1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's me Stephanie Wilder Taylor. Welcome to Drunkish. 2 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:09,400 I wrote a book called Drunkish a couple of years 3 00:00:09,439 --> 00:00:13,199 ago where I told my sobriety story, and now this 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,120 is my podcast so I can hear other people's sobriety 5 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:20,600 stories and we can all heal together. Unless you're not 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,039 an alcoholic, and then you know you do you. Today's 7 00:00:24,039 --> 00:00:27,920 guest is Kate Anthony, and what a great guest she was. 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,440 She is the author of the book The D Word, 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,320 Making the Ultimate Decision about Your Marriage, and she has 10 00:00:34,359 --> 00:00:38,280 a hit podcast called The Divorce Survival Guide, which is 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,679 such an amazing tool for helping women decide whether to 12 00:00:41,719 --> 00:00:45,200 stay in their marriage or whether it's a tox successfool. 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:46,799 Speaker 2: Plus, she's a. 14 00:00:46,759 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: Sought after coach and she does group advice or one 15 00:00:50,439 --> 00:00:53,840 on one help to women, and you can find all 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,399 that information on her website Kateanthony dot com. But she 17 00:00:58,679 --> 00:01:00,280 is here right now. 18 00:01:15,719 --> 00:01:17,439 Speaker 2: And welcome to Drunkish. 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,239 Speaker 1: Kate. I'm so so excited. We were talking before we 20 00:01:21,359 --> 00:01:24,079 even before I hit record, because I don't know, I 21 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:25,840 feel like we have like friendship chemistry. 22 00:01:27,079 --> 00:01:31,799 Speaker 2: I'm well, we've been Facebook friends for years. Yeah, like 23 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,799 I don't even know how long, And yes, I one hundred. 24 00:01:35,799 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Agree because we have we have a mutual friend, our 25 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,400 friend Robin, and she was like, you should have Kate 26 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:44,439 on your other my other podcast, which is for Crying 27 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,959 Out Loud, because you're a divorce coach, and we thought 28 00:01:47,959 --> 00:01:51,560 that would be very fitting for we have a lot 29 00:01:51,599 --> 00:01:54,840 of a lot of married ladies or divorced ladies or 30 00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:57,680 going through divorced women on my other podcast for Crying 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,920 Out Loud. So you came on and it was a 32 00:02:01,079 --> 00:02:06,599 great interview and I think really helped my other podcast host, Lynnette. 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:07,159 Speaker 3: Yeah. 34 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: I think. So she was going through it, like you know, 35 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:15,319 when you're going through it, you're like, you know, there 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,919 was there was a lot, let's say, that she could 37 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,360 relate to in the stuff I was talking about. 38 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: So yeah, So, as I already said in the intro, though, 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,840 you have a very popular podcast, which is The Divorce 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,159 The Divorce Survival Guide is your podcast, and you've also 41 00:02:31,199 --> 00:02:34,360 written a book called The D Word, Making the Ultimate 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,759 Decision about your marriage. But you're also seven years sober. 43 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: I am almost almost seven, and I guess like in November, yeah, 44 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:50,159 mid November will be seven Okay, So god willing. Well, yeah, 45 00:02:50,199 --> 00:02:57,039 this doesn't make you. I really thanks. I have zero 46 00:02:57,159 --> 00:03:04,639 desire to drink zero, so yeah, zero, and I rarely 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,120 do once I once I stopped, I was, I mean, well, 48 00:03:10,759 --> 00:03:13,599 it took a while for me to get there. But 49 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,639 I really have never looked back. I really have never 50 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:18,199 looked back. 51 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: So tell me a little bit about your drinking. Didn't 52 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,120 start young and then get bad later, No, tell me everything, 53 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:26,800 Tell me everything. 54 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: So I'm not like your typical alcoholic. I've never I've 55 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,120 never identified as an alcoholic. I grew up with an 56 00:03:35,159 --> 00:03:38,479 alcoholic dad, surrounded I mean surround, I mean, of course, 57 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:42,879 surrounded by alcoholics. So I was always in the other program, 58 00:03:43,439 --> 00:03:47,400 and I was, and I went to a bazillion AA meetings. 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,599 My dad got sober when I was eighteen, So I 60 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:53,520 started going to AA meetings when I was pretty young 61 00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:55,560 to sort of see what all this was about, you know. 62 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:58,080 Then my best friend got sober. Then my other best 63 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,080 friend got sober. Right, So I've always been surrounded by alcoholics, 64 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,120 and I knew that like I was not. I just 65 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:13,360 never related to the AA version of I'm an alcoholic, right, 66 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:18,199 And I was never a drinker like my alcoholic friends 67 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,160 would always say, and I call them alcoholics because they 68 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,720 identify as alcoholics. But just to be clear, they always 69 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:28,800 will say to me, they would say, would say, you 70 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,120 were so annoying at parties because you would be you 71 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,279 would hold one beer for like six hours and we couldn't. 72 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,720 We were like, what the fuck is she doing? Why 73 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,680 isn't she drinking that beer? Right? Because they were obsessed 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,800 with it, right, And so I feel for them. Yeah, 75 00:04:48,319 --> 00:04:49,560 you would have done the same thing. You would have 76 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,040 been like, am is she holding that for you? I 77 00:04:51,079 --> 00:04:55,480 don't understand. I got there later, you know. But so 78 00:04:55,639 --> 00:04:56,759 I was never a drinker. 79 00:04:58,399 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: And then and can I have to ask you what 80 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:03,439 can I just dig a tiny bit deeper? But your 81 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,000 dad was an alcoholic while you were growing up and 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,279 then got sober. So was there and I hear this 83 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,040 a lot. Was there kind of a fear of like, oh, 84 00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:14,160 I don't want to drink like that? 85 00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:14,519 Speaker 4: No? 86 00:05:14,519 --> 00:05:18,079 Speaker 3: No, okay, no, because what's funny is that my dad's 87 00:05:18,439 --> 00:05:22,800 drug use was more in the forefront, right, So to me, 88 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,279 I didn't even when he was like I got sober, 89 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,800 I was like, huh, because I never saw alcohol as 90 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:30,519 being the problem. 91 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: I thought cocaine was the problem. I thought marijuana was 92 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:38,120 the problem. But then I was like, oh, right, every 93 00:05:38,199 --> 00:05:40,240 single time I see you, we're in a bar. Like 94 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,000 I was going to bars when I was eight years old, 95 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,160 spending a whole weekend in New York City Tribeca bars 96 00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:50,879 like grang GC bars. How I grew up, I would say, 97 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,160 I grew up in like a Wes Anderson movie on 98 00:05:54,199 --> 00:05:57,439 my mom's side and after hours on my dad's side. Wow, 99 00:05:57,639 --> 00:06:02,839 that's a good description. So I so yeah, it wasn't. 100 00:06:03,079 --> 00:06:07,040 I never touched cocaine ever because of my dad, and 101 00:06:07,079 --> 00:06:09,279 I like really didn't like weed because of my dad. 102 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:12,759 But Booze, I was like, I don't. I didn't identify 103 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,680 that as kind of being a problem for him, yeah, 104 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,319 or for me really as a child, I did identify 105 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,120 weed and cocaine as problems with my relationship with my dad. 106 00:06:26,879 --> 00:06:31,480 So he so yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't an avoidant thing. 107 00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:34,560 It wasn't like, oh God, I gotta be careful or 108 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,879 I don't like this. It was literally like I don't. 109 00:06:36,959 --> 00:06:42,120 This is gross. This stuff doesn't taste good. It really doesn't. 110 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,959 Speaker 4: I never really objectively doesn't right, Like it's if anything 111 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,079 like I think any grace says like if anything is 112 00:06:51,079 --> 00:06:57,600 an acquired taste, like probably it doesn't taste good, right, 113 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,279 it's probably gross, right right? 