Speaker 1: And welcome. Hello everybody, Welcome to the Big Podcast. It
is Tuesday. Today is the tenth day of February, year
of our Lord, twenty twenty six. My name is Tom Sullivan.
And well, we had a perfectly good podcast ready to go,
and so all of a sudden, it was about one
o'clock in the afternoon on the East coast and we
got word that the FBI had released some video in
some photographs from the front porch of Nancy Guthrie from
that camera that we all have seen. The camera wasn't there.
Somebody destroyed it, took it? Did? They certainly removed it.
But apparently the FBI has been working with Google behind
the scenes. And it goes to what you and I
know what. We just go about our lives. The electronic
devices and gadgets that we have in our homes and
our cars are places of work. They are keeping track.
They're listening, you know, all of the devices that are
whether it's a Siri or Alexa, wherever it might be,
they hear and they're listening all the time to be
able to hear it. Well, the same thing with cameras. Apparently,
even though Nancy Guthrie had a Nest video camera on
her front door. But she did not. She let the
subscription go and the camera was destroyed, so you think, okay,
there's nothing there. I was puzzled by the fact that
the sheriff, who, by the way, is just getting a
lot of grief, but he was seemed confused about a
lot of things. His facts were not have been wrong
many many times through this whole episode over the last week,
but he talked about the camera like, well, it was destroyed,
so I guess we can't get anything from it. I'm
going no, it goes to a cloud, it's not in it.
I was wondering, does he think that the camera has
film in it like an old Kodak camera. So it
was hard because it wasn't a subscription, but the camera
still was recording whatever was in front of the camera,
and it goes into a cash file see a cche
cash And so the people at Google who make Nest
cameras have been working. I don't know how many people
they put on it and how long it took, but
it was they had to go through and the millions
of hours of camera footage to find what they found,
and they found the perp walking up onto the front
porch of Nancy Guthrie's home and going about the process
of trying to destroy the camera. Now they have told
us that there are more cameras inside. And then a
couple of days ago for the I don't know umpteenth time,
the FBI shows up. They and they're back on the
property again. They go up on the roof and they
find a camera. I don't know what the camera was
taking photos of sunrises and sunsets or something. I'm maybe
it was showing everybody coming and going. So there's a
lot more that we don't know. But here's the post
on X from Cash Patail, the FBI director. It says
new images in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Over the
last eight days, the FBI and p Mac County Sheriff's
Department have been working closely with our private sector partners
to continue to recover any images or video footage from
Nancy Guthrie's home that may have been lost, corrupted, or
inaccessible due to a variety of factors, including the removal
of recording devices. The video was recovered from residual data
located in back end systems. In other words, they recorded
it and it's somewhere in a pile of good God
only knows how many millions of hours of video they
had to go through. But when they went through it,
they found the perp walking onto the front porch of
Nancy Guthrie. Now he's got a ski mask on, so
all you can see is his eyes in his mouth.
But he's got just like just like Luigi Maggioni. He's
got a backpack that is identifiable. He's got a pair
of gloves on. He's got a gun, which is really weird.
He's got a pistol that doesn't fit the holster, but
he's got a holster hanging off his belt right right
in front of the fly who puts a gun there?
I mean, you don't want that gun to actually discharge,
because if so, I mean it's right there and is
right in the front of his pants and the gun
doesn't fit the holster, and so you go, well, this
guy isn't some professional in any case, he goes on cash.
Betel says, working with our partners, as of this morning,
law enforcement has uncovered these previously inaccessible new images showing
an armed individual appearing to have tampered with the camera
at Nancy Guthrie's front door the morning of her disappearance.
