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<v Speaker 1>Well, whiskey, come and take my pains all right, Oh whiskey.

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<v Speaker 1>Why think alone when you can drink it all in

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<v Speaker 1>with Ricochet's three whiskey Happy Hour, Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward,

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<v Speaker 1>John You and the international woman of Mystery, Lucretia where.

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<v Speaker 2>They slapped it up and David, ain't you easy on

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<v Speaker 2>the shoulda tap?

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<v Speaker 3>Got agive me?

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<v Speaker 1>And let that? Well, folks, we are I want to

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<v Speaker 1>say live that's not really correct but for listeners, and

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have the live stream working. John and Lucretia

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<v Speaker 1>are sitting two feet apart from each other.

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<v Speaker 4>I haven't smacked him once.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, for the people who try to find

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<v Speaker 2>me after my death, I have my Apple tech.

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<v Speaker 1>Track it right. And you know, there's of course some

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<v Speaker 1>risks that not only will Lucretia reach over and smack

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<v Speaker 1>you some point, but you could catch her cooties John,

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<v Speaker 1>and so who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>But I feel like I'm in an episode of Breaking

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<v Speaker 2>Bad and Lucretia is going to bury me in the

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<v Speaker 2>desert out here in Arizona.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know what they say in casino, always dig

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<v Speaker 3>the hole first, because if you don't, somebody's didn't come along.

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<v Speaker 3>You'll be digging holes all night. You know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, now, why don't we just tell listeners what you

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<v Speaker 1>guys are? What brings you two guys together? Uh, since

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<v Speaker 1>you're not about.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you because I'm excited about it. So John

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<v Speaker 3>is here. It started out that John was coming to

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<v Speaker 3>speak to uh, mister Lucretia's intelligence intelligence studies. The actual

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<v Speaker 3>program is Intelligence and Information Operations Program, a class to

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<v Speaker 3>talk about his sundry things. And John you is such

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<v Speaker 3>a celebrity that it has ballooned and blossomed into a

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<v Speaker 3>major talk with under cover police officers of course, because

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<v Speaker 3>for security and whatnot.

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<v Speaker 4>And he's actually going to talk.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he can take him. But all he asked for

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<v Speaker 3>actually was the opportunity to be able to carry concealed Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 3>the even though the police are good friends, they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>allow me to do that, So they're going to be

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<v Speaker 3>there undercover.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, I'm looking for Lucretia's handbag because I want to

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<v Speaker 2>see the guns she must have in it. You left

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<v Speaker 2>your guns in the car, Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, look, things are getting kind of I

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<v Speaker 1>mean to be semi serious for a minute. I mean, John,

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<v Speaker 1>you and I are around. But I'm assuming you guys

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<v Speaker 1>have seen the news that Antifa turned up at Berkeley

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<v Speaker 1>in force a couple of days ago.

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<v Speaker 2>I was teaching that day and we were oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I was on campus, but it did as far as

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<v Speaker 2>the law school. But I know if you were there, Steve,

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<v Speaker 2>you would have gone down, of course in person, to

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, I miss the insanity. But I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I hope they don't block traffic on my way home.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to have to run over more people

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<v Speaker 2>than I usually do when I drive in downtown Berkeley.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I know they I mean, you saw that

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<v Speaker 2>our friend Harmeat Dylan, head of the Civil Rights Division,

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<v Speaker 2>is announced that the Justice Department has announced an investigation,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know there's questions about whether the security is

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<v Speaker 2>adequate for people to exercise their free speech rights.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, right, Well, I mean, you know, borrow a

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<v Speaker 1>statement of an old friend of mine. I would think

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<v Speaker 1>that the only thing to protect Antifa in Arizona would

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<v Speaker 1>be the game laws. But I don't know, right, But

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<v Speaker 1>who knows well. So, first of all, so this is

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<v Speaker 1>a little unusual episode since where you guys are there together,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll see how that goes. I did have a

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<v Speaker 1>few people tell me they listened to last week's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>which we taped live in the lobby of the Washington

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<v Speaker 1>Hilton in a you know, sort of a random fashion

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<v Speaker 1>of who was available, and they said, well, that was interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>but that was strange, and you know, is it normally

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<v Speaker 1>like that? And I said, of course, oh no, it's

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<v Speaker 1>usually much worse. But that was rather gonzo. And maybe

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<v Speaker 1>we'll come back to all that. Look, we got some

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<v Speaker 1>serious things. Well there's always serious things going on, but

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to follow the headlines today exactly, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to just plant a sequel. Well, Sidney

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<v Speaker 1>Sweeney's back in the news, and it's always fun to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to mention her.

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<v Speaker 3>But also, wait a minute, I want to point something

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<v Speaker 3>out here. So Sidney Sweeney lost thirty pounds in order

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<v Speaker 3>to be able to well, she gained thirty pounds in

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<v Speaker 3>order to be able to be the be in the

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<v Speaker 3>movie Christy, and she lost back the thirty pounds seven weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>All I want you guys to know is and she

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<v Speaker 3>talked about how she went from a size twenty seven

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<v Speaker 3>back down to a size twenty three. And I want

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<v Speaker 3>you all to know that Sidney and I have something

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<v Speaker 3>in common. I wear the size twenty seven that she

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<v Speaker 3>wires when she's thirty pounds heavyer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but the difference is while she was just playing

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<v Speaker 1>a boxer temporarily, you do that at three sixty five

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four seven. I'll just put it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>She's in a movie as she plays a one boxer.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, really yeah yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 3>You would never know what was her just looking at her,

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<v Speaker 3>not even because she's thirty pounds heavier, but because she's

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<v Speaker 3>got dark, curly hair and yeah, it's all.

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<v Speaker 1>Much yeah yeah, And apparently the movie did very poorly.

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<v Speaker 1>That's opening box office weekend. But interesting she picked up.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, okay, we'll spend twenty seconds on this. All

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<v Speaker 1>the sensation about her interview with a Gentleman's quarterly where

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<v Speaker 1>she humiliated the interviewer. That's happening a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh oh yeah, it was so good.

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<v Speaker 3>So imagine if I was at that age, mature and

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<v Speaker 3>had the same attitude as I was today. That's Sydney

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<v Speaker 3>Sweeney in that interview. She just the lady says, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, are you sure you don't want to apologize

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<v Speaker 3>for making those comments about your jeans and you know

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of people to you know, anytime I actually

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<v Speaker 3>feel I need to explain myself about something, I can

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<v Speaker 3>assure you I'll do so.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah and she oh, and she had this wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>dismissive look on her face because she is a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a talented Hollywood performer.

