Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: It beats listening to nothing, my goodness, it's being Frank.
Speaker 2: Fright were the only way to be is Frank.
Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank, where the only
Speaker 3: way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebuono,
Speaker 3: and i'd like to thank you for joining us on
Speaker 3: what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where
Speaker 3: no conversations out of bounds and all points of view
Speaker 3: are welcome. Regular listeners know that we go live to
Speaker 3: tape record, but we try to go straight through from
Speaker 3: beginning to end, and I give you the dates, context
Speaker 3: and relevance.
Speaker 2: It is the fourteenth of January, our second show of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. In our continuing efforts towards complete transparency,
Speaker 2: I must make an admission. I'm not a big fan
Speaker 2: of the Grateful Dead. I hope that doesn't make me
Speaker 2: a bad person. I did actually manage to see them
Speaker 2: at least once live that I can remember anyway. I
Speaker 2: think it was maybe nineteen seventy two or seventy three,
Speaker 2: and I guess it was about I don't know, seventeen
Speaker 2: or eighteen years old, and my older sister took me
Speaker 2: to see them at the Old Nassau Coliseum on Long Island.
Speaker 2: My recollection of the concert was this, the pervasive smell
Speaker 2: of marijuana, people dancing in the aisles like zombies, and
Speaker 2: the band played something like five songs over a four
Speaker 2: hour period. Be that as it may, I can still
Speaker 2: acknowledge their greatness and the huge impact they've had on
Speaker 2: millions of people around the world. And perhaps no one
Speaker 2: has had more influence on the Grateful Dead than the
Speaker 2: band's co founder, lyricist, guitarist, and many sayed along with
Speaker 2: the late Jerry Garcia, soul of the band, Bob Weir.
Speaker 2: In addition to the death of Garcia, Weir's recent passing
Speaker 2: at the age of seventy eight has left a huge
Speaker 2: hole in the hearts of not only his fans, but
Speaker 2: music lovers everywhere. Few people can say they lived legendary lives.
Speaker 2: Bob Weir is one who can certainly claim that distinction.
Speaker 2: So I brought in an expert to sort out Weir's
Speaker 2: real impact in legacy. He's a man who was proud
Speaker 2: to proclaim himself a deadhead. He is also an addiction counselor,
Speaker 2: the author of two best selling books on addiction and recovery.
Speaker 2: As well as being a regular contributor to psychology today,
Speaker 2: he has also attended nearly two hundred performances of the
Speaker 2: Dead and their various incarnations. So who better to share
Speaker 2: some intelligent conversation on the life and legacy of Bobby
Speaker 2: Weir than my friend Danny Major. Danny, welcome back. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Frank. It's always a pleasure to be with
Speaker 1: you on this venue and to have another opportunity to
Speaker 1: truly be Frank.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that, and I know you're seeing clients today,
Speaker 2: so I really do appreciate it your alter go as
Speaker 2: an addiction counselor. We'll talk a little bit about that
Speaker 2: after the break, So I really do appreciate you taking
Speaker 2: the time. So let's get right into it first, kind
Speaker 2: of in a broad sense, and then will narrow down
Speaker 2: a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your
Speaker 2: first experience with the band The Grateful Dead.
Speaker 1: So you know, I first became engaged with the with
Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead's music as a mid teenager fourteen fifteen thereabouts,
Speaker 1: And in fact, that happened during the year hiatus that
Speaker 1: The Grateful Dead took from touring. It was during their
Speaker 1: thirty years from when they first started in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: five to Jerry Garcia's unfortunate early passing in nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: they toured virtually continuously, you know, taking a few months
Speaker 1: off here and there, but over the course of those
Speaker 1: thirty years they played aid over twenty three hundred concerts,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, in the neighborhood of an average
Speaker 1: of eighty a year, which is unheard of for any
Speaker 1: band remotely near their stature and their level of success
Speaker 1: even at that time. So they because after about ten
Speaker 1: years together, nine years or so, they decided to take
Speaker 1: a year off, and that was in part were due
Speaker 1: to burnout. There was a tremendous amount of drug use
Speaker 1: and involvement at the time, and there was a generally
Speaker 1: consensus that they needed to take some time off. But
Speaker 1: you know, and so The Grateful Dead didn't play for
Speaker 1: about nine months during nineteen seventy five, but the band
Speaker 1: members were involved in respective side projects during the time.
Speaker 1: So actually the first time I saw Bob Weir live
Speaker 1: was during that hiatus, prior to my seeing The Grateful
Speaker 1: Dead for the first time, which took place in June
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy six at the Boston Music Hall when
Speaker 1: they're touring fully resumed. But I saw Bob we Air
Speaker 1: a couple of times on Long Island and in the city.