An he won with information, Please contact one eight hundred
call FBI. So there's I mean, they've got still photos
they released, they've got videos that they're released, and when
you look at it, you go, I don't. I mean,
it's like like Luigi. We saw the photos of him
and his eyebrows and his eyes, but he had the
mask over his face, he had the hoodie up. So
when we actually got to see what he looked like,
I thought, oh, well, yeah, I guess that's him. But
the key here is that you and I may not
know who this person is, but if this is somebody's husband,
if this is somebody's brother, if this is somebody's father,
you know they're going to know, Hey, that looks like
my husband, my father, my brother, whatever. Somebody is going
to know who this is. And they're asking for people
to call in. And I as I sit here and
record this this afternoon, I'm thinking that since we're not live,
I've I'm thinking this will this case is not only
busted wide open, but I think they'll they'll pick up
this person probably within twenty four hours, maybe sooner. There's
just way too much information. The shoes that he is wearing,
the backpack is unique, the coat he is wearing is unique.
The ski mask is kind of an old school ski mask.
You don't see those anymore. So with that, I I'm
fussed about, well what do I do? So there's every
law enforcement person out there asked being asked to chime
in on what they think this is all? Who is is?
How did this work? Is a person and I'll play
these for you. I'll play a handful of them for you.
They're all skilled law enforcement people. They come to different conclusions.
Some people think that this was just a house burglary
that went bad. Well maybe, but I'm going so if
you are burgling a place and the homeowner wakes up,
you run, you don't take the person with you. So
then they also disagree on whether this was targeted or not,
and I'm going, I don't know. I don't know. Meantime,
as we're recording this, we're finding out that law enforcement
has now all of a sudden shown up once again
at any Guthrie's house in the We know about the
fact that there was reporting earlier that her husband, Tomaso,
is a suspect. They're not saying that anymore they said.
In fact, they denied that. But when you look at
this video, you know Tomaso has a big beard and mustache.
In this ski mask, you can clearly see that the
purp has a mustache. Does he have other facial hairs?
Can't tell. But does it look like Tomaso's eyes? I
don't think so. But well, let's start off John Sheen farmer,
swat officer. Let's see what he has to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just the angle we're looking at.
I don't think that the backpack disappears by any means
or anything. I believe that, like Bill had said earlier,
that this is probably somebody local. The backpack and the
other the ski mask, everything was procured locally. I'll go
back to my earlier statement and that nothing that this
suspect is doing is deliberate. He meanders up to that
porch area, kind of wanders up towards the door, and
then commits to going and trying to disable the camera.
When you mentioned earlier about his left hand going over
the gun. Two possibilities there are, of course, if she's
looking on the camera, he doesn't want her to see
the gun, and the other possibility is he's putting enough
force or inertia behind trying to disable that camera that
that holster looks to be kind of in a tenuous
position on the front of him, and he's probably trying
to keep it from wiggling or falling off or the weapon,
which is an inappropriate weapon to be putting in that
holster anyway from that falling out and possibly discharging. So
lot going on there in that little bit of video
footage that we have. But we go then to where
we have the flash of light coming from his mouth.
Most likely that's going to be some sort of an
ir shadow in my opinion. The only other explanation could
be he was palming some sort of a small flashlight
in one hand and when he went to disable the
camera with the right hand, he had the other hand
trying to study the gun. He may have briefly put
a very small flashlight in his mouth as he was
trying to disable the camera. That's that's an entire that's
entirely a possibility as well. But nothing here speaks to
someone who is professional at doing this, someone who is
well versed, like we've seen, you know, crossborder kidnappings with
with with cartel or that type of identity. It doesn't
speak to that, It speaks to somebody local. Uh So
you know with that it's you're seeing his as you're
watching this video right now, you're watching him walk up
the walk. Someone knows that gait. Someone knows that person
and how they walk and how they move those body movements.
Somebody recognizes those eyes. Those are very distinct, rather large eyes.
And then the finally manicured eyebrows, possibly mustache mustaches can
be shaved off, you know, to conceal an identity. It's
going to be hard to change out those eyebrows. I think,
you know, everything speaks to This is such a positive
step forward in this investigation, and it may rock this
suspect back on their heels far enough that they're forced
to just give up what's going on and release Nancy
back to the Guthrie family. I don't believe it's random,
not for a minute. This is somebody that is related
to somebody that does work or services for Nancy Guthrie,
that has some sort of a contact with Nancy where
they would know who Nancy's daughter is, and that this
wasn't just a you know, a random crime of opportunity.
