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Speaker 1: Meaning a light man like this man letting butterfly flapping

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his wing big down in a forest. Man, it gonna

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cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. Man,

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nobody seen it. Nobody else.

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Speaker 2: See.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to know many like you followed another

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story and you got back in fact, that man got

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black to name on the panel.

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Speaker 2: Man, man, you don't don't matter many All right, Doctor

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Ed Dutton, Welcome back to the Jay Burden Show. How

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are you doing.

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Speaker 1: Hello, good to see you again. I'm going to see you.

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Speaker 2: Again, definitely glad to have you back on. So, in

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the time since we spoke last, you've released a new

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book on a subject I am personally very interested in,

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that is Quakers. So where we get into the meat

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of it. What interested you about the subject?

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Speaker 1: Well, what sparked it was there was a particular organization

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called something like the Center for Countering Digital Hate. And

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who's funding this organization? Well, a lot of your right

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aid friends, a lot of your very online right wing.

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Speaker 3: Friends, are likely to say, uh, it's the Jews, the Jews,

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it's this, it's this, It's this knee jerk reaction that

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you get if you end up due to due to

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the Internet and due to the perization of society and a.

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Speaker 1: Right wing echo chamber. And yeah, there's a degree to

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which that's true. But there's also other groups that are

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funding it, such as Roundtree and what are they Well,

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they are a Quaker company that makes chocolate and sweets

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and things like that. And there are other groups that

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were funding it as well, and these were also Quaker groups.

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And actually the influence that the Quakers kind of fly

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under the radar when it comes to people that are

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into conspiracy theories and they want to look at this

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idea there's a conspiracy of rich, influential people that are

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funding the left and trying to destroy Western civilization and whatever.

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And they always talk about Jewish interests. Of course, your

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friend has heard of the Rothschilds, of course, but has

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he heard of Barclay's Bank, Has he heard of Gurney's Bank?

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Has he heard of Lloyd's Bank? And all of these

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organizations are Quaker, and in particular, Cadbury and Rowntree do

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a great deal to fund left wing, left wing stuff

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and they are Quaker. And so I thought, why is

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it that this group just because they come across as

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pat they talk about being pacifist, and they talk about

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and all all this kind of thing. Nobody really bothers

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about them, but they should because their influence on basically

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subversion that there isn't There isn't a left wing campaign

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in the last three hundred years really that hasn't had

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Quakers behind it. And all they really do is left

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wing campaigns. If you compare them to Jewish people, there

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are many Jews that have contributed to right wing kind

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of ideas. Benjamin Dosraally, the arch imperialist was Jewish, or

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Hernstein and Murray, Well, they look at race differences and

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so forth. Well, Hernstein was Jewish. And there are many

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Jews that have won Nobel Prizes for science and so

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forth and have contributed a great deal to Western civilization.

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But with the Quakers, all you really have is left

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wing subversion. So why is nobody focusing on them? So

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that's kind of what inspired.

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Speaker 2: Well And I mean to that point, I believe even

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relatively large charities like oxfam as as far as I understand,

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some Quaker roots to it. And in the US, this

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history is equally as long. I mean, you have sort

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of conical you know, elements to this, like for instance,

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The whole reason that my ethnic group got brought to

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America is because they needed someone to fight the Indians

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because the Quakers wouldn't do. But you have much more

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serious instances like even the even the New England Puritans

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couldn't stand these people. They kept kicking them out because

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they were impossible to be around.

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Speaker 1: This is a very good point. So let's take what

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Let's take one point after the other. So what ethnic

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group are you talking about? By the way that it's

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your group.

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Speaker 2: You call us a Scott's Irish. Here we're border What.

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Speaker 1: Was what was going on during the period when Benjamin

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Franklin was living in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania was founded by Penn.

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Penn was a Quaker convert from a very wealthy father.

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He in he had his Charles, the King, Charles second,

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the restored King, owed all this money to Penn's father

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within Penn's father, and so this was this very wealthy

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man goes down into Pennsylvania and what is now Delaware

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and he founds this this Quaker colony, and then we

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are under Quaker rules. I think there was the death

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penalty for murder, but otherwise it was extraordinarily liberal and

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so forth. And constitutionally pacifist. And then you get into

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a situation where England, of which America is a part,

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is what the states are apart, is at war, whether

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I think it was at the French uh and and

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the thease of Americans ally with the French and start

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invading Pennsylvania and killing people in killing the Scots Irish.

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In fact, the Scott's Irish planters and the Scot's Irish

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planters flee to the capital of Pennsylvania and beg those

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who are running Pensylvania help, and they say, no, we

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can't do that. No, we're pacifist, we can't do that,

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and so and so and so. In the end you

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end up in a situation where Benjamin Franklin helps to

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bring about a sort of private army, and in the

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end those that were in charge of Pennsylvania resign and

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go into just being religious and not being involved in

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politics because they won't stand up, they won't fight against

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even those that are invading and killing people within the

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Quaker state that was Pennsylvania. It's extraordinary. And then the

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other case you look at is that the other Puritan colonists. Yeah,

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you've got a colony and that colony is having to

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fight outside as it's having to fight Native Americans and

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so forth and so and they're killing them, and so

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of course you need law and order, and so what

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do they say? What does this woman I think her

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name was maryder what does she what does she argue?

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She argues in favor of this kind of antiinomianism where

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basically there's no law in order, there's no law, there's

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no laws, there's nothing that unites us together. There's nothing

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that holds us together. There's no positive and negative ethnocentrism.

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There's just God inspires me with my ideas. And that's right,

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because God inspires me with them. I have what's called

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the inner light. God is in me, and I will

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do what I like. Now I'm not, of course, these

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were people of their time. It's very brutal. They hanged

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very dire in the end, in the end. But but

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but she was so in chaos within a community that

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needs to hold together against the enemy at the gate

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that is killing it. Now, whether you think that it's

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morally right or wrong, they're taking Native American land as

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a different issue. But assuming that you side with the colonists,

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they've got to defend themselves. This is chaos. They threw

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her out, they made her leave. She went back to England.

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They made it quite clear to her that she was

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exiled and she was not to come back to the colony.

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And she comes back just just so she can be

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a martyr, just so she can be executed, I would argue.

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But by the way, there's good. There's good research indicates

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that martyrdom is a kind of maladaptive form of narcissism.

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And I strongly suspect that what you get with a

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lot of these people, you get a lot of people

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on the left anyway, is they are relatively high in narcissism.

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They deal with their negative feelings or whatever by telling

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themselves that they are superior to everybody else, and in particular,

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they are more moral than everybody else. They are more

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as it were, godly sometimes than everybody else, to the

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extent that that that need for narcissistics apply can literally

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be fulfilled by by martyrdom. I mean, there's worse than that.

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There's the the universal uh, the what's it called now,

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the the Universal Friend.

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Speaker 2: This was a universal friend, Yes, this was.

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Speaker 1: This was in Rhode Island. So they preempted. Everything on

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the modern wote left. Everything you can think of is preempted,

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is precursored by Quakers, even transfer exuality. And what you

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have with Public Universal Friend was this woman that has

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a bit of a breakdown, essentially, that has a bit

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of a mental breakdown, and she comes back from this

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declaring that she's neither male nor female. She's she's not anything.

