WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:04.280 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:10.160 My goodness, Frank, Being Frank fright, where the only way 3 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:16.480 to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. 4 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:20.039 We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, 5 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.280 Frank Oborn, and I'd like to thank you for joining 6 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.679 us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, 7 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.000 where no conversation is out of bounds and all the 8 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:34.439 points of you are welcome. Listeners are familiar to our routine. 9 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.520 We record live to tape, and I give you the 10 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.320 dates so you have some context and relevance. It is 11 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:44.759 the fifth of October. Like many of you, I listened 12 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:48.240 with great interest to the recent addresses by Secretary of 13 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:52.479 War Pete Hegseth and President Donald Trump to an unprecedented 14 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:57.320 gathering of our military's leaders. The Secretary has summoned all 15 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.679 of them from all over the world. Now going into 16 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.359 great detail here, let me just say that I was 17 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.599 shocked at what I heard. As a civilian, I was 18 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:11.400 appalled by the tone of the message. Among many disturbing statements, 19 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:15.480 the suggestion of using US cities and American citizens as 20 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.359 training grounds for our combat troops may have been the 21 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:22.599 most appalling, But as I mentioned, I'm a civilian, I'm 22 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.280 not a veteran, and I wondered what not only active 23 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.519 duty members in the audience thought, but what other veterans 24 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:31.159 might be thinking as well. So I turned to one 25 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:33.879 that I had enormous respect for. Our guest grew up 26 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:36.359 in Pagoda, New Jersey, and listed in the Navy right 27 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:39.159 after high school, and also started a family at a 28 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.719 very young age. He served his time honorably in the Navy, 29 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.719 but found he missed the service, so he enlisted in 30 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.680 the National Guard, but that made the longing even worse. 31 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.599 He went back full time by enlisting in the US Army. 32 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.000 During that time, he was deployed to Iraq and served 33 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.239 on a convoy team called the Outcast Express in the 34 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.599 Sunny Tried Angle during the worst, most violent time of 35 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.159 the war. He was severely injured in an ied blast 36 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.439 on Easter two thousand and five. It didn't end his 37 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:13.039 tour of duty, but led to back and neck surgery later. 38 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.319 He currently manages as a community wellness center with emphasis 39 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.120 on mental health and addiction recovery. He has also worked 40 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.719 as a supervisor of bills for the New Jersey Senate. 41 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:26.840 He had the first of nine heart attacks in twenty 42 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:32.000 sixteen and was diagnosed with Parkinson's in twenty eighteen. There's 43 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.680 a bunch of kids and step kids ranging in age 44 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.360 from twelve to thirty eight, and two grandkids aged two 45 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:44.000 and five. Please welcome for some intelligent conversation call vonder Hyde. Carl. 46 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.120 Thank you so much for taking the time. Appreciate it. 47 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.199 Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here, Carl. 48 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.520 Let's talk a little bit about Pagoda and growing up there. 49 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:55.919 I'm from Fort Lee to again. Two Jersey boys. We 50 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:57.520 seem to have a lot of them. I have to 51 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:01.360 mention Neil Richter, the mailman, our engineer, is another Jersey boy. 52 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:06.080 So well Jersey all the time here. But talk a 53 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.759 little bit about your experiences there and at how that 54 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.080 kind of colored your future and some of the decisions 55 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:13.960 you made, particularly as a young man. 56 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:21.520 Sure, Pagoda's a real small town in a real big area. 57 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:28.759 It's it's an incredibly densely populated area, and it's basically 58 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:35.360 one giant bedroom community for New York City, and it's 59 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:37.719 you know, when I was growing up there, Pagoda was 60 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.960 very much a working class, you know, meat and potatoes 61 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:50.080 kind of area. I think everybody was more or less 62 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:56.639 living the same. There wasn't a tremendous difference in anybody's 63 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:04.159 experience in that area. I don't think the I was troubled, 64 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:09.879 to say the least. I was kind of a nightmare 65 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:14.520 when I was in school. In high school, I was very, 66 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.560 very very smart and had absolutely no interest in doing 67 