1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the deep dive. Today, we are strapping in 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,759 for well, the ultimate existential. 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,559 Speaker 2: Road trip, that's a good way to put it. 4 00:00:07,599 --> 00:00:10,439 Speaker 1: We're not just, you know, debating a philosophical question from 5 00:00:10,439 --> 00:00:14,439 an armchair. We are diving headfirst into an experiment that 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,359 claims to have physically demonstrated what could be the greatest 7 00:00:18,399 --> 00:00:19,839 secret of our existence. 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,839 Speaker 2: Indeed, we are confronting the idea that everything you feel, 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,879 everything you touch, and everything you believe is real is 10 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:30,839 fundamentally a fabrication, a program, a program running on a 11 00:00:30,839 --> 00:00:35,439 computer system so far beyond our comprehension it's almost laughable. 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: The hook is just it, it's undeniable. What if the 13 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:42,799 entire physical world, the laws of motion, gravity, the very 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,479 architecture of time, is nothing more than code. 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: And then what if someone says they've found a way 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:48,600 to see it exactly. 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,359 Speaker 1: An independent researcher, Danny Gaylor claims he has found a repeatable, 18 00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:55,960 observable mechanism that allows human consciousness to look past the 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,039 rendering layer. 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: That's the graphics card, so to speed. 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: And see the actual source code of the reality. 22 00:01:01,039 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 2: That is the radical claim we're dissecting today, and we're 23 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,719 pulling our source material from some fascinating excerpts from the 24 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:09,719 YouTube channel Eric case Swanson documentaries. 25 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: Galor asserts this isn't science fiction anymore. He's saying, it 26 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,159 is a claimed observable phenomenon, and the methodology is it's 27 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:19,159 very precise. 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: It is. It involves ingesting a powerful, naturally occurring psychedelic 29 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,079 dimethyl trip demean. 30 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: DMT, and then, while under its influence, projecting a very 31 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:30,519 specific kind of. 32 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,359 Speaker 2: Light, a difracted laser, onto a matt's surface. The claim, 33 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:36,879 and it's a wild one, is that what appears is 34 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,959 a dynamic, self executing code of the universe. 35 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,079 Speaker 1: So our mission in this deep dive is to perform 36 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,959 a kind of surgical analysis of these claims. 37 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,359 Speaker 2: Right, we have to understand the ancient philosophical context that 38 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,200 has led us here, because this idea isn't new. 39 00:01:50,799 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Not at all. And then we have to examine the 40 00:01:53,079 --> 00:01:57,840 astonishing subjective experiences shared by the participants, and. 41 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,799 Speaker 2: Maybe most importantly, we have to pressure test the massive 42 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,439 scientific and logical hurdles. I mean, how do you prove 43 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,280 reality is digital, especially when the required catalyst is chemically induced? 44 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,719 Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. We're diving into a topic that 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,960 asks what is the true nature of reality? And can 46 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,400 we actually force the operating system of the cosmos to 47 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:19,960 show us its command line. 48 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,479 Speaker 2: It's a fascinating synthesis, isn't it. It blends the most profound, 49 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,719 ancient questions of being with some highly controversial, you know, 50 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,639 cutting edge independent research. 51 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,479 Speaker 1: So to give it the rigorous treatment it deserves, we 52 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,639 need to move beyond just saying wow or no way. 53 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: Exactly, we have to truly understand the architecture of the 54 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:39,719 idea itself. 55 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: To truly grasp the audacity of Danny Gahler's experiment, I mean, 56 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,520 he's essentially trying to find a physical glitch in the matrix, 57 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,599 we have to establish the intellectual foundation for sure. 58 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: The idea of a false reality didn't start with Keanu Reeves. 59 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: Not by a long shot. It's as old as civilization itself. 60 00:02:55,719 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: Precisely, the tension between appearance and reality, that's the engine philosophy. 61 00:03:01,159 --> 00:03:04,639 Millenniago Plato laid the groundwork with his famous allegory of 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:05,360 the Cave. 63 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,159 Speaker 1: And it remains just startlingly relevant today. 64 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 2: It really does. 65 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: You know. The classic setup, prisoners chained since birth, facing 66 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,039 a wall they can't turn. 67 00:03:13,879 --> 00:03:16,479 Speaker 2: Their heads and behind them. There's a fire and people 68 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,479 are walking past it holding up objects. 69 00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: So all the prisoners see are the shadows of those 70 00:03:21,719 --> 00:03:23,680 objects cast on the wall in front of them. 71 00:03:23,879 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: And to these prisoners, those two dimensional shadows, that is reality. 72 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,560 It's the only reality they've ever known. They name the shadows, 73 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:32,919 they track their movements. 74 00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:35,759 Speaker 1: They believe the shadows are fundamental. It'd probably have a 75 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:37,840 whole science based on shadow behavior. 76 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: And this captures that core existential dread. 77 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: Right. 78 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: What if our three dimensional sensory reality. What if it's 79 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:48,479 just the shadow of a much higher dimensional true reality. 80 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: What if we are all just mistaking a projection for 81 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:51,800 the fundamental truth? 82 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:55,879 Speaker 2: That concept echoes globally and across vast stretches of time. 83 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:57,960 It's not just a Western idea. No. 84 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: If you look to ancient China, there's the fame story 85 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:02,000 of the philosopher Guangschi. 86 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: The butterfly dream exactly. Yeah. 87 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:07,639 Speaker 1: Wan Shei woke up one day after this incredibly vivid 88 00:04:07,719 --> 00:04:11,319 dream where he was a carefree butterfly just fluttering among 89 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,400 the flowers. 90 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: And the moment of waking was confusing for him, deeply confusing. 91 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: He had to ask himself, am I now a man 92 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:19,839 who had just dreamed you as a butterfly? 