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<v Speaker 1>We have entered the holiday season where we get to

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<v Speaker 1>see the damage that religion does to families. For many,

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<v Speaker 1>this is an incredibly hard time when those who are

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<v Speaker 1>meant to love people most, even unconditionally, places set of

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<v Speaker 1>ancient beliefs and rituals before their own family members. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a season of giving, but it's also a season

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<v Speaker 1>of sorrow. If you're someone who has been alienated from

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<v Speaker 1>your family because of differing values in politics, remember to

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<v Speaker 1>stay connected to your community, and we hope that we

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<v Speaker 1>can be a part of that. If you're one of

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<v Speaker 1>those who thinks it's totally fine that religion is placed

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<v Speaker 1>above those who we are supposed to love, then give

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<v Speaker 1>us a call because the show is starting now.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, and welcome. It is December one, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>I am your host Objectively Dan and joining me today

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<v Speaker 2>on Talkievan is the wonderful Sophia Spinna and Jimmy Junior. Folks. Welcome,

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to another great week. Everybody snaps in the chat,

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<v Speaker 2>give those snap emojis out for Sophia's intro. There coming

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<v Speaker 2>in Hot. It's December, but she's coming in the hot, folks,

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<v Speaker 2>so get ready for that How do you guys do it?

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<v Speaker 2>How was your Thanksgiving?

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<v Speaker 1>It's good watch. Watched the new Netflix Hallmark style movie

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<v Speaker 1>Hot Frosty, which is not just a dirty term, even

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<v Speaker 1>though it.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds like it is that at Wendy's What the heck

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<v Speaker 2>is that does sound like it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like a woman magically makes a hot snowman

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<v Speaker 1>come to life, and then all the women in the

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<v Speaker 1>town are really into him and then he almost melts,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, classic classic quality.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't have flame powers. He's just a very attractive

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<v Speaker 2>He's a sexually attractive snowman.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is weird because he just came into consciousness like yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, that's a very it's a moral dilemma.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody deals with somebody with a frosty.

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<v Speaker 2>The snowman fetish got into the industry and was like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's time we got to make the dream reality. And

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<v Speaker 2>then this movie.

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<v Speaker 3>I love how the women don't even give the guy

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<v Speaker 3>a chance to like learn, they're just ready to jump

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<v Speaker 3>his bones.

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<v Speaker 2>This to me too, Am I just missing out? Is

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<v Speaker 2>this the latest trend? What's what's it's?

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<v Speaker 4>Now?

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<v Speaker 3>The guy gains consciousness and he's thrust into this uh

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<v Speaker 3>den of horny women.

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds really what happens to me every day.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you just gained consciousness.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's kind of like I get rebooted every day.

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<v Speaker 2>I since it's like a matrix stuff. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying. I'm just I'm just talking out my ass.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, Uh, this is talk Ethan, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>product in the atheist community of US today five O

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<v Speaker 2>one c nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism,

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<v Speaker 2>critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is a live call in show and we do,

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<v Speaker 2>in fact have open lines, so if you'd like to

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<v Speaker 2>call us, you can certainly do that now. It's at

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<v Speaker 2>five one two Fortune or call to your computer at

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<v Speaker 2>tiny dot c c slash call th H. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>just we're yucking at up here. But we do have

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<v Speaker 2>some fun stuff that you talk about because every week

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<v Speaker 2>we're asking you guys a question or prompt. It is

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<v Speaker 2>the talk Heathen segment to me, a talk Talk Heathen segment,

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<v Speaker 2>to me talk even to me segment. My goodness, I

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<v Speaker 2>got distracted by the one just.

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<v Speaker 1>Get gain consciousness just right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Outside of the show, I have no consciousness. I only

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<v Speaker 2>come around. It's kind of like that episode of Black Mirror,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, where they have the little consciousness slaves. I

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<v Speaker 2>just wake up every time a show happens. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's my whole backstory. But we do have our talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Heathen to me say, well, this is where we ask

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<v Speaker 2>you guys a question or a prompt every week, and

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<v Speaker 2>we had our top three answers last week. We asked

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<v Speaker 2>you guys, what do you think Jesus would say upon returning?

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<v Speaker 2>And here are our top three answers for that. Number

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<v Speaker 2>three comes from Miranda Rensberger, who says, when we finally

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<v Speaker 2>noticed that Jesus came back, he'll say, yeah, I've been

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<v Speaker 2>here for a while. Guys, why were you looking for

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<v Speaker 2>a blonde guy?

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<v Speaker 3>I really like that one. You know, we wouldn't even

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<v Speaker 3>know where to look. Most of the people who are

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<v Speaker 3>believers have no idea who it is they worship. That's

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<v Speaker 3>that's what that says.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've always I mean even when I was a Christian,

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<v Speaker 2>like you have to know, like, yeah, he wasn't like

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus was from like Europe, guys, like he was the least.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to tell you. But yeah, very

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<v Speaker 2>strange that people have this idea of Jesus as being

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<v Speaker 2>something else than what he would be. But number two

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<v Speaker 2>comes from Monkey at typewriter who says, Jesus will say

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<v Speaker 2>after the second Coming, was it good for you? And

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<v Speaker 2>we're just we're starting off to we're five minutes in

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<v Speaker 2>and we are horny today. Guys, he's crazy. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what's going on.

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<v Speaker 3>A Snowman movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus is the real hot frosty.

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus is the reason for the season. Baby, let me

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<v Speaker 2>tell you. That's uh, that's interesting, but very good answer

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<v Speaker 2>Monkey type right. And number one one comes from James

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<v Speaker 2>James l. Aarramer or James Larimer. I think it's James

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<v Speaker 2>Larimer who says, what would Jesus say upon returning Jesus Christ?

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<v Speaker 2>People take a guy's pulse before you seal him into

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<v Speaker 2>a fucking DOOMBI pretty good, Pretty good. And with those

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<v Speaker 2>answers out of the way, I want to thank you

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<v Speaker 2>guys for submitting your answers last week to our awesome prompt.

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<v Speaker 2>And this week's prompt is going to be what's the

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<v Speaker 2>difference between Jesus the Tooth Fairy and Sasquatch. So leave

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<v Speaker 2>your best answer below and we'll read the top three

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<v Speaker 2>for next week. But before we move on, I have

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<v Speaker 2>to ask you, guys, Sophia, Jimmy, what's the difference between

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus the tooth Fairy and Sasquatch. Anything.

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<v Speaker 1>There's some evidence for sasquatch.

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<v Speaker 2>Ooh.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm from the Northwest originally, so I feel like it

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<v Speaker 1>is a little bit of a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, Yeah, saline snapping mood today. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what's up with that, but yeah, no, I that's true.

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<v Speaker 2>We got more video evidence of Sasquatch that we do Jesus.

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<v Speaker 3>Yea, still still Sasquatch. Largely mythological evidence is subjective, no proof.

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<v Speaker 3>And here's my thing about these three, right, yeah, all

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<v Speaker 3>three largely mythological, right, But if you go down from

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<v Speaker 3>Jesus to Sasquatch, you get less extreme, right. So I

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<v Speaker 3>want to start in reverse. I want to go Sasquatch

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<v Speaker 3>really doesn't want much from people, wants to be left alone.

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<v Speaker 3>Tooth Fairy willing to interact if there's money involved, there's

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<v Speaker 3>a transaction. Jesus, drink my blood and keep my flesh.

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<v Speaker 3>What just happened? What just happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a big jump from teeth to like blood, right,

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<v Speaker 1>they're really requesting bodily you know, accoutrema.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, yeah, Now here's what I want to know.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there a community, because obviously there's a Sasquatch community, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Is there a community that does try to find video

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<v Speaker 2>evidence of the tooth Fairy that I am not aware

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<v Speaker 2>of that just exists south there, because that would be awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love to see really renders or people coming

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<v Speaker 2>up with for that.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no tooth fairy. Where did all of these teeth

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<v Speaker 1>I found from?

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<v Speaker 2>Huh? This is why the government is trying to hide. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>they don't want you to know. I have to mention money.

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<v Speaker 3>Completely serendipitous, not coordinated at all. But I was with

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<v Speaker 3>my parents for Thanksgiving a few days ago, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>and my mom gave me a note that I wrote

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<v Speaker 3>to the tooth Fairy when I was really little, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's because, uh, my mom forgot to leave money under

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<v Speaker 3>my pillow. So I wrote this note to the tooth

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<v Speaker 3>Fairy saying, dear tooth Fairy, you forgot to give me money,

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<v Speaker 3>So tonight I really would like it if you could

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<v Speaker 3>leave me money for my tooth your friend Jimmy. Uh

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<v Speaker 3>and so she gave that to me the other day.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought it was hilarious. Yeah you should.

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<v Speaker 2>You should listen. You owed double now you owe interest.

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<v Speaker 1>I was expecting an indignant note, but that was night.

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<v Speaker 2>This wholesome. What happened to that, Jimmy, you know, with

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<v Speaker 2>the wholesome Jimmy write in ours through the tooth Fairy.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what changed.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I realized Jesus was not real and I

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<v Speaker 3>lost it. I just lost it. Now, if I had

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<v Speaker 3>to write a letter to the tooth Fairy, you would

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<v Speaker 3>not want to read it.

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<v Speaker 5>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd write a very indignant letter to this creature. Yeah no,

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<v Speaker 2>that's great. Leave your comments below, guys on what you

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<v Speaker 2>think the difference is between Jesus, tooth Fair, and Sasquatch.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll read those top three answers next week. And

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<v Speaker 2>before we take our first call, I have to thank

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<v Speaker 2>the wonderful, awesome people that help make this show happen

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<v Speaker 2>every single week. It's not just us three, It is

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<v Speaker 2>actually a bunch more people. It is the crew that

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<v Speaker 2>helped make the show happen. There's our crew camp, a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of people on today, on this day of days.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you all for making it happen. And thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to the viewers at home who watch and support

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<v Speaker 2>the show through liking and subscribing and commenting, because that

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<v Speaker 2>helps the youlgorithm. It makes people want to watch more

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<v Speaker 2>of our stuff. So you guys are awesome for that.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a couple calls in the queue. If I

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<v Speaker 2>don't hear, if there are no objections, speak now or

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<v Speaker 2>forever holds your piece. We'll go ahead and get started

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<v Speaker 2>with our first call. Ready to go, Yes, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>let's do it. We got a couple of folks here.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to see this one because this one I

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<v Speaker 2>want to know where this one's going. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk to Michael, who's calling in from California. Michael, Oh, dang,

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<v Speaker 2>right into it. Holy grab Michael, you are live on talkie?

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<v Speaker 2>Then how are you doing this morning?

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<v Speaker 6>Fabulous? Thank you. You know, as a child, I could

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<v Speaker 6>not understand the story. It never made sense even then,

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<v Speaker 6>so I just let it go. Of course, I went

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<v Speaker 6>to Truth and Sunday School. But Sunday School. Now, when

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<v Speaker 6>I was about eight, they told me I couldn't come

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<v Speaker 6>to Sunday School anymore because I asked too many questions.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, my hand was always up, and so they said,

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<v Speaker 6>go to church. You can't come to Sunday school. So

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<v Speaker 6>that's what I did, but not regularly. I just didn't

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<v Speaker 6>believe this story. So but my real question is, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>God spoke a lot and talked. However, when it came

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<v Speaker 6>to Jesus, the only thing I ever heard him say was,

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<v Speaker 6>this is my son of who I am very pleased.

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<v Speaker 6>Where does God give Jesus the authority that Jesus has taken?

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<v Speaker 6>Like he said, you only get to the Father through me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I guess that's an interesting question. The

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<v Speaker 2>whole premise is kind of shot when you realize, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>any parts of the story could be you know, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of made up at any time, right, So, like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, the particular details to me kind of don't matter,

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<v Speaker 2>especially as you get later on to the gospel narratives.

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<v Speaker 2>There's an interesting chronology that happens when you find that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the first Part's Mark being the earliest that

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<v Speaker 2>most scholars consider the Gospels to be, and then Matthew

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<v Speaker 2>and Luke sort of written around the same time, and

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<v Speaker 2>then John. You sort of see this progression in like

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<v Speaker 2>the tall tales that are being told about Jesus. By

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<v Speaker 2>the time John hits he's basically a superhero. Like that's

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<v Speaker 2>where you hear about a lot of the extra stories

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<v Speaker 2>that happened with Jesus, whereas at least Mark is a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit more tame about stuff. So there's definitely a

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<v Speaker 2>mythology that's being built about Jesus after his death and

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<v Speaker 2>what he can do. As far as this story that

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about where God talks to him that happens

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<v Speaker 2>during the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist, which

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<v Speaker 2>is an earlier story that is found in March. So

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<v Speaker 2>as far as like when God directly speaks to Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>like in the Gospel accounts, I can't think of any

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<v Speaker 2>off the top of my head, but yeah, that is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of interesting that you point that out. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what do you guys think.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm no biblical scholar. I couldn't tell you one way

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<v Speaker 3>or the other. I just always thought that Jesus's power

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<v Speaker 3>was implied just by being the son of God.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>When I was a Christian, I think that's what I

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<v Speaker 1>thought too. Had all of that kind of the rehearse

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<v Speaker 1>evidence of well he fulfills biblical prophecy, which of course

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<v Speaker 1>is bizarre when you really look at it. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>very forced reading of prophecies to decide that they must

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<v Speaker 1>apply to Jesus. But that was something I know that

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<v Speaker 1>was part of my construct of belief at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think so much of it too came from

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<v Speaker 1>the church, right, Like when you think about stories of

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<v Speaker 1>people who have any kind of miracle in the past

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand years, it always feels very Jesus focused. And

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<v Speaker 1>so when I was a person who wanted to believe,

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<v Speaker 1>that was something that I would turn to. So it's interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>because you're totally right that there is not a point

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<v Speaker 1>that I can think of either that is actually God

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<v Speaker 1>saying hey, this is the dude, right. But it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>to look back and be like, oh, yeah, I just

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<v Speaker 1>took it as a given and had all of these

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<v Speaker 1>arguments for why other people should too.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, Well, good thing is a lot of people

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<v Speaker 6>don't know during that time Jesus is the son of God.

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<v Speaker 6>That's very interesting to me. It doesn't appear everybody asks

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<v Speaker 6>him who he is, and it's like only Jesus knows

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<v Speaker 6>this and his mother. I mean, what goes on there.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's not that's not specifically true, right, because well,

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<v Speaker 2>at least within that what's told in the narrative, because

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<v Speaker 2>the actual baptism occurs because legend bum the narrative perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>John the Baptist does say, Hey, Jesus, this is the guy.

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<v Speaker 2>He is the one that was prophesied about, right, and

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<v Speaker 2>so that baptism occurs and occurs with other people seeing it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because Jesus is the son of God. So

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<v Speaker 2>it is like implied, at least in at that point

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<v Speaker 2>that he is something beyond. But like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>like it's it's it's it's not something that everybody universally

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<v Speaker 2>would agree upon.

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<v Speaker 6>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>If we had a prophet that came today and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the next coming of Jesus, we would all also

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<v Speaker 2>have some some doubts. Right. The Jewish people at the

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<v Speaker 2>time obviously had doubts that this Jesus guy was this

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<v Speaker 2>guy that was being fulfilled prophecy right in text. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a reason why Jewish people are still around today.

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<v Speaker 2>It's because they don't think Jesus is that guy. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was always controversial at least his appearance there. It

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<v Speaker 2>was never widely accepted. I think even Christian scholars would

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<v Speaker 2>recognize that, but yeah, it is. It is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>interesting because it's like, Okay, you're the guy. How do

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<v Speaker 2>you convince people you're the guy? I guess you do miracles?

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<v Speaker 2>But outside of that, it's not like he like sent

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<v Speaker 2>a message to everybody in the world, Like he didn't

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<v Speaker 2>tell that the native people's and other praises. He just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of went around, you know, the Middle East a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit and told everybody there. You'd think if he

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<v Speaker 2>was the guy, he would want to bring that to everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not how that worked out.

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<v Speaker 6>However, after Jesus died and was resurrections, then the apostles

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<v Speaker 6>len around creating miracles too, So that doesn't make Jesus

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<v Speaker 6>really spectful because they were making miracles, they raised people

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<v Speaker 6>from them again, they give things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they I guess they. I guess a Christian

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<v Speaker 2>might say they weren't without sin, though you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I'm not a Christian. It all doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 2>to me.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of one of those like here we

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<v Speaker 1>are going for it right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm playing both sides here, Michael, that's how I win.

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<v Speaker 6>Where authority come from?

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<v Speaker 2>Where is Jesus already come from? You had to ask Christian, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus has your authority over my life right now. I

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<v Speaker 2>could care less about the opinions of Jesus and his followers. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And Michael, I'm getting I'm getting like a little confused

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<v Speaker 3>about are you asking in the context of just like

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<v Speaker 3>playing devil's advocate, or are you asking because you are

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<v Speaker 3>honestly trying to figure out the answer, or like, is

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<v Speaker 3>this something you believe.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm not.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not kind of clear on what your what point

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<v Speaker 3>you're coming from.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, I do not believe he was the son of God.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't believe in God. However, as a person that

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<v Speaker 6>doesn't believe, I think that we probably know the Bible

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<v Speaker 6>better than the everyday.

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<v Speaker 3>Christian and I am that's what they say for this.

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<v Speaker 6>Answer, and I can't find I've asked Christians and they

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<v Speaker 6>walk around and it's like nobody has the answer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so as far as I know, like Jesus talks

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<v Speaker 3>about being the son of God in the Gospels, right,

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<v Speaker 3>So there's like the literal text and then there's historically

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<v Speaker 3>what we can talk about and are you asking you

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<v Speaker 3>know or are you are you differentiating between what the

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<v Speaker 3>Bible says versus what we think happened in reality, because

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<v Speaker 3>you're saying, well, it wasn't Jesus doing these things, it

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<v Speaker 3>was the apostles doing these things, and the apostles made

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<v Speaker 3>up all these things. But in the Bible, in the text,

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<v Speaker 3>if we take it at face value, Jesus is the

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<v Speaker 3>one doing these things too. And yeah, I would say

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<v Speaker 3>that me being a former Christian, the implication was always

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<v Speaker 3>that Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecies of the

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<v Speaker 3>Book of Isaiah right in the Old Testament, and now

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<v Speaker 3>because he is God's son has powers of God, which

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<v Speaker 3>of course Jewish people would contest and to dance point,

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<v Speaker 3>that's why they're still Jewish. But what I think the

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<v Speaker 3>answer is there, you're looking for something a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>more obvious.

