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Speaker 6: Host, you are now listening to True Murder, The most
Speaker 6: Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that
Speaker 6: have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK.
Speaker 6: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 6: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 6: your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This
Speaker 6: is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder,
Speaker 6: The most shocking Killers in True crime History and the
Speaker 6: authors that have written about them. On June fourth, nineteen
Speaker 6: eighty nine, the bodies of Joe, Michelle and Christy Rogers
Speaker 6: were found floating in the serene waters of Tampa Bay, Florida.
Speaker 6: They were stripped below the waist, bound and tied to
Speaker 6: concrete blocks. They were going on vacation. It was a
Speaker 6: trip that may seem normal to some, but to the
Speaker 6: Rogers family was a trip of a lifetime. They were
Speaker 6: going to Florida to make some memories, but Florida would
Speaker 6: literally become a furist trap for Joe, Michelle and Christy.
Speaker 6: They would not make it home alive. The Rogers women
Speaker 6: were going to experience Florida in the classic fashion. They
Speaker 6: would color their days with beaches, attractions, and maybe even
Speaker 6: a visit to Mickey Mouse. This would be a welcome
Speaker 6: respite from their daily grind. Spent on a three hundred
Speaker 6: acre dairy farm in Ohio, they were determined to enjoy
Speaker 6: every moment. There were still no fresh leads by the
Speaker 6: spring of nineteen ninety two, Moore decided to push harder
Speaker 6: with the media. He released information from a psychological profile
Speaker 6: that was prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The
Speaker 6: reward was raised to twenty five five thousand dollars. More
Speaker 6: held press conferences and held and had the case featured
Speaker 6: on such programs national television programs as Unsolved Mysteries and
Speaker 6: Diabolical Minds Case Studies. Something Click. This time, Joanne Stephie
Speaker 6: of Tampa was convinced that her neighbor was the killer.
Speaker 6: Police did not act on Stephie's tip initially, but she
Speaker 6: was persistent and police finally made the arrest of Oba
Speaker 6: Chandler that year. Oba Chandler and the murder of the
Speaker 6: Rogers family is the focus of our program this evening
Speaker 6: with my special guest, journalist and author Fred Schrum. The
Speaker 6: third Welcome to the program, and thank you to this interview.
Speaker 6: Fred Schrum, thank you Dan.
Speaker 7: Good to talk to you tonight.
Speaker 5: Good talking with you. I can't quite hear you, so
Speaker 5: if you have any control of your volume, if you
Speaker 5: could please anyway, thank you very much for agreeing to
Speaker 5: this interview. A very interesting story. Now tell us a
Speaker 5: little bit, because I don't think the intro really did
Speaker 5: justice to explaining very much. But this is quite a
Speaker 5: complex story. Tell us a little bit about who Joan,
Speaker 5: Michelle and Christy Rogers were, and hell, tell us a
Speaker 5: little bit about who these people were. Who was the mother,
Speaker 5: who was the daughter, what were their ages? Who is
Speaker 5: how and tell us a little bit about the Rogers family.
Speaker 8: Okay, Well, Joe Rogers was thirty six, She was the
Speaker 8: mother of the family. Christy was the second oldest, and
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, Michelle was the second oldest. She was about
Speaker 8: seventeen and Christy was fourteen. Their father was how he
Speaker 8: was thirty seven, and they were a family from Ohio.
Speaker 8: They ran in a three hundred acre dairy farm and
Speaker 8: basically they were just trying to break through the daily
Speaker 8: grind of that and take a.
Speaker 7: Vacation like so many people do.
Speaker 8: All they knew all their life was work, work, work,
Speaker 8: and they just wanted to get away from that. So
Speaker 8: they finally decided to go on this vacation. Then, how
Speaker 8: simply couldn't get away from the work of the farm.
Speaker 8: He had over eighty cows, he had to milk twice
Speaker 8: a day. He has you know, bakers, a negres of
Speaker 8: the cross. So they decided. He decided to let his
Speaker 8: life and daughters go on the trip without him because
Speaker 8: he didn't want them to miss it, just because he couldn't.
Speaker 8: He he was having trouble with his cross. He had
Speaker 8: to get his crops in the ground, and if he
Speaker 8: didn't do it, nobody else would. So he wanted to
Speaker 8: let them go ahead and go on the trip.
Speaker 5: Now, So they so how did they did they fly
Speaker 5: to the Florida? How did they proceed to Florida? And
Speaker 5: what was the date that give us the date in
Speaker 5: the year that this faithful journey began?
Speaker 8: Okay, so it was May nineteen eighty nine. They left Wilshire, Ohio,
Speaker 8: and their vehicle their car, they had an open Middle
Speaker 8: calif and they took the long trip from all all
Speaker 8: the way down to Florida, and it took them a
Speaker 8: couple of days to get there. Joe, No, the mother
Speaker 8: was thirty six and she was the driver.
Speaker 5: And how old were the daughters.
Speaker 8: Michelle was seventeen and Christy was fourteen.
Speaker 5: Now their ultimate goal or ultimate destination was Tampa. That's
Speaker 5: where they were last the scene was in Tampa. But
Speaker 5: they did stop in Jacksonville, and they did stop for
Speaker 5: some famous landmarks and destinations that the tourists are very
Speaker 5: fond of going to tell us a little about some
Speaker 5: of their adventure where they actually did make it to
Speaker 5: in that short few days, starting on May twenty sixth
Speaker 5: and of course ending on June first.
Speaker 8: Well, basically they just had women amount of time, so
Speaker 8: they wanted to get as much Florida in as they could,
Speaker 8: so they got it. The first stop was the Jacksonville
Speaker 8: Zoo and they stayed there and they looked at all
Speaker 8: the animals. They had never seen animals like that before,
Speaker 8: so they hung out there and then next day went
Speaker 8: to Silver Spring. Now, if anybody doesn't know, that's an
Speaker 8: attraction the famous for their glass bottom boats. They actually
Speaker 8: go on a boat and the bottom is the glass,
Speaker 8: so you can see, you know, what's below. You can
Speaker 8: see the sea life, the animals and the seaweed and
Speaker 8: stuff like that. And actually that was a major part
Speaker 8: of this investigation. Once they found out where they had gone,
Speaker 8: investigators really wanted to know what their experience was with
Speaker 8: water and with boats, cause they hoped they might be
Speaker 8: a clue into what happened. It turns out they really
Speaker 8: didn't have much experience with water in boats. Actually, Uh,
Speaker 8: Joe was afraid of water and I and I think
Speaker 8: that was the first time Christy had ever stepped foot
Speaker 8: in a boat. After they went to Silver Spring, they
Speaker 8: went to Sea World, they went to Epcot Center, and
Speaker 8: they went to MGM Studios before they pulled into Tampa.
Speaker 5: Now on Tampa Bay, when they moved pardon me, when
Speaker 5: they finally arrived in Tampa, Uh, they stayed at a
Speaker 5: day's inn, which is important to this, to the case
Speaker 5: and to the story. Now as far as anyone knows,
Speaker 5: what did what was their day like on their last
Speaker 5: day that anyone record a day of their lives? What
Speaker 5: would what was the events that they partake par took
Speaker 5: upon in on June first, that day in Tampa, well.