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<v Speaker 3>My my favorite one, by the way, my favorite meme

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<v Speaker 3>on that was the obnoxious chick from MSNBC asks her,

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<v Speaker 3>you mean happy holidays, right?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Then, and Sydney Sweety's in this you know, Santa Baby

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<v Speaker 3>costume right that.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I have a whole collection of those memes. But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, needless to say, when they finally make the

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<v Speaker 1>movie of the three Whiskey Happy Hour, uh, Sidney Sweeney

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<v Speaker 1>will obviously play you, Lucretia, and then John. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you've already been played in at least one movie I

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<v Speaker 1>can think of.

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<v Speaker 2>And so like twenty year old Korean you know, Maile.

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<v Speaker 3>After I told you in the report, I was offended

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<v Speaker 3>because they made the guy instead of this handsome squash

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<v Speaker 3>playing worked out, they made him kind of a dopey,

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<v Speaker 3>little chubby Korean guy and it really busters.

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<v Speaker 2>That is most Korean guy that was.

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<v Speaker 4>I was very offended by.

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<v Speaker 1>That stereotypes, right, oh god right?

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, you know Don Rickles is no longer.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it was Don Rickles. And you want to

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<v Speaker 1>find the you want to find the human equivalent of

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<v Speaker 1>the Swedish chef from the Muppets.

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<v Speaker 3>That's always the one that's practically your avatars.

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<v Speaker 1>I know exactly. So I'll just say last word on

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<v Speaker 1>Sidney Sweeney. I've seen a couple of interviews with her

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<v Speaker 1>which makes me think she's supremely intelligent, and only because

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<v Speaker 1>of the way she discussed how she thinks about her

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<v Speaker 1>career and business opportunities and other things. So, and she's

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<v Speaker 1>willing to take risks like playing this role, but you

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't expect from what she's done before. You know, rom Comms,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know some of the White Lotus she was in,

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<v Speaker 1>which I never watched because I don't have time, So

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<v Speaker 1>you know, keep your eye on her.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>The other bitter story, a little more serious, uh, in

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<v Speaker 1>ideological terms, is what I'm calling Helen's legs, and I

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<v Speaker 1>mean Helen Andrews, and I am.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never obsessed with this article. Well, but the thing

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<v Speaker 2>is a feminization.

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<v Speaker 1>Of well, I just make this obsert Well, right. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean there there continues to be a lot of chatter

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<v Speaker 1>about it, and this is now a month old article,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you know Ross doubt that had a podcast

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<v Speaker 1>about her with somebody disputing it and greading some and

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<v Speaker 1>lots more secondary commentary on substack by all the you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of different substackers. And I'm starting to think,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I know what's going to happen next. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think she's I expect she's going to write a

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<v Speaker 1>book on this. If not, some publisher is going to

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<v Speaker 1>beat a path through her door, and that book will

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<v Speaker 1>be the next closing of the American mind, in other words,

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<v Speaker 1>a big public publishing sensation from the right that will

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<v Speaker 1>then spark a whole lot of discussion and debate for

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<v Speaker 1>months or years. And the reason I think that is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not quite a historical analogy, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Bloom's famous book, which took everyone to my surprise, began

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<v Speaker 1>as a magazine article in National Review in nineteen eighty three.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember the article was the cover story. Jack talked

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<v Speaker 1>about it all.

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<v Speaker 3>A bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, but Bloom and Helen Andrews have so much in common, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Well, no, actually, he's a pull up,

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<v Speaker 2>professor of political theory at the University of Chicago, and

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<v Speaker 2>his book had nothing like you know, his book was

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<v Speaker 2>like most people write it, probab didn't understand like ten

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<v Speaker 2>percent of it. Well, I'll come back to that polarization

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, just feelings people have about society. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>i'll slow down you too, political theory in it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, when i'll slow down you two. You know that

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<v Speaker 1>book began as an article in National Review. Jaffo actually

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<v Speaker 1>brought to class and talked about it. It was the

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<v Speaker 1>semester I had with him, the first semester I had

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<v Speaker 1>with him. And then lo and behold, five years later

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<v Speaker 1>he's got or four years later, he has a book

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<v Speaker 1>out about it because somebody said you should do a

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<v Speaker 1>book on this. Uh, if you know the story. Simon

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<v Speaker 1>and Schuster printed ten thousand copies and was hopeful they'd

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<v Speaker 1>be able to sell those, but they weren't sure, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course it becomes this monster bestseller. Now why did

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<v Speaker 1>it become a best seller? Well, a couple of things,

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<v Speaker 1>but one of them was he had that somewhat ridiculous

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<v Speaker 1>chapter on rock and roll music where he obsessed with

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<v Speaker 1>Mick Jagger and Michael Jackson. It doesn't read very well,

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<v Speaker 1>but a lot of people seized on that. But then

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<v Speaker 1>there was the very long and very very serious chapter

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<v Speaker 1>towards the end, which was called from Plato's Republic to

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<v Speaker 1>Heidegger's Rector's Address, although he put the hidigger in German

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<v Speaker 1>and that was very dense and difficult, and nobody got

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<v Speaker 1>through that, and it was not included on the audiobook's

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<v Speaker 1>version of the book. So you had everything from soup

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<v Speaker 1>to nuts in that book, and you know, it caught

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<v Speaker 1>everyone by surprise, including Bloom. I could see Helen's book

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<v Speaker 1>and probably she'll throw in something outrageous. That's the equivalent

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<v Speaker 1>of taking after Michael Jackson and Mick Jagger, and then

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<v Speaker 1>we're off to.

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<v Speaker 4>The racist after Boomers.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, but that's an easy target now exactly. Well, actually,

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<v Speaker 1>well maybe that leads us then to our first a

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<v Speaker 1>serious topic on the agenda. So to put it bluntly, Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>d C. Where I am right now is in the

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<v Speaker 1>grip of gropersm Do you know what grouperism? John is? John?

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<v Speaker 1>You probably don't.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the followers of Nick fun Days.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that right? It's kind of like it. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it goes beyond him. I'm not sure I could define it,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's definitely.

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<v Speaker 4>After the stupid frog.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's it was, see right, and that's been around

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<v Speaker 1>a while now then I've ignored that. And but you

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<v Speaker 1>know there's a I'm calling this, by the way, new

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<v Speaker 1>right four point five, and I could go through one

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<v Speaker 1>through four and why it's four point five, but I won't.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to be doing that on Friday up at

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<v Speaker 1>Yale for the Buckley Institute.

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<v Speaker 2>And.