114 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,319 Speaker 2: So I uh, but and then you know, when I 115 00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:08,560 married my ex husband, he was sober. He was a 116 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,360 sober I mean like ding ding ding, he was sober. 117 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:16,079 We were twenty eight when we met. He was already 118 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,959 eight years sober. And that's when I started my alan 119 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,680 On journey, Like I you know, went into in because 120 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,639 I was like, everyone around me is an alcoholic. Maybe 121 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,720 I should do something about this. And so I did, 122 00:07:32,759 --> 00:07:35,439 and I dug really deeply into that program and spent 123 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,439 a long time working like a serious, like black belt 124 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:45,319 alan On program, which I know I'm not supposed to say, 125 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,920 but I also like I'm not I don't actively I'm 126 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:52,600 not actively in allen On anymore. So I can identify 127 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:53,680 that for myself. 128 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: I always feel like with anonymity, it's it's about mentioning 129 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:01,879 other people being in there. It's not like you're allowed 130 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:02,439 to say. 131 00:08:02,279 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: Anonymous at the level of press, radio, TV and film, 132 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:08,959 right right, like from the traditions, No no, no, no, no, 133 00:08:08,959 --> 00:08:11,160 absolutely not, but just from the I want to honor 134 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:13,879 the traditions, which is right that we're not supposed to do. 135 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,759 But we're still a traction. 136 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,319 Speaker 1: Not promotion. You're not We're not here speaking for any 137 00:08:19,519 --> 00:08:23,000 any program. I make that pretty clear, you know. 138 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:23,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. 139 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:25,759 Speaker 1: People, Yeah, if they want to get sober, they can 140 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,439 do There's a lot of ways to do it. 141 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm going to talk about that because I 142 00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:34,600 didn't do it the traditional sure a way. Right, So yes, 143 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,519 I'm glad you said that. It's I mean, it's true. 144 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,519 I just I just like to be mindful of like, 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,799 so anyway, Yeah, I went I went into ellen On 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,799 when I was like twenty eight, and I had like 147 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:50,559 an incredible double Winter sponsor who was like just I 148 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,919 mean I would call her and I would be bunch, 149 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:59,120 be great, what step are you on? Or anybody? 150 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: For anybody that I didn't know what a double winner is. 151 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,399 That that is somebody who identifies as an alcoholic and 152 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,000 has an alcoholic in their life that they're trying to 153 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:11,080 deal with. 154 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: Yes, so somebody who was you know, alan On and 155 00:09:14,919 --> 00:09:18,399 out right exactly. And you know they often say, I 156 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,240 don't know how much you go into this, Stephanie, but 157 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,320 you know they often say that alan On is graduate 158 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:29,639 school for alcoholics because it's the relationship program, right, It's like, 159 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,480 once the booze is gone, then we got to deal 160 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:36,759 with all this other shit. And so yeah, so she 161 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,000 was amazing. Amanda was amazing. She was like, you know, really, 162 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,759 I mean I was. I was deep in there for 163 00:09:42,879 --> 00:09:48,919 like a good ten to fifteen years and then I 164 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,039 so I was married to a sober alcoholics. I never 165 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,360 drank like I did not drink when I was married 166 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,320 because and we would have the same thing where we 167 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,960 would go out to dinner and I'd order a glass 168 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,519 of wine and it would sit there and he'd be like, 169 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:01,559 are you going to drink that. 170 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: Again? 171 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,799 Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly, He's like what are you doing? He's like, 172 00:10:10,799 --> 00:10:12,440 could you please chug it? Just make me feel better? 173 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,799 And chug it. Not that he cared about it being 174 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,919 on the table. He was just like, I don't understand. 175 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: But can I ask you a question? Mm hmmm, like 176 00:10:23,799 --> 00:10:26,480 what made you feel like you have to work really 177 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,519 hard at an alan On program? If he was sober 178 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,159 the whole time you met him, he was sober, it's. 179 00:10:34,039 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: A yeah, it's a great question. I mean I think, 180 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,200 oh dear, there were so many things he was sober 181 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,399 and he was also emotionally abusive. And I think a 182 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:53,720 lot of my alan On journey was trying to fix 183 00:10:53,799 --> 00:10:57,960 myself because he was telling me that there were all 184 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,720 these things wrong with me, right, and I cannsidered him. 185 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,559 We're evolved because he's been working a program for eight 186 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:07,279 years already, and he'll always I remember having this feeling 187 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,960 like he'll always be eight years ahead of me in 188 00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:17,159 growth and development, which is so what a sad thing 189 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,639 to think, right, And he certainly didn't sort of disavow 190 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,000 me of that belief, right. I think you very much 191 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,360 enjoyed that he So there was always this like, well, 192 00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:33,159 you know. And also, by the way, alan On is 193 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,639 not just for dealing with the alcoholic. Alan On is 194 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:43,720 for dealing with yourself, because I developed all of my 195 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:51,600 coping mechanisms, my relationship skills in the context of alcoholism, 196 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,279 and also my mother being an untreated alan On. Right, 197 00:11:54,639 --> 00:12:01,120 So we develop a lot of character traits and behaviors 198 00:12:01,879 --> 00:12:06,559 that have nothing to do with the alcoholic, sober or 199 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,480 not that you're living with. I mean, they are, you know, 200 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,840 sort of the I'm so articulate today, Stephanie. One of 201 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,039 the key sort of character traits right is control because 202 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,399 for people who were raised in an alcoholic home. Now 203 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:24,080 I was not raised in an alcoholic home because my 204 00:12:24,159 --> 00:12:29,679 dad was not there, But is this sort of this 205 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,279 control you're trying to control everything because when you grow 206 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,360 up in an alcoholic home, there's a lot of chaos 207 00:12:34,919 --> 00:12:38,120 and you don't know whether you know this, there's counting drinks, 208 00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:40,200 there's you don't know when the who's going to walk 209 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,759 in the door. So you're constantly trying to you know, 210 00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:48,720 backpedal or you're walking a egshelves right, And so you 211 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:51,200 develop all these character traits all by yourself that have 212 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,840 nothing to do with anyone else in your life. And 213 00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:58,519 so my journey in alan On was really about undoing 214 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,919 all of that and not being so controlling and not 215 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:07,960 believing that anything that my okayness had anything to do 216 00:13:08,039 --> 00:13:11,679 with the alcoholic or anyone else in my life. Learning 217 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:17,519 to become okay just by myself. And so if somebody 218 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,440 did something or didn't do something, or drank or didn't drink, 219 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,919 or was mean to me or cheated on me, like 220 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,200 I was okay, because before that I was not okay 221 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,320 on any level, right, Because unless you were okay, unless 222 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,679 you told me, I was okay. I had no sense 223 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,120 of self so regardless, So it didn't even matter that 224 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,039 he was sober, right, It was that I had all 225 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,279 of this stuff and he did not treat me well, 226 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:50,440 and I didn't have enough of a sense of self 227 00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:55,159 to say that's not okay. Actually, I choose to leave, right. 