93 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,639 Speaker 2: Or am I a butterfly right now? Dreaming that I'm 94 00:04:23,639 --> 00:04:24,000 a man? 95 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,959 Speaker 1: And a distinction just collapses. It instantly challenges the certainty 96 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,720 of your own identity of external reality based solely on 97 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:33,959 what your senses are telling you. 98 00:04:34,199 --> 00:04:36,399 Speaker 2: And as we move into the modern era, you know, 99 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:42,399 post science revolution, that philosophical question gets a technological upgrade. 100 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: It transitions into the brain in a vat thought experiment. 101 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 2: This is the secular version of Plato's cave. You don't 102 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,160 need shadows or mystical dreams anymore. 103 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Right, we just ask, Yeah, what if your brain was 104 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,279 carefully removed, placed in a life support VAT and hooked 105 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:56,680 up to a. 106 00:04:56,639 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: Supercomputer, and that computer is feeding it electrical signals perfectly 107 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,040 simulating all the sensations of living a human life, the 108 00:05:04,079 --> 00:05:06,360 taste of coffee, the feeling of love, the pain of 109 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,079 a stub toe. 110 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: You would have absolutely no way of knowing the difference. 111 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: It's the exact technological premise for the matrix, but. 112 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: The modern simulation hypothesis as explored by contemporary thinkers like 113 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,959 Nick Bostrom, it really moves this beyond just a fun 114 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:20,759 thought experiment. 115 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: This is where it gets really compelling, even for people 116 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,120 in the hard sciences. It moves into the realm of 117 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,759 probability and statistics. 118 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: Bostrom's argument reframes the question entirely. It doesn't ask is 119 00:05:31,519 --> 00:05:32,879 it possible we're simulated? 120 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:37,519 Speaker 2: It asks statistically, are we likely to be simulated? Which 121 00:05:37,519 --> 00:05:38,560 is a very different question. 122 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: And to understand that, you have to get your head 123 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,120 around Bostrom's trilemma. It posits three propositions, and he argues 124 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,920 that at least one of them must be true. 125 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: That's right. So the three propositions are, first, that the 126 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,439 human species is very likely to go extinct before we 127 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,160 ever reach what he calls a post human stage. 128 00:05:57,079 --> 00:06:01,199 Speaker 1: A stage where we could run vast complex computer simulations 129 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:02,480 of our ancestors. 130 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: The second proposition is that any post human civilization that 131 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:08,639 does arise is almost certain not to run a significant 132 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,800 number of these ancestor simulations. Maybe they find it unethical 133 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:12,879 or they're just not interested. 134 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: And then there's the third option, the one that keeps 135 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,199 people up at. 136 00:06:16,199 --> 00:06:20,399 Speaker 2: Night, the one that drives simulation theory proponents, that we 137 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:23,680 are almost certainly living in a computer simulation, and if. 138 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: You look at the track record of our own technological advancement. 139 00:06:26,879 --> 00:06:31,560 I mean, proponents argue that options one and two seem 140 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:32,279 pretty unlikely. 141 00:06:32,399 --> 00:06:35,439 Speaker 2: They do. We're constantly seeking more computing power, and the 142 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,519 motivation to explore our own past through simulations seems almost 143 00:06:39,519 --> 00:06:43,720 inherent to scientific curiosity. We do it already with climate models, 144 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:45,079 with economic models. 145 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,439 Speaker 1: We're always trying to simulate things. 146 00:06:46,519 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 2: So if future civilizations can run simulations, and they do 147 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,879 run simulations, and they don't just run one or two, 148 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,920 they run billions upon billions. 149 00:06:54,519 --> 00:06:56,959 Speaker 1: Of them, then we get into the really mind bending part. 150 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:03,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, nested simulations exactly. Imagine a true foundational base reality. 151 00:07:03,199 --> 00:07:04,199 Let's call it reality A. 152 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: The real deal, the real deal. 153 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:09,519 Speaker 2: Civilization A in that reality eventually develops the power to 154 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,879 run a massive simulation of its own past. That's reality B. 155 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:14,839 Speaker 1: Okay, so we have a simulation running. 156 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 2: But then civilization B inside the simulation evolves, it gains 157 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:22,439 post human power, and it creates its own simulation Reality 158 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:23,240 C and so. 159 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: On, simulated universes all the way down. 160 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: All the way down. This means there's only one true 161 00:07:29,519 --> 00:07:34,040 foundational reality A, but there could be quintillions of simulated 162 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,199 realities BCD and so on, all nested within. 163 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: So if you are an observer a consciousness just randomly 164 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,800 placed into any one of these realities. 165 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:47,279 Speaker 2: The probability of you landing in that single foundational reality 166 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,439 A is infinitesimally small. It's one in a billion a trillion. 167 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,519 Speaker 1: Who knows the probability of landing in one of the 168 00:07:54,519 --> 00:07:59,360 billions of simulated realities is stistically speaking, near certainty. 169 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: Which is why you hear that often quoted estimate that 170 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,240 there's at least a fifty to fifty chance, or maybe 171 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:05,120 much much higher, that we are simulated. 172 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,279 Speaker 1: It moves the conversation from the abstract dread of what 173 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:12,079 if to the statistical argument of we probably are. 174 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: But this is where Danny Gohler introduces his crucial conceptual flip. 175 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:18,600 He calls it the matrix in reverse. 176 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,639 Speaker 1: This distinction is absolutely critical to understanding the motivation behind 177 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:23,240 his experiment. 178 00:08:23,439 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: It is because in science fiction, like the matrix, the 179 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,720 computational world, the matrix itself is the. 180 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:31,399 Speaker 1: Fake one, right, It's the prison, and the goal is 181 00:08:31,439 --> 00:08:33,679 to break free, to get back to the real physical 182 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:34,480 world of Zion. 183 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,919 Speaker 2: Goler sees it the other way around. He asserts that 184 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,000 the computational world is the larger, true reality. 185 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: So the code is the real thing. 186 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: The fundamental constituents of reality, he believes, are actually computational, 187 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:51,360 their information, our physical existence, what we call real is 188 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,639 just a tiny subset, a localized. 189 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,159 Speaker 1: High resolution program, running within a much larger foundational computational space. 