Speaker 1: Year old career gives you lemons. Throwing some ice mix
in some vodka is colored a podcast from the Mac
of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler,
Dodg Jem Brahm. It's Bilified the Bill Moran Podcast. Well,
hello and welcome. Thank you for getting your pot on.
Thanks for telling a friend, and that's how we spread
the word. It's nice to finally catch up with somebody
who we've always been a big fan of. H He
was the police information am I saying this is right,
the police information director, public information public information director scene
got it wrong for the Monroe County Shriff's Department, which
is a huge undertaking. I can only imagine the stuff
that comes in. And then he went on he got promoted.
These deputy been real County Deputy sheriff, Deputy Hurly. And
I can't wait to see what what other things you
conquer as you go through your career, coming up on
twenty years already.
Speaker 2: I just hit it last week.
Speaker 1: Oh really, do they do anything like you remember like
years ago, if you were at Kodak for so many years,
you got like maybe a camera. I don't even know
what they did. Maybe the digital camera that they made
but didn't didn't sell. You used to get like a watch.
You would hear these guys, Hey, thirty years in the job,
you got away. Do they do anything like that? They should?
Speaker 2: My dad got the was it the twenty five year
ring for being at Kodak kind of and then they
were they said, thanks for everything, but we.
Speaker 1: Don't need you anymore. Oh no, yeah, terrible.
Speaker 2: Uh no, we get nothing. We get a pension.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's that's good. Right. Yeah. I mean I
did thirty something years in radio. I don't think everybody
gave shit. That's what happens. It's what happens. One of
the things that is going on in the news today
and it just has been playing in my mind and
I was thought, boy, I got to ask Deputy Hurley
about this, because you know, we see all the stuff
with Savannah Guthrie and her mom and the stuff that
was coming out early were the number of people that
insert themselves into a tragedy for whatever reason. And they
are writing letters, some of them insane, some of them
making ransom demands and little jokes and this and that.
But they're actual, I think, physical letters that I don't
know where they're going, but came out in some article.
I think it was The Times, and I thought that
can't be. We can all say, oh, it's somebody favorite
and I goes, you know what, I don't think it
fucking matters, because how many times do we see like,
you know, elder been on the lookout for eighty one
year old man went for a drive. We haven't seen
him since Sunday, it's Tuesday. Here's his license plate, here's
the car. And sometimes you'll see that, even on electronic
Science something to that effect. And I go, how many
false leads do you get? Like like like you know
their fault, you can tell this, but why what the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. It's hard to explain an
unrational act, but especially something like this with Savannah Guthrie.
I mean, she's famous, so this is gonna hit.
Speaker 1: It's gonna hit bigger right all.
Speaker 2: Over social media everything, and that just brings the crazy out. Yeah,
people just are attracted to it like a moth to
the flame for some reason, and they just you know,
we see it too, Like you said, even with the
missing people, you'll get people who call just to waste time.
And I don't know if they think it's funny or
what they're doing. But yeah, you know, you just got
to weed through those and try to get to the good,
credible ones.
Speaker 1: To that end, I'll ask you this twenty years on
the job, interacting with the public, and this is gonna
sound sort of maybe odd, but mental health overall? Are
we do you see more less the same? Is there
anything in you that goes We got a growing problem
that's sort of the underbelly of a lot of the
stuff that we see.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would say it's a growing problem. Okay,
it's a big problem, though, Yeah, it is very large problem.
Speaker 1: Always the same though, That's what I mean over the
twenty years. And I say that because twenty years ago
social media wasn't as impactful and everywhere as it was now.
Facebook may have existed, but I think it was for
college kids, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, I always look at it
as social media has given everybody a voice, and with
the algorithms and everything, now it feels like people just
go down these rabbit holes of you hear what you
want to hear, you're reading what you want to read,
and aha, I was right all along. So you find
these packs of people who encourage each other instead of
someone going wait, that doesn't make sense, that's crazy. You
shouldn't think that way. It just feeds it so that way,
I think it's more out of control.
