Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Valley coming
at you with another twenty twenty four twenty five NBA
season look ahead. We're on to the Minnesota Timberwolves, which
means I get to speak with Kyle Taigi from the
Flagrant Howse podcast over at Score North he co hosted
with Phil Mackie and also the Dane Moore NBA podcast
where he does a lot of appearances. There a lot
of work behind the scenes with day Moore. Love both
those podcasts a day more podcasts, especially if you're a
Timberwolves fan. It's just an absolute behemoth. So go find
the work to all the stuff that Kyle does that
will be in the links of our podcast and YouTube descriptions.
Go support him. You're in for a very fun conversation.
This is as I'm recording this now, the intro, the
longest look ahead that we've done. We went over ninety
minutes on the Timberwolves. So if you're a Timberwolves fan or
someone just curious about this team, I think you'll enjoy
it very quickly. As usual, though, just the reminder, if
you've not done so already, subscribe to us YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
The whole mine. Ratings and reviews on Apple help us
out a ton in the charts as well. Comment, help
like our videos on YouTube. That'll help the algorithm. Love
us back a little bit. And if you do all
those things consistently, One, thank you, I love you, and
two tell people about us, Share our episode, share our content,
come join our discord. The link to that's in the
podcast and YouTube description. Two. But that's enough for me.
Let's get to talking lots and lots of Minnesota Timberwolves
basketball with the One the Only Kyle Tige. Kyle, welcome
back to the Hardware Nots Podcast. Your third appearance, your
second time doing the look Ahead. So I'm always grateful
when guests agree to come back after doing their first
one or two appearances. Before we dive into just all
things Minnesota Timberwolves, have a very important question, how the
heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, I was telling you before we hit record.
Finally in a house. So the last time we spoke
on the micause I was still in an apartment but
got my first house. My back is if you're watching
on YouTube the opposite of what Dan's rocking, there's nothing
in here but a plant, but Uh, you're You're my
inspo on that. So I'm gonna start to build up
the studio a little bit because I woke up I
think it was yesterday.
Speaker 3: I woke up and I was like, we're.
Speaker 2: Like two weeks away from training camp and like media
day and stuff. So it's it's been a nice summer.
I know, you know, if you take vacations or whatever, it's
been nice to kind of get away football seasons on.
But basketball season's coming really quick and then I don't
know from a Timberwolves perspective, and I'm sure we'll get
into it. Probably the most exciting year we can think
of based on what they did last year.
Speaker 1: Right. I am grateful that for the NBA this summer,
like the transactions were just like there was the lotry
market in like fake thing that dwindled, lingered, excuse me
for a little bit, but it's made it really easy
to do these look aheads, and I'm plug at these
a little bit because there's just nothing happening in the NBA,
and I favor it. I know people are starved. I'm like,
I need this break. I need I need to figure
out what's going on with the entire league. As we
go into next season.
Speaker 3: Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years ago, well a handful
of years ago now, but where the like Andrew Wiggins
thing dragged on with into like August or something. So
it is nice from a basketball perspective. Can I just
have one month where there's nothing going on in the
NBA with you know, the new salary caps and the
CB and all stuff. It makes it a little harder
for August transactions. So August was nice, But yes, you
flipped the page September after a Labor Day. It's like,
oh my god, I need to refresh on my favorite
team or the league in general, because it just keeps
getting more chaotic as the season starts.
Speaker 1: So I have one more tangent. So are we gonna
have as the background? Gonna include like some Leonard Miller
propaganda the background?
Speaker 2: There's a lot of options on the table right now.
The NASE reed flag slash towel probably needs to be
incorporated as well. But uh yeah, I got to watch
Leonard out in Vegas during Summer League this past July,
and I still believe. So I don't know if that's
where we're gonna start today, but I will say that
Leonard Miller's stock is still very much a hold, and
if you have some extra discretionary income, maybe a buye.
Speaker 1: I bought last year and before the season started, so
I'm holding as well. But this is not the two
hour segment on Lendon Miller will come shortly. I want
to start here with just what were your kind of
your biggest takeaways from last season? Because there was so
much happening, not just the Wolves being good, but how
they were good, what happens in the playoffs, and then
of course all this stuff happening not so much in
the back drop, but like the battle over the soul
of the franchise from upstairs, and like even was Tim
Connolly going to be back? But okay, now he's going
to be back. But it's still sort of a year
by year thing. Just what are yours we're moving in
to this period of thinking about next season, what were
your biggest takeaways that are still kind of sticking with
you from last year?
Speaker 2: Oh, biggest takeaway by far is just the basketball, like
the on the court stuff and the fact that it
was finally good. It was the furthest the Timberwolves had
made a postseason run in twenty years they've been around
for as long as I've been around Dan, so thirty
five years kind of age myself, and they basically had
like one good season and it was that kg Latrell Spreewell,
Sam Casell year where they go they lose to the
Lakers in the Western Conference Finals. The Lakers obviously then
go on to lose to the Pistons, but that was
kind of the two thousand and three two thousand and
four season was like the benchmark of like, remember the
good old days.
Speaker 3: So for the Wolves to.
Speaker 2: Get back to that stage and to kind of show
that all this all these years of rebuilding and high
lottery picks and big trades and all this turnover finally
paid off. It was the best season again in two decades.
The off the court stuff with ownership or you know
what's gonna happen with the front office, or even when
you try to factor in all those things, and then
the new CBA and our favorite term now you know
second Apron. That stuff sucks, and we'll always kind of
stick around ownership stuff. Like the next big date is
November for arbitrations, so that battle is not gonna go
away anytime soon. But I think for a fan base
like Minnesota, they just were so happy to finally have
real Like, you know, we weren't looking at lottery picks
and ping pong balls in March. We were trying to
figure out seating. So I think from a fan perspective,
it was just really necessary to kind of get that
monkey off your back. Win a series, right, They sweep
the Suns, shock the Nuggets, and then I think kind
of flame out against the MAVs. Better team probably won,
but I don't think they gave them their best shots.
So just a really really good basketball season, and then
when they run it back and have pretty much the
same roster this next season minus a couple guys that
we'll talk about, it's hard not to be really excited about,
you know, Dan, They're talking about them as contenders, like
we're not used to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we haven't done our record projections or
over under stuff yet, but like they're pretty If they
fall outside of my top three, I'd be floored. And
I honestly think, despite what the YouTube comments might say,
a lot of the time or some of the Twitter people,
I enjoy when teams, especially in non glamour markets, like
flip narratives on their head and like I root for
I did this with the Cleveland and Donovan Mitchell thing,
like I want those teams to go like I want
a team like it's supposed to go all in for
Rudy Gobert, and I want them to be good because
I want more teams to do that. I want to
be able to get angry at other teams for not
doing that. And it was really cool to see Minnesota
just not the big model, just it's working. Rudy Gobert,
it's fourth defensive player of the year and maybe playing
some of It's like it's tough to separate because he
actually had good talent around him in Minnesota and like
Utah but like some of the best defense in terms
of mobility I've ever seen from him. Karl Anthony Towns
still kind of just like this wild, inconsistent adrenaline rush,
but him having like a couple big postseason performances, him
coming back from injury, him having like I thought he
was more aggressive on drives. I just enjoyed that whole thing.
Like even the people who thought like, oh, like, how
good is your ceiling if Anthony Edwards is the driver
of your offense? And there were imperfections, but I really
just enjoyed the Timberwolves, like for for the most part,
it came to a point where it was everyone was
wondering when or how they were going to break this
team up this past offseason, and then it became very
quickly before the playoffs, it was like, no, this team
is just too good. Like nothing's happening this offseason. It
would be franchise melpractice if it did.
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of funny, right, especially in the
league and you cover the league from the highest views,
you kind of monitor all the teams. NBA is really
about ring culture, right, like winning, Like, at the end
of the day, what are you trying to do. You're
trying to win a game, trying to win a playoff series,
You're trying to win a title. And it's funny how
teams like clevend to Minnesota, as you put are not
glamour markets, but almost kind of get ripped for trying
to win or trying to go all in. You know,
I don't like the trim all in because from a
Wolve's perspective, they still have future picks, they have things
they can do, they have young players. Cleveland's the same,
but it does kind of seem like Utah was just
given the trophy for trading two guys and getting all
these picks. Were in reality, it really did turn out
well so far right for Cleveland and Minnesota. And from
the Wolve's perspective, they don't do what they just did
without Rudy Gobert. He wasn't the best player on the team,
but I think a lot of us that watched could
have made an argument that maybe he was the most valuable.
Just again, after that Grizzlies series that was kind of
Ant's first taste of the playoffs a couple of years ago.
They left that thinking we probably should have beat the Grizzlies,
and we lost because we couldn't protect the rim, we
couldn't rebound. Well, what did Tim Conley do? As soon
as he got here, he just went and got probably
the guy that best addresses those two needs. He went
and got Rudy Gobert to protect the rim and get rebounds.
So the first year of the experiment didn't work. Two
years ago, Carl missed fifty two games. The two big
thing was kind of clunky. But to see them again
run it back kind of as you said, defy all
the commenters and haters online and just say we're gonna
try again. Rather than switching up the formula, We're just
gonna kind of try again and use the same exact,
you know, ingredients to make a better meal. And it worked.
And last year it really showed by you know, they
actually had an identity dan for the first time since
I was in middle school, where they came in every
night and said, we're gonna play really good defense and
we might slip from the best defense in the league
in January to like the seventh, but every night we're
gonna make you have to work offensively, And I think
that's kind of what led them as far as they
made it. And now, you know, now they have to
make some tweaks because I think they lack little offense,
and that will be something that we look forward to
this next season. That did the draft and some of
the other moves they made will that helped them up
their offense a little bit while still maintaining a really
talented defense.
Speaker 1: You just about this during point there, and I'm sure
I'm guilty of it a lot. Is we tend to
romanticize the tear down aspect when you're looking at what
Utah did on that side of the Rudy Go Baron
Dono Mitchell trades, and then we'll hammer the teams that
like went for it. And it's the same way with
player contracts, where it's do you remember back when this
feels like eight years ago when Tyler Hero was like
a darling, but then he signs his next deal and
people like, oh, that dude's overpaid. He's not valuable at all.
I need to know like the psychology behind that thought
that is a random tangent, but you're saying that made
me think of it. We both agreed though that they
were too good to like really for lack of like
just fuck with Like you shouldn't be like trading a
core piece over the offseason. But was there any part
of you just knowing about the second apron, knowing about
the uncertainty upstairs, that there wasn't some type of cost
cutting maneuver you know, from them this summer?
Speaker 2: Yes, Like it's still something I think about randomly when
like best buys over here mounting my TV or on
like on vacations this in Minnesota Timberwolves lower we kind
of referenced Charlie Brown and when Lucy pulls the football
right like every time, She's like, I'm not going to
pull the football this time, and then Charlie's like, Okay, fine,
I'm gonna kick this thing, and then she still pulls it.
So from a fan perspective, you're thinking, at some point,
what's the next shoe that's going to drop? But so far,
despite the ownership thing, which is completely unnecessary, and I
think people are starting to pick sides, and I know
what my side would be. I'm a fan of the
side that has come in and led to actual change
and brought in a guy like Tim Connolly and pays
all the coaches. But at the end of the day,
you don't really pay the luxury tax bill until the
end of the season. So this team is facing with
the second Apron and the new CBA they're facing. I mean,
I think Dan, they're gonna be one of the five
or six most expensive rosters.
Speaker 3: In the league.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill, that's not.
Speaker 3: In the past.
Speaker 2: Right now, We're going to say that Glenn Taylor is
the majority owner of the team, because that's that's a fact,
and he has paid luxury tax payments before. But it's
important to note that that was four different seasons I
think totally about twenty seven million dollars.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, And.
Speaker 2: I can't do inflation calculations on a Friday. But that's
not gonna be the same as what they're facing this season.