228 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,360 And one of the issues that I had in alan 229 00:13:59,399 --> 00:14:01,279 On is that, like, there's a lot of like it's 230 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,279 okay to love an alcoholic, which of course it is, 231 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,960 but it made me feel or I took it to 232 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:15,200 mean that, you know, I kind of had to stay 233 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,200 like there was a way to work through all of 234 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:23,519 these things. It didn't give me the sense that like, well, 235 00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:28,840 there's alcoholism and then there's asshole. Right, there's alcoholism, and 236 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:32,000 there are short maybe character traits and defects and all 237 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120 of those things. But then there's also emotional abuse, which 238 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:41,919 is something completely different from the alcoholism. And I was 239 00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:45,559 never really able to discern those things. 240 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: You've said. And this is sort of off topic here, 241 00:14:51,639 --> 00:14:55,360 but I think it's relevant because in a clip of 242 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:59,960 you on a different podcast, you were talking about couples 243 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:07,240 therapy uh not being appropriate for actual abuse, because that's 244 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:10,559 that's the other person's issue. They need therapy. 245 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: But this is a thing I think. 246 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,039 Speaker 1: Especially with women, is no matter what's happening, we feel like, 247 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,399 let me just try to fix myself, let me try 248 00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:19,440 to improve. 249 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,519 Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, yes, one hundred percent. And when you're in 250 00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:26,840 an abusive relationship, you're constantly being told that you're the problem, 251 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:30,039 and that any problem that you have is just because 252 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,440 well if you would just and I and the goalpost 253 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,840 is constantly moving, but you're gonna you're aiming for it, 254 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,679 it doesn't matter, like, oh, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna 255 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,519 modulate my voice this way, and i'm gonna talk in 256 00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:44,840 this way, and i'm gonna, you know, rush up to 257 00:15:44,879 --> 00:15:46,879 you when you come into a party because that's what 258 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:50,799 you want. And I'm gonna be more effusive because that's 259 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,039 what will make you feel better. But oh now I'm 260 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:57,399 being an authentic Okay, wait now, I'll do it this way, right. 261 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:02,399 And it's fucking crazy making, right, it's crazy making, and 262 00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:07,039 it's and it's not that's not the problem, right. The 263 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:13,519 problem is that this person is well, doesn't love you. Right. 264 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:16,240 I was constantly trying to get him to love me, 265 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,600 please love me. See me for who I am. Don't 266 00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:23,039 you see me? And then but then I saw myself 267 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,519 less and less and less and less, and then I 268 00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:29,080 was this empty shell of a person. But we are, 269 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:33,799 we are taught women in particular right, like, well, let's 270 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,279 do this work. I mean like something like seventy five 271 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,799 percent of personal development work is consumed by women, except 272 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:47,279 for the like pro productivity hacking and biohacking and whatever, 273 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,120 which really has nothing to do with relation, relational anything. 274 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: It has to do with making money. 275 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: It has to do with making money, and like optimizing 276 00:16:58,159 --> 00:17:02,360 your body to stay around longer, to continue to be dominant. 277 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,039 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes, I feel like so anyway in a 278 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,559 spiral him No, but I was going to say that again, 279 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,000 this doesn't have a lot to do with alcoholism, but 280 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:16,440 not that you're an alcoholic. 281 00:17:16,519 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm just saying it doesn't have to do with them. 282 00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:22,200 But it's it's hitting home for me in the way 283 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,599 of I believe that a lot of women who grow 284 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,839 up in any kind of chaotic environment, be it whether 285 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,319 it's with alcoholism or drug addiction or just emotional abuse, 286 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:41,240 tend to find men where or women whatever your relationship is, 287 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,559 where you have to prove where you have to try 288 00:17:43,559 --> 00:17:47,279 to get them to love you. And I find that 289 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,759 with a lot of my friends who have had similar 290 00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:53,759 upbringings to me, that we tend to pick men, but 291 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,839 we have to prove ourselves too. 292 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely, And it's. 293 00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: My husbanding my husband. I just just want to make 294 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,440 this just clarify. It was the first break in that 295 00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:11,640 cycle for me, though. Every person leading up to him, 296 00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:14,599 and he was my husband, was kind of boring to 297 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,960 me at first because he just he was consistent and 298 00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:24,759 normal and just liked me. And I found that so distasteful, right. 299 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:31,319 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, what's interesting. So I recently got engaged, So 300 00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:33,720 just to clarify, I have been divorced for sixteen years 301 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,839 and I didn't date for eight eight of the last years. 302 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,839 I was like, I am so done, and through a 303 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,880 series of events, my friends were like, you have to 304 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,880 try again. This is ridiculous, and I did and I 305 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,240 met this incredible man who I've now engaged to. And 306 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,839 he's so consistent and he's so loving and he absolutely 307 00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:01,240 adores me. And I'll tell you what, even years ago, 308 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,839 certainly eight years ago, certainly before I got sober, right, 309 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:11,680 I never ever would have I would have been like ew, 310 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:20,240 go away, right, not attractive, not interesting, And now I like, 311 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,160 oh my god, I just like I relish it. It's so amazing. 312 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,400 And I feel the same way about him, but like, 313 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,119 oh my god, it's like it's so incredible. There's no 314 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:40,359 drama like zero, there's it's just always consistent and fun, 315 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:43,960 you know, and goofy. Yeah, And I feel and in that. 316 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,200 What's really interesting to me is that in that space, 317 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,599 and I do think sobriety has a lot to do 318 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:57,039 with us. In this container of safety and love and 319 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:03,119 consistency and steadfast business, I am able to like relax 320 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:10,039 into more of my full being and I am able 321 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:13,480 to be more of myself than I've ever been in 322 00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:18,359 a relationship and also by myself right Like I like, 323 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,279 I'm I'm expanding into all of these facets of myself 324 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:31,759 totally goofy, totally like ridiculous, silly like in ways and 325 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,519 passionate and all of these things that I just didn't 326 00:20:35,559 --> 00:20:41,160 really know that I possessed because he just like holds 327 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,359 this container of complete unconditional adoration of me and vice versa, 328 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:52,039 and it's fucking wild. That's it's crazy, but you know, 329 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,039 but you have to. I did have to be ready 330 00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:56,119 for it. I definitely had to be sober for it. 331 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,799 Speaker 1: So drinking pick up. Yeah, so you're in this marriage. 