Speaker 8: June first, they checked in about meantime and they went exploring.
Speaker 8: They went around you know, to see what was going
Speaker 8: on in Tampa. They were thinking about going to Bush Garden,
Speaker 8: possibly the Gulf Beaches, and the hotel itself looked over
Speaker 8: the waterline of Tampa Bay and they really wanted to see,
Speaker 8: you know, they wanted to think about going through the
Speaker 8: water and go to the beach. So after they went
Speaker 8: out exploring, they decided to go to dinner at the
Speaker 8: hotel and that night, around seven o'clock was the last
Speaker 8: time they were seen alive. There was a businessman in
Speaker 8: the hotel's restaurant. He saw them there. They were seeing
Speaker 8: right in front of him. He told police later he
Speaker 8: had volunteered the information. And you know, they were sitting around,
Speaker 8: they were talking and laughing and joking, and when they
Speaker 8: got up to leave, Michelle said hello to him. Is
Speaker 8: he walked out said that was something he definitely remembered.
Speaker 5: Now, this is what's kind of odd for people reading this,
Speaker 5: and you do take great effort to sort of explain somewhat,
Speaker 5: But maybe I can ask you this question because this
Speaker 5: is one of the questions that came to me. These
Speaker 5: people worked on this dairy farm, but why there's no
Speaker 5: telephone contact. From May twenty sixth, we'll talk about this.
Speaker 5: I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but there was no
Speaker 5: contact between Joan and her husband. Hell after they left,
Speaker 5: were they not people that we were you know that
Speaker 5: we're interested in having cell phones or there's usually phones
Speaker 5: in hotel rooms. Is there a reason why? Was there
Speaker 5: any reason, any good reason why they weren't in contact
Speaker 5: by telephone?
Speaker 8: They with They did speak to How on the telephone
Speaker 8: as the trip progressed. The postcards and letters back to
Speaker 8: How and Michelle sent them to his boyfriend or to
Speaker 8: her boyfriend. Right, you know the one't room An articles
Speaker 8: right about that. But but the funny thing of that is, uh,
Speaker 8: you're absolutely right. How has got concerned? You know that?
Speaker 8: I think it was June first was the last time
Speaker 8: we talked to them, probably when they came into Tampa, Okay.
Speaker 8: But by the time he spoke, by the time they
Speaker 8: were supposed to be back in Ohio, he hadn't heard
Speaker 8: from him for several days. And that was really what
Speaker 8: really got him worried.
Speaker 5: He was expecting them to call and and how many
Speaker 5: how many days would it be a drive for for
Speaker 5: those people who are you know, geographically challenged somewhat or
Speaker 5: don't know the area. How long would it take reasonably
Speaker 5: for people to drive from Tampa back to this Ohio.
Speaker 8: It's about a two day drive.
Speaker 2: It's about a two day drive.
Speaker 5: So was he surprised that that she that Joe and
Speaker 5: his wife had not called from say a hotel after
Speaker 5: the say, the first night in between coming back from Tampa.
Speaker 8: Was he he's quite concerned about that. He you know,
Speaker 8: he's wondered why he hadn't heard from them. But he
Speaker 8: just figured, oh, you know, they're just having fun and
Speaker 8: taking their time and maybe they didn't get a chance
Speaker 8: to call me. So he just figured, you know, they're
Speaker 8: having fun, and he didn't want to, you know, try
Speaker 8: to bother them. Sorry, just let it go.
Speaker 5: I see, I see now, Uh tell us about the
Speaker 5: days in and what happened there too for the manager
Speaker 5: to call police? Why? How how it was that they
Speaker 5: the maid came into the room and what prompted the
Speaker 5: manager to call police after they had gone into that
Speaker 5: hotel room.
Speaker 8: Well, the maid got concerned because they had the person
Speaker 8: had checked into that room a week before, and nothing
Speaker 8: looked like it had ever moved. All the objects in
Speaker 8: the room stayed in the same and didn't look like
Speaker 8: the cases were really unpacked and they just dusted around everything.
Speaker 8: And then after a week went by, the maid really
Speaker 8: got nervous about it because she had seen the news reports.
Speaker 8: So she manager she you know, she didn't know if
Speaker 8: this was the missing people or not, but she just feared,
Speaker 8: you know, it was strange for a room to go
Speaker 8: in touch for a week, and any thought that was
Speaker 8: a good idea. So he also he called Tampa police
Speaker 8: and they said invest to get her out.
Speaker 5: And what did they find, if anything, any clues at all?
Speaker 5: What did they find at the hotel room? What did
Speaker 5: police find there?
Speaker 8: The police found they checked the records to see who
Speaker 8: it was. Joan Rogers was the person who checked in, right,
Speaker 8: and they so what they did was they thus the
Speaker 8: new Corpinio prints and they matched it at the finger
Speaker 8: prints of the bodies that were covered from the bay
Speaker 8: and the matches fit. There was Joan Rodgers they checked
Speaker 8: in the hotel room and John Rodgers that they had
Speaker 8: found floating in the bay. Right, So now they knew
Speaker 8: who it was and the victims were.
Speaker 5: Now once they knew that they had a match that
Speaker 5: these three people. That was very interesting too that the
Speaker 5: maid made that connection was fortunate enough to see the
Speaker 5: newscast and then made that connection. Am I correct? That
Speaker 5: led that the police were you know, the manager was
Speaker 5: then anxious to call the police, and then from there
Speaker 5: the police did match up those fingers. French was there.
Speaker 5: What did they find as once they knew that they
Speaker 5: were dealing with a match for these three women, what
Speaker 5: did they then find at the hotel room that was
Speaker 5: at least a somewhat Well, wasn't the clue that would
Speaker 5: lead them to their next move?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 8: Number one thing what they did was they they had
Speaker 8: the dental records from the victims and the morgue, and
Speaker 8: they compared those to the Rogers family up in Ohio.
Speaker 8: They contacted their dentists and they matched those as well.
Speaker 8: So they had the fingerprint match and they had a
Speaker 8: dental match. Based on those two links, they decided they
Speaker 8: would go ahead and notify how that it was his family.
Speaker 8: That was then and the very first thing that once
Speaker 8: they figured out it was a match, they they try
Speaker 8: to figure out where the car was because their car
Speaker 8: was not in the parking lot of the hotel.
Speaker 5: And where did they inevitably find the car?
Speaker 8: Well, they figured that since the bodies are found in
Speaker 8: the water. Then obviously what they were going to do
Speaker 8: is try and search the closest going to start, the
Speaker 8: closest place where you could get onto the water to
Speaker 8: the hotel. So there was a lot talk about three
Speaker 8: and a half miles away from their hotel and they
Speaker 8: did find their car there.
Speaker 5: And did that lead to any suspects that would be
Speaker 5: potentially docking a boat there?
