1 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,719 Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free, 2 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,039 head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com. 3 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:48,039 There you can choose from where you wish to support me. 4 00:00:48,359 --> 00:00:51,240 Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me 5 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,600 about this, even though I think on the last ad 6 00:00:54,119 --> 00:00:58,039 I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed, 7 00:00:58,399 --> 00:01:02,479 you're going to have to subscribe your substack or through Patreon. 8 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:07,000 You can also subscribe on my website which is right there, 9 00:01:07,599 --> 00:01:11,879 gum Road and what's the other one, subscribe Star and 10 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,040 if you do that, you will get access to the 11 00:01:15,079 --> 00:01:19,040 audio file. So head on over to the pekan yonasshow 12 00:01:19,159 --> 00:01:21,640 dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can 13 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,040 support me there. And I just want to thank everyone. 14 00:01:25,519 --> 00:01:27,560 It's because of you that I can put out the 15 00:01:27,599 --> 00:01:30,959 amount of material that I do. I can do what 16 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,840 I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together 17 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:36,760 and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are 18 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:39,959 doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you. 19 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,480 And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank 20 00:01:43,519 --> 00:01:49,079 you enough. So thank you. The Pekanyonashow dot com. Everything's there. 21 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,079 I want to welcome everyone back to the Peaking Yona show, 22 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:57,719 Thomas is here, and this little meeting series doing on 23 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:03,480 Islam and the Reich and Germany in general. We're going 24 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,439 to close that out today. So you know, what we've 25 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,360 heard from the subs is they're really enjoying this. So 26 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,680 thank you for the recommendation on this great subject. I've 27 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:18,560 learned a lot and you know, take it away. 28 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,159 Speaker 2: Thank you. That makes me very happy. And I appreciate 29 00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:27,280 the subs and their kind words and feedback. That's essential. 30 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,080 This is an important subject matter for a lot of reasons. 31 00:02:31,199 --> 00:02:36,479 I generally agree with Arm's and Nolty. Islamic dialectics are 32 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:44,960 very important to the post Cold War historical process in 33 00:02:45,039 --> 00:02:49,439 conceptual terms. I don't think that needs to be said additionally, 34 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,879 and I'm including this as sort of an addendum to 35 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,639 my manuscripts. That's one of the reasons I haven't submitted 36 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,960 it for formal editing to publish your Yet there's this myth, 37 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,039 some of which derives from the testimony of Albert Spear, 38 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,560 which I consider it to be not remotely credible. Obviously, 39 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:20,520 he described the final months of the German Reich as 40 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:29,159 Hitler developing this sort of nihilistic apathy punctuated by fits 41 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,120 of rage and an impulse to sort of burn everything down. 42 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,639 Hitler's actions don't indicate that, and I've emphasized I'm bringing 43 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,319 this back to the subject matter. I'm not on a 44 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:47,879 senile tangent, I promise. I emphasized the fact of Donnit's 45 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:55,319 being designated as successor not just because Hitler thought that 46 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,199 he was a man the Allies would find acceptable and 47 00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:02,280 they did. Other than he was really the only numbered 48 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,479 defendant that people in the United Kingdom, not just the Admiralty, 49 00:04:07,599 --> 00:04:17,199 but a lot of the aristocracy and even people in 50 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,800 the war cabinet came to the defense of. But also 51 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:30,439 there was an understanding that the post war world would 52 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,199 need some sort of resistance legacy if Europe was going 53 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,720 to survive, and if the national socialist cause was going 54 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:52,600 to survive, albeit in a historically contingent configuration. And that's 55 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,439 a subject for a whole we get a whole series 56 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,639 on that, And like I said, I'm dedicating the final 57 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:02,160 third of PROC and leave my manuscript to the subject matter. 58 00:05:03,959 --> 00:05:06,519 One of the only authors who I think truly understands 59 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,839 that and who really understands that there was a fascist 60 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,639 international of a sort during the Cold War and beyond 61 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:19,480 is Kevin Coogan. He was an unusual guy. He wrote 62 00:05:19,519 --> 00:05:22,160 a biography of Francis Yaki, he called Dreamer of the 63 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,600 Day Francis Perkert Yaki in the Post Were Fascist International. 64 00:05:26,439 --> 00:05:30,000 This was released in nineteen ninety nine. It's actually a 65 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:37,519 fantastic book. H Ke Thompson contributed to it and allowed 66 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,720 his testimony to be included. Elsa Davitt, who was a 67 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:50,199 longtime mistress of Francis Yaki. She participated in and proffered 68 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:56,680 a lot of her testimony as well as personal effects 69 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,920 and papers that had belonged to Yaki in the Things 70 00:06:01,399 --> 00:06:06,040 you know. Coogan's definitely a left winger, but of a 71 00:06:06,079 --> 00:06:11,279 more serious type. And I mean the fact that some 72 00:06:11,319 --> 00:06:14,360 of these personages we're willing to participate in the book 73 00:06:14,399 --> 00:06:18,439 project speaks for itself. It's not a purely punitive treatment, 74 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:24,199 but the real value of it, especially if you're reading 75 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:30,680 it as a researcher. There's a couple of hundred pages 76 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:36,480 of footnotes and endnotes that are really incredible, including a 77 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:44,600 substantial amount of material about Johann van Leer's about They're 78 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,959 vague and the National Socialist Resistance in Argentina and then 79 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:56,480 in the Near East, and I highly recommend that book 80 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:02,240 to students of the subject as well as people who 81 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,199 are just curious students of history. You want to get 82 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,319 a better understanding the subject matter. But I raised Kogan 83 00:07:10,399 --> 00:07:14,399 not just because I like that book, but you know, again, 84 00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:19,399 he's one of the only authors I know of who 85 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:27,600 has a deep understanding of this phenomenon and the efforts, 86 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:33,560 particularly of the SS and the SD to curate a 87 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:40,240 national socialist sensibility among Maslim populations. This ramped up in 88 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:45,439 earnest in the final year and a half of the war, 89 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:52,839 when it became clear that en zeg was no longer possible. 