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She is she is Public Universal Friend. And she would

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get incredibly angry, the same way that trans women get

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angry if you address them by as men or by

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the wrong pronoun. She would get incredibly angry she was

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addressed as a female or addressed by her original name,

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it was her dead name, and she would demand that

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she'd be addressed as what she was, which was public

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Universal Friend. Fascinatingly, in the Wikipedia article about her, they

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don't use the pronoun she. They use the pronoun friend,

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which which which, which just tells you the extent to

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which the Quakers were this ideal, like, what is this

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idea of the inner light? This is this is the

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fundamental idea in Quakerism that God is God, isn't something

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outside us that can guide us or whatever God is

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in us, and so there's a sense in which it's

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almost pantheism, that there's a sense in which or gnosticism,

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there's a sense in which we are God, and therefore

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what we do is what God wants us to do

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because it is God's will, because we are God. The

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only way you can define your own sex and say

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I am male, I am female because I say I

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am is if you believe that there is really no

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true objective reality, and that we are all little I

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am the reality, You are your reality. We are all

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little sparks of divine light in a world of darkness,

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where we are I am that I am, I define

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what I am. And that idea, that woke idea is

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there is germinating already in the public universal friend, and

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not just in the public universal friends, but in other

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other people within Quakerism as well, This whole idea, even

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that the idea that they are sinless, we can talk

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about that. And is there in Quakerism that you are God?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's one thing you mentioned briefly when speaking about

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Pennsylvania that I want to bring up, because this is

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an abiding character of the Quaker, which is their attitude

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towards crime and punishment from a very early early stage

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opposing the death penalty, of course, but also our concept

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of reformatory prisons in itself is deeply tied to Quakerism.

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It's sort of an interesting aside, if you have anything

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to add.

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Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, well, it's it's just it's just one of

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it's just one of many examples of whatever it is.

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I would suggest, I would I put it. I'd take

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a sort of a much broader view, what almost like

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an evolutionary view. What is going on with Quakerism. You

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have this particular period of time in the wake of

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the Civil War or during the Civil War, where it's

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a very time to be alive. It's extremely cold, things

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are getting much colder. The population is getting too high

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for the amount of the agricultural land that you can

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deal with, which is one of the reasons why you

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have all these people fleeing to the United States and

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the colonies and so on. You have the Civil War itself,

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and then the interregnum, the Republic, which turns everything on

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its head, the abolition of bishops, all kinds of stuff.

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It's a crazy world. It's an unstable world. It's a

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frightening world. I don't think it's any coincidence that you

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get the witch craze at exactly that time as well.

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And also when people are high in mortality saliens, and

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when people are uncertain, and when there's political uncertainty, people

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become much much more religious and much much more religiously fervent,

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and you get these kinds of religious experiences, and you

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get people going through phases of very intense religious fervor,

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and that's what you see with Quakerism. And so you

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just have this man that's an educated man, the shoemaker

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called Jorge Box, who's incredibly charismatic and inspiring and so on,

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I'm sure, and the law and orders breaking down because

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normally you had to have a license to preach and

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things like that, but it can't really be enforced because

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it's just chaos. So he's able to go around preaching

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in the countryside, and he takes everything, every tradition, everything

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that holds society together, every example as it were, of

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positive ethnocentrism, everything that's uniting, and attacks it and now

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in favor of essentially equality. That's what he goes on

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on about equality, which is of course damaging to the

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group as a whole because it's the group that's high

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in positive and negative ethnocentrism, according to concluding models, which

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tends to dominate other groups. But it emerges at that

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time of chaos where you have to find a niche.

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You have to find a niche where you can basically

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pass on your genes. And so what is your niche?

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If you're in the middle, you're in the middle, you're

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middling sort, you're up against it. You've got to find

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a way of getting ahead of getting a bit more well. Obviously,

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as we see now, what you can do is virtue

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signal or purity signal. You fear a fair fight, so

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you virtue signal or you purity signal, and thus you

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covertly play for status. And that's the essence of Quakerism.

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It's that you virtue signal about equality and harb avoidance

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in a society which does value those things. Because we

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are pack animals, we value equality, individual interests to quality, harboroids,

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but also group or into things. But you such as

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the medisa, authority, tradition, sanctity, whatever. But you focus on

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those things and you covertly play for status, and you

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cloak yourself in this idea that oh I'm just so kind,

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I'm so wonderful, I'm a pacifist, I'm nonviolent. And this

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of course allows you manipulatively to get past the immune

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system of everybody else and thus attain slightly more status,

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slightly more resources. And this is what they do. And

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I think that if you look at the psychology of

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the kind of people that are attracted at times of

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crisis to these new religious movements, they're very high in Euroticism.

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They tend to be very mentally unstable, and they need

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something that makes absolute sense, and they feel bad about themselves,

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so they need a way of feeling superior to others.

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And one way they can feel superior to others, and

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Quakerism offers this is by feeling that they are morally

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superior to others, by telling themselves they are morally perfect.

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God indeed is in them. They are God in a sense.

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How much more perfect can you feel? And that's what

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Quacarism allows them to do. So it would have attracted

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in the first instance. I think these people that were

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quite mentally unstable and thus quite therefore kind of developed

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to kind of narcissism, essentially, a kind of grandiose narcissism,

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uh and and but it worked as an evolutionary niche

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because yes, some of them would be persecuted and whatever,

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and there would be problems and George Fox spent time

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in prison and so on. But broadly it allowed an

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evolutionary space to be created where they could kind of

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play for status via their virtue signaling and people and

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people let by the more anti social aspects of that signaling,

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like how like how now we overlook the far left

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gluing themselves to roads and and things like this. We

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kind of let them get away with it because they

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appeal to this idea. Well, look, we're peaceful, We're such peaceful,

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kind weak people, but they're not really. And that's I

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think the space that they they carved out. And then

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they marry in and until I think was it the

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eighteen sixties, they had to marry in or they would

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be thrown out of their community. So they marry other

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people like them, and so you end up almost with

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a proto sub ethnic group among the among the English

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genetically English people of the UK of Britain, America, under

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a few other places.

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Speaker 2: Well to that point, both this pattern of effectively social

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virtue signaling and also radical egalitarianism. When you see that

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in the current Quaker order of worship, you can put

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quotes around order of worship because basically what they do

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is they have these large rooms, the benches facing in

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and the order of worship is silence until someone is

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led by the light to speak out. And in effect,

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what that is is a it is a public place

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for social progressives to signal their values. I mean quite literally,

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as someone who's been to these services, you will hear

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yesterday's NPR special repeated almost blow for blow, and everyone,

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of course, you know, congratulates themselves about how brave they

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are to be talking about at the time I went

301
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kids in cages. And of course, you know, if you're

302
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a cynically minded fellow, you might say, well, was that

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the light or was that you know, National Public broadcast.

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Speaker 1: There's something so dishonest about it because in normal churches,

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I mean the way he would condemn hierarchy, George Fox,

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he'd talk about churches as steeple houses. He does that

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priests were completely unnecessary. They'd refuse to engage in any

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acts that indicated hierarchy. They wouldn't doff their hats to

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social superiors. Which is a big thing in those days.

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They wouldn't use the formal version of you as existed

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in those days. They'd only use the informal. They wouldn't

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even use the months of the year because they argued

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these were pagan I think, you know, it was so

314
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extreme things like this. Of course they wouldn't drink. But

315
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it's actually a de facto hierarchy. It's just it's dishonest,

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because of course there's a hierarchy. What happens is the

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more dominant people in the group inevitably will be the

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ones that get up and say things and in these

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silent meetings, and inevitably, inevitably and and so there's a

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de facto hierarchy. There are facto people in charge. If

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you were to do what's called a network analysis and anthropology,

322
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you'd soon find out who was in charge of every

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single one of these Quaker meeting these friends, friends meeting houses.