Speaker 1: He was playing with a band called Kingfish at that time,
Speaker 1: and they were a wonderful ensemble cast and it wasn't
Speaker 1: called Bob we Are in Kingfish, it was just Kingfish,
Speaker 1: and he was a member of the band, obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: renown and prominent. But another member of that band was
Speaker 1: Dave Torbert, who had been the bassist in the New
Speaker 1: Writers of the Purple Sage for a number of years also,
Speaker 1: and they were wonderful of one or two of their
Speaker 1: songs made it into the ongoing Grateful Dead repertoire. But
Speaker 1: so I saw both Bob we Are and Jerry Garcia
Speaker 1: in the Jerry Garcia band prior to first seeing The
Speaker 1: Grateful Dead again June of nineteen seventy six, and between
Speaker 1: then and when Jerry Garcia passed, I saw them approximately
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty times, so you know, and that's
Speaker 1: over the course of nineteen years. The last time I
Speaker 1: saw them play two dates at Giant Stadium the summer
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety five, within a couple of months of
Speaker 1: when Jerry Garcia passed, and the vast majority of shows
Speaker 1: were wonderful. Many of them were absolutely ecstatic, partly partly
Speaker 1: contributed to by a wide range of psychoactive substances that
Speaker 1: I might have been in conscious contact with at the time.
Speaker 2: Time. It's what we did.
Speaker 1: And you know, very very few of those shows, in
Speaker 1: my experience, were anything but excellent, at least in terms
Speaker 1: of my level of enjoyment. But but importantly and for
Speaker 1: our purposes, every show was different. There were runs when
Speaker 1: in ninety the New Year's Eve run at the Oakland
Speaker 1: Auditorium Arena. They were still able to play smaller venues
Speaker 1: at that time, six thousand general admission, and they played
Speaker 1: five shows at six nights. I was living in Santa
Speaker 1: Cruz in northern California, seventy five miles south of the
Speaker 1: Bay Area at that time, and I was able to
Speaker 1: go to all five of those shows, and each show
Speaker 1: was different. They never played the same show twice, and
Speaker 1: they very rarely played the same song the same way twice.
Speaker 1: There were always different individual stylistic improvisational differences. They were
Speaker 1: really quite remarkable and thoroughly unique in that way.
Speaker 2: So much to unpack there too. And since it's about
Speaker 2: Bob Weir, let's go back to what was it about
Speaker 2: Weir that made him exceptional? What did you see when
Speaker 2: again you mentioned seeing him live before you actually saw
Speaker 2: the entire band. Was there something that sticks out in
Speaker 2: your mind about him about his performances, style, musical style,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 1: Well, he was Bob Weir's role in The Grateful Dead
Speaker 1: was that was rhythm guitarist and he although he wrote,
Speaker 1: he wrote a couple of lyrics here and there, he
Speaker 1: really wasn't a lyricist. There were two main songwriting partnerships
Speaker 1: within the Grateful Dead. There was Jerry Garcia and Robert Hunter,
Speaker 1: and then Bob Weir's primary he wrote the music for
Speaker 1: the songs that he that he wrote. Generally speaking, his
Speaker 1: lyricist was John Barlow, who was who was a poet
Speaker 1: and writer who he met in reform school in Wyoming
Speaker 1: when they were when they were both teenagers. So they
Speaker 1: had this this lifelong relationship and then they they they
Speaker 1: re established contact when Bob Weir was in The Grateful
Speaker 1: Dead and basically looking for someone to write his own
Speaker 1: songs with because he and Hunter had had a falling out,
Speaker 1: but the way in which he played guitar was played
Speaker 1: rhythm guitar was really was really singular. I was blessed
Speaker 1: to see many Grateful Dead concerts where where I was
Speaker 1: up close in proximity to the stage and could see
Speaker 1: what the musicians were doing in greater detail. And his
Speaker 1: approach to playing was one of often listening very actively
Speaker 1: and intently and adjusting how he played based on the
Speaker 1: interplay between Jerry Garcia's lead guitar and Phil Lesh's bass
Speaker 1: guitar playing. And so he was he was in the
Speaker 1: process of constantly making adjustments to fit with and enhance
Speaker 1: the flow of particular improvisational jams in the moment. And
Speaker 1: I mean he really played rhythm guitar in a way
Speaker 1: it was different from everyone else. And you know, it's
Speaker 1: in terms of influences, you know, the Grateful Dead crust
Speaker 1: all all sorts of different genres from bluegrass to rock
Speaker 1: to jazz.
