WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.120 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcasts. 3 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.800 Ever wondered what happens when a Zoomer who grew up 4 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:09.560 on the Clone. 5 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:11.800 Wars, millennial, Anakin Defender. 6 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:13.880 And a grumpy old gen Xer walking to a canteen 7 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:14.960 and at talk Star Wars. 8 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:16.679 Then we've got the podcast for you. 9 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.399 Star Wars Generations is a place for fans of all 10 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:22.440 backgrounds to come together talk about what we love the franchise 11 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.039 and what we can learn from each other. 12 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:26.839 With so much new Star Wars content coming out, we 13 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:28.960 take a deep dive into all of it. We talk 14 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.359 stories and characters, what we learned about the Force and 15 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:34.759 the Empire, Republics old and new, and how each story 16 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:36.359 adds to the larger picture. 17 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.359 Besides episode by episode coverage of the new shows, we've 18 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:41.159 been going. 19 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:42.759 Back to watch the movies and release order. 20 00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:46.479 We talk about Star Wars novels and video games, along 21 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.079 with fam content and cosplay. 22 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:51.640 And with each episode, we're just starting the conversation and 23 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.399 we hope you jump in. We'll read your feedback, answer 24 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:57.640 your questions. We've had full episodes dedicated to questions and 25 00:00:57.840 --> 00:00:59.119 raised by listeners. 26 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:02.039 Like you find us under Star Wars Generations on your 27 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.719 favorite podcast app or by going to the Ethical Pana 28 00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:05.359 dot com. 29 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:06.519 May the Force be with. 30 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:13.120 You Now, this is podcasting. Hey, there are true believers. 31 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:15.599 Andy Nelson here from the Marvel Movie Minute Podcast with 32 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.239 the rest of the team mate right, Kyle Wilson, Rob Cobosco, 33 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:22.359 and Matthew Fox. This is the podcast where we dissect 34 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:25.680 the Marvel cinematic universe, one minute at a time, exploring 35 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.359 every detail of this epic superhero franchise. 36 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:31.319 In our season, looking at Ironman three, we're gonna mix 37 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:31.920 things up a bit. 38 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:32.640 That's right. 39 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:34.439 Rob and I are your guide, but instead of our 40 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.400 usual minute by minute format, we dive into five minutes 41 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.439 of the film in each weekly episode. 42 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.239 It's a totally new approach, but one that still allows 43 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.280 us to explore all the depth and detail that makes 44 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:49.040 these movies so special, even if Ironman three isn't all 45 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:55.359 that's special. Hold on, that's where you're wrong, extremists. Shane Black, Yeah, 46 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.000 would you like to look at the Mandarin and Maya Hanson? 47 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:02.359 So, whether you're a die hard Marvel fan or just 48 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:06.760 love deep dives into movies, there's something for everyone on 49 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:08.000 Marvel Movie Minute. 50 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.479 Suit up and join us on this epic audio adventure. 51 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.280 You can find us a true story dot FM or 52 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.000 by searching Marvelmovie Minute on your favorite podcatcher. 53 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.400 Because in the Marvel Cinematic universe, every minute is packed 54 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:20.080 with excitement. 55 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:21.400 Enough said. 56 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:38.280 Hello to Welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today 57 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.439 we are talking about hope, Hope that Superman can embody, 58 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:45.680 Hope that this will be an interesting podcast discussion based 59 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.240 on only two minutes of trailer. Hope that this will 60 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:51.639 be a Superman that might actually make Jessica Plumber say 61 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.240 this is something like the character that she fell in 62 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:56.080 love with in comic books and that all the rest 63 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.400 of us should have been waiting for, despite my love 64 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.199 of Christopher Reeves. So, yes, we're talking about the newest 65 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:03.719 Superman trailer. We're gonna spend a lot of time talking 66 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:06.360 about heroes with bad haircuts, but we're mostly gonna be 67 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.120 talking about the character of Superman and what does this 68 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:11.280 new image of Superman that James gunn is possibly can 69 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.319 be giving us, How does it relate to the character 70 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.159 from comics, how does it relate to other versions, and 71 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.039 most importantly, why is this one we care about. It's myself, Matthew, 72 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:22.560 my normal co host, Rieky, and of course Jessica Plummer, 73 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.759 returning guest and comic book fan extraordinary Jessica, how have 74 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:26.240 we been doing. 75 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.159 I've been good. How you been doing pretty well? 76 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:30.719 Pretty well? 77 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:32.960 Been exciting a couple of weeks where we took a 78 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.560 hiatus for a couple of weeks over the holidays. 79 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.680 Glad to be back recording and glad to have you on. Riki. 80 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.240 Let me first start with you. What do you know 81 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.800 about Superman or what's been your relationship with this character 82 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:44.639 just in general? 83 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.400 Yeah, I mean I've been a fan for a long 84 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:52.560 time comic books, movies, TV shows, and I think last 85 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:55.680 time the three of us got together, my kind of 86 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.039 thesis was that Superman is a good TV show character 87 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.800 because allows Clark Kent to really be the focus of 88 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.560 the story, Whereas a Superman movie, with so much focus 89 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.879 on action, you have to center it around Superman, who 90 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:14.080 some people have derided as a boring superhero, right, Like, 91 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.240 you can't make Superman interesting because he's invincible, so you 92 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.519 had to come up with some conceit for why he's 93 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.439 deep powered or why the opponent is more powerful than 94 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:26.560 him at the moment, So I'm curious to see what 95 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:28.120 this movie does. 96 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.560 With Superman in that regard. 97 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.160 Yeah, yeah, I wanst say. That was one that really 98 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:36.240 had me convinced because I think you're right. Part of 99 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.000 I love the Christopher Reeve movies. As a kid, those 100 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.399 were my Superman as I discussed my father sued Superman, 101 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:43.879 which was fun to say on the playground when I 102 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.639 was five or six, But you know, as I grew up, 103 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.079 I definitely was a kid it was like, oh no, 104 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.480 Batman's so much cooler. And I think part of it 105 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:52.800 is you're right, and I haven't really thought of it 106 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:57.879 until we had that conversation that in a traditional superhero 107 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.199 action movie, the main question extreen as always can our 108 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:04.079 hero defeat the villain in single combat and you know, 109 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.040 his legions and his big monster whatever it is, And 110 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:10.160 it was Superman. If that's a character who are kind 111 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.519 of the point is that that's not actually a real question. 112 00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:14.600 Then there's a whole other set of stuff that we 113 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:18.199 don't normally get to explore. And so Jessico take take 114 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.120 away from there, kind of talk a little about how 115 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.720 that idea we're talking about, but also other ideas for you, 116 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:25.160 what what's the essence of Superman that mean? And we 117 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:26.600 haven't seen on the screen very often. 118 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:30.319 Yeah, I mean I would definitely, like one hundred percent 119 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.720 agree with Riep. I think Superman does better on TV, 120 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.800 both because they have a lower budget so they have 121 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.040 to use Clark more because it's easier and cheaper, and 122 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:47.000 because the character is so designed for ongoing storytelling, like 123 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:53.759 that's comics are sequential storytelling. So one hundred percent, Like 124 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.160 I have said, I've said on this podcast that my 125 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.879 preferred genre for Superman is is a workplace rom com, 126 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.120 which is what most of the TV shows have been, 127 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:07.720 And you don't really see that with a movie, and 128 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:11.800 so I do think that, Look, we don't know until 129 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:15.360 we see the movie, but I am choosing, you know, 130 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:17.560 the episode is about hope. This episode is about hope. 131 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.759 I am choosing to hope that the fact that we 132 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.519 have seen like the whole Daily Planet staff except Perry, 133 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.199 I think in the trailer means we're going to get 134 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.360 like lots of Daily Planet scenes. We're going to get 135 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.759 that emphasis on that part of Clark's life, because I 136 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.279 think that's what's one of the major things that's been 137 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:37.800 missing in Superman movies. Up to this point, we haven't 138 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:39.879 seen a lot of Clark, and like you were saying, 139 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:47.079 framing a movie around, can Superman beat this guy up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 140 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:52.079 of course he can. He's Superman, and so yeah, I'd 141 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:56.920 love to see more Clark. And I'd love to see. 142 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:01.279 Like, how do you have Laurence fish for as Perry 143 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:03.720 White and then just not use him at all? 144 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:10.000 Yes, exactly, those networks of relationships, Like if Superman is this, 145 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:15.639 you know, friendly, warm, approachable character, he should have relationships. 146 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.439 He should have relationships with his family, with his coworkers, 147 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:21.000 with his wife obviously not his wife yet in the 148 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.040 movie with the people of Metropolis, with his dog and 149 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.480 other superheroes, and it seems like we're going to be 150 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.319 getting that in some form in this movie, right. 