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So it's it's just it's dishonest, and it's wrapping yourself

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up in the in the cloak of equality and avoiding

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offense and harm, avoidance on whatever, whereas in reality there's

327
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an obvious hierarchy to it. But I mean, yeah, I

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was first that came aware of. It was actually the

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first wedding I went to. I I was twelve years

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old and my friend my dad had a colleague. I

331
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don't know if the colleague. The colleague was of Indian extraction,

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and his wife was Norwegian that spoke very good English,

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and they're both living in the UK, and they had

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a Quaker wedding and then and they said, rather than

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bring us gifts, please bring us something that everybody can share,

336
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which I suppose is nice and fair enough, but there's

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something a bit kind of virtue signaling esque about this,

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isn't there. And so then we go to the wedding

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and it was to just sit there and make their

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vows in silence, and occasionally one man and it was

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one man, a very clearly socially dominant, quite tall, muscular

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man in his early sixties, we get up and say something, Oh,

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I just think love is so amazing, and it's amazing

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this gift God has given us or whatever. And then

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the mother of the bride, who was also I assume

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was also a Quaker, because she'd made very little effort

347
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with her appearance considering it was a daughter's wedding, and

348
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who was Norwegian. But then just get up and go

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hold hold, hold, hold the hold of holder, hold the

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hold of hold, translating it for the Norwegian guests. And

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this would go on throughout the hour. And then they

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were married, and I thought to myself, hang on a minute,

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this idea that we're all equal and sitting in silence. No,

354
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it's a very specific kind of guy. I actually thought

355
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to myself, Oh, he must be the vicar, because I

356
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didn't know anything about Quaker asm I was twelve years old.

357
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He must be the vicar. But for some ready sits

358
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at the bath. Yes.

359
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Speaker 2: So, friend of mine, Johann Kurz wrote a book Leaving

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a Legacy, which is primarily about tracking how families pass

361
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on wealth through generations. Right, so obviously he looks at,

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you know, the English nobility, and then as an American example,

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he tracks the sort of wasp aristocracy. But he makes

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a very int resting comparison between the you know, the

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sort of blue bloods of New England and what elite

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there was in Quaker country. And what he basically said

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is that you do not see the same sort of

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signals of wealth. You don't see as many of these

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grand estates you don't see fortunes past. Generationally, that does

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happen in those areas, but it tends to have occurred

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much later. Right, So for instance, you have you know,

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famous families like the Vanderbilts and others, but that was

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primarily a late nineteenth early twentieth century feature, whereas that

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had been happening from the beginning of places like Massachusetts.

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And he particularly talks about the Quaker ideas of sort

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of patrimony in secession, that they had very firm beliefs

377
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about distributing everything equally and well, much like Haiti, it

378
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didn't go particularly well.

379
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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Wealth tended to dissipate because instead of being concentrated enough

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to be useful, it was split out among everyone's descendants.

382
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And I think that again, if we're talking about that

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theme of radical equality, it's interesting to see how that

384
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affects something even down to how do rich people act.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's very interesting. So it implies that enforced

386
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equality will ultimately cause problems for you, and it's not

387
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it's not inherently a good thing. Now it from their perspective,

388
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it is inherently a good thing because it allows them

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to virtue signal and it allows them to covertly gain

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status or to covit or to use that COVID means

391
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to gain narcissistic supply, which they might see as a

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good in itself, and to feel better than other people.

393
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But in terms of the practicalities of running a society,

394
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it is clearly not a good thing. The Quakers would

395
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have opposed and did a posse. They refuse to fight

396
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their pacifists, so they go on about the terrors of

397
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the far right. Now they fund the far left. They've

398
00:22:02,039 --> 00:22:05,079
literally fund the extreme left, that group like in the UK,

399
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,480
groups like Hope Not Hate and whatever. These Quaker organizations

400
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,200
are funding them. But if the Quakers had there, if

401
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,200
everybody was a Quaker or the Nazis would just have

402
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:17,000
invaded Britain, wouldn't they, And Britain would have just would

403
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,400
have been a national socialist state and King Edward the

404
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,559
Eighth would have been the king and Oswald Moseley would

405
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have been the Prime Minister. That's what would have happened.

406
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Which is so if everyone does what they do, then

407
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the society would just be invaded by them. Just be

408
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:33,799
Mighty's right, and society would just be invaded by the

409
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:38,319
most dominant kind of warlike group. That is what would happen,

410
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which shows you that they are basically hypocrites, and that is,

411
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this is a specific niche that they've carved out in

412
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,799
order to optimize their own good and their own status

413
00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:57,200
within the psychological constraints that they operate under. And it's

414
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,640
very similar with the Amish, who are related to the

415
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,920
Quake and of course live in Pennsylvania. They're theologically related

416
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,920
to the Quakers. They're an of Baptists. The William penn

417
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,720
invited those kinds of people to Pennsylvania as well. If

418
00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:15,119
everybody operated like the old Order armors from were all Pacifists,

419
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well then Pennsylvania would of course be invaded. And if

420
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everyone operated like them, and there were splits in the

421
00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:25,440
Quakers because of this, the United States of America would

422
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,720
never have existed. It would just remain under the tyranny

423
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of King George. And there were Quakers that broke away.

424
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They did they called themselves New Quakers or something they

425
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called themselves during the Revolutionary War. Who are you know

426
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:42,720
that the American States are, you know, God's own land.

427
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,759
The American States are the new Godly Messiah, beacon on

428
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the hill. Whatever and we have to fight for it.

429
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,440
We have to fight for it. And if we don't

430
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,440
fight for it, we will lose it, and we won't

431
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,440
be able to create this wonderful religious community of godly

432
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,039
people that we want. We've got a fight for it.

433
00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:03,880
And of course they were thrown out of their meeting

434
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,160
houses and whatever and and and created new Quaker sects.

435
00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,119
It's it's, it's, it's it's the whole purpose being that

436
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,440
black and white having that idea. Oh no, we must

437
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:20,319
be pacifist always. It is a means of covert or

438
00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:25,359
even COVID just expressing to people your utter goodness and

439
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,559
and and hoping that that that will give you a

440
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,839
certain amount of status and a certain amount of regard.

441
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,680
But it's not practical. Not everyone can do that. And

442
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then if it did, it would everything would fall apart,

443
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:39,920
which shows you the fundamental problem with Quaker and its

444
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,480
ideas spreading throughout society. Prison reform. You mentioned it earlier.

445
00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:49,319
Elizabeth Fry began this Nay Gurney as in Fries Chocolates,

446
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,680
another chocolate company, uh began this uh this process in

447
00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:56,680
England and spread it to America. What does it mean?

448
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,039
It means the prisons are just easier places to be.

449
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,599
What goods that to society that the prison should deter people,

450
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,559
Prisons should be in act justice on people. Prison would

451
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,960
be nice places. But but the prison reform and it's

452
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:13,000
it's every single left wing thing you can think of.

453
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And people go on about the Jews. You know, they

454
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:18,279
wouldn't be Jews in it, very possibly in England if

455
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:21,599
it wasn't for the Quakers. The quake. The Quakers had

456
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,119
this were very proto Semitic, as are a lot of

457
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,240
Protestant groups and that. And Cromwell was very impressed by

458
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:31,960
George Fox. So he met him about three times. He

459
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:33,960
was very impressed by him. He asked to see him

460
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all this kind of thing, even though he had in jail.

461
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He was very impressed by him and moved by him.

462
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,200
I didn't suppose that Cromwell was a secret Quaker, but

463
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:43,680
he was certainly sympathetic and it was and it was

464
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the and it was it was the quake because the

465
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:47,559
Quakers were too love staated for someone like Cromwell. I'm

466
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:51,359
sure the gentry that he was certainly sympathetic towards them,

467
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,000
and uh and and they were they were sending missionaries

468
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:59,960
over to Amsterdam to try and encourage Jews to Ashkenazi Jews,

469
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,000
not sorry, Sophardi Jews to come to come to the UK,

470
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so that you could argue that there's quite a close relationship.