Speaker 8: Well, they found some clues that they didn't actually have
Speaker 8: a suspect as of yet.
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Speaker 8: Plus some brochures and some stationary in the hotel or
Speaker 8: in the car.
Speaker 5: Okay, what was the brochure? What was what was the
Speaker 5: brochure about? What was what was contained in that brochure
Speaker 5: that would lead police to I think they had some
Speaker 5: sort of tangible clue.
Speaker 8: Well, one of the things was some days in stationary
Speaker 8: and it had Joe had written some handwritten directions on
Speaker 8: there of of how to get to the boat dock.
Speaker 8: And on those directions, you know, it's like turn right
Speaker 8: west on State Road sixty two and a half miles
Speaker 8: on the right side before the bridge. And then also
Speaker 8: next to it was a description blue with white So
Speaker 8: police thought that that was a description of the boat
Speaker 8: they needed to get on, a blue boat with white trim.
Speaker 8: So they had a clue they were looking for a
Speaker 8: blue boat with white trim.
Speaker 2: That's not much of a clue though, right, that's.
Speaker 8: Not much of a clue because they started asking around
Speaker 8: when they found you know, they talked to people, and
Speaker 8: people the witnesses have told him that they found a
Speaker 8: dark suv in the parking lot of the hotel. It
Speaker 8: carried a blue boat with white trim on it. So
Speaker 8: they placed that vehicle in the day then parking lot
Speaker 8: when the Rogers were staying there. But that's really not
Speaker 8: much of a clue because in Florida there's a lot
Speaker 8: of dark SUVs and a lot of boats lily with
Speaker 8: white trim.
Speaker 5: Wasn't there something about the handwriting itself though, that there
Speaker 5: was along with Jones writing, there was other writing that
Speaker 5: was not her handwriting.
Speaker 8: That is correct. There was a brochure with a map
Speaker 8: of clear writer on it, and on that for sure,
Speaker 8: there was handwriting that was not the Rogers family handwriting.
Speaker 8: In a basically it told them, you know, how to
Speaker 8: get to the boat dock from their hotel, So that
Speaker 8: was a clue. But again they didn't know whose handwriting
Speaker 8: it was. They were pretty convinced that that person wouldn't
Speaker 8: know what happened, but they didn't know if that was
Speaker 8: the killer. They didn't have any hand writing to pump
Speaker 8: it up against either, so basically they didn't know what
Speaker 8: to do.
Speaker 5: Now the police. It's interesting you see sometimes accomposite drawing.
Speaker 5: Of course they didn't have one in this particular case.
Speaker 5: Sometimes they would reach out to the media for assistance,
Speaker 5: and in this particular case they did, and there was
Speaker 5: sort of an unusual request for the media with a
Speaker 5: pretty successful result. If you're looking for the amount of
Speaker 5: callers that would call in tell us about what the
Speaker 5: police decided to share with the media and what was
Speaker 5: the response like.
Speaker 8: Well, the police found out in the course of investigation
Speaker 8: that about two weeks prior to the murders there was
Speaker 8: a rape not very far away from that hotel, and
Speaker 8: the rapists raped the woman on his boat. So that
Speaker 8: was very interesting to them. That sounded kind of like
Speaker 8: a similarity. So they had they interviewed that person and
Speaker 8: they grew up a composite of the suspect and that
Speaker 8: seemed pretty similar to them, as you know, kind of
Speaker 8: what happened to the rogers. So they circulated that composite
Speaker 8: in the media hoping that people would see that guy
Speaker 8: and try to who the men. Also, what they did
Speaker 8: was the directions that were written in the other person's
Speaker 8: hand They circulated those also through the media to see
Speaker 8: if anyone would recognize that handwriting and.
Speaker 2: What was the response like to that clue.
Speaker 8: So they had several hundred tips the very first week.
Speaker 8: The responsors overwhelming, but unfortunately they followed up on every
Speaker 8: single tip and you know, nothing came of it. They
Speaker 8: didn't have any fresh.
Speaker 5: Clues, and how did they come to who made the
Speaker 5: connection between the Was it the police themselves that said, okay,
Speaker 5: but wait a minute, there was a rape a few
Speaker 5: miles away of a Canadian tourist. And again, what we
Speaker 5: haven't talked about, and I'm going to ask you about this.
Speaker 5: They couldn't have made that connection between the Canadian tourist
Speaker 5: unless there was something in terms of the mo or
Speaker 5: the signature of the killer. Now we've kind of skipped
Speaker 5: over this. The women were found in the water, but
Speaker 5: what was the condition? Were they sexually assaulted? Tell us
Speaker 5: the condition and some of the things that were found
Speaker 5: with the bodies themselves that would be considered a signature
Speaker 5: of a killer.
Speaker 8: Well, the bodies themselves were stripped below the waste and
Speaker 8: they were tied together and down with concrete blocks. So
Speaker 8: it was a police's destination that these women were raped.
Speaker 8: So that's a pretty strong connection to another rape. That
Speaker 8: rape didn't end in murder, but this one did, and
Speaker 8: they thought that that was a strong samiliarity between the two.
Speaker 5: But the condition to know of the bodies were that
Speaker 5: the cinder block there was a rope around their neck
Speaker 5: and cinder blocks used to weigh them down. But they
Speaker 5: were also bound and gagged, or at least that was
Speaker 5: the conclusion that you said that the police had that
Speaker 5: they were bound and gagged, that the one of the
Speaker 5: victims had wrangled free of I guess the rope that
Speaker 5: was bound or whatever bound her hands, but their hands
Speaker 5: and feet were bound. And then you say in the
Speaker 5: article as well that which more horrifying was that police
Speaker 5: believed that they were thrown overboard alive.
Speaker 8: Yes, they police believe that they were thrown overboard alive,
Speaker 8: one by one. So they had to see their mother
Speaker 8: and their daughter basically tortured and then thrown overboard. Knew
Speaker 8: they were going to be next and that is a
Speaker 8: horrifying thing if I've ever heard one.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: Another thing that we went over which was surprising to
Speaker 5: me because he really depict how as this hard working
Speaker 5: farmer in Ohio, But there was a reason why he
Speaker 5: ends up being in the same group as almost everyone else.
Speaker 5: When a murder like this happens, the police immediately have
Speaker 5: to rule out suspects, and one of the more likely
Speaker 5: suspects in cases like this is is the husband. Now,
Speaker 5: even though he was not anywhere near the crime scene,
Speaker 5: he was still asked for a polygraph, so I'll ask
Speaker 5: you what the result of that polygraph was. But why,
Speaker 5: given Hol's demeanor and that he was on this farm
Speaker 5: and those records can be very verifiable, what made them
Speaker 5: suspect that he may have had something to do with
Speaker 5: the murder? There was something with a bank account. Tell
Speaker 5: us what that one event that Hal did that made
Speaker 5: the police a little bit initially suspicious.
