order to communicate one on one. Do you

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believe in.

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Speaker 3: That come out of ourselves? Of I don't, Well, I'm

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not sure what that means.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's let's put it this way. There are a

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lot of people who are sitting in their bedrooms writing music,

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writing poetry, writing books. They never set it free. So therefore,

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what you've done by setting this book free, a debut book,

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I mean you you have come out of yourself.

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Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: I am all for people taking the risk, and it

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is a risk right to expose what I think is

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a vulnerable part of yourself that's being expressed through your poetry,

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your songs or whatnot, or whatever the creative form medium is.

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Speaker 2: That's risky.

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Speaker 1: Did you create your own style or are you playing

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by the rules that teachers taught us way back in

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elementary school?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was a rebellious sword, so whatever. So if

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there were rules, then you could count that I'd like

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not follow them.

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Speaker 2: But when I got to.

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Speaker 3: I eventually went to an MFA program and was introduced

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to poets, and I listened to them talk, and I

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became interested in more, much more interested in the history

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the received his street, I admit, but it is what

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it is back then. And I did become interested in words.

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I did become interested in in the craft of poetry,

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in the in the forms that poetry expressed itself through.

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And I you know, I wouldn't have been known about

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it had I not gone through that program.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, when you say crafting the poetry, how do

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you keep the perfectionist at bay?

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Speaker 3: But well, I just have I want to, you know,

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feel I'm connected to myself.

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Speaker 2: I like to think that, and I just sort.

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Speaker 3: Of know when the poem's done, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I work on it, work on it, and then

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it's it's done. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You know. I may go back now and see, oh

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maybe I could change a word or two, but nothing major.

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The basic architecture is there, you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Structure is there, the movement is there.

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Speaker 3: Oftentimes, you know, with poetry, I don't know where it's going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you know that's the fun part about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, isn't it the discovery? Like whoa, I've landed upon

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the shores.

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Speaker 1: When you speak of being connected, would you say that

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writing poetry is your creative meditation.

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Speaker 3: I like the phrase creative meditation. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 2: It's meditative in a sense that.

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Speaker 3: It takes me out of my myself, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: And I've become totally.

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Speaker 3: Enthralled and engaged with this task of writing a poem.

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Speaker 1: There's so much emotion in your poetry. I mean you

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feel it. I mean you you can actually just it's

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almost like you were sitting with us and you're saying,

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by the way, I've got a few things i'd like

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to say, and you said it free and I love

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the fact that were you thinking about us while you

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were writing it?

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Speaker 3: I'd like to say I was, I'm just thinking of

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the poem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, when I say the poem.

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Speaker 3: I mean the energetic thrust, the organizing principle that I

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have to discover that is the poem what you may

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be called the feeling or something like that.

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Speaker 2: This may sound whish you watch You're wooly headed, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically the emotions that I feel are the

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interpretation that I get from it.

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Speaker 3: Well, we are you to have to tell me what

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feeling you get from the poem.

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Speaker 2: And we could talk about it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I am touched and it makes me

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happy that you If you get a feeling, I think

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that's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Well, and what I want to do is I want

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to make sure that it's not because I too, am

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the poet. And so that's when I start thinking about

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the listener. Because I was on the Barnes and Noble

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tour for two and a half years and I sat

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with more poets, people wanting to write poetry, and one

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of the lessons that we did was I had them

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go sit in the in the poetry section of the

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bookstore and tell me everything that's going on. They would

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come back in twenty minutes and say nobody came in,

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and it's like, okay, how are we going to get

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poetry out there if we can't get people in there

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into that section?

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Speaker 2: Right, you're right.

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Speaker 3: You know I used to love going to you know,

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Barnes and Nobles and bookstores and just hanging out in

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the poetry section. Yeah, you know, pulling out books, reading

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a poem and a poet. For me, either works or

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it doesn't, you know. And when I say works, it

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touches me. Literally it's a metaphor. But right, my body

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gets stirred. I moved by the poem, whatever you call that.

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And I would just read poems, go through books and

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discover poets that way.

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Speaker 1: What is your discipline when it comes to writing those poetry,

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because I mean, poets were way before Twitter became cool

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because when I called Twitter speak, we only had so

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many words we could put in there. The same is

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true about poetry. You can only put so many words together.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, there are people who write epic poems,

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and I have some poems that are you know, nine

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pages long.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it's not made for today's audious. Yeah,

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it's very slow build up the.

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Speaker 1: Name of the book, The Long Journey Out from Ronald

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Lieber will be right back. Hey, thanks for coming back

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to my conversation with poets Ronald Lieber. Basically, what is

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your discipline? How do how do you keep yourself well,

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you know, finely tuned and oiled and and and make

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sure that you stay true to what your original plan

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is because as authors it is so easy for us

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to go in any direction at any time, but you

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you stay focused through your poetry.

