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Speaker 1: Big food and on with Cliff and Bubo.

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Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites. So like Shay subscribe and

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raid it.

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Speaker 3: Lip stock.

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Speaker 2: Me gregeous cone.

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Speaker 1: Fish today and listening watching limb always keep it squatchy.

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Speaker 3: And now you're hosts Cliff Berckman and James Bubo Fay.

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Speaker 2: What's up, bubs? Oh not less. It's called the Eclivie.

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Oh just stuff, you know, working and living and doing

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all that sort of stuff. Been out in the woods

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a little bit. I went to the Olympic Peninsula this

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past week. Spent three nights out there, I guess, and

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for nothing. You know, it's a lot of good camping.

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No bigfooting, no bigfoot around her, as far as I

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can tell, I dropped by that property, Michael's property outside

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of Port Angelis there where we got that got that

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handprint and the footprints in the past and whatever else.

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Didn't seem to be anything going on there, not on

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the property. Of course. I'm referring to Michael who and

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he and his family are snowbirders, so they've been off

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the property for many many, many many months since basically

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last winter. And I always and they're going to be

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popping by again, I guess this summer. So I always

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like to drop by their property after about four or

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five six months of their absence to see if the

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bigfoots have been around. But I didn't find any sign

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whatsoever on their property. And then I walked the logging

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roads all around the area as well for nothing. So

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if the sasquatches have been around, I couldn't find any

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sign of them.

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Speaker 3: That sucks, because that was always such a That place

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was always the guild, I mean there was they were

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always there at some point.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm sure they're there, but just you know,

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I didn't see any sign as the deal. You know,

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I walked down in the ravine and whatever else, looked

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around for some tracks, and you know, there were some

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possible things here and there or whatever, but nothing you

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can really say, oh yeah, that's a sasquatch right there.

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A lot of bear sign though, I will say that

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a lot of bear sign. So maybe I don't know

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if sasquatches and bears have, you know, some sort of

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mutual exclusion thing going on where ones around and therefore

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the other isn't. But if there is any connection whatsoever

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in that sort of in that sort of area, I

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guess the bears are there. The Sasquatches aren't so right.

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But I did spend a few other nights in the woods.

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I got to see some upper reaches of some drainages

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I've wanted to get into for a while. For the

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next night or two, I even dropped by and saw

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Derek Randall's for a minute. Oh you did, Yeah, yeah,

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he was gonna meet with his family up at the

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Olympic Project property, like his kids and whatever else, right,

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you know. So I got to see two of his kids,

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which is always fun for me because they have they're like,

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you know, young men with families and stuff now. And

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you know, I did remember doing a footprint investigation with

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both of his sons or two of his sons, I guess,

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and they were like ten and fourteen or something at

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the time. So it's kind of fun to see how

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they're growing up and everything. Right, Yeah, but what's up

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with you, man? Anything good?

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Speaker 3: I went down saw of them, and some friends went

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down south, flew down for a couple of days. A

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bunch of guys from like our eighth grade class, but

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like half the guys in our class, there's like thirteen

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of us. But the hat the guys have our birthdays

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within like a couple of weeks of each other, so

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we had like a get together for that. There was

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a couple of pigeons there, but I think there's only

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one pigeon in my class, that guy Jones, m either got.

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Speaker 2: The rest of them are like two years younger I see, okay,

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or a year.

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Speaker 3: Younger somewhere a younger or two years younger, and then Jones,

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and I think Jones and he were the only ones

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our grade.

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Speaker 2: Any good stories pop up, anything you'd forgotten about?

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Speaker 3: Oh, tons, my brother, come on here, nerves a bunch

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of them.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'd love that. Dide. You look at Mike and

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he'll go for hours. Sounds good. Yeah, and oh but

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flying down it suck. It was way gathered around.

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Speaker 3: It's foremost story. Dude, He's gonna see some things that'll

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bow my classic an.

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Speaker 1: He's lying, He's going a kid kill me hin.

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Speaker 2: It's boubo story.

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Speaker 1: Any description of felonious or criminal activity is being told

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here strictly for entertainment purposes, and is in no way

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admission of guilt or even true for that matter.

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Speaker 3: You got down. It was a hot day and we

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got down to the flu. I had a connect, and

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usually I just fled direct to LA. I've had a

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connect with San Francisco, which is always a nightmare, usually

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always not Actually the last few years it's been all right,

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but he used to always be a nightmare. And anyways,

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came down there and there was like dindor storms, all

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this stuff going to the east and tornadoes and whatever.

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So they're diverting planes and we sitting on the runway

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for like an hour or not. Oh, I was going

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on and they double booked because my buddy, he's one

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of the guys in are that I graduated with.

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Speaker 2: He's a like Internet.

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Speaker 3: He's global director of international shipping company and he has

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like over two million air miles or something. He's got

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tons of free air minds like he's got over a

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million miles and he can just get away. So he

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got me a ticket to come down. I was like, oh,

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I had no big deal, just just I just need

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a window, Just make sure I got a window seating.

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And I didn't realize that the one that flies direct

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to LA and back has like it's a good plan,

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like you can have enough room and your knees aren't

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pressing in the seat in front of you.

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Speaker 2: And all that.

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Speaker 3: But on the way back, I was in one of

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those cattle car I mean on the way from San Francisco,

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La was one of those cattle car planes. You're just

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all just wedging, like no matter what, you're just pressed

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up because to the other people, your knees are gust

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the seat.

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Speaker 2: In front of you.

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Speaker 3: And so I was double books I went and then

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so I already threw my backpack where I thought I

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was gonna be sitting. They moved me and I went

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up and talked to the stewardess. I was like, hey,

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there's some guys sitting in my seat. He goes, oh,

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I'll get you something. I said, yeah, it's got to

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be a window. And she goes, yeah, yeah, okay, we

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got it. And because there was a full flight, and

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then so then they had me sit up way closer

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to the front, but there were still people getting on board.

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Speaker 2: I had to go against the whole grain to get

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up there.

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Speaker 3: To you don't feel like go against the traffic when

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you're trying to get board the plane. There's one jack

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a lope that's always like trying to go back to

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the front of the plane.

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Speaker 2: And that was you that was me, which I hate

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that person. So then I didn't want to go back.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to go back and get my back

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I got that was because all the overhead bins were

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filled by the time everyone came out, and I was like,

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I'm not going to pull it out.

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Speaker 2: I had to get after the after the flight. So

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I'm sitting in there.

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Speaker 3: This this big, huge, fat guy I saw in the lobby,

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like in a wheelchair. He came on last, actually instead

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of first. He goes waddling down and I was sitting there.

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I was like, oh no, and I'm like this when

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was the only see I see is next to me?

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And he caes waddling down, dude, like they're helping him

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come down like he was. He was out of the

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wheelchair at this point and he's just like hold grabbing

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seatbacks like for balance, and I kind of struggling down

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and he plops in next to me. Du He just

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was like in my seat, like there's no way that

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we could both sit next to it. It was it

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was impossible, but they gave him a belt extension and

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he got in there and I was just crammed in.

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I was like, sucks.

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Speaker 2: And we sat on the runway for almost just like

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fifty five It was just sort of an hour. We

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sat the.

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Speaker 3: Runway and he wasn't working anything, the air wasn't on.

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We were just sweating, just sweating there. And the guy

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he was trying to like you know, I was like, dude,

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you know, you can't be in my seat. And because

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he came on last, he had his back so he

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had to put his bag under his feet, so it's

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his like his leg was completely in my seat, like

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I was totally twisted sideways. We selegraphed for fifty five minutes.

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It was hot as hell, sweating, and we finally take

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off and we go and we go to we five

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to LA. We're like ten minutes from landing, and he

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just goes, he put his head down, like put it.

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He put it like covered his face with his hands.

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The dude just crapped his pants.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it's.

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Speaker 3: Going to speed like leaking all over me and stuffing.

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I go, dude, you need to help to get up,

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you need some help together. Guess he goes, I can't.

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He's like shook his head and I was just like,

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oh no, And then but I can see that he

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had and then that's why I noticed he had a

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diaper on, so I was like, okay, look like he

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had a diaper.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't look like it, whereas he did have a

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diaper on it turned out, but still do do is.

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Speaker 3: And we sat on the roadway there for forty five

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minutes waiting for our space to open up because they

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would have shorter cleaning cruise. So I was sitting there

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next to this guy. So instead of being like giving

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round in ten minutes and you know, another ten minutes

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so we're off the plane or whatever, it was like

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another hour and twenty minutes. So like just sitting at

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this guy just full of like inches from my head,

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just breathing. It was just so gnarled, and the air

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wasn't on again, and it was it was one of

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the worst extras, and we were both drenched in sweat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course you're you're both victims to hear

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it because the guy clearly, you know, was not maybe

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well obviously you know, and then of course you have

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to deal with it as well. It's just there there. Yeah.

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I don't know, I don't know who I feel worse

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for you were him. Honestly, I felt worse for him

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because he was super embarrassed. He was, He wasn't just

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like oh whatever. Oh and the lady next to him

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was pretty bummed too, I bet, but she could at

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least lean into the aisle. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But then the flight, the flight home, I got he

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bumped me up to first class because on the way

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that he said, you gave me first class, I'm like, no,

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don't worry about because it was all filled. Anyways, on

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the way back, is he to get me your first

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class seat? So that was so I had a very

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smooth trip home.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that that helped make up for it a little bit,

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I guess. So stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond

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with Cliff and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. Well,

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what are we doing this week? Then? Glenn Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Thomas. People love the historical deep dives. So when

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I was going back through the notes, we have referenced

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Glenn Thomas and his various sightings and the one in particular,

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I bet you we've referenced it like thirty times over

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the seven years that we've been doing this podcast. So

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this just seemed like a natural deep dive instead of

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always like making quick references and then telling people where

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to go look into it. I figured we would just

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cover it, and so the version that I have pulled

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up is I think the definitive version is John Green's

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version from Apes among Us from first hand interviews, and

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it also has not only the most famous, you know,

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the most detailed of the stories and sightings, but he

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also covers the additional sightings too, So I thought that

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that would be a good one to cover today.