151 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:32.000 Yeah. 152 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:33.759 The inclusion of the dog, I know it was something that 153 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:36.240 that's tripped up a lot. The inclusion of the dog. 154 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:37.920 I know it was something that's kicked off a lot 155 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.079 of conversation online and I kind of don't get how 156 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:43.120 anyone would not be in favor of it. I think 157 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:45.800 the movie that came out not that long ago with 158 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:49.480 Kevin Hart, and I think the Rock may have soured 159 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:51.600 some folks, is that was not the movie is about 160 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:53.480 Crypto and Batman's dog the. 161 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:55.920 Name, Yeah, the super Pets movie. 162 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.879 Super Pets, which was not the best. Necessarily people loved 163 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.680 your thought and that's great. But yeah, to me, it 164 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:05.519 just that one scene especially really seemed to feel like 165 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:07.680 this is going to be a more lighthearted not that 166 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:12.000 I'm sure there's maybe some seriousness involved, but that is 167 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:13.560 going to be a little bit more of the rom com, 168 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.240 a little more of the comedy of you know, a 169 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.279 person attempting to live this double life of being Clark 170 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.120 while being Superman, instead of it being about like, wam bam, 171 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:27.040 look at the great majesty of the Kryptonians as they 172 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:28.920 fight for the soul of Earth or whatever it is. 173 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.000 Yeah, I will my my one tiny criticism. It's not 174 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.679 even a criticism. I just like, this is what's going 175 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.440 to happen in twenty twenty five. Everything's going to be CGI. 176 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:43.120 But imagine if they had gotten like a dog actor 177 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.159 and they got to go on like their press tour 178 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.600 and the dog is like sitting in his own little 179 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:50.879 chair and like we've lost something. 180 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:54.240 I had not had that CGI. 181 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:59.559 I I mean, I don't mean this critically. He looks 182 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:02.759 cg to me like the way of furs, but maybe 183 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.720 there's a real dog on. 184 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:08.399 My understanding is that animal actors are not always treated 185 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:10.720 the best, and so there is some there's some reason 186 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:13.440 of like moving the CGI as a way to be 187 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.240 better to the actors. But also, yeah, that would like 188 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:18.679 I would hope there is some dog at some point 189 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:20.600 that is doing some some of that, some of that 190 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:22.279 and also being very well treated though. 191 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:24.679 Yes, and getting and getting treats for doing stuff. 192 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.159 Yeah, because could Yeah, so we'll say about that, but yeah, 193 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:31.120 talk about what else from the trailer kind of gives 194 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.600 gives you some thought of what direction we might be 195 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:35.720 going into this and why it might be a good one. 196 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.720 I mean, the thing that really got me because I 197 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:46.240 I am on the record as being self protective about 198 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:51.759 this movie. I love Superman very very much. I as 199 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.519 as you mocked me for have been kind of a 200 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:59.440 downer about most Superman movies. I do think Christopher Reeve 201 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:01.960 did a good job. It's just that's a pre crisis Superman, 202 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:06.480 and I'm a post crisis gal. I really I had 203 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.360 a lot of hope with the First Man of Steel 204 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:10.919 trailer and then the movie turned out to not really 205 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:15.039 be what I was looking for, and so I told myself, 206 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.840 don't get excited just because the trailer looks good. You 207 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.720 could be disappointed again, Like, don't get your hopes up. 208 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:23.240 And then there was that one two punch in the 209 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:26.679 trailer of like Crypto showing up, and then it cuts 210 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.519 to Superman saving a little girl, and I was like, 211 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.399 all right, James Gunn, you've got me, Like, that's all 212 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.679 I want. I want him to love his dog and 213 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.360 take care of those weaker than him. That's it. 214 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:45.679 Maybe we can clarify for listeners real quick what you 215 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.240 mean by pre and post crisis, because I'm familiar with comics. 216 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:53.919 There are multiple crisises in DC, So what specifically are 217 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.399 you telling us with that phrase. 218 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:02.360 So in nineteen eighty five, DC decide to drastically revamp 219 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.440 major aspects of their universe, and one of the things 220 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:11.559 that got a really significant makeover was Superman. It's they 221 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.240 did this by telling a story called Crisis on Infinite Earths, 222 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:19.080 and so everything before that is considered pre crisis, and 223 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:23.279 everything after that is the post crisis universe. And as 224 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:26.480 you've said, there have since been further reboots, and so 225 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.480 we got the New fifty two universe and we got 226 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.279 the Rebirth universe, and like they it's that line from 227 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.320 Pacific rim of like these happen more and more frequently, 228 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:36.639 and soon we'll be seeing one every thirty seconds or whatever. 229 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:44.759 But the changes to Superman have by and large really stuck, 230 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.159 even despite those other reboots. And the major shift was 231 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.759 before nineteen eighty five, Clark or Superman or kal El 232 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:57.399 was the real person, like he landed on Earth with 233 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:02.519 full memory of Krypton. He identify as Kryptonian everything about it, 234 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:05.799 Like he Clark Kent was a disguise, that was a 235 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:09.559 mask that he put on to move among humans from 236 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:14.679 nineteen eighty five on. He did not develop his powers 237 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.960 until puberty, so he was raised as a human by humans. 238 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.799 He identifies as Clark Kent. And it's not that Superman 239 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:24.600 is a disguise so much is that it's the outfit 240 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.240 he wears so that he can do his job. But 241 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.519 he's much more obviously he's biologically the same amount of 242 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:34.240 Kryptonian as he's ever been, but he's much more human 243 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.279 personality wise, and that there are all sorts of other 244 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.720 like little details of Superman's life that are either pre 245 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.279 crisis or post crisis, but that's the major change, Like 246 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.039 are we looking at somebody who thinks of himself as 247 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:53.440 Superman or Clark Kent, Kryptonian or human? And it does 248 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.840 seem like the movie is kind of juggling that question, 249 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.320 which will be interesting and I have my opinion. We'll 250 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:02.720 see where the movie lands. 251 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:03.960 Yeah. 252 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.000 I really like that phrasing, especially because one thing that 253 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.120 if you heard Jessica on the podcast before we've talked 254 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.559 about a lot, is that that idea stands very much 255 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.440 in contrast to, for example, Batman, who I think and 256 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.159 this is a theory I got from the folks at 257 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.519 DC on Screen podcast, but I really think it holds 258 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:23.000 up that in the best tellings of that, Bruce Wayne 259 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.080 is a character he invents so that people don't lock 260 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:28.279 him away. He is Batman like that is what his 261 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.440 psychological profile is, and that that I think some of 262 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.480 the best episodes of the Justice League cartoon or the 263 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.799 Justice the Animated show, I should maybe say that are 264 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.279 really about conflicts between Batman and Clark Kent. And I 265 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:44.200 say those names very intentionally because it's they kind of 266 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:48.960 clash because Batman doesn't understand that Clark mostly wants to 267 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.840 be Clark and then put on the Cape to save people, 268 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.720 and Clark doesn't understand that Batman doesn't want to actually 269 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.799 mostly be Bruce Wayne, and vice versa. 270 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:02.200 Yeah, there's a lot from the Lois and Clark TV 271 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:05.840 show from the nineties where Clark says, and this to me, 272 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.399 this is like what he says, Clark Kent is who 273 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.480 I am. Superman is what I can do. And for 274 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.840 me that has always been like the high water mark 275 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:18.159 for understanding the division of the character, at least as 276 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:21.320 I interpret him. But now that you said that about Batman, 277 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:23.120 I think it's very funny to flip that on its 278 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.399 head and say, like Batman is who I am, Bruce 279 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.799 Wayne is what I can do, which is actually pretty 280 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.399 fair because Bruce Wayne is the one with the money. 281 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.559 Yeah, and then the critique is often raised now of 282 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.320 like the best way to stop crime is not to 283 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.360 punch poor people who are turning to crime, but to 284 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:39.840 give those poor people better alternatives so they don't have 285 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:40.639 to go work for the Riddler. 286 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.600 But that's a whole love it story. 287 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.919 Well, and to talk about that, I think I had 288 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:48.759 a similar reaction to what you were talking about about 289 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.559 the moment where that he saves the little girl, And 290 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:55.440 what really struck me was you were showing his power 291 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.799 not in his ability to punch, not in his ability 292 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:01.559 to fight, but in his ability to protect and Riki. 293 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.559 For me, it really struck to a line in Star Wars. 294 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.799 And you and I have talked about a lot that 295 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.480 we don't We don't fight to destroy the things we hate, 296 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.360 we fight to protect the things we love. For either 297 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.159 of you talk about kind of what that scene means 298 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.679 in the trailer and kind of what we think it's 299 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:16.879 saying about whose Superman is? 300 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:18.039 All right? 