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<v Speaker 1>Rodreer wrote a substack note because he was here over

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<v Speaker 1>the weekend along with the Hungarian delegation visiting President Trump

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<v Speaker 1>and Vice President Vance. And he wrote a long substack

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<v Speaker 1>here a couple days ago. That's getting a ton of attention.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a good writer and a good reporter, and he's saying, gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>we got a ton of these gropers, and by most

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<v Speaker 1>estimations of in fact, there's an ambulance going behind me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you can hear it. I'm on

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<v Speaker 1>Connecticut Avenues. Okay, good. Anyway, he's saying that, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what we're told is And the backdrop here, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>is this the STM and dron at the Heritage Foundation

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<v Speaker 1>and Kevin Roberts going on right now, that's also gripping

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<v Speaker 1>the town. And so the point is is he says,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like thirty to forty percent of the young

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<v Speaker 1>conservatives working on Capitol Hill and for the think tanks

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<v Speaker 1>and the media organizations are you know, Flente's adjacent. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>put it at least that way, right, And they like

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<v Speaker 1>Tucker Carlson, and they hate the baby boomers. They have

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<v Speaker 1>contempt for Ronald Reagan and William F. Buckley and you

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<v Speaker 1>know boomer conservatism, and the twitter wars right now on

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<v Speaker 1>this are quite intense, I'll just put it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, if you didn't know that that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's the right figure, that seems like a real exaggeration

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<v Speaker 2>to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't know. I mean, he said, that's just

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking to people around town. And yeah, I'm a

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<v Speaker 1>little suspicious too, but I think I do think this

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<v Speaker 1>is a five alarm fire because well, I mentioned to

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<v Speaker 1>you guys, I mentioned on the Ricochet podcast that these

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<v Speaker 1>really bright students I met at Mississippi a month ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I really like them. They've read stuff, they're smart, they're

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<v Speaker 1>going places, and several of them said, we kind of

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<v Speaker 1>think Nick Fins might be the successor to Charlie Kirk.

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, but you know what about the crazy

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<v Speaker 1>You know what he's said about Hitler, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>Eddie's an anti Semitic and all the rest of that.

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<v Speaker 1>And they said, oh, yeah, that's kind of crazy stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>But we like that he's outrageous. And then he's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just rejects all the conventions. And so a key sentence

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<v Speaker 1>in Rod's piece was, h this is not people who

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<v Speaker 1>are looking for an end of wokery and return to normal.

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<v Speaker 1>They're looking for revenge. And I don't that may or

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<v Speaker 1>may not be an overstatement. I didn't get that from

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<v Speaker 1>the students I talked to at Mississippi, but they certainly there.

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<v Speaker 1>If they're out for revenge, they're taking you out against

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<v Speaker 1>old boomer conservatives like me and you. I suppose to right.

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<v Speaker 2>These people, as far as I understand their views, are

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<v Speaker 2>ignorant and racist and misogynists and ill deformed, fairly educated,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think are much smaller proportioned. I've met no

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<v Speaker 2>students who say good things about Nick flent Days or

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<v Speaker 2>any of these gropers. I mean, it sounds to me

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<v Speaker 2>like they're these people sitting in their basements of their houses,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, posting and engaging in social media, which has

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<v Speaker 2>effective exaggerating how many people you think really agree with

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<v Speaker 2>them because they post a lot. But that doesn't I

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<v Speaker 2>mean thirty or forty percent. I think that. I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's might be three or four percent or five percent.

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<v Speaker 2>I've not met anyone who takes these views seriously. Amongst

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<v Speaker 2>the young people. They might like that, you know, he's

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<v Speaker 2>raising a ruckus, and they might like a chaos going

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<v Speaker 2>to the Heritage Foundation. But actually people who agree with

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<v Speaker 2>his views, which I take it he thinks Hitler was cool,

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<v Speaker 2>and that he thinks Stalin is interesting and Maw too,

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose, And I mean they actually go. I've not

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<v Speaker 2>heard young people say they actually agree with these things

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<v Speaker 2>I have.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't mean I necessarily disagree with everything you said.

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<v Speaker 3>I have actually talked with quite a few young people.

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<v Speaker 3>And you guys probably don't remember this. It might have

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<v Speaker 3>been with Richard epste We were on a podcast and

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<v Speaker 3>I mentioned this, Oh, I think.

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<v Speaker 4>It was Amy. It was Amy Wax And I.

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<v Speaker 3>Mentioned that there's a at my university, there's a course

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<v Speaker 3>on the Holocaust that teaches that it was all the

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<v Speaker 3>Jews fault, really really, and I guess what I would

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<v Speaker 3>argue when you said that they're ignorant, and then you

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<v Speaker 3>said that they're racist and anti Semitic. They are racists

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<v Speaker 3>and anti Semitic because they're ignorant, because they, as Reagan

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<v Speaker 3>would say, they know so much that isn't true true,

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<v Speaker 3>and that that's the failure that and you know, let's

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<v Speaker 3>give some credit to conservatives for at least taking seriously

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<v Speaker 3>the idea that however large that percentage of call it

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<v Speaker 3>the conservative, the right wing, whatever, however large that is,

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<v Speaker 3>we don't just ignore it, thank goodness, or we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to find ourselves with, you know, a Nick Flintes type

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<v Speaker 3>becoming mayor of New York City before you get it right.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's, you know, all of this angst over

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<v Speaker 3>Tucker Carlson and Nick Flintes. I find all of that

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<v Speaker 3>stuff highly, highly objectionable. But at least, you know, conservatives

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<v Speaker 3>actually look at the views of each other and and

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<v Speaker 3>do demand a certain kind of call it homogeneity on

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<v Speaker 3>these views.

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<v Speaker 4>We tolerate Libertarians.

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<v Speaker 3>John and I were having a really interesting discussion about

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<v Speaker 3>libertarianism before this. Sorry the Gora, but I was telling

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<v Speaker 3>John that I saw this. I think it was the website,

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<v Speaker 3>the huge banner on the website of the Colorado Libertarian

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<v Speaker 3>Party abolish Ice.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you take at all.

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<v Speaker 3>These nuts that come under the big tent on the

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<v Speaker 3>conservative side. But we at least pushed back on some

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<v Speaker 3>of these things, and hopefully we make those ignorant young

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<v Speaker 3>people who are resentful about what they've been through. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's white males don't go to college anymore. Why not

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<v Speaker 3>just because college is a waste of time, as we've

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<v Speaker 3>all learned recently, but because they.

