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<v Speaker 1>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>The Madness of March continues tonight with more Sweet sixteen action.

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<v Speaker 2>After four really good games last night, We're live today

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<v Speaker 2>at Tim Dolly Infinity at forty five ninety four South

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<v Speaker 2>Stage Street. We are giving away tickets to see Kevin Hart,

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<v Speaker 2>who's coming to Salt Lake on.

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<v Speaker 3>April the eighteenth.

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<v Speaker 2>All you have to do is coming out like our

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<v Speaker 2>guy Joe just did, and fill out a little inter

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<v Speaker 2>to win form and put it in the inter to

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<v Speaker 2>win box, and we're gonna draw a name prior to

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<v Speaker 2>us getting out of here at about six o'clock Mountain

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<v Speaker 2>time at forty five ninety four South Stage Street.

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<v Speaker 3>Our first guest on a Friday afternoon, our.

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<v Speaker 2>Guy Howard Beck from the Ringer Howard, Happy Friday, Sir.

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<v Speaker 3>How are you all right? Spence?

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<v Speaker 2>How are you?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm good man, I'm good.

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<v Speaker 2>So the NBA is wild this year because once upon

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<v Speaker 2>a time it was like, hey, if you're an elite

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<v Speaker 2>generational player, you won't get traded, and if you're a

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<v Speaker 2>really good coach, you're probably not gonna get fired. Taylor

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<v Speaker 2>Jenkins fired today after nearly six seasons with Memphis. Howard

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<v Speaker 2>this week says one of those like we'll find out

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<v Speaker 2>out more later on, But what's your reaction to the news,

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<v Speaker 2>and if you have any information as to why they

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<v Speaker 2>made this decision.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm all ears man.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, when Luca got traded, I said many times in

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<v Speaker 1>the days and weeks that followed, there's gotten me more.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll find out eventually, and we still don't know anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're just in very strange times in the NBA.

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<v Speaker 1>But I like you, and trust me, you and I

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<v Speaker 1>are not the only ones thinking this way. Anybody I've

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<v Speaker 1>texted with this afternoon around the league, everybody was shocked

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<v Speaker 1>to various degrees, and everybody kind of felt like there's

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<v Speaker 1>something else here. It can't be just basketball, because you

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<v Speaker 1>don't fire the coach of a playoff bound team with

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<v Speaker 1>nine games left in the regular season. Like if you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't like where things were going with him, where you

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<v Speaker 1>had a philosophical disagreement or whatever, you either fire him

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<v Speaker 1>a month or two ago or a month or two

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<v Speaker 1>from now. You don't do it nine before the playoffs.

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<v Speaker 1>And so where's the urgency or the necessity of doing

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<v Speaker 1>it on March twenty eighth, Like this just doesn't make

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<v Speaker 1>a lick of sense. And there's not much precedent for it,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly in recent decades. I'm on a thread with some

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<v Speaker 1>people where they were trying to find other examples of

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<v Speaker 1>playoff bound teams firing their coach this late in the season,

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<v Speaker 1>and you've got to go back decades. So it's very strange.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. I would say, I don't mean to be

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<v Speaker 1>overly provocative here, but it is kind of suspicious. And

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<v Speaker 1>among the other things that I immediately heard from people,

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<v Speaker 1>you know again texting folks around the league, was he's

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<v Speaker 1>going to get snapped up in a heartbeat this summer,

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<v Speaker 1>you know wherever. I don't know where the next openings

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be, but anybody looking for a coach

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<v Speaker 1>this summer, Taylor Jenkins is going to be the top

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<v Speaker 1>of their list because he's that good and he's got

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<v Speaker 1>that great of a rep. So I don't know what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on. And if I had a knee intel, I

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<v Speaker 1>would try to share it now, but I am in

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<v Speaker 1>the dark as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Toomas I. Sallo is the interim coach. He was the

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<v Speaker 2>lead assistant for coach Jenkins. Taylor Jenkins in Memphis. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know much about him other than what I've read

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<v Speaker 2>any inside as to who this guy is who's now

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<v Speaker 2>leading the Memphis program.

