1
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,519
Speaker 1: We're Tomy Lorenzo, and this is the Pop Style Opinion best. Hellokot,

2
00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:30,039
welcome back to another edition of the Pso. I am

3
00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:32,439
the Tea and your t LO Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm

4
00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:34,240
here with the low and your t lo, Lorenzo, my cousin,

5
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,719
my lovely husband. Hellye, how are your lovely husband wonderful?

6
00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 2: When Tab is here saying hi to everyone?

7
00:00:39,719 --> 00:00:46,079
Speaker 1: Tab Hunter a big twenty pounds baby boy, Pat Hmmm, well, yes,

8
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,320
as you know, as I'm sure you know, we're all

9
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,679
in on the finale too. And just like that, which

10
00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:56,359
was terrible in ways that I could not have predicted, No,

11
00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,200
but horrific. But before we before we get in to

12
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,640
that drama, Lorenzo, why don't you take us through the

13
00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:10,959
latest took advertising culture war brew haha, And this time

14
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,159
I'm one hundred percent with the outrage.

15
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,879
Speaker 2: Right well, the TikTok and pretty much everyone is talking

16
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,159
about it. The Elf company, the beauty line of cosmetics. Cosmetics. Yes,

17
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,159
so they have a new ad. Of course, everyone has

18
00:01:27,159 --> 00:01:28,879
a new ad. So he has a new They have

19
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,319
a new ad with the comedian Matt Rife. It's it's

20
00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:35,000
sort of like a spoof on what those you know,

21
00:01:35,239 --> 00:01:39,920
lawyers commercials. So it's him and hiding in closet.

22
00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:44,079
Speaker 1: Todi in clouset is a ru Paul's drag race exactly

23
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:44,920
a dragon queen.

24
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 2: So uh, and she's a wonderful I love Heidi. Anyway,

25
00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:52,400
So they're doing this commercial and it's sort of this

26
00:01:52,519 --> 00:01:57,400
silly about you know, legal commercial that you know.

27
00:01:57,519 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: About cable access lawyers.

28
00:01:59,599 --> 00:02:03,079
Speaker 2: Actually, I like defending the rights to beauty and that

29
00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:07,040
kind of bullshit. It's a lame ad, but anyway, that's

30
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,439
not necessarily the point. The point is that they everyone

31
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:15,520
is appalled that they hire comedian met Rife given his

32
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,560
history of a lot of horrible things. I don't want

33
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,719
to get into these specificity toos because they're so horrible

34
00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:23,240
and gross.

35
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 1: Well, I do think it's important that can I let

36
00:02:26,439 --> 00:02:28,280
me just say that, because if we're going to talk

37
00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:29,599
about it, we have to talk about what's at the

38
00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:35,159
heart of it. And in a twenty twenty three comedy special,

39
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,800
he made a joke about domestic violence. It was a

40
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,319
very tactless sort of joke. It wasn't a violent joke,

41
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,400
but it was you know, it was making fun of

42
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,120
someone of a woman who was clearly a victim of

43
00:02:50,159 --> 00:02:53,680
domestic violence, and there was a lot of outcry at

44
00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:55,919
the time. I mean, his comedy was sort of that

45
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,319
sort of shocking, sort of douche bro kind of comedy.

46
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,039
There was a lot of outcry at the time. And

47
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,120
then he did this thing where he he posted a

48
00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:09,080
quote apology on his socials, but it led to a

49
00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:14,479
link to a product for special need, a helmet for

50
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,840
people with special needs. So he followed up his domestic

51
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,120
violence joke by making a joke about developmentally disabled people.

52
00:03:21,879 --> 00:03:24,599
Speaker 2: And he made all the jokes about women, about body

53
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,919
parts that I don't want to talk about anyway. He's gross,

54
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:33,039
he's terrific, He's horrible, horrific. I mean, he's horrible. Uh,

55
00:03:33,199 --> 00:03:36,919
and I don't I'm actually surprised that they decided to

56
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,159
go with this guy. Now. The only thing I can

57
00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:43,719
think of is because he started his career and on

58
00:03:43,759 --> 00:03:46,479
social media and a lot of women followed him in

59
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,919
the beginning, So maybe the company was like, well, he

60
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,560
has a lot of women following him there. Yeah, and

61
00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:55,639
it's a beauty you know, it's cotsmatics, so maybe you

62
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:56,960
know we have something here.

63
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,199
Speaker 1: Yes, that was what alf Cosmetics said in response to

64
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,759
the outcry was that they had booked him because of

65
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,719
his high social media He has a massive social media

66
00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:10,199
following and it's something like seventy percent women. He is

67
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,319
a good looking guy, not my type, and that was

68
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,439
partially how he gained such a high female social media following.

69
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,240
Then when he got bigger, he got a ton of

70
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,560
plastic surgery and cosmetic work done on his face, and

71
00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,120
I don't know, I don't think that's something. I think

72
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,759
he ruined his face to be perfectly blunt, but he

73
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:36,560
didn't lose his female followers. So that is ostensibly their

74
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,399
defense is that we booked him because he has so

75
00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:43,199
many women followers. I think that's both true and a

76
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,720
little bit of an ass covering. At the same time,

77
00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:48,319
when I read that statement, I was like, well, that's

78
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,759
a statement that was built into this campaign. They knew

79
00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:54,000
he was a controversial figure, they knew there was going

80
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,959
to be backlash, so they had this ready to go. Well,

81
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,120
you ladies are the one that followed him. I just

82
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,000
want to tie this into some recent things, like we

83
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,399
did a podcast two weeks ago about Sidney Sweeney's American

84
00:05:07,439 --> 00:05:09,759
Eagle ads, and boy do I not want to rehash that,

85
00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:13,439
but I also want to remind people of the backlash

86
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,360
to the Dylan mulvaney Budweiser ads, and what we're seeing

87
00:05:17,399 --> 00:05:21,120
right now is an industry, the advertising industry, trying to

88
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,480
figure out how to ride the culture war in a

89
00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:27,199
way that benefits them. The Dylan mulvaney ad was an

90
00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:33,800
enormous disaster for Anheuser Busch. They lost sales because of it.

91
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,120
So I'm bringing this up because now there is this

92
00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:44,519
discussion about quote outrage marketing and that advertising is now

93
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:51,600
deliberately trying to outrage people. And I think I don't

94
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,560
think that's completely outside I mean, I think that's something

95
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,600
worth discussing. But advertising wants to drive sales. They're not

96
00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:04,079
here to outrage people. I think sometimes people mistake what

97
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,439
the goals of advertising are versus what the goals of

98
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:14,399
say social media influencing is are. Outrage drives clicks, and

99
00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:18,399
that's great in an attention economy, that's great on social media,

100
00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:23,959
that's great for blogging, whatever influencers. Advertising has to drive sales,

101
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,199
and outrage doesn't drive sales, it drives clicks. And maybe

102
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,800
the industry is going through a period right now where

103
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,199
it is misunderstanding that and confusing clicks with sales. But honestly,

104
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,279
that would mean that everybody at the top level of

105
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,839
advertising has completely lost the understanding of what the industry

106
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,279
is supposed to do. So let me just say this.

