Speaker 1: We all find comfort in different things. It may be
Speaker 1: simple you enjoy listening to music, reading a book, or
Speaker 1: doing a crossword puzzle. But some people find comfort in
Speaker 1: things far more sinister. In the story of Anatole moskn
Speaker 1: he found comfort in the deceased, and for nine years
Speaker 1: he would go about saving the abandon at least that's
Speaker 1: what he convinced himself he was doing.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben and this is Wicked and Grim,
Speaker 2: a true crime podcast.
Speaker 3: Good morning following podcasteien listener dis question is that, Okay,
Speaker 3: let's play a game.
Speaker 1: I open a can. You open a can, and we'll
Speaker 1: see if people can tell who opened the can.
Speaker 2: I was like just about to open it to your
Speaker 2: good timing.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so let's just pause, Okay, Reset, Reset.
Speaker 2: One of us has put a.
Speaker 1: Man down, is going to go first?
Speaker 2: Okay. So that's option A, and this is option B.
Speaker 2: Which one was? Which? Can you guess?
Speaker 1: I was trying so hard. I didn't set myself.
Speaker 2: You did, you could have done great or.
Speaker 1: You have done no way that anyone did not give Yeah,
Speaker 1: but don't give it away, just in case, give it away.
Speaker 2: Give it away, Give it away, now, give it away.
Speaker 2: Give it away, Give it away. Now, what's up. How's
Speaker 2: it going?
Speaker 1: Oh, anyway, I'm going to work on that. It's hard, okay,
Speaker 1: I find it hard to do with the microphone in
Speaker 1: the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally the microphone one percent.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Anyway, welcome back to Wicked Ingram.
Speaker 2: I think this is our one hundred and twenty first episode.
Speaker 2: Holy heck, which is wild. That's amazing. And I haven't
Speaker 2: looked at our numbers for the previous I don't know
Speaker 2: a month or so, but I do know we are
Speaker 2: coming up on one million downloads. Oh my gosh. I mean,
Speaker 2: technically we might have already hit it. I'm not too certain.
Speaker 2: I don't think so, but it is coming up quick
Speaker 2: at least we should, so that's cool. We had a
Speaker 2: lot of thank you to you guys for all that,
Speaker 2: so thank you, and of course we have thank you
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Speaker 2: sure do, which super fun fact. Signing up to Patreon
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Speaker 2: are getting a double whammy today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens more often than not. I feel like
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Speaker 1: Yeah we have two episodes, you know, like we actually
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Speaker 1: B Yeah, let's thank them and then I have some
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Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, we did a wicked box draw. We
Speaker 1: did so we did two boxes, so one on Instagram
Speaker 1: and then every single Patreon just patron.
Speaker 2: Y one on Instagram and Facebook, so the combination.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got one. Yeah, whenever I say Instagram, I
Speaker 1: mean both. They got one just automatically. And like the
Speaker 1: amount of oments that we got that were so kind.
Speaker 1: I didn't actually realize I needed that, but it actually
Speaker 1: brought me so much joy. Holy heck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it made us feel really good. So some of
Speaker 2: the stuff that we didn't even realize, you guys appreciated. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we we appreciated that.
Speaker 1: It was really cool to read. I think some of
Speaker 1: the top ones. Well, not Cool Carl was definitely.
Speaker 2: A top Yes, I think that was probably a number one.
Speaker 1: Which I think we might actually do another giveaway for
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Speaker 1: Carl merch now.
Speaker 2: We do, which is really cool and it's probably our
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's retro, right, like the retro vibe and
Speaker 1: then the other one as embarrassing as it is Brigan
Speaker 1: Donnelly's episode. Oh I'm glad you guys enjoy that. I
Speaker 1: begged Ben.
Speaker 2: She did not want to upload that episode.
Speaker 1: We have to redo this, like I'm sorry, but like
Speaker 1: there's no way this is going up and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's going on.
Speaker 2: It was way too funny. It was way too funny.
Speaker 2: So there there was marital disputes over that episode airing.
Speaker 1: I mean that was what my second episode. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I was kind of nervous. I still get freaking nervous.
Speaker 1: I get nervous about everything in life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's worked out pretty good. You do awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It's funny. I'm glad we put it
Speaker 1: out there. A lot of people have found joy in that,
Speaker 1: so I guess that's something.
Speaker 2: I think when we do have a new listener and
Speaker 2: they go back and start from episode one and they
Speaker 2: get to episode five, we pretty much always get a message,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, the Donnilly's the orgasm thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was a funny mistake. Okay, are we
Speaker 1: ready to roll?
Speaker 2: I think, So what do you got for us today?
Speaker 1: Okay, so today we're talking about anatotlely moskmin Sweet. Do
Speaker 1: you know who this is?
Speaker 2: I they do only because of you telling me slight
Speaker 2: little things about him. If it wasn't for you saying anything,
Speaker 2: I would have had no clue.
Speaker 1: I've actually had this case on my list for quite
Speaker 1: a while. I'd probably say, like a good year for
Speaker 1: some reason, I haven't done it. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I mean we do have a lot of
Speaker 2: cases like that that are just sitting on our list,
Speaker 2: waiting for one day, the right day.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I write shit down in books and
Speaker 1: then I forget about the book, and then I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So Anatolely was born in Russia in nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 1: He had a love for learning that started at a
Speaker 1: very young age. And to give you an idea just
Speaker 1: how smart he was. By the time he graduated from
Speaker 1: Moscow State University, Anatoly was fluent in thirteen languages. Holy shit,
Speaker 1: that is beyond that. How was my mind old? Once
Speaker 1: he had graduated from university.
Speaker 2: Wow, so he's probably like maybe twenty twenty two, twenty
Speaker 2: five tops something like that. Yeah, because is that that
Speaker 2: not that you can't be older to graduate university. Don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong, it's just that era. Usually they're quite
Speaker 2: young to graduate.
Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, and I believe that he kind of went
Speaker 1: after high school, went to university kind of thing. There
Speaker 1: wasn't any breaks or anything. But yeah, that is mind
Speaker 1: blowing to me.
Speaker 2: That is wild. I barely speak English and flagelence.
Speaker 1: I know I am going to add a second language
Speaker 1: one day, but I cannot even imagine thirteen. There's just
Speaker 1: no way. There's no way.
Speaker 2: That's wild.
Speaker 1: He is using his full brain.
Speaker 2: I think we had this conversation before. What would your
Speaker 2: second language be that you want to learn?
Speaker 1: I think I've talked about Spanish before. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It would be somewhere that I'd really want to go visit,
Speaker 1: I think, and then learn that language that when I
Speaker 1: go there. I mean, gosh, you would go there and
Speaker 1: you'd still fuck up, you'd still look like you didn't
Speaker 1: fit in.