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<v Speaker 8>Huh.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, because God said that shall have me. No other

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<v Speaker 6>God's performing, and yet everybody's pretty e gugeous as though

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<v Speaker 6>he were God.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's why the Trinity was constructed to some degree,

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<v Speaker 1>is that it enabled people to worship Jesus and not

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<v Speaker 1>feel like they're placing someone before God. And there are

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<v Speaker 1>Christian offshoots like the Remnant Fellowship I know in Tennessee

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<v Speaker 1>where they talk about how like they don't believe that,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's a big deal because other Christians would point

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<v Speaker 1>out that essentially, if Jesus isn't God's son, then his

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<v Speaker 1>sacrifice didn't really count. So a lot really depends on

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<v Speaker 1>this idea that Jesus is God. And so I guess

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<v Speaker 1>if you were looking for a source of authority, it

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<v Speaker 1>would have to partially be that that Jesus must be

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<v Speaker 1>God so we can worship him. And so his sacrifice

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<v Speaker 1>was big enough I guess to cover all people from sin.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think also most simply, you know, where does

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus get his authority? He doesn't. I think that's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of what you end up with a good point.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Sophia brings up an excellent point about the

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<v Speaker 2>trinity and it's construct later. But yeah, what you just

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<v Speaker 2>point out as well, Michael, is a criticism that Jews

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<v Speaker 2>have laid upon Jesus because there is no actual text

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<v Speaker 2>that indicates that the Messiah figure as described in Isaiah

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<v Speaker 2>is supposed to be the son of God. That's something

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<v Speaker 2>that Jewish people bring up in their arguments and saying

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<v Speaker 2>that Jesus isn't it. It's like, that's not a thing.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a Christian idea, right, that's not a Jewish idea

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<v Speaker 2>that the Messiah would be the literal son of God.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there's there's Christians have obviously interpreted the text

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<v Speaker 2>that way, but Jewish scripture is notorious for having many

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<v Speaker 2>different interpretations by many groups of people that made different times.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, your results may vary on that.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, it's just the whole story. It's just ba when

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<v Speaker 6>when there were the three of them were on across,

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<v Speaker 6>which should have been a state, not across anyway, Jesus

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<v Speaker 6>turns to the one and says, on this day you

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<v Speaker 6>will be with me in paradize. But Jesus didn't go

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<v Speaker 6>to paradize that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you, Michael. I

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<v Speaker 2>could talk about Bible contradictions with you all day, but

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<v Speaker 2>you're apreacher to the choir here. You know, you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not going to convince us anymore that God that

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus ain't the one, you know, So I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>where else you want to take this call, Michael. But

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<v Speaker 2>like if you just want to say, like, hey, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think Jesus is on God, Like, yeah, I agree

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<v Speaker 2>with you. I don't. I don't see that to be

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily the case.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, I wonder if anybody knew where he got

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<v Speaker 6>his authorities, because I don't find it anywhere that he

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<v Speaker 6>has the authority to say I am the son of

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<v Speaker 6>God and of I have the power to bring you

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<v Speaker 6>to God over.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it is John the Baptist. The answer is

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<v Speaker 2>John the Baptist. That is the answer that people would

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<v Speaker 2>would argue for. I think if I was a Christropologist,

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<v Speaker 2>because John the Baptist is supposed to be a good guy,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we're supposed to rely on his words allegedly

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<v Speaker 2>because he was also kind of doing some stuff. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's what a Christian would say.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd say, if you're a Christian watching call in, and

402
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<v Speaker 1>if you have an explanation for this, then great. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we're also in that space where it's very unsatisfying

404
00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.319
<v Speaker 1>to be looking for an answer to question like this,

405
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.799
<v Speaker 1>because millions of people believe in these things, and so

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<v Speaker 1>when you actually ask, like where does this come from,

407
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<v Speaker 1>it's tempting to just keep going until you can find

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00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>a reasonable explanation because so many people can't possibly believe

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<v Speaker 1>something that has no real even claim that it's true.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, it's really unsatisfying. But I think that I

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<v Speaker 1>think you've you're doing a search that I am very

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with, which is to look for a reasonable explanation

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<v Speaker 1>for why people buy into this when I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>that there always is one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Michael, I think we are going to go ahead

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<v Speaker 2>and let you go because we do have a ton

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<v Speaker 2>of other folks that want to speak to us. But

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<v Speaker 2>I do appreciate you calling in and giving your perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it is kind of an interesting question, like

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<v Speaker 2>what is where does this authority come from? How did

421
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.519
<v Speaker 2>they come to this idea that he was the son

422
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:25.880
<v Speaker 2>of God? Because obviously the Gospels had to be written

423
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.880
<v Speaker 2>by people who believe that right, or at least had

424
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.759
<v Speaker 2>come to that narrative at some point, right, So where

425
00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:34.839
<v Speaker 2>does that origin come from? I think that's more akin

426
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.240
<v Speaker 2>to biblical scholars that could probably give better answers than

427
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.279
<v Speaker 2>even we could. I will say this. You did make

428
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.599
<v Speaker 2>the comment that, oh, non believers tend to know more

429
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.240
<v Speaker 2>about the Bible, and I think that's true. In America

430
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe globally. I don't know if that's the case. I've

431
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.599
<v Speaker 2>had some ignorant conversations with the atheists just as much

432
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 2>as I've had with Christians. It doesn't happen as often,

433
00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you that, but it definitely does happen from

434
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.440
<v Speaker 2>folks who think they know it all when they get

435
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.799
<v Speaker 2>all their talking points from YouTube videos and not from

436
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.319
<v Speaker 2>like people who like I don't know, write books. So

437
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:04.119
<v Speaker 2>you know.

438
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:06.559
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying don't get all their talking points from us,

439
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:06.920
<v Speaker 1>is that?

440
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.160
<v Speaker 2>No, definitely don't.

441
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.240
<v Speaker 7>But I mean, you know, I think that's that's such

442
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.039
<v Speaker 7>an inflated, uh interpretation, because I think a lot of

443
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:17.960
<v Speaker 7>a lot of people who were once believers find their

444
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.200
<v Speaker 7>way into atheism by reading the Bible.

445
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.400
<v Speaker 3>But that in no way makes them an expert on

446
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 3>the Bible. Like I can attest to that, like I

447
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:27.200
<v Speaker 3>read the Bible. I've read it front to back, I've

448
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.480
<v Speaker 3>studied the Bible. I forgot more than I've probably covered,

449
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:32.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, in my years. So I I you know,

450
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm no, I'm no expert in I couldn't say I

451
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.880
<v Speaker 3>know it better than a clergy member. So I don't know.

452
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, true, that true? That we have a bunch

453
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.319
<v Speaker 2>of folks who want to talk to us today. I'm

454
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.519
<v Speaker 2>so excited to talk to all of you guys. But

455
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:46.599
<v Speaker 2>real quickly, before we move on to our next call,

456
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.160
<v Speaker 2>I have to tell you guys about our brick frund raiser.

457
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.480
<v Speaker 2>You've probably heard about this. We've been doing a fundraiser

458
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>to help literally rebuild parts of the ACA building and

459
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.960
<v Speaker 2>we want to highlight some of the bricks that come

460
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>from donations from viewers like you. Our brick that's featured

461
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:05.680
<v Speaker 2>today comes from Casey, who says future atheists, you freed

462
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.440
<v Speaker 2>us all humanity lou Dynasty foundations, So thank you for

463
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 2>your purchase, Casey, And if you'd like to get your

464
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.519
<v Speaker 2>own brick, you can do that. It's a tiny down

465
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.640
<v Speaker 2>CC slash ACA bricks to help literally rebuild the building.

466
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Another way to support us is by sending in super chats.

467
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>And I know we've got a couple of super chats

468
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:24.559
<v Speaker 2>that we need to read out and we'll do that

469
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.680
<v Speaker 2>in just a second. If we get ten super chats

470
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.640
<v Speaker 2>for five dollars today, folks, this is the challenge. Ten

471
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.279
<v Speaker 2>super chats with five dollars, we will show you never

472
00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:39.440
<v Speaker 2>before seeing photos of us, Me, Sophia and Jimmy when

473
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:43.200
<v Speaker 2>we were children. And this is going to be happening,

474
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I think across all of the other shows we'll see,

475
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:47.720
<v Speaker 2>but for now, you get that today. If you want

476
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>to see us in particular, we need to get those

477
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.519
<v Speaker 2>donations in otherwise they're not happening. We're putting them back

478
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.440
<v Speaker 2>in the vault, the same vault where they lock up

479
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.759
<v Speaker 2>all the Disney movies and they release them after a

480
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:00.400
<v Speaker 2>couple of years. That's what we're putting our pictures. So

481
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.599
<v Speaker 2>you're never going to find them unless Disney Disney.

482
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I think American Girl Doll do that now too. They're

483
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.480
<v Speaker 1>going to be sitting there, Samantha.

484
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:10.640
<v Speaker 3>You want to see my photo? You want to see me?

485
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 5>Really?

486
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.680
<v Speaker 3>Do you really want to see it?

487
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.279
<v Speaker 2>I would say both of your photos are very strong,

488
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:20.880
<v Speaker 2>very strong pitch. Yeah, so yeah, please please consider it

489
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:24.680
<v Speaker 2>donating for that, and I'll do these other announcements in

490
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.640
<v Speaker 2>second I will do these super chats right now that

491
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.400
<v Speaker 2>we have a super chat A five dollars from Katub

492
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:34.039
<v Speaker 2>who says, woke up atheist again. Braisee Cod, so thank

493
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:34.640
<v Speaker 2>you so much.

494
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:38.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm partner.

495
00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 3>You have some cod you know, creative.

496
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Another one from Nero who gave five dollars and said,

497
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.359
<v Speaker 2>I want to see Junior, Jimmy Junior and finally know

498
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:50.119
<v Speaker 2>what his hair color is from a chaos screblin in

499
00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:54.119
<v Speaker 2>the Bible. Belt damn. And then another one from ten

500
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.519
<v Speaker 2>dollars from Miranda Ronsberger. I said, damn because of this

501
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:58.839
<v Speaker 2>one too. He says, what color is Jimmy's hair? If

502
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>atheism is a religion, bald as a hair color. Yeah,

503
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.400
<v Speaker 2>everybody's talking about Jimmy's head today. Yo.

504
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:04.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

505
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Let me tell you something. Five times, five times I

506
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.079
<v Speaker 3>have picked my son up from daycare and other kids

507
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.640
<v Speaker 3>have pointed at me and said, look, no hair that

508
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:16.440
<v Speaker 3>is true. That is true.

509
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:16.759
<v Speaker 6>You know.

510
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.160
<v Speaker 3>I get this. I get this everywhere I go. And

511
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.599
<v Speaker 3>I can understand why there's a story in the Bible

512
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.880
<v Speaker 3>with God, with God sending bears water for making fun

513
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 3>of the balls now and you know what, Miranda, you

514
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 3>better watch out for bears now. I'm just kidding. We

515
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 3>love you, Miranda, We love you.

516
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, wow, wow, amazing. Thank you guys so

517
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 2>much for the donation so far, and again specifically, we're

518
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.519
<v Speaker 2>working for those five dollars donations. Five dollars if we

519
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:48.000
<v Speaker 2>get ten five dollars donations. Today we will release the

520
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.920
<v Speaker 2>vault and show you the true color of Jimmy's hair.

521
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:57.319
<v Speaker 2>So look forward to that. And man, that's so awesome.

522
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.559
<v Speaker 2>That's really awesome. I'll do the rest of these announcement

523
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.319
<v Speaker 2>later because you know, we got so many of them.

524
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Let's just go ahead and go to our next call.

525
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.119
<v Speaker 2>I think, gosh, we got a couple of different ones.

526
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Do you guys have a pick? I know you guys

527
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.400
<v Speaker 2>have them. I like you like to. Okay, you gotta vote, Sophie,

528
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.839
<v Speaker 2>you want to to.

529
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I like surprises, so okay, all right.

530
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Well then this won't be a surprise, I guess because

531
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:23.119
<v Speaker 2>I will pick number two. We have Steven calling in

532
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.160
<v Speaker 2>from New York. Steven, you are live on Talk Heathen.

533
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.799
<v Speaker 2>What's going on?

534
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.519
<v Speaker 8>Hey? I believe magic exists because a lot of things

535
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:36.079
<v Speaker 8>in nature are too well organized, like, for example, a flower,

536
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.279
<v Speaker 8>like a rose, for example, grows the stem grows out

537
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:44.359
<v Speaker 8>of soil, and it's form, and a bud forms, and

538
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 8>then it blossoms, and when it blooms, the pedals have

539
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:55.799
<v Speaker 8>a symmetrical placement, and and and it's too it's too

540
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.759
<v Speaker 8>elaborate to be natural. Why because the things are natural,

541
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:01.640
<v Speaker 8>they shouldn't be.

542
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 2>They can be elaborate. Natural things can't be elaborate. Is

543
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:07.119
<v Speaker 2>that what you're saying?

544
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, it should if it's natural, it should just be

545
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.839
<v Speaker 8>dirt and soil.

546
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:11.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean.

547
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:16.799
<v Speaker 8>Besides it being inexplicable, Like I have.

548
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:21.359
<v Speaker 2>A question, Hold on, it is explicable, right, Like? Why

549
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.000
<v Speaker 2>why are you saying it's inexplicable?

550
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 8>I mean I've never seen it explained.

551
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, that doesn't make it inexplicable.

552
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Why you've never seen why the why flowers are radial?

553
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever looked it up? Have you ever consulted

554
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>any resources on it?

555
00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.599
<v Speaker 8>Not for that specifically, but I did look up some

556
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.480
<v Speaker 8>stuff about I guess physics.

557
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.759
<v Speaker 3>You guess physics. I mean that doesn't sound like in

558
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.559
<v Speaker 3>depth research. You owe yourself a little bit more.

559
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like, if we're gonna go around and Steven, if

560
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.519
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna go around and say everything is built on magic,

561
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I think we at least need to look into that

562
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a little bit, right, Like we should probably look into

563
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:02.079
<v Speaker 2>what other people have said about how flowers came to be,

564
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.519
<v Speaker 2>because I feel like that's a pretty big deal, right If,

565
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:06.880
<v Speaker 2>like the whole world runs on magic that might change

566
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 2>how I do things a little bit.

567
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.759
<v Speaker 8>What is the incentivizing future of nature that that.

568
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:17.960
<v Speaker 1>It's not about to Uh, that's not okay, Oh, Sophia,

569
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:20.559
<v Speaker 1>go go okay. So it's not about incentives. I think

570
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.160
<v Speaker 1>that sometimes when we talk about how things have come

571
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.759
<v Speaker 1>to be, we overinflate this idea that, like, you know,

572
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.960
<v Speaker 1>a flower wanted to become symmetrical, Like, there's not that

573
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.880
<v Speaker 1>desire when it comes to natural selection or how things

574
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:36.119
<v Speaker 1>have come to evolve. When you look at something like

575
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:40.319
<v Speaker 1>a flower, you're looking at something that has it survived

576
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:43.119
<v Speaker 1>to this day? Right, it's it's fairly. It must have

577
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 1>been efficient, it must have outcompeted other things. And if

578
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 1>doing things in a symmetrical manner for a flower that

579
00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:53.400
<v Speaker 1>was the most efficient, then that's the flower that survived.

580
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.400
<v Speaker 1>So we look at things in nature that are chaotic

581
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:01.480
<v Speaker 1>or disorganized and say that that I don't know, say

582
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 1>that maybe that's it gone wrong. There are things in

583
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 1>nature that are disorganized. I think of how much inefficiency

584
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:10.200
<v Speaker 1>is in nature. I think about I feel like I'm

585
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.720
<v Speaker 1>becoming known for talking about pregnancy, like how often miscarriages

586
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.359
<v Speaker 1>happened because the fetuses is not viable, and that's spontaneous,

587
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:21.519
<v Speaker 1>and it happens so much more than people realize. That's

588
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.559
<v Speaker 1>that's disorganized, that's chaotic. There's quite a bit of chaos here.

589
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:29.240
<v Speaker 1>So when we're looking at something that is successful, like

590
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.039
<v Speaker 1>a flower, like a baby, like you know, choose anything

591
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.039
<v Speaker 1>in nature, we're looking at something that's organized because that

592
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:37.400
<v Speaker 1>was the way that it did survive. I'm not sure

593
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.440
<v Speaker 1>if I'm being as clear as I would like to be,

594
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:42.119
<v Speaker 1>but we can look at things and say, wow, that's incredible,

595
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.599
<v Speaker 1>but it's billions of years to become that incredible. It's

596
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.519
<v Speaker 1>not like pop up flower done that would feel like magic.

597
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.920
<v Speaker 1>But we have reasons to believe that it didn't occur

598
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:52.559
<v Speaker 1>that way.

599
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.799
<v Speaker 8>But like, how can you prove that that the world,

600
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.559
<v Speaker 8>just the earth, just the things in the earth just

601
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:06.039
<v Speaker 8>came about through nature. I think that's an assumption as well.

602
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:08.759
<v Speaker 2>We've got a couple of different things here. There's the

603
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.799
<v Speaker 2>idea that there's a concept that Young Earth creationists talk about,

604
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.119
<v Speaker 2>which is well in Young Earth creation is I don't

605
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 2>think Young Earth creation is bringing this up. It's called

606
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.079
<v Speaker 2>Last thursdayism, and it's this idea you can't prove that

607
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>the Earth wasn't creative the last Thursday, right, And people

608
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:23.599
<v Speaker 2>will be like, well, what about all this evidence that's

609
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.200
<v Speaker 2>a dinosaur bones stuff like that, And people say, well,

610
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.160
<v Speaker 2>that was just crazy to look like it was old, right,

611
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, I can't prove to you that things

612
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>on this Earth weren't looked like to grid that they

613
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.960
<v Speaker 2>were old, or that there weren't patterns or a history.

614
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.200
<v Speaker 2>But I can show that there at least has the

615
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:41.759
<v Speaker 2>appearance of things having a history. And we can do

616
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.200
<v Speaker 2>that with plants and animals. Right, we have an entire

617
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 2>evolutionary history that occurs, and we can at least observe

618
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:50.799
<v Speaker 2>some of the mechanics that do happen in nature that

619
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:54.200
<v Speaker 2>help us form the things that we see. Cells don't

620
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.880
<v Speaker 2>just change. Sometimes they change seemingly randomly, but sometimes they

621
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:02.240
<v Speaker 2>change because of specific environmental factors, and sometimes they change

622
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:06.920
<v Speaker 2>because of pressures other than their environment that that that

623
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.079
<v Speaker 2>occur in these things. And and and the same rules

624
00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>apply to cells like they do to people, like they

625
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 2>do to everything living on Earth. We have a history.