Speaker 1: For sure. Well, it's funny you say that because I
said yes yesterday. I feel like now when you're criticizing
and I'll call it team, and we could say, like,
I'm a fan of the New England Patriots. They got
blown out in the Super Bowl. There were announcers saying
they look like they shouldn't be on the same field
as the Seahawks. Right, we can look at that and go, well,
and I'm going no, no, no, no. Take that same concept and
apply it to politics. Take that same concept and apply
it to an argument in the home. It becomes this
thing where once you start criticizing my team, you're criticizing me,
and then it becomes like this loaded thing. And I
really do think that that is a byproduct of social
media for exactly what you're saying. I can find my
tribe who thinks like me, likes me. I can block
these other people. It gives me power and all of
a sudden, now I don't know what we are. It's
like what happened to conversation and trying to understand and
be a little bit open minded and mature. And I
will say that's part of being an old guy, like
you just start to see things the humanity versus the individual.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Both of my grandparents one was Republican, one was Democrat,
and they could have a conversation. They disagree on things,
but they also knew when to stop. Yeah, the family
came first, that we could have a nice dinner. It
wasn't about politics. But you're right, everything now, everything.
Speaker 1: Is so.
Speaker 2: Polarized. Yeah, and everything's political. Ye, Like I watch you
watch sports to escape the world, to escape on that.
You watch a comedy show, you watch a movie to
get away from all that. But they're forcing it into everything,
and I think that's definitely not helping people's.
Speaker 1: No, And I think sometimes you're right because sometimes what
they're going to try to do is give you the
character that represents somebody in your life. And if we
look back, I mean you go to All in the family, right,
we could really laugh at All in the family. And
he had sort of this buffoon and Archie Bunker, who
was this sort of what would be considered today someone
on the right, or maybe even a little further on
the right, and a bigot and a racist and blah
blah blah. But you could laugh at that and see
the absurdity of it, which some people were really offended by.
They go, we're not dumb, Like these people who think
this way are not dumb, is what they're saying. But
it was an exaggerated example of somebody. And I think
they try to do that in sitcoms. But you're right,
it's it's it's everywhere to the point where you can't
escape it. You turn on your computer, it's there, you
open something here, everything's a talk show now right, we
go to podcasts, podcasts are niche, and you've got You've
got all these different things. And I do I don't.
I don't think it's good for mental health. I worry
about like my kid. It's it's almost like an addiction
constantly to be on the phone, and I'm so busy
and it's he and I most of the time that
I'm I feel like I'm failing him in a way
by not taking the phone away, you know, but try
taking away from a sixty to two hundred pound fifteen
year old. It's got an attitude.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know it's addictive. Yeah, we're all addicted
to dope.
Speaker 1: Mean man.
Speaker 2: The other problem is, you know people are using that
as a source to learn.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: When we were grown up, you had to go through
the encyclopedia, you had to look things up and you
know reference books. Now it's like, well, you know Joe
seven thirty two nine says on Twitter, Yeah, yeah, I
saw ten second video, So this is I'm an expert.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's like I always just teach kids when I would
do drivers out, especially new drivers. It's like, you could
be the greatest driver in the world. Right, it's other
people that you also have to worry about.
Speaker 1: Hundred person do everything right.
Speaker 2: You can be a defensive driver and that person comes
into your lane. But help yourself out. Don't be on
the cell phone, don't be texting, and right, we're all
guilty of it. Again. You talk about the muscle memory
and the reps. How many times have you gotten somewhere
and all of a sudden it comes you come to
and you're like, how did I get here?
Speaker 1: It's a hypnotic I mean yeah, it's truly a hypnotical state.
It is truly a hypnotic state, because you're right, and
not even saying like God forbid anybody ever says this,
but like whoa, I get homeless. That's a different one.