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Speaker 2: Sounds great. Yeah, it's a great, great report. It's local.

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I love that it's just right down the Clacamus River,

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and I guess when we get there, but we'll learn

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more about it. These rock pits and whatever else said

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he witnessed being dug out. They're still there, although they're

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not in good shape. I will say that I didn't

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go there this past year, but I think I was

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there a year before and they're just not in good

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shape anymore. So whatever that's worth. Oh, maybe I was

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there this past year thinking about it? Why was I

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up there? Who was I show? Oh? I remember I was.

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I was up there this past year. I think I

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went up there in August if I remember right. But anyway,

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yeah's so, how do we want to do this? You

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want to jump in and start reading the story and

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we comment on it like we did before, or.

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Speaker 1: I think that'd be the good way to do it,

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all right, Yeah, I think it'd be good to start

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with John Green sort of preamble, because I think it's

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it's apropos. But he starts. For anyone who has the book,

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it's a memorable page number. The story starts on page

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four to twenty of Apes among Us, and John starts

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with considering how rare it is for a person to

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see a sasquatch once. It always seems suspicious when someone

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reports that it has happened to them twice, although there

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is certainly nothing impossible about it. Unfortunately, from that point

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of view, four of the most informative of all siding

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reports come from the same man. Nor does it help

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much that all those sidings took place within a period

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of a little more than a year. But the man

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had been spending every available hour since the first encounter

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trying to find the things again, and he lived where

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he could be in good country. Within minutes after leaving

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his home, all his reports seemed entirely reasonable, and there

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was no indication that he was not a reliable person.

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He did not gain anything by telling the stories. In fact,

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he did not tell them unless asked, and was most

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insistent that his name be kept secret for fear that

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his neighbors would find out what he was doing. While

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the rest of us were wondering how he could possibly

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have seen so much, I expect he was wondering how

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we could have been fooling around for so long without

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seeing anything. But his most recent siding was more than

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eight years ago now, and he has been hunting most

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of that time. It's my personal opinion that he's telling

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the truth. If he isn't, I don't know who is.

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So we wanted to comment on that before we move on.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely, there's this thing, especially with the early researchers,

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and John Green is obviously one of those that if

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you had seen a sasquatch more than once, you're probably

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a liar. And no, John Green didn't come out and

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say that in this paragraph and said, he kind of

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said the opposite. He said, Ah, there's plenty of reasons

289
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to not believe him, but I kind of believe him.

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Is the gist of that paragraph he just read. But

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I mean, I was reading Peter Burns's book on the

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Way out to the IILE Conference a few weeks ago

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and he said, yeah, anybody has seen more than once.

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I just don't believe, you know. It's like really and

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it kind of what really reminds me of is the

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Paul Freeman stuff. Honestly, I'm going to go back there again,

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I believe. And I actually this is in writing this

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past month, Daniel Perez, who publishes The Bigfoot Times every

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single month, he did a feature on me. So I

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got to do it at a written interview with him,

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and I think I put something in there that was

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a little maybe not prickly, but like a little surprising

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to him because I basically said that I think all

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the early researchers, John Green, you know, Renade Hinton, et cetera,

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didn't think Paul was telling the truth because you got

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so much and those early researchers got so little. Is

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the deal, you know. But the fact is, just like

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this Glen Thomas guy, if you're out there, you have

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a way higher chance of actually doing stuff instead of

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chasing sightings. See, if you're chasing sightings, which is what

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most of the early researchers did, not all, but most

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of them, then you are going to a place where

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a bigfoot was instead of where one might be. You

314
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know what I mean, you're going to the places where

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it already was. And sure it might be in the area,

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you might get lucky or something like that. But if

317
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you're in the area, I think you have a better

318
00:13:42,759 --> 00:13:44,720
chance of seeing it. I just think that if you're

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out there in a general zone. And this zone where

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Glen Thomas was working is very good. It's at the

321
00:13:50,919 --> 00:13:54,000
Callawah River down the Klacamus is still very very good.

322
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You can see these things more than once, is the

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gist of it, because they're just regular animals. It's like

324
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seeing a bear more than once. It's just very very rare.

325
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And some people are lucky. I mean, Bobo's seen sasquatches

326
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a handful of times and I don't see any problem

327
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with it.

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Speaker 3: That's well, well, that's why when I always remember that

329
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,200
when I was logging in it, before I knew what

330
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was going on, I thought it was pot growers out

331
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there screaming with us, even though it was like snow

332
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on the ground, like late November, four thousand feet on

333
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,879
the north slope, like when we got those whistles and knocks,

334
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like the lunch is getting stolen out of the crumey Like,

335
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,240
I just thought, like, well, you're only gonna have one encounterever,

336
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,000
You're not gonna hear like, You're not gonna hear them

337
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,879
like a bunch of times. Like so I thought, like,

338
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it can't it can't be a big footcause you're only

339
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gonna you're only gonna have one encounter your whole life

340
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if you're if you're really, really really lucky.

341
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Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to be. So, it doesn't have

342
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to be so at all. And and and of course

343
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John Green does explain it. He says he was out

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there or he lived in a place where he could

345
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be in good habitat in minutes, and he was out

346
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there all the time. So there are explanations for this

347
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sort of stuff. It's just that I'm not sure how

348
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much those early guys were out doing stuff. I mean

349
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what really, no one knows. Really. I know that they

350
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followed up on a lot of reports, and they talked

351
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to a lot of witnesses, and they did a lot

352
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of good pioneering work. But that's really really different from

353
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living and working in the woods and spending as much

354
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time out there as you possibly can, trying to find

355
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:18,320
these things. You know, that's just a different way about

356
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:20,639
going about doing so. And sure they would take trips,

357
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they would go a week or two at a time.

358
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From what I understand, I don't have a lot of

359
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information about their trips, because no one really does. They

360
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,399
didn't write a lot of this stuff down. But from

361
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what I understand from people who knew these people firsthand,

362
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and maybe if I went to the woods, they'd go

363
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for a week at a time or two weeks at

364
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a time, you know. I know, Bob Titmas spent like

365
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a month or a month or more at a time

366
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than a Bluff Creek, usually in October every single year,

367
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and that's a good run. But that's still not working

368
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in the woods. This guy was a logger. He was

369
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out there all the time a daily, I think, for

370
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ebly for months at a time. So it's usually driving

371
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in and then when it starts usually true, Yeah, absolutely true.

372
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Speaker 1: So what's interesting rereading this is he he doesn't name

373
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,600
Glenn Thomas in this work. He keeps him anonymous. But

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before we get to the next section, because I was

375
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kind of curious about this, and then I figured, well

376
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if Iowa was too.

377
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Speaker 2: When I first.

378
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: Encountered it, maybe the audience would be so bobo, do

379
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,440
you want to tell people what a cat skinner is?

380
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Speaker 2: Oh?

381
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,039
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it drives like a caterpillar bulldozer and they

382
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punched in the roads, logging roads.

383
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Speaker 1: I figured, with your professional experience, you'd be the best

384
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person to tell the audience, because I remember when I

385
00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:30,080
first heard this story, read this story, I had to

386
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,440
search what that was. So for people who don't know it,

387
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but Green gets into quote. Here is how he told

388
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:38,960
the story of his first encounter in the mountains west

389
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,639
of the Klacamus Valley, southeast of Estakata, which again is Oregon.

390
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,759
So Glenn Thomas's narrative is quote, I was supposed to

391
00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:49,360
be watching a cat skinner as he was fire trailing,

392
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,480
but it was awful cold, and I walked a miler

393
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,639
so down that trail because he had no need of

394
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:56,080
anyone at that time, and I thought I'd warm up

395
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,519
and see the country up where he was. It was

396
00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:01,360
a cold east wind blowing a little farther down, it

397
00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:03,840
was a west wind coming in. It was late fall,

398
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,759
the last weekend in deer season. I think in nineteen

399
00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:09,680
sixty seven, there was just a mountain trail. They have

400
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,960
several of them up there footpaths and for horses. The

401
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,240
elevation was about between four and five thousand feet. I

402
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:19,400
came out lower down into the fog before I saw anything,

403
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,599
and the fog was freezing on the trees because it

404
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,759
was so cold. But if the wind would blow, the

405
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:26,279
fog would break and fall off. That made it kind

406
00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:29,319
of noisy and sounded like walking. I came around a

407
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,640
bend well. First I noticed some rocks that were turned over.

408
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,200
All the other rocks were wet because of the fog,

409
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,000
but these rocks were dry. Then I looked up about

410
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,960
forty or fifty feet up on a ridge of rock,

411
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,200
and I saw these animals there looked like human or

412
00:17:43,319 --> 00:17:46,880
just about large male, the female wasn't so large, and

413
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,039
a small baby, while not really small, It was moving

414
00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:53,599
with them. It was standing up mostly. The two older

415
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,960
ones were squatting down and sort of bending as they

416
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,880
picked up rocks and smelled them. They were kind of careful.

417
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,440
They moved on for a few minutes, and then finally

418
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,720
the mail found possibly what he was looking for and

419
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:07,240
dug real fast down into the rocks, which were large boulders,

420
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:10,680
not the round type of rock, but the flat sharp kind.

421
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,759
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean this is an interesting thing because

422
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:20,079
today there is no real clear road or trail there.

423
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:23,119
There just isn't there. And so as I'm listening to this,

424
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,279
I'm picturing the site and what it looks like. And

425
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,640
I know where exactly where the Glenn Thomas site is,

426
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:30,720
and if it is on a slope, and it does

427
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,559
go uphill more so I'm kind of curious. Okay, well,

428
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:36,000
where was this road up higher that the guy was

429
00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:38,119
digging around it? And actually I've never walked past the

430
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,640
Glen Thomas site or too much past it, maybe fifty

431
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:42,640
hundred yards or something, but it sounds like I need

432
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,680
to go a few hundred yards or more up there.

433
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:46,920
They'll see what kind of roads might be up there,

434
00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:50,599
what's her remnants of these trails there would be, because.

435
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,559
Speaker 1: It sounds like he came off the road and onto

436
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:55,599
quote just a mountain trail, several of them up there

437
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,839
that are footpaths and or essentially for horses.

