WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:02.960 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:07.839 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.240 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:16.879 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.960 patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks 7 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:34.200 dot com. 8 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:37.840 Hey, and welcome back to dot net Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin. 9 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:39.439 And I'm Richard Campbell, episode two. 10 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:41.399 Thousand and one. It's going to be good if I 11 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:43.399 can live through it. As you can tell. 12 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:46.439 Yeah, you're still battling that cold, and of course a 13 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:48.320 bit of time shifting. So the cold you may have 14 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:52.399 heard a few weeks ago is the same cold. Yeah, 15 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:55.679 in between, you know, there's been other shows. It's crazy. 16 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.840 Uh, And I picked us up while I was in Seattle, right, 17 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.679 So I'm not really sure you know how long it's 18 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:03.600 going to take. But I know it's not the flu, 19 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:05.680 and I know it's not COVID, So. 20 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.879 There you go. Yeah, that's important. It's just a cold. 21 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:09.280 It's just a springtime cold. 22 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.319 It's a cold. It's gonna last for a while, and 23 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:13.079 I hope I make it to the next gig. 24 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:15.799 I hope so too. All right, we got more shows 25 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:16.439 to record. 26 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:22.079 Yeah, this being episode two thousand and one a Space Odyssey. 27 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.280 Oh boy, let's talk about what happened in two thousand 28 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.359 and one. The big one, Yeah, of course is September 29 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.079 eleventh attacks. Yeah, not much we can say about that 30 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:33.439 that hasn't already been said. 31 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:36.280 No, I think it's it's all been said, but it 32 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.079 overwhelms a whole lot of other news that went on there. 33 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:42.400 That was also the year the Enron collapse. Mm hmm, 34 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:47.200 you know that sort of accounting scandal and you know, 35 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:49.760 company worth billions at the beginning of the year, by 36 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:51.959 the end of the week year is bankrupting, gone and 37 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.680 actually destroyed Arthur Anderson, like one of the largest accounting 38 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.560 firms in the world, who was supposed to be the 39 00:01:57.560 --> 00:01:59.719 odded body that made sure that what they were saying 40 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.079 was true and what they were saying was not true 41 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.159 and so yeah, they literally were dismantled for it. 42 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.479 And the war in Afghanistans started shortly thereafter nine to eleven. 43 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.000 Yeah, and Bush had just gotten into office, like it's yeah, 44 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:14.199 remember when it started out like there was seemed to 45 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.360 be like a conflict with China. There was the incident 46 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:19.879 with the with the US aircraft and a fighter jet. 47 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:22.319 It's like this, this is what's going on. And then 48 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.039 of course in September hits and everything changes. 49 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.879 Yeah, nasty. There's a lot of other international conflicts. I 50 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.199 want to just mention the standoffs between Indian and Pakistan, 51 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.080 continued violence in the Second Intifada, in the start of 52 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:43.599 conflicts in Macedonia. Just I don't know, maybe this was 53 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:49.439 a millennial angst kind of you know, come to fruition. 54 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:50.039 I don't know. 55 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:52.039 This is all the fallout of the collapse of the 56 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:53.919 of the Eastern Bloc, right. 57 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.319 Yeah, much, Yeah, go ahead. Let's talk about space and 58 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:58.759 technology first. 59 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.639 Javentin space. I think of importance in February when the 60 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:06.400 near Shoemaker spacecraft, which has been orbiting around four thirty 61 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.199 three arrows an asteroid, actually lands on the asteroid. No, 62 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.400 it did not have landing gear, but gravity was so 63 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:16.400 very low that it was able to maneuver precisely into 64 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:20.680 this little saddle region and actually touch the asteroid successfully. 