Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: The Madness of March continues tonight with more Sweet sixteen action.
Speaker 2: After four really good games last night, We're live today
Speaker 2: at Tim Dolly Infinity at forty five ninety four South
Speaker 2: Stage Street. We are giving away tickets to see Kevin Hart,
Speaker 2: who's coming to Salt Lake on.
Speaker 3: April the eighteenth.
Speaker 2: All you have to do is coming out like our
Speaker 2: guy Joe just did, and fill out a little inter
Speaker 2: to win form and put it in the inter to
Speaker 2: win box, and we're gonna draw a name prior to
Speaker 2: us getting out of here at about six o'clock Mountain
Speaker 2: time at forty five ninety four South Stage Street.
Speaker 3: Our first guest on a Friday afternoon, our.
Speaker 2: Guy Howard Beck from the Ringer Howard, Happy Friday, Sir.
Speaker 3: How are you all right? Spence?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good man, I'm good.
Speaker 2: So the NBA is wild this year because once upon
Speaker 2: a time it was like, hey, if you're an elite
Speaker 2: generational player, you won't get traded, and if you're a
Speaker 2: really good coach, you're probably not gonna get fired. Taylor
Speaker 2: Jenkins fired today after nearly six seasons with Memphis. Howard
Speaker 2: this week says one of those like we'll find out
Speaker 2: out more later on, But what's your reaction to the news,
Speaker 2: and if you have any information as to why they
Speaker 2: made this decision.
Speaker 3: I'm all ears man.
Speaker 1: Well, when Luca got traded, I said many times in
Speaker 1: the days and weeks that followed, there's gotten me more.
Speaker 1: We'll find out eventually, and we still don't know anymore.
Speaker 1: So we're just in very strange times in the NBA.
Speaker 1: But I like you, and trust me, you and I
Speaker 1: are not the only ones thinking this way. Anybody I've
Speaker 1: texted with this afternoon around the league, everybody was shocked
Speaker 1: to various degrees, and everybody kind of felt like there's
Speaker 1: something else here. It can't be just basketball, because you
Speaker 1: don't fire the coach of a playoff bound team with
Speaker 1: nine games left in the regular season. Like if you
Speaker 1: didn't like where things were going with him, where you
Speaker 1: had a philosophical disagreement or whatever, you either fire him
Speaker 1: a month or two ago or a month or two
Speaker 1: from now. You don't do it nine before the playoffs.
Speaker 1: And so where's the urgency or the necessity of doing
Speaker 1: it on March twenty eighth, Like this just doesn't make
Speaker 1: a lick of sense. And there's not much precedent for it,
Speaker 1: certainly in recent decades. I'm on a thread with some
Speaker 1: people where they were trying to find other examples of
Speaker 1: playoff bound teams firing their coach this late in the season,
Speaker 1: and you've got to go back decades. So it's very strange.
Speaker 1: It is. I would say, I don't mean to be
Speaker 1: overly provocative here, but it is kind of suspicious. And
Speaker 1: among the other things that I immediately heard from people,
Speaker 1: you know again texting folks around the league, was he's
Speaker 1: going to get snapped up in a heartbeat this summer,
Speaker 1: you know wherever. I don't know where the next openings
Speaker 1: are going to be, but anybody looking for a coach
Speaker 1: this summer, Taylor Jenkins is going to be the top
Speaker 1: of their list because he's that good and he's got
Speaker 1: that great of a rep. So I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. And if I had a knee intel, I
Speaker 1: would try to share it now, but I am in
Speaker 1: the dark as well.
Speaker 2: Toomas I. Sallo is the interim coach. He was the
Speaker 2: lead assistant for coach Jenkins. Taylor Jenkins in Memphis. I
Speaker 2: don't know much about him other than what I've read
Speaker 2: any inside as to who this guy is who's now
Speaker 2: leading the Memphis program.
Speaker 3: Nope, right, yeah, I mean this is this.