438
00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't note that he came down from where

439
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,319
he was supposed to be like watching the cat skinner,

440
00:19:04,599 --> 00:19:06,599
And so that would imply that further up the hill

441
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:09,000
there was some roadwork being done or something.

442
00:19:09,799 --> 00:19:12,279
Speaker 3: It's interesting that they were feeding within a mile of

443
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:14,000
like an active logging zone like that.

444
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true too, But of course we haven't got

445
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,519
to the feeding part yet either. But but yeah, that's

446
00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:23,279
what they were doing there when he saw them. Stay

447
00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:26,400
tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo

448
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:28,359
will be right back after these messages.

449
00:19:35,279 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 1: He says, quote, I could not explain why those rocks

450
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,680
were there. There hadn't been a slide or anything. They

451
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,440
were on top of the ridge, so they couldn't have

452
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,240
come down from anywhere. They are loose, quite a few

453
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,599
holes underneath them, and they are as if they had

454
00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:50,799
been broken up. Definitely not the round river type rock.

455
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,559
But they would pick them up, and after they smelled them,

456
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,519
they would lay them down on top of each other.

457
00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:58,200
They didn't just lay them back where they'd picked them up.

458
00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:00,920
They stacked them up in piles. And when the male

459
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,279
had found what he was looking for, he really made

460
00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:06,640
the rocks fly. The big rocks weighed fifty sixty or

461
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,440
even possibly one hundred pounds. He just jerked them out

462
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,119
with his hand. He didn't seem to take any precautions

463
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:12,880
for his safety.

464
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 2: Later on.

465
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:15,839
Speaker 1: I looked, and there was some rock there that could

466
00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:18,680
have fallen on him, but he wasn't concerned. He brought

467
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,599
out what appeared to be a grass nest, possibly some

468
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,759
stored hay that small rodents had stored there. He dug

469
00:20:24,799 --> 00:20:27,400
through that and brought out the rodents. It seems they

470
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:30,200
ate them. The rodents appeared to be in hibernation or

471
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,559
asleep or something. There were about six or eight rodents.

472
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,119
The small animal I noticed only got one, but the

473
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:36,720
others got.

474
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:39,559
Speaker 2: Two or three apiece. Yeah, and there's been some talk

475
00:20:39,559 --> 00:20:42,160
about what kind of rodens these are. People said they

476
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,920
were hybridating ground squirrels, and they could have been, of course,

477
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,359
having been to the Glen Thomas site, maybe half a

478
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,720
dozen or ten to twelve times maybe I'm not sure,

479
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,720
probably at least a dozen times sake, now that I'm

480
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:55,680
thinking about it. The rodents I have seen there the

481
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,799
most are pikas. Those are the critters that I have

482
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,759
seen there to assume that's probably what they were feeding upon.

483
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,440
But other people have said that they were ground scrolls

484
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,240
of some sort. Some people have other given other specific species,

485
00:21:09,279 --> 00:21:11,519
you know, like gold mantle ground scrolls or something like that.

486
00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,319
But the only roadent side is seen. There are pikahs

487
00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:18,720
so and they are nesting in this taless slope. A

488
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,279
tailess slope is this rocky sort of slope, and if

489
00:21:21,319 --> 00:21:24,480
the rocks are big enough, it's called a tailess slope.

490
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:27,119
If there are small little rocks, like maybe fist size

491
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,480
or so, then that's called a scree slope. But a

492
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:34,160
tailess slope is what this is. It's basically exposed bedrock

493
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,359
at the top of a ridge. Is where this location

494
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,759
or what's going on at this location.

495
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,519
Speaker 1: So the next part is interesting. I'm not sure exactly

496
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:44,119
what he means by this, but he says about that

497
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,039
time they became aware of my presence and well just

498
00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:50,359
became alert. I was alongside of this trail that follows

499
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,160
the ridge. I didn't remember getting there, but I was

500
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,640
squatted down behind a small tree when I became aware

501
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,440
where I was. As soon as they realized I was there,

502
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,519
they suddenly began to move real quiet behind some low

503
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:02,640
hanging limbs on the tree.

504
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 2: There.

505
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: I didn't see them again after that, So I wonder

506
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,880
if he just means he was sort of like transfixed

507
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,759
and had gotten off the trail and come alongside the trail,

508
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:13,440
but I wasn't quite sure what he meant by it.

509
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,160
What do you think that he just got kind of

510
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,599
transfixed and was moving towards it and squatted down, and

511
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,559
then once they became aware of him, he realized like, oh,

512
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,440
I'm not standing on the trail anymore. I'm kind of

513
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,400
off the trail and hidden.

514
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,079
Speaker 2: I think that he was walking down and he noticed them,

515
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,279
and the next thing he knew that he was squatting

516
00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:30,880
down to get a better vantage point without disturbing them.

517
00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:33,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just so consciously like went into that mud,

518
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,839
like you know, like you don't want to startle around,

519
00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:38,240
you don't want to give yourself up, so like you

520
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:39,920
just went in like, yeah, I'm sure he was a

521
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,119
deer hunter or elk.

522
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: I'd imagine. Yeah, that's what I think. Bobo's right on

523
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,440
that one. Yeah, you just squatted down to get a

524
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,720
better observation of these critters and you know that. And

525
00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:52,039
I'm thinking he said about fifty feet or something like that.

526
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:54,279
I could see how you would say that was fifty feet.

527
00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:55,799
I would put it a little bit further than that.

528
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,559
What do you think, Bobo, you've been there? Oh yeah, no,

529
00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:59,799
I mean it's it's close.

530
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,839
Speaker 3: It's I mean, I will say that was that was

531
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,480
one of those places that was one of the like

532
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,200
the holy sites, you know, a big footing was like

533
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,160
Bluff Creek, the Potterson site, then there's the Glenn Thomas

534
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,240
and then a canyon and then the Peng Boucha for

535
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:19,279
the Peng Boucher temple up there in the Pollock there

536
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,920
was like those are like the holy sites for me.

537
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: And Boggy Creek. Yeah, the Glenn Thomas site is a

538
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,000
really neat place to go. I used to bring when

539
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,960
I when I ran public expeditions for those couple of years.

540
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,000
That's something I would do one day as I'd take

541
00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:35,200
anybody up there who wanted to go see it, because obviously,

542
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,160
if you're running an expedition, you can't promise the Bigfoot

543
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,200
is going to show up. But I could promise that

544
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,759
you can go see something that was reportedly done by

545
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:44,880
a Sasquatch. And I thought that was kind of a

546
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,680
neat thing. And it's not this the site isn't very

547
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,880
well known. Really. Joe Beelart actually is the guy who

548
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,599
wrote some notes down and I don't know, I think

549
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,920
he I think he's the guy that kind of rediscovered

550
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,680
it somehow, and I don't remember how he even did it.

551
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,440
I got to ask Joe that next time I see him,

552
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:02,920
found out where it was from him, and then started

553
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,440
going up there. And it's today. It's not exactly easy

554
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,359
to get to. It's a long run and then you

555
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,839
got to park, and then you got to walk another

556
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,720
quarter mile or so with maybe a third of a

557
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:14,160
mile in, which isn't very far. But if you don't

558
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,400
know where you're going and what to look for, you'd

559
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,680
probably just walk right through it. It's like the Patterson

560
00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:20,400
site back in the day before they started, you know,

561
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,839
marking and building platforms and doing all that stuff there.

562
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,720
If he didn't know where it was, you would walk

563
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:26,680
right through it. And it's the same thing here with

564
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,799
the Glenn Thomas site.

565
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: Well, I know there's photographs of Hinter there and John,

566
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,400
Ben and Nigel. There are there photographs of John Green there.

567
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: I can't remember there's pictures of his son there.

568
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. I definitely can picture

569
00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:43,319
the pictures of Hinter in my mind, and Ben and Nigel,

570
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,359
and of course I'll post all those to the member

571
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,640
section because it was in on the track of the sasquatch.

572
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 3: Originally before I got in the compilation got there's a

573
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,400
picture of Jim Green in that he's five foot ten's

574
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,599
in one of the holes, you know, six feet deep.

575
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,839
Speaker 1: I will take a picture of that page and I'll

576
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,079
put that for pigeons too, because yeah, it seems like

577
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,839
a fairly briefish observation. He continues to say, quote. I

578
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,880
tried to follow their tracks in the direction I thought

579
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,680
they would have to go, but I couldn't find any,

580
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:14,119
although there was a heavy frost there. But the next

581
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,400
day I found two tracks, a heel print and the

582
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,839
front part of the foot the toes. But they were

583
00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:21,759
in a different direction the direction from which I had come,

584
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,799
And I never did get to connect them up with

585
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,119
exactly which direction they had gone, or know anything about them.

586
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:31,039
The footprints, I would say were about twelve to fifteen inches,

587
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:33,519
but there wasn't enough of the track to tell exactly.

588
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,559
They were possibly five inches wide, I don't know at

589
00:25:36,559 --> 00:25:39,319
the widest part. I don't think they could have been six.

590
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,200
I didn't know if it was one of the animals

591
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,680
I had seen that made the footprints. You know what's

592
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,519
funny is I just turned the page to finish that.

593
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:48,160
And there's the picture of Jim Green in the pit

594
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,599
in apes among us.

595
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:52,559
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, yeah, of course I have pictures of

596
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,720
Bobo and I in the pits. I think melt was

597
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Meltrom with us Bobo. Is that a separate trip? Bart? Oh, Bart,

598
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:00,920
that's right, that's right. I'll dig those out so we

599
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,839
can post them as well.

600
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the I can't remember which time I went there,

601
00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:07,880
but one of the times I was there, I know

602
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,880
you were there, Cliff, I think it was.

603
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: I think it was on the expedition.

604
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 3: Was hearing those car doors slams sounds out there?

605
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was something about that down there, wasn't wasn't there.

606
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:17,599
I forgot about that.

607
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we heard those car doors slamming and there's

608
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:22,160
like no one that there was no one around.