65 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:27.639 That same month, the Atlantis Space Shuttle carries the Destinary 66 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.319 Laboratory module to the International Space station, so this is 67 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.199 the big one, the large module. The most interesting thing 68 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.159 in that event is during this space walks to hook 69 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:39.280 that module up, so they actually have to get it, 70 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.840 go into their space suits, and go outside to hook 71 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:45.800 up lines. On the outside, there's an ammonia leak and 72 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:50.479 astronaut Robert Kirbeam ends up being covered in an inch 73 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:56.560 of frozen ammonia, so he's outside the spaceship. He said, yeah, 74 00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:00.439 this is not good, and ammonia is quite toxic. They 75 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.360 can't carry it into the space station now, so he's 76 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.319 basically stuck out there for nineteen minutes for a full 77 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.520 orbit until they get around into the Sun's side again, 78 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.639 where the sun will evaporate all of the ammonia off 79 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.879 of him, so he can't see things we take for granted, 80 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.560 yes the sun. Now he's not stuck, he's not paralyzed 81 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:23.680 in his suit or anything. It's just crystals covering him. 82 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.000 So then they get him too the airlock and it's 83 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.079 the old airlock because they haven't flown the new one 84 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:31.040 yet so it's not very big and put him in 85 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.040 the airlock pressurized it depressurized a couple times to try 86 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.639 and blow all the ammonia that's left on him out 87 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:38.639 before they actually get inside, and it turns out to 88 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:41.040 be a non event. But for a moment there, the 89 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:44.839 things were really serious. Yeah, following month, in March, the 90 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.480 Mere space station is deorbited. This has been decided the 91 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:52.480 following the previous year in November, the Russian Federation just 92 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:54.759 did not have the money to operate both mir and 93 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:58.439 the International Space Station requirements they had, plus, Mirror was 94 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.079 very old at that point was a ten year space 95 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.199 station that was now fifteen years old. In fact, the 96 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:08.040 deorbit was delayed because of gyro failures on the mirrorment 97 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.759 that they couldn't dock the progress booster to it to 98 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.560 deorbit it, and they didn't want they It was already 99 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:17.360 low enough that if they didn't boost it immediately it 100 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:18.879 was going to deorbit by the end of March on 101 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.759 its own, out of control a la sky Lab, and 102 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:26.879 nobody wanted that. So instead they brought a progress booster 103 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:28.959 up to it, and then in March deliberately drever it 104 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.839 so that it came down near Fiji into the South 105 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:36.399 Atlantic I mean sad, but also it was time, you know, 106 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.319 these space stations don't last forever. They met the materials 107 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:41.920 wear out, the equipment wear is out, and the design 108 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.040 of those stations, the Russian design, a lot of those 109 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:47.600 parts weren't replaceable. You just had to replace the whole module. 110 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.240 So it just wasn't worthwhile. Plenty of Space Shuttle missions 111 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:54.240 to the ISS to do resupply and so forth, including 112 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.759 Chris Hadfield, the Canadian very famous now Fairies Game is 113 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:01.560 Canadian astronaut. At the time, it was his first trip 114 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:03.959 to the International Space Station and he would be the 115 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.759 first Canadian spacewalker ever. He would later go on to 116 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:07.759 command the space station. 117 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:10.720 In the first person spaced David Bowie sung in space. 118 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:14.959 Yeah, that's right. Also, the Mars Odyssey mission was launched 119 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:16.879 in April. This we'll get and we'll get to Mars 120 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.639 in October, and it's one of the telemetry satellites and 121 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:26.360 image surface map aerial mappers orbiters. The big airlock for 122 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:30.120 the National Space Station arrives in July, the question joined 123 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.120 airlock which is a lot more capacity. And also Dennis Tito, 124 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:38.160 you remember Dennis Tito, now the first space tourist in 125 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.879 April gets to the International Space Station when it's still 126 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.480 pretty small, right on TM thirty two and he gets 127 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.240 to spend eight days on the International Space Station. Very 128 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:46.879 first space. 129 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:48.800 I remember that, but I just didn't remember his name. 130 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:53.959 His name is Tito. And yeah, more supply missions. Final 131 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.839 thing I'll mention on space is that. And this year, 132 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:03.759 a not particularly well known tech entrepreneur named Elon Musk 133 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.600 donates one hundred thousand dollars to the Mars Society and 134 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:11.560 joins the board, and during one of their meetings, announces 135 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.279 a project he calls Mars Oasis, the idea of landing 136 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:20.279 a greenhouse on Mars. At the time, he's in negotiation 137 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:24.519 with ross Cosmos with the Russian Federation to acquire a 138 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:28.800 neeper launch vehicle to be able to fly a mission 139 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.319 to Mars. The Russians think he's a joke, and it 140 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.839 makes him angry, and he starts looking at how what 141 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:36.519 it would take to build his own rocket. 