301 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.240 I think that scene is everything, and it's it's a 302 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.720 struck a similar chord as maybe the first episode of 303 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.080 Superman and Lois the TV show on the WB that 304 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.720 just wrapped up where they they put him in the 305 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.480 classic like holding the car pose from Action Comics one, 306 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:40.600 and then like he has a conversation with a kid. 307 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.240 I think the kid like compliments as soon as like thanks, 308 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.840 my mom made it, and it's like yes, like that's 309 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.360 that's the Superman I love. And this Yeah, the scene 310 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.440 you mentioned does give similar vibes that he's using his 311 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.840 immense strength to protect the our most vulnerable and like that, 312 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:01.799 that to me is like what's Superman should represent? And 313 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:03.759 it you know, you said we're not going to bash 314 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:07.960 the Snyder movies, but I believe it stands and start. 315 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.720 Contrast to the way Superman acts in those movies often 316 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:16.639 like callously destroying buildings and ultimately harming people in his 317 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:20.440 battle is odd. And it took until Batman v. Superman 318 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.240 where it's actually Bruce Wayne who's the one that's like 319 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:25.200 taking care of the people on the ground, which is 320 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.039 just like such a such a wild contrast to me. 321 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.080 Well, he does until he decides to just hit him 322 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.799 all with his tank, right, you. 323 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.320 Know, practicality and yet and just to be clear there, 324 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:39.879 I think I think I'm definitely on record as not 325 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:41.799 being a fan of Zack snyder interpretation of a lot 326 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.639 of these characters, especially Superman. I think right now the 327 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.039 Internet is full of a lot of people being like 328 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.399 yay Zack Snyder, the hell with this or yay James Gunn, 329 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.000 which means the hell with Zack Snyder. My view is, look, 330 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.639 a lot of people love Zack Snyder's interpretation and it 331 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.120 wasn't my favorite. I'm guessing it wasn't your favorite of 332 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.639 either of you two, And I don't think it has 333 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:03.120 to be all about like which one's better, but I 334 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.000 think we can talk about that was one particular direction 335 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.720 for the character, and as Rikier said, this is a 336 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.079 pretty stark contrast, and. 337 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.240 Yeah, I think I mean, I'll say it. 338 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:15.160 I'll say that this is better and that it aligns 339 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.319 more with my belief of what Superman should be. Yeah, 340 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.440 and like that can differ from other people's belief but 341 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.319 in terms of my perspective, I'm just gonna say it's better, 342 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:23.960 Like I don't care. 343 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.759 That's fair. That's really fair. Yeah, really one that I'm 344 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:28.599 a lot more excited for. 345 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.799 But what I am concerned? Sorry, go ahead, Jessica, Oh no, I. 346 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.799 Was just gonna say, going back to the scene of 347 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.599 him saving the little girl, I think comparing it to 348 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.480 that moment in Superman and Lois is such a perfect 349 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.920 comparison because right after he saves the little girl, we 350 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:50.319 also have that moment of the little boy who's like 351 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.799 putting up the flag with the Superman logo on it, 352 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:58.839 and that also, like the I've seen a few I 353 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:01.319 wish I had the links will never be able to 354 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.279 find them. But I've seen a few posts like with 355 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.000 people talking about Superman recently, especially in the wake of 356 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.519 the trailer, how Superman is a power fantasy, but he's 357 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:12.440 not a power fantasy of being able to do whatever 358 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.480 you want, or to hurt people or beat anybody up. 359 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:22.000 He's a power fantasy of being able to affect positive change, 360 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.000 of being able to protect people who need it, which 361 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.759 I think a lot of people right now, for various 362 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.119 reasons that we don't need to get into, may be 363 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:37.400 feeling that very much. And to me, Superman has always 364 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.279 also been a point of inspiration, like the fact that 365 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:45.039 he is this He's not a Clark Kent to me, 366 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:47.799 is not a nerd like Peter Parker who gets bullied. 367 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:54.200 He's just anonymous. He's forgettable. He blends into the crowd, 368 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:58.480 like that scene of him navigating the busy streets in Metropolis, 369 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.119 and like people not knowing he's un he goes unnoticed. 370 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.039 To me, the metaphor of Superman has always been that 371 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.559 we all look like ordinary, mild mattered people, and we 372 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:15.799 all have this capacity for great good. And so to 373 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.160 see him save a child and then inspire a child 374 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:24.079 back to back point, it's so like I'm getting chills now. 375 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:28.599 So good, and that that reminds me of a similar 376 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.279 scene at the end of The Amazing Spider Man Too, 377 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:35.200 the Andrew Garfield one, where Spider Man is like taking 378 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.920 a break, but then a kid wearing a Spider Man 379 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.000 mask like stands in front of the rhino, right, and 380 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.279 then he showed Spider Man shows up and he's like 381 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.359 thanks kid, like I got it from here. But yeah, 382 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:51.839 like inspiring courage, inspiring hope, yeah, right. I think is 383 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:53.519 an important role for heroes. 384 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:55.440 Like this, And I'll say that that stands in mark 385 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:57.880 contrast the person who is normally the one I'm always 386 00:19:57.880 --> 00:19:59.839 saying is better than Superman, but in this case, I 387 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:02.200 think isn't. Because if you think about In the Dark Night, 388 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.240 which I think is probably the pre eminent Batman movie 389 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.720 except maybe for Robert Pattinson Batman, which is something I 390 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.079 never thought i'd be saying. But in that when people 391 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.519 try to be like, we're inspired by Batman, you want 392 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:15.680 to do the same thing, He's like, no, go away, 393 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.359 I don't want you here. And partially that's because you 394 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.839 can't do what Batman does. Because Batman can do what 395 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.759 he does because he has all of that money, and 396 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.000 I think you're right that there's an extent to which, yes, 397 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.160 I if I jump in front of someone who's getting 398 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.000 maybe hit by a car, I'm not going to come 399 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.400 out of that quite as well as a little as 400 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.680 as Superman might. But I still can try. I can 401 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.799 still And there's eight million other ways in which I can. 402 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.279 You know, when someone who is not like me is 403 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.759 getting bullied at school or at my work, or is 404 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.359 not getting listened to, I can say, hey, maybe you 405 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.359 know that person we keep shutting down, like let they 406 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:52.039 had a great idea. 407 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.400 Let's listen to that, like to me. I think that's 408 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:55.920 one of the. 409 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:01.000 I love these stories as metaphors because yeah, it shouldn't 410 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.480 be about oh Superman can punch on in a way 411 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.039 I never could, but it can be about yeah, Superman 412 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:09.440 can use his ability to protect people. Well, what are 413 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.279 my abilities? What are the privileges I have? What are 414 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.440 the resources I have? How can I use those to 415 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:14.920 protect people who are being attacked? 416 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.079 And that's why he's a reporter, Like, yeah, that job 417 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.160 is not an accident. 418 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.160 And then go ahead, well I was just gonna say, like, 419 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.640 in real life, you know, we don't have Superman, but 420 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:32.279 I live in Los Angeles and we're dealing with horrible 421 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:36.279 wildfires right now, and the brave people of the fire 422 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.599 departments around the city are going out and you know, 423 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.359 staring death in the face and doing amazing things. I 424 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.119 can't do that. I'm not trained for that, I shouldn't 425 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:50.519 do that. But from the fringes, I am like thinking of, 426 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.440 like what can I do to help people, you know, 427 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:57.599 not maybe directly, but indirectly, right you know, with volunteering 428 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.720 my time or donating money, like those things are important. 429 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.440 And so the people who have the great ability, like 430 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.839 you know, going back to Spider Man, like the ability 431 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.160 to inspire I think, yeah, other people to do what 432 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.319 you can within your own meanings is absolutely tant amount. 433 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.279 And I mean because you're going on that, like you're right, 434 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.000 like you know, unless you have that good training, you 435 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:21.079 shouldn't be finding a fire. 436 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:23.000 I know that, you know. 437 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:24.720 With all these people evacuating, because I'm in a lot 438 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.920 of disability lists, I'm seeing a lot of great stuff 439 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.960 about like you know, regular citizens, you know, going out 440 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.240 to help their disabled neighbor evacuate who might not be 441 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.079 able to or just you know, just give me a 442 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:35.880 lot of people living in FEMA camps for a while 443 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.000 after this, or otherwise needing help, you know, and like 444 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:40.480 packing a bag of groceries to send to someone you 445 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:41.319 know or whatever it is. 446 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:43.920 Yeah, So that that kind of thing I really love. 447 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.400 And and going to what you were just saying there, Jessica. 