332 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:02,039 How long were you married to this? 333 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: So you know we were together for ten years? We 334 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:13,680 were married for five which let's also like, let's look 335 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,160 at that we were together, we were living together. I 336 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,599 had to give him an ultimatum for marriage. You know, 337 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:25,079 we started dating at twenty eight. I hit thirty thirty one, 338 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,119 thirty two, I'm like, like, are we doing this or not? 339 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,519 Did I just waste five years? And I had to 340 00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:34,160 give him an ultimatum Like that man did not choose me, 341 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,480 nor did he let me go, and nor did I 342 00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:42,759 push him away? Right, Like lots of responsibility, but like 343 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,559 like you're we were together for five years and I 344 00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:48,720 had to give him an ultimatum. Like that's sad, No 345 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:52,720 one should have to do that. But anyway, I digress. 346 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:56,279 So we were together for ten years. We have an 347 00:21:56,279 --> 00:22:00,920 amazing son. He's now twenty, and I should say that 348 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,160 he and I are very good friends. Now. He has 349 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:08,480 done a lot of work on himself. He has come 350 00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:12,039 to terms with how abusive he was. He was also 351 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,359 chronically unfaithful and he has come to terms with all 352 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,799 of that and you know, joined other programs to deal 353 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:24,359 with all of that stuff. So you know, as he 354 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,079 has continued to do the work, we have developed a 355 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,279 very close friendship and I deeply respect the level of 356 00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:36,000 work that he has done to really change who he 357 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:42,039 is in relationship and he's great now. So but so 358 00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:44,319 we were in the butt as we were in this marriage. 359 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:50,599 I was suffocating in misery and there was It was 360 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,799 really when I got divorced, when I finally got out, 361 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,400 that is when I started drinking. When I started hanging 362 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,079 out with girlfriends on play dates. Well, first of all, 363 00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:04,960 I remember going one of our first playdates when Emmett 364 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:08,200 was really little. He was like one or he was 365 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,559 maybe two, and my friend, my girlfriend, brought over a 366 00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:16,920 bottle of wine for the play date and I was like, wait, 367 00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:21,279 you can do that, and she goes, yeah, you have 368 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,599 to do that, right Mommy. Wine culture right there started 369 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,599 and I was like, oh my god, we drink on 370 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,000 play dates? How fun? And that was kind of where 371 00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:39,160 it started. And what happened was as I got divorced, 372 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,440 I was doing more and more play dates on my own, 373 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,599 and I was I mean, really My drinking ramped up 374 00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:52,720 in my early years of parenting. And it sickens me 375 00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:55,680 to say this, like it's sick, it makes me want 376 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,279 to throw up, But it really was. It was playdates. First, 377 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:02,039 it was we would share one bottle of wine. Then 378 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:03,839 we were like, well that's not enough. Then we would 379 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,920 share two bottles of wine. Then we would go to 380 00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:08,039 like ree I mean you know, and then I would 381 00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:09,880 get in the fucking car with my child by the way, 382 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:17,079 and drive so really awful, really disgusting. But I think 383 00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:20,839 what was happening was I was so excited to be 384 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,720 out of my marriage. I was very like when I 385 00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:29,519 got out, I was having parties, I was drinking, I 386 00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:32,079 was having fun, I was going out, I was dating, 387 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,359 I was having sex. Like I was living my very 388 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,920 very best life and not dealing with any of the 389 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,079 emotional fallout and the feelings. I was like, whoa, I'm free, 390 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,400 I'm done right. And then over time, this like thing 391 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:53,640 starts come creeping in. All of the trauma we now 392 00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:57,319 understand is trauma. Back then, we weren't talking about it 393 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,319 like this. Sixteen years ago. We were not having the 394 00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:02,640 conversations about trauma the way we are now, and all 395 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,359 of the trauma was creeping in. I was like, la 396 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,920 la la la, la la la, drink drink, drink, drink, right, 397 00:25:08,839 --> 00:25:12,680 And so over the course of ten years, I was 398 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,920 my drinking was increasing, and as I hit perimenopause, I 399 00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:25,319 was drinking every single day and it would either be 400 00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:28,839 you know, sometimes a half a bottle, sometimes a bottle 401 00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:32,559 of wine. Then in perimenopause, the wine was really not 402 00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:34,680 like agree with my system. So I was like, well, 403 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,119 I should definitely start drinking you know, vodka or tequila 404 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,359 better for you, or whiskey because it's because yeah, it's 405 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,400 what doesn't interacts as poorly with the hormones, and it's 406 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,000 you know, it's cleaner, so it's much better for you. 407 00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:53,279 Speaker 1: And you don't have to drink as much of it, 408 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,119 you know, that's that's the good news. 409 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: You could just do shots, uh huh, right, yeah, uh huh. 410 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,039 So then it would be like, you know, two or 411 00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:06,400 three whiskeys and they would get like a little bigger, 412 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,119 you know, I mean. And I was like, and this 413 00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:12,480 was be mostly at home by this point, and it 414 00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,599 was older, we weren't doing as many playdates or whatever. 415 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,039 So I was like drinking a loter home every single night, 416 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,000 hard liquor everything during this time. 417 00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: Were you seeing this in yourself where you like, this 418 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,920 is not good, let me try to stop. Were you 419 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:27,160 doing any kind of trying to moderate. 420 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:34,319 Speaker 2: You know, I think there were no. I was not. 421 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,680 I was very much enjoying it. Okay, it was very 422 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:42,279 much enjoying it up up to a point. Then there 423 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:47,680 came a point where, quick, quick, I didn't realize did 424 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,920 you have were there any consequences like even doing the 425 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,519 play dates? 426 00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: Did you ever did you ever drive home and go, 427 00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:56,680 oh shit, I shouldn't have been I really shouldn't have 428 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,200 been driving. 