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<v Speaker 3>Nope, right, yeah, I mean this is this.

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<v Speaker 1>Is not somebody who like was at the on the

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<v Speaker 1>tip of everybody's tongue or in the NBA circles. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think. I'm sure in coaching circles, like hardcore coaching circles,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a familiarity. But no, I was not aware of him.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean kind of reading around a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>and digging into what Memphis has done as of late,

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<v Speaker 2>because I you know, everybody likes to watch Memphis. They've

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<v Speaker 2>got one of the most exciting players in the league

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<v Speaker 2>when he's you know, not suspended or not heard in

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<v Speaker 2>John Moran. They're zero to nine and their last nine

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<v Speaker 2>against winning teams. The defense is kind of taken a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of steps backwards. I don't know, man, I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to make sense of this, Like, who do you

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<v Speaker 2>think they are in the lands, Like as far as

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<v Speaker 2>their peers and the teams around them. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>anybody believes they're winning the West this year, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think they had shown enough that they could probably win

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<v Speaker 2>around right, Like, so who are they now?

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<v Speaker 3>With the Western Conference?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a weird year in the West as it is, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, the Rockets are going to finish in

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<v Speaker 1>the top two or three, and they're really young, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're the team that other teams in the West were

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<v Speaker 1>thinking like, I want to I want them in the

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<v Speaker 1>first round, and then it was I want Memphis in

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<v Speaker 1>the first round. The Grizzlies are certainly struggling of late,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no question, but you know, per usual, they've had

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<v Speaker 1>injury issues, and per usual, John Morant has been primary

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<v Speaker 1>among them. They also change up their offense this year,

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<v Speaker 1>and it kind of de emphasized jaw to an extent.

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<v Speaker 1>It became more kind of like it was a better,

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<v Speaker 1>more dynamic offense overall, in the sense of it being

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<v Speaker 1>less predictable and less just pick and roll dependent. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, one possibility here is that maybe maybe players

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe front office word all the way that thrilled

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<v Speaker 1>with the changes to the offense. You know, Jared Jackson

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<v Speaker 1>junior is having a breakout season, and they once again

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<v Speaker 1>are having some really nice, uh you know, unexpected contributions

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<v Speaker 1>from you know, uh, you know, guys like Jalen Wells,

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<v Speaker 1>a rookie who has been you know, kind of in

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<v Speaker 1>the fringes of the Rookie of the Year race and

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<v Speaker 1>Scotty Pippen Jr. Has been around for years, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>popped with them specifically, like they've done a really good

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<v Speaker 1>job of building a roster and a program, and I

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<v Speaker 1>just this, this is such a weird signal to send

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<v Speaker 1>up at this stage of the season.

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<v Speaker 2>All Right, Howard, I hate that we're about to do this,

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<v Speaker 2>but we're about to do it, don't I don't, I know, man,

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<v Speaker 2>But I've just here's here's what I'm going to say.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I've had more than a few people over the years.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm basically twenty years doing this job in

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<v Speaker 2>this market, and because we are an NBA market, and

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<v Speaker 2>because my background is what it is, I cover the NBA,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the Jazz. I covered the league. And I

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<v Speaker 2>love the game. I've talked about this before. I think

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<v Speaker 2>when the best athletes and players in the world care

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<v Speaker 2>about their craft and show up and play hard, basketball

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<v Speaker 2>is a beautiful thing to watch. But I've had more

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<v Speaker 2>than a few over the years compare it to WWE

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<v Speaker 2>and say that its scripted and talk about conspiracies and

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<v Speaker 2>Patrick Ewing and frozen envelope and all the things right,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, not on or off air,

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<v Speaker 2>not basketball or politics, because well, you know, let's not

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<v Speaker 2>go there today.

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<v Speaker 3>However, when Lebron James goes on.