Speaker 1: Is not somebody who like was at the on the
Speaker 1: tip of everybody's tongue or in the NBA circles. I
Speaker 1: don't think. I'm sure in coaching circles, like hardcore coaching circles,
Speaker 1: there's a familiarity. But no, I was not aware of him.
Speaker 2: So I mean kind of reading around a little bit
Speaker 2: and digging into what Memphis has done as of late,
Speaker 2: because I you know, everybody likes to watch Memphis. They've
Speaker 2: got one of the most exciting players in the league
Speaker 2: when he's you know, not suspended or not heard in
Speaker 2: John Moran. They're zero to nine and their last nine
Speaker 2: against winning teams. The defense is kind of taken a
Speaker 2: couple of steps backwards. I don't know, man, I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to make sense of this, Like, who do you
Speaker 2: think they are in the lands, Like as far as
Speaker 2: their peers and the teams around them. I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody believes they're winning the West this year, but I
Speaker 2: think they had shown enough that they could probably win
Speaker 2: around right, Like, so who are they now?
Speaker 3: With the Western Conference?
Speaker 1: It's a weird year in the West as it is, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the Rockets are going to finish in
Speaker 1: the top two or three, and they're really young, and
Speaker 1: they're the team that other teams in the West were
Speaker 1: thinking like, I want to I want them in the
Speaker 1: first round, and then it was I want Memphis in
Speaker 1: the first round. The Grizzlies are certainly struggling of late,
Speaker 1: there's no question, but you know, per usual, they've had
Speaker 1: injury issues, and per usual, John Morant has been primary
Speaker 1: among them. They also change up their offense this year,
Speaker 1: and it kind of de emphasized jaw to an extent.
Speaker 1: It became more kind of like it was a better,
Speaker 1: more dynamic offense overall, in the sense of it being
Speaker 1: less predictable and less just pick and roll dependent. But
Speaker 1: you know, one possibility here is that maybe maybe players
Speaker 1: and maybe front office word all the way that thrilled
Speaker 1: with the changes to the offense. You know, Jared Jackson
Speaker 1: junior is having a breakout season, and they once again
Speaker 1: are having some really nice, uh you know, unexpected contributions
Speaker 1: from you know, uh, you know, guys like Jalen Wells,
Speaker 1: a rookie who has been you know, kind of in
Speaker 1: the fringes of the Rookie of the Year race and
Speaker 1: Scotty Pippen Jr. Has been around for years, but it's
Speaker 1: popped with them specifically, like they've done a really good
Speaker 1: job of building a roster and a program, and I
Speaker 1: just this, this is such a weird signal to send
Speaker 1: up at this stage of the season.
Speaker 2: All Right, Howard, I hate that we're about to do this,
Speaker 2: but we're about to do it, don't I don't, I know, man,
Speaker 2: But I've just here's here's what I'm going to say.
Speaker 3: Okay, I've had more than a few people over the years.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm basically twenty years doing this job in
Speaker 2: this market, and because we are an NBA market, and
Speaker 2: because my background is what it is, I cover the NBA,
Speaker 2: not just the Jazz. I covered the league. And I
Speaker 2: love the game. I've talked about this before. I think
Speaker 2: when the best athletes and players in the world care
Speaker 2: about their craft and show up and play hard, basketball
Speaker 2: is a beautiful thing to watch. But I've had more
Speaker 2: than a few over the years compare it to WWE
Speaker 2: and say that its scripted and talk about conspiracies and
Speaker 2: Patrick Ewing and frozen envelope and all the things right,
Speaker 2: and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, not on or off air,
Speaker 2: not basketball or politics, because well, you know, let's not
Speaker 2: go there today.
Speaker 3: However, when Lebron James goes on.
Speaker 2: An ESPN talk show, namely the Pad McAfee Show to
Speaker 2: crack on an ESPN personality, and then five minutes after
Speaker 2: the ESPN personality is cracked on, he releases his YouTube
Speaker 2: video responding, and then he goes on his show and
Speaker 2: then takes a bunch of cheap shots and does get
Speaker 2: personal while trying to say he's not getting personal. And
Speaker 2: then there's this media personality chiming in and that it
Speaker 2: feels like it WWE And there's nothing that I can
Speaker 2: say to combat the people that claim that this is
Speaker 2: now a total bleep show that is centered upon the
Speaker 2: worldwide leader that is one of the NBA's major media partners.