But when you're on you're honestly you're thinking, you've got
stuff in your head, and it does put you almost
in a hypnotic state, and it is sort of scary
because many of us have done it. But even there,
I think you're something would snap you out of it
if something started to go wrong, But would you be
fast enough well right? And I think that we don't
do enough, especially here in safe driving courses for this
kind of weather. Ice is the great equalizer. There's no favorite,
A nice but I thought it was the BMW Club
of Rochester used to take you out to I think
it was mcc or one of the big parking lots,
and they basically built a paddock kind of more or less,
and they would flood it and they'd have you come
flying in and either lock up the brakes or pull
up the e brak. And it showed you kind of
the physics because what might seem instinct actual as the
back end goes this way, you know you want to
go the opposite way to straighten the car out, but
maybe you go. And how much our bodies lean, like
our whole body. And that's why I always try to
say to like my kids and stuff. When you're driving,
it's sort of like boxing. You gotta sort of keep
your elbows in and just move your elbows because that's
going to pull the weight. Don't shift your whole body,
you know it's that. Or if something's flying at you,
don't duck. There's a windshield there, all right, But we don't.
We're thinking of these instinctual things. And I did one
of those courses many many many years ago, and I
still think it was one of the best things I
ever did. And I'm coming home after New Year's and
I happen to hit just a snow squaw coming through
Victor and I'm coming down Turk Hill and the big
part of Turk Hill in Parenton, and I start to
lose control of the car and there's cars coming up
the other way, and I had I was on the
phone but through blue and stuff, and I'm and my
mother's on the phone and I go, don't talk, but
don't hang up. I might I might need something. And
at the end she goes, I wish I wish you had.
I wish I had taped this phone call. I said, yeah,
it would been great because my father used to call
it self help. I just kept saying fuck over and
over and over and fuck fuck and you know, but
you knew to turn the car certain way as it
fishtailed out and I was able to get control of it.
But it was like pure ice, and you know, taking
your foot off the brake instead of even on a
hill and trying to you know, navigate that or or
I don't know, it's again reps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to experience it, and that's where you
know you'll see I remember as a kid, we would
do it. You'd find an abandoned parking lot somewhere that
had some space, and you wouldn't go too fast, but
you would purposely drive a little erratic to just feel
what it's like to slide or okay, I'm starting to slide,
how do I correct that? And just getting those reps. Yeah,
you know that being said, make sure you do it
somewhere safe and have permission. But we would, we would
do that, and you just get the feel for the
car and how it's going to do. Because front wheel drive,
rear reel drive, four wheel drive. They're all different, you know,
and again none of them are perfect. The amount of
people in big trucks with four wheel drives off the
road on the expressways all the time. Like I got
four wheel drive, it's not a four wheel slick.
Speaker 1: I got you you're a cowboy and yeah, you know,
hey man, I got four wheel drive. I'll see people.
I know how much has the you're in uniform with
the Monroe County Sheriff the but the body cam? How
has that changed things? And I would say almost for
the better, because again we're gonna go on somebody's memory.
The officer was mean to me, gruff to me, whatever,
or this other person said, and you can go back
and go I was standing right there, and here's a transcript,
here's the body camera footage.
Speaker 2: And you know, again it's it's perceived, you know, the
deputy said something, or they took it one way. But
the beauty of the body cam is just that you
can you can watch it back and see, Okay, well
that's not what they said, or you know, maybe I
can see where you could take it that way, but
that that's not what happened. And I would say that
they're great, Uh, you know, for our recollection as well
of a sorts or or for me now as being
a supervisor. You know, someone calls and complaints or or
the deputies have to use force on somebody to an
effect or arrest. I can now I've watched that to
make sure number one, that they're doing what they're supposed
to do and that they did it the correct way right,
and then you know, you can review all that and
then when people call in exactly like you said, oh,
you know the deputy said this, or the deputy said that.
