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<v Speaker 1>You're on the bus an hour from home, and bumper

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<v Speaker 1>to bumper traffic creeping forward a few inches at a time,

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<v Speaker 1>someone's kids are screaming, and suddenly your back is too. Luckily,

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<v Speaker 1>Panadal extra film coated tablets are boosted by caffeine and

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<v Speaker 1>they get to work in as little as ten minutes

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<v Speaker 1>for powerful relief. That's more than just paracetamol. That's one

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<v Speaker 1>for panadal speed based on absorption data. Contains paracetamol. Always

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<v Speaker 1>read the label or leaflet.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's your grandma's new boyfriend who just wants

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<v Speaker 2>to show you some magic tricks. Ali Ward back with

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<v Speaker 2>another episode. Apologies, so it's Tuesday, man, Let's learn about

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<v Speaker 2>some aunts. They're tiny, they're mighty, they're harmless, sometimes not,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're more organized than all of the clowns on

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<v Speaker 2>your slack thread. But you know what, maybe you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to see thousands of tiny ladies having an all

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<v Speaker 2>night rave in your cereal pantry. But to quote common parlance,

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<v Speaker 2>can a bitch live? Let's learn about these little creatures,

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<v Speaker 2>and more importantly, let's suck some self help and organizational

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<v Speaker 2>strategies out of them. With a mirroracologist, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>word you only know about if you're a mirrorcologist. But first,

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<v Speaker 2>per usual, you know the drill. I say thank you

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<v Speaker 2>to people who let me keep the podcast going. All

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<v Speaker 2>the patrons at patreon dot com slash ologies who pay

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<v Speaker 2>a buck or more a month, All the folks who

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<v Speaker 2>put ologiesmerch dot com things on their bodies, including a

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<v Speaker 2>ton of very dare I say delicious fall designs like

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<v Speaker 2>vintage looking college sweatshirts and bird print mugs and train shirts,

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<v Speaker 2>brand new enamel pins for epidemiology. And as always, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to the folks who say, you know what this

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<v Speaker 2>pod is worth, mashing the star button on the iTunes

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<v Speaker 2>app and maybe leaving a review for dad word to

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<v Speaker 2>creep in the night when she feels lonesome, and then

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<v Speaker 2>read aloud to you to prove that I read them.

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<v Speaker 2>So this week's fresh review is in from someone calling

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<v Speaker 2>themselves don't know yet, They say, my only problem with

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast is that every episode makes me want to

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<v Speaker 2>go do all of the things, and I don't have

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<v Speaker 2>time in my day to do all of it, like

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<v Speaker 2>hike the railroad lines, scale a volcano, conserve the ocean,

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<v Speaker 2>redefined beauty standards. Ah I freaking love this podcast. Have

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<v Speaker 2>shared it with everyone I know. Currently writing this in

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<v Speaker 2>myology shirt. That is all. Don't know yet one thing

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<v Speaker 2>I know. You seem cool. Thanks for listening. Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for the reviews. Dad Ward loved it. Oh okay, Mermacology.

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<v Speaker 2>I said that all strung out like a line of

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<v Speaker 2>ants to do you like it? Good? Okay? So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>writing this before looking up the etymology. I'm just gonna

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<v Speaker 2>say I wrote this before I looked it up. I

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<v Speaker 2>took a wild guest that it was Greek for aunt.

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<v Speaker 2>Hold on, I google it, damn it. I'm right. But

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't coined until nineteen o six, when naturalist William

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<v Speaker 2>Morton was like, dang it out love ants. I need

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<v Speaker 2>a title that sounds like a wizard. So he took

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<v Speaker 2>Mrma and put Mycologists. There you go, Mirimacologists done. Now

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<v Speaker 2>this ologist I had followed on Twitter for months and

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<v Speaker 2>months and months and months, and our schedule is never

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<v Speaker 2>quite aligned to do an episode. And finally he was

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<v Speaker 2>back from the rainforest on a sunny Sunday afternoon, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was so excited to sit down and chat. So

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<v Speaker 2>he spends part of his time in the rainforest of

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<v Speaker 2>Costa Rica studying tropical ants, and is also a biology

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<v Speaker 2>professor at cal State University Domingus Hills, which has over

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<v Speaker 2>ten thousand students, seventy percent of whom are first generation

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<v Speaker 2>college students. I think that is awesome. Now. The result

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<v Speaker 2>of this is a whole nest of facts about invasive

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<v Speaker 2>species and colony communications and the bizarre genetics of queen ants,

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<v Speaker 2>and why army ants are your new squad, and what

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<v Speaker 2>it really really really feels like like for real, to

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<v Speaker 2>get stung by a bullet ant? Isn't that bad? And

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<v Speaker 2>what we can learn about our own strength and work

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<v Speaker 2>ethic from these lovely ladies and some dudes we call ants.

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<v Speaker 2>So get ready, make a bee line, make an ant

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<v Speaker 2>line for this chat with Mrmacologist Doctor Terry McGlenn. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>did I say it right?

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<v Speaker 3>Mycologists? Mrmacologist? I think well, like all these words, there's

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<v Speaker 3>no proper way of saying it. It's just the ones

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<v Speaker 3>that are socially acceptable among people who do so. You

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<v Speaker 3>can't say a word wrong. You just say a word

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<v Speaker 3>different than other people say.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, how long have you been

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<v Speaker 2>a Mrmacologist?

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<v Speaker 3>I started working on ant it's in nineteen ninety four

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<v Speaker 3>when I started grad school. So a minute, Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 3>that's a couple decades, right, level decades.

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<v Speaker 2>Of ants, not literally under your belt, in your pants,

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<v Speaker 2>but just in your life. So what was it about ants?

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<v Speaker 3>So I realized, Okay, this is the one question that

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<v Speaker 3>I knew you're going to ask, was why did you

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<v Speaker 3>work on? Answer? When I was in college, I started

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<v Speaker 3>out as a psychology philosophy double major, and then I

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<v Speaker 3>ended up being like pre med. Although I even interviewed

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<v Speaker 3>at med school, took the MCAT, the whole thing. I

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<v Speaker 3>have no idea why. But then I had this epiphany

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<v Speaker 3>when I was flying home for my first med school interview,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, this is not what I want to do.

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<v Speaker 3>These people are not my people. I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 3>do that for a living. And the whole time in

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<v Speaker 3>college I was taking all these courses about organismal biology, ecology, evolution, conservation.

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<v Speaker 3>I was auditing a class in insect biology, and I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, well, that's what I think is really cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, So before getting his PhD in Colorado, Terry majored

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<v Speaker 2>in biology for undergrad at Occidental College, Obama's alma mater

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<v Speaker 2>here in La and when he was thinking about grad school,

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<v Speaker 2>he was considering Europe, and he ended up interviewing with

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<v Speaker 2>a Swiss professor who studied ants. He even flew out

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<v Speaker 2>to interview, the first time he'd ever left the country. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>in the end, he didn't study at that lab, but

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<v Speaker 2>the experience of emailing back and forth with this Swiss

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<v Speaker 2>dude unveiled the tiny, wonderful world of meremacology.

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<v Speaker 3>And it seemed really, really, really cool. So after that

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<v Speaker 3>I decided, Wow, I want to work on the evolution

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<v Speaker 3>of social behavior in insects and answer you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>use social insects ants that have this colonial lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, let's unpack this really quick. Do you think having

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<v Speaker 2>an interest in social science and philosophy plus a little

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<v Speaker 2>biology interest like those were married perfectly in a social insect?

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe because I think my interest original, like you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the angsty teenager that just went to college. We're interested in, Well,

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<v Speaker 3>what makes us human? I was wondering, and I still wonder, like,

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<v Speaker 3>how is it that we are way we are? That

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<v Speaker 3>we you know, they think we feel, we love, we perceive,

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<v Speaker 3>but we are just mere meat, like we are just

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<v Speaker 3>somehow this tissue of our brain is what we are.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's just amazing to me that everything we

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<v Speaker 3>experience is that meat. And it still is amazing to me,

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<v Speaker 3>And I think I wanted to study that, and I

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<v Speaker 3>realized I don't think neurobiology was there or is there

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<v Speaker 3>yet to do.

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<v Speaker 2>That so quick as I at first I thought he

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<v Speaker 2>was saying mere me, as in like merely myself, But

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's saying mere meat like that we're meat,

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<v Speaker 2>which is so much more metal. What a metal way

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<v Speaker 2>to look at our delicate existence, I approve.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I think what fascinates me about ants is

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<v Speaker 3>it if you just look at it a different level

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<v Speaker 3>of organization, like what is a what is an organism?

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<v Speaker 3>What is a super organism? What is an ant? Colony?

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<v Speaker 3>How do you have something which is so well organized

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<v Speaker 3>out of small pieces that are really really dumb.

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<v Speaker 2>So many ants right now are sipping oat milk cortados

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<v Speaker 2>over the economist just being like wow, wow, really.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Like ants are really stupid, But colonies often do

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<v Speaker 3>complex tasks really well. I mean they have small little brains.

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<v Speaker 2>Walk me through a little bit of a colony. Because

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<v Speaker 2>we had an episode on melotology bees and so we've

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<v Speaker 2>covered some social insects. But what are the similarities between

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<v Speaker 2>bees and ants? Are they all mostly women? Are they

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<v Speaker 2>all like driven by pheromones or behavior or vision? Like

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on down there?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so all kinds of bees are complex, just like

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<v Speaker 3>all kinds of ants are complex. So the way that

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<v Speaker 3>honey bees organize the division of labor and so that

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<v Speaker 3>thing where you do one task, then you get promoted

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<v Speaker 3>to another task and you get promoted to another task,

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<v Speaker 3>that's the temporal polyethism.

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<v Speaker 2>So that means at different times you do different things,

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<v Speaker 2>like your chores as a kid may have gone from

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<v Speaker 2>feeding the cat to doing the laundry to driving your

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<v Speaker 2>siblings to school. Now, if your kids don't think you're

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<v Speaker 2>enough of a douche, tell them that it's imperative that

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<v Speaker 2>they engage in temporal polytheism to acquire their weekly stipend.

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<v Speaker 2>That way they can talk about you to a therapist

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<v Speaker 2>later in life.

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<v Speaker 3>However, some ants might be more inclined to perform some

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<v Speaker 3>tasks rather than others. Some ants are more generalists, some

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<v Speaker 3>are highly specialized.

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<v Speaker 2>WHOA, So there's like engineer ants and like architect ants

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<v Speaker 2>and ones that are like you know what, guys, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>like pretty good at finding seeds, so I'm just gonna do.

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<v Speaker 3>That sort of. But if you were to remove some

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<v Speaker 3>ants from the colony or add some fromants in the colony,

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<v Speaker 3>they might change their tasks. So some ants have broad

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<v Speaker 3>variety and body sizes. So, for instance, leafcutter ants, you

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<v Speaker 3>have these huge, huge ones with these big heads. They're

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<v Speaker 3>used for chopping stems and defending the colony, for like

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<v Speaker 3>when vertebrates attack, and you have these tiny, tiny little

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<v Speaker 3>ants that might tend the fungal garden and ride on

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<v Speaker 3>the leaves. And so the way that the polymorphic ants

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<v Speaker 3>divide labor and the way that monomorphic ants divide labor

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<v Speaker 3>is different.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little different. Yeah, Now what is your work

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<v Speaker 2>like day to day? Do you? Here's what I picture

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<v Speaker 2>tell me if I'm wrong. I picture that you work

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<v Speaker 2>in a lab and it's full of aquariums that are

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<v Speaker 2>just big riding balls of ants, and you also have

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<v Speaker 2>a clipboard in maybe a lab coat, and then sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>you're in the fields with a magnifying glass. Is any

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<v Speaker 2>of that correct? No, Okay, just checking.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think my average workday is probably not that

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<v Speaker 3>different from yours, which is like I'm sitting in front

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<v Speaker 3>of a laptop, okay, or I'm standing at my desk

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<v Speaker 3>or whatever. And so in the lab, I have a

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<v Speaker 3>bunch of ants, a ton of ants, but they're all dead.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Okay, what are they organized into like

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<v Speaker 2>a little tiny pins or are they just in shoe boxes?

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<v Speaker 3>So I have them in vials, and these vials would

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<v Speaker 3>be packaged in racks, and these racks are on shelves, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>and so so like if you know, visiting a museum,

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<v Speaker 3>then there's all these ants that are you know, mounted

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<v Speaker 3>in collections in pins. And so we when we mount

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<v Speaker 3>ants in museum collections, you glue them onto the tip

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<v Speaker 3>of a little point and put the pin through that

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<v Speaker 3>so you can look at them. Because if you put

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<v Speaker 3>the pin through the ant, then it messes them up.

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<v Speaker 2>So you yeah, that'd be like, that'd be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we just put a missile through alley, Like, yeah, it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't do that to an ant taddy. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, even the really really big chunky ants that you

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<v Speaker 3>could kind of do that too, by convention, we don't, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>I keep most of mine just sitting in alcohol from

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<v Speaker 3>the way I collected them, and most of the ants

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<v Speaker 3>that I've collected our whole colonies. Oh but these whole

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<v Speaker 3>colonies are really really tiny ones. They like the they

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<v Speaker 3>would easily fit inside a thimble, like they would occupy

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<v Speaker 3>like a two milli liter tube with tons of space

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<v Speaker 3>available there.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, a whole colony is like two hundred bros

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<v Speaker 2>or ladies.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh yeah, Like, well it depends. I mean, so some

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<v Speaker 3>colonies will just have like ten or twenty or thirty ants,

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<v Speaker 3>and then some might have hundreds. But even for these

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<v Speaker 3>tiny little ones that I work with on the leaf

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<v Speaker 3>litter of the rainforest floor, the ants themselves are so

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<v Speaker 3>tiny that a colony of a couple hundred ants will

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<v Speaker 3>still fit into a tiny little tube.

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<v Speaker 2>That's crazy because these.

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<v Speaker 3>Are unspeakably tiny.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you get involved with the tiniest ants? Were

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<v Speaker 2>you like, I have great vision, ergo, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Will work with the tiny ants now, Uh well, no,

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<v Speaker 3>as actually, and so now I just started worrying, like

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<v Speaker 3>the progressive lenses. Hey, So it's like, uh so when

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<v Speaker 3>I'm out in the field with students, like they're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>things that I literally cannot see.

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<v Speaker 2>Microscopic micro machine micro machines. The micro machine pocket place

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<v Speaker 2>that sold simply from gloob.

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<v Speaker 3>The smaller they are, the better they are.

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<v Speaker 2>So for his dissertation, Terry worked with Wasmania oropunk Tata.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I'm saying that right. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>just call them little fire ants because that's their name

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<v Speaker 2>unless you're from down Onda.

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<v Speaker 3>Although in Australia they call it the electric ant. And

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<v Speaker 3>these ants are like a couple millimeters long and so

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<v Speaker 3>really really tiny and if they sting you, it feels

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<v Speaker 3>like a little pink prick, and which is amazing something

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<v Speaker 3>that talk can actually small it can hurt you. I know,

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<v Speaker 3>most ants are really tiny. A lot of them are

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<v Speaker 3>just that small.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so little, like smaller than the ones that we

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<v Speaker 2>see trying to eat like a watermelon rind on the countertop.