448 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.880 On the one hand, I we're leaving an incredibly politicized 449 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.640 world right now, as we've been seeing if you look online, 450 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.839 even just the fire itself is getting very politicized. But 451 00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:59.480 whose fault it is and all this kind of stuff, 452 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.799 And I think people know right where we take good. 453 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.960 And you know, this podcast goes on the other times. 454 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.799 I'm gonna bring that up. 455 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:10.839 But there are ways in which I'm really curious how 456 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.680 this movie is going to stand in that regard, because 457 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.839 even something as simple as being part of the press 458 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:17.839 is so politicized right now, you know, in terms of 459 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.799 people's opinions about the media, and you know, Clark Kent 460 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.960 and Superman, your peace, justice and the American way has 461 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.799 always been very wrapped up in Americana in a way 462 00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.440 I think even more so than Captain America, who's literally 463 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.400 Captain America. 464 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.359 Go ahead. 465 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:38.400 Well, actually, I was doing a bit of research on 466 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:43.720 this recently. Originally, the American Way was not part of 467 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.640 that tagline. So that line truth justice in the American 468 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:50.119 Way comes from the Superman radio show, which started in 469 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.400 forty or forty one or thereabouts. 470 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.799 When we were in a war. Well, no, actually we 471 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:56.039 were not. 472 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:00.200 Go ahead, it depends on exactly. Yeah, No, was in 473 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.640 December forty one, so we were not quite at war yet, 474 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.920 and so it was truth and justice. There was also 475 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.079 a bit in that opening. It was like the same opener, 476 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.279 the equivalent to a theme song for every episode, and 477 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.079 that was also where we got like faster than a 478 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.519 speeding bullet, all that stuff. One of the things that 479 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:22.359 was in there that we don't hear a lot anymore 480 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.880 was Champion of the Oppressed, but was what was not 481 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:31.400 originally in there was in the American Way that got 482 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:39.920 added after we joined the war, and it eventually because 483 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.640 that show ran into the fifties, eventually they took it 484 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:49.319 back out and in the nineteen forty eight serials, so 485 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.079 those were like short serialized episodes of that. You would 486 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:55.559 go to the movies and before the movie they'd play 487 00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:00.799 like an episode of Superman. Basically in the serials, paw 488 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:05.160 Kent actually tells Clark that he has to stand up 489 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:10.519 for I believe it's truth and tolerance, like and there's 490 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.920 no American way like that. We do think of that 491 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.359 phrase with Superman, and I'm certainly not going to say 492 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:21.680 that he's not very associated with Americana, because obviously he is. 493 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.920 And there was a whole controversy about a decade ago 494 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.880 when he like renounced his American citizenship and people freaked 495 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:33.319 out or whatever. But that phrase has been used at 496 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.200 very specific points in history for political reasons. 497 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:38.279 Oh, I'm sure. 498 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.599 I mean when you started saying it was added, my 499 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.160 first thought was that was gonna be added during the 500 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.200 Comics Code nineteen fifties days we were trying very hard 501 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:46.960 to make comics patriotics. 502 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.400 So no, you you'd think I mean that that would 503 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:50.400 be a good guess. 504 00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:52.559 Well, that's just my point is that I think, like 505 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:55.200 and already you know, I think there's a lot of 506 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:56.920 people making the point that I would definitely agree with 507 00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.599 of like Superman's an illegal immigrant is a way of 508 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:02.480 thinking of him and other people, you know, claiming on 509 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.799 the Elon Musk's side and other people claiming that like 510 00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:10.599 Trump that and other people claiming that Superman is as apotomy. Yeah, 511 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.799 one more time, and other people claiming that Superman is 512 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:16.599 the epitome of conservative values, I claim that I do 513 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.279 not think holds water, but it's certainly out there. And 514 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.720 my point being that I can tell that the conversation 515 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:25.039 about this is going to be incredibly politicized, and I'm 516 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.039 curious to see to what extent Gun either is seen 517 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:30.880 as making a point, or is making a point one 518 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:32.920 or the other, or tries to make the movie very 519 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.720 very much not making a point, which could be kind 520 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:37.839 of a failing of just not saying anything. So you know, 521 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:39.640 you're something I'm gonna curious about, because as you said, 522 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:44.160 it seems like, you know, there's always if everything is political, 523 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:46.960 everything is making a point. But Superman especially has always 524 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.359 been a statement of some kind, whether it's from two 525 00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:52.640 Jewish men in the thirties wanting to create someone who 526 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.440 stands up to evil landlords and union crushing bosses, to 527 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.519 in the forties of wanting to have an epitome of 528 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.640 America in a time of war, to the sixties and 529 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:03.759 seventies and all the way. 530 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.680 Up to today. 531 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:14.079 Because I certainly think that that idea of like and 532 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:16.440 we can talk forever about like you know, what American 533 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.720 ideals versus American actuality or whatever. But like I surely 534 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:21.480 grew up at a time of learning, like you know, 535 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.240 what America is about is about standing up for the 536 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:25.759 little guy, you know, and like protecting those who need 537 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:27.960 protecting from the menace of communism. 538 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:29.960 Because it was the eighties, but like that, it was 539 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.640 those ideals. 540 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.000 And so I think for a long time I rejected 541 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.079 Superman because it felt like, oh, American propaganda stuff. And 542 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:39.319 now to time when it's a lot more discussion about 543 00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.200 like reclaiming that sort of thing. Yeah, it's just also 544 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:43.720 the reasons. I'm interest to see where they go with it. 545 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:46.880 Yeah, And I also think with a character like Superman, 546 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.880 like Superman is bigger than any individual Superman story. And 547 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.200 there was something, I want to say, it was at 548 00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.640 the end of last year. There's something going around where 549 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:02.440 people could vote on whether they thought certain fictional characters 550 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:08.720 were Republicans or Democrats, and oh, yeah, I remember that. 551 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.440 I don't think Superman was actually on there, but Captain 552 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.960 America was, and it was right down the middle because 553 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:20.200 Captain America in the comics is very left leaning. If 554 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.319 you read the comics he's very left leaning, like read 555 00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.160 the stuff that was coming out around Watergate. But if 556 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.680 you were thinking about Captain America as a symbol, as 557 00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:34.799 an icon, as a guy in a costume you can 558 00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:38.920 take photos with in Times Square, he's a litmus test 559 00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:42.720 for what you personally believe America should be. And Superman 560 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:48.079 functions very very similarly. So yes, in the actual text 561 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.680 of the comics, and of course we're talking about eighty 562 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.480 seven years of comics now, so there is a range 563 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.880 of how he behaves. But in the text of the comics, 564 00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:01.960 he is an illegal immigrant and a journalist, and those 565 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:09.759 have implications for what he would believe. But as an 566 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:13.319 as a larger than life icon, he is going to 567 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.720 be whatever you personally think is good, right. 568 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.240 And I think a lot of where Superman will be 569 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:26.839 positioned as a political symbol in these movies is going 570 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:33.000 to depend on Lex Luthor because especially like Superman's immigrant 571 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.559 status is most highlighted by Lex Luthor, like when he's 572 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.480 making a presidential run or something like that, when he's 573 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.759 when he's trying to gather more political power, he highlights 574 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.559 that Superman is not one of us, as in like 575 00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:50.160 in this case, a literal alien right, but that obviously 576 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.799 has very like real world implications, and so I'm very 577 00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:56.920 curious to see what this Gun movie is going to 578 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.440 do with Lex Luthor, who I just learned is going 579 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.559 to be played by Nicholas Holt, which is fascinating. I 580 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.240 just saw a screenshot of him without the hair, which 581 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.000 is good. Just just start him out, don't don't have 582 00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.440 a weird explanation for why he loses his hair. Just 583 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:13.400 have him start out bald, because that's how we know 584 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:15.119 Lex Luthor so good. 585 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.880 I will say that while I love Jesse Eisenberg as 586 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:24.440 an actor, his version of Lex Luthor in it sat 587 00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:26.640 Nyer Movies is probably the one that was the most 588 00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:31.400 like hashtag not my so and so, and he makes. 