Like they're contender. You know, they're gonna have a six
or seventh most expensive roster, but they're gonna have one
of the six or seven best chances probably to win
a title. So everyone still thinks they're gonna no matter
who decides and wins this thing and becomes the owner,
that they're still gonna pay it. But yeah, you're always
thinking in the back of your head, like if this
team stumbles or you know they're forty two and forty,
like are you gonna pay one hundred and ten million
dollar tax? And my thing is, and I've heard you
talk about this before too, but it's not talked about
enough in the NBA landscape. Paying the luxury tax is
one thing, right Dan, because you're you're paying money out,
but you're also not getting money in. So when you're
a non tax paying team, like not only you don't
have to pay one hundred and ten million, but you
probably get a slice of you know, twenty five million
per team.
Speaker 3: So it's a.
Speaker 2: Really big one hundred and forty million dollar difference. And
I know after talking to people with the team or
just learning what the NBA and more, that's like how
they pay their expenses.
Speaker 3: That's how they pay for you know, everyone on the team.
Speaker 2: And then the staff gets their own room with the
four seasons when they're on the road in LA.
Speaker 3: So that stuff matters. Even though I know these.
Speaker 2: Numbers for the valuations the teams are crazy. So yeah,
this is a The ownership thing is just a weird
gray cloud that sometimes is the big cloud, sometimes it's
a small cloud. But until the courts, I guess, settle it,
you're just kind of hoping that this team is finally
good and that they're run by a really really smart
GM and that he has been empowered to make financial moves.
It might be spendy, but are going to lead to
giving this team the best chance they've had to win
a title in over twenty years.
Speaker 1: And I do think I'm always reticent to give you know,
owners billionaire's credit, but like when we saw the Clippers
run scared from this, when we saw the Nuggets run
scared from it, the generals do deserve credit, like because
nothing's gonna happen mid season that dramatically lowers their task.
Believe if they make a talent shutting. They've agreed to
foot float this for a year, and I think they
deserve credit for doing that. But also it was kind
of just like, you have no reason not to do
that because the Timbros boxman, because they were so damn
good and that's what it made it easy. But it's
also like, yeah, they deserve credit. We saw these other teams,
like the Clippers specifically make no sense with what they're
framing of why they let Paul George walk. So I
commend them for that. As we get to the actual
basketball and I'm gonna let you dictate where we go here.
What is the biggest storyline that you'll be tracking for
this team, whether it's just to start the season or
throughout the.
Speaker 2: Entire year expectations it's playing simple In my mind, it's
it's the fact that two years ago when they came
off that Grizzly I mean, when they lost to the
Grizzlies in the first round, and Wolves fans will say
that they should have won, and I believe that too,
but the Grizzlies ended up pulling out by just executing more.
They made one of the biggest trades in NBA history.
They go get go bet, they try this two big thing.
I think at the time that it happened, Dan, the
league and fans like myself were still thinking small ball,
small ball, small ball, and like, we're actually just gonna,
you know, hashtag size matters.
Speaker 3: Like we're just gonna lean into playing big.
Speaker 2: And it didn't work that first year, and then it
was like they got to blow it up and stuff.
But from a national perspective, you're right, it didn't work.
But there wasn't nuance to like, well, Carl missed over
half the season and there was a lot of change
and all this stuff. So excuses are not. They ran
it back, they had year two, and they didn't have
high expectations last year. I think they're over underwin total
coming into last season was somewhere in like the mid
forties forty six.
Speaker 3: I mean, they smashed it.
Speaker 1: I meant on it, but I was I was a
little bit surprised at how lo it.
Speaker 2: Was they and they smashed it. So this year now
again all summer, when you listen to you know, a
Zach Low or you listen to any national podcasts, they're
talking about the Wolves as one of the five or
six teams that can win a title. Well, now that
the spotlights back on you, Minnesota has the most the
highest increase in nationally televised games this year compared to
any other team, Like they're going to be on big TV, ESPN,
all that stuff like twenty some times. So how do
you respond to that? Because Minnesota kind of had their
best seasons when they didn't really have the brightlight lights
on them. And now the bright lights, especially because Aunt
and what he did in the Olympics and just his persona,
the bright lights are going to be on them. And
that's great when you're winning. But if you stumble, that's
how you're on you know, first take the next morning
in the in the A blocks. So it will be
how does a team that is still And people don't
want to hear this, but Aunt is twenty three. J
mcdanal's is twenty four. I think nas Reed is twenty
four to twenty five. Rob Dillingham is like nineteen or twenty.
They have a lot of youth that's going to play
a big role. Yes, Carl's older, Mike Conley's in his
mid thirties, Rudy Gobert. But to me, it's still a
young team, and how does a young ish team handle
those expectations, especially if things don't start off, you know,
as well as they started off last season.
Speaker 1: I've can talk to you about this element of those
expectations for hours because it still fascinates me months later.
The Rob Dillingham acquisition the White I framed it is.
I respect it. It was creative and if it pans out,
they're going to look like geniuses. But it was just
wildly risky. And then you kind of compare that just
the idea of you mentioned bringing in a twenty year
old on a team that has title expectations, Like you
really have to believe that the front office and coaching
staff are a lockstep with how this is going to
be handled, because we've kind of seen it go sideways
in Denver over the past couple of years, where Michael
Malone has pivoted away from like maybe not Christian Brown,
but Peyton Watson against the Wolves last year, just going
to justin holiday instead, And so I kind of want
to start there with the move was what were your
overall I guess let's actually start with what's important. What
were your overall impressions when had happened? Were you like
me when you saw a notification coming in and it
was like, oh, the Wolves have acquired the number eight pick,
and I was like, where did Karl Anthony Towns get?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is he on the Spurs?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: That was my first reaction.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm so glad you bring that up, because life
moves so fast now in the Internet era that we
just forget things that happened two months ago, and it's
important to take take a second timeout and be like
when that was announced that the Wolves were trading up
to eight with the Spurs, it was just like the
Minnesota Timberwolves are now moving up to eight. And if
you're a Wolve's fan, you're like, well, that's impossible because
we have no money, like we were poor, Like we
have no assets. Everyone said roll in, so it'd be
like they had to have traded like you said, Carl,
or maybe they traded nas So everyone kind of had
a lump in their throat when it happened, and then
to find out that they essentially just kind of and
I'm I'm learning more and more about this Dan as
I continue to put things on my credit card. They
just kind of kicked it down the road and said,
we'll just take whatever we can down the road.
Speaker 3: Like what twenty thirty are we even going to be here?
Is life going to exist? Like?
Speaker 2: What is so once you found out the parameters of
the trade. Yes, it's always risky, especially for a smaller
market to do something where you're giving an asset that's
unprotected or lightly protected, giving that a way way down
the road because you don't know.
Speaker 3: What it's going to be like.
Speaker 2: But if you're Tim Conley, I think this is kind
of one of the most badass things about him is
that I referenced that Grizzly series he came in and Dan,
you know this, like when when a new GM or
president of basket operations comes in, sometimes they just have
like the easiest first year. They can just kind of
see what the ingredients are, like, figure it out, and
then and make a move. There's like no expectations. Tim
Conley made the Rudy go Beartrade like seven weeks after
he signed with Minnesota, Like that's pretty crazy. So, but
he identified we need to rebound better, we need to
protect the room, we need to play better defense. Let
me just go get that, and he got it coming
off this Maverick series where he watched the team that
was really good at defense, but just you know, when
they got down to eight seconds on a shot clock
and a broken play and they needed someone to just
get a shot, it was like Ant And then I
think maybe the second best option was nas Read. They
just didn't have a lot of guys that could create
their own shot, create for others.
Speaker 3: Dribble. It's kind of my joke sometimes.
Speaker 2: So again, Tim Conley just identified in the draft kind
of a weakness. I don't get the move from the
Spurs perspective, even though I know they're kind of building
up assets for when Wenby's in his prime, but to
go out and address another need that specifically a backup
point guard, a bucket getter, a guy that can space
the floor and hit threes. It was kind of one
hundred percent approval rating. Again, at some point you'll have
to pay that penalty of that you're going to give
up a pick. And but is Tim Conley even here
in twenty thirty who owns the team?
Speaker 3: Is Ant here?
Speaker 2: And I don't say that but grudgingly, like I hope
he's here, But it's so far down the road and
for them to and this is starting to become more national,
it was kind of the first mover right in terms
of this new CBA. We're all going to be in trouble,
We're all gonna be hurt from it. And Tim Conley
kind of found this one little sliver of like, you know,
like the goat path in three hundred, like maybe we
can just go that way, and maybe we can just
use this asset that everyone has but they haven't really
thought of using to move up in the draft and
to get a guy who Dan. They couldn't spend seven
million dollars on a backup point guard because of the
new CBA in the second apron so to use the
draft to do that was really creative. And again, at
some point in twenty thirty, when I'm in my forties,
I'll be like, well, you know, they don't have that
pick anymore, but I don't think we're gonna care because
they needed more offense. They needed more guys that can
play alongside Ant. And also, when you do it that
way versus I don't know, acquiring an older VET, you're
still building up your foundation, right, So I mean you
for a team that's all in Dan and a team
that has no assets.
Speaker 3: You kind of have like a.
Speaker 2: Core young four of Aunt, Jayden Nas and Rob Dillingham
and they're all under twenty five. Like that's pretty impressive
for a team that's coming off a Western Conference final strip.
Speaker 1: How do you think they will go about though, juggling
the development of Rob Dillingham versus the expectations that you're
talking like does he just I mean when you look
at the depth chart, like, okay, they do have nikil
Oxaar and to Walker you can stagger my comedy. PJ
Dosers on this team. Joe Ingles is on this team,
but like, is he just the backup point guard?
Speaker 2: If you listen, you said something about are the front
office and the coaching staff like lockstep in Minnesota, it's
pretty awesome. Tim Conley raves about Chris Finch, and Chris
Finch kind of raves about Tim Conley. So it does
seem like those two levels of the organization are really
hand in hand. But Tim Conley has also pulled no
punches of being like Rob's gonna play, you know, like
it's not like the Wolves also in the draft in
the first round, late in the first round draft Terrenshin
and junior who's more proven, kind of an older, older
rookie like twenty four come and plug and play. But
when you go get the eighth pick in the draft
and a lottery pick, those guys have to play like that.
This we're not talking G League stints and that stuff
like that. Guy's got to get minutes. So expectations to me,
Dan or the number one thing. But one of the
two or three most important storylines is what do you
do with Rob? Because Rob I watched.
Speaker 3: All the Summer League games. I was out there in Vegas.
The first couple of games.
Speaker 2: He was really asked to just playmake and not score,
and it was kind of a growing pains for him.
But that's what they're gonna need. So there's gonna be
nights with his size and just being a rookie where
he's gonna be one for eight right from the field
and with probably more turnovers than assists. And for a
team that is a contender trying to, you know, quote
win now, it's gonna be fascinating to watch. I don't
know if I have a firm answer of how long
Chris Finch will give a leash, but I know Tim
Conley wants that leash to be pretty big, because again
he is in even with his rookie status, he's probably
an upgrade over at Jordan McLaughlin in terms of just
all the different skills that robbers the table. He's more
dynamic obviously than a Kyle Anderson. But he has weaknesses.
He is small. He is he is not my hyke.
I stood next him. He is a small guy. So
and that's fine, right. We've seen guys like Trey Young
make a name for themselves being small. But it's just
gonna be interesting to see on those nights where Rob
might just not have it because he is nineteen and
he is a rookie. What does Finch do? Does he
pull the plug early? How does that affect his development
and his mental status? So that's another Really, despite ANTHONYA.
Wards and Karnte Towns, Rudugabert, all these big names, what
happens with Rob Dillingham in his first year is going
to be really really interesting to watch.
Speaker 1: People keep calling him small and I've never been with
him in person. He's listed at six three. That's not
like over is he like? Is that is this like
six ' one?
Speaker 2: He is such a great kid, and he is so
fucking competitive, So I love getting to hang out with
him and talk to him in Vegas. I am I
like to round up. Everyone should round up and everything.
I'm like six to two. He's not six three, and
I'm like a buck seventy five, and we're probably on
the same scale. So again, he's not he can add weight.
I mean, he's gonna be in an NBA lifting program.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much taller he can get. I've
people have told me you can grow in your early twenties.
