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<v Speaker 1>So I am not the Richard Niggas, as it says

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<v Speaker 1>on the board over there. I'm just his friends that

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<v Speaker 1>came along to interview him. This is my good friend,

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<v Speaker 1>conservationist writer hedge Layer wants cavalryman Richard Nigus and proud

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<v Speaker 1>resident of Suffolk, possibly the finest county in England, or

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<v Speaker 1>so he says.

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<v Speaker 2>So wheah, good afternoon, everybody, Thank you very much for coming.

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<v Speaker 2>We thought there'd actually be two people and we would

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<v Speaker 2>be fighting against Morris dancers and the jingling of bells,

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<v Speaker 2>which was reassuring to hear.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why I asked my pal Richard Prudo to

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<v Speaker 2>come all the way from North Wales, a five and

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<v Speaker 2>a half hour journey to get here, is because we

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<v Speaker 2>do with another pal of mine who's actually for message.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't hold that against him. We do a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>together called country Slide, a Smear of Country Love, and

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<v Speaker 2>the purpose for us starting that podcast was that we

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<v Speaker 2>felt that there is a.

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<v Speaker 3>Lot of.

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<v Speaker 2>Mistruths, misunderstandings, just playing old squid, as we say in Suffolk,

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<v Speaker 2>spoken and written about the work in Countryside and I,

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<v Speaker 2>as Richard tells you, I'm a professional hedgeler. He is

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<v Speaker 2>a professional outdoor guide forager. So actually, if you go

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<v Speaker 2>and get one of them chaps who says you can

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<v Speaker 2>eat that mushroom, he actually knows the ones you can

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<v Speaker 2>eat and the ones that send you to Mars. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's quite a handy old thing. And so we thought

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<v Speaker 2>one of the big things that's possibly lacking in the

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<v Speaker 2>countryside is a misunderstanding of how it works now and

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<v Speaker 2>how we manage it, how farming links up with nature conservation,

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<v Speaker 2>how our food gets onto our tables, and how that

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<v Speaker 2>can be done sustainably. And also some of the actions

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<v Speaker 2>that both he and I taken here as a coppicer

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<v Speaker 2>and me as a hedge layer, that some of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that we do, which are seen by some people

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<v Speaker 2>to be almost destructive, we wanted to highlight that actually

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<v Speaker 2>these are constructive, they're regenerative.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book.

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<v Speaker 1>But I thought rather than me just coming on here

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<v Speaker 1>and whiffling the way to you about Bill Hooks, I

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was better to get Richard to come along

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<v Speaker 1>and ask questions.

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<v Speaker 3>Because every single week we talk at.

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<v Speaker 2>One another via the power of the Internet. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think that'll ever catch on the Internet, but he's he's

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<v Speaker 2>sure he will ah, And we talk to one another

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<v Speaker 2>and people seem to like it. We are Britain's most

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<v Speaker 2>popular rural podcast, unbelieve ah. And so we thought, well,

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<v Speaker 2>the turbus have come along. And yes, of course it's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of it's about my book words on the Head.

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<v Speaker 2>But also we thought that between the turb us will

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<v Speaker 2>carry on our mantra of what we do on Country

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<v Speaker 2>Slide is that we try to talk about, We try

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<v Speaker 2>to explain and.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't preach to anybody. We just tell you about

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<v Speaker 1>our lived experiences. Say yeah, because if you go online

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<v Speaker 1>you can see that there's lots basically there's nothing but conflict.

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<v Speaker 1>And in terms of if you look at any conversation

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<v Speaker 1>about the countryside, it's no, you must do this, no

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<v Speaker 1>you must do that. No those people are bad, No,

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<v Speaker 1>those people are bad. But when you actually come and

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<v Speaker 1>speak to people in real life at events like this

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<v Speaker 1>or just literally out in the field br Uhs, those

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<v Speaker 1>extremes of conversation never really come about. Actually, real interaction

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<v Speaker 1>is a lot more amicable and lot more collaborative. So

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<v Speaker 1>we try and continue those conversations that we both have

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<v Speaker 1>out with people on the ground in whatever work we

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<v Speaker 1>do and try and bring it out in our contents,

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<v Speaker 1>but we do. So I think we should start that

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<v Speaker 1>off by talking about that their book. So can you

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<v Speaker 1>hold it up for the audience to see. So what's

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<v Speaker 1>It's called Words from.

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<v Speaker 2>A hedge by Richard Nigus, and it's a hedge layer's

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<v Speaker 2>view of the countryside. I'm not saying, like so many

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<v Speaker 2>books written about nature and the countryside, that you've all

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<v Speaker 2>been doing it wrong. This is my mantra of how

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<v Speaker 2>it will get it right. That would be arrogant. And

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<v Speaker 2>the opening chapter in him is saying that anyone who

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<v Speaker 2>says they're an expert on hedgerows is a filthy lot.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's my g jau cub.

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<v Speaker 2>But no, there is a very important thing because I

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<v Speaker 2>am a proud Suffolk born and bred man, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think I know quite a lot about the hedgerows of

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<v Speaker 2>Suffolk because I've work and a.

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<v Speaker 1>Lot of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I know quite a bit about hedgerows and Norfolk because

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<v Speaker 2>I have to go north of the Waveny to go

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<v Speaker 2>and try and sort of, you know, get them back

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<v Speaker 2>into line. And I occasionally will go over into Cambridgeshire

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<v Speaker 2>as well, just because we can show them what having

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<v Speaker 2>five fingers this long but high six you have to

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<v Speaker 2>get out of this tent to live Richard, so they

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<v Speaker 2>can't run that fast on account of their gills.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, the the.

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<v Speaker 2>Thing that we wanted to achieve with writing this book

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<v Speaker 2>was to talk about that teu are a French word

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<v Speaker 2>which sadly we don't have a word for in English,

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<v Speaker 2>but the taint of the place that you understand it

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<v Speaker 2>that the soil, the climate, the way the wind blows,

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<v Speaker 2>and what that soil might do and what makes that

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<v Speaker 2>grow the wildlife species that are are present. And I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to explain about what tewar is and what that

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<v Speaker 2>means to me as a hedge layer.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the fact that.

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<v Speaker 2>I intimately know Suffolk hedges. But I'm going off to

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<v Speaker 2>Ireland in two weeks to go and headline something called

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<v Speaker 2>Hedgefest in Ireland.

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<v Speaker 3>I know that's quite cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Problem means I'm gonna have to go over there and

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<v Speaker 2>speak to a load of Irish hedge layers and tell

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<v Speaker 2>them what to do. One I'm English, so that's not

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily going to solve a problem with Oliver Cromwell. But secondly,

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea how a hedgerow grows in county

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<v Speaker 2>offerly where I'm off to, because even in Suffolk. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the things that I highlight in here is that

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<v Speaker 2>Suffolk's a big old county, but a hedgerow and new

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<v Speaker 2>Market on the chalk is a country mile away from

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<v Speaker 2>the Sandlings, just a few miles from here. But here

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<v Speaker 2>you are on the edge of the Suffolk. Boards and

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<v Speaker 2>hedges grow different here. I'm from mid Suffolk, and in

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<v Speaker 2>our high Suffolk clay you only got to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>show a maple to the soil and it's it's six

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<v Speaker 2>foot before you know it, because it's such strong soil.

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<v Speaker 2>But then if you go down to South Suffolk, they

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<v Speaker 2>grow differently again. So that whole idea that you are

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<v Speaker 2>an expert hedgelager is a nonsense.

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<v Speaker 3>You aren't you.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're any good, you know quite a lot about

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<v Speaker 2>your own little local tawa. I am therefore unashamedly parochial,

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<v Speaker 2>and that if you like. No one in all the

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<v Speaker 2>reviews that I've had of it have ever said he's

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<v Speaker 2>a right parochial bugger this by, But if they did,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say thank you, because that's actually.

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<v Speaker 3>A good thing.

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<v Speaker 1>There aren't many venues where you have to speak up

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<v Speaker 1>over the sound of the morristances are they? So let's

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<v Speaker 1>roll this back a bits. Why why hedges and why

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<v Speaker 1>are hedges importance? Why our hedges important enough for you

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<v Speaker 1>to have had a career working with them.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good question. So the hedge listening? What is

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<v Speaker 2>a hedge? A hedge is a man made construct. Some

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<v Speaker 2>people say that they're the last remnants of the old.

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<v Speaker 3>Woods, the old old woods.

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<v Speaker 2>I would wager that that is largely incorrect. We know

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<v Speaker 2>that the oldest hedgerow in Europe is English.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that it was in.

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<v Speaker 2>Existence two thousand and five hundred BC near Peterborough. And

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<v Speaker 2>we know that because the wonderful archaeologist Francis Pryor.

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<v Speaker 3>If you used to watch Time.

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<v Speaker 2>Team, he was the sensible one with the beard, who

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<v Speaker 2>understood the archaeology of their land. But he was a

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<v Speaker 2>finlander himself, and he dug around, and unlike so many

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<v Speaker 2>other archaeologists, he hasn't got old rock formations to give him,

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<v Speaker 2>and old footings from buildings and to show he's got pete.

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<v Speaker 2>But what he was able to find was in a

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<v Speaker 2>ditch just outside Peterborough, he saw a slight difference in

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<v Speaker 2>color when someone had cut a new ditch bisecting him.

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<v Speaker 2>He saw some darkened line there, and he dug down

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<v Speaker 2>into it and he found in there a small piece

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<v Speaker 2>of black and blackthorn brash. Now Francis Pryor is also

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<v Speaker 2>an amateur sheep producer, so he realized that that piece

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<v Speaker 2>of blackthorn brash had a little right angled hook on

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<v Speaker 2>the top, and that's how blackthorn grows when you've given

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<v Speaker 2>it a trim. And so he dug down more, thinking, gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is quite amazing. Stuff is Obviously he was a

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<v Speaker 2>hedge here, and it was obviously getting cut, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's quite old. And then he found more lines

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<v Speaker 2>of obviously it was hedgebrash. And then he found a

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<v Speaker 2>pleacher that had obviously had been cut and then desiccated

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<v Speaker 2>and died away.

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<v Speaker 1>But he also found on one side.

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<v Speaker 2>Of this ditch where there'd been a hedge planted alongside

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<v Speaker 2>a handcuffed ditch.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's new.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, someone's actually dug a ditch here. And over

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<v Speaker 2>here he found very high nutrient levels. And those high

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<v Speaker 2>nutrient levels can only mean one thing that there was

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<v Speaker 2>a density of livestock here he got that little old

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<v Speaker 2>piece of brash radiocarbon data two five hundred BC. It's

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<v Speaker 2>at a point when it was thought that we weren't

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<v Speaker 2>even farming. Actually we've got a laid hedge, we got

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<v Speaker 2>a handcuffed ditch, and we've got enough sheep on there.

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<v Speaker 2>So that is proper intensive farming. So when we look

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<v Speaker 2>at the hedge, and you ask me why it's important,

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<v Speaker 2>because the hedgerow is as old as we humans farming

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<v Speaker 2>in this country, and the hedge only stays as a

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<v Speaker 2>hedge with human intervention. You cannot rewild a hedge, Believe

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<v Speaker 2>you me, you cannot do it because it was planted

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<v Speaker 2>by human hand. And if it's going to not turn

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<v Speaker 2>into either a linear wood or a block of scrub,

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<v Speaker 2>it then has to be managed. And that management traditionally

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<v Speaker 2>was hedge laying or coppasing. We're into coppersing that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>trying to tell. But that intervention is another thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I think is also the most fascinating thing. Why being

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<v Speaker 2>a hedge layer is important to me because I know

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<v Speaker 2>the two five hundred years ago, if there was a hedge,

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<v Speaker 2>there must have.

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<v Speaker 3>Been a hedge layer.

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<v Speaker 2>So I would argue that my craft has got hugely

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<v Speaker 2>ancient connotations to it, but I'm not doing it for

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<v Speaker 2>the craft I don't care about. Craft does not pay

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<v Speaker 2>my mortgage. Graft pays my mortgage. So what I had

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<v Speaker 2>to do was prove to the farmers in this neck

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<v Speaker 2>of the woods that my management technique of hedgerows as

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<v Speaker 2>beneficient to their farming. So I love the idea. It's

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<v Speaker 2>got all that history and heritage like we see around

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<v Speaker 2>us today we're at a folk festival. There is ancient

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<v Speaker 2>history and heritage. But then old boys out there who

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<v Speaker 2>are dancing at the moment, they're all wearing frocks and

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<v Speaker 2>painted their faces blue and stuff like that. They have modernized,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, ancient country dances, and it's a bit like

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<v Speaker 2>my pedglay. Really, it's got an ancient connotation, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>down got a very modern relevance.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've got a mixture of history in there. You've

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<v Speaker 1>got historical land use, you've got a bit of archaeology.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that possibly the biggest part of all of

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<v Speaker 1>this for you is conservationally, So expanding my earlier question

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<v Speaker 1>out a bit, what is the what is the difference

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<v Speaker 1>between a row of trees? But something call a hedge

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<v Speaker 1>even though it's not managed anymore. And while the hedges

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<v Speaker 1>you were laying last season, what what is a conservation

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<v Speaker 1>benefit of you cutting and bending all of those trees

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<v Speaker 1>rather than just leaving them alone.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I suppose you might think, okay, So here

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<v Speaker 2>we are an arable country. Yeah, we have a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of beef on the down by the river, but and

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<v Speaker 2>there's not whoge amount of livestocket, so we think, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So what relevance as a hedge layer got in today's farm.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the large parts of my job is as

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<v Speaker 2>a conservationist, is improving biodiversity of a hedgerow. Now you

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<v Speaker 2>can have a big, tall, straggly line of trees, a

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<v Speaker 2>belt basically one that's grown out, and a turtle dove

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<v Speaker 2>will say that's a good hedge. I like that because

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<v Speaker 2>they like nesting up at the top there. But for

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<v Speaker 2>the vast majority of farmland species birds ones that are

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<v Speaker 2>sadly or too often under threat because of the various

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<v Speaker 2>agricultural practices that we had and sometimes still have, most

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff of life starts at the base. So

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<v Speaker 2>therefore a hedge which is thick from bottom to top

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<v Speaker 2>is an ideal hedge and then incrementally cut and allowed to.