471
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:12,559
The parallels with the Jews in the Quaker's quite interesting actually,

472
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:15,039
because you both you have both groups that are outside

473
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:17,759
the norm. Both are very tight knit groups that high

474
00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:20,279
levels of trust, which is what you need to develop

475
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:24,920
things like banking and whatever, and and business and and

476
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,200
both are groups that are excluded from the profession, from

477
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,359
the professions, and from the universities and so forced into

478
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,640
the world of business and commerce and so on. So

479
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,000
the parallels are really are really quite interesting. But yeah,

480
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:42,240
this group is it's unsustainable as a group wide ideology

481
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,640
and if it happens, well, then you just get Eventually

482
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,720
you're either you're best tolerated like the Armisha are today

483
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:52,920
tolerated by the larger group, but but you can easily

484
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,880
be you're completely reliant on them.

485
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,599
Speaker 2: Well it it genuinely is in a social sense, parasitic behavior.

486
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,720
You were depending on the host for your sustenance, right,

487
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:08,200
sort of bringing in the sort of blood stream of

488
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,119
society while not contributing to its defense. And this is

489
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,240
something that's it's quite easy to say about the Amish

490
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,400
in wider culture because they are the Amish are not

491
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,680
generally speaking regarded positively, especially by the people who live

492
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,480
around them, because they tend to be clannish and difficult

493
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:32,559
to deal with. They also act in a much it's

494
00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:35,039
sort of a minor version of the Somali problem as well.

495
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,599
But with the Quakers, they function in a similar role,

496
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,799
this sort of parasitic role, but have an outsized cultural influence.

497
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:47,200
So in a lot of media. You know, a popular

498
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,680
film a while back, Hacksaw Ridge, which was you know,

499
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,079
telling the story of a conscientious objector in the Second

500
00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:55,200
World War who admittedly acted quite heroically he saved a

501
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,640
number of men as a medic. But nonetheless, that is

502
00:27:58,759 --> 00:28:04,079
the wide public perception of Quakers to the point where.

503
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: I believe I was going to say, but yeah, you

504
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,559
make an excellent point. The Amish, I can say, even

505
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:14,720
from my brief time spent in intercourse Pennsylvania and such

506
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:18,440
like places, they're not very friendly, not not the old

507
00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:21,359
order harbors. With the Mennonites. I found the Mennonites perfect friendly.

508
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:23,839
Speaker 2: Oh, the med Knights are great yeah, but.

509
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: The the they're probably passed just as well. But they're

510
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,279
but the old order harbish. They don't seem to be

511
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,680
very friendly, they don't seem to be very intelligent, and

512
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,000
and you know they're kind of but they keep they

513
00:28:35,079 --> 00:28:37,519
keep out of things, as you say, they don't interfere

514
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:41,119
in politics. They don't. They keep themselves themselves. They have

515
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,240
their own kind of areas. And the worst is going

516
00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:44,880
to happen as you get stuck behind a horse and

517
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,440
cart on a road you can't ever take it, or

518
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,279
something driving in the country side. Fortunately, American roads are

519
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,039
wider than the UK roads, so it's not that much

520
00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:54,400
of a problem. But but with the Quakers, it's a

521
00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:59,759
very similar relationship. It's a bit like, I don't know

522
00:28:59,839 --> 00:29:04,359
how a woman who who lives off you, who she

523
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,519
doesn't work her herself, he'sn't doing herself. She just she

524
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,440
just she just lives off you. And and the way

525
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,720
that she manipulates you is by saying, oh, well, look

526
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:16,559
I'm so helpless. You know, she brings out your desire

527
00:29:16,599 --> 00:29:19,960
to protect her or something like that. But but but

528
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,559
but at this is what they're like. I'm a passiveist.

529
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,720
I can't I'm helpless. But they're heavily interfere in a

530
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:32,039
left wing direction in politics, up to and including funding

531
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:37,160
extreme left groups that want to bring down or ordered

532
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:43,000
traditional functioning society, and even just committing crimes. I mean

533
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,680
there was there have been cases in the UK, and

534
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,640
it was Quakers about breaking into airports and messing around

535
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,680
with machinery and things like this. And when prosecuted for this,

536
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:54,680
they turn around and say, oh, well, you're interfering with

537
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,480
our right, our ability to worship, because they see their

538
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:03,960
worship as involving following. They're inner light I following their conscience,

539
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,480
and you're interfering with that, and therefore you're interfering with

540
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:09,759
their worship. So you have this group that that has

541
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:11,559
with I mean, yeah, there are some Quakers. Don't get me,

542
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,720
don't misunderstand me. This is a this is a group.

543
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:15,279
A whole group of people were talking about. There's some

544
00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:19,359
Quakers that don't apps some good. There are various Flams

545
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,119
and Swan. I rather like them. Their English musical duo

546
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,680
from the sixties and seventies, guy called Donald Swan. He

547
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,400
was a Quaker in the war. Before he was a Quaker,

548
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,640
he was a calm changed subjector drove an ambulance in

549
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,119
very dangerous areas. So you know, let's not all of them,

550
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,920
but but but that that's the the general movement among

551
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,000
the Quakers is in that direction. It's left wing subversion.

552
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:43,480
So it is biting the hand that eats it, that

553
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,960
feeds it. It's biting the hand that feeds it. And

554
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,279
the question is how hard will that hand be said

555
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:52,279
to be bitten before it before it with draws the

556
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:55,839
hand and says no. And the answers from the history

557
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,079
of the Quakers is for some reason, because of their

558
00:30:58,079 --> 00:31:00,480
pacifism and because of their you know, they're good pr

559
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,440
machine and whatever, is very very hard indeed.

560
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: Well and and to that point, there are several prominent

561
00:31:09,319 --> 00:31:14,480
American Quaker charities. But just as an example, right, if

562
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,960
you go to the website for the Friends Committee on

563
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:21,599
National Legislation, right, and by the way, if you have

564
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,160
a certain eye going through a lot of the revelations

565
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,039
from the first year of DOGE, going around kind of

566
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:30,799
tracking that network, you will find this organization and others

567
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,359
throughout it. And some of the issues you know, would

568
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,440
not surprise you, talking about you know, peace building, ending wars,

569
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,960
which from the Quakers, you'd expect, But if you're a

570
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,079
right winger, pick just about any issue you were passionate about.

571
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,079
They're on the wrong side of it, right, So so

572
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,119
they talk a lot about you know, electoral justice, criminal justice,

573
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,400
immigration justice, gun violence, prevention, you know, all of these

574
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,240
issues that you know, if you were all aware of

575
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,759
how left wing activists work, you understand that just because

576
00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:07,440
those are a string of relatively positive words, they have

577
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,240
a very different definition of justice than you do. So

578
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:13,680
it is quite literally any issue that sort of engages

579
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,680
the average.

580
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: In the UK, they passed this rule stating that the

581
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,119
definition of sex was biological. The legal definition of sex

582
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,759
was biological, and therefore if single sex spaces are provided,

583
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,160
that means biologically biological sex. And the Quakers have made

584
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,240
it clear that in their friends' houses they will just

585
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:43,720
ignore this and we'll just let transsexuals use female spaces

586
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:45,839
whatever they made it. Absolutely they won't but they won't

587
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,440
do that. They won't follow that. So even down to

588
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,519
things like sexuality, which you would normally expect people that

589
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,720
were religious to be quite conservative about, but no, they are,

590
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,279
as the public Universal Friend gives is an example, No,

591
00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:07,200
they they are. They are not every vegetarianism. Uh, any

592
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:11,079
issue you can possibly think of, they will they will

593
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:14,559
take a left wing perspective, and which is why you

594
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:16,480
don't get many right. Well, I mean, Richard Nixon was

595
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:18,160
raised a Quaker, but I don't think he was a

596
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,920
practicing Quaker, and.

