WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.599 Hi, my name is David Hannah. I'm the author of 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.200 Broken Nicarus. My new book is about the nineteen thirty 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.080 three Chicago World's Fair aviation in the Rise of Fascism. 4 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.240 You're listening to the Doctor Sky Experience in seventy seven 5 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:14.679 of you ABC. 6 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:34.880 And welcome back, letters and Zutoman to the exciting Doctor 7 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:39.600 Sky Experience on America's iconic radio station, Talk Radio seventy 8 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:44.439 seven WABC out of New York City and around the world. 9 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.840 The Doctor Sky Experience has great interviews from the realms 10 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:52.799 of astronomy, space, aviation, and weather with celebrity guests in 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.679 the mix, and as an added bonus, great guests from 12 00:00:56.679 --> 00:00:59.719 the realms of American exceptionalism. As we continue to talk 13 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:02.880 about truth, justice in the American way and to make 14 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.120 all that happen for Progon on it to have our 15 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:09.319 producer as part of this particular program, doctor d Richard Dugan, 16 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:12.560 who makes it all happen. The pack and relax, ladies 17 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.879 and gentlemen, a very special guest today just a moment 18 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.959 a brief introduction of our author and guest, David Hannah, 19 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:24.239 a Brand of Prometheus Books book entitled Broken Icarus. The 20 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:27.319 nineteen thirty three Chicago World's Fair, The Golden Age of 21 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:31.400 Aviation and the Rise of Fascism. But a brief introduction 22 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:34.640 of our special guest is in order. David Hannah was 23 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:36.879 raised on the coast of May and he teaches history 24 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:39.439 at Stuyvesant High School in New York, and he is 25 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:42.079 a recipient of the New York Times Teachers Make a 26 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:47.079 Difference Award and the University of Chicago's Outstanding Educator Award. 27 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.840 In addition to today's book, he's also the proud author 28 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.280 of Knights of the Sea Rendezvous with Death, and he's 29 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:56.879 here today to talk about this iconic book that's so 30 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.319 timely today, especially if you're a fan of aviation and 31 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.159 American history. A little backtrack on the book, and sideline 32 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.400 goes like this, in the nineteen thirties, they still conjure 33 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:11.360 painful images, the great want of the depression, and overseas, 34 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:16.000 the exuberant crowds, motivated by self appointed national saviors dressing 35 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.120 up old hatreds as new ideas. But there was another 36 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:22.840 story that embodied mankind in that decade. In the same 37 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.759 year that both Adolf Hitler and Franklin D. Roosevelt came 38 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.960 to power the city of Chicago stage what was up 39 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:33.439 to that time the most forward looking international exhibition in history, 40 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:36.960 that is the nineteen thirty three World's Fair. It looked 41 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:40.560 to the future undebashionedly as one of the full glowing 42 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:45.000 promise of the future, that particular exhibition a century of progress. 43 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:48.360 Here to tell us about that is David Hannah. David, 44 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.639 thank you for joining us today and thank you for 45 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:51.520 being with us. 46 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.400 That's my pleasure to just guy, Well. 47 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:56.439 Thank you so much. I mean, this is a fascinating book. 48 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.919 And yes I did read the book from cover to cover, 49 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.520 and who wouldn't want to because it has so much 50 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.840 great information here. And of course, as you know we've 51 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.319 spoken before this interview what great interests we both share 52 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.560 in the world of aviation and in history. But tell 53 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.240 us the power behind this and the motivation for writing 54 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.360 the book. It's so timely for those that are interested 55 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:19.919 in aviation. But let's hear what you have to say. 56 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:20.800 How did it all evolve? 57 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.199 Well, it was partly an interest that I had in 58 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.400 World's Fair since I was very young. I just found 59 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.879 them fascinating and this particular World's Fair was one that 60 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:38.080 was as you earlier reference was particularly forward looking, really 61 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:41.240 the first of the World's Fairs to be so forward looking. 