Speaker 2: And I don't know what to say about it. Man,
Speaker 2: Like you've been doing this a long long time. I
Speaker 2: don't want to do it either.
Speaker 3: But here we are.
Speaker 2: What do you make of this this clown show where
Speaker 2: we find ourselves in with Lebron and all of the
Speaker 2: subplots and characters surrounding.
Speaker 1: Him, oh boy. I'm gonna keep this brief. I will
Speaker 1: just say one one. I don't quite buy the WWE
Speaker 1: aspect of it. I mean, there's a theatrical element to
Speaker 1: this that I understand why that might feel analogous to people,
Speaker 1: But that is a scripted sport. The NBA is not scripted,
Speaker 1: So I don't even want to go there because it
Speaker 1: conflates things, and then people think that any of this,
Speaker 1: this outside drama somehow reflects on the product itself, and
Speaker 1: these are these are separate things, and they're completely in
Speaker 1: the hands of the people who are doing it. This
Speaker 1: is not Adam Silver trust me is not you know,
Speaker 1: suggesting or backing any of this. ESPN is not smart
Speaker 1: enough to create this on their own. This is a
Speaker 1: bunch of people. This This is a not a bunch
Speaker 1: of people. This is two people. This is really just
Speaker 1: two people. And why it's gone this far this long
Speaker 1: is beyond me. Unfortunately, there's an entire ecosystem around it
Speaker 1: of other media outlets and other networks who are all
Speaker 1: feeding off of it and dissecting it. And I'm not
Speaker 1: going to contribute to it.
Speaker 3: I don't care.
Speaker 2: I don't either, but I will ask you why do
Speaker 2: you think Lebron Like Lebron James doesn't have to say
Speaker 2: anything to anybody about anything. He's ever accomplished, and he
Speaker 2: is this generation's that guy. I don't really get into
Speaker 2: the whole like who's the greatest of all time? But whatever,
Speaker 2: and his resume is.
Speaker 3: Is unapproachable, it's unassailable.
Speaker 2: He was put on a magazine cover at the age
Speaker 2: of seventeen and we all said to him, you're next,
Speaker 2: and he was Why does he wade into.
Speaker 3: The crap with all these bad actors? That's my question
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I would just say
Speaker 1: that my good friend Bill Orm, who spent some time
Speaker 1: in your market, wrote a great piece for the He
Speaker 1: wrote a great column for The Oregonian that people should
Speaker 1: go check out porter book.
Speaker 3: Bill Orm on the show next week. Will you good?
Speaker 3: Thanks pal?
Speaker 2: All right, moving on, moving on, how about we talk
Speaker 2: Tanka Palooza twenty twenty five because that's where we find ourselves.
Speaker 2: I know you don't watch college basketball. I know you
Speaker 2: don't fill out a bracket, but let me ask you,
Speaker 2: based off of people you talk about, as to whether
Speaker 2: or not Cooper Flagg is going to be worth it?
Speaker 2: For fan bases like hours here in Salt Lake that
Speaker 2: simply continue to suffer.
Speaker 1: I mean, by all accounts, he will be worth it,
Speaker 1: but I do think that there's some disagreement or just
Speaker 1: some I don't know, caution from some from some folks
Speaker 1: about the kind of player he'll be. Right like, I
Speaker 1: think as you know, and I've watched some of him. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I have been pretty glib about the fact that I
Speaker 1: don't really watch college basketball, but I have a sense
Speaker 1: of what Cooper Flag is about, and from folks I
Speaker 1: talk to, it seems to me that he's going to
Speaker 1: be an incredibly valuable player who can do a lot
Speaker 1: of different things for your team. I don't know if
Speaker 1: he is going to be like your prototypical like you know,
Speaker 1: Perennial MVP, top ten, top fifteen type player, Perennial all MBA,
Speaker 1: you know, scoring leader type, or or you know, is
Speaker 1: he going to put up you know, twenty five twenty
Speaker 1: five point triple doubles all the time? I don't know
Speaker 1: if you want to go that far. There's a lot
Speaker 1: that he can do for a team in terms of
Speaker 1: both scoring and playmaking. And you know, he's got size,
Speaker 1: and he's got length. I don't know if he's absolutely
Speaker 1: positively a guy that you're building a playoff team around,
Speaker 1: Like is he a franchise savior type by himself or
Speaker 1: is he merely you know, a guy who's best is
Speaker 1: like you're, you know, a one bee type, right, which
Speaker 1: is not terrible by the way, Like I have referred
Speaker 1: constantly to, for instance, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis, who
Speaker 1: are now playing together as basically better as one bees. Right.