597
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: There wasn't particularly devout either.

598
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: No, So that's that's about it. There's one obscure MP

599
00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:28,640
in the UK who was known as the dissenting Dissenter

600
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,400
because he was right wing, but he was a Quaker,

601
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,359
called rich Body as a member of part Conservative, of

602
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,519
a part far right Conservative. But otherwise it's it's always,

603
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:41,880
it's almost always this this, this left wing version on

604
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,839
any issue, and in America as well and Australia just

605
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,920
anywhere where they're present. If you go to a Quaker

606
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,359
meeting house these days, you will probably see Palestine flags

607
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,119
and rainbow flags in the in the windows.

608
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: So, Ed, I am familiar with the sort of pro

609
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:04,200
file of the American Quaker unfortunately I've come into contact

610
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,559
with them before. But in your nation, at a very

611
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:11,000
basic level, what are Quakers like, like, what part of

612
00:34:11,079 --> 00:34:13,199
society do they come from? How can we describe them?

613
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: Well, I suppose they they're in there. Almost all religious

614
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,880
people are middle class. These days, working class people don't

615
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,800
tend to be involved in any any kind of organized religion,

616
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,360
so they're probably likely to be lower middle indeed mainly

617
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,960
probably upper middle class, often because they're going to be

618
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,239
connected to these families, these industrialist families that emerge during

619
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,400
the Industrial Revolution. The Fries they into they often all

620
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:45,800
interrelated as well, the Fries, the round Trees, the Cadburys, uh,

621
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,440
these these groups of the Lloyd's and and so on,

622
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,000
all of these groups of interrelated people that are involved

623
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,039
in Barclays, that are involved in banking, and that are

624
00:34:57,079 --> 00:35:00,199
involved in finance, and that are involved in industry. And

625
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,280
so that's really the essence, that's the core of the Quakers.

626
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,440
So upper middle class. I suppose you'd say that you

627
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,480
occasionally get prominent people that come up that you find

628
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,599
the Quakers in things like acting. There was a famous

629
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:15,760
actor called Paul Eddington, for example, that was in something

630
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,920
called Yes Minister and something called The Good Life. There's

631
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,760
various other prominent actors and people like David the Herd

632
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,559
of Blurs, Bangle Blur, a guy called David album Quaker.

633
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,840
There's a Green Party member of Parliament that's Quaker. So

634
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,199
it's it's it's it's generally upper middle class, left wing

635
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:37,519
sort of people's that's that's how they operate, that's the

636
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,519
and their influence on society in terms of the influence

637
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:43,559
of banking has been substantial. I mean, if you think

638
00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:48,039
about how in seventeen forty five that you have the

639
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:51,960
pretenders of the throne, the Catholic line from James the

640
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,400
second attend to the throne, you got very close to invading,

641
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,119
invading the whole of England. They got as far south

642
00:35:57,159 --> 00:35:59,639
as Derby before that, which is in England before the

643
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:04,239
middle before they turned tail and fled. And the city

644
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:10,119
was was heavily influenced of course by both Jews, uh

645
00:36:10,159 --> 00:36:13,119
and and and also and and and and also Quakers,

646
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:15,039
and they put a great deal of money into the

647
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:18,199
into the campaign to ensure that that this this The Whigs,

648
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,239
that those were the more liberal group, you know, didn't

649
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,960
didn't permit this to happen, didn't permit this invasion that

650
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,360
would have happened. That was supported by the High Tories,

651
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,519
the Conservatives, those that were in favor of the King

652
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:33,159
over parliament. So even then it's very liberal politics that

653
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,280
they were by the stands of the day, that the

654
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,800
Quakers were involved in them, were behind and were and

655
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,920
were funding that. Nobody. Everyone really has a kind of

656
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,440
positive view of them in the media. Nobody really talks

657
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,920
about them. Nobody really discusses what they get up to

658
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,239
and to the extent that they do. You just highlight

659
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,679
examples of perfectly charming people that are Quakers, such as

660
00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:56,480
Donald Swan I mentioned earlier, or Oliver Postgate, who was

661
00:36:56,519 --> 00:37:00,599
behind these Children's a sort of puppet series. I put

662
00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:05,239
some Klangners, Paul Eddington, the acts I mentioned earlier, And

663
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,119
there's there's some there's there's a sort of others that

664
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,559
I favous Quakers that I listed my book. But as

665
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:13,000
a rule, they're all quite they're all quite left wing.

666
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:16,519
It's middle class left wing activism, of which is at

667
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:20,039
these Palestine marches are a good example of which which

668
00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:22,960
happen every week. Uh And and a segment is going

669
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:23,960
to be Quakers.

670
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 2: One of the interesting dynamics in America that you see

671
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,599
with Quakers, and this really is downstream, a very fundamental

672
00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:37,599
difference between your country and mind. America is still on

673
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:42,880
a global scale quite religious, and so the Quakers, being

674
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:50,199
both i've middle class and also quite progressive, exist in

675
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:58,719
an interesting opposition to the unsophisticated religious morons in quotes,

676
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,159
and so in an interesting way they define themselves in

677
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,199
opposition to American evangelicals. So it is presented as sort

678
00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:09,840
of the thinking man's religion. You know, oh, you can

679
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,079
still go to church, but now you are able to,

680
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,079
you know, dispense with all of that nonsense obviously about

681
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:19,960
you know, Jesus Christ in particular, but also the negative

682
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,800
social stigma of being on the quote unquote wrong side

683
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:30,039
of any progressive issue. And so I mentioned NPR earlier,

684
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,400
but it very much is sort of that class. I

685
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,960
know the people in this group, and they tend to

686
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,159
be sort of like middling academic administrators, you know, the

687
00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:45,239
sort of people who run you know, not particularly prestigious

688
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,440
programs at large state universities. But also many of them

689
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:55,119
work in activism right in nngos at different charitable again

690
00:38:55,199 --> 00:39:00,760
quote unquote institutions, And who knows, who's to say if

691
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,320
this is a function of being middle class or being Quaker,

692
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,639
probably a little bit of both, but they genuinely despise

693
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:10,280
the you know what's referred to as like the Chud

694
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:14,559
or the Gamut, the kind of working class normal brits

695
00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:20,320
Er Americans. And that is a in my mind, defining feature,

696
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,000
particularly as you know, you look into go onto these

697
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:29,039
Quaker websites, read their statements on you know, gun violence,

698
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:32,119
read their statements on war. It is all written in

699
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:36,199
such a way as to distinguish yourself as morally superior

700
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,320
to sort of the hoy POLOI the average man.

701
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the middle class. I mean basically what

702
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,199
we're dealing with, if you want to talk about it. Sociologically,

703
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,800
middle class people tend to combine intelligence with a kind

704
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,840
of pro social personality. And there's an interesting study that

705
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,239
I'm doing at the moment which is replicating other studies,

706
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:01,440
which which finds that basically testoster occupational state is positively

707
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,800
associated with intelligence, and it's negatively associated with testosterone, so

708
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,079
that the higher statues of your occupation and lower on

709
00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:12,800
average testosterone is. So testosterone is masculine, it's associated with dominance,

710
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:18,159
it's associated with drive whatever, and lotus osterone is femine.

711
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:21,679
It's as being cooperative and or that sort of thing.