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<v Speaker 3>Get slightly bigger and slide. It's all and slowly bigger

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<v Speaker 3>and taller and wider.

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<v Speaker 2>Is a great one, but it's no good unless you

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<v Speaker 2>have actually managed to thicken up the base. And he's

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<v Speaker 2>thicking up the base of the hedge by either laying

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<v Speaker 2>it or coppassing it.

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<v Speaker 3>Compassing being the traditional method of managing hedgerows in.

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<v Speaker 2>Suffolk, but we use laying because it's basically like coppasing

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<v Speaker 2>on acid.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically you get more benefit and.

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<v Speaker 1>You have less time in which the hedge has got

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<v Speaker 1>to go back.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would also argue that a laid pleacher one

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<v Speaker 2>of the stems when it comes down, there's a picture

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<v Speaker 2>that you've got lateral growth going all the way along it.

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<v Speaker 2>If I cut it off just at the base, it'll

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<v Speaker 2>grow back, but you're only getting growth going out that way.

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<v Speaker 2>With a laid pleacher, you've got growth going that way,

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<v Speaker 2>and you've also got all the way along the lateral growth.

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<v Speaker 3>When the little buds come up. Now I know, because

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<v Speaker 3>what we.

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<v Speaker 2>Do is when we look back at those laid pleachers

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<v Speaker 2>that in the bowl right down at the cup base,

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<v Speaker 2>that's where the yellowhammer physically wants to nest in that

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<v Speaker 2>little cup bowl. But I also know that the linnets

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<v Speaker 2>love it nesting along a laid pleacher, where then you're

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<v Speaker 2>starting to get upright shoots coming off that laid pleacher.

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<v Speaker 2>So we know that those two species, one red listed,

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<v Speaker 2>one amber listed, would rather nest in a laid hedge

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<v Speaker 2>than not. And we know that because we've got naturalists

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<v Speaker 2>to come and help us on the farm cluster that

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<v Speaker 2>are in this particular study that we did, and they

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<v Speaker 2>told us that there were more yellow hammer and linet

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<v Speaker 2>nests in hedges that were laid the ones which we'd

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<v Speaker 2>either coppist or left alone. So what's special about a

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<v Speaker 2>hedge over a line of trees or a hedge that's

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<v Speaker 2>just left to go to rack and ruin. We okay,

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<v Speaker 2>one there's left to go to rack and ruin that

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<v Speaker 2>eventually becomes desiccated and hollow in the bottom. So all

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<v Speaker 2>that is is a predator tunnel. So every single stoke, weasel,

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<v Speaker 2>fox and rat badger says, fantastic, this is a great place.

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<v Speaker 2>I can go and run along the middle here, and

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<v Speaker 2>I can go out and I can go and predate

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<v Speaker 2>on that great partridge nest. In other how superb is that?

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<v Speaker 2>And if it is just a tall old line of trees, well,

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<v Speaker 2>like I say, superb for a turtle.

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<v Speaker 1>Dove, possibly all right if you're a bullfin.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're one of the smaller the dunnocks, the

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<v Speaker 2>limits the yellow hammers, then it's not so good for

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00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.399
<v Speaker 2>them because they haven't got that low basal density growsing.

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<v Speaker 2>So therefore that management of the hedge enables us to

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<v Speaker 2>go and have a wider biodiversity benefit. It also enables us,

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<v Speaker 2>if you like to go and offer more protection, because

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<v Speaker 2>if you're only that big, having a bare old hedge

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00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:29.120
<v Speaker 2>to run around in the bottom of, you've got a

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00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.879
<v Speaker 2>lot less chance to survival. And when you're that tiny,

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00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.799
<v Speaker 2>life is pretty damn dangerous. So the more top cover

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00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.879
<v Speaker 2>that you have, well, the better you are. So laid hedges,

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<v Speaker 2>say wildlife, that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Another sort of simultaneously a habitat and a place to live,

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00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>and they're a corridor that things can move along. So

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00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.720
<v Speaker 1>does that give wildlife a space at the edge of

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00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.879
<v Speaker 1>all these big arrable fields as well to move around

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00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.759
<v Speaker 1>and get between those The woodland habitats will get to

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00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>the water and get to the other things that they need, because.

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00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.480
<v Speaker 3>They don't just just need a hedge, do they. No, No, no,

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00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:01.279
<v Speaker 3>absolutely that.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the other things that we do in

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<v Speaker 1>our business is that we coppice woods.

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<v Speaker 3>Richard's a copper too over.

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00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.160
<v Speaker 2>In Wales, but my business partner he's got a coppering

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00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.759
<v Speaker 2>business too, and so when we're improving small woodlands and

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00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:16.000
<v Speaker 2>making them better, it works on the same principle is

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00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:20.079
<v Speaker 2>that you rotationally coppice hazel, you get thicker basal density

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00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:21.839
<v Speaker 2>of the wood and then you're going to have more

317
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:26.160
<v Speaker 2>likely you're going to get woodlark, nightingale, cuckoo nesting in there.

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00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>They want that dense space in there. But if we

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00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.759
<v Speaker 2>make a fantastic wood, or we renovate an old pond,

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00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:33.839
<v Speaker 2>or we go and dig a.

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00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.400
<v Speaker 1>New one, that's we know. Obviously woods are great for nature.

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00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Pond's central water is the stuff of life, but it

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00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.960
<v Speaker 2>just becomes an oasis, an island. So the hedge has

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00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.480
<v Speaker 2>this ability to be what I call the artery and

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00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:54.880
<v Speaker 2>a landscape. It's a motorway along which wildlife can move

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00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.519
<v Speaker 2>from one having a drink of water to that habitat

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00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:01.960
<v Speaker 2>that they want living in a woodland setting, which is,

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00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.079
<v Speaker 2>which is essential. But the other thing we've forgot, the

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00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.119
<v Speaker 2>most important part of this. I say, in words from

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00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.920
<v Speaker 2>the hedge available of the work ah, that a hedge

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<v Speaker 2>is only any good if it's good for a farmer.

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<v Speaker 2>Because a farmer, you know, he doesn't set out in

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00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.519
<v Speaker 2>the morning and think, huh, what can I kill today?

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00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:26.720
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't think that he doesn't go, I tell you what,

335
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.240
<v Speaker 2>I really fancy burning some diesel. So I'm just going

336
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>to go and hitch my flyer up to a tractor

337
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.160
<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to go and smash that up. They

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00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.960
<v Speaker 2>don't think that, you know, to ignore what you might

339
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.079
<v Speaker 2>read in certain newspapers or books and stuff about how

340
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.160
<v Speaker 2>terrible farmers are. It doesn't make any cost effective sense.

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00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:46.319
<v Speaker 2>But I'm also trying to make the hedge not just

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00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:47.920
<v Speaker 2>work for a wild I've it's got to work for

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00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:50.400
<v Speaker 2>the farm. And if you actually look at the other

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00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.839
<v Speaker 2>benefit of when we go and have these linear ribbons

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<v Speaker 2>running across a field.

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<v Speaker 1>When they grubbed all the hedges out, or.

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00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.759
<v Speaker 2>So many hedges out in nineteen forty six up to

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00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a sort of nineteen eighty odd, they thought, well, were

349
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.359
<v Speaker 2>maximizing yield area. But they the reason they stopped grubbing

350
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:10.359
<v Speaker 2>hedges out because they realized there was huge soil erosion problems,

351
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 2>that the soil was getting desiccated because the retention and

352
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:20.079
<v Speaker 2>the capillary action that a hedgerows roots has. Now we

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00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:24.039
<v Speaker 2>also know when you're thinking so importantly about the water

354
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>quality and farmers are getting punished if they are polluting rivers. Well,

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00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.960
<v Speaker 2>those roots network that the hedge has and they put

356
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.319
<v Speaker 2>on more route if you lay or coppice them, because

357
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:37.599
<v Speaker 2>that's the reaction that they have.

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00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.400
<v Speaker 3>They're not just putting more growth on on top of the.

359
00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Below, it's filtering out the night trates that we are

360
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.359
<v Speaker 2>putting on the soil so that the water systems are uncleaner.

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00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>And then Anglian water they go and pay the farmer

362
00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.000
<v Speaker 2>money because the night trate level has dropped in the water,

363
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.279
<v Speaker 2>which means, of course we've all got cheaper water bills. Well, okay,

364
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.039
<v Speaker 2>thats you now, Well that hasn't happened here either, But

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00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the principles are the same. But the farmer is getting

366
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.880
<v Speaker 2>paid a small premium for having cleaner water, and that's

367
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's got a grass margin and it's got an

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00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:19.880
<v Speaker 2>improved hedgerow. So yeah, how wonderful is this thing the hedge?

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00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.200
<v Speaker 1>So in the book you we sort of break it

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<v Speaker 1>down chapter by chapter with conversations you seem to, particularly

371
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.920
<v Speaker 1>the early chapters, you focus on one person or one

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00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.880
<v Speaker 1>client or one farm that does stop in a particular way.

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<v Speaker 1>So those farmers that are paying you to manage their

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<v Speaker 1>hedges and write the management plan and lay the hedges,

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00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:44.640
<v Speaker 1>are they paying for.

376
00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.960
<v Speaker 3>It out of their their pockets? How is this being

377
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.839
<v Speaker 3>paid for? How? All right? How was this being paid for?

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00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, up until July the fourth last year, it was

379
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<v Speaker 2>being quite healthily paid for by all of you, sup

380
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.279
<v Speaker 2>in this room, the tax payer via government grant. Because

381
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:09.440
<v Speaker 2>when you're well, when the not all, I'll be honest,

382
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.759
<v Speaker 2>there's huge amounts of the work that I do. Farmers

383
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:13.680
<v Speaker 2>they will add whistles and bells to it from their

384
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.960
<v Speaker 2>own pocket. If they've had a good year, they'll go,

385
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:17.759
<v Speaker 2>we might as well do that. But if you can't

386
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.200
<v Speaker 2>get me grund, let's go and do that. It makes

387
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 2>sense to go and add that to it. We'll put

388
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.440
<v Speaker 2>that little tweak in here, Yes, we'll put that extra

389
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:27.400
<v Speaker 2>a little lightne a cover crop in there next to

390
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.200
<v Speaker 2>that gass margin, something like that.

391
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 3>They'll quite happily do.

392
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.039
<v Speaker 2>But most of it was funded either under country sized

393
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.640
<v Speaker 2>stewardship or this new all fan fancy or singing all

394
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.440
<v Speaker 2>dancing thing called ELMS, the Environmental Land Management Scheme, and

395
00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:44.720
<v Speaker 2>the idea of ELMS was public money for public good.

396
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.799
<v Speaker 2>And that public good part of it was the fact

397
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.799
<v Speaker 2>of all that the factors that we just talked about

398
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:55.359
<v Speaker 2>why hedgerows are important through to you know, us planting

399
00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:57.960
<v Speaker 2>new woods, huge suedes.

400
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Of environmental good was done. Now.

401
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>One of the other reasons why we do our podcast,

402
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:04.880
<v Speaker 2>and one of the reasons why I wrote this book

403
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:10.400
<v Speaker 2>is that this is largely an overwhelmingly positive book. I

404
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.119
<v Speaker 2>will tell you the bad, but I'd also say when

405
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.160
<v Speaker 2>we do this, when we add this bus, this bus,

406
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.480
<v Speaker 2>this plus this, we get nature recovery in these areas.

407
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's why I focused on these individuals, because they're

408
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.079
<v Speaker 2>did individual farmers or just individuals.

409
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I've got a chapter on now about Silent.

410
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Jim, who's a deer stalker, because actually controlling deer is

411
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:31.920
<v Speaker 2>usually important if you want to have increased biodiversity.

412
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.640
<v Speaker 3>But that's by the way, the.

413
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:39.079
<v Speaker 2>That those individuals they reflect that it is quite possible

414
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:44.960
<v Speaker 2>to make significant positive changes. So your tax dollar was

415
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.480
<v Speaker 2>actually being incredibly well spent. But one of the things

416
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.960
<v Speaker 2>that we have found we have a very positive podcast,

417
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>we've got a very positive book. There are a number

418
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:59.720
<v Speaker 2>of wildlife organizations who find it easier to paint the

419
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.400
<v Speaker 2>bad and forget to tell you the good. And that's

420
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:07.920
<v Speaker 2>an understandable business regime because if you tell everything, say, oh,

421
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:12.119
<v Speaker 2>the curlew's dead, there's no curls. They're all dead. But

422
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:14.480
<v Speaker 2>they could do we could get some back if you

423
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>gave us some money. You'll go, oh, parl curlews, I'm

424
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:19.400
<v Speaker 2>going to go and donate you some cash. If I

425
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.559
<v Speaker 2>went and told you that the largest single population of

426
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 2>curlew nesting in the southern England is in the Avon

427
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Valley farm cluster or run by the Game Wildlife Conservation Trust,

428
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.559
<v Speaker 2>and I can tell you how they've managed to go

429
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.799
<v Speaker 2>from twenty five breeding pairs now to one hundred and fifty.

430
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:44.559
<v Speaker 2>And they have done that through habitat improvement. They've done

431
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.880
<v Speaker 2>that with some clever draining and some clever rewetting, and

432
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:51.640
<v Speaker 2>they've done that through really heavy targeted predator control on

433
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.319
<v Speaker 2>fox's carrying crows magpiles right if I said all those things,

434
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.640
<v Speaker 2>and so we can get to that point. So things

435
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 2>are going well, we.

436
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:01.920
<v Speaker 3>Don't need my money then, do you.

437
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:05.119
<v Speaker 2>So therefore you can understand as to why the doom

438
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 2>and gloom story that you so often hear about the

439
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.079
<v Speaker 2>countryside nature's declined. Oh yes, that X number of species

440
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.640
<v Speaker 2>of all dead. Right, we haven't got enough hedges. We

441
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:16.799
<v Speaker 2>haven't got enough hedges, and we need we need to

442
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 2>pal to another forty seven thousand miles more hedges.