A lot of times you're like, okay, well come on in,
we'll watch the body cam. Click they hang right out, oh,
because you know they know they're reliant. But no, it's
it's been fantastic. It's yeah, we haven't had anything I
would say to hide for the twenty years I've been here.
And it just goes to show people that, well, if.
Speaker 1: People understood one thing about this job, what would you
want it to be. If there's a misconception you'd like
to have a race m I guess, or even a
truth you wish the public kind of understood better.
Speaker 2: That we're here to help, right, we're a part of
this community. We're not. We're not people from outside who
you know, are here to bully people or do any
of that. We're citizens who live in this community, where
your neighbors, where your friends were, your family were people, right,
you know. I think it would be also that we
don't make the law, we enforce it. We don't always
agree with all the laws. But job. Yeah, so if
you don't like the law, write your congress people. They're
the ones that can change that, not us, you know,
and we're approachable. I think that's a that's a big
misconception too, is that you know, we're we're just out
looking to arrest people and you know, take them to
jail or write them a bunch of tickets. And that's
not true. There's it's safety. We're here for people's safety.
Speaker 1: R H. Well landing on this one, like, uh, what
is one thing that you learned about people in this
job that surprised you? I guess would be the the
thing that I'd want to know surprised you that you
were like, you know, was there anything in terms of
like just the collection of humanity that most people because
I think most things are coming from one space, especially
in the situation you see and I would say that's fear.
If you get to the bottom of it. It's anger
described disguised as fear. It's fear for sure. In it.
Speaker 2: You know, the job is the job, and we covered
how people call when they're it and fear or they're
having their worst day. A few years ago, for me,
I became a community engagement deputy where it was more
I don't say officer friendly, but it was more of
an educational role and going out and not dealing with
people on their worst day. And that that was eye
opening because you're dealing with people who want you to
come and speak to their group or you know, interact
with them. And it was good to see because life,
again is perception, and if all you see all the
time is the bad, right, you start to get jaded
and think that the whole world is bad and it's not.
And you know, remembering that even though that's that person's
worst day, they're not necessarily a bad person. So I
guess that's they're seeing this the scale spectrum of different things.
Speaker 1: Reserving judgment yep, yeah, I mean we often hear like,
don't judge it, and I go, I'm an idiot. I
guess because I'll say, well, I'm not so sure about that.
And here's why. It's an instinct, right. Sometimes if I
see something and I go the opposite direction, that's a judgment,
and there's a reason why. And I'm not sure that
judging is necessarily wrong judging to exclude judging, for I
get it right, Not that treating somebody who haven't even
talked to as though they're not human okay, shitty. But
I think judging in a situation is there. And I think,
you know, hearing you, I think as a police officer,
I'll reserve that a little bit to you fully hear
the person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's definitely something that I've learned over the years.
You know, whether again it's anything on social media now,
you know, I'll show my wife. I'm like, oh my gosh,
look at this. I'm like, well, it's on social media,
so take it with a grain of salt. But there
could be way more to it than you know. And
that's just how my brain works, because that's what I'm
trained to do. I have to get all the answers
before and people do it all the time. They're like,
oh my gosh, what do you think about this? And
I'm like, I don't know. I don't have enough information,
especially cop things, like there's cop videos out there and
they're like, what do you think about this? What do
you think about the shooting in Minnesota'm like, I don't know. Yeah,
I just know what I saw. It didn't look good.
But I won't comment because I don't have all the information.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I often say I don't I'm not educated enough
to comment on that. I do say that because I'm not.
