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At casino dot com. 23 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.439 Bill protest where I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus. 24 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:18.319 Host, you are now listening to True Murder, The most 25 00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:21.719 Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors that 26 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:28.000 have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 27 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:32.719 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:36.879 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:52.079 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This 30 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.040 is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, 31 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.959 The most shocking Killers in True crime History and the 32 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.680 authors that have written about them. On June fourth, nineteen 33 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:05.879 eighty nine, the bodies of Joe, Michelle and Christy Rogers 34 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.199 were found floating in the serene waters of Tampa Bay, Florida. 35 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:12.520 They were stripped below the waist, bound and tied to 36 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:16.319 concrete blocks. They were going on vacation. It was a 37 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.560 trip that may seem normal to some, but to the 38 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.280 Rogers family was a trip of a lifetime. They were 39 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:24.560 going to Florida to make some memories, but Florida would 40 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.759 literally become a furist trap for Joe, Michelle and Christy. 41 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.000 They would not make it home alive. The Rogers women 42 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.560 were going to experience Florida in the classic fashion. They 43 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.599 would color their days with beaches, attractions, and maybe even 44 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.000 a visit to Mickey Mouse. This would be a welcome 45 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.000 respite from their daily grind. Spent on a three hundred 46 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.879 acre dairy farm in Ohio, they were determined to enjoy 47 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:48.520 every moment. There were still no fresh leads by the 48 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:51.840 spring of nineteen ninety two, Moore decided to push harder 49 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.639 with the media. He released information from a psychological profile 50 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.560 that was prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The 51 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.800 reward was raised to twenty five five thousand dollars. More 52 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:05.280 held press conferences and held and had the case featured 53 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:09.599 on such programs national television programs as Unsolved Mysteries and 54 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:15.639 Diabolical Minds Case Studies. Something Click. This time, Joanne Stephie 55 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:17.840 of Tampa was convinced that her neighbor was the killer. 56 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.000 Police did not act on Stephie's tip initially, but she 57 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.759 was persistent and police finally made the arrest of Oba 58 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.960 Chandler that year. Oba Chandler and the murder of the 59 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.520 Rogers family is the focus of our program this evening 60 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.360 with my special guest, journalist and author Fred Schrum. The 61 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.560 third Welcome to the program, and thank you to this interview. 62 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.080 Fred Schrum, thank you Dan. 63 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:41.159 Good to talk to you tonight. 64 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:45.879 Good talking with you. I can't quite hear you, so 65 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.719 if you have any control of your volume, if you 66 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:53.360 could please anyway, thank you very much for agreeing to 67 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.360 this interview. A very interesting story. Now tell us a 68 00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:59.560 little bit, because I don't think the intro really did 69 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.840 justice to explaining very much. But this is quite a 70 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.560 complex story. Tell us a little bit about who Joan, 71 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:10.800 Michelle and Christy Rogers were, and hell, tell us a 72 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.039 little bit about who these people were. Who was the mother, 73 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.959 who was the daughter, what were their ages? Who is 74 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.519 how and tell us a little bit about the Rogers family. 75 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:24.439 Okay, Well, Joe Rogers was thirty six, She was the 76 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:31.480 mother of the family. Christy was the second oldest, and 77 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.680 I'm sorry, Michelle was the second oldest. She was about 78 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.000 seventeen and Christy was fourteen. Their father was how he 79 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.680 was thirty seven, and they were a family from Ohio. 80 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:47.360 They ran in a three hundred acre dairy farm and 81 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.879 basically they were just trying to break through the daily 82 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.000 grind of that and take a. 83 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:54.399 Vacation like so many people do. 84 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.240 All they knew all their life was work, work, work, 85 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.800 and they just wanted to get away from that. So 86 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.399 they finally decided to go on this vacation. Then, how 87 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.399 simply couldn't get away from the work of the farm. 88 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:11.439 He had over eighty cows, he had to milk twice 89 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.319 a day. He has you know, bakers, a negres of 90 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:17.480 the cross. So they decided. He decided to let his 91 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:19.639 life and daughters go on the trip without him because 92 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:21.439 he didn't want them to miss it, just because he couldn't. 93 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.279 He he was having trouble with his cross. He had 94 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:27.199 to get his crops in the ground, and if he 95 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:29.120 didn't do it, nobody else would. So he wanted to 96 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:32.120 let them go ahead and go on the trip. 97 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:37.879 Now, So they so how did they did they fly 98 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:40.560 to the Florida? How did they proceed to Florida? And 99 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:42.959 what was the date that give us the date in 100 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.800 the year that this faithful journey began? 