589 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:32.720 That guy ranch. 590 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.240 Yeah, that's exactly what he was, just being a dime 591 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:41.160 store joker, like it was just the jokers, a great villain, 592 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:42.839 but the joker is a joker. Don't make the joker 593 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.400 into but anyway. So I'm just hoping or something very 594 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:46.160 very different from that. 595 00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:49.200 I mean, for me, the performance to be will always 596 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.880 be Michael Rosenbaum. Like I will never say Smallville is 597 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.000 the best Superman story out there, but Rosenbaum's Lex is 598 00:30:57.920 --> 00:30:59.000 he's so good. 599 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.319 I'm about halfway into season one when I'm still not sure, 600 00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.480 like to what extent he's nefarious, or to what extent 601 00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:05.799 this is his origin story. 602 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.279 And he just kind of not at all. 603 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:11.640 Well, the thing is, so far, he's very convincing, is Lex. 604 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.440 He's very convincing as a rich kid who's trying not 605 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:15.359 to be so privileged. 606 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.960 What he's not doing. 607 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.720 He's not very convincing as a high school student because 608 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:21.599 the actor's like thirty with the show, Well he's not. 609 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.000 He's in his twenties, which makes it especially weird that 610 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.119 he meets a fourteen year old and is like, I'd 611 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:29.880 like to buy you presents and invite you to my house. 612 00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.400 Like he's just trying to be Doc Brown. 613 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:34.880 Yeah, yeah, that's fair. 614 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.839 Yeah, he has a lot of the trappings like here's okay, 615 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.200 here's my thing for Lex Luthor. I want any Luther 616 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:45.880 to be constantly swirling brandy in a snifterer while listening 617 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:49.240 to Wagner, maybe lying on a tiger skin rug in 618 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.319 front of a roaring fire like that, Like I want 619 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.519 everything to smoking a cigar like that is what I 620 00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:59.519 want from any Luthor. And Michael Rosemom does that all 621 00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.880 the time, and he says everything in a really sinister way, 622 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:04.880 but he's actually just a super nice guy who Clark 623 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.279 is terrible too. It's like a really bizarre dynamic. 624 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.440 Yeah, And for me, I mean it's funny if we're 625 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.039 talking for about punching the ultimate heroes and stuff, the 626 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:17.079 ultimate bad guys. My Lex is always gonna be Gene 627 00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:18.759 Hackman because that's who I grew up on. I think 628 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:21.519 he's fantastic, But part of what I think is fascinating 629 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:25.880 is he's an idiot in those Christian He's like, he's 630 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.519 pretty good, but his main assistant is an utter bumbling 631 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:32.839 nincom poop. Oh, what's his name? 632 00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:33.880 Otis? 633 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.640 Otis, Yes, Otis, and of course all the stuff with 634 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.160 him and his test maker. So I would love to 635 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:41.680 see more of those side characters explored in great ways. 636 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.799 Well. And that's another thing that when they revamped Superman 637 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.160 in nineteen eighty five, Prior to that, Lex had been 638 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.279 a mad scientist. That was his thing. And actually the 639 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.160 fact that he's got this weird real estate scheme in 640 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:59.839 the movies is a little it's almost like a pre 641 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.200 cursor to where he would go because it was not 642 00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:06.359 until post crisis, after nineteen eighty five that he became 643 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.000 a businessman. 644 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:09.440 And like, oh interesting, okay. 645 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:11.680 Before that, like he was a mad scientist. He was 646 00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:13.960 a known criminal. He was always breaking out of jail. 647 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.599 Everybody knew that he was a criminal, and they pivoted that. 648 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:20.920 It was a really big change to make him this 649 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:25.200 respected figure who like they're constantly resetting it. They're constantly 650 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.519 having him be like, oh, I didn't do all those crimes. 651 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:29.880 It was my clone. And they're like, oh, We're so sorry, 652 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:34.000 mister Luthor. Please right take back your billions of dollars 653 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.720 and go back to your penthouse. And I think as 654 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:41.720 every single year that has gone by since nineteen eighty five, 655 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.960 that has only become more relevant. 656 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.720 And can we just shut. 657 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.559 The door on him in a mecha suit because those 658 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:51.079 are not my favorite Lex Luthor's. 659 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:51.759 No. 660 00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:54.880 No, I was about to say, like that's I don't 661 00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:58.400 think we've had a live action in Luthor suit right, 662 00:33:58.920 --> 00:33:59.759 the green and purple. 663 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:00.759 I don't think we have. 664 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:03.720 And that's what I would want out of this movie. 665 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:04.279 Again. 666 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.440 I think Nicholas Holt is a is a kind of 667 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.239 actor who could carry that that physicality even though like 668 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.880 a lot of it would be cgi like he's done. 669 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:16.199 He was Beast in the X Men movie, so he's 670 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.559 he's got some some pedigree that that would be more 671 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.760 believable I think than a lot of other lutherers like 672 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.440 Gene Hackman, you would never want to have in a suit. 673 00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.480 And I think I could see James Gunn going for 674 00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:32.440 it because he likes the most ridiculous elements, like he 675 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:36.480 really embraces those, which I fully support that. I love 676 00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:37.119 that he does that. 677 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:38.519 Yeah, and. 678 00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:42.559 Well, I was gonna say, with what we know from 679 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:46.920 the trailer slash cast, I don't think that there's another 680 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.960 I mean, there are a couple of potentials, but it 681 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:55.480 seems like Luthor is poised to be the final boss 682 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.440 of this movie. 683 00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:59.760 I mean, there is a dragon just putting it out there. 684 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:03.360 There's a giant lizard breathing fire. But yes, it's probably 685 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:05.800 a tool of the antagonist. But there was a dragon 686 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:06.400 in the movie. 687 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:11.280 So isn't Max Lord. Yeah? Max Lord is in this 688 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.280 Oh I saw that Max Lord paying him right. 689 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:20.440 That's my issue is that I don't think the way 690 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:25.039 that James uses as Brother Sean that he would be 691 00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:26.159 a main villain. 692 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:28.920 No, I agree and also he was the main villain 693 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.280 in Wonder Woman nineteen eighty four, and they might want 694 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.039 to be like, let's not go back to that. 695 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:35.400 Well so soon I was gonna say, which is a 696 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.199 criminal under using of Patropascal and I would have loved 697 00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:39.199 to see him recast in this. 698 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:41.719 But fair enough, Oh, I thought he was good, Like 699 00:35:41.800 --> 00:35:42.840 the movie was bad, but I. 700 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:43.440 Know what I mean. 701 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.480 It's like he was really good in a really bad movie. 702 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:47.280 But even then his character was terribly written. 703 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.119 I mean, I'm also a Max Lord like this one 704 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:56.440 woman Max Lord Defense Squad because he only became a 705 00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:02.559 villain okay, twenty one years ago, but so yes, it 706 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.800 was a long time ago, but I knew him before 707 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:08.199 and he was my friend. I'm still I'm still bitter 708 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:08.679 about it. 709 00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:09.480 That's fair. 710 00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.000 So as we're exploring. 711 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:13.639 Luthor, and. 712 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:16.679 One thing I'll say on that Lex Luthor is and 713 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:18.480 here's why I kind of don't like the mecha suit 714 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:22.760 for me. And granted this, I did come up with 715 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:26.039 the Christopher Reeves Gene Hackman but in which I think 716 00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:27.519 one of that says a very strong theme. But also 717 00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:28.599 I think it comes out in a lot of the 718 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.760 comics pre mecha suit is that kind of going back 719 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.679 to you before Superman is the person who can out 720 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:38.800 punch anyone, and so Lex Luthor, at least as the 721 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:42.639 evil Genius, I loved as a villain because there's no 722 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:45.559 question in the world that Superman can punch Lex Luthor 723 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.079 in the face and win, like that's never a question. 724 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.079 The problem is that Lec Luther is always five steps 725 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.039 ahead and a chess match where if he does just 726 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:56.719 punch him, he won't stop the missiles that are gonna 727 00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:59.559 trigger this. They're gonna tgger whatever in the Rothstein machine 728 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.519 that's gonna cause it all to rug Goldberg machine. 729 00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.079 I'm sorry, it's gonna make it all happen. 