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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to mid Rats with sal from Commander Salamander, an

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<v Speaker 1>Eagle one from Eagle Speak at Seer Shore. You're home

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<v Speaker 1>for a discussion of national security issues and all things maritime.

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<v Speaker 1>And good day everybody. Glad to have you on board.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you are with us live, i'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and extend the altar call to you. If

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<v Speaker 1>you feel so inclined, you can head over to the

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<v Speaker 1>chat room. That is the great place to be. If

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<v Speaker 1>you have some observations you want to share during the

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<v Speaker 1>course of the show, or if you have some questions

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<v Speaker 1>you would like for us to address our guests, you

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<v Speaker 1>can go ahead and put it in there. We'll be

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<v Speaker 1>monitored during the course of the show. We'll be glad

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<v Speaker 1>to bring your good ideas into the conversation. And as always,

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<v Speaker 1>if you've got to leave halfway through the show and

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<v Speaker 1>you want to catch up on what you missed, or

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't already, go ahead and go over to iTunes, spreakers, Spotify,

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<v Speaker 1>wherever you get your podcast to find mid Rats and subscribe.

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<v Speaker 1>That way, the recording will be ready for you at

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<v Speaker 1>a time that perhaps works better for you. And today

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<v Speaker 1>let's just go ahead and dive right in to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't too long ago that USA decided back in

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<v Speaker 1>the first Obama administration, that we were going to leave Iraq.

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<v Speaker 1>But the history had different plans for us, and we

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<v Speaker 1>shortly found out when the Islamic State and Syria and

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<v Speaker 1>Iraq made their parents and just seared the international community

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<v Speaker 1>with a brutality that not unprecedented in the modern era,

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<v Speaker 1>but at least its public visibility was. And we returned

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<v Speaker 1>to Iraq and partnered with the Iraqi military and others.

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<v Speaker 1>We began the pushback and a struggle against ISIS that

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<v Speaker 1>is still going on to this day. And there is

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<v Speaker 1>an undertold part of that story that we've brought on

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<v Speaker 1>returning guests today to talk about, and that is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be seth fulsome Colonel United States Marine Corps retired

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<v Speaker 1>in his latest book, Nothing Here Worth Dying For, Seth

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Midrats.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks sal guys. I appreciate you having me back. It's

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<v Speaker 2>great to be here as always.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's just a great opportunity to get your book

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<v Speaker 1>and it's coming out this month and everybody you can

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<v Speaker 1>find links to it over on the show page and

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<v Speaker 1>hopefully we'll give a flavor for this story. This is

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<v Speaker 1>not you Seth. For those that may not be familiar

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<v Speaker 1>with his work, we have links to that on the

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<v Speaker 1>show page as well. He tells a very unique story

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<v Speaker 1>about what we now call the Long War, the Global

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<v Speaker 1>War on Terrorism, and the pre show we were talking

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<v Speaker 1>that a lot of what he and his marines and

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<v Speaker 1>sailors and others he served with have experienced, you can

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<v Speaker 1>trace a very bright line back to ninety ninety one

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<v Speaker 1>and this very long ongoing conflict. And for this particular

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<v Speaker 1>vignette of he and his compatriots experience, you know, Seth

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<v Speaker 1>for the listener, give him an outline of the time

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<v Speaker 1>and the place that your book takes place in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks sal So. Yeah, the story it really begins

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<v Speaker 2>back in twenty fourteen, and that you know, the I

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<v Speaker 2>think from a foreign policy perspective, back then, President Obama's

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<v Speaker 2>focus was getting out of Afghanistan. You know, we had

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<v Speaker 2>already essentially shuttered operations in I Rock in twenty eleven

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty twelve, and we were really focused from my

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<v Speaker 2>piece of the world, on the Joint Staff, we were

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<v Speaker 2>focused on the post twenty four plan for Afghanistan. And

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<v Speaker 2>so that same year in twenty fourteen was when the

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<v Speaker 2>Islamic State just really cut through the center of a

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<v Speaker 2>Rock like a hot knife through butter. And there was

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<v Speaker 2>an immediate request for support from the Iraqi government because

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<v Speaker 2>of the speed at which the ISIS forces were advancing,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly in the north up around Mosul and in western Lam,

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<v Speaker 2>coming in from the border station at Al Kaim, pushing

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<v Speaker 2>all the way to Paditha and elsewhere. And so in

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<v Speaker 2>this initial push from the DoD to try to support

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<v Speaker 2>the government of a Rock and the embassy in Baghdad,

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<v Speaker 2>there was an initial request for forces for a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of division level advisor teams in addition to the other

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<v Speaker 2>capabilities that they were ordering up for this effort. And

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<v Speaker 2>those two advisor teams, the Marine Corps put their hand

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<v Speaker 2>in the air and said we'll take those. One was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be a positioned at the Altacatum Air Base

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<v Speaker 2>and the other is going to be positioned at Alasade

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<v Speaker 2>Air Base in western al Ambar. And those two advised

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<v Speaker 2>and assist teams were they were basically modeled on the

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<v Speaker 2>old division level transition teams that we had in a

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<v Speaker 2>Rock when I was there in an eighth Each one

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<v Speaker 2>of those teams was about twenty six people, and each

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<v Speaker 2>person on that team was essentially an army of one.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you had one operations advisor, one fire support advisor,

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<v Speaker 2>one administration advisor, et cetera. And so very quickly into

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<v Speaker 2>the deployment of these two task forces, task Forced Alacade

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<v Speaker 2>and Task Force ALT the Cottum, the commanders of those

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<v Speaker 2>two advisor and assist task forces realized that just being

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<v Speaker 2>just you know, blanket like vanilla advisors what wasn't going

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<v Speaker 2>to cut it, because the Rackies needed immediate and in

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<v Speaker 2>most cases enduring access to a whole series of enabling

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<v Speaker 2>capabilities to be able to get out after the problem

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<v Speaker 2>with ISIS. They needed real time intelligence all all the

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<v Speaker 2>different types of IT, GEO, IT, sege EMMIT, human, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>They needed a significant amount of support in the in

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<v Speaker 2>the fires range, indirect fire aviation, delivered ordits, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>They also they needed enabling capabilities with with their logistics, planning,

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<v Speaker 2>and execution. They needed a lot more. Otherwise they were

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<v Speaker 2>going to fail. They were going to fail, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>on top of the failure that they had already had

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<v Speaker 2>to stop the ISIS invasion, the Marine Corps and the

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<v Speaker 2>c j T F O I R, the Combined Joint

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<v Speaker 2>Task Force Operation Inherent Resolved, began bolstering up these two

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<v Speaker 2>advisor task forces into Advise, Assist and Enable task forces.

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<v Speaker 2>So they beaked up these these core teams into task

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<v Speaker 2>force headquarters and then began bolting on all the different

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<v Speaker 2>capabilities needed for the Defeat ISIS campaign. So that's where

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<v Speaker 2>where we were in about twenty seventeen when I came

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<v Speaker 2>into the picture with First Task Force al Sade that

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<v Speaker 2>was later in the operation renamed Task Force A Lion.

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<v Speaker 3>You are not the first team in country and kind

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<v Speaker 3>of talk about the teams that preceded you and then

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<v Speaker 3>how you assembled your own team to go over there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we were was with the fifth rotation. We

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<v Speaker 2>call ourselves Rodeo five, and the first couple of rotations

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<v Speaker 2>were really really ad hoc efforts. They were so again

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<v Speaker 2>the two task force headquarters sourced out of the Marine Corps,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were largely sourced out of in fact entirely

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<v Speaker 2>sourced out of individual augments pulled from across the force.

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<v Speaker 2>So eventually the Marine Corps settled into one task force

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<v Speaker 2>headquarters would come from First Marine Expeditionary Force here in Campounton, California.

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<v Speaker 2>The other would come from meth In Camp And it

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<v Speaker 2>would be a process that anybody who's been involved in

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<v Speaker 2>the joint world understands the process of building a joint

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<v Speaker 2>manning document and then sourcing it from across the force,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a huge pain in the ass. And in

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<v Speaker 2>the case of these two task forces, the people that

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<v Speaker 2>were needed for these positions were not buy and large

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<v Speaker 2>were not from the gem Pop force. It was the

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<v Speaker 2>demanning document was filled out with a lot of critical,

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<v Speaker 2>high demand, low density moss or specialties that the Marines

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<v Speaker 2>had in things like the intelligence community, the fires community,

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<v Speaker 2>the aviation community. And on top of all of it,

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<v Speaker 2>each one of these task force rotations required a colonel

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<v Speaker 2>at six as the task force leader or the commander,

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<v Speaker 2>and so like I said, the first couple of iterations

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<v Speaker 2>of my task force, in at least one of those situations,

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<v Speaker 2>the commander was actually pulled out of command to go

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<v Speaker 2>lead his task force rotation. By the time I was

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<v Speaker 2>brought into this in twenty seventeen, the Marine Corps had

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<v Speaker 2>taken a more deliberate approach in what the manning document

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<v Speaker 2>for the task force headquarters looked like and how they

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<v Speaker 2>were filling these positions, but they still hadn't solved the

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<v Speaker 2>problem of all of these billets are our critical billets

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<v Speaker 2>with the heigh demand loads. And they also hadn't really

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<v Speaker 2>solved the problem of how are we going to continue

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<v Speaker 2>to source an six to lead this effort? And so

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<v Speaker 2>really from the get go it was a manpower pain

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<v Speaker 2>in the ass for the service and for the two

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<v Speaker 2>meths that were sourcing it because there just were not

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<v Speaker 2>enough people to go around.