712
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,960
So you can see how the middle class, the upper

713
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,519
middle class are going to be basically quite quite highly intelligent,

714
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:30,880
which makes you which means that you imbibe the current

715
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,559
set of ideas and you absorb them and then you

716
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:36,519
competively signal them. And the current set of ideas are

717
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:40,039
left wing, so you competitively signal that. Basically, that's what

718
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,440
you're more likely to do if you're middle class, For

719
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,800
if you're intelligent and educated. And secondly, you're going to

720
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,239
be relatively low testosterone if you're middle class, so you're

721
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,199
going to be repelled by right wing kind of stuff

722
00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:54,679
perhaps for that reason as well to some extent, and

723
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,199
you can see that Quagarism is particularly low testosterone, you know,

724
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,280
Pacifism and and all this kind of thing, And so

725
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,920
you're going to get a subgroup within the middle class

726
00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:08,320
to the extent that Quakerism is gets converts, which it does,

727
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,280
but it's obviously partly herelitary as well, that I would

728
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,519
think would be intelligent and very low testosterone and probably

729
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:21,480
a little bit elevated therefore actually in neuroticism and anxiety

730
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,800
and mental instability, and therefore for this subgroup, for whatever reason,

731
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:29,159
it becomes attractive. There's interesting crossovers. A very famous Quaker

732
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:31,559
in the UK is professor of Quaker studies at Birmingham

733
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:35,400
University is called James Pink Dandelion. And this guy was

734
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,119
a hippie and which is the lotus asterone peace man

735
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,119
kind of kind of kind of person. Yeah, And he

736
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:47,440
saw the parallels between Quakerism and hippidam eye peace and

737
00:41:47,559 --> 00:41:50,920
love and no democracy, you just make collective decisions and

738
00:41:51,199 --> 00:41:54,079
this sort of thing. And he found Quakerism very attractive

739
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,159
and the divine and the divine light entered, entered, entered

740
00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,320
into him, and he decided that it's wrong that this

741
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,440
idea that other people name me, who are the people

742
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,039
to name me? And it's also patriarchal, So he renamed

743
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:13,440
himself Pink Dandelion. But this is interesting, this idea of

744
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:15,719
the self and that God is in me and so forth,

745
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,199
I name myself, I define who I am. So it's that,

746
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,079
as you say, it's that kind of wishy was she

747
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:25,079
subset that are also, unlike a lot of hippies, a

748
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,840
bit vaguely religious as well, they're kind of vaguely believing

749
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,840
God and you and you can see that that subset,

750
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,519
although many Quakers don't believe in God, and you can

751
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:37,119
you can see that that subset is is drawn into

752
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:38,599
into Quakerism.

753
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: Well, and that that sort of renaming and redefining personal

754
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,199
identity is a big part of the reason that the

755
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,639
Quakerism and transgenderism or so, I mean, they're joined at

756
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:57,199
the hip. And anecdotally, I know several people brought up

757
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,079
in the Quaker Church, and the vast majority of them

758
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,000
have transitioned. Some of them have just done a double

759
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:05,920
swap where they were dating as men and women and

760
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,400
are now dating as men and women, at which point

761
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,000
it just seems like being straight with extra steps. But

762
00:43:11,079 --> 00:43:14,320
when you combine the sort of person who is involved

763
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,599
in that organization to begin with, right, highly progressive, highly

764
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:21,760
interested in social signaling, and that issue, I mean, having

765
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,320
a transgender child is from that perspective perhaps the best

766
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,519
way to accrue status. Also a for what degree there

767
00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:32,400
is a theological tradition of Quakerism, but will just use

768
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,559
that term is based very much in the idea of

769
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:39,679
self defining and name changing. Well, it's no shock that

770
00:43:40,039 --> 00:43:43,360
a large number of these children come out as being

771
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,960
born in the wrong body. I mean, again, I only

772
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:50,800
have anecdotes, but it's the numbers in that sample set

773
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,920
of twenty odd individuals is dramatic. We're talking well over

774
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,599
a majority.

775
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,079
Speaker 1: Fascinating, and it's not thinking that could even be quite

776
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:01,679
good solved because that many Quakers.

777
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,079
Speaker 2: Especially because most of them lived in the same neighborhood, right,

778
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:06,920
they were all, you know, on the same streets, so

779
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,880
the environmental factors would be minimized at least to some degree.

780
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: The ultimate way that you signal it is something like

781
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,880
it's like you notice that you get very left wing

782
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,280
middle class people, and they signal their left wing middle

783
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,039
classes by adopting a non white child. And it's the ultimate,

784
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:23,280
the ultimate form of social signaling, isn't it that they'll

785
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,079
notice that you've got a child of a different race,

786
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:27,960
or what a good person, what a kind person, what

787
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:32,639
a committed person they are. But really they're socially signaling

788
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,400
with the child. And the reason that they don't want

789
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,760
to adopt a white child is because in general, these days,

790
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,480
white children that are put up for adoption, Whereas it

791
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,960
used to be, you know, a lawyer gets his secretary

792
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,559
pregnant and introduceimacy is so unacceptable. The child's put up

793
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:49,760
for adoption. Now it's going to be drug addicts and

794
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,239
they and they know deep down that these traits are

795
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,599
hereditary and the child is going to be of that

796
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,360
basically psychopic, psychopathic, and they don't want it. Whereas whereas, whereas,

797
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,280
whereas in South America or whatever, a child that gets

798
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,960
put up for adoption, it's much more probably random, much

799
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:09,039
much more that it's an unfair society. And you can

800
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:11,800
still get some quite reasonable people that are very poor

801
00:45:12,039 --> 00:45:13,719
and they have to put their child up for adoption.

802
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:18,679
So it's social signaling. Yeah.

803
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: Well, and and to that point, the communities that are

804
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:27,599
over represented in adoption, at least in America, tend to

805
00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:31,320
be quite religious, and in my own religious community there's

806
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,639
a large amount of adoption, and those dangers are well known.

807
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,840
But the assumption is, you know what you were taking

808
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,480
on what would be referred to in another era as

809
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,239
a crack baby, because it is the right thing to do,

810
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,079
and as you mentioned, there are very real consequences to that.

811
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,239
I grew up with a lot of kids who were adopted,

812
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,960
and sure some of them turned out fine. But to

813
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,239
your point, many of those traits are hereditary, I mean

814
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,400
the returning.

815
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: Sorry sorry, well, I was just going to say that

816
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,639
the one of the things of courses that went the

817
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,280
Quake began, it was highly radical, highly highly radical and subversive,

818
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:06,760
and there were certain dangers involved, and so that attracts

819
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,800
a slightly different kind of person from what you'd get

820
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,880
more recently. It's not gonna be the same kind of

821
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,559
people when it was when it started. We're talking people

822
00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:17,039
that are probably very high naism and mixing this with

823
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:21,920
psychopathy as well. It's risk taking. It's probably watered down

824
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:24,800
quite a bit since, and it's stabilized, and it's created

825
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,880
its own community and it's cast out those that are

826
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,719
uncooperative and all this kind of thing in a way

827
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,719
that it wouldn't. But if you look in the early Quakers,

828
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,079
I mean they're openly espousing anti natalism in the form

829
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:37,960
of Mother Anne and the Shakers. Well this was a

830
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,400
breakaway Quaker group. She was a Quaker originally who then

831
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,760
made her own even more extreme group, the Shakers, where

832
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,000
you're not supposed to have you're not supposed to have children,

833
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,440
and you even had the use of nudity that you

834
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,039
get these Femen protests where these women go and take

835
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:55,079
off their tops and right left wing slogans on their breasts.