90 00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:58,439 And that's not because everybody was delusional. It's not owing 91 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:07,279 to some desperation born of manpower shortages or any of 92 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:19,279 those confabulations. It was because at Base and particularly in 93 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:31,399 the SS, the truly diehard national socialists who were ideologically committed. 94 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:44,120 They had a profoundly Hegelian view of the war and 95 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:49,360 of the historical process generally, and of course Germany was 96 00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:56,200 not a stranger to these sorts of apocalyptic conditions. We're 97 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,799 talking about our Thirty Years War series. I think in 98 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:02,639 the first episode we were talking about a Hitler himself 99 00:09:02,759 --> 00:09:09,399 and Spear speaking of Spear as well as many personages 100 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,039 within the traditional military establishments as well as the national 101 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Socialist cadre that took over the government. The historical polestar 102 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,000 of these people was the Thirty Years War and the 103 00:09:23,039 --> 00:09:26,600 destruction of Germany, the destruction of the First Reich and 104 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:33,279 the scattering of the German racial organism to the proverbial 105 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,279 four wins, And in their mind, it had taken centuries 106 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:49,360 to reconstitute the German nation and to bring Europe into 107 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:57,600 an organizational modality whereby it could fulfill its historical mission 108 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:04,919 and and their estimation, this had taken close to three centuries. 109 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:12,440 So there was an understanding that a similar process was 110 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:20,759 emergent in nineteen forty four forty five, and there was 111 00:10:20,759 --> 00:10:26,840 the added challenge of a world dominated by the communists 112 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:34,120 and by the American Zionist occupation that was looming. Both 113 00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:41,320 of these challenges were related. That's why these ideological schema 114 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:49,720 were quite literally allied, but they were also very distinguishable 115 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,519 in terms of what they represented and what they were 116 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:59,759 trying to accomplish in terms of creating a global political 117 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:12,840 regime and the tactics required to counteract those efforts to 118 00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:19,120 break people up. Their identitarian characteristics and historical memory were 119 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:26,159 somewhat different depending on whether the populations in question were 120 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:29,840 those situated in the East or in the West, and 121 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:35,320 Maslim populations runder unique pressure from the communists, and that 122 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,480 this endured throughout the existence of the Soviet Union. The 123 00:11:40,519 --> 00:11:49,279 Islamic revolt was one of many proximate causes that ultimately 124 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:56,120 brought brought the Soviet Union down. I think that's irrebuttable. 125 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:06,039 So that's something that is important to understand here, and 126 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,360 that's one of the reasons why this remains a relevant, 127 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,600 irrelevant subject matter. It's not just some sort of trivial 128 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:23,240 curiosity related to aspects of the war that are sort 129 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:34,080 of not commonly emphasized, but the role of the Grand 130 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:41,080 Mofty to to change focused just a little bit. The 131 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,639 way that he's cast in the historical record is somewhat incorrect. 132 00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:51,480 There's people with a superficial understanding of national socialism, and 133 00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:56,200 there's some Palestinian liberation. Is to mean well, but they 134 00:12:57,159 --> 00:13:03,120 they're somewhat conceptually impoverished understanding of the historical record. They 135 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,360 cast the moved he is almost like a Palestinian Naser. 136 00:13:09,799 --> 00:13:15,080 That's not really accurate. I mean the point that I 137 00:13:15,159 --> 00:13:21,879 believe if he can be analogized to any contemporary it'd 138 00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:28,519 beside kute. And if you know anything about Islam, particularly 139 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:34,360 highest Sunni Islam, the role of a moufti is not 140 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:41,720 that of a political soldier. It's different. There's definitely a 141 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,720 partisan aspect that goes up saying, but the moft he 142 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:52,440 also he didn't have a sense of pan Arabism. What 143 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:55,720 became sort of the rallying cry of the of the 144 00:13:55,799 --> 00:14:00,120 resistance in the Near East, which is a combination of 145 00:14:01,039 --> 00:14:11,960 pan Arabism and a an East block aligned but this 146 00:14:12,159 --> 00:14:22,919 but discernibly non communist uh sort of militant socialism. That 147 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,320 was not what he viewed as the way forward for Palestinians. 