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Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster

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movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Bernie Brownfield and

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I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.

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Speaker 2: Ben Stover individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza marriage and family therapist.

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Speaker 1: We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists,

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who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed

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mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes

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and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and

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all forms.

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Speaker 2: Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,

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we aren't your therapist.

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Speaker 3: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find

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a local mental health provider.

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to be talking about the nineteen ninety

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Chris Columbus movie Home Alone, starring what would be the

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one of the biggest stars of the nineties, Macaulay Culkin.

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This movie is about you guess it, a kid that

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is left home alone. Home Alone, as they mentioned about

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eight hundred times in the movie. So our second John

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Hughes movie of the year. We did Breakfast Club earlier

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with Molly mclere, So this is about Kevin An eight

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year old who, after a conflict with his family, gets

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left home alone while they go off to Paris, and

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they don't realize that they left him at home until

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they are in flight to Paris. So the rest of

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the movie is about this kid by himself. Well, two robbers,

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the Wet Bandits try to rob his house and shenanigans zoue.

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Speaker 2: As they tend to do. When you're looking at a

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nineteen ninety coming of age film that every single one

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of us wished we were in.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I wanted a what's that thing called that he

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does at the end that detaches from the house of

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the tree zip I feel like a zip line. The

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Concert of Zipline had a choke hold on my generation

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after this movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so did treehouses, which I had.

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Speaker 3: I absolute Well, that's a brag because not everybody had

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one of those.

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Speaker 2: Everyone did not. It is definitely one of the things

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that my dad did that was awesome for us, and

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we definitely had a fort with battlements and used the

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hell out of it. But we unfortunately could not talk

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him into putting a zip line from our bedroom window

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out to the tree ford though that would have been

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possible because it would have been a direct line. However,

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we also would have died. So sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, two story drop, I can see where your dad

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was like.

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Speaker 2: No, my dad would say that having a house full

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of three boys was a never ending factory of bad ideas,

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and he was not wrong at all. So very thankful

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I have girls.

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Speaker 1: So the things we'll be touching upon today is, well,

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we're mainly focusing on Kevin. Yes, we'll be talking about

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the potential roots of behavioral issues as he is seen,

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especially in the beginning of the movie as a kid

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that is a quote unquote problem. Yes, we'll also be

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talking about holidays and the impact they can have on families,

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whether that's stress, estrangement, loneliness, et cetera. So before we

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want to do that, I know, Ben, you wanted to

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give a shout out about our new tech.

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Speaker 2: I do, well. Mostly I want to give a shout

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out to our Patreon supporters, because our new tech is

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because of them, and I know that we say on

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our Patreon that the point of starting one was to

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help us have enough funds to actually upgrade our equipment

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to sound good, so hopefully we do. Today we are

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debuting some new microphones and want to say thank you

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to all of you that have supported us on Patreon

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and just by listening and sharing us all over the place,

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because you guys doing that has enabled us to upgrade

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our tech over the years and that's really mattered to

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our sounds.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, all right, And also, speaking of Patreon,

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if you would like to become a Patreon Patreon it

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is the best way to support us other than leaving

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a rating and review wherever we listen to podcasts. If

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you're a ten dollars or more patron, you get early

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unedited access to some of our episodes, and if you're

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a fifty dollars or more, you can pick the topic

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of an episode. All right, so let's jump into mister Kevin. McAllister.

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I will say off the top that I am a

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Kevin apologist, and I will fight anyone on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Same. I don't see a single problem with Kevin's behavior.

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I see a problem in the family system. I see

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a problem where a kid is not getting his needs

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met and he's struggling to get space to get his

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very young needs met versus everyone that's around him. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Kevin is introduced as a kid who has an attitude,

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as a kid who causes a lot of problems within

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the home. When he first comes in, his mom's in

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the telephone and he's doing that annoying thing kids do

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where they ignore the fact that you're on the telephone

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and they're just like mom, mom, mom. And he does

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say something off the rip, which is pretty defiant, why

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don't you get off the phone and make me So

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it does established right away that he's a kid that

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has a mouth and he will use that mouth. And

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what I want to give him some credit for is

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that the whole family has mouths. Yes, the whole family

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is loud and somewhat mean. As something I say when

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I do family work is it's not fair when we're

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asking the younger or the youngest person, which is him

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and his immediate family, to be better behaved than everybody

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older than him, because he's also, right, the baby his

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immediate family. Yes, he's not the youngest of all the

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cousins that are there, right, there's definitely those two that

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are younger than him, including the one who peas the bed,

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But he is the youngest and his immediate family and

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all of his siblings seem like their teenage level older

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than him too, or.

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Speaker 2: At least, but they've all significantly transcended being little kid.

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And he is a little kid, and he definitely needs

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a lot of attention. And I don't think he would

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have developed the mouth that he does had his needs

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been persistently not met. And he felt ignored that comment

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about the phone that he made to his mom, why

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don't you get off the phone and make me? He

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could have just said, why don't you make me? A

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kid with an attitude would have looked you square in

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the face and said make me, But he said get

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off the phone. Interesting. Yeah, so he's indicating that he

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has felt like the phone and other things take up

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the attention for him that he clearly resents, or it

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wouldn't have been specifically mentioned because little kid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wrote in my notes, like my first note

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actually is Kevin is engaging in testing. If nothing else,

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he is trying to see if he can push enough

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to get his needs met. Like you're saying, Ben, push

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enough to get attention, because everybody needs attention. Attention isn't

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a bad thing, and the way we we sort of

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weaponize that is a bad thing in our culture is shitty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, Like you're do you need too much?

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Speaker 1: Attention, your attention seeking, your needy, as if needing attention

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is a character flaw and it's a character's strength if

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you don't need any And we especially need attention when

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we're children because we are dependent upon other people. Attention

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is linked to survival if nothing else, but also linked

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to getting your emotional needs met and more of the

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higher up needs met. And this is a kid that

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is seems to be falling in the cracks of the

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family system because it's not like even though we are

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only introduced to them during this highly busy, stressful time,

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they do make they do a good They do a

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good job in the movie of setting the scene very

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clearly that it feels like really worn in dynamics. None

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of this feels like brand new. Everyone acts like Kevin's

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always like this, like he's definitely gotten the label of

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the scapegoat or the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course he has. He's also several years younger,

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and it's clear that the parents have gotten used to

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having older kids who have been independent m and had

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Kevin clearly several years after they got out of the

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mode of having little kids and resigning your life to

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taking care of little kids, which is what it takes

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to have them successfully is accepting that their needs come

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first above everything else, period, all the time. But when

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parents get out of that mode and have a younger

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kid later, they can sometimes struggle to reactivate something they

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had very much looked forward to being done with, kind

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of the same way anybody else transitions phases. We don't

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often look back college and be like, man, I want

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to go back to college. Nope, I missed the times,

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I miss the things I would do when I was

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that age. But going back now, nah, you're done with

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it by the time you're at the end of it,

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kind of like high school. No matter what phase people

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are in, you look back and you've transcended that. Well,

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parents do the same thing because they've also aged and

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come into new responsibilities and new things in new social

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groups that they find That makes it difficult sometimes for

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them to realize you still have to be the same

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parent for the last kid that you were for all

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the other ones.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's the stereotype right that by the youngest

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child parents have kind of given up. That's kind of

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like the wildly acknowledged stereotype.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the youngest one having.

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Speaker 1: Very different rules and expectations, which usually is talked about

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from a more like indulgent, spoiled perspective. I think with Kevin, though,

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we see the other version of that, which is he

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gets lost in the sauce and that he's only acknowledged

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and responded to once he's kind of hit his red zone,

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once he's get really angry. Like I think a great

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example of this is the suitcase situation at the beginning

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of the movie. He gets told the night before their trip, yeah,

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you still need to pack your suitcase, and he does

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such a good job of asking multiple people, multiples of

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his siblings, I don't know how how do you pack

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a suitcase? I don't know how to pack a suitcase?

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And instead of helping him, they keep just saying tough

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and judging him, and he very maturely says, I've never

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packed a suitcase before, how would I know what goes

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in there. He does such a great job actually communicating

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several times what he needs and why he needs it,

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and he is met with disdain from every one of

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his siblings until he gets really frustrated. And he's not wrong,

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I wrote, he doesn't get frustrated until he gets blown

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off several times and tortured.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean his siblings are incredibly mean and dismissive,

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and I think it's a lot more than sibling rivalry

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that we're seeing like this.

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Speaker 2: They are mean to him, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they pick on him and when I think that's

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a great example, Brittany, when he is asking again asking

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for help, and this is kind of what ends up happening.

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And I think it's really unfortunate because then, especially in

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big families, the problem, the problem quote unquote child is

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the one that gets a lot of attention, but only

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when things go poorly. When everything is fine, they maybe

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get ignored or are just overseen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It also makes me wonder if there is a dynamic

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too where the parents expect his older siblings to step

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in in this way. Like he doesn't go to his

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parents really or an adult.

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Speaker 4: To say how do I do this? He goes to

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his siblings.

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Speaker 1: And it's not wildly inappropriate for his siblings to I mean,

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they're not adults, so they're not going to have necessarily

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very like mature responses to him. They're also younger people

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who are going to be emotional at times, which can

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include being mean and blow him off and be a

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little shitty because they're doing their own thing. So I

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think it also shows the limitations of relying maybe on

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your elder siblings to be caretakers for the younger sibling.

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Speaker 2: It's not a thing that they're necessarily equipped to do.

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They sometimes figure it out because they have to. But

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in this family, it's really clear that mom does a

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lot of things. Dad seems like he's just kind of

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around typical. Yeah, Mensus nineteen ninety So world's real different, right,

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real stereotypical at this point, and we see so much

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evidence that nobody intervenes with the way the kids treat

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each other. Uncle Frank even joins in on it, validating it,

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encouraging it, and showing them that it's okay to be

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a dick to each other. But nobody intervenes. Kevin goes

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to his mom first. He's told by I don't know,

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maybe Dad tells him that your mom is going to

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be the one who packs your suitcase. Somebody tells him

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that I forgot who.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you're the last sibling, the last sibling side.

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You know, you know Mom's going to do it anyway, right,

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What are you worried about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, yeah, I knew somebody said it. But then

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he asks my hey, are you going to try to

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pack my suitcase? Because that's what he was trying to

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get her attention with when she was on the phone,

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was hey, my suitcase isn't packed, and then she ignores him,

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brushes him off, everyone's mean to him. He pops his

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top when everyone's been mean to him, and the pizza

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comes and they like Buzz eats his cheese pizza and

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then does the gross thing where he like threatens to

253
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barf it up. That's when he blows his lid and

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knocks the milk.

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Speaker 3: Over, which is just an accident and really is Buzz's

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fault for pissing him off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the real problem in this movie is with Buzz.

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Speaker 2: Buzz is dick, but does he's mean?

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Speaker 3: I hear what you're both saying about how maybe the

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kids weren't ready to respond to him in that way,

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But as an oldest sibling, Yeah, if they come to

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you with a genuine question, I would have helped them. Like,

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I feel like the response of this not only will

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we not help you, but also we don't like you

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pushes a line of a sibling relationship, and I think

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you're right. It is interesting that the parents don't seem

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to intervene at all when it comes to the siblings.

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Speaker 2: Nope, there's no healthy modeling whatsoever. And that leads to

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this unrestricted dynamic where Kevin's just caught up in the wash.

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And yeah, it was an accident that he knocked over

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the milk. He was still just trying to get attention

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so that he could meet his needs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because even though we only get a small window

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of time of this family, a kid like Buzz.

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Speaker 4: He didn't become that overnight exactly.

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Speaker 1: So this dynamic of the way he treats probably everybody,

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but especially the way he treats Kevin is I'm sure

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a recurring, long term thing.

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Speaker 4: For whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if Buzz's problem is because I want

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to be mindful that he is also a young person. Yeah,

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but he doesn't get any blame repercussions. There's no stepping

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in on Kevin's part. Because I'll tell you what is

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true about being an oldest sibling, because I think think

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all three of us were old to siblings. Correct if

286
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something happened, especially a physical altercation between me and a

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younger sibling, I would be the one in trouble. My

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00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,279
mom in that situation would have said, Brittany, what happened.

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Speaker 4: What did you do to Kevin?

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Speaker 3: Yep?

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Speaker 4: Or why did Kevin do that?

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Speaker 1: I would have been the one in trouble no matter

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what yep, which is appropriate in the sense that if

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you are like at least fifteen, I assume, and you're

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beefing with an eight year old, that is on you. Yes,

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And I know all the times I beefed with my

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siblings who are much younger than me, that was on me.

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I look back and I'm like, my parents weren't wrong

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in those ways. And the fact that Buzz feels so

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comfortable being so mean to Kevin is indicative of a

301
00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:58,399
larger issue, because I feel like his other siblings are

302
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,679
also mean to him, but they feel more regular sibling

303
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,960
mean in that they are caught up in their own

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stuff and they're like, get away, go away, not I

305
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don't want to deal with you. To me. Obviously, they

306
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could be nicer. I'm sure I would have probably helped.

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Like I have a brother who's eight years younger than me.

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If he had came and I was like, I don't

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know what to do, I think I would have been

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like Oh, I would have made probably a production of it,

311
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you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: But I still would have helped him. I would have.

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That's not changed now.

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Speaker 4: Been dramatic the whole time.