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<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah, so here in La the ones that you have,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know if you get them in your place,

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<v Speaker 3>But the Argentine ants, people think of the that's a

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<v Speaker 3>common invasive species found in Mediterranean climates or whatnot, the

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<v Speaker 3>one that was taking over my kitchen last week.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, oh my god, what did you do, because

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<v Speaker 2>you're like a godfather to them? Did you commit mass anticide? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, actually I've wiped off the ones off the counter.

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<v Speaker 2>No, how dare you?

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<v Speaker 3>But then I just blocked the entrance off. So it's

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<v Speaker 3>not like I need to kill I wasn't trying to

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<v Speaker 3>kill them all off. I just kept them from getting in.

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<v Speaker 3>So like I have, like you know, the cock gun

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<v Speaker 3>ready to go, and I keep finding a new space

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<v Speaker 3>where they So it's like the evolutionary arms race is

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<v Speaker 3>them finding new ways to get in me caking that spot.

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<v Speaker 2>So now that is one thing you can do if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want to just like send in a poisoned

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<v Speaker 2>cake and be like kill off your whole colony. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a nice thing to do. So side note. As a

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<v Speaker 2>college sophomore, I lived in my first house with friends.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone was pretty goth and got along, but one of

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<v Speaker 2>my roommates was very very stony, blooney like a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>which was so endearing, and we had an ant infestation

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<v Speaker 2>and he told me all about these things called grants

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<v Speaker 2>ant sticks. They're these baits that you soak in hot

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<v Speaker 2>water and then you set out and he explained to

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<v Speaker 2>me like this.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, all right, okay, like if you were so hungry, right,

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<v Speaker 4>you found like twenty pizzas and you took them to

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<v Speaker 4>your friends and you were like, shit, you guys, pizzas

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<v Speaker 4>it's rules and everyone's like what was best? And then

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<v Speaker 4>but the pizza's like poisoned everyone. It's like so tight.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never forgotten this tutorial. And I'll be honest, I

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<v Speaker 2>have used these ant baits every time I've had an infestation,

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<v Speaker 2>and I felt so bad about it, like I'm the

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<v Speaker 2>villain in their action movie. But it does work for

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<v Speaker 2>a while.

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<v Speaker 4>Tight.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but it's also really really that's only going to

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<v Speaker 3>be a short term solution anyway, because even if you

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<v Speaker 3>get the toxic bait that they'll take and bring back,

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<v Speaker 3>which you know, could be effective, but the thing is

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<v Speaker 3>that's going to kill them all for a while. But

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<v Speaker 3>eventually there's going to be some that are just moving

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<v Speaker 3>back because you can't eliminate ants from the entire neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 3>And the way these it's essentially, you know, for the

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<v Speaker 3>most part, it's like one big whole colony, super colony

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<v Speaker 3>all throughout the LA area.

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<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, wait a minute, Okay, so these Argentinian ants

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<v Speaker 2>which are invasive, and they're the tiny, like not tiny,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're the small, little black ones that invade your kitchen. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I know that they kind of have outpaced harvester ants,

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<v Speaker 2>which are the bigger, kind of like Amboerrie color ones

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<v Speaker 2>that live in the hills, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, which people call red ants, yeah, harvest r ants.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but there it just kind of spans one big

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<v Speaker 2>colony under the city.

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<v Speaker 3>For the most part, or occupying the whole city.

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<v Speaker 2>This blew my mind. If your friend moves ten miles

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<v Speaker 2>away in LA, you will never see each other again,

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00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.639
<v Speaker 2>like burbank to who that is a forever goodbye, just

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<v Speaker 2>move on. But for ants, they're all essentially roommates. The

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<v Speaker 2>Argentine ants, the little ones that are invasive species but

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<v Speaker 2>have like pretty lax dietary tastes that lead almost anything.

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<v Speaker 2>They have a California colony that stretches five hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>sixty miles, which is nothing compared to one colony in

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<v Speaker 2>southern Europe thirty seven hundred miles, big billions of sisters.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's no wonder that the harvest or ants, with

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<v Speaker 2>their kind of picky diet of locally harvested seeds are

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<v Speaker 2>getting smoked by their Argentine relatives.

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<v Speaker 3>The last I know, there's one big super colony. So

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<v Speaker 3>if we were to get ants in one part of

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<v Speaker 3>LA and move them to another part of LA. They'll

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<v Speaker 3>be a hey, sister, how's it going, and accept them

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<v Speaker 3>just like the members of the same colony.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's so weird.

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<v Speaker 3>And so if you were to grab ants and put

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<v Speaker 3>them in a vial and then go like one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>miles two hundred miles, either they'll get along or they don't.

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<v Speaker 3>And if they don't, that means that you've hit a

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<v Speaker 3>new super colony. And you can tell where the border

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<v Speaker 3>between the super colonies is because there's like a line

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<v Speaker 3>of dead ants on the ground where they just.

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<v Speaker 2>Go to war no cool labunnas, Yeah, are you kidding me?

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<v Speaker 3>And they're just constantly fighting. But there's one large supercolony

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<v Speaker 3>that has taken over most of LA.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're all in the same family. So now even

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<v Speaker 2>if they're the same species, they'll have a battleground. They'll

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<v Speaker 2>be like a line of death.

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<v Speaker 3>Well yeah, so in general, for ants, their biggest enemy

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<v Speaker 3>is another colony of the same species.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's like humans, Yeah exactly? Is that like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of social animals, like they operate as such one

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<v Speaker 2>massive super organism that like their biggest predator really is

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<v Speaker 2>their own species.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I would say their biggest predator, but their biggest competitor, right,

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<v Speaker 3>because the thing is, I mean, so if they're you know,

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<v Speaker 3>because if the species has a niche and they're nesting

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<v Speaker 3>in a particular environment, and they're consuming the same kind

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<v Speaker 3>of food and they need the same environmental requirements, then

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<v Speaker 3>of course if there's another colony that's just like you,

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<v Speaker 3>that has the same environmental requirements, then they're your biggest competition.

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<v Speaker 2>How many species of ants are there?

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<v Speaker 3>I think described we might be up to twelve thousand dish,

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<v Speaker 3>I think the estimates and people say there's probably about

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<v Speaker 3>twenty thousand, but maybe about half of them aren't described,

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<v Speaker 3>Like we haven't put names to them yet.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you want to be a meremacologist, just know

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<v Speaker 2>that eight thousand species of ants are like notice me, please,

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00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm right here. They're begging you to be an ant scientist,

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<v Speaker 2>but they probably don't know the part about putting some

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<v Speaker 2>of their friends in jars. Even though it's to identify

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00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and save ant it seems like a difficult task for

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<v Speaker 2>ant lovers, Like I love you, I kill you, but

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<v Speaker 2>I love you I kill you. Do you have a

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<v Speaker 2>favorite species of ant? Be honest, it's hard.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I guess one of my favorites are the

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<v Speaker 3>bulldog ants in Australia, the marmicia. What I have to say, Well,

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<v Speaker 3>so they're really big and they have these bulging eyes,

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<v Speaker 3>but they're one of the few ants they almost act

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<v Speaker 3>like a vertebrate like most ants if you mess with

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<v Speaker 3>their calling, even like the big bullet ants that I

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<v Speaker 3>work with and whatnot, that they sort of just run

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<v Speaker 3>around and get upset and like, oh I might sting you,

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00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh look I'm fear or they'll freak out or run away.

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<v Speaker 3>But the bulldog ants they'll just send a few ants

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<v Speaker 3>up out of their nest and they'll look at you

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<v Speaker 3>and just open their mandibles and be like I see you.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like what it's like, they're just yeah, they just

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<v Speaker 3>stand up and it's like it's like an intimidation thing.

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<v Speaker 3>And also they have a really painful sting. So I

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00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:55.519
<v Speaker 3>mean they're actually, you know, honestly advertising how badass. They are.

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<v Speaker 2>So bulldog ants actually mad dog Now, Okay, explain to

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<v Speaker 2>me a little bit about the social behavior, because I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's one thing that people are just like mesmerized

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<v Speaker 2>by ants because they have this social behavior. They have

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<v Speaker 2>these tiny little brains. How do they do it? Is

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00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.920
<v Speaker 2>it all through pheromones? Like is it just innate? What's like,

390
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.039
<v Speaker 2>what is even happening here?

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00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:24.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I mean so clearly. Ants communicate with chemicals a lot.

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00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.039
<v Speaker 3>Chemicals are a huge, big part of their communication, I

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00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.160
<v Speaker 3>mean visual inputs for the most part. There are some

394
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:32.039
<v Speaker 3>blind ants, ones that live underground usually don't advise or

395
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.519
<v Speaker 3>don't use them or whatever. But we're still working out

396
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.640
<v Speaker 3>in detail, like which chemicals are used in what circumstances.

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00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.799
<v Speaker 3>So some will have a very discrete signal, like, for example,

398
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.160
<v Speaker 3>in a famous circumstance, it's like if you put this

399
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.319
<v Speaker 3>one chemical on an ant that commutes to other ants

400
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.200
<v Speaker 3>that they're dead, so they'll pick it up and drag

401
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:50.720
<v Speaker 3>them into the waste pile.

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00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Even if they're kicking and screaming, being like what's up, hey, assholes,

403
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm fully alive, and they're like, sorry, you smell like

404
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:57.240
<v Speaker 2>a corpse, so you're out.

405
00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's totally the story. Yeah, that EO. Wilson did,

406
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Like that is the comical thing. He would paint a

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00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:03.799
<v Speaker 3>live ant with a chemical that says that they're a

408
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:05.799
<v Speaker 3>dead ant, and then the ants would be dragged living

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<v Speaker 3>over to the dead pile.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so rough.

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<v Speaker 3>The concept is is that the way that colonies divide

412
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.319
<v Speaker 3>labor essentially that some ants will do some things, other

413
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.519
<v Speaker 3>ants will do other things. And it's and we we

414
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:21.039
<v Speaker 3>have we're not even close to understanding the details of

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00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:24.160
<v Speaker 3>how one species does things differently from another species. And

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00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:27.079
<v Speaker 3>why so, friends, if you take ants, a colony of ants,

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00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:29.200
<v Speaker 3>and you put them like in an area there dirt

418
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:30.960
<v Speaker 3>and let's see, and you give them a chance to

419
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:34.279
<v Speaker 3>excavate a nest like, so different species will have different

420
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.720
<v Speaker 3>nest architectures, and it's like, oh, you know, and so

421
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.279
<v Speaker 3>you can look at the structure of a nest or

422
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:40.799
<v Speaker 3>a structure of a nest entrance, or you could do

423
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.599
<v Speaker 3>a casting of a nest and be like, oh, I

424
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:45.759
<v Speaker 3>think I know what species it is, just on the

425
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:47.920
<v Speaker 3>shape of the nest that they dig. And so how

426
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.279
<v Speaker 3>is it that every that a species is socially organized

427
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.440
<v Speaker 3>to do something like that repetitively? I mean, there's still

428
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.039
<v Speaker 3>so much to learn. But in general, it's thought that

429
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.000
<v Speaker 3>the way that colonies organize complex behavior is based on

430
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.759
<v Speaker 3>interactions with one another. So if you interact with an individual,

431
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.799
<v Speaker 3>then that communicates different kinds of information depending on what

432
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:10.759
<v Speaker 3>chemicals you share, what body posture you have, you know,

433
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.960
<v Speaker 3>like in honey bees for example, what orientation your body is.

434
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.559
<v Speaker 3>So from all of these small little pieces of behavior,

435
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:25.279
<v Speaker 3>and then we have a complex colony emerge.

436
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of small simple computers can make a

437
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.599
<v Speaker 2>big complex computer. And yes, of course this is being

438
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.839
<v Speaker 2>studied by the military. Imagine a million tiny robot soldiers.

439
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:42.079
<v Speaker 2>Or maybe don't do you get optimistic about solving future

440
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:46.759
<v Speaker 2>problems with maybe some themes or things we've learned from

441
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>ant behavior? Or are you like, oh shit, we're going

442
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:51.240
<v Speaker 2>to learn from ants and we're all going to kill

443
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:51.640
<v Speaker 2>each other.

444
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.359
<v Speaker 3>I'm terrified at the concept that we could use you know, learning,

445
00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.000
<v Speaker 3>education and technology to do bad things regardless, I think

446
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.920
<v Speaker 3>I think there's if we study how social insects work,

447
00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:07.200
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of power and understanding how the world works.

448
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.200
<v Speaker 3>And so I think by studying insects then we can

449
00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.880
<v Speaker 3>tap into lots of new knowledge and then it's up

450
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 3>to us to use that wisely.

451
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Now, can you give me some hot goss? Can you

452
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:21.960
<v Speaker 2>like spill the tea on some of ants crazy behaviors,

453
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.640
<v Speaker 2>like what kind of Real Housewives shit happens in those colonies. Also,

454
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 2>are they mostly ladies?

455
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Oh yeah, so yeah, so we mentioned before, So

456
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.720
<v Speaker 3>just like in almost all social insects except for social

457
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:36.640
<v Speaker 3>cockroaches before really known as termites.

458
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh wait what Yeah yeah, termites are now called social cockroaches.

459
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:41.839
<v Speaker 2>When did that happen?

460
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, it happened like ten years ago, but now people

461
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.799
<v Speaker 3>are getting their heads around this.

462
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.400
<v Speaker 2>So another detail to get your head around. I'll say

463
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:52.440
<v Speaker 2>this fast because A it's unrelated to ants, and B

464
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 2>it's disgusting. So termites eat wood, and cockroaches are coprophages,

465
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.079
<v Speaker 2>which means they're faces eaters, and scientists think that being

466
00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:05.799
<v Speaker 2>friendly and eating each other's snacky waist could have set

467
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 2>the stage for good gut biomes that are able to

468
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.759
<v Speaker 2>digest wood. So that's how cockroach has turned to determine.

469
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, I'm sorry. Let's get back to ants, specifically

470
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:21.839
<v Speaker 2>the dames, ants and bees. We're looking at a bunch

471
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:22.359
<v Speaker 2>of ladies.

472
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, So all workers are female, and so in

473
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.200
<v Speaker 3>pretty much almost all colonies, if you're seeing an ant

474
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.920
<v Speaker 3>that has no wings, then it's going to be a

475
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 3>female worker.

476
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Do boy ants have wings?

477
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so almost almost all the time, the boy ants

478
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.559
<v Speaker 3>will have wings, and their job is to have sex

479
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.720
<v Speaker 3>and then die, I mean, and that's it.

480
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.440
<v Speaker 2>So boy aunt to do list is like, be born,

481
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.400
<v Speaker 2>have wings, have a nuptial flight, mate, and then die.

482
00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>You're done and ps. The male ants, who are not

483
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>called uncles but rather and the queens, will usually mate

484
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.920
<v Speaker 2>when it's humid out or after it rains, so that

485
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:09.400
<v Speaker 2>she can get laid and then rip off her own

486
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:13.759
<v Speaker 2>wings casually and then pump her babies into a hole

487
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>in the earth, thus starting one big, happy, kind of

488
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:21.279
<v Speaker 2>overworked family. And now remember the family that sniffs and

489
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 2>rubs their bodily secretions on each other together stays together.

490
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.680
<v Speaker 2>So what kind of behaviors? What kind of actions and

491
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.559
<v Speaker 2>behaviors do they have in terms of communicating with each other?

492
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.359
<v Speaker 3>They meaning the ants the ants. Yeah, so there's I

493
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.759
<v Speaker 3>mean some sometimes they'll actually perform physical movements on one

494
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 3>another communicate things, but it's pretty much it's all chemical

495
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:45.200
<v Speaker 3>for the most part.