190 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: So, in his his we aren't trapped in a lie. 191 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:05,639 We're simply living in a subreality, a smaller program within 192 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,200 a vastly more fundamental digital reality. 193 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: And his research stems not from the premise of thinking 194 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,919 maybe we are, but from a place of certainty. He 195 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,440 talked about absolute knowing. 196 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 2: He's not trying to prove if we're in a simulation. 197 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,759 He's trying to find the doorway into that larger informational domain. 198 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:25,759 Speaker 1: Okay, so, if reality is computational and we are operating 199 00:09:25,799 --> 00:09:29,120 in a subprogram, how does a human being constrained by 200 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,120 our own laws of physics and chemistry find the entrance 201 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:33,320 to the operating system. 202 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:36,639 Speaker 2: Well, Gohler's research focuses intensely on that very question, the 203 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,919 connection between consciousness and matter. 204 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: He started with a really profound question about his own 205 00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:45,039 subjective experiences, particularly with psychedelics. 206 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 2: Right, He asked, is the psychedelic space real or not? 207 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:51,759 Speaker 1: And He didn't mean, did I have a hallucination? That's 208 00:09:51,759 --> 00:09:52,519 a different question. 209 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: No, he meant, does that other domain, the one you 210 00:09:55,919 --> 00:09:58,799 perceive when chemically altered, does it have its own rules, 211 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,399 its own geometry as it exists outside of my brain 212 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:03,720 even when I'm not actively experiencing it. 213 00:10:03,879 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: If that space is real and independent, he reasoned, it 214 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,399 must operate by rules. 215 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: And since he experiences this other space with his eyes, 216 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,000 he logically concluded that light must somehow be involved in 217 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:16,759 accessing it. 218 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,039 Speaker 1: The challenge then became finding the precise chemical and optical 219 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,360 key to unlock that door. 220 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,639 Speaker 2: And that key, he believes, is demethyl triptamine, or DMT, 221 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:29,279 a molecule that has fascinated science for decades. 222 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: DMT is chemically simple, but just fascinating because it's a 223 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,279 neuromodulator our own bodies make naturally. 224 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:38,879 Speaker 2: That's the part that's so intriguing. It's metabolic function in 225 00:10:38,879 --> 00:10:41,879 the human brain isn't fully understood yet, but the subjective 226 00:10:41,919 --> 00:10:45,159 experience when you ingest it at high doses is often 227 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,679 described as perceiving more of what reality. 228 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,799 Speaker 1: Is like more channels open up. 229 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's even speculation way out on the fringes 230 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,080 that it might be responsible for perception itself well. 231 00:10:56,159 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: Gives this molecule such you know, gravitational weight, even for 232 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,840 mainstream scientists, is the evidence showing its fundamental biological. 233 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,039 Speaker 2: Role, And for that we have to look at the 234 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,759 work of doctor John Deane, who conducted some really important 235 00:11:08,799 --> 00:11:10,080 research involving rats. 236 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,879 Speaker 1: This finding is what makes the claim about DMT being 237 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:17,320 fundamental so much harder to just dismiss out at hand. 238 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,799 Speaker 2: It is doctor Dean discovered that rats have comparable amounts 239 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:25,039 of DMT in their intracranial liquid the serabrospinal fluid to 240 00:11:25,159 --> 00:11:27,559 other major known neurotransmitters. 241 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: We're talking about dopamine and serotonin. 242 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: The big ones during waking hours. 243 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Think about that for a moment. Dopamine and serotonin are 244 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:40,080 the major players. They dictate mood, movement reward, essentially a 245 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,440 huge chunk of our baseline experience in the world. 246 00:11:42,759 --> 00:11:45,799 Speaker 2: And to find that DMT, the chemical that causes the 247 00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:49,679 most profound alteration of consciousness known to man, is present 248 00:11:49,799 --> 00:11:51,519 in the same average amount. 249 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,639 Speaker 1: It suggests it plays a fundamental, active, and essential role 250 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,039 in our day to day baseline perception, not just. 251 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: As a transient, occasional hallucinogen. It implies DMT is part 252 00:12:02,159 --> 00:12:04,320 of the very architecture of perception itself. 253 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,279 Speaker 1: That is a staggering realization. If DMT is an active 254 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,360 ingredient in the recipe of consciousness, it's logical to believe 255 00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:16,639 that manipulating its concentration could momentarily lift the hood on 256 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:17,639 our operating system. 257 00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:20,279 Speaker 2: Of course, we have to provide some important context here. 258 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:25,000 DMT is a potent hallucinogen, a psychedelic right, and in. 259 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:27,759 Speaker 1: The United States it is classified as a schedule eye 260 00:12:27,799 --> 00:12:29,159 controlled substance. 261 00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:30,919 Speaker 2: Which means it's considered to have a high potential for 262 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,399 abuse and no currently accepted medical use. That designation obviously 263 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:40,279 creates immense logistical and legal hurdles for mainstream, university led research. 264 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:44,759 Speaker 1: Despite that classification, it is the subject of current scientific studies. 265 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,919 People are looking at its rapid acting and profound therapeutic 266 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,399 benefits for treating complex conditions like anxiety and depression. 267 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,039 Speaker 2: And its history is of course far far older than 268 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,240 modern pharmacology. 269 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: Its most famous and traditional application is as the psychoactive 270 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,080 ingredient in aahuasca, the South American. 271 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: Brew, traditionally administered by shamans or currinderos. This practice has 272 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,799 been used for spiritual visions and healing for thousands of years. 273 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,279 Speaker 1: And the users consistently report traveling to other realms and 274 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,480 encountering highly structured entities or beings. 275 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: And these ancient consistent reports of entering structured non physical 276 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,159 realms were the exact data points that solidified goler hypothesis. 277 00:13:27,279 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: Right, if this space is real, it must be accessible 278 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:32,320 through a precise physical means. 279 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 2: And that means for him, it has to involve light 280 00:13:34,279 --> 00:13:37,360 and geometry. This belief led directly to the development of 281 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:38,960 the laser experiment protocol. 