142 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:39.839 I never went anywhere, did it all? 143 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:45.199 Right Over to computing, I'd call it foreshadowing except its history. 144 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.560 It's two thousand and one, the dot com crash is 145 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.800 well underway. Tech companies have lost a lot of value already. 146 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.600 It's not over yet. Bottom up in two thousand and two, 147 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:02.040 so that's exciting. And Apple has an amazing year in 148 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.040 two thousand and one. In January, they released iTunes. It 149 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.279 was originally a product called Soundjawn that they acquired in 150 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.519 ninety nine. It was created in ninety nine they acquired 151 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.160 in two thousand and they're heading down their music path 152 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.879 because in October they'll release the iPod. They also opened 153 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.319 the first Apple stores in Glendale, California and in Tysons, 154 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.879 Virginia and mac OSX is released, So I mean Apple 155 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.079 was firing on all cylinders there. It was amazing. 156 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:28.600 Microsoft also released the Xbox that year. 157 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.240 Matt Microsoft releases the Xbox that year. They also released 158 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.080 XP that year, including the sixty four bit Itanium version. 159 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:39.159 The Xbox release includes is also the same time they 160 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.559 released Halo, the most popular game for the Xbox, and 161 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.320 it's also too. In June, the US versus Microsoft decision 162 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.720 where Microsoft is ordered to break up into two companies 163 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.240 that didn't have they will sub subsequently by the end 164 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.559 of the year negotiate a consent to cree that won't have. 165 00:08:53.720 --> 00:09:00.759 That actually happen. Also July, Napster is shut down. This 166 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:04.480 was the music and media piracy site. Yeah there was, 167 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.440 you know, but it's solid. That same month, a guy 168 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:12.200 named Bram Cohen announces a open source library he calls BitTorrent. 169 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:17.039 Yeah, BitTorrent. We we got sucked into the BitTorrent thing 170 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.200 because bandwidth was expensive back then. 171 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:23.080 Yeah, and we were trying to save bandwidth. So well, 172 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:25.200 we had started the show yet, you hadn't started the 173 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:26.840 show yet. Remember I'm the new guy. I'll show up 174 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:27.600 a couple of years later. 175 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:28.320 But yeah, that's right. 176 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:30.840 Yeah, BitTorrent's already invented, and we'll you'll need to use 177 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.080 it to try and save me what cause? So yeah, 178 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.279 for on the Microsoft side, we we've got the case, 179 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:42.200 We've got XP We've got I E six, very popular browser, 180 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.039 and the Xbox with Hailo. That's all I got. 181 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.200 There's something else that I forgot to say, and maybe 182 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.440 you want to talk about it, But the first draft 183 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:53.720 of the Complete Human Genome was published in Nature in 184 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:54.639 two thousand and one. 185 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.240 Yeah, we talked about the preliminaries of that previously, but yeah, 186 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:00.720 the the Human Genome project had been going on for 187 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:04.279 some time. And yeah, the complete draft is almost a misnomer. 188 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.840 There'll be subsequent additions to it after that, but yeah, 189 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.759 it's a multi billion dollar multi year project that now 190 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.159 has paved the way to a whole lot of science. 191 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:16.840 Also, before we go on all, musician George Harrison died. 192 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:18.559 You may have heard of him. He was in that 193 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:24.080 little band called the Beatles. November twenty ninth. And yeah, 194 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.679 that was bad. Some anthrax attacks happened, some natural disasters 195 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:30.399 and other things. But I want to talk about the 196 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.240 top ten movies of two thousand and one. Hannibal number ten, 197 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:39.399 Planet of the Apes, number nine, Jurassic Park three, number eight. 198 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.120 Did you even see two or three? I only saw 199 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:42.679 the first one. 200 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:43.919 You alys saw the first one? 201 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:50.480 Yeah, The Mummy returns, Pearl Harbor, Ocean's eleven, Shrek also 202 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.960 great now. Number three is Monsters Inc. 203 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:54.080 Great great movie. 