WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.559 You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Monster Talk is 2 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.480 supported by listeners like you. Find out how you can 3 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:11.759 contribute via Patreon or with reviews at monster talk dot org, 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:15.679 forge slash support. Your contributions, large or small, make a 5 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:21.960 huge difference. Thanks. If monsters haunt the shadowlands, the fringes 6 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:26.120 of where civilization touches the wild, the ni shitn't surprises 7 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:28.600 that areas that are less successible to most of us 8 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:32.159 become a fertile garden for all kinds of critters and 9 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:36.439 hanks and booger monsters. While movies have taught us that 10 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:40.079 the soundtrack to a good scare is an orchestra or 11 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:45.079 a pulsing electronic beat, there are places where the dance 12 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:50.640 macabre is accompanied by fiddle, by banjo and by jug. 13 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.759 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 14 00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:02.640 A giant, hairy creature park a part in Luckness, a 15 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:05.359 twenty four a mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands 16 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:05.879 of Scotland. 17 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.719 Get the creature known as the Luckness Monster. 18 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:35.519 Monster Talk. Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. 19 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:38.840 I'm Blake Smith. When I was in high school, I 20 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:40.920 was told by one of my instructors that there are 21 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:44.319 no true mountains in Georgia, and I've been happily repeating 22 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:46.879 this bit of trivia for thirty years. But in preparing 23 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:48.920 for this episode, I decided to check and see what 24 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.480 actually constitutes a mountain, and that's when I found out 25 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.560 that the official delineation between a mountain and a hill 26 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:58.879 has been abandoned for years. I'll put a link to 27 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:01.959 the USGS article about this in the show notes, but 28 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.239 as is often the case, I am delighted to find 29 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.400 out I was wrong, and hopefully if you've been sharing 30 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.199 this bit of misinformation, you can now correct yourself as well. 31 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:13.960 Why does that matter? Well, the tallest peak in Georgia 32 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.960 is Brasstown Bald and a few years ago I took 33 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.400 my family up there because I was close to the 34 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.879 ancient Petroclyff site of track Rock Gap. I had been 35 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.599 doing some research about a pseudo archaeology theory around the 36 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:28.240 origins of that ancient site, and I'll link to that 37 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.639 article in the show notes, but I wanted to go 38 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.360 actually look at the site, and since I'd never been 39 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:36.560 up there or to my home state's highest peak, we 40 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:39.159 were so close, I decided to visit and on the 41 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.039 way I came across this road called Booger Hollow Road 42 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.879 near Blairsville. As you might imagine, this caught my attention, 43 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.199 and I found myself wondering why was the road called 44 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:54.039 Booger Hollow Road? Was there a monster legend there? I 45 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:58.000 had heard stories about Boogerman or the Boogeyman from my grandmother, 46 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.120 and I guess the Boogeyman is the classic monster whose 47 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:04.520 important job is to scare children into obedience lest they 48 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:09.520 be gotten for their sins. The history of booger monsters 49 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.759 and mountain culture is a long one. There was a 50 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:14.800 town called Booger Hollow in Floyd County, Georgia, near Rome, 51 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.919 but it has been renamed to Boosville. Apparently this is 52 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:22.759 because of a prominent family name of Booze, not because 53 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.800 of the slang for alcohol. But why the town was 54 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.080 originally called Booger Hollow is still a mystery of me 55 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.000 at this time. Other towns throughout the southern United States 56 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:34.080 also speak of boogers. There was a town called Booger Hollow, 57 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.879 Arkansas that had a sort of hillbilly folksy roadside attraction 58 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.120 set up with a sign that said Booger hollow boasted 59 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.680 a population seven if you include the coon dog. It 60 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.759 also had an amusing two story outhouse, which is exactly 61 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:51.680 the sort of visual gag that my father would be 62 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:54.599 delighted at. There's a lot of folk etymology on the 63 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:57.719 Internet that says the word boo shares origins with the 64 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.000 word booger, but I don't know if that's actually true. 65 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.000 As fascinated as I am by word origins, running them 66 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.199 