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<v Speaker 2>An ESPN talk show, namely the Pad McAfee Show to

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<v Speaker 2>crack on an ESPN personality, and then five minutes after

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<v Speaker 2>the ESPN personality is cracked on, he releases his YouTube

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<v Speaker 2>video responding, and then he goes on his show and

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<v Speaker 2>then takes a bunch of cheap shots and does get

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<v Speaker 2>personal while trying to say he's not getting personal. And

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<v Speaker 2>then there's this media personality chiming in and that it

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<v Speaker 2>feels like it WWE And there's nothing that I can

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<v Speaker 2>say to combat the people that claim that this is

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<v Speaker 2>now a total bleep show that is centered upon the

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<v Speaker 2>worldwide leader that is one of the NBA's major media partners.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know what to say about it. Man,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you've been doing this a long long time. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to do it either.

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<v Speaker 3>But here we are.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you make of this this clown show where

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<v Speaker 2>we find ourselves in with Lebron and all of the

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<v Speaker 2>subplots and characters surrounding.

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<v Speaker 1>Him, oh boy. I'm gonna keep this brief. I will

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<v Speaker 1>just say one one. I don't quite buy the WWE

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<v Speaker 1>aspect of it. I mean, there's a theatrical element to

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<v Speaker 1>this that I understand why that might feel analogous to people,

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<v Speaker 1>But that is a scripted sport. The NBA is not scripted,

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't even want to go there because it

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<v Speaker 1>conflates things, and then people think that any of this,

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<v Speaker 1>this outside drama somehow reflects on the product itself, and

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<v Speaker 1>these are these are separate things, and they're completely in

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<v Speaker 1>the hands of the people who are doing it. This

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<v Speaker 1>is not Adam Silver trust me is not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>suggesting or backing any of this. ESPN is not smart

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<v Speaker 1>enough to create this on their own. This is a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of people. This This is a not a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of people. This is two people. This is really just

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<v Speaker 1>two people. And why it's gone this far this long

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<v Speaker 1>is beyond me. Unfortunately, there's an entire ecosystem around it

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<v Speaker 1>of other media outlets and other networks who are all

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<v Speaker 1>feeding off of it and dissecting it. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>going to contribute to it.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't care.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't either, but I will ask you why do

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<v Speaker 2>you think Lebron Like Lebron James doesn't have to say

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<v Speaker 2>anything to anybody about anything. He's ever accomplished, and he

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<v Speaker 2>is this generation's that guy. I don't really get into

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<v Speaker 2>the whole like who's the greatest of all time? But whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>and his resume is.

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<v Speaker 3>Is unapproachable, it's unassailable.

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<v Speaker 2>He was put on a magazine cover at the age

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<v Speaker 2>of seventeen and we all said to him, you're next,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was Why does he wade into.

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<v Speaker 3>The crap with all these bad actors? That's my question

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<v Speaker 3>to you.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know. I would just say

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<v Speaker 1>that my good friend Bill Orm, who spent some time

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<v Speaker 1>in your market, wrote a great piece for the He

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<v Speaker 1>wrote a great column for The Oregonian that people should

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<v Speaker 1>go check out porter book.

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<v Speaker 3>Bill Orm on the show next week. Will you good?

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks pal?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, moving on, moving on, how about we talk

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<v Speaker 2>Tanka Palooza twenty twenty five because that's where we find ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you don't watch college basketball. I know you

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<v Speaker 2>don't fill out a bracket, but let me ask you,

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<v Speaker 2>based off of people you talk about, as to whether

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<v Speaker 2>or not Cooper Flagg is going to be worth it?

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<v Speaker 2>For fan bases like hours here in Salt Lake that

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<v Speaker 2>simply continue to suffer.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, by all accounts, he will be worth it,

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<v Speaker 1>but I do think that there's some disagreement or just

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<v Speaker 1>some I don't know, caution from some from some folks

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<v Speaker 1>about the kind of player he'll be. Right like, I

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<v Speaker 1>think as you know, and I've watched some of him. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>I have been pretty glib about the fact that I

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<v Speaker 1>don't really watch college basketball, but I have a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of what Cooper Flag is about, and from folks I

