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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to talk to my friend David Strom from

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<v Speaker 1>hot air dot com first, because this popped up over

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<v Speaker 1>the weekend and I saw it, but I didn't I

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<v Speaker 1>was busy when I read it, and I was like, oh, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even not even sure what Donald Trump is

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<v Speaker 1>saying in this post on truth Social. But David Strom

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<v Speaker 1>paid attention and he wrote a whole column about it

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<v Speaker 1>because in the post that President Trump put on truth Social,

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<v Speaker 1>it seemed to me, after I went back and read

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<v Speaker 1>it again, a bit of a shot across the bow

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<v Speaker 1>at both Pfizer and RFK Junior. So there was like

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<v Speaker 1>shots fired in all directions. But then I thought I

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<v Speaker 1>would let David come on and talk about it because

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<v Speaker 1>he did such a great job in his column.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to see you again, my friends, Hey, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I am fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>So what did that post on truth Social seem to

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<v Speaker 1>address in your view, David, Well.

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<v Speaker 3>Donald Trout for the past five years has been bragging

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<v Speaker 3>about Operation warp speed in the development of the COVID vaccines,

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<v Speaker 3>and he's been very consistent about that until this weekend.

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<v Speaker 3>And what he did was open up the question about

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<v Speaker 3>whether or not he's been lied to basically by the

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<v Speaker 3>big pharma companies. He says that you know, Pfizer in particular,

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<v Speaker 3>showed him a bunch of numbers about how many millions

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<v Speaker 3>of lives they saved, not just with the COVID vaccine actually,

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<v Speaker 3>but also with drugs like paxelvid, which a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>doctors say is a very dangerous drug because of liver toxicity,

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<v Speaker 3>and there are accusations at least that it is.

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<v Speaker 4>Just far more dangerous than it's worth.

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<v Speaker 3>And basically Trump's challenged them to dump.

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<v Speaker 4>Out all the data.

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<v Speaker 3>And show just vacation for all the claims that they

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<v Speaker 3>made to him. And you will notice that these companies

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<v Speaker 3>have not been nearly as vocal in recent months and

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<v Speaker 3>years about how great these vaccines are. And Trump seems

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<v Speaker 3>to be opening up the question of whether fraud was committed.

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<v Speaker 3>And this has a major major impact because it's not

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<v Speaker 3>just a public relations problem.

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<v Speaker 4>If that's the case.

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<v Speaker 3>These vaccines were put out under an emergency authorization, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, they made representations and that's how they got immunity,

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<v Speaker 3>and if fraud was committed, that immunity could in fact

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<v Speaker 3>be taken away.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, David, for me personally, one of my great regrets

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<v Speaker 1>as a talk show host. Was I read the studies

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<v Speaker 1>that were released by Pfizer. I read all of the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that they put out, and I said to my audience,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to take this vaccine. I think you should,

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<v Speaker 1>and I encourage people to get the vaccine because I

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<v Speaker 1>was using the information that Pizer made available. Pfizer apparently

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<v Speaker 1>kept all kinds of information behind the scenes, And I

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<v Speaker 1>know that I should have been more doubting by the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that they had to be given you know, liability

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<v Speaker 1>immunity going forward. That should have been the big clanging

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<v Speaker 1>you know, warning.

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<v Speaker 2>Sign read flag for me.

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<v Speaker 1>But apparently I, just as sometimes I did with men previously,

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<v Speaker 1>I just blew right through those warning signs. But this

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<v Speaker 1>to me feels significant because he also says, look, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I want them to show now to the CDC and

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<v Speaker 1>the public and clear up this mess one way or

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<v Speaker 1>the other.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>So is he also calling Bobby Kennedy Junior onto the

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<v Speaker 1>carpet tour, you know, not producing clearer documentation or does

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<v Speaker 1>he say that documentation doesn't necessarily exist within the CDC

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<v Speaker 1>because the drug companies are not giving it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, it all depends upon how the data

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<v Speaker 3>turns out. I mean, he certainly leaves open the question about,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, who's right and who's wrong, which is a

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<v Speaker 3>very new thing. And you know what his position on

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<v Speaker 3>Kennedy Throughout all this time, I think he's been very,

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<v Speaker 3>very supportive on the preventative medicine stuff, particularly nutrition and

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<v Speaker 3>other things make America healthy again. He has been more ambiguous,

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<v Speaker 3>I think on the question of vaccines, and one of

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<v Speaker 3>the things that we have to keep in mind. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Kennedy is the guy who as the Secretary

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<v Speaker 3>of Health and Human Services, people have the most familiarity,

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<v Speaker 3>but the people underneath him, you know, doctor Vna Pisad

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<v Speaker 3>and Jay Badakaria. These are medical professionals with decades of experience.

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<v Speaker 3>Badakari is one of the best public health and virologists

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<v Speaker 3>out there, and Prisad has very nuanced positions on vaccines.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course you've got Martin mccurey as well at

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<v Speaker 3>the FDA, and these are all really top notch, exceptional people,

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<v Speaker 3>and I think that they're going to be the ultimate

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<v Speaker 3>judges of this.

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<v Speaker 4>The people who give advice to drump on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, I just I thought this was extremely interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm interested to see what happens next, because it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be hard to argue that if a drug company

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<v Speaker 1>was given protection from liability based on incomplete information, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to know more about that process.

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<v Speaker 2>How was the.

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<v Speaker 1>Decision made to give them immunity from liability from these vaccines?

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<v Speaker 1>Was that decision made with all of the information available?

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<v Speaker 2>I doubt it was.