282 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: So now we move to the practical side, the repeatable 283 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,279 experiment that Guller claims reveals the code. The protocol is 284 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,080 highly specific, almost almost ritualistic in its precise technical requirements. 285 00:13:52,159 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: The required physical components are simple, but they have to 286 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,519 be exact. You have the subject, the DMT, and the 287 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:58,320 laser light. 288 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,519 Speaker 1: And crucially, the light must be a diffracted laser projected onto. 289 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: A surface, and the surface itself is important. It needs 290 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:09,440 to be extremely matt a non to reflective material. In 291 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:12,360 some of the documented instances they used foam. 292 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: The location of the testing is also pretty interesting. Gohler 293 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,600 and his partner Carter, they frequently conduct these experiments in 294 00:14:19,639 --> 00:14:21,480 a place called Falcon Space. 295 00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: Which is in New Jersey laboratory that focuses on rather 296 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,440 unconventional research, specifically alternative propulsion methods, and. 297 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: The recorded experiments detailed in the source material were set 298 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:32,919 up inside a far Day cage. 299 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,519 Speaker 2: Now that is a detail that cannot be dismissed as 300 00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:38,519 just a coincidence. A far Day cage is an enclosure 301 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,440 used to block electromagnetic fields. 302 00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:43,559 Speaker 1: It's a great setup for isolating electrical signals and interference. 303 00:14:43,879 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: And think about the implication of that. If the phenomenon 304 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:50,320 were purely a hallucination, just something happening inside your brain, 305 00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:53,480 then electrical interference would be irrelevant. 306 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:58,039 Speaker 1: But if the code is genuinely a computational signal from 307 00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:03,879 a higher reality that might be susceptible to local electromagnetic 308 00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:07,200 noise or static from our own reality. 309 00:15:06,799 --> 00:15:09,639 Speaker 2: Then the Faraday cage becomes a crucial tool for achieving 310 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,600 visual clarity. It supports the idea that the code is 311 00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:16,559 an objective external signal being perceived, not an internal one 312 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,399 being generated. 313 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,399 Speaker 1: So once the subject ingests the DMT and looks at 314 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,879 the difracted light on the mass surface within this isolated environment, 315 00:15:25,559 --> 00:15:26,720 What exactly do they see? 316 00:15:26,879 --> 00:15:29,559 Speaker 2: Gola refers to it as glimpsing the code of reality, 317 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,120 and the. 318 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: Descriptions are astonishingly consistent. It's reported as a self executing 319 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:35,159 code of some sort. 320 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: It's very digital in nature and manifests as an infinite 321 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,000 clock that runs these weird symbols in it. 322 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: Let's focus on that term infinite clock. That suggests not 323 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,440 just static text on a screen. 324 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: No it suggests a dynamic running process, a stream of 325 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,519 active information perpetually processing or calculating something, perhaps. 326 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Running the physics engine of our local reality. 327 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: And what bolsters Golar's confidence that this phenomenon is fundamental 328 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:04,039 rather than just personal psychological noise is its consistency and independence. 329 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,799 Speaker 1: He emphasizes that the code doesn't really respond to anything 330 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:09,360 that people do. 331 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: It doesn't care about the conditions of your mind, whether 332 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,159 you're calm or anxious. It doesn't care about the temperature, 333 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:17,200 the music playing specific frequencies, or even if. 334 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: You introduce external magnetic fields. 335 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: It's just doing what it's doing. 336 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: This reported independence from the viewer's psychological or immediate physical 337 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,720 state is key. 338 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,559 Speaker 2: It is it suggests an objective structure that exists regardless 339 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,120 of the observer's expectations or any external noise, much like 340 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,720 observing the ticking of a running computer server. It's just there. 341 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: Now, let's talk about this specific technique required to view 342 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,759 this code, because it's counterintuitive. You can't just stare at 343 00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:45,080 the light. 344 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:47,039 Speaker 2: No, you have to diffuse your focus. 345 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: And Goller uses this excellent analogy from the nineteen nineties, 346 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:52,360 the autostereogram. 347 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:55,879 Speaker 2: The magic eye posters exactly. 348 00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: To see that hidden three dimensional image inside the two 349 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,200 dimensional pattern, you had to look through the image, past 350 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:04,640 the lines, sort of blurring your focus until the death 351 00:17:04,759 --> 00:17:05,799 just resolves itself. 352 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 2: That diffusion of focus is the exact physical technique required here. 353 00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,559 Speaker 1: Subjects have to look into the field past the surface 354 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,720 of the phone, letting their attention sort of convert closer. 355 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,279 They're trying to resolve these tiny moving things in that 356 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,039 glistening field that are initially almost microscopic. 357 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,799 Speaker 2: One participant, a guy named Tom, described the sheer phenomenal 358 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,960 depth he experienced. He said it was like looking into 359 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,920 a giant room or a window, a window at something 360 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,839 far far away. The light isn't just a reflection on 361 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,240 the surface, it's a projection onto a canvas that creates 362 00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:40,839 a window into a deeper space. 363 00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:43,599 Speaker 1: So the theory then is that the DMT removes the 364 00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:48,279 brain's filter, allowing the consciousness to perceive this computational layer, and. 365 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,759 Speaker 2: The diffracted laser provides the necessary visual field. It might 366 00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,440 be acting as a lens or a pointer to where 367 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:55,359 the rendering is thin. 368 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: Without the DMT, you just see blurry speckles of light, but. 369 00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:03,079 Speaker 2: With the DMT, the brain processes those light speckles as 370 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:04,960 structured informational depth. 