Speaker 2: Jazz comes to mind with me with their improvisations, which
Speaker 2: each as you mentioned, each one being different, and like jazz,
Speaker 2: sometimes either you get it or you don't, but it's
Speaker 2: certainly the brilliance of it is within that so I
Speaker 2: didn't mean to cut you off, but I just wanted
Speaker 2: to that came immediately to my mind. It's more jazz
Speaker 2: like that, you know, I think people think of it
Speaker 2: almost in terms of folky if you will, I guess
Speaker 2: to a certain degree, and yet there are certain really
Speaker 2: strong elements of jazz within that. I just want to
Speaker 2: throw that in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Frank, I mean, they really justified categorization in
Speaker 1: terms of genre. But you know, to your point, you know,
Speaker 1: world class jazz saxophonists such as Branford, Marsalis and even
Speaker 1: or Nick Coleman sat in with them several times and
Speaker 1: there was this remarkable synchronicity between those musicians and the band,
Speaker 1: and they all got off playing playing together. But you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of influences, Garcia occasionally talked about about some
Speaker 1: of his models, including John Coltrane and Miles Davis, and
Speaker 1: learning how that the space has been between the notes
Speaker 1: were often just as important as the notes that were
Speaker 1: played themselves. And consistent with that, Bob Weir has often
Speaker 1: described his approach to playing wasn't modeled on other guitarists
Speaker 1: or rhythm guitarists, but much more like how McCoy Tyner's
Speaker 1: piano playing supported John Coltrane's brilliant, brilliant, free flowing sacks
Speaker 1: leads in the John Coltrane Quartet, and he used that
Speaker 1: as a model to support an underlie Garcia's lead playing
Speaker 1: in a way that was again just thoroughly unique in
Speaker 1: terms of understanding, approach, and execution. The other thing that was,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Bob Weir was notable for a
Speaker 1: number of reasons, not the least of which that he
Speaker 1: was easily the most handsome member of the Grateful Dead,
Speaker 1: who though renowned for many reasons, not for their looks,
Speaker 1: not for not for personal esthetics, but Bob Weir had
Speaker 1: very much the rock star vibe and he played to
Speaker 1: that frequently. You know, By the late seventies early eighties,
Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia had stopped interacting verbally with the with the
Speaker 1: audience with rare exception, not wanting the responsibility that he
Speaker 1: figured people might attribute, the influence that people might attribute
Speaker 1: to anything he would say, and he didn't want to
Speaker 1: take the chance of influencing someone in an unintended way.
Speaker 1: So Weir was really the band spokesperson with the audience
Speaker 1: for the last for the last number of years, of
Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead, and he would go on Mike, you know,
Speaker 1: acknowledge technical problems. If in a general admission concert, the
Speaker 1: front became too crowded, he would lead the crowd in
Speaker 1: and exercise of taking a step back and another step
Speaker 1: back and so forth. Every once in a while he
Speaker 1: would tell an actual joke, typically very corny, but he
Speaker 1: would engage with the crowd. He often he dressed differently too.
Speaker 1: I'm for a lot of the eighties and nineties polo
Speaker 1: shirts and very short, impressively short cut off jeans that
Speaker 1: became known as Bobby shorts because they were they were
Speaker 1: identifiable with him in that particular way. And what was
Speaker 1: what was really interesting also is that post Grateful Dead,
Speaker 1: you know, Jerry Garcia died and and you know, the
Speaker 1: world mourned, much of the world, i should say, mourned,
Speaker 1: and dead heads mourned very deeply. You know, you thought
Speaker 1: you had mentioned that, you know in your introduction that
Speaker 1: you know you weren't you weren't a grateful dead head.
Speaker 1: But you know, as Garcia described it, great dead fans
Speaker 1: are like people who like licorice. Now not everyone likes licorice,
Speaker 1: but the people who like licorice really really you know.
Speaker 1: And and uh so the way the way the surviving
Speaker 1: band members, you know, it took them, It took them
Speaker 1: a couple of years, but they began to put together projects,
Speaker 1: sometimes together, sometimes separately, to continue the legacy of Grateful Dead.
Speaker 1: Not just Grateful Dead music, the songs which are which
Speaker 1: are powerful and will last, will last generations because the
Speaker 1: combination of the of the virtuoso playing with the brilliance,
Speaker 1: the poetic and timeless qualities of so many of the
Speaker 1: lyrics are you know, that's what made what made the
Speaker 1: music so powerful, This this incredible synchronicity between the words
Speaker 1: and and music. But but Bob we Are thirty years
Speaker 1: thirty years on, was playing probably more frequently in other
Speaker 1: projects than he had with the Grateful Dead. It was
Speaker 1: as if his mission was to keep the music alive
Speaker 1: and to share it with as many people as absolutely possible.
Speaker 1: And you know, I recall his his initial solo projects,
Speaker 1: so to say, is his his solo band post Grateful
Speaker 1: Dead was called rat Dog, and initially rat Dog, the
Speaker 1: the repertoire song wise consisted much more of Bob Weir songs,
Speaker 1: so to say, We're Barlow songs than Hunter Garcia songs.
Speaker 1: And at a certain point, like the early two thousands
Speaker 1: to the mid watts or so, when when he played
Speaker 1: he started playing more and more Hunter Garcia songs. And
Speaker 1: I saw several shows where he played more Hunter Garcia
Speaker 1: songs than songs that he had been directly involved in writing.
Speaker 1: And about the same time, you know, during during The
Speaker 1: Grateful Dead, Bob We're occasionally had a beard, relatively a short,
Speaker 1: well trimmed beard for periods of time. But you know,
Speaker 1: somewhere around the mid waughts, he started to grow his beard.
Speaker 1: His hair started to turn a little gray, a touch
Speaker 1: of great gray right there, but he started to grow
Speaker 1: his beard quite a bit longer, you know. And Jerry Garcia,
Speaker 1: for most of The Grateful Dead's history, had a long,
Speaker 1: very bushy beard. And so it was as if and
Speaker 1: and We're talked talked frequently and and and fervently about
Speaker 1: his continuing connection with Jerry Garcia even subsequent to his passing.