443
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:20.720
<v Speaker 3>Otherwise everything is going to be dead.

444
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:25.880
<v Speaker 2>That's not true. It's buncom it's utter nonsense. Look after

445
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.000
<v Speaker 2>what we have now and manage it well, and then

446
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>you can achieve nature recovery. I'm not saying everything's all

447
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>rosy in the garden, but what this book is supposed

448
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:40.319
<v Speaker 2>to tell you is about positive stories. And the positive

449
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.599
<v Speaker 2>stories are about the individuals who I work.

450
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.720
<v Speaker 3>For one thing, it would.

451
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Be very easy if you just read this book in isolation,

452
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 2>you think what every farmer's what is sant?

453
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Every gamekeeper is a lovely chap?

454
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.000
<v Speaker 3>What course, that's not true.

455
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 2>I am actually honest enough in there to say, well, also,

456
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:01.599
<v Speaker 2>the wats all of the downsides and how we've ended

457
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.920
<v Speaker 2>up here. But I'm fed up to the back teeth

458
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.759
<v Speaker 2>with the narrative that every farmer's a git, that every

459
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:12.000
<v Speaker 2>gamekeeper is a murderer, and anyone who starts a chainsaw

460
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:16.079
<v Speaker 2>is somehow akin to pole pot. So I'm trying to

461
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.880
<v Speaker 2>redet to address that balance. And so some of the

462
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.799
<v Speaker 2>funding to help get this book done was from the

463
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Suffolk Agricultural Association and the Felix Stornley Cobbold Trust to

464
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:33.200
<v Speaker 2>farming charities. And this book is probably in the hands

465
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:37.160
<v Speaker 2>of more farmers than anybody else because what they saw

466
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.440
<v Speaker 2>it as was a template for well, look your mate

467
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.440
<v Speaker 2>down the road did it, so you can too. And

468
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>so a lot of these characters are not only great

469
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:51.319
<v Speaker 2>examples of farming conservationists, there are actually great examples that

470
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:51.960
<v Speaker 2>other farmers.

471
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Go.

472
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh, ed Nesling is a top lad, he's no muggy,

473
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.119
<v Speaker 2>knows how to farm. So therefore, if he's managed to

474
00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>go and focus his attention on returning the gray partridge

475
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.119
<v Speaker 2>to Winston and Debenham and around there, perhaps I could

476
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:04.240
<v Speaker 2>do that next door to them.

477
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.359
<v Speaker 1>So it's supposed to be a positive news story. So

478
00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:12.920
<v Speaker 1>it seems like hedge laying has become a new beekeeping.

479
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:14.160
<v Speaker 3>It's sort of.

480
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.559
<v Speaker 1>The the activity that you get into because it's a

481
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:19.000
<v Speaker 1>conservation related activity.

482
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:20.759
<v Speaker 3>But if you have a back garden you can do

483
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:21.559
<v Speaker 3>it there as well.

484
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 1>And it does seem like your book has come along

485
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.799
<v Speaker 1>just exactly the right year for that. Do you do

486
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:30.279
<v Speaker 1>you get requests.

487
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:31.200
<v Speaker 3>To do people's gardens?

488
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:35.319
<v Speaker 1>Do you get requests to do do Missus Miggins's bottom

489
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:36.079
<v Speaker 1>of the edge patch?

490
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.559
<v Speaker 3>That kind of thing, Yeah, was called Miggans. I apologize.

491
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.359
<v Speaker 2>They're what we call sibby jobs, you know, because in

492
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.319
<v Speaker 2>other words, we're sort of as a disuppose of reference

493
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:48.240
<v Speaker 2>back to my army background where.

494
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:48.759
<v Speaker 3>I started live.

495
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.759
<v Speaker 2>And yes, we do do some, and to be perfectly honest,

496
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:02.680
<v Speaker 2>I rather prefer working on far because you can work

497
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.839
<v Speaker 2>then at scale landscape scale.

498
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.039
<v Speaker 3>You can go and we do a hedgero management plan

499
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:08.440
<v Speaker 3>for a.

500
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Farm or a cluster of farms, and we can link

501
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.759
<v Speaker 2>all those farms together so they become one land mass.

502
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.039
<v Speaker 2>They're a very handy way at the end of the

503
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>season of laying a hedge in someone's garden. You do

504
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.839
<v Speaker 2>twenty meters or something like that, and you lay it

505
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:25.559
<v Speaker 2>and you stake it perfectly, and you bind the top

506
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.240
<v Speaker 2>with three beautiful binders and it looks just like the

507
00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 2>ones on Clarkson's farm, which is always whenever I say

508
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:32.039
<v Speaker 2>I on a hedge layer.

509
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>They go well, like on Clarkson's farm, and you go, yeah,

510
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:34.319
<v Speaker 1>that's right.

511
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, most of reality isn't like on clients as farm

512
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.680
<v Speaker 2>because you don't need to have this beautiful craft. What

513
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.079
<v Speaker 2>you need to do is lay the hedge accurately, crook

514
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:46.039
<v Speaker 2>it in place, and that will do well.

515
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Because you haven't got time.

516
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:48.160
<v Speaker 1>We're on a clock.

517
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.640
<v Speaker 2>We get paid by the meter, so therefore we need

518
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:52.440
<v Speaker 2>to run, get over the top of it, do it

519
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>properly and then get home again.

520
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:55.799
<v Speaker 3>So yes, we do do si.

521
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.400
<v Speaker 1>But one of my other things I'm extremely keen on

522
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:00.720
<v Speaker 1>I know that you're doing.

523
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.000
<v Speaker 2>This now in Wales, is that it is an activity

524
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:10.119
<v Speaker 2>that people can do and we have too few hedge layers.

525
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I said earlier that the government of the previous government

526
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:16.680
<v Speaker 2>told us that we had to have planned forty seven

527
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>thousand miles of new hedging. To give you an idea,

528
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:29.599
<v Speaker 2>one that's seventy two thousand kilometers one k one meter

529
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.359
<v Speaker 2>of hedge you put six plants in under a definite grant.

530
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:37.519
<v Speaker 2>Now my mats wasn't that hot when I was at school,

531
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:38.559
<v Speaker 2>which is why I'm a hedge.

532
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:42.279
<v Speaker 3>Lab But while you're in the army exactly.

533
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.839
<v Speaker 1>But I wasn't a household cavalry there, boy saying, at

534
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:46.720
<v Speaker 1>least I had my look smart while I was thick.

535
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.079
<v Speaker 1>So that's the main thing. Porfies our four legs. That's

536
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:49.680
<v Speaker 1>all you need to know.

537
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.720
<v Speaker 3>But that's very true. Yeah.

538
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, the most important thing is that how are you

539
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:01.039
<v Speaker 2>going to go and grow all these aren't you? We

540
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:05.079
<v Speaker 2>aren't growing en off hedge whips in this country. To

541
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:06.160
<v Speaker 2>facilitate that.

542
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.720
<v Speaker 3>We are then going to have to go and wrap

543
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.000
<v Speaker 3>them all in plastic.

544
00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Because we've got far too many deer and in this

545
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:14.960
<v Speaker 2>neck of the woods, the predominant species that are really

546
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.519
<v Speaker 2>causing mayhem fallow and muntjack. Neither a witch are a

547
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.319
<v Speaker 2>native species.

548
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 1>We are non native species eating out the underneath the hedges,

549
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 1>so we have to guard them, but that is single

550
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:25.759
<v Speaker 1>use plastic on the whole.

551
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.200
<v Speaker 3>We do have bi degradable.

552
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Guards, but I've not really found any that are cost effective.

553
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Work with you.

554
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 2>No, Now, the cays, the canes, they're interesting, so we

555
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:41.799
<v Speaker 2>don't hardly have a coppice industry here anymore.

556
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.079
<v Speaker 3>So how are you going to keep this.

557
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Little old hedgewit up in its single use plastic guard?

558
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:49.799
<v Speaker 2>Or we could use hazel if we had a rotational

559
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:52.759
<v Speaker 2>coppice business industry in this country the world, but we don't,

560
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:58.480
<v Speaker 2>so we import all that bamboo from China. Now why

561
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:01.240
<v Speaker 2>are we planting forty seventh miles a new hedge? So

562
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the government, oh, it's going to be great for the environment. Yes,

563
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 2>forty seven thousand miles a single use plastic and chain

564
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 2>and canes imported from China and the plants imported from

565
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Holland because we don't grow enough here. So you see

566
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:18.000
<v Speaker 2>where I'm slightly coming from here is that you'll see

567
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:20.759
<v Speaker 2>in four years time there'll be a manifesto and doubtless

568
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:22.799
<v Speaker 2>there will be lots of stuff about how we're.

569
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:23.880
<v Speaker 3>Going to improve the environment.

570
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.599
<v Speaker 2>The election before last it was the tree plant In

571
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>election the Conservatives said we're gainst planned one billion trees.

572
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Labour went shit. They put one billion dowg one point

573
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>four billion under Jeremy Corbyn. The Liberal Democrats went stuff

574
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:43.720
<v Speaker 2>that three billion trees. We're going in three billion trees

575
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.519
<v Speaker 2>and enough hedges that we could go to the moon

576
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:47.200
<v Speaker 2>and back with them.

577
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:48.240
<v Speaker 3>Well we don't grow enough.

578
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:49.079
<v Speaker 1>But more to the.

579
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Point, there ain't many people like him and me, which

580
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>you probably think you thank God for that, but actually

581
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.319
<v Speaker 2>doing the practical hard graft, actually doing the hard yards

582
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.640
<v Speaker 2>of planting those hedges or planting those trees. And as

583
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.480
<v Speaker 2>we've already said, you can't just leave a hedge to

584
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:08.799
<v Speaker 2>be a hedge of planted that bye, You've got to

585
00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:10.880
<v Speaker 2>go and manage the damn thing all it stops being

586
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 2>a hedge.

587
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.799
<v Speaker 1>And a wood is only your decent wood if it's managed.

588
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.559
<v Speaker 1>So we need more people.

589
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.039
<v Speaker 2>And that's another reason why I wrote Words from a

590
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Hedge Available and back and we do Coach Slide podcast

591
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.279
<v Speaker 2>is because we try and encourage other people to go

592
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and do idiots like us and go and work with

593
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>our hands out in the hedges in the woods.

594
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's the it's not it's all tree planting, but

595
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.799
<v Speaker 1>there's this halfter care aspect as well that I mean,

596
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>we're in probably the driest year for the last fifty

597
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>years now, I reckon about the ind of September, that's

598
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.160
<v Speaker 1>how it will have turned out. Certainly where we are

599
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 1>in Wales, we've got cracks in the fields that you

600
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:51.359
<v Speaker 1>could lose a bird down where there's I don't think

601
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:54.400
<v Speaker 1>i've seen green grass in the backfield for since May.

602
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:59.759
<v Speaker 1>It's it's pretty bad. Trees we planted last winter are

603
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>not going to survive because they're just they're in shallow roos.

604
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.759
<v Speaker 1>They're only about that far down. You go down with

605
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.680
<v Speaker 1>a spade, you need it opened, put the tree whip

606
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.359
<v Speaker 1>in and then close it up again. If that top

607
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 1>eighteen inches is dry, it's got no chance. It hasn't

608
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:16.480
<v Speaker 1>got a chance to the roots to get down. When

609
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I drove over here, went on the A fourteen and

610
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:21.319
<v Speaker 1>is it near Cambridge? I go to that bit where

611
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 1>it looks like someone is farming tree guards but no

612
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:25.559
<v Speaker 1>tree those trees.

613
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.319
<v Speaker 3>So what's the score with that? Oh, that's a duel

614
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:29.880
<v Speaker 3>in Eastangliar's crime them.

615
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:31.799
<v Speaker 2>So there was a lot of the work that we're

616
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.839
<v Speaker 2>getting told to do now is mitigation.

617
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.160
<v Speaker 3>So they build.

618
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.480
<v Speaker 2>We've got a new build housing thing and a next

619
00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>door but one village to us, which, without any hint

620
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of remorse or realizing just how repellent this is, there

621
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:54.480
<v Speaker 2>is a building project called red Wings. Well, yes, red

622
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Wings used to be out in that field it's now

623
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:01.160
<v Speaker 2>bloody identicate houses. There are four bedrooms executive homes because

624
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.559
<v Speaker 2>we need some more four bedroom executive homes because we

625
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.480
<v Speaker 2>haven't got enough of them.

626
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 1>These places always named there for what, Yeah.

627
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Like wings curlews or partridge meadow, all these places. But

628
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:15.319
<v Speaker 2>the daft thing is is that we'll then have this

629
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:18.319
<v Speaker 2>thing called bio diversity net game, or as we call it,

630
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.200
<v Speaker 2>kicking the can down the road. So if you lose

631
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.240
<v Speaker 2>a piece of habitat that's been there for I don't

632
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:28.960
<v Speaker 2>know how many centuries. And they managed to get some

633
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:32.559
<v Speaker 2>planning permission on him. One of the interesting things is

634
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 2>that farmers again getting real bad red or they grubbed

635
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>all the hedges out where yes they used to because

636
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:38.880
<v Speaker 2>the government told them to.

637
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 3>They didn't do it.

638
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Remember, they're then to start.

639
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 2>A tractorp and dynamite trees because I'll be a fun laugh.

640
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:46.440
<v Speaker 3>You know how much money am I going to make

641
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.920
<v Speaker 3>out a dynamiting a tree? Nothing?

642
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I'll do it anyway, It's not what they do.

643
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.480
<v Speaker 3>They're farmers of business people. You don't do stuff for

644
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.720
<v Speaker 3>no reason. Anyway.

645
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:56.079
<v Speaker 1>They can't grub hedges out on farms.

646
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:57.400
<v Speaker 3>You have to go.

647
00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Through quite a hefty round.

648
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Of applications to explain as the white is essential to

649
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:06.039
<v Speaker 2>your agricultural business, as to I remove a hedge. Now,

650
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:09.199
<v Speaker 2>if you're building new houses in the meadows or the

651
00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 2>larks or wherever red listed species they're destroying this time,

652
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:17.119
<v Speaker 2>if you're a builder, you don't have to because you

653
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:18.159
<v Speaker 2>have oh it's called.