Speaker 8: Well, like you said, a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 8: the spouse has been on my own suspect, and you're
Speaker 8: correct in this case, how it was they had to
Speaker 8: rule him out. And when you're talking about murdering your family,
Speaker 8: you know a lot of times there's some monetary game.
Speaker 8: So they checked out on whether had Hal had life
Speaker 8: insurance on the girls, and he did, but it really
Speaker 8: wasn't enough, you know, to raise suspicion. What really surprised
Speaker 8: the police was they found out that he withdrew seven
Speaker 8: thousand dollars cash from his bank account between the time
Speaker 8: where the they were killed and he was notified of
Speaker 8: the murder. So police were suspicious he might have been,
Speaker 8: you know, hired a hym man to kill the girls,
Speaker 8: because would he have withdraw such a large amount of cash?
Speaker 5: Did they ask him why he withdrew the cash. What
Speaker 5: was his reason for withdrawing the cash.
Speaker 8: Well, he told them that basically he was through without
Speaker 8: money for travel because he you know, he had talked
Speaker 8: to the police several times and nothing ever happened, and
Speaker 8: so he was going to go start his own search.
Speaker 8: And he initially he wanted what he wanted to do
Speaker 8: is hire a private pilot and fly down the interstate
Speaker 8: from Ohio to Ford. And since he could find them.
Speaker 8: The next day, they found out, you know, he found
Speaker 8: out that they were dead.
Speaker 7: So there's nothing he could do. So police said, okay,
Speaker 7: well that's good, you know, that makes sense. But where's
Speaker 7: the money now?
Speaker 8: So they thought they would trip him up. You know,
Speaker 8: where's the money now? So how calm We walked him
Speaker 8: over to his truck and opened up the glub box
Speaker 8: of his truck and there were six thousand dollars cash
Speaker 8: in the glub box, and then he pulled one thousand
Speaker 8: out of his pocket.
Speaker 5: Well, that should have ended, that should have ended the questioning,
Speaker 5: but they still asked them, just for good measure, to
Speaker 5: ask them for a polygraph, just for a polygraph.
Speaker 8: And then he agreed because he had nothing in the
Speaker 8: hide and he took the polygraph.
Speaker 2: And he passed right.
Speaker 8: So based on that they eliminated him as a suspect.
Speaker 8: From then on, they decided the killer was in Florida,
Speaker 8: and so they wanted to you know, cocas on Florida.
Speaker 5: Now, tell our audience again, what was it exactly? Who
Speaker 5: was the person who was it exactly that made the connection,
Speaker 5: because it's not that it's not that easy a connection,
Speaker 5: Like you say, someone is raped and these three people
Speaker 5: end up in the water. So tell us who made
Speaker 5: that connection that there was some similarities between these these cases.
Speaker 5: Who was the person responsible for making the connection between
Speaker 5: the Canadian tourist that was raped and these three women
Speaker 5: and eventual suspect.
Speaker 8: Well, there was a woman named Joey and Steffie in
Speaker 8: Tampa and she ever since she met her neighbor, she
Speaker 8: always had, you know, the bad feeling about him. And
Speaker 8: when the media re least the competite of the Canadian
Speaker 8: tourist rape suspect, she had pastored that on her refreerator
Speaker 8: because that the rape suspect looked just like her neighbor, right,
Speaker 8: and that really freaked her out. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 8: one time she was in her kitchen. She looked out
Speaker 8: her window and she saw him standing on her sidewalk
Speaker 8: and they locked eyes for about ten minutes before he
Speaker 8: walked away, and it just gave her the creeps, and
Speaker 8: she knew, oh, this was the guy, so she figured
Speaker 8: that he was the murderer as well. She just had
Speaker 8: a feeling.
Speaker 5: So when police made the connection that they were looking
Speaker 5: for the same person as the suspect in the rape case,
Speaker 5: is if that's when she was even more confirmed of
Speaker 5: her suspicions.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 8: That is correct? And she had actually notified police several
Speaker 8: times that she thought that this was the guy, but
Speaker 8: due to you the overwhelming number of tips, it just
Speaker 8: got locked in the shuffle. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 8: she even she was taking some night classes in one
Speaker 8: of her classmates with the Hillsborough County deputy and she
Speaker 8: told him the same thing, but nothing ever came of
Speaker 8: that either. So finally, uh, a connection came to her.
Speaker 8: Her neighbor who had, by the way, since moved away.
Speaker 8: He'd been gone for two years from the neighborhood. He
Speaker 8: you know, he he did some handiwork, and her neighbor
Speaker 8: and a different neighbor hired this guy to do some
Speaker 8: maintenance on her house. So she figured, yes, they must
Speaker 8: have signed some sort of contract and we can check out,
Speaker 8: well to see that guy's handwriting is similar to the
Speaker 8: handwriting that the police are looking for. Right, So she
Speaker 8: went to her neighbor and they searched their house and
Speaker 8: actually they found the They did find a contract, and
Speaker 8: they found a check that the guy had signed the
Speaker 8: back of and know was a perfect match. They just
Speaker 8: knew what they knew what So once again she started
Speaker 8: calling the police letting them know, and actually she got
Speaker 8: permission to fax over the documents, so she faxed them
Speaker 8: over to the police and again nothing ever really came
Speaker 8: of it.
Speaker 5: And what was her reaction to this, this neglect from
Speaker 5: the police, Well.
Speaker 8: She actually a couple of weeks later, they bumped the
Speaker 8: reward up from five thousand to twenty five thousand, they
Speaker 8: started circulating the handwritten directions again. Well that really made
Speaker 8: her mad. So she basically called them up and said,
Speaker 8: what are you people doing? You know you have all
Speaker 8: this information, why haven't you followed up on it? And
Speaker 8: she basically said, do you know what you're doing?
Speaker 2: Police?
Speaker 8: You know, and and her and her neighbor they happened
Speaker 8: to know one of the local district attorneys. So they
Speaker 8: he wrote a letter on their behalf and then they
Speaker 8: called in again and they sent it all over and
Speaker 8: actually the person who answered the phone and took it
Speaker 8: to the the detective the sergeant himself, and said, hey,
Speaker 8: look this it's pretty similar to me. What do he thinks?
Speaker 8: So he said, yeah, it does look similar, but why
Speaker 8: don't you send out the deputy to pick up the original.
Speaker 8: So that's what they did, and so they went out
Speaker 8: and got the original copy and they kept going over
Speaker 8: it and they found out the guy's name. The guy's
Speaker 8: name was Oba Chandler.
Speaker 5: And what was Oba Chandler was? Was he familiar to
Speaker 5: the police.
Speaker 8: Well, see, that was the thing. When they whooked him
Speaker 8: up in the computer system, it was like a jackpot.
Speaker 8: That guy had a rap.
Speaker 7: Sheet him along ever since he was young.
Speaker 8: He had everything you know, from drug charges, weapons charges, kidnapping.
Speaker 8: And that's when they found out some really interesting things
Speaker 8: about him.
Speaker 2: He micro such as.
Speaker 8: A dark suv, which is what they were looking for, right.