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<v Speaker 1>That's part of the story early on that I'm glad

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<v Speaker 1>that you go through and you talk about, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning, because when you look back at what we've

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<v Speaker 1>seen the last quarter century, I felt included. There are

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of us who have experienced as being IA's

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<v Speaker 1>and if those outside of the military are those that

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<v Speaker 1>you know had never done an IA where they were

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<v Speaker 1>they were part of a part of a command, they

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<v Speaker 1>did their interdeployment work up, they worked hand in love

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<v Speaker 1>with people, they deployed, and they came back. They're still

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<v Speaker 1>part of the unit. And that's what people have their mind.

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<v Speaker 1>But IA's and entities like what became Task Force Lion

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<v Speaker 1>for you, it's it's I guess one way to look

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<v Speaker 1>at it, if you're trying to describe it to people

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<v Speaker 1>who haven't been through it, it is somewhere between the

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<v Speaker 1>Star Wars CANTEENA and the getting a baseball game up

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<v Speaker 1>together in the blacklock field with people from your neighborhood

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<v Speaker 1>you've never met before. As somebody who was tasked to

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<v Speaker 1>to lead this, you would think you also would be

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<v Speaker 1>able to pick your team, But it doesn't work that

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<v Speaker 1>way outside of Hollywood. Talk for a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>and you got some unique characters that you wouldn't expect

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<v Speaker 1>an infantry colonel would have working directly for them in

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<v Speaker 1>certain jobs. But as as we've all experienced, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>regardless where people come from, but the balance of the time,

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<v Speaker 1>people rise to the occasion. So talk about your core

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<v Speaker 1>group where they came from that you had to eventually

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<v Speaker 1>go take into Ambar.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, like you said, not all

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<v Speaker 2>ias are created equal. And and on the low end,

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<v Speaker 2>if someone gets you know, assigned to being an individual augment,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of times it's just them reporting to another

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<v Speaker 2>headquarters to fill a role, and so it's that person's

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<v Speaker 2>responsibility to integrate into a pre existing unit in the

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<v Speaker 2>case of Task Force A Lion, my entire the core

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<v Speaker 2>of my headquarters, the entire team was all individual augments.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what I you know, the the tagline is

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<v Speaker 2>that it was eighty five different marines and sailors from

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five different units, spread across southern California, and and

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<v Speaker 2>and so what what I realized really quickly was that

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<v Speaker 2>this was this was all of these these marines and

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<v Speaker 2>sailors coming from all these disparate commands and locations, that

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<v Speaker 2>they were not coming into a pre existing command that

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<v Speaker 2>had its own culture and its own climate. And I

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<v Speaker 2>realized that for this thing to work, ultimately, we had

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<v Speaker 2>to create our own our own command, We had to

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<v Speaker 2>create our own climate, our own culture, and we had

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<v Speaker 2>to do it quickly because the team formed in February

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<v Speaker 2>of twenty seventeen, and we were set to deploy at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of July. So we only had a handful

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<v Speaker 2>of months to form this team, get to know each other,

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<v Speaker 2>and get ourselves trained to the degree that we needed

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<v Speaker 2>to be to text keep the mission. And so these

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<v Speaker 2>as these billets began to fill in the first few

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<v Speaker 2>months of twenty seventeen. Yeah, like you said, I had

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<v Speaker 2>some interesting characters show up. You know. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>first was my senior listed advisor, Sergeant Major Leibfried, who

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<v Speaker 2>he came from First Anglico, an air enabled gunfire leadison

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<v Speaker 2>company at the meth and he was he was extremely excited.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he knew about this mission. He wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be a part of it. He knew what the opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>it presented, not only with our core team, but also

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<v Speaker 2>with the multinational team that we would integrate with at

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<v Speaker 2>Ala Sade. You know, I had my deputy commander. I had.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd always grown up with the idea of, hey, your

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<v Speaker 2>deputy commander for a combat mission needs to be combat arms.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I was thinking, maybe it'll be another grunt

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<v Speaker 2>like me, or maybe it'll be you know, an aviator,

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<v Speaker 2>and it wasn't. It was a staff joge advocate who'd

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<v Speaker 2>come over from the Greene Logistics Group. And I was thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my god. You know, I can't believe my deputy

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be a lawyer, right, But the perspective

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<v Speaker 2>that he brought, and the background that he brought, and

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<v Speaker 2>even his just his his cultural understanding of other cultures,

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<v Speaker 2>he became force multiplier. You know, other people that popped

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<v Speaker 2>into the team like operations officer, a major named Aaron Autry,

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<v Speaker 2>this guy which when you first met him, you would

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<v Speaker 2>think that he never had anything to say about anything

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<v Speaker 2>because he just didn't talk. He was a very tight

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<v Speaker 2>lipped guy. And he had some significant experience as a

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<v Speaker 2>company commander and a platoon commander in Afghanistan.

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<v Speaker 4>And a Rock.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was also he was a magtaft planner, and

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<v Speaker 2>so he had both the operational, the tactical and operational outlook,

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<v Speaker 2>but he also had a strategic outlook to everything that

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<v Speaker 2>he did. And I had people like Lindsey Mathwick who

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<v Speaker 2>was my task Force logistics officer, and she had been

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<v Speaker 2>in she'd done multiple tours in A Rock in the

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<v Speaker 2>early years, and one of those tours she had been

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<v Speaker 2>in the Lion, this program where they matched up female

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<v Speaker 2>Marines with infantry units as kind of a predecessor to

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<v Speaker 2>the old the FET program, the female Engagement Team program

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<v Speaker 2>in Afghanistan, and so she had real on the ground

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<v Speaker 2>experience in I ROCK. So this this team was this

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<v Speaker 2>really you know, diverse, multi talented team. But again, what

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<v Speaker 2>we lack was some kind of unifying culture or some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of unifying element to our team, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>put an enormous amount of energy into that in the

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<v Speaker 2>few months that we had together before we deployed, because

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<v Speaker 2>I knew if we get over there and we don't

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<v Speaker 2>know who each other, you know, is, and we don't

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<v Speaker 2>know we don't know what our mission is and why

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing this, then you know we were going to

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<v Speaker 2>be sunk from the beginning.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, talk about a little bit now about the mission

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<v Speaker 3>you were given and the situation you wandered into when

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<v Speaker 3>you when you finally arrived in Iraq.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, I remember, I remember when the task

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<v Speaker 2>forces were formed in twenty fourteen, and I didn't pay

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of attention to it. Didn't really start

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<v Speaker 2>paying a lot of attention to it until I started

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<v Speaker 2>getting brought into the conversation that I might go lead

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<v Speaker 2>one of these teams. And so as soon as the

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<v Speaker 2>word came down from on high that I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to go lead the task force a lion, I reached

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<v Speaker 2>out to the guy who was commanding the Rotation four,

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<v Speaker 2>who was already in theater. He was an old friend

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<v Speaker 2>of mine named Fred Frederickson, and we had grown up

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<v Speaker 2>as lieutenants together. He was one of my closest friends,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I dialed him up on a VTC one

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<v Speaker 2>day and said, what the hell is going on? I

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<v Speaker 2>need you to talk me through this. And what he

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<v Speaker 2>went on to say was how quickly the campaign was progressing,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly in Amboor. Up until that early spring of twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>the real focus on the Defeat Isis campaign had been

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<v Speaker 2>in the north. It had been up around Mosul, commanded

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<v Speaker 2>out of the base and Erbil and everybody was a

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<v Speaker 2>laser focused on the battle form Mozuul and what was

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<v Speaker 2>happening there and how it was going to be another

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<v Speaker 2>campaign altogether, just to do the post conflict actions in Mozoul.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what Fred told me was, Hey, this things

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<v Speaker 2>are continuing in Mosul, but c J TFOI R is

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<v Speaker 2>now turning to al Ambar as the deep fight and

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<v Speaker 2>they're ramping up operations here. And we are, we being

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<v Speaker 2>Fred's team before me, we are in the process of

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<v Speaker 2>putting the finishing products on the plan to enable the

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<v Speaker 2>Rocky Security Forces to retake western Ambar. And what he

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<v Speaker 2>said really stuck with me, and he said, that's going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen on your watch. That's what you need to

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<v Speaker 2>prepare for your team needs to show up from day

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<v Speaker 2>one ready to prosecute this plan that my team and

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<v Speaker 2>the team you know Rotation three before him, had developed

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<v Speaker 2>in concert with the Rockies and the coalition. So when

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<v Speaker 2>we showed up in early August of twenty seventeen, right

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<v Speaker 2>from the get go, the Army two star General General

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<v Speaker 2>Pat White, who was the Commander for the Combined Joint

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<v Speaker 2>Forces of Land Component Command C. J. Flick in I

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<v Speaker 2>rock He pulled me aside immediately and said, this is happening.

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<v Speaker 2>It's happening soon, and your task force is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be the main effort. You're going to be the ones

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<v Speaker 2>that helped the Rockies get to the finish line at

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00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:30.160
<v Speaker 2>the Assyrian border in al Came. And so that we

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00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.160
<v Speaker 2>had no timeline apart from be ready to do this

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<v Speaker 2>at any time. The Iraqi government or the Prime Minister,

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00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.240
<v Speaker 2>they will all decide immediately when they're ready for this

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<v Speaker 2>to go, and we have to be ready to go

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<v Speaker 2>on their call. And the one of the guiding you

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<v Speaker 2>know sayings that that they had over there was never

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<v Speaker 2>may never have the Rockies wa wait on us, Never

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<v Speaker 2>make the Rockies wait on us. So we had to

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00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:01.880
<v Speaker 2>build multiple plans with branches and sequel and apply the

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00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:05.480
<v Speaker 2>time space considerations so that we were ready to go

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00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:06.559
<v Speaker 2>since the Iraqis work.