to their sores is often really tough. But that town 67 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.879 of Booseville, it hints at, whether intentionally or not, the 68 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:13.919 ties between the culture of the mountains and the history 69 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.000 of moonshine and revenuers. I grew up in a family 70 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.240 it had a mixture of strict religious fervor and a 71 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.000 history of moonshine, distilling and outdaud behavior. I remember seeing 72 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.639 a lot of older gentlemen passing around a mason jar 73 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.279 now and again, and I'm pretty sure they weren't drinking 74 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:33.680 pickle juice. Some stories suggest that the legends of boogermen 75 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.120 might be tied to scaring away revenuers and people intent 76 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:41.480 on snatching liquor from stills spirits. To protect the spirits, 77 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.199 you might say, but whether these legends are based on 78 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:48.480 protective hoaxes are genuine belief in supernatural hauntings. The mountains 79 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:50.800 around here are full of monsters, and that's why we're 80 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.839 going to be talking about that in this episode Monster. 81 00:04:56.040 --> 00:05:01.079 All right, welcome to Monster Talk to as sure Elbine 82 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:06.959 and Tiffany Till. We're here today to talk about folklore 83 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.600 of Appalachia, but we're also here to talk about your 84 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:13.920 new project, the kickstarter that was remarkably funded in one day. 85 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:19.800 This is Anna O'Brien The Ghost Days Anthology. So let's 86 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:21.240 let you guys do some introductions. 87 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:25.199 So my name is Jeffany Charel. I am a concept artist. 88 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:28.439 I worked for about nine years mostly in video games. 89 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:32.720 I have since gone full freelance. I've done children's books. 90 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.439 Yeah, do you name it? I can, I'll draw it. 91 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:38.600 I've always been like a big creature monster fan for 92 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:39.040 a long time. 93 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.040 I was going to be a marine biologist, and so 94 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.959 I've always kind of had like an aquatic creature penchant 95 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.319 to a lot of my work. But yeah, Asher hit 96 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.480 me up about earlier this year. We've known each other 97 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.879 online for a bit and he was like, come work 98 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:57.480 with me on this spooky Appalachian fooklord thing, and yeah 99 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:01.160 it was right time, right place, right project. 100 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:01.920 So awesome. 101 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.720 Aw Sure, I'm a journalist. I mostly work on sort 102 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.399 of like natural history and ecology stuff, but I also 103 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:11.560 have carved out a little bit of a sideline writing 104 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.680 about folklore for anybody who will let me do it, 105 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.040 which is not really as many people as you'd imagine. 106 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:24.439 I mostly got interested in sort of Appalachian folklore because 107 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:27.480 I just it was something that I started working on 108 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:30.800 as a you know, and writer in high school and 109 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.480 just kept putting aside and coming back to and putting 110 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:37.600 aside and coming back to, and my real interest in 111 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.959 folklore and writing sort of developed together. So now that 112 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.839 I mostly am writing nonfiction, it's really nice to kind 113 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:48.600 of sit down and do much more imaginative stuff because 114 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:51.079 they they don't let you make stuff up when you're 115 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.279 a journalist. They shout at you. So you got to 116 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:54.240 have an outlet somewhere. 117 00:06:54.439 --> 00:07:00.000 Well, so much for the fake news story. Do you 118 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.160 you're in Austin? Are you doing okay? I mean I've 119 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:04.879 got friends who work down there and they're boiling their 120 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:06.759 water still, is that? Are you doing all right? 121 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:12.759 Yeah? That's a that's a fun thing there is. Uh Basically, 122 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:16.879 the river that runs through Austin Town Lake is currently 123 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:21.839 this just soupy brown morass. But it's really neat because 124 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:23.480 a bunch of the a bunch of the hill country 125 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.800 creeks run into it and they're crystal clear. So you 126 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.519 get these really weird zones where it'll be just like 127 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.439 pure clear green water, and then it meets the main 128 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.240 river and there's just like a little bit of swirl, 129 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.720 but it's like a really clear line. It's uh, it's 130 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.800 boil water and aquafina. 131 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:40.839 Well, I I hope you do. Okay. I love Austin. 132 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.319 What an amazing town. I'm gonna say a little shout 133 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.639 out to my favorite coffee shop, which is Hound's Tooth Coffee. 