107
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,800
I don't think they are booking people like Sidney Sweeney

108
00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:55,879
or Matt Rife because they want to piss off people,

109
00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:59,079
because that is not the goal of advertising. Advertising is

110
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:04,199
to drive sales. What they have done is misread the

111
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:09,000
Trump win the election, and they have misread it, as

112
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,319
a lot of businesses have done. In the last eight

113
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,079
or nine months, We've seen so many institutions just bow

114
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,279
down to and mistakenly so bow down to him. And

115
00:07:21,279 --> 00:07:23,279
what we're seeing as an industry that thinks, well, we've

116
00:07:23,319 --> 00:07:25,519
got to write out the culture wars and things are

117
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,879
anti woke now, so we need to book these people

118
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,519
that aren't woke, or that we need to book these

119
00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:37,279
people that conservatives like so Sidney Sweeney, Matt Wright. I

120
00:07:37,399 --> 00:07:42,560
do not think that Elf Cosmetics was espousing a pro

121
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,920
domestic violence line by booking him any more than I

122
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:52,160
think American Eagle was promoting eugenics by booking her. It's

123
00:07:52,199 --> 00:07:57,519
all about needling people with culture war signifiers without actually

124
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,480
saying the offensive stuff. So when and when the public

125
00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:04,079
reacts badly to it, they'll say things like, well, we

126
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:04,720
you know.

127
00:08:04,839 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 2: But I do think this is far worse than Sydney's.

128
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,839
Oh I do too, because there's I mean, there's nothing

129
00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:13,000
wrong with comment. I mean, citizen is just an actor.

130
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,839
There's nothing wrong with her. I mean, yeah, yeah, she's

131
00:08:17,879 --> 00:08:20,000
any public and I get it anyway, But anyway, there's

132
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,639
nothing horrific. She hasn't done anything. Common is a fucking asshole, Okay.

133
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,040
Misogyny is Misogyny is horrible. He has said horrible thing

134
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:31,959
he's been He he went to talk shows and said

135
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,200
horrible things about women, made horrible jokes, and he doesn't

136
00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:38,320
give us shit. He doesn't know. And the thing is

137
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,519
that this is very true of social media and people

138
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,159
with a lot of followers. They don't give a ship

139
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,919
because they have a lot of followers. And the problem

140
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,960
is the followers, because if you were followed, then you

141
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,279
should stop following these people in general. But my point

142
00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:54,879
is they're not gonna they don't care. They're still making money.

143
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,639
They think it's you know, they'll apologic cosmetics, they'll apologize.

144
00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:02,159
He in there and and then they move on. The

145
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,159
problem with ALF is that I don't know much about

146
00:09:04,159 --> 00:09:07,559
the company. I don't buy their products. But my understanding

147
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,919
is that they have recently or have supported women in sports,

148
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,000
like they're all about women and all that.

149
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 1: That's why I don't think this and then and.

150
00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 2: You fuck up like this. I mean, it's just it's it.

151
00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:21,399
I mean, do your fucking homework. The same thing with

152
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,799
Hidi in closet. I love her and I know things

153
00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:27,399
are tough for drag queens right now, but I would

154
00:09:27,399 --> 00:09:29,799
have said, no, I do not want to be associated

155
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,840
with his men. Uh. But now you know, people just

156
00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:35,879
I don't get that. I don't get that. Uh. And

157
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,120
the long run is not worth it people. Yeah, yeah,

158
00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:42,919
it's just it's just I just feel like this is

159
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,000
what we're facing now with It's just oh, every now

160
00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:48,240
and then there's a campaign and oh my god, and

161
00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:50,799
then we talk about it and you know, I don't know,

162
00:09:51,639 --> 00:09:52,960
let's see if they sell makeup.

163
00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:56,519
Speaker 1: I know they've already seen such a backline. This is

164
00:09:56,519 --> 00:09:59,519
what I mean. I don't think these brands have thought

165
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,200
these things through, and I don't think they are deliberately

166
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,559
trying to piss people off, because when you piss consumers off,

167
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:10,799
they don't buy your product. That is a mainstay of capitalism,

168
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,120
of marketing, of advertising. So no, I don't think American

169
00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:17,759
Eagle or Elf Cosmetics was like, let's piss off liberals,

170
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,720
because that is not an advertising plan.

171
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 2: And I changed, I changed what I said about that

172
00:10:23,399 --> 00:10:24,440
type of thing. In general.

173
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,559
Speaker 1: We need to talk about it. We need to talk

174
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:26,919
about it.

175
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,159
Speaker 2: I got we need to stop buying their product because

176
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,000
that's the only thing they believe in. It's money. Yeah,

177
00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:35,519
if you stop buying their products, if you start supporting

178
00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:39,840
them financially, then you made a point. So yes, let's

179
00:10:39,879 --> 00:10:42,519
talk about it. But if you talk about it, if

180
00:10:42,519 --> 00:10:44,879
you think it's horrific, but you still follow you still

181
00:10:44,879 --> 00:10:47,559
buy the product, you still do this and that, then

182
00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:50,360
then there's no point because they're not going to change.

183
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,639
They are only going to change when the effect they're wallet,

184
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:58,320
when they stop making money, when they lose followers. That's

185
00:10:58,399 --> 00:11:03,799
the only way these people will and companies, celebrities, everybody.

186
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:09,279
So yeah, this is growth. As many people said online,

187
00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,960
couldn't you find another comedian you know, to to work

188
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,679
with Heidi? I mean, come on, this guy is gross.

189
00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:23,320
He is horrible. Oh god, yeah, anyway, Lorenzo's angry. It's

190
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,919
just that for a long time, people crucify this guy

191
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,320
and his show on Netflix, you know, because it was

192
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,279
horrible what he said. He starts to show with a

193
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,919
horrible joke about domestic violence and think it's funny and

194
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,440
then doesn't apologize, and then he moves on. There are

195
00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:40,399
other things he said out there that I don't want

196
00:11:40,399 --> 00:11:44,000
to repeat here, horrible about women, and you know, and

197
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,720
here we are again, Sally makeup. Really anyway, shame on all.

198
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 1: Of you, Yes, shame on all of you. And on

199
00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:54,159
that note, let's take a break and we'll come right

200
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,200
back and yell at carry Bradshaw. Actually I'm gonna yell

201
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,960
at Michael Patrick can. Yes, we'll be right back. We're back,

202
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,679
And just like that aired its final episode last night

203
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,039
and we're all just reeling from it. We have been

204
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,759
trashing this show from day one, not necessarily from day one.

205
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,840
I think we definitely did not go into it with

206
00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,360
the idea that we were let's just put our bona

207
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,240
fides out there. We were the original Sex and the

208
00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:27,720
City Gaze gen x Gaze watched it from episode one.

209
00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:29,799
Speaker 2: I remember dating when watching the episode.

210
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as I put on blue Sky last night

211
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,080
before the episode aired. It's kind of sad because when

212
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,960
the finale of Sex and the City aired, we probably

213
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,159
had like now, granted it aired on a weeknight, I

214
00:12:44,159 --> 00:12:46,200
mean on a weekend, and we were all much younger

215
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,600
back then, but we must have had like ten to

216
00:12:49,639 --> 00:12:52,120
fifteen people at our apartment to watch it. It was

217
00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:56,039
a big deal. We made Cosmopolitans and it was And

218
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,480
like I remember all the hooting and hollering as Big

219
00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:01,320
went to Paris to find you know, Carrie and paper

220
00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,799
her away from Petrowski. It all meant something. It all

221
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,000
had an emotional component. It felt like a finale. It

222
00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:09,600
felt like saying goodbye to friends. It felt like a

223
00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:15,080
cultural moment. None of that was evident in last night's show.

224
00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:20,080
And all you have done is Sully your own reputations,

225
00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,960
Like we had that great goodbye and now we have

226
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,039
literally literally a bowl full of shit. And that brings

227
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,200
me to my next point, which is absolutely, in no

228
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:35,639
way was this a planned finale. There is no way

229
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,960
in hell. Sarah Jessica Parker said, yes, for our goodbye

230
00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:43,840
to Carrie Bradshaw, Let's have her dealing with a literal

231
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,440
bowl full of turns in her final moment. Absolutely not,

232
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,200
absolutely not. Nobody agreed to that because this would have

233
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,639
been a season, but it had all the markings of

234
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,559
a season finale, not a series finalen.