And you know, that's a vodal situation that is so
sad and very tragic in all ways. And you know, again,
look at it from the perspective that you want. You'll
find your tribe. Absolutely they'll support your opinion, and let's
do that. But in the end, you know, people are
not here anymore. And yet at the same time I
have said this and I will I know, I keep saying, well,
I ended on this. I would say to somebody, I'm
not sure that anybody in those situations would have done
anything different. And I know that people will go, well,
how can you say that, I go, I've never been
in a situation where my job is to de escalate
something and somebody in a scrum screams gun, gun, gun,
to a you know, alert, and it happens to me
and the guy's waistband allegedly or whatever, and it's not
out and being displayed. But I don't know what that's like,
and I don't know what that means. And I know
I'm sorry that it even came to that point. I gotcha.
But the fact is, in those moments, I believe the
one commonality is fear on both sides, absolutely right. And
so you know, a car's coming at me, we can
see from all angles. Maybe it wasn't. That person in
the car was scared and trying to leave and didn't
even take their partner with them, So we have fear there.
And then the other person has a history of something
happening to them before or with an automobile in a
situation similar, pulls the trigger right right, and and I go,
would you do anything differently? I don't know.
Speaker 2: And that's that's what's hard, because.
Speaker 1: I think people get angry when I say things like that,
because I'm you're defending. I don't know that I'm defending.
I'm just saying, let's can we try to slip back
from the emotion just a little bit. Let's take that
beat and look at it and try to say, tragic situation.
I wish it never happened. I wish we never got
to this point. We're here now. You know. I often
say things like I'm living the life, not the life
I planned, but it's the life I'm in. So what
am I gonna do?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And it's uh, it's tragic, worst day for everybody around.
And you hit it on the head.
Speaker 1: The fear.
Speaker 2: There's there's fear. You know, you're you're responding to a
school shooting. Fuck, and that that's the worst possible Semaria. God,
you know you're thinking of all the things that could
happen and what's going on. You gotta save those kids.
But then in the back your mind too, you're thinking,
oh my god, what's the media going to say? And
if if I do X and Y, how's that going
to be portrayed? Even if I'm trying to do the
right thing, there it's gonna go. And that all gets
into your head.
Speaker 1: You know what drives me most of those situations, This
is the man all the parents that show up, And
that's part of it.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, having a plan for no like all the.
Speaker 1: Parents that show up. And I understand and I will
tell you many many, many years ago. Now a drug
deal gombad people out of New York City came up
and they grabbed a father and a daughter and they
were the wrong people, so they picked them up in Greece,
dropped them off in the city. Now police are called.
There's a chase, the sheriff's departments involved, and these guys
are flying to get out of town and back to
the Thruway and they're in a chase, and they pull
off at the exit that I live off of, and
they come screaming up the street I live on. I mean,
they're flying. And now it's like officers are everywhere. Right,
guys ditch a car and there's an elementary school and
the gym teacher had The schools aren't air conditioned here
for most of them, aren't. I think some are trying
to do that now because it seems to be getting
a little warmer in May. The offices usually are yes,
and yes they are, or even if it's just a
window on, but you're right. So the guy has the
door propped open because the gym gets hot, and their
little kids and they're hot and sweaty and smelly, and
a guy walks in and says hey, and the gym
teacher immediately says to the guy, how can I help you? Right?
And he could see that the guys, I'm not going
to say, in an agitated state, but he's in an
elevated state. He's being chased, right, he's amped up. Yeah.
Guy walks and says, all right. He goes, can you
call me a cap. I'm looking for a cap. I
need to get. I need out of my car, broke
down whatever, the guy says. So they bring them up. Well,
now the swat team and everybody's there and they don't
know what's going on, Like no one knows what the
person who has now walked into the school was involved
in a high speed chase. There were three guys in
the car. They don't know where the other two are.
And the SWAT team shows up and it's in a
more affluent area of our town, is Pittsford, And so
they climb up. They're in trees, they've got the guns
that are all pointed. They don't know what's coming understood.
The neighborhood is buzzing and we're seeing all the officers around.
And I had built a sunroom that faced the street
that the high speed chase is on. I'm just sitting
there and I'm watching, and I'm here, what's going on?