626
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.640
<v Speaker 2>There is an entire field of paleontology that just looks

627
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.079
<v Speaker 2>at how flowers evolve on this earth. And and you

628
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:24.559
<v Speaker 2>can find some really interesting things by people way more

629
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.599
<v Speaker 2>knowledgeable than us on us And I'd rather hear what

630
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.200
<v Speaker 2>they have to say and hear what their conclusions come

631
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>to than just kind of throw it all up in

632
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>the air and says, well, I don't know, so it

633
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.240
<v Speaker 2>must be magic, right, because that's kind of like what

634
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:37.160
<v Speaker 2>this sounds like. We're just kind of saying, oh, well,

635
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.519
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of weird. I don't know how this works.

636
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Magic must be the miss explanation.

637
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 8>When I looked it up, it.

638
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Said the.

639
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 8>Kinetic energy moves atoms, But like what makes the energy?

640
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Uh?

641
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:51.240
<v Speaker 8>What causes it of motion?

642
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.160
<v Speaker 3>That?

643
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:54.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that doesn't yeah.

644
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 3>But what why? So here's the here's the problem I

645
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:01.119
<v Speaker 3>have with that. Let's say you don't understand right, or

646
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.000
<v Speaker 3>you don't know the answer to that question that you're asking,

647
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.079
<v Speaker 3>why is it magic? The answer? Why? And I'm going

648
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 3>to equate that to God? Why is God the answer?

649
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.359
<v Speaker 3>And I like that you used plants, So I mean,

650
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:17.839
<v Speaker 3>let's just look at plants. Okay, five hundred years ago,

651
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:21.160
<v Speaker 3>we had no idea, We maybe had somewhat of an

652
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.000
<v Speaker 3>idea that you could probably put plants together or drop

653
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 3>seeds and they would come up, but we really had

654
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.599
<v Speaker 3>no idea about how that worked, and people attributed God

655
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:35.319
<v Speaker 3>to that. Right, and then we took some scientific methods

656
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.720
<v Speaker 3>to explain better explain the cycle of a plant's life. Right,

657
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.039
<v Speaker 3>we figured out that a plant can be broken down

658
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:47.079
<v Speaker 3>into cells, and it has excuse me, it could make

659
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 3>its own its own food, It uses light, it has

660
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:53.559
<v Speaker 3>photos synthesis. And then we didn't really know much more

661
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:55.960
<v Speaker 3>beyond that, and we went, well, that's what God wanted.

662
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.559
<v Speaker 3>And then you know, we broke it down further. Okay,

663
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:01.960
<v Speaker 3>it's got cells. Then inside the cells it's got molecules,

664
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.240
<v Speaker 3>and the molecules are formed by atoms, and the atoms

665
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.559
<v Speaker 3>have sub atomic particles, and we don't get any further

666
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.839
<v Speaker 3>than that, and then we go, ah, because God wanted

667
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.880
<v Speaker 3>it that way. You know, this is the the argument

668
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.079
<v Speaker 3>from from ignorance. Really, you don't you can't answer. You

669
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:18.480
<v Speaker 3>have to stop at some point, so you just tack

670
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.680
<v Speaker 3>God at the end, no matter what it is, you

671
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.440
<v Speaker 3>just tack God on at the end, and you really

672
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.960
<v Speaker 3>don't get any closer to explaining what you're talking about.

673
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.200
<v Speaker 3>And so you have come to a point where you

674
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.720
<v Speaker 3>can't get beyond that point. I think I have come

675
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:33.960
<v Speaker 3>to a point in the example I gave I can't

676
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 3>get beyond it, but I don't insert God. So I

677
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 3>guess my question to you after all that, why do

678
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 3>you insert God there?

679
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:48.920
<v Speaker 8>Well, I mean, it doesn't it can't be like it

680
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:54.599
<v Speaker 8>can't things can't come together and form these types of

681
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:58.519
<v Speaker 8>things can have a composition like they do.

682
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.079
<v Speaker 3>And how do you know that?

683
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:01.759
<v Speaker 8>How do you know that?

684
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.720
<v Speaker 3>I think Sophia just gave you a really good explanation

685
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:09.440
<v Speaker 3>about all of the imperfections that exist out there that

686
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:12.880
<v Speaker 3>seem to lack organization. So how do you how do

687
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:17.119
<v Speaker 3>you negotiate between those two points? You're saying that things

688
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.960
<v Speaker 3>are so organized they must have a creator. Well, A,

689
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.079
<v Speaker 3>we don't know that organization leads to magic or a creator,

690
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.880
<v Speaker 3>and B there are so many things that are unorganized

691
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.679
<v Speaker 3>or disorganized that they don't you know, that would render

692
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:33.760
<v Speaker 3>your argument incomplete or incorrect. How do you how do

693
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:35.239
<v Speaker 3>you justify.

694
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:39.360
<v Speaker 8>That maybe the consciousness is faint, maybe it's a weak consciousness.

695
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.159
<v Speaker 8>Maybe you know, maybe it's it doesn't know how to

696
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 8>make it perfect.

697
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean, at that point, we're just kind of in

698
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.199
<v Speaker 1>fantasy storybook territory, you know, where it's just like, oh,

699
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.440
<v Speaker 1>it's a there's a being that's trying to operate the

700
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.440
<v Speaker 1>best interest of the world, but chaos is tearing it

701
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.119
<v Speaker 1>apart instead, And I'm like, okay, like why not have

702
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:00.920
<v Speaker 1>it be zeus? Like I think that there's kind of

703
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.679
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of an unseerious conversation at that point. It

704
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:06.840
<v Speaker 1>sounds like you have a good premise to a fantasy novel.

705
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.840
<v Speaker 1>But it also sounds like there's a lot of your

706
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 1>questions that you could google. If you're wondering about how

707
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.760
<v Speaker 1>plants evolve, there's a ton of information out there that's

708
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:18.599
<v Speaker 1>really interesting. There's a ton of great scientific educators out

709
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 1>there who can tell.

710
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 2>You about it.

711
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that the more you try to bring up

712
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.119
<v Speaker 1>specific things, it's kind of like you're sort of missing

713
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.840
<v Speaker 1>our basic point, which is that assuming God because you

714
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.800
<v Speaker 1>personally do not know is pretty faulty logic.

715
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

716
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 8>The reason, I mean I called it magic because I

717
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.719
<v Speaker 8>don't really anthropomorphize it, like I saw God was like

718
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:44.559
<v Speaker 8>more personified. But but yeah, you might be right. Yeah,

719
00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:50.119
<v Speaker 8>I mean I looked up a few things on Google,

720
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:53.880
<v Speaker 8>and I don't know, I wasn't satisfied with the answers.

721
00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, there is a I guarantee you right now, there

722
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is a there's one paleobotanist that watched this show that

723
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 2>is screaming their goddamn head off right now saying, hey,

724
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:06.960
<v Speaker 2>look in, look into the field of work that I

725
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>do every single day for a living, right, I guarante, like,

726
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:13.840
<v Speaker 2>give science a chance. Okay, give it a little bit

727
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:16.840
<v Speaker 2>more thought, right, look into some more stuff. I promise

728
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>you you're gonna find some more explanations to stuff that

729
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.840
<v Speaker 2>you thought maybe didn't have explanations, but but maybe do.

730
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.800
<v Speaker 2>And maybe you won't have all the answers. Maybe you'll

731
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:26.199
<v Speaker 2>still have some questions. That's fine. But in terms of

732
00:36:26.239 --> 00:36:28.960
<v Speaker 2>like plant evolution, come on, man, you gotta you got

733
00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:31.320
<v Speaker 2>you gotta put some more effort into that before we

734
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.000
<v Speaker 2>jump to the magic train. Right at least that's my opinion, Steven. So,

735
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know any other thoughts you had for us

736
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>before we let you go today?

737
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:40.480
<v Speaker 8>Uh not really?

738
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:40.719
<v Speaker 3>No?

739
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, thanks for calling, and you know we're not

740
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>trying to talk on you too hard, Stephen. But when

741
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:50.480
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about literal magic, right, like, you can't use

742
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.599
<v Speaker 2>the observations of science and be like, oh, this has

743
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:57.079
<v Speaker 2>to be impossible because of science, Like, no, there's other

744
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.639
<v Speaker 2>things to science that can tell us all kinds of

745
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.320
<v Speaker 2>things too, right, Like, it's just very interesting that you

746
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:05.440
<v Speaker 2>do at least have some principles of science, like you

747
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.519
<v Speaker 2>do think, Okay, this seems to be impossible based on

748
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:09.519
<v Speaker 2>some kinds of observation. So there must be some sort

749
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>of method by which you've come to your conclusion.

750
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 9>And I and I.

751
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Guarantee you there's people who have been doing a lot

752
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.320
<v Speaker 2>of work every day on stuff that you wouldn't even

753
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.480
<v Speaker 2>begin to think about. I wouldn't begin to think about

754
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:22.599
<v Speaker 2>that have answered a lot of questions that are, you know,

755
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:25.840
<v Speaker 2>maybe not applicable to our daily lives, but are important

756
00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>for grander sort of knowledge. Schema that would love to

757
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:33.000
<v Speaker 2>tell you about the evolution of flowers. So on that note,

758
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:37.000
<v Speaker 2>let's let's keep it moving. I do have some super

759
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 2>chance for us. Another one from Miranda Rensberger, who gave

760
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.760
<v Speaker 2>five dollars and said, on the upside, Jimmy, at least

761
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:49.440
<v Speaker 2>your head is a nice shape. Miranda is starting Wars today.

762
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I think that's nice.

763
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she feels bad, she feels bad that she insulted

764
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:56.320
<v Speaker 3>my baldness and she.

765
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't want to get attacked by bears.

766
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, right, so she's given me something nice. I

767
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.360
<v Speaker 3>can work with that. Thank you, Miranda.

768
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Have you been a piece, Jimmy? Have you been a piece?

769
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:05.280
<v Speaker 2>You think so?

770
00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.079
<v Speaker 3>I think I'll pull off God's bears?

771
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.599
<v Speaker 4>Okay, all right, but.

772
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:13.079
<v Speaker 2>You still have that ability, so just FYI don't miss

773
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:18.400
<v Speaker 2>jim seeking he's got that power. Number. I don't want

774
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 2>to say number. We have another one from Jim Costs

775
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:23.119
<v Speaker 2>who gave nine to ninety nine. Thank you so much

776
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.880
<v Speaker 2>for that and says how much to not see pictures?

777
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:30.960
<v Speaker 3>We'll find out. Yeah, yeah, it was.

778
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:33.239
<v Speaker 2>One thousand dollars and we won't show pictures. That's fine,

779
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.599
<v Speaker 2>or have it or one hundred one hundred and wait

780
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.800
<v Speaker 2>we get we're doing ten five dollars donations, right, so

781
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:41.199
<v Speaker 2>that's what fifty So if you give us fifty five dollars,

782
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:44.280
<v Speaker 2>then we won't do it. How does that sound rightly?

783
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>I liked the goal of a thousand? Why not keep it?

784
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 9>Eye?

785
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:47.400
<v Speaker 6>Why not?

786
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who's just giving out one thousand dollars

787
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.159
<v Speaker 2>on a Sunday afternoon, But hey, if you got it,

788
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:55.760
<v Speaker 2>why not?

789
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

790
00:38:57.199 --> 00:38:57.400
<v Speaker 6>You know?

791
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, good to point out that we are volunteers

792
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 2>for the Atheist Community of Boston as a nonprofit. We

793
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:06.519
<v Speaker 2>do not personally receive any of that money, but we

794
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.920
<v Speaker 2>donate our pictures anyway because we were about it. You know,

795
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.800
<v Speaker 2>activism is about two things, call in shows and get

796
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.920
<v Speaker 2>pictures of yourself for donation, rallies or whatever, and that's it.

797
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.199
<v Speaker 2>There's no other forms in which you can partake and

798
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.000
<v Speaker 2>real quickly, I do have some other announcements that I

799
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.639
<v Speaker 2>should probably get through. We have a channel that houses

800
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:29.920
<v Speaker 2>all of the shows of the ACA in audio podcast form.

801
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 2>If you want to check it out. It's a tiny

802
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.800
<v Speaker 2>dot cc slash an podcast baby. There you can listen

803
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.079
<v Speaker 2>to all of the latest shows from the Atheists Experienced,

804
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 2>talk Ethan, Truth Wanted, the nonprofits, and anything else we

805
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.760
<v Speaker 2>got on that one channel. So listen to that if

806
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:45.719
<v Speaker 2>you just like listening to us and not looking at

807
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.920
<v Speaker 2>our faces. But of course, the ACA also wants to

808
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 2>know what is going on once unit of what's going

809
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 2>on in our community, and for that we've got an

810
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.519
<v Speaker 2>updated website for that. You can go to an Atheist

811
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.559
<v Speaker 2>Hyphencommunity dot org where you can learn about the organization itself.

812
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:02.599
<v Speaker 2>It's Paul, and how you can get involved in maybe

813
00:40:02.679 --> 00:40:05.679
<v Speaker 2>donating your baby pictures to be shown. Just kidding. We'll

814
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:08.199
<v Speaker 2>probably do that probably more like you know, call screening

815
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:11.199
<v Speaker 2>and video editing, all kinds of stuff that needs help

816
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:13.880
<v Speaker 2>around here, and we appreciate all the help that we

817
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:17.000
<v Speaker 2>can get. So thank you guys for considering. I think

818
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:21.599
<v Speaker 2>that's all the announcements I got. I any personal announcements, guys,

819
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.840
<v Speaker 2>it's true. Any other stuff you want to announce before

820
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 2>we move on another caller? Anything?

821
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.320
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm trying to think of anything really exciting.

822
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay, jump at the calls.

823
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.360
<v Speaker 2>All right, Okay, never mind. That was a bad idea

824
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:36.480
<v Speaker 2>and I acknowledge it. I'm just gonna move on.

825
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 1>It could have been great.

826
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.840
<v Speaker 2>It could have been great. It was not great, but

827
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.480
<v Speaker 2>we will move on. We have Jackie who wants to

828
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:48.079
<v Speaker 2>talk to us from the great state of Mississippi. Jackie,

829
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:51.320
<v Speaker 2>you are live on Talk Heythan. What's going on much?

830
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:52.800
<v Speaker 4>How about for you guys.

831
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:56.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm just just just hosting Talk Keithen live live callin

832
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.239
<v Speaker 2>show that happens every Sunday.

833
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:03.159
<v Speaker 10>I had a pretty good Thanksgiving I didn't you know. No,

834
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:07.599
<v Speaker 10>Unfortunately I only had like there were well, I had one.

835
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.599
<v Speaker 5>Slus a pie but it wasn't the best.

836
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:12.519
<v Speaker 10>But yeah, so anyway, I just called them to discuss

837
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:13.559
<v Speaker 10>was that?

838
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh I just said, I just went off because like,

839
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry that your pie wasn't good. But yeah, Jackie.

840
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I would say you deserve more pie, but then you're

841
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 2>about to give us your your take, and maybe after

842
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:24.639
<v Speaker 2>your take, I'm not going to think that you do

843
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:27.159
<v Speaker 2>deserve more pie. So we'll we'll, we'll find out, Jakie,

844
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:28.639
<v Speaker 2>what'd you want to call us about today?

845
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 10>So I just wanted to call in to talk about

846
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:34.800
<v Speaker 10>de Kart's trademark argument for God's system. So so I

847
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 10>have to go over for the premises for you guys

848
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:37.639
<v Speaker 10>or are you eiser of you guys?

849
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Are? Oh?

850
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes? I mean even if we all knew, it's great

851
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.280
<v Speaker 2>for the audience to know as well, you know what

852
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.159
<v Speaker 2>premises you're working off of. Plus you may have a

853
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.800
<v Speaker 2>different understanding than what we d understand of it. So yeah,

854
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:49.679
<v Speaker 2>go ahead, give it, give it out to us, lay

855
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:50.159
<v Speaker 2>it all out.

856
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:53.480
<v Speaker 10>Okay, So Premise one, Decart argues, and I don't think

857
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:56.159
<v Speaker 10>this will be comfortable with anybody here, that there's an

858
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:59.280
<v Speaker 10>idea of God as a perfect being or God is

859
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 10>an infinite being. I think we can all accept that

860
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:02.960
<v Speaker 10>as a legitimate promise.

861
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.400
<v Speaker 3>That's no, But I can't go I can't. I have

862
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:10.719
<v Speaker 3>to stop right there, because you said God is perfect

863
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 3>or God is infinite, and those two things are not

864
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.760
<v Speaker 3>the same thing. So which one is it? And which

865
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:18.559
<v Speaker 3>one are you going with?

866
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:21.679
<v Speaker 10>Well, we can just say God is well, we can

867
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:23.960
<v Speaker 10>take God is instance for this purpose. Or God is

868
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:25.119
<v Speaker 10>the most powerful being.

869
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so God is perfect or God is infinite, or

870
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.800
<v Speaker 3>God is the most powerful. So I just have an

871
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.800
<v Speaker 3>issue because what I don't want to happen later is

872
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:39.840
<v Speaker 3>that you start intertwining and using these, uh, these three

873
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.159
<v Speaker 3>definitions interchangeably, right. I don't want you to be using

874
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.800
<v Speaker 3>perfect and infinite and all powerful later in the conversation.

875
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.760
<v Speaker 2>For I will, i'll, I will chime injo for Descartes

876
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.760
<v Speaker 2>argument that kind of that's kind of the argument a

877
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.719
<v Speaker 2>little bit. There is this kind of thing here. I

878
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:59.280
<v Speaker 2>think traditionally it's it's said that God is a supremely

879
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:01.079
<v Speaker 2>perfect be I think is the.

880
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

881
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:06.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to cross these out and I'm putting supremely perfect.

882
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, because existence is part of the thing. We'll

883
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:13.000
<v Speaker 2>get to that anyway. Premise to we'll move on, Jackie

884
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:13.519
<v Speaker 2>premise to.

885
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:17.519
<v Speaker 10>The premise to is essentially that things that are caused

886
00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:20.800
<v Speaker 10>like a lesser thing can't cause a greater thing, or

887
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:23.039
<v Speaker 10>something which is less perfect can't conse some which is

888
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 10>more perfect.

889
00:43:23.639 --> 00:43:27.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's not my understanding of Dascards argument, but that's fine,

890
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 2>we can work with that.

891
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:28.440
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

892
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.320
<v Speaker 10>Well, here here's as perhaps a better way to phrase it,

893
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.519
<v Speaker 10>so to minus in Descartes, the second premise of Dascards

894
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:39.559
<v Speaker 10>argument is that you have a god as conceived as

895
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:42.880
<v Speaker 10>a more as an infinite all perfect being or supremely

896
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.280
<v Speaker 10>perfect beings. Is the exact phrasing can't be caused by

897
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:49.280
<v Speaker 10>a finite substance called second prim.