496
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Or do they say things like hey, there's a fruit

497
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.839
<v Speaker 2>loop over there, or hey, watch out, there's a there's

498
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>a weird ant eater lurching about, Like what kind of it?

499
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:54.799
<v Speaker 2>What are they chatting about?

500
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:57.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, so there's big categories that you can

501
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:01.480
<v Speaker 3>put pheromones into. And so then there's recruitment pheromones, which

502
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:03.079
<v Speaker 3>is like, hey, the food's over there, and then there's

503
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 3>trail pheromones saying, well, this is the trail. And so

504
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.279
<v Speaker 3>there are different kinds of trail pheromones, Like some are

505
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 3>long term trail pheromones that will last for a long time,

506
00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:13.319
<v Speaker 3>saying this is our big long term trail, or a couple.

507
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.400
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes you'll have trail pheromones that evaporate really quickly that

508
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:17.759
<v Speaker 3>are short term trail pheromones.

509
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:22.359
<v Speaker 2>WHOA, So they know is this part in this question?

510
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 2>Is it just coming out of their butts? Where is

511
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:24.799
<v Speaker 2>it coming from?

512
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.839
<v Speaker 3>Uh? So they have different glands and different parts of

513
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.960
<v Speaker 3>their bodies, okay, and so some of the glands, like

514
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.039
<v Speaker 3>for instance, the alarm pheromones are in the mandibles and

515
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:35.680
<v Speaker 3>mandibular glands, and so once in a long while we're

516
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.119
<v Speaker 3>still discovering new glands. But who you know, But there's

517
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.720
<v Speaker 3>a few key glands you know, in the head or

518
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:44.359
<v Speaker 3>in the middle part of the butt that.

519
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they're like, nah, it's just a short term trail.

520
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.319
<v Speaker 2>We're not gonna hang here for too long. So they're

521
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>just gonna like squirt some stuff out of their their

522
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:56.039
<v Speaker 2>thorax and then that evaporates. Then then wow, the alarm

523
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.039
<v Speaker 2>ones near their mandibles is really interesting, yeah.

524
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.680
<v Speaker 3>Which means like attack what's near there, you know. But

525
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:03.160
<v Speaker 3>there's also just like for instance, with like we were

526
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 3>talking about with the r G gin ants and their

527
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.599
<v Speaker 3>super colonies. So one of the things that we find

528
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 3>is the reason the ants will accept or reject someone

529
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.400
<v Speaker 3>into the colony the pheromones. So the ants have to

530
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 3>really physically rub up against one another to smell these

531
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.279
<v Speaker 3>like but once you touch then you would come in

532
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.160
<v Speaker 3>contact with this pheromone, which is like a long chain

533
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.960
<v Speaker 3>carbon which is not volatile, and so if that matches

534
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.720
<v Speaker 3>their own, then they recognize them as colony mates. But

535
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:31.200
<v Speaker 3>if those compounds are different enough, then they recognize them

536
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 3>as different. So if you were to give ants the

537
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.759
<v Speaker 3>same coat them with these chemicals, then they'll recognize one

538
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:39.839
<v Speaker 3>another's colony mates.

539
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. So you can almost trick them into

540
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.319
<v Speaker 2>being like no, no, no, no, you guys are cool because you

541
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 2>just coated them with the same kind of perfume.

542
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, to some extent. Yeah, But also if you were

543
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:50.759
<v Speaker 3>to take a colony and then split it apart and

544
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:53.640
<v Speaker 3>give them different kinds of food that have different kinds

545
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 3>of chemicals. Then they'll stop getting along with one another.

546
00:27:56.680 --> 00:27:59.279
<v Speaker 2>So side note, I had a boyfriend years ago who

547
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:05.799
<v Speaker 2>ate onel epically pungent garlic soup one fateful day, and

548
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.279
<v Speaker 2>I thought, maybe we're going to break up. I thought

549
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.480
<v Speaker 2>that was the end I considered it. I just did

550
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:13.799
<v Speaker 2>not know how to cope politely. I mean, how do

551
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>you approach invasive species because clearly you marvel at ants.

552
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 2>Are you like, ah, I'm I'm pissed off at you

553
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:28.720
<v Speaker 2>guys because you are maybe like outpacing native species. Or

554
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 2>do you just say, like, let nature be nature.

555
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.759
<v Speaker 3>So I studied invasive species for my dissertation. I'm gotten

556
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:36.960
<v Speaker 3>past that. I'm doing other things now. But I mean,

557
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 3>and so, I mean, it's a problem. It's a problem

558
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.680
<v Speaker 3>because especially in ants, it seems for at least you know,

559
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:46.720
<v Speaker 3>fifty two hundred years after they arrive, they really reduce

560
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:49.200
<v Speaker 3>the abundance of other native ants. But I mean also

561
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 3>just pragmatically speaking, it's an economic problem because most of

562
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 3>these invasive species cause problems that disrupt trade or could

563
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.279
<v Speaker 3>be human health problems, or cause problems for endangered species

564
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.240
<v Speaker 3>with red imported fire ants. They'll like eat ground nesting birds.

565
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.039
<v Speaker 2>What Yeah, they'll eat a bird.

566
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:08.720
<v Speaker 3>Like the little baby birds. Think they have trouble getting

567
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 3>it to the eggs, but as soon as they hatch

568
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:13.279
<v Speaker 3>and they'll swarm over the nest. Oh my god, so

569
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.079
<v Speaker 3>like so engage. So in ground nesting birds in the

570
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:20.200
<v Speaker 3>southeastern US are really at risk because of you know,

571
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:21.359
<v Speaker 3>this invasive species.

572
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Why do some ants want to eat an apple core?

573
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:25.160
<v Speaker 2>And others are like.

574
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.880
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean so species are different, right, and so

575
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.680
<v Speaker 3>I mean so all different kinds of bands have all

576
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.079
<v Speaker 3>different kinds of diet. But I mean some ants primarily

577
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:33.960
<v Speaker 3>eat other ants, like army ants.

578
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Army ants eat other ants.

579
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Speaker 3>So most army ant species are specialists on other social insects,

580
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:44.279
<v Speaker 3>so other ant colonies and like wasp colonies and termites

581
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.799
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, oh I didn't know that.

582
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah what are I'm okay? Because there are some there

583
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>are some species of ants that have reputations fire ants,

584
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 2>army ants, bullet ants. What is it about those species

585
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:03.960
<v Speaker 2>that are just like more ferocious or more threatening to people?

586
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.960
<v Speaker 2>And should we be marveling at that instead of being like, hey, ants,

587
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:09.759
<v Speaker 2>knock it off.

588
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I think we totally should be marblized. Yeah, ants

589
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:16.839
<v Speaker 3>are they amazing? Yeah? Well, armiants aren't really a threat.

590
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:19.480
<v Speaker 3>I guess if you were to put a baby in

591
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:26.000
<v Speaker 3>a bassinet and let it sit there as Armiance went through,

592
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.000
<v Speaker 3>well then that probably would not be good news because

593
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.599
<v Speaker 3>it would get stung a lot, right, But otherwise, like,

594
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:33.599
<v Speaker 3>armiants are great. If they come through your house, you

595
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.039
<v Speaker 3>step outside for a couple hours, you come back and

596
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:37.599
<v Speaker 3>they've cleaned out all the insect pests?

597
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Have they really? They've just marched through and been like

598
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:42.759
<v Speaker 2>I ate a cockroach, I ate them off?

599
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, seriously, And so it's normal. So I think there's

600
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.400
<v Speaker 3>this notion that they're incredibly efficient. But got I've looked

601
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.079
<v Speaker 3>through places where Armiance had just roam through. There's still

602
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.000
<v Speaker 3>bugs in the litter. They didn't get everybody, They.

603
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.799
<v Speaker 2>Get everything a little sloppy. And now what about bullet

604
00:30:57.799 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 2>ants and fire ants? Why are they called those things?

605
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:03.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, bullet ants just to call bullet ants because it

606
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.079
<v Speaker 3>really really hurts when they sting you.

607
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Does it hurt so bad?

608
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:08.799
<v Speaker 3>Why does it hurt so bad? Like it could be

609
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.480
<v Speaker 3>like approximate answer, which is like, well, it's because the

610
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.200
<v Speaker 3>structure of this pona a toxin, and you know, the

611
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.880
<v Speaker 3>alpha ponter atoxin and beta ponter a toxin causes a

612
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.319
<v Speaker 3>lot of pain, right right, But the real question is

613
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:21.279
<v Speaker 3>why is it they evolved a toxin which is so

614
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.599
<v Speaker 3>much more painful than everyone else. So my pet concept

615
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.240
<v Speaker 3>behind that is, well, bullet ants are huge, and they

616
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.160
<v Speaker 3>also have pretty big colonies. Considering their size, the colonies

617
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.039
<v Speaker 3>can have a few thousand individuals when they get to

618
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.640
<v Speaker 3>be big, and so the larvae and the pupy are

619
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.319
<v Speaker 3>really big and chunky. It's like a really really good meal,

620
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.359
<v Speaker 3>like I can imagine like a kowati or a peckery

621
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>or someone digging up the ground and would love eating

622
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.359
<v Speaker 3>all of those.

623
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.920
<v Speaker 2>This just in a kowati is a very cute, long

624
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.160
<v Speaker 2>faced raccoon looking idiot, and a peckery appears to be

625
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:57.839
<v Speaker 2>a spindle legged forest piggy with frothy Texas hair, and

626
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:01.680
<v Speaker 2>they would probably love to eat soft, squishy bullet ant

627
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.920
<v Speaker 2>babies like Swedish fish, you know.

628
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:10.839
<v Speaker 3>And so because they offer such a massive nutritional reward

629
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.559
<v Speaker 3>to someone who attacks the colony, they probably have to

630
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:16.960
<v Speaker 3>deter vertebrates really well. And so no vertebrate in its

631
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 3>right mind is going to mess with with a bullet

632
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.799
<v Speaker 3>ant colony. And so their colonies you could probably like

633
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.440
<v Speaker 3>dig and access them within several seconds if you had

634
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.519
<v Speaker 3>like a shovel or good digging claws, But you just

635
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.640
<v Speaker 3>be crazy too because they stink so badly, whereas so

636
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.200
<v Speaker 3>many other ants. If they have a lot of nutritious

637
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.799
<v Speaker 3>prey available to them, then they're probably deep in a

638
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 3>piece of wood. Like carpenter ants get to be almost

639
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.279
<v Speaker 3>as big as bullet ants, but they don't even have

640
00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:46.880
<v Speaker 3>a sting and they bite you. But it's not the

641
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:48.799
<v Speaker 3>worst thing in the world. It's just that. But they're

642
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:51.440
<v Speaker 3>nesting in wood. You're not going to rip open like

643
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.920
<v Speaker 3>a whole, you know, tree to eat a carpenter at colony.

644
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.200
<v Speaker 3>So bullet ant colonies are really vulnerable if they're just

645
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.920
<v Speaker 3>in soil at the base of a tree.

646
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.519
<v Speaker 2>That's a great answer. So the lesson is hide your

647
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:08.039
<v Speaker 2>shit or be prepared to defend it. Now, how do

648
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:11.839
<v Speaker 2>you feel when you see people say in like science

649
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.519
<v Speaker 2>programs or YouTube that are like I put my hands

650
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.119
<v Speaker 2>in a fire ant colony or I let a bullet

651
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.839
<v Speaker 2>ants sting me to see how it would feel are

652
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.279
<v Speaker 2>you just like shaking your damn head on the side.

653
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, I think with a fire ans, that's

654
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.480
<v Speaker 3>just I don't know, that's just kind of dumb, I think.

655
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, gosh, it's gonna hurt. I mean, you've seen

656
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:31.839
<v Speaker 3>I mean people with fire ants, the fire and seeing

657
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 3>you get all these welts and you have the blisters

658
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.359
<v Speaker 3>and it's horrible, it's painful, and so you know what's

659
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:39.839
<v Speaker 3>going to happen. But I think with bullet ants, what

660
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:43.440
<v Speaker 3>happens is you get stung and it looks like nothing. Initially,

661
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.079
<v Speaker 3>you might swell up or whatever, but then you see

662
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.759
<v Speaker 3>people reacting in extraordinary pain, and it's a matter of curiosity, right.

663
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:53.559
<v Speaker 3>I've had several students intentionally get themselves stung by bullet

664
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.480
<v Speaker 3>ants because they wanted to know what it felt.

665
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:59.519
<v Speaker 2>Like and and and it really hurts. What did they

666
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 2>do of reactions happened.

667
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, they just they just screamed their heads off and

668
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:10.679
<v Speaker 3>then use all kinds of cursing you no more damn rift.

669
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:14.199
<v Speaker 3>So I've worked with bullet ants, I published a few

670
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:16.519
<v Speaker 3>papers on them, and I've only been stung by them once,

671
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:18.719
<v Speaker 3>and that was in the lab when I was being dumb,

672
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.039
<v Speaker 3>and so it's possible to work with them and not

673
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.119
<v Speaker 3>get stung if you just treat them with respect and

674
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 3>understand how they behave.

675
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, Hello, what happened? What happened? Tell me everything? You

676
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.639
<v Speaker 2>were in the lab you got stung with by a

677
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:34.519
<v Speaker 2>bullet ant? Where? How How?

678
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:36.440
<v Speaker 3>So I was in the lab and I needed to

679
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.800
<v Speaker 3>weigh this ant because I was putting we're doing experiments

680
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:44.480
<v Speaker 3>with microbes in their guts, and so to weigh the ant,

681
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:48.000
<v Speaker 3>I needed to put it in a container and weigh

682
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:49.880
<v Speaker 3>the ant in the container then used to track the

683
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.599
<v Speaker 3>weight of the container. But I realized that when I

684
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.079
<v Speaker 3>weighed the cup, it didn't have a lid on it,

685
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:56.559
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, oh, I need to weigh a

686
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:58.639
<v Speaker 3>cup with the lid. But I wasn't thinking that that

687
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.679
<v Speaker 3>cup that had the lid on it was the one

688
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 3>that had the ant that I was weighing in it.

689
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, I just wasn't thinking. And so the moment

690
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 3>I got the lid.

691
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Off, PS, if you haven't already, now would be a

692
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 2>good time to cover the ears of your children or

693
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.159
<v Speaker 2>my mom. You know.

694
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:18.880
<v Speaker 3>It just got me right on the tip of my finger,

695
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:24.760
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, fuck, fuck fu fuck, And I

696
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.960
<v Speaker 3>flung the ant like somewhere in the balance room and

697
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 3>it was roaming around. Meanwhile, so I have like like this,

698
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, sophomore in college. I'm showing her how to

699
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:34.239
<v Speaker 3>do this experiment for the rest of the summer that

700
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.320
<v Speaker 3>she sees this. It was like, oh my god, it

701
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:39.719
<v Speaker 3>was so bad. It was really really bad.

702
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever find the flung ant? Oh?

703
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:43.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, they're huge. How do you

704
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:44.360
<v Speaker 3>not find it?