So but if I kind of joke about this, then
if he was six six to ten, the Wolves would
have never been able to get him, because would have
gone first overall, right, like in a week draft, Like
if you had a six six bucket getter like him
with that type of handle. I mean, Rob's gonna enter
the league with one of the ten best handles. He
probably has the best handle on the Timberwolves already and
he hasn't played a game. So he is small. He's
gonna have to learn that. But you know, look at
who he could be out there with in rotations, Like
Aunt is super long, Jaden is really long, Rudy like nasried, like,
you're gonna have him protected, I think on defense where
they're not gonna be able to pick on him as
much as maybe you would on a on a Charlotte
team or something that doesn't have all that that length
and defense, So it'll be something to monitor. But man,
that kid, that kid wants to win.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He has a cool connection with John wall Like, he
has a a lot of mentors and a lot of
people in his life that want him to be good.
And I would be so shocked if he, even as
a rookie, doesn't come in and have some sort of
a positive impact.
Speaker 1: So you've kind of touched upon both of these questions
already though, but let's start with a positive. What would
be the thing that you're most excited to see about
him as or the like where he'll leave the biggest
impact positively as a rookie.
Speaker 2: Just offense, just his ability to the wolves. This is
kind of a deep cut for people listening that maybe
aren't diehard Timberlles fans, but like they tried this with
Jalen Noel, kind of another smaller guard like bucket Getter
and stuff like, can you also play the point it
never really worked out for Jalen Nowell and then he
kind of fizzled out. So can this guy come in
and give them something that you know, they have so
much offense with Aunt and Carl might be the best
shooting big man of all time or whatever, but they
don't really have like that type of player, Like I know,
it's it's easy to say this, like a Jamal Crawford
when he was on the team, or like a Derek Rowse.
Just this guy that can come in and just cook,
just give you points. And yes, Minnesota was really good defensively,
but as you started to see throughout the playoffs, it
showed itself in the Denver series a little bit, and
then it really was highlighted against the MAVs. They just
needed another scoring option or playmaker alongside Aunt. Luca and
Kyrie are probably the best to do it right now
in the league. So nothing against them, but you can
make comparisons to like if ant Is or Luca, like,
can Rob maybe eventually down the road be your Kyrie
and can those two guys play together. Ants about as
big of a shooting guard as you can have next
to Rob, so he'll protect them defensively, but just that
offensive playmaking. He was really dynamic in a couple of
those summerleague games. I think he had like a sixteen
to two assist turn of a ratio in his first
two games, which again it's summer league, but that was
big because they need another guy that can get others involved.
Speaker 3: So it's really exciting.
Speaker 2: I kind of thought back to the summer conversation that
they were just going to run it back, probably lose
Kyle Anderson, make a small move draft at twenty seven,
and that was it so for them to go out.
I mean, how many times have you you've seen a
team come off of conference finals or a championship run
and then also have a lottery pick. It's pretty rare.
So all that kind of put into the blender. It
makes you pretty excited for what this team could do
on the positive end next season.
Speaker 1: I think what I'm most I'm hoping they play him
an ant together a good amount. But one of the
things that I really liked about digging into diling Ham
is like he will get off the ball when he's
on at his like best, He'll get off the ball
really quickly, and the idea of being able to catch
it and like go after a careening bent defense already.
I just feel like it's something we've kind of gotten
away from because he's so central what the timer Wolves
are doing offensively, and Dillingham might be the guy like
he might even be able to unlock that for a
Jade McDaniels where it's like, if we want Jane McDaniels
to put the ball on the four more if Rob Dillingham,
your primary ball handler, is able to get off of
it quickly after bending the defense, get it to Jane
McDaniels and he's able to attack. But even just seeing
that element with Anthony Edwards to kind of simplify or
streamline his offense, I think could go a really long
way for this team. I just you kind of already
mentioned this. I don't know what the president is for
a team as good as the Timberwolves to add such
a high lottery pick, and then what does that lottery
pick do when he's actually playing games for said team?
Speaker 2: And this will the team is still going to look
pretty much the same in terms of defensive identity and
offensive structure this next year. You're just trying to add
a little spice with Rob and what Terren Shannon Junior
can do. Who's really impressive his ability to get downhill
and draw files and things the Wolves need. But one
thing Tim Conley is hammered all summer during any media
availability is playing faster or at least getting onto transition more.
I mean, this is really really dumb down, which is
how my brain works. But if you get stops on
defense and you're really good, why not get the ball
and turn into transition and try to just you know,
that's easier offense than facing a set defense right in
like a half court situation. So with Aunt, with Jaydeen,
with Knas, but also Rob Dillingham, who is super quick,
super fast and it's really crafty around the rim, that
might just be a way to you know, maybe it's
not all going to be about fixing the half court
off which has always been a bugaboo for this team
under Chris Finch. Maybe it's just about getting easier buckets.
And I think Rob will really compliment ant in that
way that just hey, Rudy and everyone, you know, Jane
McDaniel's all defense, that they got to stop, get the
ball out and let's run. Yeah, to your point, they
were twenty eighth in average offensive possession time after grabbing
a defensive rebound. So if Rob Dillingham or anybody on
this team can bring that more pacing element, is there
anything aside from just the size that would concern you
though about playing Dillingham major minutes out of the gate?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Just again back to that. Summer League is a good
opportunity to learn, right. I know, we love watching it
now and it's all on TV and stuff, and we
want our teams to win because we're already like missing
NBA action. But they really put him kind of square peg,
round hole and said, we want you to focus on
playmaking and then get your shot second. And if you
really watch all the Wolf Summerleague games, he had four
games of that, and then the fifth one, a couple
of guys were you know, sitting out to kind of
get towards the end of your stay in Vegas, and
he just was allowed to shoot and he filled it up.
I mean, it was incredible to watch. So the biggest
challenge for him, and he said this, like he verbally said,
it was frustrating to not be able to kind of
do what I do, but I'm also super respecting of
what they want from me. So he is going to
probably be gifted the backup point guard behind Mike Conley.
Speaker 3: Mike is coming off.
Speaker 2: I think he played seventy six games last year, which
is the most he's played. I think since like his
mid twenties. That sounds great. Mike wanted to play all
eighty two. I don't know if I love it, because
as you watch down the playoff, like as they got
through Denver and into Dallas series, Mike just kind of
ran out of gas and they need Mike Conley. You
can make any criticism you want about why should a
team with this much talent still need a thirty seven
year old point guard, but they do. He is so
important for them on the court and kind of keeping
everyone in their right lanes. So I want to see
Mike Conley ball out in like April in May, which
means Rob's gonna have to be force fed minutes and
is he going to be able to run the offense again.
He's a better player than Jordan McLoughlin, even though Jordan
has been in the league for a while. But Jordan
mclofflin was a really good like table setter, kind of
that point guard you know in the Chris Paul Mold
of getting everyone in their spots. I don't know if
Rob will be able to do that in October, and
that's gonna be a big question mark because you know
he can score, but they might not need him to score,
especially if he's out there in a you know, a
rotation in the early second quarter with like Carl and
Aunt and Nas. They don't need you to score, They
just need you to facilitate and get those guys in
the right spots.
Speaker 1: Andy Edwards makes the all NBA leap. What to start here?
What impressed you or stood out the most about his
continued development last year?
Speaker 2: I this is this is where it gets Hallmarky. I
just have enjoyed Dan. I've been covering this team for
I think it's my eighth year and being here for
the whole story. You know, he came in during COVID.
I mean he hasn't even been It was less than
four years ago to the was drafted, right because the
twenty twenty COVID draft happened in like November, and just
to see all the different like I always kind of
referenced it as like years in college, like his first
year he played alongside this professor Ricky Rubio, and then
he had d Lo and they had Pat Bev and
now he's got Mike Conlin. He's just kind of I mean,
he's getting in better and better shape. Obviously, what happened
with the Olympics and Team USA this summer was big
for him because he loves Katie and now he's on
the bus with them. Right he looks up to Lebron
and now he's you know, running pick and roll with him.
He loves Steph Curry. Now they're like making TikTok. So
I just think watching this kid, who it seems like
he's been in our lives for a really long time.
But he just turned twenty three in August. He's got
his own shoe, he's got his own you know, star
movie on Netflix, and now he's a gold medalist and
he's coming off a Western Conference finals trip. So just
to watch him continue to get better and to continue
to love basketball more and more. It's again, I'm sure
you probably would have preferred a really specific basketball answer,
but I just kind of love watching, you know, I
don't have a kid like he seems like my child.
Speaker 3: Just to watch him grow and mature and do all
these things. He's about as.
Speaker 2: Well rounded of a face of the franchise as you
could get, and Minnesota really was you know, no, that's
no shame to Carl or anything, but they just didn't
really have that since Kevin Garnett left. A guy that
you can put all the billboards around and all your
trust in, and that is going to demand respect from
like the national audience. And I think that's what Ant
does right now, is he demands respect from the old
the old guard or the national pundits or anything. So, uh,
this guy's the limit for him, and really as far
as he goes, I think that's as far as his
team will go.
Speaker 1: I think what also helps because you mentioned this at
the top of the podcast about the Wolves being in
the national spotlight more even just looking at their national
TV games. Ant's not just someone who seems like he
enjoys it, but like he'll just he'll he'll take so
much of the criticism and it'll just roll off him
where it's look at what he said about the older
players in the NBA recently, and it just like to
have someone who can kind of soak up the criticism
or most of that attention and you know they can
deal with it. That does, by extension, make life. I
would think easier on a youngster like Rob Dillingham. But also,
we know what the narratives will be about Rudy Gobert,
we know what the narrators will be about Karl Anthony Towns.
And as the Wolves enter this next phase of hey,
we're capslock contenders, we're not just happy to be here,
we're cap slot contenders, I think having that magnet almost
really works in their favor.
Speaker 2: I totally agree it's weird to think of Ant somehow
as like the big brother, even though he's still one
of the youngest players on the team. But there were
moments where I think Karnzi Towns had his best season
or one of his best seasons, and especially a good
playoff run because Ant just kind of had his back,
right And like same with Rudy Gobert. I mean, Rudy
Gobert is always going to be a talking point among
NBA fans and just kind of a punchline and a
lot of jokes. But Ant's got his back and I
think that stuff really matters. And that's another thing too,
in kind of my Hallmark card conversation about his growth
is just you know, I don't think anyone comes in
at nineteen and can be a leader even if you
want to be, you just don't have the experience, even
if you want to demand the room and run the
locker room. But he has really grown into the fact
of like he's given you know, postgame speeches in the
locker room, or he him and Finch are kind of
one two in ways to uplift guys if they've had
a bad night, or he takes a lot of the
blame too. Like you said, he's kind of water resistant
in terms of anything that hits him.
Speaker 3: He's capable and.
Speaker 2: Confident enough to just kind of let it run off
his back. And I think he does really enjoy all
the smoke, Like I think he enjoys like you bring
it all to me, leave it away from my toothmates.
Speaker 1: He said, he definitely enjoys all the smoke. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: So I think his leadership too, is a big part
of why this turnaround has happened, because they've just again
never had that guy that, for better or worse, has
kind of been able to walk what they talk and ants.
So far, you know, we'll see again because now the
spotlight's on him even more after kind of a you know,
and Dan, You know this, like he just kind of
says what's on his mind. He doesn't take He's been
through so much in his personal life and a lot
of people have that. I don't think he really cares
about what funny thing he says in an Adidas commercial.
He's like, whatever, it's just a comment. So as long
as he continues to back it up, I think he
can kind of say whatever he wants. But uh, again,
that goes back to those expectations like if they stumble,
or his SHOT's not falling, or he's just not having
a good start out the break of in October, then
the heat's going to pick up a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, and how will he be able to handle that?
Speaker 1: Do you think so? I think what probably impressed me
the most was actually his playmaking last year, and I
think that that's still the area I'm looking to see
if he can get even better in. Do you think
that he's able to Like, is there a next level
to Anthony Edwards the passer?