148 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:29,519 And he was absolutely a pan Islamist, but he didn't 149 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,480 he didn't view pan Arabism as a meaningful concept. Then, frankly, 150 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:44,759 it's not. On the other side. Zion Is then and 151 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:49,200 now have tried to cast the moves. He has sort 152 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:59,720 of a Palestinian KODRIANU or some sort of or some 153 00:14:59,759 --> 00:15:03,879 sort of ethnosectarian nationalist who's a mirror of themselves, of 154 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:15,080 themselves who wanted to annihilate Jewelry owing to some sort 155 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:23,320 of highly binary, zero sum concept of racial and sectarian 156 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:31,159 struggle in the region. That's naked propaganda. And interestingly, when 157 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,759 people in the Churchill government who are particularly sympathetic to 158 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,919 designs perspective, tried to convince the Home Office of these 159 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:44,440 things and as far as trying to push the British 160 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,559 authorities is trying to capture the El Husseini. This was 161 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:57,080 quickly quashed and British intelligence simply refused to pursue it. 162 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:06,080 And there was an internal memo that indicated that this 163 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:13,120 was a propaganda effort devised by Zionus on the ground 164 00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:22,559 who were concerned about a leadership cadre reconstituting among their enemies, 165 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:32,759 which they pretty successfully decapitated by this juncture. And to 166 00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:36,159 be clear that moft he was in exile from nineteen 167 00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:42,039 thirty six on, were going to the Arab revolt. The 168 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:47,120 Arab revolt is complicated. I don't want to deep dive 169 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:51,679 into that right now. Briefly, it was a general strike, 170 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,960 was it uprising as more and more European Jews streamed 171 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,399 into Palestine, became clear that the Palestinians were going to 172 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:08,480 be ethnically cleansed, okay, And we talked about how the 173 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:15,400 the British were inconsistent and how they responded to ethnosectarian 174 00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:24,200 violence and you know, categorical attacks upon Palestinians to realize 175 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,079 annihilation oriented goals by the Zionists. So this represented an 176 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:40,000 existential fear. It wasn't just a question of resistance to 177 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:48,680 Palestine being dominated by a hospital Jewish majority. On the ground, 178 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:58,240 there was an element among the Palestinians under Arms two 179 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,160 that had always favored an armed struggle, and their reasoning 180 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:09,960 was we've got to pull the trigger now before the 181 00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:15,680 situation deteriorate the point that it's no longer possible. There 182 00:18:15,759 --> 00:18:27,799 was a a pious Islamist organization that was also highly militant, 183 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:34,039 led by Ease al Din al Hassam. He was a 184 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,880 shakeh and something of a lesser aristocrat, but it was 185 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,640 also a dedicated revolutionary and as early as the mid 186 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,759 nineteen twenties he was demanding that money that was coming 187 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:56,759 into mosques the equivalent of alms, be spent on arms 188 00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:03,240 and military needs rather than on you know, proselytizing and 189 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,640 traditional ecclesiastical to activities and things of that nature, you know, 190 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,839 the equivalent they're in. This caused tension between him and 191 00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:25,000 all Husseini. He'd approached al Husseini and tried to cultivate 192 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:28,720 his friendship and asked to be brought on to the 193 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:36,839 Supreme Moslem Council as an itinerant preacher of sorts, and 194 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,319 Husseini turned him away, but did help him find a 195 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,480 permanent place and a mosque that would be more receptive 196 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:54,680 to his revolutionary concepts. This is viewed to some people too, 197 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,680 including again some Palestinian liberationists who mean well today as 198 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:05,000 being perfectness and Alussini being political. I don't think that's fair. 199 00:20:05,559 --> 00:20:08,039 And Alssini he also knew that his people weren't in 200 00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:13,880 a position to win at that moment. He was continuing 201 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,240 to try and curate a relationship with the British too, 202 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:26,839 out of necessity, owing to again the hopelessness of the 203 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,079 military situation at that juncture. But as it happened in 204 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,000 nineteen thirty six, a general strike did kick off, and 205 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,279 once the uprising began, the move he stowed with Palestine. 206 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,200 He was very much accused though, of fermenting this and 207 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:52,880 being a leader of it, the British commanders on the 208 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:58,119 ground who he'd curated a relationship with. I believe they 209 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:04,039 talked to the Foreign Office and British intelligence, and that's 210 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,759 why the move he wasn't harmed. He was allowed to 211 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:17,839 live in exile relatively undisturbed at that juncture, because you know, 212 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:33,920 it was clear that he wasn't devising a revolutionary resistance movement, 213 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,559 He wasn't trying to force a kinetic outcome to then 214 00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:52,440 extend conditions. But this was when all was seeing he 215 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:58,079 began approaching representatives of the Third Reich, and they began 216 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:05,319 approaching him, And we talked about gottlab Burger and elements 217 00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:14,240 within the both the Algass and in various party offices 218 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:23,119 who viewed this as imperative. And aloisaying he only met 219 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,160 with Hitler face to face once in November nineteen forty one, 220 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,039 but the fact that he met him at all is 221 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,920 remarkable because it was not easy to get access to Hitler. 