429 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:03,039 Speaker 2: Oh all the time, time, all the time. I would 430 00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:05,119 wake up in a yes, So what I what would 431 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,680 happen is I would wake up at three o'clock in 432 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,200 the morning, as you do because of the alcohol and 433 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,480 the hormones and the you know, adrenaline hitting your system. 434 00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:18,920 I would wake up at three o'clock in the morning, 435 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,039 and then I would have this like incredible shame of like, 436 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,160 holy fuck, I can't believe I drove. I can't believe 437 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,160 I drove my child that like I was door runk. 438 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,319 If I had been pulled over, I would have been 439 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,799 had it I definitely would have gotten a DUI. I 440 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,720 probably and I would have had my child taken away 441 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,960 from me. Like that's where we were at. But I 442 00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:45,319 was still like, oh, I shouldn't do that right like this, 443 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,640 the shame was still like it wasn't deep yet, got it. 444 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,079 It was definitely a like ooh girl, yeah, let's not 445 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,119 do that again. And then you know, cut to next 446 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,839 week we're doing it again, or we should do it 447 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,599 at my house, or like let's have a play date 448 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,559 to Natra this time. Like I'm not going to drink 449 00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,039 this week or I'm not gonna you know, or I 450 00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:08,519 would do Whole thirty and so like I can't drink 451 00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:12,119 for a month, but like by day like fourteen, I'm 452 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,720 like I can have like vodka. Vodka's clean on Whole thirty. 453 00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:23,759 There's no sugar. That's fine. So yeah, I mean, just 454 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:27,799 looking back on it, it's like, wow, sometimes it really 455 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,319 it really does. Like when you start to pick through it, 456 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,319 you know, it's not it's not cute. 457 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,039 Speaker 1: One of the things about you know, being in a program, 458 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:41,880 I guess, is that you do tend to because I 459 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,920 definitely tended to while I was drinking. Go, it wasn't 460 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,400 that it's not that bad. But when I got sober, 461 00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:54,759 I only remembered a couple of the big instances where 462 00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:57,279 it was that bad. But through doing some of the 463 00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:59,839 work of that program and writing it all down, I 464 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,000 was like, it's much harder to fool yourself into going 465 00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:07,400 like it wasn't that bad, because when it's like it 466 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,960 was a game of comparing myself, like I'm not bad 467 00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:15,240 enough to need meetings, I'm not bad enough to like make. 468 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: This a forever thing. 469 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:16,759 Speaker 3: I'm not. 470 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: But once I really took a look at my whole history, 471 00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:23,920 I was like, oh, yeah, it's noth was that great? 472 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so you know, so I'm glad you said 473 00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:30,920 that because one of the things that happened around It's 474 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,279 funny because it was really early on I think around 475 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,200 I hadn't gone off of wine. I was in a 476 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,119 relationship with somebody who later got sober. Surprise, surprise. We 477 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,640 drank a lot of white wine. He drank like cheap chardenay, 478 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,680 that's like his was his drink of choice, and so 479 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,400 we drank a lot of that. And I would have 480 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:54,960 these emotional roller coasters and I would be like, I 481 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,680 need to quit drinking. I think maybe I have a problem. 482 00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:02,039 I feel like I feel like there's something wrong. I 483 00:30:02,079 --> 00:30:03,839 feel like I have a problem. And then I would 484 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,960 call my alcoholic friends and be like, take me to 485 00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:07,839 a meeting. I really don't feel I feel like there's 486 00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:12,200 something wrong, and they'd be like, you know, come on, 487 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,640 and so then I'd be like, no, I don't know. 488 00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:16,480 And then I would go to an AA meeting and 489 00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:18,480 I would sit there and be like, I don't relate 490 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,440 to these stories, and so I and my friends would 491 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,039 be like, yeah, you're not an alcoholic. So I'd be like, Okay, 492 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,359 I guess I can keep drinking then, right, right, because 493 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,160 I don't relate to the stories that I've heard for 494 00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:40,039 decades in many meetings in many cities, right, Like, I 495 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:46,559 don't relate to the you know, the alcoholic experience as 496 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:50,240 you see most often in the rooms of AA. Right. 497 00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:53,839 Speaker 1: We've made it such a black and white thing, and 498 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,640 I'm glad that. 499 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: I'm glad that. 500 00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:58,799 Speaker 1: And even a podcast like this has hit at a 501 00:30:58,839 --> 00:31:02,200 time where were much more accepting of all different levels 502 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,599 of like, if you want to not drink, like it's 503 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,160 a valid choice, regardless of whether you're fit into this 504 00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:13,160 box of what you think alcoholism is exactly I call 505 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,319 it alcoholism because because it needs to be really black 506 00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:19,160 and white for me, I need to not drink. I 507 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,759 need to have no wiggle room because and by the way, 508 00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,759 I've tried, like I've tried many times before, I got 509 00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:28,119 sober this time, but yeah, I just think I was. 510 00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: I was also. 511 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,559 Speaker 1: Really caught up in that, like, well, I'm not that, 512 00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:36,279 so I can't be I can't be this. I it 513 00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:38,960 doesn't make sense for me to just never drink again. 514 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,200 And I bought into like people my friends too, being like, 515 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,160 you're being too hard on. 516 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:47,599 Speaker 2: Yourself, right right, because they don't want you to stop 517 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,720 drinking because because it's fun. Yeah, so you know, I so. 518 00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,039 But but the alcoholics were like, yeah, you're not an alcoholic. 519 00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,160 This is ridiculous, right, And I'd be like, okay, so 520 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,160 I guess if I'm an elk. If I'm not that, 521 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,400 then I'm it's fine. But I don't have to worry 522 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,640 and I can just keep drinking. And so, like another 523 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,960 many years went by, and I that relationship, that that 524 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:22,359 very alcoholic relationship was very devastating. White wine Guy, very devastating, 525 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,319 very very toxic, the most toxic relationship I've ever had 526 00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:28,240 in my life, and it was it did a number 527 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:31,799 on me for many, many years, and so I think 528 00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:40,160 I went deeper into the into my drinking. And at 529 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:48,680 a certain point, I around twenty seventeen eighteen, I think, 530 00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:52,000 I what year are we in? Now We're in twenty 531 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,240 twenty five. Yeah, so I was twenty eighteen. I think 532 00:32:54,279 --> 00:32:59,920 that I got sober. I was like, this has to 533 00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:03,759 there's something wrong. And I but I'm not an alcoholic, 534 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,559 but I can't stand what I'm doing to myself. But 535 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,559 I'm not never gonna not drink again. That's ridiculously And 536 00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:13,599 then their little voice in my head was like, if 537 00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:18,440 you're that concerned about never drinking again, then like maybe 538 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,440 that's a problem, you know, because someone who does not 539 00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,960 have a problem and be like okay, fine, you know. 540 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,799 But I was like, you're gonna tell me I can 541 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:33,519 never drink again? Like fuck all the way off. So 542 00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:35,880 and there was a little voice inside my head that 543 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,119 was like, maybe that's part of the problem. And I 544 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,839 was looking for ways and like then it got to 545 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,200 the point where every single day, and this probably lasted 546 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,480 a year, every single day I would wake up and say, Okay, 547 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:56,039 I'm done I'm not doing this. I cannot do this anymore. 