204 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:59.080 Number two, oh yeah, number two, Philly Crystal is just 205 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.919 so great that it's so great. Number two is Lord 206 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.519 of the Rings, the Fellowship of the Ring. And okay, 207 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.039 number one Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. 208 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:12.919 Yeah yeah, what a series? What a series? 209 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:15.440 All right? So that's about all we can say about 210 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:16.919 two thousand and one. I'm sure we left a lot 211 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.639 of stuff out, but hey, it's only an hour show, 212 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.639 so let's get on with better. 213 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:21.720 No. 214 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:22.240 Framework. 215 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:22.679 Awesome. 216 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.799 All right, all right, so I went, you know, as 217 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.039 I always do, I go looking for trending repos. This 218 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.399 one was beating all of the other trending repos by 219 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:43.919 a long shot, just like in one day, something like 220 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:50.120 six hundred thousand downloads or something. It's a it's basically 221 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:55.399 a video maker bot where you take a Reddit conversation 222 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:00.480 and you have a dialogue box that shows a question, right, 223 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.919 and then another dialogue after that posted over it that 224 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.519 has the answer, and it's usually hilarious, right, And so 225 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:12.320 people are making videos of these with a with a 226 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.639 background and posting them on TikTok and YouTube and Instagram 227 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.320 and everywhere, and they're going viral. This is just like 228 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.480 a thing that you're you know, you're just memish that 229 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.080 you're making fun of people on Reddit or or you know. 230 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.799 Reddit is where people make fun of people all the time. 231 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:33.840 So this is now a visualization because comments are historically 232 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:34.960 phenomenally funny. 233 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:38.720 The chickens are coming home to roost, I guess. So basically, 234 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:43.039 this guy put together a bot that makes a video 235 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:49.360 just with you know, pure programming basically, and he takes it. 236 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:54.279 He use his Python uses playwright, and he autumn. You 237 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:56.840 just give it the Reddit topic that you want and 238 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.279 bing bang boom makes an MP. 239 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:04.519 Three playwrights doing the scraping role to pull the data needed. Yeah, 240 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:05.440 I get it. 241 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:07.759 Yeah, and so yeah, this is the thing. If you 242 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.440 know it, you know, But if you don't, you don't care. Sorry, 243 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:11.879 I just wasted your time. 244 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:13.440 Hilarious. 245 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.879 So that's what I got. Who's talking to today? 246 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.799 You know, we're talking about nano framework today, And I've 247 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:20.879 been a while since we've done any shows around the 248 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.279 micro framework and you know, the precursor to it. But 249 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.879 I went into the wayback machine there and found our 250 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.919 IoT on Windows Talk conversation with Dan Rosenstein. This is 251 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:35.320 from twenty fourteen. It's episode ten nineteen, and this was 252 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.120 part of the Windows Developer program being trying to make 253 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.360 IoT easier in that space, and it focused on Intel's 254 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.279 Galileo device which works with our duino but also you know, 255 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:51.000 it works with x eighty six, and they at that 256 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.679 moment they hadn't released an implementation of the micro framework 257 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.799 for it, but subsequently they did. And in fact I 258 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.720 grabbed our friend Pete Brown's calm atop of the show 259 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.919 where he said, and immediately it's eleven years ago. You 260 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.159 can get the Intel Galileo for fifty nine dollars from 261 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.360 Amazon net. Duenogo runs the dot net micro framework, which 262 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.919 itself is an operating system for the device. Although OS 263 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.200 is a strong term for what is really a hardware 264 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.519 distraction layer and API set with an interpreter yeah operating system, 265 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:23.960 there is no additional OS required at this point. The 266 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:27.679 GO protocol in bus is conceptually similar to USB versus Gadgeteer, 267 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.200 which is more Arduino like in that it exposes native 268 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.600 pins and interfaces to the microcontroller. Our duino is more 269 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.799 of an API layer over ABR and not really any 270 