62 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.800 You know, if you think about television series like Star 63 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.800 Trek Jean Roddenberry's Star Trek, or for instance, the animated 64 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:57.520 series The Jetsons, you can see a direct line back 65 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.680 to the nineteen thirty three Chicago World's Fair. And then 66 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.560 of course there's the experimental prototype City of Tomorrow EPCOT 67 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:11.319 that was built by Disney in Florida and so, which 68 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.560 really fascinates me. And so that was part of it. 69 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.680 The other part was the thirties, looking at this period 70 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.680 because the period we generally associate with the road to 71 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:25.480 World War two all that that entails, which is a 72 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:30.079 pretty dark chapter in world history. But there's this moment 73 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.519 sort of just before everything sort of goes wrong, if 74 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:37.480 you will, where that was still out there in the future. 75 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:39.439 You know, no one knew, they didn't know that was 76 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.600 necessarily the case. There certainly was a feeling Hitler had 77 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.920 been in power for a few months at that point, 78 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.759 and there was a feeling that Hitler was going to 79 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.279 have to be confronted in some way. But again, the 80 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.360 idea of going to war that I don't think that 81 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:59.199 was on people's minds at the time, and so there's 82 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.480 that element. And then in terms of aviation, it was 83 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.079 the for me, it was the most logical way to 84 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.279 approach trying to explain the Fair to people because it 85 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.600 was explicitly promoted by the Fair as the main motif. 86 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:19.480 If you look at, for instance, the main promotional poster, 87 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:25.120 it features seaplanes, it has zeppelins, it has blooms ascending 88 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:28.279 to the stratosphere, because they knew as they had already 89 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.439 set up the calendar that they were going to have 90 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.839 events featuring aviation, and these attempts to reach the stratosphere 91 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.319 spaced out over a period of time in the Fairs calendar, 92 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.480 and that was that was going to be the sort 93 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.560 of the common thread that pulled it all together for people, 94 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.519 and it was something that was still sure, It was 95 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:53.600 still a wonder wonder of it all element that I 96 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:57.199 think today we lack. You know, we check in, we go, 97 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:58.920 you know, we go through security, we get on our 98 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.160 plane where you know, we were flying from New York 99 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.839 Chicago exacting much of it, but that we weren't there 100 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.079 quite yet at that point, and so it was very 101 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:10.040 exciting for people. 102 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.079 Well, David, as we go into this particular story here. 103 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:15.519 I just want to bring up a little bit of 104 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.040 a let's go back in the time capsule kind of 105 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.120 thing here. Let's imagine that we're going back and doing 106 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:22.800 a little promo for this particular event, just to put 107 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:24.959 people in the right mindset as we explore with you 108 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.319 the author, some of the great details of how this 109 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.639 came about. So we'll say it this way, folks, come 110 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.240 to the World's Fair in Chicago. A century of progress 111 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.160 made the twenty seventh to the November the first. How 112 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:40.120 about this? Adults fifty cents and children twenty five cents. 113 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.639 But you know, even though that's not a super promo, 114 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:45.720 it still tells a lot. But the picture is worth 115 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:56.160 more than a thousand words. 116 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.079 The million dollar Hall of Science shown here is the 117 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.240 central building of the Cargo's nineteen thirty three World's Fair. 118 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:05.879 Its outstanding feature is the optical Illusion Tower, which gives 119 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.439 the impression of being a real skyscraper, although actually it 120 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.040 is only one hundred feet high. This building also stresses 121 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.600 the modern in architecture. Its main entrance is designed along 122 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.759 modernistic lines, which will focus attention on a center fountain 123 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.000 to be illuminated by reflected light. Here is a replica 124 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.240 of Fort Dearborn, reconstructed from the plans of Captain Whistler, 125 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.600 who originally built it on the site from which modern 126 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:35.160 Chicago grew. This is the Administration Building, another modernistic marble 127 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:37.759 where all business pertaining to the fair will be handled. 128 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:41.680 And now you see the Travel and Transport Building. Its 129 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.199 unique feature is the roof a dome suspended by steel cables. 130 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.079 On June first, nineteen thirty three, the World's Fair will open, 131 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.360 dedicated to a century of progress. 132 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.800 You know, it's just so amazing. I'm looking here inside 133 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.879 the cover of this particular book of yours, and these 134 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.480 posters are just so outstanding. This art deco off the charts. 