Speaker 1: And my sense from a psychological perspective is that, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that that Bob Weird did to
Speaker 1: keep in conscious contact with Jerry Garcia, to keep that
Speaker 1: relationship very much alive, was to play more of his
Speaker 1: music and to take on more of his characteristics, so
Speaker 1: to say. Now, that's not necessarily a conscious process, and
Speaker 1: it's a psychological phenomenon known as identification. Where we lose,
Speaker 1: we lose people that are important to us, and and
Speaker 1: the surviving individuals often begin to take on more of
Speaker 1: the qualities or the characteristics of the person who has
Speaker 1: passed or transitioned, and it helps to maintain a a
Speaker 1: under the surface of conscious awareness connection with them. And
Speaker 1: that included so in in later years, you know, after
Speaker 1: after they they celebrated fifty years of since the Grateful
Speaker 1: Deads first started playing together with the Fairly Well concerts
Speaker 1: two at Santa Clara Stadium where the forty nine ers play,
Speaker 1: and three at Soldier Soldier Field in Chicago, and that
Speaker 1: and that included the the four main surviving members of
Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead Uh, Bob, We're Phil Lesh and the
Speaker 1: two drummers, Bill Kreutzman and Mickey Hart, with supporting players
Speaker 1: Trey Anastasio of Fish one lead guitar, Bruce Hornsby on piano, UH,
Speaker 1: Jeff Chamente who played with with Bob were and Ratdog
Speaker 1: on one organ and UH and you know, and that
Speaker 1: was that was really wonderful. And then after that, you know,
Speaker 1: Phil phil Lesh had his own thing, fill in Friends,
Speaker 1: played with this incredible, ever expanding rotating cast, alternating casts
Speaker 1: of world class musicians playing primarily, but not exclusively, grateful
Speaker 1: dead songs. And then then the question was, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what happens after the fair the Well Shows? And you know,
Speaker 1: it just turns out that that John Mayer happened to
Speaker 1: be guest hosting some relatively esoteric late, late, late night show,
Speaker 1: and Bob Weir was a guest of his, and and
Speaker 1: you know, not that many people knew it, but John
Speaker 1: Mayer had been a deadhead from the time that he
Speaker 1: was a teenager growing up in Connecticut, and and they
Speaker 1: had to set up there. Perhaps it was pre planned,
Speaker 1: but they played a song or two together on on
Speaker 1: that show, and they clicked. There was a musical simpotico
Speaker 1: that you know, musician. I'm not a musician, but musicians
Speaker 1: easily recognized in one another. And through that initial initial contact,
Speaker 1: the genesis of Debt and Company was born. And so
Speaker 1: so later later that year, the Fairly Well Shows, I
Speaker 1: think the last one was was the day after fourth
Speaker 1: of July July fifth, twenty fifteen. Dead and Company debuted
Speaker 1: in the fall of twenty twenty five with but with
Speaker 1: Bob Weir, the two drummers Bill Kreutzman and Mickey Hart,
Speaker 1: John Mayer on lead one lead guitar, you know, a
Speaker 1: role of tremendous responsibility and pressure. Jeff Tamenti playing both
Speaker 1: keyboard and piano, and the bass players Otel Burbridge, who
Speaker 1: played bass for the Almond Brothers for the last eighteen
Speaker 1: years of their existence. At that time, Phil Lesh wasn't
Speaker 1: interested in doing any sort of really significan and touring.
Speaker 1: Played many shows, but basically had to select few home
Speaker 1: bases where he set up shop and would stay. But
Speaker 1: Dead and Company before before Bob Weir's passing, played for
Speaker 1: ten years, and they played, you know, they didn't play
Speaker 1: as many shows as The Great, as the Grateful Dead.
Speaker 1: All of the surviving members you know they were they
Speaker 1: were in there in their late sixties even early seventies
Speaker 1: when it when they first started, but played played anywhere
Speaker 1: from from twenty to forty or forty five shows over
Speaker 1: those over those ten years, and in my experience seeing
Speaker 1: Dead in Company quite a few times from New York
Speaker 1: to California and in Las Vegas, where I've been living
Speaker 1: for the last sixteen years, including including quite a few
Speaker 1: shows at the Spear during Dead and Company's runs there.
Speaker 1: Bob We're in interestingly took on more and more of
Speaker 1: the of the distance that Jerry Garcia had maintained verbally
Speaker 1: with the audience during the last number of years that
Speaker 1: he was alive, where he very very rarely interacted with
Speaker 1: the audience, in contrast to the interplay between him and
Speaker 1: the audience that he often initiated with the Grateful Dead.
Speaker 1: But Dead in Company, although it was different, it could
Speaker 1: never be the same. And many people, you know, rendered
Speaker 1: their garments and gnashed their teeth because well, it wasn't
Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia, and it wasn't the Grateful Dead. But from
Speaker 1: the standpoint of someone who who for whom the music
Speaker 1: and the passion with which and the skill with which
Speaker 1: the music is played and the words are sung evoke
Speaker 1: tremendous joy and sense of community and continuity. Debt and
Speaker 1: Company have been a wonderful extension of the Grateful Dead legacy.