898
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:54.920
<v Speaker 2>So so so Descardes argument is the ontological argument, right

899
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and so not. I'm not trying to hijiackt the conversation,

900
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:00.280
<v Speaker 2>but just like maybe maybe just to speed things along here, right,

901
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.639
<v Speaker 2>this is descardess whole idea is this. His idea is like, Okay,

902
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:07.840
<v Speaker 2>we have a supremely perfect being, and a supremely perfect

903
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.880
<v Speaker 2>being has to exist because like that's what it means

904
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.559
<v Speaker 2>to be perfect. A supreme perfect being has to exist

905
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.360
<v Speaker 2>in a perfect in reality, because that's how we can

906
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>conceive of a perfect being. And therefore God exists because

907
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:24.639
<v Speaker 2>he's a supremely perfect being. Now like for an atheist,

908
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:27.480
<v Speaker 2>the problem becomes kind of self evident because we're just

909
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:30.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of defining things into existence, right, We're kind of

910
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.519
<v Speaker 2>giving these qualities, these attributes that may or may not

911
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.280
<v Speaker 2>be real and aren't really based on anything observable. I've

912
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.920
<v Speaker 2>never observed a perfect thing. I don't know what a

913
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.960
<v Speaker 2>perfect thing is. I don't know what it can or

914
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.880
<v Speaker 2>can't do. And so this is why kind of this

915
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.239
<v Speaker 2>this argument kind of does it work in Descartes world. Descartes,

916
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously brilliant mathematician, right, Like, he has this

917
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 2>whole idea of math being outside of ourselves and stuff,

918
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and so I think in his world God being part

919
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of like kind of mathematics in a way kind of

920
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 2>makes sense. We have these sort of abstract ideas that

921
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:06.840
<v Speaker 2>seem to conform to reality, right, and so God must

922
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>be kind of like one of these ideas, right. He

923
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:11.760
<v Speaker 2>has to be existent because we see math in our

924
00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 2>everyday life. Of course, philosophers have talked about the existence

925
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.519
<v Speaker 2>of math and the implications of what it says about reality. Right,

926
00:45:19.159 --> 00:45:21.119
<v Speaker 2>But for most of us we don't find that convincing

927
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.000
<v Speaker 2>because again we're just kind of defining stuff without like

928
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:26.559
<v Speaker 2>really knowing why. Again, I don't know what a perfect

929
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:28.800
<v Speaker 2>being is. I don't know what it entails. I don't

930
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.400
<v Speaker 2>know why I think it should exist in reality versus

931
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:33.079
<v Speaker 2>non existent reality. Does that make sense?

932
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:39.880
<v Speaker 10>No, you didn't accurately represent they cost argument correction, because

933
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:43.400
<v Speaker 10>the reason is because descant argument is that the cause

934
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.079
<v Speaker 10>of an effect is as real as a cause. So

935
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:49.440
<v Speaker 10>the cause of the effect of a supremely perfect being

936
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.280
<v Speaker 10>has to be as real as So we have this

937
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.960
<v Speaker 10>idea of the supremely perfect being, which is a cause

938
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:58.679
<v Speaker 10>the cause, No, the effect, sorry, the effect is the idea.

939
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.119
<v Speaker 10>The cause has to be super the perfect being. The

940
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:04.039
<v Speaker 10>idea of the supremely perfect being can only be caused

941
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.360
<v Speaker 10>by a supremely perfect being. Therefore supremely perfect being has

942
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:11.400
<v Speaker 10>to exist. So like it's not so well, we have

943
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.440
<v Speaker 10>this idea of a perfect being. And you know Manipap's world,

944
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:16.639
<v Speaker 10>I think you're concerning with anthems of version of the

945
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:19.559
<v Speaker 10>anthological organ the commerson of the anthological argument is just

946
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:21.760
<v Speaker 10>the idea of the supremely perfect being has to be

947
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:23.440
<v Speaker 10>caused by a supremely perfect being.

948
00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.239
<v Speaker 4>It's the effect with the cause.

949
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Just as an aside. That's not what I've been finding.

950
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:31.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure that that Dan's representation was accurate, at

951
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:34.760
<v Speaker 1>least to what I've been finding anywhere just now. But

952
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:39.880
<v Speaker 1>this idea that only an idea of a perfect God

953
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:42.519
<v Speaker 1>could come from the existence of a perfect God, is

954
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:44.079
<v Speaker 1>that in summary? Kind of what?

955
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:44.280
<v Speaker 6>Right?

956
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:46.480
<v Speaker 2>And here's the confusion. I think we're talking about Daycard's

957
00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:51.400
<v Speaker 2>ontological argument and Daycard's cosmological argument. Right, you're talking about

958
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.039
<v Speaker 2>the cosmological one is for causes. You're talking about his

959
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.000
<v Speaker 2>cause argument, because that's different.

960
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.599
<v Speaker 10>I'm talking about history. I think it's called the trademark perkument.

961
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:03.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm not from I it could be called the trademark argument.

962
00:47:03.079 --> 00:47:05.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm not formally trained in philosophy. I don't know if

963
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.679
<v Speaker 2>that's that's what it's caused, but that that's a I'm

964
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm trying to make sure I'm not missed for

965
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:13.039
<v Speaker 2>American here, But yes, it may be talking about his

966
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.280
<v Speaker 2>cosmological argument, which is the idea that everything has a cause,

967
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and therefore this idea of God has a cause, right,

968
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:23.760
<v Speaker 2>and so if God is infinite in everything else, then

969
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:26.599
<v Speaker 2>he has to be contained in sort of that idea.

970
00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:28.880
<v Speaker 2>And therefore, Yeah, so that's that's a little bit of

971
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:29.440
<v Speaker 2>a different thing.

972
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:33.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a question, man, man, I just asked you, like Jackie,

973
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:36.199
<v Speaker 3>why are you bringing this up if you don't even

974
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:38.159
<v Speaker 3>really know what the argument is?

975
00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:40.320
<v Speaker 2>No, I know, I don't think that's right because because

976
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.360
<v Speaker 2>we might be misspeaking here, I don't know if because

977
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 2>we I might I might be the one that's misunderstanding Jackie.

978
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.519
<v Speaker 2>I want to give Jackie the but no, but I'm not.

979
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Saying that that your that your idea is conflicting with his.

980
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:53.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm saying that the Jackie is saying, well, I think

981
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.440
<v Speaker 3>it's this, and I think it's that, and and honestly,

982
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:00.079
<v Speaker 3>I'm getting lost in kind of why it's important. Why

983
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:03.480
<v Speaker 3>does a Jackie just tell us what Jackie thinks? Because I'm,

984
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, Descartes not here to argue with us.

985
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah, So maybe we rephrase

986
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:11.960
<v Speaker 2>it as whatever Jackie thinks is true, right, because the

987
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.639
<v Speaker 2>argument should be true regardless of whatever daycard defines it

988
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:18.000
<v Speaker 2>as right. That's fair. Yeah, maybe let's start over here.

989
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:20.239
<v Speaker 2>Let's let's try to do one, two and three again.

990
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 2>And instead of me interrupting you and asking you if

991
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:24.320
<v Speaker 2>I think it's right or not for each premise, why

992
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:26.239
<v Speaker 2>don't you go through those premises again. Let's let's try

993
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 2>it again. How does that sound, Jackie, We're.

994
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.360
<v Speaker 10>Wasting a lot of time. I told you this is

995
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:33.159
<v Speaker 10>a trademark argument. You can say the version of homological argument.

996
00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:35.719
<v Speaker 10>I did not mean the anthological argument. And I've already

997
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:37.639
<v Speaker 10>gone through the premise. A there's an idea of a

998
00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:40.800
<v Speaker 10>perfect being be the effect has to be as real

999
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:42.800
<v Speaker 10>as a cause to the cause has to be as

1000
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:44.480
<v Speaker 10>real as a fact. So the cause of the idea

1001
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.679
<v Speaker 10>of the supreme perfect being must be a supremely perfect being. See,

1002
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:49.559
<v Speaker 10>we have this idea of the supreme and perfect being

1003
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:53.079
<v Speaker 10>in some people's minds. Therefore that it has to actually have.

1004
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:55.119
<v Speaker 4>A cause, and that cause is God.

1005
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:58.880
<v Speaker 1>So okay, So if this is true, then it would

1006
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.440
<v Speaker 1>be It's just like, let's just take that idea of

1007
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.239
<v Speaker 1>there wouldn't be an idea of a supremely perfect being

1008
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:08.199
<v Speaker 1>without a supremely perfect being. If we just take that,

1009
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:13.079
<v Speaker 1>then if having any explanation for this idea that is

1010
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.760
<v Speaker 1>not a supremely perfect being, that would dismantle their argument correct.

1011
00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:20.000
<v Speaker 10>Well, would do you disagree with the promise that.

1012
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.719
<v Speaker 1>There must be that every cause must be greater than

1013
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:23.280
<v Speaker 1>its effects?

1014
00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:23.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

1015
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:24.920
<v Speaker 10>Do you disagree with that?

1016
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:25.239
<v Speaker 9>Well?

1017
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Of course, of course I disagree with that. Have you

1018
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.639
<v Speaker 1>ever played dominoes like there's you know, you can end

1019
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:33.280
<v Speaker 1>up with a much wider ranging effect. And I think

1020
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 1>if we're looking for a reason why we have this

1021
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:41.360
<v Speaker 1>idea of a supremely perfect being, there are lots of

1022
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:45.079
<v Speaker 1>explanations for that that do not require a supremely perfect being.

1023
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:49.639
<v Speaker 1>And I absolutely don't agree that the cause that the

1024
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:52.159
<v Speaker 1>cause must be greater than the effect. I think that

1025
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that sounds sort of like nonsense to me. That sounds

1026
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.239
<v Speaker 1>like something that sounds like true when you assert it,

1027
00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:59.639
<v Speaker 1>and it fills offical argument. But I can think of,

1028
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's other phrases that contradict it. If we're

1029
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.280
<v Speaker 1>just going to argue through sayings like the wings of

1030
00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:07.199
<v Speaker 1>a butterfly in China cause hurricanes and wherever the end

1031
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:10.719
<v Speaker 1>of that phrase goes. So I don't agree with the premise,

1032
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:13.519
<v Speaker 1>but I also feel like if we're trying to get

1033
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:16.639
<v Speaker 1>to the conclusion that God is real, then just saying, hey,

1034
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:19.480
<v Speaker 1>we believe in a perfect God because it's nice for

1035
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:22.079
<v Speaker 1>us to imagine that there is control, that there's perfection,

1036
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:25.199
<v Speaker 1>that we're a social species and we're able to take

1037
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.719
<v Speaker 1>perspective by being a social species. That is a survival

1038
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.960
<v Speaker 1>advantage which requires imagination, which leads us to imagine things

1039
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:34.840
<v Speaker 1>that may or may not even exist. So I guess

1040
00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:37.400
<v Speaker 1>I have a problem with pretty much every part of this,

1041
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.440
<v Speaker 1>and I don't find it particularly compelling.

1042
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:42.760
<v Speaker 10>Okay, so if you just disagree with the premise that

1043
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:46.920
<v Speaker 10>to cause opacity as great or greater in the effects,

1044
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.360
<v Speaker 10>and I suppose that's just something which would disqualify it

1045
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:54.760
<v Speaker 10>from the beginning because much. Yeah, So, if that's the case,

1046
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:57.920
<v Speaker 10>I guess that is like a a subum metaphysical question

1047
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.440
<v Speaker 10>which I don't know if it's pulsifiable definitely.

1048
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:02.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, I don't know.

1049
00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:05.039
<v Speaker 3>So I'm I'm a little lost on why we have

1050
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:08.239
<v Speaker 3>to have like, we can't have this idea of a

1051
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:11.039
<v Speaker 3>perfect being without the perfect being first existing. I don't

1052
00:51:11.079 --> 00:51:13.960
<v Speaker 3>know how that how do we know that that is true?

1053
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Descartes the thing was like like it had the idea

1054
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:21.360
<v Speaker 2>has to originate outside of yourself, you know, because we're

1055
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.440
<v Speaker 2>not perfect beings. I guess I don't know. I never

1056
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.920
<v Speaker 2>really understand it either, But that's that's kind of thinking.

1057
00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's Jackie snaking on the subject though.

1058
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:31.800
<v Speaker 10>I mean, I think it's a fine argument. But if

1059
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:35.239
<v Speaker 10>you would just disagree with the premise that like things

1060
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.000
<v Speaker 10>which are less great than something can't cause a greater

1061
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:41.400
<v Speaker 10>thing to exist, perhaps I'm not a physical question which

1062
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:43.559
<v Speaker 10>I would have to look more into the arguments of guns.

1063
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:46.199
<v Speaker 3>For me, the definition of great is subjective, and I

1064
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:48.079
<v Speaker 3>would have to ask how are you how are you

1065
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:50.840
<v Speaker 3>defining great? And and then we have to go from there.

1066
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:55.079
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I would again, I would also disagree great necessarily subjective.

1067
00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:57.239
<v Speaker 10>I think we can probably say some things are better

1068
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:57.559
<v Speaker 10>than other.

1069
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:03.039
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, but that's a topic for a different time, Jackie.

1070
00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:06.360
<v Speaker 2>I you know, that's that's something that definitely falls within

1071
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:08.480
<v Speaker 2>the purview of this show. And if you want to

1072
00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:10.800
<v Speaker 2>talk to us about it, absolutely we'd love to do that.

1073
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:13.360
<v Speaker 2>But I do think that we have some other callers

1074
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:14.679
<v Speaker 2>that want to talk to us. So is there any

1075
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:16.320
<v Speaker 2>other comments you want to make before we let you go.

1076
00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:19.000
<v Speaker 10>No, I suppose I would just have to look more

1077
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:22.320
<v Speaker 10>into the arguments about the problems with claiming you know,

1078
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.679
<v Speaker 10>effect and cause and greatness in relation to that.

1079
00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:29.400
<v Speaker 3>But I really want to hear what you like, dude,

1080
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:32.920
<v Speaker 3>love your love your calls, and I really liked today's call.

1081
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:35.960
<v Speaker 3>But specifically I want to hear what you have to say,

1082
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.760
<v Speaker 3>because you're always coming on and talking about some philosopher

1083
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:43.360
<v Speaker 3>and you're clearly doing the work to understand these concepts,

1084
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:47.239
<v Speaker 3>uh and and form your own opinions. I really want

1085
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:49.559
<v Speaker 3>to get to know what Jackie uh, you know, what

1086
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.000
<v Speaker 3>Jackie's perspective is. So maybe next time.

1087
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, good toning guys, Thank you Jackie. Yeah, I appreciate

1088
00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you giving given props to Jackie because I don't I agree.

1089
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to waste time with us being confused

1090
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.159
<v Speaker 2>on who we're citing what. You make a great point.

1091
00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:06.159
<v Speaker 2>If the arguments sound, we should just be able to

1092
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:08.599
<v Speaker 2>present the argument as it is. We don't need to

1093
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 2>cite people. For it's important to cite people if we're

1094
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.599
<v Speaker 2>talking about people's specific versions of arguments. But if this

1095
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:17.360
<v Speaker 2>is part of your argument for what you might find

1096
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:19.320
<v Speaker 2>convincing for yourself, then you should be able to put

1097
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:20.679
<v Speaker 2>in your own words, right, So.

1098
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I also it's interesting to me when

1099
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:28.440
<v Speaker 1>folks are looking for truth entirely through argument, like if

1100
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:31.920
<v Speaker 1>you can just argue well enough, you can arrive at reality.

1101
00:53:32.679 --> 00:53:38.320
<v Speaker 1>When I think that actually addressing reality working within the

1102
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:41.519
<v Speaker 1>concepts of science, the things that we know now that

1103
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:45.679
<v Speaker 1>matters too. Expertise in areas that are not philosophy also

1104
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:49.199
<v Speaker 1>matter and are worth exploration, And so I think that

1105
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.519
<v Speaker 1>it can be really tempting to just go back to

1106
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:55.920
<v Speaker 1>who we think of as these special and renowned philosophers.

1107
00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:58.719
<v Speaker 1>But that's not the only way to know things, and

1108
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:01.199
<v Speaker 1>it might not even be the best way to know things,

1109
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.000
<v Speaker 1>so or to come to know things or study reality.

1110
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, and again like just trying to give context

1111
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.159
<v Speaker 2>for like why Descartes thinks the way he does is

1112
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:13.639
<v Speaker 2>because if you understand math, you gain new understandings in

1113
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:17.239
<v Speaker 2>math through defining axioms, right, Like it doesn't come from

1114
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:21.079
<v Speaker 2>necessarily the observable world. It does come through finding axioms

1115
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.519
<v Speaker 2>and working within those axioms. And I think that was

1116
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Descartes's kind of idea with God. It was like if

1117
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:28.119
<v Speaker 2>we can figure out some of these axioms. Same thing

1118
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:30.159
<v Speaker 2>with how we know thisself. I think therefore, I am

1119
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:33.639
<v Speaker 2>he's trying to find like the bare minimum thing to

1120
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.239
<v Speaker 2>work with, so we can figure out other things based

1121
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:38.360
<v Speaker 2>on that, and so like in that context, it makes

1122
00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:41.400
<v Speaker 2>sense if you look at it from a modern day perspective,

1123
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:45.760
<v Speaker 2>where we rely so much on the observable sciences, right come,

1124
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:48.960
<v Speaker 2>we don't go to our understanding through math most of

1125
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the time. For most things, we figured it out because

1126
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.760
<v Speaker 2>somebody did a study somewhere on something and we learned

1127
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:55.840
<v Speaker 2>something about it. It seems kind of strange to talk

1128
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:58.199
<v Speaker 2>about God in that way. We would want to say, Okay, well,

1129
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:00.719
<v Speaker 2>what are the observable things about God? But I don't

1130
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.239
<v Speaker 2>think that's what like Dycartes trying to do there. Whether

1131
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.400
<v Speaker 2>you find that convincing your eyes up to you personally,

1132
00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't think you can just define perfectness

1133
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:10.360
<v Speaker 2>and greaterness, you know, all that stuff. That's pretty subjective,

1134
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.719
<v Speaker 2>right but we Yeah, I don't know, I'm going on

1135
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:13.519
<v Speaker 2>a rant here. Yeah.

1136
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, I also think they handwaving away hundreds of years

1137
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:19.199
<v Speaker 1>of scientific progress, like not saying that's a year. Yeah,

1138
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.760
<v Speaker 1>But I think that sometimes jumping back to philosophers who

1139
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.559
<v Speaker 1>were absolutely brilliant, but we're in a really different context.