705
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:48.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay? I looked these things up and they are meaty

706
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:52.360
<v Speaker 2>as hell. They're about as big as a wingless wasp,

707
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:56.480
<v Speaker 2>but with a sting some experts say is thirty times

708
00:35:56.719 --> 00:36:01.079
<v Speaker 2>more painful than a bee's worse than chi birth and

709
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.639
<v Speaker 2>being burned. Ps. How do we know that? Well? One

710
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Cornell University study in the nineteen forties was trying to

711
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 2>measure comparative pains using something that's still called a Dolora meter. Dolar,

712
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>by the way, is just straight up and noun meaning

713
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.519
<v Speaker 2>great sorrow or distress. So they use this dolar meter

714
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:26.639
<v Speaker 2>and during childbirth. The team of scientists James D. Hardy,

715
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Harold G. Wolf, and Helen Goodill, he did, I mean,

716
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>I guess burned women to ask which feels worse, and

717
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.239
<v Speaker 2>the answer must have been a consistent fuck off enough

718
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:43.280
<v Speaker 2>that they stopped using this method. Now, for Terry, who

719
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.639
<v Speaker 2>has a child but no experience shoving one out of

720
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 2>an orifice, how would he describe it?

721
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

722
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:50.920
<v Speaker 2>My god, what did it feel like?

723
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.880
<v Speaker 3>So, the way I explain it, I've seen multiple people

724
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.760
<v Speaker 3>get stung, right, and so or at least see the

725
00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:00.199
<v Speaker 3>after effects, and so it affects different people differently. Not

726
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.360
<v Speaker 3>to say that everyone else will have this response, but

727
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.599
<v Speaker 3>for me, it was like if you put your finger

728
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:06.679
<v Speaker 3>on a countertop and I were to give you a

729
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.119
<v Speaker 3>hammer and ask you hit it as hard as you can.

730
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:13.880
<v Speaker 3>That's what it felt like. Yeah, how long does it last? Well?

731
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.599
<v Speaker 3>The one common name that people have for them is

732
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:19.599
<v Speaker 3>where Migo of Antiquatro, the twenty four hour ant So

733
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.519
<v Speaker 3>mine did not last twenty four hours, but it really hurt. So,

734
00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:25.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean, so I took a full dose of ibuprofen

735
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 3>and benadreuil because my hand started to get really puffy,

736
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.920
<v Speaker 3>and so it was throbbing enough where I just couldn't

737
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:33.480
<v Speaker 3>focus on anything. So it was like my day was

738
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 3>kind of done. Yeah yeah, and then like then I

739
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 3>had lost muscular strength in the hand, like I couldn't

740
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 3>hold a coffee cup in this hand, like like I

741
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 3>just couldn't squeeze enough to hold it. It was weird.

742
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 3>And then that evening, like the whole hand was like numb,

743
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.079
<v Speaker 3>like I would poke it and I couldn't feel it.

744
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Here's a question. If you could do

745
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:57.519
<v Speaker 2>your whole life over and you had a chance to

746
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.800
<v Speaker 2>not have that happened to you, would you erase that

747
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.079
<v Speaker 2>from your experience or are you in some way glad

748
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:05.159
<v Speaker 2>that you know what it's like.

749
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 3>I guess well enough people have asked me what it

750
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:08.360
<v Speaker 3>feels like?

751
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:10.920
<v Speaker 2>What do you feel like?

752
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:14.280
<v Speaker 3>That is better to have that experience than to be

753
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:16.679
<v Speaker 3>like that smug dude who's like, well, I'm so careful

754
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:18.360
<v Speaker 3>I never get stuck, right.

755
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:21.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I have heard also, like Phil Torres, the

756
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 2>lepidopterologist that I interviewed about butterflies. He says that entomologists

757
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>have a rite of passage of like everyone kind of

758
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 2>wants to get a bot fly larva stuck in them.

759
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Do ant research say like do ant researchers say, like,

760
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:34.360
<v Speaker 2>I kind of want to see what this is like?

761
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 3>You know, I don't think it's like no, I think

762
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:40.599
<v Speaker 3>among the ant people I know, it's the more at

763
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:42.320
<v Speaker 3>least ant men.

764
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 4>I know.

765
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 3>They would be more into I think they a butot

766
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.519
<v Speaker 3>fly would still be a bigger rite of passage than like.

767
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, what's the craziest thing that you've seen

768
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.800
<v Speaker 2>in the field or the craziest behavior you've ever witnessed?

769
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.199
<v Speaker 3>Wow, I would say probably the coolest, coolest thing I've

770
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.119
<v Speaker 3>seen are kidnapper ants.

771
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:08.880
<v Speaker 2>What the hell?

772
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:13.000
<v Speaker 3>So people used to call the slave making ants, but

773
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that really describes their behavior well. And

774
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.320
<v Speaker 3>so what kidnapper ants are and those and this actually

775
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:25.199
<v Speaker 3>I just I've seen in Arizona. So they are colonies

776
00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:32.000
<v Speaker 3>that go on seasonal raids where they find the colonies

777
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.880
<v Speaker 3>of other ants and steal their brood and bring them

778
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.239
<v Speaker 3>back to their own nest and raise them up. And

779
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:41.039
<v Speaker 3>then those ants live there. So they're like, so they're

780
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:45.079
<v Speaker 3>kidnapping baby ants from other colony and then those ants.

781
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:47.360
<v Speaker 3>So if you were to look at a kidnapper ant colony,

782
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:50.679
<v Speaker 3>there's two kinds of workers. There's the kidnapper ants themselves,

783
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.760
<v Speaker 3>which are like big and bright orange, and then the

784
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Speaker 3>ants that they stole who are working alongside them thinking

785
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 3>they belong there, but they were actually kidnapped.

786
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Is that a matter of pheromones? Do they rub their

787
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.199
<v Speaker 2>pheromone on it where they're like, you think you're you

788
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.360
<v Speaker 2>can't tell that we are not your real family?

789
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:08.800
<v Speaker 3>Uh? Yeah, so, I mean, so the thing is if

790
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:12.559
<v Speaker 3>you're raised in that environment, then you'll basically be having

791
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.159
<v Speaker 3>the odors that come from that environment. And so we

792
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.400
<v Speaker 3>know that kidnapper ants will use pheromones to disrupt the

793
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 3>communication of the colonies. So these aunts that get raided

794
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:24.679
<v Speaker 3>by kidnapper ants, they kind of know it's coming. I mean,

795
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.320
<v Speaker 3>it's evolved over like you know, probably millions of years

796
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 3>and so and so and so they've evolved some kind

797
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 3>of defense, but obviously the defences aren't quite good enough.

798
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.239
<v Speaker 2>So does that mean that the kidnapper aunt queen is

799
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:38.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a cult leader? She like a David

800
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:43.239
<v Speaker 2>koresh of like Jonestown, Like she's like, you belong here

801
00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:44.559
<v Speaker 2>and you love it, keep working.

802
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 3>You totally can imagine that.

803
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And now what are aunt queens like? I should

804
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:50.400
<v Speaker 2>have asked this earlier, but what are aunt queens like?

805
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Are they just pumping out babies? All the time, Like

806
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.280
<v Speaker 2>do they get killed and eaten by someone when they're

807
00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:56.760
<v Speaker 2>ready to go? Yeah?

808
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:01.599
<v Speaker 3>So so most folks, the popular conception is that queen's

809
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.760
<v Speaker 3>run the colony for the most part, Like queens are

810
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 3>not in charge. It's the workers that are running the colony.

811
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.199
<v Speaker 3>And so the queen, if anything, is the captive of

812
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:14.719
<v Speaker 3>the ants, because the ants, because the queen is doing

813
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:16.960
<v Speaker 3>the reproductive labor for the colony and the ants are

814
00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.519
<v Speaker 3>doing all the other labor. Oh and so and if

815
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.639
<v Speaker 3>a queen has only made it once, then because of

816
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:29.079
<v Speaker 3>bizarre genetics that we could get into, the workers are

817
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:33.119
<v Speaker 3>more related to the queen, to their sisters, the queen's daughter,

818
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.079
<v Speaker 3>then the queen is to her own daughters.

819
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Weird, So you.

820
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.639
<v Speaker 3>Could argue that the queen is actually doing the reproductive work,

821
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:44.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, for her daughters who are in the colony.

822
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Ooh, that's some handmade stale yeah right there, Yeah totally.

823
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:51.280
<v Speaker 2>And what does your research right now deal with? Like

824
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:52.880
<v Speaker 2>what's your bread and butter research?

825
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:54.880
<v Speaker 3>So the way a friend of mine described what I

826
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:57.599
<v Speaker 3>what I do. He's like, I really like when you

827
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:01.519
<v Speaker 3>do that experimental natural history, And I'm like, oh, that's

828
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:05.119
<v Speaker 3>a good word for it. Oh, I know. So what

829
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.519
<v Speaker 3>I do is I find, you know, there's so many curious,

830
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:09.920
<v Speaker 3>weird phenomena that we don't understand out there, and I'm like,

831
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:10.960
<v Speaker 3>you know, I think I'm going to try to do

832
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.199
<v Speaker 3>experiments to try to figure out what's going on. And

833
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.920
<v Speaker 3>so I have a few different things I'm working on.

834
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.519
<v Speaker 3>So one thing is I'm understanding and this is what

835
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.400
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people are working on this for good reason.

836
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:26.519
<v Speaker 3>The thermal biology evans and how they adapt are adapting

837
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:30.559
<v Speaker 3>to hotter temperatures. And so the way I've been looking

838
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:34.079
<v Speaker 3>at this is looking at variation within a colony and

839
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.480
<v Speaker 3>how that might evolve, and how colonies use behavioral flexibility

840
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:40.679
<v Speaker 3>to respond to changing temperatures. So a lot of people

841
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.920
<v Speaker 3>are looking at differences among species to think how about

842
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.039
<v Speaker 3>how things will change, But I think actually ant colonies

843
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.719
<v Speaker 3>might evolve to behaviorally adapt to higher temperatures.

844
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, that's crazy. Do you think that they'll store

845
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 2>more water or seek higher ground or lower ground.

846
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Or yeah, others they might nest deeper, they might vorge

847
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:01.360
<v Speaker 3>at different times of day, or nest in deeper leaf litter.

848
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.960
<v Speaker 3>But it looks like that they're more adaptable than people thought,

849
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:05.679
<v Speaker 3>I mean, so that's one thing I'm working on. There's

850
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.960
<v Speaker 3>this other group at vants that I'm working on that

851
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:13.760
<v Speaker 3>move their nests all the time. Well many ants. People

852
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:15.320
<v Speaker 3>think of ants as like, here's a hole in the

853
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:18.719
<v Speaker 3>ground where they add colony lives. But it turns out

854
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.960
<v Speaker 3>that the majority of species move their nests on a

855
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:25.039
<v Speaker 3>regular basis, like every few weeks, every few months, once

856
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 3>a year and people and so I've been working to

857
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 3>show people that this is actually kind of the way

858
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:33.519
<v Speaker 3>the ants are. They're not like miniature plants rooted in

859
00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:36.079
<v Speaker 3>the ground, but just like our invasive argent plants move

860
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:38.559
<v Speaker 3>all over the city. Even if you go don't look

861
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:40.920
<v Speaker 3>at invasive species, if you're just looking at natural areas,

862
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:43.559
<v Speaker 3>ants moving their nests is a pretty common thing. And

863
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:45.199
<v Speaker 3>so I've been trying to figure out how and why

864
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:46.599
<v Speaker 3>that happens in a couple species.

865
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Why does it happen? Do you think?

866
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 3>Well, in different it's very different for depending upon the

867
00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.239
<v Speaker 3>species are looking at about what the advantage is. Like,

868
00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:57.960
<v Speaker 3>there's some that do it because they're trying to find

869
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.719
<v Speaker 3>a sunnier patch, and so if the structure the forest changes,

870
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.079
<v Speaker 3>so they end up in a place that's shadier. They

871
00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:04.679
<v Speaker 3>need to move to a place that's more sonny, Oh

872
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:08.400
<v Speaker 3>my god, they do this get at all? Yeah, totally.

873
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Now, how do you feel when you see people pouring

874
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:15.880
<v Speaker 2>like molten aluminum into an ant colony? So side note

875
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 2>for a visual just imagine like a small, squat shiny

876
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.239
<v Speaker 2>metal Christmas tree that a robot might put up, or

877
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:28.639
<v Speaker 2>shimmering silver coral, or maybe a bush doctor Seuss would

878
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:31.639
<v Speaker 2>dream up for the future. Now, if you google Ant

879
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 2>Hill art, you can see the products and some art

880
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:39.199
<v Speaker 2>displays and also the process, and in so doing you

881
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:42.920
<v Speaker 2>will again realize that we are the villains in an

882
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:46.719
<v Speaker 2>ant's action film for sure, because I know that they

883
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.480
<v Speaker 2>can then dig it up and it's this beautiful branching structure.

884
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.760
<v Speaker 3>But I'm also like, dude, ants, I just say it

885
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.320
<v Speaker 3>as like a gorgeous work of art. I mean, so

886
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.480
<v Speaker 3>it's like I estimated on the back of an envelope

887
00:44:57.519 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 3>the number of ants that I killed, and it was

888
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.400
<v Speaker 3>like on the low end, very low end, it's like

889
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.519
<v Speaker 3>a quarter million and a half million. So I you know,

890
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 3>so maybe there's a little wanted posters of me inside

891
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 3>the ant colonies, you know, unlike a lot of other

892
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:14.519
<v Speaker 3>people who study insects. I actually work really hard to

893
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:19.480
<v Speaker 3>avoid collecting, and I think biological collections are very important

894
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:22.199
<v Speaker 3>and we should continue to build and maintain collections, but

895
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:25.119
<v Speaker 3>I think we need to think hard about the ethics

896
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:26.840
<v Speaker 3>of how we do this. There's a lot of data

897
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.880
<v Speaker 3>to be acquired from those too. I know people are

898
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.119
<v Speaker 3>now doing that as an art piece, but also a

899
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.679
<v Speaker 3>lot of what we've learned about nest architecture has done

900
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:36.599
<v Speaker 3>has come from that kind of casting. And so the

901
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:40.079
<v Speaker 3>guy who pioneered this technique, Walter Shinkel, you know, has

902
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.119
<v Speaker 3>done all this amazing work on the architecture of nest colonies.

903
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.199
<v Speaker 3>Before doing the metal casting, people would cast colonies with

904
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:49.239
<v Speaker 3>dental plaster. Oh, because you need something that goes down

905
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.480
<v Speaker 3>the fine little holes to ant scrawl through if you're

906
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:53.760
<v Speaker 3>going to cast the whole colony, and so dental plaster

907
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:57.199
<v Speaker 3>is fine enough that you can penetrate it the colony

908
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.119
<v Speaker 3>really well. But then digging up the colony is it's

909
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:03.000
<v Speaker 3>so difficult because it doesn't come up in one piece,

910
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:04.679
<v Speaker 3>so then you have to reconstruct it.

911
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.880
<v Speaker 2>So a metal casting of the colony stays intact, but

912
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the plaster cast has to be reconstructed like a jigsack

913
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:18.199
<v Speaker 2>as it breaks apart. Now, however, molten metal surprise destroys

914
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:21.440
<v Speaker 2>all the ants, while the plaster can be washed away

915
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:24.960
<v Speaker 2>later and the scientists can figure out which ants we're

916
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:27.320
<v Speaker 2>kicking it in which part of their house.

917
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:29.000
<v Speaker 3>And so you can be like, oh, these ants were

918
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:30.760
<v Speaker 3>in this chamber, these ants were in this chamber.