Speaker 1: And they played, they played there as is off, and
Speaker 1: they played brilliantly, and too many people's surprise John Mayer
Speaker 1: proved to be a brilliant fit with them really really
Speaker 1: appreciating with gratitude and reverence the role that he was
Speaker 1: that he had taken on, and the appreciation with which
Speaker 1: the fans the fans acknowledged his participation. It's really really
Speaker 1: quite wonderful.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about that very special community because
Speaker 2: you can't mention the grateful dead without that sense. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to it a second in a second.
Speaker 2: But you also said something about Where's appearance, and it's
Speaker 2: interesting that I found it interesting too, because my partner
Speaker 2: Amanda and I was speaking of it just yesterday. If
Speaker 2: you look at him through the course of time, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a time capsule of the band itself.
Speaker 2: He had this kind of almost cherubic face, little boy's face,
Speaker 2: and at the end it's grizzled, you know, with the
Speaker 2: waving wild hair and the big handlebar mustache and bushy beard.
Speaker 2: And it just as it seemed, he seemed to evolve
Speaker 2: and and continue an age in a sense, as the
Speaker 2: band itself did, and through many incarnations and to to
Speaker 2: a final one of where he was when he died.
Speaker 1: And uh and and he very much believed in reincarnation
Speaker 1: as as he as he put it, uh he saw
Speaker 1: depth as as the uh well earned reward of a
Speaker 1: life well lived. And it's certainly and it's certainly not
Speaker 1: not the not the end. And he, you know, he
Speaker 1: talked in terms of as as did Jerry Garcia of
Speaker 1: you know, and and Phil Lesh to a great extent too.
Speaker 1: They all they all talked in terms of having built,
Speaker 1: having created this, this family, this culture of sorts that.
Speaker 2: Don't want to talk about that, please expand on that, please.
Speaker 1: So so I mean basically the grateful dead. They didn't
Speaker 1: have any particular political leanings, and they very much wanted
Speaker 1: to stay away from that, even though they would do
Speaker 1: political benefits uh from from or benefits that served some
Speaker 1: political as well as environmental and social causes from from
Speaker 1: from time to time. But their their interest was in
Speaker 1: in contributing to quality of life, both both not just
Speaker 1: for themselves and for their audiences, but community writ small
Speaker 1: as well as as large, with the with the seeming
Speaker 1: underlying principle that contributing to people's experiences in a fundamentally positive,
Speaker 1: peace or oriented way would expand outwards, small pebbles making
Speaker 1: large ripples. You know, the same way that when you
Speaker 1: toss a stone into a pond or or a lake,
Speaker 1: the ripples from the impact expand outward and they start
Speaker 1: very small, but at a certain point they may encompass
Speaker 1: the entire surface of the of the of the water.
Speaker 1: And UH. And they really, they really emphasized that this
Speaker 1: was this was an important part of their their ethos, uh,
Speaker 1: living holistically and being socially responsible. UH. And in connection
Speaker 1: with that, so, for instance, Bob We're worked as a
Speaker 1: United Nations Development Program Goodwill ambassador. They supported voter registration
Speaker 1: through a nonprofit organization called Headcount, and in fact, at
Speaker 1: a number of Dead End Company shows in recent years,
Speaker 1: Bob We're's wife Natasha would stand on the side of
Speaker 1: the stage holding you know, and this was around a
Speaker 1: various election cycles, and above her head she would hold
Speaker 1: the sign that simply said vote, and she would hold
Speaker 1: it up above her head for ten, fifteen, twenty minutes
Speaker 1: at a time, you know, stoically, firmly, you know, in
Speaker 1: a way that was absolutely just committed. And although it
Speaker 1: was just a sign, anyone who's ever held something above
Speaker 1: their head for five minutes that that takes some serious energy.
Speaker 1: That is that is hard work, and so to see that,
Speaker 1: you know, as a as an extension of this commitment
Speaker 1: to social causes that they believed in, was really phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Ye he was a co founding member of the Further Foundation,
Speaker 1: which funds environmental, social and cultural causes. And part of
Speaker 1: how the Deadhead community evolved was that, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: they played with tremendous passion and they played Their concerts
Speaker 1: are really long compared to usual concerts like the Grateful Dead,
Speaker 1: especially early on when they were you know, doing lots
Speaker 1: of drugs and it was a lot of LSD in particular,
Speaker 1: but they their concerts would last four or five hours
Speaker 1: and longer like consistently. By the time I began to
Speaker 1: see them in nineteen seventy six, they were a little
Speaker 1: they were a little shorter. They were typically three a
Speaker 1: three and a half hours, but you know, dead in
Speaker 1: company for the entire length of their ten year history.
Speaker 1: As you know, Bil Kreutzman left the band in early
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three and was replaced by another drummer, but
Speaker 1: Mickey Hart, who is in his late seventies and and
Speaker 1: Bob Weir who passed away just recently as we know,
Speaker 1: at seventy eight, they were still playing three hour plus concerts.