Speaker 2: That's such a good transition because where it comes off
the Rob Dealingham thing, right where if if the Rob
Dillingham thing you just realized early on, hey, he just
probably needs little less of a leash, he's going to
be great, but maybe this season he's not going to
have the impact. Okay, well this who's the backup point
guard then? Because Nikil Alexander Walker is also coming off
a really good year and is probably going to get
paid next summer someone not Minnesota. But I don't think
he's comfortable running like the backup point So while they
did upgrade on offense with not only Rob and TJ,
but also Joe Engels, losing Kyle Anderson, who was not
a offensive threat in terms of scoring. He was their
backup point guard and he was awesome at it and
he was just you.
Speaker 3: Know, losing him defensively is gonna suck.
Speaker 2: But I think there's some offensive stuff that you're really
gonna miss, and it's gonna be highlighted on cold nights
in January. So to the playmaking part, yeah, can ant
kind of you know, he he has followed a Devin
Booker like trajectory a little bit. Can he continue to
stack playmaking to his resume, because you know, he can
rebound really well. He obviously can score from any level,
but if he can also just you know, if Finch
realizes on a Tuesday, Dan Rob doesn't have it tonight,
we don't have a backup point guard, Ant, we kind
of need you to also do this. I don't think
in the past Ant would want to because it makes
him have to think a little bit more and now
focused on what he's good at. But I think now,
as he evolves and becomes more mature, he'll be like, Okay, whatever.
Speaker 3: I got to do to win.
Speaker 2: So his playmaking and if he can be an emergency
kind of slot behind Mike is going to be a
fascinating thing to watch because he's shown you flashes, especially
like in that Phoenix series as he started to just
dissect the coverage. I mean, by game four, Phoenix didn't
really have anything they could throw at him that he didn't.
Speaker 3: Figure out and realize.
Speaker 2: So that's probably the area of growth that still has
the most to go. But if he reaches his potential
as a playmaker, then you're just talking about one of
the three or four best players in the league.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was digging into this a little bit more,
and I feel like the low hanging fruit is him
And he did increase the share of like his drives
that ended with a pass last year, but it's still
not like super high relative to people that use as
many drives. But when I was digging into it a
little bit more, this Mike just come back to Rob Dillingham.
But it might be the overall spacing is if they
can put him in situations where he's getting the ball
and doesn't have to do as much work first before
he's making that past or taking a shot. I'm wondering
if like better spacing or again, Rob Dillingham already bends
the defense and catches it and is able to play
make from that, wondering if that could help him take
the next levels of pastor because the low hanging fruit
for me is just, hey, you're drawing in defense as
no matter what, whether they're on tilt or what have you.
When you're on your drives, like get off the ball
a little bit quicker doing that. I'm just wondering, and
that's I guess that's my question to you. How much
of that aspect of his game is more so a
product of the just like the half court spacing and
personnel environment he's been working in for the past few years.
Speaker 2: I mean, low hanging fruit, double edged sow or whatever
you want to say. The rudy Gobert experiment has finally
uplifted this franchise and now they're a contender and they
play really good defense. But you're kidding yourself if you
don't think that he clogs up a lot of space, right,
and when you have two bigs in there, even in
the fact that Carl can space it a little more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were.
Speaker 2: Times where Ant was in a five man lineup with
let's just say, you know, Jordan McLaughlin, Nikil, Alexander Walker,
Kyle Anderson, and Rudy Gobert, and it's like, oh, Nikhil
is improving as a shooter, but none of these guys
can shoot, and eyone's gonna pack the paint and I'm
supposed to still kind of figure my way out to
navigate this and get to the rim. That's why I
think this year, and even like I said earlier about
maybe this team becoming a Gazelle like team down the
road after the really ten year ends, is just what
does this team look like again.
Speaker 3: With five out?
Speaker 2: But you have guys like Aunt and Jaden and maybe
Nas that have learned to play better defense because back
like when Ryan Sanders was running the ship for a
little bit, they kind of tried that right, like Carlott
the five a lot of just spacing and stuff, and yeah,
it opened things up more, but they were a sive
on defense. So threading that needle of how can we
still play good defense but also keeping more shooters around.
I mean, this was the best defensive team in the
league last year, Dan, and all they did in the
offseason was go get offensive players. So they're gonna take
a step back defensively. But even if you fall from
let's say first to fifth or seventh, can you go
from they were like sixteenth in the league in offense,
can you get that thing up to ninth or tenth?
Because that, to me, there's there's wiggle room to come
down the defensive ring a little bit. But if they
can increase the offense, and most of that is led
by Ant, that's how you put yourself, you know, level
up right and kind of fix what hurt you against
that the MAVs in that Dallas series.
Speaker 1: And I think the other question I have about their
offense is there a way for them to make life
easier on Ant? In terms of his shot quality, I
think he's actually pretty good, Like when he has to
generate his own looks out of io. I think the
shots he generates a lot of the time away from
the basket are higher quality than the shots he takes
and makes by the way at the basket. But this
might just I can maybe I'm just continuing to circle
back to the Rob Dillingham element of it, But is
this a team that is built to maybe simplify his
life a little bit in terms of the quality of
half court shots that he's able to take.
Speaker 2: Rob Dillingham again, Terren Sheennon Junr. Who if we're talking
like the Leonard Miller arc of like who should I
buy Penny Stocking? I'm a big, big tern Shennon Junior fan,
because again, he just gets the rim. He's a pretty
good handle, he can space the floor, catch and shoot.
The more guys that can score, again this is pretty
dumb down, But the more guys on the court that
can score and that a threat are just going to
open up and make things easier for Aunt And I
think that is you know there were you probably think
of Team USA and Anthony Edwards as like the last
couple of games where he was mostly cheering on the
bench and it was the Goats, Lebron and Stephan KD
kind of finishing things off. But during that entire run,
I mean for five or six games, Ant was like
their leading score. And it's again, he's not gonna be
able to play with Katie Stephan Lebron every night. But
just having those options out there, I mean, he had
wide runways to do whatever he wanted to get to
the rim. And I think again, just having a little
more offensive threat and getting Carl more involved. That's kind
of always been the thing I thought, Carl, this is
so stupid, Dan. But with these new TV's getting installed,
they're like, hey, why don't you throw something on and
just see how clear the pictures. And my first thought
was always like YouTube Nuggets Wolves game seven or like
Wolf's Soun's game four, just to see how clear the
picture was. And I was reminded of like, oh my god,
Carl had really nice bursts of offense, and that too
just opened things up or gave Aunt more space or
just more time to be a you know, his his
big thing is a killer in the fourth quarter and
to be able to give him more options down the
stretch to win games. So, yeah, the more offense this
team throws on the court, the more chances, I think,
and can become more efficient, take less of those kind
of mid range shots. He still loves every now and
then to really kind of beat a guy down and
take a twenty footer, and Finch is okay with that
because he knows that. I think from a shot profile,
it's become more analytically friendly since he was a rookie.
But if that can continue to grow too, and he's
just really efficient again. I know it sounds crazy for
like a national audience member listening to this, but if
he can become more of a playmaker and take more
efficient shots and get to the rim a little more,
what else would you want from him? And he's winning,
what else are you needed to do to be a
top five player in the league.
Speaker 1: We'll start quibbling about his like off ball.
Speaker 3: Defense and be like, better come over with something.
Speaker 1: So the bigs the three and bigs the three centers
nasri Contee Towns were to go Bert, I won't list
off the on off date. I put it outline just
because I still it just blows my mind to look
at it on paper. When you look at what the
numbers where from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three
until last season, just night and day difference. What were
some of the biggest factors that led to the you know,
the triple Big model. Obviously they're not all playing at
the same time, but that that triple Big rotation working
so well last year.
Speaker 2: Well, he would probably not want to say this, but
I think it's just Mike Conley. And I know Mike
Conley is not the thread for all of those things.
But if you remember, right, like they make the Rudi
Gobert trade in the summer of twenty twenty two, Delo
is still the starting point guard this team.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of off the.
Speaker 2: Court dynamics that don't really gel, and then on the
court too, they just I kind of always joke that
no one really knew how to speak French. You go
get Mike Conley, you go get Niki Alexander Walker at
the deadline in spring of twenty three, and then all
of a sudden things start to click a little more.
And then this past season it just really I mean
half the team was like very much fluent in French.
So I think having people that understand Rudy because Rudy's
not the best offensive player on the team where he's
not even the best second best offensive big. It's Carl,
it's Nas. But to me, it's still about unlocking Rudy.
And I don't mean in post touches. I mean in
ways that Rudy knows how to score, you know, lobbed
and put backs. Getting that figured out is harder because
with Carl you can space him out. You can just say,
hey man, just shoot eight. Three is a game like
you're you called yourself this title like prove it type thing.
So and I also think too, and this is one
of the reasons why last season was so fun for
me as a fan. Was that to your point about
blowing it up earlier, when things don't work in the
NBA specifically, it's always just like all ripped the band
aid off completely, send everyone out, let's redo this, restart
the console type thing and start a new two K.
Whereas the Wolves just said, no, we're just going to
lean into like everyone knows each other's name, like we're
going to lead the continuity a little bit. And I
think that helped too, of just an off season where
they were able to kind of work together figure out
and it did. It really clicked where now around the league, right,
Like I don't think Boston stole anything from Minnesota. Boston
as a juggernaut, but you're seeing more and more teams
now be like, hey, we're gonna actually lean into size,
like we're gonna play multiple bigs. Nas Reed came in
as an undrafted center from LSU and then kind of
downshifted to power forward, and now a lot of us
kind of think like, is he a three right? Like
it's crazy to say this again if you don't watch
the Wolves a lot, but like, is he like an
Aaron Gordon? Now he's not him defensively, but like you
can kind of play all those guys at the same
time in small stints. And I think that in and
of itself, playing nas, Karl and Ruddy together is just
a major feather in the cap for Chris Finch that
he somehow found a way to pull all this off
because that size the defense got them to the Western
Conference finals. But that size on a lot of Knights
is but just kind of bullied opponents into, you know,
wearing them down and winning those games.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I have to go to nas Reed here then,
because you mentioned him, I don't understand and I've seen
too much of it. Mostly not. You know, Minnesota media,
you mentioned nas Reed is a three. I think nas
Reid I want to use the word fantastic. I'm gonna
say I think he's become incredibly underrated defensively. What is
it that I'm missing where there's like this concern about
I thought his rim protection proof last year and he's
always been pretty good on the perimeter, and I think
that stuck for the most part last season. What is
it like? What am I missing?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Is there actual defensive concern about nas Reed? I've just
seen him painted as a fringe liability too often. So
there's either something I'm missing or maybe this is a
rare occasion where I'm right and a lot of other
people are wrong.
Speaker 2: Oh I love those moments, by the way, That's how
it helps me sleep at night. No, nas Reed, and
this isn't this isn't hyperbolic. And I think nas Reed
is the greatest, like one of the greatest stories in
Timberwolve's franchise history. He's the greatest developmental story. Again, he
came out, he was a highly rated high school kid,
goes to a big program and then doesn't get He's
essentially deemed not one of the sixty best players in
the draft, and go back and look at that draft
and there were a lot of guys right that, like
Jerk was drafted seventh.
Speaker 1: You said that name on a podcast that you did
with Dane, and I have not. I was in the
bag for Jared Culver when they went and got him.
I was like, oh, yeah, like they know what they're doing.
And I had not even thought about that name.
Speaker 2: I was like close to getting to Jared culver tattoos.
So I'm glad I didn't do that at the time.
But but no, I mean nas nas has just continued
to work on his game. Like there was a this
is kind of silly, but there was a viral video
going around the other day about him and Katie and
a couple other guys working out down in California and
nas Reed has a guard like handle.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: He is just hitting with these weird off balance step
back threes. Talking to people around the team, there are
very few people that are in the gym in the
summers more than nas Reid. H He's everything you want
and like a folklore kind of player. He loves Minnesota.
He probably should have made damn near double of what
his contract is right now, but he kind of took
a hometown discount, and normally you see those with stars,
you don't see like, you know, middle of the pack
guys taking less money, but he did. He loves being
in Minnesota, so he's continued to work on his game.