235
00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,080
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. And back to what you said, we

236
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,759
were huge fans. I'm still am of Sex and the

237
00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:06,399
City the show, not the movies. The show.

238
00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:07,919
Speaker 1: I didn't mind the first movie.

239
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,279
Speaker 2: No, I hated all the movies, but anyway, I loved

240
00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:14,600
the show. Never liked anything after that. But I was

241
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,360
hopeful because it was a show again, not a movie,

242
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,879
and I was like, all right, maybe they're they're bringing

243
00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:23,600
these wonderful ladies back and maybe we'll have some fun here.

244
00:14:23,879 --> 00:14:28,159
But no, it was first so much pressure to include

245
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,039
so many things, so many elements that maybe could be

246
00:14:32,159 --> 00:14:34,240
there but not necessarily part of the show, because they

247
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,879
couldn't do I think about it. I was like, what

248
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:38,320
if we had had a show with just the main

249
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,559
ladies and those were friends but not main characters.

250
00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:43,039
Speaker 1: Isn't not the show that we got?

251
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 2: No, we have. Well, they intended to bring Sema and

252
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:46,720
everybody else.

253
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:48,639
Speaker 1: They treated them like background characters.

254
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,919
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I wish it was more about the four,

255
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,320
the no four because we don't have four or three.

256
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,159
Maybe that's why. But anyway, it was a disaster from

257
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,559
the beginning, and as many people said, I read on

258
00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:04,759
read it and everywhere that people were saying, we were

259
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,360
trashing the show because we were hoping that the show

260
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:09,639
would get better. And it's true. It's not that they

261
00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:13,200
wanted the show to go away most people, because everyone

262
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,480
is a fan and I've read so many pieces already,

263
00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:17,759
and they all talk about how how much they love

264
00:15:17,879 --> 00:15:20,679
Sex and the City and how much they love these characters,

265
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,200
and that's why they were so passionate about it and

266
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,399
and trashing it so much because it felt like a betrayal.

267
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't go that far. It didn't feel like

268
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,360
a betrayal. It just felt like a massive failure, and

269
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:36,559
it felt like some rather serious shortsightedness on the part

270
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:42,399
of some of the actresses because they are executive producers,

271
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,679
the three main actresses. But a lot of it comes

272
00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:48,559
down to Michael Patrick King, the showrunner and the head writer,

273
00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:52,759
and the just the the brains behind this franchise. Going

274
00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:54,639
back to like the third season of Sex and the

275
00:15:54,679 --> 00:16:01,440
City when he took over, I you're all he's seventy

276
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,720
years old, and I want to say that, of course,

277
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:06,799
you can be seventy and still be viable, working creative,

278
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,240
have much to say about the world. But he's very

279
00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:14,840
clearly not that guy. And that has always been my

280
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,279
problem with this show is that it has such a

281
00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:22,600
bitter and fearful view of the world, and it is

282
00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:26,759
not the view of these late fifty something women who

283
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,080
are married and widowed and have children. No, it is

284
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,799
the view of a bitter seventy year old gay man

285
00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:38,399
being forced on these characters. And this was always a mismatch.

286
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:42,159
The joke going back to twenty years ago was that

287
00:16:42,919 --> 00:16:44,720
all four women were basically gay men.

288
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,639
Speaker 2: Right, and that was it worked when they were young.

289
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,039
Speaker 1: It worked when they were young and they didn't have

290
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,600
children and husbands, and you could do that, you could

291
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:57,000
make that comparison. But a seventy year old man writing

292
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,679
women who are ten fifteen years younger than him and

293
00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:05,759
have the lives of women, and that to me was

294
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,680
It's so evident in these final few episodes where his

295
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,440
voice was so loud and I was like, this sounds

296
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,079
like an old gay man, this does I'm not hearing

297
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,720
women's voices in this show.

298
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,880
Speaker 2: And well, that's the thing when you're old, when you

299
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,559
eyed white and you gay, you really have to work hard.

300
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 3: And I say, oh, listen, you really have to work

301
00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:31,240
hard to get out of that cage. Absolutely, you know,

302
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,559
get off to see him, you know, start idolizing this

303
00:17:36,759 --> 00:17:40,480
Hollywood version of women and create something current.

304
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 2: And he didn't. He kind of did back then because

305
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:46,799
he all was younger. He was younger, and he had

306
00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:47,839
the help of a lot of women.

307
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were women writers.

308
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 2: There were women writers, and I remember watching interviews with

309
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,079
them talking about their experiences and that most of those

310
00:17:56,079 --> 00:17:59,599
situations created for the show were their experience or their

311
00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:00,559
friends experience, you.

312
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,279
Speaker 1: Know, like it was kind of real. You just didn't

313
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:03,119
get that from them.

314
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 2: No, no, because they didn't know how to write for

315
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,200
an older woman.

316
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 1: I returned to this so many times. I have said

317
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,079
this so many times. But when you look at Carrie,

318
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,599
that is not some that she doesn't act like a widow.

319
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:18,759
And I don't mean she should be wearing black and weeping.

320
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,000
I mean, you had twenty five years with one person

321
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,720
like that. I don't care who you are. That changes you,

322
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:30,559
That drastically changes you in a lot of ways. It

323
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,480
changes your outlook. It changes so much. And someone who

324
00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:38,559
spent twenty five years with someone who was supposedly the

325
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,720
love of their life, even though the show has backed

326
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,559
away from that, I don't think she would be looking

327
00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:47,960
at this stage in her life like, oh, I don't

328
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:51,200
have someone. You don't have someone because your husband died

329
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:54,319
and that's something you should be working through. Not am

330
00:18:54,319 --> 00:18:58,599
I still pretty? Which is what that sort of focus

331
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,440
tends to come down on. It's more like, well, oh,

332
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,680
it's so is it tragic that I'm alone? And actually

333
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,480
the answer to that is yes, Carrie, because your husband died,

334
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,839
not because you're old or not pretty enough or anything.

335
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,720
That's the problem with the framing of this story is

336
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:18,880
they never had her deal with her widowhood in an

337
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,079
effective way. They dealt with it in the first like

338
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,039
four or five episodes of the first season, but again,

339
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,319
you were with someone for twenty five years, they die,

340
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:33,160
you just don't get Yes, maybe she's dating within a year.

341
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,240
I'm not saying she wouldn't be, but I he wrote

342
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,680
her as if she were thirty eight and looking for

343
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,920
a husband instead of fifty eight and just buried one.

344
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 2: That was always my problem and listen. I have no

345
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,440
problem whether you were a man or a woman. If

346
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:54,880
you want to have someone you if you're upset because

347
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,799
you don't have someone, all that is real and valid. Yes,

348
00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:02,759
is the fact that you spent three seasons make these

349
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:06,119
women look pathetic. Pathetic because they didn't have a man,

350
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,160
or they couldn't find a man, or because they're having

351
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,160
trouble with men. That's not how you write a character.

352
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,559
Speaker 1: And it was well, they didn't all have man troubles

353
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,480
or relationship troubles. I think it made them look pathetic

354
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,839
because it takes such a dim view of aging womanhood

355
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,440
like that is the problem, although it didn't take much

356
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,960
of a much better view of the men. There's way

357
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:30,359
too much peeing on this. Someone brought up yesterday there

358
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,319
were two scenes last night of men peeing on camera,

359
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,319
and I was like, well, that's a lot. And then

360
00:20:35,759 --> 00:20:37,960
Harry wet his pants. And then someone else mentioned on

361
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,519
social media last night the scene with Carrie having to

362
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:43,680
pee into a bottle after her hip surgery, and I

363
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,039
was like, you know, this is what happens when you

364
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:47,720
hand over the writing of a show to a seven

365
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:51,839
year old man because he's obsessed with peeing, because if

366
00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:53,559
you're a seven let me trust tell you, if you're

367
00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:55,720
a seven year old man, that is constantly in the

368
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,200
back of your mind, like when it's the next time

369
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,079
I going to pee, and.