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.000 any of the work involved. And I was also a 68 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:27.000 pretty heavy partier, and so I found that I was 69 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.079 in trouble more than I was out of it. I 70 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:35.759 sort of knew that if I had tried to go 71 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:41.279 right into college out of high school, I would probably 72 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:45.040 have rocked out pretty quickly, and it was a really 73 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.160 good chance I would have ended up in a lot 74 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:54.160 more trouble, drugs, alcohol, whatever. So I made the decision 75 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:56.199 that I needed to get out of there. I needed 76 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.759 to get away from several things. So I went right 77 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:08.639 in the Navy after high school graduation, and almost immediately 78 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:13.240 after that I was somebody's dad. So that's that's how 79 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:13.959 that went down. 80 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.120 Yeah, that's you know that. It's in all honest, it's 81 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.160 a lot of responsibility to take on as a nineteen 82 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.240 year old, and maybe that's why nineteen year olds make 83 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:26.319 that decision that you know, to be a father, and 84 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.680 then you had children, and I know that kind of 85 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:33.480 affected your decisions going forward because it's difficult to do both. 86 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:37.160 I mean, that's why I think we we we honor 87 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.680 our service people because so many sacrifices are made, and 88 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:45.279 that includes being away from your family sometimes a prolonged 89 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.319 periods of time, particularly when you serve in the navy, 90 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.199 correct and so talk to a little to that and 91 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:54.360 how that affected your life. 92 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.920 Well. Being in the navy was. Being in the Navy 93 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.959 was incredible because of the amount of experience and travel. 94 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.480 I mean, I saw we were everywhere. I was on 95 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:14.160 a guided missile destroyer Old Adams Class tin Can out 96 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:19.360 of Charleston, South Carolina, and I mean we were all 97 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:26.040 over all over the North Atlantic, Mediterranean, Indian Ocean. During 98 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.800 the very beginning of the First Golf War, we were 99 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:33.759 bouncing around in the Indian Ocean. We were there. You 100 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.480 may remember from the news when the USS Vincennes shot 101 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:43.199 down what the Iraqis claimed was a passenger jet just 102 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.519 at the very very very beginning of the Gulf War. 103 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:49.839 We were there for that. I mean and I worked 104 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:53.680 in radar navigation and tracking. I was an operations specialist, 105 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:59.279 so I was working when that happened. But I got 106 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:03.800 to see just so so so much of the world England, Ireland, Germany, France. 107 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.680 It was incredible to travel the time we spent in Italy. 108 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:13.199 I also discovered ways to get myself in trouble on 109 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:17.439 a global scale. I've been arrested in some of the 110 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:22.879 most beautiful places in the world and this one dopey 111 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:29.759 friend of mine. And but the travel part of it, 112 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.360 which was really one of the things I loved the most, 113 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:36.480 also became very problematic for me because I had a 114 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.759 very young wife and a kid at home, and then 115 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.959 she became pregnant with my second kid, my oldest daughter, 116 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.360 And when my enlistment was up, I made the decision 117 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.680 to get out just because I didn't want to watch 118 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:56.439 my kids grow up on videotape. And I also knew 119 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:58.680 a lot of the guys older than me that had 120 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:03.560 families that were in most of their family at least 121 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.399 the enlistic guys, most of their families were an absolute 122 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.199 train wreck. If they were still together, they all hated 123 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.879 each other, and most of them were already broken families 124 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.240 by the time they were thirty years old or whatever. 125 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:22.399 So I decided to get out, and if one thing 126 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.000 led to another, I ended up back in Ridgefield Park, 127 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.040 and then from there to the Godas I went all 128 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:29.959 the way around the world and then landed right back 129 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:30.800 where I started. 130 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:39.360 Yeah. Yeah, Now, interestingly, though, in your navy career, was 131 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.080 there any something like an eye opener for you that 132 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.799 that really kind of changed that something that kind of 133 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:50.519 a revelation of where you were, what you were, what 134 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.559 you were doing. I don't know if you're following my 135 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:55.120 train of questioning if you could. 