919
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, you can't do that with metal exactly. Can

920
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:38.119
<v Speaker 2>you imagine if just just a wall of molten metal

921
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 2>came out like a flash flood out of nowhere. Yeah,

922
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.199
<v Speaker 2>you're just like we oh, oh my god, are you

923
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:45.960
<v Speaker 2>ready for rapid fire around?

924
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:46.760
<v Speaker 3>Uh? Sure.

925
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.639
<v Speaker 2>But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners,

926
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of

927
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.639
<v Speaker 2>the show. Sponsors. Why sponsors? You know what they do?

928
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.719
<v Speaker 2>They help us give money to different charities every week.

929
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>So if you want to know Whereologies gives our money,

930
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:03.960
<v Speaker 2>you can go to alleyword dot com and look for

931
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:07.079
<v Speaker 2>the tab Ologies gives back. There's like one hundred and

932
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.239
<v Speaker 2>fifty different charities that we've given to already, with more

933
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:12.400
<v Speaker 2>every single week. So if you need a place to

934
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:13.880
<v Speaker 2>go donate a little bit of money, but you're not

935
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:17.000
<v Speaker 2>sure where to go. Those are all picked biologists who

936
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:20.480
<v Speaker 2>work in those fields, and this ad break allows us

937
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.840
<v Speaker 2>to give a ton of money to them. So thanks

938
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:25.559
<v Speaker 2>for listening, and thank sponsors.

939
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.599
<v Speaker 1>You're on the bus an hour from home and bumper

940
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:31.880
<v Speaker 1>to bumper traffic creeping forward a few inches at a time.

941
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Someone's kids are screaming, and suddenly your back is too. Luckily,

942
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:41.599
<v Speaker 1>Panadal extra film coated tablets are boosted by caffeine and

943
00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>they get to work in as little as ten minutes

944
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 1>for powerful relief. That's more than just paracetamol. That's one

945
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:52.559
<v Speaker 1>for Panadal speed based on absorption data. Contains paracetamol. Always

946
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:53.639
<v Speaker 1>read the label or leaflet.

947
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, your questions okay, Patreon question. I got like eighty questions. Okay,

948
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.039
<v Speaker 2>but we're not going to do all of them because

949
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:06.599
<v Speaker 2>some people ask the same questions. We're going to run

950
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:08.239
<v Speaker 2>through as many as we can. Are you ready, okay?

951
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Sarah nasheall wants to know why do bullet ants scream

952
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:13.239
<v Speaker 2>when they attack? Is it an intimidation tactic?

953
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 3>I some people think so. I think it could be. Yeah.

954
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:21.480
<v Speaker 3>So bullets make this when you disturb a nest and

955
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.039
<v Speaker 3>the odor is a little garlicky when they do that,

956
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.320
<v Speaker 3>and so I'm assume and so I jump back when

957
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.519
<v Speaker 3>I hear it, and so I imagine that other vertebrates

958
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:34.039
<v Speaker 3>do too, because that way it's a warning sign. My

959
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:36.239
<v Speaker 3>guess is yes, but has been shown experimentally.

960
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Sure if you hear that, I mean, why do you

961
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:41.320
<v Speaker 2>think Rattlesnakes have rattles? Right, They're like, don't make me

962
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:44.679
<v Speaker 2>use this venom exactly, so they're like, you know what's coming.

963
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:52.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like the ice cream truck, but like with pain

964
00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:56.079
<v Speaker 2>and death. Todd McLaren wants to know what's the deepest

965
00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 2>ant hole recorded any idea?

966
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:01.800
<v Speaker 3>So I know there are if you look at leafcutter

967
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 3>ant colonies, they can go like maybe ten twenty meters deep.

968
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:10.079
<v Speaker 3>I think there are probably some that go deeper that

969
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:13.280
<v Speaker 3>we haven't collected, Like I know people that have tried

970
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:17.360
<v Speaker 3>to excavate colonies where like there are these there's these

971
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:20.840
<v Speaker 3>volcano ants in Australia where they make these tiny little

972
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.800
<v Speaker 3>mounds of soil that look like volcanoes and you try

973
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.039
<v Speaker 3>to dig them up and the hole just goes deep

974
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.519
<v Speaker 3>and deep and deep deep. So I know people have

975
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.880
<v Speaker 3>gone down many meters and not found them.

976
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Damn. That's that's some spelunking right there. For reels. Jessica

977
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Chamberlain wants to know if you're mean like my husband

978
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:41.800
<v Speaker 2>and squish a scout ant that you see, you know,

979
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.360
<v Speaker 2>on its own in your house, will the colony send

980
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.920
<v Speaker 2>another scout to look for it or will they just

981
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.519
<v Speaker 2>abandon the fallen comrade.

982
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.639
<v Speaker 3>My ex So, I'm just speaking from experience. If it's

983
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:56.960
<v Speaker 3>in your house and you have one ant roaming around,

984
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 3>if you if it's the very very first ant. In theory,

985
00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:05.639
<v Speaker 3>maybe but in practice probably not. Oh really, okay, so

986
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.119
<v Speaker 3>probably send more. All right, So they're just.

987
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Like, hey, where's Heidi, And they're like, I don't know,

988
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:13.039
<v Speaker 2>go find her. Maybe she found good stuff.

989
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:15.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think they probably forget that. I mean, it's

990
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.320
<v Speaker 3>better to do that than not if you don't want

991
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.079
<v Speaker 3>them to come back. But I think it's probably futile.

992
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:24.519
<v Speaker 3>I think i'd look for the gun instead, okay, or

993
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:25.800
<v Speaker 3>follower and see where she goes.

994
00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:29.119
<v Speaker 2>So if you keep following her and she's like on

995
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.440
<v Speaker 2>her way home, she's like doing her home commute, you

996
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:32.880
<v Speaker 2>can find where the entrance is.

997
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Totally, which is about like what how I spend most

998
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:37.199
<v Speaker 3>of my time in the forest. If I'm like, if

999
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:39.199
<v Speaker 3>you want to find an ant colony, give them food,

1000
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:41.360
<v Speaker 3>then they'll walk back to their home. So actually, if

1001
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:42.880
<v Speaker 3>you're trying to get rid of that scouting aunt, what

1002
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.159
<v Speaker 3>you do is feeder, then see what crack she's going

1003
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.719
<v Speaker 3>to go into, then kill her and cover up the crack.

1004
00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:53.679
<v Speaker 2>That's that's really calculated. Yeah, that's not that's like definitely

1005
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:57.719
<v Speaker 2>premeditated first degree instead of just a crime of opportunity

1006
00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:01.519
<v Speaker 2>or passion. That's amazing. You're like, oh, do you want

1007
00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 2>to crumb? And she's like, I mean I think you

1008
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:04.440
<v Speaker 2>was a much like this home, and you're like, no,

1009
00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.519
<v Speaker 2>you want a bitch. Several people wanted to know how

1010
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:10.159
<v Speaker 2>are ants so strong? How can they lift ten times

1011
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 2>their own weight? Rada Evan McKenna all wanted to know

1012
00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:16.519
<v Speaker 2>how much weight can ants carry? Why are they so strong?

1013
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:18.239
<v Speaker 3>So I think the answer is they can carry like

1014
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.719
<v Speaker 3>maybe one hundred tw hundred times their masks or something

1015
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.079
<v Speaker 3>like that. And so the answer is is that ants

1016
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.400
<v Speaker 3>are not particularly strong. It's just a matter of scaling

1017
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:31.280
<v Speaker 3>for body size. So in other words, if you were

1018
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.800
<v Speaker 3>to shrink your own body down to the size of

1019
00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:37.119
<v Speaker 3>an ant, then you would be as strong as an

1020
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:40.679
<v Speaker 3>ant that size, Okay, And so it's scaling. The way

1021
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:44.239
<v Speaker 3>that muscles work is their power. It's a function of

1022
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.960
<v Speaker 3>like the cross sectional area of the muscle essentially, and

1023
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:49.360
<v Speaker 3>so if you shrink down then you're just that much

1024
00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:51.480
<v Speaker 3>more powerful. And so just like if you were to

1025
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:54.239
<v Speaker 3>take an ant and to scale them up to our size,

1026
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 3>then they'd only be as strong as us.

1027
00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:58.159
<v Speaker 2>They could barely do a push up and they're like,

1028
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:01.119
<v Speaker 2>my luggage is too well, someone put it in the

1029
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:03.320
<v Speaker 2>overhead for me. I had no idea. I thought they

1030
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:05.119
<v Speaker 2>got so much props. I thought they were just like

1031
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.320
<v Speaker 2>mystically strong.

1032
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:07.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally.

1033
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:12.159
<v Speaker 2>Who knew physics scaling? Cody Woppingcamp and Dave Miller both

1034
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 2>pretty much wanted to know. Someone once told me that,

1035
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:19.360
<v Speaker 2>based on estimates, ants outnumber humans. Am I gullible? Or

1036
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:22.519
<v Speaker 2>is that fact true? And is it true that the

1037
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:24.039
<v Speaker 2>weight of all the ants in the world exceeds the

1038
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:27.320
<v Speaker 2>weight of humans. So let's debunk some flim flam numbers

1039
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.360
<v Speaker 2>and weights of ants versus human.

1040
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:32.519
<v Speaker 3>Oh, there's way way way more ants than people. There

1041
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:33.960
<v Speaker 3>has to be. Oh, like for any back of the

1042
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:37.119
<v Speaker 3>envelope calculation, I would say every other thing that people

1043
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.960
<v Speaker 3>say about ants dates back to and off the cuff

1044
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:42.400
<v Speaker 3>thing that EO. Wilson said twenty years ago.

1045
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:47.119
<v Speaker 2>So for some context, eighty nine year old American biologist

1046
00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:50.199
<v Speaker 2>and author EO. Wilson is said to be the world's

1047
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:54.800
<v Speaker 2>foremost expert on ants, and he postulated in a nineteen

1048
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:59.079
<v Speaker 2>ninety four book quote, when combined, all ants in the

1049
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:03.800
<v Speaker 2>world taken together, way about as much as all human beings.

1050
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Like all mirrormacologists know this quote.

1051
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:11.360
<v Speaker 3>And so that's the thing about the massive ants being

1052
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.960
<v Speaker 3>equivalent to the massive people, and so you know, getting

1053
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.360
<v Speaker 3>more murrmacologists using more back of envelope calculations were like, yeah,

1054
00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:20.480
<v Speaker 3>that sounds fine.

1055
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So ants outnumber human beings definitely numerically and also

1056
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.639
<v Speaker 2>by weight.

1057
00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:32.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, or maybe about the same, but ballpark, it could

1058
00:53:32.199 --> 00:53:35.280
<v Speaker 3>be within an order of magnitude, you know, the same

1059
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:36.239
<v Speaker 3>as more or less.

1060
00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So then that's not even flim flam that we

1061
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.639
<v Speaker 2>needed to debunk. Yeah, that's some real shit. Kendall Thorsten,

1062
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Christopher Marley, and Eva all want to ask about ant farming,

1063
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:51.519
<v Speaker 2>like do they farm aphids? You mentioned something about a

1064
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:57.119
<v Speaker 2>fungus farm, Like, how did they get so good at farming? Like,

1065
00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:00.159
<v Speaker 2>does that make them smarter than early humans?

1066
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:00.800
<v Speaker 4>Well?

1067
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 3>That makes them more social, I mean, so, I mean,

1068
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:05.480
<v Speaker 3>so the question is what is smart?

1069
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Right, this is your philosophy background.

1070
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:13.320
<v Speaker 3>So the party line is that ants evolved agriculture sixty

1071
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 3>million years ago with fungus growing ants, Oh my god.

1072
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:20.599
<v Speaker 3>And so they you know, collected bits of like animal

1073
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:23.400
<v Speaker 3>poop or whatnot. And so famously, now leaf cutter ants

1074
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:25.719
<v Speaker 3>will cut leaves and they'll grow a big garden.

1075
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:29.440
<v Speaker 2>So remember there are the leaf cutter ants that take

1076
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:33.800
<v Speaker 2>leaf pieces and grow focus on them. Well, meanwhile, me

1077
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.239
<v Speaker 2>and a live human who can drive a car and

1078
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.800
<v Speaker 2>skype France has killed three cacti in the last year.

1079
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:44.519
<v Speaker 3>And so they and so they carefully tend to this

1080
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:47.039
<v Speaker 3>garden and they use the same kind of integrated past

1081
00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:49.039
<v Speaker 3>management that we use in our crops. Oh my god,

1082
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:51.239
<v Speaker 3>that's crazy, you know. And there's weeds that grow in there,

1083
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:54.840
<v Speaker 3>and they've evolved relationships with bacteria that attack those weeds

1084
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 3>and all that, you know. And so every single day,

1085
00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, there's someone in a few labs that's discovering

1086
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:03.679
<v Speaker 3>a new partner in this coevolved complex situation of how

1087
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:06.880
<v Speaker 3>ants do this. So, so I would say the analogy

1088
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:10.320
<v Speaker 3>for farming would be with fungus growing ants, whereas the

1089
00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:14.800
<v Speaker 3>analogy for ranching, I would say would be with aphids. Right,

1090
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:20.679
<v Speaker 3>oh right, Because so ants will occasionally will grow aphids,

1091
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:24.239
<v Speaker 3>and they will milk the aphids to get their honey due,

1092
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:27.199
<v Speaker 3>which is basically the leftover sugary stuff that the aphids

1093
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:31.440
<v Speaker 3>don't consume when they're feeding on plants. And so, and

1094
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:34.079
<v Speaker 3>there's also caterpillars that will do this with ants too.

1095
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:38.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's this is essentially just like like nectar.

1096
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.880
<v Speaker 3>P right, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But also analogously, in addition

1097
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.039
<v Speaker 3>to milking, cows occasionally will kill them and eat them.

1098
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:46.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, the same thing is that the ants and

1099
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.119
<v Speaker 3>the aphids they won't you know, they might eat an

1100
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:48.960
<v Speaker 3>aphid once in a while.

1101
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:51.280
<v Speaker 2>And are they managing the herd.

1102
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:55.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh, they carefully. Yes, They will transport them around and

1103
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:58.639
<v Speaker 3>adaptively manage it. They sometimes, you know, they'll kill off

1104
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:01.360
<v Speaker 3>a plant by using too many of them, but oftentimes

1105
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.800
<v Speaker 3>they use ranching management techniques.

1106
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's so wild less, that's insane, so cowboy, Okay, So,

1107
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Kristin McAdams and Lily Hill both want to know why

1108
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:16.599
<v Speaker 2>do fire ants hate me? They both asked in particular,

1109
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:20.039
<v Speaker 2>why do fire ants hate me? So Lily and Kristen

1110
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:22.320
<v Speaker 2>at least know it's not just you, and Mark wants

1111
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.079
<v Speaker 2>to know how can they act as both a solid

1112
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:27.079
<v Speaker 2>and a liquid? So fire ants, what's their beef about?

1113
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:29.119
<v Speaker 2>And also are they solid or liquid?

1114
00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? So why fire ants are just like so mad?