This was planned to some extent, whether it was a
person that was actually working as a home healthcare worker, landscaper,
pool person, you know, house cleaner, whatever, or maybe someone
that wasn't that capacity that maybe just had loose lips
and communicated to this individual or these individuals, Hey guess
whose house I'm cleaning or guess whose pool I'm cleaning.
And this is the mom of the lady on the
Today Show. So everything speaks to it was targeted, But
nothing I'm seeing here in this video speaks to this
being a very professional, efficient kidnapping. It's not going to
be the gun because we don't have a close enough
image of the gun, and I don't know can even
enhance it that well. I would look, and I would
look backpack. Not every backpack is going to have reflective
material on the shoulders like that in very distinct places.
I think that they're able to freeze and enhance those
images of the backpack. The FBI is extremely good at this.
They've been good at this for close to you know,
ninety years. Being able to do it could very possibly. Yeah,
And I'm sure the FBI is all over that and
they're tracing down every local store that would sell that
style of backpack and who purchased those backpacks. Another thing
to keep in mind too is if this is a
relative of somebody that's doing work for Nancy Guthrie, they
are well on the way to connect collecting DNA samples
of everyone associated with Nancy who would have had access
to the residents or access to Nancy, or who may
you know, be in a position to give information regarding
this as well. So these are all very positive size everything. Oh,
this is a huge break. I think he may be
trying to do something else with his other hand, and
maybe he just wasn't confident in his ability to breach
the door and cover the camera and he needed something
else to do it, maybe while he threw his shoulder
into the door. Obviously, this doesn't speak to being very
well planned out. The fact that he went back to
grab plant material like this was cased very efficiently ahead
of time, because there was this last minute attempt to
go grab some plant material and cover that lens. It's
again all this speaks to a very amateurish attempt. We
only have a small clip of what we do have,
and it's very possible the FBI is still gleaning more
information off of the data that they've perceived. Hopefully they're
able to give us more, or if they can't give
it to us, at least they're able to utilize it
in order to take this farther.
Speaker 1: So, since you don't have the video in front of
you off, I don't know if this is a solo abduction.
I can't imagine that one person would abduct Nancy Guthrie.
I mean, and the bleeding that was out there, so
there was obviously this person does have a pensiant for violence.
But you don't see anybody else in the video and
the course with that home, you look out into the
driveway and they've enhanced the night vision of this camera
best they can, but you don't see a car. You
see nothing but what you do see. And they were
talking about it. There's a bright light that kind of
comes from his mouth in one part of the video,
which some people think is just the way that the
reflection of the camera. Others think because this guy said
was maybe a small pocket flashlight he put in his
mouth while he was working to disable the can. He's
got these big gloves on and you can't work on
unscrewing the camera with big gloves on. But the whole
thing's weird. And he's got reflective some sort of reflective
material on the two straps of his backpack, very clearly reflective.
So there are things that they can do to look
at all of this, But there's behavior that in one
case you think it's a professional hit, in the other
case you think it's just an amateur. He went over
to the camera, kind of pushed his bounced his glove
off of the camera, like he's trying to knock the
camera off of it's holding. But then he turns around,
he goes back out to the front of the porch
and picks up some plant material from the garden and
like he was trying to cover the camera with this.
So he looks very amateur in that regard. So that
was John Chiann, former a swat team man. Yeah, so
was it sold? There's only one person in the video.
Was another person hiding waiting in the car out in
the driveway that we can't see. We know the person
has a mustache. There's a debate about whether this was
targeted or whether it was random, or was it professional
or not professional. The backpack apparently people have are identifying
it as a motorcycle backpack. The FBI talked to the
Guthrie family and asked them, does anybody recognize this person?
And all three of them, independently, individually by themselves, said no.
So this is breaking news this afternoon. The White House
is even chiming in on all of this today, the
White House sending out a note basically asking everybody to
pay attention to the video and to send their prayers.
And it's it's getting a lot of good attention. So
let's listen to this expert. Morgan Wright is his name.