370
00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:03,039
Speaker 2: Obsessed with it hard on and.

371
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: And trashing young queer kids. Oh my god, let's put

372
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,039
that aside for a second.

373
00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 2: Now. Let's we'll talk about the episode in a minute.

374
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:11,640
Let's just yeah.

375
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a whole other thing. But the bitter

376
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,240
old white gayness of this final episode was so overwhelming

377
00:21:20,319 --> 00:21:21,559
to me that I was just like.

378
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: And they're all like that. I mean, we're we're henning

379
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,000
entertainment to these old.

380
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:33,799
Speaker 1: Wide miserable Listen. I think seventy year old showrunners are fine.

381
00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: I do, but I know, but come on, we have

382
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,240
we have Ryan Murphy, we have the Murphy is our

383
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:43,680
age whatever, the white Lotos guy. They're as also our age.

384
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,200
I mean, come on, move on, move on. Uh it

385
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,559
doesn't have to don't get me wrong. Ryan Murphy is

386
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:51,799
what my is going to turn into Michael Patrick King

387
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:53,359
in a few years. He's already there.

388
00:21:53,839 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: Uh ru. Paul is another one. I mentioned this before

389
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,200
we flipped on our mics, that part of the reason

390
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,119
this bothered me so much, and we've pulled Ryan Murphy

391
00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:06,359
and Rue Paul in for the same thing is older

392
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,519
or elderly gay men who are in charge of a

393
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:15,039
part of the culture and are not engaging with the

394
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:19,240
actual culture that they're in. They're bemoaning the loss of

395
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:21,640
a culture. So so much of RuPaul's drag Race is

396
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,319
about RuPaul's obsessions, RuPaul's favorite songs, favorite TV shows, and

397
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,240
RuPaul is sixty or sixty plus and all of these

398
00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:32,119
queens are in their twenties and they're trying to catch

399
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,000
up to his references. And I see the same thing

400
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,160
with Ryan Murphy, his obsession with pre stonewall gay life,

401
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,599
with divas and all of yeah, yeah, and that has

402
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,720
served him well, but at a certain point, it's like,

403
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:47,680
it's twenty twenty five. Get up to date with the times.

404
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,400
And the reason this is an obsession of mine is

405
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,839
because I am an aging gay man who needs to

406
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,000
stay up with the times in order to have a

407
00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:59,720
viable blog, website product point of view. And it is

408
00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:02,440
not easy to do that. You have got to do

409
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,799
the work to make sure that all of your priors

410
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:08,400
and all of your biases are that you're addressing them

411
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,480
as you move forward.

412
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,759
Speaker 2: It's just to be open to other things. Listen, nobody

413
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:13,880
likes to see him more than I do. Trust me.

414
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,400
I love old Hollywood, these old divas. I love all

415
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,279
of that. But at the same time, I am obsessed

416
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:26,799
with Olivia Rodrigo or with your other chaperone and so

417
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:32,200
many people, because these people are doing interesting things now current,

418
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:35,480
and you know, you have to be open to other things.

419
00:23:35,799 --> 00:23:39,079
You can't just have this idea as a creator, as

420
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:42,759
someone creating a show or whatever, to just this old diva,

421
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,240
you know, old fashioned, stereotypical idea of women and glamour.

422
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,000
It's just like, come on, move on, I move on.

423
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: As I said, I didn't feel like I was getting

424
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,000
any insight into the inner lives or minds of women

425
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:58,920
of that age group. I've made this joke before, but

426
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,880
it's actually true. The Golden Girls gave you more insight

427
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,160
into what it was like to be a woman of

428
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,559
that age. Not only that, it was more real and

429
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,039
it was respectful. It did not make fund of those

430
00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:11,680
women as being just out of touch and oh I've

431
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,000
got vertigo when I'm falling over, and oh my husband's

432
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,480
being is pay like the view and look, can I

433
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:19,599
just say none of them are elderly, they're not even

434
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,319
senior cities question, but they're all acting like they're seventy

435
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:24,119
five years old.

436
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: I don't.

437
00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: I think SJP is sixty and that would make her

438
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,079
older than all of them, and that's it, Like she's

439
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,359
sixty and they write these women like they're seventy five sometimes.

440
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: I mean that scene in the restaurant, Are you kidding me?

441
00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:43,200
Are you telling me that today Carrie doesn't know how

442
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,519
to read a menu or listen?

443
00:24:45,599 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: Actually, oh my god, let's have to read an electronic

444
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,440
menu in the Korean restaurant and she's so flustered. What

445
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:51,839
the what happened in your work?

446
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Oh? I don't know what to Jews?

447
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,359
Are you kidding me?

448
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,279
Speaker 1: This is another thing about Carrie that the show really

449
00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:02,279
missed out on is what the hell does she do?

450
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,599
How does she do with her day?

451
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: Literally?

452
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,599
Speaker 1: What does Carrie do all friggin day? Nothing? She like

453
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,359
hangs out in her guard And honestly, I don't actually

454
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,880
feel like that's believable. I don't believe that the Carrie

455
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,519
that we knew in the nineties and the early aughts

456
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,240
would just be this leisurely like, no, she why isn't

457
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,920
she an editor at vote? Why didn't they give her

458
00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:30,559
an interesting life? They didn't do that. And they could

459
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,160
and like, fine, I don't mind that she writes books,

460
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,279
but what the fuck? Okay, fine, she's a best seller.

461
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,559
She has something like seven best selling books. At this point,

462
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:42,200
she told, well, then why isn't she constantly on talking tours,

463
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,079
because that's what it's someone in her position. Why isn't

464
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,559
she on the Today Show or on her level? And

465
00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:51,160
where are these books? Where are these books? Why are

466
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,480
you not doing the things that an author? A best

467
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,799
selling author? And she sits in her garden and taps

468
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:57,160
away lightly on the laptop.

469
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:57,839
Speaker 2: It is the.

470
00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: Dimmest view of writing. And and you could have done

471
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,720
so much with that. There could have been so many

472
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:08,720
stories about Carrie restarting a career at whatever, you know,

473
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,480
any of that was open to you as a storyline

474
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,319
for her. But you ran straight to let's get her

475
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,839
back with Aiden for fuck's sake. Like it was so

476
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,200
narrow minded, it was so lacking an imagination. They never

477
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:26,160
gave Carrie anything. And the whole re to do, to say,

478
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,599
or to be The whole reason Carrie became an iconic

479
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,880
character was because so much about her was aspirational, her life,

480
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,960
what she was doing, what she wanted out of it.

481
00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:37,279
Speaker 2: The thing with Aiden is that they just wanted to

482
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:39,759
This is my theory. They just wanted to bring the

483
00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:42,119
actor back, and they had to create a story for

484
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,839
that because you could have just easily move.

485
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: On, and you know, and and they misread it. They

486
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,079
thought the fans really wanted to see the two of

487
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,039
them back together again. That wasn't even a thing back

488
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,039
in the original run. Yeah, they didn't want her with him.

489
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,200
Now I wanted tomn It back, and they, for some

490
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,200
bizarre reason, they kept writing, like making a point of

491
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,160
having her say that her marriage was a mistake and

492
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,559
that he was the true love of her life and

493
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:13,640
that they quote have been together twenty two years. I now,

494
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:17,799
why why did you force this on a viewership who

495
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,599
knows we know their history and same thing, we should

496
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:23,799
move on from Carrie. It's the same thing with Miranda.