548 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,759 And by four o'clock, three o'clock, my anxiety levels would 549 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,440 be so fucking high that I could barely function, and 550 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,039 the only thing that would help would be a drink, 551 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,960 whether that was wine or booth. Usually at that point 552 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,559 we were, you know, into the harder stuff, just to 553 00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:26,119 take the edge off, right, and then the night would happen. 554 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,840 It would just then it would be one, two, three, 555 00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:32,440 and then I would, you know, go to bed, pass 556 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,840 out whatever, wake up at three o'clock in the morning 557 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,559 when the adrenaline would hit my system, and oh, usually 558 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,639 throughout the evening. Then I'd be miserable, crying, an emotional 559 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:48,800 just basket case. Then I would wake up at three 560 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,440 o'clock in the morning in a shame spiral. What's wrong 561 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,599 with you? Why do you keep doing this? You have 562 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,039 to stop? This is crazy. Wake up in the morning, Okay, 563 00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:58,960 I'm not going to do it. And then by three 564 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,199 o'clock the anxiety was so high that I had to 565 00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,039 do it. And this went on for a year, and 566 00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,280 I was I was, I was desperate. And then I 567 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,760 would be out with my friends and they would be 568 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,760 like and I'd be like, no, I don't want to drink, 569 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,880 like I don't feel right. It's just then they'd be 570 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,199 like why, what's like? And I was sure that everybody 571 00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:19,599 else was really knew that I that I had a 572 00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:24,519 problem or thought I was an alcoholic or whatever. And 573 00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:29,039 they were like, no, like you drink like we drink. 574 00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:32,639 And I'm like, I drink like you drink when we're together, 575 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,880 but I'm also doing that like when we're away for 576 00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:39,920 like a girl's weekend, but I'm also doing it every day, right, 577 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,079 And also I don't feel good. Also I feel like 578 00:35:43,079 --> 00:35:50,480 I'm going crazy. And and then again went to a 579 00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:54,119 couple of AA meetings and I was like, I don't 580 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,639 relate to this the story, Like I just I have 581 00:35:57,679 --> 00:35:59,559 not been drinking since I was a child. I am 582 00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:02,400 not like. This was not something that I felt like, 583 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,559 I don't know. I just I was like I was 584 00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:11,519 searching for help. And then I don't remember who recommended 585 00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:19,159 Annie Grace's book This Naked Mind, but I was like, okay, Vine, okay, Vine, 586 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,039 And I read it and I was like, oh, oh, 587 00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:27,880 and have you talked do you? Have you talked about 588 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,880 this on the show? This book? So she basically breaks 589 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,480 it down as to like the science why you're like 590 00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:42,239 that alcohol is a poison, it's a carcinogen, that it 591 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:48,039 becomes addictive to pretty much everybody over time. That the 592 00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:51,000 emotional highs and lows that I was going through is 593 00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:55,039 actually the body's hormonal system trying to regulate itself and 594 00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:58,239 sometimes overshooting the mark. I thought when I woke up 595 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,800 at three o'clock in the morning that it was because 596 00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:04,920 I was it was the sugar. I thought it was 597 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,400 the sugar from the alcohol, And it turns out it's not. 598 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,800 It's that when you've been pushing pumping your body full 599 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,760 of a depressant and you go so low, your body 600 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,400 shoots it through full of adrenaline and cortisol stress hormones 601 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,880 to like bring it back up, but it overshoots the 602 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,400 mark and then you're hit with a shot of adrenaline 603 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,280 at three o'clock in the morning, and that's why you 604 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,920 like you wake up and you literally can't go back 605 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,679 to sleep because your body's like right, and that the 606 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,480 come down later in the afternoon and the depression is 607 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,039 the body coming off of that, and that like the 608 00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:44,760 emotional roller coasters that I thought alcohol was fixing, Alcohol 609 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,960 was actually causing. And she talks a lot about how, 610 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,960 you know, a lot of people. She doesn't detigrate aa 611 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,800 at all, but she does talk about how like some 612 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,320 people don't relate to that, and then they're told that 613 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,119 don't they don't have a problem like me, and then 614 00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:02,960 they keep drinking like me when it's like, alcohol is 615 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,360 the problem, right, alcohol can just be the problem without 616 00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:10,440 it being you or anything like that. And so there 617 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,800 was something so liberating about it. I was like, Oh, 618 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,440 there's a whole other way that I can look at 619 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:24,679 this that's more scientific, right, that like actually I related 620 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,320 to and somehow just kind of gave me license to 621 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:35,400 be like, Okay, I surrender, like and and she says 622 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,039 she has this thing called the alcohol experiment, which is like, 623 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,519 just try it for thirty days, right, just try it 624 00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,719 and see how you feel. And I but what I 625 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:48,440 when I quit, it was a very planned out I 626 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,519 am now quitting, I'm done. And I remember having I 627 00:38:53,559 --> 00:38:56,639 was like, Okay, I'm going out with my friends this night, 628 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,559 so that'll be my last night, and then starting on 629 00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,239 Saturday morning, that's it. And I just made a very 630 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:09,440 conscious decision I was done. And once I did that, 631 00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:11,599 like I remember that night, I was like, well, this 632 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,079 is it my last hurrah, and I thought I would 633 00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:17,679 like and I just didn't want it. I just didn't 634 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,400 want it. Like I had two SIPs and I was like, 635 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,159 I'm done. And it was kind of as simple as that. 636 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:36,719 I was just done. And I want