134 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:52.439 Oh my god, I love that. Unfortunately, it's almost five 135 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:56.519 dollars a cup, right, that's. 136 00:07:59.000 --> 00:07:59.480 Number to me. 137 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:02.439 Yeah, it's a little rich for my blood. But man, 138 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:07.040 they make a good cup of coffee. So yeah, salute. Well, anyway, 139 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.480 we're here tonight to talk about Appalachian folklore, but also 140 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:14.360 about your project. Maybe we should start with talking about 141 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.720 your kickstarter. Even though it's been funded, there's still some 142 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.839 room for uh oh, maybe let me back up just 143 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.160 a little bit. What is Kickstarter, because there's gonna be 144 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:23.920 some of our listeners who don't even know that much. 145 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.959 So Kickstarter is a platform in which you can basically 146 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:29.839 present the idea for a project. 147 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.360 And it helps if you have like a good pitch, 148 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:34.320 a good. 149 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:38.919 Presentation, and you basically say, I have this really cool 150 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.559 thing that I'm willing to work on, I have this 151 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.840 much expertise and whatever, I'm like whatever background. 152 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:45.559 You kind of just like. 153 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:47.679 Provide like a little story so that way people can like, 154 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:49.039 you know, get a sense for who you. 155 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.559 Are and where you're coming from. And then. 156 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:56.840 For the sake of transparency, just basically you say I 157 00:08:56.879 --> 00:08:59.559 need this much money to like make my dreams come true, 158 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:00.720 to fund. 159 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:02.960 My movie, to fund my app to. 160 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:08.440 There's a lot of tabletop games like Dungeons and Dragons 161 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:09.080 type stuff. 162 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.120 If you go, there's nerds out there listening. 163 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:15.120 But there's a couple of us, yeah, I think. 164 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.799 Feeling there's a nerd community that listens. 165 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:22.840 It's on the Facebook group. It's been amazing. Every time 166 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.039 I say something about Dungeons and Dragons a role playing it, 167 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:26.559 everybody goes crazy, which is great. 168 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:27.000 Yeah. 169 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.720 Yeah, no, that's like I do art for those types 170 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:33.399 of games too, so like that's my people. But but yeah, 171 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.240 so like there's a huge gaming community there, video games, 172 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.320 tabletop games, making movies, like like a lot of times 173 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.440 like uh famously was it was it, Joss Whedon somebody 174 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:45.919 like super. 175 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.639 Famous people will come in and be like and I'd 176 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:49.320 also like more millions of dollars. 177 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:51.600 But anyway, so like it's just a really good place 178 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:55.960 and an arena in which you can crowdfund a project 179 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:59.240 and just gain a lot of traction for something that 180 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:02.879 you're starting to build. And we did it in like 181 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:03.759 a day and. 182 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:09.320 Yeah our minds, Yeah, yeah, I imagine. So well, the 183 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.039 cool thing about it is that you know a lot 184 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.679 of people as creators. You know they may make something 185 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:19.639 that may be wonderful, but then you know you have 186 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.679 there's all these gatekeepers along the way. You know, you 187 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:25.159 have to get an agent and find a publisher in 188 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.279 traditional modes, but all the technology exists for self publishing. 189 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.440 But even if you self published, you can't know for 190 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.639 sure if you'll cover the cost of all your work. 191 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.440 So this is a very cool approach. And I mean 192 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:40.519 we've seen several of these that we've had on the show. 193 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:43.519 But and I've obviously I've contributed to some kickstarted things 194 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:45.600 in the day. Most of the time I end up 195 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:47.919 doing something like where you can just do a contributing. Hey, 196 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.600 good guy, good luck guys, right, you know, the little 197 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:53.200 one dollar. I appreciate what you're doing because my finances 198 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:58.039 aren't there great. But I'm really delighted that you guys 199 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:02.039 got funded because this looks like a really fun project. So, 200 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:05.759 by the way, the art work looks amazing, the writing 201 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.840 looks amazing. What drove you guys into this? I mean 202 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.600 it sounds like as sure you were sort of driving 203 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.840 the sort of thing towards a character you'd already created. 