1140
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:28.119
<v Speaker 1>We have no idea if they would say the same

1141
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:28.719
<v Speaker 1>things today.

1142
00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:31.840
<v Speaker 2>That's true. I wonder if Jay Kartes would still hold that.

1143
00:55:31.960 --> 00:55:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he'd be like, nah, actually that was my early stuff,

1144
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, the second album. The second album would have

1145
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:41.159
<v Speaker 2>hit better.

1146
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Totally different sound, Yeah.

1147
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Totally different sound. We were working on a new thing anyway.

1148
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't know. All right, all right,

1149
00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.760
<v Speaker 2>good stuff, good stuff all around. Let's talk to some

1150
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:56.480
<v Speaker 2>more people. Okay, this is an interesting call that I

1151
00:55:56.519 --> 00:55:59.599
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Uh well, we got two really good ones. Oh,

1152
00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 2>we'll get everybody. I don't know what am I saying.

1153
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Let's just let's just dive right there. We got Eduardo

1154
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Edwardo coming in from Brazil. Shout out to Brazil, Eduardo,

1155
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:10.559
<v Speaker 2>what's up as you?

1156
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:15.000
<v Speaker 4>Actually? But that's cool, that's pretty cool. Uh well, I

1157
00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:19.599
<v Speaker 4>had actually I called because I'm sort of confused about

1158
00:56:19.880 --> 00:56:25.159
<v Speaker 4>uh your not yours, because it's there's no ass moral

1159
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.199
<v Speaker 4>to be I mean, how you guys deal with that?

1160
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:32.880
<v Speaker 4>Because I was watching uh your your your broadcasting and

1161
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:37.679
<v Speaker 4>I found something pretty interesting. One of you are almost

1162
00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:43.679
<v Speaker 4>closed to early early Christians and Judaism. Early christian is

1163
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:49.679
<v Speaker 4>not not Christons Christianity as we understood today, but as

1164
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:54.559
<v Speaker 4>we were supposed to have understood earlier, which is debatable.

1165
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:59.920
<v Speaker 4>But what we have and others are not are almost tied,

1166
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:04.880
<v Speaker 4>like almost you know, what's what's what's allowed, was allowed,

1167
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.599
<v Speaker 4>what's forbidden forbidden? And I don't know if you guys

1168
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:13.719
<v Speaker 4>have a midway point or pnfused. I'm turning from a

1169
00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:14.960
<v Speaker 4>place of bonancy here.

1170
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I want to learn.

1171
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:21.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, also I also if you want to discuss that later,

1172
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.440
<v Speaker 4>I don't know that the to Mike's question, I mean

1173
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:27.599
<v Speaker 4>the sort of most given.

1174
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:29.199
<v Speaker 2>All right, well let's start with the first one. And

1175
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a good round robin here. I'll

1176
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.320
<v Speaker 2>start here, and I want to hear Jimmy and Sophia's

1177
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:37.519
<v Speaker 2>take after. But like, like, so, Christians didn't invent morality, right,

1178
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:40.199
<v Speaker 2>Jewish people didn't invent morality. I think they they lived

1179
00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:42.199
<v Speaker 2>in groups of people and they kind of figured out

1180
00:57:42.199 --> 00:57:43.800
<v Speaker 2>some stuff that was right or wrong and what was

1181
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.119
<v Speaker 2>important to those people with that group of time. So

1182
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:49.159
<v Speaker 2>we may share similarities to other groups of people because

1183
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.000
<v Speaker 2>we're also people and we have to deal with the

1184
00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:54.800
<v Speaker 2>same sort of you know, problems that any group of

1185
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.519
<v Speaker 2>people does. The problem is, do we have a systemic,

1186
00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:02.039
<v Speaker 2>systematic form of morality that to all atheists in all situations. No,

1187
00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:06.599
<v Speaker 2>all atheists come from different worlds. They come from different contexts, cultures,

1188
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:08.719
<v Speaker 2>and backgrounds that are going to affect the way that

1189
00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:11.000
<v Speaker 2>they think about their own sense of morality, so that

1190
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:14.119
<v Speaker 2>there really isn't a universal morality that we can come

1191
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:17.239
<v Speaker 2>to in that regard. We may have some similarities, and

1192
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:21.880
<v Speaker 2>we may have some broadly even agreeable, systematic things, but like,

1193
00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:23.920
<v Speaker 2>it's never going to be perfect. And the truth is

1194
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:26.440
<v Speaker 2>it was never perfect for the Christians or the Jewish

1195
00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:29.800
<v Speaker 2>people either. They also have changed over time just as

1196
00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:32.360
<v Speaker 2>much as we have, if not more so. So it's

1197
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:34.440
<v Speaker 2>easy to be confused because if you grow up in

1198
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:36.400
<v Speaker 2>a religion that tells you this is the way, the

1199
00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:38.719
<v Speaker 2>truth and the light and nothing else makes sense, you

1200
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:40.719
<v Speaker 2>might be confused why these other things kind of make

1201
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:42.440
<v Speaker 2>sense and then kind of don't. It's because there's never

1202
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:46.599
<v Speaker 2>been one true moral system that has been solved or

1203
00:58:46.840 --> 00:58:49.199
<v Speaker 2>has been worked out for all situations, and anybody that

1204
00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:53.440
<v Speaker 2>tells you otherwise is a liar in my opinion. So anyway,

1205
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:56.199
<v Speaker 2>that's my take. Well, Sophia, how about you.

1206
00:58:56.840 --> 00:59:00.239
<v Speaker 1>So I think that there is no one answered or

1207
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:03.679
<v Speaker 1>to where atheist morality would come from, because there is

1208
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:07.239
<v Speaker 1>not some atheist group that just sits down and decides

1209
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and publishes here's our moral beliefs. I think of that. Yes,

1210
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I am, I guess not part of that gang. So

1211
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:20.800
<v Speaker 1>so I would say that my beliefs about where morals

1212
00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:23.639
<v Speaker 1>come from is simply that we're capable of empathy with

1213
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:27.079
<v Speaker 1>others because that is a positive survival trait for a

1214
00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:32.400
<v Speaker 1>social animal. Socializing helped us survive, so we're able to

1215
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:36.360
<v Speaker 1>develop empathy. They kind of roll in together, progress together.

1216
00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:40.360
<v Speaker 1>As our social groups become more complex, discussions of morality

1217
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:43.440
<v Speaker 1>also become a lot more complex. I think that for

1218
00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:49.000
<v Speaker 1>me personally, I became an atheist partially because I had

1219
00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:52.920
<v Speaker 1>started trying to work on my own moral reasoning and

1220
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:56.519
<v Speaker 1>realize that so often Christianity, as I was, as it

1221
00:59:56.599 --> 00:59:58.360
<v Speaker 1>had been taught to me, as it was as I

1222
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.719
<v Speaker 1>could participate in it around me, violated a lot of

1223
01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:04.639
<v Speaker 1>my personal moral tenants. That came more from a standpoint

1224
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:10.440
<v Speaker 1>of just acknowledging human suffering and wanting to diminish human suffering,

1225
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:14.079
<v Speaker 1>particularly for me personally that of children. I ended up

1226
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:19.480
<v Speaker 1>being more and more expected to make compromises or to

1227
01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:24.639
<v Speaker 1>argue that somehow the Church or the Bible or God

1228
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:28.960
<v Speaker 1>and defense of these institutions was more important than what

1229
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:31.519
<v Speaker 1>I actually had come to believe was moral and true

1230
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:35.159
<v Speaker 1>without God, which comes entirely from empathy. So I would

1231
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:39.760
<v Speaker 1>say that that's for me personally more where it comes from.

1232
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:43.920
<v Speaker 1>But I also think that there's the constant working out

1233
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:47.239
<v Speaker 1>of morality is an advantage of atheism because you're constantly

1234
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:50.840
<v Speaker 1>considering what am I doing? What is right? And you

1235
01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:53.840
<v Speaker 1>should be anyway, at least I am seeking out opinions

1236
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:57.719
<v Speaker 1>across a wide variety of perspectives to help inform.

1237
01:00:57.559 --> 01:00:59.440
<v Speaker 2>That Yeah, Jimmy, your turn.

1238
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.199
<v Speaker 3>Yes. So I don't really have much to add to

1239
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:05.280
<v Speaker 3>those things. I certainly agree with what Sophia and Dan

1240
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:06.840
<v Speaker 3>had to say. So I just want to kind of

1241
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:10.840
<v Speaker 3>maybe spark a little bit of interest for Eduardo here.

1242
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:16.320
<v Speaker 3>But you know, the idea that morality is somehow unique

1243
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:20.119
<v Speaker 3>to religion, or to Christianity in my case, because I

1244
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:21.559
<v Speaker 3>was a Christian. So I'm just going to talk about

1245
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Christianity is just a product of people trying to create

1246
01:01:26.679 --> 01:01:31.519
<v Speaker 3>this kind of ancient system, trying to order society based

1247
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:35.440
<v Speaker 3>on rules and laws and trying to find a way

1248
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.880
<v Speaker 3>to basically govern and to create order. Right, But if

1249
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:44.719
<v Speaker 3>you go down any street in America or elsewhere, you'll

1250
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:50.079
<v Speaker 3>probably pass one to five different churches from different denominations,

1251
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:55.639
<v Speaker 3>and they all have different viewpoints on how things should

1252
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:59.639
<v Speaker 3>be done. And morality is this ongoing discussion, this ongoing

1253
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:04.000
<v Speaker 3>argument about what should and what should not be. And theists,

1254
01:02:04.159 --> 01:02:07.440
<v Speaker 3>while they say that morality is kind of provided by God,

1255
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:11.239
<v Speaker 3>they can't even agree on what should or should not be,

1256
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:14.400
<v Speaker 3>which is why there are forty five thousand different sects

1257
01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:17.960
<v Speaker 3>of Christianity. So to say that, well, I'm not sure

1258
01:02:18.039 --> 01:02:22.199
<v Speaker 3>where atheists get their morality from, I could very easily

1259
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:25.519
<v Speaker 3>turn and say the very same thing about Christianity. I

1260
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:29.039
<v Speaker 3>am not sure where theists think they get their morality from.

1261
01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:32.840
<v Speaker 3>And I can actually point to an archaeological record of

1262
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:36.199
<v Speaker 3>different religions that have popped up all over the Earth,

1263
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:41.920
<v Speaker 3>that have used religion to create power structures ten thousand

1264
01:02:41.960 --> 01:02:45.199
<v Speaker 3>years ago or even now. And so something that I

1265
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.800
<v Speaker 3>want you to think about there is why religion and

1266
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.639
<v Speaker 3>morality are linked. That's what I have.

1267
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Boom, all right, that's three people pontificating to you. Eduardo,

1268
01:02:56.360 --> 01:02:57.239
<v Speaker 2>what do you think about that?

1269
01:02:57.480 --> 01:02:57.679
<v Speaker 3>Right?

1270
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:04.280
<v Speaker 4>No, actually I agree with you the last one, or

1271
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:08.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, I actually agree. Uh. What makes it sort

1272
01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:13.920
<v Speaker 4>of confused is, uh, I don't think that moral cunsule religion,

1273
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:19.559
<v Speaker 4>but I think that uh, religion is and maybe it's

1274
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:21.960
<v Speaker 4>starting out to be but starting not to be. But

1275
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:26.320
<v Speaker 4>it's used to be a necessary way to since we

1276
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:28.840
<v Speaker 4>didn't have much knowledge about the world, not that we

1277
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:31.679
<v Speaker 4>have that watch now, but a way to kind of

1278
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:36.280
<v Speaker 4>gather it is because it's it's a it's a religion

1279
01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:40.679
<v Speaker 4>or reasonally the words uh, you know, get it together.

1280
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:45.559
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, they create our instructures. And I was never

1281
01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:48.760
<v Speaker 4>really religious. I was a feast, but I was never

1282
01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:53.880
<v Speaker 4>okay with with religion, especially because you know, I had

1283
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:57.559
<v Speaker 4>a grandmother. I have a grandmother in a day that

1284
01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:03.559
<v Speaker 4>our Shoova witnesses, you know well, and I pretty much

1285
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:08.400
<v Speaker 4>looking on the inside there and while there are most

1286
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:13.239
<v Speaker 4>people there, they're honest, but well, you know, I let's

1287
01:04:13.239 --> 01:04:18.000
<v Speaker 4>say I had a close look at that, and I

1288
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:22.119
<v Speaker 4>know that that churches do that, but we used to

1289
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:27.280
<v Speaker 4>have those tales, those uh which folk or that got

1290
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.920
<v Speaker 4>us together, and now I think we're at the end

1291
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:35.280
<v Speaker 4>of our childhood as it is, and I think most,

1292
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:38.719
<v Speaker 4>I think some of you are a feists, are going

1293
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:40.639
<v Speaker 4>to be the ones that are going to lead that

1294
01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:44.719
<v Speaker 4>because you're going to have to think on where we

1295
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.519
<v Speaker 4>find it, because it's almost instinctive look to look at

1296
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:52.320
<v Speaker 4>religions to find that moral guidance. And that's why I'm

1297
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:56.840
<v Speaker 4>interested because I'm not I'm a fast, but I'm I'm

1298
01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:00.679
<v Speaker 4>not fast from a relief that believes that most rituals

1299
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:04.800
<v Speaker 4>are actually things that we used to have like boys

1300
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:09.039
<v Speaker 4>for like a better analogy, and now we need to

1301
01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:11.840
<v Speaker 4>start to space with them because now we know more

1302
01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:13.119
<v Speaker 4>supposed to.

1303
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think it one. You have very

1304
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:19.159
<v Speaker 2>kind things to say about us, but the truth is

1305
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 2>we're all activists for different reasons. I'm interested in talking

1306
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:26.320
<v Speaker 2>about the power structures that religion gives. Right you're in Brazil,

1307
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:30.599
<v Speaker 2>you know this. The Catholic Church is could technically be

1308
01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:33.039
<v Speaker 2>considered one of the largest criminal organizations in the world,

1309
01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:36.440
<v Speaker 2>and yet that doesn't stop somebody's grandma from going and

1310
01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:39.679
<v Speaker 2>donating every single Sunday, because of the comfort, because of

1311
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:41.639
<v Speaker 2>the community, because of all the other things that provide.

1312
01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:44.840
<v Speaker 2>The religion can cause people to do terrible things for

1313
01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:48.920
<v Speaker 2>good reasons, right for terrible things, for benefits that that

1314
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:52.760
<v Speaker 2>that you know that they don't necessarily implicitly mean to do.

1315
01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:54.239
<v Speaker 2>They don't mean to do wrong, they don't mean to

1316
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:56.719
<v Speaker 2>do harm, but do anyway because of the power structure

1317
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:58.840
<v Speaker 2>that exists. That's the reason why I'm an activist. There's

1318
01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:01.280
<v Speaker 2>a million different reasons why peop or activists and why

1319
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:03.480
<v Speaker 2>they think this stuff is important. I don't know about

1320
01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:07.400
<v Speaker 2>us leading the charge on anything. You talk about any

1321
01:06:07.400 --> 01:06:09.800
<v Speaker 2>other opinions we have, and you find out why we're

1322
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:11.960
<v Speaker 2>so infamous for being like a bag of cats. We

1323
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:14.760
<v Speaker 2>don't always get along on a lot of things. The

1324
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:17.280
<v Speaker 2>only united front that we tend to have is that, hey,

1325
01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:19.840
<v Speaker 2>maybe this whole religion thing we should kind of reconsider

1326
01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:22.719
<v Speaker 2>just a little bit. Maybe, So I don't know, I

1327
01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:26.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know, but you know it is worth at least

1328
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:28.639
<v Speaker 2>pondering and at least figuring out, Hey, why am I here,

1329
01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Why am I going to this church? Why am I

1330
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:34.760
<v Speaker 2>supporting this thing that exists? And is it actually harming people,

1331
01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>is it always good? I think the answers to that

1332
01:06:37.719 --> 01:06:40.840
<v Speaker 2>may give you pause, but that's my take. I don't

1333
01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:42.000
<v Speaker 2>know you guys thoughts.

1334
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:46.199
<v Speaker 1>I think that the future would be better whether if

1335
01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:50.119
<v Speaker 1>those in charge, whether theist or not, were consistent about

1336
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:55.440
<v Speaker 1>trying to act as ethically morally as possible. I think

1337
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:58.760
<v Speaker 1>that requires a certain amount of questioning of yourself and

1338
01:06:59.199 --> 01:07:02.960
<v Speaker 1>truly try to make the best decision that one can.

1339
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:06.800
<v Speaker 1>I think that religion can get in the way of that.

1340
01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I think that what we see right now it's a

1341
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:14.159
<v Speaker 1>bunch of theocrats who are really thinking that they are

1342
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:16.920
<v Speaker 1>doing what's right. I would argue that they are not

1343
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.599
<v Speaker 1>reasoning about it particularly hard, and they're more tempted by

1344
01:07:19.639 --> 01:07:22.599
<v Speaker 1>the power. But I think that honest exploration of what

1345
01:07:22.679 --> 01:07:25.280
<v Speaker 1>is considered right and good is a good thing for leaders,

1346
01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:26.960
<v Speaker 1>and I hope that we can do that and can

1347
01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.320
<v Speaker 1>challenge each other to do that. I don't think that

1348
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.039
<v Speaker 1>gets you elected. I don't think that that leads you

1349
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to being a leader, unfortunately. But I think that you know,

1350
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:39.599
<v Speaker 1>we we reason almost as an act of hope, that

1351
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:44.679
<v Speaker 1>it matters that we consider what is the right way

1352
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:45.079
<v Speaker 1>to act.

1353
01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:46.159
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep, yep.

1354
01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:50.480
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, I was having a bit of a delay here.

1355
01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:56.039
<v Speaker 4>Now I gotta tell something about president though, talk about

1356
01:07:56.079 --> 01:08:00.400
<v Speaker 4>the Catholic Church. Yeah, they are corrupt. I actually I

1357
01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:05.599
<v Speaker 4>had the not always say the pleasure, but the opportunity

1358
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:09.719
<v Speaker 4>of looking at religious really close. And you know, but

1359
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:14.960
<v Speaker 4>the thing is most conselics here they are either they

1360
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.039
<v Speaker 4>have more and more religious actually, or there are something

1361
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:23.880
<v Speaker 4>called non practicing conflicts, which is people that are Catholics

1362
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:26.000
<v Speaker 4>but they don't don't do to mess.

1363
01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:31.279
<v Speaker 11>It's there's also a sort of syncretism religious syncretism here.