1115
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 3>So ants will defend their nests, and so if you

1116
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:40.920
<v Speaker 3>take an individual fire ant, it can walk on you

1117
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:42.760
<v Speaker 3>and it's not going to sting you right away. But

1118
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:44.719
<v Speaker 3>the thing is, if you disrupt a mound, then it's

1119
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.480
<v Speaker 3>gonna get really mad at you. And so most other ants,

1120
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.280
<v Speaker 3>you can't destroy their mounds so easily because they're underground

1121
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.519
<v Speaker 3>or something, Whereas fire ants have this big soil mound

1122
00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:57.039
<v Speaker 3>above the surface, and so if you kick that soil mound,

1123
00:56:57.039 --> 00:56:58.800
<v Speaker 3>then they're just gonna get really pissed because it's like

1124
00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:00.920
<v Speaker 3>you just took apart their home. And so I think

1125
00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:03.920
<v Speaker 3>they seem to be more angry because the structure of

1126
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.639
<v Speaker 3>their home is a lot more likely to be disturbed,

1127
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.800
<v Speaker 3>and they also have a potent sting that goes with it.

1128
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Lesson insecurity makes us bitches.

1129
00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 3>And so the whole solid liquid thing is like and

1130
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:19.039
<v Speaker 3>so in how they can they can float and raft

1131
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:22.519
<v Speaker 3>when it floods, So it's cool. So fire ants evolved

1132
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:27.920
<v Speaker 3>in these seasonal floodplains in South America, and so when

1133
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:30.519
<v Speaker 3>it floods, the colonies can just pick up and then

1134
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:33.199
<v Speaker 3>raft along and then land when the waters recede. And

1135
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:36.920
<v Speaker 3>so the ants bodies will cling together. And then if

1136
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.000
<v Speaker 3>you have a whole bunch of ants clinging together, then

1137
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:42.559
<v Speaker 3>they will like pour with these physical properties will actually

1138
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:44.760
<v Speaker 3>they act as a liquid. But the ants themselves also

1139
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:46.480
<v Speaker 3>can be a solid. And so I don't think I

1140
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:52.559
<v Speaker 3>can offer a solid antswer with prospective physics how they

1141
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:53.760
<v Speaker 3>do that, But it's super cool.

1142
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:57.480
<v Speaker 2>I floated this idea by Google, and it turns out

1143
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:01.599
<v Speaker 2>that the little hairs on their tiny lady legs trap

1144
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:06.840
<v Speaker 2>enough hair to keep them all afloat. So congratulations, there

1145
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.840
<v Speaker 2>is another reason to avoid shaving your legs today. Oh

1146
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Olivia Rus's great question says, as soon as she saw

1147
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.199
<v Speaker 2>this post, it reminded me of the infection that turns

1148
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:18.119
<v Speaker 2>ants into zombies. What is it and what's the life cycle?

1149
00:58:18.320 --> 00:58:19.679
<v Speaker 2>This is cordyceps.

1150
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:24.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, so the common name cordyceps like opio cordyceps. Yeah.

1151
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:28.280
<v Speaker 3>So the zombie ant fungus is super cool. So and

1152
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.960
<v Speaker 3>there's a number of people working to figure this critter out.

1153
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:33.280
<v Speaker 3>It takes over the brain of the animal and it

1154
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.519
<v Speaker 3>tells them to perch somewhere and then then that results

1155
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.719
<v Speaker 3>in that kills the animal. Then the spore gets spread

1156
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:41.239
<v Speaker 3>that will infect another animal.

1157
00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:44.679
<v Speaker 2>It's super cool, and now it kind of turns them

1158
00:58:44.719 --> 00:58:47.559
<v Speaker 2>into these zombies though, like where some ants will crawl

1159
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:50.400
<v Speaker 2>up a plant stem, perch out on the leaf, and

1160
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:53.800
<v Speaker 2>then wait until the cordyceps explodes from their head and

1161
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.400
<v Speaker 2>infects all of their family members.

1162
00:58:56.280 --> 00:58:59.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that usually the explosion happens after the

1163
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:02.599
<v Speaker 3>already dead and perched, But yeah, they will go to

1164
00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:05.960
<v Speaker 3>a location that helps the dispersal of the fungal spores.

1165
00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:09.079
<v Speaker 3>And so it turns out that and there's a recent

1166
00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:12.079
<v Speaker 3>paper that came out showing that the way that ants

1167
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:15.960
<v Speaker 3>bite onto the tissue corresponds to the environment that you're

1168
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.519
<v Speaker 3>in that they're in so to help it spread more effectively.

1169
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:23.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, does this stuff ever just completely boggle you, Like,

1170
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.719
<v Speaker 2>do you start thinking, do you get galaxy brain where

1171
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:29.079
<v Speaker 2>you're like, what is anything? Is this all a simulation?

1172
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.400
<v Speaker 2>It does dark matter teach ants what to do? Like

1173
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:37.159
<v Speaker 2>do you ever get stonery about this stuff? Uh?

1174
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I kind of used to. But the thing is,

1175
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:40.960
<v Speaker 3>for every single thing that I read about that's weird,

1176
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:43.519
<v Speaker 3>I know, like people have already figured out like even

1177
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:46.760
<v Speaker 3>weirder things, and so I think it's like, wow, that's

1178
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:49.559
<v Speaker 3>super cool. I mean, yeah, that's amazing, you know. But

1179
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:52.079
<v Speaker 3>then there are these flukes, you know, that will have

1180
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:54.880
<v Speaker 3>like three or four different hosts for example, so they'll

1181
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.159
<v Speaker 3>infect a bird, and they'll infect a snail and like

1182
00:59:57.199 --> 00:59:59.559
<v Speaker 3>an alien and you know, and then this complex life

1183
00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:02.119
<v Speaker 3>cycle it affects the behavior of every single one. And

1184
01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:05.159
<v Speaker 3>so I mean, look at them, like Cordyceps seems kind

1185
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:07.880
<v Speaker 3>of straightforward compared to some of these other crazy like

1186
01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:11.639
<v Speaker 3>host altering ones, Like you know, does the toxoplasmosis actually

1187
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:13.920
<v Speaker 3>cause people to not have fear or so on? Like

1188
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:14.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1189
01:00:15.079 --> 01:00:19.400
<v Speaker 2>This isn't even college roommate bong ripper philosophy. This is

1190
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:24.039
<v Speaker 2>just the wild world of brain parasites. Speaking of peril,

1191
01:00:24.519 --> 01:00:29.519
<v Speaker 2>Kellen Freeman and Ray Kasha both want to know how

1192
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:33.280
<v Speaker 2>the death spiral works. What is happening in an ant

1193
01:00:33.320 --> 01:00:33.960
<v Speaker 2>death spiral?

1194
01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:37.719
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So, so for the uninitiated, the death spiral is

1195
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:42.239
<v Speaker 3>this thing where so armiance forage in these big raids,

1196
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 3>and so they all follow one another. If you're to

1197
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:48.760
<v Speaker 3>take a bunch of armiants and somehow separate them from

1198
01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:51.519
<v Speaker 3>the rest of their colony, you can trick them or

1199
01:00:51.559 --> 01:00:54.039
<v Speaker 3>they might accidentally what happen, Like would march in a

1200
01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:57.159
<v Speaker 3>big circle, right, They just follow one another, and so

1201
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.960
<v Speaker 3>they basically create a single pheromonal trail. And so death

1202
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.000
<v Speaker 3>probably just keep marching and marching until they're old dead.

1203
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:05.280
<v Speaker 3>Why Yeah, Well, because the thing is, they all follow

1204
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:09.599
<v Speaker 3>one another in big trail. So like individual ant colonies

1205
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:14.119
<v Speaker 3>can solve complex problems and do big things, but ant

1206
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:16.559
<v Speaker 3>workers are dumb and they follow simple rules.

1207
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:20.559
<v Speaker 2>Terry explains how this is kind of like computer code.

1208
01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:23.760
<v Speaker 3>And so if you have an army at colony that's

1209
01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:29.239
<v Speaker 3>a quarter million ants, every ant is doing following a

1210
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:31.639
<v Speaker 3>simple program. Yeah, and when you have all these simple

1211
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:34.239
<v Speaker 3>bits of code together, then they function. But if you

1212
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:36.519
<v Speaker 3>were to take some of these individual ants and separate

1213
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:39.079
<v Speaker 3>them from the other ants, then they're just kind of screwed,

1214
01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:41.000
<v Speaker 3>and they'll just wander around. Like so, if you take

1215
01:01:41.039 --> 01:01:43.880
<v Speaker 3>an ant and bring her away from her colony to

1216
01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:46.079
<v Speaker 3>the far enough away that she'll never get back. She's

1217
01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:47.719
<v Speaker 3>not like that dog that's going to cross the whole

1218
01:01:47.719 --> 01:01:48.960
<v Speaker 3>country and find its way home.

1219
01:01:52.239 --> 01:02:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh, Peter, I wondered about your soul. Yeah, no, it's

1220
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:06.199
<v Speaker 2>not like nineteen ninety three's homework Bound.

1221
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:09.199
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's going to be like, oh, I don't

1222
01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:11.559
<v Speaker 3>know where to go, and then wander around aimlessly until

1223
01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:13.840
<v Speaker 3>it tries to find some signal about where its home

1224
01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:18.440
<v Speaker 3>might be, and then it won't and they'll just die. Huh,

1225
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:21.079
<v Speaker 3>because it's a bummer man.

1226
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:23.840
<v Speaker 2>So Tracy Benhimau wants to know. I have to know.

1227
01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Will ants added to a camping saute add a little

1228
01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:30.039
<v Speaker 2>flavor like lemon juice due to the acetic acid in

1229
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:31.639
<v Speaker 2>their heads? Have you eaten ants?

1230
01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Some ants? Yeah? Yeah, I try not to. I'm vegetarian,

1231
01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:38.760
<v Speaker 3>so I extend that to insects. But I've tried some

1232
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:41.000
<v Speaker 3>and inadvertently. I mean, we all eat insects when we

1233
01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:43.639
<v Speaker 3>don't try. So there are some ants that tastes absolutely horrible.

1234
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.559
<v Speaker 3>But for instance, in this part of the world we

1235
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:51.000
<v Speaker 3>have what we call citronella ants, and so they live underground,

1236
01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:54.440
<v Speaker 3>the genus Lazias, and they actually have a citronella eat

1237
01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:58.400
<v Speaker 3>order to them. And so the weaver ants in Southeast

1238
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:02.119
<v Speaker 3>Asia and northern Theustralian wet tropics, they have a lemony

1239
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:04.280
<v Speaker 3>flavor to their butts. Some people call them lemon ants.

1240
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:06.639
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they have that much acetic acid. I

1241
01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:09.800
<v Speaker 3>mean there's formic acid, buteric acid, So ceedic acid is

1242
01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:10.760
<v Speaker 3>straight up vinegar.

1243
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Lemon Ants, by the way, release this citrusy smell when

1244
01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:19.000
<v Speaker 2>attacked to warn others. And they also use formic acid

1245
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:22.760
<v Speaker 2>as an herbicide, and that creates clearings in the forest

1246
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:27.039
<v Speaker 2>where nothing really grows. This is called a devil's garden,

1247
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:30.599
<v Speaker 2>which is definitely a venue that my existential metal band,

1248
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Mirror Meat, would love to play.

1249
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.280
<v Speaker 3>But ants, what might add other flavors? I mean, people

1250
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:40.599
<v Speaker 3>will eat, will roast like queens of leafcutter ants. People

1251
01:03:41.400 --> 01:03:44.239
<v Speaker 3>once a year will collect the brood of weaver ants

1252
01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:46.320
<v Speaker 3>and collect them in large, large numbers. You can get

1253
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.079
<v Speaker 3>them in ethnic food stores and jars here.

1254
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I hear that there might be a little

1255
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:50.760
<v Speaker 2>spicy too.

1256
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:53.360
<v Speaker 3>Some ants oh some of them. Yeah, they have a

1257
01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:54.159
<v Speaker 3>little bit of spice.

1258
01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, crazy, I think I've eaten ants. I can't. I

1259
01:03:56.679 --> 01:04:00.440
<v Speaker 2>think I've had ants on a cookie on purpose. But yeah,

1260
01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:04.440
<v Speaker 2>let's see Elliott and Ayah wants to know, do it fart?

1261
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Do ants fart?

1262
01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:05.840
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1263
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:07.360
<v Speaker 3>My god, I haven't gotten to that page in the

1264
01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:07.920
<v Speaker 3>book yet.

1265
01:04:08.440 --> 01:04:13.199
<v Speaker 2>So Terry is referencing the best selling book does it Fart? Now?

1266
01:04:13.239 --> 01:04:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't have a copy of this book, but I

1267
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:19.440
<v Speaker 2>do have evidence that ant man might taken from this

1268
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:26.760
<v Speaker 2>screen Junkies interview with Paul Rodd Paul run shooting. He

1269
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:32.079
<v Speaker 2>has either a very squeaky chair or problematic intestines. Ant farms,

1270
01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:32.679
<v Speaker 2>yes or no?

1271
01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:37.239
<v Speaker 3>Ant farm the ones that you buy out of the

1272
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:41.559
<v Speaker 3>box until and Uncle Milton know because they're all going

1273
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:43.840
<v Speaker 3>to die because they don't send you a queen. They

1274
01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:46.440
<v Speaker 3>just die. And it's like so it's like, there's these

1275
01:04:46.440 --> 01:04:49.280
<v Speaker 3>onion articles about getting an ant farm is a lesson

1276
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:52.119
<v Speaker 3>and toiling until you die, that's what that is. But

1277
01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:54.519
<v Speaker 3>if you were to build your own ant farm and

1278
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.920
<v Speaker 3>collect your own ant colony, there are many amateur like

1279
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:01.360
<v Speaker 3>enthusiasts who really know that biology and are super cool

1280
01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:03.360
<v Speaker 3>and there's ant chat rooms and they're willing to help.

1281
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:05.719
<v Speaker 3>And so if you want your own ant colonies, then

1282
01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:06.800
<v Speaker 3>doing it that way. Yes.

1283
01:05:07.119 --> 01:05:08.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh so as long as you get the queen and

1284
01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you set it upright and you do it respectfully.

1285
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:11.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly.

1286
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:11.840
<v Speaker 2>That's cool.

1287
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:14.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, super cool. There's a whole community of people who

1288
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:14.320
<v Speaker 3>do that.

1289
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:17.000
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I can't have a dog in this apartment,

1290
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:20.119
<v Speaker 2>but maybe I could adopt like a couple thousand ants.

1291
01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:22.199
<v Speaker 3>You could totally have an ant colony in here yet, right,

1292
01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:23.239
<v Speaker 3>I just.

1293
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Found my summer project. A few different people like Craig

1294
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Minami and Sarah Sparrow want to know if there are

1295
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:34.800
<v Speaker 2>plants or natural remedies or other insects that you could

1296
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:36.400
<v Speaker 2>use in your house to deter ants.

1297
01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:44.719
<v Speaker 3>Probably not, okay. So there's a lot of you know,

1298
01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:48.039
<v Speaker 3>discussion about well, like chemicals could you use? Could you

1299
01:05:48.280 --> 01:05:52.599
<v Speaker 3>spray powder or chalk or cayenne pepper or whatever? Pretty

1300
01:05:52.639 --> 01:05:53.480
<v Speaker 3>much those don't work?

1301
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, cinnamon no, no, just check it. Okay. So the

1302
01:05:58.159 --> 01:05:59.000
<v Speaker 2>answer is no.