136 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:04.759 In the navy. Mostly I was just discovering how amazingly 137 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.919 inexperienced and immature I actually was. That was that was 138 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.559 the real eye opener for me. That, you know, you 139 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:13.720 grow up in a town like Pagoda, which is so 140 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.759 small and so insular, and everybody knows everybody, and you 141 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:19.879 at least know everybody's names, and you know some of 142 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.840 who's in their family and what they're about. I get 143 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:29.440 out into the big world and you discover really shattering truth. 144 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:31.919 I am not special, I am not unique. I am 145 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:37.000 not in any way different from anybody else. I have 146 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:42.080 signed up for a life in which it's all on me. 147 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.679 Mom and dad can't bail me out of this. That 148 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:49.240 relevation hit me in boot camp, like, wow, I'm I'm 149 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:52.159 doing this. This is not I I'm not going home 150 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:55.240 at the end of the day. This, this isn't how 151 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:58.480 this works. So that was that was kind of a jolt. 152 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.360 And the amount of of responsibility, of course, that you 153 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:06.200 assume as a parent is a really big thing, and 154 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:11.320 being that young was a very eye opening experience. You know, 155 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.600 all of those people that were telling me things for 156 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.000 years like you'll understand when you're a father, Well, now 157 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:20.960 I understood. And I also had a very clear idea 158 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:23.080 that I had no clue what the hell I was doing, 159 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:31.200 and I was very much a wash and absolutely absolutely 160 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:34.600 lost when it came to that. And then on top 161 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:39.559 of that, I'm an eighteen nineteen twenty year old kid, 162 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:44.600 and really we're talking about kids, and I've got a 163 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:50.080 NATO's Secret clearance at that age, and I'm handling documents 164 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.039 that you know, we had a bag on my ship 165 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.960 where it was lined with lead, and God forbid anything 166 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.080 happened to the ship, all those documents go in that 167 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:00.840 bag and it goes to the ottom of the ocean, 168 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:06.559 and I'm handling this stuff. I'm on radio nets with 169 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.200 other ships in a fleet. You know, like I mentioned 170 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.679 the data Vincennes shot down that plane. You know, I 171 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.519 was involved in that. And when I think now, you know, 172 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:24.519 I've got kids that are twelve, thirteen, fourteen, twenty. I 173 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:26.919 don't even let them pick what's going to be for dinner. 174 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.120 And yet we'll give a kid at that age this 175 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.840 incredible amount of responsibility. And I would love to sit 176 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:37.840 here and say and I met the challenge, But the 177 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:42.720 reality is I've floundered, and I flailed around. I had 178 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:47.679 no idea what I was doing, and realized exactly how 179 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:49.759 big a bite I had taken out of life at 180 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:53.440 a very early age. The other thing that happened while 181 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.200 I was in I don't know if you're aware of this, 182 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:59.879 but nineteen eighty nine, September of eighty nine, Hurricane Hugo 183 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:04.720 hit Charleston, and my whole neighborhood was because I didn't 184 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:06.759 live on base, because I had a wife and a kid, 185 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.120 my whole neighborhood, including my house, were just gone, like 186 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:14.240 like they had never been there. It was completely wiped out. 187 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:19.320 And so again at this incredibly young age. Yeah, you know, 188 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.759 we're living in a tense city and I'm figuring out, 189 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.519 you know, how am I going to feed this kid? 190 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:26.480 And how much ramen and peanut butter is he going 191 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.039 to eat before he openly rebells? And you know, we're 192 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:34.879 walking around the neighborhoods doing honestly got alligator patrols, and 193 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.919 you know, there there's it was really really crazy. So 194 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:44.279 you know it, I came home with a very clear 195 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:47.120 sense of exactly how much I did not know about 196 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.559 life in the world. That was the big eye opener there. 