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Speaker 1: I've been like, fine, but I still probably would have

316
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gotten his stuff together. Yeah, And so the fact that

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they blow him off. I don't love either, but they

318
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,400
do feel like this more the typical I don't want

319
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,400
to deal with you. Go find someone else. I think,

320
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,480
especially when you're in a big family, it can be

321
00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:47,960
really easy to pass the buck, like go find your

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other sibling, Go find your brother and ask him.

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Speaker 2: I don't have time, especially in this amount of chaos

324
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,319
where they're with cousins of similar age, Like everybody is

325
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,359
grouping up with cousins of similar age, and there isn't

326
00:18:01,519 --> 00:18:05,240
one that is Kevin's agent. That is something that the

327
00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:08,839
movie made pretty clear. Kevin got grouped in with the

328
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,240
even younger kid who pees the bed still, and Kevin

329
00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:14,440
is a he's in second grade. He says somewhere in

330
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the film that you know, he's definitely past that point,

331
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,480
but he's still grouped that way, which is going to

332
00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:26,640
undermine where he sees himself. And he's gonna buck that

333
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:29,160
and try to be with the older kids. But the

334
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,640
older kids, since they have an audience, are going to

335
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,200
be grouped up with their age group, probably still trying

336
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,559
to escape the tyranny of buzz and that age group.

337
00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:44,720
We're all a bunch of dicks, and that's clearly enabled

338
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,039
and it's a problem. And then I think what we

339
00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:51,559
see in the movie that really was straining is that

340
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:54,359
the first attention Kevin ends up getting from his mom

341
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,839
is that it doesn't go buzz, What the fuck? Yeah?

342
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,400
What did you do? Why? Kevin so upset? It was Kevin,

343
00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:06,079
go upstairs and be by yourself on the third floor

344
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where you're scared.

345
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Speaker 4: And don't have any dinner.

346
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Speaker 1: I mean, I just can't even get over Uncle Frank

347
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,039
saying you're being a little jerk and that being socially

348
00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:16,160
acceptable with in the family.

349
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's where I think maybe so Frank is

350
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:20,839
the dad's.

351
00:19:20,519 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: Brother, yeah, because they share the same last name exactly.

352
00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:26,200
So that makes me think that there's always.

353
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Speaker 2: A bully in the family mm hmm, and.

354
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,319
Speaker 3: That everybody maybe ignores that because nobody says shit to

355
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,599
Frank when he says that to Kevin. Nobody says what

356
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,759
the hell? Why would you say that to an eight

357
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,640
year old kid. You're a grown ass person, right, So

358
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,440
it makes me think that that is a part of

359
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,200
the regular dynamic of at least one of the parents.

360
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 2: And my guess is that it's the dad. It doesn't

361
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,720
seem like the dad is a bully. He seems quite

362
00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:52,720
kind about a little detached. It seems like that is

363
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,279
a dynamic everyone is used to.

364
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,559
Speaker 4: A lot of passivity around yep.

365
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like nobody like he's being a jerk, but nobody's

366
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,880
gonna say anything because that's how Uncle Frank is.

367
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,319
Speaker 1: Because I feel like what would be more appropriate is

368
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,559
maybe you don't have like a full confrontation with Frank

369
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:08,720
in front of all the kids. You'd interrupt and be

370
00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:11,319
like who whoa who? Frank, don't involved.

371
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Speaker 2: He'd like, I don't notice.

372
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Speaker 3: I think it would even be appropriate for the parents

373
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to be like, hey, that's not okay. They don't call

374
00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:19,559
names in the house, no, but like in front of everybody.

375
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,559
Speaker 2: I think millennial parents would do that. I don't think

376
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:25,680
this generation of Pearance would have done that hardly.

377
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 1: Ever, Well, it's that very thing of adults don't make mistakes.

378
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: Yeah kind of shit. Yeah, Boomers Don't Apologize titled my

379
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,119
new book.

380
00:20:35,759 --> 00:20:38,079
Speaker 1: Which is where later I will talk about how I

381
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,119
love that the mom apologizes to Kevin. That's one of

382
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,680
the first thing she does when she gets home.

383
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:42,079
Speaker 2: Yep.

384
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,839
Speaker 1: I think also something I want to point out too,

385
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:47,440
which I think everyone in the family does to Kevin

386
00:20:47,759 --> 00:20:53,759
is project their adults or their older wisdom knowledge onto Kevin.

387
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,720
So assuming he would know how to pack a suitcase,

388
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000
assuming he would know how to not be a jury,

389
00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:02,279
quote unquote the way that Frank defines it, the way

390
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:10,119
that adults will project our sophisticated brains onto children and

391
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,680
then hold them accountable as if kids are choosing to.

392
00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 2: Fuck with you.

393
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: The way that adults would calling him a jerk is

394
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,960
so bananas when you really think about it, because he's

395
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,119
just living. But when I would try to express to

396
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,160
parents is he's just a kid living. Kids are just

397
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,599
trying to get their needs met. They're not rubbing their

398
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:31,920
hands together in their bedroom like an evil genius thinking

399
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,119
how can I fuck up someone's day to day unless.

400
00:21:35,799 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 2: You're trying to break into their house at Christmas time?

401
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: Well, yes, but in that case, but I would say

402
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,400
his need is still safety, right, He's trying to keep

403
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,799
his domicile safe. He's not just trying to fuck with

404
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,920
Trando's who are trying to house it.

405
00:21:48,839 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 4: For them, of course not. This brings me.

406
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: To another point I wanted to make about kevin Is giftedness,

407
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,799
which is something I'd never noticed when I watched the

408
00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:02,400
movie before, but something I feel like I highlighted this

409
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,799
time watching it is they make a point in the

410
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:07,440
beginning of the movie about how he makes fish hooks

411
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,480
out of ornaments, that he is a really what's what

412
00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:13,559
I'm looking for, like inventive kid. He's clearly very smart.

413
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,400
All the stuff he does over the whole course of

414
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,160
the movie, how he knows how to hide in the manger,

415
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:24,480
how he knows how to outsmart these stupid, stupid adult criminals.

416
00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:28,559
Everything he does in this movie is so intelligent for

417
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:31,559
an eight year old, and they do make the case

418
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,880
that in the beginning. So it also makes me wonder

419
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,119
if part of him being kind of obnoxious, as they

420
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,200
would define it, is he's a kid that's really smart

421
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,000
and is not getting that need met either. A smart

422
00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:47,839
kid who's left to their own devices can become a

423
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:54,200
behavioral kid very easily because they're bored because they're trying

424
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,119
to entertain themselves. It makes me think of how kids

425
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,839
will become behavioral issues in the classroom. And then a

426
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:03,720
lot of times, if someone is willing to do the

427
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:06,720
work and the time to take care of them properly

428
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:09,000
and assess them properly, they can figure out, oh, you

429
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,880
just are bored in class and you need more stimulation.

430
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,119
So he strikes me as a kid that probably needs

431
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,880
more stimulation that he's getting. He needs more attention than

432
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,119
he's getting, and that is a real shame. So we

433
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,279
will take a break here and we will be right back.

434
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,200
All right, Is there anything more we want to say

435
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,200
specifically about Kevin?

436
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 2: And I think recognizing the giftedness is important. I think

437
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,319
that's an astute point. I think it's very critical to

438
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,000
recognize that an understimulated child will that's intelligent like he is,

439
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:53,039
will seek stimulation at the academic intellectual level they needed at,

440
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,200
and that will apply to kids of all intellect levels.

441
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,079
But if you see a kid who's constantly getting into

442
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:04,680
stuff and it seems to be smarter than their peers,

443
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,599
it's important to encourage and get them things that meet

444
00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:13,640
the level development they're at. And I don't see that

445
00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:18,519
happening with Kevin. I think Kevin's very different. They make

446
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,920
a lot of points to show that his brothers seem

447
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,599
to have pretty typical nineties teenager interests of jock level interests.

448
00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:30,599
His brother's wearing a letterman jacket. He's got Michael Jordan

449
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,720
and Wayne Gretzky, and Larry Bird's got the little statues

450
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,279
of all the things that were real popular back then.

451
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,599
Probably part of that Saturday Morning cartoon show that had

452
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,880
Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Wayne Gretzky. I think those were

453
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,319
what those were from. I forgot what that was called,

454
00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:46,359
but definitely part of like the Reaganism. Don't do drugs,

455
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,599
be like these super athletes.

456
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:51,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're all doing drugs. Yeah.

457
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,839
Speaker 2: Maybe the important part of having any kid is recognizing

458
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,880
you have to recognize meeting their need at the level

459
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,799
of their need is the best way to manage behaviors.

460
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,599
Giving them what they need when they express it, how

461
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,359
they express it, as so long as it's within the

462
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,319
realm of appropriate will prevent a lot of the behaviors

463
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:19,200
we see demonstrated by Kevin in that first ten minutes

464
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,400
of the movie. None of these things he's demonstrating or pathological,

465
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,200
none of them. He's not a kid that's showing anything

466
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:36,799
other than understimulation, under appreciation, under brain left. But I

467
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:38,799
forgot what word I was looking for. But basically, he's

468
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:41,799
not neglected. Isn't quite the word I want, because his

469
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,319
needs are clearly met physically, but he's he's getting a

470
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:50,599
bit of emotional neglect where it's causing him to start

471
00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:57,799
having to be more mouthy, more defiant, more antagonistic to

472
00:25:57,839 --> 00:25:59,880
get his needs met and to hold his own space.

473
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,200
He's got to stand up for himself in the ways

474
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,079
that he can, which is not going to work physically,

475
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,519
so he's going to have to do it with his mind.

476
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:08,480
So he does.

477
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: And as we've said, I'm sure many times in this

478
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,079
podcast with kids, any attention is good attention. So if

479
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,680
a kid can't get positive attention, they will settle for

480
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:22,640
negative attention, and that might be the loop they're stuck

481
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,799
in with Kevin, where like we said in the beginning

482
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:27,839
line of you know, why don't you get off the

483
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:31,359
phone to make me? That is the great example of

484
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,839
him getting whatever attention he can, even if it's not

485
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,799
great attention, not positive attention. But yeah, going back to

486
00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:44,480
the giftedness. I wish his parents would be more curious

487
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:50,319
about what he's doing and respect the ingenuity that he's demonstrating,

488
00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:53,799
Like he's a kid that's turning ornaments into something else,

489
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:55,440
into fish hooks and things like that.

490
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,519
Speaker 4: Maybe he excellent started a fire, but.

491
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: I also think that's that if you leave a smart

492
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,519
kid to their own devices, they might accidentally do something

493
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:05,240
like start a fire. Because something that is very true

494
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:07,680
also about gifted kids or just smart kids in general,

495
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:12,519
is that they don't understand their own limits to their

496
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:16,920
intelligence sometimes, so it can be like I'm really I'm

497
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,880
really good at figuring this out, figuring this sun, figuring

498
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,680
this out, but I might not realize that you have

499
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:28,240
to turn the stovetop off after you use it, or

500
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:30,960
I might be so in my head like excited and

501
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,200
stuff that I miss something that an adult would catch,

502
00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:36,359
and then accidents happen. But instead of the adults being

503
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,240
mindful of the whole picture, they'll just get focused on

504
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,799
you started a fire, you fucked up the ornaments, You're

505
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,559
just trying to start shit or be a pain in

506
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:49,000
my ass, instead of being inquisitive about how did it

507
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:49,440
get here?

508
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 2: Yep, And another dynamic to factor in is that a

509
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,720
youngest gifted child is going to be observing and vicariously

510
00:27:59,799 --> 00:28:04,920
learnlearning at a much faster rate than the kids that

511
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,119
we're just watching adults. He's going to be watching all

512
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:11,839
of the older siblings do all of the things, but

513
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,680
he will lack the insight to know what he can't

514
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,920
do or catch all of the nuance in details. Turning

515
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,319
on the stove, he'll figure that out, may not figure

516
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:24,519
out you have to turn it off, or may turn

517
00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:27,240
the gas on without understanding how to turn the ignitoor

518
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,680
on because he knows you turn that knob. And I

519
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:35,519
think it's really critical to recognize just biologically speaking, the

520
00:28:35,559 --> 00:28:41,119
prefrontal cortex that is responsible for logical thought isn't fully

521
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,640
online or developed until kids are ten. They are not

522
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,039
capable of understanding things the way adults do. They just aren't.

523
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,200
And it's still going to be a lot of here

524
00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:58,519
in the now decision making. These are my needs, this

525
00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:01,039
is what I want? Why can't I have it? They

526
00:29:01,079 --> 00:29:05,240
will start to understand by first grade a lot more

527
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160
and each grade from there, but not till they're ten

528
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,559
does it really start to click. And you really have

529
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,599
to be mindful of how you're parenting a youngest child,

530
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,400
especially a clever one, because you're going to think they

531
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,240
understand because all the other kids understand, but that one

532
00:29:21,279 --> 00:29:24,880
doesn't yet and nothing can change that. It's not anything

533
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,720
they're doing wrong. They're just not there yet. That's it.

534
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,279
You have to maintain empathy for that and respond to

535
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:33,440
the emotional needs of that child period.

536
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does make me curious about why Kevin so

537
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:40,160
much younger than the teenagers, kind of the whole backstory

538
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400
of the parents where they kind of like done parenting

539
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,880
and then they had a noopsie baby and he's too

540
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,960
much for them to handle. I think that's also hard too,

541
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,119
when the youngest is just a kid that needs more

542
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,599
than maybe the other kids needed, and the parents are

543
00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:58,400
already like tapped out energetically by that kid. And it's

544
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,839
not that kid's fault. You chose to bring that kid

545
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:03,359
in the world. You need to show up for them.