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<v Speaker 4>Weren't welcome, right, they weren't welcome.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, and if they got there, what were

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<v Speaker 3>they going to study? And even if they went into

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<v Speaker 3>a stem field, they'd be like one of my kids

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<v Speaker 3>who went there and was told on the first day

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<v Speaker 3>and his physics first day with his physics advisors, that

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<v Speaker 3>your only purpose here is to make sure that you

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<v Speaker 3>may get marginalized students through this program. Your success depends

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<v Speaker 3>on this, you know. So they have a reason to

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<v Speaker 3>be resentful. Yeah, and we didn't protect them when we

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<v Speaker 3>should have.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, let me give let me give one Crusius

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<v Speaker 2>said that I agree with is that you have someone

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<v Speaker 2>on the Democrats side who's now the right. He's the

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<v Speaker 2>mayor of the largest city of the city with the

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<v Speaker 2>largest number of Jews outside of Israel, and he's clearly

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<v Speaker 2>anti Semitic, and his party in the end embraced him.

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<v Speaker 2>And because they don't, I think that's there. They don't

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<v Speaker 2>police is the wrong word, but they don't, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cultivate what's right and wrong amongst their members. And the

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<v Speaker 2>one healthy thing I think out of all this is

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<v Speaker 2>that you see a number of leading people coming out

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<v Speaker 2>and condemning what Nick Flin takes thinks. Tucker carlsrom for

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<v Speaker 2>giving him such a softball interview, and he and Kevin

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<v Speaker 2>Roberts for giving Pucker pass. I think that's entirely healthy

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<v Speaker 2>and good for conservative movement. That's out in public and

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<v Speaker 2>we can have a debate about it. And yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>think people, you know, you know that this view should

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<v Speaker 2>be stifled, not for First Amendment, not stifled in first Ammican,

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<v Speaker 2>stifled because it's wrong. Right, The Democrats are very happy

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<v Speaker 2>to have antison Mites in their political coalition.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I think that's quite right now.

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<v Speaker 3>Sean Davis, of whom I'm a huge fan, by the way,

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<v Speaker 3>but he can be a little extreme.

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<v Speaker 4>From time to time.

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<v Speaker 3>Sean Davis from the Federalists says that this whole reaction

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<v Speaker 3>by the you know, the donors that these think tanks

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<v Speaker 3>and on and on and on, is really because they're

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<v Speaker 3>they're desperate to turn the Republican Party away from Mega

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<v Speaker 3>to ruin any chance that JD Vance becomes the heir

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<v Speaker 3>apparent and and get the GOP back on its country

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<v Speaker 3>club and Chamber of commerce routes where it belongs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now I've heard that, and I I think that's overdone.

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<v Speaker 1>But let me offer I.

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<v Speaker 3>Like to put the ideas out there right.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't think it's wholly wrong. And let's hold

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<v Speaker 1>the JD answer for a moment because that's and we

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<v Speaker 1>maybe end on that. But let me give you an

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<v Speaker 1>end of one, in other words, one data point, first

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<v Speaker 1>for John's benefit, but also to show that the framing

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<v Speaker 1>of this it's a young male problem, right for all

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that are quite right. And that's my driver

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<v Speaker 1>in Mississippi on now four trips to and from the

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<v Speaker 1>airport over this last year. She's graduated but working at

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<v Speaker 1>the Declaration of Independent Center. She's really smart. She knows

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<v Speaker 1>stuff she's a good evangelical Christian, but but young lady, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And she says, yeah, I kind of like nickquentn taste.

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, okay, why and yeah, he said some

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<v Speaker 1>crazy stuff and all that, and she's just very sweet,

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<v Speaker 1>and she says, but you know, I really don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>why we give so much money to Israel. And by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, I don't None of the students there struck

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<v Speaker 1>me as having a rop of anti Semitism. There's none

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<v Speaker 1>of that there, but I think in this particular by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, then John I went and explained why we did.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's the whole history of it, and this is a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit like a Ukraine argument. We're developing military technologies

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<v Speaker 1>jointly that benefit us and that we're using and they

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<v Speaker 1>buy our stuff and so forth. And at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of my explanation, that was just on that part of it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I've never heard that before. That's a good explanation.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're following. And I think we've assumed that we

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<v Speaker 1>conservatives Republicans didn't need to make this case. Well now

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<v Speaker 1>actually we do. And then the second thing I talked about,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is the week before Vance went there for

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<v Speaker 1>his big appearance, and if you remember the highlight reel,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a student that got up, had a maga

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<v Speaker 1>hat on and he was asked a very anti Israel

420
00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:48.079
<v Speaker 1>question happed with the sentence at his last sentence was

421
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:50.119
<v Speaker 1>and by the way, you know, they're a country that's

422
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.640
<v Speaker 1>not even our religion. And I did we Okay, I

423
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.039
<v Speaker 1>didn't know if I had with you or not. But

424
00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:59.119
<v Speaker 1>the point is Ronald Reagan would have said we called

425
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.519
<v Speaker 1>through Judeo Christian tradition for a reason. Vance didn't do

426
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.240
<v Speaker 1>any of that. He just said an America first explanation,

427
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.920
<v Speaker 1>which I think actually played into what's driving all this.

428
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.359
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of foreign sources, other bad faith

429
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.359
<v Speaker 1>actors have been insidiously trying to reach people like some

430
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>of these students I met there and elsewhere.

431
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:21.079
<v Speaker 2>I think our argument has to be stronger than that,

432
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.359
<v Speaker 2>because I guess you can make that argument right, which

433
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I've made, about why Israel is a good ally of ours,

434
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.359
<v Speaker 2>regardless of it's exactly just significance.

435
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that.

436
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I personally think people who don't want Israel to exist,

437
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:40.319
<v Speaker 2>and so they're saying, oh, you know, they're against Zionism.

438
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:40.920
<v Speaker 1>What are they called it?

439
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.160
<v Speaker 2>That is anti Semitic too. So there's this idea that

440
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:49.079
<v Speaker 2>you saw in these questions and the conversation, you know,

441
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>with your new girlfriend from Mississippi, whatever her name is,

442
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:58.359
<v Speaker 2>that there's something it's okay to say, I'm not a Zionist,

443
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:01.480
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not anti semi sub that it's okay for

444
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.799
<v Speaker 2>me to think Israel should not exist as a state,

445
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not anti Semitic. That's totally different than saying, Okay,

446
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.039
<v Speaker 2>well I don't think that. Now, who's been a great

447
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.119
<v Speaker 2>prime minister or I would have run the gods of

448
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 2>war differently. You know, those are questions, you know, of policy,

449
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.200
<v Speaker 2>But I think there's this theme now that's emerging. You

450
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:21.839
<v Speaker 2>know that Israel shouldn't be a state. But I'm not

451
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.680
<v Speaker 2>anti Semitic for believing that. I think that's wrong.