Speaker 1: Now that's three hours of music. They would play two
Speaker 1: sets with about thirty to forty minute intermission in between them,
Speaker 1: but the music itself would encompass three hours consistently, you know,
Speaker 1: and played with you know, just played with incredible intensity
Speaker 1: and passion, and people gravitate towards that. That is, that
Speaker 1: is infectious. And and you know, the way they their
Speaker 1: their philosophy about about people attending their concerts and allowing
Speaker 1: them to freely audio tape their their concerts, and so
Speaker 1: so any at any given concert, there'd be dozens to
Speaker 1: several hundred people recording those concerts, and then they distributed
Speaker 1: them generally for free. There was this huge tape exchange
Speaker 1: community related to Live Grateful Dead concerts for you know,
Speaker 1: throughout the nineteen seventies, the nineteen eighties, and you know
Speaker 1: it perhaps into the into the nineteen nineties even And
Speaker 1: so that helped to spread to spread the music and
Speaker 1: the and the influence. And as the band themselves said,
Speaker 1: you know, as they can they can tape it. As
Speaker 1: far as we're concerned, once we're finished playing, you know,
Speaker 1: we're done with it, they can they can do with
Speaker 1: it whatever they wanted, and it turned out to be
Speaker 1: this unintentionally brilliant a business model in terms of exposing
Speaker 1: more different people to the music, which now you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it is multi generational. I know, I know
Speaker 1: adult now adult kids of friends of mine who I
Speaker 1: went to Grateful Dead concerts with, who are just as
Speaker 1: enthusiastic in terms of their interest in fandom as any
Speaker 1: as any deadhead.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: Yeh, I'm gonna take a break, but I want one
Speaker 2: more question if I get in, and one more point,
Speaker 2: and then I've got to get you back to your
Speaker 2: real life as a therapist in a few minutes. I'm
Speaker 2: aware of the time. There's I don't know if it's verified,
Speaker 2: but apparently is true that Jerry sung a Bob Weir's
Speaker 2: song as his final song, and vice versa, that we
Speaker 2: are sung a Garcia song. I don't know if that's true,
Speaker 2: but it's been said on social media. If so, if
Speaker 2: you see something behind that in terms of their you
Speaker 2: mentioned their ethols Zeitgeist.
Speaker 1: If you will, you know it's You're You're close to
Speaker 1: accurate there, Frank.
Speaker 2: Please please correctly you're the man.
Speaker 1: The last song Jerry Garcia sang live was actually a
Speaker 1: Phil Lesh song Box of Rain, Box of Ring Yes.
Speaker 1: The last song that Phil Lesh sang live before his
Speaker 1: passing in the fall of twenty twenty twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: was was Bob Weir song Sugar Magnolia. And the very
Speaker 1: last song that that Bob Weir sang was a Jerry
Speaker 1: Garcia song Touch of Gray. And I think that is
Speaker 1: that is emblematic of and a metaphor for the incredibly
Speaker 1: deep intuitive connection that they that they shared, that that
Speaker 1: began based on you know, their their their approach to playing,
Speaker 1: their philosophy towards the music, and the way they learned
Speaker 1: how to tell how to communicate nonverbally and almost telepathically
Speaker 1: in the mid and late sixties when they were, you know,
Speaker 1: doing so much LSD that you know, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it is a different experience of the world such that
Speaker 1: you know, neuronal connections were made and wired in ways
Speaker 1: where where it really seems like there was something to
Speaker 1: the way in which they communicated nonverbally with one another
Speaker 1: and just knew where they were going and what they
Speaker 1: were going to do and be able to be on
Speaker 1: the same page in an incredibly sophisticated way, no matter
Speaker 1: the velocity of the improvisation.
Speaker 2: Well, that's real awesome, Tim. I'm gonna take a quick
Speaker 2: break and we come back, you know, and want you
Speaker 2: to switch caps and talk to us a little about
Speaker 2: you know, these are hard times. There's no other there's
Speaker 2: no other way to describe it. On people who struggling
Speaker 2: in terms of their mental health, and that often leads
Speaker 2: to addiction and other issues. And I want to get
Speaker 2: your feeling on how we got there and what we
Speaker 2: could possibly do about it. But this has been great.
Speaker 2: You've got to be as close to a dead historian
Speaker 2: should say grateful dead, because they could confuse peop bullet.
Speaker 2: Let's meet a grateful debt history and as there can be.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Folks, don't go anywhere. This is
Speaker 2: Being Frank. We're having a great time. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Frank Lebono back with so much more right after these
Speaker 2: brief commercial messages. This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 1: Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2: Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 1: This is Hudsonriverradio dot com.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Being Frank the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. Thanks
Speaker 2: for sticking with us. I'm your hosts Frank Ubono, and
Speaker 2: as always our engineer as the mailman, mister Neil Richter.
Speaker 2: We bring our audience a fresh topic every week and
Speaker 2: we stream from Hudson River Radio, located and beautiful and
Speaker 2: historic Stony Point, New York. But remember, you can catch
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Speaker 2: anytime you like.
Speaker 3: You can find a link to Being Frank on the
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Speaker 3: dot com.