546
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: Every kid is different, and no matter what you think

547
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,640
you know from one child, the next one will be

548
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,359
a whole basket of new challenges.

549
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and how did Buzz get the way he is?

550
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: That's what I want to know, because Buzz and so

551
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:17,599
and I don't think Buzz is the oldest.

552
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,559
Speaker 2: I think the oldest dead girl, the dark haired, the

553
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,119
tall girl who's put in charge of the count, the

554
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:24,759
one who's putting.

555
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: She's the one whose dad lives in Paris. Oh, you know,

556
00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:30,359
it's hard to keep track of all this. I was

557
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:32,359
telling Hannah when we started watching it today. I was like,

558
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,079
I've never really tried to identify who's a sibling and

559
00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:38,880
who's a cousin. And that might be a little rough.

560
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: They tell you in the beginning, and they're talking to

561
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,480
that's how we figured j Yeah, that's how we figured

562
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:44,759
it out.

563
00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:48,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, the oldest daughter is the one on the couch

564
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,319
in Paris who's talking to Buzz, And she's like, Kevin

565
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,039
is so little.

566
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,079
Speaker 4: I hope he's okay, and Buzz is like, hilly, fine, all.

567
00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: Right, Well let's take another break here and be back

568
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:06,960
to talk about holidays and families. All right, So, Ben,

569
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,160
I know this is something you really wanted to make

570
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,319
sure we talked about holiday stress.

571
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: Holidays stress is definitely something that I want to talk

572
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,359
about in a holiday episode, because, like this movie shows,

573
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:23,799
holiday stress can manifest itself in all kinds of ways.

574
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:27,440
And this brilliant Little Kids Movie found a way to

575
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:32,960
highlight a great deal of it. They highlight the panic

576
00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:37,960
and nonsense of having so very many people around, and

577
00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:42,359
how that can introduce chaos and deregulate everyone, how much

578
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,480
that can cause all of us to go into kind

579
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,200
of a dissociated state, trying to survive and get everywhere

580
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,759
and do everything and take on more than we can

581
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,559
or more than we can reasonally do, and then whatever

582
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,920
dynamics exist in families and within the self get exact

583
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:04,759
surbated in usually the least convenient ways. People get stressed,

584
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,319
and they get stupid, they start making mistakes. It happens

585
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,000
to all of us when we're around the holidays. The

586
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:15,200
pressure we put on ourselves to be everywhere and do

587
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:19,799
everything and be everything for everyone and make perfect recipes

588
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,960
just like Grandma is immense, plus the financial strain. In

589
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,839
this movie, they manage to cover all of that, plus estrangement,

590
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:33,839
plus a grief and loss, and also the way people

591
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,599
sometimes retreat into other activities to cover that up. Pretty

592
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:40,400
incredible film.

593
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,079
Speaker 1: Well, when you say dissociate, Ben in this context, I

594
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:47,279
think it could be helpful to explain that a little

595
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,400
bit more, because I think the typical understanding of dissociation

596
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:55,279
is from more of the trauma perspective of like not

597
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,960
being present mentally because you're going through something really into

598
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,200
densely triggering. So when you use the word associate in

599
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,240
this context, what do you mean when.

600
00:33:05,079 --> 00:33:07,839
Speaker 2: I use the word dissociate and talk about the process

601
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:11,480
of dissociation. It's really important to highlight that dissociation is

602
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:16,640
a dynamic process that goes on throughout whatever we're dealing with.

603
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,920
It helps us to compartmentalize our life. It helps us

604
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,480
to operate in the different modes that we need to

605
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,599
to survive the different areas of our life. And sometimes

606
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:32,039
that throws us into a hyperdrive or a partial shutdown,

607
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:35,200
so a hyper arousal or a hypo arousal. If you

608
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,519
think about it, I guess in a three tiered system

609
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:42,400
where you have your window of tolerance where normal stress,

610
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,000
I don't need to dissociate because I've got it. Whatever

611
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,559
is happening is I'm enough to handle. I am resourced

612
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,920
against the level of stress I'm going to face. However,

613
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,960
once that line is tipped from beyond what we can handle,

614
00:33:57,599 --> 00:34:01,640
then we're going to start to compartmentalize different parts of ourself.

615
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,799
So that we can run either hyper drive or hypo drive,

616
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,920
meaning go way above and into a level of alert

617
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,000
that we need to be or way below because everything

618
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,639
that's going on is too much and we're getting overwhelmed

619
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:20,920
and we have to start shutting some out. Oftentimes you

620
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,719
see the hallmarks of this. People that are just going, going, going, going, going, going,

621
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,599
going going, are in some kind of hyper arousal state.

622
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,400
People that can just do everything and keep track of everything.

623
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:34,679
But then they come home and they're fucking done. They

624
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,679
can't take in any more information, they can't deal with

625
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,960
anybody else's anything, They don't talk to anybody about anything.

626
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:43,840
They have now gone from a hyper estate to a

627
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,880
hypo state. Hyper allows you to engage to deal with

628
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:52,360
whatever it is that's causing stress, strain, threat, etc. Hypo

629
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,159
helps you deal with there is no way out of

630
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,960
whatever I am, or the best option for me is

631
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,920
to avoid and hide everything, so I will talk to

632
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,599
no one about nothing. So dissociation is what you start

633
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:08,320
to do when you move outside of your window of

634
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,239
tolerance and into a hyper or a hypostate to survive

635
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,239
the level of strain and stress you have on you

636
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:15,960
at a moment.

637
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,159
Speaker 1: So what you're saying, is when they wake up and

638
00:35:19,199 --> 00:35:23,480
they realize that the alarm never went off and that

639
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:26,000
they have to go, go, go, go go, because they're

640
00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:30,800
forty five minutes out from their plane taking off. That

641
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,880
would be a stage of them being in dissociation.

642
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: They're absolutely dissociated. They can't focus on anything else. They

643
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:42,079
go into hyper focus. They start ignoring details aren't relevant.

644
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,199
And one of the things that is also brilliant about

645
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:48,639
this film is that when you calm back down and

646
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,599
get back into your window of tolerance, that's when you'll

647
00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,760
start wondering, what the fuck did I forget while I

648
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,519
was bananas. Yeah, the conversation between the mom and the

649
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,000
dad when they realize Kevin's gone is what happens because

650
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,880
you go into what's called split brain processing. When you

651
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,320
start dissociating, your logical side of the brain, which was

652
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,199
on the left. Fun fact, is starting to record everything

653
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,639
that's going on so you can go back and process later.

654
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,559
But that's not what you're using to survive. You're using

655
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:20,760
the right side of your brain, which is where your

656
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,559
emotions and response system is. Because you're late to the

657
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:27,320
airport and you gotta go, you just have to trust

658
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,079
your instinct that you already packed everything. Everything you see

659
00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:33,159
and whatever you see, that's what's coming along. And guess

660
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:34,079
who they didn't see.

661
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they shoved them up in the attic.

662
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: Right, they didn't see Kevin. So none of the response

663
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,119
that would have normally triggered to get Kevin in the

664
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:47,280
car happened. They were so stressed up they went, you,

665
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:50,039
oldest child, you count everybody and make sure that this

666
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,320
is and that's good enough. I'm solving this problem.

667
00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: Well, to be on her side, she did count the

668
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,199
appropriate eleve number of heads. They just weren't anticipating a

669
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,760
weird neighbor to be up in the van who also

670
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,559
had the same coat and hat as in the same height,

671
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,440
and the same going through and going through their suitcases.

672
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,079
So well, of course she would assume that someone that

673
00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:12,360
belongs to us, of course, not a kid that has

674
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,440
the audacity to go through a stranger's things.

675
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: I'm not blaming that. It's the parents. You know, the

676
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,639
parents didn't wake up on time and therefore freaked out

677
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,400
went into hyper arousal. We're not properly processing at the

678
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,400
rate at which I assume they normally would have.

679
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know that mom was standing on the

680
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:35,119
sit on that plane, and she was like, hold up,

681
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,519
I wasn't annoyed all morning by Kevin's mouth. She finally

682
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,760
realized the absence of the obnoxiousness that is Kevin, because

683
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,079
I'm sure she's like, oh, I haven't heard about from

684
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:50,280
Kevin all day and Kevin can't shut the fuck up?

685
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,079
Speaker 2: Right? How many times have any of us totally needed

686
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:56,840
one piece of paper, let's say, to go to the DMV,

687
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:01,239
for example, and had it in our hand the entire

688
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,599
time until you get to the fucking DMV and you

689
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,039
realize that the one piece of paper that totally proves

690
00:38:08,039 --> 00:38:10,079
your identity because the piece of mail they sent you

691
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:12,880
that comes to your house that is in your hand

692
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,400
doesn't count as mail. You had it in your hand

693
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:17,920
and thought about it the whole time, and then you

694
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,480
get there and you realize where is it on the counter?

695
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: And that's something I also want to point out, which

696
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,679
could just be very nineteen ninety, is how much the

697
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,039
mom holds all the stress in this movie, like she's

698
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,320
the one being comforted once they realize that Kevin's gone.

699
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,280
She's the one that seems to do all the in

700
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,920
my opinion, appropriate level of freaking out and of trying

701
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,679
to make it happen. I get to the other kids,

702
00:38:48,679 --> 00:38:50,760
and the dad kind of took the mantle of like,

703
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,039
I'll be with the other kids. But I guess it's

704
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:56,920
just something I wanted to point out as well, of

705
00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:00,280
like the gendered expectation of who bears the brunt of

706
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,119
something like this happening, and how that also adds to

707
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:06,920
the stress that probably leads to her being the more

708
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,480
dissociative of the two once they realize Kevin's gone.

709
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,639
Speaker 2: Right, So, speaking on that, I don't disagree the character

710
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:22,760
characterization of the dad exists to show nineties dynamics, no doubt. Yeah,

711
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,079
and the parenting brunt clearly falls largely on her, no doubt.

712
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,480
I don't have any disagreements with that. Looking at it

713
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:34,599
in the lens of the psychology, we see an alternative explanation,

714
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:41,880
while not dismissing his disconnectedness, is that Mom is showing

715
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:44,800
hallmark signs of dissociation because she's about to lose her

716
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:50,280
everloving shit, which is appropriate and understandable. I cannot imagine

717
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,880
the feeling of realizing you left your child who is

718
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,559
eight home by themselves while you're in another country and

719
00:39:57,679 --> 00:39:59,039
cannot immediately get to them.

720
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 4: You're across the an ocean.

721
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is no way back. That's you can't

722
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:05,960
just drive home. I mean, I think this's the emotional

723
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,360
impact of this movie is every parent and any anyone

724
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,639
can identify that stomach drop of like, oh God. But

725
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,159
Mom is trying to contain herself and her dissociation is

726
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:21,039
preventing her from entering a freak out that's just going

727
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:23,519
to get her arrested and further away from her kid

728
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,920
or whatever else is going to add more problems to

729
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,840
the situation that she just cannot afford. She has to

730
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,440
keep it together and keep herself contained. She cannot engage

731
00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:37,480
that freak out part that very much is breaking on

732
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:42,880
the surface. Dad, on the other hand, is completely disconnected

733
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,280
from all of that and is trying to go into

734
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,880
this operational motive. I have to keep everyone together and

735
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,800
keep this night. We are in a foreign country. We

736
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,800
need to do it this way. We have to do

737
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,440
this way, which he isn't wrong on, but the lack

738
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,840
of emotional response he's showing could be attributed to we

739
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,880
are in a crisis situation and we have to solve it.

740
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,679
And he has a little more resource to that. With

741
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,320
whatever it is that he does, they can afford that

742
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,079
big ass house.

743
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,559
Speaker 1: Well, their brother, the Paris brother, which I never realized

744
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,320
till this watching either the brother that lives in Paris,

745
00:41:13,639 --> 00:41:17,719
the uncle thills in Paris. He paid yeah for the trip. Hey,

746
00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:19,480
the big old house though, for sure?

747
00:41:19,639 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: Well right, but whatever it is, the dad is showing

748
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:30,599
some resource against stress, and well, again, I agree, he's

749
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:33,800
kind of disconnected that. Another way to look at that, though,

750
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:40,159
is that sometimes in critical moments, when you're encountering the

751
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,360
scariest things, people do not always behave in ways that

752
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,280
you think they will. People don't always react immediately because

753
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,480
they're not sure. They're so overloaded, they're just trying to

754
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:54,159
survive right now, so they're not able to freak out.

755
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:56,519
At that moment. When people are informed loved ones have

756
00:41:56,639 --> 00:42:00,559
died or that something happened or something has happens to them,

757
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:04,239
sometimes they look oddly calm and they're just kind of

758
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,840
like the dad is in this movie, like Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool,

759
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,360
this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna solve this,

760
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,440
we're gonna get And then when it comes down or

761
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,920
it becomes safe for them to turn back on. Then

762
00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:18,440
they're gonna go, what the fuck happened? How did that?