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<v Speaker 1>And that starts the journey, because it's interesting how you

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00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.559
<v Speaker 1>outline the fact that you have different structures and groups

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<v Speaker 1>you have to learn to negotiate with. You not only

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<v Speaker 1>have US Marine Corps people, personalities, procedures, admin, chain of

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00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:32.039
<v Speaker 1>commands back home, you also have the US Sentcom and

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<v Speaker 1>you have coalition forces and you also have the Iraqis

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<v Speaker 1>as well. And you come into Ala Sade that like

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the infrastructure in Iraq when you were there,

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<v Speaker 1>and wait, by the time you had returned eight years later,

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00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.359
<v Speaker 1>it's a very very different place just from an infrastructure,

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<v Speaker 1>logistics and support routine as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. You know the Ala Sade that I remember

329
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.319
<v Speaker 2>and that a lot of people remembered, which everybody had

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<v Speaker 2>called Camp Cupcake from the two thousand and eight nine

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<v Speaker 2>time frame. It was a It was a massive air

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<v Speaker 2>base in western endbar at everything.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It had movie theaters, swimming pools, fast food restaurants, salted

335
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:24.160
<v Speaker 2>dancing lessons, you know, you name it. And the Alisade

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00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.359
<v Speaker 2>that we landed in in twenty seventeen was nothing like

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<v Speaker 2>that when when the Coalition pulled out of Alisade around

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00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.480
<v Speaker 2>the two thousand and nine or ten time frame, they

339
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.200
<v Speaker 2>left it all for the Iraqis as hey, here's our

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<v Speaker 2>parting gift. You know, here are all these thousands of

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<v Speaker 2>tea walls and filled HESCO barriers and all these these

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00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:50.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, Southwest Asia SWA huts that they had built.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was something that the Rockies, it was a

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<v Speaker 2>it was a gift that they couldn't afford to maintain.

345
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<v Speaker 2>So the majority of the base was completely run down,

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<v Speaker 2>beaten down by time and weather. And the Iraqis on

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<v Speaker 2>the base was an Iraqi Air Force unit and the

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<v Speaker 2>Iraqi seventh Division, and they had pulled back into their

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<v Speaker 2>own contonements on the northern edge of the base, and

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<v Speaker 2>it basically left the rest of the base to rot.

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<v Speaker 2>And so had we had a better time when I

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00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.960
<v Speaker 2>landed there in twenty seventeen, completely because the previous rotations

353
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 2>had been executing a simultaneous effort. On one hand, they

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00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:34.799
<v Speaker 2>were working with the ISF and the Coalition to get

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<v Speaker 2>after the ISIS problem, but they were also rebuilding the

356
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<v Speaker 2>infrastructure at Alocade, and along with that what made operations

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00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:47.599
<v Speaker 2>with the Iraqis. So challenging was when the decision was

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<v Speaker 2>made that the coalition members like my Task Force were

359
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:53.920
<v Speaker 2>going to be able to go outside the wire with

360
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<v Speaker 2>the Iraqis. The lines of communication were incredibly extended throughout

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<v Speaker 2>western land Bar and so it required a security component.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a long resupply line, and so we had

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<v Speaker 2>to do a lot of coordination not just with the

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<v Speaker 2>coalition units who would provide a lot of the logistics

365
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<v Speaker 2>and sustainment component, but also coordination with the Iraqi government

366
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<v Speaker 2>because all of our logistics convoys had to fall under

367
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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister's basically its contracting program called pm not

368
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<v Speaker 2>They wanted the Iraqi industry to be involved in the effort,

369
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<v Speaker 2>So almost all of our logistics sustainment convoys across the

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<v Speaker 2>battle space were with the Rocky contractors.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's uh, let's talk about the force that was opposing you,

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<v Speaker 3>because I think people may not remember how fast the

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<v Speaker 3>ISIS went through Iraq and what what what allowed them

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<v Speaker 3>to do that? And what was your perception of what

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<v Speaker 3>you had to do to help the Iraqi security forces?

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<v Speaker 5>Uh?

377
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<v Speaker 3>Retake big Chuckler country.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So you know when I was when I was

379
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<v Speaker 2>working with the Iraqis in seventh Division as an advisor

380
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<v Speaker 2>back in two thousand and eight, the enemy situation in

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<v Speaker 2>Ala amber Bar Province was incredibly minimal at hout where

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00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I was around our com there was nothing really going

383
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<v Speaker 2>on there. There was more turf wars between the Iraqi

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<v Speaker 2>Army and the Rocky Police than anything. And so, you know,

385
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<v Speaker 2>I talked about the enabling capabilities that we brought the

386
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Iraqis in twenty seventeen. We didn't have anything like that

387
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.920
<v Speaker 2>with them at my level, or really at the brigade

388
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 2>or division level in two thousand and eight because they

389
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:49.799
<v Speaker 2>didn't need it. And what I can only assume is

390
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.440
<v Speaker 2>that between you know, the two thousand and nine ten

391
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:58.039
<v Speaker 2>eleven time frame in twenty fourteen where Isis blew through

392
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the country, the military just they weren't.

393
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:02.279
<v Speaker 4>Prepared for it.

394
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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was a matter of complacency

395
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.240
<v Speaker 2>or disorganization or infighting within the commands, or maybe a

396
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.680
<v Speaker 2>combination of all of them. But ultimately, the Iraqi military,

397
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.400
<v Speaker 2>which was you know, in parts, it was modeled not

398
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.440
<v Speaker 2>from their old system, some of it was modeled on

399
00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.000
<v Speaker 2>our system. Through all of our advising efforts in the

400
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:24.839
<v Speaker 2>early days of the war, and you know they were

401
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.880
<v Speaker 2>they one way that they I think were modeled after

402
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>US was they had they had a reliance on a

403
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.759
<v Speaker 2>lot of heavy equipment. They had started getting things like

404
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>in one tanks and they were rolling around the battle

405
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 2>space in home v's and they were just a larger,

406
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:43.079
<v Speaker 2>slower military formation than the ISIS formations who were cutting

407
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.160
<v Speaker 2>through the country. You know, a couple months ago when

408
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:50.799
<v Speaker 2>we talked about how quickly the Assad regime had fallen

409
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:55.119
<v Speaker 2>in Syria, and I think we talked about, you know,

410
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:02.319
<v Speaker 2>the ability of these militias and forces like to operate.

411
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:07.319
<v Speaker 2>You know, they were light, they are fast, they are flexible, UH,

412
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.599
<v Speaker 2>and they can they could fill the void a lot

413
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:16.680
<v Speaker 2>quicker than large military formations. And so just that I

414
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.160
<v Speaker 2>think in general, the unpreparedness on the part of the

415
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Iraqis UH perhaps caused them to take their eye off

416
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 2>the ball and it opened up a seam for ISIS

417
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.759
<v Speaker 2>to exploit. And then and I think also you can't

418
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:36.400
<v Speaker 2>discount you know, really the sheer terror factor because a

419
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.279
<v Speaker 2>lot of I think a lot of what was going

420
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:40.200
<v Speaker 2>on in the Rock in the early days, you know,

421
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.000
<v Speaker 2>there was a terror factor, and there was an al

422
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Qaeda factor, but Isis hit. I think Isis took it

423
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.680
<v Speaker 2>to another level. And they were so brutal and so

424
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:53.319
<v Speaker 2>public about what they were doing, and you know, posting

425
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 2>videos and high definition of beheading people. I think it.

426
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I think it really set the rock's back on their

427
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.359
<v Speaker 2>ass and they're like, what what in the world are

428
00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:04.519
<v Speaker 2>we going to do? And I think that there may

429
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.480
<v Speaker 2>have been some degree of paralysis on their part or

430
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.759
<v Speaker 2>or if not flat out in denial that their country

431
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:11.640
<v Speaker 2>was being overrun.

432
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.640
<v Speaker 1>It's it's easy, it may be convenient to just to

433
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:23.759
<v Speaker 1>forget how incredibly fast and how incredibly brutal in the

434
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.960
<v Speaker 1>modern age they were. And you could see how a

435
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 1>country that even on its best best years was fractious

436
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.960
<v Speaker 1>that it would it would, it would buckle until it

437
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.799
<v Speaker 1>got reinforced, and by the time you got there as

438
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.359
<v Speaker 1>a byproduct of that, that chaos is it wasn't just

439
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:50.920
<v Speaker 1>our usual red blue green situation, red blue green, fusia,

440
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.759
<v Speaker 1>white black. There was all sorts of organizations in there,

441
00:26:55.240 --> 00:27:00.839
<v Speaker 1>some that were obstensively part of the anti anti isive effort,

442
00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 1>but we're not our friends. You had the shadow of

443
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:07.799
<v Speaker 1>the Iranian influence, a lot of the she organizations, but

444
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 1>she also had tribal forces as well. Talk a little

445
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:16.440
<v Speaker 1>bit about about the the Iraqi forces that y'all were

446
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.839
<v Speaker 1>directly supporting, but also how these other I guess we

447
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.640
<v Speaker 1>could call them irregular forces as well, that we're part

448
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:28.119
<v Speaker 1>of the anti Isis effort. Creating a little extra twist

449
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and a little challenge for your team.