101 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:54.360 Okay, so it was May nineteen eighty nine. They left Wilshire, Ohio, 102 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.160 and their vehicle their car, they had an open Middle 103 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.360 calif and they took the long trip from all all 104 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.199 the way down to Florida, and it took them a 105 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.800 couple of days to get there. Joe, No, the mother 106 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:08.680 was thirty six and she was the driver. 107 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:12.920 And how old were the daughters. 108 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:16.360 Michelle was seventeen and Christy was fourteen. 109 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:24.040 Now their ultimate goal or ultimate destination was Tampa. That's 110 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:26.759 where they were last the scene was in Tampa. But 111 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.920 they did stop in Jacksonville, and they did stop for 112 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.560 some famous landmarks and destinations that the tourists are very 113 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.040 fond of going to tell us a little about some 114 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.319 of their adventure where they actually did make it to 115 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:44.399 in that short few days, starting on May twenty sixth 116 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:46.560 and of course ending on June first. 117 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:50.839 Well, basically they just had women amount of time, so 118 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.279 they wanted to get as much Florida in as they could, 119 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:59.160 so they got it. The first stop was the Jacksonville 120 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:01.839 Zoo and they stayed there and they looked at all 121 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:03.959 the animals. They had never seen animals like that before, 122 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:08.879 so they hung out there and then next day went 123 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.600 to Silver Spring. Now, if anybody doesn't know, that's an 124 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.959 attraction the famous for their glass bottom boats. They actually 125 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.519 go on a boat and the bottom is the glass, 126 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:19.519 so you can see, you know, what's below. You can 127 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:22.600 see the sea life, the animals and the seaweed and 128 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.199 stuff like that. And actually that was a major part 129 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.920 of this investigation. Once they found out where they had gone, 130 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:33.279 investigators really wanted to know what their experience was with 131 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:35.480 water and with boats, cause they hoped they might be 132 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:38.439 a clue into what happened. It turns out they really 133 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.120 didn't have much experience with water in boats. Actually, Uh, 134 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.480 Joe was afraid of water and I and I think 135 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.319 that was the first time Christy had ever stepped foot 136 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:51.639 in a boat. After they went to Silver Spring, they 137 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.600 went to Sea World, they went to Epcot Center, and 138 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.160 they went to MGM Studios before they pulled into Tampa. 139 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.879 Now on Tampa Bay, when they moved pardon me, when 140 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.800 they finally arrived in Tampa, Uh, they stayed at a 141 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.839 day's inn, which is important to this, to the case 142 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:15.319 and to the story. Now as far as anyone knows, 143 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.399 what did what was their day like on their last 144 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.480 day that anyone record a day of their lives? What 145 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:24.680 would what was the events that they partake par took 146 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:29.920 upon in on June first, that day in Tampa, well. 147 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:34.039 June first, they checked in about meantime and they went exploring. 148 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:36.320 They went around you know, to see what was going 149 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.120 on in Tampa. They were thinking about going to Bush Garden, 150 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:45.759 possibly the Gulf Beaches, and the hotel itself looked over 151 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:49.759 the waterline of Tampa Bay and they really wanted to see, 152 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:51.679 you know, they wanted to think about going through the 153 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:56.159 water and go to the beach. So after they went 154 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.879 out exploring, they decided to go to dinner at the 155 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.399 hotel and that night, around seven o'clock was the last 156 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:05.639 time they were seen alive. There was a businessman in 157 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:10.080 the hotel's restaurant. He saw them there. They were seeing 158 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.720 right in front of him. He told police later he 159 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:16.559 had volunteered the information. And you know, they were sitting around, 160 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.240 they were talking and laughing and joking, and when they 161 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.919 got up to leave, Michelle said hello to him. Is 162 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:25.159 he walked out said that was something he definitely remembered. 