452
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I do.

453
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.039
<v Speaker 2>You don't hear people coming out challenging that view like

454
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.480
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, Jade van Stein, come out and challenge that view.

455
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And you know I was talking. I was talking to

456
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.960
<v Speaker 2>a liberal student who said, what's so wrong about saying

457
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:42.559
<v Speaker 2>from the river to the sea Palestine shall be free?

458
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:45.720
<v Speaker 2>It just means that everybody should get along and live together. God,

459
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I was like, do you realize what territory this is

460
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the river.

461
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:50.279
<v Speaker 1>To the sea.

462
00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.599
<v Speaker 2>If it's Palestine, that means Israel actually can't exist because

463
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.319
<v Speaker 2>that's the entire state is Israel. A lot of young

464
00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>people think think this, that the state of Israel has

465
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.440
<v Speaker 2>no legitimate right to exist. I think we should harder

466
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.920
<v Speaker 2>on all those people who think that are really useful

467
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:07.599
<v Speaker 2>idiots for anti Semitism.

468
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 1>What's the only country you know? The answer this what's

469
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the only country in the Middle East where Arabs get

470
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.279
<v Speaker 1>to vote in free elections? It's called Israel.

471
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:17.759
<v Speaker 2>To the student, if you will behind the veil of

472
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 2>ignorance or in the state of nature, and you knew

473
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>you were going to be Arab, and you didn't know

474
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:24.400
<v Speaker 2>where you were going to be born, you would hope

475
00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:26.759
<v Speaker 2>you would be born in Israel. Well that's good, that's

476
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:28.240
<v Speaker 2>a good Arab country, right.

477
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, although I hate even leaving the door open a

478
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.000
<v Speaker 1>crack sneaking rolls in his veil of ignance. But oh

479
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 1>that's okay, all right, yeah, okay. Well, now, speaking of

480
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:44.839
<v Speaker 1>libertarians to change gears, our friend Richard Epstein has what

481
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 1>he's written this article about, Oh, the unitary executive theory

482
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 1>threatens to eat up the independent judiciary, and this is terrible.

483
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:55.880
<v Speaker 1>And maybe John, you're going to or have already done

484
00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.839
<v Speaker 1>a law talk with Richard about this question. The part

485
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.599
<v Speaker 1>I thought the mean, I thought, this is John, youugh

486
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.440
<v Speaker 1>bate was where he said there's very little textual support

487
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.519
<v Speaker 1>for the unitary executive in the constitution. I think I'm

488
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.759
<v Speaker 1>gonna turnover to you. But I think what we have

489
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.039
<v Speaker 1>here at Lucretia is this is a proxy debate between

490
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Hobbs who is John, and Adam Smith, who is Richard.

491
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 1>And because Richard is pure libertarian and so I don't know,

492
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the article is dense about the cases

493
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.000
<v Speaker 1>going back to the eighteen fifties, and I got kind

494
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.240
<v Speaker 1>of bored with it in hurry. But I do think

495
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was quite wrong headed.

496
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.480
<v Speaker 3>Actually, John gave gave me an excellent sort of summary

497
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:38.319
<v Speaker 3>of the article.

498
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, give sure, go ahead. John.

499
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.839
<v Speaker 4>Why it is that Richard came to this.

500
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think so. One thing is I

501
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:48.680
<v Speaker 2>think he's wrong about the text. And most of the article,

502
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.200
<v Speaker 2>as you said, Steve, was a strange technical discussion of

503
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.440
<v Speaker 2>not even the executive branch, but of these weird courts

504
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.640
<v Speaker 2>that Congress has created called Article two courts, which are

505
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:02.839
<v Speaker 2>not federal Article three one Article one courts. Article three

506
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:04.759
<v Speaker 2>courts are the ones that we know and love, like

507
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.240
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court. Right, but people will be shocked to

508
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.039
<v Speaker 2>know most cases under federal law, like social security benefit

509
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.200
<v Speaker 2>disputes and things like this, get heard by these courts

510
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.680
<v Speaker 2>which are not really federal courts. They're handled by these

511
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.000
<v Speaker 2>fake judges, and they're called articles. We call them Article

512
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>one courts because.

513
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.599
<v Speaker 1>That would be just give an example. Isn't the Court

514
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:27.079
<v Speaker 1>of Federal claims an Article one court claims a tax court?

515
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:31.200
<v Speaker 2>But then number immigration courts are the best example. These

516
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.799
<v Speaker 2>are people who do not have lifetime tenure, their salary

517
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.680
<v Speaker 2>can be reduced, they don't have judicial independence.

518
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 3>And before you go on, I just don't have it

519
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:41.359
<v Speaker 3>in front of me. But the one line that he

520
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.319
<v Speaker 3>threw in there was, of course, their their development was

521
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.440
<v Speaker 3>not constitutional. It was haphazard. And he had a funny

522
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:51.559
<v Speaker 3>turn of phrase that he said. In other words, this

523
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.759
<v Speaker 3>was just sort of thrown at us, and we accepted it.

524
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:56.079
<v Speaker 3>But now, of course we have to bow down and

525
00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 3>realize that our constitutional fall apart without it.

526
00:26:58.440 --> 00:26:59.559
<v Speaker 4>Go ahead John Well.

527
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:04.839
<v Speaker 2>So one thing is Richard's a libertarian, and so libertarians

528
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>traditionally like ineffective government, right, They don't like to have

529
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 2>an effective executive branch. They would prefer Congress do very

530
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:16.319
<v Speaker 2>little and a very powerful judiciary because they want the

531
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:21.240
<v Speaker 2>judiciary to protect individual rights against the government and against majorities.

532
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Right.

533
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:26.440
<v Speaker 2>They also fear just majorities, especially because majorities trample on

534
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.880
<v Speaker 2>individual liberties. So Richard's argument, you know, when you look

535
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.039
<v Speaker 2>at it, is basically just fitting into the traditional libertarian

536
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:39.279
<v Speaker 2>approach to government. But the second thing is he then

537
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:42.720
<v Speaker 2>overlays us with this weird approach to constitutional interpretation. He's

538
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.920
<v Speaker 2>not an originalist, he's not a textualist either. He is

539
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.880
<v Speaker 2>actually very close to what you may think of it as

540
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.039
<v Speaker 2>like a history and tradition guy. So when he talks

541
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.880
<v Speaker 2>about these weird article on courts, he just as Lucretia says,

542
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 2>he just accepts them because they've been around a long time.