763
00:42:18,599 --> 00:42:21,199
They're gonna lose their shit somewhere else, But when it's

764
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:23,039
not safe for them to lose their shit in that moment,

765
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,960
they won't. So it's important to acknowledge the absolutely characterization

766
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,360
of this movie. It's pretty stereotypical, but it's not uncommon

767
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,519
to see people do that either of going Okay, we

768
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:35,360
have to solve this problem right now, and we will

769
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,719
freak out at a later point. Yeah, for sure.

770
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 4: Anything you want to add, Hannah, I think.

771
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: It really is typical of the nineties movie that the

772
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,599
dad is as disconnected as he is, because seemingly with

773
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:50,000
the relationship that he seems to have with the other kids,

774
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,159
it seems like he might be a little bit more involved.

775
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:54,039
But I feel like we just don't see that very much.

776
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,559
But also because the story is not really about him,

777
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,360
I feel like so. But I think holiday stress, between

778
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:04,840
getting the place you're supposed to be and bringing all

779
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,480
the things with you, and then you also have to

780
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,719
worry about the family dynamics when you get there, Holiday

781
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,000
stress is definitely something that makes people not act like

782
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:16,360
themselves and lots of different ways.

783
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 2: Also highlights the things that were broken long ago.

784
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:25,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, for sure, because there's always going to

785
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:28,639
be a tense moment when the person that everybody's been

786
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,159
waiting for to blow up at dinner finally does blow up.

787
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Like there's always something that we're kind of waiting for

788
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,159
to happen thinking about that there No, I'm thinking about

789
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:43,679
my family, oddly enough. There's just so many different things

790
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:47,960
that people can get just really freaked out about during

791
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,000
the holidays, And I know that it's something that as

792
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,840
a therapist, when we work with people, we always are

793
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,800
talking about families and what it's going to be like

794
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,280
to go home during this time, and how the dynamics

795
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,760
of a family really are highlighted because everyone is more

796
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:03,679
stressed out.

797
00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:09,559
Speaker 1: And there's also the stress and pressure to have a

798
00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:13,320
fantastic time. Yes, there's a lot of steaks put on

799
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,079
the holidays that can amp up the stress that you

800
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:19,119
sometimes have to spend the holidays with people that you

801
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:22,760
really don't like, but you are supposed to like because

802
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,960
they're related to you, or they're married to someone that's

803
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:30,039
related to you. So being put into a contained situation

804
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:35,400
with someone like uncle Frank, who you probably wouldn't pick

805
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,960
to hang out with if you weren't related, to put

806
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:43,039
up with everybody, get everything organized, and then to pull

807
00:44:43,039 --> 00:44:46,280
it off. Like there's so much pressure involved in all

808
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,320
of that that can also make holidays stress bananas. And

809
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,239
I don't think a lot of people ask themselves enough why.

810
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,559
Speaker 2: Am I doing this?

811
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: Where is the stress coming from a making these plans?

812
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:04,119
Why are the stakes feel so high? Why do we

813
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,760
feel like we need to force something out of this situation?

814
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:11,079
Which I think leads to sort of like the more

815
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:13,880
modern phenomenon, if you will, that's going on right now,

816
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,880
which is people putting up more boundaries with their families,

817
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,199
and that can include holidays, Oh yeah, and not being

818
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,719
received well understandably so by everybody. But I think more

819
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,360
people are asking themselves these questions we're talking about, which

820
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,320
is why am I going along with these ideas, these

821
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,840
expectations that I've never maybe been introspective about. And then

822
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,039
once you start being introspective about those things, it's hard

823
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:38,480
to stop.

824
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: It's very hard. And I think it's been the generational

825
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:50,239
divide between what boomers expect, the way that the exers

826
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:55,239
and the elder millennials were trained to deal with Uncle

827
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Frank's and to just put up with them and keep

828
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,239
inviting them even though they routinely ruin everything by being

829
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,679
a jerk and they're the person that blows up or

830
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:10,519
makes something bad every time. Whereas now you're seeing Z's

831
00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:13,559
and millennials as a whole kind of taking a movement

832
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:15,719
of your fuck Uncle Frank.

833
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't get to be invited over just because

834
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:19,679
he's related.

835
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. As we have our own houses and our

836
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,159
own things, we're seeing over and over Millennials take control

837
00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:32,119
of holidays and rest the control back to reform holidays

838
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:36,119
in a way that does bring joy and emotional safety

839
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,280
or just calm. They're protecting their peace and it is

840
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,039
something that they are no longer willing to sacrifice just

841
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,440
because somebody says so. Because they are family that we

842
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,800
see once a year, but every time we see them

843
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,639
it sucks. So why am I seeing drunk Uncle Frank?

844
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it makes me even go back to what

845
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,119
we were talking about earlier with Kevin, where a lot

846
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:03,360
of hims and family systems like this, where the priority

847
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,679
is to keep everything nice and the same and the same.

848
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,039
Is that a kid like Kevin will be centered in

849
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:17,039
terms of don't cause any problems, because if we try

850
00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:20,320
to go at uncle Frank, it will fuck with a

851
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,880
dynamic too much. It will cause a level of discomfort

852
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:28,599
we can't tolerate and what we will do to maintain

853
00:47:28,639 --> 00:47:34,920
status quo, especially in like white, upper middle class, waspy

854
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,960
sort of dynamics.

855
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: Oh girl, there's no upper middle in this story. Upper

856
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,039
upper Yeah, that's true. That's true.

857
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,679
Speaker 4: Even though Frank's so cheap.

858
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,159
Speaker 1: That's also not uncommon, right for like certain kids to

859
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:51,760
get the brunt of the problems in the family, because

860
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,280
we don't want to upset this level of comfort that

861
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,079
we've all decided to be fine with, Like we're more

862
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:03,840
comfortable with Frank being an asshole to our kids and

863
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,360
everyone acting like that's fine then really addressing what's going on,

864
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,440
because it's a level of uncomfortable that's not nice and polite, because.

865
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:13,079
Speaker 2: People are cowards.

866
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 3: They are people are freaking cowards, and they won't talk

867
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,679
about hard shit and they won't bring it up because

868
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,880
it is too uncomfortable, And especially when we talk about

869
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,039
Midwest nice, it certainly is a part of that. I mean,

870
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:30,440
it certainly is like my mother's family just pretends like

871
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,519
everything's fine and like nothing is going on, and there's

872
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:37,360
been all different kinds of shit going on for literally decades.

873
00:48:37,519 --> 00:48:41,559
Speaker 2: And because we've always it's like the adherence to the tradition. Yes, yes,

874
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:43,079
that's a good way to put it. That is a

875
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:47,960
good way to say, more important than adherence to your

876
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,320
own emotional needs.

877
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: Or actually, it's actually feeling good, because I think this

878
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,840
is actually a great segue into the other part of this,

879
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,920
which is old Man Marley and his dynamic with his

880
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:02,000
So let's take a break here and we'll.

881
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,039
Speaker 4: Be right back to talk about that.

882
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,039
Speaker 1: What's interesting about where we're going with this is old

883
00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:11,400
Man Marley is kind of an example of this right

884
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,039
where he and his son had it out and did

885
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:18,239
that classic if you walk away, I'm never gonna talk

886
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,599
to you again, think I don't want anything to do

887
00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:22,679
with you. And then they actually unfortunately stood by that

888
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,079
both of them and neither of them will be the

889
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:29,280
one to break that seal up to that point in

890
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,599
the movie. I think that's also something we can build

891
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:38,760
from what we're talking about, where if we never address hard,

892
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:45,239
uncomfortable things, then we have no script and no understanding

893
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,039
of how to talk about hard things, and because it's

894
00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:52,960
an unknown, we will allow ourselves to sit in the

895
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,639
comfort of never dealing with it and just being alone.

896
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,880
Then deal with the discomfort and fear of trying something different,

897
00:50:01,679 --> 00:50:04,639
because what he says in the movie is I'm afraid

898
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:06,480
if I call him. You know, the old man says

899
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,079
about his son, I'm afraid if I call my son,

900
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,119
he won't talk to me. And sweet little Kevin and

901
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:16,079
his infinite wisdom says, well, if you just do it,

902
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:18,840
then you'll know for sure whether he won't talk to

903
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,119
you or not, and then you can just figure out

904
00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:22,159
how to deal from.

905
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,199
Speaker 2: There, which is the most brilliant line of this film.

906
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,000
We honestly therapy in a nutshell. Stop giving the anxiety power.

907
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:32,000
You'll know what to do with it if it's a

908
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:34,559
yes or no, But if it's a maybe, it has

909
00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:37,679
power because you don't know what to do with it.

910
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:40,400
Once you get a yes or a no, you will

911
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,719
either resume the relationship or you can grieve it. But

912
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,119
if you give it, then maybe it continues to exist

913
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,079
in this powerful awfulness that makes you feel gripped with fear,

914
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:54,920
in action and indecision and stripped of all your resources.

915
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:59,360
It's terrible. Welcome to anxiety, one oh one, here's how

916
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,159
you defeat it.

917
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: It's such a class example of how we, unfortunately will

918
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:12,119
prefer to stay in this horrible limbo state where any

919
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:16,800
possible thing is true, instead of taking a little bit

920
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,920
of courage and just seeing what will happen and then

921
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:22,000
going from there.

922
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, because cutoffs in families become patterns. So let's say

923
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:31,960
Marley and his son never patch up anything, and they

924
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:35,719
maintain the estrangement until the father dies. There is a

925
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,840
higher chance that that son will do the same thing

926
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:39,880
to his son.

927
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:41,559
Speaker 4: Because it's more normalized.

928
00:51:41,639 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: Because it's more normalized and cutoffs.

929
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: In families when you do a genogram, a genogram is

930
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:51,719
essentially a map of the types of relationships that exist

931
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,719
in your family, whether it's a sibling or an anne

932
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,719
or uncle. Kind of encapsulates all of the different types

933
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,880
of relationships in this world on diagram that you learn

934
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,320
how to fill out when you get trained as a

935
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,760
marriage and family therapist. And one of the patterns that

936
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,599
we're supposed to look out for is cutoffs and relationships

937
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,679
when people stop talking to each other and the relationship

938
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,840
is null and void from then on. When you start

939
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,519
to notice in families that they have these big cutoffs

940
00:52:18,519 --> 00:52:22,880
that happen, they tend to happen generations later as well,

941
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,199
because once one son doesn't know how to not have

942
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,880
that relationship with their kid, who is going to learn

943
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,800
the person who's having it done to them or the

944
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:34,960
person who is doing it.

945
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,599
Speaker 1: Because to be able to communicate through a big emotional

946
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,039
fallout of some sort and really talk your way through it,

947
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,719
that is a skill, and it's a skill that requires

948
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:53,440
a level of emotional intelligence that not everybody has innately, yeah,

949
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,159
but can be taught.

950
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 4: If you are willing to learn.

951
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: Exactly everybody, as you know as a family therapist, not

952
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,000
everybody's willing to learn because of fear or pride or

953
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:09,039
anxiety or ego or.

954
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 2: Whatever, exactly all of those versus values.

955
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: Because I think what is prognostically positive about old man

956
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,400
Marley is that he doesn't seem to have pride or

957
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,800
ego caught up in it. It just seems scared, yes,

958
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,320
and doesn't know what to do, doesn't know how to

959
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,280
start the conversation.

960
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: So he seems like he.

961
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 4: Just has a lack of knowing what to do Versus.

962
00:53:35,559 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: I won't bring myself down to apologizing to my kid,

963
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,960
or to do any of the repair work that's needed

964
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,000
to get through emotional riff like that. You have to

965
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:51,079
be able to acknowledge what you've done to move through it,

966
00:53:51,119 --> 00:53:52,679
whether you meant to or not. That's where a lot

967
00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:54,519
of people get hung up to. As I'm sure you

968
00:53:54,559 --> 00:53:57,760
both know, is like intent versus impact. I didn't mean

969
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,199
to blop blah blah, shut up. Whether you meant to

970
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,000
or not is irrelevant. This is what happens. You did

971
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:08,440
something that cause an impact, and that's what's important. Go ahead, Hannah,

972
00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:10,880
and how you make somebody feels important because that's what

973
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:11,880
they fucking remember.

974
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:18,199
Speaker 2: Sure is. And when people get older into that Ericsonian

975
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,960
stage of ego integrity versus despair, this is the conflict.

976
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,039
This is exactly it. This is what causes it. Why

977
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:29,119
I mentioned values as the counter to those other things

978
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:32,400
we're talking about of ego or a culturation, all of

979
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,559
that versus the values you have of what does it

980
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,039
mean if I'm associating with this kind of person or not?

981
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,239
Or if I let the sin, does that make me weak?

982
00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:44,760
Or whatever it is? However, they learn to value that.

983
00:54:45,679 --> 00:54:48,599
I can't let my son who's selling drugs continue to

984
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:50,960
be in my life or otherwise I'm a criminal too.

985
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,599
That's kind of how the values question goes. Once people

986
00:54:54,679 --> 00:54:58,360
get to older age sixty five plus, they start to

987
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,559
struggle with this ego integrity versus despair, which is basically

988
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,480
what am I holding onto?