Speaker 2: Just click and you're there. Welcome back, thanks for sticking
Speaker 2: with us. My very special guest is Danny Major, self
Speaker 2: proclaimed deadhead as well as author and therapist. I'm going
Speaker 2: to kind of connect those things right now, and Dan,
Speaker 2: you felt it was kind of a natural segue. We
Speaker 2: left off talking about the community that is, the grateful
Speaker 2: dead scene, and then I tea is that you know,
Speaker 2: people right now are struggling a difficult administration. I'm putting
Speaker 2: that kindly. If people read my stuff, they know exactly
Speaker 2: how I feel, et cetera. But you seem to feel
Speaker 2: there is a connection that you want to make between
Speaker 2: the two things. Please do that now.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's fascinating, Frank. There's more and more
Speaker 1: research in recent years, like serious, rigorous scientific research that
Speaker 1: debt demonstrates among the most important fact related to mental
Speaker 1: and emotional as well as spiritual well being. And because
Speaker 1: of the immediacy and directness of the connection between the
Speaker 1: mind and the body, anything that affects us mentally, emotionally
Speaker 1: and spiritually ultimately affects us physically and vice versa. But
Speaker 1: more and more research is finding that one of the
Speaker 1: most important factors to ongoing health and well being is
Speaker 1: connection with others. Connection and that being being part of
Speaker 1: a community of people, whether that community is smaller or larger,
Speaker 1: has has research based significant, meaningful, positive benefits to mental,
Speaker 1: emo emotional, spiritual, and in turn physical health and well
Speaker 1: and well being. And so, you know, part of part
Speaker 1: of the way in which you know the current uh
Speaker 1: socio political events are so overwhelming and so so disheartening
Speaker 1: as well as rage inducing in you know in some cases,
Speaker 1: is that you know, it gets worse when we feel
Speaker 1: like we're alone and that there's relatively little we can do.
Speaker 1: But there is you know, the the idea of strength
Speaker 1: and numbers is not just a practical, instrumental principle, it
Speaker 1: is a mental, emotional, and spiritual principle as well. And
Speaker 1: the experience of knowing that we are not alone, that
Speaker 1: there are other people going through the same experience, shared
Speaker 1: lived experience, is this incredible ly powerful therapeutic resource that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with therapy per se, just in
Speaker 1: terms of what's helpful and healthy to to human beings.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm I'm, I'm really blessed in for
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, but in particular I'm thinking of,
Speaker 1: you know, being blessed to be a member of two
Speaker 1: literally global communities at this point. It's the you know,
Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead community. And you know, one of the
Speaker 1: one of the positive things about social media, juxtaposed with
Speaker 1: all of the crap and and uh and and uh
Speaker 1: intentionally engineered manipulations and efforts to monetize our attention. But
Speaker 1: the positive aspect of social media to me is the
Speaker 1: way in which it enables people to connect with with
Speaker 1: other people throughout all parts of their fives. Like you.
Speaker 1: You know, you and I have known each other since
Speaker 1: since the early eighties. And and we reconnected through Facebook.
Speaker 2: Initially, yes, the upside absolutely and.
Speaker 1: And people all all over the world. So, you know,
Speaker 1: the the outpouring of both grief and gratitude related to
Speaker 1: Bob Weir's passing from the Grateful Dead community. Many online communities,
Speaker 1: you know, a number of which are connected to social media,
Speaker 1: very powerful, cathartic and and and and therapeutic and and
Speaker 1: you know, consistent with what I described before about about
Speaker 1: their their sense of social responsibility and their social interests
Speaker 1: in advancing society forward in healthy, positive ways. And and
Speaker 1: you know, Bob Weir was a big part of that,
Speaker 1: and he continued that work right up until his his passing.
Speaker 1: You know, he he co authored to books with his
Speaker 1: sister Wendy, Wendy wear Uh Panther Dreams and and and
Speaker 1: Baru Bay which they were basically fund their kids books
Speaker 1: and their fundraising efforts for environmental causes, rainforest causes, and
Speaker 1: and and and and so forth. So so when we
Speaker 1: engage together, we are doing in in in those ways,
Speaker 1: we're doing something meaningful, We're doing something powerful. So even
Speaker 1: if it doesn't feel like much, every little bit counts,
Speaker 1: every little bit has meaning. It has value if it
Speaker 1: moves things in a healthy and positive direction. And the
Speaker 1: you know, the other global community that I'm part of
Speaker 1: is is a twelve step recovery community where I know
Speaker 1: people all over the country and literally all over the world.
Speaker 1: And and also there's a there, there's a you know,
Speaker 1: the Venn diagram has an intersection between the Grateful Dead
Speaker 1: community and the recovery community, and that takes the form
Speaker 1: of the Warfrats, named after a Hunter Garcia song about
Speaker 1: an alcoholic down on his luck around the San Francisco
Speaker 1: Docs and the wish to get his life together and
Speaker 1: to change its trajectory, to transform it. And so there's
Speaker 1: this grateful deadheads in recovery community also. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately it's a function of balance. I think
Speaker 1: being being sad, being dishearted, heartened, being overwhelmed, being depressed,
Speaker 1: being frustrated, being angry, experiencing rage. These are all perfectly okay,
Speaker 1: normal and natural to the circumstance. The question is what
Speaker 1: we do with them. And I would certainly just encourage
Speaker 1: and invite everyone to connect with the communities that fit
Speaker 1: for you, that align with your values, your principles, your interests,
Speaker 1: including socio politically and engage in even small forms of
Speaker 1: action because no matter how small, they still have meaning
Speaker 1: and value.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we only have a few minutes left, as I know,
Speaker 2: you have to get back to clients. So but you
Speaker 2: mentioned your books. We certainly did, and I think they're important.