371 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: We should also stress why the diffraction is likely important here. 372 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, diffraction means the light is spread out into 373 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,440 a pattern. It breaks up that focused beam. 374 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: So if reality operates like a low resolution digital screen shining, 375 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,200 a perfectly focused laser might just hit one pixel. 376 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,279 Speaker 2: But a diffracted laser spreads its energy across a vast 377 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,359 array of those pixels. It forces the simulation engine to 378 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,440 process a complex, structured visual input across a broad field. 379 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,279 Speaker 1: Perhaps exploding the edge cases of its own rendering algorithm. 380 00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 2: Precisely, you're forcing it to work in a way it 381 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,119 wasn't designed for. 382 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: Okay, let's delve into the actual content of this alleged 383 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,359 source code. If we're looking at the digital language of existence, 384 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:49,440 what characters are participants reporting. 385 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: Well, they report seeing millions of characters. It's an overwhelming 386 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:53,720 density of information. 387 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,559 Speaker 1: And the symbols themselves fall into two major categories. 388 00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: That's right, you have recognizable geometries and you have these 389 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:03,160 abstract informational characters that apparently resemble human language. 390 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: For the language characters, the most common descriptions that they 391 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:07,440 look like Hebrew letters. 392 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: Specific phrases or configurations are mentioned, things like kim shenray 393 00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:12,240 a liif, but. 394 00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: Subjects also say they look like Japanese or Chinese characters. 395 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,400 The point is a clear structured alphabet, not just random, 396 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,160 static or swirling colors. 397 00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:24,839 Speaker 2: This is a crucial point that demands a little clarity. 398 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,839 If we look at a phrase like kim shehn real lift, 399 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,960 it's a phonetic approximation of Hebrew letters, letters often associated 400 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,559 with kabbalistic or mystical teachings, but. 401 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:38,559 Speaker 1: It's not a direct recognized sequence of Hebrew words in 402 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,759 modern usage. 403 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: So this implies one of two possibilities. Either the subjects 404 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:47,359 are culturally interpreting complex structured visual noise through the lens 405 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,599 of esoteric knowledge they already possess, or. 406 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: The simulation's language being fundamental resonates with ancient linguistic and 407 00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:55,279 spiritual concepts for. 408 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: A reason, right, Whether the letters are truly Hebrew or 409 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,559 just structurally similar is maybe less important than the consistency 410 00:20:01,599 --> 00:20:06,359 of reporting structured, dynamic texts a language, rather than the amorphous, 411 00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:11,079 swirling colors typical of so many other hallucinatory experiences. The 412 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,119 brain is clearly processing information that looks informational. 413 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: And beyond the language. Participants consistently report seeing highly organized 414 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,440 geometries that present themselves. 415 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,079 Speaker 2: These include common platonic solids like tetrahedrons, and more complex 416 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,200 structures like a field of bucket balls. 417 00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: You mean those geodesic cage like molecular structures. 418 00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 2: Exactly, And these geometries are vital to the verification process 419 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:36,839 that Danny and Carter use. 420 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: They function as markers. 421 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,599 Speaker 2: They do since the subjects are chemically altered. The researchers 422 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,400 attempt to move the subjective experience toward objective verification by 423 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,960 triangulating reports on these specific, recognizable visual elements. 424 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: So they can ask questions in real time. 425 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: Right, questions like are you seeing this tetrahedron in this 426 00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:58,079 specific position over here? Yes? Okay? Can you see the 427 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,720 distinct characters running across the field right next to it. 428 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: Yes, matching the characters in geometries allows them to establish 429 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,039 a consistency to argue that the subjects are witnessing the 430 00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:11,880 same objective, externally generated structure rather. 431 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,519 Speaker 2: Than just a unique individual psychological projection. 432 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: That effort to establish objective verification is what elevates this 433 00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:20,559 from simple anecdote. 434 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: Bigoehler is very upfront about the limitations. It is not 435 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,920 a guaranteed success for every subject. 436 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,319 Speaker 1: No, he manages expectations. He notes that the results very 437 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:31,720 pretty significantly. 438 00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 2: Approximately six out of ten subjects see. 439 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,279 Speaker 1: The code the first time, and then another three out 440 00:21:36,279 --> 00:21:37,839 of ten see it on their second. 441 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,799 Speaker 2: Or third try, which leaves one out of ten who 442 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,079 can never see it. 443 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: And we see that in the documentary, Mark one of 444 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,240 the first subjects he didn't see it during his initial attempt. 445 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: And this variable success rate brings us to the much 446 00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:53,079 needed critical corner, embodied perfectly by one of the participants, 447 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,920 a guy named Jay. 448 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: He provided the necessary pressure test. He raised all the 449 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,640 natural skeptical counter arguments you'd expect. 450 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 2: Jay's hesitation was essential for the source material's credibility. He 451 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,599 flat out questioned if he was just tripping and seeing 452 00:22:06,599 --> 00:22:10,599 shapes purely due to the chemical stimulus and his own expectation. 453 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: Or if the phenomenon was genuinely happening out there independent 454 00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:15,799 of his mind. 455 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: He distilled the scientific dilemma down to its absolute core. 456 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: Is a phenomenal depth described by Tom merely an optical 457 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,599 illusion augmented by the DMT? Or is it just a 458 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,960 reflection of a light being shown in my eyes? 459 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,799 Speaker 2: It's the difference between a neurological artifact and a physical 460 00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:34,880 window into reality's structure. 461 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 1: This internal versus external debate is really the Gordian Knot 462 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:39,880 of psychedelic science. 