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<v Speaker 1>talk to, it seems to me that he's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be an incredibly valuable player who can do a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of different things for your team. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>he is going to be like your prototypical like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Perennial MVP, top ten, top fifteen type player, Perennial all MBA,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, scoring leader type, or or you know, is

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<v Speaker 1>he going to put up you know, twenty five twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five point triple doubles all the time? I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to go that far. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>that he can do for a team in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>both scoring and playmaking. And you know, he's got size,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's got length. I don't know if he's absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>positively a guy that you're building a playoff team around,

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<v Speaker 1>Like is he a franchise savior type by himself or

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<v Speaker 1>is he merely you know, a guy who's best is

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<v Speaker 1>like you're, you know, a one bee type, right, which

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<v Speaker 1>is not terrible by the way, Like I have referred

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<v Speaker 1>constantly to, for instance, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis, who

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<v Speaker 1>are now playing together as basically better as one bees. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Both of them want championships with Lebron, but they can't

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<v Speaker 1>really carry team on their own. So I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if Cooper Flag is going to be in that top

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<v Speaker 1>top tier or the one B tier or the secondary tier.

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<v Speaker 1>We never do know, by the way. You know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a few guys who have come into the league where

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<v Speaker 1>everybody was certain from day one that they were going

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<v Speaker 1>to be absolutely just franchise changing talents, and most years

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<v Speaker 1>we think somebody is, and then you know there's something

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit less. So I don't know. Scouts can't

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<v Speaker 1>see the future, neither can I.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've been asking our guests this week the following question,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to be clear, I'm not leading the witness,

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<v Speaker 2>but I am going to make you, Howard Beck, either

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<v Speaker 2>Cooper Flag's father or his agents, somebody that is in

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<v Speaker 2>his ear, And I'm going to ask you and prevent

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<v Speaker 2>and present the following options. The New Orleans Pelicans, the

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<v Speaker 2>Utah Jazz, the Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>there are at least eight teams trying to lose intentionally

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<v Speaker 2>right now, and maybe ten, but those are the four

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<v Speaker 2>that have the best chance of landing the number one

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<v Speaker 2>overall pick. If you were Cooper Flag's agent, if you

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<v Speaker 2>were Cooper Flag's father, who are you hoping to see

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<v Speaker 2>once that envelope has opened up in May? Charlotte, Washington,

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<v Speaker 2>New Orleans or Utah?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Interesting, Definitely not Charlotte. Definitely not Charlotte. They're just

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<v Speaker 1>that franchise has just had such a terrible run in

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<v Speaker 1>recent and it's through different ownership groups and different front offices.

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<v Speaker 1>But I just don't trust the Hornets and their trajectory.

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<v Speaker 1>New Orleans is interesting because they've had a lot of talent,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think they've actually done a really good job

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<v Speaker 1>overall of putting together rosters, and they just can't stay healthy.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do think of those four teams New Orleans

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<v Speaker 1>would be the most attractive by purely the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>that they are stacked, They've got veterans, they've got and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Dian has actually been pretty good this season.

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<v Speaker 1>Would I would like my son to go to a

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<v Speaker 1>team where he doesn't have to be the savior on

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<v Speaker 1>day one. I would like him to go somewhere that's

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<v Speaker 1>ready to win, where he can, you know, get his

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<v Speaker 1>sea legs in the NBA, figure out how to be

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<v Speaker 1>a pro and and not have it all on him

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<v Speaker 1>from day one. And the problem with Utah and Washington

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<v Speaker 1>is that they're both so far from competing now washing

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<v Speaker 1>that has I guess in both situations. They both have

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<v Speaker 1>assembled some decent veteran talent and they have not spun

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<v Speaker 1>off everything. So there's some basis there. But the Pelicans

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<v Speaker 1>should have been a playoff team this year if not

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<v Speaker 1>for injuries, and so of those four, I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the place you can go and succeed the soonest with

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<v Speaker 1>the least pressure on your shoulders. Does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 3>It does?