197 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.759 But obviously, and we read in the introduction there was 198 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.720 something there for you. He went back first and the 199 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.960 Nation Guard and then if you will full t on 200 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:05.080 by enlisting in the army, what isn't what? 201 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:05.320 What? 202 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.480 What was that that pull? What was that attraction that 203 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:09.759 kept bringing me back? 204 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:14.879 Oh, it's it's a lot of things. It's it's a lot, 205 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:16.440 a lot, a lot of things. I mean, if you 206 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:22.440 ask anybody who was prior service that ends up going 207 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.639 into the National Guard, which is a lot of people, 208 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.360 a lot of men and women do that. They'll they'll 209 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.240 get out and then realize how much, they miss it 210 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:37.360 and they'll go into the National Guard. It's it's the camaraderie, 211 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.440 It's the stuff that you're involved in. It's the things 212 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:46.519 you know, the things you can do, the the there's 213 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.159 a tremendous level of structure that a lot of us 214 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:53.000 find I don't want to say we become institutionalized, but 215 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:55.320 a lot of us find that were extremely comfortable in 216 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:00.360 that hyper structured environment. I mean, the whole time in 217 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.840 the military, whether it was the Navy or the Army, 218 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.000 I never had to think about what I was going 219 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.279 to wear today. I didn't have to think about what 220 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:14.919 I was going to have for dinner. I knew exactly 221 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.960 who was going to be ware and when they were 222 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.559 going to be there, and what we were going to 223 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.320 be doing. I knew what the mission was, I knew 224 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.480 what the job was. There wasn't a lot of and 225 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.559 this is a big deal, not a lot of room 226 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.720 for opinion in the military. Everybody just has a job 227 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.240 to do, and that's what you're there to do. We 228 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:35.960 all express our opinion. We will bitch and gripe and 229 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.240 moan and whine and cry and yell and scream. I 230 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.600 actually posted a meme the other day that is very accurate, 231 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.279 which said very It was a picture of a guy 232 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:50.399 running with an M sixteen, and it said a tremendous amount. 233 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.360 A tremendous part of being in the military is saying 234 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.639 f this under your breath and then doing it anyway. 235 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:04.480 That's really really accurate. And so what I found that 236 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:11.799 I was missing was all of that. And there is 237 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:18.320 a level of camaraderie that is far more extreme. It's 238 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.879 not like your college roommate or your frat brother, or 239 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.399 you know, fellow members of the Elks lodge or the Moose, 240 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:31.080 or it's not like that. It's different because you are 241 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.960 with each other twenty four hours a day, seven days 242 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.759 a week, no matter what, in and out, you're all 243 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:42.879 each other's got. The people I went to Iraq with, 244 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.879 I'm still in touch with most of the guys that 245 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.720 were on the Conboy team that I served on. For 246 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:54.919 that reason, you become, in a lot of ways closer 247 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.840 than a lot of families are. You know each other 248 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.000 that there were guys there that this day know me 249 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.159 better than most of my family does, and we haven't 250 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:08.960 seen each other in fifteen years, see twenty years. That 251 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.000 was all the stuff that I missed, and I missed 252 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.960 it tremendously and it took me a while to catch 253 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.039 on too. I had been home for a long time 254 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.840 and I was working, and it should have been obvious, 255 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.360 but I was working. I was a police dispatcher in 256 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.679 Ridgefield Park and then in Pagoda. I was on the 257 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:34.799 Ambulance Court, the heavy rescue squad, the police auxiliary dispatching 258 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:37.639 for the police and nine went one, et cetera. And 259 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.320 somebody finally pointed out to me, you know, everything you're 260 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.320 doing is about being in uniform and. 261 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.600 Kind avoid if I might jump in. It seems like 262 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.159 those are its little measures to try to fill this 263 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:49.919 bigger boy. 264 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.440 Yeah, it really was, And so I went, that's exactly right. 