654
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Bar diversity net gain.

655
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:21.480
<v Speaker 2>So yes, that hedge might have been there for one

656
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty years, but they're going to pay us

657
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.679
<v Speaker 2>to go and plant a brand new hedge any old

658
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 2>place really earlier.

659
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.239
<v Speaker 3>Just matched that up, that'll be right.

660
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 1>But but rather than losing three hundred and.

661
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Fifty meters of old hedge, will give you ten percent more.

662
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:42.400
<v Speaker 2>So therefore you've got three hundred and eighty odd meters

663
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>of new hedge.

664
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 1>But once it's planted, the building company is not responsible

665
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:47.599
<v Speaker 1>for its care.

666
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.440
<v Speaker 2>It can just stay there in those guards whither and

667
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.320
<v Speaker 2>die and no one goes back and says or all

668
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.039
<v Speaker 2>what's happening. And that's what happened along the A four

669
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.159
<v Speaker 2>t Now, to be fair, the previous government did go oders.

670
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:03.559
<v Speaker 2>It's very embarrassed because there were a lot of dead trees.

671
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Because remarkably the environmental company who got the contract to

672
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 2>plant those didn't know that if you just planted a

673
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:16.159
<v Speaker 2>tree whip into crap top soil that came down from there,

674
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and you just sort of covered it with a little

675
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:20.639
<v Speaker 2>bit old shingly grass and then you put these trees

676
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:25.119
<v Speaker 2>on this bank, so therefore it's desiccated into subsoil.

677
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:25.920
<v Speaker 3>All the dreamed bank.

678
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that they all died, you know, who would have

679
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.920
<v Speaker 2>thunk it, But but.

680
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.320
<v Speaker 1>It was that for the year first year. I think

681
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:33.039
<v Speaker 1>that's really great.

682
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:37.440
<v Speaker 2>They've mitigated against all this habitat loss by planting these

683
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.519
<v Speaker 2>trees along there. And like you say, now, what they've

684
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:42.639
<v Speaker 2>done is plant is a lovely array of single use plastic.

685
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:47.159
<v Speaker 2>So I'm afraid one of the things that where we

686
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 2>struggle is that most of the time we are working

687
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:58.239
<v Speaker 2>with a job where we're looking I do hetero management plans, right,

688
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.400
<v Speaker 2>and they work on a ten year side. I really

689
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.079
<v Speaker 2>should do them in twenty year cycles, because I'm looking

690
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:05.480
<v Speaker 2>if I lay aheadge in year one out on need

691
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:10.039
<v Speaker 2>probably laying again in year twenty one right by working

692
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.079
<v Speaker 2>ten year cycles on the whole, just for management's sake. Now,

693
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 2>the problem is in that twenty year cycle. That is

694
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:28.920
<v Speaker 2>five different governments, five different manifestos, five different empty promises

695
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:35.800
<v Speaker 2>made by however, many parties, and nature conservation and farming

696
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:41.159
<v Speaker 2>does not work in these tiny, little five year segments

697
00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:45.639
<v Speaker 2>of policy. We work at best on ten years most

698
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.159
<v Speaker 2>of the time. If it's trees or hell, how many

699
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:51.559
<v Speaker 2>years century century?

700
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, depends what you're growing. But yeah, there's not

701
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.800
<v Speaker 1>It's like any experiment in forestry. If you want to

702
00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:58.559
<v Speaker 1>find out, all, let's see what grows well on that

703
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.559
<v Speaker 1>bank over there, have to plant them, manage them, and

704
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.719
<v Speaker 1>maybe your children will find out whether the experiment works.

705
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:08.639
<v Speaker 1>It sits outside of the human cycle. Just there's a

706
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:10.039
<v Speaker 1>point I'm going to come on to in the moment,

707
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 1>which is about the book. But are there any consultant

708
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.880
<v Speaker 1>tocologists in the room.

709
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:20.400
<v Speaker 3>Good right now? About something mean? But I work with them.

710
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 1>I work with them a lot, and I've got a

711
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 1>couple of very good friends that are consultant to cologists.

712
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:29.679
<v Speaker 1>There is this whole parallel industry related to habitats and

713
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:34.400
<v Speaker 1>habitat loss of bi diversity, net gain and projects like that.

714
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.280
<v Speaker 1>That is, you get these mitigation projects, but you also

715
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:45.000
<v Speaker 1>get these prebuilding things where that make the construction projects

716
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 1>very expensive, so you've probably heard about the bats and

717
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.760
<v Speaker 1>the newts for HS two and things like that.

718
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:50.320
<v Speaker 3>That's often a.

719
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Smoke screen because those things are expensive to do and

720
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.639
<v Speaker 1>it's over a large, very diverse landscape. But you might

721
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.719
<v Speaker 1>have seen this thing where people net hedges. Put a

722
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.559
<v Speaker 1>net over a hedge because in five years time you

723
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:06.840
<v Speaker 1>might want to do houses there, but it's cheaper to

724
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.400
<v Speaker 1>net the hedge in winter, so birds card nest in

725
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:13.159
<v Speaker 1>there and remove that as a nesting habitat until you're

726
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>ready to build a house there. We've ended up with

727
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:23.559
<v Speaker 1>for big construction projects. It's weird parallel conservation labeled economy

728
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:28.000
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't actually help wildlife. What it does is helps

729
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:34.000
<v Speaker 1>house builders helped companies stay within the law, which isn't

730
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:36.119
<v Speaker 1>a bad thing on its own, it's just it's not

731
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the same as conservation. So you see this when those

732
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 1>same ecologists, who are very trained and very dedicated people

733
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 1>go out to do surveys on land to assess it,

734
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.119
<v Speaker 1>to say is this a good habitat? Is this a

735
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 1>habitat that is doing well for this particular species. The

736
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.840
<v Speaker 1>problem is that they're doing that under construction site rules,

737
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.719
<v Speaker 1>which means they have to wear all all the BPE,

738
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.440
<v Speaker 1>all the things that work on a construction site, even

739
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.199
<v Speaker 1>though the thing that is going to be constructed there

740
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:11.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't exist yet. So my friend once had to do

741
00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Speaker 1>water bowl surveys next to a riverbank for a cable

742
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.639
<v Speaker 1>route that was coming across. But because of his next

743
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to water, she had to wear a dry suit and

744
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.079
<v Speaker 1>flotation stuff. Fair enough, but because he was going to

745
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>be an electrical site one day, the risk assessment said

746
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:29.119
<v Speaker 1>she had to wear flash gear. So fireproof clothing on

747
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:30.000
<v Speaker 1>top of the drysuit.

748
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:36.239
<v Speaker 4>Can I just say something on the netting of patures, Yes,

749
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:41.320
<v Speaker 4>so in me which is well, so this is edgeles.

750
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:43.000
<v Speaker 3>For the new man.

751
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.719
<v Speaker 4>There's probably about one hundred meters legs. The pedge has

752
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 4>recently just become strict down to the ground.

753
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:51.719
<v Speaker 1>I was done last winter, and I'm.

754
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:57.039
<v Speaker 4>Sure it's because because of BNNG and being able to

755
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:02.639
<v Speaker 4>reduce the quality of habitat. When success it is there

756
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:06.159
<v Speaker 4>was no longer any hedge. Oh, it'll make a DMG

757
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.199
<v Speaker 4>a lot easier. Have removed a lot of the ecological

758
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 4>impediments found intivation.

759
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.719
<v Speaker 3>It's easy to gain if you're starts in Fronzerra.

760
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that is one of the

761
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.920
<v Speaker 1>that's a very interesting observation. I don't heard that is

762
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.039
<v Speaker 1>that one of them.

763
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I write a lot about the good guys in here,

764
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:27.880
<v Speaker 2>and they almost are the losers in a lot of

765
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:35.199
<v Speaker 2>environmental policy, because they have got a lot of grape utches,

766
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:37.519
<v Speaker 2>lots of linuts, there's a lot of yellow hammers, there's

767
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot of red pole, There's all these various species.

768
00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Although actually, yeah, we've got less in that wind. They

769
00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:44.800
<v Speaker 2>we got them, yeah, yeah, combuntings, of course we want them. Yeah,

770
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.760
<v Speaker 2>they were down in that field there. When actually the

771
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:51.880
<v Speaker 2>farmers who have perhaps farmed right up to the hedge

772
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:57.599
<v Speaker 2>bottom and have not been so environmenting sound when it

773
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.119
<v Speaker 2>then comes to say, well, let's get what improved and

774
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.079
<v Speaker 2>can you make If you start from zero, it's pretty

775
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.719
<v Speaker 2>damn easy to get to a bit better if you're

776
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.760
<v Speaker 2>actually already at twenty five. It's much harder for those

777
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.280
<v Speaker 2>people to get up to fifty, whereas to get from

778
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.440
<v Speaker 2>zero to twenty five is a lot simpler. And like

779
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>you say, is that sometimes there are some people and

780
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.159
<v Speaker 2>this is why some of the relationships that I see

781
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.320
<v Speaker 2>with some of the construction companies is that they're putting

782
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.360
<v Speaker 2>habitat in Why are you putting that there that will

783
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 2>make any ecological or conservation sense in any shape or form. Well,

784
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:36.119
<v Speaker 2>it's because you're actually just making a pig's ear look

785
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:42.760
<v Speaker 2>slightly more like perse And that's really why. And unfortunately

786
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.920
<v Speaker 2>these heroes and the heroes many of them are in here,

787
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:51.039
<v Speaker 2>are actually they've done it happen with their conscience. They

788
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.079
<v Speaker 2>know that they're actually going to be at the losing it.

789
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:59.480
<v Speaker 1>And so this was reviewed in the Times literally.

790
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Supplement very favorably, I might add, which was a bit

791
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:05.079
<v Speaker 2>of a shock to me. I didn't know I was

792
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:07.440
<v Speaker 2>in the Times literally someone because I'll be honest, I'm

793
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:09.920
<v Speaker 2>a hedge layer. I happen to write is a side.

794
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.119
<v Speaker 2>But one of the things that she said she's an

795
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:17.360
<v Speaker 2>unashamed pelemicist. So I've already told you I'm unashamedly parochio,

796
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.599
<v Speaker 2>but also I'm unashamedly a telemicist. Not completely. I don't

797
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:26.280
<v Speaker 2>sit or it's either my way of the highway, but

798
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:29.199
<v Speaker 2>I think there are some pretty clear and obvious black

799
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:34.159
<v Speaker 2>and hite issues, and I'm afraid that I don't think

800
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 2>any yellowhammer. I have large yellowhammer tattoo on my arm

801
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:40.840
<v Speaker 2>because I like yellow hammers, yellowhammers and gray partries in

802
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.880
<v Speaker 2>my thing when I do book number two or get

803
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:47.840
<v Speaker 2>a gray partridge on mack side. I am of the

804
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:53.000
<v Speaker 2>firm belief that no yellowhammer, if asked the question, would

805
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:57.239
<v Speaker 2>ever say, do you know what we need? More politicians?

806
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:03.519
<v Speaker 2>I do know if asked they would say, I quite

807
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:05.719
<v Speaker 2>like a couple more fellows who do that nice thing

808
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.159
<v Speaker 2>with the hedges where I like to lay. And I

809
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:12.960
<v Speaker 2>think that is where we are missing with nature recovery,

810
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.960
<v Speaker 2>is that we are doing form filling exercises. We're asking

811
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:22.519
<v Speaker 2>ecologist to go and work for the poachers, not the gamekeepers.

812
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.480
<v Speaker 1>And I think that is a great worry. And I'll

813
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.639
<v Speaker 1>tell you a funny old thing. I was out at Buxhel.

814
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I was coppersing some steaks and binders in there, and

815
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.320
<v Speaker 2>I write about it here. And there they were doing

816
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 2>an ecological survey for nesting habitat for this great big

817
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:46.679
<v Speaker 2>pipeline that they're bringing water from Lincolnshire down through Norfolk

818
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and Suffolk and down to sort of South Suffolk. It's

819
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:51.559
<v Speaker 2>a great big pipeline and they're doing the nesting habitat

820
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.920
<v Speaker 2>survey and Goldie is my business partner, the ian I

821
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:57.639
<v Speaker 2>this is a triple S I would So we were

822
00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:59.679
<v Speaker 2>allowed to take our trucks in there because we're the

823
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:04.320
<v Speaker 2>dama the rides. And we had to sit there and

824
00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:07.440
<v Speaker 2>we waited and we waited, and we waited because we

825
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.800
<v Speaker 2>thought we'd better have a cup of tea. And we

826
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.360
<v Speaker 2>were waiting for the chapoo owns that would come down

827
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:14.480
<v Speaker 2>and say which coop we could work with. And there's

828
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:16.239
<v Speaker 2>no phone works there anyway, We're waiting on our thing,

829
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:18.480
<v Speaker 2>and we say, what the buddy hell's that? And there

830
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:23.440
<v Speaker 2>are these two visions in Orange walking towards us, and

831
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:26.880
<v Speaker 2>they had great big builders hats on.

832
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 5>Triple Excel orange sort of day glow, high vis vest

833
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 5>boots were still toe caps on Triple Xcel over trauses

834
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:42.159
<v Speaker 5>in Orange.

835
00:44:43.159 --> 00:44:47.559
<v Speaker 2>One of them had a laptop and the other one

836
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:48.719
<v Speaker 2>had a pair of binoculars.

837
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.320
<v Speaker 1>But you always can smell I can spot us.

838
00:44:51.199 --> 00:44:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Sued because look at someone they carry their binoculars, somebody

839
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:55.920
<v Speaker 2>who actually knows what they're looking at.

840
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.239
<v Speaker 1>They sit there, this one there.

841
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:01.079
<v Speaker 2>By the time, by the time many things flown off,

842
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:05.199
<v Speaker 2>they've got hold on that's gone. Anyway, So these two

843
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:10.280
<v Speaker 2>people were trembling along and Goldie's got is he has

844
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>Labradors because he's silly.

845
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:13.360
<v Speaker 1>I have Cocker Spaniels, far better dogs.