989
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

990
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 2: And does it still mean anything to me? Or am

991
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,880
I fucking lonely and sad because of my failures or

992
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,960
because my relationships are broken? And sometimes when they fail

993
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,599
that struggle, they continue holding on to things that once

994
00:55:19,679 --> 00:55:23,000
may have meant something but no longer do at this age,

995
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:26,840
whether it's family grudges or arguments, or how they should

996
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,760
have felt about their son standing up to them and

997
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,800
running their smart mouth and that's disrespectful to your father

998
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,960
or to your mother or whatever. Instead of realizing it

999
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,280
has been years, you are lonely, this is your child,

1000
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,719
and if you don't heal the rift with them, there

1001
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,039
will be nothing but loneliness. And that is where we

1002
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:52,719
see Martley struggling with and he whatever thing that it

1003
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,679
was that him and his son fought about. You see

1004
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,960
him kind of expressing to Kevin, it didn't even matter

1005
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:02,719
because I can't even remember I can't even remember, I

1006
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,480
don't even know what it is, or he just it

1007
00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:08,199
wasn't appropriate to talk about, which I got.

1008
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1009
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:14,760
Speaker 2: I thought he did a brilliant job of having an

1010
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,400
appropriate conversation of telling a child the truth without telling

1011
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,800
them details they didn't need.

1012
00:56:20,199 --> 00:56:22,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, keeping it simple.

1013
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, But he clearly is exactly in that phase where

1014
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,000
he's saying that stuff doesn't even matter. But I'm just

1015
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,719
I'm afraid now that I'll feel condemned to my loneliness.

1016
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,760
And right now I can hold onto the idea of

1017
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,079
maybe it won't be, but if I face it, I'll

1018
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,960
for sure be in despair. Yeah.

1019
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: And what I do actually really like that is kind

1020
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:49,440
of unique with in this movie, if you really think

1021
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,599
about it, is that the father, the older person, reaches

1022
00:56:53,639 --> 00:56:55,960
out to the son and he's the one that makes

1023
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,039
the phone call, and as you see in the movie,

1024
00:56:58,199 --> 00:56:59,639
it works out right away.

1025
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: And I think that's actually not that whimsical.

1026
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times in situations like this,

1027
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,320
sometimes people are waiting for the other person to finally

1028
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,039
reach out, and then as soon as they do, people

1029
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:14,159
can be very quick to forgive. Actually, I like seeing

1030
00:57:14,159 --> 00:57:16,519
that in this movie, and I like that it disrupts

1031
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:19,320
the idea that I think we're also seeing now more

1032
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,360
frequently with these boundaries we're talking about, is the older

1033
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,719
generation feeling like they are not supposed to be the

1034
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:31,400
ones that make the first move to reconciliation, that the kids,

1035
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:34,880
the younger generation has to be the one that reaches out,

1036
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,159
maybe even like gravels ask for forgiveness or they say

1037
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:41,880
this is how I'll change in. The older person just

1038
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,440
gets to like take advantage of that and they don't

1039
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:44,760
have to.

1040
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 4: Do any work.

1041
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: So I really hope that when people watch this they

1042
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,079
take away from it that the older person is the

1043
00:57:51,079 --> 00:57:54,679
one who shows humility by reaching out and probably saying

1044
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,840
I'm sorry, it's not important to me, and like you're

1045
00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,639
saying too ben Like, when I do this kind of

1046
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:03,880
in sessions with clients, I will talk about values, yeah,

1047
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,440
and I say it sounds like you value family. Are

1048
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,280
your behaviors matching that value or actually going farther away

1049
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,400
from it? And once you hook it into values, it

1050
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,719
can be really hard to reason with yourself about why

1051
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:16,840
you're doing what you're doing, To look at yourself in

1052
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,840
the mirror and be like, oh, I'm actually prioritizing my

1053
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,480
pride or my anxiety or whatever over my family, and

1054
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:28,559
does that feel good to say out loud and to

1055
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:30,880
really really actually acknowledge it.

1056
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:31,679
Speaker 2: That feels shitty.

1057
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: Usually it feels shitty, and that can be what motivates

1058
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:38,400
us to push through whatever barriers are in the way

1059
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:39,360
if we can get there.

1060
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: The other component of that, with all of those being

1061
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,039
right and important, is that it's also equally important to

1062
00:58:47,679 --> 00:58:52,719
re examine values at various stages of life, because unevaluated

1063
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:57,320
ones are attached to emotions, and the way our memories

1064
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,000
get stored is that what can happen is that sometimes

1065
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:05,039
when we get emotionally overwhelmed, all of the values that

1066
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:08,159
were developmentally present for us at the time that overwhelm

1067
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,480
happened can persist in our memories and get activated when

1068
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:16,599
we remember it again later in life, and that can

1069
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:19,440
draw us back to no, fuck that person, because they

1070
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,039
made me feel this way and they shouldn't do that,

1071
00:59:22,079 --> 00:59:26,480
and that's wrong without recognizing that may have been fifteen

1072
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,400
years ago, failing to recognize you, and they have grown

1073
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:36,400
a lot in fifteen years and transcended different stages of

1074
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:41,360
life yourself to where whatever mattered to you then may

1075
00:59:41,519 --> 00:59:44,960
not anymore instead of like looking at people like Uncle

1076
00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:50,960
Rico from I know, man, it's uncle Rico because it

1077
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,960
connects to me as an old football player, but not

1078
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:58,079
in the same way of like seeing people at are stuck, right,

1079
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,239
people that still think, you know, you can go back

1080
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,159
and repair that rift. Yeah, but Uncle Rico or Albano

1081
01:00:04,239 --> 01:00:07,000
al Bundy. Yeah, I keep taking it like it's not Ted.

1082
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:09,440
It's not Ted, it's not Ted, So of course what

1083
01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:12,000
I want to say Ted, Yeah, but al Bundy, like

1084
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:17,079
I threw four touchdowns. Sometimes people get stuck in certain

1085
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,000
parts of their identity that no longer have any relevance,

1086
01:00:21,039 --> 01:00:23,639
but they still adhere to it. People that were in

1087
01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:26,079
the military sometimes become part of this like, well, I

1088
01:00:26,119 --> 01:00:28,280
still have this value and I still believe. But that's

1089
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,280
not the same anymore in your life. And while it

1090
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,599
was important then and can still be part of who

1091
01:00:33,639 --> 01:00:36,599
you are now, that doesn't have to govern what makes

1092
01:00:36,599 --> 01:00:40,039
you happy at this phase in your life. And just

1093
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:41,960
because it would have been wrong for somebody to do

1094
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,119
that then doesn't mean you need to continue to cause

1095
01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:50,599
that estrangement now because they aren't the same person you're

1096
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:53,639
remembering them being, and they probably don't make you feel

1097
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,800
that same way now. But if you only have the

1098
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,199
memory to contend with, you have nothing in the present

1099
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:06,159
to overwrite that file and tell you it's okay and safe.

1100
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,440
To let that feeling go. That's part of what helps

1101
01:01:10,519 --> 01:01:13,960
us relax, recover, and feel resourced against things going okay, Well,

1102
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,400
if that does happen, I don't know what to do,

1103
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:18,400
But since I don't need to do that anymore, I

1104
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,760
can let that go. Many people have gone to high

1105
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,000
school reunions and found their old bullies and talked to

1106
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:25,039
them and like figured some stuff out without the need

1107
01:01:25,079 --> 01:01:29,079
to motherfuck them up and down because they realized, like, okay,

1108
01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:34,400
well we were kids then, you know, yeah, I do.

1109
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: I don't go to reunions neither.

1110
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 2: I don't know our generation will go to any unions

1111
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,079
because we don't have to because we can see what

1112
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:47,039
everybody's doing and it doesn't matter. Thanks social media. Yeah,

1113
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:47,760
all right.

1114
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,679
Speaker 1: Is there more we want to talk about in terms

1115
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,320
of estrangement, families and the holidays?

1116
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 2: I think last thing I want to say on it

1117
01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:57,119
is I am a fan of the millennial movement to

1118
01:01:58,119 --> 01:02:01,800
not continue to adhere to to that don't provide value,

1119
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,480
And I'm also not a fan of the over protective

1120
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,519
cutoffs that millennials and below are doing. I think there's

1121
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:14,440
a middle somewhere, and you may need to cut off

1122
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,440
for a while, or you may need to not go

1123
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,280
for a while, but don't let that become a pattern

1124
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,039
that persists forever and cuts you off from all your family,

1125
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:23,239
and that that's what you have to do.

1126
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're in a pendulum shift right now,

1127
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,760
which makes sense where people are going the whole other

1128
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,199
direction to try to figure out what the happy medium

1129
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,000
is or what's a healthy medium is eventually, because you're right,

1130
01:02:35,079 --> 01:02:39,159
there is this I think pushback right now, which I

1131
01:02:39,159 --> 01:02:40,639
did want to make sure to say too that just

1132
01:02:40,719 --> 01:02:43,719
because someone's your family doesn't mean that you have to

1133
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,840
put up with stuff Nope, and that you have to

1134
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,239
adhere to the value of family doesn't mean that you

1135
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:54,519
are putting up with your blood relations if they are

1136
01:02:55,239 --> 01:02:58,599
treating you in such a way that is not okay. Yeah,

1137
01:02:58,639 --> 01:03:00,000
So that's all I wanted to say.

1138
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 2: Right you can keep your value, but find a healthy

1139
01:03:03,039 --> 01:03:06,239
way to express it and identify with it at this

1140
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:07,280
phase in your life.

1141
01:03:08,239 --> 01:03:10,119
Speaker 1: Because, like we said, with this, I think why the

1142
01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:13,360
old man Marley thing works is because he demonstrates he

1143
01:03:13,519 --> 01:03:17,159
models that humility and love and value first.

1144
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 3: And something that we've talked about so much already on

1145
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,039
the podcast is also he was vulnerable. Oh yeah, Hm,

1146
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,119
you have to be in a lot of ways in

1147
01:03:26,199 --> 01:03:29,400
order to connect with someone, especially if someone we're estrange

1148
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,480
from being able to feel connected to them.

1149
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 4: Well, you got to be vulnerable.

1150
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: You have to be generous, and you have to be

1151
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,960
clear about what you want moving.

1152
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:44,159
Speaker 2: Forward, and you have to take accountability for what was

1153
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:48,960
your fault. That's the hugest one is you can't continue

1154
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,760
blaming someone else for your behavior.

1155
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:55,679
Speaker 1: And apologizing and saying some version of well my parent,

1156
01:03:56,039 --> 01:04:00,840
my dad is not a good reason, and you cannot

1157
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:03,239
take advantage of that so that people don't hold you

1158
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:05,719
acountable for your own shit. Yeah, and I think a

1159
01:04:05,719 --> 01:04:07,480
lot of people fall in that a lot. That's something

1160
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:10,280
I've seen watching family therapy is well, it's okay that

1161
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,199
I scream at my kid because my dad hit me,

1162
01:04:12,239 --> 01:04:14,840
and it's like, okay, well, I mean I'm glad that

1163
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,559
you toned it down, but an explanation is not an excuse.

1164
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we.

1165
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: Will take a break here and we will be write

1166
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,960
back with treatment. So I can put you on the spot, Hannah,

1167
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:28,119
since you're going to talk about what we've been just

1168
01:04:28,159 --> 01:04:30,639
discussing as part of your treatment, if you don't mind

1169
01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:31,400
going ahead.

1170
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.

1171
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,679
Speaker 3: So since we just talked about old man Marley and

1172
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:38,519
his son, that's who I'm going to do treatment with.

1173
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:42,000
And I'm sure no one will be surprised that I'll

1174
01:04:42,039 --> 01:04:44,280
be talking a little bit about the couple's dialogue.

1175
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:45,559
Speaker 2: So when I work with.

1176
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:51,119
Speaker 3: Families where there is an estrangement, something that is really

1177
01:04:51,159 --> 01:04:54,880
important to establish with them in the beginning is what

1178
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:55,679
is the goal?

1179
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:56,519
Speaker 4: Mm?

1180
01:04:56,719 --> 01:05:00,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, having a goal when their relationshi has been a

1181
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,039
strange for a certain amount of years, really can show

1182
01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:07,360
that both people are on the same page. Because often

1183
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,599
when people come in to get help like this, where

1184
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,679
maybe they have kind of reconnected, but their same patterns

1185
01:05:14,679 --> 01:05:19,079
of old communication is coming up somehow, or old patterns

1186
01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:22,719
of behavior comes up somehow, And so I see them

1187
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,280
coming into my office and really wanting to be able

1188
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,880
to process what happened, because neither one of them can

1189
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,280
really stop thinking about it, and they both feel uncomfortable

1190
01:05:34,519 --> 01:05:37,480
about talking about it to each other. And so one

1191
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,519
of the important things really is what is the goal?

1192
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:42,519
Speaker 2: Because if the goal is that you have to.

1193
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:47,599
Speaker 3: Be forgiven in order to have a communication or a relationship,

1194
01:05:48,159 --> 01:05:50,480
then that would have to be the goal for both people.

1195
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:52,800
It can't just be that You're going to say I'm

1196
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,880
sorry and then I'm going to finally feel vindicated, right.

1197
01:05:57,039 --> 01:06:00,679
The goal has to be something that is valuable to

1198
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,599
both people. And so when working with them, something that

1199
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:07,360
I would make sure to talk to them about is communication,

1200
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,199
because how we communicate and what we communicate also is

1201
01:06:11,239 --> 01:06:14,480
a way that we set boundaries and relationships, and so

1202
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,840
having a relationship where we have boundaries that help us

1203
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,440
feel more connected to each other but also more protected

1204
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:22,440
at the same time.

1205
01:06:22,639 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 2: And so I would definitely teach them the couple's dialogue.