265 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.720 And I went back into the National Guard, thinking weekend 266 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:01.840 a month, two weeks out of the year, I put 267 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.160 on the uniform, I can be part of what's going on, 268 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:06.920 and then I go home. And that actually made it 269 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.759 much worse. I found that I would spend the whole 270 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:14.799 month between duty weekends just looking at the uniform, hanging 271 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.799 up and itching to get back. And so finally, when 272 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.200 the opportunity presented itself to go back full time I did. 273 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:28.880 I went back And it's funny because when I when 274 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.039 I enlisted in the National Guard, I was a I 275 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:38.240 was a tanker Charlie Company who uh second one seconds 276 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.599 and I was a tanker and I loved it, and 277 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:44.920 it was fantastic. When I went back full time, I 278 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.400 had to go into an aviation unit. What the heck 279 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:51.240 do I know about a helicopter, you know, But I 280 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:56.119 did it. And you know, over time, I got various qualifications, this, that, 281 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.279 and the other, ended up running a motor pool. But uh, 282 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:07.000 it was that constant itch to be back in that environment. 283 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.359 And my initial thinking was, Okay, I'll go back, and 284 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.039 even if I did get stationed somewhere at the time, 285 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.359 I got very lucky. I was working out of Picatinny Arsenal, 286 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.640 and I lived in Byron Township. I could fall out 287 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:27.920 of bed and be at work. It was fantastic. I 288 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.039 just always kind of in the back of my head 289 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.039 if I ever get sent anywhere, of course, I can 290 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:36.400 always take the family with, you know. And then, of course, 291 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.960 after nine to eleven, you know, that all went out 292 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.880 the window because we were at war with everybody and 293 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.920 I was never a way more than I was home. 294 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.839 But so you didn't retrospect me not my best decision, 295 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.640 but yeah, it was uh, it was all of that 296 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:03.039 that drew me back in it, all the positives, and 297 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.839 any veteran can tell you that even the negative stuff, 298 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.359 when you start remembering back, it becomes very positive because 299 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:16.200 I don't really think about some of the stupider things 300 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.119 that happened, and lines I waited in for no reason, 301 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.680 and places I went to do absolutely nothing but I 302 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.960 had to hurry up and get there. You don't think 303 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.039 about that as much as you think about the people 304 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:31.319 you were there with and everybody that went through that 305 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:36.279 experience with you. Same thing. As you know, I very 306 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:41.279 rarely talk about any of the wilder stuff that happened 307 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.440 while we were in a rack and then asked your things, 308 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:47.559 and I think all the time about the guys I 309 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.960 was with and the dumb things we did to entertain 310 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:54.319 ourselves and things we did between missions and stuff like that, 311 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:58.279 and that's the stuff that sticks with you, and that's 312 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.960 the stuff you end up really missing. 313 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.519 Cal I want to and I want to talk more 314 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.079 about your Iraqi experiences. In some of our pre interview, 315 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.799 you've mentioned some very interesting things and some of the 316 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.519 issues you faced when you come back, as we said, 317 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.839 filling and finding ways to fill that void. And some 318 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.000 of them are the most healthy as well, as we 319 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.960 well know. But we'll talk about that. But I think 320 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.960 it's important now that we fast forward a little bit 321 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.279 to the speech, if you will. The so called secretary 322 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:31.000 of War was the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, where 323 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:35.440 I think his intention was to capitalize on what you 324 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:39.200 were saying, the camaraderie, that hohorah kind of thing, you know, 325 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:43.400 the bold, pounds your chests, look at my tattooed tight 326 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:48.319 type thing. In my opinion, it seemed to completely backfire 327 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.559 that people were looking at him from their reactions literally 328 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.519 which at times with no reaction, was literally begging for applause. 329 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.640 But I said, I'm a civilian. My jaw dropped in 330 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:06.079 terms of not only what he said is about troops 331 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:09.240 in cities, and with Trump came too later we'll talk 332 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.720 about him in a minute as well too, but the 333 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:16.279 overall tenor the tone of it, you know, looking down 334 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:19.680 and telling these guys stuff they already knew and don't 335 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.920 and it presented in a way that was not honorable. 