730 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:07.159 And that therefore I love when he has to be 731 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.360 Clark Kent the journalist to find out the secrets and 732 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:13.400 figure it all out. And so that was just my 733 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.039 argument for anti mechasuit is I really like the idea 734 00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:18.400 of Lex Luthor, who's always like, yeah, you can beat 735 00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:21.239 me up Superman, that's never in question. The problem is 736 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.199 can you figure out my eight level complicated plan. 737 00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.800 Okay, yeah, fair enough, but we'll. 738 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:34.679 See now we do have a number of other great 739 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:36.920 characters that this has gone into that Riquanno, you wanted 740 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.559 to jump into so take us away. 741 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:42.079 Well, this is an area where I was a little 742 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.239 disappointed or wary of the trailer is that they show 743 00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:51.800 other members of the Justice League, presumably in this universe, 744 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:58.079 and I don't I just want a good Superman film, 745 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.960 and by showing us that, hey, there's Justice League, they're 746 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.440 in this movie, it just feels like another step in 747 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.119 DC trying to play catch up with Marvel, you know, 748 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.880 after all their failed attempts in the past, saying well, 749 00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.199 we need to get our justice our Justice League movie 750 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:19.519 and our DCEU going quickly because we're still like several 751 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:20.960 steps behind Marvel. 752 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.000 So I just wanted a. 753 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:27.599 Like simple Superman movie Lex Luthor, Lois Lane. But we 754 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:32.760 get Guy Gardner going Green Lantern. There's a Hawk girl 755 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.519 in the trailer. I think I saw mister Terrific, but 756 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.639 I'm not seeing him listed in the cast for some reason. 757 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:43.280 But in the cast I am seeing Rex Mason listed, 758 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.599 So that like, that's a lot of secondary hero characters 759 00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:52.599 to have in a Superman movie. And I James Gunn 760 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:56.039 in both DC and Marvel has done a good job 761 00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:59.920 with ensemble casts. But I don't want a Superman movie 762 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:01.960 to have an ensemble cast, like at least in the 763 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.280 hero department. So so thoughts on. 764 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:10.320 That, Yeah, I am also wary for that same reason. 765 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:13.880 I like, I mean, my thoughts are exactly the same 766 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.000 as yours. I am excited. I want to see these characters. Like, 767 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:20.719 I am a DC girl. I love the DC universe. 768 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:25.280 I am so sad that so far DC has not 769 00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:30.000 really managed to build that kind of extended universe that 770 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.920 allows us to see all these characters. Although to be fair, 771 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.239 they definitely did on the CW. There were like billions 772 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:37.280 of characters over there. 773 00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:41.239 We literally did Crisis on Infinite Earth with yeah, the 774 00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.079 episode on five different television shows. 775 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.920 Yeah, and like which I mean, there's something about that 776 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:50.000 which is like so perfect because it's how these events 777 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.679 play out in comics where you have to like read 778 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.960 all these different comics, and which goes back to what 779 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.719 we started this episode talking about, which is that these 780 00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.920 stories maybe work better television then for movies. But so, like, 781 00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:06.880 I'm happy to see all of these characters. Like Guy 782 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:10.639 Gardner is my favorite Green Lantern. I am thrilled that 783 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:13.519 he's here with his terrible hair. I think Nathan Fillion 784 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:18.400 is having the most fun, Like, I'm so excited for this. 785 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.480 I love Metamorpho, I love Hawk Girl, like I love 786 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:25.000 Mister t Like. These are all characters I want to see, 787 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:28.000 but I worry that they're gonna get in the way. 788 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.800 Yeah, so here's the one counter argument I'll make. And 789 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:33.559 then I do want to talk about bad Haircut Guy 790 00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:37.480 because for me, as someone who the only real exposure 791 00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.039 Green Lantern I've had is to John Stewart, I was 792 00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:45.559 very surprised that it wasn't John Stewart. And to be clear, 793 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:48.199 I'm talking about the John Stuart Green Lantern, not the 794 00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:50.800 Daily Show former host. But those game as a superhero 795 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:57.119 would also be phenomenal. But I love the idea of 796 00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.320 the office rom con that you're talking about. That focus 797 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.320 is more on Clark. I've never really seen that on screen, 798 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.079 so I don't have anything to compare it to. What 799 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.760 I will say though, is that I think my favorite 800 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.000 Superman stories that I have seen on screen, with exception 801 00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.199 of like you know, the Crystal Reeve that it's loved 802 00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.840 as a kid, is where it's Superman as a distinct 803 00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:18.679 contrast to most of. 804 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:19.679 The rest of the other heroes. 805 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.639 Like I really like a Justice League, where Batman is 806 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:26.239 one extreme Superman is another, and most of the heroes 807 00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.000 are somewhere in the middle, with each one kind of 808 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.159 you know, aligning with different ones depending on you know, 809 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.159 where they are. Not that they're fighting with each other, 810 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.760 but they have different philosophies of how to approach the 811 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.599 ethical issues of superheroes, which, shocking enough, is what I 812 00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:42.719 really care about. And I do really like the idea that, like, 813 00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.280 there's a moment that to me feels very Superman from 814 00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.440 the from the MCU, which is in the second Avengers 815 00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.719 movie when they're like getting ready to like finally take 816 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:56.559 on the heads of Hydra and captain Americas's language when 817 00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:58.960 someone says like damn or something like that, and I 818 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:00.679 feel like that that to me is very much a 819 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:03.599 Superman kind of idea of like he's gonna be leading 820 00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:05.239 the heroes, He's gonna be helping the heroes, but he's 821 00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.239 also like keeping them in line to some extent, especially 822 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:09.880 when some of them are maybe wandering a little more 823 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:13.360 into vigilante status or you know, self serving or whatever 824 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.559 it is. So I think, to me, that's the idea 825 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:18.239 of why I like having Superman, along with a lot 826 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:20.719 of other heroes, But I agree with you that, like 827 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:22.320 if all we have is a two and a half 828 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.360 hour movie, which I wish we were back to two 829 00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.679 hour movies, but that's just the new length and you know, 830 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.400 pain for the bladder on those of us were older, 831 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:34.239 but fair enough. Yeah, I think that that's the argument 832 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:35.760 I would make about why I want Superman in a 833 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:37.440 movie with other heroes, But I agree with you that 834 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:41.280 I don't think it has to be this first movie. 835 00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:45.199 I also, I get worried about that because I don't 836 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:49.440 I'm just speculating here. I don't know where things are going. 837 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.320 But all of the superheroes that we do see besides 838 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:55.320 Superman have seemed to have some kind of uniform going on, 839 00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:02.199 and I I worry that they're going to be sort 840 00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.639 of like not the bad guys, but like really misguided, 841 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.039 or they're like all working for the man, or they're 842 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:12.960 like all government agents and Superman has to show them 843 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:14.679 the error of their ways, and they're like it. Like 844 00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.679 there's a scene where really it looks like Guy is 845 00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:24.079 arresting Clark or confronting him in some way, and for Guy, 846 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:29.960 that's he's I'm willing to let him be a douchebag, 847 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.920 because he is a douchebag, and that's part of why 848 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.840 I like him. But I don't want to bring in 849 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.000 a bunch of superheroes to be like, look at them, 850 00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:41.480 they're terrible compared to Superman, because I love all that's fair. 851 00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:44.440 Yeah, to me, it's very much like they're all good guys, 852 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.199 but they have different philosophies and Superman's maybe a bit 853 00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:48.719 more the boy scout than the rest of them, and 854 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.480 that's different than he's doing it right. 855 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:51.320 They're all doing it wrong. 856 00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:56.280 Yeah, So talk to me more about Guy Gardner, because, 857 00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:58.760 as I said, I was definitely surprised, a because I 858 00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.360 think John Stewart is the dominant one in a lot 859 00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:03.960 of the Justice League stuff, which I think it is 860 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:05.800 one of the main things that people who haven't ord 861 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.480 the comics are probably influenced of. But also because and 862 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:13.480 naming Hollywood realities, John Stewart is a black man, and uh, 863 00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:15.960 I don't The character's blackness isn't like he's not black 864 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.880 Panther by any means or Luke Cage, but his blackness 865 00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:22.039 is a part of who the character is. And colic 866 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:25.159 of movies continue not to be the biggest bastion of 867 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.440 diversity in the world. So I'm not saying like they're 868 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.679 wrong to not use the black character if they could have, 869 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.760 but it definitely felt like a curious choice. When you 870 00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:35.360 know people are gonna ask you how diverse you are, 871 00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:37.440 and you had that option, Why do you think they 872 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.159 did tell me more about Guy Gardner and why should 873 00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:42.360 be happy that they've made this choice. 874 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:48.599 Well, so, the Green Lanterns, for anybody not familiar with them, 875 00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:53.400 they're basically space cops. So there are literally thousands of them. Obviously, 876 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:56.639 there aren't that many who are important characters, but there are. 877 00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.679 The Green Lantern Core, right, the Green Lantern Core. 878 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.679 Yes, I think there are like nine of them from 879 00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:06.159 Earth these days, and that's not counting Alan Scott, the 880 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:08.800 first Green Lantern, who isn't part of the core because 881 00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:12.000 the writers hadn't invented it yet. So this sort of 882 00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:16.480 iconic Green Lantern historically is Hal Jordan, who's been around 883 00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:19.239 since nineteen fifty nine, and he's the one that Ryan 884 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:26.679 Reynolds played in the Unfortunate to twenty eleven movie. Then 885 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.159 Guy Gardner was brought in a few years after that 886 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.800 as a very very minor character but sort of an 887 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:37.079 alternate like if anything happened to how guy was there 888 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.599 and he really developed a personality again during the eighties. 