I always laugh and joke that when he was in
Summer League as a rookie, he couldn't jump over the
free throw line and that's painted on the ground right
like there's no depth. Now he can almost jump from it,
like he has just gotten in such better shape.
Speaker 3: He listens.
Speaker 2: He's also won those lean years because he's maybe the
second longest tenured Wolf right now on the team. He's
you know, when you say the most competitive player on
the Timberwolves is a lot of people are gonna say
Anthony Edwards. It's probably nas read and he takes losing
the hardest. And I just think all of that Dan
kind of factors into He's never gonna be Aaron Gordon defensively,
He's never going to be all defense. But just the
fact of this team doesn't always need I mean, they
have the defensive player of the Year, and they have
a guy who made second team All Defense and Jane
mcdanal's you don't really need much more, right, Like, you
just kind of need guys to be average and that'll
amplify everything else. I think Nas has been like, hey,
if i can just be average or sometimes above average defensively,
it'll act atually look better because I'm surrounded by potential
Hall of famers on the defensive ends. So him not
being a sieve has been a huge thing for them,
allowing them to play because Nas has to play Dan
like he yes, you have Carl making sixty million, Yes
you have Rudy making fifty million, but Nas Reed has
to be on the court because just too many good
things happen. He has that point five mentality of catch
the ball, kick it, dribble or shoot, but he's not
going to hold on to it and kill the shot clock,
kill the momentum. So he was the biggest revelation last
year in his growth and now he's a guy that
is kind of in a contract year.
Speaker 3: Again, he does have a player option next summer.
Speaker 2: Two. Radar can't really imagine a world. I don't want
to live in that world where like Nas isn't on
the team. So again next summer, you have a lot
of questions to answer and the ownership stuff. But for
this year, I mean, dude, Dan, he was not to
get too gambly on you, but he was eighty to
one to win six Men of the Year before the
season kicked off. Last year it was and when you're
eighty to one, that's pretty much saying you have no chance.
And he was a Man of the Year. So his
story is incredible. He's such a great dude. He loves
it here, the fans love him. And if he takes
another leap, I mean really truly, the ceiling for this
team just kind of evaporates.
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Because like his offensive growth
when you look and I think we saw this before
last year, like towards the latter half of the previous
season when he was playing a bunch, Like he just
continues to add these offensive layers to his game, Like
he has a floor game, and that was true before
last season. And I know his efficiency on some of
the floaters and turnarounds might have dipped, but like nas
Reed has that stuff in his bag. You mentioned step backs.
I think he only took like four or five step
backs last year and missed them all. But like, if
that's something that he's just able to do to have
another counter from the perimeter. But like, what does you know?
I'm rambling here now, but like what does a nas
red like leap or another step forward.
Speaker 3: Look like this?
Speaker 2: This is my answer on it. But like I remember
looking up his per thirty six numbers and I think
his total rebounds per thirty six last year were like
the lowest of his four or five year career. And
that's a really nitpicky thing to focus on. But in
my view, while this twenty four summer offseason whatever was great,
next year is going to be the big one because
Rudy Gobert has a player option, nas Reed has a
player option. Tim Connley has a player option. Right like
he kicked it down the curve or down the road
a year of whether or not he wants to pick
up his option and remain the president of the team,
that all effects or is affected by ownership. So for
NAS it's like if you if they've decided next summer,
Dan that hey, we're gonna pivot off of one of
the two highly paid bigs and we're gonna pay you
again and you're gonna be the second face of this
franchise or whatever they're gonna need him to rebound more.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: I know that sounds really minor, but like his offense
has continued to grow, he continues to shoot better from
the perimeter. Again, he can get to the bucket, he
can pump and go. So that's all great, and that's
just probably just gonna continue to get better. But you know,
the Rudy Gobert experiment, as I said earlier, was because
this team failed to secure rebounds in a playoff series
and Nas has never been the best rebounder and ant
rebounds reari well reguard, but Jayden is always on the perimeter,
so he doesn't rebound well. And Rob Small and Mike,
you just need more rebounding. And to your point earlier,
like can you continue to be average or slightly above
average defensively? So he'll give him points and he'll do
a lot of fun things and make a lot of
crazy shots, but can he kind of be a starting
four or five rebounder because rebounding has always been in
the Anthony Edwards era or something that's kind of been
an achilles heel for this team when it comes to
wins and losses.
Speaker 1: That's a honestly, that's a really good point, because I
think we can safely say that the three big model
is not going to be forever, and so there's a
point that there's only two of those dudes on this team.
He will have to play more solo big minutes, in
which case the rebounding becomes so much more important in
those things. Carl Anthony Towns, what did you make of
just the type of season hit he had last year?
Speaker 2: So again back to back to my geek Squad best
by story, but watching especially in that Phoenix series. Well,
actually you could make a case for the Denver series too,
but that Phoenix series is highlighted by just crazy, you know,
ant plays and talking shit to KD. And he had
that dunk to kind of close out Game four. But
in every one of those four games. Again, the Wolves
hadn't won a playoff series in like twenty years, and
Carl had never won a playoff series. Carl just gave
them these bursts and it was probably the most professional
basketball he's ever played. There wasn't a lot of talking
to officials, there wasn't a lot of theatrics or as
we call it in Minnesota, stray voltage. He just kind
of played basketball and I think again to my comp
about Aunt being a closer, sometimes all you need is
guys just in that second quarter, that third quarter to
kind of row the boat a little bit and keep
your head above water until your closers can close the game.
So I thought, you know, Carl's always going to be
an interesting character. What he says off the court, what
he kind of says is on or how he carries himself.
But when he locked in and just played basketball and
didn't really focus on any of the other stuff or
trying to say the right thing, I thought it was
some of his most professional basketball. Which you know, he's
twenty seven to twenty eight, like he's kind of getting
into his prime years.
Speaker 3: You would spec that. But I thought he had a
really good.
Speaker 2: Offensive performance in those four games against Phoenix and in
the Denver series. He'll never get credit for this, but
I thought he actually had really good defensive moments against
the best player in the league and NICOLEA.
Speaker 3: Jokic.
Speaker 2: So no one ever is gonna stop Jokic or you know,
the Embids or the Lucas of the world.
Speaker 3: It's just can you slow him down? Can you make
them work?
Speaker 2: And I thought Carl as good as he was offensively
against Phoenix was as good defensively, and again with with
a summer. The last couple of summers he's come off
of weird injuries like he had a risk thing the
first year of the Rudy stuff, he had the knee
or the calf. He seems about as healthy as he's
ever been. So again despite you know, Jane McDaniels is
gonna have a target on his back because he's making
way more money now, Like can you add a little offense?
Rudy is always going to have a target. Ant is
always gonna have a target. But if Carl were to
level up or just become, you know, the best version
of himself again that we've seen offensively, it just you're
starting to figure out if you're an opposing team and
Dan all these leaks right, all these waters coming at
you from nine different ways, Like there's only so many
holes you can plug against the Wolves right now. And
if Carl is, you know, in my mind taking seven
eight threes a game, I think that's a good way
to open up more stuff for Aunt two. So there's
just a lot of positive options that Chris Finch has
at his disposal, and no one in my mind can
take more of an offensive leap than Carl because you know,
Nasried is a great story and Rob Dillingham is a
fantastic rookie. But outside of Aunt, Carl is the most
talented player on the team. And if he can continue
to level up or build off what he just can't,
you know, a lot of monkeys off his back. Dan, Like,
I know he didn't win a title, but you know,
streets are saying that, like he's made it further in
the playoffs and drol embiid, so you know, he doesn't
have to worry about some of that stuff now, he
doesn't have to worry about the Jimmy Butlers. You can't
win without me because again, not a title, but he
was able to win without him. So it'll be a
fascinating twenty four to twenty five season for Cap.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was really impressed with his defense last year.
He's still the way he moved. I'm always worried he's
gonna like trip over himself, but like he was holding
up in space better and like he's just defensive floor
navigation veld a lot better. The actual sticking point I
have you already mentioned, like can we manifest him taking
he's he's only averaged more than one than seven three
point at times for thirty six minutes once and it
was twenty nineteen twenty when he played in thirty five games.
Can we please, just for the love of anything, just
get this dude to start. I don't call it chucking.
I know people are like, forced volume isn't okay? You
know what, force the volume already? Like, he's just too
good of a shooter to be taking like five threes
under five threes a game.
Speaker 2: Dan, if you said you were the greatest NBA podcaster
in the league and you podcasted twice a month, people
would be like, come on, man, like, what are you
doing right? Like, so if you say you're the best
shooting big man of all time and there's games you
take one or two threes, like, you know, so if
you want to be the best at it, like and
I think Carl's a really great shoot, like, then just
increase the volume. That's why this pod is great because
there's so many podcasts of it. You do so many episodes.
So for Carl, it's like, man, you just got to
let it rip, especially on a team again, all the
fun stuff you remember of the twenty three twenty four Wolves.
Speaker 3: You forget that three minutes left in the game.
Speaker 2: They just didn't have an offense and they didn't run anything,
and there's a lot of bad shots. To me, Carl
taking a three, even if it's from thirty feet is
a better option a lot of times than what else
they would do. Right, So if you're in a late
shot cock situation, I just want Carl to shoot, even
if he's on the bench, just shoot rather than like
the ball touch Rudy's fingers or anything. So yeah, he
needs to And you know, we try to ask Finch
this all the time, and I'm going to ask him
at media Day again. Finch isn't gonna put a number
on it, but to me, I do have a number,
and I'm with you, Like if he just said, hey,
whatever happens tonight in the game plan, we're building this out.
Speaker 3: We have this plan.
Speaker 2: But Carl, you just have to take eight threes or
like you don't get dinner. That would be awesome for me,
because again, his volume has never matched and he loves
the efficiency part of it, but it's like, we don't
need the efficiency. You just you make a lot of threes,
So take more threes. And that'll open up so many
more things driving lanes for Aunt and Jaden and Mike.
Speaker 3: So I'm with you.
Speaker 2: That's probably my biggest complaint with him or Finch is
just you have this weapon that's really unguardable from deep
you should just lean into it more.
Speaker 3: And I don't think they have so far, and.
Speaker 1: It doesn't aggrevate me. But where a lot of the
talking points have been like, Okay, we get like Cat
in the Post a little bit more underpitched, and I'm
just like, no, Like okay, sure, fine, as like sort
of a safety valve there, but like, let's get the
three point volume up there first. And maybe he's taken
you know, you mentioned if you're only you know, podcasting
twice a month, does that make you the best podcast?
Is he taking the NFL approach where it's like their
product is built around scarcity and so like you can
get shooting a big man because he doesn't take enough
threes counterintuitive. So I want to see him take more
threes and I'm hopeful that he will. I have a
question about Rudy Gobert that has almost nothing to do
with basketball.
Speaker 3: Oh my favorite analysis, Actually.
Speaker 1: What makes him such a polarizing player at this point?
Is it really just I think there are two things
that people would lean on, is well, he gets played
off the court and like it's happened, but there's always
context behind it. Or and this might be actually the
most fair answers, that people are still aggravated with his
approach to the COVID situation when he made light of
it before all of us knew what we were dealing with.
But I just find it like NBA players don't seem
to like him, and just the discourse around him coming
out of the Olympics, this like was just so toxic,
and it's just it's also coming from people too where
it's like you really watch all France's games, like that's
just like you're so I don't under I'm not here
to say that Rudy Gobert is a perfect player. There's
stuff that he has done that has aggravated me. But
like what makes him such a lightning rod?
Speaker 2: That's such a great question, I do think, because again
not to get outside of basketball too much here, but
just society, like COVID was a big thing for anyone
that's alive right now, or like consuming any sort of content,
So for him to kind of be you know, I
still remember that night. I was at like a local
grocery store and all of a sudden the Rudy Gobert
Mike thing, and all of a sudden the league shut down,
And we don't know anything about COVID at the.
Speaker 3: Time, so it's like, did Rugobert cass COVID?
Speaker 2: Uh? That's not a great and again, no one really
knew what was going on at the time, but that's
not a great moment in time for him. But even
if you strip that away, I still think and you know,
we all had a friend growing up who was tall
and ganglier, kind of goofy.