222 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:42,039 What he was able to procure Hitler guaranteed and he 223 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:49,200 convinced Alduce to co sign this guarantee that after the 224 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:57,400 defeat of the British Empire, Palestine would become an Arab 225 00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:01,880 state and would be ethnically cleansed of Jews. Whether the 226 00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:10,640 Mufti would become the ruler of that state, I find 227 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:21,519 that unlikely. Again, there's it's complicated how traditional Islamic authority 228 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:24,160 is organized. You need to be clear. People get the 229 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,960 people have this misconception because first of all, the look 230 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,960 at the place like Iran, and of course there's a 231 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,759 there's a sectarian divide there because She and Sunni are 232 00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:40,160 very different, and even within those broad sects, there's there's 233 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,200 there's there's differences within Sunni Islam and She Islam that 234 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:49,519 are profound. The Iranian government called itself the revolutionary government 235 00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:54,440 precisely because it's not this reactionary regime. The Fuku one 236 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:03,680 of the few essays he wrote that oriented towards ideological practice, 237 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,599 that that's in a you know, direct capacity. He went 238 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:17,480 to Tehran as the revolution was underway, and he made 239 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,200 the point that this was something people hadn't seen before. 240 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:27,519 It wasn't some reactionary regime of clerics. It was very 241 00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:34,079 much an Islamic movement, but it was a hybrid ideology 242 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:40,599 that was a truly third position as tendency in the 243 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:47,960 true sense okay al Hussini didn't represent some Sunni variant 244 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:58,079 of that. And also once what became the Palestinian Liberation movement, 245 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,119 it's proverbial de in the Arab revolt and in the 246 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:12,519 men who they took inspiration from and the moved. He 247 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,200 wasn't really part of that. You know. He definitely was 248 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,480 a partisan, and he took on the function of a 249 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:26,319 political soldier as he became insinuated into the SS organization. 250 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:37,319 But military command and political credibility became inextricably bound up 251 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,519 in theater, and that some of that duras to this day. 252 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:50,839 But you know, it's not this idea that the move 253 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:57,039 He simply approached Hitler because he had ambitions to become 254 00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:09,160 Emperor of Palestine or the the boss of the Arab 255 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:16,240 Committee or something, and wanted to parlay that into authority 256 00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:20,200 over a Palestinian ethno state that was going to emerge 257 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,720 at NC guy that I don't think that's credible. What 258 00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:29,279 was important was that he got a guarantee from Hitler. 259 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,559 He had the patronage of the Axis, and I guaranteed 260 00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:38,079 that forces would be brought to bear, and Hitler made 261 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,960 clear to him. Hitler said he believed in the Arab people, 262 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,200 and he believed in the in the Scanty's cause, which 263 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,400 which I think was true. But he also said that 264 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,720 the German Reich had essential interests in the region and 265 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:57,279 they expected the Palestinians to help those things be realized. 266 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,880 So obviously it was a real politic aspect of this too. 267 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:12,799 But both men came to realize also that this had 268 00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:19,680 become a planetary struggle, you know, And by November nineteen 269 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,480 forty one, America wasn't as I mean America the fact 270 00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:27,839 it was at war with Germany. From September ninety forty 271 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:37,759 one onwards, the Reich was the Wehrmacht was closing in 272 00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:49,559 on Moscow, and it became clear that the struggle was 273 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,839 global in character, and even after final victory was realized, 274 00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:01,400 which appeared to be imminent as a November nineteen forty one, 275 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:16,119 no Germany needed allies in newly liberated formerly colonial spaces. 276 00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:26,759 But there was also a basic affinity and that's coded 277 00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:33,400 into national socialism through influences like Schopenhauer and things, and 278 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,720 the German character generally. Hitler wasn't some orientalists like von Weiers, 279 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,480 but I think it's clear to all but the most 280 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,519 literal and binary minds when I'm getting it and towards 281 00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:54,039 that I mentioned before about Opra group and Feler and 282 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,960 Genaha Devafans got lad Berger, who I think was a 283 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:06,119 fascinating individual will and he was a key personage in 284 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:18,240 forcing the through policies within the SS relating to the 285 00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:24,000 alliance with not just the Palestinians and al Hussini, but 286 00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:33,599 with the Islamic nationalities in the East. He clarified. Berger said, 287 00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:42,359 and I'm paraphrasing the relationship between Islam and national socialism. 288 00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:52,240 There's a vocus imperative, but what is not intended is 289 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:56,279 a synthesis. He said, quote it is not intended to 290 00:29:56,279 --> 00:29:59,079 find a synthesis of Islam and national socialism or to 291 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:06,079 impose national socialism and the Maslims. Rather, national Socialism is 292 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:09,920 to be seen as the genuine focused German worldview, while 293 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,640 Islam is to be seen as the genuine focused Arabic worldview. 294 00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:20,759 He was using Arabic as a stand in for I mean, obviously, 295 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,960 the land of the Prophet and the Arabic language and 296 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:32,880 Muhammad himself means that Arab cultural forms have an outsized 297 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:39,359 significance in Islam. He was using Arabic in the Arabic 298 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,680 world view in a Shpangalarian sense to include, you know, 299 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:52,640 in most of the Islamic elements under the Reich authority, 300 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,240 where we're not Arab. And again there was this emphasis 301 00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:08,079 on Sarajevo in specifically in Bosnia as the as the 302 00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:15,400 heartland of European Islam, and thus they were to be 303 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,119 given priority. And Berger emphasized that. And mind you, Burger 304 00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:25,759 was uh. He was second only to the right's fear 305 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,839 ss Himiler in his rank. He had a rank equivalent 306 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:36,920 to Paul Hauser and Scept Dietrich. So he his word 307 00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:45,920 was uh law within the organization. And he clarified that 308 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:52,079 the Moslems, the Balkans were racially part of the Germanic 309 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:57,119 world well ideologically and spiritually part of the Arab world. 