609
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: Interesting. Interesting another another I forgot about that. Yeah, you know,

610
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,559
the site is interesting because when you're there, like I

611
00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:31,960
don't know, we haven't gotten to the part of the

612
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,319
story where there with about the big pit right where

613
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,119
that's the one that everybody wants to stand in, you know.

614
00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:38,839
It's like going to a spot it's like, well you

615
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,599
got to you gotta stand in there. It's the big pit.

616
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,039
That's the one with Bender and Augel and everybody. All

617
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,000
the pictures you've seen that somebody is always standing in

618
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,279
the big pit. I think I have a picture of

619
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:49,440
Brenda Hindon inside of it as well in the archives.

620
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,880
Actually I'll try to dig that up. But the pit

621
00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:54,599
today is kind of a big rock slid into it

622
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,880
a few years ago, you know, because there's a there's

623
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,160
like tectonic stuff going on there Becau because there's a

624
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,119
lot of volcanism in the Cascades. It's a volcanic range,

625
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,079
and so there's some rumbling in the ground and things

626
00:27:06,079 --> 00:27:07,880
move around a bit, especially with the weather and the

627
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,680
ice and the snow and everything that accumulates there. But

628
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,759
that's not the only pit. That may be the big

629
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:16,880
one where they're digging something out and stacking the rocks whatever.

630
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:20,039
But there's probably I don't know, six or eight or

631
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:22,880
ten or more stacks or rocks along the top of

632
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,200
that spine. And if you look around, there's more than

633
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,880
a dozen of these little shallow pits in along this

634
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,920
tyless slope, which is an interesting fact. They're because people

635
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,720
who say this encounter did not happen, say that these

636
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:39,039
are like you know, like vision quest pits from the

637
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,839
local native people, for example, people were known to do that.

638
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,640
I guess they would dig these like pits and like

639
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,920
lay in them and undergo some like ordeal, like some

640
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,599
sort of shamonic sort of ordeal in them, you know.

641
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:54,319
But they wouldn't make ten or twelve of these pits

642
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,599
by any means, and they certainly would make them that deep,

643
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,200
I don't think either. So that jibes really nicely with

644
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:02,599
the way that the story was told, because the animals

645
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,480
were moving and trying this spot, then moving a little

646
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:08,720
further and trying another spot, than trying another spot until

647
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,400
they hit pay dirt, eating rats.

648
00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:14,599
Speaker 1: So he describes a little bit more of exactly where

649
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,720
he was, but then gets into some detailed physical descriptions

650
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,279
which are really interesting. But he said, quote, when I

651
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,519
left the cat Skinner, he was on Low Creek, but

652
00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:25,200
I had walked to Jim's Meadows, possibly a mile or more.

653
00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,960
I saw the footprints between where the cat Skinner was

654
00:28:28,039 --> 00:28:30,440
and where I had seen the other animals. The only

655
00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:33,440
time I saw their faces was when they became alert.

656
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,759
They gave me the impression of having a face a

657
00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:38,559
little like a cat without the ears. It seemed like

658
00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:40,799
the nose was much flatter, it didn't stick out like

659
00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:43,640
a human's. The upper lip was very short and seemed

660
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,799
to be thin. I couldn't remember that it had a

661
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,559
chin like a human has, so somehow or other, I

662
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:51,079
felt that its face was more like a cat than

663
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:54,039
a human, which is interesting because I remember hearing a

664
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,720
couple of people and I couldn't really reconcile it. But

665
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,640
I guess hearing this description again maybe so. But I

666
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,720
remember one guy in North Georgia that had a siding

667
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:04,200
and I was asking for details about the face. It

668
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,319
was a daylight siding, and he said it had lionine features.

669
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:10,720
I was like, you mean, like a like a big cat,

670
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:12,240
like a lion, and he was like, yeah, kind of

671
00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,119
like that. And I was like, what, you know, he

672
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,599
was describing a general layout and like the relationship between

673
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:21,440
the eyes, the nose, et cetera. And he's like, you know,

674
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:23,599
their mouths not like a big cat mouth. It's you know,

675
00:29:23,599 --> 00:29:26,559
a different shape, but just generally like the overall shape

676
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,960
of the face. And I always thought that was kind

677
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,160
of odd. So it's interesting to revisit this in Glenn

678
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,960
Thomas's and go, oh, Okay, I guess I can kind

679
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,200
of see what he's what he's getting at there.

680
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: HM, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Clipp

681
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:50,319
and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Now,

682
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:53,400
a low Creek, I'm not familiar where that is, but

683
00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:55,680
jim Meadow does come up on a search, and I'm

684
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,200
trying to find out how close that is to Burnt

685
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,799
Granite Ridge. Glen Thomas site is on Burnt Granite Ridge.

686
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: Another interesting thing, whether there's like a mile away or so,

687
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,759
is Tarzan Springs.

688
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost directly underneath the Glen Thomas site is a

689
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,000
place called Tarzan Springs, as you mentioned, Bobo, And do

690
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,359
you remember the origin of that name, Bobo.

691
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:18,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were doing the census and they were coming

692
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:22,640
through like in nineteen twenty or nineteen thirty. It was

693
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,200
in the twenties that the guy lived there. But there

694
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,759
was an old minutor by himself and he was like

695
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:30,240
a hermit guy, and he said there was these things

696
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,960
holl are just like Tarzan and in the movies you

697
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,599
know that AH or radio back then whatever it was. Yeah,

698
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,759
So he said there was apes up there, There was

699
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:40,559
you know these.

700
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: Harry eight men that were running around wild up there. Yeah.

701
00:30:44,319 --> 00:30:46,480
The version I got from Joe B. Lard, who tracked

702
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,480
this down, is that Joe called the I guess a

703
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:50,799
cartography office or something like that. At some point when

704
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:53,200
he was writing his excellent book, The Big V Highway

705
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,079
Book down there, and he spoke to somebody who's told him.

706
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:59,119
They didn't give him documentation, but they told him that

707
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:01,240
the census says you were saying at the time, they

708
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,240
when they were going through there, they found a hermit

709
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:07,839
living there and he was living with the apes, is

710
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,680
what he was told. Now. Of course, at this particular time,

711
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:14,720
Tarzan of the Apes was the big all the rage.

712
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:16,680
You know, the book had just come out recently and

713
00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:18,839
everybody who had been reading it, he was like Star

714
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,880
Wars or something. But you know, back when people read

715
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,480
so Tarzan of the Apes was all the rage. Everybody

716
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:25,400
was reading it, everybody was stoked about it. It was

717
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,799
the book to read. And so when they found out

718
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:30,559
about this guy living with the apes at this spring,

719
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,160
they named the place Tarzan Springs.

720
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:36,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go northeast of jim Meadow, there is

721
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:38,279
a low creek, but the low has an e on

722
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,640
the end of it, like a family name right right.

723
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,279
Speaker 2: I just found that Jim Meadows is south of the

724
00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:47,720
General Glenn Thomas site by maybe a mile or something

725
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:49,559
like that at the most, and then over to the

726
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:53,559
east of it is Low Creek Lwe not low as

727
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,839
it's spelled in the book. But then again, Clackamus is

728
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:58,839
spelled differently sometimes in John Green's book too, so as

729
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:00,960
opposed to the accepted spe of today.

730
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:04,119
Speaker 1: This part I think is really interesting where he's describing

731
00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:07,440
physically what he saw. But he said, quote, the male

732
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:10,200
was darker than the female, a dirty brown, where the

733
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,680
female was a buckskin or fawn colored animal. The male

734
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,279
had much longer hair on his shoulders, head, and neck

735
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,240
and hung in strings like you see on an angora goat.

736
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,079
He was much heavier in the shoulders than the female.

737
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,920
From just above the hips, the male got larger. He

738
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,759
had a very wide small of the back. From there

739
00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:30,079
on up he just got bigger and bigger. They had

740
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,440
very rounded or stooped shoulders. The head was set lower

741
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,759
on the shoulders than a humans. They don't seem to

742
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:37,519
have the next stand up as we do.

743
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:43,079
Speaker 2: All that jives obviously, Yeah, yeah, heavy heavy muscles up

744
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:45,880
in the shoulders, you know, that all makes sense.

745
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,119
Speaker 1: Quote, most of the time they were not standing but

746
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,920
were squatting down and leaning forward to pick up the rocks.

747
00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:54,359
This one that was digging just seemed to go right

748
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,160
on down. I don't remember seeing him get up, but

749
00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:59,480
as he was down here, he was just digging and

750
00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:02,559
kept going on down. And well, at that time, I

751
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,279
couldn't see exactly where he was because I was down

752
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,240
and they were up a little bit on the side

753
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,720
of this rock which kind of levels off some, and

754
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:12,279
he went down, and so I couldn't see exactly what

755
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,480
he was doing in there, but I did see when

756
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,799
he came out. At that time, I was a little

757
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:20,160
bit nervous. I'm not sure now about half of it

758
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,359
seemed like a bad dream.

759
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: For a while.

760
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe what was happening. It just couldn't be.

761
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: But it is.

762
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,799
Speaker 1: And that's obviously a common thing that we've talked about.

763
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:33,119
That's sort of like dissociation, disorientation, confusion, the kind of

764
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,079
cognitive shock that people have when they're trying to suss

765
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:41,160
out what it is that they're looking at in these encounters. Yeah,

766
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,039
in a lot of these cases, the investigators of your

767
00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:47,920
tended to remove a lot of the phenomenological elements of

768
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,319
these reports. They would just stick to the observation, which

769
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,279
is fine, you know, you want to know what was seen,

770
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:55,039
you know, just the facts, just the details, leave out

771
00:33:55,079 --> 00:33:58,960
the sort of internal experience. But this is obviously a

772
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:03,720
verbatim translation, you know, a verbatim transcription of the interview

773
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,039
with Glenn Thomas, which I will have links. The audio

774
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:08,920
interviews are available online thanks to Todd Prescott, so I

775
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,440
have that link in the show notes. There's a Sasquatch

776
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,119
Chronicles link that has all the multi parts of the interview,

777
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:15,880
so I'll just link to that so you can get.

778
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: To Todd via Wes via us.