1206
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 3: I've talked about the couple's dialogue and a couple different episodes,

1207
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,000
just going to give you a brief rundown of what

1208
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:34,119
that looks like. The reason why I teach the couple's

1209
01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:39,159
dialogue to families and couples and really anybody who has

1210
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:41,599
the second party that they need to discuss things with

1211
01:06:42,119 --> 01:06:46,039
is because the couple's dialogue is about how you feel

1212
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,960
and your emotions, and it's how we treat each other.

1213
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:54,000
That has the biggest impact and how we make someone feel.

1214
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:58,519
So that's why I use the couple's dialogue because it

1215
01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:01,199
isn't about who forgot the ads, and it's not about

1216
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,599
you didn't come to my baseball game when I was eight.

1217
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:07,960
It's about so many other different aspects to a relationship

1218
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:11,360
and so and communication is such a big hallmark of

1219
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,639
all of the connectedness that we can.

1220
01:07:13,519 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 2: Feel with someone.

1221
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 3: Basically with the couple's dialogue is you have a listener

1222
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,559
and you have a speaker. The speaker doesn't have to

1223
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:23,800
do anything besides USI statements. The listener has a whole

1224
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,599
stretch of things that they have to do.

1225
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,599
Speaker 2: So a part of being.

1226
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 3: The listener, and a part of the reason why the

1227
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,039
listener role is so important and has so many rules,

1228
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,760
is because the way that we normally argue in real

1229
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,159
life is we're always thinking about the next thing that

1230
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:38,719
we want.

1231
01:07:38,519 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 4: To say, waiting for your turn to talk, waiting for.

1232
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,239
Speaker 3: Your turn to talk. And when I teach the couple's dialogue,

1233
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,639
this is not like that at all. You have to

1234
01:07:46,719 --> 01:07:49,400
really be tuned into what your partner is saying. Because

1235
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,519
the first step is mirroring and mirroring can be very simple.

1236
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 2: It can be I am.

1237
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,079
Speaker 3: Upset at you because you forgot the eggs. So what

1238
01:07:58,119 --> 01:08:01,119
I'm hearing is that you're upset because I forgot the eggs.

1239
01:08:01,519 --> 01:08:04,239
Speaker 2: Is that right? Yes? Is there more?

1240
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 3: Sometimes when you forget the eggs, it makes me feel

1241
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,000
like you don't think about me.

1242
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:12,719
Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing you say is that sometimes when

1243
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,000
you when I forget the eggs, that I'm not thinking

1244
01:08:16,039 --> 01:08:16,479
about you.

1245
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 4: Is that right?

1246
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:19,239
Speaker 2: Yes? That's right?

1247
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:20,119
Speaker 4: Is there more?

1248
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 2: No?

1249
01:08:23,159 --> 01:08:26,399
Speaker 3: So then the second step, after you do the mirroring,

1250
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,760
and once the person says there isn't anything else, then

1251
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:35,359
you move on to validating. All validating is this, I

1252
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,399
understand that.

1253
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 2: That's it.

1254
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: I understand why me forgetting the eggs would make you

1255
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,479
feel that way. Yes, boom, And then I say, did

1256
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:44,199
I get that right?

1257
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 2: Yes?

1258
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:46,119
Speaker 4: Is there more?

1259
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 2: We don't do that with validation, okay, So you don't

1260
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:55,000
do the part that's okay. Just the feeling exists and

1261
01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:58,119
is okay to exist as it is. Exactly.

1262
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 3: Validating is not agreeing. Validating is literally just saying I

1263
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:04,159
understand that.

1264
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 2: Now.

1265
01:09:05,039 --> 01:09:06,640
Speaker 3: The question I get a lot of times. What I'm

1266
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,920
teaching this is what if I don't really understand, then

1267
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:14,039
you haven't done the mirroring enough to get an understanding,

1268
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:16,720
so that when you say I understand, you actually fucking

1269
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:17,960
understand and.

1270
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,079
Speaker 2: You mean that you understand, and you get the point,

1271
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:25,359
because if you don't and you act like you do,

1272
01:09:26,039 --> 01:09:30,119
you will fuck it up later, Yeah, and the trust

1273
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,000
will erode.

1274
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:37,199
Speaker 3: The third step is called empathize. The third step is

1275
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,159
where you pick two feelings that you think your partner

1276
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:42,920
might be feeling. That either can be something that they

1277
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:46,960
literally said, I feel upset when you forget to bring

1278
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:47,760
home the eggs.

1279
01:09:48,079 --> 01:09:50,079
Speaker 2: Can be you must be feeling upset.

1280
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 3: So empathizing is that must make you feel scared, upset, frustrated.

1281
01:09:57,319 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in this example, I might say, is the

1282
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:07,880
list you must feel disappointed and unseen when I forget

1283
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,760
the eggs? Yes?

1284
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,119
Speaker 4: Is that right?

1285
01:10:11,359 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: That is right?

1286
01:10:12,199 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 3: So then that's one person going at the end of that,

1287
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:17,760
then you do the person who was the listener is

1288
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,600
now the speaker, and now they get a chance to

1289
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,880
respond with maybe something like I didn't know that you

1290
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,880
felt like I don't think about you, And then that's

1291
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:30,760
how the next sets gets started, and then.

1292
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 2: You go through the three steps.

1293
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:33,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1294
01:10:33,319 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 2: So that's what the couple's dialogue is.

1295
01:10:36,279 --> 01:10:39,520
Speaker 3: That's what I would teach Marley and his son to

1296
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,000
be able to try to find a way to communicate

1297
01:10:42,039 --> 01:10:45,199
in the present moment instead of going back and hashing

1298
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:47,840
out every single thing that happened. First, We're going to

1299
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:52,079
start with them having a new experience together so that

1300
01:10:52,119 --> 01:10:54,159
they're both present for it, and also so we can

1301
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:56,920
create a new memory where they both feel heard and

1302
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:58,560
seen by the other person.

1303
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:02,319
Speaker 1: And that they're showing an effort. Absolutely, absolutely, because I

1304
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:05,039
think what I really like about couple's dialogue is that

1305
01:11:05,079 --> 01:11:08,039
the person who's listening, especially if they're getting feedback about

1306
01:11:08,079 --> 01:11:11,800
themselves from the share, is that they have to really

1307
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:16,560
swallow their ego and not get in their defensive self truly,

1308
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,640
and that can show a lot of goodwill to the

1309
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:23,840
other person that I am dedicated to, like not maybe

1310
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,720
repeating an old pattern where I'm getting really defensive and

1311
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,439
then I invalidate you because I prioritize my feelings and YadA, YadA, YadA.

1312
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 3: Which is why the most important part of the Couple's

1313
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,680
dialogue is asking in the beginning, is it a good

1314
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,600
time to talk? Because if you are both pissed trying

1315
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,720
to do mirroring, validation and empathizing is going to blow

1316
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,439
up in your fucking face so fast you won't know

1317
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:50,199
what happened. It has to be a good time. You

1318
01:11:50,319 --> 01:11:54,279
both have to be not escalated or dissociated about something.

1319
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:56,920
If you can't do that, then the answer to can

1320
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,560
we talk is no, Let's make a plan.

1321
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:02,279
Speaker 2: Let's make a plan. Can we try to talk tomorrow?

1322
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:06,199
Because if somebody's dissociated and you pop that bubble, let's

1323
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:10,279
say they're a hypo aroused state. They are creeping themselves cool,

1324
01:12:10,319 --> 01:12:12,800
so they don't flay your skin and roll you in salt,

1325
01:12:13,079 --> 01:12:18,439
and you pop the bubble, guess what's gonna happen. They're

1326
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:20,399
gonna blow up. They're gonna flay your skin, They're gonna

1327
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,920
roll you in salt because you pressed on them when

1328
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:26,279
they told you know, or if they didn't realize it

1329
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:28,720
and they weren't calm yet but they had been in

1330
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,359
a hyper aroused state to nope, I will kill everybody

1331
01:12:32,399 --> 01:12:35,720
here if I think about this long enough. You need

1332
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,920
to give people time and space to be out of

1333
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,079
all of those places and back to baseline in window

1334
01:12:42,279 --> 01:12:43,640
of tolerance zone.

1335
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,159
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you want to bring up

1336
01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:48,560
that you would do with Marley and his son.

1337
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 3: No, I really feel like this would be a case

1338
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,439
where I would call maybe like ten or twelve sessions

1339
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,159
I think would be really helpful to help get them

1340
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:59,600
through some of their communication. But that I think this

1341
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:01,760
would be something that would be maybe like a shorter

1342
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,880
term therapy because it's about one specific thing and they're

1343
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,359
both willing and open to talk about it and work

1344
01:13:08,399 --> 01:13:10,920
on it. So when I have both people have buy in,

1345
01:13:11,399 --> 01:13:13,960
then I think that that really helps their prognosis in

1346
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:16,880
terms of them being able to use the skill outside

1347
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:17,880
of a therapy setting.

1348
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, yep. And I think the augment I

1349
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,199
want to add to what Hannah is saying is remembering

1350
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:29,920
that couple's dialogue can create a relaxed muscle body by

1351
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,960
showing someone, not telling them, showing them that you are

1352
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:36,880
in a different place and willing to be safe with

1353
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:40,319
their feelings. Now you're going to have to stay there

1354
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,079
if you would like that to go in a forward direction,

1355
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:49,319
showing you're also over the fight. Both father and son

1356
01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:52,119
here will need to show to each other that the

1357
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:58,039
old fight really doesn't matter. It's not a trap. Yeah. Absolutely, Oh,

1358
01:13:58,119 --> 01:13:59,680
let's take a break. Care me right back.

1359
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:02,399
Speaker 1: I can jump on what you're saying, Hanah, because I'm

1360
01:14:02,399 --> 01:14:03,800
going to do family therapy as well.

1361
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 4: Obviously as the child therapist.

1362
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work with Kevin and his parents because this

1363
01:14:08,399 --> 01:14:11,319
is a dynamic. Unfortunately, I have seen quite a bit

1364
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,000
when I used to work exclusively with kids and kids

1365
01:14:15,039 --> 01:14:20,520
that would be deemed a behavioral problem. So I could

1366
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,760
see maybe if this whole home alone situation hasn't happened,

1367
01:14:24,079 --> 01:14:28,319
and Kevin keeps having behavioral problems where he might be

1368
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,119
misunderstood as someone maybe even with like conduct disorder, with

1369
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:34,840
like the lighting fires and the destructiveness and the defiance

1370
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,520
and argumentativeness. You know, I could see it getting to

1371
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,880
a head where they might go to a therapist like me,

1372
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,560
maybe not in nineteen ninety, but maybe nowadays and come

1373
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,399
in loaded with this idea of like how do we

1374
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,000
deal with a kid like Kevin? And then so my

1375
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:52,039
job as a therapist would be to one do psycho.

1376
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 4: Education, which is.

1377
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:58,239
Speaker 1: Maybe schooling the parents a bit on what is the

1378
01:14:58,319 --> 01:15:01,119
dynamic at home? What are you expl him, what is

1379
01:15:01,159 --> 01:15:04,680
your goal? I wouldn't be shocked if his parents had

1380
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:06,479
the goal that a lot of parents and guardians used

1381
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:07,800
to have with me, which is I want them to

1382
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,520
behave I want them to mind me.

1383
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,199
Speaker 4: Actually specifically, what I used to hear a lot, and.

1384
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: I would say, that's not my job to This isn't

1385
01:15:16,119 --> 01:15:21,399
dog training school to make your kid heal, And especially

1386
01:15:21,399 --> 01:15:24,640
with a kid that's that's as smart as Kevin, they

1387
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,520
just figure out how to work the system. And so

1388
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,760
with Kevin, well, one I'd want to make sure he

1389
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:35,279
got assessed for ADHD just in case. And then two,

1390
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:39,800
i'd really I would hope that we would gain awareness

1391
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,039
of like how smart he is. I would probably have

1392
01:15:42,079 --> 01:15:44,560
to do psycho with the parents too about that about

1393
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,640
like gifted kids and how they can become bored and

1394
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:50,760
behavioral issues YadA YadA. Also, and then what I would

1395
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,319
also express with the parents is like what's the dynamic

1396
01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:58,319
going on at home? How much attention is he getting?

1397
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:01,439
Is he getting any positive attention? And sometimes I would

1398
01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,720
have to work in that stuff with parents. We have

1399
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,359
to undo this cycle where your kid only gets negative

1400
01:16:06,359 --> 01:16:08,920
attention from you. You have to find time for them

1401
01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:11,840
where you spend quality time together that is not attached

1402
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,600
at all to their behavior, and that isn't supposed to

1403
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,560
be something lavish. I wouldn't say, like every week you

1404
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,439
take them out to like go bowling or the movies,

1405
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,159
no matter how he's behaved. That's not right because then

1406
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:24,800
you would just teach him that it doesn't matter how

1407
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,239
I behaved, I'll still get do something rad once a week.

1408
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,800
It's more that maybe you still have time once a

1409
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,560
week where you go on a walk together, or go

1410
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,800
fishing or like do something and then like go play basketball,

1411
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:41,640
something quality time related that's not flashy, that you always

1412
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:44,880
do together even if the kid is misbehaving, so that

1413
01:16:45,399 --> 01:16:49,319
they understand that they there's an unconditional, secure attachment between

1414
01:16:49,319 --> 01:16:50,720
the two of you and that they don't have to

1415
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:52,840
fight for your attention because they know at least once

1416
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,159
a week, I'll have one on one time with my parents,

1417
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:58,359
which is important when you have a lot of kids

1418
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:00,800
and you work and all that stuff. Kids do need

1419
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:02,840
that even if they're younger and they have a bunch

1420
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,760
of people in the house, that doesn't necessarily mean that

1421
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,039
they're getting quality time with anyone.