Speaker 8: He also had a bloom boat with white trim, that
Speaker 8: is what they were looking for. And he actually lived
Speaker 8: to and a half miles away from the place, the
Speaker 8: boat dock where the writers women were killed.
Speaker 5: Right, So how did police proceed once they had this information.
Speaker 8: Well, they found out where he lived in Port Orange, Florida,
Speaker 8: which is on the east coast of Florida, and they
Speaker 8: put him in the constant surveillance. They wired topped his phone,
Speaker 8: They had police officers, you know, following him everywhere he went,
Speaker 8: even had an FBI donated a It is.
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Speaker 8: Airplane fly over his house twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 8: pay up high And they really didn't have much evidence
Speaker 8: for murder, but they wanted to get this guy behind bar.
Speaker 8: So they decided they would, you know, put out a
Speaker 8: warrant to arrest him for the rape of the Canadian tourist. Right,
Speaker 8: But they did.
Speaker 5: And what proceeded when he was questioned, Obviously they try
Speaker 5: to get a confession if they can. They tried to
Speaker 5: determine information. What was the interrogation, Like what did the
Speaker 5: police net from that interrogation?
Speaker 8: Oh, initially they didn't really get anything from him because
Speaker 8: he knew the game. I mean, he just said he
Speaker 8: need fucked my attorneys. But he did ask him what
Speaker 8: am I being arrested for? And they said sexual assault?
Speaker 8: So he got a big grin on his face because
Speaker 8: he thought he was.
Speaker 5: Getting away with the murder, right, And how did they
Speaker 5: proceed with this murder charge? He was he was charged
Speaker 5: for the rape.
Speaker 8: He was held for the rape. Well, they built a
Speaker 8: case against him for the murder, I see. And what
Speaker 8: they did was they flew the Canadian tourists down so
Speaker 8: identify him. So first the Canadian tourists identified him to
Speaker 8: photographs up in Canada, and then they flew her down
Speaker 8: and she identified him in the lineup.
Speaker 5: Is that that seems a little odd that procedure to
Speaker 5: show somebody. Was that that was all legitimate in terms
Speaker 5: of because it seems odd that they would Was it
Speaker 5: it just a lineup of photos though? Or was it
Speaker 5: photos of Ob Chandler?
Speaker 7: They had showed him a bunch of different people's photos.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's the guy.
Speaker 5: So it was a positive identification. And and the rape
Speaker 5: victim was willing to testify and was it was going
Speaker 5: to be a good witness.
Speaker 8: Yep. That was how they were starting to base the
Speaker 8: cake on that particular witness.
Speaker 5: And now how did they sorry, how did they proceed
Speaker 5: with building the case for the three murders of the
Speaker 5: Rogers family.
Speaker 8: Well, they started interviewing, you know, everybody they can think of,
Speaker 8: all of Chandler's relatives. And they found out that one
Speaker 8: of his daughters. Back in nineteen eighty nine, when the
Speaker 8: when the competite of the rape suspects first went out, right,
Speaker 8: he then visited his daughter in Ohio unexpectedly, and while
Speaker 8: he was there, he told her that he had raped
Speaker 8: some women. He also told her that he had murdered
Speaker 8: some women. I had murdered some women. So that was
Speaker 8: what they using that information, they filed the murder chargers
Speaker 8: against him. His own the testimony of his daughter.
Speaker 5: Wow, was there any did did your investigation? Did you
Speaker 5: find any reason why the daughter obviously had this information,
Speaker 5: but why she decided to admit to it at that time?
Speaker 5: Was there some bad feeling between the father and the
Speaker 5: daughter or well?
Speaker 8: Chandler had many different children, and you know, he didn't
Speaker 8: have a good relationship with most of them. And she
Speaker 8: was actually pretty appalled and shaken up by what he was,
Speaker 8: you know, but what he was told. But she didn't
Speaker 8: really know that he really did it. You know, I
Speaker 8: see no blowing smoke. But she kept it on her mind,
Speaker 8: and as soon as police contacted her, she definitely told
Speaker 8: him right away.
Speaker 5: Did he indicate why the any motive whatsoever for the
Speaker 5: rape or or for the rape and murders of the
Speaker 5: Rogers family? Did he give any motive whatsoever to his daughter?
Speaker 8: No, he did not. He did not say why he
Speaker 8: did it. He just told her that he did it.
Speaker 5: Now he was being prosecuted in Florida. Now that's a
Speaker 5: death penalty state, Am I not correct?
Speaker 8: That death tract?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 5: How were how was the district attorney originally going to
Speaker 5: proceed with this? In his in his mind in the
Speaker 5: state's mind the disc Chandler qualify for the death penalty.
Speaker 8: Well, the defense attorney was gonna his strategy was basically, yeah,
Speaker 8: he raped the Canadian tourists. Sure, a problem there, but
Speaker 8: he's gonna say, you know that you don't have any
Speaker 8: proof whatsoever that he did anything to the Rogers woman.
Speaker 8: And now it's his defense.
Speaker 7: And and you know, they had an evidence.
Speaker 8: His handwriting on the brochure. And the defense strategy was, yeah,
Speaker 8: he did give them.
Speaker 2: Directions, I see, but you know he.
Speaker 8: Saw them for five minutes right on the street and
Speaker 8: that was it.
Speaker 5: Now, how did the prosecution proceed? They they had the
Speaker 5: testimony of the daughter. Am I not correct? They had
Speaker 5: they had the Canadian tourists testifying. Tell us what you know,
Speaker 5: how did they proceed with their case? What was their
Speaker 5: big strength? Well? Who were their star witnesses?
Speaker 8: Well, they didn't really have any physical evidence per se, right,
Speaker 8: their detriment, but because of course, when someone's in the
Speaker 8: water for three days, they kind of washed everything away.
Speaker 8: Sure it's hard enough to you know, convict somebody when
Speaker 8: they killed someone in the clothes room. But what they
Speaker 8: did was they found Chandler's boat and they bought it.
Speaker 8: The police bought it for evidence, and they went over
Speaker 8: that boat from had to tell found out everything they
Speaker 8: could about it. And while they were researching, they pulled
Speaker 8: all his phone wreckers, Chandler's phone wreckers, right, and they
Speaker 8: found that there were some inbound calls to his house
Speaker 8: on the night of the murders and the night of
Speaker 8: the rape. There the stage phone number. They didn't they
Speaker 8: didn't know what it was. You know, it didn't sound
Speaker 8: like any phone number they'd ever heard of. So they
Speaker 8: delve deeper into it, and actually I found out there
Speaker 8: was a marine phone number. Basically, what that means is
Speaker 8: someone's on a boat calling on the radio and the
Speaker 8: radio person patches them into the phone system and sends
Speaker 8: them to their house.
Speaker 5: So okay, and.
Speaker 8: So when the marine operator takes the phone call, they
Speaker 8: she has to take down the name of the boat
Speaker 8: and the name of the caller.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 8: So each time that these phone calls came in, the
Speaker 8: name of the boat they found was the name of
Speaker 8: Tandler's boat, and the person who was calling in was
Speaker 8: either Oba or Obi, which is one of his nicknames.