779
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: But anyway, I'm kind of glad that Green left that

780
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:23,119
line in there because it does give you a little

781
00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:25,280
bit of insight into what the experience was like for him,

782
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,599
Like he was transfixed. He's kind of confused about, like

783
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:29,880
how did I even get here off the trail, squatted

784
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,880
down behind the stump. He's talking about how nervous he was.

785
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,239
And then for a while I was like, was that

786
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,480
a bad dream? I couldn't believe what was happening, the

787
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,639
impossibility of it, et cetera. But then with the rest

788
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,000
of the verbatim portion. Green asks him, you know, did

789
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,199
you notice the hands at all, and Glynn said quote,

790
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:50,119
I noticed that it had hands. I did not notice

791
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,239
if it had thumbs. I couldn't tell from the way

792
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,159
it worked. It didn't seem to use the thumb, which

793
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,400
I thought was pretty interesting.

794
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of falls in line with the thumb

795
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:02,159
being potentially parallel to the rest of the other fingers,

796
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,960
especially when they're picking up rocks and whatever else, because

797
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:07,039
you would expect the thumb to be angled off to

798
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,280
the side pretty strongly, like in a human or something

799
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,159
like that. But that's not necessarily the case with the Sasquatch,

800
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,519
although I do think that their hands can some recent

801
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:18,920
handprints I've gotten some casts I've obtained in the last

802
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:24,280
six months strongly suggesting that the sasquatch thumb is hyper mobile.

803
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,519
I'd like more evidence of this, of course, but it

804
00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:29,440
seems to be very, very mobile and be able to

805
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,360
twist around into some interesting positions that are very unhuman like.

806
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,639
Speaker 1: And to conclude the verbatim portion, Glenn Thomas had said, quote,

807
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,679
I didn't see any knees projecting when it squatted. They

808
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:42,840
were in an awkward position because of the rocks, and

809
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,480
they couldn't just squat down like we would on a floor.

810
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,440
They would be on different levels and off too far

811
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:51,000
to be comfortable. That's about as close as I could

812
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,639
explain it. When they went from place to place, they

813
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:57,360
would shift in position according to the terrain the mail well. Actually,

814
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,960
both of them seemed to be moving in a certain direction,

815
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,840
possibly from tracing the small rodents. I thought possibly it

816
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,880
was the scent left by the rodents coming up through

817
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,960
the rocks, because it was not a runway that they

818
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,400
could have been picking. Because they were just picking the

819
00:36:10,519 --> 00:36:12,960
rocks up any place, and as they picked it up,

820
00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:15,360
they'd turn it over, smell it, and then lay it

821
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,719
on the stack. They left it very definitely in a pile.

822
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:21,840
They would leave anywhere from three to fifteen or twenty

823
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,639
in one pile as they would reach back, and then

824
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,840
oh six or eight feet farther they would leave another pile.

825
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 2: It's interesting that they're using their sense of smell so much,

826
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,239
because that's not really the dominant sense for most primates,

827
00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:35,679
for primates in general. Actually, I mean, of course, they

828
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,400
I use my smell all the time, don't get me wrong.

829
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,639
And they would certainly use their sense of smell more

830
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,159
so than most domesticated primates humans in other words, But

831
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,840
I think that's an interesting aspect to the story there,

832
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,679
that they're smelling it before putting it down. And what

833
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:55,400
were they smelling for. Probably the presence of like urine, honestly,

834
00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:58,199
like you know, rodent urine or something like that, or

835
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:59,679
to the nesting or something like that.

836
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, you would think that you'd have to rely

837
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,159
on scent to some degree for those supplemental things that

838
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,039
you couldn't just easily see or hear. I guess you

839
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,039
couldn't really hear them if they were stationary in there

840
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:12,599
and their little dens or mittens or whatever they would

841
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:13,840
be called nests, you know.

842
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, So he goes on.

843
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a segue before he describes

844
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,559
Thomas's other sidings, but Green says, quote, in other conversations

845
00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:25,559
I had with him, he mentioned that the small creature

846
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:27,920
seemed to be afraid of the male and always kept

847
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,000
on the other side of his mother, away from it.

848
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,159
He described their method of eating the rodents as being

849
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:35,760
the same as a person eating a banana, except without

850
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,880
peeling them. Neither of the big ones helped the small one.

851
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,920
It had to find one in the hay for itself.

852
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,760
Renee and I obviously reneede to Hindon and I arranged

853
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,480
to have him show us the place where this was

854
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:48,920
supposed to have happened, and we did not allow him

855
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000
any time to get anything ready for us. Sure enough,

856
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,000
the piles of rocks and the deep hole were there,

857
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,960
and the hole went down about five feet and was

858
00:37:57,079 --> 00:37:59,920
as steep sided as a well and just about straight down.

859
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,000
I won't say a man could not have made it,

860
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:04,559
because men can do surprising things, but I don't think

861
00:38:04,559 --> 00:38:05,400
it would have been easy.

862
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 2: Well, in that picture that is in the book where

863
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:11,880
John's son is in the hole, those are the two men.

864
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,920
That is Renee to Hinden on the left, and that

865
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:17,159
is Glenn Thomas in the middle. And Glenn Thomas can

866
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:20,199
be seen in a documentary as well. I think he's

867
00:38:20,599 --> 00:38:22,440
I think he was in that one that the BBC made,

868
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,679
if I remember right, and he's the guy wearing the

869
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,159
hard hat at the logging site, but he's never identified

870
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,440
as Glenn Thomas. Really, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's

871
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,360
Glenn Thomas. Huh.

872
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: I think he's in two two document old do I

873
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,559
think he's in two of those old documentaries.

874
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 2: I think Soaks In that one. I believe he's wearing

875
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,800
a hard hat if I remember right. It's been a

876
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,719
couple of years since I've seen it, but in that

877
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,559
picture there in the middle, he has that kind of

878
00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:49,400
floppy looking hat with the brim that pushed up. I

879
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,119
think I've seen him wearing that at some point as well.

880
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:53,920
I just don't know where I saw it. I wish

881
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:54,920
I did, but I just don't know.

882
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,599
Speaker 3: Do you know is reading reading it from the original

883
00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:02,679
book on the track of the Sasquatch. I'm listening to

884
00:39:02,679 --> 00:39:04,920
you guys read and like this that you got. There's

885
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,079
way more information in your your copy.

886
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,199
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, because see I'm reading from Sasquatch the apes

887
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,360
among us. So this must be like the more verbati

888
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,719
interviews than just some like truncated edited version totally.

889
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,559
Speaker 2: But it's well, it's just about that about the feeding

890
00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:22,360
and the baby being. That's that.

891
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:24,519
Speaker 3: I always thought this was like such a great insight

892
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:28,079
into like Bigfoot family structure and you know, like the

893
00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:31,320
role of of you know, the parents and the offspring,

894
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,679
and how I've talked to a.

895
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: Couple other people that have that have this three people.

896
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 3: In the last forty almost years that have seen family

897
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,760
groups interact, and they all said that the little one

898
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,840
kept like would keep the mother between it and the

899
00:39:50,039 --> 00:39:52,280
and the big adult male. And I don't know if

900
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,039
that's maybe like a lion thing, like if lion's like,

901
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:57,920
you know, maybe want to kill a young one, if

902
00:39:58,039 --> 00:40:00,760
if it's not theirs, or you know, is it just

903
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,599
because like you know, I don't know, does that mean

904
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,000
that wasn't the father? Do they know like that or

905
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:08,639
it's just it's interesting.

906
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: Kathy Strain brought that up one time during a presentation

907
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,800
when she was talking about the Harryman pictographs. And the

908
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,559
Harryman pictographs, a large male is on the right hand

909
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,400
side and the female is off a distance to the left,

910
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:22,320
and on the other side of the female is the

911
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,199
juvenile sasquatch, the juvenile hairy man, And she brought that

912
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,760
up as well, that the juvenile is a long ways

913
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,760
away from the male, and she drew a parallel between

914
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,760
this and that and the Glenn Thomas site or the sighting.

915
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,039
I should say, so an interesting correlation there, because you know,

916
00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:42,480
in my research areas I find the female and a

917
00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:46,239
juvenile footprints often associated in the same general area, but

918
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,800
almost never find the big male. So maybe it's just

919
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,039
a function of the way they roll, you know, like

920
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,519
mom and kid are going to be hanging together no

921
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:56,039
matter if the big guys around or not.

922
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,679
Speaker 1: I think that jibs with a few other reports. There

923
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,880
was a really interesting one that a guest that Wes

924
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,119
had on a while back that was first like a

925
00:41:03,159 --> 00:41:05,800
member's only episode, but then he released it for the mainstream,

926
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,960
and I'll link to that in the show notes. But

927
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,239
it was a very interesting story and the cynical part

928
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,960
of me, like when I first heard it, I thought, oh,

929
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,119
this is someone like reiterating the Glenn Thomas siding in

930
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:18,559
a modern context. But then there were other elements of

931
00:41:18,599 --> 00:41:20,480
the story that you know, I won't try to like

932
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,199
explain here, but I just thought, Okay, there might be

933
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,480
actually something to this. But there are shade that is

934
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:29,079
reminiscent that like, well, if that guy's telling the truth,

935
00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:32,079
he's witnessing some of the same behaviors. But it's definitely

936
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,679
worth a listen. Let the listeners make up their own minds,

937
00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:36,960
but I will link that in the show notes as well.

938
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: Having Canada, you're talking about absolutely was that was such

939
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,639
a good one.

940
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

941
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,719
Will be right back after these messages.

942
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 3: You know what's funny, I was talking about the pictograph

943
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,880
on the mew while tribe is my good friend down

944
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:07,119
this original woman down in Australia was out walking about way.

945
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:08,119
Speaker 2: It was his way.

946
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,519
Speaker 3: It was going way way out where there no one lives,

947
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:15,360
and he found some old cave paintings and there's one

948
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,920
that's very similar to that with the male female and

949
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:19,599
the young one.

950
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: Some of you guys, we'd love to see that.

951
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,559
Speaker 3: I'm sure pigeons would have loved to see those two.