163 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:34.120 Now, this is what's kind of odd for people reading this, 164 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:38.919 and you do take great effort to sort of explain somewhat, 165 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.000 But maybe I can ask you this question because this 166 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:44.120 is one of the questions that came to me. These 167 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.759 people worked on this dairy farm, but why there's no 168 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:54.360 telephone contact. From May twenty sixth, we'll talk about this. 169 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.039 I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but there was no 170 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:01.279 contact between Joan and her husband. Hell after they left, 171 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.519 were they not people that we were you know that 172 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.679 we're interested in having cell phones or there's usually phones 173 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:12.720 in hotel rooms. Is there a reason why? Was there 174 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:15.519 any reason, any good reason why they weren't in contact 175 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:16.399 by telephone? 176 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.000 They with They did speak to How on the telephone 177 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:25.039 as the trip progressed. The postcards and letters back to 178 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:29.159 How and Michelle sent them to his boyfriend or to 179 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:33.039 her boyfriend. Right, you know the one't room An articles 180 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.480 right about that. But but the funny thing of that is, uh, 181 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.879 you're absolutely right. How has got concerned? You know that? 182 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:43.720 I think it was June first was the last time 183 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:47.759 we talked to them, probably when they came into Tampa, Okay. 184 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:50.320 But by the time he spoke, by the time they 185 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:52.200 were supposed to be back in Ohio, he hadn't heard 186 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.159 from him for several days. And that was really what 187 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.080 really got him worried. 188 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.000 He was expecting them to call and and how many 189 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.360 how many days would it be a drive for for 190 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.639 those people who are you know, geographically challenged somewhat or 191 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.720 don't know the area. How long would it take reasonably 192 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.000 for people to drive from Tampa back to this Ohio. 193 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.000 It's about a two day drive. 194 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:16.759 It's about a two day drive. 195 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.919 So was he surprised that that she that Joe and 196 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:24.360 his wife had not called from say a hotel after 197 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.480 the say, the first night in between coming back from Tampa. 198 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:31.120 Was he he's quite concerned about that. He you know, 199 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:32.879 he's wondered why he hadn't heard from them. But he 200 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.799 just figured, oh, you know, they're just having fun and 201 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.519 taking their time and maybe they didn't get a chance 202 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:41.919 to call me. So he just figured, you know, they're 203 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.480 having fun, and he didn't want to, you know, try 204 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:46.840 to bother them. Sorry, just let it go. 205 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:52.559 I see, I see now, Uh tell us about the 206 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:57.279 days in and what happened there too for the manager 207 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:01.480 to call police? Why? How how it was that they 208 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:04.879 the maid came into the room and what prompted the 209 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.840 manager to call police after they had gone into that 210 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.919 hotel room. 211 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.159 Well, the maid got concerned because they had the person 212 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.639 had checked into that room a week before, and nothing 213 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:19.039 looked like it had ever moved. All the objects in 214 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:20.840 the room stayed in the same and didn't look like 215 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:25.120 the cases were really unpacked and they just dusted around everything. 216 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:27.519 And then after a week went by, the maid really 217 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.799 got nervous about it because she had seen the news reports. 218 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:34.440 So she manager she you know, she didn't know if 219 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.840 this was the missing people or not, but she just feared, 220 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:38.519 you know, it was strange for a room to go 221 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:41.440 in touch for a week, and any thought that was 222 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.759 a good idea. So he also he called Tampa police 223 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:45.600 and they said invest to get her out. 224 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.960 And what did they find, if anything, any clues at all? 225 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:57.240 What did they find at the hotel room? What did 226 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:58.080 police find there? 227 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:09.240 The police found they checked the records to see who 228 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:13.879 it was. Joan Rogers was the person who checked in, right, 229 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.159 and they so what they did was they thus the 230 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.039 new Corpinio prints and they matched it at the finger 231 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.759 prints of the bodies that were covered from the bay 232 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.960 and the matches fit. There was Joan Rodgers they checked 233 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.720 in the hotel room and John Rodgers that they had 234 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:32.360 found floating in the bay. Right, So now they knew 235 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.759 who it was and the victims were. 236 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.799 Now once they knew that they had a match that 237 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.039 these three people. That was very interesting too that the 238 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:47.120 maid made that connection was fortunate enough to see the 239 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.080 newscast and then made that connection. Am I correct? That 240 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.919 led that the police were you know, the manager was 241 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.080 then anxious to call the police, and then from there 242 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:01.200 the police did match up those fingers. French was there. 