1364
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:34.560
<v Speaker 11>But yeah, I think we have to think about that

1365
01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:38.239
<v Speaker 11>because I think now we are getting to a point

1366
01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:42.039
<v Speaker 11>in the world that we are getting divided, to a

1367
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:45.680
<v Speaker 11>point that nobody gets stop to anybody else, and they

1368
01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:47.399
<v Speaker 11>have to be very careful about that.

1369
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The syncretism you're describing in Brazils is quite famous, right,

1370
01:08:52.199 --> 01:08:56.199
<v Speaker 2>because of its uniqueness. It has a there's a cultural

1371
01:08:56.479 --> 01:08:59.319
<v Speaker 2>identification that comes to the people of Brazil. Then you

1372
01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:01.439
<v Speaker 2>would not see that you would not see in other

1373
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:05.880
<v Speaker 2>countries that are Catholic because of the Catholic Church's attempts

1374
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:09.680
<v Speaker 2>to sort of capture the people there. Right, it has

1375
01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:12.880
<v Speaker 2>to kind of adapt in order to survive, and people

1376
01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:15.439
<v Speaker 2>kind of come up with their own interpretations in order

1377
01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:18.239
<v Speaker 2>for that to still survive and yet still give lip

1378
01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:21.399
<v Speaker 2>service to the church as a structure and as an institution.

1379
01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:25.319
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting how a religion like that can sort of

1380
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.720
<v Speaker 2>adapt to its environment in order to retain its power there.

1381
01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:31.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's something that I think a lot of people

1382
01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:33.600
<v Speaker 2>still study and think about it workout. The same thing

1383
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:36.680
<v Speaker 2>happened with in America too. By the way, everybody here says,

1384
01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:39.720
<v Speaker 2>you ask ten different Christians what Christianity is, you're gonna

1385
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:42.319
<v Speaker 2>get twelve different answers. I mean, that's just how it is.

1386
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:44.720
<v Speaker 2>That's just how it always is going to be. But

1387
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:46.359
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot to that. Unfortunately, we do have some

1388
01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:49.000
<v Speaker 2>of the callers that I want to take, and I

1389
01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:50.840
<v Speaker 2>will go ahead and let you go now. But a Eduardo,

1390
01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:53.720
<v Speaker 2>I've enjoyed my previous conversation with you. I enjoyed this

1391
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:56.760
<v Speaker 2>one too. I'm glad that you feel comfortable talking to

1392
01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:59.199
<v Speaker 2>us about this journey that you're going through, kind of

1393
01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:01.760
<v Speaker 2>thinking thinking about some stuff. Maybe you're not quiet on

1394
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:04.640
<v Speaker 2>our side yet, maybe we're two I don't know something

1395
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:07.359
<v Speaker 2>for you, but I'm glad that you're spending that time

1396
01:10:07.399 --> 01:10:11.079
<v Speaker 2>with us anyway, because it is very thoughtful, very thoughtful

1397
01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:13.479
<v Speaker 2>that you think that we're you know, worth talking to

1398
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:17.640
<v Speaker 2>about anything. Really, But yeah, great call. Any thoughts on

1399
01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:18.640
<v Speaker 2>that call, Gang.

1400
01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:21.279
<v Speaker 3>I something stood out to me where he said, you know,

1401
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:24.720
<v Speaker 3>it's it's just natural or it seems to be like

1402
01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:28.760
<v Speaker 3>the reflex to look toward morality or look toward religion

1403
01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:31.199
<v Speaker 3>for morality. Yeah. I mean that's part of the process.

1404
01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:35.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's the indoctrination. You're told your entire life,

1405
01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.840
<v Speaker 3>especially from a childhood, that that's where morality comes from.

1406
01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:43.840
<v Speaker 3>And that's how that power structure creates a lifetime client,

1407
01:10:44.199 --> 01:10:47.119
<v Speaker 3>a lifetime minion by getting you while you're young and

1408
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:51.079
<v Speaker 3>infusing you with this idea that morality comes from God

1409
01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:54.840
<v Speaker 3>that is actually not true. And I appreciate him thinking

1410
01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:58.520
<v Speaker 3>that people you know, like us, I would say that

1411
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:01.439
<v Speaker 3>that at least challenged the view of God will will

1412
01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:04.399
<v Speaker 3>help other people, because I hope that I'm helping other

1413
01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:07.880
<v Speaker 3>people by letting them or serving as an example as

1414
01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:11.840
<v Speaker 3>somebody who did challenge the indoctrination and who came out

1415
01:11:12.039 --> 01:11:15.960
<v Speaker 3>on the other end, you know, not more indoctrinated, but

1416
01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:18.479
<v Speaker 3>a little bit free of what I was told was

1417
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:22.279
<v Speaker 3>the truth. So yeah, I think that that's what really stuck.

1418
01:11:22.279 --> 01:11:26.239
<v Speaker 3>That's the shocking thing, you know, the reflex, the default

1419
01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:29.199
<v Speaker 3>is to look toward religion. I hope that default changes.

1420
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I also wonder if that default would be quite

1421
01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:34.800
<v Speaker 1>as strongly ingrained if there wasn't. On the other hand,

1422
01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:37.319
<v Speaker 1>the threat of eternal damnation. You know, I think that

1423
01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:40.279
<v Speaker 1>hell really, I know for me as a little kid

1424
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:44.199
<v Speaker 1>in particular, causes you to, you know, focus in on

1425
01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:46.920
<v Speaker 1>religion as the one thing that will save you from

1426
01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:50.279
<v Speaker 1>being tortured forever, right, which whatever that means to you

1427
01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:53.039
<v Speaker 1>in your five you know, is what it oftentimes will

1428
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:56.119
<v Speaker 1>bank on forever. So yeah, I agree.

1429
01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.359
<v Speaker 2>In general, religion tells you two things, what happens after

1430
01:12:00.399 --> 01:12:02.119
<v Speaker 2>your die and who you're allowed to have sex with.

1431
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:05.239
<v Speaker 2>That seems to be the kind of through line in

1432
01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:08.079
<v Speaker 2>all of them in my observations. But I think we

1433
01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:10.960
<v Speaker 2>have time for at least one more caller, if not more.

1434
01:12:11.159 --> 01:12:13.279
<v Speaker 3>We got to hit the top five patrons.

1435
01:12:13.319 --> 01:12:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Guy, Yeah, you're so right. I'm so behind. I'm not

1436
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:18.399
<v Speaker 2>looking at the chat from the crew who's telling us

1437
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:20.479
<v Speaker 2>that we need to get to the top five patients.

1438
01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Since you're so prepared and ready for that, Jim, would

1439
01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>you like to read the top five patrons?

1440
01:12:24.680 --> 01:12:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh boy, I of course would love to so our

1441
01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:32.560
<v Speaker 3>top five patrons. Oops, all Singularity, that's number one, Number two,

1442
01:12:33.039 --> 01:12:35.920
<v Speaker 3>dingle Berry Jackson. I like what you did there, dingle Berry,

1443
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:41.399
<v Speaker 3>going to number two. Three, k Levi Helvetti, four left

1444
01:12:41.439 --> 01:12:44.279
<v Speaker 3>in the leaves. Five, a name I've never read before,

1445
01:12:44.279 --> 01:12:46.199
<v Speaker 3>but I'm happy to see up on the on the list,

1446
01:12:46.239 --> 01:12:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Brian Zupke and then honorable mention Jonathan Hall. Thank you

1447
01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:53.840
<v Speaker 3>to everybody who donates to us on Patreon, and if

1448
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:55.760
<v Speaker 3>you want to have your name read on the air,

1449
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:59.119
<v Speaker 3>please consider supporting us at tiny dot c c forward

1450
01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:05.359
<v Speaker 3>slash Patrin and folks, don't forget we're taking super chats today.

1451
01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:07.720
<v Speaker 3>We got to get we got to get some more

1452
01:13:07.760 --> 01:13:12.479
<v Speaker 3>super chats in so that we can show very unflattering pictures.

1453
01:13:12.680 --> 01:13:14.520
<v Speaker 3>We've got three of us lovely people.

1454
01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:17.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've got about ten minutes here, and we still

1455
01:13:17.239 --> 01:13:22.800
<v Speaker 2>need five more super chat donations, five five dollars donations.

1456
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>All else it's going back in the vault and you're

1457
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:28.720
<v Speaker 2>not going to see it until Michaeliser decides to do

1458
01:13:28.800 --> 01:13:32.840
<v Speaker 2>another release. You know, still going with the Disney Vault metaphor.

1459
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but we do have all the

1460
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:37.680
<v Speaker 2>callers who wanted to talk to us until then. So

1461
01:13:37.880 --> 01:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>now's the time for you to get your donations before Sophia.

1462
01:13:43.199 --> 01:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to pick the next call? Because you know,

1463
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy kind of got one, and I feel like you

1464
01:13:47.319 --> 01:13:48.039
<v Speaker 2>should get one.

1465
01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:51.479
<v Speaker 1>I really do, Philly. I like surprises. I was even

1466
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:53.159
<v Speaker 1>playing a game the other day and you get to

1467
01:13:53.239 --> 01:13:55.920
<v Speaker 1>choose which side you debated about very silly things.

1468
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:59.239
<v Speaker 2>I choose. I wanted it. Yeah, I actually want a

1469
01:13:59.239 --> 01:14:01.079
<v Speaker 2>surprise for you is that you get to pick the

1470
01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>next call. So go ahead, and you know, take your shot.

1471
01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:06.159
<v Speaker 1>I may or may not actually be signed in right

1472
01:14:06.159 --> 01:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>now to be I that and be like, okay, I'm

1473
01:14:10.520 --> 01:14:11.880
<v Speaker 1>not going to explicitly state.

1474
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:15.039
<v Speaker 2>That, but it's projective. I didn't think that message. She

1475
01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:19.039
<v Speaker 2>was doing such great subtle messaging to me, improvag no,

1476
01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>don't let me pick, and I ignored it. I was

1477
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:26.359
<v Speaker 2>like a steamboat just going Titanic straight into the iceberg.

1478
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:28.079
<v Speaker 2>That's what just happened with.

1479
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.600
<v Speaker 1>My keys, and I want people to hear that. It's

1480
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:31.560
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing. Anyway, Now you all.

1481
01:14:31.399 --> 01:14:36.479
<v Speaker 2>Know, all right, Jimmy, you're signed in. What do you

1482
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:38.159
<v Speaker 2>think you want? You want to pick the next one? Then?

1483
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we're going with Steve in Nebraska.

1484
01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I knew it. I knew we're gonna go Steve. All right?

1485
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:44.479
<v Speaker 2>Is up?

1486
01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:45.520
<v Speaker 6>Hey?

1487
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:48.840
<v Speaker 5>Hey, Jimmy, uh Dan and so get Thanks for taking

1488
01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:54.479
<v Speaker 5>my call. So I was calling about recent studies suggesting

1489
01:14:54.600 --> 01:14:58.800
<v Speaker 5>dark energies weakening over time, meaning that the universe is

1490
01:14:59.199 --> 01:15:04.520
<v Speaker 5>eternally cyclico rather than having been created. Are you familiar

1491
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:04.880
<v Speaker 5>with this?

1492
01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>No, by dark do you mean like dark matters or.

1493
01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:14.840
<v Speaker 5>Is it dark energy? So, according to dark energies meethroscopic

1494
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:19.079
<v Speaker 5>instrument observations of red shifts, which is distant galaxy light

1495
01:15:19.279 --> 01:15:22.239
<v Speaker 5>and quaser light stretched out by the expansion of space.

1496
01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:26.720
<v Speaker 5>Messi precisely measures this expansion rate of space by using

1497
01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:33.600
<v Speaker 5>veryan acoustic oscillations sound rings, which are density fluctuations in

1498
01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:38.359
<v Speaker 5>the early universe were sound waves rippled through primordial plasma

1499
01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:43.760
<v Speaker 5>and printing a visible distribution of the galaxies today, acting

1500
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:47.760
<v Speaker 5>as a standard ruler for measuring the universe's expansion and

1501
01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:51.479
<v Speaker 5>Desi's first year results find dark energy state of equation

1502
01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:55.720
<v Speaker 5>negative one, which is dark energy's pressure for dark energies

1503
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:56.600
<v Speaker 5>energy density.

1504
01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, hold on, hold on, hold on, pressure is consisting, yes.

1505
01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:03.760
<v Speaker 3>Dave, hold on, hold on, listen, man, I'm no, I'm

1506
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:05.960
<v Speaker 3>no brainyact and I know a thing or two about

1507
01:16:06.039 --> 01:16:09.680
<v Speaker 3>radar waves. And I know that measuring wavelengths and and

1508
01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:12.359
<v Speaker 3>and measuring you know, waves in general can give you

1509
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:14.960
<v Speaker 3>an idea of you know, how things move and how

1510
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:18.079
<v Speaker 3>far away they've come, so where they're going or how

1511
01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:20.880
<v Speaker 3>far away they've come from. So on that note right

1512
01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:23.840
<v Speaker 3>in the In an effort to not confuse me, let's

1513
01:16:23.840 --> 01:16:26.119
<v Speaker 3>say that we're able to measure the expansion of the

1514
01:16:26.199 --> 01:16:29.960
<v Speaker 3>universe by looking at changing wavelengths over time. Okay, how

1515
01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:31.880
<v Speaker 3>does that relate to dark energy? Because I do not

1516
01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:33.000
<v Speaker 3>know what dark energy is.

1517
01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:38.920
<v Speaker 5>Dark energy is what is expanding. It's a counteract to gravity.

1518
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:40.840
<v Speaker 5>It's what's in the universe.

1519
01:16:41.319 --> 01:16:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

1520
01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:45.239
<v Speaker 5>When you take the deak Use observation of data, it's

1521
01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:49.319
<v Speaker 5>it's it's in line with the cosmological constant cold dark

1522
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:53.600
<v Speaker 5>entergy matter model. But when you take the data with

1523
01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:59.199
<v Speaker 5>cosmic microwave background survey data and supernova survey data, the

1524
01:16:59.239 --> 01:17:01.640
<v Speaker 5>equation of state of dark energy is get less than

1525
01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:05.399
<v Speaker 5>negative one. Suggesting that dark energy is weakening over time.

1526
01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:08.399
<v Speaker 5>So what's the good means that the universe may be

1527
01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:11.760
<v Speaker 5>cyclical in nature rather than having been created.

1528
01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:15.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so the premise, it seems like dark energy and

1529
01:17:15.960 --> 01:17:18.439
<v Speaker 1>dark matter are sort of two halves of the same coin,

1530
01:17:18.479 --> 01:17:21.439
<v Speaker 1>where dark energy pushes the universe further out. This is

1531
01:17:21.479 --> 01:17:25.960
<v Speaker 1>according to the Harvard and Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. This

1532
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:29.119
<v Speaker 1>is what I'm looking up right now, and that dark

1533
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:31.880
<v Speaker 1>dark matter is a gravitational forest, dark energy is a

1534
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:35.960
<v Speaker 1>repulsive force. Basically, it seems like, I mean, that's an

1535
01:17:35.960 --> 01:17:39.159
<v Speaker 1>interesting thought that like dark matter would be slowing I

1536
01:17:39.199 --> 01:17:41.439
<v Speaker 1>have not or sorry, dark energy I guess would be

1537
01:17:41.439 --> 01:17:43.159
<v Speaker 1>slowing to be honest, when you first called them, like,

1538
01:17:43.159 --> 01:17:45.880
<v Speaker 1>are we talking about witchcraft? So I am so not

1539
01:17:46.239 --> 01:17:48.640
<v Speaker 1>the expert on this, but it seems like, you know,

1540
01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:51.079
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting things to study at the far reaches of

1541
01:17:51.119 --> 01:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the galaxy. It also seems like there's a lot to

1542
01:17:53.800 --> 01:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>be looked at. Like from my understanding, a lot of

1543
01:17:56.720 --> 01:17:59.039
<v Speaker 1>physicists don't even agree on how you should deal with

1544
01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:02.359
<v Speaker 1>dark matter self, and so the opposite of it, I

1545
01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:04.319
<v Speaker 1>imagine there's still quite a bit of ambiguity.

1546
01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:07.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think I think for me, my question is,

1547
01:18:07.920 --> 01:18:09.720
<v Speaker 3>so what you know?

1548
01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:10.159
<v Speaker 2>So?

1549
01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:13.359
<v Speaker 3>And I mean that, I mean that respectfully, Steve, Like, Okay,

1550
01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:16.960
<v Speaker 3>let's say we find out that the universe is cyclical,

1551
01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:19.359
<v Speaker 3>So I mean, what did we just accomplish there? I

1552
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:20.159
<v Speaker 3>don't I don't know that.

1553
01:18:20.319 --> 01:18:20.760
<v Speaker 8>I don't know.

1554
01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:21.399
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

1555
01:18:21.439 --> 01:18:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Iftive it may give us more AMMO to say that, hey,

1556
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:29.199
<v Speaker 2>this universe thing actually is just a natural phenomenon and

1557
01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:33.159
<v Speaker 2>isn't the part of a divine creator. So there's something

1558
01:18:33.199 --> 01:18:33.399
<v Speaker 2>to that.

1559
01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe Yeah, I'm still saying that. I would say

1560
01:18:36.640 --> 01:18:40.359
<v Speaker 3>that either way though, So that's because I don't have

1561
01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:43.239
<v Speaker 3>I still don't have the God, the prime mover. I

1562
01:18:43.239 --> 01:18:46.119
<v Speaker 3>don't have the thing right from the beginning, from the

1563
01:18:46.159 --> 01:18:49.439
<v Speaker 3>beginning anyway, Like, I'm just not sure how the argument

1564
01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:53.319
<v Speaker 3>changed and what that does for humanity to be, Like,

1565
01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:56.319
<v Speaker 3>all right now it's now it's cyclical, it's no longer linear.

1566
01:18:56.560 --> 01:19:00.199
<v Speaker 3>What did we achieve? And you know what, I'm I'm

1567
01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:03.960
<v Speaker 3>genuinely approaching this as somebody who is like not familiar

1568
01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:07.399
<v Speaker 3>with this stuff. So forgive me if I sound like

1569
01:19:07.439 --> 01:19:11.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm unappreciative or whatever. I just I think I need

1570
01:19:11.319 --> 01:19:12.520
<v Speaker 3>more education and.

1571
01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.720
<v Speaker 5>Something the work. I mean, it's all initial It's I

1572
01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:17.720
<v Speaker 5>might be jumping the guns, but I think this takes

1573
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:20.159
<v Speaker 5>the prime we were argument away from thedism. What do

1574
01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:20.800
<v Speaker 5>you guys think?