952
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:27,480
Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's really interesting. I said

953
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:30,280
to County Strange. She she wasn't super excited. I thought

954
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,199
she'd be all stoked, like well that's rabbit. She was

955
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,840
just kind of like, that's cool, she said, it's interesting.

956
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: Well, like we'd mentioned, you know, that siding is pretty

957
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,840
famous the observation of moving the rocks and eating the

958
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,320
ground rodents. But like we mentioned, it wasn't the only

959
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,440
one that he reported. And like Green said, you know,

960
00:42:46,519 --> 00:42:48,719
he said, four of the most credible reports I've taken

961
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,400
were all from the same person. And you know, I

962
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,000
like the way the Green frame it, like if he's

963
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,519
not telling the truth, I don't know that I've met

964
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,280
anyone who is. So he does sort of like in

965
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,039
a truncated way, describe the other siding, So Green says quote.

966
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:03,400
The other sidings were all in the same general area.

967
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,840
In the spring of nineteen sixty eight, he was looking

968
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,800
for a place to take some siding in shots with

969
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,960
a gun when he noticed, at a distance of about

970
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,360
one hundred feet in animal eating leaves off a willow bush.

971
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,320
He climbed up on the bank by the road to

972
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,800
get a better look. The creature was a female, with

973
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,320
breasts like a woman's, but in a lower position on

974
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,039
the chest. He estimated it to be only five or

975
00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:25,719
six feet high, but it was very heavily built and

976
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,840
covered with short, dark brown hair. As he watched it

977
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,280
strip the leaves and shove them in its mouth, he

978
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,119
had the impression that its thumbs were not used. They

979
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:35,880
seemed to be farther back on the hand than a

980
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,920
human thumb. He watched it only a few seconds before

981
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,480
it noticed him and ran off into the trees. Although

982
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:43,760
not many miles from the location, of the first sighting,

983
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,360
it was at a much lower elevation.

984
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, once again, I love the thumb observations. Those were

985
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,000
just so powerful in so many ways because they reinforce

986
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,440
what has been seen and the foot in the handprint cast,

987
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,199
you know, and I just love observations that sort of thing.

988
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:03,559
And in nineteen sixty seven there were a grand total

989
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:08,559
of zero handprint casts in the world. Zero. The first

990
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:11,559
one was obtained at the Bossburg site by Ivan Marx

991
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:16,239
the verse two. Actually, so there was a sketch of

992
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,000
one or where's that? That was sixty eight I think?

993
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,079
Actually when was the Fort Bragg one? Oh, that was

994
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:25,679
sixty That was even earlier, so there was sixty three.

995
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,800
I think it was so that there was a sketch

996
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,239
of one, but he had no way of knowing what

997
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,519
the thumb was like at that point. So these observations

998
00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:36,559
by Glenn Thomas, I guess predict future finds in a way,

999
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:38,760
which is always a compelling aspect to any sort of

1000
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,679
observation or find or footprint or anything like that. If

1001
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:45,199
it can predict future data, well that that's a pretty

1002
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:46,119
strong evidence there.

1003
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: So that would have been his second siding. And so

1004
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,760
regarding the third siding green says quote. For the next

1005
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,840
half year he hunted without success, but in November he

1006
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,880
hit the jackpot. Crossing a ridge at about thirty five

1007
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,719
hundred feet, he found two sets of tracks, both about

1008
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,519
sixteen inches long, and followed them for several miles in

1009
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:07,519
the snow, going down a logging road. They were not

1010
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:09,679
always on the road, but kept coming back to it.

1011
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,920
Eventually they reached a level where the snow was petering out,

1012
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,239
and he lost them in the woods. The next day

1013
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,400
he went back to where he had left off. While

1014
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,119
casting about from more tracks, he saw something dark on

1015
00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:23,639
the snow across a small open area. Using binoculars, at

1016
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:26,119
a distance of less than two hundred yards, he found

1017
00:45:26,159 --> 00:45:29,039
himself looking at two sasquatches sleeping out in the open,

1018
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,480
with their backs to the sky and their knees and

1019
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:34,639
elbows drawn in under their bodies. He settled in for

1020
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:36,800
a long vigil, and they slept for about an hour

1021
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,360
with very little movement. Then one got up and.

1022
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 2: Then the other.

1023
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,159
Speaker 1: They went to a creek a few feet away and

1024
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:46,199
began pulling up and eating water plants. Both were obviously females,

1025
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,159
with more pendulous breasts than the one he had seen before,

1026
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,840
and one appeared to have a swelling in the genital

1027
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,239
area and kept rubbing itself. It also gave an occasional

1028
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,079
loud call, which he described in a computer interview as

1029
00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:01,639
quote like a scream in an echo chamber end quote.

1030
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:04,840
He also saw one defecated in the creek. It stepped

1031
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,760
up on a wide, low stump that was in the water, quote,

1032
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,079
bent forward about forty five degrees with its knees slightly bent,

1033
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:14,119
and let fly. Then it wiped itself with one hand

1034
00:46:14,199 --> 00:46:15,440
and licked the hand briefly.

1035
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:21,119
Speaker 4: That's like money maker and the pall, not the licking part.

1036
00:46:21,159 --> 00:46:26,400
Obviously didn't did Didn't he say that she lifted her fingers. Yeah,

1037
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,039
like wipped herself and licked her fingers. Huh huh, yeah,

1038
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:31,920
it said. Then it wiped itself with one hand and

1039
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,639
licked the hand briefly. I mean even before that, you know,

1040
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:39,039
there's there are multiple descriptions of sasquatch is sleeping on

1041
00:46:39,079 --> 00:46:42,840
the ground with their chests down, like almost in a ball,

1042
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,920
curled up with their legs underneath them. And that's kind

1043
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,639
of what he describes, like quote, their backs to the sky,

1044
00:46:48,159 --> 00:46:51,079
knees and elbows drawn in under their bodies as they

1045
00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:53,559
were sleeping, and that's a pretty common thing. And there's

1046
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,320
artistic depictions of like the Almas, the Almasti, the Barmano,

1047
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,519
like some of the Eurasian and Asian wild men depicted

1048
00:47:02,559 --> 00:47:06,000
in exactly that position that the indigenous people would say, Oh,

1049
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:07,000
this is how they sleep.

1050
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,639
Speaker 2: And when you think about it, is that is the

1051
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:12,960
best way to retain your heat is by shrinking up

1052
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,639
into a ball. And dogs do it when it's cold.

1053
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:17,880
They get bundled up in the smallest little ball they can.

1054
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,320
What they don't realize, of course, and sasquatches don't realize

1055
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,760
is Caesar either, is that they're minimizing surface area so

1056
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,239
the heats can't escape out into the environment. And Glenn

1057
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,559
Thomas himself said that he was walking through snow in

1058
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:33,159
the area, so it must have been quite cold in

1059
00:47:33,199 --> 00:47:35,159
the area. So it makes perfect sense at a sasquatch

1060
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,840
or two in this case would be sleeping in that position.

1061
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,039
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think primates or apes have a

1062
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:44,039
quote unquote mating season. I could be totally wrong about that,

1063
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:46,159
or you know, if it's a rut, or if there's

1064
00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:49,000
just individuals going to estrus at certain times, but it

1065
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:52,360
sounds like maybe that's what he's witnessing or describing. But

1066
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,000
then again, the you know, defecating and licking the hand, Like,

1067
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:58,280
I think there's a lot in there that the squeamish

1068
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,440
person would think, like, oh, that's just someone throwing in

1069
00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:06,679
some gross things for kicks or something like that. But

1070
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,400
then if no one had ever seen anything that hinted

1071
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,960
at mating, estrous or defecation, that'd be pretty weird if

1072
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,639
you're talking about a living animal species, right, So I

1073
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:21,079
don't know, I don't find those things like problematic, but

1074
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:22,079
it is a little weird.

1075
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true.

1076
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: But it is an interesting observation of like two females

1077
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,519
traveling together, sleeping in the open together, feeding together.

1078
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 2: It's interesting.

1079
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: But I just know, like I can just hear in

1080
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,599
my mind a certain portion of the audience sort of

1081
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:42,199
like cringing, you know, those descriptions. But again, this is

1082
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,880
what the claimant said. And I do think it would

1083
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,920
be weirder if in the entire corpus of Sasquatch Siding

1084
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,400
reports there was no mention of anything like this whatsoever.

1085
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,079
It'd be like, oh, it's probably more folkloric then, because

1086
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:57,840
if it was a biological thing, you would expect people

1087
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,159
to see things that are indicative of biological processes and anatomy,

1088
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:02,679
et cetera.

1089
00:49:03,519 --> 00:49:06,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course taking a dump in the river

1090
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,400
that makes might explain away a lot of the lack

1091
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,480
of fecal evidence as well. And if there is.

1092
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,559
Speaker 1: Something to like estris or seeking a mate, then maybe

1093
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:19,719
that is you know. Again, it gave an occasional loud call.

1094
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,920
So Green concluded that side of by saying, quote, after

1095
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,360
feeding for about half an hour, working their way up

1096
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,320
the creek from him, they lay down again in a

1097
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,960
new location for about an hour. Then both got up

1098
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,760
and crossed the road. The female with the swelling climbed

1099
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,039
a few feet up in a dead yew tree and whaled.

1100
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,880
Then both moved off into the timber above the road.

1101
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,920
So maybe that does indicate something like searching for a

1102
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,480
potential mate, because it's an estris who knows.

1103
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they have to find each other somehow.

1104
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,519
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what we're all signaling when we do house.

1105
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm doing that on purpose if I can. Yeah,

1106
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,280
come hither. Look, I think Bobo calls it.

1107
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he concludes that siding, by, saying he estimated

1108
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,199
them to be only about six feet high but very heavy.

1109
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,840
They were both dark brown, covered with shaggy, dirty hair.

1110
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,639
When they laid down, they did not seek shelter, although

1111
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:12,199
there were trees nearby and at one time there was

1112
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,280
snow falling. After they left, the observer went home. He

1113
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,280
said he was too spooked to go over to where

1114
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,480
they'd been. The next day there was new snow.