497
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,200
Whenever there's a scene with Steve, it's heartbreaking to me.

498
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:29,200
Not because I feel that those characters needed to stay together,

499
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,599
but they handled that breakup so badly that I'm still

500
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:37,960
bitter about it again. With Miranda, it was like, well,

501
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,720
let's let's have her explore her sexual again. That's not

502
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:43,720
a bad thing. I never thought that was a bad thing.

503
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,920
But in order to do that, they had to completely

504
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,599
ignore literally everything about that character up until that point.

505
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing. If we don't know, maybe things

506
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:53,359
were very bad between them that she didn't want to

507
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,160
ever see him or talked about him again. But we

508
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,640
didn't get to see that, So all we assume is that, Okay,

509
00:27:59,799 --> 00:28:03,119
she moved on, she's a lesbian now, and then let's

510
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,480
never ever talk about her husband ever or show him.

511
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: Even though they live, you know, not that far. He's

512
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,759
in Brooklyn, she's in Manhattan. But even so, I mean,

513
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:15,799
they have a kid together. No, let's just forget that character.

514
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,240
And I have heard you know, dating Rose O'Donnell, and

515
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:24,920
it was also poorly, poorly, poorly handled. There was no

516
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,880
confusion on Marine. I mean, there was some confusion back

517
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,359
during the Chay Diez thing, but I think there should

518
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,039
have been more for a woman in her fifties with

519
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:42,359
a child and a husband of twenty years or whatever,

520
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,079
who has never had feelings for anyone of the same gender.

521
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,400
That's there should be some trauma in there, and I

522
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,559
know they gave her. They basically layered alcoholism on her

523
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,079
in order to address that. Like, okay, this is the

524
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,480
hard part. But again everything that it was all dealt

525
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,960
with in such a shallow way. Right Suddenly she was

526
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,200
having too many drinks in front of people. They were

527
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,599
a little concerned, a couple arguments, she went to a meeting,

528
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,720
and then it was over.

529
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:14,359
Speaker 2: Now we got a Miranda that would never confront Carrie

530
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:17,039
like it was always tiptoeing around.

531
00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: Everybody tiptoe around carry it's.

532
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean remember the Miranda and her mug, you

533
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,559
know with a maid that she had a favorite mug

534
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:28,200
and oh yeah, had a meltdown because that's the Miranda

535
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:31,799
we know, a very you know, someone who knows what she.

536
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: Wants, knows what she wants. She's very forthright, she's very

537
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,279
she can be very stubborn. She does not like to

538
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,599
be overly demonstrative emotionally. That was Miranda over and over

539
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,319
and over again. But this Miranda gets excited about carryout

540
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,119
machines and pink balloons and doesn't want to take apartments

541
00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:52,160
because her girlfriend might not come over. And it was

542
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,200
such a It was such a what's the word I

543
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,960
want to use. I want to say reverse, but betrayal.

544
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,039
It was a betrayal of that character. Like I think

545
00:30:03,079 --> 00:30:06,039
the rest of the characters, they didn't do great things

546
00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:09,720
with them, but they really betrayed Miranda. Yes, Miranda was

547
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:13,000
the one who stood in for the cynics and who

548
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:15,160
stood in for the ones who were closed off and

549
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:20,200
didn't find it easy to embrace love and were suspicious

550
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,599
of all of the tropes of romance. And you know,

551
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,079
you need a character like that in a show about romance,

552
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:28,119
and they lost all of that in her, and she

553
00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:31,119
was blowing up her life left and remember she ran

554
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,400
off with Shay, she ran off to Los Angeles, Like

555
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,359
what the hell was what?

556
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:34,759
Speaker 2: No?

557
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,119
Speaker 1: And then they finally figured out in this season. No, actually,

558
00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:41,160
Miranda would have a job as a lawyer and an

559
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,519
apartment at this point, So let's get that all figured

560
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:46,599
out immediately. This is why I don't it's so obvious

561
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,559
they were planning on another season. Oh yeah, I mean,

562
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,039
we'll never know what happens with Miranda's grandchild. Are they

563
00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:56,240
ever going to meet that grandchild? Who knows? Because the

564
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:59,160
mother is a complete asshole. They wrote her to be

565
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,559
such an asshole. You know what, let's take a break,

566
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:04,680
because once we start in on the gen Z portrayal,

567
00:31:04,759 --> 00:31:07,160
I'm gonna go off. So we'll take a sure break

568
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,319
and we'll be right back. We are back, and we

569
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,519
decided during the break that we're not going to go

570
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:16,000
all in on the whole gen Z thing just yet.

571
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,240
Let's let's just walk our way through all of the

572
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:26,119
regulars on the show. So we've addressed Miranda. I don't

573
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,119
I don't think I have anything else to say. I mean,

574
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,200
I'm happy she's got Joy. That seems to be a

575
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,839
decent relationship. The stuff with the dogs and the vet

576
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,119
and everything was cute, it was sweet. Didn't have a problem,

577
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,319
what's fine, none of that problem with none of that.

578
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,599
I actually don't have a problem with the storyline they

579
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,480
have introduced with Brady. But this was clearly a storyline

580
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:48,920
that was meant to be to go on for another season,

581
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,279
So ending it this way is just awful. It's an

582
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:55,839
awful way to end things for this character. When I

583
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:57,880
think of Miranda in the final episode of Sex and

584
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,759
the City, she was giving her to Mensha riddled mother

585
00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:04,160
in law a bath and accepting her life. And I

586
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,559
guess maybe I don't know, is hers cleaning shit up

587
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,880
in the bathroom? Well, I don't know. Maybe that's supposed

588
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,759
to be some parallel now, but I think felt tawdry

589
00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:13,759
and unfinished.

590
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:16,079
Speaker 2: I think that's Michael Patrick King's just dumping on all

591
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:16,440
of us.

592
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: We'll get into that. So Miranda whatever, I don't have

593
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,759
a problem with where her life wound up. I hated

594
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:27,200
the way it was handled, and I clearly we're never

595
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,680
going to find out what's going to happen next with her. Charlotte. Again,

596
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,519
they've they struggled so much to find something to do

597
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,880
with Charlotte, and they had some decent storylines her and

598
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,920
Harry dealing with Rock should have been developed more, But

599
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:47,359
again we had a bitter seventy year old gay man

600
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,720
who who has clearly no sympathy whatsoever for young queer people,

601
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,839
let alone trans people. He didn't want to develop this

602
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,319
storyline at all, so it was pretty much thrown on

603
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:01,160
the wayside. But this would this actually was a perfect

604
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,599
storyline for those two. She who was the girliest girl

605
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,799
of all time, the most traditional out of all of

606
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:11,279
the women, dealing with a child who is relinquishing her femininity.

607
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,839
Speaker 2: No, but everything is tied up with a bullshit bowl,

608
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,319
like the whole thing about oh, let me do the pictures. Yes,

609
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,319
I'm gonna have I'm going to be various people very yeah. Whatever,

610
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:22,839
It's like, okay, then we're done here. I guess that's it.

611
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: That's the thing. They backed away from Rock being non binary.

612
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:31,160
And then I really found that last line. I found

613
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,400
that offensive. Yeah, in light of everything that went on

614
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:36,799
with those kids in Miranda's apartment, I found that offensive.