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, my case for the Jazz is simply

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<v Speaker 2>the development history of the front office. And I do

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<v Speaker 2>think Will it's a really bright young coach Now, after

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<v Speaker 2>the Jazz got trounced by Memphis the other night, Will

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<v Speaker 2>lost it on his players. He lost it in the

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<v Speaker 2>postgame press conference, and I am curious as to because

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<v Speaker 2>well as two years left on his deal. They were

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<v Speaker 2>both options, and the Jazz picked both of them up.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know the interesting storyline, and I guess

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<v Speaker 2>I'll say narrative, although I hate that term. Now it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of taking place out here, and I think I've

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<v Speaker 2>talked to you about this. The Jazz are now propagating

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<v Speaker 2>a message through some media outlets that they are not

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<v Speaker 2>rebuilding yet because they've been tearing down for three.

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<v Speaker 3>Years, to which I roll my eyes mightily.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, And so ultimately you land on Cooper Flag if

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<v Speaker 2>you're if you're Cooper Flag, and if you're his reps,

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<v Speaker 2>do you want him surrounded by Lowry Marketing is a

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<v Speaker 2>really good player, Walker Kestler is a very young big

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<v Speaker 2>or uh you know. The other direction the Jazz claimed

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<v Speaker 2>to be considering is Okay, now we have our cornerstone,

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<v Speaker 2>Now we have our center piece, and the rebuild starts

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<v Speaker 2>right now, and they just get rid of everybody, including

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<v Speaker 2>market and including Kestler, and they start their quote unquote

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<v Speaker 2>rebuild after their quote unquote teardown for three years.

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<v Speaker 3>If they land Cooper Flag coming up in.

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<v Speaker 1>The draft, it would be interesting because they really could

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<v Speaker 1>go either direction. They could say Cooper Flag's a missing

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<v Speaker 1>piece and we want marketing and Kessler here because we

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<v Speaker 1>we you know, we've got veterans who again, like same

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<v Speaker 1>case I was making for New Orleans, I think I

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<v Speaker 1>would say this in almost every single case. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>care how high the ceiling is on the superstar, the

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<v Speaker 1>projected superstar you're getting in the draft. Every single one

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<v Speaker 1>of them, and I would even put you know, back

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and three included in this and he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't make the playoffs this first year, every single one

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<v Speaker 1>of them is better off coming to a team that

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<v Speaker 1>has other guys who can do some things at a

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<v Speaker 1>high level, you know, not necessarily superstars themselves, but you

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to join a naked roster and have to

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<v Speaker 1>go through all the pain of you know, losing, and

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<v Speaker 1>of having it all on your shoulders and you're taking

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<v Speaker 1>all the hits. So my guess is, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't talked anybody about this, but I my thought

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<v Speaker 1>would be if the Jazz got Cooper Flag. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly let's blow up the rest of the roster. They've

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<v Speaker 1>got all these picks still that they can deal, They've

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<v Speaker 1>got all these other ways that they can start adding immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>And I would guess if you've got a player of

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<v Speaker 1>his caliber, that's what you do. You started building up

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<v Speaker 1>around him. You're not. I don't think you're tearing down further.

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<v Speaker 1>I think if they don't get him, and if they

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<v Speaker 1>don't like the draft physician they ended up in, and

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<v Speaker 1>if the guy that they got is not somebody who's

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<v Speaker 1>going to change their trajectory, that would be an argument

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<v Speaker 1>to further tear down, as opposed to turning the corner

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<v Speaker 1>trying to build, and as we've discussed before, unless you're

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<v Speaker 1>about to be in a position where you can hit

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<v Speaker 1>the gas and start winning again, I don't see why

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<v Speaker 1>you're holding on a marketing anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>I agree, Howard. I didn't mean to make you grumpy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna let you go so you can go grab

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<v Speaker 2>a flat white in Brooklyn, chill out, take some grass,

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<v Speaker 2>and go find some more intelligent conversation on a Friday.

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<v Speaker 3>Will you.

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<v Speaker 1>Always a pleasure to Spence. We'll talk to you next week.

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<v Speaker 3>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, the great Howard Beck from The Ringer brought

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