204 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:26.120 Yeah, So basically what happened was I was in high school. 205 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.600 I was writing a lot of short fiction and you know, 206 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:30.879 before I went to college and got way too busy, 207 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.799 and I just had this this idea for her, for 208 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.879 a character who would be a kind of like a 209 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.600 wandering character who could run into all these interesting folkloric 210 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.360 and mythic things that I was really interested in reading about. 211 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:49.600 And that character. As that character developed and became Anna O'Brien, 212 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:55.879 it became like it became this trying to think of 213 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.600 how to put this, it became like this process of 214 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:03.320 discovering this really interesting historical world that growing up in 215 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.840 Atlanta was like really close geographically to me too, and 216 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.159 so my my interests in sort of like the landscape 217 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.519 of Appalachia and the folklore of Appalachia all kind of 218 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.320 like got boiled into this character. And the more interested 219 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.240 I became in the character, the more interested I became 220 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:23.480 in the world, and vice versa. And so ultimately I, 221 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:27.039 you know, a couple of stories and when I could 222 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:30.639 like carve out a little bit of time of which 223 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:34.159 who could you know, go to like a different holler 224 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.039 every week and sort of have a different adventure. And 225 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:42.120 then I had some I had some medical stuff happen 226 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.000 earlier in the year, and I was like, you know what, 227 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.080 I've been sitting on these stories for a really long time. 228 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.799 I've been sharing them with friends. I'd really like them 229 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.519 to be in a place where people can see them 230 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.039 and like them. And so I got in touch with 231 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.960 Tiffany was like, Hey, could I commission to cover from you? 232 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.200 And and she was like, Oh, this is really cool, 233 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.639 and so we just started talking about maybe doing a 234 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:06.799 book together, and it kind of like snowballed from there. 235 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.360 That's fantastic. How are you I mean, I want to 236 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.080 get to the monsters, but how are you doing the 237 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.480 publishing part? Like the who are you working with for 238 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:15.960 actually getting out the books? 239 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.320 So, what we were initially planning on doing was doing 240 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.240 incrame print on demand, which is cheaper because obviously you're 241 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.000 only printing the books that you need. We're currently shooting 242 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.200 for a stretch goal of eleven five hundred dollars. We're 243 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.679 currently sitting at eleven thousand, so I think we'll probably 244 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:36.519 hit it. But that will allow us to do a 245 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.720 full print run of five hundred books through the printer 246 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.840 print Ninja. And we are completely self publishing this, Like 247 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.120 when it's done, we'll be able to, you know, put 248 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:49.879 it up on Amazon. We'll be able to try and 249 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.200 get it into bookstores, you know, put it in libraries. 250 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:55.879 But it's going out just under us, like we don't 251 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:57.600 have an actual publisher that we're working with. 252 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.320 That's but that's very cool. What about a are you 253 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:01.039 doing anything for? 254 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:01.320 Like? 255 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:04.559 Are you who's doing your editing? Are you doing it yourself? 256 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:09.000 Or so I had done some initial editing on it 257 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:12.840 and then we've got a really fantastic film critic named 258 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.039 Gretchen Falker Martin who came on to be an editor. 259 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.720 The manuscript is actually it's completely written, it's completely edited, 260 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.279 all of the initial art is done. We have a 261 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.120 stretch goal for more art. If we hit that, that'll 262 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.559 be great. But basically what we're just trying to do 263 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:33.679 now is like get the money in order to make 264 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.000 this thing something that you can hold in your hands. 265 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.879 Yeah, no, that's very cold. Yeah, rocking it. 266 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.440 It basically already exists. 267 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.120 It's just now like the stretch will serve to like 268 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.960 make it like even more shiny and more beautiful. 