846
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, Goldie's old labs out there and lovely old

847
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.480
<v Speaker 2>dog called Oz. And you know he's one of them dogs.

848
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.559
<v Speaker 2>If you ever had a break in, right, he wouldn't.

849
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Just good, Hello, my name is Oz. If you'd like

850
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 2>to know where he keeps his keys, they're just under here,

851
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:26.599
<v Speaker 2>he would.

852
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:29.760
<v Speaker 1>He's anyway, these old things have come towards it and

853
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:36.960
<v Speaker 1>oswa pladdy hell And I went home and Goldie just

854
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.679
<v Speaker 1>went Mark's like his dog because he's a pro past

855
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.199
<v Speaker 1>turn chat anyway. I mean he said, what you're doing?

856
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.440
<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure every single ecologist always has this question,

857
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:50.760
<v Speaker 1>asked him. And now we're doing bird nesting habitat survey. Okay,

858
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:51.679
<v Speaker 1>have you seen much?

859
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:54.320
<v Speaker 2>And the and the girl started to saying, oh yes,

860
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.559
<v Speaker 2>and the no, terrible, terrible. Now this is one of

861
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:04.599
<v Speaker 2>the dual woodlands in Suffolk, these woods, and we thought, okay,

862
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.519
<v Speaker 2>why what's the matter and he said, well, he said,

863
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:09.159
<v Speaker 2>poor habitat.

864
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it's a trifle aside? Would that's been managed in

865
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 1>the same way since it was probably first planted back

866
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:18.840
<v Speaker 1>in about fifteen hundred and something. We know that's when

867
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:21.639
<v Speaker 1>this was first set up as it would. But more

868
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:26.400
<v Speaker 1>to the point, as he was talking, woodcock jugged over

869
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:30.199
<v Speaker 1>the rye right and out there on out of the stubbles,

870
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:34.480
<v Speaker 1>just like the overwinter stubbles outside Cake Cake there's a

871
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:37.719
<v Speaker 1>covey of gray partridges. And he said, well, haven't you

872
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:42.000
<v Speaker 1>said nah, it's not good habitat at all. And so

873
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.679
<v Speaker 1>I got to think him, whereas they flopped off with

874
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.519
<v Speaker 1>their massive boots and silly hats and all that stuff,

875
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 1>would it not be better though? If their reports said no,

876
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:59.159
<v Speaker 1>it's terrible. Because if you go and report it that

877
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:04.159
<v Speaker 1>it's bad, you report that there is no nature, you report.

878
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:07.000
<v Speaker 2>That everything's dead. It's not just we're talking about at

879
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.000
<v Speaker 2>the start. That is a good way of raising money

880
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:12.000
<v Speaker 2>for some charities. But it's a lot simpler thing for

881
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:16.079
<v Speaker 2>government to go and say, well, yes, I've obviously putting.

882
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.320
<v Speaker 1>This water pipe through here, We're going to put these

883
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.559
<v Speaker 1>pylons the whole way through Suffolk and destroy all that

884
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:23.880
<v Speaker 1>farmland and habitat.

885
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we can put those turbines up there. Oh yes,

886
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:29.599
<v Speaker 2>this would be superb because we're not killing anything because

887
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.360
<v Speaker 2>everything's dead. And those people work for Angler Water. They

888
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:38.440
<v Speaker 2>were contractors, subcontractors of subcontractors. But that is the problem

889
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:41.199
<v Speaker 2>that we're facing. So when I'm laying my hedges, and

890
00:47:41.239 --> 00:47:43.199
<v Speaker 2>the reason why I put this was a hedge layer's

891
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 2>view of the countryside, I reckon I can lay on

892
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:50.559
<v Speaker 2>average if we're staking a binding a hedge, we do

893
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:55.360
<v Speaker 2>about forty two three meters a day if we're conservation

894
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:57.519
<v Speaker 2>laying it, So therefore we're laying almost like a Devon

895
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.480
<v Speaker 2>style a bit lower. Crooking it in place, we could

896
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.639
<v Speaker 2>do up to about eighty but I reckon we work

897
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:06.039
<v Speaker 2>probably do about seven eight meters and then stop for

898
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.400
<v Speaker 2>a cup of tea out the flask. So it gives

899
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity to lean and sit and watch, and I'd

900
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.079
<v Speaker 2>probably do more leaning and sitting and watching. The most

901
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.360
<v Speaker 2>people in the countryside, and most of the stuff with

902
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:21.599
<v Speaker 2>my view of it is the fact that the farmers

903
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:25.280
<v Speaker 2>ain't the enemies. The builders are just doing what they're told,

904
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:29.000
<v Speaker 2>The ecologists are just doing what they're told.

905
00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.159
<v Speaker 1>But there's a bunch of people who are sat in

906
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:37.599
<v Speaker 1>Westminster who are quite happy to use our wildlife, our wildlife,

907
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.559
<v Speaker 1>our natural our green and pleasant land.

908
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:42.360
<v Speaker 2>The reason why all these guys are out there dancing,

909
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:44.519
<v Speaker 2>why there's a history of folk music, all our heritage

910
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 2>and history based in the land, in the tewa of

911
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:51.079
<v Speaker 2>our land. They are more than happy to use all

912
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:54.119
<v Speaker 2>that as collateral for going and ticking a few boxes.

913
00:48:54.559 --> 00:49:00.159
<v Speaker 1>And my view of the countryside is that we needed

914
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:05.119
<v Speaker 1>to start having politicians who have a semblance of understanding

915
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of what idiots like him and me, who work with

916
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:09.320
<v Speaker 1>our hands.

917
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.719
<v Speaker 2>For living in woods and in hedgerows what it actually means.

918
00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Come and join us for a bit and might learn

919
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:15.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot more because even.

920
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:20.480
<v Speaker 1>As a as a a normal person unlike us wandering

921
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:24.280
<v Speaker 1>through the countryside, it's quite difficult to see exactly what's

922
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.480
<v Speaker 1>out there. Because if you just if you're going out

923
00:49:26.519 --> 00:49:28.079
<v Speaker 1>to a walk along the foot path or something like that,

924
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.199
<v Speaker 1>you can see the plants, they don't run away. You

925
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.519
<v Speaker 1>can see all the hawthorn berries and the rose hits

926
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:34.719
<v Speaker 1>and everything overhanging in the head rows and are the

927
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:38.280
<v Speaker 1>slowes earlier this year right so nams, So you can

928
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:40.559
<v Speaker 1>see all that because that doesn't get scared and run

929
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:44.199
<v Speaker 1>away and hide when you ride. But all those the

930
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.119
<v Speaker 1>small vertebrates, all the scround nesting birds, all of the

931
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:51.880
<v Speaker 1>small birds, they scurry away when you walk through, particularly

932
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.599
<v Speaker 1>you got dogs with you, and if your dog's ten

933
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.559
<v Speaker 1>meters fifty meters in front of you coursing through the headrow,

934
00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:01.679
<v Speaker 1>they hear when the dog arrives. So you won't see

935
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:05.719
<v Speaker 1>anything when you get there. But if like when often

936
00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:08.119
<v Speaker 1>when we're skibing or wait or waiting for a lando

937
00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:11.639
<v Speaker 1>or a land agent, what is that the technical taunch.

938
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, you sit.

939
00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:16.559
<v Speaker 1>There watching the landscape. And if you sit there quietly,

940
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.760
<v Speaker 1>even in chainsaw traiergers and things like that, you will

941
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:23.960
<v Speaker 1>start to see stuff emerge and come back and just

942
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.239
<v Speaker 1>sitting still and watching fifteen minutes at a minimum, watching

943
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:29.239
<v Speaker 1>the landscape.

944
00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:34.239
<v Speaker 3>Not reading a book. But this one's all right, the camouflower.

945
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Should you work us that Linnitz can't see you with soon,

946
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.920
<v Speaker 1>but you will see more things. So you have to

947
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 1>stop and sit in a place to find out what's

948
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.880
<v Speaker 1>actually there. You can't walk through and assess it that way.

949
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:50.360
<v Speaker 1>And that's something that's missed in policy, but it's also

950
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:53.440
<v Speaker 1>missed in just our own interpretation of what's.

951
00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:54.920
<v Speaker 3>In a place. You have to get to know somewhere

952
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:56.000
<v Speaker 3>to find out what's there.

953
00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:01.079
<v Speaker 1>And weirdly enough, technology helps of this because now we

954
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:06.719
<v Speaker 1>have relatively inexpensive thermal imaging cameras, so you can go

955
00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:09.599
<v Speaker 1>by even by the bird watching places, and they get

956
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.920
<v Speaker 1>used for all sorts of purposes. But for basically the

957
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.199
<v Speaker 1>price of a good neurals digital camera, you can get

958
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 1>a thermal imaging scope. That means you can sit and

959
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.800
<v Speaker 1>look at a hedge and see all the stuff that's

960
00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:23.559
<v Speaker 1>hiding from me. And if you go out about eleven

961
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:28.320
<v Speaker 1>o'clock at night into your natured depleted stubble fields and

962
00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:31.480
<v Speaker 1>just go and see how many badgers are on roaming around,

963
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:34.639
<v Speaker 1>how many things are wandering around at night? Look them

964
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:36.599
<v Speaker 1>into the headbro see how many things are nesting up

965
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:40.480
<v Speaker 1>in there. There's a whole host of wildlife that you

966
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 1>never really see. But when you have to go and

967
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:46.000
<v Speaker 1>look for it, and actually it is almost it's a

968
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:49.559
<v Speaker 1>business decision to find it, you do notice a lot

969
00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:53.760
<v Speaker 1>more there. So you can't rely on the narrative of

970
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:55.480
<v Speaker 1>someone saying, oh, no, there's nothing there.

971
00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.400
<v Speaker 3>You have to you have to find out, well, how

972
00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:59.639
<v Speaker 3>would you look, where did you look? How long did

973
00:51:59.639 --> 00:51:59.880
<v Speaker 3>you look?

974
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:05.039
<v Speaker 1>Are you financially incentivized and not buying things in those places.

975
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.599
<v Speaker 1>Because this is the difference between what we see online

976
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:13.599
<v Speaker 1>and what we experience at work. There are two very

977
00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:15.800
<v Speaker 1>different countrysides out.

978
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:20.599
<v Speaker 2>There, and I think that on the whole, I would

979
00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:22.840
<v Speaker 2>say that my view with it natural England.

980
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:23.920
<v Speaker 3>Just release some data.

981
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the other day the one hundred and fifty different

982
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:32.000
<v Speaker 2>species are increasing. Bizarrely, our current Secretary of State for

983
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Dehra took the credit for it. So they go.

984
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:37.239
<v Speaker 1>It shows you what brilliant stuff labor's doing. And I

985
00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:39.639
<v Speaker 1>thought that's amazing. They came into power on July the fourth.

986
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:40.159
<v Speaker 1>What do they do?

987
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Ah and hay pressed are all the great partridges? Why

988
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:45.440
<v Speaker 2>we're going to go and breed more now? When that's bollocks?

989
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Its actually they do to us too, and people like

990
00:52:48.039 --> 00:52:50.679
<v Speaker 2>us do just us? Just us, yeah, no one else,

991
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:54.000
<v Speaker 2>just us now listen. But the other thing I wanted

992
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:56.599
<v Speaker 2>to get across, because I'm conscious of the time is

993
00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:59.320
<v Speaker 2>ramping on, is that one of.

994
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:00.320
<v Speaker 3>The things that both.

995
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:02.840
<v Speaker 2>That are very key and Richard runs now is just

996
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:06.360
<v Speaker 2>south something where he is trying to train young people

997
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:11.320
<v Speaker 2>in Wales of how to manage hedo's better as parts

998
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:15.079
<v Speaker 2>and parts of the understanding nature the countryside, food farming,

999
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:20.639
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. And I am involved with something called the

1000
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Suffolk School's Farm Project, which has an event every single

1001
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:29.719
<v Speaker 2>year at Trinity Park. And because everyone has to do

1002
00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:32.079
<v Speaker 2>that in these book things, I'm going to read you

1003
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:35.039
<v Speaker 2>just a little bit of my book because obviously Abby

1004
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.639
<v Speaker 2>will shut the curtains in a minute, because you can't

1005
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:41.400
<v Speaker 2>escape until you've passed through the gift shop. This is

1006
00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:44.760
<v Speaker 2>like a wave audio book. Yeah, basically, now, this is

1007
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.480
<v Speaker 2>what you do at these knittere busus.

1008
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:48.679
<v Speaker 3>What you do. It's what you do. You've been doing

1009
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:50.000
<v Speaker 3>instead of working.

1010
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:54.880
<v Speaker 1>That's easier than staring at things. Right anyway, this this

1011
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:56.039
<v Speaker 1>is this is the chapter.

1012
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:58.519
<v Speaker 2>It is about how you know, because it's all the

1013
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:01.800
<v Speaker 2>good winging about them old bloody boys they don't understand

1014
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.599
<v Speaker 2>our country ways. Well okay, well let's go and do

1015
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>something about it. So we got this thing. I'll read

1016
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:12.480
<v Speaker 2>this to you. I wait under the spread fingers of

1017
00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 2>sweet chestnut. Its leaves cast their rippling pattern on the

1018
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.880
<v Speaker 2>sandy grown The branches overhead are sent bowing and waving

1019
00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:24.079
<v Speaker 2>by intermittent puffs of chill late April breeze. I shuffle

1020
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:28.079
<v Speaker 2>my feet with impatience, kicking up grit and spiny chestnut husks.

1021
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Laid hedges, each only twenty meters in lengths around me

1022
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:33.360
<v Speaker 2>on three sides.

1023
00:54:33.039 --> 00:54:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Like a letter you.