Speaker 2: But oh, yeah, for sure, one hundred percent, one hundred percentred.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be really conscious of that now because
Speaker 2: everyone talked about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what's the other thing? You always say, to
Speaker 1: be fair, to be fair? So bends one percent to
Speaker 1: be fair to be fair. Okay, So he would be
Speaker 1: described as someone incredibly intelligent, basically a genius, but a
Speaker 1: bit odd and eccentric to say the least, which would
Speaker 1: not be the first time a highly intelligent person would
Speaker 1: be described that way. Not all, but very often intelligent
Speaker 1: people struggle with social skills For a number of reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's pretty normal for them to be abnormal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah. I've met a few people like that
Speaker 1: and stuff, and it's it's fair. I mean, like, gosh,
Speaker 1: speaking thirteen languages, would you have time to do anything else?
Speaker 1: They probably don't even have time to be social, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so Anatolely would become an expert in Celtic history
Speaker 1: and folklore, with some people believing that he had this
Speaker 1: interest in folklore if I could speak, it was only
Speaker 1: a byproduct of his main interest of the occult.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's got some interesting interests he does, actually, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the occult interests folks, Like, there's some wild stories within
Speaker 2: all of those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're really just getting started. He's he is
Speaker 1: kind of interesting. I'll give him that. I'll give him that.
Speaker 3: Ka.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean we're talking about him in a podcast, So.
Speaker 2: There is some interests within his story everything there.
Speaker 1: So he was a collector with over sixty thousand books
Speaker 1: and documents in just his own personal library.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's a library and a half.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like I maybe have like ten books. Wow,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I can't speak thirteen language.
Speaker 2: Well, we do live in a tiny home.
Speaker 1: Though, douche, I actually had got rid of a lot
Speaker 1: of books.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if we could fit sixty thousand
Speaker 2: books in our tiny No.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean some of them I said were documents, right, oh, Toche,
Speaker 1: So it could have just been papers or whatever. He
Speaker 1: wrote several books on the many languages he spoke, and
Speaker 1: he helped translate an incredible amount of work for his
Speaker 1: fellow academics working in the field of linguistics. Perhaps more importantly,
Speaker 1: anatotally wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, he was commissioned to write
Speaker 1: a summary and a complete list of the dead in
Speaker 1: over seventy or seven hundred cemeteries. Holy Shitni Nosgors and
Speaker 1: anatotally jumped at the opportunity.
Speaker 2: Okay, if I may ask, what's Noa?
Speaker 1: So that's a city in Russia? Okay, Sorry if if
Speaker 1: I butchered that pronunciation to anyone listening from.
Speaker 2: Russia, another language is what you're trying to speak, I
Speaker 2: think it's going to be an issue.
Speaker 1: It would be like you all trying to pronounce Coquitlam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or I was gonna see Nanaimo. Some people have trouble
Speaker 1: with Nanaimo, but Coquitlam for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So maybe not everyone's cup of tea, but it was
Speaker 1: necessary work that he needed to do or that they
Speaker 1: wanted him to do. I've heard of many people finding
Speaker 1: peace and graveyards, and I don't necessarily think that's an
Speaker 1: abnormal thing. But he liked his time in the graveyards.
Speaker 2: Graveyards are honestly a very peaceful place.
Speaker 1: They are.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to argue anyone who says
Speaker 2: they're creepy, they're weird. Sure, I'm not gonna argue that.
Speaker 2: Very true. They very much so can but.
Speaker 1: More so at night. I feel like we used to
Speaker 1: live by one kind of when we live by Costco,
Speaker 1: and I used to kind of do a bit of
Speaker 1: running at that time, and I would love to run
Speaker 1: through the graveyard. And I know a lot of people
Speaker 1: thought that was so weird, but I was like, I
Speaker 1: actually run amazing in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's very very peaceful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so peaceful. A lot of people find peace
Speaker 1: in there.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean theoretically most people will eventually find peace
Speaker 2: in one. Yes, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Even gonna let's just move on, you know what. I mean,
Speaker 1: so okay, so anatotally got to work doing a job
Speaker 1: that most people would have turned down. He had a
Speaker 1: work on foot, walking about thirty kilometers a day and
Speaker 1: make detailed reports of the grapes he visited, often sleeping
Speaker 1: on site exposed to the elements, or if lucky, getting
Speaker 1: a hay bill to sleep on. And when he ran
Speaker 1: out of drinking water, he'd drink rain water from puddles,
Speaker 1: from puddles, which I actually just hate because it's amazing
Speaker 1: that he didn't get bringing sick. Yeah, kid, sick from.
Speaker 2: That rainwater is one thing, but yeah, from the puddle
Speaker 2: from puddle. No.
Speaker 1: He also said he spent one night sleeping in a coffin.
Speaker 1: He obviously took his work very seriously. Wow, some of
Speaker 1: the shit in this case. So I'm like, is this
Speaker 1: guy just making this up? Because that just seems weird
Speaker 1: because I think one article I read so the coffin
Speaker 1: was just there waiting to be filled the next day.
Speaker 1: But that's not how it works, I don't think. Because
Speaker 1: they don't bring the body to the cemetery. They bring
Speaker 1: the body in the coffin to the cemetery. As far
Speaker 1: as I know.
Speaker 2: You're looking at a different country.
Speaker 1: That's true. Maybe I should have googled that that is true.
Speaker 1: But yeah, as far as I know, the body always
Speaker 1: came in the coffin.
Speaker 2: But who knows as far as Hollywood has taught us.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've never really had a dealing with how
Speaker 2: to put a body in a box and bury it.
Speaker 1: See, I've gone to a few like funerals where it's
Speaker 1: open casket. Yes, and I'm assuming that the body stays
Speaker 1: in there. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, procedures nowadays are a lot different. This
Speaker 2: is nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: Well this wouldn't This would have been in the two
Speaker 1: thousands at this time.
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, Oh and I could imagine that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe not so much.
Speaker 1: But like you said, it is overseas and lots of
Speaker 1: countries in different areas of the world do things far differently,
Speaker 1: which is fine.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So when he was done this massive undertaking, Ana totally
Speaker 1: found work as a freelance journalist when he often and
Speaker 1: he where he often wrote stories about his experiencing is
Speaker 1: roughing it in the cemeteries that he did study. That
Speaker 1: was until November twenty eleven, when Anatole's name was in
Speaker 1: the paper for a totally different reason, okay, and.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming this is going to be where he's uh
Speaker 2: compiling some bodies.
Speaker 1: Well, you shall see, you see. Starting back in about
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, reports of vandalized or reports of vandal vandalism, vandalism,
Speaker 1: vandalism and sometimes even graves that had been completely emptied
Speaker 1: started coming into police So people were being notified of this.