What's going on? So I call somebody I know who
works in television news. They give me what they know,
and all of a sudden, I'm hearing some chatter and
a bunch of the moms are going to walk up
to the school and I go, don't do that. And
I'm told why not? And I go, because you're a
cholesterol I go. You know what cholesterol does. It gets
in the way, it blocks stuff. I go. These guys
are trained. I go, yeah, but I don't want to, like,
I go, make it a bit, okay, we want to
make it less on the kids. Let's not make it
a big deal. You know what I mean. Well, I
got it. But to have this, oh my god, I'm
so happy, Johnny. It like only elevates the kid a
little bit. In a situation where they didn't know. My
middle son, who's now twenty four, was in second grade
and the teacher I saw her because I went and
got pizza. And we're having kind of a block party
after that, which was great for me. I got to
drink when the neighbors and that was fine, but everybody
was very high and I ran into her and she
said to me, oh my god. I looked out and
I see, you know, assault rifles basically pointed at the doors,
and she said, So I got the kids on the ground,
I turn off the lights, I lowered the shades, and
I read to them. And then she started crying. And
so I'm giving the second grade teacher a hug and
all this stuff. And I was like, that's a great
way to handle it. But all the parents that get
up there, what are you gonna do? What are you
gonna do? Nothing?
Speaker 2: What is that what I'm saying? I mean, you're gonna
take away reasons even if you.
Speaker 1: Say to me, I have a gun. Okay, have you
been in this situation like this? How when was the
last time you went to the rains? Because I guarantee,
and I know it sounds kind of shitty. And at
the time I was married, and it became kind of
a bon of contention that I had this opinion. But
I do. I go, they're the ones there. I My
job is afterwards we can talk about it, try to
what's the term process it? I got that, but in
the moment, I'm not the guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's definitely hard, right. I see both sides.
I see the stress. I see the you know, need
to take care of and you know, protect your child.
But I also see the operation side of it, where
now you're cholesterol.
Speaker 1: That they're cholesterol, you get away.
Speaker 2: You're going to take away resources from what we're doing
to tell missus.
Speaker 1: Jones, shut your mouth right, they can't hear us inside.
Now we're trying to talk this guy down.
Speaker 2: And you know, I'll give you a perfect example is
one of the worst case scenarios is an off duty officer.
Because I'm a cop, I trained, I know how to
do this. I got my gun, my kids in there,
I mean, my Bahama shorts and my tank top. And
here's the thing that people don't think about is we
don't know all the time what's going on. So we see,
we're high stressed, we're trying to figure all this out,
and then there's a person with a gun in somewhere
where we know there's a person with a gun trying
to hurt people. That's just setting the tone for bad
Okay's movie.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: So just you know you can come there. That's where
we've gotten a lot better at having you know, uh,
staging areataging areas and I don't even connect people. Yeah,
you know. And then you could say, there, we'll get
you as much information as we can while we can
and all that, but it's it's keeping people out of
trying to get into this and and adding to it, right,
you're adding either more victims or more hostages like that
doesn't help anybody, No.
Speaker 1: And it's like you're you literally are. I have no
other way to say, you're cholesterol. That's just let's not
be cholesterol.
Speaker 2: And that's where I always tell people. Our job is
we are the colm yes and the crazy in the hectic.
It's our job to be the calm and the rational.
It's hard sometimes, but that's our job. And my job
is also help you be a little more calm, and
I do that by staying calm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, you don't mirror me. What a good way
to add that. Yeah, that was a good very nice
Deputy Hurly, thank you for your time. I appreciate it.
I love conversations like this because it's not just about
the police and crimes but more about humanity. And I
think there's some value in what you've said. For anybody
who's a parent or just walking through the world right
give them a little something.
Speaker 2: Thanks you, so it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, nice to see you again. I'm Bill Moran.
We'll see you tomorrow. See if they were looking bora
Cana night with Tanna, see me