1024
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.480
<v Speaker 2>The short length of hawthorn and hazel on my right

1025
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:41.159
<v Speaker 2>was laid this time last year. The binders, now dried

1026
00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:44.559
<v Speaker 2>and cracked, remain twisted in place. New buds have erupted

1027
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:47.719
<v Speaker 2>along the laid pleacher from the heels spring upwards shoots

1028
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:50.960
<v Speaker 2>of precocious coppice growth. I think to myself, that's not

1029
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.960
<v Speaker 2>a bad job on such a poor old hedge. At

1030
00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:56.920
<v Speaker 2>the nine o'clock I see the first group of children

1031
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:59.760
<v Speaker 2>make their way towards me. They remind me of a

1032
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:03.519
<v Speaker 2>little of foxhound puppies, all babbling and pushing and shoving

1033
00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:07.320
<v Speaker 2>one another rough, but with no evil intent. Their teacher

1034
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:11.199
<v Speaker 2>claps her hands and the racket ends abruptly. She turns

1035
00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:13.719
<v Speaker 2>and treats me to a smile of genuine pleasure. We

1036
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:17.199
<v Speaker 2>recognize one another, meeting on this day each year for

1037
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:20.679
<v Speaker 2>the past four The Suffolk Schools Farm and Country Fair

1038
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:24.239
<v Speaker 2>at Trinity Park is an institution well loved by teachers,

1039
00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:28.559
<v Speaker 2>children and exhibitors alike. Over one hundred Suffolk primary schools

1040
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:31.960
<v Speaker 2>send their pupils to this event, organized and run by

1041
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the Suffolk Agricultural Association. Here they hear about food, farming

1042
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:40.800
<v Speaker 2>and the countryside from the mouths of farmers, deer stalkers, beekeepers,

1043
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:44.679
<v Speaker 2>naturalists and a solitary hedge lad. This is the first

1044
00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:46.719
<v Speaker 2>stand of the day for the jolly teacher and her

1045
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:48.920
<v Speaker 2>class of eight and nine year olds. By two o'clock,

1046
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I know her smile will be well worn. Herding cats

1047
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:57.199
<v Speaker 2>is tiring, even for experienced hands like hers. Good morning everyone,

1048
00:55:58.039 --> 00:55:59.760
<v Speaker 2>I do speak like that when I go to this event.

1049
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:02.880
<v Speaker 2>By I heard him, mam, good morning everyone, I say

1050
00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:05.079
<v Speaker 2>to the upturned semicircle of faces.

1051
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:08.760
<v Speaker 1>I could be on the BBC candy goodle. My name

1052
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:10.360
<v Speaker 1>is Richard and I'm a hedge layer.

1053
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Where are you from twelve voices, replying a jumbled, high

1054
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:19.199
<v Speaker 2>pitched charm. I only catch the last word school. I

1055
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:21.679
<v Speaker 2>turn to the teacher, who smiles again, and she says

1056
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.719
<v Speaker 2>wood breach. I wave at the hedge on my left.

1057
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:25.239
<v Speaker 1>What's this?

1058
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:25.599
<v Speaker 3>Then?

1059
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:29.639
<v Speaker 1>I asked the children. Generally, eleven hands immediately shoot skywards,

1060
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:34.039
<v Speaker 1>one stays lowered. The twelfth child is distracted. He's watching

1061
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:38.159
<v Speaker 1>a gun dog training demonstration in the distance. Labradors jumping

1062
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:41.639
<v Speaker 1>and gates are understand me, more entertaining than hedges in pleachers.

1063
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:43.119
<v Speaker 3>I point to a.

1064
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Little girl, her hair coiled in elaborate plaits for the answer.

1065
00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:51.119
<v Speaker 1>I see she wears a replica rips which town FC shirt?

1066
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:55.599
<v Speaker 1>This is promotion year for the tractor boys again, ah,

1067
00:56:55.639 --> 00:56:57.280
<v Speaker 1>and their fan base is widening.

1068
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Her blue wellies make you smile. The decaday to a

1069
00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:05.199
<v Speaker 2>green FOG's holding brollies. She has them wedged on the

1070
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:09.480
<v Speaker 2>wrong feet a bush, she replies, And not quite, I

1071
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 2>say trees, answers a little boy sporting an Ipswich Town tracksuit.

1072
00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:18.199
<v Speaker 1>No, not trees, knives, says another. He goes against the

1073
00:57:18.199 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 1>grain hereabouts and wears a black beady hat with an

1074
00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:21.440
<v Speaker 1>arsenal badge.

1075
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:26.760
<v Speaker 2>No, not quite. The gundog fan turns around a hedge,

1076
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:30.639
<v Speaker 2>he states, matter of facting, I know his sweatshirt sports

1077
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:35.440
<v Speaker 2>a John Deere tractor in blazon lom niveuf yea cy infuse.

1078
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Punching my right fist into my left palm. My exuberance

1079
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.840
<v Speaker 2>spooks the audience, and the front row steps back half

1080
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:46.760
<v Speaker 2>astride they bump into the rank behind surprises This odd

1081
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:49.960
<v Speaker 2>tall man in overalls is so excited about a mundane,

1082
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:53.719
<v Speaker 2>leafy line of things that look like small trees. I persevere,

1083
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:56.440
<v Speaker 2>telling them why we have hedges on farms and how

1084
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:59.199
<v Speaker 2>we manage them, and what benefits they bring for wildlife,

1085
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and why they ensure we have healthy food on our plates.

1086
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:05.960
<v Speaker 2>I ask them what mammals they think live in a hedge.

1087
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Their replies are eclectic.

1088
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:14.639
<v Speaker 2>Some are obvious mice, rats, rabbits, snakes, other leaves meat, permused.

1089
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:17.159
<v Speaker 1>Cats, says one little girl at the back.

1090
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I have a cat called Rugby, she adds confidentially, as

1091
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:25.360
<v Speaker 2>if imparting scandalous gossip. One is a spiky little animal,

1092
00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I add as a k foo, and John Deere finally

1093
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:32.719
<v Speaker 2>gives me the answer. I seek hedgehogs, he announces, yes.

1094
00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:35.079
<v Speaker 2>I warm to my subject.

1095
00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Even their name reveals their preferred home, doesn't it. And

1096
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:42.400
<v Speaker 1>why would a thick, dense hedge be better for hedgehogs?

1097
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:42.840
<v Speaker 3>I ask?

1098
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.840
<v Speaker 1>My audience pauses briefly, then, like Roman senators, all raise

1099
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:51.679
<v Speaker 1>their hands. They don't like the rain, says one boy

1100
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:54.400
<v Speaker 1>his zips which town baseball cap is too big for

1101
00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:58.960
<v Speaker 1>his head het blackberries. Another little girl answers her clothes,

1102
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:02.480
<v Speaker 1>revealing allegiance to neither football club nor track to manufacturer.

1103
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:07.519
<v Speaker 1>She prefers Taylor swift. What if a cage provides protection

1104
00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:11.039
<v Speaker 1>from being eaten? What might like to eat a hedgehog?

1105
00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:11.880
<v Speaker 3>I query?

1106
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.440
<v Speaker 2>This draws the gang up short. It is apparent they

1107
00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:17.920
<v Speaker 2>can't imagine anything wanting to crunch through all of those

1108
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:22.000
<v Speaker 2>sharp spines and anyway. In their gentle world of animal stories,

1109
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the hedgehogs are friends to all.

1110
00:59:24.480 --> 00:59:25.480
<v Speaker 3>They have yet to learn.

1111
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:28.079
<v Speaker 1>The true nature is far removed from the thing they

1112
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:31.280
<v Speaker 1>read about in books. Real nature is a series of

1113
00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:35.320
<v Speaker 1>terrifying episodes of eating or being eaten. I help the

1114
00:59:35.400 --> 00:59:37.800
<v Speaker 1>kids to find the right answer to the hedgehog's bow.

1115
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:41.400
<v Speaker 1>It's black and white, I add, and the hands gull up.

1116
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:45.719
<v Speaker 2>Zebra skunk says another.

1117
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:47.880
<v Speaker 1>No, No, not a skunk or a zebra.

1118
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:49.199
<v Speaker 3>They don't even live in Britain.

1119
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm begin to plea what else is black and white?

1120
00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:52.880
<v Speaker 3>And is a predator?

1121
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:56.599
<v Speaker 1>Willing the right answer out of the class. Finally, the

1122
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.880
<v Speaker 1>smallest boy in the front row raises his hand half heartedly,

1123
01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.519
<v Speaker 1>a motion that could be passed off as an adjustment

1124
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:03.119
<v Speaker 1>to his hair.

1125
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Is it a badger?

1126
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:06.239
<v Speaker 3>He quavers?

1127
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:10.679
<v Speaker 6>Yes, I say, Badgers eat hedgehogs, and the thick of

1128
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:13.280
<v Speaker 6>the hedge, the more chance a hedgehog has of escape.

1129
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:17.519
<v Speaker 6>I realize my question and answer session wasn't as fascinating

1130
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:21.079
<v Speaker 6>for the children as it was enlightening for me. I

1131
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:23.360
<v Speaker 6>grabbed my planting spade and hawthorn whip.

1132
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1133
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Who wants me to help me plant a hedge and

1134
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.920
<v Speaker 2>give the hedgehogs a new home? I asked, and twelve

1135
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.440
<v Speaker 2>hands shoot up. I give the spade. The little boy

1136
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:34.599
<v Speaker 2>who knows what a badger is. In each tile takes

1137
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:37.920
<v Speaker 2>their turn at digging, planting, heeling, and guarding, leaving a

1138
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:40.519
<v Speaker 2>slightly crooked line of fledgling new hedge in their wake.

1139
01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:44.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a job well done, is it, I say,

1140
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.480
<v Speaker 2>and they agree wholehearted with a cheer. They say goodbye

1141
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:51.199
<v Speaker 2>and wander off together, chattering and giggling. Their teacher turns

1142
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.679
<v Speaker 2>and smiles a thank you over her shoulder. Then, with

1143
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:57.239
<v Speaker 2>arms outstretched, she shepherd her charges in the direction of a.

1144
01:00:57.159 --> 01:01:01.079
<v Speaker 1>Pig handling demonstration. The next class live and for my

1145
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:04.679
<v Speaker 1>green cave. Good morning everyone. My name is Richard not,

1146
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:05.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm a hedge layer.

1147
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:07.000
<v Speaker 3>Where are you from?

1148
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:15.880
<v Speaker 1>And so we're not now And isn't it a tragedy

1149
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:19.719
<v Speaker 1>that those kids from Woodbridge, hardly stay in Metropolis, don't

1150
01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:21.840
<v Speaker 1>know what a badger is, but they're more likely to

1151
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:27.559
<v Speaker 1>know what a zebras are skunk that all these foreign species.

1152
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:31.280
<v Speaker 2>So therefore, that's why I wrote the book, because I

1153
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:33.639
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go and try and help educate, and that

1154
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:38.039
<v Speaker 2>is why each week Richard Callum and I do the

1155
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Countryside Podcast, because what we're trying to do is go

1156
01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:44.719
<v Speaker 2>and not force stuff down people's throats, but do a

1157
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:48.039
<v Speaker 2>little bit of education in a lighthearted way. Although we'll

1158
01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:50.519
<v Speaker 2>be honest, if primary school kids did listen to the

1159
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:52.039
<v Speaker 2>country Slide podcast.

1160
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:57.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now, oh you're the lucky ones.

1161
01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:01.280
<v Speaker 3>That's the the ones we don't in this country.

1162
01:02:01.400 --> 01:02:03.239
<v Speaker 1>That's I think, that's basically you're the only people who

1163
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:04.920
<v Speaker 1>don't listen at this podcast. They were very big in

1164
01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:08.599
<v Speaker 1>sales career. Yes, sorry, we haven't got the data for

1165
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:12.800
<v Speaker 1>nord career, but we we sort of started it in

1166
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:16.320
<v Speaker 1>the middle of your winter hedgelaying and coppicing season last

1167
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:19.440
<v Speaker 1>year on November and we thought, well we'd try it

1168
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:21.079
<v Speaker 1>for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.

1169
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:24.519
<v Speaker 1>And so we do this stuff and then Callum is

1170
01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:27.440
<v Speaker 1>a he's a photographer. He's an urban eye photographer of it. It

1171
01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:29.920
<v Speaker 1>loves wild food and looks covering and trying to get

1172
01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:31.679
<v Speaker 1>his kids more into the outdoors. So we sort of

1173
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:35.480
<v Speaker 1>covers that heart of it. We we didn't really have

1174
01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:38.280
<v Speaker 1>a plan when we started, still don't now, to be fair.

1175
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:39.360
<v Speaker 3>No, it's more of a.

1176
01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:45.559
<v Speaker 1>Sort of damage limitation now than a clan. But we

1177
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:50.199
<v Speaker 1>we found an audience we didn't expect. We found an

1178
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:55.119
<v Speaker 1>audience that somebody told we both we've boys got stories

1179
01:02:55.280 --> 01:02:57.840
<v Speaker 1>very similar. Somebody is saying that when they're on their

1180
01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:00.440
<v Speaker 1>own in the tractor, and if you drive a traped

1181
01:03:00.440 --> 01:03:02.639
<v Speaker 1>around a fielder particularly it's a big field, you're there

1182
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.360
<v Speaker 1>for hours just going up and down. I'm like doing

1183
01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:08.760
<v Speaker 1>whatever machinery it is. You're on your own. You are

1184
01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:11.440
<v Speaker 1>very isolated, on your own in a landscape. You can't

1185
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:15.760
<v Speaker 1>see another human being. And they really like our podcast

1186
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:18.920
<v Speaker 1>because it's stupid, it's silly. It's like being in the

1187
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.719
<v Speaker 1>pub listening to three people bicker about stuff and be

1188
01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:25.880
<v Speaker 1>very very silly, but occasionally say something sensible, but there's

1189
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.039
<v Speaker 1>more by accident.

1190
01:03:26.679 --> 01:03:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Than by design. But they couldn't get access to the podcast.

1191
01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:32.920
<v Speaker 3>One week.

1192
01:03:33.320 --> 01:03:34.960
<v Speaker 1>One person I was talking to and it said that

1193
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.880
<v Speaker 1>was that was crushing for them because they couldn't hear

1194
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:40.639
<v Speaker 1>our stupidity for what but that one thing you were doing,

1195
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:43.239
<v Speaker 1>It's like, oh, we can never stop. Now We've got

1196
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:44.239
<v Speaker 1>to keep going just for that one.