135 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.959 I just love it. And I'm definitely going to get 136 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.160 a poster like this and put it in my office someday. 137 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.959 I mean, I just love that era. But David, let's 138 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:09.879 talk a little bit more about this. I mean, let's 139 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.240 talk about how this particular fair got started. It's not 140 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:15.279 easy to do a World's Fair. And then later I 141 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:17.879 want to talk a little bit about the connection to astronomy, 142 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.480 because maybe I've said this incorrectly to some of my audience. 143 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.000 When we do the astronomy programs about a certain star 144 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.720 in the heavens and it's connection to this fair. But 145 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.759 talk about how the whole fair got started, who was 146 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:32.000 behind it, how did it get funded, and why was 147 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.080 it so successful? I understand it was what one of 148 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:37.600 the first profitable world's fairs of all time? Am I right? 149 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:43.120 Yes, Well it's interesting because you know the timing we 150 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.679 look back at it, you know, it's happening right in 151 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:48.480 the middle of the depression. These were you know, pretty 152 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.120 rough times to say the least. But it was planned 153 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.120 during the Roaring twenties, when you know, there were times 154 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.519 of plenty, and so that's important to note, you know 155 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.200 that to run I'd rather put on a fair, uh 156 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.799 this size. It took years to put that together. But 157 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.240 what it happened was was that, uh, there was a 158 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:13.240 mixed reception uh in city Hall for having a fair. 159 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.080 They were willing to endorse it, but they weren't really 160 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:21.120 really interested in diverting any funds for it. And the 161 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.240 you know, the sort of the big civic boosters in 162 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:29.279 the city, well connected Chicago's like for instance, Rufus Dawes 163 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.320 and his brother Charles does uh decided that well that 164 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.440 that's how we want to do it. So they decided 165 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.919 that it's going to be strictly a private sector run 166 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:44.519 fair And for those of your listeners who feel that 167 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:47.200 it's better to, you know, let the government government get 168 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:49.360 out of the way and let the private sector do it, 169 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:51.679 I mean, this is one of This is an example 170 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.679 of something that really did work. I mean really that 171 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.120 that held up really well. Now, one of the interesting 172 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.559 things is that that generation of leaders is in Chicago. UH, 173 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:05.480 They're one of their main experiences as adults was the 174 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.279 World War One and World War one. 175 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:08.759 UH. 176 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:11.639 One of the reasons why the United States contribution was 177 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:16.240 so effective was because we were in that era very 178 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:19.600 interested in efficiency. It was something that was the watchword 179 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:23.759 for the time in business and in industry. And they 180 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:29.799 had been involved in purchasing UH materials and oversight for 181 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:35.000 the American Expeditionary Force in France. And they hired this 182 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:40.440 guy named Lennox Lore who was the real can do efficient, 183 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.960 dynamic guy with tremendous energy, who knew exactly were they 184 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.039 were all. The thing about it, they were all on 185 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.840 the same page. You know, you didn't have a lot 186 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.759 Once they decided what they were going to do uh. 187 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.360 They there was not a lot of fall in terms 188 00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.960 of a falling out this disagreement. They were they were 189 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.480 looking towards the same goal and lenox Law was absolutely 190 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:06.320 the right guy to get this done to see it through. Now, 191 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.759 what he did with the Dowses connections both in business 192 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:14.440 and politics and then his own can do nohow from 193 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:17.759 his experience during World War One, was to reach out 194 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:21.200 to private businesses, so for instance, like a ge or 195 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:26.759 a Westinghouse or a Chrysler Corporation Ford and convince them 196 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.600 that what they should do, instead of having their separate 197 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:35.919 promotional pavilions, that they should feature basically their industry and 198 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:40.480 all work together show the best of their industry and 199 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:43.240 the most forward looking light to create. I guess you 200 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:47.559 could say cooperative sort of by industry, and that was 201 