Speaker 1: Both of them want championships with Lebron, but they can't
Speaker 1: really carry team on their own. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if Cooper Flag is going to be in that top
Speaker 1: top tier or the one B tier or the secondary tier.
Speaker 1: We never do know, by the way. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a few guys who have come into the league where
Speaker 1: everybody was certain from day one that they were going
Speaker 1: to be absolutely just franchise changing talents, and most years
Speaker 1: we think somebody is, and then you know there's something
Speaker 1: a little bit less. So I don't know. Scouts can't
Speaker 1: see the future, neither can I.
Speaker 2: So I've been asking our guests this week the following question,
Speaker 2: and I want to be clear, I'm not leading the witness,
Speaker 2: but I am going to make you, Howard Beck, either
Speaker 2: Cooper Flag's father or his agents, somebody that is in
Speaker 2: his ear, And I'm going to ask you and prevent
Speaker 2: and present the following options. The New Orleans Pelicans, the
Speaker 2: Utah Jazz, the Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. Now,
Speaker 2: there are at least eight teams trying to lose intentionally
Speaker 2: right now, and maybe ten, but those are the four
Speaker 2: that have the best chance of landing the number one
Speaker 2: overall pick. If you were Cooper Flag's agent, if you
Speaker 2: were Cooper Flag's father, who are you hoping to see
Speaker 2: once that envelope has opened up in May? Charlotte, Washington,
Speaker 2: New Orleans or Utah?
Speaker 1: Oh? Interesting, Definitely not Charlotte. Definitely not Charlotte. They're just
Speaker 1: that franchise has just had such a terrible run in
Speaker 1: recent and it's through different ownership groups and different front offices.
Speaker 1: But I just don't trust the Hornets and their trajectory.
Speaker 1: New Orleans is interesting because they've had a lot of talent,
Speaker 1: and I think they've actually done a really good job
Speaker 1: overall of putting together rosters, and they just can't stay healthy.
Speaker 1: But I do think of those four teams New Orleans
Speaker 1: would be the most attractive by purely the fact that
Speaker 1: that they are stacked, They've got veterans, they've got and
Speaker 1: you know, Dian has actually been pretty good this season.
Speaker 1: Would I would like my son to go to a
Speaker 1: team where he doesn't have to be the savior on
Speaker 1: day one. I would like him to go somewhere that's
Speaker 1: ready to win, where he can, you know, get his
Speaker 1: sea legs in the NBA, figure out how to be
Speaker 1: a pro and and not have it all on him
Speaker 1: from day one. And the problem with Utah and Washington
Speaker 1: is that they're both so far from competing now washing
Speaker 1: that has I guess in both situations. They both have
Speaker 1: assembled some decent veteran talent and they have not spun
Speaker 1: off everything. So there's some basis there. But the Pelicans
Speaker 1: should have been a playoff team this year if not
Speaker 1: for injuries, and so of those four, I think that's
Speaker 1: the place you can go and succeed the soonest with
Speaker 1: the least pressure on your shoulders. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: It does?
Speaker 2: And you know, my case for the Jazz is simply
Speaker 2: the development history of the front office. And I do
Speaker 2: think Will it's a really bright young coach Now, after
Speaker 2: the Jazz got trounced by Memphis the other night, Will
Speaker 2: lost it on his players. He lost it in the
Speaker 2: postgame press conference, and I am curious as to because
Speaker 2: well as two years left on his deal. They were
Speaker 2: both options, and the Jazz picked both of them up.