Speaker 2: Okay, I know where this is going.
Speaker 1: Anatotally was questioned, especially especially given his well known work
Speaker 1: in around the local cemeteries. But he had a good
Speaker 1: reason to be there, and no one expected an academic
Speaker 1: like he was to be desecrating graves. That was until
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, when he was literally caught doing so. By then,
Speaker 1: more reports were coming in, this time about Muslim graves
Speaker 1: being vandalized, and this time it carred a heavier implication.
Speaker 1: A recent terrorist attack had people on edge and thinking
Speaker 1: this new wave of vandalism had a political or racial
Speaker 1: charged motive. The police had been keeping an eye on
Speaker 1: the Muslim cemetery around the city, which is how they
Speaker 1: caught anatolely in action defacing a grave and he was
Speaker 1: a force arrested.
Speaker 2: So when you say defacing a grave, what exactly was
Speaker 2: he doing to sit grave well, I think or any
Speaker 2: of the graves when he was defacing them, because.
Speaker 1: We're going to get into more detail about what he
Speaker 1: was doing. But in defacing sometimes he would just take
Speaker 1: pieces of the grave, like I mean, I you know
Speaker 1: how sometimes like graves have like a picture. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: might like black or something that.
Speaker 2: Off huh interesting.
Speaker 1: As like a keepsake. I guess you could say, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is actually brutal people who go and vandalize or
Speaker 1: do anything and cemeteries are terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah that that's like one of the fucking lowest things
Speaker 2: you can do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really agree, not.
Speaker 2: One of the most horrific, don't get me wrong. There
Speaker 2: there's a big difference, but one of the lowest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unnecessary, completely unnecessary. So still thinking that this was
Speaker 1: part of a hate crime, the police then went to
Speaker 1: his home, where they uncovered more than they ever bargained for.
Speaker 1: Anatoly forty five at the time, had never moved out
Speaker 1: of his family home. He very well lived alone, though
Speaker 1: with his parents in a different country for a lot
Speaker 1: of the year, which left him to his own devices,
Speaker 1: and he managed to keep himself very busy despite never
Speaker 1: being in a relationship that we know of.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that keep very busy. Is is
Speaker 2: an interesting very busy, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Because I mean like, if you're in a relationship,
Speaker 1: that shit takes time.
Speaker 2: But I'm not gonna lie. You take a lot of effort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they take a lot of time, like a lot
Speaker 1: of time.
Speaker 2: No, you specifically take of course.
Speaker 1: Of course, try living with.
Speaker 2: You, dude, I trust me, I do. It's I'm not easy,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Okay. So the house was jam packed. As I mentioned,
Speaker 1: Anatoly was a collector with possibly a hoarding disorder disorder
Speaker 1: as well, and that is my personal diagnosis because I
Speaker 1: saw some footage of the police like walking through his
Speaker 1: home and there's a lot of shit in that house.
Speaker 2: For a moment there, I thought you said that your
Speaker 2: personal diagnosis of yourself was that you're not anymore.
Speaker 1: I feel like I used to be a order.
Speaker 2: You were a hoarder. You were just a eccentric collector
Speaker 2: of things, of things, saying stuff and things.
Speaker 1: Yes, so it was impossible to see the floor in places,
Speaker 1: So that that to me, you know, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in there.
Speaker 2: Well, technically it's impossible to see a floor with a
Speaker 2: rug on.
Speaker 1: It, I guess, but there was it was like clutter,
Speaker 1: an accumulation from clutter in each room. But what God
Speaker 1: investigators was actually the smell.
Speaker 2: Well, here we go. I do know that a lot
Speaker 2: of places with like those extreme hoarding situations there does
Speaker 2: tend to be a smell. But I have a feeling
Speaker 2: you're going on a different route.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times the smell is from
Speaker 1: food too, because I think sometimes they even have troubles
Speaker 1: throwing up food or like packaging that food was in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it becomes filth. Well, you can't clean with
Speaker 2: that much stuff everywhere too, right, Yeah, and then there's
Speaker 2: a whole I've seen some with bathroom problems too, so.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, oh with animals and stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, animals and actual individuals.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I think there was one that I saw where the
Speaker 2: actual individual kept there really sperments that was one of
Speaker 2: their hoarding things.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 2: Actually, Yeah, that's that's hum that's something so.
Speaker 1: The host ink okay, almost like something was rotting inside
Speaker 1: and the police wanted to figure out what that smell
Speaker 1: could be or where what it was coming from, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I just thought of another reason that a
Speaker 2: house could Sorry I digress, but because it could very
Speaker 2: well be moisture build up under a lot of these things, right,
Speaker 2: Mold issues that sort of thing very much, so it
Speaker 2: could beating factor.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm just like breathing in that mold. That's so
Speaker 1: bad for you. Hey, yes, okay, wow, wow, so wall search.
Speaker 2: No one's eating right now?
Speaker 1: I know I can't. I actually, when I was researching
Speaker 1: this case, couldn't really eat. Lots of times I do
Speaker 1: like eat while I'm researching or watching true crime shit,
Speaker 1: and this one just I couldn't for some reason. But
Speaker 1: it could have just been the day. It is gross too. Okay,
Speaker 1: where were we? I'm just like all over the place.
Speaker 1: So while searching, they found documents and books on doll
Speaker 1: making and mummification. Yeah, and they also found okay, twenty
Speaker 1: six life sized dolls, just twenty round. Some are on shelves,
Speaker 1: some were on the floor, some were in the garage.
Speaker 2: Hold on twenty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty six of.
Speaker 2: Them life size dolls. How many were human?
Speaker 1: It didn't take long to put two and two together,
Speaker 1: and the realization was horrifying. The dolls they weren't actually dolls.
Speaker 1: They were the mummified remains of girls previously deceased who
Speaker 1: had already been laid to rest and then dug up.
Speaker 2: Fuck all twenty six of them.
Speaker 1: All twenty six.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is a lot of mummified humans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I couldn't even imagine going into that room
Speaker 1: and discovering that, because dolls alone are creepy. Oh yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and these were kind of how would you describe them vintage?
Speaker 1: I don't know, they looked I don't even know where
Speaker 1: I'm going.
Speaker 2: Well, it was that gesture.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they looked kind of olden days ish, right,
Speaker 1: And so that would be creepy enough. And then when
Speaker 1: you find out that they're literally like they were people,
Speaker 1: Oh my godness. So the girls were women ranged in
Speaker 1: age from three to two twenty five years old, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of reports do say, I think it
Speaker 1: was three to twelve or three to thirteen years old,
Speaker 1: but then a lot of them say most the majority
Speaker 1: of them say they ranged from twenty five, which I
Speaker 1: find harder to believe. You think that they would be
Speaker 1: more so younger girls. But anyway, the majority said three
Speaker 1: to twenty five years old.