543
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Which is strange because he doesn't have that same attitude

544
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>to the executive branch, which he thinks must be stripped

545
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.640
<v Speaker 2>down to some magical eighteenth century, you know, tiny executive.

546
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 1>But he accepts.

547
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.119
<v Speaker 2>So we've had these debates about affirmative action, and I

548
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.440
<v Speaker 2>give him a really hard time. See supports race based

549
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 2>affirmative action. It's been around a long time, and it

550
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, things that have been a long time constitutionally

551
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:24.119
<v Speaker 2>have some claim to permanence, which I just think that's

552
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:28.480
<v Speaker 2>completely wrong because why writing down the constitution that quick question.

553
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.119
<v Speaker 1>On that does that? Does his view differ in any

554
00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:34.519
<v Speaker 1>substantial way from just reliance interests, which is often comes

555
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:34.920
<v Speaker 1>into play.

556
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not so much narrow idea about Okay, Starry decisive,

557
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.519
<v Speaker 2>but this is just you know, it's like treating the

558
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Constitution as if it were just the common law and

559
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:45.440
<v Speaker 2>you just build on it and build on it, you

560
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 2>never go back to the original beginning. And then the

561
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:50.240
<v Speaker 2>last point is the one you suggest to see, the

562
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:54.720
<v Speaker 2>idea that there's no textual foundation for the unitary executive

563
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.799
<v Speaker 2>is just exactly right when the Constitution says, right, the

564
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.200
<v Speaker 2>executive power has vested in the pre and then it

565
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.839
<v Speaker 2>gives them the commander chief power and the take care clause.

566
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like, what what what part of it

567
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.119
<v Speaker 2>is not justifying?

568
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean he has a throw off line about Locke

569
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.640
<v Speaker 3>in there too, as if somehow Locke says something about.

570
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.079
<v Speaker 4>It, but who cares. Let me ask you a question.

571
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:20.160
<v Speaker 3>You and I actually believe that the the the beginning

572
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:23.200
<v Speaker 3>of Article two that says the executive power shall be

573
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.880
<v Speaker 3>vested in as compared to the beginning of Article one,

574
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:31.240
<v Speaker 3>which says the legislative powers hearing granted, But that he

575
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:34.400
<v Speaker 3>and granted that's the hearing granted. Okay, I'm but but

576
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.799
<v Speaker 3>I have a minor point here. Article three begins, the

577
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:43.440
<v Speaker 3>judicial power shall be vested in. So how is it

578
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 3>we are not arguing that all of these Article one

579
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:49.799
<v Speaker 3>courts in and of themselves are unconstitutional.

580
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>No, that's exactly rightly a cretia. This is why Richard

581
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.160
<v Speaker 2>doesn't like the constitutional text, because if you actually read

582
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:02.200
<v Speaker 2>the constitutional text, he would be utterly wrong because he's saying, oh,

583
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:04.599
<v Speaker 2>the executive power of being vested in the president. That's

584
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:08.359
<v Speaker 2>just ceremonial language that has no substance. But Article three

585
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.160
<v Speaker 2>says the judicial power is vested in the Supreme Court. Right,

586
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:16.319
<v Speaker 2>that sentence is the only sense that really justifies judicial review,

587
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:20.200
<v Speaker 2>justifies the independence of the Article three courts in their

588
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 2>power over certain classes of cases. Is why the Congress

589
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 2>can't just take cases away from the Supreme Court. Whenever

590
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.279
<v Speaker 2>it feels like the claim of you know, this judiciary

591
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:33.359
<v Speaker 2>is an independent, equal branch comes from the same exact language.

592
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.480
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, Richard would say, oh no, that vesting of

593
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 2>the judicial powers undermined by the history of these fake courts.

594
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, right, he was like, oh love,

595
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.559
<v Speaker 2>but the same language an Article two has no meaning

596
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:51.319
<v Speaker 2>at all, and we can reduce executive branch to basically

597
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, a president at a desk with

598
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>a pencil in the White House and no substance of

599
00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.079
<v Speaker 2>powers at all. Now we gotta have Richard on the show,

600
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure he could speak for thirty minutes straight

601
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:05.039
<v Speaker 2>about why he's right. So this is cause, he said,

602
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:06.559
<v Speaker 2>he wrote a book about it. I called it up

603
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 2>out of library. He says, the constitution is we have

604
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:13.319
<v Speaker 2>a constitutional convention. By not convention, isn't a meeting, but

605
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.720
<v Speaker 2>conventions like just things. The way we do things, he

606
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:20.559
<v Speaker 2>calls us exactly, he calls us the prescriptive constitution. We

607
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>do things which are good policy. They might be unconstitutional,

608
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.200
<v Speaker 2>but we accept them. And so another example he would

609
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.279
<v Speaker 2>use would be the independence of the Federal Reserve Bank.

610
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:37.039
<v Speaker 2>He said it doesn't make sense under the Constitution, but

611
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.759
<v Speaker 2>it's just such a good idea. We've accepted it and

612
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:42.680
<v Speaker 2>now we have to keep it because it's so efficient.

613
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:44.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, maybe it's a good idea.

614
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.119
<v Speaker 4>Well, I would.

615
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.640
<v Speaker 3>Say that, however, that this, you know, we're kind of

616
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.359
<v Speaker 3>making a little fun of Richard and don't mean too,

617
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 3>because he's obviously very serious.

618
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Call no, no, no, no, I mean to I don't.

619
00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:00.039
<v Speaker 3>But here's this is actually an important question because the

620
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:03.640
<v Speaker 3>context of the article you should probably link to it, Steve.

621
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:06.359
<v Speaker 3>The context of the article is the Supreme Court needs

622
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.880
<v Speaker 3>to reign in all of these needs to reign in

623
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.640
<v Speaker 3>Trump and.

624
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.279
<v Speaker 4>At least uphold all of these.

625
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Other court decisions that have tried to reign in the

626
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.359
<v Speaker 3>executive power. And that's the context of the article, which

627
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.240
<v Speaker 3>is very important and one of the things that you

628
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:28.920
<v Speaker 3>I think we have to give credit to the Supreme Court.

629
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:33.079
<v Speaker 3>Maybe not Katangi, although Katangi came through last week.

630
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:34.960
<v Speaker 4>Let's get credit where credits do.

631
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:42.680
<v Speaker 3>They are indeed trying to separate what the Constitution says

632
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.519
<v Speaker 3>about executive power, even what their prior decision said about

633
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:51.480
<v Speaker 3>executive powers, from Trump and realize that it is as

634
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Marshall would say, it is a constitution that we are expounding.