463 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,799 Speaker 2: It is you have to ask, if three thousand people 464 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:47,039 see the exact same purple unicorn, is that objective proof 465 00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:48,400 of a unicorn's existence? 466 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: Or is this subjective proof of a shared neurological response 467 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,920 to the same chemical trigger. 468 00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:55,079 Speaker 2: And that is the point we have to debate. Even 469 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,000 if the reported structures, the Hebrew letters, the bucket balls 470 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,319 are consistent across three thousand people, if they're all experiencing 471 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,319 a powerful chemical filter being removed, isn't that still scientifically 472 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,240 a collective hallucination. 473 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,599 Speaker 1: Where the common structure just reflects the underlying shared architecture 474 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,000 of the human brain when it's exposed to DMT. 475 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,839 Speaker 2: It's a compelling counterpoint. However, the complexity and the structure 476 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,599 reported here are highly specific. 477 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:21,599 Speaker 1: It's not just a vague feeling or a color. 478 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,799 Speaker 2: No, a typical mass hallucination might involve shared emotional states 479 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,599 or you know, vague shapes. The reporting of consistent self 480 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,079 executing characters that resemble language and specific geometric solids like 481 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,880 tecahedrons and bucket balls, that suggests something else. 482 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:43,559 Speaker 1: It suggests either an unbelievably complex shared operating system of 483 00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:45,400 the subconscious. 484 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,759 Speaker 2: Or an external informational structure that's being perceived. If it 485 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:51,240 were truly internal, you have to wonder why would the 486 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:56,119 chemical consistently generate structured, external informational code rather than, say, 487 00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:59,000 deeply personal memories or abstract emotions. 488 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: That's the monumental question, isn't it. It forces us to 489 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,400 investigate what DMT is truly revealing. 490 00:24:04,039 --> 00:24:06,759 Speaker 2: Because if the structure is internal, we've stumbled upon the 491 00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:08,279 language of the subconscious, and. 492 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: If the structure is external, we've found the matrix. 493 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: And either answer fundamentally changes our understanding of reality. 494 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: If seeing the source code is extraordinary, The next claim 495 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,920 moves this experiment into the well, the truly unbelievable realm. 496 00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: We have to discuss the reported occasional appearance of intelligent 497 00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:29,039 entities within the diffracted light field. 498 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: Gohler takes this possibility so seriously that he actually pre 499 00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:37,279 briefs participants. He tells them there's a non zero percent 500 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,599 chance that an entity will appear in the. 501 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: Light itself, and he provides a theoretical mechanism for this 502 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:45,319 appearance as suggesting it's actually accidental. 503 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: Accidental. 504 00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 2: How So, if the light is truly shining into the 505 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,880 larger computational domating the operating system, it might be shining 506 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,119 into what he calls these entities office or their house. 507 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,759 Speaker 1: So we're like shining a flashlight into their living room. 508 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: That's the idea. He theorizes that when these entities notice 509 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,319 this disruptive beam of light, they show interest, suggesting awareness 510 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,400 and maybe even curiosity about the sudden spotlight. 511 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: Gohler himself claimed he saw Hebrew letters appearing, and his 512 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:16,960 takeaway was visceral. He said, there's definitely someone in there, 513 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,119 someone lives in here. This is someone's home. 514 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:22,559 Speaker 2: This immediately shifts the stakes. I mean, if there are 515 00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:27,759 entities the simulation isn't just an unattended deterministic computer program. 516 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: No, it's actively managed or occupied, or at least monitored 517 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,400 by intelligent life forms residing in the computational reality that. 518 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,599 Speaker 2: Surrounds us, and this connects directly to broader, highly influential 519 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,799 psychedelic reports. The late psychedelic philosopher Terrence McKenna famously describe 520 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,400 encountering the machinelves. 521 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,599 Speaker 1: Right and McKenna described these entities as self transforming elf 522 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,720 machines which were constructed not of biological matter, but of 523 00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:57,799 syntax driving light, which aligns perfectly with the idea of 524 00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:01,920 intelligent beings existing fundamentally with than a computational or digital realm, 525 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,559 beings made of information and language. 526 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: Goler takes the identification of these beings even further. While 527 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,599 many people report encountering various beings in the DMT space, 528 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:16,839 Gohler describes specific species or classifications he believes he's encountered. 529 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,039 He details the insectoids, and he claims to understand them 530 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:25,400 as the specific species are responsible for weaving our physical reality. 531 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: So they're the programmers, the developers. 532 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: It suggests a conscious, intelligent agency in the architecture of 533 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,039 our existence. Using the very code he sees to render 534 00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,039 our world. He posits that there are many other species, 535 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,079 but the insectoids appear to be the system administrators. 536 00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: And this realization that reality is managed came not just 537 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,680 from observation, but from a deeply personal, pivotal vision that 538 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:52,680 moved Goler from intellectual curiosity to absolute knowing. 539 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: This vision needs to be narrated because it was the 540 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,599 emotional crucible for his research. Goehler described a vision where 541 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,920 an enormous apparatus gigantic satellite dish like structures covered in 542 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,680 symbols identical to the code he now sees in the laser, 543 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:08,279 rose up in front of him. 544 00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:10,759 Speaker 1: He said it was as solid and real as any physical. 545 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,039 Speaker 2: Structure, and then, in a moment of just a visceral shock, 546 00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:16,440 the entire physical world around him, the street, the cars, 547 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,519 the buildings, was stripped away, reduced to a wireframe grid. 548 00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: And the apparatus then went clunk and everything started performing 549 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,640 in zigzags. 