to say it 637 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,400 was like as simple as that, it was easy. It 638 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:44,519 wasn't easy because what ended up happening was it was 639 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:48,400 easy for me to not drink. I literally never looked 640 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,840 back in terms of like oh God, oh God, I 641 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,480 need a drink, or I want to drink, I want 642 00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:54,320 I just did not want to drink. Ever again, I 643 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,639 felt I was so fucking over it. And I finally 644 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,599 understood that the reason I felt all the ways that 645 00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:03,119 I did was because of this thing that was poisoning 646 00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:09,559 me and I not just that I couldn't handle it. 647 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,440 That like alcohol itself is like because I think that 648 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,559 what I thought up until that point was that alcohol 649 00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:20,480 itself is not a problem, it's me in relation to it. 650 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,880 And then when I was like, no, it's actually it's 651 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,079 actually the booze, it's actually this thing that's a poison 652 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,960 it just it freed me up to be like I 653 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,079 don't ever want to do that again. But then I 654 00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:41,920 had to deal with this tidal wave of grief and 655 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,760 trauma that I had been suppressing for ten years since 656 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,480 my divorce. And that's where the shit got real, you know, 657 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,639 and where it got again not hard to not drink, 658 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:06,519 but really hard two be like present, sober with all 659 00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:07,119 this shit. 660 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: During this time when it, you know, leading up to 661 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,559 quitting drinking. Did your son ever comment on your drinking 662 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,199 or never? Never? 663 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 2: Never, Nope, he would say when he was little, he's like, 664 00:41:23,039 --> 00:41:26,280 oh and you have wine, you get louder and you 665 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,039 laugh a lot more. But he never commented on it. 666 00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:32,639 He never said he never saw it. Is that like 667 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,679 he was like, yeah, this is just normal. It's like 668 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,920 grown up, grown up drink wine when they get together. 669 00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:41,559 But dad doesn't raize alcoholic right yeah, but because he's 670 00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:46,960 an alcoholic, right right right? So yeah, I mean even 671 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,880 now I'll ask him, I'm like, did you And he's like, no, 672 00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:53,000 I didn't think you had a problem at all. Interesting, 673 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,360 so I probably hit it well. 674 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: So then you get sober, you're having all these feelings, 675 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,440 but you and that there was never a time you 676 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,320 were like, uh, be so nice to have a glass 677 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,199 of wine to just check out. 678 00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 2: No, and that's weird. I really didn't. I really did not. 679 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,960 I I mean I did not go out anymore. I 680 00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:19,239 was like, oh, so much of my life revolves around, 681 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,360 you know, going to bouro. My social life revolves around alcohol, 682 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,480 and a lot of the people that I hung out 683 00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:28,199 with obviously their lives revolved around alcohol. And so I 684 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,280 was like, I can't do any of those things, and 685 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,519 maybe I can't see those people, and maybe I need 686 00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:37,599 to just like whoop, like hunker down and you know, 687 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,800 just sort of batten down the hatches for a bit. 688 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,440 And I did. But yeah, I never felt like, oh man, 689 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,880 I sure love to drink right now. 690 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,519 Speaker 1: And how are your friends, especially your drinking buddy friends, 691 00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:55,039 how did they take you not drinking anymore? 692 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 2: They were wonderful. I you know, I have heard so 693 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,559 many stories of people being such assholes to their friends 694 00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:06,840 who quit drinking because it challenges them, because they're like, 695 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,760 if you have a problem, then you know, what does 696 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,320 that say about me? And they don't want to know 697 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,400 about that, right all of these things. My friends were like, 698 00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:21,920 if you feel like shit, then like, okay, I support you. 699 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,639 What do we need to do? And one of my 700 00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:30,760 you know, sort of chronic drinking buddies ended up quitting 701 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,880 drinking a few months after me, so that was really fun. 702 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,800 But you know, people like our mutual friend Robin, our 703 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,440 friend Kate, she was one of my biggest drinking buddies. 704 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,639 And you know, Robin would come over every once in 705 00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:47,519 a while to like, you know, go out with us, 706 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:51,039 but not as often because she doesn't live very close 707 00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:53,280 to us. But Kate and I a couple of times 708 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,840 a week we were out and we were drinking, and 709 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,679 you know, we have a friendship beyond that, and she 710 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,920 was like, I support you, I love you. Whatever you need, 711 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:08,000 I'm here for you. Let's go have dinner. Oh yeah, yeah, 712 00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:13,679 I have good friends. I didn't I never felt like, yeah, 713 00:44:14,199 --> 00:44:16,679 I didn't lose any friendships when I got sober. 714 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,599 Speaker 1: So what about dating, because that can be really challenging 715 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,320 dating sober sober sex, like you had to go into track. 716 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,199 And also, I'm going to combine this with another topic 717 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,800 which I know you are familiar with. But a lot 718 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,760 of times when we leave a toxic relationship, like the 719 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,000 next one, you know, it's we follow patterns. Oh yeah, 720 00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,920 and the next one's also toxic and so how did 721 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,039 you break your breaking your cycle with drinking your breaking, 722 00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,840 and by cycle, I mean your habitual. This is how 723 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,480 I deal with stuff. Yeah, and so how did you 724 00:44:56,519 --> 00:44:58,159 know you probably have to change a lot of things 725 00:44:58,159 --> 00:44:58,880 at the same time. 726 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:05,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I did. Uh. So what's interesting is that 727 00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:10,760 I got sober ultimately in what became my eight year 728 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,920 dry spell. Right. So, I hadn't dated for eight years 729 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,840 when I met my fiancee Ethan, and I was sober 730 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,880 for like just over six So I did not date. 731 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,320 I was like, I didn't I think, I didn't know 732 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,639 how how I think. I went on a few dates 733 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,400 and but yeah, I used to be all my dates 734 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:45,360 were drunk, all of them, I would So I went 735 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,159 on a few dates, and I was much more loveable, 736 00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,360 headed and clear about like oh I like this person 737 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,880 or oh this I don't like this person? Right, And 738 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:57,960 I felt much more in control of my environment and myself. 739 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:01,519 But I really I didn't want to be then. I 740 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:05,000 just didn't really want to even go down that road anymore. 