635
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.960
<v Speaker 3>It is not the Trump presidency. And I hope to

636
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:02.680
<v Speaker 3>God that Robert he seems to have so far, keeps

637
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 3>on the straight and narrow and doesn't cave because of

638
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 3>all the criticisms that are coming about coming against the

639
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 3>Court because they're taking Trump's side in things, because it really,

640
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:20.759
<v Speaker 3>I mean, Trump is making some really important corrections to

641
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:25.559
<v Speaker 3>our constitutional system, not out of any because he wants

642
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 3>to be Hitler or an Autocrat, but because those corrections

643
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.480
<v Speaker 3>needed to be made. And I hope the Court sees

644
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 3>that and looks to the future and says, yes, of

645
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 3>course it can be abused by a future president. Of

646
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.440
<v Speaker 3>course it can. Of course it could have been abused

647
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.680
<v Speaker 3>by one in the past, which it was. But the

648
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:45.759
<v Speaker 3>answer to that is not the Court's reigning it, and

649
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:47.480
<v Speaker 3>the answer is the American people.

650
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, well, okay. I tend to incline to the

651
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:58.960
<v Speaker 1>old fashioned and maybe too simplistic view that Article one

652
00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:01.720
<v Speaker 1>is the first article to Constitution for a reason that

653
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 1>the founders thought Congress ought to be the most important

654
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.519
<v Speaker 1>and dominant branch for driving American progress, not the president.

655
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.239
<v Speaker 1>President proposes and all that I know, and maybe that's

656
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.480
<v Speaker 1>too strong. On the other hand, I've always liked someone

657
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.920
<v Speaker 1>who said, I don't know who it was, John, someone

658
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.480
<v Speaker 1>who said that Richard's ideal bill of rights would have

659
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:25.280
<v Speaker 1>consisted of the sentence Congress shall make no law, period

660
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 1>and we all go home. Right. Yeah, that's right. But

661
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.480
<v Speaker 1>my thought experiment here that would be fun is, uh,

662
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:37.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, I just thought of this while we were talking.

663
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 1>It would be fun to lock Richard in a room

664
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:43.519
<v Speaker 1>and force him to read Harvey Mansfield's book on executive power,

665
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Taming the Prince, and watch his head explode and just

666
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 1>wait for all the emanations from Richard's very fast thinking brain.

667
00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:51.719
<v Speaker 1>That could be pretty amusing.

668
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.320
<v Speaker 2>So maybe one thing to also say in his defense

669
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.360
<v Speaker 2>is he has different reasons for it, but his view

670
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:01.719
<v Speaker 2>is probably the same view that most American constitutional laws

671
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.360
<v Speaker 2>scholars have, right, which is they think the executive branch

672
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.760
<v Speaker 2>is out of control. Trump has stopped and you need

673
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.719
<v Speaker 2>a especially strong judiciary to do it, and you shouldn't

674
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:16.320
<v Speaker 2>let it be broken up with all these weird courts.

675
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 2>You should just focus on, you know, the bolstering the

676
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 2>independent federal Article three judiciary so that can stand up

677
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:23.480
<v Speaker 2>to Trump.

678
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:25.760
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

679
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:28.679
<v Speaker 2>They don't make these arguments when Obama and Biden are president.

680
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.039
<v Speaker 2>They didn't make these arguments when Biden tried to cancel

681
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:34.000
<v Speaker 2>all the student loans in the country or force everyone

682
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.360
<v Speaker 2>to get a vaccine. But right when Trump's president, they

683
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:42.039
<v Speaker 2>suddenly resurrect this this suspicion of executive power that is

684
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:45.559
<v Speaker 2>part of the American American political tradition. There's always been

685
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 2>this suspicion of power.

686
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.000
<v Speaker 3>You don't need to you don't need to go into

687
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:54.679
<v Speaker 3>some deep theoretical justification for it. On the surface, the

688
00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 3>idea of a powerful, responsible and accountable executive makes perke sense.

689
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it really does.

690
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:06.119
<v Speaker 3>If you and you can look at the experience across

691
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:10.599
<v Speaker 3>states that have plural executives. You know, the governors elected

692
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:13.360
<v Speaker 3>separately from the lieutenant governor. Ex that a lot of

693
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.559
<v Speaker 3>them do that nowadays as this way of supposedly, I

694
00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:21.880
<v Speaker 3>don't know, who do you blame for the abysmal ca

695
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.199
<v Speaker 3>UH state of schools in California?

696
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Right? Yeah?

697
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:28.320
<v Speaker 4>Who has to be who's responsible for that?

698
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? We have an elected supervisor in public instruction who

699
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:32.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, used to be a big deal, but now

700
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.559
<v Speaker 1>the governor Okay, right.

701
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 3>So, but you can't hold someone accountable either if they're

702
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:41.599
<v Speaker 3>not responsible, if they don't have the power and the

703
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 3>responsibility to make things happen, you can't hold them accountable.

704
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.079
<v Speaker 3>So who do you hold accountable for the mess that

705
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:48.519
<v Speaker 3>are our interest rates?

706
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Right now?

707
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:50.760
<v Speaker 4>Who do you like for that?

708
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Well? Well, interest rates are not set by the Federals.

709
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:56.079
<v Speaker 1>There only the like the overnight rate, that's the only

710
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.320
<v Speaker 1>thing that but they're.

711
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Not also not doesn't there there's a perfect answer to

712
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:04.719
<v Speaker 3>my question, or illustration of the answer to my question.

713
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 4>Nobody knows who you blame.

714
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, okay, that's a I think it's some of

715
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:14.920
<v Speaker 1>a different category. But one other point, though, John is

716
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:17.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm having fun pointing out to my liberal friends that

717
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Trump isn't asserting any powers. That Franklin Roosevelt didn't want it,

718
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.840
<v Speaker 1>and it was always a controversy when the court got

719
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:26.039
<v Speaker 1>in his way, right, and they finally capitulated, right. And

720
00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>I do think Trump's.

721
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Face all the cases we've been talking about so far,

722
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:33.880
<v Speaker 2>the court even was there. Trump is just saying the

723
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:36.559
<v Speaker 2>statue grants me the power. Yeah, He's not like FDR

724
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 2>saying I can just close the banks because I feel

725
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 2>like it for a week, right, go off the gold standard,

726
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 2>right right, right, right, yes.

727
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Right, right, Well, I mean I do think we'll follow this,

728
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:50.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, maybe at the end of this next term.