310 00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:03,279 So he said, among other things, these Balkan Moslem peoples, 311 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,880 they represent, you know what the complimentary aspects are of 312 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:23,240 this alliance and this unity of veldenstrong against communism and Jewry. 313 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,920 And he continued by saying, through the deployment of a 314 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,039 Maslem ss division, speaking of the Bosniacs here they're made 315 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:36,880 hereby for the first time the established a connection between 316 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:40,759 Islam and national socialism, or rather between the Arab and 317 00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:44,039 the Germanic world and an open, honest basis as this 318 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,400 division in terms of blood and race is influenced by 319 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,680 the North in terms of ideology, and contrast by the 320 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:57,799 orient I think I got into in the last episode. 321 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,839 I tried to clarify by reference to my outlines what 322 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,000 I covered, So stop me if I'm being redundant. But 323 00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:16,559 in nineteen forty four the SS head office at behest 324 00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:20,960 the Burger, they established two Islamic centers for religious education. 325 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:23,759 The first one, which I think I got into a bit, 326 00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:29,519 was open in April nineteen forty four. It was in 327 00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:36,319 a small town called Kuben in Brandenburg. This was this 328 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,160 was the Imam Institute, and we talked about emoms in 329 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:47,000 Navafen SS and the important role they played at not 330 00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:49,839 just divisional level, but at company and even platoon level. 331 00:33:53,200 --> 00:34:01,599 And this Al Hussini himself attended a ceremony with the 332 00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:07,799 gott Love Burger and an email named Hussein Disozo, who 333 00:34:07,839 --> 00:34:17,400 was a Bosniac. More significant, particularly to the subject matter, 334 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:23,519 that I started this discussion with what always colloquially called 335 00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:40,519 the SS Mullus School it was, it didn't formally It 336 00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:48,159 wasn't formally established until November forty four, and once again 337 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:55,199 there was an inauguration ceremony tailored to celebrate it up 338 00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:02,199 the size a Germanic mods of alliance. The opening speech 339 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:08,519 was proffered by Walter Schellenberg, and the end of the 340 00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:15,800 Soviet was interesting because again it it seemed very much 341 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,760 coded swords of post war world and proceeding under hostile 342 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:34,199 occupation without without resulting the language that suggested what in 343 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,880 the national socialist ideological culture would be looked upon pejoratively 344 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:46,320 as defeatism. But the crux of Schellensberg's speech was the 345 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:52,760 historical associations, the traditional bonds between the kaiser Reich and 346 00:35:53,039 --> 00:36:03,480 darl Islam, the longstanding support for Moslem peoples who were 347 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:25,400 besieged by Jewish tyranny. And it emphasized too that the 348 00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:32,440 Soviet Union, by its very existence it represented as not 349 00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:41,519 just on focused ways of life, but on all confessional 350 00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:56,400 practices and cultural expressions, first among them Islam. And Schellenberg 351 00:36:56,599 --> 00:37:03,480 specifically said that the focus of Russia had been destroyed 352 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:12,880 for all practical purposes and totally deracinated, and that the 353 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,800 non Russian people under occupation and on the periphery of 354 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:23,679 the Soviet Empire were similarly being targeted for destruction, and 355 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:32,199 their fate would be the same as that of the 356 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:43,360 Russians if an effective resistance wasn't cultivated, and the only 357 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,320 way that that could be realized is by the dual 358 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:57,480 commitment to racial hygieni and confessional piousness. And in this respect, 359 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,519 Elenberg said Islam was the quote custodian of the Eastern 360 00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:08,280 people and their biological substance as well as their confessional 361 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:15,559 heritage in linear terms back to the time of the prophet, 362 00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:22,800 and he concluded by saying that because the Bolsheviks lack 363 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,480 traditions in the past, they're not long for this earth, 364 00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:29,960 but that Moslims are able to cope with the future 365 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:35,880 no matter what hardships emerge, because not just to the 366 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,400 racial purity of the several populations who are very tribally 367 00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:46,119 randed who constituted the Eastern Mauslims, but that basically their 368 00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:50,760 faith would carry them through the historical destruction of Bolshevism 369 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:58,599 and the racially impure intermentioned who are the standard bearers 370 00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:02,679 of the Bolshi gideology, who are really just the vestigial 371 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:08,599 remnants of the Russian racial corps that died in the 372 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:18,239 Soviet death camps. Very very hitty stuff, not not not typical, 373 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,280 just sort of grab bag propaganda, you know. And this 374 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:31,079 is important. And the Moullas School it was it was 375 00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:34,639 far larger than the Email School. It was based at 376 00:39:34,639 --> 00:39:42,960 this villa in uh, this affluent neighborhood outside of Dresden. 