Speaker 2: You quote from them. I share your quotes all the time.
Speaker 2: I think they're brilliant, and i'd like you to share
Speaker 2: your two books, tell people a little bit about them.
Speaker 2: You got about a minute or two before you have
Speaker 2: to go, Okay, I will.
Speaker 1: Do that, Frank, But first, you know, related to what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Just before, I want to quote from
Speaker 1: the Talmud. Do not be daunted by the enormity of
Speaker 1: the world's grief. Do justly now, love mercy, Now walk humbly. Now.
Speaker 1: You're not obligated to complete the work, but neither are
Speaker 1: you free to abandon it. And that's that's the that's
Speaker 1: the balance that brings us into better alignment with with
Speaker 1: our own health and well being.
Speaker 2: Brilliant, Thank you for that. Please tell you that your
Speaker 2: books are important. They really are.
Speaker 1: I'm not patronizing, and I so appreciate that. Frank. That's
Speaker 1: very sweet and generous of you, and I know it's sincere,
Speaker 1: but so so. My first book is Some Assembly Required,
Speaker 1: a Balance Approach to recovery from addiction and chronic pain,
Speaker 1: and it's about it's about recovery from the co occurring
Speaker 1: disorders of addiction and chronic pain when they take place together,
Speaker 1: where they reinforce and activate each other, those two disorders
Speaker 1: in very powerful ways, where it gets very difficult to
Speaker 1: separate one from from the other. Uh. And part of
Speaker 1: part of that book is is is my own story.
Speaker 1: About a third of it is fairly autobiographical, but the
Speaker 1: rest of it is psycho educational and lays out a
Speaker 1: multi dimensional approach to recovery from both of those pernicious
Speaker 1: co occurring disorders. And the second book is Roots and
Speaker 1: Wings Mindful Parenting in Recovery, which by the way, has
Speaker 1: just been republished. It's a revised edition, new on Amazon
Speaker 1: and other outlets, and it's about applying mindfulness practices to parenting,
Speaker 1: with special sections for parents who are in recovery themselves,
Speaker 1: although the vast majority of the content, probably eighty five
Speaker 1: to ninety percent, applies very directly to any parent, whether
Speaker 1: they're in addiction recovery or not. Parenting is difficult. It's complicated.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most challenging activities a human being
Speaker 1: can get involved in. That and long term committed romantic
Speaker 1: part partnerships and podcasting.
Speaker 2: Podcasting is hard too, no doubt. Spect my friend Dan,
Speaker 2: I know I've got my eye because I know you
Speaker 2: have to get going. I so appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2: This was just so much fun. I knew it would
Speaker 2: be informative, fun and warm hearted, as I knew it
Speaker 2: would be.
Speaker 1: Thank you, my friend, my pleasure, Frank, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: It's it's always it's always beautiful to spend time with you.
Speaker 2: Pleasure is always mine. Of course, we offer special thanks
Speaker 2: to our listeners who take time to give us a
Speaker 2: voice in their lives. Remember, who offer fresh topic just
Speaker 2: about every week. Catch us wherever and whenever you get
Speaker 2: your favorite podcasts. Check us out on the Hudson River
Speaker 2: Radio Facebook page. Like us if you would and leave
Speaker 2: us a comment. Remember you can always catch my writing.
Speaker 2: I publish every Friday in Nayak News and Views. I
Speaker 2: also have my own blog, talk Frank dot blogspot dot com,
Speaker 2: and you can read more about my brain musics. Okay,
Speaker 2: I always leave you a couple of last little things
Speaker 2: and why not one directly from the Grateful Dead. It
Speaker 2: kind of sums it all up with a long, strange trip.
Speaker 2: It's been okay, keep on trucking, everybody. We've got some
Speaker 2: great original music from Johnny Markowski. You mentioned new writers
Speaker 2: of the Purple Sage. He drummed for them for a while.
Speaker 2: Johnny Markowski and the Jeb Jones Band. The great song
Speaker 2: to close our show, don't Cry for Me for our engineer,
Speaker 2: mister Neil Richter the Mailman. I'm your host, Frank Lebono,
Speaker 2: and we hope to have you join us the next
Speaker 2: being Frank, We're the only way to be is Frank.
Speaker 1: Soon?
Speaker 2: No, probably.
Speaker 3: Lost the.
Speaker 2: Resting peace thinking.
Speaker 1: That bas me.
Speaker 2: When it's time with me. I hope you don't do
Speaker 2: you cream when I dies? No, probably.
Speaker 3: Parts.
Speaker 1: I pray.
Speaker 3: Walk into the thing that does not be going to
Speaker 3: do We're not that.
Speaker 2: Don't grab me. When the sun says you Ris answered.
Speaker 1: Good bad.
Speaker 2: Walk in their mom I see you when I'll go,
Speaker 2: I'll do.
Speaker 3: Don't grow me.
Speaker 2: When I'm die, don't me.
Speaker 1: H. This is Hudson River Radio dot com