Speaker 2: Wow, oh oh, okay, so children.
Speaker 1: Yes, girls, young young girls.
Speaker 2: Children, some of these are children.
Speaker 1: Yeah, infants even I think a three year old would
Speaker 1: probably consider toddler. Yeah, toddler and infants probably like zero
Speaker 1: to one.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So remember when I mentioned back in about two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine reports of vandalized and sometimes even graves that
Speaker 1: have been completely emptied. Well, that was anttally surprise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: anatotally sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't see that. Coming back at.
Speaker 1: The police station, the investigators were left asking one simple question,
Speaker 1: a question that usually gets asked. Why.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course they wanted to know why anatole had done this,
Speaker 1: and he had some surprising answers for them.
Speaker 2: Okay, what did you have to say?
Speaker 1: When Anatolely was only a boy, he'd spent his time
Speaker 1: after school wandering the local cemeteries, examining graves, and becoming
Speaker 1: more and more interested in the dead. According to himself
Speaker 1: and even an article he wrote on one of those
Speaker 1: trips Anatolely had taken as a boy through the local cemetery,
Speaker 1: he actually interrupted a funeral. The funeral had been for
Speaker 1: an eleven year old girl, and in their grief, her
Speaker 1: surviving relatives had set upon anatolely see that. No, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just carry on and we'll talk about it after, Okay,
Speaker 1: So he wrote, an adult pushed my face down to
Speaker 1: the waxy forehead of the girl in an embroidered cap,
Speaker 1: and there was nothing I could do but kiss her
Speaker 1: as ordered. I kissed her once, then again, then again.
Speaker 1: According to Anatoley, the girl's mother then put a wedding
Speaker 1: ring on his finger that matched the one on the
Speaker 1: girl's body, and the two of them were officially married.
Speaker 1: What what like? Does that not? Okay? I have trouble
Speaker 1: believing that. Shit like that almost seems something like made
Speaker 1: up to me. Could you imagine being a young boy,
Speaker 1: You're walking through the cemetery. There happens to be a
Speaker 1: funeral of someone, maybe relatively the same age as you.
Speaker 1: The family brings you over to this funeral and forces
Speaker 1: you to kiss their deceased kid.
Speaker 2: That sounds like someone's dream they had. That's what it
Speaker 2: sounds like to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes I've actually had this happen to me before,
Speaker 1: where I forget, oh shit, actually I dreamed that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean like to be fit, to be fair,
Speaker 2: people are fucked up not saying that this couldn't happen.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't make any sense though.
Speaker 2: It's fucked up, like you would be grieving.
Speaker 1: Why would you want this random child just kissing your
Speaker 1: deceased kid like that. It just doesn't make anything.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. No, But like I said,
Speaker 2: it could have happened. It could happen.
Speaker 1: It totally could happen.
Speaker 2: Do I think it happened. I'm I mean, maybe there's
Speaker 2: more to this story. I don't know, but I'm leaning
Speaker 2: towards the fiction side of things.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, really, I feel like he's the only
Speaker 1: one that knows.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm thinking, so if this happened.
Speaker 1: With a kid, yeah, So he went on to explain in
Speaker 1: his article My Strange Marriage, the little girl's name was Natasha,
Speaker 1: So my strange marriage.
Speaker 2: How did he know her name?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I bet you anything that he would
Speaker 1: have later gone back and visited that grave, Oh, cursuer,
Speaker 1: so I could see him knowing the name. So he said,
Speaker 1: My strange marriage with Natasha was useful. It as the
Speaker 1: reason behind his belief in magic and his fascination with
Speaker 1: the dead, which were two of the reasons behind him
Speaker 1: going on to study Celtic history in folklore and the
Speaker 1: occult even probably Yeah. During his studies, Anatole had found
Speaker 1: out about the ancient druid beliefs in communicating with the dead.
Speaker 1: Druids would sleep on the graves of the dead in
Speaker 1: order to speak with them, and while anatolely was out
Speaker 1: documenting the graves, he started doing the same thing. He
Speaker 1: had his reasons too, He supposed or his supposed marriage
Speaker 1: to Natasha. Aside, he'd never been married, but that didn't
Speaker 1: mean that Anatoly didn't want to start a family. He
Speaker 1: at one point applied to an adoption agency to try
Speaker 1: to adopt a daughter, but his application had been denied.
Speaker 1: According to the agency, Anatoly didn't make enough money to
Speaker 1: support a child in the agency. Must have thought that
Speaker 1: was that and moved on. But after his failed application
Speaker 1: and it totally began keeping an eye on obituaries, especially
Speaker 1: those involving young children. Oh fuck yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I just I had a joke. I can't
Speaker 2: remember where I heard it before it and I was
Speaker 2: going to make it. But as soon as you said
Speaker 2: young children, I'm like, no, I'm not going to make
Speaker 2: that joke. It changes it. It changes it, It changes
Speaker 2: the joke.
Speaker 1: Everyone's gonna want to know what the joke.
Speaker 2: Now the joke is. I can't remember where I heard
Speaker 2: it from. I think it might have been explos them,
Speaker 2: you know those those web comics that are really like, yeah,
Speaker 2: adult oriented. Yeah, the joke was not abituary. You mean
Speaker 2: hotbituary that was That was the joke. But as soon
Speaker 2: as you mentioned children, that through that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't have said anything, I know. Okay,
Speaker 1: So once the funeral was over and the girls were
Speaker 1: buried and it totally would spend the nights sleeping on
Speaker 1: top of their graves and waiting for them to speak
Speaker 1: to him. According to him, he would ask them if
Speaker 1: they wanted a second chance to live, and if they did,
Speaker 1: he would dig them up and take them home.
Speaker 2: See, I have a problem with this.
Speaker 1: Outside I saw right away, you're just like moving your mic.
Speaker 1: You're like, no, I got this isn't right.
Speaker 2: Outside of the obvious of digging someone up and taking
Speaker 2: them home. Outside of that, why the fuck is he
Speaker 2: just going to the obituaries and sleeping on top of
Speaker 2: the grave to try and communicate with the dead, to
Speaker 2: find a spouse.
Speaker 1: Not a spouse, babe, a child.
Speaker 2: Or a child.
Speaker 1: Oh, so the adoption agencies did not let him adopt
Speaker 1: a kid, rightfully, so and so this is his way
Speaker 1: of getting a child.
Speaker 2: Okay, see I was thinking, we are going the necrophilia route.
Speaker 1: Oh no, oh, we're gonna make you disbelief. This doesn't
Speaker 1: have that.
Speaker 2: You and your necrophilia.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have it in there.