450
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as always, it's complicated, Yeah, but I can try

451
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.319
<v Speaker 2>to break it down, you know, as nuts and bolts

452
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.680
<v Speaker 2>as I can. So what what my mandate with Task

453
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:46.799
<v Speaker 2>Force Allign was partner with the uniformed Iraqi security forces.

454
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:50.599
<v Speaker 2>And and what that specifically meant was my task force

455
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.759
<v Speaker 2>was partnered with the Jazira Operations Command what we called

456
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.079
<v Speaker 2>the jay OK and that was a that was a

457
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 2>core level Iraqi Army headquarters that was commanded by the

458
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>man who would become my partner, a guy named Major

459
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 2>General Costum. And within his unit he had the seventh

460
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Iraqi Army Division and several other specialty units like his

461
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.880
<v Speaker 2>commando battalions and commando brigades. But that was my mission

462
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:21.279
<v Speaker 2>was directly partner with the uniformed Iraqi military. A supporting

463
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:26.279
<v Speaker 2>effort to that was the partnership with the Iraqi tribal

464
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:31.160
<v Speaker 2>militia forces who were buying large these Sunni militia units

465
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 2>in alan Bar who were anti ISIS. I don't know

466
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:36.559
<v Speaker 2>that I would go so far as to say that

467
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.079
<v Speaker 2>they were pro us. We never had any issues with them,

468
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:44.319
<v Speaker 2>but they worked directly with and in most cases directly

469
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:49.680
<v Speaker 2>for General cost So they became to a large degree,

470
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.359
<v Speaker 2>they became one of his maneuver arms within the Zero

471
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.799
<v Speaker 2>Operations Command. And part of it was, you know, the

472
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.240
<v Speaker 2>desire on the part of the TMF to back into

473
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:05.119
<v Speaker 2>the cities that essentially belonged to them and where they

474
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.440
<v Speaker 2>were from and where Isis had driven them out of,

475
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:10.839
<v Speaker 2>and working with Costum would enable them to do that.

476
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Now they were always strings attached, but that was kind

477
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.119
<v Speaker 2>of their ultimate goal. The other part for Kossum and

478
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 2>the uniformed Army was they just didn't have enough units

479
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.440
<v Speaker 2>to work across a battle space as big as al

480
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.200
<v Speaker 2>ambor Is, and so they relied on the TMF to

481
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.839
<v Speaker 2>be mobile action arms to operate in a lot of

482
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:34.920
<v Speaker 2>ways that very close to the way that ISIS was

483
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:39.480
<v Speaker 2>operating and definitely similar to the way the PMF the

484
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.359
<v Speaker 2>Popular Mobilization Forces operated and so the PMF. That was

485
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 2>the third part of it. They were a series of

486
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:53.039
<v Speaker 2>militias who worked directly for the Prime Minister's office. Most many,

487
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 2>or if not most, of them were directly controlled, supported,

488
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:01.079
<v Speaker 2>and or influenced by Iran. So one of the things

489
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that was reinforced to me very quickly when we got

490
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:10.839
<v Speaker 2>on the ground was that within the PMF all of

491
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 2>these proxy units what we called Shia militia groups or SMDs,

492
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 2>All SMGs were part of the PMF, but not all

493
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:25.359
<v Speaker 2>PMF units were SMDs. And we learned quickly that you

494
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:30.720
<v Speaker 2>conflated the two at your peril. Because the positive thing

495
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.319
<v Speaker 2>to say about the PMF, written large, was in those

496
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>early days of the ISIS blow through in a rock

497
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 2>when the Iraqi uniformed army crumbled or vanished or just

498
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.599
<v Speaker 2>flat out retreated, the PMF held their ground, and the

499
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.359
<v Speaker 2>PMF were the ones who were responsible for really holding

500
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>back the ISIS forces that were advancing on Baghdad or

501
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Bille and Alasade. And so what that meant was, no

502
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 2>matter what happened with the the is F, the Rocky

503
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:08.039
<v Speaker 2>security forces in their campaign to retake al Ambar, no

504
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.319
<v Speaker 2>matter what happened, the PMF were going to be a

505
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.720
<v Speaker 2>part of it, and no matter what happened once ISIS

506
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 2>was defeated, the PMF were going to be an enduring

507
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.920
<v Speaker 2>part of the security fabric within a rock and that

508
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.480
<v Speaker 2>that was kind of that was a tough pill to

509
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>swallow for us because we knew that a lot of

510
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.400
<v Speaker 2>these mgs, a lot of these Iranian proxies included a

511
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of the same guys who were shooting app and

512
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.119
<v Speaker 2>blowing up Americans in Iraq in the early years of

513
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:40.480
<v Speaker 2>the war. You know, they they did not like us,

514
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:46.480
<v Speaker 2>and in some cases there were you know, armed standoffs

515
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>between Coalition members and some of these units. It's something

516
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.799
<v Speaker 2>that happened several times. At the Alta Katam Air Base,

517
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:58.000
<v Speaker 2>where our sister Task Force was located. They had members

518
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>of Teb hezbolah H, which is a sa militia group,

519
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:08.039
<v Speaker 2>a Runnian proxy based on the Condom Air Base just

520
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, yards from where the Americans and the Coalition

521
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:15.160
<v Speaker 2>were with Task Force out Cottum. And so there was

522
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.799
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these two groups giving each other the

523
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:22.079
<v Speaker 2>stink eye, and uh, you know, a lot of handwringing

524
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>about what's going to happen if somebody turns their guns

525
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:28.440
<v Speaker 2>on us, or there's some kind of miscalculation on the

526
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.759
<v Speaker 2>ground that leads to a shootout with these guys.

527
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:35.200
<v Speaker 3>One of the other challenges you've faced, as far as

528
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.000
<v Speaker 3>I could tell from the book, was an extremely convoluted

529
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:43.039
<v Speaker 3>chain of command. And uh, you you seem to have

530
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:45.400
<v Speaker 3>a lot of responsibility, but not a whole heck of

531
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.079
<v Speaker 3>a lot of authority run through. There were a number

532
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 3>of people looking over your shoulder all the time. One

533
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.240
<v Speaker 3>of your friends was try to it was offering help,

534
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.039
<v Speaker 3>but you're suspicious of the kind of help he was offering.

535
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.519
<v Speaker 3>And and then you had to deal with the h

536
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 3>the Iraqi government and uh, the contentious generals fighting for

537
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 3>position there too.

538
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the our chain of command and you know, more

539
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.599
<v Speaker 2>more to the point, our command relationships that were established

540
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:16.759
<v Speaker 2>for us. But when we got over there was if

541
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.200
<v Speaker 2>you looked at it on the PowerPoint slide, it looked

542
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:20.480
<v Speaker 2>like a maze.

543
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:21.440
<v Speaker 4>You know.

544
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:27.599
<v Speaker 2>We Task Force Alion was under tactical control takon of

545
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:31.240
<v Speaker 2>the of C. J. Flick, the Combined Joint Landforces Component

546
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Command in a Rock, the two star Army general who

547
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:36.880
<v Speaker 2>who was leading the ground effort campaign in the Rock.

548
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:40.839
<v Speaker 2>So we were taken to C. J. Flick. We were

549
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>under operational control of Task Force fifty one to five

550
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 2>with in Bahrain, which is a partnered Blue Green naval

551
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:54.400
<v Speaker 2>task force that's responsible for the area that the area

552
00:33:54.440 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 2>that Fifth Fleet is in charge of, so TACON. We

553
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>were also under administrative control of our parent command at

554
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.880
<v Speaker 2>one meth back in Camp Pendleton, so they were responsible

555
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 2>for all the administrative components of looking after us and

556
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.920
<v Speaker 2>our requirements of reporting back to them. And then on

557
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.679
<v Speaker 2>top of all of that, for all Marine Corps matters

558
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.960
<v Speaker 2>in the Sentcom ARIAV operation, we all reported to Marine

559
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Force ES Central Command Marcent, So that was just on

560
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:30.760
<v Speaker 2>the Green side, on the Marine side. Then, like you said,

561
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 2>adding on top of that that, we had a partnered

562
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:38.000
<v Speaker 2>relationship with the Zero Operations Command and so it's very

563
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.559
<v Speaker 2>difficult for us to make a move without incorporating them

564
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.880
<v Speaker 2>into it, otherwise the partnership, you know, doesn't exist. And

565
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.880
<v Speaker 2>then there were also the uh the command relationships that

566
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:54.639
<v Speaker 2>we had with the various Special Operations Forces units that

567
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:58.719
<v Speaker 2>we worked with, and alongside there in Western Endbar there

568
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 2>was the overall All Special Operations Joint Task Force or ROCK.