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.559 one of the things that made it very successful and 202 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:51.879 very exciting. And it also ties back to what you 203 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:56.559 had mentioned about the way that the fair literally started 204 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.360 with this kind of a publicity stump and a way 205 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:06.279 of showing the power of technology to harness, for instance, 206 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:10.639 light from a star that is thousands of light years away. 207 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:12.440 Well, I'd like to get into that, but I want 208 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.039 to mention to everybody listening. You are listening to the 209 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:18.600 Doctor Sky experience with me, Doctor Sky. We're on America's 210 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:23.240 iconic radio station, Yes Talk Radio seventy seven WABC in 211 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:25.960 New York City and around the world. We're here, of course, 212 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.519 not only on the air, but also on wabcradio dot com, 213 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.759 where you can of course follow us on our podcast 214 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.000 and our blog. Reports here on great subjects like astronomy, space, aviation, 215 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.720 and weather, celebrity guests in the mix, and stories about 216 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.480 American exceptionalism as we continue to talk about truth, justice 217 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.679 in the American way and fitting right into this mold 218 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:51.000 I mean perfectly in my opinion, is author David Hannah, 219 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.600 a brand new book and Broka Nicharist the nineteen thirty 220 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.279 two Chicago World's Fair, The Golden Age of Aviation and 221 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.879 the Rise of Fascism Prometheus Books book. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, 222 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:02.960 you can get just about anywhere, and I encourage you 223 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:05.159 to do that. But let's talk a little bit more. 224 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:06.919 In the time we have here, David, this is just 225 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.720 fascinating as you're bringing us into the enlightenment of how 226 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:12.440 the fair got started. Talk a little bit more. Let's 227 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:16.679 start off with this Italian aviator that I think really 228 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.000 rocks the world and he does something amazing, this individual 229 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:23.159 Italo Balbo. Talk about him and what did he bring 230 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.399 to Chicago, but a little bit more about him, and 231 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.320 also maybe on the dark side, talk a little bit 232 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.120 about the rise of fascism that's starting to evolve in 233 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:34.519 the world, not only with Hitler of Mussolini and the 234 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:35.840 story of Italo Balbo. 235 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.679 Aviation's greatest pete of that year with the mass flight 236 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.519 of an Italian air armide unto the Chicago World's Fair. 237 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.639 General Hitelo Balbo led his fleet of twenty four giant seaplanes, 238 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:52.559 landing in fall us array only sixty one hundred mile 239 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.279 return flight to Orbatello, Italy. He paused to receive a heroes. 240 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:57.399 Welcome from New York City. 241 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.360 Minion's jam on Broadway to cheer a Balbo his nineties 242 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.840 six officers and men perhaps the most effective goodwill ambassadors 243 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:09.159 from Italy during Musolinese and tire reign. 244 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.759 Well it's a little Balbo was part of that. He 245 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.840 was somebody who was a veteran of World War One. 246 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.720 He eventually joined up with the black Shirts in Italy 247 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.200 to the rise of Mussolini, who was the first fascist dictator. 248 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:27.159 The fascists saw their movement essentially as an antidote to 249 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.600 communism in the Bolshviek Revolution had happened in Russia and 250 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.360 it scared a lot of people at the time. And 251 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:36.399 they also they were either impatient or unimpressed with liberal democracy. 252 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.679 They felt that it was weak. They weren't, you know, 253 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.840 they especially in countries like for instance, Italy and Germany 254 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:44.159 where it was a lot of turmoil after World War One. 255 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:48.919 They weren't stable countries like our own, and that has 256 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.399 a lot to do with it. But what happened is 257 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.039 one of his rewards for backing Mussolini was to become 258 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.240 the head of the Aeronautica, the Italian Air Force, and 259 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:05.000 he eventually become a advocate of instead of having like 260 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.399 say the Charles Lindberg, you know, the Lone Eagle, which 261 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.320 is remarkable trans Atlantic crossing in nineteen twenty seven, he 262 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.759 wants to organize large groups of planes to make cruises 263 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:19.399 and he does this to the around the Mediterranean, eventually 264 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.440 across the South Atlantic to Brazil. But the most ambitious 265 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:28.039 was this these two dozen Savoya Marchetti seaplanes and these 266 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.440 