1303
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:02.320
<v Speaker 3>The answer is got to the cock gun. Yeah, or

1304
01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:05.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean so a general answer would be would be

1305
01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:08.760
<v Speaker 3>to kill your lawn? What right? Because I mean, I

1306
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:10.480
<v Speaker 3>mean so of course, I've killed my lawn and I

1307
01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:12.480
<v Speaker 3>still have trouble with ants. At least if you're in

1308
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:15.559
<v Speaker 3>a place, a dry place like in California where you

1309
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:17.960
<v Speaker 3>have all these argentine ants, they are fed by moisture.

1310
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:21.159
<v Speaker 3>If it's dry, you don't have them. It's like we're

1311
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:23.039
<v Speaker 3>doing a clean up in Compton Creek up on a

1312
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:25.079
<v Speaker 3>dry spot and you had harvester ants like right there

1313
01:06:25.079 --> 01:06:26.280
<v Speaker 3>in the middle of urban whatever.

1314
01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, harvester ants just on the lookout for that quality, organic,

1315
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:36.000
<v Speaker 2>free range, gluten free seed to eat, whereas argentine ants

1316
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:39.079
<v Speaker 2>are munched on pizza crust under a dead possum and

1317
01:06:39.159 --> 01:06:39.639
<v Speaker 2>loving it.

1318
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:42.920
<v Speaker 3>Often the invasive species will be following water or following

1319
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.079
<v Speaker 3>human disturbance. And so so if you get all your

1320
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:50.079
<v Speaker 3>neighbors together and have more native landscaping, then you have

1321
01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:53.880
<v Speaker 3>fewer of these invasive ants that would be taking over

1322
01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:56.320
<v Speaker 3>your house. But once inside. But I think the key

1323
01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:57.519
<v Speaker 3>is to keep.

1324
01:06:57.320 --> 01:07:01.760
<v Speaker 2>From letting them in, Okay, so that just gently follow

1325
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:05.679
<v Speaker 2>them home like an absolute creep, right, Yeah. Anna Thompson

1326
01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:08.440
<v Speaker 2>wants to know, are their loner or introvert ants who

1327
01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:09.880
<v Speaker 2>are not down with the social thing.

1328
01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:17.559
<v Speaker 3>The only non social ants. We have colonies that produce

1329
01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:21.519
<v Speaker 3>what we call social parasites, whereas actually they're not colonies.

1330
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:25.440
<v Speaker 3>They are non social ants, and so they only produce

1331
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:28.360
<v Speaker 3>queens and males. And what they do is the queens

1332
01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:31.920
<v Speaker 3>will then fly off and live inside the colony of

1333
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:36.639
<v Speaker 3>other ants and take their food and lay their own

1334
01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:39.719
<v Speaker 3>eggs and sneak them in with the rest of the colony.

1335
01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:43.880
<v Speaker 2>So side note, the fact that ants don't have a

1336
01:07:43.880 --> 01:07:47.679
<v Speaker 2>long running reality show franchise is an artistic failing of

1337
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:48.360
<v Speaker 2>our culture.

1338
01:07:49.119 --> 01:07:51.639
<v Speaker 3>And then she'll just make queens and males to make

1339
01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:56.239
<v Speaker 3>new colonies. So they're socially parasitic, and they evolved after

1340
01:07:56.320 --> 01:07:57.960
<v Speaker 3>ants originally evolved.

1341
01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:01.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, they're kind of like sociopaths, like freeloaders.

1342
01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:04.440
<v Speaker 3>They're total freeloaders. Yes, all other ants are social.

1343
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I didn't know that. Danny Kay wants to know.

1344
01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever spelled your name out in aunt pheromones?

1345
01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:09.480
<v Speaker 2>All at EO Williams.

1346
01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:13.519
<v Speaker 3>I have not spelled my name out in aunt pharamones?

1347
01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:17.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Chick Zach Tarbal wants to know. I heard that

1348
01:08:17.319 --> 01:08:19.720
<v Speaker 2>ants are great at predicting weather. Is there any truth

1349
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:19.960
<v Speaker 2>to this?

1350
01:08:20.920 --> 01:08:23.680
<v Speaker 3>They are the one example I can think of, is

1351
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:25.880
<v Speaker 3>they are great in predicting weather, is if they know

1352
01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:29.920
<v Speaker 3>if it's really going to rain. So in the for instance,

1353
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:33.880
<v Speaker 3>in dry areas like in the southwestern US, like they

1354
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:37.800
<v Speaker 3>reproduce after a rain storm, and so you'll often if

1355
01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:39.439
<v Speaker 3>you're going to have a lot of rain, like there's

1356
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:43.319
<v Speaker 3>mating flights and so sometimes they'll start flying before the

1357
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.000
<v Speaker 3>rain's hit. And so often people studying them, who are

1358
01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.279
<v Speaker 3>trying to collect them can look at the weather reports

1359
01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:49.960
<v Speaker 3>and be like, oh, I bet they're going to fly tonight.

1360
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:53.279
<v Speaker 2>And you said queens, do some colonies have multiple queens

1361
01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:53.720
<v Speaker 2>or no?

1362
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:57.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so many kinds of ants will have more than

1363
01:08:57.439 --> 01:08:58.359
<v Speaker 3>one queen per colony.

1364
01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Oh I didn't know that. Sean and Josh Grand

1365
01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and EDDI want to know what's the most amazing ant

1366
01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:06.119
<v Speaker 2>behavior you've seen? And do they have self awareness?

1367
01:09:07.079 --> 01:09:09.399
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they have. If we say talk about

1368
01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:12.880
<v Speaker 3>self awareness as in like cognition where they recognize themselves

1369
01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:16.600
<v Speaker 3>in the mirror, I don't think so. Okay, okay, So

1370
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:20.319
<v Speaker 3>the most amazing behavior I've seen deals with the army

1371
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:23.840
<v Speaker 3>ants that roam across the ground and eat all the

1372
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:27.319
<v Speaker 3>other ants that they find. There's this colony of ants,

1373
01:09:27.319 --> 01:09:29.640
<v Speaker 3>which we now call Cappadocian ants.

1374
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I look this up, and this is a

1375
01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:36.279
<v Speaker 2>region in Turkey that's known in part for its elaborate

1376
01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:41.199
<v Speaker 2>network ready for this of underground cities, hidden tunnels that

1377
01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:44.880
<v Speaker 2>could house possibly up to twenty thousand people, the entrances

1378
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:50.119
<v Speaker 2>of which could be concealed by boulders, like full underground

1379
01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:53.680
<v Speaker 2>cities we just discovered a few years ago. Like, if

1380
01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:56.399
<v Speaker 2>you are an archaeologist working on this with any kind

1381
01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:59.399
<v Speaker 2>of hook up, please do holler. I am here by

1382
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:01.359
<v Speaker 2>begging you. Okay, the backed hands.

1383
01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:05.199
<v Speaker 3>So, but there are these Cappadocian ants that are really

1384
01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:09.119
<v Speaker 3>tiny but routinely are subjected to attack my army ants.

1385
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:14.039
<v Speaker 3>Outside their nest entrance. They have a little pebble sitting outside,

1386
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:17.119
<v Speaker 3>and when in an aggressive ant comes to that ant

1387
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:20.319
<v Speaker 3>colony and they smell them, an ant will come out

1388
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:24.039
<v Speaker 3>and drag that pebble and plug the nest shut. And

1389
01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:27.640
<v Speaker 3>so you can stimulate this behavior by getting any kind

1390
01:10:27.720 --> 01:10:30.640
<v Speaker 3>of really aggressive smelly ant, like an army ant, and

1391
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:32.760
<v Speaker 3>wave it in front of the ant entrance and they'll

1392
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.119
<v Speaker 3>come out and they'll grab that little pebble and close

1393
01:10:35.159 --> 01:10:35.600
<v Speaker 3>it shut.

1394
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Damn, They're like nothing to see here, You're not getting

1395
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:42.079
<v Speaker 2>in there. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, like in horror movies

1396
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:43.960
<v Speaker 2>when you see someone block the door with a chair

1397
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.680
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, that'll keep them out. That's so smart.

1398
01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:51.279
<v Speaker 2>I love this question so much. Jade wants to know,

1399
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:55.039
<v Speaker 2>and we ask I asked this definitely from a lot

1400
01:10:55.039 --> 01:10:57.279
<v Speaker 2>of ologists. But Jade wants to know which is more

1401
01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:00.680
<v Speaker 2>accurate scientifically, A bug's life or ants.

1402
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:05.880
<v Speaker 3>Bugs life?

1403
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Really, which do you have a Do you have a

1404
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:10.800
<v Speaker 2>preference between both ant movies?

1405
01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Gosh, well, I've only seen each of them once, okay,

1406
01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:17.680
<v Speaker 3>and I generally I just found the Ants one annoying,

1407
01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:21.000
<v Speaker 3>Like when Woody Allen has a good movie is good.

1408
01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:23.680
<v Speaker 3>But otherwise it's like, you know, and then there's all

1409
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:25.840
<v Speaker 3>these other issues of Woody Allen and so. But I

1410
01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:28.680
<v Speaker 3>think bugs life in general, the whole concept about the colony,

1411
01:11:29.159 --> 01:11:31.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, having a seasonal nature and working together and

1412
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:34.600
<v Speaker 3>storing food. But no, I think I mean, but in general,

1413
01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:36.199
<v Speaker 3>in terms of the life history of the ants, I

1414
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.359
<v Speaker 3>think it's far better than the Ants movie. Ant Man,

1415
01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:41.760
<v Speaker 3>I thought was wonderful. With ant biology, I thought a

1416
01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:44.159
<v Speaker 3>lot of stuff was spot on. It was Dare I say,

1417
01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:45.600
<v Speaker 3>in some ways it was realistic?

1418
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Right now, when you go to your next mermorcology conference,

1419
01:11:50.199 --> 01:11:51.960
<v Speaker 2>will you guys probably talk about that and be like, hey,

1420
01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:53.479
<v Speaker 2>who did the consulting on that? Because it was like

1421
01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:54.119
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good job.

1422
01:11:54.319 --> 01:11:56.640
<v Speaker 3>We all know the dude who's the consulting out No.

1423
01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:59.079
<v Speaker 3>Last one ant meeting I was talking to it was

1424
01:11:59.079 --> 01:12:01.000
<v Speaker 3>a yeah, the grass student who worked on it, and

1425
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:02.640
<v Speaker 3>he did a great job. And he's like, oh, the

1426
01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:04.880
<v Speaker 3>one thing I'm really annoyed about. He was telling me

1427
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:09.960
<v Speaker 3>was that that they didn't do the all ants being female?

1428
01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:10.279
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1429
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:12.199
<v Speaker 2>That was my next question, like, how do you feel

1430
01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:14.720
<v Speaker 2>when you watch the bugs life and it's like protagonist

1431
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:18.039
<v Speaker 2>does like a little male aunt. Are you like, well,

1432
01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:18.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Said.

1433
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:21.920
<v Speaker 3>The thing is, it's like, if you're going to explain

1434
01:12:22.640 --> 01:12:26.000
<v Speaker 3>why all answer female, that's not an easy discussion. I

1435
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:30.199
<v Speaker 3>think old me and other more pedantic people would be like,

1436
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:32.680
<v Speaker 3>oh my gosh, are you kidding? How can you let

1437
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:35.680
<v Speaker 3>them get that wrong? That's like the most basic thing ever. Yeah,

1438
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:40.239
<v Speaker 3>but you know, recent me is like, well, you know, actually,

1439
01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:42.680
<v Speaker 3>since it's not an easy thing to explain and it's

1440
01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:45.680
<v Speaker 3>rather obscure, and it doesn't and the grand scheme of

1441
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:49.039
<v Speaker 3>thing make that much difference, then maybe we should just say, well, yeah,

1442
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:52.600
<v Speaker 3>they're you know, sure, fine whatever, let's not talk about gender.

1443
01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:58.000
<v Speaker 2>So Terry says that there's one character named Anthony that

1444
01:12:58.199 --> 01:13:03.159
<v Speaker 2>is clearly morpholog physically a queen, but it's a male,

1445
01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>which was noted by the consultants. But the studio was like, nah,

1446
01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:07.239
<v Speaker 2>it's fine.

1447
01:13:07.439 --> 01:13:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Because there's all these other things they had absolutely right

1448
01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:12.560
<v Speaker 3>about all the other ants, all these oh well Carpenter

1449
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:14.680
<v Speaker 3>answer like this, and they do this, and you know,

1450
01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:16.439
<v Speaker 3>and Bullet answer like this, and they had all that

1451
01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:18.640
<v Speaker 3>stuff right. Yeah, and they looked like them and they

1452
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:21.399
<v Speaker 3>behaved like them. It was like amazing, And so I

1453
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:24.119
<v Speaker 3>think so they made some decision at the home office

1454
01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:26.439
<v Speaker 3>like Okay, we know the consultant told us about this,

1455
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:28.359
<v Speaker 3>but screwt, We're just not going to do that.

1456
01:13:28.439 --> 01:13:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I do feel like a lot of people know that

1457
01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:35.079
<v Speaker 2>that social insects tend to be primarily female, do you

1458
01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:36.399
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean? I feel like a lot of

1459
01:13:36.399 --> 01:13:38.279
<v Speaker 2>people like you don't have to be like a super

1460
01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:42.439
<v Speaker 2>super obscure like a meer mycology group. You didn't know that,

1461
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:47.640
<v Speaker 2>but what can you describe in a nutshell why they

1462
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:50.239
<v Speaker 2>are female? I know you said it's obscure and complex.

1463
01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:56.439
<v Speaker 3>Okay, But in in ants, bees, and wasps, the males

1464
01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:59.640
<v Speaker 3>have a single copy of the genes. They are haploid,

1465
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:03.560
<v Speaker 3>and females have two copies of the genes, meaning they're diploid.

1466
01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:05.960
<v Speaker 3>And so that's a thing in this group. That's just

1467
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:08.880
<v Speaker 3>the way they are. And so that means that when

1468
01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:13.439
<v Speaker 3>males are making sperm, there's no miosis, there's no sorting

1469
01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:16.479
<v Speaker 3>of genes. So in other words, all male sperm is identical.

1470
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.439
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, And so their sperm is an exact copy

1471
01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:23.520
<v Speaker 3>of them. Oh weird, And so that results weirdness these

1472
01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:26.960
<v Speaker 3>asymmetries in relatedness. But for the most part, like most

1473
01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:30.199
<v Speaker 3>of the social animals that are truly social that way,

1474
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:32.880
<v Speaker 3>have that genetic thing going on.

1475
01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:35.039
<v Speaker 2>And then how do they know that the eggs are

1476
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:36.079
<v Speaker 2>just going to be female?

1477
01:14:36.439 --> 01:14:39.199
<v Speaker 3>Essentially, there's like a competition or a war or whatever

1478
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:41.560
<v Speaker 3>in the colony where a queen will lay an egg

1479
01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:45.000
<v Speaker 3>and she can choose to make it a male or female,

1480
01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:48.119
<v Speaker 3>depending on whether or not she squirts sperm on it.

1481
01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:51.239
<v Speaker 3>Because in insects, the females have an organ called a sperma.

1482
01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:55.159
<v Speaker 3>Thinka that store is sperm. So so males die after

1483
01:14:55.159 --> 01:14:58.239
<v Speaker 3>they have sex for the most part, but worse for females,

1484
01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:00.279
<v Speaker 3>what they do is they just don't have sex again.