569
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:07.079
<v Speaker 2>Within them was the Siege of SODIF. Within them was

570
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the Special Operations Task Force West, which was based around

571
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:14.920
<v Speaker 2>the Seal Team at Al Saud with US, and it

572
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.440
<v Speaker 2>was it was made very clear to us immediately that

573
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:23.480
<v Speaker 2>at no time would any SOFT unit report to Task

574
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Force Alliance. They would never be taken to US. At best,

575
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.119
<v Speaker 2>there would be a supporting, supported effort for the operations

576
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 2>we did, but they they were They had a visceral

577
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:38.039
<v Speaker 2>reaction to any suggestion that we might attach a SOFT

578
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.599
<v Speaker 2>element to the Task Force to work for us. So

579
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.599
<v Speaker 2>what that meant practically on the ground during the operations

580
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:48.159
<v Speaker 2>we did with the iraqies was we would work with

581
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:53.400
<v Speaker 2>SOFT to attach teams primarily to the tribal militia forces

582
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 2>the TMF, because they had the authority to work with

583
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the TMF. My team and I did not. We worked

584
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:03.880
<v Speaker 2>with them indirectly, but we couldn't work with them directly

585
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the same way that SOFT did. And so it was

586
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.760
<v Speaker 2>this this patchwork to quilt of putting all these pieces

587
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.119
<v Speaker 2>together and just trying to make it work. And it

588
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:17.320
<v Speaker 2>was to say it was challenging is like the understatement

589
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:19.360
<v Speaker 2>of the year. No.

590
00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:23.239
<v Speaker 1>I kind of was getting an eye twitch during that

591
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:26.880
<v Speaker 1>portion because of one of one of my things I

592
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.280
<v Speaker 1>have to claim full responsibility and guilt for is back

593
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.360
<v Speaker 1>in Afghanistan. I was one of those goobers that had

594
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.880
<v Speaker 1>to build that whole matrix about Op Cohn versus opcom

595
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.199
<v Speaker 1>who was Takon who is Takm? And we also had

596
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:43.679
<v Speaker 1>the national caveats matrix. It added to that. Yeah, and

597
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.320
<v Speaker 1>you also had to deal with that. I think for

598
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.559
<v Speaker 1>the for the listener who perhaps they've watched Catch twenty

599
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.679
<v Speaker 1>two or the original mash movie, I think that's the exaggeration.

600
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:57.400
<v Speaker 1>It's really not an exaggeration. You could really make a

601
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 1>dark comedy talking about a couple things. I just give

602
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.960
<v Speaker 1>a listener some flesh for is you have this combined

603
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>situation where you have the Danes and the Norwegians and

604
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.719
<v Speaker 1>eventually the French come out to help you. But you

605
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 1>almost had a fanboy capture of the Danes by the

606
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.480
<v Speaker 1>US Navy seals, and you also internally, if I got

607
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:26.280
<v Speaker 1>it right, you pretty much kidnapped a young contractor who

608
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.800
<v Speaker 1>was the only person in Iraq that could keep your

609
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:34.159
<v Speaker 1>communications gear up and running. So again, kind of like

610
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.960
<v Speaker 1>like Mark identified you, you had a lot of responsibility,

611
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.159
<v Speaker 1>but you didn't have much of authority, so you had

612
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:43.920
<v Speaker 1>to work around these these structures that were obsensively there

613
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 1>to help you, but it seemed like they were putting

614
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:49.039
<v Speaker 1>rakes in front of you and your team and themselves.

615
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Often. Yeah, it's the truth. And I wouldn't say kidnap.

616
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.719
<v Speaker 2>I would say held onto for a little while until

617
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>we were certain the mission was going to be accomplished.

618
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.360
<v Speaker 2>But no, to your point one hundred percent, and that

619
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.360
<v Speaker 2>is that, you know I talked about. I talked about

620
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.360
<v Speaker 2>the challenges of the command relationships and how our team

621
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.840
<v Speaker 2>was put together, but the authorities piece that you're talking about,

622
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it was a significant obstacle to getting things done in

623
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.320
<v Speaker 2>country and what that stemmed from was my position as

624
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.199
<v Speaker 2>the task force commander. The task force, again, as we

625
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:26.039
<v Speaker 2>talked about, was a cobbled together unit that was not

626
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:32.519
<v Speaker 2>based under an existing unit flag. So for example, the C. J.

627
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Flick Headquarters in Baghdad was built around the first Armored

628
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Division headquarters, so the first Armored Division Headquarters flag was

629
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.960
<v Speaker 2>in Baghdad, and the commander carried the same command authorities

630
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:50.760
<v Speaker 2>in Baghdad as a CJ. Flick commander as he did

631
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.400
<v Speaker 2>back in the States as the first Armored Division commander.

632
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have a flag because I was an IA.

633
00:38:56.480 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>I also was I was initially designated as just an OIC,

634
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:05.239
<v Speaker 2>an officer in charge of the team, until I got

635
00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:08.519
<v Speaker 2>to a rock and a couple of people made it

636
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:11.280
<v Speaker 2>clear to me, you are the commander of the task force,

637
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 2>and I realized was in that situation a commander is

638
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.960
<v Speaker 2>not equivalent to a commanding officer because I had no

639
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:26.280
<v Speaker 2>command authority, no administrative command authority when I was with

640
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Task Force a Lion. And when I say none, what

641
00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:34.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean is I didn't have I didn't have NJP authority,

642
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have awarding authority. There were were funding authorities

643
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.239
<v Speaker 2>that I didn't have. I had really none of the

644
00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:45.440
<v Speaker 2>command authorities that are traditionally associated with someone who is

645
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:49.199
<v Speaker 2>formally selected as a commanding officer. And yet I had

646
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 2>all the responsibilities of a commander in theater. I was

647
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:56.760
<v Speaker 2>a battle space owner with the task Force. I was

648
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:00.800
<v Speaker 2>responsible for any civilian casualties that might occur in the

649
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.880
<v Speaker 2>course of prosecuting the air strikes and the ground strikes

650
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:06.039
<v Speaker 2>that we were doing. There was a whole line of

651
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.719
<v Speaker 2>things that I was responsible for there, but I had

652
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:13.280
<v Speaker 2>nothing on paper really to back it up. And so

653
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.400
<v Speaker 2>what it ultimately what it led to was a not

654
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:19.920
<v Speaker 2>small amount of of Mother may I and a lot

655
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:23.719
<v Speaker 2>of asking permission to do things because otherwise I had

656
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>no authority to do them. And that was it was

657
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:28.119
<v Speaker 2>it was. It was an obstacle that I don't know

658
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.840
<v Speaker 2>that I ever really overcame when I was there.

659
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it's interesting that that I was thinking of logistics.

660
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Your your your logistics people must have been crazy. Where's

661
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 3>the money coming too? For the contracting stuff? I mean,

662
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:49.119
<v Speaker 3>I know you had a really good logistics supply officer person,

663
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.280
<v Speaker 3>you know where we're I think she was she right?

664
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 3>Where where was she getting the funds to pay for

665
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:54.119
<v Speaker 3>all this stuff?

666
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:54.840
<v Speaker 4>Well?

667
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:57.599
<v Speaker 2>The the upside there is that that was money that

668
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.440
<v Speaker 2>was set aside in the they called it the T

669
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.159
<v Speaker 2>and E program, the Iraqi Training equip Program, and so

670
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 2>there was a there was a pool of funds that

671
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:11.119
<v Speaker 2>did everything from providing M sixteen's to the new Iraqi

672
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:14.000
<v Speaker 2>recruits all the way to funding some of the some

673
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.280
<v Speaker 2>of the convoy and the movement operations that we did.

674
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.559
<v Speaker 2>But the you know, the caveat was it required her

675
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.159
<v Speaker 2>and her team to work with the Prime Minister's office,

676
00:41:25.239 --> 00:41:28.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, via the coalition, to say okay, we want

677
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:32.519
<v Speaker 2>to we are planning on moving this many short tons

678
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:36.800
<v Speaker 2>of equipment and ammunition fuel from here to here, and

679
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.519
<v Speaker 2>this is what the requirement is. So now we need

680
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:41.119
<v Speaker 2>you to approve it, and we need you to source

681
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the contractors. And so the people that were doing the

682
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of the the lion's share no pun intended of

683
00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:53.239
<v Speaker 2>the initial coordination work was our logistics section and the

684
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 2>next level that work was done up in Baghdad.

685
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.360
<v Speaker 1>And the geography of this I've being as somebody that's

686
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:07.960
<v Speaker 1>based out of California looking at from from Assad up

687
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:14.400
<v Speaker 1>to up to come, I'll come, however we pronounce it.

688
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a distance of about as the hi Mars rocket flies.

689
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.199
<v Speaker 1>It's about eighty nautical miles, which is about the same

690
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:26.440
<v Speaker 1>distance from San Diego to Long Beach. And y'all were

691
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 1>not stuck, and one of the challenges for your team

692
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.719
<v Speaker 1>stuck not the right word, but you didn't stay just

693
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:36.199
<v Speaker 1>in Ala sad Is as staff Major General Cossam and

694
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:40.119
<v Speaker 1>in his forces were moving up the Euphrates Valley up

695
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:47.119
<v Speaker 1>towards the Syrian border. H y'all were moving with them,

696
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:50.679
<v Speaker 1>and that I thought was a tremendous story and a

697
00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 1>great tribute to your logistics team in themselves being able

698
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:57.400
<v Speaker 1>to work up like y'all did the valley so y'all

699
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.480
<v Speaker 1>could continue to support and assist the Iraqis is moved up.

700
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.519
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that you know that that whole process and what

701
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.360
<v Speaker 6>our team accomplished, it's something that I'm incredibly proud of

702
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.320
<v Speaker 6>and I you know, I will talk to people about

703
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 6>that and the opportunity I get because it was it

704
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:17.639
<v Speaker 6>was a logistical feat to get it done.

705
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:20.960
<v Speaker 2>And it was like by the end of the major

706
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.800
<v Speaker 2>operation that we did with the Rockies called the Desert

707
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Lion that occurred between September and November of twenty seventeen.