615
00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:39,880
Rock wants to look at the pictures of her from

616
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,759
when she was in I'm sorry, wants to look at

617
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:43,440
the pictures of them from when they were in a

618
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:49,319
thoroughly modern millie. And again, this could have been an

619
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:52,079
interesting thing. Charlotte says, I deleted them because I wasn't

620
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:55,119
sure if you wanted me to keep those, and Rock

621
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,160
says something like, Mom, I'm going to be different people

622
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:01,039
in my life. And it was a Eventually, I don't

623
00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:04,799
care what anyone says, it was essentially Michael Patrick King saying, yeah,

624
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:06,920
this non binary stuff was just the phase. It was

625
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,920
just the face she's going to get over it, which

626
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,000
I'm really offensive. And then the second Charlotte storyline, Well,

627
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,800
there were three actually storylines. I could have gone somewhere.

628
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,000
She went back to work after twenty plus years of

629
00:34:20,039 --> 00:34:26,000
not working. Was there any tension, was there any drama? No,

630
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:32,719
her young gen Z coworkers adored her and because one

631
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,880
of them was plus size, it made her feel better

632
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,360
about being old, which is fucking terrible. And there was

633
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,760
no We never looked back in on that part of

634
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,719
her life, which was always the most fascinating part of

635
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,199
her life, is that she was brilliant at art history

636
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,239
and art curation. So they dropped that and never went

637
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,440
anywhere with that. And then Harry gets prostaate cancer. Again,

638
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:54,840
decent storyline, could have done something with it, but no,

639
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:57,239
it's I can't get an direction, I peed my pants

640
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,840
and that's my balls are huge old. Yeah, and that

641
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,320
is the total sum of Charlotte storylines on this entire show. Yeah,

642
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,480
that is disgraceful.

643
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:10,679
Speaker 2: The idea that if you go back and think about

644
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,320
all the episodes, how many times an entire cass an

645
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,639
entire group had one line and then they moved on

646
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,719
to something else, right, right? So many times it was

647
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,519
like a scene in the in the kitchen, know whatever,

648
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,880
you know what, everybody said, one more and then they

649
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,599
moved on to something else. It's like a waste, a

650
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:28,599
waste of all these kinds.

651
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: And the thing is the show never wants to give

652
00:35:31,199 --> 00:35:34,880
any of them real problems. I mean, yes, his cancer

653
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,800
was a real problem, but it was so wrapped up

654
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,000
so quickly that it literally wasn't a problem. I think

655
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:41,800
one of the things they could have done with Charlotte

656
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,320
is what if they lost their money, right or something

657
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:46,519
something like that. What did they have to sell that penthouse?

658
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:48,920
What would Charlotte and Harry do if they had to

659
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,320
start over it. There's an interesting storyline, and it wouldn't

660
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,920
have even been all that depressing because the two of

661
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,800
them have good jobs. It's not like they would wind

662
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,000
up on the street, they'd have to downsize, they'd have

663
00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:01,960
to look at their children's college life or whatever. But no,

664
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,880
they didn't. He didn't want to do anything like that

665
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480
with these characters. And that is the other thing I

666
00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:09,159
want to talk about in a general sense before we

667
00:36:09,199 --> 00:36:12,280
get into this, is that he never wanted to explore,

668
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,960
truly explore what their lives must be like, like, for instance,

669
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,039
the thought that Carrie only has that house on Grammarcy Park.

670
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:23,440
That's silly, like she and Big had sa If this

671
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:25,840
was true, she and Big would have had several houses,

672
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,639
and one of them would have been in Europe. I mean,

673
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:31,199
he was supposedly a billionaire. They would have had a

674
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:33,079
house in the Hampton's and she wouldn't have been so

675
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,960
weird about real estate at this point in their life,

676
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,559
having been married for twenty five years to someone like that.

677
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,119
But they don't want that. They don't want to show

678
00:36:41,159 --> 00:36:45,079
that these people are incredibly wealthy, so they never travel,

679
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,559
they never travel anywhere, and they all only have one house.

680
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:51,199
But when it's clear that several of them would have

681
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,880
more than one house, I mean, I had to burst

682
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:59,039
out laughing. When Lisa Todd Wexley's husbands thanked her for

683
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:01,760
all the cooking she did on Thanks getting laughing, I'm like,

684
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,679
I'm sorry people with those kitchens. Those kitchens are for

685
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,800
caterers to show up with meals. Those kitchens are not

686
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:11,440
for people to cook in. But they don't want to

687
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,360
show that style even though they live in that place.

688
00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:18,599
That's the and when they went to that that bridle,

689
00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,320
that scene went on way too long that runway show.

690
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,840
But I was like I really they should have been

691
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,079
showing more of this. This is their life. This is

692
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,880
what women in this in this milieu they doing all

693
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,280
the time.

694
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: That's what they that's what they do, clubs and things.

695
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: Like restaurants, our galleries. The Old Show was like that,

696
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,559
and the New Show was like, well, they're old now,

697
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:40,360
so they don't do anything like that. And I'm sorry.

698
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,639
I I went to gallery openings, I went to fashion

699
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:46,480
shows in New York, and there are old people there.

700
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:47,880
It's not all twenty something.

701
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,159
Speaker 2: No, people with money.

702
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: People with money, That's exactly it. And they all have money,

703
00:37:53,079 --> 00:37:55,360
so Manhattan would be open to them. They would not

704
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,119
all be hanging around in their apart listen eating Anthony's

705
00:37:58,119 --> 00:37:58,760
fucking bread.

706
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,199
Speaker 2: I've met many men, many people in New York with money,

707
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,920
and they they I mean, I'm sorry to say this,

708
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,679
but they have interesting lives. They do things.

709
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: Well, that's what money gets to you, you.

710
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,079
Speaker 2: Know, exactly, yeah, exactly. You have free time.

711
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: You have opportunity. This is what I mean about, Carrie.

712
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,840
What are you doing with yourself all day? Every day?

713
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,559
Do you walk around that apartment, that house in your heels?

714
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,239
So Lisa Todd Wexley again, no, storyline there no no, again,

715
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,400
very clear that this was meant to go somewhere, that

716
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,679
her marital problems was were meant to go somewhere, and

717
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,760
this thing with her her editor or whatever was meant

718
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,559
to go. I will say the scene with the two

719
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:42,039
of them. Every once in a while the show will

720
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:45,599
do something Carrie and Aiden's breakup scene and this Lisa's

721
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,639
scene with her editor where it's like, well, at least

722
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,119
they both sound like grown ups right where they're both like, yeah,

723
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,679
I'm married, you're married, We need to be It felt

724
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:54,239
like a grown up.

725
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he came out of nowhere because there's there

726
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,440
rushing and end. Yeah. There was no scene of them

727
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,960
at taking it too far, Yeah, take it too far.

728
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:04,480
So to me it felt like if I was him,

729
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,800
I was like, WHOA, where you coming from? Yeah? You

730
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,559
know what I mean? Because he never he's never done anything.

731
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:13,599
He was sending a lot of segmal guys, but nothing

732
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:15,719
like you know, they weren't. They weren't in bed or

733
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,000
kissing or anything anything to prove that it was going

734
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:21,480
a little more than you know, just just cool work.

735
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,159
Speaker 1: Again, I think he doesn't. He didn't have the nerve

736
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,519
to do things with these characters to give them interesting storylines.

737
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:31,400
And back in the day, Carrie cheated and it made

738
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,320
her look terrible, and I can remember how much the

739
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,360
viewership hated it for doing it back then, but it

740
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,239
was one of the best storylines on the show. And

741
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,119
we all hate it up with a spoon. I don't

742
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,519
know if I needed Lisa Todd Wesley to cheat on

743
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:48,360
her husband, But if you're going to introduce this storyline,

744
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,800
as my grandmother used to say, shit or get off

745
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,639
the pot, Like it's just this an entire season of

746
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,039
just nothing ending with this big declaration that you love

747
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:01,800
your husband's the big nothing storyline. And like I said,

748
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,960
I burst out laughing when he thanked her for cooking

749
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,519
Thanksgiving dinner. I was like, nobody in the kitchen cooks.