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<v Speaker 1>So those are the kind of things implications. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean this could have incredibly far reaching ramifications. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think you said it best in your column today at

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<v Speaker 1>hot air dot com. I'm not anti big pharma across

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<v Speaker 1>the board, but what I am anti big pharma about

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<v Speaker 1>is the notion that drugs somehow need to be underpatent

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<v Speaker 1>indefinitely so generics can never be made, and the way

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<v Speaker 1>they gain the system to their advantage.

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<v Speaker 2>Over and over and over again. I am very.

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<v Speaker 1>Frustrated with the industry as a whole and would like

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<v Speaker 1>to see them perhaps brought to heal. I don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>want to see them destroyed, but I would like to

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<v Speaker 1>see them brought to heel just a bit, and this

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<v Speaker 1>may be a starting way to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Yeah, and one of the things that we have

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<v Speaker 3>to understand, I thought about this quite a bit, because

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<v Speaker 3>I'm actually a major consumer of pharmaceuticals.

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<v Speaker 4>I have heart issues.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, even if, for instance, liability the liability

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<v Speaker 3>shield is taken away from Pfizer, that would not actually

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<v Speaker 3>mean that and Pfeiser went down that which would be

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<v Speaker 3>the result of that, There's no question about it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>even if the evidence is ambiguous, put any of these

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<v Speaker 3>cases in front of a jury, and I guarantee you

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<v Speaker 3>they're going to pick the injured person over the pharmaceutical company,

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<v Speaker 3>even if the evidence is ambiguous.

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<v Speaker 4>That's just the way that the jury system works.

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<v Speaker 3>So what would happen, Well, first of all, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Peiser as a company might go down, it might get stripped,

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<v Speaker 3>but all the intellectual property would exist, all the people,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's basically the executives who would be out

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<v Speaker 3>on the researchers would still be there. They would be

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<v Speaker 3>picked up by other people. It would not actually be

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<v Speaker 3>a death blow to the kinds of research that are

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<v Speaker 3>going on, but it would be an enormous impact on

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<v Speaker 3>the way in which pharmaceutical companies operate, which is clearly ropped.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'd love to believe that that's true. But perdue

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<v Speaker 1>Pharma in twenty twenty five, agreed to a seven point

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<v Speaker 1>four billion dollar settlement on oxy cotton alone. Right now,

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<v Speaker 1>the Sackler family has now backed out of Purdue Pharma, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>we're just going we're going to wash.

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<v Speaker 2>Our hands of this. Nobody went to jail.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody in that family is ever going to pay the

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<v Speaker 1>price for what they did in unleashing the opioid epidemic

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<v Speaker 1>in this country by lying to doctors, by misrepresenting information.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't think there's any reason to think that

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<v Speaker 1>if Iiser ended up having to pay significant settlements. I

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<v Speaker 1>think seven four billion dollars would probably cover a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people who have a vaccine injury or may have

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<v Speaker 1>lost a loved one. But the reality is is that

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<v Speaker 1>these are just little speed bumps for these companies. They're

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<v Speaker 1>just little price of doing business type things.

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<v Speaker 2>And i'd like to see to your point.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to see someone go to jail like you're

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<v Speaker 1>lying to the president, which seems to be what the

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<v Speaker 1>President is implying.

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<v Speaker 2>Here, go to jail. That's what I want to see.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that would be far more compelling than

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<v Speaker 1>thousands and millions and billions of dollars in fines or

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<v Speaker 1>judgments or whatever send somebody to jail, and every other

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<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical company has to pay attention.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think that's right.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm skeptical as you are that it would actually happen.

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<v Speaker 3>I think ultimately the place where the real pressure point

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<v Speaker 3>is going to be is in reforming the FDA, reforming

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<v Speaker 3>the CDC. And you can see because ultimately they're the

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<v Speaker 3>people who push this over the hump. I mean, we

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<v Speaker 3>should not expect a pharmaceutical company to voluntarily, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>go out of their way to tell people that, well,

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<v Speaker 3>here's this product that's going to make us hundreds of

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<v Speaker 3>billions of dollars, you know, and that's what we're talking about,

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<v Speaker 3>hundreds of billions of dollars. They're not going to go

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<v Speaker 3>out of their way to volunteer bid information about that.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the responsibility of our regulators to ensure that

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<v Speaker 3>they've got.

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<v Speaker 4>All the data.

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<v Speaker 3>And our regulators failed absolutely miserably. They were bound and

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<v Speaker 3>determined to get a vaccine out and they were at

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<v Speaker 3>least as complicit in lying about it. And there were

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, there was not a lot of coverage of this.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we're now hearing about this, This satanist who

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<v Speaker 3>quit theff at the FDA or I'm sorry, the CDC,

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<v Speaker 3>and everybody is crying about it, but actually the top

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<v Speaker 3>two vaccine regulators during COVID actually did not want to

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<v Speaker 3>have the COVID boosters approved. They said, there's we don't

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<v Speaker 3>have enough data about this, we're making representations, there's no

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<v Speaker 3>safety data on this, and the media, so they resigned.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, the top two FDA regulators resigned during that.

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<v Speaker 3>And I guarantee you that ninety nine nine percent of

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<v Speaker 3>Americans don't know about that, whereas they know about the

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<v Speaker 3>guy with the you know, the leather pentagram as a hero.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's just bizarre.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>Amen to that.

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<v Speaker 1>David Thram is my guest today. You can read his

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<v Speaker 1>work at hot air dot com. Appreciate you making time

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<v Speaker 1>for me today. David always all right, man, I'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>to you soon. I have a link to that article

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<v Speaker 1>today as well on the blog at mandy'sblog dot com.