836
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:59,280
Well you even had that in the early Quakers. Cromwell

837
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,039
for seen fifty I forget exactly what it was. And

838
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:05,039
this woman goes into Westminster Hall where Cromwell is at prayer,

839
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,239
and just takes all the clothes off and starts screaming

840
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,320
at everybody about how blats from us and the religious

841
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,440
they are. You get, you get things like that. So

842
00:47:11,639 --> 00:47:13,760
the early stage is the really extreme stuff that you

843
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,000
get on the far left. Now you'd get among the Quakers.

844
00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:18,840
But this, of course lessons as we move on as

845
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:21,920
it as it as it buvocratizes, I suppose to put

846
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,480
it in Vapor's terms, and and becomes less radical, and

847
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:29,480
becomes because it's older, and and and so sort of stabilizes.

848
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: Anyway, you're going to say something brief aside, and then

849
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:33,440
I have a relevant point.

850
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: One.

851
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,199
Speaker 2: The Shakers are still around. There's one community left in Maine,

852
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,280
and there are three of them, which means if anyone

853
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,280
listening to this podcast wants to join, you only need

854
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,800
three guys to take it over, which I don't know

855
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,719
what you'd get, but it would at least be funny

856
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,079
to see that organization taken over by exactly four right

857
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,039
when guys off the internet. But on a more serious note,

858
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,880
I'm glad you brought that up, because the Quakers have

859
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,000
a tradition of martyrdom because obviously, early on they were

860
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:08,480
quite radical in an era where the way that you

861
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:11,880
dealt with radical, annoying people was generally killing them or

862
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,199
forcing them to leave, and so they have developed this

863
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,960
self conception as the ultimate martyrs of society. We were

864
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:24,840
too clean, too pure, too perfect for the outside world,

865
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,039
and so they persecuted us. And albeit as you've said

866
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:33,079
now it is a group of relatively normal, middle class

867
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:35,480
people who are in no way persecuted by the system,

868
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,920
they have kept that identity and kept that sort of

869
00:48:39,199 --> 00:48:43,519
self conception. And so when you look to modern protests

870
00:48:43,639 --> 00:48:47,039
when they are you know, getting beaten over the head

871
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:50,119
with the truncheon for gluing themselves to some expensive fighter

872
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,360
jet or poking holes in the road, it is connected

873
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,679
to that broader tradition of you know, the war didn't

874
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,000
really exist at the time, but of activism.

875
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: Yes, sort of a persecution complex that they have maintained, which, interestingly,

876
00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:07,719
I think you could argue you have among the Jews,

877
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,800
you could argue, well, you can see there's a good

878
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,719
reason why they'd have that, considering events over the last

879
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,440
eighty years. But but I think you do have that

880
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,800
among among the Jews. It's a notion of their identity.

881
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,320
They are persecuted people right from the beginning and enslaved people.

882
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:28,719
And the Quakers follow on in that, which is not

883
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:34,320
inconsistent with the philosemitism of a lot of extreme Protestant groups.

884
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,119
Whereas you know, the Catholics took the view that will

885
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:39,920
Catholicism is there and they've rejected it, and so they're bad,

886
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,840
whereas the problems that the view is utterly corrupt, so

887
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,639
they were they were quite right to reject it. So

888
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:48,079
so that they're they're they're they're they're not that bad.

889
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,320
But yeah, that that that persecution complex is there, That

890
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:56,119
that idea that we have had to struggle against a

891
00:49:56,199 --> 00:49:59,960
hostile world. The world used to ban us from various profession,

892
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:02,280
the world, the people used to do this, that and

893
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:07,039
the other. So that that sense of being the most persecuted,

894
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,079
it brings the most singled out for bad treatment, the most,

895
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:15,679
the most that I talked about narcissism earlier, and I

896
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,000
was speaking of it more in terms of grandiose narcissism,

897
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,000
but you could look at it in terms of vulnerable

898
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:23,000
narcissism with vulnerable nasism, which is a much more feminine thing.

899
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,840
It's notally I am they are narcists. They feel they

900
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,440
are superior to others, but they but they But the

901
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:31,599
part of this is a feeling that I am superior

902
00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:35,679
because I've coped in the face of being the most persecuted,

903
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,559
the most abused, the most beaten, the most messed around,

904
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,039
and I've done this and like a burning martyr, and

905
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:47,239
all the time I remained peaceful. And that tells you

906
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,840
how just how ironically, just how superior I am. And

907
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,239
so then you could argue going back to this idea

908
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,760
of having to live with these people, that you're dealing with,

909
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,280
this vulnerable narcissist who lives with you and behave like

910
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,360
that and conveys that idea they are the most persecuted,

911
00:51:04,159 --> 00:51:07,760
and then also does things to mess up your life

912
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,440
and mess up your society and make things difficult for

913
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,760
you to the extent I mean everything. If we say

914
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,119
I personally think this is true that the rise of

915
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,719
women and female influence has done very bad things in

916
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,119
terms of things like freedom of expression, things that you

917
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:27,480
and I would be in favor of freedom of expression,

918
00:51:27,639 --> 00:51:32,000
freedom of association, freedom of scientific inquiry, because on average,

919
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:34,679
again it's a bell curve, but on average, women will

920
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:40,840
tend to put safety above freedom, safety and equality and

921
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,639
everyone feeling looked after and validated above the pursuit of

922
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,159
truth and that sort of thing. So that's what you

923
00:51:49,159 --> 00:51:52,199
could argue, that's one negative thing, very negative thing that

924
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,840
Fairmnism has done. Who was a very feminist group right

925
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,639
from the very beginning, the Quakers, even in the seventeenth century.

926
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,239
The Quakers had very substantial numbers of female preachers, and

927
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,119
they were in favor of basically a kind of sexual

928
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,159
quality right from the very beginning.

929
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: So you're entirely correct about that. I mean, even to

930
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:19,880
this day, the vast majority of these communities, at least

931
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:25,039
in my direct experience, they are led by women, either

932
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:28,119
informally or formally. And you have this sort of you

933
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:30,800
know what the poster would call rate the longhouse phenomena,

934
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,320
where you have you know a number of these highly

935
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,000
socially aware, you know, older women basically running it like

936
00:52:38,039 --> 00:52:38,639
a henhouse.

937
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure that's the case. And in general, liberal

938
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,599
religiosity now is highly highly feminine. And we've just had

939
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:49,679
a female Archbishop of Canterbury appointed in the Church of England.

940
00:52:50,119 --> 00:52:52,360
And that's that as a whole is a lot left

941
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,679
wing than Quakerism. So I wouldn't be at all surprised

942
00:52:56,679 --> 00:53:01,920
by that. As I mentioned earlier, it uh mother Anne

943
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:07,400
Mary Dyer, the wife of George Fox, was highly, highly

944
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,039
influential as well. There's there's there's so many of them

945
00:53:11,519 --> 00:53:16,360
in its in the history of Quakerism of female influence,

946
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,760
which shouldn't be surprising because it is it's kind of

947
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,840
a feminizing religion that promotes kind of feminizing kind of

948
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:28,960
ideas and is just I mean, there was a there

949
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,559
was a particular instance. Was it sixteen sixteen, when was

950
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,960
it sixty? What year, sixteen fifties? This guy just marches

951
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:37,679
into Bristol and proclaims it's called James Naylor and proclaims

952
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,760
himself as Christ and this is this is the New

953
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,840
Palm Sunday, he says, and I'm Jesus. And then he

954
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,079
has these two women with him, Martha and Hannah, and

955
00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:49,159
they were interrogated and they refuse they when they asked,

956
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:51,400
what do you think he's Jesus, they refuse to say no.

957
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:54,519
So that that was the fervor of the time that

958
00:53:54,559 --> 00:53:58,079
they genuinely believed that James Naylor was Jesus and that

959
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:02,079
this was the Second Coming. There's this whole fascinating history

960
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:06,280
with these people that that of of just left wing subversion.