Speaker 3: He's just kind of different. He's just kind of goofy.
Speaker 2: He's a great, great person, like being in the locker
room pregame like, he's just a really great teammate. But
I think a combination of the COVID thing, the fact
that and I mean I complain.
Speaker 3: About this sometimes that he's a.
Speaker 2: Mid thirties, probably future Hall of Famer that still really
doesn't have one single offensive post move or like like
he doesn't you know, Dane Wore is always trying to
get him to kind of do a little bit of
a floater or something. He doesn't really have a go
to move that back to my six seconds on the
shot clock thing, like if he catches the ball, it's
a turnover, right, it was just gonna be a bad shot,
So I think that, and then all the money he's made,
and then just maybe a little bit of like the
international flare, which is weird because I don't think like
Yannis or Jokic or Luca gets any of the hate
that like Rudy gets, so.
Speaker 1: It has no bag.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is just a perfect storm. And then
of course, yeah the France stuff. You know he's getting benched.
I mean, you know, if you're getting benched for Victor
wembin Yama, is that really the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is like, is so he's guilty of
not being what is like a one of one player
at this point, Like in terms of the I just
I don't I never thought I'd be in a position where,
like I feel like the past few years I've needed
to actively defend and that has never a hat I
envisioned wearing.
Speaker 2: And he is the perfect pat Bev falls into this
category as well, where you're like, when he's done on
your team, you're like kind of bleep him, but when
he's on your team, it's like, oh, I'm ready to
I wake up every day ready to go to war
for Pat Bev and Rudy Gobert.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I think he's just a polarizing player.
Like you said, I don't think.
Speaker 2: Again, the NBA, no matter what people say to me,
is still like offense is cool, defenses whatever. Because you know,
when you're in your driveway, you're not working on sheldrill,
You're you're just shooting, right, So for Rudy, defense isn't
as cool. But I can't speak to the three other
defensive Player of the Year awards that he won because again,
to be honest, I wasn't really watching a lot of
Utah Jazz games, but he was the defensive player of
the Year last year, and there were some other great guys.
Anthony Davis is always really elite, but dude, he took
the Minnesota Timberwolves and made them the best defense in
the league. Like, you don't even have to watch the
games to be like, that's a pretty impressive resume booster.
So yeah, and I also think too with the France stuff.
You know, France was not supposed to be in the
Golden Medal Game, and they did it, and a lot
of that credits back to wembin Yama. But when Rudy
did get in, I thought he had big time, you know,
rim protection and rebounds and stuff. But I also think
he's done everything Dan like he his resume. I know
I joke about this a lot, but I mean, you
and I are a couple pods away from making the
Basketball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: Rudy Gobert is going to make the Basketball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: And all he has left, and this is Mike Conley's
motto too, all those guys have left as a title.
I mean, Rudy Gobert has now got a silver medal
as a host country in the Olympics, He's got four
Defensive Player of the Years, He's in all this stuff.
If he gets a title, it's gonna be a lot
of receipt polling in a lot of like, what what
can you say about me now?
Speaker 3: Type stuff?
Speaker 2: So yeah, so I think he's gonna come in this year.
He might have the biggest chip on his shoulder of
anyone on this team. He's boxing now, he's ready that
and that that's what I was going to close is
now he's boxing. So he came off of getting choked
out by Draymond Green in a situation where he was
again he didn't cause that that was Clay and Jade.
They kind of got into a kerfuffle and he kind
of jumped in being a good teammate. So I think,
I he's not the guy I'm looking forward to most
this season. But if he comes in motivated and says,
all I want to do is win, because two years ago,
you know, the wolf pumped is tired and said we're
gonna get him, you know, Doingkeem Elijah on post moves.
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, he can't do that.
Speaker 2: So just play defense, get rebounds, you know, fill in space,
and uh, lead this team to more winning. Because when
they're winning, even the Shacks of the world really can't
say much. It's when they start losing or you know
that Luca three over Rudy in game two or game
one or two, that's when you start to see the jokes.
But if they win, man, there's really nothing you can
say to someone when winning basketball games.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also the remember when dream I think was
Draymond Green made fun of him when he either cried
because he got his first All Star appearance or didn't,
and that was like pre COVID and everything. So, like,
Rudy Gobert has kind of had that lightning rod status
among players and fans like a really long time.
Speaker 2: And you know, for rewinding back to this playoff run,
they were ripping Raymond was still ripping him pretty hard,
and again they have a checkered history of those two
and then the Wolves kind of rallied around him and
said we're not going to send anyone to postgame t
and t stuff, And I think that was if you
cover the Wolves or follow the Wolves closely, the relationships
with the players and Rudy compared to the first year
and to second year. I mean again, Kyle Anderson and
Rudy Gobert punched each other on the court, and then
in year two we're like setting up post game dinner
dates with their significant others in them to like go
hang out. So I think the chemistry with this team
running it back all the continuity has really helped, and
it was kind of amplified in a moment in the
playoffs where it's like you've been talking so much about
our teammate we're not going to come up there and
talk to you. And I think that was a really
cool moment for this team in that locker room.
Speaker 1: Look. As an employee of the parent company of TNT,
I cannot condone that, except that I absolutely condone that,
and it was the right call by the Timberwolves. And
Draymond Green is insufferable when it comes to that stuff.
Moving on here, So I know we talked about this
pre playoffs. You came on the podcast. Jade McDaniels then
proceeded to do like his kind of best Jimmy Butler impression,
where it was, Okay, the regular season is going to
be ghastly from three, but then I'm just going to
come in during the playoffs and shoot the hell out
of the ball. Is there a level of concern either
with that aspect of a game or just if how
is he to get better offensively in this current ecosystem
now where they it's not you know, last year they're
adding Karl Anthony Towns's usage back of the equation and
now it's right you have that. Plus Rob Dillingham is
probably going to play a fairly major role.
Speaker 2: Jade McDaniels, row, I'm probably the most excited right to
watch Rob Dillingham play real NBA games. I'm excited to
see what chip Rudy Gobert has on his shoulder, what
can Carl do? But Jane mcdowal's is probably the most
intriguing because I'm I'm on the Jaden mcdowells island, I'm
the president of the fan club. But he was like
the two hundred and seventieth highest paid player last year.
I mean, he was a late first round pick, but
he was making less than you know, two hundred and
sixty nine other guys in the league, and he was
all defense. So when people criticize him, it's like you're
getting this level of production from a guy who's making
like three million, four million a year. Well, now he's
making six hundred percent of what he's making, right, So
he's never going to rebound super well because most of
the times a good defensive possession for the Wolves is
Jaden forcing a tough shot, and now he's thirty feet
out of the perimeter or whatever Garden kd.
Speaker 3: So he's not going to rebound.
Speaker 2: He's probably never going to be asked to playmake much,
even though I think he has a little bit of
that in his bag and he's probably And Chris Finch
said this last year at media day of like, hey,
do you expect more of a pie for Jaden? And
they're like probably not. Like in the starting lineup of
Mike Aunt, Jayden, Carl and Rudy, he is going to
be the fifth option and you bring Nasreed in and
now he might be.
Speaker 3: The sixth options.
Speaker 2: So it's going to be pretty hard for him to
increase his offensive production. So now you're starting to just
ask him to be more efficient, like hit damn near
every corner three.
Speaker 3: That is fed to you type of stuff. So but
if he's.
Speaker 2: Still averaging eight three and two and they're not winning games,
I think the heat's going to be on him a
little bit because of his pay raise and his kind
of rookie extensions. So but again to the Rudy Gobert thing.
He led them to be the best defense in the
league last year, but they don't do that, and Rudy
doesn't feel as comfortable in that role if he doesn't
have a guy like Jayden on the perimeter, who every
night is, in my opinion, task with the least fun
task you can have of Hey, can you go shut
down Katie on Monday, Luke on Tuesday, maybe guard Yokic
for four possessions on Wednesday. And you might also not
ever get shots. I mean you play pickup like playing
pickup ball, that would suck after a while. You would
just be like, give me the ball, I'm gonna take
a fucking jump shot. And he doesn't do that. So
his role is really important, but it's also probably the
hardest one for me to try to think in my
brain of where else can Jaden stack production.
Speaker 1: Actually that's why I mentioned this before. I would love
to see him in kind of the secondary units with
Rob Dillingham where somebody's to get him the ball with
defenses on tilt and then maybe McDaniels can attack in
those vans. Because I'm with you, I think it's really
the players can say, and he's been paid, and we
could harangut that way, like, oh, he should be fine
with this role. He's been paid, but like to ask
him to be that level of engaged on defense every
single possession, every single night against the guys he's tasked
with going after and then not to be guaranteed anything offensively.
I mean, what was it his usage rate was still
sub fifteen last year, and it was like a pleasant surprise, like, oh,
it didn't get much lower when they had all this stuff,
and now oh dilling Ham's here. It's and even if
it's not, I'm not asking to see him take like
eighty dribbles and create his own shot.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Can they use him in more of a play finishing role,
especially when ant is off the floor.
Speaker 2: And is low key as sneaky, good like cutter and
he gets it. It's just a lot of times like
what do he wanted to do? Have a baseline cut
Rudy and Carl are standing in the paint like that
doesn't really work. So again, I think I'm probably the
most defensive of Jayden another one of my children, because
I just think he's being asked to do the worst thing.
You know.
Speaker 3: Just imagine being.
Speaker 2: Asked to work really hard and never getting fed, Like
you're like, well, I'm kind of getting pissed off and
I'm hungry. So he doesn't really complain much. Yeah, he
punched a wall. He's had some kind of temper things
that have followed him throughout his career. But again, like
when I said, the Wolves don't get to draft Rob
Dillingham if he's six ' six. The Wolves probably don't
get to draft Jade McDaniels at like twenty eighth back
in twenty twenty if he doesn't have an attitude problem
and he's rained that in pretty well.
Speaker 3: So he's a big part of what they do.
Speaker 2: I know, I said, Nas is in the gym every
day at Mayo Clinic Square downtown Minneapolis, working on his game.
Speaker 3: But when he shows up, he when he shows up,
Jayden's already there.
Speaker 2: So Jade McDaniel's one of the many new fathers on
this team, but he is about his locked in as
I think he's ever been. And if he were to
We've talked about so many guys, but if if Jade
and all of a sudden just were to amplify his production,
his efficiency as volume whatever next season, I mean, just
think about the fifth option taking a leap offensively, what
does that do for your whole offense? I mean it
just kind of takes the ceiling again off and just says,
this team, could you know, be a top five offense
in the league next year in a league that has
so many good offenses.
Speaker 1: I meant to ask this in the Rudy go bear section.
But you called your shot on Jade McDaniel's extension last year.
You were like, I can't remember what the exact figure
was that you had, but like you were within ten
million of what he ended up getting. Do you think
we get a Rudy Gobert extension at all? Specifically in
the vein of okay, he declines his player option and
they lower his average annual value from there.
Speaker 3: That's a that's a fascinating question.
Speaker 2: He is eligible now and I was doing we kind
of did this fun exercise the other day on a
podcast where we did you know, expansions coming right? Like
who would you protect six or seven guys on the team?
Speaker 3: Leond Miller won, right, yeah, Miller two three four.
Speaker 2: Like with Rudy, it's like I thought about, maybe you
don't protect him because and again this is a weird conversation,
but you don't protect a guy. He can still come
back to your team, but his contract status is really unique.
I said earlier that all Rudy Gobert has left in
his basketball life is to win a title. He has
done everything else and proven a lot of people wrong
along the way. But Mike Conley is the same. Like
Mike Conley was that dude at Ohio State and its
top five pick or whatever. All he wants to do
is win. Well, Mike Conley a few months ago essentially
took a fifty percent pay cut in the next couple
of years, signed an extension for literally half of what
he was making, and was like, figure out what to
do with that money?
Speaker 3: I just want to win?