1197
01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:48.880
<v Speaker 2>It's peculiar because I think, you know, this education thing

1198
01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:51.639
<v Speaker 2>is also saying in the countryside it is quite an

1199
01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:54.960
<v Speaker 2>isolated job. And unfortunately I work with Richard gouldmight my

1200
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:57.000
<v Speaker 2>business partner, and we work together and we usually have

1201
01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:57.440
<v Speaker 2>a dog with this.

1202
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:00.880
<v Speaker 1>But you know, reural life these days is not like

1203
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:03.920
<v Speaker 1>it used to be. You know fifty sixty years good is.

1204
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:07.519
<v Speaker 2>That one man con virtually farm a thousand acres on

1205
01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:10.679
<v Speaker 2>his top and so therefore it is an isolated profession.

1206
01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:13.320
<v Speaker 2>So therefore the podcast was certainly something where we were

1207
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:15.480
<v Speaker 2>speaking to our own bubble. But also I know that

1208
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:17.800
<v Speaker 2>we're speaking slightly out with that bubble. When I went

1209
01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to go and Oliver the hedges of the Duke of

1210
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Norfolk's placer Aaron Well actually peppery, and he'd look around

1211
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:24.000
<v Speaker 2>and he went after you.

1212
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:27.000
<v Speaker 3>Go, I do like that country slide thing you do

1213
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:27.920
<v Speaker 3>may and.

1214
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.000
<v Speaker 1>So that's the senior peer of the realm. He listens.

1215
01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:36.920
<v Speaker 2>But also when we go to various places, we had

1216
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:39.559
<v Speaker 2>this joke but for ages, you know, when this book

1217
01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:42.119
<v Speaker 2>was coming out, I was just shamelessly plugging it all

1218
01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the time, and so Richard and Callum were just going to.

1219
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:46.159
<v Speaker 3>Say, what book coming out?

1220
01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know that, And that was just one of

1221
01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the standing jokes, you know, was that I'd never talk

1222
01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:51.360
<v Speaker 2>about my.

1223
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:53.159
<v Speaker 3>Book, although that's obviously that's what I did do.

1224
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:57.480
<v Speaker 2>I'd be walking through Morrison's in dis and I get

1225
01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:58.519
<v Speaker 2>some old boy come up.

1226
01:04:58.480 --> 01:04:59.760
<v Speaker 1>You've got a book coming out.

1227
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I like that, and.

1228
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:07.280
<v Speaker 1>I knew that that's what it was, was that we

1229
01:05:07.320 --> 01:05:09.400
<v Speaker 1>had suddenly struck a chord that you've got the Duke

1230
01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of Norfolk and had a good old boy from Norfolk who

1231
01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:13.559
<v Speaker 1>all find it quite fun.

1232
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.360
<v Speaker 3>So anyway, I suppose we better ought.

1233
01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:17.800
<v Speaker 2>To go and wrap all this up because he's good

1234
01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:19.360
<v Speaker 2>people who I've got to listen to some music too,

1235
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:22.519
<v Speaker 2>and a drink cider, which I think is the isn't

1236
01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:24.440
<v Speaker 2>how the main reason for coming to a folk festival.

1237
01:05:24.679 --> 01:05:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen any cider here, man.

1238
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:30.119
<v Speaker 3>No, he's a good side of somewhere, is there that way?

1239
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:34.800
<v Speaker 1>People saying that way that he's been on the side

1240
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:35.960
<v Speaker 1>and that's what our his eyes.

1241
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:37.199
<v Speaker 3>Are done, this wild flunking.

1242
01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:40.639
<v Speaker 1>At five pm, I thought, actually, do you know it's

1243
01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:41.719
<v Speaker 1>an important thing we did.

1244
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.719
<v Speaker 2>I bought duel flunking to a wider audience. But he

1245
01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:46.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't think twelve flunking was a thing.

1246
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.119
<v Speaker 1>He just thought I'd invented a word, and I said,

1247
01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:51.639
<v Speaker 1>and he, to his delight, he saw.

1248
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:52.800
<v Speaker 3>That we got dwarlf flunking here.

1249
01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:55.519
<v Speaker 1>It's a five and a half hour drive back to

1250
01:05:55.639 --> 01:06:00.480
<v Speaker 1>North Wales. I think he's going to hang around if

1251
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:04.679
<v Speaker 1>it's like an anthropological exhibition expedition now, because we're seeing

1252
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:06.800
<v Speaker 1>these people on the other side of the country that

1253
01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:08.639
<v Speaker 1>you ever see doing a strange thing. I know.

1254
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:12.320
<v Speaker 3>And he says, that comes from North Wales, my partners

1255
01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:14.320
<v Speaker 3>of Lincolnshire. So yeah, there you go.

1256
01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:18.679
<v Speaker 2>So so anyway, I don't think we has anyone gotten

1257
01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:21.400
<v Speaker 2>burning questions they really want to say, because otherwise we

1258
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:22.360
<v Speaker 2>have to go lead them.

1259
01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:25.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, madam, are you have been south NORTHLK.

1260
01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:25.519
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

1261
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:30.679
<v Speaker 7>And the farmer had a grant put in yes and

1262
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.519
<v Speaker 7>you can see it stretching away in feears where I

1263
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:39.239
<v Speaker 7>poll go keep outside. Yes, they've taken the hedges are growing,

1264
01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:44.639
<v Speaker 7>but they're full of plastic chees. Yes, who is going

1265
01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:50.159
<v Speaker 7>to remove them? Because I don't see anyone anywhere around

1266
01:06:50.199 --> 01:06:53.960
<v Speaker 7>my sword South Norfolk area removing these and we wear.

1267
01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:57.599
<v Speaker 2>About some typing off on you it's okay, yeah, well

1268
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:00.599
<v Speaker 2>they will do that. Part of the aren't is they

1269
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:03.840
<v Speaker 2>have to So therefore if they don't, they're in CONTRENTI

1270
01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:07.280
<v Speaker 2>with the BN eleven grant under Countryside Stewardship, so it

1271
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.199
<v Speaker 2>has to be removed. But they are going to be

1272
01:07:10.280 --> 01:07:14.000
<v Speaker 2>on for certainly on that slightly lighter clay that you

1273
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:16.599
<v Speaker 2>are there, they would certainly be on for four years.

1274
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:20.519
<v Speaker 1>Otherwise they're not going to have done their job. Yeah,

1275
01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:23.519
<v Speaker 1>because are you seeing.

1276
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:26.960
<v Speaker 7>I just think our whole country is admitted?

1277
01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Are they going quite brittle and cloudy? Yes? They're possibly

1278
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:35.480
<v Speaker 1>biodegradable ones which you can lead in place, but they

1279
01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:38.079
<v Speaker 1>don't work very well, so they will break down. But

1280
01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:40.760
<v Speaker 1>they might break down possibly not in my life, yeah,

1281
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:43.119
<v Speaker 1>thirty years. Yeah, but then that's a tick in a

1282
01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:46.199
<v Speaker 1>box as well. Might they might be able to leave

1283
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:47.920
<v Speaker 1>them on for that per Who do you report it

1284
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:51.920
<v Speaker 1>to some one of your clients? Is it?

1285
01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:52.599
<v Speaker 3>Bran?

1286
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I just think that claxing one of mine. Who would

1287
01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:01.239
<v Speaker 1>you report them to? I? And you report him to anybody?

1288
01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I think what you do is it might be an idea,

1289
01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:05.760
<v Speaker 2>is that if just to shock him a bit, if

1290
01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:08.519
<v Speaker 2>you go and see me all right, and you're BN eleven,

1291
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:10.559
<v Speaker 2>aren't they supposed to be off by now, and you'll

1292
01:08:10.599 --> 01:08:13.039
<v Speaker 2>think you've work for the Rural Payments Agency or shit

1293
01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:14.559
<v Speaker 2>himself and they'll be offering.

1294
01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:14.800
<v Speaker 3>Them back to you.

1295
01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:20.279
<v Speaker 1>Do you can turn up wearing mustard cords and exactly

1296
01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:22.960
<v Speaker 1>then I can loan you this jacket and you go

1297
01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:26.800
<v Speaker 1>along and say hello, hugo yeah, and they'll go, ah,

1298
01:08:26.840 --> 01:08:27.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, if.

1299
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:31.000
<v Speaker 2>You're quite right, and I'm being flippant, oh yeah, it's

1300
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:33.239
<v Speaker 2>not your local, are no. I mean it's the same

1301
01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:35.520
<v Speaker 2>thing with silas rap. It's the same thing with so

1302
01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:38.800
<v Speaker 2>many single use plasters, and it's but you see that

1303
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:41.199
<v Speaker 2>why do we have to have them? Why do we

1304
01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:44.079
<v Speaker 2>have to have them because we've got an over abundance

1305
01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:48.359
<v Speaker 2>of non native deer. We wouldn't need to have those

1306
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:50.399
<v Speaker 2>tubes if it wasn't for the fact that we have

1307
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:53.479
<v Speaker 2>a non existent deer management policy in this country, and

1308
01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:56.920
<v Speaker 2>we've got munk jack fallow. To a lesser degree, Chinese

1309
01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.439
<v Speaker 2>watered it and in other parts of the country. Seeker

1310
01:08:59.800 --> 01:09:02.800
<v Speaker 2>do jobs every single mouthful that a monk jack takes,

1311
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:06.279
<v Speaker 2>and hedgerows are their favorite, particularly Hawthorne. Everything on mouthful

1312
01:09:06.319 --> 01:09:08.960
<v Speaker 2>that the monk jack takes was never by their right.

1313
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:09.960
<v Speaker 3>There's the take.

1314
01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:14.279
<v Speaker 2>There are non native species, so we don't need them here.

1315
01:09:14.800 --> 01:09:17.720
<v Speaker 2>So until such time as we go and get our

1316
01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:19.960
<v Speaker 2>dear problem under control, we're still going to have to

1317
01:09:19.960 --> 01:09:22.439
<v Speaker 2>put single use plastic into the environment.

1318
01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:24.840
<v Speaker 3>And that's wrong. This was the question in the back

1319
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.920
<v Speaker 3>of the using different species.

1320
01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:36.399
<v Speaker 2>Yes compared to ten years ago. No, No, but I

1321
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:39.800
<v Speaker 2>tell you what interestingly, the and we had him on

1322
01:09:39.800 --> 01:09:42.840
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, actually guy called Harry Hoblin who runs by

1323
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Matrie Nurseries over near Thetford's here and Bridge. No, it's

1324
01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:49.600
<v Speaker 2>there's just justin justin Suffolk.

1325
01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:50.159
<v Speaker 3>Actually on this.

1326
01:09:54.119 --> 01:10:00.199
<v Speaker 1>The he is using seed provenance from south of the

1327
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:04.279
<v Speaker 1>door doing so. Therefore, although it will be and written

1328
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:05.720
<v Speaker 1>in the back of the book, I've got all the

1329
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:09.960
<v Speaker 1>species that I advocate for Suffolk hedges.

1330
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:12.720
<v Speaker 2>That they work well in the various soils across and

1331
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:16.800
<v Speaker 2>are listed of those down. But the seed which he's

1332
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:20.520
<v Speaker 2>growing from from south of the door doin same species,

1333
01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:25.680
<v Speaker 2>but they have evolved so that they are slightly slightly

1334
01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:30.119
<v Speaker 2>more drought tolerant. The other thing because of the change

1335
01:10:30.119 --> 01:10:35.359
<v Speaker 2>in climate is we are trying to plant plugs rather

1336
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:38.479
<v Speaker 2>than bear root because that extra bit of ready root

1337
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:44.079
<v Speaker 2>growth is a is an extra little bonus. But no,

1338
01:10:44.239 --> 01:10:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not wouldn't change the species Suffolk hedges a suffolk hedge,

1339
01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:51.319
<v Speaker 2>but it's where the seed is sourced.

1340
01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:55.439
<v Speaker 3>From originally that is changing the suffout In North Wales.

1341
01:10:55.479 --> 01:10:58.399
<v Speaker 1>We are changing slightly so we can grow sweet chestnut

1342
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:01.880
<v Speaker 1>now that we couldn't ten years ago, fifteen years ago,

1343
01:11:02.279 --> 01:11:05.359
<v Speaker 1>but sweet chest and we've now a viable species just

1344
01:11:05.359 --> 01:11:06.479
<v Speaker 1>because of that slightly.

1345
01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:10.319
<v Speaker 3>Longer growing season. But slightly you've changed climate. Yes, question

1346
01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:12.279
<v Speaker 3>here it's absolute.

1347
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:17.159
<v Speaker 8>The educating children young pupil at the present gun to

1348
01:11:17.239 --> 01:11:21.000
<v Speaker 8>understand it. What to expand vocational training for the other street.

1349
01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:25.760
<v Speaker 8>Is there any representation to government apprenticeships or other top

1350
01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:27.640
<v Speaker 8>training for your professionals.

1351
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:33.359
<v Speaker 2>It's impossible to have an apprenticeship. Really, we're being hedge

1352
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:36.000
<v Speaker 2>layer because mine is the season. Occupation starts in first

1353
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:40.000
<v Speaker 2>September and the season then finishes on the last.

1354
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:41.479
<v Speaker 3>Day of April.

1355
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:48.199
<v Speaker 2>So what tends to happen is that an apprentice, quite

1356
01:11:48.279 --> 01:11:49.720
<v Speaker 2>understand is going to say what the hell am I

1357
01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:50.039
<v Speaker 2>going to do?

1358
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Or something I want to be paid.

1359
01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:55.279
<v Speaker 2>I've been taken on by this, so that they're insufficiently

1360
01:11:55.399 --> 01:12:02.159
<v Speaker 2>flexible to work for these rather niche tasks like hours. Also,

1361
01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:05.199
<v Speaker 2>there is no in Suffolk, none of the one and

1362
01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:09.119
<v Speaker 2>only agricultural college that we have hasn't got set up

1363
01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:12.000
<v Speaker 2>an apprentice ship which they could then go back on

1364
01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:14.479
<v Speaker 2>their day release, So they would have to go back

1365
01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:17.680
<v Speaker 2>onto college and they would either do fencing or they

1366
01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:21.239
<v Speaker 2>would do tree felling, which neither of which are anything

1367
01:12:21.319 --> 01:12:22.279
<v Speaker 2>to do with with hedge lay.