550 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: Cars, people, dogs just appearing out of nowhere as the 551 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,960 rendering snapped back into place. 552 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: The emotional impact was not intellectual acceptance for him. He 553 00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:36,000 described it as a deep spiritual wound. 554 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,319 Speaker 2: He said he felt profoundly gutted by the realization. His 555 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,559 immediate reaction was existential dread. He asked, wait, like, am 556 00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:46,680 I a puppet? This is kind of meaningless. 557 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: He thought that if he ever learned he was in 558 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,519 a simulation, he wouldn't care, much like knowing a knife 559 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,720 is real doesn't stop it from hurting you. 560 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,279 Speaker 2: But the reality of seeing the mechanism changed everything for him. 561 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680 He realized that the lack of fundamental reaction made his 562 00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:02,880 current experience feel hollow. 563 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 1: But he subsequently reframed that shock by grasping the larger 564 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,319 picture the vision had provided. 565 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,519 Speaker 2: He concluded that the source of the rendering is ultimately irrelevant. 566 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,240 It fundamentally doesn't matter if your existence is rendered by 567 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,759 the unyielding laws of physics or by another civilization's hyper 568 00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:19,319 advanced computer program. 569 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:23,079 Speaker 1: As long as you possess genuine consciousness and real experience, 570 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,519 real joy, real pain, that is what matters. 571 00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: His ultimate conclusion, it's simulations all the way up. Even 572 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,720 the civilization running our simulation might be simulated itself. The 573 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:38,119 computational nature is the most basic layer of reality. 574 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,759 Speaker 1: This acceptance of a computational architecture leads us to the 575 00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:45,039 video game analogy. Used in the source material. 576 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,039 Speaker 2: Which offers the most compelling theoretical explanation for why the 577 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:49,880 laser experiment works as a glitch. 578 00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: The analogy relies on a fundamental need for any complex 579 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,079 system resource conservation. 580 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: Exactly, if you're running a simulation of this complexity and 581 00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:03,799 in higher universe, you cannot afford to render every single 582 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,799 particle or every line of code at maximum fidelity at 583 00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:09,599 all times. It would be computationally impossible. 584 00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:13,039 Speaker 1: In modern video games, the system can serves processing power 585 00:29:13,319 --> 00:29:16,799 by only rendering assets that the player us can currently 586 00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:17,799 see or interact with. 587 00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:20,359 Speaker 2: Right if you're standing in a closed room, the complex 588 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,279 city environment outside the window isn't fully rendered. It's just 589 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:26,319 a low resolution placeholder until you open the door and 590 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:27,160 look at it. 591 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,079 Speaker 1: The theory suggests our simulation works in a similar way. 592 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:35,000 The fundamental source code the operational parameters are normally hidden 593 00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:39,519 beneath the rendering layer of our physical reality to conserve resources. 594 00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: We're only supposed to see the physics engine's output, not 595 00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:43,720 the code that's running it. 596 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: So shining the difracted laser beam onto an obscure mat surface, 597 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,119 especially one position within the protective environment of a farretay 598 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,200 cage might be a glitch in the simulation or an. 599 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: Easter egg left by the developers. 600 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,799 Speaker 1: The light hits the surface the simulation engine perhaps didn't optimize. 601 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,559 Speaker 2: For, and the active diffraction forces the engine to render 602 00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:09,519 a complex, structured visual texture the code in an area 603 00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:12,480 that is normally outside the primary focus of the simulation. 604 00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: It's like pointing the camera in a video game at 605 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,799 a spot that developers forgot to texture, and instead of 606 00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:18,599 a wall, you see the binary underneath. 607 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,039 Speaker 2: It's an elegant theoretical explanation for why such a specific 608 00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:25,799 physical interaction difracted light under the influence of DMT is 609 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,599 necessary to peer into the underlying digital structure. 610 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:32,359 Speaker 1: You're attempting to find the specific input sequence that causes 611 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,920 the system to expose its metadata. 612 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 2: And that brings us to the biggest challenge of. 613 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:41,599 Speaker 1: All scientific validation. Danny Goehler's ultimate objective is to move 614 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,559 this beyond fringe research and subjective anecdote. He wants to 615 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,119 prove the simulation hypothesis scientifically, or. 616 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:52,039 Speaker 2: At least prove the reality of the code phenomenon itself. 617 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,359 Speaker 1: This is where the research faces its most formidable obstacles. 618 00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:59,079 He says they're collaborating with physicists and engineers, trying to 619 00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:00,359 create coherent. 620 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,039 Speaker 2: Trying to put something on paper that makes sense even 621 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,920 to a mainstream scientist. The challenge isn't just seeing the code, 622 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,480 it's describing it in reproducible, non subjective terms. 623 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,039 Speaker 1: But the massive hurdle, as we noted, is the DMT requirement. 624 00:31:14,279 --> 00:31:17,519 Speaker 2: The reliance on a Schedule I controlled substance precludes a 625 00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:20,759 lot of people from attempting it. It restricts mainstream scientific 626 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:23,640 involvement due to ethical review boards and legal limitations. 627 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,279 Speaker 1: You can't run a standardized, university funded double blind study 628 00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,759 on the source code of the universe if the required 629 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,359 viewing key is illegal and chemically profound. 630 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,759 Speaker 2: This means the validation of the phenomenon relies almost entirely 631 00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,519 on independent researchers and crucially on accumulating an overwhelming volume 632 00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:44,400 of subjective witness testimony, which. 633 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Brings up that foundational question of evidence. 