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Speaker 3: Well well, but I am reminded of a Yate's poem

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here when you're talking like, od did.

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Speaker 2: You bring that up?

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Speaker 3: Because I was thinking about this because he has a

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poem in which he says, you know, you see the

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figure skater and it looks so effortless to the for

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the figure skater or a basketball player, effortless, but you

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don't see all the hours that went into the uh,

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into the practice of the craft. Right, So that this

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is something ts Elio has said. So when when the

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inspiration does it, you don't fumble with the tools.

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Speaker 4: You're versed in it, so you're more literal, and then

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the inspiration has less obstacles to move through in order

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to find its outward expression.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite writing instrument? Are you handwriting

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the things out?

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Speaker 3: I was told when I was in the program, one

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of the instructors, Derek Walcott, you know, took me aside

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and he said, do you compose your poems on the

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computer the typewriter? And I said yeah, and he said

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try writing longhand and I did and it changed.

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Speaker 2: Yep. It changed the poetry. Yep, totally. There is more.

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Speaker 3: It was more relaxed, and there was an ease.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it did change it though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I learned from Julia Cameron with the

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artist way. Do not go to the computer. You write

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that thing out right right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And see my last book was it's a full story,

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but it's fifty three different pieces of poetry that made

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the story. And I knew while I was doing it

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it wasn't going to do anything because people don't really

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they're not drawn to poetry like they used to be,

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especially if it's if it's telling a full story. But

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I mean, so that's why I'm inspired by you having

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the courage to step out here saying I know poetry

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is big because there's a lot of poetry conventions and

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people are renting areas, especially Charlotte, where they're coming out

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to read their poetry.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and you know I and I'm a firm believer

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of reading poetry out loud.

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Speaker 2: Nice to hear.

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Speaker 3: The poetry because you know, first of all, it slows

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it slows me down, and then it allows me to

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inhabit the poem, you know, when I can hear it

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out loud, I love doing that.

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Speaker 2: I used to just stand in the room.

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Speaker 3: Read the poets and the poetry that I liked out loud,

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to hear it, to hear the cadence, to hear the rhythm,

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the intonations or of course those are my interpretations, but

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to read it so that it has meaning.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 3: Is that where I'm just sitting at JACKA and Joe

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went up the hell? You know, it's dead to learn

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to to try to evoke the poem that yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Have you ever let somebody else read your poetry

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out loud? Because I always think about the songwriters when

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somebody you know covers their song, it's like, oh, you're

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singing that differently than than Paul McCartney.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's you know. I have never had that thought.

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Speaker 3: Maybe that shows you how self involved I have, or

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maybe how poets are. Maybe that's the difference in poetry

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and songwriting. I have never thought that is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Just to hear your words with somebody else's inflection.

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Speaker 2: Inflection and how they.

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Speaker 3: Understand the poem or how they make meaning out of

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the poem whatever, you know, because to read a poem

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you'll have to have a sense of what it means.

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Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, that that's that's

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the emotion of it all.

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Speaker 3: Right though, right now David Mammot comes to mind because

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I remember because I like David Mammot, but he said

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something I don't want you to, you know, like method acting,

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just say the words.

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Speaker 2: So that's a whole one to eighty difference.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, see, that to me is the difference between

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a radio person and a podcaster. Where on the radio

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was like, hey, here it is four songs in a

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row without talk, you know, and you have to you

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have to, you know, use your vocals and you have

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to become that actor and sell that product, whereas in

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a podcast it's like, hey man, what's up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but it takes something to.

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Speaker 3: Hold attention to your own attention for x amount of minutes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, wow, I don't know how you do it.

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Speaker 1: I don't either. I just show up every day and

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it happens. In fact, you in fact, you even talk

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about it in a way that you know, you know.

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It's like people are always searching for answers. Sometimes we

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just need to just settle down and just accept the

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present as the present.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm with you there, Oh am I with you there.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of suffering would see if we

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could just be present to the moment. As someone said,

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just be present to the moment, and the future will

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take care of itself.

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Speaker 2: I like, I like that.

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Speaker 1: Put that on a T shirt and sport around town

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in it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, think about that for a while, because so many people.

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Speaker 2: Are oriented to a future. Yeah, that is just that,

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a future. It's not here.

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Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about you,

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Ronald and give you some love on this debut book.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do have a web Thanks for asking that

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I have a website.

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Speaker 2: I think you can get there through.

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Speaker 3: Ronald liber l I e as in Edward b as

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In boy Er dot com, ronaldliber dot com, or Ronald

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okuwake liber ok u a ki where I claim my

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Japanese heritage in my name,