1575
01:19:21.039 --> 01:19:24.239
<v Speaker 1>I actually that's initially what I thought of been there. Yeah,

1576
01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:26.840
<v Speaker 1>And if it just goes around in circles itself. I

1577
01:19:26.880 --> 01:19:29.760
<v Speaker 1>do think that if someone believes in the prime mover argument,

1578
01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>they are not going to buy this. I don't think

1579
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that it will change the minds of people who because

1580
01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:37.079
<v Speaker 1>then they could also ask, well, what set the cycle

1581
01:19:37.119 --> 01:19:39.319
<v Speaker 1>in motion? Right like, I think that that would still

1582
01:19:39.359 --> 01:19:42.239
<v Speaker 1>be where they might come from also in what I'm

1583
01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:44.880
<v Speaker 1>looking at. So I just like this is just interesting.

1584
01:19:44.920 --> 01:19:46.760
<v Speaker 1>I actually, as more i'm reading about I'm probably going

1585
01:19:46.800 --> 01:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>to nerd out about this today. I am not a

1586
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:51.880
<v Speaker 1>super big brain science person, but I just think it's

1587
01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:55.760
<v Speaker 1>really fun. There is reason to believe it might be

1588
01:19:55.880 --> 01:20:00.319
<v Speaker 1>a variable that we actually there's all it will. All

1589
01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:03.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm finding is that there's reason to believe that the

1590
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.840
<v Speaker 1>dark energy has been faster in the past, so not

1591
01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:08.560
<v Speaker 1>even that we can observe its swing down, but that

1592
01:20:08.600 --> 01:20:12.520
<v Speaker 1>it has been faster. And it's also possible that it

1593
01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:15.640
<v Speaker 1>could speed up again because we so misunderstand maybe or

1594
01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:18.439
<v Speaker 1>don't understand what it's really doing, which would change a

1595
01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:21.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of our models and ideas of physics. And so

1596
01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:24.600
<v Speaker 1>in that respect, I think it's kind of cool to

1597
01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:28.680
<v Speaker 1>see that we're still uncovering how the universe works. I

1598
01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:31.319
<v Speaker 1>think that, yeah, it probably doesn't have a lot of

1599
01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:32.920
<v Speaker 1>impact on my day to day, and I don't think

1600
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:34.479
<v Speaker 1>it's really going to change a lot of the big

1601
01:20:34.600 --> 01:20:38.399
<v Speaker 1>arguments for against God, particularly if it turns out to

1602
01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:38.960
<v Speaker 1>be variable.

1603
01:20:39.279 --> 01:20:42.119
<v Speaker 2>The thing is, if you talk to Young Earth creations,

1604
01:20:42.119 --> 01:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>half of them don't even believe in dark matter and

1605
01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:46.359
<v Speaker 2>dark energy anyway. A lot of them are just say, oh,

1606
01:20:46.399 --> 01:20:49.319
<v Speaker 2>these are made up by astronomers because they can't account

1607
01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:54.880
<v Speaker 2>for anomalies that we observe in the observable universe, right

1608
01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:57.399
<v Speaker 2>because like red shift and stuff, the stuff that we

1609
01:20:57.439 --> 01:20:59.359
<v Speaker 2>figure out is like, hey, this is how we know

1610
01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:02.239
<v Speaker 2>stuff is being a lot of Young Earth creationists don't

1611
01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:05.600
<v Speaker 2>even say that that those observations are real either. So

1612
01:21:06.479 --> 01:21:07.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, you kind of have to already be a

1613
01:21:07.960 --> 01:21:10.720
<v Speaker 2>believer in dark energy and dark matter for it to

1614
01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:12.840
<v Speaker 2>really convince you one way or the other. But Steve,

1615
01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:15.640
<v Speaker 2>I still think it's cool. I appreciate that you brought

1616
01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:17.319
<v Speaker 2>this up to the table. We do have some other

1617
01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:19.000
<v Speaker 2>callers here and we want to try to get at

1618
01:21:19.039 --> 01:21:21.399
<v Speaker 2>least one or maybe two more folks before we before

1619
01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:24.079
<v Speaker 2>we end today's show. So I'm gonna I'm gonna drop

1620
01:21:24.119 --> 01:21:26.159
<v Speaker 2>you out right now. But thank you for calling in

1621
01:21:26.399 --> 01:21:30.560
<v Speaker 2>and appreciate talking to you. That was a cool topic.

1622
01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I say, I don't know, I don't know. Maybe I'm

1623
01:21:32.920 --> 01:21:35.079
<v Speaker 2>not the most relevant to us, but I'm no. I'm

1624
01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:37.840
<v Speaker 2>no big city astronomer. I don't know the ins and

1625
01:21:37.840 --> 01:21:40.319
<v Speaker 2>outs of this whole stuff. My knowledge of astronomy. I

1626
01:21:40.319 --> 01:21:43.039
<v Speaker 2>took one astronomy course in college and I've watched some

1627
01:21:43.159 --> 01:21:46.760
<v Speaker 2>kurzkaz At videos. I think that's the extent of my education.

1628
01:21:47.079 --> 01:21:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Not Jay.

1629
01:21:47.960 --> 01:21:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, mine is that my husband watches PBS Spacetime and

1630
01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:53.239
<v Speaker 1>then tries to explain it to me. That's that's basically

1631
01:21:53.279 --> 01:21:53.840
<v Speaker 1>what I like.

1632
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>That guy, guy with the beard, That's like, yeah, I

1633
01:21:56.960 --> 01:21:57.520
<v Speaker 2>know that guy.

1634
01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:01.840
<v Speaker 1>It's really interesting. I mean, I like, just from a standpoint,

1635
01:22:01.880 --> 01:22:04.600
<v Speaker 1>part of how I stopped being a Christian and even

1636
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:07.039
<v Speaker 1>a Young Earth kind of Christian is just wonder at

1637
01:22:07.079 --> 01:22:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the universe and what we can find out through science.

1638
01:22:08.960 --> 01:22:10.560
<v Speaker 1>So there's a part of me that it's just the

1639
01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:15.600
<v Speaker 1>excitement at discovery and at how science can explore things

1640
01:22:15.640 --> 01:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>that actually led me down a path of just more

1641
01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:19.680
<v Speaker 1>reason in general. So I guess for me, I'm like,

1642
01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:23.960
<v Speaker 1>there's you know, there's virtue in spending time just being excited.

1643
01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:26.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, He's like, no, bring out the bears.

1644
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, bears. Bears are always an option.

1645
01:22:32.119 --> 01:22:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I just wanted to Well.

1646
01:22:34.359 --> 01:22:37.439
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you, I think Sophia nailed that one, because

1647
01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:40.479
<v Speaker 3>have you ever spoken to a theist. I mean, they'll yeah,

1648
01:22:40.479 --> 01:22:43.600
<v Speaker 3>of course, who set the cycle in motion? Right, that

1649
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:47.680
<v Speaker 3>theists will wait for the scientific community to do all

1650
01:22:47.720 --> 01:22:51.640
<v Speaker 3>of the work over decades and centuries and go yeah,

1651
01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:55.039
<v Speaker 3>but god right, and so it really won't matter. And

1652
01:22:55.119 --> 01:22:56.479
<v Speaker 3>so that's kind of my frustration.

1653
01:22:56.720 --> 01:23:00.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, we ken Ham saying, were you there again.

1654
01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:04.000
<v Speaker 2>For our purposes? For our purposes as debate lords, it

1655
01:23:04.039 --> 01:23:07.279
<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter? I say, yeah, I think the I.

1656
01:23:07.239 --> 01:23:10.199
<v Speaker 1>Don't want to think of myself as a debate It's terrible,

1657
01:23:10.239 --> 01:23:11.840
<v Speaker 1>isn't it.

1658
01:23:11.039 --> 01:23:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Okay, let's see if we can get at least

1659
01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:18.159
<v Speaker 2>one more, maybe another. Maybe we'll see, But I think

1660
01:23:18.319 --> 01:23:22.399
<v Speaker 2>I want to talk to Shaquille. Shaquille calling in from England,

1661
01:23:23.479 --> 01:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>asking us why would God be okay with the concept

1662
01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:30.159
<v Speaker 2>of money. I want to hear your take on this, Shaquille.

1663
01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, you are alive on talk Heathen. Shaquille, you

1664
01:23:32.359 --> 01:23:35.199
<v Speaker 2>are alive on talk Ethen. If you're there, speak now

1665
01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:37.760
<v Speaker 2>or forever. Holds your piece, because I will have to

1666
01:23:37.840 --> 01:23:40.479
<v Speaker 2>let you go otherwise. Sorry, Shaquille, I know you've been

1667
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:42.439
<v Speaker 2>waiting for a long time. You probably went up to

1668
01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:45.359
<v Speaker 2>go to the bathroom or something, and now it's it's

1669
01:23:45.399 --> 01:23:47.520
<v Speaker 2>too late. I'm so sorry. But we do have another

1670
01:23:47.560 --> 01:23:49.840
<v Speaker 2>call here. We're going to talk to d who's calling

1671
01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:53.199
<v Speaker 2>in from Iowa. D is asking how can an imperfect

1672
01:23:53.199 --> 01:23:56.720
<v Speaker 2>being imagine a supremely perfect being? And how does that

1673
01:23:56.760 --> 01:24:02.079
<v Speaker 2>help improve a society in chaos? Interesting premise, du feel

1674
01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:03.279
<v Speaker 2>free to expound on that.

1675
01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:10.560
<v Speaker 9>Hi all, nice to talk to you again. Yeah, what

1676
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:14.239
<v Speaker 9>was the philosopher? It wasn't I keep wanting to say, paths.

1677
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:20.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're so excited to tell you.

1678
01:24:19.880 --> 01:24:23.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, we were so busy googling things earlier and

1679
01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:25.720
<v Speaker 2>now you know totally.

1680
01:24:27.640 --> 01:24:34.039
<v Speaker 9>Oh my, but it's completely circular reasoning. I'm thinking of

1681
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:34.520
<v Speaker 9>a god.

1682
01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:38.319
<v Speaker 10>Therefore, God exists, but God can only exist because I'm.

1683
01:24:38.159 --> 01:24:39.399
<v Speaker 9>Thinking of them.

1684
01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And.

1685
01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:46.159
<v Speaker 9>Really the whole premise falls apart because the being thinking

1686
01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:53.239
<v Speaker 9>about the God is imperfect, So how can imperfection imagine perfection?

1687
01:24:53.680 --> 01:24:57.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a reason why Descartes isn't known as one

1688
01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.600
<v Speaker 2>of the great theologians of his time. Like, this argument

1689
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:05.319
<v Speaker 2>that is presented to us today has been criticized before.

1690
01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:08.199
<v Speaker 2>We're certainly not the first people to break it apart,

1691
01:25:08.399 --> 01:25:11.159
<v Speaker 2>and it's not one of his better well formulated thoughts

1692
01:25:11.239 --> 01:25:13.520
<v Speaker 2>or ideas. There's reason why people think of Descartes as

1693
01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the think therefore I am guy and not the existence

1694
01:25:16.880 --> 01:25:20.079
<v Speaker 2>of God guy. A lot of people, the scholars included,

1695
01:25:20.159 --> 01:25:23.640
<v Speaker 2>don't find this super convincing, right, for reasons we've already

1696
01:25:23.680 --> 01:25:26.239
<v Speaker 2>talked about. But Descartes was like, nah, this is this

1697
01:25:26.319 --> 01:25:29.079
<v Speaker 2>is the key, This is it right here? So I

1698
01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:31.039
<v Speaker 2>don't know. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.

1699
01:25:31.079 --> 01:25:33.560
<v Speaker 2>How can we even understand what a perfect being is?

1700
01:25:34.279 --> 01:25:37.520
<v Speaker 2>But that's kind of Descard's point, though, to his credit,

1701
01:25:37.560 --> 01:25:39.520
<v Speaker 2>his thing is, well, we can't understand it, but we

1702
01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:41.600
<v Speaker 2>have an idea of it. So where does that come from?

1703
01:25:41.640 --> 01:25:44.119
<v Speaker 2>It has to come from outside ourselves because we're not

1704
01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:46.720
<v Speaker 2>perfect beings. That's kind of his whole his whole stick

1705
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:49.119
<v Speaker 2>there is I cannot convince ourselves.

1706
01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I cannot define it, but I've got the vibes.

1707
01:25:52.000 --> 01:25:55.399
<v Speaker 1>So therefore it is really ironic to me also that

1708
01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:58.199
<v Speaker 1>a lot of folks who will use this argument that

1709
01:25:58.720 --> 01:26:01.079
<v Speaker 1>atheists just want to be their own God, well also

1710
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:04.800
<v Speaker 1>essentially use arguments that just invent God because they thought

1711
01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:07.600
<v Speaker 1>of him. And I find that a little bit funny.

1712
01:26:07.439 --> 01:26:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is like, maybe we have some better Like

1713
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:12.239
<v Speaker 2>maybe God just has to, like I don't know, write

1714
01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:14.800
<v Speaker 2>me a letter at least, or just like talk to me.

1715
01:26:14.920 --> 01:26:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just feel like that's gonna be

1716
01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:19.159
<v Speaker 2>way more convincing than just well, if I think about

1717
01:26:19.159 --> 01:26:22.840
<v Speaker 2>it real hard, I know that he's out there, so

1718
01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:23.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1719
01:26:24.680 --> 01:26:31.439
<v Speaker 9>My main point is that old philosophers are dead and

1720
01:26:32.640 --> 01:26:35.960
<v Speaker 9>they tweet they can't they can't help us. They can't

1721
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:40.840
<v Speaker 9>help us right now. Okay, dey can't you know, pastoral,

1722
01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:43.680
<v Speaker 9>all of these guys, they can't help us right now.

1723
01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:49.359
<v Speaker 9>We're in a situation where, uh, you know, in a

1724
01:26:49.359 --> 01:26:52.720
<v Speaker 9>little over a month, we're going to see.

1725
01:26:53.119 --> 01:26:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Let me think about this though, de you. I mean,

1726
01:26:55.039 --> 01:26:58.079
<v Speaker 2>you say, maybe it's not helpful to us as American

1727
01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:00.960
<v Speaker 2>broad society, but like, how many of us has started

1728
01:27:01.000 --> 01:27:04.319
<v Speaker 2>our journey questioning things and figuring things out because they

1729
01:27:04.359 --> 01:27:08.000
<v Speaker 2>read Plato's Allegory of the Cave right, Like how many

1730
01:27:08.039 --> 01:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>people have discovered an entire worldview that first started because somebody,

1731
01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>a philosopher, asked them a question that people just hadn't

1732
01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:20.720
<v Speaker 2>considered before. I mean, yeah, is it you know, are

1733
01:27:20.840 --> 01:27:24.840
<v Speaker 2>the individual philosopher I'm trying to think of, Like, you know,

1734
01:27:25.199 --> 01:27:30.960
<v Speaker 2>is explorations of myriological nihilism going to help fishermen in Taiwan?

1735
01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:31.199
<v Speaker 9>Know?

1736
01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Like, it's not obviously useful for everything in our lives,

1737
01:27:34.319 --> 01:27:37.800
<v Speaker 2>but it is useful for at least considering things that

1738
01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:40.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe we hadn't considered before. And I do think there's

1739
01:27:40.239 --> 01:27:42.159
<v Speaker 2>value to that. No, I don't think Descartes going to

1740
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:46.039
<v Speaker 2>solve all of our issues or Blaze, Pascal or anybody,

1741
01:27:46.079 --> 01:27:49.159
<v Speaker 2>but they are still valuable to us. And I think

1742
01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:51.119
<v Speaker 2>there is a reason why we should continue to look

1743
01:27:51.159 --> 01:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>at these guys because they do say something about the

1744
01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:57.000
<v Speaker 2>human spirit, if anything, which is that if we think

1745
01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>about stuff enough, maybe we can figure out the world

1746
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:02.560
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of a radical premise in and of itself.

1747
01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:05.479
<v Speaker 2>In Christianity, we're taught that the world is set, that

1748
01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:07.119
<v Speaker 2>there is a God and there is a devil, and

1749
01:28:07.119 --> 01:28:09.079
<v Speaker 2>they're going to fight it out and it doesn't matter

1750
01:28:09.119 --> 01:28:12.880
<v Speaker 2>because it's all there for us. Whereas philosophy in general

1751
01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:15.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of says and works under this idea that, well,

1752
01:28:16.159 --> 01:28:18.439
<v Speaker 2>maybe we have to be the authors of our own

1753
01:28:18.520 --> 01:28:21.359
<v Speaker 2>destiny and figure things out and think things through and

1754
01:28:21.399 --> 01:28:23.920
<v Speaker 2>find our own solutions to problems that may or may

1755
01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:26.479
<v Speaker 2>not come from a god. So I don't know, maybe

1756
01:28:26.520 --> 01:28:28.119
<v Speaker 2>I push back on that. I think that there is

1757
01:28:28.159 --> 01:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>some value to it, but that's just my take. I

1758
01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:30.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know what you guys think.

1759
01:28:31.239 --> 01:28:34.159
<v Speaker 1>I think that I very much sympathize with the idea

1760
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:36.479
<v Speaker 1>of just being like, who cares what these guys thought?

1761
01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:40.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's a because I think so often folks

1762
01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:44.199
<v Speaker 1>are turned off by philosophy, particularly in online discourse, because

1763
01:28:44.760 --> 01:28:48.279
<v Speaker 1>it's brought up like, well, this old ancient person said this,

1764
01:28:48.399 --> 01:28:51.840
<v Speaker 1>therefore women belong in the home, or like some bizarre

1765
01:28:52.039 --> 01:28:56.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of justification, And I think that sure has more

1766
01:28:56.279 --> 01:28:58.600
<v Speaker 1>to do with the individual who's making these arguments than

1767
01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:01.239
<v Speaker 1>it does the actual idea and arguments. But I think

1768
01:29:01.279 --> 01:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I do understand the temptation to sometimes just be like okay,

1769
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:07.039
<v Speaker 1>but like, why should I do that because some guy

1770
01:29:07.079 --> 01:29:10.239
<v Speaker 1>two thousand years ago said it, which I think sometimes

1771
01:29:10.239 --> 01:29:15.560
<v Speaker 1>people replace Jesus figures and religious figures with philosophers with

1772
01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:18.279
<v Speaker 1>looking for another source of authority, and they decide that

1773
01:29:18.279 --> 01:29:20.680
<v Speaker 1>that's going to be like these old smart men, which

1774
01:29:20.720 --> 01:29:23.920
<v Speaker 1>is cool and interesting to study. I definitely, though, sympathize

1775
01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:25.560
<v Speaker 1>with the point that you just made about, you know,

1776
01:29:25.640 --> 01:29:27.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of what it says about the human spirit and

1777
01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:31.800
<v Speaker 1>the experience of being human. The name I've selected Sophia Spina.