889 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.599 It all comes back to the eighties as sort of 890 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:48.679 this like brash asshole, like he is a bully, and 891 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:53.360 he's rude, and he's misogynistic and he's xenophobic and he 892 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:55.800 hates comies and I'll never shut up about it and 893 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.360 the whole he was a comic relief character, Like that 894 00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:01.199 was the point. It was a joke about like this 895 00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:04.800 kind of swaggering, macho male lead that was common at 896 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:09.480 the time. And then from that point the character gradually 897 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:13.119 got more and more nuance added to him, and he's 898 00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:16.039 a much more complex character now, but he does have 899 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:20.360 that very abrasive quality and he's he's funny. He's still 900 00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:23.440 best as a comic relief character. And I think that, 901 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:26.280 more than anything else, is why James Gunn Cassen because 902 00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:29.320 James Gunn likes to do or Casson picked him because 903 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:31.239 he likes to do comedy and he wanted to give 904 00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.639 his buddy Nathan a role and it was it fit, 905 00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:40.920 that's right. John Stewart was introduced in nineteen seventy one 906 00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:46.920 and very specifically his creators, Dannie O'Neill and Neil Adams, 907 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:50.079 wanted to introduce a black Green Lantern. They wanted to 908 00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:54.360 introduce a black hero. DC basically didn't have any black heroes, 909 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:56.840 and then they very very quickly added like five of 910 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.920 them between like sixty nine and seventy one, and John 911 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:03.440 Stewart depending on how you count it, as their first 912 00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:07.440 actual black superhero because he's the first one to have 913 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.480 a code name and a costume. Yeah. So John Stewart 914 00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:12.880 became a much more prominent character thanks to the Justice 915 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.320 League cartoon, where he was chosen because they wanted the 916 00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:19.400 cartoon to not be an all white cast, and he is. 917 00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:24.760 He became one of the best known characters. I'm certainly 918 00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:28.480 not saying he shouldn't have been in this movie. I 919 00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:30.599 will note that there is going to be The Green 920 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.719 Lanterns TV show and he is one of the main 921 00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:43.039 characters along with Hal. I think the choice was just 922 00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.679 made to use Guy Gardner for the comic relief, and 923 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.760 they also have mister terrific Michael Holt in this movie, 924 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:54.840 who is black, and I think, like, obviously black superheroes 925 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:57.199 are not interchangeable, but I think that that was more 926 00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:58.920 of their life. You want to make sure this is 927 00:47:58.960 --> 00:48:00.000 not an all white lineup. 928 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.559 Well, there's gonna be more green, green lantern contact with 929 00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.159 John Stewart, as you said, having him be not here's 930 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:09.679 the green lantern you're gonna care about going forward, but 931 00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:11.960 here's an imbecile that you're gonna have fun laughing at 932 00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:14.239 as part of the show. But it also introduces the 933 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:16.920 idea that the green Lantern core exists. That makes atal sense. 934 00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:22.599 Yeah, I know, Rick, you were yeah, Guy thing. 935 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:25.840 No, I'm I'm sold on Guy in this movie. I 936 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.000 actually agree. I think I would rather have Guy Gardner 937 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.639 in this movie than John Stewart for a lot of 938 00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:35.320 the reasons that you just said, Jessica, And if I 939 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:38.079 could summarize it, it would be that I don't think 940 00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:41.239 Guy Gardner is a main character, whereas I think John 941 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:45.239 Stewart is a main character. He is gonna I think 942 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:48.159 with all these things, like, we don't know if they're 943 00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.400 actually gonna get made, but I think Lanterns is looking 944 00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:55.440 good to get made because they have cast Aaron Pierre 945 00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.920 as John Stewart. Matthew. He's the He's the main actor 946 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.039 in the revel Ridge movie that I've been telling you. 947 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.400 So he's he is, like he's got that, he's got 948 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.960 the swag to be John Stewart to be a main character, 949 00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:12.079 And if he were in this, I think I would 950 00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:15.280 be very disappointed. Like I just want Guy Gardner to 951 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:19.280 get punched by whatever the main bad person is in 952 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.639 this and like have a bloody nose, and like Nathan 953 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:24.719 Fillian can play that character perfectly. 954 00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:28.400 Yes, Okay, that sounds great. I'm here for the hammer. 955 00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.199 You know, come down, Matthew. This may sell you. The 956 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:37.159 most famous iconic scene that Guy Gardner has ever experienced 957 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:40.760 in his entire career is getting punched in the face 958 00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.320 by Batman. 959 00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:44.079 It, I mean, that sounds perfect. 960 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:46.599 Then Guy Gardner, one punch. 961 00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:49.119 Okay, there we go. There we go. 962 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:50.239 Yeah. 963 00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:55.719 And like John Stewart has like some actual, very interesting 964 00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.440 emotional solo stories associated with him that I hope that 965 00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:04.480 the TV show would you utilize some of. It's also 966 00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.800 going to have Hal Jordan's so we'll have to see 967 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.360 like what the balance is between those two, whether they're 968 00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:14.639 partners or whether they alternate their storylines and whatnot. But 969 00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.079 I I like Guy as a character. But I think 970 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.320 of the four traditional Earth Green lanterns to me, like 971 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:27.000 he's the least able to carry carry a story on 972 00:50:27.079 --> 00:50:27.400 his own. 973 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.920 Ye with the four. 974 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:35.679 With the fourth being gosh, I'm blank name Yeah, Kyle 975 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:40.480 who you may be familiar with the term fridging that 976 00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:44.840 actually originated from his storyline where his girlfriend was killed 977 00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:46.800 by his opponent. 978 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:50.159 Got it put and placed in a fridge. 979 00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.559 Yeah, her decapitated and her head placed there. 980 00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:53.920 Oh no, no whole body. 981 00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.400 Oh really, I've always heard that it's her head. 982 00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:00.199 Okay, okay, it's yeah, well. 983 00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:09.079 That either way. But how very edgy exactly. 984 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.679 Which I'll be honest, that's the thing. I love edginus 985 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:13.199 in superheroes, but we've had it so much. I'm very 986 00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.920 okay with some rounded edges with my Superman this time around. 987 00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:18.400 And that sounds like maybe that's what we're gonna get. 988 00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:22.360 So yeah, I think I think this is gonna be 989 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.800 a very wholesome Superman. 990 00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:25.679 M hm. 991 00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:30.880 Again, like we've only seen bits and pieces, but David 992 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:35.719 cornsweat the actor. I watched a TV show with him. 993 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.119 I can't remember what it was called, but I literally 994 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:40.440 was like, this guy should play Superman and then I 995 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:43.719 like googled it and it's like, oh, he's already cast yep. 996 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:47.079 But then, like, I think the thing that impressed me 997 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:51.119 the most in this trailer for him specifically was his 998 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.360 Clark Kent scenes. Like he he did look the part 999 00:51:55.519 --> 00:52:00.400 of the bumbling, like unassuming guy, and I feel like 1000 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.960 they may have put him in a suit that's like 1001 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.679 too big for him, like intentionally to make him look smaller. 1002 00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.480 Oh that's really smart. 1003 00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:15.280 Yeah, and it just looks good. It makes him look smaller, 1004 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.519 and it makes him look less cool and less self assured. 1005 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:20.880 Yeah. 1006 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:23.719 I saw a quote from him where he was saying 1007 00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:27.159 that part of his inspiration for the character's body language 1008 00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.239 as Clark was his brother in law, who is six 1009 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.719 foot five and like big and is always trying to 1010 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:38.559 not be in the way, And it comes through so 1011 00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.199 perfectly in those few scenes that we get. Well. 1012 00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.599 I like that because again, like this isn't even political, 1013 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:46.960 it's more cultural, but just placing it in the conversation, 1014 00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:49.920 Like I think one of the ideas that's most debated 1015 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.440 right now in our culture, and it is essential to 1016 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:56.119 any conversation with superheroes is as essential that any conversation 1017 00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:00.199 about superheroes is masculinity and are what are what does 1018 00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:00.559 a mask? 1019 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:04.159 And role model look like, and I, yeah, I'm really excited. 