1115
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: I'd love to know where that was, because I know

1116
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,760
it's the same general area, and I know the area.

1117
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:27,039
Yeah pretty okay. I didn't know where low Creek was,

1118
00:50:27,079 --> 00:50:30,440
but I know the callaw Wash area pretty well. It'd

1119
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,679
be fascinating to find out if that was ever marked

1120
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:33,920
down where the location was.

1121
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: So regarding the final sight in green said quote, his

1122
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,880
final encounter took place only about a month later. He

1123
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,519
was following some elk tracks walking on top of old

1124
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:44,760
deep snow when he happened to look back and saw

1125
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,280
right behind him, only about ten feet away, a scruffy looking,

1126
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,559
dark brown sasquatch at least nine feet tall. It had

1127
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:53,519
both arms raised in what he took to be a

1128
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:55,920
threatening way, and he scrambled to try to get a

1129
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,960
revolver out from under his rain clothes. However, the animal

1130
00:50:59,039 --> 00:51:01,280
quickly ran and duck behind the roots of a blown

1131
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,840
down tree, and since it was leaving anyway, he did

1132
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,280
not shoot at it. Instead, as the computer form notes,

1133
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,079
he quote left the area running in quote. His impressions

1134
00:51:11,119 --> 00:51:14,000
of that individual are pretty spotty, but he realized afterwards

1135
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:17,400
that it had a mild smell quote like an old outhouse,

1136
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,239
and that it also had a long upper lip that

1137
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,159
fluttered as it blew through its mouth. He also noticed

1138
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:25,480
that its hands were very large and long, but with

1139
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:28,079
the thumb quote not up where a human thumb is

1140
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:30,960
in quote. He decided at that time not to hunt

1141
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,440
in the woods alone anymore. But I don't think he's

1142
00:51:33,519 --> 00:51:36,239
kept to that decision. The thing certainly could have harmed

1143
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,159
him if it had meant to. He even speculated afterwards

1144
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:40,880
that it might have been a very old animal with

1145
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,199
failing senses and might have mistaken him for one of

1146
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:46,360
its own kind. I mean, that one's pretty I don't

1147
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,119
want to say questionable, but ten feet away is pretty close,

1148
00:51:49,159 --> 00:51:49,400
you know.

1149
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to wonder about the estimates. Like Eve

1150
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,639
when he says I walked a mile down the road,

1151
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,599
really a mile. Maybe maybe a mile's a little further

1152
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,639
than what lot of people throw around it as a mile.

1153
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,079
I think so ten feet away, maybe it's twenty, maybe

1154
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:06,239
it's thirty. I don't know. Maybe it was closer, but

1155
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,360
how did it get so close? And and and it's

1156
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,119
a pretty big one. But he describes in a different

1157
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:13,079
manner than the other large male that he saw up

1158
00:52:13,079 --> 00:52:15,800
on Burnt Grantite, So who knows, I don't know.

1159
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, when he talks about the lip like flapping, like

1160
00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:22,400
did I totally heard that when I had my my

1161
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:26,840
for sure first crazy encounter, Yeah, dude, that's exactly what.

1162
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 2: That's exactly what.

1163
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 3: Happened that I could hear the lip Here's like it

1164
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,840
was like the same, like like what the squatses doing that?

1165
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,239
That big male is doing that that that night, like

1166
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,119
blow on making this lip flap like a wrse. That's

1167
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,599
I could totally picture it like it was. It was

1168
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:47,559
such an obvious sound, like he did a great job

1169
00:52:47,639 --> 00:52:50,599
describing it. Like the visual of that, well I couldn't

1170
00:52:50,599 --> 00:52:51,920
see it, but what it sounded like.

1171
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 1: That is really interesting because there's you know, all those

1172
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,199
reports about this sort of like fluttering, gurgling sputtering sound.

1173
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,280
And what's funny is like, I didn't get to talk

1174
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,199
to Minzenski about this, but I heard that sound once

1175
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,679
and it was in the context of going through a

1176
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,559
big bag of trash, and so at first I was like,

1177
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:14,639
am I hearing a bear and whatever? It was probably

1178
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:18,920
looking for food, but it was making this like sputtering

1179
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,480
sound that maybe the closest thing you could call it

1180
00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:24,039
is purring. And then I heard an interview with Minzensky

1181
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,559
years later saying like, in his first encounter he heard

1182
00:53:27,559 --> 00:53:30,760
this purring sound and that a Shoshone person told him like, oh, yeah,

1183
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,599
that's the sound they make when they're looking for food.

1184
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:34,960
And I thought, oh, that's pretty weird. So I'd love

1185
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,440
to tell John that. But maybe maybe that's the same.

1186
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:40,000
Maybe that's how that sound is produced as something like that.

1187
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that guy sitting next to you on the

1188
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,599
plane was actually looking for food and making a purring noise.

1189
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:55,559
They're triggering me cloth Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and

1190
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,400
Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after

1191
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,639
these messages.

1192
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 1: But Green concludes this overview of Glenn Thomas's sidings by saying,

1193
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,719
quote that was his last sighting report, and in recent

1194
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,039
years he has not seen any evidence that the creatures

1195
00:54:14,039 --> 00:54:16,519
are around the area, although there have been sightings by

1196
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:19,039
other people, and he says, including one in the Coolawash

1197
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:21,760
River in nineteen seventy three quoted earlier in this chapter.

1198
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,599
The last thing he did find in February of nineteen

1199
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:27,639
sixty nine were the tracks of two creatures, one with

1200
00:54:27,679 --> 00:54:30,239
a fourteen inch foot the other eleven inch, that came

1201
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,760
out of the forest into a field where they appeared

1202
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,320
to have been eating the lower stems of clumps of grass.

1203
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,320
Tracks were made during the night more than once, but

1204
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,400
then he found them taking off across country, eventually getting

1205
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,039
out of the snow. He then backtracked into the woods

1206
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:46,000
and found that the animals had been sleeping just a

1207
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:49,400
short distance out of sight. What particularly interested him was

1208
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,559
that the two tracks were always near each other, but

1209
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:55,119
never write together. The winter during which all those observations

1210
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,000
were made was an unusually cold one in northwestern Oregon,

1211
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,239
with an exceptional amount of snow. Bearing in mind the

1212
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,239
hazards of basing too much on reports from a single source,

1213
00:55:04,519 --> 00:55:07,960
there's a wealth of information in those observations. They picture

1214
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,039
creatures that do not have an effective opposable thumb, or

1215
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,800
if they do, don't use it much. There are three

1216
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,159
accounts of sasquatches actually eating something rock rodents, willow leaves,

1217
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:22,119
and water weeds, and circumstantial evidence that they eat grass stems.

1218
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:25,199
The observation of the infant avoiding the male suggests that

1219
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,679
the trio was not a family group, and the tracks

1220
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:30,559
in the field suggest possibly a juvenile still hanging around

1221
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:33,519
its mother, but not welcome. The other pair was made

1222
00:55:33,559 --> 00:55:36,679
up of two adult females, again suggesting that family groups

1223
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:39,880
are not the norm. Female chimpanzees have to put up

1224
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,519
with large sexual swellings when in heat, but other apes

1225
00:55:42,559 --> 00:55:44,719
do not, and there is no other report of a

1226
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:49,280
sasquatch in that condition. That, plus the calling, indicates reproductive

1227
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,599
arrangements unlike those of any other ape, but perhaps suitable

1228
00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:56,159
for a species very thinly distributed. On that point, however,

1229
00:55:56,559 --> 00:55:59,960
note that he describes a total of seven individuals, all different,

1230
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,760
and tracks that appear to belong to two or more,

1231
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,719
all in an area of about two hundred square miles. Finally,

1232
00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:09,719
one of them defecating into running water at the same

1233
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,440
place where it was eating might indicate a complete lack

1234
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,800
of concern about such bodily functions, or it might possibly

1235
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,599
be a set pattern of behavior. If so, that would

1236
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:22,119
certainly cut down the chances of collecting sasquatch droppings. It

1237
00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:25,480
would also give people who safeguard domestic watersheds from pollutions

1238
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:26,480
something to think about.

1239
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: It's a great way to end the chapter.

1240
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, he forgot the other food sources was listening to

1241
00:56:32,679 --> 00:56:34,920
food sources eating its own poop.

1242
00:56:35,519 --> 00:56:40,039
Speaker 2: That is true, Colpa Faci, Yep, gorillas do it. Why

1243
00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:44,039
not sasquatches give it another chance to extract those nutrients

1244
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:44,639
out of the food.

1245
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it really is a fascinating case, and

1246
00:56:49,639 --> 00:56:52,760
it probably is the first. There's one other little reference

1247
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,880
in Sanderson's book to a guy in Oregon. It's I

1248
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,239
think it might be like the first reference to anything

1249
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,519
like a habituation or a long term repeat visit case

1250
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,119
where he says, like, I got a very strange letter,

1251
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:05,320
and I don't know what to make of it. But

1252
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,679
there's a guy in Oregon who claims that, you know,

1253
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,400
there's sasquatches showing up on his farm every once in

1254
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,199
a while, and you know, he goes through the same

1255
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,360
sort of thing, like I have a hard time believing

1256
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,880
someone that had more than one siding, but beyond that one,

1257
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,519
this has to be probably the first of such reports,

1258
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:23,079
you think.

1259
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:28,239
Speaker 2: Or in print anyway. Yeah, well, so prolifically seen, I guess,

1260
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,639
you know, like that's four sightings over a year or so,

1261
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,800
or a couple of years anyway, that's a pretty good

1262
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,239
run cold. But you think of situations like Ape Canyon

1263
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,519
they saw it more than once, but that's different. Yeah,

1264
00:57:38,519 --> 00:57:41,079
I think it's a different scenario there. And I'd have

1265
00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:44,320
to question John Green's assertion that they're all different individuals

1266
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:50,199
that were observed. Don't really know, because the bewilderment and

1267
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,800
the astonishment that Glenn Thomas might have been experiencing while

1268
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,760
observing these animals, maybe a couple of these at least

1269
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,679
were the same animal that he just didn't notice it

1270
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,760
or something thing. You know, maybe it looked bigger when

1271
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,920
it was up closer than far away. Who knows, Maybe

1272
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,199
that one was the big male for all we know.