708
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.760
<v Speaker 2>By the end of that operation, our marines and sailors

709
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:37.360
<v Speaker 2>and soldiers and everybody else in the task force, they

710
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:42.239
<v Speaker 2>had moved about eleven thousand miles in sustainment convoys going

711
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:46.199
<v Speaker 2>back and forth between Alasade, the different outposts that we

712
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.159
<v Speaker 2>established and ultimately to the final outpost at the train

713
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:54.400
<v Speaker 2>station in al Come. And you know, it's the credit.

714
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, the credit goes to a lot of people

715
00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:00.000
<v Speaker 2>for execution. It was clearly by my ops and logistics

716
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:02.280
<v Speaker 2>teams who were able to plan it and then make

717
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.519
<v Speaker 2>it happen. But the credit also has to go to

718
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.679
<v Speaker 2>the two previous teams who were there before us, Rotation

719
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:13.280
<v Speaker 2>four with Fred Frederickson and Rotation three with Paul NuGen.

720
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Those two teams were the ones who they built the

721
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.199
<v Speaker 2>guts of the plan to get the task force and

722
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:23.280
<v Speaker 2>more importantly, the Iraqis out to the border and that

723
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.440
<v Speaker 2>was with that was a lot of late night sessions

724
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.199
<v Speaker 2>between them, the Coalition and the Iraqis of mapping out. Hey,

725
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:33.760
<v Speaker 2>this is how far the high Morris window is. This

726
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 2>is how far the Canon artillery window is. These are

727
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.840
<v Speaker 2>this is what the Golden Hour ring looks like for

728
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.280
<v Speaker 2>METAVAC support throughout this. And so, you know, when we

729
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 2>were doing high fives after the operation was over and

730
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:51.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, breaking our arms, patting ourselves on the back,

731
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:55.079
<v Speaker 2>we definitely had to take a pause and realized that

732
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:57.840
<v Speaker 2>none of this could have happened as quickly and as

733
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.760
<v Speaker 2>well as it had if we hadn't had the previous

734
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:03.960
<v Speaker 2>teams setting the groundwork and planning this thing for us.

735
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:06.599
<v Speaker 1>You know, one of the things that I think a

736
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.360
<v Speaker 1>lot of people could relate to and I know it

737
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:11.039
<v Speaker 1>wasn't funny at the time, but reading it, I couldn't

738
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:13.280
<v Speaker 1>help but laugh because I think we all similar stories.

739
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:15.679
<v Speaker 1>I also think that you and everybody else from now

740
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:19.440
<v Speaker 1>on knows that a Paladin, she's a wide lady. She

741
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.320
<v Speaker 1>needs a little more, she needs a little more than

742
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:24.920
<v Speaker 1>everybody thinks she does to move it. Just to give

743
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.079
<v Speaker 1>people idea that the resource limitations you have, you know,

744
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.440
<v Speaker 1>explain what I was just talking about, Lady Paladin a

745
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:33.800
<v Speaker 1>little bit of wife, but also talk about the fact

746
00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:37.239
<v Speaker 1>that you you couldn't take all your assets with you

747
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.679
<v Speaker 1>simply from an ownership point of view of the Paladins

748
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:42.599
<v Speaker 1>versus your high mars.

749
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. So, uh, you know what you're referencing was

750
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in this logistical effort. As we began to frame out

751
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:53.800
<v Speaker 2>and build these outposts that we were going to occupy

752
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:55.840
<v Speaker 2>with the Rockies, we also had to figure out how

753
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:58.320
<v Speaker 2>we were going to jump some of our heavy critical

754
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:02.280
<v Speaker 2>enabling capabilities forward with us. One of those capabilities was

755
00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:06.079
<v Speaker 2>we had a Army artillery unit based aboard Al Saude

756
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:09.320
<v Speaker 2>with us that was under our take on our tactical control,

757
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.039
<v Speaker 2>and that unit was Army Paladin howitzers and self propelled howitzers.

758
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.360
<v Speaker 2>It's a self propelled howitzer, but you can't self drive it,

759
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:20.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, fifty sixty seventy miles to an outpost. It

760
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.320
<v Speaker 2>has to be put on a tractor trailer. And so

761
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:27.840
<v Speaker 2>as we were prepping to head north for our first

762
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.840
<v Speaker 2>operation in our first outpost, my logistics officer came to

763
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.000
<v Speaker 2>me in the office one night and said, I got

764
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.000
<v Speaker 2>some bad news. And I said, what's up? And she said,

765
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:41.559
<v Speaker 2>the paladins are too wide for the Rocky trucks that

766
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>got contracted to us. And I was like, what you know?

767
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:46.719
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, how wide's a paladin? And she said

768
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:50.119
<v Speaker 2>it's like ten point six feet And I said, yeah, well,

769
00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:52.159
<v Speaker 2>how how wide are the rocky trucks?

770
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:53.599
<v Speaker 4>And she said not that wide?

771
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:57.239
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, and it was a great learning

772
00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:01.360
<v Speaker 2>experience because, you know, she did know and I didn't

773
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.000
<v Speaker 2>know either. I mean I had I had no I

774
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.960
<v Speaker 2>had no idea. And one of the things that that

775
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:10.000
<v Speaker 2>keyed for me was the importance of joint operations. That

776
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.519
<v Speaker 2>you've got to get out of your comfort zone and

777
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:16.400
<v Speaker 2>realize that if you're a marine, the joint world is

778
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:19.840
<v Speaker 2>not the Marine Corps world. We don't have paladins in

779
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.159
<v Speaker 2>the Marine Corps, but the Army does. The Army was

780
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:25.800
<v Speaker 2>part of the joint force. So it was uh and

781
00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:27.639
<v Speaker 2>and you know, in the end it all worked out

782
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:31.039
<v Speaker 2>and she she made it happen by accelerating the contracting

783
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:34.840
<v Speaker 2>process to get the right trucks we needed. But it

784
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:38.039
<v Speaker 2>was one of those moments where you know, our heart

785
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:41.880
<v Speaker 2>almost stopped and uh, we're able to to uh to

786
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:46.079
<v Speaker 2>make it happen. Yeah, well, I'm sorry, what was the

787
00:47:46.119 --> 00:47:47.519
<v Speaker 2>second what was the second part of that?

788
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:50.840
<v Speaker 4>You know what?

789
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 3>It fell out of my brain too. You can't you

790
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.559
<v Speaker 3>can't remember. Listen your your story about the palains and

791
00:47:55.639 --> 00:47:58.320
<v Speaker 3>reminded me of a very desert storm. When they were

792
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:01.960
<v Speaker 3>moving the abram abrams around. They brought all these low

793
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 3>boy trucks from the US. So you know, Joe's trucking

794
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.079
<v Speaker 3>company in Baton Rouge shows up with this, with this

795
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:11.639
<v Speaker 3>that they could get the abramsons and they could move

796
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 3>them through the country. It was it was really impressive.

797
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.360
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't just you know, you don't realize, especially me

798
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:19.199
<v Speaker 3>as a Navy guy, to realize that all that stuff

799
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.159
<v Speaker 3>had to be moved, even though it was self propelled,

800
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:23.559
<v Speaker 3>as you just said, it's not good to move them

801
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:26.400
<v Speaker 3>that way. You have to pervoctently plan ahead for this stuff.

802
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:28.480
<v Speaker 3>So I was kind of laughing at that part of

803
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:30.559
<v Speaker 3>the story too. The other the other thing that I

804
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 3>thought was funny too, is you you were given the

805
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:35.599
<v Speaker 3>you had a rival group with rifles with you that

806
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 3>but they they were stuck with We were talking about

807
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 3>national caveats earlier, and they got stuck and I got

808
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:44.440
<v Speaker 3>to give him a pretty hard time about coming out

809
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:45.599
<v Speaker 3>outside the wire with you.

810
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I really felt for them. Uh. The

811
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.239
<v Speaker 2>the the British commander, he was a fantastic guy. He

812
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:56.440
<v Speaker 2>had a bunch of great soldiers working for him, and

813
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.199
<v Speaker 2>their mission was to provide It was to be a

814
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 2>sec for security force for Alasade, and they took their

815
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:05.960
<v Speaker 2>job extremely seriously. I mean, they had a base Defense

816
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Operations Center set up, they had some Marines from the

817
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Special Purpose MAGTAFF there to augment them, and they took

818
00:49:13.880 --> 00:49:18.840
<v Speaker 2>based security extremely seriously. Because of what had happened in

819
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Afghanistan with the airfield attack, that was just one of

820
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.079
<v Speaker 2>the reasons why they took it seriously. They were also

821
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:27.880
<v Speaker 2>just a bunch of professionals and their national caveats prevented

822
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:31.320
<v Speaker 2>them from going outside the wire, and that was a

823
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 2>restriction that just absolutely absolutely drove him out of his mind,

824
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.119
<v Speaker 2>especially as we were beginning to gear up and we

825
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:42.480
<v Speaker 2>had been given the authority to go outside the wire

826
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.639
<v Speaker 2>with the Rockies and escort them in their operation all

827
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:48.840
<v Speaker 2>the way to the border, and you know, with tender

828
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Colonel Bellamy and his Brits, they were going to be

829
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:55.239
<v Speaker 2>left behind. And it was to the point where, I mean,

830
00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:59.159
<v Speaker 2>I think for him it was a professional embarrassment and

831
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:01.519
<v Speaker 2>I would ribb him about it, you know, and say, hey,

832
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:03.519
<v Speaker 2>we're going all the way and you know where you're

833
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:06.360
<v Speaker 2>going to be. You're going to be like hanging out

834
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:09.880
<v Speaker 2>in the coof and drinking coffee, and until I ribbed him,

835
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:12.440
<v Speaker 2>until I realized that this is doing more harm than good.