Speaker 8: So this evidence put him on the water on the
Speaker 8: times of.
Speaker 2: The murder and the time of the rape, I see.
Speaker 8: And that was they're big piece of evidence that they
Speaker 8: were going to try to get him out right, And.
Speaker 5: Of course the defense tries everything they can in the
Speaker 5: kitchen sink, but that was so they had a largely
Speaker 5: circumstantial case sort of the prior methodology we'll say, for
Speaker 5: the rape, so that it is in the jury's mind
Speaker 5: that this could be a certain possibility. And so the
Speaker 5: defense obviously wasn't successful with their defense. And what was
Speaker 5: the outcome of the trial itself.
Speaker 8: Well, what happened was they put the Canadian tourist on
Speaker 8: the span and she gave her testimony, and you know,
Speaker 8: it was a horrible testimony, was very upsetting. And the
Speaker 8: problem was the for the defense anyway, was that the
Speaker 8: jury believed her right and they believed that Chandler. If
Speaker 8: Chandler could rap for her, certainly he could do what.
Speaker 8: You know, he was a kids of the.
Speaker 2: Murder m hm.
Speaker 8: So basically what they did was the prosecutor started talking
Speaker 8: to him about what were you doing on the water
Speaker 8: this night, you know, if you weren't ripping and killing
Speaker 8: his women, what were you doing. Well he just said
Speaker 8: he was out fishing. Well, why did you keep calling
Speaker 8: his wife at home because he said he had a
Speaker 8: problem with his boat. And so basically the strategy was
Speaker 8: they weren't going to, you know, question that they wanted
Speaker 8: to actually expound on his boat trouble and see if
Speaker 8: they could catch him with that testimony, and they did Chandler.
Speaker 8: Chandler described that he is there's gas leaking out of
Speaker 8: his engine a certain way, and he taped it up,
Speaker 8: and while the gas was in the engine, Centaly started it.
Speaker 8: So once he got off the stand, they call up
Speaker 8: some witnesses which pretty much testified that there's no way
Speaker 8: his boat could now function that way.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 5: So they dismissed that it was a Do you believe
Speaker 5: that it was Oba Chandler that decided that he would
Speaker 5: take the stand in his own defense or was it
Speaker 5: his lawyers that advised him to take the stand in
Speaker 5: his own defense because maybe he didn't have anything to lose,
Speaker 5: and if he did want to explain any of these
Speaker 5: fanciful tales, he would have to get on the stand
Speaker 5: and utter them himself. What would you think was do
Speaker 5: you think it was a strategy or was it Why
Speaker 5: do you think he took the stand?
Speaker 8: It was a strategy. During most of the trial, Chandler
Speaker 8: just sat around and acted like the trial was just
Speaker 8: a big news sense and now he's pretty much an
Speaker 8: outside observer to it. And the strategy for the defense
Speaker 8: was he was going to go on the stand and
Speaker 8: pretty much say, how dare you use me of these
Speaker 8: terrible things? But that's not what happened. When he got
Speaker 8: on the stand, he started asking the questions about.
Speaker 2: The boat I see, and they used that to secure
Speaker 2: a condition.
Speaker 5: So the jury he was not a convincing witness, and
Speaker 5: the witnesses for the prosecution were convincing to the jury.
Speaker 5: How long did it take for the jury to make
Speaker 5: their decision?
Speaker 8: It took him just eighty minutes to render him European.
Speaker 2: All three councils murder, right, So what was his sentence?
Speaker 8: He was sentenced to death November fourth of nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 5: And then Florida. If people don't know, Florida is one
Speaker 5: of those states that gets executions done in a timely fashion.
Speaker 2: Isn't it not really.
Speaker 5: Well compared to some states?
Speaker 8: Welcome here in some states? That is correct. But you know, Chandler,
Speaker 8: did you know go through the pos sure had several
Speaker 8: appeals and basically all his field are denied.
Speaker 7: Certainly twenty eleven, just three months ago he was put
Speaker 7: to death.
Speaker 5: Was there much fanfare over his trial? Was there much coverage?
Speaker 5: Did he make any statements or his defense make any
Speaker 5: statements before the execution?
Speaker 8: They there, it was a big thing down here. They
Speaker 8: asked him or if he had any final words, and
Speaker 8: he said no. How did show up for the execution?
Speaker 7: He originally was not going to go, right, He considered that,
Speaker 7: you know, he's had.
Speaker 8: Enough of his life with this guy. He didn't need
Speaker 8: to come and see him die. Well, his niece decided
Speaker 8: she wanted to go, so shudn't. He didn't want her
Speaker 8: to go by himself, so.
Speaker 2: He decided to go to.
Speaker 8: So how Watton died.
Speaker 5: Was Did Hal attend the trial as well?
Speaker 8: Yes? He did.
Speaker 5: What was How's demeanor the trial? And you mentioned just
Speaker 5: a little bit about oba Chandler's behavior at trial? Well
Speaker 5: what was how? What was his demeanor like at trial?
Speaker 5: Was his reaction?
Speaker 8: How is this? Pretty much quiet? And he didn't really
Speaker 8: say much. He just watched. And that was one of
Speaker 8: the reasons why some people thought he had something to
Speaker 8: do with the murder, because you're very unemotional and you're
Speaker 8: very robotic in the way he moved and talked and
Speaker 8: everything like that. But you know some you know, different
Speaker 8: people do different different ways, and the family that's the
Speaker 8: way he did it.
Speaker 5: Right now, Oba Chandler. Did he have any after he
Speaker 5: was arrested? Of course, he went through the appeal process.
Speaker 2: Was it.
Speaker 5: Did he grant any interviews? Was he talking about his innocence?
Speaker 5: Was anything noteworthy at all after the trial in terms
Speaker 5: of any statements by Oba Chandler.
Speaker 8: Well, he always made his innocence. He didn't, I mean,
Speaker 8: once he was sentenced and he was in prison, he
Speaker 8: didn't really granted in the interviews.
Speaker 7: But what he did do.
Speaker 8: On the day of his execution, you know, they asked
Speaker 8: him if he did, you know, had any last words.
Speaker 8: He said no, but he had left a note in
Speaker 8: his cell that they found after his execution that said,
Speaker 8: you're you are executing an innocent man.
Speaker 2: Today. I see the end.
Speaker 5: But in no one's mind was this man was not innocent?
Speaker 2: He is not.
Speaker 8: Nobody believed, I mean even his own family, you know,
Speaker 8: believed he did it.
Speaker 5: So insummation, would you say this case a very interesting
Speaker 5: case in that if it weren't for some people, you know,
Speaker 5: to me, and maybe you can explain, uh, maybe you
Speaker 5: can disagree with this or agree with this. I'm not sure.