377 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:52,400 There was this Victor Klemper He was this Jewish writer 378 00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:59,599 who curiously, you know, didn't get like shot shot into 379 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:03,760 space or something by the Nazi Holocaust. But he was 380 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,880 a lot of people, i think, including Shier, William Shier, 381 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,559 who wrote a very silly book that a lot of 382 00:40:12,639 --> 00:40:15,679 quote historians hold out as some great treatment of the 383 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,960 Third Reich. Of course Shira pulled it. There was a 384 00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:20,320 rise and fall of the Third Roag and then there 385 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,800 was the Nightmare Years. That's an objective and not at 386 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,960 all a sterical title for a history book. But Victor 387 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:34,800 Klemferry he kept diaries and he documented his observations on 388 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,119 various things. 389 00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 1: They really like to keep diaries, don't they. 390 00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 2: Well, it be fair that was something people did in 391 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,159 those days. I mean, I'm talking actual people, not fictitious 392 00:40:45,199 --> 00:40:49,480 diaries of you know, girls who wrote like Judy Bloom 393 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:54,400 books that were marketed for like nineteen seventies junior high students. 394 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,800 You know most I mean Gebels was especially prolific. But 395 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,800 Yodel kept a diary, So did Kitle, so did Rosenberg, 396 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,119 Alfred Rosenberg, so did Erhard Milch. But no, I I 397 00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:14,880 take your point. But Klemper's diary I believe was real. 398 00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:25,360 And he noted he was observing obviously from without that 399 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,159 you know, what was going on in this old but 400 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,360 rather stately property, which I believe is a repurpose to hotel. 401 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:40,079 In blasphets this this neighborhood of Dresden, and he said 402 00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:47,239 there was a quote mysterious Moslem study group there this 403 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,960 if you want to relate. But I when I read 404 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,239 that I had this, I had this funny image of 405 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,159 this like little Nevish dude like kieking out at h 406 00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:05,280 at the end, things like going out of this cothing 407 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:12,880 building and what what does going on? I don't know? 408 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,239 Maybe uh I am from the silly, silly kind of 409 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:28,239 ship like that, but uh moving on it. Uh it 410 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,920 can't uh something that something you can't you can't you 411 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:39,920 can't chug us up to some sort of you know, 412 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:46,119 effort to corral halpless pow us in the frontline service 413 00:42:46,199 --> 00:42:52,119 or something, the flesh out the ranks of of devastated 414 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:58,559 divisions and battalions. You know, the people suggest that sort 415 00:42:58,559 --> 00:43:08,280 of thing, don't no the the subject matter. And there 416 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:18,440 was a a a guy named rayner O Shakka Olshacha. 417 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:26,400 He was assigned to set things up in the Moulla 418 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:35,239 school and uh make it culturally compliant with the students 419 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:43,679 who'd be attending it. So old Shaka Olshacha. He decked 420 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:49,800 out the interior building in ways that reflected Islamic architectural styles. 421 00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:55,760 The main entrance hall was decorated with a mosaic patterns 422 00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:02,360 specifically after mosques in Central Asia. There was a lot 423 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:11,239 of you know, Islamic artifacts on loan from museums in 424 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:17,119 the Greater German Reich. There was Kuranic verses and calligraphy 425 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:25,039 painted into the walls. There was a prayer niche in 426 00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:33,320 one of the main assembly areas. There was an ornate 427 00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:40,599 prayer hall which was sort of the center of activity 428 00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:47,480 on the ground floor, you know. And so I mean 429 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,920 the SS went out of their way to create an 430 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:59,559 authentically Islamic environment, and they went as far as h 431 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:10,039 to hire Kurt Erdman. He was the foremost expert on 432 00:45:11,199 --> 00:45:17,199 Islamic culture and art history in the Oriental department of 433 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:26,159 the Pergamon Museum in Berlin, and he consulted with our 434 00:45:26,199 --> 00:45:31,280 intacts from Berlin and Dresden to mock this up. And 435 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,840 it took half a year. You know, there was a 436 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:42,639 great library. It had Islamic, authentic Islamic texts from France, 437 00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:51,400 from Bosnia, from the Netherlands, including rare ancient texts that 438 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:58,960 have been purchased in Sarajevo. Around this time, anybody, no 439 00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:04,679 matter there, or any any folks Deutsch or any any 440 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,719 any non Jewish Auslander could obtain a free Koran from 441 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:17,079 the Propaganda Ministry just by asking for one. There weren't 442 00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:22,280 a lot of Qurans that have been properly translated into German, 443 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,039 so an effort was made to remedy that by the 444 00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:35,960 Propaganda Ministry. And one of the reasons for these efforts 445 00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:44,159 was the s S wanted to attract top religious scholars 446 00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:51,039 and imams to teach at the school, but also to 447 00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:59,840 attend it for political education and military education and with 448 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:09,760 in the SS model and reading between the lines, you know, 449 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,880 again this is the last year that wore under desperate conditions. 