1778
01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Spina is Forced Spinoza, you know, the guy who was

1779
01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:41.600
<v Speaker 1>excommunicated from the to the Jewish community in Amsterdam in

1780
01:29:41.680 --> 01:29:44.720
<v Speaker 1>the sixteen hundreds because he started to advocate for secular government.

1781
01:29:44.760 --> 01:29:47.520
<v Speaker 1>His arguments are still incredibly relevant today. I clearly find

1782
01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:51.520
<v Speaker 1>him inspiring, and I think that matters. I think we

1783
01:29:51.520 --> 01:29:55.880
<v Speaker 1>can also actually very practically argue that. So I'm sort

1784
01:29:55.920 --> 01:29:58.800
<v Speaker 1>of working in the mental health field, and a lot

1785
01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:02.319
<v Speaker 1>of mental health theories are are really based on old philosophers.

1786
01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Existentialism is a counseling theory that has to do with

1787
01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:09.800
<v Speaker 1>how you you know, create how you find meaning and

1788
01:30:09.840 --> 01:30:12.399
<v Speaker 1>then you know, constructivism is also used in counseling and

1789
01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:14.159
<v Speaker 1>like how you actually create that and how it's built

1790
01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:18.079
<v Speaker 1>through society. So they are very there are very practical applications,

1791
01:30:18.600 --> 01:30:21.079
<v Speaker 1>and I very much gain a lot from this. But

1792
01:30:21.199 --> 01:30:23.800
<v Speaker 1>also I do I am sympathetic to being like fuck

1793
01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:26.880
<v Speaker 1>those guys, you know, on occasion you could say both, I.

1794
01:30:26.840 --> 01:30:29.479
<v Speaker 2>Feel like fuck these guys, but also they are kind

1795
01:30:29.479 --> 01:30:31.720
<v Speaker 2>of valuable sometimes I'm okay with that.

1796
01:30:31.840 --> 01:30:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Take what's good to the rest, right. Yeah, yeah, I

1797
01:30:34.359 --> 01:30:36.159
<v Speaker 1>don't think it's a contradiction. I just think it's sort

1798
01:30:36.199 --> 01:30:39.880
<v Speaker 1>of like a these things can coexist and definitely definitely do.

1799
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:44.039
<v Speaker 9>Hell yeah, okay, yeah that makes sense. But I was

1800
01:30:44.199 --> 01:30:49.640
<v Speaker 9>actually really interested in Jimmy's comment that you know, he's

1801
01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:54.600
<v Speaker 9>he's interested in the power structures that religion has created,

1802
01:30:54.960 --> 01:31:00.760
<v Speaker 9>and THU of those power structures, I think maybe extension

1803
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:04.840
<v Speaker 9>I could I could suppose possibly the GIV you could

1804
01:31:04.880 --> 01:31:07.720
<v Speaker 9>have gone on to say, you know that these power

1805
01:31:07.800 --> 01:31:13.359
<v Speaker 9>structures are reaching into places where they don't belong, you know,

1806
01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:15.520
<v Speaker 9>like a secular government, and.

1807
01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:20.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, well they're these these ancient power structures. Yeah,

1808
01:31:20.640 --> 01:31:24.399
<v Speaker 3>so these ancient power structures over a period of centuries

1809
01:31:24.439 --> 01:31:27.880
<v Speaker 3>have increasingly been challenged by other power structures that have

1810
01:31:27.920 --> 01:31:31.159
<v Speaker 3>popped up, like secular governments. In our own time, we're

1811
01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:36.800
<v Speaker 3>seeing corporations, Uh, we are seeing transnational organizations, and we

1812
01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:41.159
<v Speaker 3>are seeing international organizations or non governmental organizations that are

1813
01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:44.359
<v Speaker 3>popping up and they're creating their own power and they're

1814
01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:49.079
<v Speaker 3>rendering the church more and more inefficient or necessary.

1815
01:31:49.159 --> 01:31:49.319
<v Speaker 9>Right.

1816
01:31:49.399 --> 01:31:53.239
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, that that plays into why the church has

1817
01:31:53.319 --> 01:31:55.560
<v Speaker 3>to change so much. We've talked about it. I think

1818
01:31:55.640 --> 01:31:58.319
<v Speaker 3>Dan brought it up a little bit earlier. You know, Uh,

1819
01:31:58.359 --> 01:32:02.039
<v Speaker 3>in the case of Brazil, Brazil being a unique kind

1820
01:32:02.039 --> 01:32:06.520
<v Speaker 3>of mixing of cultures and just having to change along

1821
01:32:06.560 --> 01:32:10.880
<v Speaker 3>with those cultures because otherwise they lose their influence. You know,

1822
01:32:10.920 --> 01:32:14.760
<v Speaker 3>there was a time where religion was the sole form

1823
01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:19.039
<v Speaker 3>of government, the sole power structure that ordered society kept

1824
01:32:19.039 --> 01:32:24.279
<v Speaker 3>things going, and that has dissipated and kind of all

1825
01:32:24.319 --> 01:32:27.800
<v Speaker 3>but disintegrated with the rise of other power structures, and

1826
01:32:28.039 --> 01:32:31.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, they still try and gain their influence. We're

1827
01:32:31.159 --> 01:32:34.640
<v Speaker 3>seeing that in the United States now, we're seeing more

1828
01:32:34.760 --> 01:32:40.560
<v Speaker 3>right wing Christian organizations reach into the government offer their

1829
01:32:40.680 --> 01:32:44.880
<v Speaker 3>financial support in return for an upholding of their traditions

1830
01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:48.560
<v Speaker 3>and values, and unfortunately, we're seeing a large swath of

1831
01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:52.840
<v Speaker 3>elected officials giving into that power structure and helping to

1832
01:32:52.920 --> 01:32:56.720
<v Speaker 3>revive it when it was actually in decline. So yeah,

1833
01:32:56.720 --> 01:32:59.119
<v Speaker 3>I mean that's my take on it. I think when

1834
01:32:59.119 --> 01:33:03.039
<v Speaker 3>it comes to let's say, Catholicism, they've been fracturing for

1835
01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:05.760
<v Speaker 3>a really long time and they still continue to fracture,

1836
01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:08.680
<v Speaker 3>and they're not as effective as a power structure as

1837
01:33:08.680 --> 01:33:09.199
<v Speaker 3>they used to be.

1838
01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yep. But if you want to explore power structures,

1839
01:33:12.800 --> 01:33:14.680
<v Speaker 2>philosophy is also a good way to do that too,

1840
01:33:14.920 --> 01:33:18.920
<v Speaker 2>just saying yeah, that's like the entirety of postmodern literature

1841
01:33:19.279 --> 01:33:21.479
<v Speaker 2>in the twentieth century, Like a lot of it is

1842
01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:23.159
<v Speaker 2>about power structures.

1843
01:33:22.640 --> 01:33:25.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, and d on on on your first comment,

1844
01:33:25.960 --> 01:33:27.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, I kind of sat back, you know, because

1845
01:33:27.600 --> 01:33:30.560
<v Speaker 3>there's three hosts today. You know, there's a lot of talking, right,

1846
01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:35.720
<v Speaker 3>we could we could mostly Dan it's you when there's

1847
01:33:35.720 --> 01:33:39.760
<v Speaker 3>two hosts. So yeah, Chris, so right, let's just let's

1848
01:33:39.760 --> 01:33:41.279
<v Speaker 3>just call it what it is now. But seriously, d

1849
01:33:42.159 --> 01:33:45.199
<v Speaker 3>you know, there, what good are the philosophies or the

1850
01:33:45.239 --> 01:33:47.600
<v Speaker 3>philosophers of the past. I mean, think of the people

1851
01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:50.399
<v Speaker 3>who stood up when nobody else stood up, right, think

1852
01:33:50.439 --> 01:33:52.520
<v Speaker 3>of the work that they did. I think Sophia, you know,

1853
01:33:52.640 --> 01:33:55.039
<v Speaker 3>talked about this a little bit, but uh, people that

1854
01:33:55.079 --> 01:33:56.880
<v Speaker 3>were burned at the stake, you know, or people that

1855
01:33:56.920 --> 01:33:59.640
<v Speaker 3>were threatened with those kinds of things because they had

1856
01:33:59.640 --> 01:34:03.359
<v Speaker 3>the gut to challenge it. I, for one, you know,

1857
01:34:03.600 --> 01:34:05.960
<v Speaker 3>feel like I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, you know,

1858
01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:09.600
<v Speaker 3>just because I feel like we're progressing in the right

1859
01:34:09.640 --> 01:34:13.640
<v Speaker 3>direction by challenging these power structures that tell us, hey,

1860
01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:15.920
<v Speaker 3>this is the way, and we could say nope, you know,

1861
01:34:16.079 --> 01:34:16.800
<v Speaker 3>you're not the way.

1862
01:34:16.960 --> 01:34:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Hell yeah, hell yeah. That's all the time that we got.

1863
01:34:19.319 --> 01:34:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Any last last remarks you want to make before we

1864
01:34:22.199 --> 01:34:22.720
<v Speaker 2>let you go.

1865
01:34:22.920 --> 01:34:29.680
<v Speaker 9>No, thank you for your views. It's definitely helping me

1866
01:34:29.800 --> 01:34:34.960
<v Speaker 9>take a longer view. And yeah, I think I'll spend

1867
01:34:34.960 --> 01:34:38.720
<v Speaker 9>some time doing some more reading. And thank you guys,

1868
01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:40.640
<v Speaker 9>it's been great talking to you.

1869
01:34:40.840 --> 01:34:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, Thank you, d thank you for

1870
01:34:44.119 --> 01:34:44.479
<v Speaker 2>your call.

1871
01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:48.520
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned something really quick before we end. I just

1872
01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:51.720
<v Speaker 1>want to acknowledge it. Today is World Aid's Day, and

1873
01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:54.640
<v Speaker 1>want to just remember that so many folks are not

1874
01:34:54.720 --> 01:34:58.159
<v Speaker 1>here with us today because of bigotry that led to

1875
01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:02.640
<v Speaker 1>a lack of public informa, a lack of research, and

1876
01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the fact that, for oftentimes very religious reasons, folks were

1877
01:35:06.880 --> 01:35:09.600
<v Speaker 1>okay with the death that were happening in the gay community.

1878
01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:13.079
<v Speaker 1>And so just putting that out there that today is

1879
01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:15.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, I started by talking about it being a

1880
01:35:15.239 --> 01:35:17.399
<v Speaker 1>bit of a day of sorrow, but I also think

1881
01:35:17.479 --> 01:35:20.800
<v Speaker 1>just remembering that there are people who will try to

1882
01:35:21.000 --> 01:35:23.640
<v Speaker 1>remember you, that this matters, that it matters that we

1883
01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:26.520
<v Speaker 1>keep questioning and pushing forward. I just wanted to throw

1884
01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:29.079
<v Speaker 1>that out there because it is a day to remember

1885
01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:29.680
<v Speaker 1>all those things.

1886
01:35:29.840 --> 01:35:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, thank you for bringing that announcement into the end here,

1887
01:35:34.199 --> 01:35:35.880
<v Speaker 2>because it was something we said we wanted to do

1888
01:35:35.920 --> 01:35:38.039
<v Speaker 2>earlier and we almost did get to it by Sophia

1889
01:35:38.079 --> 01:35:42.800
<v Speaker 2>remembered and that's why she's on the team. But I

1890
01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:45.560
<v Speaker 2>want to point out that I want to say thank

1891
01:35:45.600 --> 01:35:47.640
<v Speaker 2>you for to everybody that supports the show in all

1892
01:35:47.640 --> 01:35:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the various ways that you have. There are other ways

1893
01:35:50.840 --> 01:35:52.479
<v Speaker 2>you can support the show. We mentioned one of them,

1894
01:35:52.479 --> 01:35:54.560
<v Speaker 2>which is the Patreon, but of course even just liking

1895
01:35:54.760 --> 01:35:57.439
<v Speaker 2>and subscribing and leaving a comment is a great way

1896
01:35:57.520 --> 01:35:59.439
<v Speaker 2>to support it. And last but not least the super

1897
01:35:59.520 --> 01:36:02.119
<v Speaker 2>chats as well, which I have another one here which

1898
01:36:02.199 --> 01:36:05.000
<v Speaker 2>was a dollar ninety nine from Buster Bear said what

1899
01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:09.880
<v Speaker 2>led me away interacting with Christians, So that's a take

1900
01:36:10.039 --> 01:36:13.600
<v Speaker 2>that I think a lot of people can agree with. Unfortunately, folks,

1901
01:36:13.680 --> 01:36:16.840
<v Speaker 2>that does mean the vault it's getting closed. It's not

1902
01:36:17.239 --> 01:36:21.279
<v Speaker 2>coming out today. But next time we will see if

1903
01:36:21.399 --> 01:36:23.359
<v Speaker 2>those pictures will come out. Maybe if all three of

1904
01:36:23.439 --> 01:36:26.800
<v Speaker 2>us host together again, I don't know, we'll see what

1905
01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:30.479
<v Speaker 2>goes with that, but next time we'll maybe hit that goal.

1906
01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:33.079
<v Speaker 2>But we appreciate all of you guys that donate it

1907
01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:35.800
<v Speaker 2>anyways despite the fact, because it does help the atheist

1908
01:36:35.920 --> 01:36:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Munium Austin and it tells them, hey, talk Heathan is

1909
01:36:38.359 --> 01:36:41.439
<v Speaker 2>a show that's worth supporting. So we appreciate you doing that.

1910
01:36:41.479 --> 01:36:43.119
<v Speaker 2>And if you're going to comment today, also you should

1911
01:36:43.600 --> 01:36:46.319
<v Speaker 2>comment on the prompt this week, which is what's the

1912
01:36:46.399 --> 01:36:50.520
<v Speaker 2>difference between Jesus the Tooth Fairy and Sasquatch. Leave your

1913
01:36:50.560 --> 01:36:53.479
<v Speaker 2>comment below, and the best three answers we will read

1914
01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:57.600
<v Speaker 2>next week. And discord, I think some folks are going

1915
01:36:57.640 --> 01:37:00.720
<v Speaker 2>to be in the discord after sure make it today,

1916
01:37:00.720 --> 01:37:05.279
<v Speaker 2>but Sophila is gonna Yeah, I got an appointment at

1917
01:37:05.319 --> 01:37:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Men's Warehouse. I gotta go to h Iron. Go, but

1918
01:37:07.640 --> 01:37:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Sophia is going so thank you so much, Sophia holding down.

1919
01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:14.640
<v Speaker 3>The fort in the background, I have to give a

1920
01:37:14.680 --> 01:37:17.640
<v Speaker 3>reason to My teenage daughter is watching my toddler while

1921
01:37:17.640 --> 01:37:20.279
<v Speaker 3>I do this. I have to go relieve her. I

1922
01:37:20.319 --> 01:37:23.079
<v Speaker 3>don't want anybody to think I'm rejecting you. I love

1923
01:37:23.359 --> 01:37:24.079
<v Speaker 3>the After Show.

1924
01:37:25.439 --> 01:37:28.880
<v Speaker 2>I I I pray that Jimmy doesn't reject me every

1925
01:37:28.920 --> 01:37:31.960
<v Speaker 2>single day, mostly about the Bears thing. I think the

1926
01:37:31.960 --> 01:37:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Bears scary, but also his love is is something I desire.

1927
01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:37.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where I'm going with this comment.

1928
01:37:37.279 --> 01:37:39.039
<v Speaker 1>I just love the idea that there's talk, there's going

1929
01:37:39.119 --> 01:37:41.720
<v Speaker 1>to be talk e than lore, that Jimmy controls Bears,

1930
01:37:41.880 --> 01:37:43.720
<v Speaker 1>and then that's just going to be how that goes.

1931
01:37:43.760 --> 01:37:47.319
<v Speaker 3>Now, I'm I am okay with that rumor. That's something

1932
01:37:47.600 --> 01:37:48.439
<v Speaker 3>happy to support.

1933
01:37:48.439 --> 01:37:51.640
<v Speaker 2>That he is like an Erson? What what like erson a?

1934
01:37:51.760 --> 01:37:53.399
<v Speaker 2>That's what bears are? What I'm trying to think of

1935
01:37:53.479 --> 01:37:56.760
<v Speaker 2>an Erson a mage or something some.

1936
01:37:56.840 --> 01:38:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Sort of drewid of some kind of that's simpler.

1937
01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:04.279
<v Speaker 2>I think Jimmy's just a druid. Yeah, our eventual d

1938
01:38:04.359 --> 01:38:06.600
<v Speaker 2>and d campaign. We got to write this down. I'm

1939
01:38:06.600 --> 01:38:09.600
<v Speaker 2>a paladin because palad Dan and then Jimmy's drew it.

1940
01:38:09.840 --> 01:38:13.079
<v Speaker 2>So there we go. All right, Okay, enough enough talking,

1941
01:38:13.079 --> 01:38:16.319
<v Speaker 2>even Laura. Let's let's get this thing wrapped up, folks.

1942
01:38:16.760 --> 01:38:19.960
<v Speaker 2>If well, we'll hang on, well almost, I'm getting my

1943
01:38:20.239 --> 01:38:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting my things mixed up here. If you don't believe,

1944
01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:28.079
<v Speaker 2>this is your community, and we appreciate you being here.

1945
01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:30.439
<v Speaker 2>If you do believe, we don't hate you.

1946
01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:32.920
<v Speaker 1>We're just not convinced, just not convinced.

1947
01:38:32.920 --> 01:38:36.359
<v Speaker 2>There's those love rings coming out, giving them all to you, guys.

1948
01:38:36.439 --> 01:38:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to everybody watching another week's episode of Talk

1949
01:38:40.159 --> 01:38:43.720
<v Speaker 2>hethan this has been Jimmie Junior, Sophia Spina and objectively

1950
01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Dan coming to you, uh this Sunday. Remember to Uh,

1951
01:38:48.680 --> 01:38:50.359
<v Speaker 2>I'd say remember to always keep on the truth. But

1952
01:38:50.399 --> 01:38:52.560
<v Speaker 2>that's a different show. We already did the We already

1953
01:38:52.560 --> 01:38:55.479
<v Speaker 2>did the outro. Let's just come here.

1954
01:39:14.479 --> 01:39:18.159
<v Speaker 12>We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted Live Friday

1955
01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:22.239
<v Speaker 12>at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y

1956
01:39:22.359 --> 01:39:25.520
<v Speaker 12>t tw and call into the show at five one

1957
01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:29.760
<v Speaker 12>two nine nine two four two, or connect to the

1958
01:39:29.800 --> 01:39:34.039
<v Speaker 12>show online at tiny dot cc slash call tw