He is a cyber security expert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've gone from zero to one hundred, you know,
in about a second. So this would have won, you know,
any most drag race out there. So and it's good.
The other thing though, too, it's good because it gets
the public back engaged again into this and it raises
the awareness right as you know, two in the news cycle.
Once you get to a point where you're repeating the
same thing, people lose interest. But now that we've got
something new, they can now focus their attention. And the
other thing too is there may be people that weren't
following this or may have dropped off that now with
this new piece of information, will be able to make
a link between oh I saw this, and I get this,
and I remember seeing this guy or somebody who looks
like this guy. Will there be a lot of sightings
that may not be totally accurate. Yes, but as a detective,
I would take some sidings and not so good sightings
over no sightings and no tips and no leads. So
this is good. This should I I think you would
see also a huge influx of tips. And that's the
other reason the FBI is so geared up for this,
with their crisis response team and their rapid response teams,
their ability to bring in the infrastructure. This is not
just an investigation. This is an infrastructure problem. It's like
the military. It's about logistics. So they're bringing in the
infrastructure to be able to handle this flood of information.
Because when this information comes in, first thing you got
to do is you've got to get on it right away.
Leads have time value, So the faster that we can
get into it right now if we know it, guess what,
the person who did this knows this too, so they
may be taking actions to cover their tracks, to get
rid of evidence, to do things and so That's the
other reason why time is so critical in this is
that if we know it, chances are he knows it
or one of his partners knows it, and they're going
to be taking steps to mitigate their risks. So and
this is huge. And the other thing they'll be doing too,
Like I said, I know we've said this, but it's
all of the other data, the forensic analysis of the
shoes and the pants and the shirt and the backpack
and the sche mask and looking for who made all
of those things. We're going to They may not release
that to the public, but we're they're going to be
getting down to a better idea from a profile standpoint,
who this person is, where those things might likely originate from.
That backpack maybe so unique. The only place you can
buy it is at a store in Texas.
Speaker 2: Let's say.
Speaker 3: That really narrows it down. So we're waiting to hear
some of that very well. They won't release it to
us right now, but as they get it, they might say, hey,
look now we have investigative interest in a place in Albuquerque,
you know, or someplace in Phoenix as opposed to Tucson.
So this is going to be a huge help to
not only generating interest, but putting it on target.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: We now we can precisely target the areas that we
have an interest in.
Speaker 1: So, speaking of the areas, apparently the sheriff has all
of a sudden showed up back in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood.
They also showed up by Annie Guthrie's house, which is
four or five miles away, and they are going back around.
There's quite a few deputies that are going back around
to the neighbors and knocking on their doors and asking
more questions. And so there's a big canvasscene going on
again in both the neighborhood of Nancy Guthrie and also
the daughter Andy Guthrie. Andy McKay, former deputy director of
the FBI, I know, but he does have many years
of law enforcement experience in the FBI. Let's listen to
what he thinks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a remarkable series of images. The still images
are much better than I expected. There's a lot of
detail in the images of the clothing and the gloves
and all this stuff that by themselves would not mean much,
but when you put them all together might very well
inspire someone who actually knows this person to say, hey,
I know who that is. But then when you get
a look at the video, it's like a whole different dimension.
This is not, in my opinion, this is not someone
first of all, who has ever trained to a gun. No,
no person with law enforcement or military training would ever
carry a firearm in a holster like that right where
that is at this almost the center of his body
hanging off of his belt there. It's like not very
tactically sound for a lot of reasons. His approach to
the house, it's not particularly furtive or concerned. He just
kind of walks up with his house with his head
bent towards the ground, obviously to avoid being seen. You
then see him use his hand like he is in
that video right there to kind of cup over the
lens of the camera to keep it from getting the
close up of his of his face, which we all
which we get eventually anyway. So it's it so even
here where he turns around, he's looking for something on
the floor that he can use. He doesn't seem to
be in a rush. He never looks out towards the street,
He doesn't seem to be concerned that anyone sees him
or what he's doing. It's really remarkable. It's kind of
not what you think about when you think about an
executed kidnapping. You know, usually it's more than one person
that's engaged in trying to take someone out of a residence.