450 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,800 They were looking to build cadres. They were looking to 451 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:24,599 build dedicated national socialist cadres within these populations for a 452 00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:31,199 post war world, you know. I that should be clear 453 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:41,239 to anybody who understands what they're looking at. Metaphorically speaking, 454 00:47:41,599 --> 00:47:56,199 I think Alam John Idris or Idris, he was coveted 455 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:02,440 as director of the Mollus School, but he was still 456 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,239 in the service of the Propaganda Ministry as well as 457 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,679 the Foreign Office, and he was the top man in 458 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,199 charge of propaganda in the Islamic world, and neither the 459 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,679 Foreign Office nor the nor Gebels would let him go, 460 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,719 you know. And again this they were emphasizing the propaganda 461 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,639 aspect in the theater and in Palestine, as well as 462 00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:34,599 in among the nationalities and in the Soviet Union, and 463 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:40,199 uh of course in in Bosnia. But the Bosniaks again, 464 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:46,440 they they were they were racial Europeans, and most of 465 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:52,199 them were multi lingualed just because where they lived, you know, 466 00:48:52,360 --> 00:49:00,559 and they had a privileged position within within the the Reich. 467 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,320 So it was it would have been a redundant to 468 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,119 make them the focus group of these efforts, if you 469 00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:19,960 follow me. But nevertheless, ultimately the propaganda ministry they let 470 00:49:20,039 --> 00:49:30,599 Idris preside over the Mullas School three days a week. 471 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:40,000 He was young, comparatively charismatic. He was very modern and 472 00:49:40,119 --> 00:49:45,599 had Western habits. He had a great admiration for the 473 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:48,960 European culture, and he assimilated very well into Germany culturally. 474 00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:54,360 But he was also a very, very dedicated Moslem. He 475 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,760 was kind of viewed as the model Maslim national socialists. 476 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:10,800 He had a son who UH worked as an interpreter 477 00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:15,960 and then ultimately joined UH the Eastern Maslim SS Corps 478 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:22,320 in the final year of the war. And that obviously 479 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:27,239 was I mean, I anybody who joined that late in 480 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,719 the game knew there's a good chance they weren't coming home. 481 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:37,079 I mean, he was a dedicated he was codated di Jahad. 482 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,320 But he this also was something of a propaganda coup. Yo. 483 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:49,000 Look this wealthy Molas offering up his son to fight 484 00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:55,440 for the Reich. It's no small thing, obviously, you know. 485 00:50:55,559 --> 00:51:06,719 And the and the ss UH it says that I 486 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:15,039 only employing Moslims as teachers in the mother school. In contrast, 487 00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:25,360 to the Wehrmacht and in contrast to other party institutions 488 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,159 that dealt with the education and political indoctrination of Moslim peoples, 489 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:37,400 the SS took this very seriously, you know, and that 490 00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:52,519 that tracks with its overall orientation, you know, the It's 491 00:51:52,519 --> 00:52:02,840 a fascinating sort of aspect to the Reich's relationship to Romania. 492 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,079 You know, Hitler, Antoniscu and Hitler were very close, and 493 00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:14,320 Antonescua was probably the fears best ali and I mean 494 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:23,239 Romania sacrificed tremendously for the Axis cause and also the 495 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,280 fact that they when Stalin began World War two with 496 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:32,440 his War of Conquest, obviously Romania was very much in 497 00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:38,159 the crosshairs of of Moscow, so there was an existential 498 00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:44,880 imperative as to why they'd welcome the Vermacht deploying its 499 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,360 scale there. But also obviously Antonescu not only to commit 500 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,199 close to a quarter million men the Barbarosa, but he 501 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:59,320 availed Romania as a staging ground for a huge component 502 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:09,360 of like forces and being in operational terms. But later, 503 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:17,880 you know, anton Escu he presided over the brief National 504 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,480 legionary state and then he banned the Iron Guard owing 505 00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:28,800 to what he viewed as their revolutionary subversion. This was 506 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:35,679 in the aftermath of this is when Sema had succeeded Kodrianu, 507 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:41,760 who'd been murdered. But the SS famously they backed the 508 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:46,760 Iron Guard against Kodrianu, who the fear of himself, you know, 509 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:53,280 unconditionally backed Kadrianu. That there was an SS ideology into 510 00:53:53,280 --> 00:54:02,280 itself which was very pan European, very revolutionary, very very different, 511 00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:09,639 not just from the Wehrmachten, traditional German society and even 512 00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:12,920 traditional German military culture, but distinguishedable from the mainstream of 513 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,760 the NSDAP as well. And I find it fascinating. But 514 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,960 to bring it back to the subject at hand. One 515 00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:28,239 thing that the Mulla School emphasized, and this is another 516 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:36,599 reason why they insisted on on Moslim teachers exclusively the 517 00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:43,719 theological program. It was very oriented towards overcoming sectarian hostilities 518 00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:50,320 and in the SS tried to prioritize bridging the divide 519 00:54:50,360 --> 00:55:00,079 between scenes and Schiites. There's a constant emphasis against of 520 00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:14,599 religious sectarianism among Moslems, you know, and traditionally in in 521 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:29,280 Wehrmacht units where traditionally she and Sunnies were segregated and 522 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,400 the ss were not only refused to do that, but 523 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:41,800 they pursued an anti sectarian line, and the emphasis again 524 00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:50,480 was that the schism was contrived by men who coveted 525 00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:58,320 worldly power after the the center of the prophet of heaven, 526 00:55:59,559 --> 00:56:10,199 and that the current struggle where the the dual threat 527 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:19,719 in existential terms to the Islamic faith and to the 528 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:30,880 race of the nationalities and populations that constituted darl Islam. 