giant seaplanes that were going to cross the North Atlantic 267 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:40.039 after sort of jumping over from Iceland and then to 268 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:44.080 Labrador and then go up to Saint Lawrence across the 269 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.159 Great Lakes and then descend on Lake Michigan. Of course 270 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.159 this would take this obviously, couldn't do this all on 271 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:48.639 one shot. 272 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.519 And it's no easy feet by the way, I mean, 273 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.799 this is tremendous in the time we're talking about even 274 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.279 today for that type of airplane, it's not. 275 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:59.080 Really very dangerous. Yeah, it was quite dangerous. And then 276 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:00.320 you know the one I said, the thing of all 277 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.799 of these avias, and I guess you could say that 278 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:07.559 those that anticipate, you know, the space race to a 279 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.679 large degree, they were making this up as they went along, 280 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.679 you know. And but somebody has to that's the thing. 281 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.639 Somebody has to be the pioneer, or we wouldn't benefit 282 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:17.679 with our ability to for instance, like I said, just 283 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.480 you know jet from city, you know, from city to 284 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.559 city without thinking much about it. Somebody had to do 285 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:24.799 this and so and this was at a time, by 286 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.720 the way, it was interesting. It wasn't clear that the 287 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:33.039 airplane landing on hard ground with wheels was going to 288 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:38.039 be the mode. You know, many thought that the seaplane 289 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.840 was a better option, you know, landing on water, and 290 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.360 of course there were the Zeppelins. But anyway, when when 291 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.240 Babbel came, he was just such a sensation. It was 292 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:51.200 a tremendously charismatic guy, and it was the city just 293 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.919 there was this euphoric the reception that he received. People 294 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.559 talking about how beautiful it was seeing these planes land 295 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:02.159 in form precision formation like Michigan on a beautiful summer day. 296 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.200 And he was able to he was he liked people 297 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:09.480 that also helped, right, and so yeah, and then it 298 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.759 felt that And it's interesting because he was a fascist, 299 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.400 and for instance, socialists were at arms, up in arms 300 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.519 about the fact that he's being welcome because they battled 301 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:23.400 in the streets of Italy in the twenties and he 302 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.400 you know, it's interesting because he he was never comfortable. 303 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.160 For instance, when Mussolini started kind of getting close to 304 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.480 Hitler and he warned against it, and he was certainly 305 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:37.480 not willing to parrot the anti Semitic line. He explicitly 306 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:39.119 said that that has no part of that in his 307 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.480 vision of Italian identity. But he was a black shirt. 308 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:44.599 And when we look back and it's interesting. You know, 309 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.920 I've seen, you know, the clips of the planes over 310 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.440 Chicago sky Line and you see all of them information 311 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.599 and you hear the propellers roaring, and we know, of 312 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:54.079 course World War two is coming. In a lot of 313 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:57.440 times when we hear that, we think, oh, gosh, you oh. 314 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.279 I read it between the lines their day. But I 315 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:01.400 read it between the lines that I feel the great 316 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.240 you know, dislike if not, I hate the word hatred 317 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.000 between Mussolini and Bobo as he becomes such a hero 318 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.480 to the people. In other words, the jealousy factor with Mussolini, 319 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.759 who's off the charts, as I read well in the book, 320 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:14.400 Am I correct? 321 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.319 Yeah, it was really hard for Babo to walk the 322 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.079 fine lines because the more success he had then the 323 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.960 more that that caused a rift with he and Mussolini. 324 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.200 Muslim eventually packed him off to an Italian colony in 325 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.680 North Africa, and in some ways it was the best 326 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:31.599 thing that ever happened to Balbol because he was sort 327 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.599 of out of commission as things started to go in 328 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.720 really the really bad direction. But he wound up getting 329 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.240 shot down by friendly fire at the very beginning of 330 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.200 the war in North Africa. But he really did he 331 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:48.559 made He was really quite quite a characters. But it's 332 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:50.759 controversial even today in Chicago. You know, I've talked to 333 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.359 people there's a street really quite quite a nice street 334 