Speaker 2: Okay, you and your necroman See how's.
Speaker 1: That it doesn't have this?
Speaker 2: This is child necromancy.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, whatever. I know after after I picked this case,
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize you were like, really, yeah.
Speaker 2: More dead dead people being dug up?
Speaker 1: Way to go?
Speaker 2: I just there are a billion and one ways. I mean,
Speaker 2: it makes more sense. Not that I'm advocating this, It
Speaker 2: makes more sense to go and steal a child than
Speaker 2: digging up a deceased one.
Speaker 1: Yes, I feel like stealing a child and I don't know,
Speaker 1: they're both terrible, but like, I mean the other one
Speaker 1: is alive still right, and like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then he has a live child than.
Speaker 1: H dead one. No one would want him to have
Speaker 1: a live child.
Speaker 2: The only thing I can see on why he would
Speaker 2: go this route, which it is a plausible explanation, but
Speaker 2: it's a stretch in my opinion, is him seeing himself
Speaker 2: as so much of an outsider that he's finding someone
Speaker 2: else who is just as desperate as him, akaone who
Speaker 2: is deceased, who wants a second chance at life. They
Speaker 2: just want a family again, They want to be alive.
Speaker 2: They don't want to be in the ground. So a
Speaker 2: desperate person looking for a desperate person. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 2: only thing I can see.
Speaker 1: I also just need to know would you rather do
Speaker 1: a case about a spouse killing their spouse?
Speaker 2: Honestly, at this point, kind of you do you really do?
Speaker 1: Okay, where are we here? So anatotally didn't know. Okay,
Speaker 1: I see where the fuck we are? So I'm just like,
Speaker 1: where are we?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: Anatolely didn't know how to bring them back to life,
Speaker 1: and he knew that he'd have to wait a while
Speaker 1: for science to find a way to do it for him.
Speaker 1: So he feels like he's listening to these girls. They
Speaker 1: want to come back to life. He wants to bring
Speaker 1: them back to life, but he feels like, I guess
Speaker 1: science needs to catch up. So he's taking them home
Speaker 1: with him, right, and then he realizes that he needs
Speaker 1: to preserve the girl's bodies. Intel science is at that point,
Speaker 1: which it still isn't okay. So he began researching ways
Speaker 1: to mummify them. I feel like you're just like because his.
Speaker 2: Theory is there, but practicality it makes no fucking sense
Speaker 2: because just because you have the body, the skin, the bones,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you have the person. I know, you're
Speaker 2: not preserving their brain, you're not preserving their heartserving their consciousness.
Speaker 1: Or they're really not being preserved at all.
Speaker 2: It's on the most super superficial level that he is
Speaker 2: capturing who they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he settled on the solution of salt and
Speaker 1: baking soda, covering their hands, feet, and sometimes their face
Speaker 1: with cloths to cover their decomposition when it didn't always work,
Speaker 1: and then he began looking after them. He made them
Speaker 1: eyes so that they could watch cartoons with him. He
Speaker 1: painted the masks or the masks over their face with
Speaker 1: nail polish. He stuffed musical boxes and mementos from the
Speaker 1: graves inside them so they made noises when he would
Speaker 1: go to play with them.
Speaker 2: Jesus, what do he fucking stuff in their eye sockets?
Speaker 2: See him? Eyes?
Speaker 1: Buttons?
Speaker 2: Holy shit?
Speaker 1: Sometimes buttons? Was buttons?
Speaker 2: Fucking buttons? Anyone else out there thinking of Coraline, the
Speaker 2: other mother right.
Speaker 1: Now, also buttons or I think sometimes he did put
Speaker 1: doll eyes in there too.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Okay, okay, I can go on a whole
Speaker 2: other tangent here with this, but I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I wonder if anyone's going to comment how we say
Speaker 1: buttons button. I feel like people it's actually me have
Speaker 1: said that. I say button really like cutely or weirdly button, button,
Speaker 1: a little button. So they celebrated the holidays and even
Speaker 1: the girl's birthdays together, but it wasn't all happy family.
Speaker 1: Some of the girls turned on him and anatotally didn't
Speaker 1: like that. Then your face there, stop with the facial
Speaker 1: they they turned on him. Okay, they were still a family,
Speaker 1: they were still his daughters, but they weren't allowed in
Speaker 1: the house anymore, and it totally banished them to the garage,
Speaker 1: and that was where the police found several of the
Speaker 1: mummified remains when they arrested him in twenty eleven. All right,
Speaker 1: all right, I can't okay, I have this. Nothing about
Speaker 1: this is funny whatsoever, but your facial expressions right now,
Speaker 1: I just can't even.
Speaker 2: Look at you because I can't even fucking believe this, dude, Like,
Speaker 2: it's the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: It's very absurd.
Speaker 2: Like you said, police wanted to know why, and this
Speaker 2: is his why? Like what, Yeah, the I don't know
Speaker 2: how to put it in words, the disorders or condition
Speaker 2: that this individual has to do this sort of thing
Speaker 2: and think this way. Wow, all right, it's baffling to
Speaker 2: me to say, it's.
Speaker 1: Very baffling too. So Anatole was charged with the desecration
Speaker 1: of graves and dead bodies, which would have landed him
Speaker 1: apparently a maximum sense of five years if he was
Speaker 1: found guilty, which does not seem like enough. But it
Speaker 1: was pretty clear that he was guilty, and something else
Speaker 1: was pretty clear too. Anatotally was sent for a psychiatric evaluation. Rightfully, so,
Speaker 1: his parents claimed that he was fine. His parents actually
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I've put this in here,
Speaker 1: but they didn't think anything was wrong. They just thought
Speaker 1: that he liked to collect dolls. They didn't realize that
Speaker 1: they were human.
Speaker 2: Okay, they didn't realize they were human.
Speaker 1: They just thought that he kind of his hobby. Was Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if they thought he made them or what.
Speaker 2: WI dolls, Go for it. They're not dolls, mom, figures.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know if you know this about me,
Speaker 1: but do you know those like porcelain dolls? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: used to collect some of those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you had some.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, that's so embarrassing and you still married me.
Speaker 2: Hey yeah, yeah, you also collected beanie babies and personals babies.
Speaker 1: Makes sense because that was gonna be my life savings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does not make sense.
Speaker 1: Okay, so his call. His colleagues at the newspaper said
Speaker 1: he was eccentric and a bit quirky, but he wasn't
Speaker 1: capable of doing something like this, So, like people close
Speaker 1: to him, this was shocking. But the evaluation came back
Speaker 1: with very different results and it totally was diagnosed as
Speaker 1: having paranoid schizophrenia, and his doctor said that he was
Speaker 1: unfit to stand trial.