961
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:13,119
Every single level vegget first vegetarian society's Quaker anti slavery.

962
00:54:13,159 --> 00:54:15,559
I'm not saying slavery is a good thing, but for

963
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:19,960
the history of humanity, the dominant group enslaves the subaltern group,

964
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:24,039
and and and that's just how it is. And they

965
00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:26,559
put their own group above another group. That's what happens

966
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:31,719
in evolutionary terms, that's what's adaptive. Of course, Quaker sexual equality,

967
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:35,719
Quaker getting rid of corporal punishment as Quaker, just anything

968
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,320
that is not conservative, it's always has a huge Quaker influence.

969
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,400
And we have this online discourse on the right where

970
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,639
it's just that everybody goes on about the Jews, and

971
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:48,280
the Quakers kick above their weight to a huge extent.

972
00:54:49,639 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 2: Well, another historical example is John Brown, who is this

973
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,000
sort of hybrid of a preacher and a brigand he

974
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:02,599
got tired of murder his way across Kansas and decided

975
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:07,679
to lead a Haiti style slave revolt ironically enough, he

976
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,880
was captured and then later hung by Robert E. Lee.

977
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,719
But this was a sore subject at the time, obviously,

978
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,559
because they were building tensions between the North and the South.

979
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:21,320
And the radical abolitionists, those who believed that, you know,

980
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,400
the slavery and the society it built must be entirely destroyed,

981
00:55:26,159 --> 00:55:29,960
were not only radically Quaker, but John Brown who said, well,

982
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,559
I'm going to arm the slaves. I'm going to sort

983
00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:34,719
of salt the earth and kill every man, woman and

984
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,159
child in this area. He was funded and defended by Quakers.

985
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he wasn't a Quaker himself, but he he

986
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:49,079
used the I believe he used a farm in it

987
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:54,440
was owned by a Quakers in base in Iowa or

988
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,400
somewhere or Idaho, Iowa, say, let's say Iowa. Yeah, so

989
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,599
he had he had a great deal of support from Quakers. Yeah. So,

990
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,079
and this was not this was way more than just

991
00:56:05,079 --> 00:56:07,519
freeing the slaves, as you say. This was this was

992
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:11,719
just destroying what effectly the whole society and everything, and

993
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:15,800
using violence to do so. So this is this is

994
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,639
the kind of that's what they're prepared to do. That's

995
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:19,400
the kind of thing there and that's what they do now.

996
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,280
I mean, they're basically using their money and they have

997
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,920
a lot of money with these Quaker groups like Roundery

998
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:29,800
and Cabriy and whatever, to to to fund the far left,

999
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:34,880
the most anti freedom woke, suppressive far left, that is

1000
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,760
what they are funding, like the Center for Counting Digital

1001
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,599
Hate that I mentioned at the beginning, that that would

1002
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,239
that would that would censor us and bring us into

1003
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,679
even more into in the in the UK, into a

1004
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,119
kind of Soviet Union than we're already in, and we

1005
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:51,199
already are quite far into it. With people being prosecuted

1006
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:55,199
for things, they getting emotional on Twitter, on Facebook and

1007
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,159
all of this kind of stuff. That's that's that's that's

1008
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:00,199
going on in the UK. That is beyond what you know,

1009
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:02,440
you find It would be extraordinary for you in America

1010
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,079
to have to deal with this because fortunately, I mean,

1011
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:08,519
the way your sense of self as a nation used

1012
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:11,920
to be that you were the true Anglo Saxons. That

1013
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:15,920
you now they've got a melting pot. But the idea,

1014
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,360
even up until the sixties, particularly in the Southern States,

1015
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,480
was the idea that you were the true Anglo Saxons

1016
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:24,880
and that you maintained the Anglo saxon traditional freedoms and

1017
00:57:25,159 --> 00:57:28,039
in the face of tyranny, and and you know, a

1018
00:57:28,159 --> 00:57:31,119
German king and and all all of all of this

1019
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:34,679
kind of stuff. And you've maintained the free speech, which

1020
00:57:34,719 --> 00:57:38,920
we no longer have. You've maintained how it's called double jeopardy,

1021
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,599
which we no longer have. You've maintained jury trials, which

1022
00:57:41,599 --> 00:57:42,920
are they think of getting trying to get rid of

1023
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,239
in England. Uh, you know, for various reasons, the psychology

1024
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,119
of the kind of people that would go and would

1025
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:51,280
emigrate like that, which is probably a bit eurotic and

1026
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:56,639
a bit unstable, I don't know, a bit cynical, skeptical,

1027
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,360
and various other reasons. You've being up against it being

1028
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,480
frontier whatever, be being killed, suffering. You know, you've maintained it,

1029
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:09,199
and we haven't. And part of what is behind us

1030
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,119
not maintaining it is subversive groups within us that try

1031
00:58:13,159 --> 00:58:17,719
and bring about left wing tyranny essentially, and one of

1032
00:58:17,719 --> 00:58:21,480
those is the is the Quakers. And yeah, so.

1033
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:23,639
Speaker 2: Ed, I think it's a phenomenal note to wrap up on.

1034
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,800
What is the title of your book and where can

1035
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:26,480
people find it?

1036
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:31,079
Speaker 1: Here is the book. It's called The Quaker Question, exposing

1037
00:58:31,199 --> 00:58:34,760
the sect that really rules the world, and you can

1038
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,280
interpret that whichever where you wish to. But that's the book,

1039
00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:40,760
and you can get at the moment the hard copies

1040
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,840
from the publisher Wifling's for various reasons they they want

1041
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,480
to put about themselves for the moment, and you can

1042
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:49,639
get the e version on Amazon.

1043
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:54,039
Speaker 2: Well, that actually works out, because I was aware you

1044
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:56,199
had put out this book. I've not read it. I

1045
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,840
wasn't even aware of the title, but while I was

1046
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,119
thinking about it, I thought that Quaker Question would be

1047
00:59:01,199 --> 00:59:02,320
a clever thing to name it.

1048
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: So apparently the allusion to Quaker Oats, which I'm.

1049
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,199
Speaker 2: Just a brief aside, not actually connected. I believe the

1050
00:59:09,199 --> 00:59:11,159
founders were not Quakers.

1051
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: That isn't that interesting. The attitude of the company was

1052
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,360
that the Quakers are so wholesome, so wholesome and lovely,

1053
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:23,239
that will name our oats Quaker Oats. But the company

1054
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:24,719
is not connected to the Quakers at all.

1055
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,079
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, Ed, this is a fascinating discussion on politics.

1056
00:59:29,079 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: The influence on politics of big Oats is not to

1057
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:38,719
be underestimated. People.

1058
00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 2: We again, Ed, this was was fascinating. Obviously, I will

1059
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,000
link to your substack as well as your YouTube channel.

1060
00:59:47,079 --> 00:59:49,719
Highly recommend people check you out there. You've got a

1061
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,199
Twitter and then is there anywhere else People can find.

1062
00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: You on YouTube Jolly Heretic on YouTube and then Twitter

1063
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,360
ap Jolly Herosic and then substack Jolly Heretic.

1064
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: Great, all of those will be linked. As far as

1065
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,480
my stuff, you can find me the Jay Burton Show

1066
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,800
on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you listen to podcasts. This

1067
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:07,480
is what I do. If you want to support me

1068
01:00:07,519 --> 01:00:10,440
and get the episodes early with no ads, throw me

1069
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,239
a few bucks. I think I have it sent to

1070
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,320
the lowest requirement. It's not a lot of money on Patreon,

1071
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,400
substack or comb road again, ed, it's been great. Never

1072
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,079
won at home. Keep your head up. Good night,