750
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:07,159
I'm sorry.

751
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: Same thing with Anthony and his boy too.

752
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: I mean they had that one stupid scene.

753
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, one stupid thing in that it's over.

754
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,639
Speaker 1: I don't even know are they getting mad? Are they

755
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:20,440
breaking up? I couldn't even tell no it and how pathetic,

756
00:40:20,559 --> 00:40:23,320
Like you can't even write a gay character. It's time

757
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,800
to hang it up, MPK, you can't do it anymore. So, Yeah,

758
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,760
Anthony and shouzetpe I guess, yeah, whatever, that's the end

759
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,440
of them, Lisaea Sema.

760
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: It was clearly it was going somewhere, but they had

761
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,559
to end the show.

762
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: I hate the idea that her final scene was in

763
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,960
a pair of shitty geene saying that she loved gluten

764
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,840
free pine, because all you're telling me is that this

765
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,239
woman gave up everything to be to be.

766
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 2: With this man.

767
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: Yes, gave up everything there was stop to unpack there,

768
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,800
because he is a good man, and they clearly took

769
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,920
the time to show that he is great, like they

770
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,280
had Carie Metal. But that's typical character.

771
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: But what we ended up with with him just being

772
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:10,039
himself and her changing everything, changing everything about her to

773
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:10,519
be with him.

774
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: Seeing her in those shitty jeans, I was like, no, oh, no,

775
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,880
I would have accepted that scene that she was sitting

776
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,559
there in some thirty thousand dollars outfit, looking stunning, like

777
00:41:19,679 --> 00:41:22,639
still true to herself, but meeting him halfway and eating

778
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,599
the gluten flat.

779
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 2: So the guy's all that doesn't believe in marriage, blah

780
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,320
blah blah, and she's she's the one changing everything. Terrible

781
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,760
because it's it's you know, apparently they're doing well.

782
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just all right. So so the Thanksgiving the

783
00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:44,400
Thanksgiving thing, Oh, I didn't even get into Can I

784
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,360
just be petty here? And the like, how stupid it was?

785
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,760
Pardon me? The opening scene with Carrie dashing through Manhattan

786
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,800
from one end to oh yeah with pies on Thanksgiving Day,

787
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,320
which is typically one of the worst days for traffic

788
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,280
in Manhattan, it was so silly to me. Well, first off,

789
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,559
that scene starts with her she walks out of the

790
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,519
pie place, and I could not believe I was seeing this.

791
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,880
She yells taxi, and a taxi screeches to a hole,

792
00:42:15,039 --> 00:42:17,000
and that is the oldest cliche to the point that

793
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:19,360
everybody knows you cannot do that in Manhattan.

794
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: Yes, poor Caddy Carrie, Yes she she was getting cabs.

795
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: Not hiring a driver. No step out point.

796
00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: Living in that mansion would have a driver.

797
00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:33,559
Speaker 1: Are you kidding that she would know be on a

798
00:42:33,559 --> 00:42:34,880
first name basis with It's like.

799
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,679
Speaker 2: Listen an economy class, Are you kidding me? People?

800
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a dumb way of this viewing this

801
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,440
life and God whistling for taxis and having them spreeched

802
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,880
to it. Like anybody who spent fifteen minutes in Manhattan

803
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,280
knows that that's not true, So what and part Sex

804
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,960
and the City. Back in the day, it was good

805
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,079
about well, like Carrie getting splashed by a bus in

806
00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:02,679
the opening credits, it was good about not romanticizing Manhattan

807
00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:05,400
in that way. And now the show it's like this

808
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,239
playground for carryers. She's in this ridiculous outfit in a

809
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,840
cab going from one end of Manhattan to the next

810
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:15,119
on Thanksgiving Day, Like, no cab driver would do that, no,

811
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,920
And she's like, oh, I've got a you know the

812
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,159
meter's running. No it's not.

813
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: No, what is this nineteen forty something? So like, why

814
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,519
are you insulting your intelligence now? No? No, no, no, no.

815
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,000
You'd have a driver, a fabulous.

816
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: Driver, and Lisa Todd Wesley would have a caterer. Yeah,

817
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,719
there is no Like, if you're going to do a

818
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,360
show about wealthy women in New York, then why be

819
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,039
shy about the lives that they're living?

820
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:41,639
Speaker 2: Right, it's this romantic I don't know, it's just romantic

821
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,320
idea of everything, what everything has to be, you know, like.

822
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: Except gen z and non binary. Those people are the

823
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,519
worst people in the world. If you're Micharofession, who acts

824
00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:52,960
like that.

825
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: Nobody, nobody, you know, even if you're free and young

826
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,599
like that, you would not behave.

827
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: You would not that way in someone else too home.

828
00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:08,280
I mean, if they were teenagers, maybe maybe, but as

829
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,119
far as I could tell, they were all in their twenties.

830
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,800
It struck me as very strange that the two queer

831
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,400
kids were so obnoxious when they were in a queer

832
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,360
woman's apartment. Like I get the generational difference, like they

833
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,239
weren't going to bow down to Miranda, but they acted,

834
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,360
they treated her, or they acted towards her, like she

835
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:30,840
was just some suburban mom who first of.

836
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,079
Speaker 2: All, why did she invite them anyway? I mean, I mean,

837
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:35,559
why would you bring those friends?

838
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,119
Speaker 1: I guess Miranda said it was okay, the whole storyline

839
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:42,960
was terrible because it makes her. It makes Miranda look terrible.

840
00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

841
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: And at the end, Brady wound up living with his

842
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,719
dad and Miranda kind of shrugs about it. But I'm like, yeah, Miranda,

843
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,320
you really screwed up your relationship with your son and

844
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,400
this and the show is treating it like some funny thing. Now,

845
00:44:57,519 --> 00:44:58,599
you were terrible.

846
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: That guy dancing and acting like an idiot. I mean,

847
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:02,599
what is that?

848
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: What is that? And then the oh, of course, you know,

849
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:10,280
the non binary one is named Epcot, like what what?

850
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,519
And they said Epcot about fifteen times.

851
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, making fun of the whole thing.

852
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, they you know, because gen Z are the rude

853
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,599
and self absorbed and they have weird names and they

854
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,159
don't know what gender they are, and they're just kind

855
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:27,000
of shit in your toilet, like that whole toilet seem

856
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:29,840
was because Epcot was lactose intolerant, and they kept making

857
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,840
a point of having him go to the bathroom. So

858
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,280
the end of the series was Miranda gen X, Miranda

859
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:45,079
literally dealing with gen Z queer shit. It's so offensive

860
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:47,320
to me, Why why are you even doing this?

861
00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: It's offensive. I mean, what's the point of even having

862
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,559
these characters.