1422
01:17:08,239 --> 01:17:09,520
Speaker 2: And then two with something I.

1423
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:10,960
Speaker 1: Really hated in the movie, and this is what I

1424
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,000
would have to probably coach the parents on is when

1425
01:17:14,159 --> 01:17:21,279
something happens, something explosive happens, like the milk Pepsi pizza situation,

1426
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:25,880
to express some curiosity for fuck's sake about what's going on.

1427
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,600
I hated how the mom was just like shut him down,

1428
01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:31,279
took him upstairs.

1429
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,199
Speaker 2: When a kid is saying something to you.

1430
01:17:33,159 --> 01:17:38,319
Speaker 1: Like I hate your guts, I wish my family disappeared. Well, one,

1431
01:17:38,399 --> 01:17:40,560
don't take it personal like she did, where she's like,

1432
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:42,319
I hope you don't mean that. Maybe say it again

1433
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,319
where you're doing like this power struggly thing with him,

1434
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:50,159
especially with a smart kid, that doesn't matter. Don't get drawn, Yeah,

1435
01:17:50,199 --> 01:17:51,760
Like why are you arguing with an eight year old?

1436
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:53,359
You look like an idiot?

1437
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:54,039
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1438
01:17:54,079 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: And then two, when a kid is saying something that explosive,

1439
01:17:57,079 --> 01:18:00,920
they're trying to communicate a feeling they're having. And this

1440
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,159
is a lot of where we see more of that

1441
01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:05,159
gentle parenting nowadays. I'm not well versed enough in gentle

1442
01:18:05,159 --> 01:18:07,319
parenting to have a strong opinion about in either direction.

1443
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:09,960
I think what I've observed about it, which could help

1444
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:14,399
with this situation is getting to the crux of what's happening, Like, Hey,

1445
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:17,720
how are you feeling right now? Can you help me

1446
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,119
understand why you said that, and that does take time,

1447
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:25,000
which also maybe this mom and the parents are not

1448
01:18:25,079 --> 01:18:27,800
doing a good job of making When you choose to

1449
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:31,520
have kids, you need to make time for them. And

1450
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,039
part of that time and effort is this stuff here

1451
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:37,079
where you're not just figuring out what's going on underneath

1452
01:18:37,119 --> 01:18:40,920
this explosive behavior, but you're also showing him a different

1453
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,359
way to talk about your fucking failings other than acting out.

1454
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,399
As we've talked about from like Uncle Frank and Buzz

1455
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,359
and whatever. All this kid has seen that we've seen

1456
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,439
is that when you're having a big feeling, you act out,

1457
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,960
you express it in a way that's maybe not very kind.

1458
01:18:56,319 --> 01:18:58,039
And what the mom had a chance to do in

1459
01:18:58,039 --> 01:19:00,000
that moment is model a different way to do it.

1460
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,520
And also you can set boundaries too, Like I've had

1461
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:06,000
kids say everything that you could ever anything that a

1462
01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:08,079
person could say to another person. A little kid has

1463
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:10,439
probably said to me, including like swears and threats and

1464
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,520
things like that. What I would sometimes say to them is, hey,

1465
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,800
I get if you're angry.

1466
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 4: You can be angry. You can be angry with me.

1467
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:20,239
We're not gonna name call like.

1468
01:19:20,279 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: You can still establish boundaries without dismissing a kid or

1469
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,720
shutting them down. Like I think people don't understand there's

1470
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,640
a sweet spot there where you can change up the

1471
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:32,159
communication around and you can make it more about feelings

1472
01:19:32,359 --> 01:19:35,000
and communicating that and that doesn't mean that you're gonna

1473
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,680
put up with being like defiant and oppositional. I think

1474
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:42,439
that's also why sometimes people will have beef with gentle

1475
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,279
parenting is I think the way they they look at

1476
01:19:44,319 --> 01:19:46,239
it is you're spoiling the kid basically, and you're letting

1477
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:47,800
them do whatever they want, say whatever they want.

1478
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not right either.

1479
01:19:50,199 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: And like I said, when i'd work with kids, they

1480
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,439
would sometimes call me like a bitch or whatever, and

1481
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,520
they'd be like six, which is really funny, and I'd

1482
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,840
have to try not to laugh in that sexual voice.

1483
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:00,680
That'd be like you're such a and I'd be like,

1484
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,239
oh okay, But I would say, hey, you're allowed to

1485
01:20:03,279 --> 01:20:05,119
be angry with me. You're allowed to whatever feeling you have,

1486
01:20:05,319 --> 01:20:07,119
and that does not mean you can call me that.

1487
01:20:07,119 --> 01:20:08,960
I'm not gonna let you call me that when you're

1488
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,720
able to not engage in that behavior. I'm here, like

1489
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:14,760
I'm not going anywhere else, So We'll be physically here

1490
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,479
with you, but I'm not going to respond to you

1491
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,079
until you cut that out. And so you're setting a

1492
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:23,880
limit in a boundary, and you're also vouting their feelings

1493
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,319
and you're showing them like, I'm not going to reject

1494
01:20:26,359 --> 01:20:29,079
you because you acted out. And I wish the mom

1495
01:20:29,119 --> 01:20:31,239
would have done any of that. I think what I

1496
01:20:31,279 --> 01:20:33,039
do like about her at the end is she does

1497
01:20:33,119 --> 01:20:36,119
apologize and she does say I love you and I'm sorry,

1498
01:20:36,239 --> 01:20:37,600
and I think that's really great.

1499
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:38,399
Speaker 4: Maybe they can.

1500
01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: Grow from that moment. Maybe this will be like a

1501
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,560
turning point for them. But I think if that hadn't happened,

1502
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:45,800
they would definitely be parents in my office where I'd

1503
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,239
have to do a lot of this coaching and I'd

1504
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:49,760
have to tell them it's going to take work. It's

1505
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:51,439
going to take time. It's not going to be as

1506
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:53,279
simple for you as letting him go up to his room.

1507
01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:55,399
Then you get to ignore him. If you want this

1508
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:56,920
to stop, you're going to have to do the work

1509
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,159
too to get him to get this to be different.

1510
01:20:59,319 --> 01:21:01,920
The rollercoade you guys are on, you're all on it together.

1511
01:21:02,079 --> 01:21:03,680
It's not just this kid's a pill and we got

1512
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,199
to figure out how to make this kid stop being

1513
01:21:05,239 --> 01:21:08,399
such a fucking pill. Everybody has to do the work

1514
01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:10,000
of this, and that don't include fucking Buzz.

1515
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 4: I think I would also.

1516
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,399
Speaker 1: Say I could definitely see Kevin in my office being like, yeah,

1517
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:15,199
but Buzz does this and Buzz does that, and then

1518
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:16,880
I might have to have a conversation with the parents

1519
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,680
where I'm like, Kevin's brought up maybe not with Kevin present,

1520
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,000
but I'd say Kevin's brought up this one something many times,

1521
01:21:22,039 --> 01:21:22,960
what's going on with that?

1522
01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:25,199
Speaker 4: And then I might have to do some coaching around that.

1523
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 1: And so this is a family that does seem like

1524
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,479
they need a lot of parent coaching to understand how

1525
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:35,079
to help a kid like Kevin, and they'll reframe this

1526
01:21:35,159 --> 01:21:37,840
idea that there's something wrong with him, that he's just

1527
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,439
being disrespectful to be disrespectful. I've said this before, I'll

1528
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:42,680
say it again. I used to say a lot when

1529
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:45,439
I did family therapy like this every kid is doing

1530
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:47,880
is just trying to get a need met. Everything a

1531
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,159
kid does and says I would say everything a human

1532
01:21:50,199 --> 01:21:52,600
does and says, but everything especially a kid does and does,

1533
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:54,479
because trying to get a need met can you be

1534
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:57,600
curious about that instead of getting stuck on the behavior

1535
01:21:58,079 --> 01:22:01,720
that's like moot yep, that's just the language they're using

1536
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,520
to try to talk to you. So teach them a

1537
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,840
different language and you have to use it yourself if

1538
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:08,520
you're screaming back at them, and you're like, don't yell

1539
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,600
while you're yelling, grow up? Yeah, And also like where's

1540
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:15,279
this Kate gonna learn what to do instead, all they're

1541
01:22:15,319 --> 01:22:17,439
seeing is this. It's like this assumption that kids will

1542
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,520
naturally figure out a more mature way to be is

1543
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:24,000
so unfair and kids are have a right to be

1544
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:24,720
pissed about that.

1545
01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 4: This is why I'm a Kevin apologist.

1546
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:32,239
Speaker 1: I'm a behavioral kid apologist down So that's what I

1547
01:22:32,279 --> 01:22:34,640
would do with Kevin and his parents, And I would

1548
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:36,720
make sure that dad is in that office too, not

1549
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:38,279
just the mom, because this would also be a thing

1550
01:22:38,359 --> 01:22:40,039
that would happen a lot where like the mom shows

1551
01:22:40,119 --> 01:22:42,479
up to family therapy, not the dad. I'd be like,

1552
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:43,920
you guys both need to be in here and maybe

1553
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:47,039
even Buzz eventually, and the other siblings.

1554
01:22:47,119 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 2: So that's what I would do. I guess that leaves me.

1555
01:22:51,399 --> 01:22:55,000
I definitely think that Kate would be okay. The mom

1556
01:22:55,359 --> 01:22:59,039
would be my target person because as we watch her

1557
01:23:00,039 --> 01:23:05,439
throughout this film, she is so very dissociated. She is

1558
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:08,760
alternating between a hyper aroused and a hypo arouse date

1559
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:14,760
like we see her scream that can of realizing what happens.

1560
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:19,640
And also maybe this is probably a bit before all

1561
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:23,119
the airport's security changed dramatically, That's what I was thinking.

1562
01:23:23,239 --> 01:23:28,560
Oh tho, it changed a lot after two thousand and one,

1563
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,479
but it started changing before that. This movie exists before

1564
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:35,640
that time. Nowadays, you can't flip out in an airport

1565
01:23:36,199 --> 01:23:39,399
or you're going to get dechained. That may have been

1566
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:41,920
true to some degree then, especially in a foreign country.

1567
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,079
So she can't freak out. She has to solve this problem,

1568
01:23:46,199 --> 01:23:50,039
and we're seeing her run limited scripts. It makes no

1569
01:23:50,119 --> 01:23:52,359
sense for her to stay at the airport, but that,

1570
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,279
in her brain is the fastest way she can get home,

1571
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:59,119
so that's what she does. Dad makes a very very

1572
01:23:59,159 --> 01:24:02,680
poor error to tell her when he and all of

1573
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,119
the family get home at the nice, happy little ending

1574
01:24:05,119 --> 01:24:06,880
that like, how'd you guys get here?

1575
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 3: Oh?

1576
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 2: Well, we just took the flight you didn't want to

1577
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:14,319
wait for, So that I'm like, whoo, let's take a

1578
01:24:14,319 --> 01:24:16,840
class in dead husbands one oh one, my friend. But

1579
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:20,000
it's quite normal for people in her position to recognize,

1580
01:24:20,319 --> 01:24:23,680
I'm not leaving, I'm not moving. I'm staying right here

1581
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,600
in case something happens that whatever slot I'm hoping for,

1582
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,560
he opens up and I can solve the biggest problem

1583
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:31,840
that exists in my world. Because all the rest of

1584
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:35,000
my children and everybody else around me are fine, Kevin

1585
01:24:35,079 --> 01:24:39,159
is not. Therefore, Kevin is my focus. Getting to America

1586
01:24:39,359 --> 01:24:42,199
now is my only focus. We see the amount of

1587
01:24:42,239 --> 01:24:45,960
stress and strain on her as she is trying to

1588
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:48,920
stay together, or trying to keep her mind together, trying

1589
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,319
to keep herself composed enough that she can negotiate with

1590
01:24:52,359 --> 01:24:55,720
strangers during the holidays about giving up their flights and

1591
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:01,239
altering their plans and giving away valuables and money, everything

1592
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:04,199
that she has just to accomplish that goal. That is

1593
01:25:04,239 --> 01:25:09,079
what happens when we become locked into something that requires

1594
01:25:09,119 --> 01:25:12,359
it of us, which this does. I don't think she

1595
01:25:12,399 --> 01:25:15,279
did anything that I would look back on and go ooh,

1596
01:25:15,399 --> 01:25:18,119
shouldn't have done that. Now, All of it was appropriate,

1597
01:25:18,319 --> 01:25:21,119
all of it was a logical thing for her to try.

1598
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,880
But to run at that speed. She says she's been

1599
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,159
up for thirty hours straight to sit in a poker

1600
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:34,560
bonkers to not immediately interrupt John Candy, the one person

1601
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:38,039
there gus right, who is willing to help her and

1602
01:25:38,159 --> 01:25:40,960
is being genuinely nice to her, but is sitting and

1603
01:25:41,039 --> 01:25:45,239
singing poka songs that were famous fifteen years ago in

1604
01:25:45,319 --> 01:25:55,279
sheboygan Bananas, Bananas dude. Her kid is home alone in Chicago. Well,

1605
01:25:55,399 --> 01:25:58,680
you know when I can think of suburbs, it's the suburbs.