Speaker 5: But the maid and really crucial person in this story,
Speaker 5: the maid that saw the newscast that said to her manager,
Speaker 5: so that this thing happened fairly quickly. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 5: you know, a person's missing, and then there's three people
Speaker 5: in a hotel room. Some people might have missed that
Speaker 5: connection completely despite you know, nobody being around that hotel room.
Speaker 5: You can you can disagree or agree with me, but
Speaker 5: I think that's that not that unusual. So I think
Speaker 5: it's pretty profound that this maid made this connection, this
Speaker 5: Stephanie woman, Thank God for her. How persistent this woman was,
Speaker 5: you know, being dismissed by police, well, I.
Speaker 8: Would think that, you know, if if the maid hadn't
Speaker 8: spoken up, it probably just would have gone unoticed. It
Speaker 8: probably would have just checked her out from the hotel
Speaker 8: and Stefanie. She's very persistent, and you know they acted.
Speaker 8: That's creators. You know, why did it take you so
Speaker 8: long to fall upon this lead? And he's in the investigator,
Speaker 8: you know, Sergeant Moore, he said, I understand, but you know,
Speaker 8: we had so many leads. Every single person told us
Speaker 8: that they had the guy right, so you know, it's
Speaker 8: kind of hard for them to quantify exactly which, you know,
Speaker 8: which one lead, which one weren't.
Speaker 5: And the other connection too, was the Canadian tourist being
Speaker 5: raped and somebody making that connection. So that was that good?
Speaker 5: Was that good police work? It was?
Speaker 8: And I can tell you one humor the type of
Speaker 8: thing about that. Once they want the police focused on Chandler,
Speaker 8: Sergeant Moore had a meeting with all the team and
Speaker 8: sat down and told them, Okay, this is our suspect.
Speaker 8: This we're going to go after. This is why we
Speaker 8: think it's him. And at the end of the meeting
Speaker 8: he asked his team if anybody had any questions. Well,
Speaker 8: they an office assistant made a connection that no one
Speaker 8: else even bother to look at. She said, you guys
Speaker 8: know that this guy because they had his lugshot from
Speaker 8: all the times he's been interested. This guy looks just
Speaker 8: like the composite. Wow, And they go, wow, you know what,
Speaker 8: you're right he does. Nobody had even checked that checked
Speaker 8: the two potas together to see.
Speaker 5: You know. What's interesting too, is that I've seen a
Speaker 5: lot of composite drawings and they're not that close to
Speaker 5: the eventual perpetrator. So for somebody to again a good
Speaker 5: police work getting an artist and also the witness as
Speaker 5: well to say, you know, this is what this guy
Speaker 5: really looks like. You know, it's incredible really for that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the composition, but if you had seen the composite,
Speaker 8: it definitely definitely looks like him, I mean to the
Speaker 8: tea almost.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's incredible, incredibly all these forces were there to
Speaker 5: to help identify these three women, and and you did
Speaker 5: a good job of portraying these people as just three
Speaker 5: you know, just a family, a simple folk, you know,
Speaker 5: hard working dairy farmers here trying to get away, cram
Speaker 5: in a vacation of a lifetime in a few days
Speaker 5: and met their unfortunate fate with this uh, this killer
Speaker 5: was there any.
Speaker 8: It's a funny thing because originally they weren't going to
Speaker 8: go Afford at all. Right, They had a couple of
Speaker 8: different places they were going to go, but then they decided,
Speaker 8: you know what, if we're going to spend all this money,
Speaker 8: why the where we actually want to go? And that's
Speaker 8: what they have settled on, Florida.
Speaker 5: What do you surmise was the ruse used by oba
Speaker 5: Chandler to have these women come with him or what?
Speaker 5: How do you think he proceeded with these women to
Speaker 5: abduct him.
Speaker 8: Oh, basically he's a you know, a very charming types
Speaker 8: of guy. I mean that's and then went I in
Speaker 8: line with the SBI profiles that they made of the
Speaker 8: killer is you know, a very charming person. And the
Speaker 8: Canadian tourists you know, testified of how he was with
Speaker 8: her and basically, you know, he earned their trust by
Speaker 8: you know, he met him and he didn't go off
Speaker 8: and right away he made plans to go out with
Speaker 8: the boat and like he went out with him a
Speaker 8: couple of times at least, you know, for a couple
Speaker 8: of days. He took him out like in the morning,
Speaker 8: in the evening and the morning and evening right to
Speaker 8: kind of you know, lear him in the confidence with
Speaker 8: him and and once they trusted him, and I was it.
Speaker 5: What do you I'm not sure if you've done any
Speaker 5: of this of your interested in this sort of psychological profiling,
Speaker 5: but this guy's not your ordinary killer.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: Obviously a sexual component here as well. Why do you
Speaker 5: think he picked these three women just because they were vulnerable. Obviously,
Speaker 5: there's children, there's there's a grown woman, there's you know,
Speaker 5: a child, a fourteen year old, and then well.
Speaker 8: I think, you know, I think the one thing I
Speaker 8: think he liked the sexual thrill of it, because you know,
Speaker 8: he had raped other people. But also I think what
Speaker 8: he really liked was, you know, victimized him more than
Speaker 8: one person, because the Canadian tourist had a friend that
Speaker 8: was supposed to go with her on the U and
Speaker 8: she never went. And actually he got a bit agitated
Speaker 8: about that that the woman came by herself. So we
Speaker 8: think that, you know, having multiple victims is definitely something
Speaker 8: that he wanted to do.
Speaker 5: That's very interesting. It's almost like a Ted Bundy in
Speaker 5: the End, where Ted Bundy had to rape a couple
Speaker 5: of women in one day. It's not so typical that
Speaker 5: a perpetrator will try to do something as daring as
Speaker 5: get control and take control and rape multiple people just
Speaker 5: because it's it's just not the safest thing to probably
Speaker 5: do with with compounding how many people could possibly you know,
Speaker 5: if you've got three people, it's just three times it's
Speaker 5: hard to control them.
Speaker 8: Ah, But he's he's their fear of see he picked tourists,
Speaker 8: I believe because uh, he's definitely found out to be
Speaker 8: a tourists before he took them out right, he used
Speaker 8: that against them, and he the fact that they were
Speaker 8: on the water, and he made sure to do this
Speaker 8: at night, by the way, he killed them at nighttime.
Speaker 8: So he's there, you know, fear of they don't know
Speaker 8: where they are, Okay, they use the fear of the water.
Speaker 8: Now they're out in a ghost And he even said,
Speaker 8: he said, the Canadian tourists, you can't seem all you want.
Speaker 8: Who's going to hear you out here? And he also
Speaker 8: told her what are you going to do? Jump buff
Speaker 8: the boat and swim to wear.
Speaker 5: Which one of the Rogers family, don or Michelle or Christy,
Speaker 5: which one had the fear of water?
Speaker 8: Well, Joe had the most fear of water. She didn't
Speaker 8: like anything over her head, not even pointing. And Christy,
Speaker 8: like we said, the youngest. We believe that was the
Speaker 8: first time she ever stepped foot in a boat was
Speaker 8: in Sore Spring when she went to the glass bottom boat.