741 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,480 There was something about sort of coming home to myself 742 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:14,320 and taking away all of stripping myself of all of 743 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,559 the barriers that then I was like, I don't I 744 00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:20,960 don't really need this. I don't really want this. I 745 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,800 don't because I think I was dating for years from 746 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,440 a place of save me, save me, save me, And 747 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:36,039 I think once I saved myself from drinking and this 748 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:42,119 sort of checked out life that I was living, I 749 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,880 didn't need anyone to save me anymore. I finally I 750 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,719 saved myself at a very core level. And then I 751 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,719 went through this process of dealing with the trauma, dealing 752 00:46:53,760 --> 00:47:01,480 with the grief. I ended up going away to a 753 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:07,440 a trauma recovery program. Oh wow, impatient. Yeah, because I 754 00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:09,960 was getting hit by everything. My ex husband was also 755 00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:14,599 like repeating patterns in his second marriage. He was cheating, 756 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,360 he was doing all the things. And it was like, 757 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,719 now I'm sober, Now I'm not in the marriage. Now 758 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,320 I can see really clearly. Oh actually, all the things 759 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,440 that I thought were my fault in our marriage, actually 760 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,639 he's doing them again. And oh wait, it wasn't me 761 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,239 at all. It was it was him. It was the relationship. 762 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,119 It was all of the things I thought. And I 763 00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:37,000 get hit with this again, full title wave of a 764 00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:40,840 realization of all of the shit that had happened in 765 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,840 my marriage, and got really clear because I didn't know 766 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,400 he had been cheating on me as much like I 767 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,920 really didn't know when we were I was so checked out, 768 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,079 I didn't realize that that's what was happening. And when 769 00:47:57,159 --> 00:47:59,679 I saw him repeating the patterns in his second marriage, 770 00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:01,719 I was like, oh my God, and I and it 771 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,079 was like I got smacked by all of this stuff 772 00:48:04,079 --> 00:48:06,079 and I couldn't function. I was in a free state 773 00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:08,159 for like a week straight. I could not get out 774 00:48:08,159 --> 00:48:12,400 of it. So I went away. I went away to recovery, 775 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,119 and that was incredibly healing. And so I was doing 776 00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:22,400 all of this healing work on myself, this emotional healing work. 777 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,559 Once I got the physical stuff out of the way, 778 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,400 I really wasn't interested in dating for a long time. 779 00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:34,920 And in terms of like repeating toxic patterns, like yes, 780 00:48:35,119 --> 00:48:37,519 like like I said, like that relationship that I had 781 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,920 three a four years post divorce was white wine Guy 782 00:48:44,039 --> 00:48:46,159 was the most toxic relationship I've ever had in my life. 783 00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:51,840 He damaged me far more than my husband ever did. 784 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,559 And I did not think I was going to recover 785 00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:57,719 from that. So, you know, I just had a lot 786 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,079 of work to do on myself and to get to 787 00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:05,599 a point where if I was going to choose someone, 788 00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:08,119 I was going to do it from a place of recovery, 789 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:15,159 from like a healed place, from a place of I want, 790 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,519 not I need and I needed. I wanted to choose 791 00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:23,320 somebody who was gonna bring something to my life and 792 00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:25,800 wing to enhance it. And in order to do that, 793 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,119 I had to create like a really fucking kick ass 794 00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:33,280 life that I loved, that I was interested in bringing 795 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,960 someone into, but that I would be totally really fine 796 00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:42,679 if I if I never did. I love that. 797 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,159 Speaker 1: I think it's great. So you know, before we go, 798 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,280 tell me how you got into I mean, you took 799 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,280 all this healing, and now you help other women heal, yeah, 800 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,000 from their toxic relationships. Like how long after you quit 801 00:49:57,079 --> 00:49:58,119 drinking did you go? 802 00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:58,519 Speaker 4: Oh? 803 00:49:58,599 --> 00:50:00,519 Speaker 1: I want to I want to give this back to people. 804 00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:02,519 I want to help people get out of their marriages 805 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,280 or figure. 806 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,119 Speaker 2: Out of things. I had been doing it all along. 807 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,719 So I started my business in like twenty twelve. So 808 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,320 I had been doing it all along. I will tell 809 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:22,119 you that my business did not start becoming as successful 810 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:27,159 as it is now until I got sober, did the work, 811 00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:33,599 and was really living authentically aligned with my message. Right, 812 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,679 I was actually practicing what I preached, and I don't 813 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:42,480 preach sobriety, but I certainly talk a lot about healing 814 00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:47,920 and being present with oneself and being having this emotional 815 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:53,360 and mental clarity which I certainly didn't have when I 816 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:58,159 was drinking. And so all of the pieces of my life. 817 00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:01,360 I can tell you, beyond a shadow of a doubt 818 00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:05,360 that all of the pieces of my life got better 819 00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:10,960 and were became aligned, and we're like all on the 820 00:51:11,039 --> 00:51:16,000 right tracks once I quit drinking. Every piece of it, 821 00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:20,000 from relational, my relationship with my mother, with both of 822 00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:23,159 my parents, my relationships, my relationship with my ex husband, 823 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,000 although he had to do his work first too, my 824 00:51:26,039 --> 00:51:31,239 relationship with my son. You know, when I you know, 825 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,079 when you become present with yourself and with others, it 826 00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:36,159 can be pretty magical. 827 00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:41,440 Speaker 1: Right, So tell us, tell us where to find you, 828 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,280 How do we sign up for coaching? How do we 829 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:47,679 get out of our shitty marriages? 830 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 2: Yes? Not you? Not you? No? No don't. I mean, 831 00:51:55,519 --> 00:51:57,519 just if it was I would say sure, but I 832 00:51:57,559 --> 00:52:01,760 know it's not so so so uh yeah. Everything about 833 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,599 me is really on my website Kateanthony dot com and 834 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,920 my podcast is The Divorce Survival Guide podcast, which is 835 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,440 on all of the podcast platforms. If you type divorce 836 00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:17,119 into the search bar, it'll come up, I think usually first. 837 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,000 And if you're questioning whether you should stay or go, 838 00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:23,079 I've got a lot of content on that. 839 00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:27,840 Speaker 1: And yeah, and the book is the D word. 840 00:52:28,639 --> 00:52:31,480 Speaker 2: The book is the D word out of making the 841 00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:34,039 ultimate decision about your marriage, and it really helps you, 842 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:35,840 walks you through, Like if you are just trying to 843 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,119 decide whether it'sdayre go. The D word is I think 844 00:52:39,159 --> 00:52:43,599 sort of the clarifying, hopefully clarifying Bible for that. 845 00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 1: Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much, Kate Anthony. 846 00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:51,840 I hope you guys all go check out her stuff. 847 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:53,280 What a great talk. 848 00:52:53,960 --> 00:53:05,519 Speaker 2: Dank it. Yeah, I've this good. I've just culling, yeah 849 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,119 Speaker 3: Yetting my dark This time you got me