1020 00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:06.199 To have you know, the Superman often gets put on 1021 00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:09.039 lists of like non toxic ideas of masculinity, you know, 1022 00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:11.480 and that that kind of like, yes, I have all 1023 00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:13.559 this size, but I'm not here to take up space 1024 00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:15.360 and to claim my authority. I'm here to try and 1025 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:18.559 make space for others. Seems really important for that. I 1026 00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:20.519 want us to go too much longer. She've already were 1027 00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.119 coming up on an hour, but Jessica, I do want 1028 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.639 to give you a chance to talk about one the 1029 00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:27.280 name that I've not heard you say yet that I 1030 00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:28.760 know is so essential, Lois Lane. 1031 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.119 Really as just thinking that when you were talking about 1032 00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:35.280 like masculinity and gender roles, I was like, we haven't 1033 00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.679 talked about Lois. We really don't get a lot of 1034 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:41.679 her in the trailer. Like we see her, you know, 1035 00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:45.960 looking at Clerk in the office and there's a bit 1036 00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:49.800 with them flying and kissing, and that's great. I like 1037 00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:53.559 it when she's looking at him in the office and 1038 00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:57.400 kissing him. I do think that the casting is really good. 1039 00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.599 I think anybody who was playing her, it's Rachel Brosnahan 1040 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:05.000 from The Marvelous Missus Mazelle and anyone who can talk 1041 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:08.039 that fast. I mean, that's the that's the biggest hurdle 1042 00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:15.119 to overcome with a Lois I I'm I am hopeful. 1043 00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:21.760 I do think by and large, we tend to get 1044 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:28.159 pretty solid Lois is m hm in adaptations. More so, 1045 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:31.679 like sometimes the I think all the actors have been 1046 00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:36.760 good across the board, both Clark and Lois. But I 1047 00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:41.760 think the writing with Lois doesn't fall into the same 1048 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:47.000 pitfalls that the writing for Clark does. So I I 1049 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:51.320 I feel good about this. I'm I'm excited. I I 1050 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:56.239 love Lois I you know, saying to somebody the other day. 1051 00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.480 In the comic stories, the two characters who are always 1052 00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:01.679 on the right side of history whenever, like the superheroes 1053 00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:04.280 are fighting each other, like you're in a dystopian universe 1054 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.280 where superheroes are evil or outlaw or whatever, blah blah blah, 1055 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:09.719 any of these the two characters who are always on 1056 00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:13.760 the right side of history, Green Arrow and Lois Lane. 1057 00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:18.079 It's not necessarily a thing that we've seen with adaptations 1058 00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.039 of Green Arrow so far, so we want to talk 1059 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:24.960 about that. But like Lois Lane is in some ways 1060 00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.000 even more than Superman, like a beacon of what is 1061 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:35.039 true and righteous, right, and I I hope she gets 1062 00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:41.119 to be difficult and messy and eviscerate people who are 1063 00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:41.559 getting in. 1064 00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:44.360 Her way and in a different way. 1065 00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:49.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1066 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:49.199 Yeah, I think that's so vital on it. 1067 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:51.559 There was some other episode we've done, I remember which one, 1068 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:53.400 because we've had Jessica and talk about Superman a lot, 1069 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:55.679 for clearly very good reasons, because you're an authority and 1070 00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:57.840 have so much great to say. But there's one in 1071 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.880 which you described Lois as I was saying, like there's 1072 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:04.559 lowest does lowest hit into like negative stereotypes of the 1073 00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:07.599 damsel in distress? And I'm not gonna exactly quote you 1074 00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.239 don't mind the s words. What you basically said was 1075 00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.199 that she's not a damsel in distress. She's just a 1076 00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:14.679 person who already was a like damn the torpedoes, I'm 1077 00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:16.880 gonna do what I think is right, and now has 1078 00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.760 just developed this ridiculous sense of overconfidence of I don't 1079 00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:21.559 care what stupid risks I take, because this guy in 1080 00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.400 a cape is always gonna save me. So I'm going 1081 00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:25.119 to do anything and everything to get the story, And 1082 00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:29.400 who cares what happens, you know, and she's right, yeah, and. 1083 00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:30.280 Like that looked. 1084 00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:32.199 It can look like a damsel in distress if you're 1085 00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:34.199 not actually paying attention. But it really is so different, 1086 00:56:34.199 --> 00:56:36.920 and I hope that again this movie captures that attitude. 1087 00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:40.000 Yeah, I mean, there's the bit in I think it's 1088 00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:46.079 might only be in the the Donner edit of Superman two. 1089 00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:49.320 I can't remember where she jumps out the window because 1090 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:54.400 she's like, Superman will save me and he does. Yeah. 1091 00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.559 And then there's also the scene where she dives into 1092 00:56:57.639 --> 00:56:59.920 Niagara Falls, which I think is then final edit of them. 1093 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:04.079 I don't remember. She's jumping out of a lot of 1094 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:05.880 windows to prove a lot of things that happens on 1095 00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:15.480 My Adventures Superman too. It's it is not I mean, 1096 00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.760 it is foolhardiness, and I kind of like that, but 1097 00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:24.840 it was also absolute confidence both in her abilities, including 1098 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:27.880 her own mind, Like she knows that she's figured this 1099 00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:31.480 out right, she knows that she's read Superman right, she 1100 00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:34.199 knows what he will do and she's right. And it's 1101 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:36.159 also total faith in him right. 1102 00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:40.079 And it's not in the like oohho, my big shown 1103 00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:42.320 boyfriend will save me. It's very much like yeah, oh yeah. 1104 00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:44.280 My underlings are gonna make my coffee just right. My 1105 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:45.800 underlings are gonna drive me or I need to go, 1106 00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:47.159 and minder things are gonna save me when I fall 1107 00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:47.559 out window. 1108 00:57:48.039 --> 00:57:50.880 Jimmy gets her coffee and Clark catches her. Those are 1109 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:51.559 their jobs. 1110 00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:53.039 I love it. 1111 00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:55.559 And then the last thing is if you want to say, 1112 00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:57.719 if we're gonna go into some bonus member content, we're 1113 00:57:57.719 --> 00:57:59.320 gonna talk a little bit about some other stuff coming 1114 00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:02.519 up next year. Jessica's just written an article over on 1115 00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:04.440 book Riot that we will link you guys to and 1116 00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:06.119 give you a chance to check out, but also to 1117 00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:08.760 we'll talk about that also. Of course, if you want 1118 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:10.280 to become a member, it's only five dollars a month, 1119 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:13.079 fifty five dollars a year. We're talking about all sorts 1120 00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:14.920 of new things we're gonna start doing for members, including 1121 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:19.840 having your own bonus members bonus episodes, full episodes only 1122 00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:21.719 for members. We're gonna start with the first one this month, 1123 00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:24.800 so that's gonna be happening. Of course, you could add 1124 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:28.239 free episodes other kind of great things. But before we 1125 00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.360 do that, Riki, first, any of the last things you 1126 00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.480 want to say about this Superman trailer and this movie 1127 00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:32.880 coming out. 1128 00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:37.480 Yeah, I scrolled way down the cast list and I 1129 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:42.639 found a character listed that Jessica mentioned earlier, eve test Maker, 1130 00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:47.519 which is an interesting choice, a very Gunnion choice, if 1131 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.880 you will, because I think most this is Lex Luthor's 1132 00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:53.960 female assistant, and I feel like most modern incarnations of 1133 00:58:54.039 --> 00:59:00.000 luth Or have Mercy the bodyguard Valet sometimes like replacements 1134 00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:03.960 Ceo a Lex Score. So using test Maker is an 1135 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:06.719 interesting choice and I'm interested to see how it plays out. 1136 00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:10.079 Yeah, I agree, it's a very James gun choice. 1137 00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:12.800 Yeah, because test Maker is like Mercy Is. 1138 00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:16.519 I think you listed test Maker isss Testmcker is much 1139 00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.840 more like the nineteen fifties secretary type, ye, at least 1140 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:20.360 from what I know. 1141 00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:25.039 Yeah, And like they, she and Otis will often turn 1142 00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:28.119 up in the comics these days, a sort of easter eggs. 1143 00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:31.480 They're not really like characters who do a lot of stuff, 1144 00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:36.800 but like you know, if Lex's barking orders at somebody 1145 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:39.519 off panel, it's one of them, or like they might 1146 00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:43.000 be like where's the secret warehouse where Lex has the 1147 00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.800 Doom's Day device? Oh, it's on Otis Street. Like there's 1148 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.440 a lot ofway references like that, but you can't see 1149 00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:51.039 them in adaptations anymore. 1150 00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:53.679 And for me specifically, it's the she's listed, but I 1151 00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:56.159 can't find a casting for a Mercy, so it's like 1152 00:59:56.199 --> 00:59:58.800 it seemed that seems like a deliberate choice between the two. 1153 00:59:58.800 --> 00:59:59.199 Interesting. 1154 01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:01.840 Well, that'll be nice, because I mean, the main thing 1155 01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.199 I know her from is the Christopher Reevedonnner movies, in 1156 01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:06.280 which I would say she does not come out very well. 1157 01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:07.920 She instead, she's. 1158 01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:11.000 Like, oh, Superman's really cute, and my mother might I 1159 01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:13.199 think she's not like an aunt in California who's gonna 1160 01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:15.480 die in Lex Luthor's plan, And so she winds up 1161 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:19.679 betraying Lex to Superman and helps rescue him, and it's cute. 1162 01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:21.400 But it also seems motivated a lot by the fact 1163 01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:24.039 that you know, Christopher Reeves is a not bad looking guy, 1164 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:26.159 which I felt like, let's do a little more of 1165 01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:29.519 the character. So yeah, that'd be fun. All right, Well, 1166 01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:31.920 that thank you both so much. I've learned a lot, audience. 1167 01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:33.079 I hope you've learned a lot. We'd love to hear 1168 01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:34.480 what you think. Let us know your thoughts for the 1169 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:36.840 COmON movie. We'll definitely have Jessica back when the movie 1170 01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.920 comes out, but till then, thank you so much. 1171 01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:40.039 We have spoken