Speaker 1: Hey, Michael Steel podcast listeners. Michael Steele here with another
quick take from the Michael Steel Podcast. Check out What's
going on right now. One of the things that I
picked up in this book very early on, because I
look for for things like this as a telltale sign
about the individual that otherwise would may not be noticed
in other narratives. And it was really right in the
prologue where you you talked about being, you know, a
little bit of a reformer, you wanted to change the way,
and I identify with that as the former chairman of
a party that could use some reforms, you know, I
I identify with that narrative and that that desire to
look at what is and see to you again to
what you're saying, the hopeful side, the possibilities of what
can be in terms of how even in the diplomatic space,
we can improve upon these relationships in a way that
inure to the benefit certainly of the US, but also
to our allies and our opponents. How how have you
found how did you find reforming the process of diplomacy
in your work, particularly doing your two tours at Ukraine
and having to deal with Russia, for example, stimulating frustrating successful.
Speaker 2: What I'm not sure we've actually entered the period of reform.
I would agree with that, So, I mean, there have
been changes, changes on the margins, but I think that
you're right, the State Department needs to reform because we
are essentially still a service, you know, from the nineteen fifties,
which was you know, a white boys club. Neither of
us did in and you know, the makeup of the
families was different, and I think, you know, a lot
of personnel things need to be changed. But I think
we also need to take a look at what are
the challenges that we face in twenty twenty two, in
twenty thirty two, and what are the tools that we
have to address those challenges. And I think we need
to do a real deep dive into some of these issues.
Some of it you know, structural and personnel and all
of that stuff, and that's hard enough, but I think
some of the other things are you know, what of
the old tools I mean I think of you know,
the Cold War radios like VOA and America and Radio
for Europe. I think those are still really good tools
because in some ways, ironically they can sometimes be more
more reliable, uh than what comes over on social media
because those networks can be taken down pretty quick. But
we also need to do the new stuff and we
are trying to, but it also comes with you know,
state department. It's government, lots of layers of approval, and
it's hard to be nimble. And in this environment where
you've got you know there there aren't deadlines anymore. There's
just a constant news environment. So we need to be
out there as nimble as everybody else. So that's just
one area that we need to take a hard look
at and we need to resource. And I think what
we need to do is not only not only because
we want to tell the American story to audiences overseas,
because that is so vitally important and we need to
do a better better job of it, but we also
need to tell the story of what we do to
the American people because I don't think people understand what
diplomats do because it's kind of quiet profession, all things
going well. You never hear about us, and that's sort
of how it should be. But it's hard to build
up support, you know, in the American public in Congress,
and why would they vote for additional resources if there's
you know, not the same kind of support as if
you know part of the helicopter is being built in
every every state of the Union. So I think we
need to do a better job of telling our story
and getting support among the American people, because what we
do is we are the front lines so that hopefully
we never have to use our military. If we're successful,
we would never have to use the military. And I
think we need to explain how we how we help
companies get contracts overseas, creating jobs in America, profits in America,
how we how we bolster American security working with of
our colleagues and d O D and other security agencies,
and how we keep you know, our political alliances and
partnerships going so that the world is more free, which
makes us more free.
Speaker 1: So in the in the in a little bit of
time we have left before I let you scoot onto
other more important things. Uh, let's let's talk about where
we are right now with Ukraine. You have a unique
experience with Ukraine. How are you how do you make
sense of current events in Ukraine? What do you see
the stakes are for Ukraine and for Europe and for
the US at this point, h and did you have
some sense, some prediction that yeah, this is where we're
going to end up if A, B and C don't
come together.
Speaker 2: I knew and actually write about this in the book.
I knew that Plutin was going to test us again
because we did not sufficiently deter him in two thousand
and eight and Georgia twenty fourteen. In Ukraine, I didn't
anticipate that it would be twenty twenty two in Ukraine.
I thought that the war that he kept on going
for the last eight years in Ukraine's East and the
Dambas was going to be enough for him. But I
was wrong. But I'm not surprised that he is testing
the West, and now in retrospect, I'm not surprised that
he is going after Ukraine because, as you know, his
original goal was all of Ukraine, and my own view
is it probably still is his goal. You know that
he will try to get whatever he can now and
regroup and go for it again if we let him,
which is why Ukraine must prevail in this battle. So
the stakes for Ukraine, you know, it's their country, it's
their families, it's their freedom, really really clear, and they
are fighting so hard and they've got Zelenski, you know,
the Winston Churchill.
Speaker 1: The man is amazing, amazing, he is amazing.
Speaker 2: But he reflects to Ukrainian people. I mean, you can
see it in their military, in the Territorial Defense forces,
and you know, every grandma who's putting together a Molotov cocktail,
it's amazing. And so they know what they're fighting for.
And Putin has told us, he told us on the
eve of the war that he's going to keep on
going because there are other countries he has an eye
on that, you know, it is easier to stop. It
is better to stop Putin in Ukraine than to let
him keep on going. And I would say that his
stakes are even higher than that because the international rules
based order does not work for Putin. He cannot compete
in the world that was constructed after World War two.
Cliances and everything else, he can't. And so what he's
trying to do is create a world where might makes right.
And so you know, if he gets away with it,
just as he did before, he'll keep on going. And
others other dictators are watching because that works for them too.
It doesn't work for us. We need a world that
you know, is secure, and therefore prosperous and free. I'm
not saying that the rules based order that we've had
since World War Two doesn't require some adjustments. Everything does
after a you know, seventy plus years, and I think,
you know, this is this is the moment. You know,
we're going to look at this as a pre February
twenty fourth world and a post of February twenty fourth world.
How do we meet this challenge, not just in Ukraine
but overall so that people like Putin don't write the
rules for how we in America live our lives.
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, thanks so much for listening today. Please go
to Apple Podcasts and give us a five star review. Okay,
give us two five star reviews. I love it or
it catch us on stitch your iHeart, tune in or
wherever you get that podcast thing on. You know how
that goes? Peace out?
Speaker 3: What was it like to cover President Donald Trump? Hi?
I'm Deborah J. Saunders, former White House correspondent for the
Las Vegas Review Journal. I was not one of the
stars you'd see in the front two rows of the
briefing room. I was in the back of the room
or standing in the aisles before I got a seat.
It was not fake news, it was my life. I
get up in the morning and see what the most
powerful men in the world wrote on Twitter overnight, are
blurted out during a call in to a morning news show,
then try to make sense of it all. I should
give a warning. There is adult language, although not necessarily
from the most of adults covering the Trump White House
feels much better in the rear view mirror. Missus trailing
Trump Notes from the Back of the Briefing Room, premiering
June fourteenth on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you
listen to podcasts.