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.720 sort of operating system in general. It uses shields, which 271 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.080 is this pin based way of adding additional hardware to 272 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:45.200 our duenos. But they're increasingly a number of smaller form 273 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:50.240 factors and breadboard family implementations. And admittedly this is a 274 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.960 ten year old post. Things have changed a fair bit here, 275 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.039 but he still goes on to say this is Pete. 276 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.120 Raspberry Pie runs Linux, as does boards like beagle Bone 277 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:02.279 and others. Dot A Gadgetar modules through the standard tenpin connectors, 278 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.320 but the pins are like our do we know form 279 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.559 factors dedicated specific uses. It makes it easier to prototype, 280 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:09.799 and when combined with a design service and class libraries 281 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.360 and visual studio, makes really good dev experience. And thanks 282 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.559 for the shartout. Thank you, Pete. We haven't met on 283 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.080 the show in forever. We should probably do something about that, 284 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.480 and I am really looking forward to our conversation to days, 285 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:24.879 just because there's so much that has changed in the 286 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:27.240 IoT space. There's so much better hardware out there and 287 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.559 obviously better tool it. So Pete, thank you so much 288 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:32.120 for your comment. And a copy of Music Coby is 289 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.279 on its way to you, And if you'd like a 290 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.039 copy of music co buy right a comment on the 291 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.320 website at dot net rocks dot com or on the facebooks. 292 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.320 We publish every show there and if you comment there 293 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:40.799 and reading on the show, we'll send you a copy 294 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.399 of Music go By and Music Coby. 295 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.399 You know, I still haven't finished the twenty third track. 296 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:47.919 I really got to do that, really in downtime. I 297 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.519 can't believe I didn't do that all right, twenty two tracks, 298 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.360 twenty five minutes each to help you get into a 299 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.639 state of flow while developing and stay there and still 300 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:03.600 going strong, also getting multiple multiple sales every week all right, 301 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.200 let's bring on our guest today, Jose Simolish. He is 302 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.799 the CEO of Eclose Solutions and founder and core team 303 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:17.120 lead of dot Net nano Framework. Based in Lyria, Portugal, 304 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:20.519 he was awarded Microsoft MVP five times for his work 305 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.840 on Internet of Things and developer technologies. His ship projects 306 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:30.240 across embedded firmware, hardware design, and cloud connected products, with 307 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.519 a toolbox that includes dot Net and Azure technologies alongside 308 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:40.159 c C plus plus microcontrollers and electronics. Passionate about building 309 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.360 open source communities and empowering developers in the various communities 310 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:47.399 he's actively engaged with. He's also a published author of 311 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:51.879 Embedded Systems with dot Net nanoframework from Apress. Welcome to 312 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:52.879 the show, Jose. 313 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.120 Well, thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure to 314 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.080 be here with you. 315 00:16:58.120 --> 00:16:58.399 Guys. 316 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:00.840 I think it was you that reached out to us 317 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:03.840 about the nano framework, or somebody did recently, and that's 318 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:05.680 ended up being. 319 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:09.160 It was at episode two thousand, which you know we 320 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:12.440 published last week is all the time shifting thing, It 321 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.440 was actually a couple of weeks ago, Like time is weird, 322 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.200 but yeah, we had a chance to meet him and 323 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.720 like holy Man, we have never talked about nano framework. 324 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.359 We talked about micro framework years ago, right, not nano framework. 325 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.240 So we should fix that right away. It's been a 326 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:28.000 long time. I guess that's a good starting point. Like 327 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:30.400 what's the difference between micro framework and nano framework. 328 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.279 Well, interestingly, to the best of my knowledge, two thousand 329 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:40.319 and one was when the work started to on developing 330 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.680 micro framework, which was published in two thousand and two. 331 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:48.000 Right, so it came out at the same time as 332 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:49.119 the regular framework. 333 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:51.759 Yes, about the same time as far as I know. Yeah, 334 00:17:53.359 --> 00:18:02.799 And what says about it's revised and augmented micro framework. 