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:58.359 that leads down to the lake, and they've talked about, well, 335 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.839 should we change it since Balbo Drive? You know, should 336 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.799 we change it because the fashion? It seems that at 337 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.400 the time, And I think even to a degree today, 338 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:14.319 I think Chicagoans differentiate between him and Mussolini, and I 339 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:16.960 think they'll probably I would be surprised if, say what 340 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.599 to change that street name, but of course is up 341 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:19.279 to Chicago and. 342 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.640 It's filling it up absolutely, and now what they're tearing 343 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.799 it down. Of many statues across the country, I mean, 344 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.319 this is something that I'm sure is on people's minds 345 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.799 that are very sensitive to things like this. You know, 346 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.279 this is quite fascinating, David as we talk about this. 347 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.240 But what I wanted to shift ears on is something 348 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.559 from the world of astronomy, which is even more to me, 349 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.160 I don't know, just so amazing. I read about this 350 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.559 a long time ago. Let's go back, Dadeline May twenty seventh, 351 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.039 nineteen thirty three. A telescope is settl along the shores 352 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.519 of Lake Michigan to open up the World's Fair and 353 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.759 in tribute to the star which we all know in 354 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.279 the world of astronomy is Arcturist, This orange red super 355 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.200 giant star obviously a distance now of about forty light 356 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:02.240 years away, Simbab, is that the star light that left 357 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.799 in eighteen ninety three, the last of the great Fairs? 358 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:07.640 This star light opened up the World's Fair. I want 359 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.319 to hear more about this because I don't know much 360 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:13.759 about it, but I'm fascinated about it. Very much accurate. Correct, 361 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:14.440 that's what they did. 362 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.240 Yeah, that's about That's about right. May twenty seventh was 363 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.920 opening day and they had a big crowd. But then 364 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.200 at night, once it started to get dark, closer towards 365 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.079 I guess getting on towards nine, they had a planned 366 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.960 event and the event was to capture the light from 367 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:38.480 Arcturists and ge and Westinghouse had collaborated with some of 368 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:42.359 the top university research scientists who were working in astronomy 369 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:47.400 and also in the field of electronics. And one of 370 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:49.799 the things that was also interesting about it was that 371 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:54.960 forty years you just mentioned, because everybody who would have 372 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.880 been of a certain age at that time in Chicago 373 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:02.160 would have remembered at forty years frier had been the 374 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.039 famous eighteen ninety three Chicago World's Fair, the White City. 375 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:09.960 And so the idea that this light that was traveling 376 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.240 towards Earth took forty years to reach us had been 377 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:18.559 generated by this giant red orange star on the you know, 378 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.640 the sort of the halo, the milky way, you know, 379 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.079 they timed that that was something that they had promoted, 380 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.079 that there's a forty years as you said, and so 381 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.680 that it's you know, it's it's connecting back to the 382 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.440 city's own heritage with its first fair. 383 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:36.759 Uh. 384 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.519 And so they harnessed the light and then these photo 385 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.640 electric cells essentially captured the light and they used it 386 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:48.039 to then essentially light up the what was called the 387 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:50.880 what was it was this fountain, They called it the lagoon, 388 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.960 but it was it was actually it's it's like a 389 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.480 little sort of arm of the lake and Northerly Aisle 390 00:21:55.519 --> 00:22:01.720 and the lakefront. And they had this magnificent rainbow colored 391 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:06.400 light show that would that started up, which people loved. 392 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:09.960 And it's interesting because if you go to Epcot every evening, 393 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.680 they have in this central pool the same type of 394 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:20.519 technicolor uh light show. Walt Disney had visited the nineteen 395 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:23.720 thirty three Chicago World's Fair and was very interested in 396 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.279 a lot of both the scientific futuristic exhibits and then 397 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:30.759 also the sort of the Midway, you know, the you know, 398 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.960 the there was actually a mock Belgian town and so forth, 399 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:39.000 and so anyway, there's a direct connection. But then it 400 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.559 lit it up and people just were thrilled by it. 401 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.119