634 00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: Gooler acknowledges this limitation when asked how he proves any 635 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,960 of this, He points to the limitations of human perception 636 00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:55,079 even in a non altered state. 637 00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:57,799 Speaker 1: He notes that our own court systems rely on human 638 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,720 witnesses and recollections which are notorious faulty. 639 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 2: So his core question then is about critical mass. How 640 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,000 many witnesses is enough to say that this thing is 641 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:08,039 true or not true? 642 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: At what point does mass subjective experience transition into objective data. 643 00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:16,559 Speaker 2: And his current answer is profound in its scale. He 644 00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:19,359 says they are up to about three thousand subjects who 645 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920 have now seen the code, three thousand and Gohler states 646 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,839 that this volume is enough for me to move on 647 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,599 to other levels of experimentation. 648 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: That volume of consistency three thousand individuals using the same 649 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,960 precise protocol, reporting the same complex structured, dynamic symbols, geometries 650 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,440 and languages, that is, in his framework, sufficient for a 651 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,200 preliminary scientific. 652 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: Acceptance, even if definitive proof requires some kind of instrumentation 653 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,720 that can photograph the code without human intervention. 654 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: And when Jay, the skeptical participant, challenge the very foundation 655 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:53,880 of the experiment is it a hallucination? Is its suggestion 656 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,240 as a just reflected light? Gaulla's response was less about 657 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,119 defending the methodology and. 658 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,559 Speaker 2: More about defending the principle of making the information public. 659 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:05,759 Speaker 1: He embraces skepticism. He knows that if the finding is 660 00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:09,119 real it has to withstand intense scrutiny, and. 661 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:12,599 Speaker 2: He cited that famous Terence McKenna quote as his guiding principle. 662 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,839 If it's real, you can take the pressure. 663 00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:18,559 Speaker 1: Gohler sees his job as facilitating the discovery and then 664 00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:20,400 letting it go through the ringer of science. 665 00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,519 Speaker 2: This leads us to our concluding analysis, which has to 666 00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:26,960 be independent of whether we accept the simulation hypothesis itself. 667 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,799 We have to focus on the monumental significance of the 668 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,920 DMT consistency, regardless of whether the code is internal or external. 669 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: Even if we adopt the most stringent skeptical materialist perspective 670 00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:41,599 that the code phenomenon is solely attributable to a shared 671 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,079 chemical response or hallucination, the findings are still revolutionary for neuroscience. 672 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely. The fact that a naturally occurring chemical in the 673 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,119 human body can cause thousands of people to have similar, 674 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:58,480 highly structured, complex experiences involving code, language, and specific geometric 675 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,319 entities that demands intense scientific research. 676 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: It suggests a hardwired, shared architecture of human perception that 677 00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:09,480 is currently untapped and unexplained by conventional science. 678 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 2: If the structure the tetrahedrons, the bucket balls the specific 679 00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:17,519 characters is being generated internally, then DMT is effectively unlocking 680 00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:19,320 the language of the deep subconscious. 681 00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: It's showing us how the brain processes reality at its 682 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,280 most fundamental geometrical level. When the filtering mechanism is disabled. 683 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: It would mean our neurological system speaks in code and shapes, and. 684 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: That in itself is a profound insight into what it 685 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,800 means to be human. Whether it's the operating system of 686 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,920 the cosmos or the operating system of the human mind. 687 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:43,880 We have to investigate what DMT is truly revealing. So 688 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,800 this deep dive has explored the tension between well the 689 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,960 ancient allegory of the cave, the modern statistical probability of simulation, 690 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,920 and the incredibly unique, repeatable, yet chemically induced observations of 691 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,679 the code of reality. 692 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,639 Speaker 2: The thought of an insectoid species weaving our physical world, 693 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,960 or just the sheer audacity of trying to find the 694 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,840 source code of existence in a diffracted laser beam. It's 695 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,440 profoundly thought provoking. 696 00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: The implications of that resource conservation analogy are perhaps the 697 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,639 most unsettling for me, the idea that our physical world 698 00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:18,360 only fully renders when they're looking at it. 699 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,519 Speaker 2: That observation itself forces the cosmos to commit computational resources. 700 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,519 It recontextualizes the very act of existing. 701 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: If the universe is fundamentally built on code, and the 702 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,719 only barrier to seeing that code is a neurochemical that 703 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,800 our own bodies produce naturally. 704 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 2: Then humanity is much closer to its own operating system 705 00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:37,599 than we ever imagined. 706 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: The barrier to reality might be nothing more than a 707 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:41,079 chemical filter. 708 00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 2: So we'll leave you with this final provocative thought. Tom 709 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,119 All over, we've explored Gohler's premise that reality is fundamentally computational, 710 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,199 a simulated experience run by unknown entities. 711 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: If your existence, your love, your pain, and your consciousness 712 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,599 are all experiences rendered by code, ode by a physics 713 00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:05,119 engine set up by another civilization, does that change the 714 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,239 meaning or purpose of your life right now? 715 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,119 Speaker 2: Does a computational reality make your personal experience any less real? 716 00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. What do you think 717 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,679 is more likely that three thousand people are sharing a 718 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:22,079 remarkably consistent complex hallucination induced by a natural neuromodulator, or 719 00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:24,800 that they are truly glimpsing the operating system of the cosmos. 720 00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 2: Leave us a comment with your thoughts on the architecture 721 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:27,880 of reality.