1273
00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:08,360
We just don't know.

1274
00:58:09,159 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be really interesting to see if somewhere

1275
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:15,800
in his notes he has any location details about where

1276
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,840
these other sightings occurred in and around there.

1277
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,199
Speaker 2: But you know, two two hundred square miles. That's yeah,

1278
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:23,880
that's pretty big area. It is a big area.

1279
00:58:24,719 --> 00:58:26,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it would be worth digging in. Now,

1280
00:58:26,679 --> 00:58:28,360
it's been a long time since I've listened to that

1281
00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:31,159
full audio interview that again, I'll link in the show notes.

1282
00:58:31,159 --> 00:58:33,079
I will go back and re listen to that and

1283
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:35,639
to see if there's other details or or if the

1284
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:37,679
gist of it is in this chapter, to see what

1285
00:58:37,719 --> 00:58:40,159
else is there. But I will definitely have to go

1286
00:58:40,199 --> 00:58:43,159
revisit that BBC documentary. So you're talking about the nineteen

1287
00:58:43,199 --> 00:58:45,760
sixty eight Patterson John Napier documentary.

1288
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:46,639
Speaker 2: I believe so.

1289
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder how anyone got a hold of Glenn Thomas.

1290
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,679
Maybe Glenn Thomas got ahold of other researchers before John

1291
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:55,039
Green or actually no.

1292
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,639
Speaker 3: He says that someone came out there talk asking the

1293
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:00,599
crew if they've seen anything, and he blanked it out.

1294
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,559
In the original he says that a bigfoot researcher came

1295
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:07,960
in contact with them looking for He contacted three different

1296
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:11,159
logging crews seeing if any of them had seen anything

1297
00:59:11,199 --> 00:59:11,480
like this.

1298
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: Well, I remember during this time there was a central

1299
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,559
source of information in Es Takada and Millie Kiggins. Yeah,

1300
00:59:18,679 --> 00:59:21,360
she was there. She was a barber, my hairdresser or something.

1301
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,199
She's a barber in es Takada, and she was collecting stories,

1302
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:27,239
and so she was the main contact for all of

1303
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,840
these people, including John Green whatever else, from what I understand,

1304
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:34,239
from what I've gathered, not only through reading the John

1305
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,679
Green stuff of course, but also looking through the Barbara

1306
00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:39,440
Watson notes and even talking to Joe Beelard, who had

1307
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,079
a chance to meet her before she passed.

1308
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,639
Speaker 1: I had never heard that name.

1309
00:59:43,679 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I was not aware of that.

1310
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I was going to ask Bobo, since you're

1311
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,360
looking at older one of Green's books, you know, because

1312
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,519
this is, like you said, Apes among Us is kind

1313
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:56,360
of a compilation of earlier writings and then expanding on those.

1314
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,760
I was wondering if that older example you were reading

1315
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,000
had any more details.

1316
01:00:00,039 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Well, I'm going to be headed back up

1317
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,039
there this summer. So you haven't been there. Have you

1318
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:05,599
met the Glen Thomas site.

1319
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: No, every time that I was in the callar Wash

1320
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,880
with you, there was still snow up there, and so

1321
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,400
I think we tried one time and there was just

1322
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,519
no way of getting close to it with vehicles, and

1323
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:16,480
so we would have had to walk pretty good ways

1324
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:19,000
to get up there above the snow, because I was

1325
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,920
only out in the Callar Wash like a handful of times.

1326
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,760
I loved that area, but each time it tended to

1327
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,199
be like May or June, and so they were still

1328
01:00:26,199 --> 01:00:26,840
snow up there.

1329
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little it could be a little early

1330
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:30,079
up there. Yeah, well you're kind of if you're gonna

1331
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:31,679
be out in September, there won't be snow there. Then

1332
01:00:31,719 --> 01:00:33,440
I can take you down there. That's easy. I mean,

1333
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,159
it's easy enough to get to. Yeah, it's a wonderful area.

1334
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,880
So well, that's awesome. Pretty you'll love it, and everybody

1335
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,440
should go there. It's like one of these places you

1336
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,039
just should go there if you're in the neighborhood.

1337
01:00:42,719 --> 01:00:45,559
Speaker 3: Well, I found I found that part says uh. He

1338
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:49,360
says after this is Glen Thomas speaking, or John's been

1339
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,199
running about Glenn Thomlins. After the animals disappeared, I washed

1340
01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:54,440
and looked a few minutes and then decided I didn't

1341
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,000
want to go in that direction, so I just headed back.

1342
01:00:57,079 --> 01:00:59,239
Speaker 2: I didn't tell that cat skinner about seeing them. I

1343
01:00:59,239 --> 01:01:02,760
didn't tell anyone about it until blank blank blank.

1344
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:05,719
Speaker 3: Asked me asked me to ask among my crews maybe

1345
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,840
some of them had seen them. That was the only

1346
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,639
time I ever mentioned it to any of the fellows

1347
01:01:09,679 --> 01:01:11,800
out there, because I didn't want everyone to think I

1348
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:12,760
was a nut or something.

1349
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: Oh so Green like omitted the name.

1350
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:17,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might have been, well, it might have been

1351
01:01:17,199 --> 01:01:19,599
Millie Higgins. I'm not sure. Maybe Patterson was there, but

1352
01:01:19,639 --> 01:01:22,920
I but again, she this woman, Millie Kiggins was the

1353
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,519
main contact for bigfoot information in Esticada around this time,

1354
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:30,000
Like everybody seemed to know her, and man, I'd love

1355
01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:33,599
to know where her notes ended up. Yeah, that'd been

1356
01:01:33,639 --> 01:01:35,719
really really cool. Yeah, because there was some good information

1357
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,480
being flown around or thrown around at that time. And

1358
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:39,840
I'll have to double check. I have a bunch of

1359
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:43,079
these index cards, both in the Barbara Wasawson collection and

1360
01:01:43,079 --> 01:01:46,360
also doctor Meldrum's collection that came from John Green during

1361
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,199
his earlier attempts at forming a network of citing reports

1362
01:01:50,239 --> 01:01:53,639
and whatever else from researchers throughout the country. Really, and

1363
01:01:54,119 --> 01:01:56,800
some of those locations, like everybody knows about the well

1364
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,519
maybe not everybody, but one of the classic cases of

1365
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:02,039
this time time was also from Millie Kiggins. I might

1366
01:02:02,079 --> 01:02:04,440
add about these tracks that were found on the Roaring

1367
01:02:04,519 --> 01:02:07,199
River area and say, well, I wonder where in the

1368
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:09,159
Roaring River because that's a super good area. I've been

1369
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:11,280
to the bottom of it. It's a fantastic wilderness area,

1370
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,599
et cetera. It turns out that Arbara Wasson had GPS

1371
01:02:14,639 --> 01:02:17,000
coordinates for it, not that there was GPS, and but

1372
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:19,880
she had the coordinates for the location. So I got

1373
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,000
to learn a little bit where that was. So there's

1374
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:25,559
a lot of good information out there. I suspect that

1375
01:02:25,639 --> 01:02:28,320
has not seen the light of day because the early

1376
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,800
researchers were keeping it quiet for whatever reason. They didn't

1377
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,119
want to spoil the spot. And I totally don't blame

1378
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:35,599
them at all. But you know, after sixty years or so,

1379
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:37,440
I think it's probably okay to let those things out.

1380
01:02:39,079 --> 01:02:41,559
Speaker 1: I will definitely compile a whole bunch of stuff to

1381
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:44,360
post in the membership section when this episode goes out,

1382
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,440
like the photos Cliff that you have of you and Bobo,

1383
01:02:48,599 --> 01:02:51,280
Bart Melton, whoever else at the site, the historical photos

1384
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,760
Hinter John Binnernagel, and then the links. Like I said,

1385
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,679
I'll put links in the show notes so anybody can

1386
01:02:56,719 --> 01:02:59,480
access them to the audio interviews and other things, and

1387
01:02:59,519 --> 01:03:01,000
the few the people that have been up to the

1388
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:03,280
site and taking pictures, So I'll link to that stuff too.

1389
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,079
So there's a wealth of information about that one siding.

1390
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:08,719
But yeah, if you found anything about where those additional

1391
01:03:08,719 --> 01:03:10,400
ones where, they'd be super cool to see to try

1392
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,000
to plot out on a map, like actual locations and distances.

1393
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I did look at the Meldrum files yesterday to

1394
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,880
see if there was a file on Glenn Thomas and

1395
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,320
there was not, unfortunately.

1396
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: Oh well, I know there's a few squatchy things that

1397
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,960
have happened in the field for you. I was out

1398
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,679
in the field recently and had some very bizarre things happen,

1399
01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:32,199
which I'm about to send you a link shortly Bobo

1400
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,880
to check out. So maybe we can hop over to

1401
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:36,280
the member section and cover those times.

1402
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: I see those Yali family pictograph photos.

1403
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are pretty rad. But take a look at

1404
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:44,960
that in a minute.

1405
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:47,679
Speaker 3: Okay, So I guess that's it, folks. We did a

1406
01:03:47,719 --> 01:03:50,280
little deep dive into the Glenn Thomas site at a

1407
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:51,320
clock of this Oregon.

1408
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorites.

1409
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:56,599
Speaker 3: I guess one of those illuminating Like John Green said,

1410
01:03:56,679 --> 01:03:58,840
so one of the most illuminating reports. It's still one

1411
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,280
of the most illuminarty reports on sasquash behavior family groups though,

1412
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,559
I mean, it's just it's just a.

1413
01:04:04,519 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 2: Real wealth of information. Love that love that report.

1414
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,679
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for tuning in, Hit like, hit share, and

1415
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,920
until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.

1416
01:04:19,199 --> 01:04:22,519
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1417
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,159
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1418
01:04:25,239 --> 01:04:28,559
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you

1419
01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:31,840
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

1420
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,400
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1421
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:39,119
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

1422
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:42,519
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag

1423
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,519
Bigfoot and Beyond