836
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.719
<v Speaker 2>And to his credit, he was so passionate about it

837
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>that he elevated the issue all the way with his

838
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:23.039
<v Speaker 2>chain of command and it ultimately got briefed by the

839
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 2>mod to Parliament, and I think the case that they

840
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:29.960
<v Speaker 2>made was the Coalition is going outside the wire and

841
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.960
<v Speaker 2>we look like jackasses not being able to do so.

842
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:37.480
<v Speaker 2>And Parliament relented a little bit. They gave them a

843
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:40.639
<v Speaker 2>certain radius of several kilometers that they could operate outside

844
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:44.760
<v Speaker 2>the wire, which it didn't completely solve the problem, because

845
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the idea of security forces was one of those enablers

846
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:51.440
<v Speaker 2>that we needed at every outpost that we set up

847
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:53.800
<v Speaker 2>and manned, and we also needed it along the way

848
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:58.440
<v Speaker 2>for route security. But what that restriction on the policy

849
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.760
<v Speaker 2>for the Brits did was it it enabled them to

850
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:04.880
<v Speaker 2>serve as the quick response unit or a quick response

851
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:09.480
<v Speaker 2>for UCE, the QRF for Al Sade, operating several kilometers

852
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.599
<v Speaker 2>outside the wire, so that if something went down outside

853
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.079
<v Speaker 2>the wire during these movements, they could quickly respond to it.

854
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 2>And I know it helped them, you know, from from

855
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.199
<v Speaker 2>an emotional perspective, to be able to contribute. But it

856
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:26.000
<v Speaker 2>also freed up more marines, more trigar pollers for us

857
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:29.639
<v Speaker 2>to take forward with us to work the security operations

858
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:34.159
<v Speaker 2>along the different lines of supplying communications and at the outposts.

859
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:36.199
<v Speaker 2>I think well.

860
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:39.800
<v Speaker 1>And also an interesting side story that kind of weaves

861
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:42.239
<v Speaker 1>this way through a lot of this is just the

862
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:45.679
<v Speaker 1>in spite of all the years that we've worked with

863
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:51.440
<v Speaker 1>the iraqis that there's a huge cultural difference between the

864
00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:53.880
<v Speaker 1>two where you talk about we've all worked for them,

865
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:57.079
<v Speaker 1>is you'll work for an American you know, general officer

866
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:00.320
<v Speaker 1>or flag officer who's perfectly comfortable calling an email a

867
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:03.599
<v Speaker 1>midnight thirty and expecting an answer by zero two hundred.

868
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.840
<v Speaker 1>It just it just never ends with these people, Whereas

869
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:10.039
<v Speaker 1>even though they're in their own country, fighting their own

870
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, San Diego to Long Beach Battle that uh

871
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Major General Cassam and his troops, it was almost a

872
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:22.679
<v Speaker 1>nine to five military bankers hours war.

873
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:24.880
<v Speaker 2>How was that?

874
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 1>A lot of your team had experience in Iraq before,

875
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:30.639
<v Speaker 1>but you know, bridging those two cultural differences that had

876
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:31.679
<v Speaker 1>to have been a challenge.

877
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a challenge. And you know the the

878
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:37.159
<v Speaker 2>midnight calls thing. I mean, you know one of the

879
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:39.280
<v Speaker 2>things that I talk about in the story is that

880
00:52:39.559 --> 00:52:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Costum loved to call in the middle of the night.

881
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:43.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think, I think in general, the guy

882
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:46.519
<v Speaker 2>was just an insomniac and he wanted a lot of reassuring.

883
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.519
<v Speaker 2>And after a couple of weeks of this, I finally

884
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:54.559
<v Speaker 2>told my interpreter, look, I can't I already work long

885
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:57.199
<v Speaker 2>hours here, I can't talk to him at midnight every night,

886
00:52:57.639 --> 00:52:59.480
<v Speaker 2>or we're not going to get anything done. This the

887
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:01.920
<v Speaker 2>call is still came, they just weren't quite as as

888
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:04.800
<v Speaker 2>frequent as the head been. But the nine to five aspect,

889
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean it was a real thing. Not not so

890
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:10.039
<v Speaker 2>much like right at nine, but whenever we were doing

891
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:13.360
<v Speaker 2>the operations from from the outposts during the final clear

892
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:16.599
<v Speaker 2>the Iraqis started moving every day at six. You know,

893
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:19.840
<v Speaker 2>they didn't they didn't start before sunrise came up. They

894
00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.679
<v Speaker 2>came when they started moving when sunrise came up. And

895
00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:24.159
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, as the sun was

896
00:53:24.199 --> 00:53:28.039
<v Speaker 2>going down, they went to ground. And so they were

897
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:30.840
<v Speaker 2>basically they were day fighters and no matter where they

898
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.400
<v Speaker 2>were in the fight, they would pause what they were doing.

899
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 2>And that was you know, we we we knew that,

900
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:41.000
<v Speaker 2>but when we saw an action and experienced it, it

901
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:44.360
<v Speaker 2>was it was difficult for some of us to accept.

902
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:48.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, for example, during the first major operation that

903
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:51.920
<v Speaker 2>we did during you know, Phase one, and we were

904
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:58.679
<v Speaker 2>at our firebase in Sagra when the Iraqis finally punched

905
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:02.000
<v Speaker 2>into the city of Honor and split the city in half,

906
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and we're literally routing the Isis fighters that were embedded

907
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:10.280
<v Speaker 2>in the city. When the sun went down. I mean,

908
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:12.679
<v Speaker 2>it was it was like at the culminating moment of

909
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:15.239
<v Speaker 2>the battle, and we were all in our command post

910
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:18.239
<v Speaker 2>and cheering, and I'm like talking to cost him on

911
00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:21.000
<v Speaker 2>the phone, you know, being his cheerleader. And this was

912
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.719
<v Speaker 2>the it was the beginning of the exploitation phase, and

913
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:25.960
<v Speaker 2>they went to ground and like, okay, we're done for

914
00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.599
<v Speaker 2>the night. And my apso Aaron Autry and I looked

915
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.239
<v Speaker 2>at each other and we were like, what the hell,

916
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:36.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, because we knew if we had been out there,

917
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.280
<v Speaker 2>if it had been a Marine Corps or an army

918
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:42.280
<v Speaker 2>unit at that culminating moment, we would have begun the

919
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:47.119
<v Speaker 2>exploitation because that was the weakest point that the ISIS

920
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:50.480
<v Speaker 2>fighters faced. But the Rockies were comfortable with saying, Okay,

921
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:54.000
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna pause here, get some rest, and we'll start

922
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:57.480
<v Speaker 2>all back up again in the morning. So yeah, it involved,

923
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:03.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, taking a step back and saying, I understand

924
00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:06.719
<v Speaker 2>that this is not how we would do it, but

925
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not our fight. It's the Rockies fight, and we're

926
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:13.920
<v Speaker 2>here to backstop them and help them get to the

927
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:16.760
<v Speaker 2>goal line the way that they need to.

928
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:20.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it's important to keep the vision concept there,

929
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:22.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, the old the old when you're up to

930
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:25.280
<v Speaker 3>your rear end an alligator's concept. One of the things

931
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:27.960
<v Speaker 3>that throughout the book, I mean, I set your frustration

932
00:55:28.239 --> 00:55:29.840
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the time with what was going on.

933
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:32.760
<v Speaker 3>And then towards the end, as you're beginning to get

934
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:36.199
<v Speaker 3>ready to withdraw and you get visits from various high

935
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:39.920
<v Speaker 3>ranking officials, talk about how you got the title for

936
00:55:40.039 --> 00:55:40.480
<v Speaker 3>your book.

937
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was what's the line from pulp fiction. I

938
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.760
<v Speaker 2>had what alcoholics call a moment of clarity, you know,

939
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I was in a this was it was in December

940
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of twenty seventeen, and the big operation that we had

941
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.760
<v Speaker 2>done with Desert Lion had really culminated in November, and

942
00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:03.320
<v Speaker 2>we're we are now in kind of closing actions, but

943
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.159
<v Speaker 2>the campaign wasn't over, and there was still a lot

944
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:08.760
<v Speaker 2>of work we'll have to do, and things were bubbling

945
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:11.840
<v Speaker 2>up with the PMF. We were having problems with them

946
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:16.639
<v Speaker 2>around our base at Alt Come, and like I said,

947
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.880
<v Speaker 2>we just we still had a lot of work to do.