729
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.199
<v Speaker 1>But it seems to me the Supreme Court is getting

730
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:56.079
<v Speaker 1>the kind of workout by the assertion of executive power

731
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.639
<v Speaker 1>that it has not seen since the nineteen thirties, Right,

732
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Roosevelt and the Congress were doing all these crazy things.

733
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.840
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I mean, I think the last big moment

734
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.639
<v Speaker 2>there were some cases when you know, the Reagan attacks

735
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:09.960
<v Speaker 2>on the independence of the Special Council, But I think

736
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I think the other big moment was Watergate and Nixon. Yeah,

737
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you know this this is a similar moment of you know,

738
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 2>what constitutional cases going to think of all the cases

739
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.679
<v Speaker 2>they got the Pentagon papers, you know, and you know,

740
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Nixon himself being subject to subpoena. There are a lot

741
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.320
<v Speaker 2>of big nick but ye, Nixon, and then the previous

742
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 2>one would be FDR. Now Trump would like it to

743
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.239
<v Speaker 2>just stay at the Nixon level and not elevate to

744
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.239
<v Speaker 2>the FDR court, Packing right, packing level, although that's the court.

745
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.199
<v Speaker 2>You know, then we could just move the podcast to

746
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court. Since all three of us will be there.

747
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, all right. So uh on related matter, Uh,

748
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I knew John last week when we were

749
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.280
<v Speaker 1>talking to Aki Lamar about his new book Born Equal,

750
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.119
<v Speaker 1>that oh boy, we're gonna be in trouble with Lucretia

751
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>and I should mention the Creatia that after your trip

752
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.679
<v Speaker 1>to Hawaii got canceled. I thought the last minute, I

753
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.599
<v Speaker 1>thought about mention this to John, maybe we should make

754
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.159
<v Speaker 1>Lucretia come back here for the Federal Society Conference just

755
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 1>to sit in. Problem was, it was sold out, and

756
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.440
<v Speaker 1>so it was a moot point. And next year, right,

757
00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:12.519
<v Speaker 1>and they're gonna move back.

758
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:14.679
<v Speaker 2>And ask that we be able to do our yeah

759
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.519
<v Speaker 2>pod cast next year at the Federal Society Convention for

760
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:18.480
<v Speaker 2>a live audience.

761
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:20.199
<v Speaker 1>That'd be huge fun. Right. We've got a lot of

762
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.719
<v Speaker 1>listeners there. A lot of the judges will hide in

763
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:24.960
<v Speaker 1>the back, you know, with masks on or something. I

764
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 1>don't know, listen to us, right, you know who you

765
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.719
<v Speaker 1>are out there? Anyway? You know, it's really great to

766
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:32.800
<v Speaker 1>get a kill. Right. He's a busy guy, the big deal.

767
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:34.480
<v Speaker 1>We thought we'd be lucky to get him for five

768
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:36.599
<v Speaker 1>minutes to say what's your book about? But he hung

769
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.800
<v Speaker 1>around for a while, you know, despite it, despite the

770
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.119
<v Speaker 1>interventions of Roger Palan, and you know Hadley turned up

771
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and Judge Pryor was great, and anyway, I don't know

772
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.440
<v Speaker 1>hard to handle all this. This is the second book

773
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.639
<v Speaker 1>of a trilogy. As I understand John that he's writing

774
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:57.119
<v Speaker 1>on how we quality is unfolded under the Constitution from

775
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.320
<v Speaker 1>the founding up to present time, and LUCRETI did you

776
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Speaker 1>want to make him observation just that.

777
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:07.559
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't understand anything about equality, and he doesn't understand

778
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:13.960
<v Speaker 3>anything about jaffa. I find his his deference to feminism

779
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:23.800
<v Speaker 3>revolting and evolution of Lincoln's thought. M But we don't

780
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:25.760
<v Speaker 3>have time to do that today. I'm afraid because I

781
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:27.760
<v Speaker 3>have to take the celebrity here.

782
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:33.840
<v Speaker 4>Important engagement. So Steve, with your permission.

783
00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:36.760
<v Speaker 3>I'm just gonna do a couple of Babylon bes with

784
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:42.920
<v Speaker 3>your permission, of course, the top one of Democrats sombrely

785
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:46.760
<v Speaker 3>remove some breros singing and of shutdown.

786
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:52.519
<v Speaker 4>I thought you'd like that one. Fans, this one's not political.

787
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.159
<v Speaker 5>But for those of you who you know follow any

788
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:58.320
<v Speaker 5>kind of social media fans can't believe how much rock

789
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:03.480
<v Speaker 5>singer has aged And the last fifty years or sixty.

790
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 4>Right, it's amazing.

791
00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Jack's still alive. I heard, I.

792
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:12.440
<v Speaker 3>Know, dances across the stage like he's forty five or something.

793
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:12.880
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

794
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 3>Banks now requiring your grandkids to co sign your fifty

795
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:23.920
<v Speaker 3>year mortgage? Oh boy, yeah, Auschwitz Guard explains he doesn't

796
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:29.280
<v Speaker 3>hate Jews or anything, just Zionists. Yes, that one's for you.

797
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.239
<v Speaker 3>And then I'll end it with this Congress prepares to

798
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:35.800
<v Speaker 3>pivot from doing nothing because of the shutdown to doing

799
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:37.559
<v Speaker 3>nothing because they're Congress.

800
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:41.559
<v Speaker 1>That's good, right, all right, John.

801
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:44.519
<v Speaker 2>I'll kick us out. Well, always drink your whiskey, Neat,

802
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:48.039
<v Speaker 2>buy more books than Steve. What latest ai confection do

803
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:48.840
<v Speaker 2>you have for us?

804
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I didn't have time to do a new one because

805
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.039
<v Speaker 1>I was taking down my government shutdown decorations and putting

806
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:58.599
<v Speaker 1>up my Jeffrey Epstein decorations. Since let's go back to that, right, So,

807
00:41:58.639 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 1>by the.

808
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.039
<v Speaker 3>Way, I have to end with the only the only

809
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:03.280
<v Speaker 3>negative thing that's come out of at least the release

810
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 3>of stuff today is the fact that that Jeffrey Epstein

811
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:10.000
<v Speaker 3>ended his relationship with Bill Clinton because he was a

812
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 3>pathological liar.

813
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.119
<v Speaker 1>All right, by bye, right, Bady We'll be back next

814
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:18.360
<v Speaker 1>week with a more normal like me.

815
00:42:18.440 --> 00:43:00.400
<v Speaker 3>So h

816
00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Ricochet join the conversation.