529 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:38,039 That calls for a healing of the schism, even were 530 00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:51,320 it not a contrivance promised on worldly and thus actuallymatically 531 00:56:51,320 --> 00:57:04,679 corrupt the ambitions, you know. And again the implication, in 532 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:11,440 my opinion is obvious. It's, you know, we a political 533 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:18,199 soldier looking ahead circa nineteen forty four forty five needs 534 00:57:18,239 --> 00:57:27,360 to adopts as as primary concern the racial survival of 535 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:36,559 his people and the continuity of his faith on this planet, 536 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:42,000 you know, in the face of the dual assault of 537 00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:50,920 Zionism and communism, and we'll we'll stop it there. I 538 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,599 hope this wasn't I hope people got something out of this. 539 00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:57,559 I mean, I presume they did, because people have been 540 00:57:57,679 --> 00:58:00,000 very nice in their feedback. 541 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:08,679 Speaker 1: No, I mean, if anything, I would like to hear 542 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,800 more people not talk about Islam like they're a boomer 543 00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:15,800 right after nine to eleven. 544 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,199 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean they're they're they're idiots. That's one 545 00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:23,039 of the reasons. I mean, they're we we we've got 546 00:58:23,079 --> 00:58:29,159 Islamic comrades who are great. But beyond that, you know, 547 00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:31,559 I don't. But the same people lip off at me 548 00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:34,199 about World War two or about the law. It's like, well, 549 00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:36,679 you're the expert, you know how, like you we watch 550 00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:38,599 a lot of you watch a lot of TV, you 551 00:58:38,639 --> 00:58:41,599 watch a lot of cable legacy media, so you're you're 552 00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:48,159 an Islam expert. I mean, I that's why. That's the 553 00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:51,559 reason I emphasize these topics because even in supposely disitting 554 00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:57,079 coded spaces, these people are conceptual alliterates by and large, 555 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,920 but you can't. The final reason I'm trying to get 556 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:10,280 more more guys who have a theological expertise or their 557 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:16,119 background is, you know, in in a Bible, Christianity or 558 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,960 or Catholicism or Orthodoxy or Islam, because that's I mean, 559 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,599 at the end of the day, I mean, I like 560 00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:30,280 what we've talked about. It's I'm more a capital T 561 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,440 radical tradition with than i am anything probably. I mean 562 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,559 you're talking about like my political philosophy, you know. I 563 00:59:38,599 --> 00:59:41,280 mean I identify as a YACKI as national socialist. But 564 00:59:42,119 --> 00:59:48,840 what the it's renee g you know, on it's Mercia Eliotti, 565 00:59:49,719 --> 00:59:55,199 Julius evil. Uh. That's a substantial part of my my 566 00:59:55,559 --> 00:59:58,320 cannon if you want know what it like that? Okay, 567 00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:06,760 And there's this kind of dummy anti intellectualism that's just 568 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:13,800 hostile to theology and religion, you know, I mean that 569 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:21,679 that's common to any epoch really, you know, even people 570 01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,880 I've revererd that point with some of our Orthodox friends 571 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:30,599 and some of our Catholic friends who view the Medieval 572 01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:33,400 era as a period of high culture that's unduly maligned, 573 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,559 which is absolutely true. Casting the Middle Ages is a 574 01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:43,079 sort of hellish time of cultural poverty. I mean, that's ridiculous. 575 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:44,840 I mean, I don't know how any I don't know 576 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:46,960 how any Anglophone person can think that way anyway. I mean, 577 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,880 are theory and lore and the Ulster cycle, if you're 578 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,159 somebody like me, that's second only to the King James Bible, 579 01:00:54,039 --> 01:00:57,320 you know, like I and that that that comes out 580 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,239 of the horrifying Medieval era, you know. But beyond that. 581 01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:05,000 I think some people they kind of view with the 582 01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:08,480 royals colored glasses, this idea. Oh well, then there's this, 583 01:01:08,599 --> 01:01:14,320 there's this integrated concept. You know that they mean in 584 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,239 terms of trifunctional hypothesis, but they mean that religious life 585 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:24,760 informed everyday sensibilities. And that's somewhat true. But I think 586 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:29,280 it was, and I think most people are not about class. 587 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:34,719 This this doesn't know class in terms of where these 588 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,400 sensibilities are concentrated. But I think most people even then 589 01:01:39,679 --> 01:01:42,840 it was a very kind of superficial thing. You know, 590 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:45,760 people are gonna look at scance at you if you 591 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:51,239 take religion seriously and you want to emphasize it as 592 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:59,280 the subject matter, that it is your sort of the 593 01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:05,840 topical focus, you know. But yeah, I people like that 594 01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:13,199 are I don't know, I mean I I I've had 595 01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:17,400 to get havituated at tuning out ignorant people because they're 596 01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,920 all around me and they're all really noisy. They're I 597 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,719 don't know, you know, I'm not I'm not here to 598 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,960 educate morons, and I'm not I'm not here to like 599 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,519 listen to assholes lip off on things they don't know about. 600 01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:33,719 So I just the minority of people who want to 601 01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,400 talk about serious stuff, and I think like little fucking kids. 602 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,280 I mean, you know, of the people I want to 603 01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:39,960 interact with. 604 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,280 Speaker 1: All right, everybody, go over it to Thomas A substack 605 01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:47,960 real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com and 606 01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:52,079 check out his website Thomas seven seven seven dot com. 607 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,679 T is a seven and you can hook up with 608 01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:00,000 him uh from there. Thank you, Tom, I appreciate it. 609 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:00,880 Speaker 2: Thank you man.