Speaker 2: And I don't know the interesting storyline, and I guess
Speaker 2: I'll say narrative, although I hate that term. Now it's
Speaker 2: kind of taking place out here, and I think I've
Speaker 2: talked to you about this. The Jazz are now propagating
Speaker 2: a message through some media outlets that they are not
Speaker 2: rebuilding yet because they've been tearing down for three.
Speaker 3: Years, to which I roll my eyes mightily.
Speaker 2: Okay, And so ultimately you land on Cooper Flag if
Speaker 2: you're if you're Cooper Flag, and if you're his reps,
Speaker 2: do you want him surrounded by Lowry Marketing is a
Speaker 2: really good player, Walker Kestler is a very young big
Speaker 2: or uh you know. The other direction the Jazz claimed
Speaker 2: to be considering is Okay, now we have our cornerstone,
Speaker 2: Now we have our center piece, and the rebuild starts
Speaker 2: right now, and they just get rid of everybody, including
Speaker 2: market and including Kestler, and they start their quote unquote
Speaker 2: rebuild after their quote unquote teardown for three years.
Speaker 3: If they land Cooper Flag coming up in.
Speaker 1: The draft, it would be interesting because they really could
Speaker 1: go either direction. They could say Cooper Flag's a missing
Speaker 1: piece and we want marketing and Kessler here because we
Speaker 1: we you know, we've got veterans who again, like same
Speaker 1: case I was making for New Orleans, I think I
Speaker 1: would say this in almost every single case. I don't
Speaker 1: care how high the ceiling is on the superstar, the
Speaker 1: projected superstar you're getting in the draft. Every single one
Speaker 1: of them, and I would even put you know, back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three included in this and he
Speaker 1: didn't make the playoffs this first year, every single one
Speaker 1: of them is better off coming to a team that
Speaker 1: has other guys who can do some things at a
Speaker 1: high level, you know, not necessarily superstars themselves, but you
Speaker 1: don't want to join a naked roster and have to
Speaker 1: go through all the pain of you know, losing, and
Speaker 1: of having it all on your shoulders and you're taking
Speaker 1: all the hits. So my guess is, you know, and
Speaker 1: I haven't talked anybody about this, but I my thought
Speaker 1: would be if the Jazz got Cooper Flag. It's not
Speaker 1: suddenly let's blow up the rest of the roster. They've
Speaker 1: got all these picks still that they can deal, They've
Speaker 1: got all these other ways that they can start adding immediately.
Speaker 1: And I would guess if you've got a player of
Speaker 1: his caliber, that's what you do. You started building up
Speaker 1: around him. You're not. I don't think you're tearing down further.
Speaker 1: I think if they don't get him, and if they
Speaker 1: don't like the draft physician they ended up in, and
Speaker 1: if the guy that they got is not somebody who's
Speaker 1: going to change their trajectory, that would be an argument
Speaker 1: to further tear down, as opposed to turning the corner
Speaker 1: trying to build, and as we've discussed before, unless you're
Speaker 1: about to be in a position where you can hit
Speaker 1: the gas and start winning again, I don't see why
Speaker 1: you're holding on a marketing anymore.
Speaker 3: I agree, Howard. I didn't mean to make you grumpy.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you go so you can go grab
Speaker 2: a flat white in Brooklyn, chill out, take some grass,
Speaker 2: and go find some more intelligent conversation on a Friday.
Speaker 3: Will you.
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure to Spence. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: All right, the great Howard Beck from The Ringer brought
Speaker 2: to you today by IFA Country Stores. With IFA's crabgrass
Speaker 2: Preventer plus lawn food, you'll stop those pesky weeds before
Speaker 2: they even start.
Speaker 3: It's the ultimate lawn owner power move.
Speaker 2: Check out one of the eighteen Utah stores or online
Speaker 2: at IFA dot co op