Speaker 2: That makes total sense. It does because he's literally putting voices, personalities,
Speaker 2: and everything to these remains of the individuals.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So he was therefore also determined to not be
Speaker 1: criminal liable for his crimes, even though in his interview
Speaker 1: with the police he admitted that he'd known and understood
Speaker 1: that what he was doing was illegal. But he'd done
Speaker 1: it anyway. He explained that the girls had been calling
Speaker 1: to him from beyond the grave, and he thought that
Speaker 1: it was more important to help them than it was
Speaker 1: to follow the law.
Speaker 2: I believe that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that, Like you almost you almost feel
Speaker 1: a little bit bad for him.
Speaker 2: I do. I wholeheartedly feel bad for him. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2: because I believe that he has this paranoid schizophrenia. I've
Speaker 2: talked to individuals before who have schizophrenia, and it's very
Speaker 2: real situation. There's one individual who had talked to before.
Speaker 2: He literally saw people, like a fucking person there in
Speaker 2: his room, oh wow, talking to him, and he would have.
Speaker 1: To like that wasn't there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd have to throw an object at them to
Speaker 2: see if he hit them, to see if they were real.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. See that's scary.
Speaker 2: That it is. And so someone who's dealing with this
Speaker 2: sort of thing, Yeah, they would definitely say, Okay, these
Speaker 2: people are really talking to me. It's a real situation.
Speaker 1: He legitimately believed that he was helping them, yeah, and
Speaker 1: eye his head right.
Speaker 2: So I feel bad for him because of that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fucking weird. Yeah, but I I do.
Speaker 1: Feel for him, So he said, Okay, where was I.
Speaker 2: Not that he's the weird one. The situation is weird.
Speaker 2: Having to deal with that, thinking of talking to a
Speaker 2: dead person.
Speaker 1: Is oh yeah, no, I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not saying he's weird.
Speaker 1: Any One that kind of doesn't have this mental illness
Speaker 1: that's terrifying, right, So so he said this right before
Speaker 1: he told the police that he'd started bringing the girls
Speaker 1: home before speaking with them because he was getting old
Speaker 1: and was getting harder for him to sleep on top
Speaker 1: of the graves. He said he'd started sleeping next to
Speaker 1: them at home and hope that being inside would actually
Speaker 1: help them feel more comfortable communicating with him, but who
Speaker 1: knows if it actually did. He also rounded up the
Speaker 1: whole interview. See this, there is some bullshit stuff in here.
Speaker 1: So he rounded up the whole interview by telling the
Speaker 1: police not to bother bearing the girls too deeply because
Speaker 1: he was going to dig them back up as soon
Speaker 1: as he was released anyway. Yeah, see that's bullshit.
Speaker 2: That is.
Speaker 1: So back to his evaluation, anatotally suffered from a form
Speaker 1: of pard schizophrenia and was unfit to stand trial, but
Speaker 1: he was also unfit to be released back to the public.
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to a psychiatric hospital to receive treatment
Speaker 1: until he was either well enough to go to court
Speaker 1: or be released. In twenty thirteen, his stay was extended.
Speaker 1: It continued to be extended until twenty eighteen. This was
Speaker 1: when his doctors claimed that Anatole was no longer a
Speaker 1: danger to society and petitioned to have him released. He
Speaker 1: would still be receiving care and would have to live
Speaker 1: at home with his parents, but he'd be free and
Speaker 1: able to roam the streets again. This came on top
Speaker 1: of a petition from Anatole's lawyers, who claimed that Anatole
Speaker 1: almost unbelievably was requesting to leave the facility because he
Speaker 1: wouldn't They wouldn't let him get married someone somewhere with
Speaker 1: his face plastered all over the news for his horrible crimes.
Speaker 1: A twenty five year old linguistic student had seen something
Speaker 1: in him that she liked. She and Anatole had become
Speaker 1: pen pals, and through the years they had turned that
Speaker 1: into a friendship, which had then turned into a romantic interest.
Speaker 1: That was about as far as they could go. When
Speaker 1: Anatole was still in a psychiatric hospital and considered to
Speaker 1: have a mental illness. No comments there.
Speaker 2: I do have comments that I'm just waiting for you.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have covered cases where this sort of
Speaker 1: thing happens. It seems like people sometimes almost get an
Speaker 1: obsession with some criminal when they go to jail and stuff. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and actually, I don't know if you realized
Speaker 2: how much this has been paralleling the greyhound bus murder,
Speaker 2: the beheading. I can't remember the individual, but he was schizophrenic,
Speaker 2: did not take his medication, had the incident on the bus,
Speaker 2: was hearing voices and all the shit. Yeah, went to court,
Speaker 2: was not criminally negligent, went to psychiatric care and was
Speaker 2: eventually released, and there was an outcry from public over it. Now,
Speaker 2: he brutally murdered someone and was willingly off his medication.
Speaker 2: The difference between that and this This individual will didn't
Speaker 2: harm any living person.
Speaker 1: But still he harmed the loved ones, Yes.
Speaker 2: Very much.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: He desecrated graves. Yeah, and it was emotional damage to
Speaker 2: loved ones. That's not a crime. However, physically everyone can
Speaker 2: still walk and talk and go about with their day,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. So I believe this is
Speaker 2: a classic case where someone can be rehabilitated and be
Speaker 2: reintroduced into society wholeheartedly. I do. I believe he should
Speaker 2: be released on certain conditions. Medication, care checkups. Definitely. You're
Speaker 2: fucking not allowed to go to.
Speaker 1: Graveyards heck no, yeah, or really be around like children, probably,
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if anything of those is breached, then he's
Speaker 2: going back into care. That is my thoughts. I don't
Speaker 2: think that anyone is undeserving of love, whether you commit
Speaker 2: a horrific crime or not. I really don't, because that
Speaker 2: could bring you out of whatever dark place you were in.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: So these two finding each other, Hey, good for them.
Speaker 1: I mean there was quite an age difference between them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we if fucking Charles Manson found his bride,
Speaker 2: his his fucking his one. Hey, good for Charles Charles Manson.
Speaker 2: I'm glad he has someone. He's still a fucking piece
Speaker 2: of shit, but hey, he's got someone. Maybe it'll better him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean sometimes I actually love ken better people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it can make it. Sometimes it can make them worse too,
Speaker 1: So there's a flip side to everything.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that someone can find that in someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it would have been on her to
Speaker 1: reach out to him, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And beauty is in the eye to beholder one
Speaker 2: way or another, so.