Speaker 2: Will Rudy Gobert do the same thing Mike. Mike has
like the greatest approval rating in the league, whereas like
Rudy's the opposite. So maybe he'll want every dollar to
prove that he's worth it. But the Rudy Gobert extension
is probably the biggest kind of leftover thing on the
to do list. They don't have to do it now,
but again next summer they won't. I don't think this
is like hot take or breaking news that I would
be one shocked if in the twenty five to twenty
sixth season. So a year from now they have Nasrid
Contany Towns and Rudy Gobert. You can't afford to pay
all those guys as this second apron becomes multipliers and
all these penalties. So who do they decide to pivot
off of and if Rudy doesn't take a team friendly
deal like his counterpart Mike did, then it'll be a
really interesting conversation of does this team pivot their identity?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I honestly think I almost would predict an extension,
or at least a point where he's gonna decline his
player option and get a longer deal that's worth substantially less,
just because the center market is so fickle right now. Yeah,
unless you're like probably like two or three guys, you're
just not guaranteed any set amount of money. And I
think we kind of, you know you, maybe he would.
There's not gonna be as much task space floting around
next year. It doesn't seem like maybe you luck into
a point where you get kind of like the Isaiah
Heartenstein special, like even that Isaiah Hartenstein got fifteen million
dollars a year less than Rudy Gobert is making now. Basically,
So my guess is, and this is just based off
we saw Jared Allen do this in Cleveland. I kind
of think he's going to extend. Maybe I'll wind up
being and if it's not an extension, I think he'll
be back at you can call it team friendly. It
might also just be market value at that point for
a big in his thirty who is not an offensive star, and.
Speaker 2: He does love it in Minnesota, Like I think it
took a lot for him to leave Utah because he
really loved it in Utah and that's a credit to
that city, in that state and that organization.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't really and you're the same. Like we don't
love talking about guys pockets even when they're making hundreds
of millions of dollars. I know they have other things
going on in expenses, But at what point in your
career anything? This could be basketball, this could be podcasting,
this could be a teacher, Like do you just say
all the other stuff is more meaningful to me than
a couple extra dollars? And to your point about the
center market or just his role or view around the league,
there probably aren't that many spots where he has as
good of a chance to win and is large of
a role. I I mean, he is the captain of
that defense, He's the green dot helmet, right, So how
many other teams in the league next summer can offer
him that and offer him that comfortability. He's got a
kid now too, so like I'm hopeful, I'm with you
that he does take a discount. What does that discount
look like? How does that affect what is a crazy
luxury tax bill? But yeah, man, I mean, you know,
twenty like one million dollars, there's a lot of money
he's making. I think forty three to come down to
twenty five, that's a significant pay cut. So Mike Conley
showed that it's possible and that Tim Conley's really good at.
Speaker 3: Negotiating those things.
Speaker 2: But the Rudy Gobert one is by far in terms
of contracts, in salary capin transaction. He is the next
Domino to eventually fall.
Speaker 1: Whyt to ask you very quickly about some of the
other players in the roster who plays more this season,
Tarren Shannon or Joe Ingles.
Speaker 3: Oh, this one's easy for me, Dane.
Speaker 2: If you're listening, I win, I think it's going to
be Terren Shannon junior and Joe Ingles again talk about
like Olympic stuff. He was dnping for Australia kind of
like Rudy, I don't really care because I think what
a international country program is doing for their international team
is so different than what I mean. Joe Ingles is
coming off a really productive year in Orlando. He was
asked to do a lot because Orlando has so much
talent and is such a fun team up and coming,
but they didn't always have the playmaking or the veterans.
Speaker 1: And they decided to get exactly none of that more
this offseason.
Speaker 2: So yeah, listen, how Tias Jones isn't the starting point
guard for the Orlando Magic is disgusting to me, but
that's probably for another day. Joe Ingles, though, is gonna
come in, And I mean Joe Ingles in Orlando was
kind of like what Mike Conley is in Minnesota, and
now you're bringing him in. Kyle Anderson again, I can't
stress enough as ugly as it was to watch him
shoot or to do things offensively or to turn down
mid ranges. Uh, he played a vital role in just
facilitating and they're gonna need Joe Ingles to facilitate. Also,
what Kyle, What the team loses with Kyle on defense
gaining with Joeingles shooting. I mean, Joeingles can still light
it up from three, so he's another guy that can
space the floor. But I say all of that to
just say maybe it was the desert or the drinks
or whatever. But I got to watch a couple of
Terrence Shannon junior games up close, especially the first Summer
League game, and it's so cliche, but he just has
that dog in him. I mean, he was I think
fourth in college last year in like free throw rate,
just get into the line. He puts his head down
and he loves physicality, and I think pairing that with
an Anthony Edwards is going to be so much fun.
He did turn down a lot of open threes, which
it's like, hey again, if you're out there and you're
playing alongside Ant or Rob or Carl, like, we just
need you to stand there, catch it and shoot it.
Speaker 3: But I think Terrence Shannon junior man. Again I am biased.
I cover the Timberwolves, but I think he might.
Speaker 2: We might look back when we do one of those
redrafts and say, yeah, I know he was an older rookie,
but that was a lottery pick that somehow fell into
the late twenties. He is he is that good and
he again is not nas or Amp, but he he
might be the third most competitive player on the team
and all of that stuff just really makes it really
exciting to watch a team of full of dogs.
Speaker 1: I thought for a lot of last year that Nikila
Alexander Walker had like a fringe all defense case, and
I hope we teams is his role in Jeopardy of
shrinking it all though, because you're bringing in a Rob Dillingham,
Joe Ingles, even Terren Shannon Junior.
Speaker 2: You're the first person to say that, and I think
it'll be something that we all locally start talking about
more as we get ready for training camp in the
preseason as the regular season, because at some point, again
you love when your favorite team has fifteen good players,
but no coach wants to play more than nine, right, Like,
playing a ten man rotation is really hard, especially when
you want to keep guys. You know, you know, it
takes twenty minutes to make a frozen pizza. If you
try to cook it in fifteen, it's not going to
be as good. And some of those guys need those
minute allotments to stay in their rhythm and all that stuff.
So if Rob comes in and gets eighteen to twenty
minutes of backup point guard and Ternshine and Junior's in,
I mean we're we're at nine guys right now, and
you're like, okay, so how does Nikil fit in? Nikil
should have probably not made All Defensive team, but he
should have got the votes. I mean, he was incredible
last year coming off He's another one of those lottery picks,
right Dan that kind of don't really know what happened
those first couple of years. Finally found a place that
he's comfortable and kind of shined. His shot fell apart
and his confidence waivered pretty heavily in that Dallas series.
But man, when you can have Jane McDaniels start on
a guy and then maybe throw Anton him a little bit,
and then sub those two guys out, and now Jamal
Murray's like, okay, I get a break, and then it's
Nikkiel that has to just suck mentally. And that's what
Nikiel was the best at. So, I mean, he hit
almost every big three, it seemed like in the regular season.
I always joke he was shooting one hundred percent on
late shot clock threes and stuff. So his confidence has
probably never been higher. He's probably already priced himself out again.
As I talk about summer twenty five, I would be shocked.
I mean, he's a real true free agent next summer,
I'd be shocked if he re signs, because again, you're
just running out of dollars. So is Jalen Clark the
up and coming kind of fixture to fill that role
down the road maybe, But for this season, Nikiel's going
to be really important because again they don't have a
certified backup point guard yet. And we'll see what Rob
can do. But someone's gonna get squeezed out. It's kind
of my rant, and I think it could be him
at times, despite the fact that what you just said,
he's coming off his best season of his career.
Speaker 1: Anybody else on this roster that you think could kind
of sneak their way into relevance this season, whether it's
a Josh Mino, Luca Garza, or our joint favorite Leonard Miller.
Speaker 2: This sucks if you just if you're young, or if
you like the younger guys, or you know, you want
to see some of these guys get a chance. Two
years ago, when they signed Kyle Anderson, I said it
was the deepest team they've ever had, and then last
year they added a couple of fringe pieces and as
like This is even a deeper team, this upcoming one.
As we just talked about Nikhil Alexander Walker. Could he
have made all defense? Did he have the best year
of his career? And you and I are like, like
he might play less. This is the deepest team in
Wolve's franchise history, and because of that, you're probably still
a year off from a Leonard Miller or a Josh
Mayno or a Jalen Clark getting real minutes. Luca Garza
even was kind of like, I don't know, just a
fan favorite because of all the work he's put him,
but now he's on a real contract, and like credit
to him for not a lot of guys that have
that path to the league make it, and he's made it.
So he's like a real NBA dude. Now he's not
just chilling in des Moyne, Iowa. But I don't think
any of those guys are gonna get real minutes, and
if they do, we're probably talking about an injury or
like things have gone pretty south. But I don't think
that means that you need to completely cut them from
your dynasty team. Like at some point, if they do
unload one of the bigs and let's say it's a
Carl or a Rudi, They're gonna need, like other guys
to step up, and I think that's what Leonard Miller's
role is. So I think what was it fran for
Schill or whatever or someone a couple of years ago
that said, like so and so was two years away
from being two years away. I think Leonard Miller is
like one year away from maybe being one year away.
But they have a lot of guys, right, I mean again,
you're talking about a team that was criticized for the
Rudy go bertrad because they have no pieces, no assets.
And in summer League, every one of those guys, whether
it be Jalen Clark, Leonard Miller, even Josh Minott, they
all had real signs of growth from the previous year
to this year.
Speaker 3: So they might have a loaded Iowa Wolves.
Speaker 2: G League team, But in terms of the big team
and the pro I don't know if any of those
guys are going to see any time because again, like
in my mind, the tenth man on the team, if
you go one of the best starting fives Nazrit six Man, Nikiel,
Rob Dillingham, Terrencehennon Junior. I mean Joe Ingles is like
the tenth man in this rotation, and he's just well
more proven and trustworthy for a coaching staff than a
Leonard Miller. So hold the stock, Dan, and we'll talk
about it maybe next summer, but for now, I don't
see any of those guys having any sort of impact.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the lightning round such a
cutter portion of the podcast, let's do it so just
as a refresher, it sounds like full strength. Their ten
man rotation will consist of you think it's these ten
guys in some order, So it's the starters, Mike Conley, Edwards,
Jane McDaniel's, Cat Englebert. Then you have nas Reed, naw Ingles,
Rob Dillingham, and Karren Shannon Junior. And you think those
will be their their go to ten?
Speaker 3: I do, yeah.
Speaker 1: Is there any what is there gonna be any fangling
with their crunch time unit, do you think? Or is
it just gonna wind up being most of the time
the starters this year?
Speaker 3: Oh that's that's a great question.
Speaker 2: It's kind of loaded because Finch does seem to always
like closing with who brought like the starters. But I
also wonder now with success and team success. And I
know I've talked about expectations, but maybe some monkeys off
the back simultaneous at the same time, if everyone in
that locker room will just trust I mean, they all
love Finch like a father, but will they just trust
Finch to close? Because if you I hate the idea
of closing with my starting five because I think you
remove a dynamic element of maybe that's not what you
need in this game against that opponent. So I would
hope that they lean more into kind of a dynamic
closing lineup where you know, maybe you can close with
like Nas at the three and Jaden at the four
and Call at the five or something like that.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Just the more options a good coaching staff has, the better.
I mean, that sounds so stupid, but that just seems
pretty basic to me. Of you know, opposing team knows
that there's gonna be different ways that they get defended
in the last three four minutes of a game.
Speaker 3: So I hope. I love Chris Finch.
Speaker 2: I'm a pro Chris Finch guy, but there are little
things that I want I would like for him to improve,
and one of those would be mixing up who he
closes with, to kind of better not to react to
your opponent, but to kind of give them different looks
of You can't just expect that Mike Conley is going
to be out there every fourth quarter or three minutes
left in the game.
Speaker 1: Is there a weird, funky, offbeat lineup you're hoping to
see them try out next season?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like the potential future twenty twenty six Wolves
of like Rob and Jaden, Terren Channon Junior and Nas.
I don't know if that team will get a re bound.
I also don't know if they'll be able to protect
the rim, but just they that's peer athleticism, peer shot making.