243 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.759 What did they find as once they knew that they 244 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.519 were dealing with a match for these three women, what 245 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.279 did they then find at the hotel room that was 246 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.720 at least a somewhat Well, wasn't the clue that would 247 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:16.000 lead them to their next move? 248 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:17.399 Well? 249 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.720 Number one thing what they did was they they had 250 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.080 the dental records from the victims and the morgue, and 251 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.440 they compared those to the Rogers family up in Ohio. 252 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.240 They contacted their dentists and they matched those as well. 253 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.639 So they had the fingerprint match and they had a 254 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.759 dental match. Based on those two links, they decided they 255 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.000 would go ahead and notify how that it was his family. 256 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:44.639 That was then and the very first thing that once 257 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.559 they figured out it was a match, they they try 258 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:50.399 to figure out where the car was because their car 259 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.039 was not in the parking lot of the hotel. 260 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:59.639 And where did they inevitably find the car? 261 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.240 Well, they figured that since the bodies are found in 262 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.279 the water. Then obviously what they were going to do 263 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.799 is try and search the closest going to start, the 264 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:11.399 closest place where you could get onto the water to 265 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.159 the hotel. So there was a lot talk about three 266 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.720 and a half miles away from their hotel and they 267 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:18.120 did find their car there. 268 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:23.559 And did that lead to any suspects that would be 269 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:25.639 potentially docking a boat there? 270 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:29.159 Well, they found some clues that they didn't actually have 271 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.360 a suspect as of yet. 272 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.720 They found it is Ryan here And I have a 273 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.919 question for you. What do you do when you win? 274 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:36.399 Like? 275 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.639 Are you a fist pumper, a wooer, a handclapper, a 276 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:41.519 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. 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What was what was contained in that brochure 288 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.039 that would lead police to I think they had some 289 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.440 sort of tangible clue. 290 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.320 Well, one of the things was some days in stationary 291 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.080 and it had Joe had written some handwritten directions on 292 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.720 there of of how to get to the boat dock. 293 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.480 And on those directions, you know, it's like turn right 294 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.200 west on State Road sixty two and a half miles 295 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.480 on the right side before the bridge. And then also 296 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:43.080 next to it was a description blue with white So 297 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:45.000 police thought that that was a description of the boat 298 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.799 they needed to get on, a blue boat with white trim. 299 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:50.320 So they had a clue they were looking for a 300 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:53.279 blue boat with white trim. 301 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:55.840 That's not much of a clue though, right, that's. 302 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:59.039 Not much of a clue because they started asking around 303 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.440 when they found you know, they talked to people, and 304 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:07.039 people the witnesses have told him that they found a 305 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.240 dark suv in the parking lot of the hotel. It 306 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.240 carried a blue boat with white trim on it. So 307 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.519 they placed that vehicle in the day then parking lot 308 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.559 when the Rogers were staying there. But that's really not 309 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.240 much of a clue because in Florida there's a lot 310 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:22.759 of dark SUVs and a lot of boats lily with 311 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.319 white trim. 312 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.680 Wasn't there something about the handwriting itself though, that there 313 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.680 was along with Jones writing, there was other writing that 314 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.359 was not her handwriting. 315 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.880 That is correct. There was a brochure with a map 316 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:42.039 of clear writer on it, and on that for sure, 317 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.440 there was handwriting that was not the Rogers family handwriting. 318 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:49.799 In a basically it told them, you know, how to 319 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:54.640 get to the boat dock from their hotel, So that 320 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:58.240 was a clue. But again they didn't know whose handwriting 321 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:01.119 it was. They were pretty convinced that that person wouldn't 322 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.200 know what happened, but they didn't know if that was 323 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.680 the killer. They didn't have any hand writing to pump 324 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.519 it up against either, so basically they didn't know what 325 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:10.759 to do. 326 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:19.279 Now the police. It's interesting you see sometimes accomposite drawing. 