Here you have, you know, this image. Anyway, it's just
one person. Maybe there are others, we don't know, but yeah,
it's just very odd. This person does not look like
they're you know, they're not moving with a purpose, as
we say in law enforcement.
Speaker 1: And speaking of former Deputy directors of the FBI, Dan
Bongino ways in on this breaking news today.
Speaker 5: Well, they weren't brought in right away the FBI. And
there are basically two mechanisms to bring the FBI into
an investigation. The first is fairly obvious, as federal jurisdiction.
It's a federal crime. They come in and I don't
want to say take over. Nobody really takes over. It
always work with little departments, but you get the point.
The second is by request. The request from what I'm
here came in a couple of days, but it appears
to be now a couple of days too late. This footage.
It takes a great amount of expertise to get this footage,
being that Nest Video wasn't a subscription account. So my
guess on this is that there had to be legal
process served because a lot of these companies are not
going to give you this stuff without judicial process or
legal process excuse me, to protect themselves later. So that
takes time getting search warrants and things like that. And
also the material, given that it wasn't an updated subscription account,
that next camera was likely cashed, so it probably took
a little bit to get Even with the rush, they
will work with you, these companies once they get processed
to protect themselves legally, they will work with you. We've
done it before on a number of high profile cases. However,
they can't make miracles happen. It still takes time to
go and process that stuff. So I wish they'd been
called in sooner, but you know, listen, I don't want
a Monday morning quarterback these things. They may have thought
it was a missing person's case. That I mean originally,
if you remember, that's kind of how it appeared to
have been handled. So you know, it's easy in hindsight
to say that, and I don't want to do that.
But if they were called in soon, we likely would
have had these images a much quicker. Oh, I see
a lot of things there. Seems to be at some point,
you know, familiarity with the area. If you notice when
he walks up, he has his head down, maybe he
thinks there's some surveillance camera outside he's missing. But then
he seems if you look, he seems surprised. I see
it playing right now. He seems like he's going to
knock on the door and then seems surprised by the
presence of that doorbell camera right there. And then instead
of having a simple item like a piece of tape,
he goes out and grabs it in kind of amateurish manner,
you know, some plant that he tries to cover it with.
It just seems quite odd. And another thing that sticks
out to me is, you know, having been not just
in law enforcement, being a gun carrier my whole life,
that's a very unusual way to carry a firearm. I
mean they have inside the waistband holsters. Now this I
don't know what type of firearm it is. I can't
see from the picture I'm watching it right here. Maybe
it's a revolver, I don't know, but that's an unusually
large hall should be carried in that manner. There's a
couple other things jump out of me. You know, the
FBI has a divert team, a digital video enhancement team.
They're probably I would guess, I know if I was
working the case right now, and I'm sure cash is
right now. I'm sure they're working on this to pick
apart everything. I would guess from looking at him in
context of probably the archway. He's probably five nine to
five eleven or so, so they can get height. There's
also features of the face that, although obscured by the
ski mask, you can still use some of the tools
to get something useful out of it. And another thing
is is this an insider or a local? Those aren't necessary.
They could be the same thing, but they don't necessarily
mean they're the same person. In other words, an insider
is it you know, a gardener? Is it someone who
was an electrician in the house. We've seen cases like
this before where they're working inside the house, they realize
someone has money and they leave a window open and
then income in and sneak through the window. Did that
happen here or was it a local? Now they could
be both. But however, a local was it someone in
the neighborhood. Was it someone's kid in the neighborhood, or
someone who is you know, maybe got a drug problem,
who's staying with a parrot, or someone in or around
the area that knows the area, knows it's dark. Those
are the questions that are going to come up. And
the reason I asked that is I had read a
report about them taking DNA buckle samples, DNA samples from
people who had been in and around the house. Now
that's going to be critical to link up with our
CODA system, the DNA system. If they get a hit
on that, you wouldn't be in there unless you had
some reason to be in there. You smab was taken
pursuing to a crime or some other reason. But it's
better than nothing. It's a good start. And one final
thing is the ransom related You notice yesterday from that
really horrifying video Samana Guthrie had to post. She doesn't
has been said many times on their address the kidnappers anymore.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 5: I had mentioned three possible scenarios last night, being is
it a kidnapping for ransom? Which is the story. You know,
everyone thought was possibly going to happen there. And then
the second story was this a crime or burilary, They
just went wrong and maybe he didn't expect anyone to
be home. She opens the door, some incident happens, she bleeds.