Speaker 1: I think there was often to say on that. There
Speaker 1: were some articles as well that said that she'd had
Speaker 1: even gone to his trial.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean good for them.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he had reached out to his lawyers. He
Speaker 1: wanted to move to Moscow and marry his girlfriend. Of course,
Speaker 1: the victims' families shared their concerns, with the press putting
Speaker 1: on the pressure to keep him locked up, and before
Speaker 1: anyone knew it, Anatotally's petition was under consideration once again,
Speaker 1: though it was ultimately determined that anatotally stay at the
Speaker 1: hospital would be extended and he would not be released.
Speaker 1: And so, as far as I can tell, that's where
Speaker 1: he still is today. But sometimes I feel like, especially
Speaker 1: in situations like this, they may be released and not
Speaker 1: even be notified. Yeah, the public too, right, because he
Speaker 1: could be in danger if he is put out. So
Speaker 1: but as far as I can tell, he still is
Speaker 1: away for now.
Speaker 2: I think the best case scenario would be that he
Speaker 2: does not ever get a full release. I think, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's day passes, like, hey, you can go out to
Speaker 2: your thing. With all these stipulations you have to check
Speaker 2: in and you have someone follow you whatever, and you
Speaker 2: leave at eight, you're back by four something like that
Speaker 2: or nine to five whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Like, I definitely think being out in the
Speaker 1: daylight would be better if he was kind of not
Speaker 1: out at night, because at night you could kind of
Speaker 1: get away with things in graveyards more so.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and like you say, not around children or anything,
Speaker 2: because he clearly has a thing with children. And if
Speaker 2: grave robbing didn't work, hey, maybe abducting would. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: So we would want to make sure there are all
Speaker 2: those risks taken care of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is kind of my thought here. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I do think in rare instances, people who have
Speaker 1: committed crimes do have the power to change and be rehabilitated.
Speaker 1: But for that to happen, I think remorse for their
Speaker 1: actions does need to be shown. Yes, and Anatoly doesn't
Speaker 1: have any remorse for his actions.
Speaker 2: Okay, If he doesn't, then, yeah.
Speaker 1: He refuses to apologize to the victims families. In twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: he said, these girls are girls. There are no parents.
Speaker 1: In my view, I don't know any of them. Besides,
Speaker 1: they buried their daughters and this is where I believe
Speaker 1: their rights over them finished. So no, I would not apologize.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 1: One more earlier. He told the parents you abandon your
Speaker 1: girls in the cold, and I brought them home and
Speaker 1: warmed them up, which honestly makes my blood like boil. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that's brutal, it is. And this is years
Speaker 1: after he did this shit too.
Speaker 2: He's not over his schizophrenia. He's still got this point
Speaker 2: of view of they are talking to me, they need
Speaker 2: my help, and I'm going to bypass the law and
Speaker 2: clearly these parents to do so. Yeah, so if he
Speaker 2: can ever get over that, then I may advocate for
Speaker 2: him to potentially be released. Uncertain, Yeah we can't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly agree with.
Speaker 1: You, because I mean initially he basically was like, don't
Speaker 1: bury them too deeply. Now he's not apologizing to the
Speaker 1: family and he's basically accusing them for leaving them in
Speaker 1: the cold, Like that's not okay, that's not okay. He
Speaker 1: needs to have remorse for what he's done.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, definitely, definitely why did you let me
Speaker 2: go on a rent like that? Saying I fucking advocate
Speaker 2: for him? And then you're like, actually, he's a piece
Speaker 2: of shit, and I'm just like, wow, well now I
Speaker 2: feel like a complete douche Canado.
Speaker 1: Thanks, that's I had to let you get your words
Speaker 1: out right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but all I need to do is let you
Speaker 2: talk for another minute, and my whole theories and shit
Speaker 2: would have changed.
Speaker 1: Well anyway, I'm sure people enjoyed it so rightfully. So
Speaker 1: the victims' families claim that there'll be no peace for
Speaker 1: them if he does ever get released. One of the victims,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was one of the first victims.
Speaker 1: She was aged ten when anatolely dug her up and
Speaker 1: this little girl had been murdered. So to say that
Speaker 1: her family had already been through enough would be an understatement.
Speaker 1: Her mother didn't realize that on a regular basis, she
Speaker 1: was visiting her daughter's grave, but yet her daughter's remains
Speaker 1: were no longer there. She's been quoted to say, I
Speaker 1: am also very afraid that he will go back to
Speaker 1: the old ways. I have no faith in his recovery.
Speaker 1: He's a fanatic. She fears he will find her daughter
Speaker 1: once again and they will have to do this all
Speaker 1: over again, go through this hell all over again. She said,
Speaker 1: my health is failing me, and I don't think I
Speaker 1: can face this. I do not want tragic events. Life
Speaker 1: is tough anyway. Now, she has consistently been opposed to
Speaker 1: his release and would be happy to know he will
Speaker 1: spend his life in the hospital forever. That is what
Speaker 1: she wants. And then Anatole's parents have also suffered. Apparently
Speaker 1: they now have to live in isolation with a community
Speaker 1: that has turned on them. The wife even suggests that
Speaker 1: they perhaps kill themselves, but her husband refused. They're both
Speaker 1: in unhealthy states.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So I mean that's the other thing. This has affected people,
Speaker 1: even his parents, in such horrible ways. And but yet
Speaker 1: he's not really like remorseful. So is he healed? Like,
Speaker 1: is he actually rehabilitated.
Speaker 2: No, if he's not remorseful, he's not. And that's that's
Speaker 2: the key. He needs to get the help he needs
Speaker 2: to get there. And if he can't get that help
Speaker 2: or he can't get there, then that's a boundary he's
Speaker 2: never going to be able to overcome.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just at the end there, when you were
Speaker 2: talking about his parents, I just realized the irony in
Speaker 2: this whole case, because he's talking about wanting to have
Speaker 2: a family wanting to find children right, bring them home,
Speaker 2: and he wants to be the best for his children.
Speaker 2: So he wants a family, yet he turned his back
Speaker 2: and his actual family. He wants the perfect children, and
Speaker 2: he was probably the worst of what a child could be.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I can't imagine. I mean, for
Speaker 1: many years he probably was okay, but it's like, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine what they're going through now.
Speaker 2: But his relation his acts as a child drove his
Speaker 2: parents to have a conversation if they should kill themselves
Speaker 2: or not. Yeah, what kind of child does that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really sad.
Speaker 2: Maybe he should have thought about what he was like
Speaker 2: as a child to his parents before he was looking
Speaker 2: for his own.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean one of the articles did say they
Speaker 1: were still living in that same spot, so the parents
Speaker 1: do need to probably move. But I mean there would
Speaker 1: be old They would be quite older at this time too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 2: That's a case in a half. I had a lot
Speaker 2: of opinions on that one. Sorry for that.