Speaker 8: And we think we shall only went on a boat
Speaker 8: once in her life.
Speaker 5: You know, It's interesting to me somewhat is that they
Speaker 5: seemed to try to conquer their fear with the long
Speaker 5: boat ride or Joan tried to you know, overcome that, say, oh,
Speaker 5: I don't want to be wishy washy, let's go on
Speaker 5: this fantastic trip. And I'm afraid of water. But I'm
Speaker 5: looking at the bottom of the of the ocean here,
Speaker 5: or I'm looking through the glass boat. And then to
Speaker 5: be thrown alive with a cinder block tied around your neck, bound,
Speaker 5: and after you've been raped, bound and tied, thrown into
Speaker 5: the water, to drowned in the in the water that
Speaker 5: you fear the most. It's especially.
Speaker 8: And you know, the bad part of it is, you
Speaker 8: know one of them had gotten her onmoose from the
Speaker 8: from the rope, right. That's that's proof that, yes, they
Speaker 8: were alive when they went over.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I didn't think of that too. But it
Speaker 5: also is testament to their you know, undefeatable spirit as well.
Speaker 5: But they were right to the end trying to I mean,
Speaker 5: they couldn't have been that naive. They knew what was
Speaker 5: going on. They wanted to live, that's that's certain. So
Speaker 5: they were trying to escape. They were trying to get
Speaker 5: out from the predicament that they were in. I wanted
Speaker 5: to ask you Fred this this story Oba Chandler and
Speaker 5: the Murder of the Rogers family. Uh, do you also
Speaker 5: call this also have a title for this called tourist
Speaker 5: trap or tourist trap.
Speaker 8: It's called tourist trap, Oba Tandler and the Murder of
Speaker 8: the Rogers Family.
Speaker 5: I see, and this is featured. Yeah, and this is
Speaker 5: featured in Suspense Suspense magazine and it appears today, does
Speaker 5: it said?
Speaker 8: You can go online and check it out right now,
Speaker 8: spencemagazine dot com.
Speaker 5: Tell us what suspense magazine? Because I thought it very interesting?
Speaker 5: Tell us what suspense magazine sort of includes? Not only
Speaker 5: true crime stories like this, but what else does it
Speaker 5: include on this online magazine Suspense magazine.
Speaker 8: The majority of the Spense magazine is fiction, and they
Speaker 8: have all kinds of you know, horror, suspense, mystery type
Speaker 8: of short stories in the magazine. I see, and you
Speaker 8: know they the editor wanted to do some true crime
Speaker 8: and so that's why you picked my oracle. We wanted
Speaker 8: to kind of focus on that.
Speaker 6: For a while.
Speaker 5: Now, what what made you what compelled you to or
Speaker 5: interested you to write this? To handle this story and
Speaker 5: then write this article for suspense magazine. What was it
Speaker 5: about this story? Is it that that compelled you to
Speaker 5: write about it?
Speaker 8: Well, to me, it's a local story because I live
Speaker 8: in Tampa Bay. I the murders happened in Tampa Bay,
Speaker 8: So I lived in my own backyard. I mean the
Speaker 8: boat dock where they left off. I mean I drive
Speaker 8: past that all the time. I know exactly where the
Speaker 8: daven Hotel is, I know where Taylor's house is. So
Speaker 8: to me, it's just very chilling that this kind of
Speaker 8: thing could happened in my own town.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And uh for those that are that have listened
Speaker 5: to the program and will look up to your article
Speaker 5: and uh, suspense magazine, Suspense magazine, jeez, I have problems
Speaker 5: with that. What else are you? What else do you
Speaker 5: have planned in terms of true crime? Because that's what
Speaker 5: our audience is here, true murder, the most shocking killers
Speaker 5: in true crime history. What exactly are you interested next
Speaker 5: in terms of or are you having any other plans
Speaker 5: for any other true crime stories?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 8: Actually, right now I'm researching a couple of different ones
Speaker 8: to see what I'm gonna write about next. I'd like
Speaker 8: to focus on Florida because there's a lot of crazy
Speaker 8: stuff that happens in Florida.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Weed Bundy, I mean, you know, and.
Speaker 8: You know that this particular case, you know, I think
Speaker 8: it's about worse as bad as it gets, really.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean it is. It's it's got some interesting dynamic.
Speaker 5: When you have a daughter and a mother and another
Speaker 5: sister being raped in front of each other and then
Speaker 5: thrown overboard alive, bound and gagged. That's very very unusual.
Speaker 5: And then given the who they are and who they
Speaker 5: meet up with, it's just it is a particularly horrifying
Speaker 5: crime and horrifying story. And we really do feel for Hell,
Speaker 5: you know, poor Hell, you know, And what can you say?
Speaker 5: He went through hell and lost his family and you'll
Speaker 5: never be the same, that's for certain.
Speaker 8: Yeah. And actually he has remarried since then. But interestingly
Speaker 8: the woman he married has the same name Joe. Actually
Speaker 8: it's Joan. Well, let me Marriad another person named Joan.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, and at the funeral you talk about the
Speaker 5: funeral too, that was well attended. They had a lot
Speaker 5: of friends and family.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the church was overflowing and the actually it was
Speaker 8: good then because they they made the TV for Stay
Speaker 8: Outside Chapel. They wouldn't let him come into an actual funeral,
Speaker 8: all right, And actually after the so they had the
Speaker 8: funeral and then they went for the for the burial.
Speaker 8: And after the burial, how I went back into the
Speaker 8: church and it Satlin himself for a long time, just
Speaker 8: there being quiet. Then he went and work on a cross.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had to get back to work that. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Incredible. So vacation gone horribly wrong. Wow. Well, I want
Speaker 5: to thank you very much Fred for this interview. It's
Speaker 5: been very very interesting. I want to tell people again
Speaker 5: that the article is called Tourist Trap, Oba Chandler and
Speaker 5: the Murder of the Rogers Family by Fred Schrum the Third.
Speaker 5: So thank you. I want to say thank you very
Speaker 5: much Fred for coming onto the program and for those
Speaker 5: people listening pardon me.
Speaker 8: You can also check out fred Trum dot com.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, thank you very much for that. And you
Speaker 5: also have a Facebook page as well, so if you
Speaker 5: want a friend Fred, you can get on his Facebook
Speaker 5: page and keep up on information as well. So there's
Speaker 5: a couple of ways of being in contact with you
Speaker 5: and keeping up on recent developments.
Speaker 8: All right, Well, Dan, I appreciate the interview. Thank you
Speaker 8: very much.
Speaker 5: Well, I want to thank you Fred, and for those listening,
Speaker 5: you've been listening to the program True Murder, the most
Speaker 5: shocking killers in true crime history, and the authors have
Speaker 5: written about them, and we've been talking about the Tourist Trap,
Speaker 5: Oprah Chandler and the murder of the Rogers Family by
Speaker 5: Fred Schrom the third. Thank you very much, Fred, have
Speaker 5: a good evening, Good night,