I just be a fun line up again, like they
were kind of a slow, methodical team last year, and
all the numbers like pace and offensive you know, all
those things kind of prove that I would love to
see a team that has the closest thing to like
an Adrian Peterson running back and Anthony Edwards just have
other guys around him that, once they do get a stop,
can just get out and punish you in transition.
Speaker 1: I think I'm at the point where I want to
see Rob Dillingham plus four bigs like Let's throw the
three bigs out there with Leonard Miller and let's just
see what it looks like. I mean, because they in
the past and then you put Dillingham in there, and
then it's okay, we could go with Aunt. Might make
some sense if you want to go with Jayden or
Saron Hradu was like, no, let's throw Leonard Miller in
at the two or Nass or two. Leonter Miller's your three.
I just want to see what it looks like. I
don't care if it's bad. Just give me, like I
don't know, ten to fifteen possessions of it. That's all
I need to say.
Speaker 2: Like that's like the All Star Game stuff when like
Shack and for their centers played like give me Leonard
Miller at the one, Luca Gar's at the two, Carl
Naz and Rudy and just here, just give me like
four minutes against like the Pistons and just see what happens.
Speaker 1: Right. If you're up big, like, just try it. If
you're down big, just try it. As we record this
on September the thirteenth, they're over under a set at
fifty two and a half. Are you taking me over
or the under on that.
Speaker 2: I just want to stress quickly if you're not a
Timberlolves fan listening to this, that's fucking crazy, Like that
is such a large number for a team that has
pretty much as long as I've been in existence, been
a laughingstock. Fifty three and let me what's the math
on that? Like that's a pretty green twenty seven, that's
pretty steep. I don't I'm probably I've always been an
over guy, even when it's just lost me tons of money.
Speaker 3: I think I might go slightly under.
Speaker 2: And it's more of a credit to the rest of
the West. And again, this team last year had to
finally prove people wrong and shut people up and win
a bunch of games. I think, and maybe this is
already being told to us by bringing in two rookies
that you're going to rely on that maybe they're not
as hyper focused on do they have to? Mean, they
didn't have home court advantage against the Nuggets, right, and
that forced them to go on the road in Game seven,
and they did it. So maybe they're like, hey, we're
kind of like, we're not the Celtics, but we're a
contender now where every every additional win doesn't matter as
much in February as it does developing and getting our
shit right for April and May and possibly June. So
I'm going to end up saying under even if it's
like fifty two or fifty one, just because the West
is going to be so loaded, and I wonder if
the Wolves now have graduated to a level dan where
they can sit Mike and Rudy on a night and
just lean into Maybe that night's more about player development
and getting guys more reps, and they don't care about
wins as much. Chris Finch is so competitive. I don't
know how much he'll do that, but I think the
Wolves have graduated now that not every wind matters. It's
more about what you do in the post season than
what you do in the first eighty two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna be when we eventually do these myself
and my co hosts, my concern with them is gonna
be how invested are they in the regular season, Because
if you want to develop Rob Dillingham and even Terren
Sheddon Junior, I imagine it will come at the expense
of wins. But then it's like, if this team is
really about it, I would hit the over just because
I think that they're that good, So it's an interesting
number for them. When you look at the West. You
mentioned how deep it is, is there like one or
two teams that you look at right now, it's like, oh,
those are the most interesting, fascinating or difficult matchups for Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Again, I can't. I'm not smart enough to cover the
whole league like you. So that's why I tune into
your stuff because you kind of see it all. I
still don't understand how Okac was so good, and I'm
probably deemed maybe as a hater, but I love what
they're doing. I mean, how do you not love a
team that has a bunch of young guys that are
successful and to have all this draft capital, but like
to add a Caruso and a Hertenstein to what that
team needed. I mean that's kind of like in the
Tim Conley aura of we were lacking this so we
just and got it. So, okay, C is gonna be,
in my mind, just the favorite to at least be
the one seed.
Speaker 3: Playoff.
Speaker 2: Basketball, as we've learned now is so much different. But
they're gonna be so good and on the flip side,
and maybe I'm a hater again, but it's hard for
me to look at Denver compared to Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Denver has the best player in the world. They won
a title.
Speaker 2: I would cut off my arms to be one of
those fans of a team that's won a title, but
like their bench, like their six.
Speaker 3: Man is like Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 2: So while okay see, and maybe like you know, Dallas,
I think had a nice little offseason and stuff too,
there are some other teams that are still in that
contender sphere that I don't know, like the Lakers stuff again,
what did they do?
Speaker 3: What did Denver really do?
Speaker 2: So I think it's okay see, and a tier of themselves.
And then to me, it's like Minnesota is right there
with like a Dallas and kind of that slightly tier too.
And we say this every year for as long as
you and I have been covering the league, Like the
West just continues to get better and it kind of sucks,
Like I know, Paul George goes East, but for every
Paul George goes East, it seems like three stars or
three really good players come West. So it's gonna be bloodshed.
And now this team has finally gotten, you know, to
a level where maybe they don't need to always fight
the toughest.
Speaker 3: Battle in December and January.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of again, why maybe it's like fifty
one and twenty nine or twenty eight or something.
Speaker 1: I know, I wish I had like a diverging opinion
from what you said, but it's like kind of just
the classic teams or it's like, yeah, like Memphis is good,
Phoenix should be better. But like I look at Denver, oh, okay, see,
probably I'm for sure at the top, and then it's
like Denver and Dallas too. The one team I will say,
and I'm not too high on them based off the
way they're set up are but in this specific matchup,
if everyone's healthy, I don't know what's going on with
New Orleans is rotation in the front line right now,
but if like Zion is just gonna be your big
they are fascinating matchup against. I'm not saying a bad matchup,
but they become a fascinating matchup against a team like
the Timberwolves.
Speaker 2: Well, now that I'm thinking more about the West, and
this isn't to bleep on the East, but there are
nights in the Eastern Conference where you just get a
free night, Like again, until the Pistons can clear themselves out. Yeah, brokely,
you just get and sometimes and the Wolves have shown
this more than anyone. A free night or an easy
night is not the best thing for their psyche because
then they're all of a sudden down twelve in the
third quarter. But in the West, like who you know
who is predicted to be the worst team in the West,
Like maybe not San Antonio, but like do they have
Wemby and like they added Chris Paul or like the
Kings even who I never know what to figure out
what the Kings? Like they had Derozen the Suns, who
the Wolves showed despite what everyone thought after Game eighty two, Uh,
the Wolves were just a better team than the Suns.
Where they go out and get in my mind, the
single most valuable transaction in the offseason and Tias Jones
for the minimum and like he addresses, I mean, Tias
Jones is a winning basketball player cliche or not. So
there's really no easy game in the West, and I
think that's again what just is going to make this
all really complicated and every night's going to be a fight.
But yeah, man, there's a lot of teams that if
they goes right. I mean, we sleep on Memphis a
lot because you know, job was kind of not there
last year. But there's probably a handful of teams that
you could tell me in April, like, hey, that team
is actually the one seed right now by three games,
and the Pelicans would be one that. Yeah, if they
figure out their rotation, Zion is what Zion can be.
It's gonna be awesome. Every night's gonna matter, and that's
gonna be awesome from a fan perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two teams that don't seem interested in winning,
and even Portland might be accidentally not shitty.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's a good one, just.
Speaker 1: Because of like they're gonna be bad, but they just
have some really good players and to the point, you
don't understand what they're doing at the moment. Kyle, you
have given me more than ninety minutes. Is there anything
else that we haven't discussed, I haven't asked you about
that you would like to touch upon before I let uskadaddle.
Speaker 2: Uh No, I mean I kind of highlighted this at
the top, but ninety minutes of pretty pro Timberwolves propaganda
and none of it might matter if this arbitration hearing
in November between Glenn Taylor and then Mark Laurie and
Alex Rodriguez if that goes south, because again I have
my side and I have my belief in how this
will play out. But if it doesn't go in a
good way, you're looking at a team that you know,
twelve months from now might have a new place in
the basketball operations, might have a new or same owner.
And how does that affect everything that trickles down. I
always try to stress this anytime on a pod, but
this is basketball. This isn't kind of an escape for us,
a distraction on stuff. But basketball organizations are run kind
of like normal organizations, right, So the Timberwolves are still
kind of like Google or Apple, like, they still have
a lot of power, dynamics and drama and hierarchy. And
if the top of the food chain is messy or
gray or not clear or well run, it does affect
every other level below it.
Speaker 3: So I'm bullish on this team.
Speaker 2: I think they can win fifty games, and I think
they're a real six or seventeen contender to win a title,
which is crazy to say, but it can all be
pulled out from under them with like the lucy football
thing if if the ownership thing goes in a bad way.
So it'll be a fascinating start to the season because
it's all gonna be about basketball, But as we start
to cook that turkey in November, it's gonna be like, okay,
so who was actually signing all these checks?
Speaker 1: And look, honestly, the stakes this season are higher or
more rickety than they were last season because you have
Rudy Gobert, nas and Naw entering free agency next summer
on top, so like everyone could have come back. It
wasn't a matter of oh, we have to repay like
Kyle Anderson, of course, like that's a loss. But the
fact that you have three of your i mean top
seven guys from last year are going to be entering
free agency, on top of oh, this is now the
first year we've gone into the second apron, on top
of okay, what is going on at the top? On
top of all right, it does Tim Connelly want to
stick around? The stakes are higher this season. They're also
they're trying to make a harder leap, which is just
they went from good to contender last year. Now it's like,
can we go to contender to capslock contender basically, and
so I hope I don't want to say I hope
it doesn't get talked about because you want the focus
to be on basketball, but like you do kind of
have to keep one and a half eyes on what
is going to happen after this coming season.
Speaker 2: And again that comes back to expectations. Right, if things
are going well, I don't think anyone's going to really
care who wins the legal dispute to this team. But
if things don't go well, I mean again, the day
that it was announced that Glenn Taylor was pulling the
team off, you know, not for sale anymore and taking
the sign out of the yard was the day that
they went and played the Nuggets. Like every time Glenn
kind of steps into it, it's like a really big
time for the team. And credit to Tim Conley and
Chris Finch, but they've done a pretty good job of
kind of being like that meme of the shield protecting
you know, the little guy sleeping, So okay, if as
long as as long as they're around, they're kind of
the meat shield for any of the drama.
Speaker 3: It's a really good locker room.
Speaker 2: It's a really tight knit group, but you know, all
it takes is for the thing at the top of
the food chain to kind of be disrupted and then
it's all going to trickle down. So it sucks to
say that because this is the team is finally good.
But that's also just if you're a Timberwolves fan. That's
just kind of the experience, right. Like I don't know
if I've said this too before, but in Ricky Bobby,
when they're at Applebee's having dinner and the dad's just
like everything's going too well.
Speaker 3: I got to cause some chaos.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the Timberwolf things are going really well,
Someone's like, we got to kind of disrupt the apple
cart a little bit. So, uh yeah, there's never an
easy day or a sleep an easy sleep when you're
a Timberwolves fan.
Speaker 3: But this is about as good as it's ever been
since I've been around. Kyle.
Speaker 1: Are you able to just tell our listeners watchers where
they can find you in all the great, great work
that you do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at Kyle Tige on Twitter. I host co host
Flagrant Holes over at Score North.
Speaker 2: With Phil Mackie, and then I'm working for Dane Moore
again this year, doing a lot of daye More NBA podcasts.
Speaker 3: That show continues to grow too, so a lot of.
Speaker 2: Timberwolves content, a lot of podcasts, and it's just been
great again.
Speaker 3: People that support us, you and I know this. This
is like the coolest job in the world.
Speaker 2: So shout out to everyone that supports my stuff and
supports dan stuff, because without you, I don't think we'd
be doing this. So it's an exciting time. I'm really
ramped up again for basketball. Got a new TV DAN,
so bring on training camp, bring on media Day, and
not bring on the preseason.
Speaker 1: You can all find links to everything that Kyle does
in our podcast and YouTube description, so go support him
and those podcasts specifically. I love the Day More NBA show. Kyle.
Thank you so much for all of your time, very
generous as usual, and as you know by now, I
will be pestering you again in the future.
Speaker 3: Thank you, sir,