1606
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,800
But anyway, he is willing to get her from multiple flights,

1607
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:05,960
bouncing back and forth with each of them, hoping that

1608
01:26:06,319 --> 01:26:08,600
they will lead her to where she needs to get

1609
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,359
to to care for her son, while still knowing death

1610
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,199
happens in two minutes. She could get home and find

1611
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:21,439
her child dead, and she knows it. That's terrifying. She

1612
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:23,399
is trying to put all of that out of her

1613
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:26,399
mind to tell herself it will be okay. I just

1614
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,239
need to get there. That is irrational problem solving. They

1615
01:26:30,239 --> 01:26:31,880
needed to get someone else to get there, to get

1616
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,520
another adult who could be there immediately, but they tried

1617
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,760
that and it didn't work. That sucks. So she's doing

1618
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,960
the next thing that can occur to her, even if

1619
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,760
it's not logical, it makes sense in the simple enough

1620
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,640
that no one else will help me solve my problem.

1621
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:50,000
I will solve my problem. It happens to humans all

1622
01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:55,640
the time. But watching her struggle to not strangle Gus

1623
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:59,600
when he's singing Poka songs trying to shove his clarinet

1624
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:03,199
into her face, like she has any interest whatsoever in

1625
01:27:03,279 --> 01:27:05,880
anything other than getting home to her son, which she

1626
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:08,039
made very clear by all her actions.

1627
01:27:08,239 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to distract her.

1628
01:27:10,199 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: I get it, really, because I think he's being annoying.

1629
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:17,359
Speaker 1: I think he's I think both things can be true.

1630
01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 2: For sure, I think both things are true. But he

1631
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:24,760
was not reading her body language. Each successive thing she

1632
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:28,399
was saying no firmly. She was polite the first two times.

1633
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:30,920
The third time was I will shove that clarinet through

1634
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,600
your neck if you put it in my face again,

1635
01:27:34,399 --> 01:27:37,960
which it shouldn't have taken. The reality of how close

1636
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:41,760
to her child being gone forever she came, is going

1637
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:44,319
to hit her. When she calms down, it's going to

1638
01:27:44,399 --> 01:27:49,680
hit her, and she's going to be ridden with guilt

1639
01:27:50,039 --> 01:27:55,279
and shame and anger and the failure of every other

1640
01:27:55,399 --> 01:28:01,640
adult and every other adult adjacent child. All of those feelings,

1641
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,439
once the crisis is over, are going to be something

1642
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,279
she needs to deal with. And she's already showing a

1643
01:28:07,319 --> 01:28:10,119
propensity to call herself a bad mother, So I suspect

1644
01:28:10,239 --> 01:28:14,439
guilt and shame will be first. So I think for her,

1645
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:19,239
helping her cope with that is going to be priority one.

1646
01:28:19,359 --> 01:28:21,640
For me. I think she sticks out to me as

1647
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:25,159
the person who's most likely to struggle with that and

1648
01:28:25,239 --> 01:28:28,479
to have to explain that because that's going to be

1649
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:32,560
a story that someone hears hold of. Because these bandits

1650
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,239
have struck the whole neighborhood, everybody's going to know their story.

1651
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,399
Everybody's going to be in everybody's business, and everybody's going

1652
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:43,880
to know the McAllister's left Kevin home alone. That's a

1653
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:47,319
lot of guilt as it is, social services as sure

1654
01:28:47,319 --> 01:28:48,720
as fuck coming to the house.

1655
01:28:49,119 --> 01:28:51,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, So how would you treat that guilt? Ben?

1656
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 2: I would treat that guilt with a lot of trauma

1657
01:28:55,800 --> 01:28:58,399
treatment at first, to get through the shock and the

1658
01:28:58,399 --> 01:29:01,000
stun that she had to associate away from them. I

1659
01:29:01,039 --> 01:29:06,359
think using trauma afformed approaches possibly emdr of the moment

1660
01:29:06,359 --> 01:29:09,159
that you realize while you're mid flight that you left

1661
01:29:09,159 --> 01:29:11,640
your child, because she's going to have that burned into

1662
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:15,960
her head. And I also think that doing some kind

1663
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,880
of ego state ifs typework to help her reckon with

1664
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:24,399
the parts that are criticizing her and give them their due,

1665
01:29:25,079 --> 01:29:28,880
to create space that allows them to have a voice

1666
01:29:29,079 --> 01:29:32,800
that gives her something to approve upon that's true, while

1667
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:38,760
also tuning down the level of impact they have. And

1668
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:42,079
I think I've designed an exercise to deal with this

1669
01:29:42,279 --> 01:29:44,279
that kind of uses pie charts to do this to

1670
01:29:44,319 --> 01:29:47,279
help talk people through where I take their initial impression

1671
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,720
and have them assign however much blame they think goes

1672
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:52,800
to them and how much goes to something else, and

1673
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:55,159
they fill out the pie chart however they want, and

1674
01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:59,439
then I have them list all of the factors that

1675
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:04,600
actually went into the situation one by one and then

1676
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:07,079
put all of that into a pie chart to help

1677
01:30:07,199 --> 01:30:11,359
rebalance where the blame actually lies. And for this, there

1678
01:30:11,359 --> 01:30:13,600
were a lot of other eyes that also left Kevin.

1679
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,479
It isn't just her, and something like that can help

1680
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:20,000
her realize in a concrete manual where only one hundred

1681
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:23,680
percent are possible, this cannot possibly be all her fault.

1682
01:30:24,359 --> 01:30:28,960
Where the fuck is dad in this equation where's several adults,

1683
01:30:29,319 --> 01:30:32,319
several adults, and I get the factor of like, Okay,

1684
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:35,079
another kid that looked exactly like Kevin was acting like

1685
01:30:35,159 --> 01:30:38,239
Kevin fooled everybody when everybody was stressed and their perception

1686
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:42,000
was down, but also everybody was stressed. The fuck out

1687
01:30:42,359 --> 01:30:44,920
gets to go onto that pie chart that the situation

1688
01:30:45,079 --> 01:30:48,119
was bananas and nobody was operating their best, because people

1689
01:30:48,159 --> 01:30:51,960
need to have something that helps them generate self compassion

1690
01:30:53,199 --> 01:30:57,239
to be imperfect in order to defeat shame and guilt.

1691
01:30:57,399 --> 01:31:00,239
But you also cannot dismiss all of it because because

1692
01:31:00,279 --> 01:31:03,239
it's not true and your body and your parts won't

1693
01:31:03,319 --> 01:31:06,319
let you, you have to take from it what you

1694
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:11,319
need to to adapt and not repeat mistakes. So finding

1695
01:31:11,319 --> 01:31:13,159
that blend between the two is part of what that

1696
01:31:13,279 --> 01:31:17,199
exercise is for. So something like that would be what

1697
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:17,760
I would use.

1698
01:31:18,039 --> 01:31:20,640
Speaker 1: All right, So we'll take our last break here and

1699
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:21,920
be back with final thoughts.

1700
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 4: All right, who wants to go first? First? All right?

1701
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:27,319
Speaker 2: Go ahead?

1702
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 3: I love Home Alone. I've always loved it. I always

1703
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:34,079
watch it at Christmas time. Sometimes I even watch the

1704
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:40,439
second one and yeah, and I'll definitely watch this movie more.

1705
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,159
And I've always been on Kevin's side, so that's always

1706
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:46,439
been the thing. But yeah, but I love the movie

1707
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:47,840
and it was really fun to talk about.

1708
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:54,279
Speaker 2: I always love Home Alone. I still am impressed by

1709
01:31:54,279 --> 01:31:56,039
it each time I watch it. I watch it every year,

1710
01:31:56,079 --> 01:31:57,560
and my wife and I sit and turn to each

1711
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,720
other and say, like, this movie's really good.

1712
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:03,079
Speaker 4: Absolutely a really tightly written script.

1713
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:07,399
Speaker 2: Yes, it's tight. It's emotionally intelligent. It covers a lot

1714
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:11,680
of different things that all encapsulate the holidays. It is

1715
01:32:12,119 --> 01:32:17,359
the stier of holiday film. And I think it's great

1716
01:32:17,399 --> 01:32:20,079
and I look forward to watching it again. I hope

1717
01:32:20,079 --> 01:32:23,279
my child can find the appreciation for it we have.

1718
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,640
I do have to share with this that as I

1719
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:28,000
was watching this on the way to my mother in

1720
01:32:28,079 --> 01:32:32,079
law's house today, I was commenting to my wife, was like,

1721
01:32:32,359 --> 01:32:36,000
you know, Joe Peshy is just really good at being

1722
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:40,479
a tiny little menace. Yeah.

1723
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,079
Speaker 1: I think that is his type cast for sure, and

1724
01:32:43,359 --> 01:32:45,640
everything he's been in ever, Yes.

1725
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 2: To which my wife turned to me and said, he's

1726
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:48,479
my spirit animal.

1727
01:32:51,239 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 4: Well, they are both Italian.

1728
01:32:55,079 --> 01:33:02,359
Speaker 2: Truth. I just was like, your words, your words, and

1729
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:04,520
now I'm terrified for my life and I'm gonna make

1730
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,479
sure I never ever ever tell her she's funny.

1731
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:12,039
Speaker 1: Well on that note, On that note, I can give

1732
01:33:12,079 --> 01:33:15,359
my final thoughts. I love this movie. Of course, I'm

1733
01:33:15,399 --> 01:33:17,199
a nineties kid. I feel like part of being a

1734
01:33:17,279 --> 01:33:19,720
nineties kid is you must adore this movie. It's a

1735
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:24,039
staple in every health your face and say exact de moon, No,

1736
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,079
I had a talk boy, which was part of the

1737
01:33:27,119 --> 01:33:31,119
second movie. I owned a talkboy as a kid because

1738
01:33:31,159 --> 01:33:33,079
I needed one after seeing the sequel.

1739
01:33:33,239 --> 01:33:34,600
Speaker 2: And now you have a podcast.

1740
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 4: Maybe that's connected. Who could say?

1741
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 2: Who could say? So?

1742
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:40,279
Speaker 1: I don't think I've watched the second one in a

1743
01:33:40,279 --> 01:33:42,920
million years. I'm sure it's not that good, just because

1744
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,279
it seems wacky the idea of trying to do this again.

1745
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,880
But I love the first one. I love how smart

1746
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,000
Kevin is. I love how empathetic he is. I think

1747
01:33:53,039 --> 01:33:55,359
this movie does a good job of having that heart

1748
01:33:55,399 --> 01:33:57,159
to it. Or even as a kid, I would get

1749
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:01,159
like anxious when he wants to go to get the

1750
01:34:01,199 --> 01:34:03,439
new toothbrush and he's like, is this been approved by

1751
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:05,920
the American Dental It like made my stomach hurt As

1752
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,760
a kid, so I could feel it, and so I

1753
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:11,159
love this movie. I'll probably watch it a ton. I'm

1754
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:13,880
excited that my nieces and nephews are finally starting to

1755
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:15,600
get old enough or maybe I can show this to

1756
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,000
them soon and they would probably get a kick out

1757
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:19,960
of it. It is like a timeless movie, even though

1758
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,840
it's a lot of elements now that wouldn't happen with

1759
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:27,079
modern technology. Think the essence of the movie is very timeless.

1760
01:34:27,079 --> 01:34:29,439
And kids love to see another kid beat up a

1761
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:32,359
bunch of outwit and beat up a bunch of adults.

1762
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:33,000
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

1763
01:34:33,039 --> 01:34:34,560
Speaker 3: I got to watch it with a room full of

1764
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:38,199
nieces and nephews last year, and it was so much

1765
01:34:38,279 --> 01:34:41,680
fun because we're laughing so hard, whitting hurt.

1766
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:43,239
Speaker 2: It was glorious.

1767
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff in this movie

1768
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:47,039
that I think is a root to a lot of

1769
01:34:47,039 --> 01:34:49,720
things I can't stand nowadays, like seeing someone step on

1770
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:51,760
a nail. There's a lot of injuries in this movie

1771
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:54,000
that I cannot watch still, and I'm like, is this

1772
01:34:54,039 --> 01:34:58,319
word formed? It's my aversion to these things. So yes,

1773
01:34:58,399 --> 01:35:00,039
of course I will watch it a bunch again. I

1774
01:35:00,079 --> 01:35:01,720
think this is a three for three, which I don't

1775
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,920
always have very often on this show, but a three

1776
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:08,680
for three on this one. So as always, if you

1777
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:11,520
would like to find us on any social media, we

1778
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:15,399
are no longer on x or Twitter, we are on threads,

1779
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,000
We are on Instagram at popcorn Psychology. You can also

1780
01:35:18,079 --> 01:35:21,600
find us on Facebook and TikTok at popcorn Psychology. Oh well,

1781
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:23,159
if you want to reach out to us, you can

1782
01:35:23,199 --> 01:35:26,640
email us at popcorn psychologygmail dot com. As we said earlier,

1783
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:28,520
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1784
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:32,119
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1785
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,399
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1786
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:37,640
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1787
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:39,680
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1788
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:41,720
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1789
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:44,640
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1790
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:48,560
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1791
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:51,720
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1792
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,159
You know, keep the change, you filthy animals