You know, it's looking more likely that it may be
scenario too.
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 5: I don't want to get out ahead and the investigation
ahead of the investigation at this point, but this looks
like it.
Speaker 1: Could be that one, which surprises me because I'm thinking,
if you were breaking in and somebody you surprise somebody
and they showed up, why would you take them with you?
Why would you take an eighty four year old woman
with you just run? I don't know, but Bongino thinks
it might be just a burglary gone bad.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, in cases like this, especially given the
area and the ability to dramatically expand your field of
vision on surveillance. In other words, things we didn't have
when I, you know, when I left the Secret Service,
they were I shouldn't say they have, but they One
is pervasive, the use of really really high end drone technology.
Drones were in their infancy back then. Now that I
went back into law, enforcement that as the deputy over
there at the Bureau. Not only do we have really
incredibly high tech drones now, but the camera technology, flear
infrared thermal. If you know, if it's a body dead
as you're going to have obviously the thermal be an issue.
But with the ability to surveil over large areas, yeah,
with a woman that age who's not very ambulatory or mobile, yeah,
it does create a lot of questions that we haven't
found body yet. It's really not that easy. Given the
the ubiquitous nature of ring cameras, surveillance cameras, street cameras, LPRs,
license play readers, and everything else. It's not that easy, thankfully,
to take someone against their will and just disappear and
leave no digital trace. I heard it referred to by
an excellent commentator, James Kellyanner. He said, did exhaust. That's
an accurate way to put it, you know, said the tailpipe,
out of that digital tail pipe. But to leave none
of those signs, and I don't believe many of those
were left behind, is very unusual. If you get on
that scene early, it is very difficult to not only
get away from a scene by yourself, but to get
away from a scene with someone who's obviously not voluntarily
leaving with you. Yeah, that's really difficult.
Speaker 1: So now we wait to find out somebody recognizes this person.
They're probably going to pick up the phone and call in.
I'll go back to the kid that shot and killed
Charlie Kirk. Remember there was video of him. There were
photos they put up of him disguised. He could not
tell who it was, but his mother saw the video
and said, that looks like my son went and talked
to her husband. They went and talked to their son,
and yeah, that was him. So where this goes. I
think it's going to come to a screeching find of
the party very quickly. But there's still a million questions
about all of us. And again, late this afternoon, as
we're recording his podcast, there are investigators going door to
door in primarily Annie Guthie's Guthrie's neighborhood and also some
over by Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. So and then, just as
a side note, just to show you how this is.
All these big criminal investigations are going on in the
middle of real life. So you've got a lot of
reporters parked out in front of Nancy Guthrie's home. So
the police are there and the media is there, and
all of a sudden, the sky pulls up, gets out.
He's got a bunch of boxes of pizza and goes
walking up to the door of Nancy Guthrie's house to
deliver pizza, looking for the doorbell, and it did not
dawn on him. He was on the front porch of
where the world is focused on, and he was apparently
they said, oh, oh, oh, I'm delivering this for one
of the reporters that ordered a bunch of pizzas in
the middle of all of us. Well, they got to
eat pizza. Guy didn't know. He's busy delivering pizzas. So
Wall Street today, gosh just took up the entire news
barrel today. But Wall Street was doing just fine. Mixed
market overall. The Dow Jones industrials another new record, up
fifty two points to fifty thousand and one eight eight.
SMP fell twenty three, Nasdaq fell one hundred and thirty six.
Gold was down thirty dollars to fifty fifty, and oil
was down just a few pennies down to sixty four dollars.
For a barrel of oil. So that's it for today.
Thank you for coming by. We will be back again
tomorrow and I hope to see you then