1485
01:15:00.319 --> 01:15:01.840
<v Speaker 3>They just store the sperm for the rest of their life.

1486
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Right. Oh, man, you get one super lay and then

1487
01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:05.279
<v Speaker 2>you're like, I guess I'm.

1488
01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:07.439
<v Speaker 3>Celibate, yeah, or maybe a bunch, and then you have

1489
01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:09.000
<v Speaker 3>sperm for multiple males. But then that's it.

1490
01:15:09.159 --> 01:15:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah right.

1491
01:15:10.279 --> 01:15:12.640
<v Speaker 3>And so then so then she lays an egg, she

1492
01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:16.079
<v Speaker 3>can make it a male by not putting any sperm

1493
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:18.000
<v Speaker 3>on it, or she can make it a female by

1494
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:21.880
<v Speaker 3>fertilizing it. Oh, when she makes a male, that's one

1495
01:15:21.960 --> 01:15:23.840
<v Speaker 3>hundred percent her genes, right.

1496
01:15:23.920 --> 01:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Okay, that's kind of crazy.

1497
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.720
<v Speaker 3>So genetically, it's in the female's interest actually to make

1498
01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:34.760
<v Speaker 3>males because the males are more closely related to her

1499
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:37.760
<v Speaker 3>than her daughters, who are only fifty percent related to her.

1500
01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:41.239
<v Speaker 3>So if if a queen essentially is being selfish, then

1501
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:44.720
<v Speaker 3>she's making too many males. But then the workers will

1502
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:48.119
<v Speaker 3>get pissed off. And if the you know, because the

1503
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.239
<v Speaker 3>workers want them to lay sisters, because the work because

1504
01:15:51.279 --> 01:15:53.800
<v Speaker 3>the workers are more closely related to the sisters.

1505
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. And thrones.

1506
01:15:56.479 --> 01:15:58.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's totally Game of Thrones and so there's all

1507
01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:01.880
<v Speaker 3>these conflicts of interest and it's a total met So for.

1508
01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:05.039
<v Speaker 2>A long time, scientists were very firm in thinking that

1509
01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:08.680
<v Speaker 2>the relatedness caused the evolution of social behavior.

1510
01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:12.159
<v Speaker 3>But there's a new generation of scientists that didn't live

1511
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:16.199
<v Speaker 3>through these wars. But anyone who's my generation or older, like, like,

1512
01:16:16.239 --> 01:16:17.479
<v Speaker 3>we're talking as fighting words.

1513
01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, drama, So drama in the colony, drama outside

1514
01:16:22.119 --> 01:16:24.640
<v Speaker 2>of the colony looking at the colony. Yeah. Total Who

1515
01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:27.560
<v Speaker 2>knew that ant life was just like such a roiling

1516
01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:28.600
<v Speaker 2>soap opera?

1517
01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:29.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1518
01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So last questions, what do you hate about your

1519
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:35.880
<v Speaker 2>job other than getting stung by bullet ants?

1520
01:16:40.439 --> 01:16:40.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1521
01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:48.119
<v Speaker 3>Gosh, I guess well, I guess I don't. Oh, this

1522
01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:49.880
<v Speaker 3>is a hard thing to say because it's so awesome.

1523
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:53.279
<v Speaker 3>But as a mermacologist, what do I hate about being

1524
01:16:53.319 --> 01:16:57.319
<v Speaker 3>a mermacologist? I guess it's because being in southern California,

1525
01:16:57.359 --> 01:16:59.760
<v Speaker 3>the ants are relatively boring compared to so many other parts.

1526
01:16:59.640 --> 01:16:59.960
<v Speaker 4>Of the world.

1527
01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:03.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we don't have quite as much like trapdoor ants

1528
01:17:03.319 --> 01:17:06.159
<v Speaker 2>and fungus ants, and we've got like, we've got a

1529
01:17:06.159 --> 01:17:08.560
<v Speaker 2>couple of big species battling it out, right, So.

1530
01:17:08.600 --> 01:17:11.159
<v Speaker 3>You have argentine ants, which is like, oh, snevasis species

1531
01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:12.840
<v Speaker 3>and blah blah blah blah. And then some of the

1532
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:14.920
<v Speaker 3>native ants. Oh, they're kind of cool. But it's like,

1533
01:17:14.920 --> 01:17:17.319
<v Speaker 3>once you get tropical, then you see all these amazing things,

1534
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:19.600
<v Speaker 3>and so I see them when I go elsewhere, but

1535
01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:20.319
<v Speaker 3>not when I'm here.

1536
01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:25.680
<v Speaker 2>So I guess it keeps you thirsty for field research, right, yeah, exactly.

1537
01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:28.439
<v Speaker 2>Are you ever like at a picnic in La You're

1538
01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:30.680
<v Speaker 2>like at someone's house and you get distracted by ants

1539
01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:31.800
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, well, I gotta go look at that.

1540
01:17:32.439 --> 01:17:34.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, once in a while, and people chortal will be like, oh,

1541
01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:37.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, I should have like a vile in my

1542
01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:39.239
<v Speaker 3>pocket at all times, but I don't. But some people,

1543
01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:40.920
<v Speaker 3>I know, they don't go anywhere without a vial.

1544
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Do you have friends who call you hand man?

1545
01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's a few.

1546
01:17:44.359 --> 01:17:46.439
<v Speaker 2>And then what do you love the most about being

1547
01:17:46.479 --> 01:17:47.319
<v Speaker 2>a mirmacologist.

1548
01:17:50.560 --> 01:17:55.000
<v Speaker 3>There's still so much mystery, Like it's a whole frontier.

1549
01:17:55.159 --> 01:17:57.840
<v Speaker 3>As Korime Moro recently pointed out, there's like a few

1550
01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:00.800
<v Speaker 3>hundred people in the world that are that you know,

1551
01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:04.600
<v Speaker 3>have labs that are focusing on studying ants, and there's

1552
01:18:04.800 --> 01:18:08.239
<v Speaker 3>so many things that we don't know. And especially in

1553
01:18:08.239 --> 01:18:10.399
<v Speaker 3>the tropics. You know, wherever you go, there are ants

1554
01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:12.439
<v Speaker 3>and they are doing things that are running the world.

1555
01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:16.239
<v Speaker 3>And so it's hard to not discover cool things if

1556
01:18:16.279 --> 01:18:17.279
<v Speaker 3>you choose to look.

1557
01:18:18.479 --> 01:18:21.680
<v Speaker 2>And if you had to glean some self help information

1558
01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:24.800
<v Speaker 2>from ants, is there anything that ants have inspired you

1559
01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:27.279
<v Speaker 2>to do differently with your life or could inspire us

1560
01:18:27.279 --> 01:18:27.520
<v Speaker 2>to do.

1561
01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:32.119
<v Speaker 3>Within ant colonies, there's a lot of conflict and despite

1562
01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:38.840
<v Speaker 3>the reputation for having their act together and working really hard,

1563
01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:42.600
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of lazy ants that are waiting for

1564
01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:47.840
<v Speaker 3>other ants to do their job. And so I mean,

1565
01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:49.920
<v Speaker 3>I I think so I would think of ant call

1566
01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:51.880
<v Speaker 3>if you were to look at an ant colony, most

1567
01:18:51.880 --> 01:18:53.119
<v Speaker 3>ants aren't doing anything.

1568
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Really.

1569
01:18:54.520 --> 01:18:57.399
<v Speaker 3>For every ant that you see above ground doing something,

1570
01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:00.239
<v Speaker 3>there's ten ants like sitting on their ass doing nothing under.

1571
01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1572
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:04.479
<v Speaker 3>And so I think that's a good counter example for me.

1573
01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:07.239
<v Speaker 3>Like ants like instead of being the go to the

1574
01:19:07.239 --> 01:19:09.920
<v Speaker 3>antthouse sluggard, they work really hard blah blah blah. It's

1575
01:19:09.960 --> 01:19:12.760
<v Speaker 3>like no ants like are waiting for other ants to

1576
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:14.760
<v Speaker 3>do their job before they they can do theirs. They're

1577
01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:17.800
<v Speaker 3>they're like the opposite of being hard working, entrepreneurial, whatever,

1578
01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:20.279
<v Speaker 3>and so they're a counter example. That's that's how I

1579
01:19:20.359 --> 01:19:21.039
<v Speaker 3>learned from ants.

1580
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Does that make you work harder or chill more? No?

1581
01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:28.079
<v Speaker 3>I think I think I should learn from them that

1582
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.199
<v Speaker 3>I probably should do my own choose my own path,

1583
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:33.640
<v Speaker 3>and do my own thing rather than just try to

1584
01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:35.920
<v Speaker 3>perform the role that I think I'm supposed to be doing. Like,

1585
01:19:35.960 --> 01:19:38.199
<v Speaker 3>for instance, if my house is messy, it's because, well,

1586
01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:39.760
<v Speaker 3>my wife's waiting for me to do the dishes, and

1587
01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:41.399
<v Speaker 3>I'm waiting for her to do the dishes, so they

1588
01:19:41.399 --> 01:19:42.880
<v Speaker 3>don't get done. That's the kind of thing that may

1589
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:44.760
<v Speaker 3>or may not that I could kind of see happy

1590
01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:46.880
<v Speaker 3>in an ant colony where they follow the rules they

1591
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:49.399
<v Speaker 3>if the individual washing dishes isn't there at the moment,

1592
01:19:49.399 --> 01:19:51.000
<v Speaker 3>then it's not going to happen, right.

1593
01:19:51.760 --> 01:19:54.439
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny to think about lazy ants like making

1594
01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:57.239
<v Speaker 2>you take initiative. Yeah, which, by the way, I have

1595
01:19:57.279 --> 01:19:59.399
<v Speaker 2>a sink full of dirty dishes and I live alone.

1596
01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:05.279
<v Speaker 2>So this is the saddest thing of myself. I'm my

1597
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.399
<v Speaker 2>own lady, and this was so informative. I love this.

1598
01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:11.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I'm ever gonna look at ants the same.

1599
01:20:11.479 --> 01:20:14.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I already love them, but I'm definitely going

1600
01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:16.319
<v Speaker 2>to be more prone to just seeing where they're headed.

1601
01:20:16.760 --> 01:20:17.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you just watch them.

1602
01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:17.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean.

1603
01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:20.600
<v Speaker 3>So the thing is, if your kitchen is overrun with ants,

1604
01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:23.239
<v Speaker 3>you don't have to freak out and like wipe them

1605
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:26.199
<v Speaker 3>all away, because if you wait five more minutes, it's

1606
01:20:26.239 --> 01:20:28.600
<v Speaker 3>not going to get worse. Might as well just watch them, right,

1607
01:20:29.119 --> 01:20:30.039
<v Speaker 3>and then you knew com.

1608
01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for being here. This was dope.

1609
01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:33.119
<v Speaker 2>I loved it.

1610
01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.

1611
01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:38.000
<v Speaker 2>So ask smart people, stupid questions all you want, even

1612
01:20:38.079 --> 01:20:42.520
<v Speaker 2>if they seem like small inquiries. The answers can be mighty.

1613
01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Now to find Terry McGlynn on Twitter, he's at hormiga

1614
01:20:48.279 --> 01:20:51.279
<v Speaker 2>h O R M I g A almost positive I'm

1615
01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:55.119
<v Speaker 2>saying that wrong. Or he's at leaflitter dot org. He

1616
01:20:55.359 --> 01:21:00.000
<v Speaker 2>is great now. Ologies is at ologies on Twitter and Instagram.

1617
01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:04.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm Ali Ward with one L on both Twitter and Instagram.

1618
01:21:04.840 --> 01:21:08.399
<v Speaker 2>Do say hello, come and follow. For Ologies Merch, go

1619
01:21:08.560 --> 01:21:12.760
<v Speaker 2>to ologiesmerch dot com. There's a bunch of new fall

1620
01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:17.560
<v Speaker 2>pins and mugs and shirts and sweatshirts. Thank you Bonnie

1621
01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Dutch and Shannon Feltis for helping with all of that.

1622
01:21:21.359 --> 01:21:25.079
<v Speaker 2>If you post yourself in merch tagget ologies merch so

1623
01:21:25.119 --> 01:21:27.520
<v Speaker 2>I can find you and repost you on my Instagram,

1624
01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>thank you very much. I like to look at you

1625
01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:33.199
<v Speaker 2>wearing The things you can support the show for is

1626
01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:36.920
<v Speaker 2>low as a dollar a month at patreon dot com,

1627
01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:41.279
<v Speaker 2>slash Ologies twenty five cents an episode. The Ologies Facebook

1628
01:21:41.319 --> 01:21:44.560
<v Speaker 2>group is a party full of fine human beings. Thanks

1629
01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:48.840
<v Speaker 2>to admin's Hannahlippo and Aaron Talbot. Thank you to Stephen

1630
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Ray Morris, host of the per cast, and see Jurassic

1631
01:21:52.199 --> 01:21:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Right for all the edits you do to put the

1632
01:21:54.680 --> 01:21:58.560
<v Speaker 2>show together. Special thanks to doctor Teagan Wall for saying

1633
01:21:58.600 --> 01:22:02.479
<v Speaker 2>that male ants are called Uncle's, a joke for which

1634
01:22:02.520 --> 01:22:05.920
<v Speaker 2>she gave me permission to include. Theme song is by

1635
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Nick Thorburn. And if you stick around to the very end,

1636
01:22:11.079 --> 01:22:14.479
<v Speaker 2>you know that I tell you secret, and I will

1637
01:22:14.520 --> 01:22:16.960
<v Speaker 2>tell you right now. I'm recording this from an Airbnb

1638
01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:22.159
<v Speaker 2>in Seattle. My friend is getting married Ology's lepidopterologist Phil Taurus,

1639
01:22:22.840 --> 01:22:25.479
<v Speaker 2>and everyone in the house is asleep, so I'm like

1640
01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>whisper asiding downstairs, hoping I'm not going to wake anyone up.

1641
01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Ps phils fiance Celia bought him the Gucci loafers with

1642
01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:37.159
<v Speaker 2>the bugs on them we talked about at the end

1643
01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:39.760
<v Speaker 2>of his episode. I'm so happy, happily ever after it

1644
01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:42.720
<v Speaker 2>does exist. I will also tell you that there's a

1645
01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>bonus episode coming out soon that's an anniversary episode. Stephen

1646
01:22:46.760 --> 01:22:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Ray Morris asked me your questions that you submitted, and

1647
01:22:50.159 --> 01:22:53.039
<v Speaker 2>I guess my secret this week is I hope you

1648
01:22:53.479 --> 01:22:57.800
<v Speaker 2>like it. That sounds it's so desperate. I don't think

1649
01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:00.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a laugh riot. I think I was so sentimental

1650
01:23:00.880 --> 01:23:04.000
<v Speaker 2>talking about the anniversary of ologies and it's like how

1651
01:23:04.079 --> 01:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>much it means to me? So, just so you know,

1652
01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:10.960
<v Speaker 2>is it heartfelt? Very very yes. So that bonus episode

1653
01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:14.800
<v Speaker 2>will be out soon. Thank you as always for listening.

1654
01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:20.880
<v Speaker 2>High five an ant if you see one gently though. Okay,

1655
01:23:21.000 --> 01:23:35.880
<v Speaker 2>all right, bye bye, pacodermatologyology or do zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, pology, nanthology, zeriologyology.

1656
01:24:00.039 --> 01:24:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmm, because it's so awesome.