948
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Operation Desert Line was just the beginning, and I was

949
00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:27.719
<v Speaker 2>on a I had hopped on a helicopter with the C. J. Flick,

950
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Commander General White, and as we were talking and you know,

951
00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:35.079
<v Speaker 2>White and I had a tremendous relationship. I mean, he

952
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.960
<v Speaker 2>had nothing but support for me, and I always really appreciated,

953
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:42.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, the the support that he and his staff

954
00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:45.280
<v Speaker 2>gave us out there. And as we were talking about

955
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:49.559
<v Speaker 2>the ongoing security situation, he said, you know, what you

956
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:53.599
<v Speaker 2>need to understand is that force protection is my number

957
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.760
<v Speaker 2>one priority out here, and just remember that there's nothing

958
00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:01.079
<v Speaker 2>here worth dying for. And when he said that to me,

959
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 2>the first thing that I thought was, well, then, what

960
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:10.079
<v Speaker 2>the hell are we doing here? Why have we left

961
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:14.559
<v Speaker 2>our families, Why have we put ourselves at risk? Why

962
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:17.519
<v Speaker 2>are we expending blood and treasure to come over here

963
00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:21.599
<v Speaker 2>if there's nothing here worth dying for. So that stuck

964
00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:24.360
<v Speaker 2>with me, and you know, I went back to Ali

965
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:29.199
<v Speaker 2>Sade and not long after that, we got a Christmas

966
00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>visit from the Commandant of the Marine Corps and we were,

967
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:34.800
<v Speaker 2>my team and I were briefing him on what we've

968
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:38.079
<v Speaker 2>been doing for the previous several months, and you know,

969
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:40.880
<v Speaker 2>we were we were explaining, Hey, these are successes, these

970
00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:44.519
<v Speaker 2>are we pushed the ball forward, The Iraqis are getting better,

971
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Asis is militarily defeated out here, and all the comment

972
00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Dant had to say was nothing we do out here

973
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.320
<v Speaker 2>is ever going to make any difference, and he just

974
00:57:55.400 --> 00:58:00.559
<v Speaker 2>can't get blown up out here. And my staff and

975
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:04.719
<v Speaker 2>I looked at each other and there was this, you know,

976
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:09.639
<v Speaker 2>almost telepathic feeling amongst us of again, what the hell

977
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:13.199
<v Speaker 2>are we doing out here for if if it's not

978
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:17.239
<v Speaker 2>going to make any difference. So I struggled with that

979
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:20.360
<v Speaker 2>for the rest of the deployment, because again, that big

980
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.559
<v Speaker 2>operation with iraqis by the time it concluded in November

981
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:29.159
<v Speaker 2>of twenty seventeen, our deployment was barely half over. And

982
00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I struggled with what those senior leaders had said to me,

983
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.679
<v Speaker 2>because I've worked around general officers long enough to know

984
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:41.760
<v Speaker 2>that their words mean things. And as senior leaders in

985
00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the Army and the Marine Corps and the Department of Defense,

986
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:48.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're responsible for what they say, and people

987
00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:52.280
<v Speaker 2>listen to the words of their leaders and what those

988
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:56.519
<v Speaker 2>words mean and what it means for you and your people,

989
00:58:57.320 --> 00:58:59.320
<v Speaker 2>and so, like I said, I really struggled with that

990
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:03.400
<v Speaker 2>for the rest of the deployment, wondering, like, is what

991
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>we're doing here is is it worth dying for? And ultimately,

992
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:12.639
<v Speaker 2>you know what I realized is I had issues with

993
00:59:12.679 --> 00:59:15.920
<v Speaker 2>the mission in I ROCK. I had issues with what

994
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.480
<v Speaker 2>we did in Afghanistan. You know, with the benefit of hindsight,

995
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:22.239
<v Speaker 2>I can look back on all the things that I did,

996
00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:25.280
<v Speaker 2>and I'm proud of my service. I'm proud of the

997
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:29.320
<v Speaker 2>teams that I was with in ROCK in Afghanistan, but

998
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:33.039
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't negate the fact that I spent the majority

999
00:59:33.039 --> 00:59:37.320
<v Speaker 2>of my time in uniform fighting to losing wars that

1000
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:42.360
<v Speaker 2>were strategically misguided almost from the outset. But you know,

1001
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.480
<v Speaker 2>keeping all that in mind, as frustrated as I was

1002
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:49.440
<v Speaker 2>with the direction of the campaigns went and some decisions

1003
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:52.400
<v Speaker 2>that were made at the highest level, what I always

1004
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:54.639
<v Speaker 2>came back to was the thing that I was the

1005
00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:57.559
<v Speaker 2>most proud of was the work that I did with

1006
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.599
<v Speaker 2>the teams that were assigned to me. You know, the

1007
01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:04.039
<v Speaker 2>organizations that we built together, the things that we accomplished,

1008
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:08.679
<v Speaker 2>the sacrifices that they and their brothers and sisters had made,

1009
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, since the beginning of the Long War. And

1010
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, I realized something that I've revisited over the

1011
01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:18.199
<v Speaker 2>years is you know, it's not the it's not the

1012
01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.239
<v Speaker 2>flag waving that's important. It's not Ay we're all for

1013
01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:23.280
<v Speaker 2>core and country. It's it's about the person that's to

1014
01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:25.840
<v Speaker 2>your left and right and the things that they're willing

1015
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.519
<v Speaker 2>to sacrifice to protect their comrades. And that's why that

1016
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:32.119
<v Speaker 2>there are some things that are work dying for.

1017
01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:38.519
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Seth, that was a very powerful ending to the book,

1018
01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:42.320
<v Speaker 1>because it's not only I think, part of the story

1019
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 1>of you and your team and the people that you

1020
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:49.440
<v Speaker 1>served with, but I think it's a deeper question you've

1021
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:53.360
<v Speaker 1>touched on about what an entire generation of us were

1022
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:55.840
<v Speaker 1>involved in and people are still involved in. I think

1023
01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:59.400
<v Speaker 1>that's a question that more people are going to have

1024
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to bring out out take into the light, and we

1025
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:05.840
<v Speaker 1>need to talk about it some more. And again, everybody,

1026
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:08.599
<v Speaker 1>I can't recommend enough Seth's book. You can go over

1027
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:10.840
<v Speaker 1>to Amazon and pre order it. It'll be out here

1028
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:15.480
<v Speaker 1>any moment this month. Nothing here worth dying for. And Seth,

1029
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:18.400
<v Speaker 1>if people wanted to trat see what you're up to,

1030
01:01:18.679 --> 01:01:20.880
<v Speaker 1>and I know this was a lot of work to

1031
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.519
<v Speaker 1>get here, but I don't know if you're you're working

1032
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:26.079
<v Speaker 1>on something else that you're looking at down the road.

1033
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:27.920
<v Speaker 1>But where can people keep an eye on you and

1034
01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.239
<v Speaker 1>what can they look forward to.

1035
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for that. You know, I used to have a

1036
01:01:33.400 --> 01:01:36.800
<v Speaker 2>website until Russian porn bots took it over, so I

1037
01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:40.679
<v Speaker 2>don't have a website anymore, but I do I have

1038
01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:44.880
<v Speaker 2>a I think I have a pretty significant presence on

1039
01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Twitter and on Blue Sky, sometimes on Instagram, but on

1040
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Twitter and Blue Sky I'm at s WB folsome and uh,

1041
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:57.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's that's a place where I like to

1042
01:01:57.079 --> 01:02:00.840
<v Speaker 2>make my color commentary. I try not to be over

1043
01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:03.039
<v Speaker 2>the top, but I also like to try to call

1044
01:02:03.119 --> 01:02:05.400
<v Speaker 2>things as they are. But that's that's where everybody can

1045
01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:09.320
<v Speaker 2>find me. Is at s w B fulsome, primarily on Twitter,

1046
01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:10.679
<v Speaker 2>X and blue Scott.

1047
01:02:11.840 --> 01:02:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, let me say too, it's a it's a really

1048
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:16.280
<v Speaker 3>good book. We've brought it back a lot of the

1049
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:19.079
<v Speaker 3>frustrations many of us who are of the Vietnam generation

1050
01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:24.039
<v Speaker 3>of service have about the frustration with and asking that

1051
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:26.920
<v Speaker 3>question why did we do the things the way we did,

1052
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:30.079
<v Speaker 3>which was good? And I'm glad to see that you've you've,

1053
01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:32.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, had kind of dealt with that. I should

1054
01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:34.639
<v Speaker 3>the way the rest have had too too. So anyway,

1055
01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:36.559
<v Speaker 3>I recommend the book to anybody who would like to

1056
01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:40.440
<v Speaker 3>read it. It's from the Naval Institute Press and you

1057
01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:43.320
<v Speaker 3>can get on Amazon. I think eighteen February, is that right?

1058
01:02:43.719 --> 01:02:46.519
<v Speaker 2>That is correct, eighteen February. It hits the shelf.

1059
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Perfect. Thanks again, Seth really enjoyed the conversation. Look forward

1060
01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:54.039
<v Speaker 1>to next time, and thank you everybody for joining us

1061
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:56.920
<v Speaker 1>for another edition of mid Rat And until next time,

1062
01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.480
<v Speaker 1>hope you have a great navy and marine corde.

1063
01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:09.920
<v Speaker 4>Cheers trus guys.

1064
01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:17.239
<v Speaker 5>Molly replied, worry Paddy, all mi my lonely one to

1065
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:22.239
<v Speaker 5>marry me, and all to leave a friend of becardily

1066
01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:27.639
<v Speaker 5>for you being to blame my lovely do love me,

1067
01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:31.840
<v Speaker 5>said Faulding, your tame.

1068
01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:39.199
<v Speaker 7>It's a long way to dippen It's a long way.

1069
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:47.159
<v Speaker 7>It's a long way to dippen Ary to the Queen.

1070
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:57.159
<v Speaker 5>God b becdi farewell lestwell.

1071
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:02.519
<v Speaker 7>It's a long long I took in the re but

1072
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:05.360
<v Speaker 7>my wand my bad