336 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.440 But again that's my thinking. I'd like to know your 337 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.359 thinking you're a veteran, you've learned the right. 338 00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:34.400 Oh my, the Secretary of Defense, and he is regardless 339 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.799 of what these clowns will say, he's still the Secretary 340 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.319 of Defense. The you can't just change that on your own, 341 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:47.480 not even with an executive order. It doesn't work that 342 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.680 way anymore than you can make an official language or 343 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.039 declare birthright. Says you can't do that with an executive order. 344 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:56.880 It's still he's still the Secretary of Defense. I don't 345 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:01.000 care if he calls himself the Grand Pooba. He's the 346 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:08.119 Secretary of Defense. My first gut reaction. I watched the 347 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:14.200 whole thing, and my initial reaction was, somebody's going to 348 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.319 get up and slap this idiot. I was amazed that 349 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.519 that didn't happen. To be honest with really, these guys 350 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:29.640 are tremendously men and women in that room are unbelievably professional, 351 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.119 and that's the only reason it didn't happen. I'm thoroughly convinced. 352 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:40.200 For a guy who is an absolute failure of a veteran, 353 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.799 clearly dealing with his own demons, dealing with his own 354 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.920 substance abuse issues, dealing with the fact that he crashed 355 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:55.799 and burned whole veteran nonprofits with this nonsensical attitude of his. 356 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.920 For him and a five time draft dodger to get 357 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.839 up on a stage in a room full of people 358 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:09.319 who have given their lives and professional careers and in 359 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:16.799 many cases families to the service of this country was unconscionable. 360 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.519 It was disgusting. It was for these two guys to 361 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:23.960 be telling that group of people what the warrior ethos 362 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:28.759 is is so beyond absurd. It would be laughable if 363 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.720 you could close your dropped jaw long enough to breathe. 364 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:38.119 It was obscene for him to be saying some of 365 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:45.200 the things he did. He's calling career military officers fat, 366 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.559 and he's suggesting that women and people of color in 367 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:56.759 that room were there as dei hires. And he's suggesting 368 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:04.680 that people who don't agree with his chest beating, knuckle 369 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:09.759 dragging neanderthal version of what a man is aren't fit 370 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:13.720 to serve. And that is one of the most idiotic 371 00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:18.400 and absurd things I've ever heard. The fact that he 372 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:26.519 and the President are alienating people based on ethnicity, sexuality, gender, 373 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.240 and race at a time when we have nothing but 374 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:34.599 a voluntary standing military and the fact that he is 375 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.960 ending people's careers based on those things at a time 376 00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:45.400 when we have nothing but a volunteer military. It's mind 377 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:51.480 boggling to me. It staggers the imagination. I think the 378 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:57.039 most eloquent comment on this exercise and stupidity last week 379 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:02.400 was the silence, the the fact that these people did. 380 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:07.720 I saw what would they be allowed to call it procedurally, 381 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:10.599 you know, because they kind of played on that. Would 382 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.480 they be allowed to applaud if they wanted to? Is 383 00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:14.480 that considered in. 384 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.680 This particular event. Yes, absolutely, it would be. 385 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:18.920 It would be considered absolutely appropriate. 386 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.119 Absolutely, and you could you could clearly see that they 387 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.400 both expected that that's what was going on. I think 388 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:28.680 they thought that they were going to be so beloved 389 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.680 that these men would break protocol and burst into spontaneous applause. 390 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:39.039 This is not what happened. You know. They sat there 391 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:44.079 and if anything, you could say they observed absolute rigid protocol. 392 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:49.240 They sat there. 393 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:53.599 Like this, motion and emotionless. Yes, and that was all 394 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.000 they got. 395 00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:59.480 They got no reaction. I saw one female, she was 396 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:04.960 sitting with a group of sergeants. Major. I saw her 397 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:10.200 at one point she was kind of on camera, and 398 00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:15.519 when he said you're allowed to applaud. She kind of 399 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.640 broke ranks, and she's sitting there and she kind of went, 400 00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:25.759 which was actually worse. You know, it was the humiliation 401 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:32.119