327 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.400 Of course they didn't have one in this particular case. 328 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.960 Sometimes they would reach out to the media for assistance, 329 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.400 and in this particular case they did, and there was 330 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:33.400 sort of an unusual request for the media with a 331 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:38.440 pretty successful result. If you're looking for the amount of 332 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:40.759 callers that would call in tell us about what the 333 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:45.400 police decided to share with the media and what was 334 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.319 the response like. 335 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.559 Well, the police found out in the course of investigation 336 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:55.680 that about two weeks prior to the murders there was 337 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:01.319 a rape not very far away from that hotel, and 338 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:07.720 the rapists raped the woman on his boat. So that 339 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.000 was very interesting to them. That sounded kind of like 340 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.720 a similarity. So they had they interviewed that person and 341 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.039 they grew up a composite of the suspect and that 342 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.319 seemed pretty similar to them, as you know, kind of 343 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.240 what happened to the rogers. So they circulated that composite 344 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:24.880 in the media hoping that people would see that guy 345 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.240 and try to who the men. Also, what they did 346 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.000 was the directions that were written in the other person's 347 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.799 hand They circulated those also through the media to see 348 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:36.599 if anyone would recognize that handwriting and. 349 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:38.519 What was the response like to that clue. 350 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.799 So they had several hundred tips the very first week. 351 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:47.119 The responsors overwhelming, but unfortunately they followed up on every 352 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.319 single tip and you know, nothing came of it. They 353 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:51.640 didn't have any fresh. 354 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.000 Clues, and how did they come to who made the 355 00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:01.160 connection between the Was it the police themselves that said, okay, 356 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:03.759 but wait a minute, there was a rape a few 357 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:08.279 miles away of a Canadian tourist. And again, what we 358 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.559 haven't talked about, and I'm going to ask you about this. 359 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.759 They couldn't have made that connection between the Canadian tourist 360 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:19.400 unless there was something in terms of the mo or 361 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.000 the signature of the killer. Now we've kind of skipped 362 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.000 over this. The women were found in the water, but 363 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:29.640 what was the condition? Were they sexually assaulted? Tell us 364 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.400 the condition and some of the things that were found 365 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.720 with the bodies themselves that would be considered a signature 366 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:38.640 of a killer. 367 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.880 Well, the bodies themselves were stripped below the waste and 368 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.759 they were tied together and down with concrete blocks. So 369 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.880 it was a police's destination that these women were raped. 370 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.200 So that's a pretty strong connection to another rape. That 371 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.440 rape didn't end in murder, but this one did, and 372 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.119 they thought that that was a strong samiliarity between the two. 373 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.680 But the condition to know of the bodies were that 374 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.720 the cinder block there was a rope around their neck 375 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.680 and cinder blocks used to weigh them down. But they 376 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.799 were also bound and gagged, or at least that was 377 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.839 the conclusion that you said that the police had that 378 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.359 they were bound and gagged, that the one of the 379 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:23.960 victims had wrangled free of I guess the rope that 380 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.480 was bound or whatever bound her hands, but their hands 381 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.400 and feet were bound. And then you say in the 382 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.839 article as well that which more horrifying was that police 383 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.160 believed that they were thrown overboard alive. 384 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.200 Yes, they police believe that they were thrown overboard alive, 385 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.799 one by one. So they had to see their mother 386 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.519 and their daughter basically tortured and then thrown overboard. Knew 387 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.720 they were going to be next and that is a 388 00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:56.519 horrifying thing if I've ever heard one. 389 00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:57.640 Right. 390 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.480 Another thing that we went over which was surprising to 391 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.640 me because he really depict how as this hard working 392 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:09.960 farmer in Ohio, But there was a reason why he 393 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.240 ends up being in the same group as almost everyone else. 394 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.960 When a murder like this happens, the police immediately have 395 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.000 to rule out suspects, and one of the more likely 396 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:26.079 suspects in cases like this is is the husband. Now, 397 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.160 even though he was not anywhere near the crime scene, 398 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.440 he was still asked for a polygraph, so I'll ask 399 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.359 you what the result of that polygraph was. But why, 400 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.519 given Hol's demeanor and that he was on this farm 401 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.559