863
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:55,199
Speaker 1: Or the loathing that he had for these characters from

864
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,920
the minute they entered the scene. It was just it

865
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,320
made me really, really uncomfortable. And again, you can do

866
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,960
a show about, you know, say, gen X people being

867
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000
befuddled or annoyed by younger generations. That's the tale as

868
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:09,719
old as time, and you can do that and be

869
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,880
really funny about it. You can even do that and

870
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,840
make fun of the younger generation. But that was so

871
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:19,320
mean spirited and so awful that I was like, there's

872
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,599
nothing funny about this. You are just dragging what you

873
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:27,519
think are stereotypical gen Z people on screen and making

874
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:29,960
them look as bad as you can make them for

875
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:32,079
no reason. This is supposed to be the finale. I

876
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:33,760
don't know who any of these people are. Why are

877
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,880
we spending time with since? Yeah, well it's because he

878
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,119
hates young people. Yeah, that's the bottom line. And one

879
00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:41,800
thing we said last week when we were talking about

880
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,320
this show is how defensive it's been. Oh yeah, and

881
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,960
that has always been one of its biggest problems is

882
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,440
that it was defensive about the fact that the original

883
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,519
show received a lot of righteous criticism about things like

884
00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:57,280
it being too white and too shallow. And that's fine

885
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,960
if you want to address that, But as the show

886
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,320
went on, it was clear that the sh I was

887
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,119
very defensive about certain things, and in the end it

888
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:08,920
became very defensive about aging, where it the last few

889
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,079
minutes of this franchise, are just you attacking young people

890
00:47:12,119 --> 00:47:15,400
for no reason. This was not what Sex and the

891
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,639
City was about. And up until this last couple episodes,

892
00:47:18,679 --> 00:47:20,480
I didn't think it was necessarily what this show was.

893
00:47:20,639 --> 00:47:24,159
Speaker 2: What shocks me is that they act like they're shocked

894
00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:27,039
that people are criticizing the show, that the show and

895
00:47:27,199 --> 00:47:29,719
go well, they all give interviews, and that's the vibe

896
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,679
that I get every single time. First of all, they're

897
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,880
very defensive, and then they had they make states in

898
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,119
bullshit sayment like oh, well, we intended it to be

899
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,280
that way. We wanted people to feel, you know, confused

900
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:45,639
and alienated. Your yeah, exactly, and then this whole idea

901
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,519
like he Michael Patrick King gave an interviews saying, oh,

902
00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:51,719
we knew it, we knew we were done when we

903
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,519
finished the episode. No, no, you didn't.

904
00:47:53,559 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, No way, I'm hell.

905
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,599
You wanted the final scene of Carrie to be sadly,

906
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,679
sadly lip syncing in her apartment.

907
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.

908
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: It was such a And that's the other thing. The

909
00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:11,159
view of singlehood is so sad like this again, this

910
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,920
is what made me think, what does Carrie do? Like, Okay,

911
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,079
she doesn't have a man, Does that mean she just

912
00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:19,079
has to get dressed on, walk around her home sadly alone,

913
00:48:19,559 --> 00:48:23,119
go go out and do something travel, yeah, you know,

914
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:23,599
take on.

915
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: A mentor for the last episode intended she'd be in

916
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,559
Paris at a cafe by herself, having the best time

917
00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:32,880
of her life. There are ways to depend I'm on

918
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,079
my own. Yeah, that is just the saddest possible way

919
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:36,760
to pickt it.

920
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,199
Speaker 1: Like, right, are you sure, honey, because you look pretty

921
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,920
lonely to me right now, You're right. It should have

922
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,239
been her getting on a plane or going to Paris,

923
00:48:44,639 --> 00:48:48,119
going on, speaking to anything, anything at all, to show

924
00:48:48,199 --> 00:48:52,920
that being sixty and rich is actually pretty great. Oh

925
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,840
my god, it's sixty rich and insanely successful in your career.

926
00:48:57,079 --> 00:48:59,159
Speaker 2: What a single with all that money.

927
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: No, but she's gonna sadly sit in her apartment and

928
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:02,920
slip her tea.

929
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:06,679
Speaker 2: Seriously. Yeah, god, you could buy man left and right

930
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,840
in that I know.

931
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: But oh no, Carrie, it has to be the princess

932
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,000
fantasy or whatever. I'm really sorry that things ended this way.

933
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,360
I will say that I'm not entirely convinced that this

934
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,480
is the last we've seen it. Oh no, because I

935
00:49:18,519 --> 00:49:20,840
read she is going to work so hard to get

936
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,000
something else, and he's a movie or something.

937
00:49:23,079 --> 00:49:26,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's already. I read a couple of interviews and

938
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,960
he kind of said like, oh, we don't like to

939
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,159
say it's the end, it's whatever.

940
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to try and get like a screaming

941
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:36,480
movie to wrap this thing up. And in a way,

942
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,760
I wish they would because this is such a terrible ending.

943
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:40,639
Speaker 2: But it's horrible.

944
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish it was someone other than him.

945
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: I know. I mean my idea is to if you

946
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:48,599
love a show and you watch it and it's the

947
00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:52,280
last episode ever, you know you want to just have

948
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,519
a great time. You want to enjoy it. You know,

949
00:49:54,559 --> 00:49:58,400
you want to make I don't know, celebrate something you've

950
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,559
been watching for a long time. But no, I angry

951
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:02,639
the entire time less not watching it. I was so

952
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,000
annoyed with the whole thing.

953
00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:08,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, just hor Patrell. You knew, Oh my god,

954
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,880
you knew the writing on the wall. She has been so.

955
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,199
Speaker 2: Proved right right, she was right. She didn't want to

956
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,719
do movies, she didn't want to do anything. The show

957
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,440
ended and that was it because she.

958
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: Could tell Michael Patrick King had nothing left to say

959
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:20,639
about Are.

960
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:22,639
Speaker 2: There are other things? Dude? She was treated like shit

961
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,199
by a bunch of them. Yea, you know there's stories

962
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,239
out there. But at the same time, she wanted to

963
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,320
move on, she wanted to do something else, and.

964
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think s JP really needs to consider

965
00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:38,639
how much she wants to fight for this character, because

966
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:42,360
I look at Cynthia Nixon and I'm pretty sure she's

967
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,440
going to get nominated for an Emmy for the guilded Age.

968
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,800
I'm not one hundred percent sure, but she did really

969
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,280
good work. Yeah, I'm pretty sure next year she might

970
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,920
get nominated and her career is fine. And s JP,

971
00:50:53,079 --> 00:50:54,960
you got to cut the ties with this character because

972
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,599
it's going to drag you down if you keep going

973
00:50:57,639 --> 00:51:01,079
back to this well and ruining her over right over again.

974
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,079
So we'll see. I do think there's probably a movie

975
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:06,119
coming down the line, just to wrap all of the

976
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:09,719
stupid shit up, and yeah, we'll watch it. But as

977
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,360
I set a couple of weeks back, this was always

978
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,639
going to be my final season of this show. I

979
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,679
was not going to continue watching the show after this

980
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,320
if it if it continued.

981
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,679
Speaker 2: So yeah, they'll have a movie and it's going to

982
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,400
be Seema's wedding.

983
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: And well, Seema's not getting married. He doesn't believe in WHOA,

984
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,559
but change his mind because he be Anthony's second wedding

985
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:35,719
oh god, yeah, yeah, anyway, anyway, goodbye to all that. Yeah, yes,

986
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:42,920
sorry time. As far as I'm concerned, the story of

987
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,000
all of these characters ended in City Hall when she

988
00:51:46,159 --> 00:51:47,800
married Big, and that was the last time we saw

989
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,840
any of them at the end of the first movie.

990
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:52,599
Everything that has happened after that, I'm sorry, that's fan fiction.

991
00:51:52,639 --> 00:51:53,880
It never happened to my birth.

992
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,559
Speaker 2: I like the first show, and that's it. That's that's

993
00:51:57,639 --> 00:51:58,400
the first movie.

994
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: I thought the first movie was fine because you know,

995
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:04,840
it had the whole culmination of her ship was big

996
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,000
and everything, and it finally paid off. So anyway, that's it.

997
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:11,239
That's all we have to say about that. We'll be

998
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,480
back next week with whatever crosses the rise acrosses our desks.

999
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:15,840
Until then, take care of yourselves, love you mean it.

1000
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 2: Bye bye by