335 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:11.240 It's capable for running on small devices it had it 336 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:16.359 still uses a lot of the comproducts from the original 337 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:22.319 micro framework. We left the good parts in and we 338 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.880 revamped the basically the build system, which was quite outdated. 339 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.599 We focused on having it possible to run on multiple 340 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:39.160 and different hardware vendors and micro controllers, which is what 341 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:43.000 you can do now. Any Certitude its micro control can 342 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.480 run a nano framework. And we had a bunch of 343 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:54.079 stuff with everything that it's new on the embedded systems world, 344 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:01.000 like io T, the network connections, various protocols of course, 345 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.200 all the usual stuff that you would expect on a 346 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:10.240 micro control is there, spi as Czer reports, all that put. 347 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.920 By the Nano moniker that it's smaller than the micro 348 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:14.720 framework is that, yes. 349 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:20.920 Yeah, yeah, that's the naming is hard. And back then 350 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:25.880 when we spin off the project, we went a lot. 351 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.839 There was a lot of discussion on what we should 352 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:34.319 call it, and ended up being Nano with a small 353 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:41.200 caps N to stress that it's it's a nano version 354 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.319 of the full dot net. 355 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:45.839 And this is not a Microsoft in issues. This is 356 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:46.839 all community driven. 357 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:54.079 Yeah, yeah, that's something that sometimes people confuse. But despite 358 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:59.440 this sitting on the dot net ecosystem uses visual Studio 359 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.559 visuals to go the dot net new gats and all that. 360 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:09.079 It's not a Microsoft project and does not run on 361 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:12.319 Microsoft budget. It's community driven. 362 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:17.359 That's awesome. The big difference, you know, referencing the comment 363 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:19.039 I grabbed from ten years ago, the big difference ten 364 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.680 years from ago to now is the micro controllers are 365 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:27.440 wildly better. Esp. Thirty two and five, like, this is 366 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.759 such good gear out there. They're small, they're super cheap, 367 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.599 and they're really very powerful. 368 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:38.359 Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing when compared with micro framework. Memory, 369 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.440 despite being expensive, is much more cheap. 370 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.599 Computing me not today, but like six months ago. 371 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:56.400 Yeah exactly, but everything is cheaper than it was when 372 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:57.880 when all this started. 373 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.400 Yeah, and it makes it makes a ton of difference, 374 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.799 even with the CPU power that you see that you 375 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.279 have on the on the micro controller, and you can 376 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:14.759 have much smaller devices and all that has changed. 377 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.480 Yeah, just and I've been doing I haven't done much 378 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:21.599 with nano framework, not any with Nano framework. When I 379 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.880 use ESP thirty twos, and I'm a home assistant guy, 380 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.599 so I use the SP thirty twos all the time. 381 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.480 It's through ESP Home right where you almost barely touch 382 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.400 that hardware per se. You're just kind of giving instructions 383 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:35.400 for what you wanted to do, and it generates into 384 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.960 the device because it just has so much cloud exactly. 385 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:43.440 That's kind of I would say, similar to to the 386 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:49.839 to the Nano framework promise our value propositions that nano 387 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:56.279 frameworker abstracts all the complication from imbedded systems development and 388 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:01.680 the hardware. The hard part like booting my controller, configuring 389 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:06.880 all those registers to have the clock properly set, the 390 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.359 memory maps, the linker files. All that is hard and 391 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:19.000 it's abstracted. As you use Nano framework, you have framewares 392 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.000 for a bunch of different micro controllers and you can 393 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:28.079 basically cause ones and deploy on the different platforms that 394 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:29.039 you are working with. 395 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:30.319 Yeah, that's a nice. 396 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.680 Feature, you seem to imply. Then there is a kind 397 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:35.640 of a CLR here that's abstracting the hardware for us. 398 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:39.200 Yeah, that's there is the CLR and also how and 399 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:44.480 the power layer, because abstruct the hardware and you abstract 400 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.799 the platform. Despite those being micro controllers. With the thirty 401 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:54.160