1368
01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:27.319
<v Speaker 1>The only successful apprenticeship i've seen that was funded by

1369
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the Campaign for the Protection of Rural England and they

1370
01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:35.359
<v Speaker 1>funded a hedge laying apprenticeship with a chat who's got

1371
01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:40.399
<v Speaker 1>hedgelaying businesses sort of over towards safrom Walden down that way, and.

1372
01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:42.720
<v Speaker 2>He's got quite a few guys out working for him

1373
01:12:42.840 --> 01:12:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and that worked quite well. But it's obviously unsustainable that

1374
01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.640
<v Speaker 2>you would have to go and rely upon charities to

1375
01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:50.479
<v Speaker 2>go and provide that.

1376
01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:52.399
<v Speaker 3>So no short answer.

1377
01:12:52.520 --> 01:12:56.119
<v Speaker 2>In England, to my knowledge, there is no really meaningful surendy.

1378
01:12:56.159 --> 01:12:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Most of them argue the colleges do something within a

1379
01:12:59.079 --> 01:13:03.000
<v Speaker 1>state management three hours of education and of course, yeah,

1380
01:13:03.119 --> 01:13:05.000
<v Speaker 1>spartial college I think is the only one that does

1381
01:13:05.119 --> 01:13:07.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe as part of a gamekeeping of courses. Which is

1382
01:13:07.960 --> 01:13:10.399
<v Speaker 1>the last college that does gamekeeping with any serious degree?

1383
01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:13.000
<v Speaker 3>This lady here, Oh yeah, there's.

1384
01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:16.960
<v Speaker 9>Lots of great stuff about kind of farms and everything

1385
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:22.479
<v Speaker 9>doing and d. You're probably speaking to a converted audience already.

1386
01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:26.279
<v Speaker 9>But if there was anything that you could get the

1387
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:31.439
<v Speaker 9>public passes to lobbying the government to actually change I

1388
01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:35.600
<v Speaker 9>know it's impossible, but one thing that would actually make

1389
01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:42.439
<v Speaker 9>a huge difference to this whole issue. What kind of

1390
01:13:42.800 --> 01:13:44.720
<v Speaker 9>area would that be in?

1391
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Don't mean to go for us, you've got a better

1392
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:48.039
<v Speaker 1>you'll have a better answer.

1393
01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:57.880
<v Speaker 2>My would be is that farmers conservationists need consistency. So

1394
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:00.239
<v Speaker 2>therefore there's two reasons why.

1395
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:01.800
<v Speaker 3>We don't we have inconsistency.

1396
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.680
<v Speaker 2>One is because nature is sometimes used as a political

1397
01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:09.560
<v Speaker 2>porn a tool because you can go and draw on heartstrings.

1398
01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:12.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, one hand is going I'm not going to

1399
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:15.119
<v Speaker 1>let your house housing be held up because of.

1400
01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Newts and bats, I think was what our Prime minister said,

1401
01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>or Angela Reno one of those people anyway, so that

1402
01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:29.520
<v Speaker 2>was a failure, so therefore to stop using nature as

1403
01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:31.840
<v Speaker 2>a tool. But that's more of a sort of tone

1404
01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:33.680
<v Speaker 2>rather than policy. But I think one of the most

1405
01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:37.319
<v Speaker 2>important policies is that there should be a matrix of

1406
01:14:37.439 --> 01:14:41.439
<v Speaker 2>how we study what's worked there is. They're very good

1407
01:14:41.439 --> 01:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>at giving us money for me to go and plant

1408
01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:46.319
<v Speaker 2>a hedge, to copy the hedge layer hedge gap one

1409
01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:48.680
<v Speaker 2>up to side one up, to.

1410
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:50.279
<v Speaker 3>Go and incrementally cut one.

1411
01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:53.760
<v Speaker 2>But what there's no funding for is to pay for

1412
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:57.439
<v Speaker 2>the ecologists to go out and honestly go and say, okay,

1413
01:14:57.479 --> 01:15:00.479
<v Speaker 2>this hedge was laid three years ago, what is the

1414
01:15:00.520 --> 01:15:04.359
<v Speaker 2>abundance of species now compared when we first started. So

1415
01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:08.760
<v Speaker 2>we don't know what is actually efficacious in government policy.

1416
01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Now I can tell you what's efficacious actually with the

1417
01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:14.119
<v Speaker 2>headeros and boundaries grant, until Labor came into power, was

1418
01:15:14.319 --> 01:15:16.920
<v Speaker 2>most of the options in there. Because I wrote a

1419
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:21.079
<v Speaker 2>huge amount of the policy for the Hegeros and Boundaries grant.

1420
01:15:21.239 --> 01:15:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Because Janet Hues who was the senior civil servant in Elms.

1421
01:15:25.399 --> 01:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>She has fed up me being rude.

1422
01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:28.800
<v Speaker 1>To her on Twitter, so she'd all right, gobshite go

1423
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:32.199
<v Speaker 1>and okay, you can't write the stuff that rid of you.

1424
01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:35.079
<v Speaker 1>Boy she did, she said, I maneuvered you like a

1425
01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:37.159
<v Speaker 1>chess piece over here. So she said, so it's your

1426
01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:39.880
<v Speaker 1>fault of it all goes wrong. And I think one

1427
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:42.920
<v Speaker 1>of the things that we haven't because we haven't got a.

1428
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Value on a yellhammer or limit. There's not a financial

1429
01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:48.600
<v Speaker 2>value on it. So therefore we need to see. Therefore

1430
01:15:48.640 --> 01:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>the value is that is all our taxpayers' money on

1431
01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:55.119
<v Speaker 2>doing all this this environmental good. We need to see

1432
01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:57.640
<v Speaker 2>if it's actually worked, is it giving value for money?

1433
01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:01.840
<v Speaker 2>And I don't see anything in any government policy where

1434
01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:04.199
<v Speaker 2>they say, let's see if this has worked. They just

1435
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:05.600
<v Speaker 2>take it away and they give it back, and they

1436
01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:07.720
<v Speaker 2>take it away and give it back. So wildlife will

1437
01:16:07.720 --> 01:16:11.760
<v Speaker 2>never go and improve our careers. Hang by dangling threads

1438
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the time, and you know species will

1439
01:16:14.520 --> 01:16:17.039
<v Speaker 2>go and drop off the perch quite literally. And so

1440
01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:19.159
<v Speaker 2>therefore I think one of the most sensible things is

1441
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:22.359
<v Speaker 2>to go and say right before we start planting bloody

1442
01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:25.800
<v Speaker 2>forty seven thousand miles a new hedge or x billion

1443
01:16:25.840 --> 01:16:29.439
<v Speaker 2>trees or absent. Let's see if what we're doing already

1444
01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>and we've been paying millions of tax players pounds out

1445
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:35.600
<v Speaker 2>on is it working, and let's have some honesty. I

1446
01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:37.840
<v Speaker 2>don't want to hear from certain charities who are going

1447
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:39.079
<v Speaker 2>to say everything's good, now.

1448
01:16:38.920 --> 01:16:39.600
<v Speaker 3>Give you your money.

1449
01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to hear from a bunch of people

1450
01:16:42.000 --> 01:16:45.479
<v Speaker 2>who work for a water board who said, nothing to see.

1451
01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:47.239
<v Speaker 1>Now it's all dead. We can built that's fine. Don't

1452
01:16:47.239 --> 01:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>want hear from them. I going I want to hear.

1453
01:16:48.520 --> 01:16:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Some ecologists who are straight bats who are actually working

1454
01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.680
<v Speaker 2>on behalf of the farmer who has got to go

1455
01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:57.159
<v Speaker 2>and put his next granting and say is it worth

1456
01:16:57.239 --> 01:16:59.039
<v Speaker 2>my while applying for the next year, and then we

1457
01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:00.720
<v Speaker 2>can go and tell the second true state for death

1458
01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:05.199
<v Speaker 2>or if it works. I think farming data is something

1459
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that should be a policy and should be adopted or

1460
01:17:07.720 --> 01:17:08.560
<v Speaker 2>should be well funded.

1461
01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:12.520
<v Speaker 3>Abu tiver one more, one more? Which was this lady?

1462
01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Here was last while I broke Thank you.

1463
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:19.039
<v Speaker 10>We have lots of really good hedges where we live

1464
01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:24.119
<v Speaker 10>in Cataterum, Yeah, but very few hedge bow trees yeah,

1465
01:17:24.279 --> 01:17:26.319
<v Speaker 10>I've then obviously the worst than you're rich of all

1466
01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:30.840
<v Speaker 10>being played gone. Can farmers get it grant to put hedge.

1467
01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Row trees seven pound twenty five per tree planted every.

1468
01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:41.079
<v Speaker 2>One hundred meters. Personally, I hate trees and hedges. And

1469
01:17:41.119 --> 01:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>the reason being is because I said, I've got youther

1470
01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:46.520
<v Speaker 2>hamm on that on gray partches going on there for

1471
01:17:46.560 --> 01:17:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the expert, because those two hate them because that's where

1472
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:54.119
<v Speaker 2>predators perch. But I've just down Earsham, just down the

1473
01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>road from here, just finished their hedgerow management plan.

1474
01:17:56.680 --> 01:17:57.159
<v Speaker 1>Fascinating.

1475
01:17:57.279 --> 01:17:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't work out where there were so many fantastic

1476
01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:03.119
<v Speaker 2>old oaks in the trees, and interestingly, underneath the hedges

1477
01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:05.800
<v Speaker 2>were still doing it right despite the shade, and there weren't.

1478
01:18:06.399 --> 01:18:08.720
<v Speaker 1>There were brews of great partridges there left, right and center.

1479
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:11.119
<v Speaker 2>They've got a very very good gamekeeper there who's absolutely

1480
01:18:11.159 --> 01:18:13.840
<v Speaker 2>nailed on his lovely old boy looks like a klobbieds

1481
01:18:13.880 --> 01:18:15.279
<v Speaker 2>absolutely hell of a chat.

1482
01:18:15.800 --> 01:18:18.159
<v Speaker 1>But trees everywhere.

1483
01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:19.359
<v Speaker 3>And I said, oh, I can't work better.

1484
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:22.319
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen so many massive oaks, but I could

1485
01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:25.039
<v Speaker 2>tell they obviously weren't part of an old wood. But

1486
01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:28.239
<v Speaker 2>you know what it was turned out it used to

1487
01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:34.720
<v Speaker 2>be the largest stud in Britain for Hackney carriage horses.

1488
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:39.079
<v Speaker 2>So all them old London cabby horses were actually bred Earsham,

1489
01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:41.479
<v Speaker 2>but they farmed them like cattle. And of course a

1490
01:18:41.520 --> 01:18:44.279
<v Speaker 2>horse doesn't green lot too much sun or wind or

1491
01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>rain on its back. So those big old oaks they

1492
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:49.359
<v Speaker 2>left there intentionally for when it was a big old

1493
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:53.560
<v Speaker 2>hunting park in the sixteenth and fifteenth century. They'd left

1494
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:56.680
<v Speaker 2>those oaks there intentionally to be covered. So I have

1495
01:18:56.760 --> 01:19:00.000
<v Speaker 2>to say, I'm coming round to the idea that actually

1496
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.920
<v Speaker 2>trees and hedges aren't that terrible because Earsham they clearly.

1497
01:19:04.560 --> 01:19:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Had a huge amount of game and a rare game

1498
01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:14.439
<v Speaker 1>like gray partridge. They had lap wings out on.

1499
01:19:14.039 --> 01:19:18.520
<v Speaker 2>One field where they've got a nest brooded off, and

1500
01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:21.079
<v Speaker 2>of course lap wings and curly don't really like trees.

1501
01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Obviously Isham they didn't mind some coming around to it.

1502
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:27.960
<v Speaker 2>So yes, to answer your question, there is a grant

1503
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:31.600
<v Speaker 2>for it. And what I put in is crab app it.

1504
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:34.199
<v Speaker 2>And the reason I put crab apple inner hedge is

1505
01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:37.640
<v Speaker 2>because you've got more fruit and if the tractor driver

1506
01:19:37.800 --> 01:19:40.199
<v Speaker 2>with his flail does catch it, it's not the end

1507
01:19:40.239 --> 01:19:43.119
<v Speaker 2>of the tree actually makes it better. And if I'm

1508
01:19:43.119 --> 01:19:47.239
<v Speaker 2>going to plant trees and hedgerows, I plant.

1509
01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Them at the end as a little spinny.

1510
01:19:49.079 --> 01:19:52.600
<v Speaker 1>And so that's my own personal quirk. Doesn't mean it's right,

1511
01:19:53.039 --> 01:19:54.359
<v Speaker 1>but it's that's.

1512
01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:55.680
<v Speaker 3>What I liked. Yeah, we do it.

1513
01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:59.439
<v Speaker 1>We make a corner triangle, corner bit, a different habitat

1514
01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:01.800
<v Speaker 1>within a When the hedge Goldie, my business partner, he.

1515
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:04.359
<v Speaker 3>Said, trees belonging woods and that's it.

1516
01:20:04.640 --> 01:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>He's so it'd have been a lot quicker, but I

1517
01:20:06.800 --> 01:20:08.960
<v Speaker 2>know it would be nice to see him back.

1518
01:20:08.960 --> 01:20:22.680
<v Speaker 3>And there is a grant. Thank you so much, ed One.

1519
01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:21.399
<v Speaker 1>Shut the tact.

1520
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:26.640
<v Speaker 3>Thank you you, Splu Michid, thank you too much for

1521
01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:31.479
<v Speaker 3>providing the book. Sorry I'm being nice to you. And

1522
01:20:32.079 --> 01:20:34.119
<v Speaker 3>they're available over there. Thank you Abby.

1523
01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:35.560
<v Speaker 1>I'll even sign them if you want.

1524
01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:39.840
<v Speaker 3>I'll sign them if you want. You were covered in

1525
01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:40.840
<v Speaker 3>spiders right night, you know,