Speaker 1: You did actually have a lot of opinions. And sorry,
Speaker 1: I feel like I fumbled a little bit, But I
Speaker 1: have some pain in my neck that I'm dealing with
Speaker 1: and it's distract I had a mole removed today and
Speaker 1: it's actually hurting. I should have taken smibie profen.
Speaker 2: You should have so you have you have, you have
Speaker 2: good courage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Help.
Speaker 1: Then at one point I just stop them and like
Speaker 1: just take take a second, and I just.
Speaker 2: Like touk giants chugged half the cam.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting when you have like a little distraction,
Speaker 1: how it can distract you even more.
Speaker 2: Yeahh no, I get that. Like out of the corner
Speaker 2: of my eye, I just see a little little.
Speaker 1: Husky, little honeybee, little.
Speaker 2: Honey curled up, sleeping away.
Speaker 1: She's so sweet. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: She's fitting to her family.
Speaker 1: Great. Oh yeah, it's ridiculous. How well she's fitting in here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you are part of our Patreon or anything
Speaker 2: like that or social media, think you put it on
Speaker 2: Instagram a couple of times even.
Speaker 1: Once I think, yeah, we've only put one post a
Speaker 1: lot that was something actually in the giveaway. A lot
Speaker 1: of people want to see more and hear more with
Speaker 1: the dogs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you might have seen them snuggling. But
Speaker 2: people also we also asked our patrons what sort of
Speaker 2: stuff they want to see over on Patreon little more.
Speaker 2: They really want to see like vlogs, so behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: like video more of that. So those are gonna be
Speaker 2: coming down the pipe here pretty quick. I think I
Speaker 2: need to get in a coal to be ready in
Speaker 2: front of the camera.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, two things. First of all, today you have
Speaker 1: some freaking facial reactions that were unbelievable, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: people would probably have loved to see those. But also
Speaker 1: a lot of times when we're podcasting, like I look
Speaker 1: like a piece of shit. Well, so then I have
Speaker 1: to like look nice, well and presentable all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm talking vlogs right now. Oh, we don't have the
Speaker 2: cameras set up positions for like actual filming podcasts just yet.
Speaker 2: Hopefully in a few months to come. Maybe that's in
Speaker 2: the near future at least, we don't know. But for now,
Speaker 2: we can definitely do vlogs for sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well.
Speaker 2: Logs and live streams maybe that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Will we be doing a vlog when we go to Tafino, Oh,
Speaker 1: because I think we've already mentioned this, but we're we're
Speaker 1: bringing both puppers with us, which is going to be
Speaker 1: a shit show and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be fun.
Speaker 1: Because it's literally about a thirteen or fourteen hour drive
Speaker 1: for us to get there. Yep, with two young huskies.
Speaker 2: We are stopping overnight on the way there and back.
Speaker 1: We are ye not being total assholes to them.
Speaker 2: But we got to stop by Taco Fino. We gotta
Speaker 2: put another sticker on the truck. Oh yeah, if you
Speaker 2: guys are ever into Fino and you stop by the
Speaker 2: food truck Taco Fino, it's covered in stickers. There's currently.
Speaker 2: Nicole was there last summer and put a sticker of
Speaker 2: Jacko on.
Speaker 1: The side when I had put a sticker on at
Speaker 1: the brewery there too on the door.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should uh maybe put the Do we put Gothic?
Speaker 2: Gothic and grim one?
Speaker 1: Do we have stickers right now?
Speaker 2: We got a few, I think kicking around.
Speaker 1: If not, we better get some order here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. Eh, Holy shat, holy shiat indeed.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, anyway, thanks so much for listening to this
Speaker 1: rigging roller coaster. It wasn't quite as bad as the Donnelly's.
Speaker 2: You know, you didn't say orgasms.
Speaker 1: It's a badism, so shit. Yeah, I should have threw
Speaker 1: that in there next.
Speaker 2: Time, next time. On wicked and grim. Nicole's is orgathering
Speaker 2: every five seconds. Oh wow, that would be a case
Speaker 2: and a half. Wow. But yeah, so we appreciate you
Speaker 2: guys being here. You guys literally make this an absolutely
Speaker 2: incredible experience for us. I know, every podcast episode, I'm
Speaker 2: always thanking you saying how awesome you are.
Speaker 1: But we really actually mean it.
Speaker 2: We do. It's not a scripted segment. We just we
Speaker 2: say it because we mean it, and I always say
Speaker 2: it because Nicole has always had a loss for words
Speaker 2: and she just looks to me to say it because
Speaker 2: I'm better with it. Again, I don't know, you just
Speaker 2: kind of have Hey, you said you give us a
Speaker 2: wrap up this time.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, the wrap ups are hard because you legitimately
Speaker 1: do them every time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just say it. So you just said
Speaker 2: I just do it, So you can just do it.
Speaker 2: Go go for it. I believe in you.
Speaker 1: Well, now i'd be like I'm being passive, but honestly,
Speaker 1: pressure we literally do appreciate every one of you, whether
Speaker 1: you're like a patron or a listener, we just appreciate you.
Speaker 1: And you can find us on the website. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what our website is. Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, The
Speaker 1: Wicked What are we? The Wicked Life, The Wicked Life.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're doing great, keep going.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I don't even know how you in this.
Speaker 1: So anyway, if you want to learn more about us,
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, Instagram, you can gmail us.
Speaker 2: We do you want me to just do it? You
Speaker 2: can email us. All right, I got it, I got it.
Speaker 2: You did great. Next time maybe next time, Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you guys here, guys are absolutely incredible. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much for being here. If you want to
Speaker 2: check out any of our social media link down below.
Speaker 2: We have Instagram, Facebook, website, YouTube, you name it. You
Speaker 2: can of course gmail us, send us an email. You
Speaker 2: can give us a rating on Spotify, you can give
Speaker 2: us a rating on Apple. Podcast that goes a long way.
Speaker 2: We seeeriously appreciate it. And like we already talked about
Speaker 2: at the beginning of this episode, there will be another
Speaker 2: exclusive episode being dropped on Patreon this very day, and
Speaker 2: there's a whole library over there you can check out
Speaker 2: exactly a lot of behind the scenes. You can go
Speaker 2: check out there, or you can just stay here just
Speaker 2: keep listening to episodes like this and next one too,
Speaker 2: because we appreciate you all just the same, no matter
Speaker 2: how you support us, it means the world. So thank you, good.
Speaker 1: God, good work. See that's the problem. It's like your job.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, here is a prop. This is like
Speaker 1: your job.
Speaker 2: It's my job.
Speaker 1: Like, you're just good at this shit.
Speaker 2: I'm just talking, just saying things.
Speaker 1: Anyway. Ben's awesome, You're awesome. We're all awesome and until
Speaker 1: next time. No, you're all wicked, wickedly awesome. Until next time,
Speaker 1: stay wicked.