269 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.600 Yeah, you guys were kind enough to share early looks 270 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:54.759 for me and Karen. By the way, Karen couldn't be 271 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.320 here this week, but thank you very much for letting 272 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:01.320 us have a look. It looks beautiful and I'd really 273 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.480 love to see a hardback of it myself. So that's 274 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.679 I hope you reach your stretch calls. I grew up 275 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:12.120 in the North Georgia mountains, you know, and even so 276 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:15.159 I was I was surprised at how little of the 277 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.679 folklore I ran across, you know, just in sort of 278 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:23.200 natural oral history or oral tradition. Most of the stuff 279 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.320 I learned from reading fiction or reading books about folklore, 280 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.000 and you know, things like the fox Fire books. And 281 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.240 as one of the inspirations you talked about was Manly 282 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.759 Wade Weldman and his Silver John stories. So that's an 283 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.960 interesting sort of character and some fiction people may or 284 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.039 may not be familiar with. But can you talk about 285 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.799 how you got your source material? Like where did you 286 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.559 go to to find out about this folklore? 287 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:54.000 Sure? So one of the main sources that I used, 288 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.480 and I really literally just started like years ago, just 289 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:03.279 started collecting books of apple folk ways and folklore, and 290 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.200 you know, some of them are really quite useful, stuff 291 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.440 like Strange Tales of the Dark and Bloody Ground is 292 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:10.600 a really good And then the deeper I got, I 293 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.240 started getting into books like Witches, Ghosts, and Signs by 294 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:17.639 Patrick Gaynor, which is a really fantastic compilation of mostly 295 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:23.960 Virginia ghost and witch law. And then the most and 296 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.480 really the most useful book was The Silver Bullet and 297 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.759 Other American Witch Stories, which is compiled by Hubert Davis, 298 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.480 which is this really fantastic treasury of various like American 299 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.799 witch narratives and motifs and folklore. And one of the 300 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.159 things that I found in the course of researching this, 301 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.039 and you know, also reading stuff like James Mooney, Uh, 302 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.399 you know, Minion Legends of the Cherokee Is. There's all 303 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:54.279 of this, There's all this material, but there's there's so 304 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.399 few good books that are just general overviews of like 305 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.000 Appalachian specific folklore. It's all reached compilations. It's all, oh, 306 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.759 here's folk lore of the Smoky Mountains, here's folklore of Tennessee, 307 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:09.359 here's folklore of North Carolina or West Virginia. So in 308 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.519 order to really get that sense of like what the 309 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.920 regional motifs are, you have to get all these books 310 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.400 and like read them and just compare notes and and 311 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:20.839 sort of try and put together a broader understanding of 312 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:22.920 the sort of like folklork systems that you're working with. 313 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.920 You know, I find it interesting that I grew up 314 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.960 calling it the Appalachians, and up until like a fairly 315 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.200 recent episode of Monster Talk, I just always thought that's 316 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.200 what it was. But I apparently a lot of people 317 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.079 say Appalachian and I hear you saying that. Did you 318 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:42.079 did you notice that or did you run into that before? 319 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.920 The difference in the pronunciation or the pronunciation. 320 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:50.480 Yeah, I don't actually know where that comes from the way. 321 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:54.200 So I grew up when I was younger saying Appalachian. 322 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.200 And then when I spent time sort of like driving 323 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.920 around in North Carolina for sort of unrelated reasons, but 324 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.519 I'll take any opportunity to get up into western North Carolina, 325 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.880 I heard people say Appalachian and somebody actually corrected me, 326 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:12.559 You say appalation, but actually it's like throwing Appalachia. 327 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.839 I was like, oh, all right, wow here, I don't 328 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.880 that's really funny. Okay, okay, yeah, because I mean the 329 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:22.279 range itself stretches a long way, so you know, I 330 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:27.160 grew up in it. But my sister took me to 331 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.519 task because she said, when I say that, it sounds 332 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.279 like I'm saying we grew up as hillbilly's and that's 333 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:36.200 not really the same thing. So hardly now my grandmother, 334 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.599 I would say, she did. I mean, my family was, 335 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.480 you know, all into moonshining and all kinds of other things. 336 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:50.119 But but yeah, so we were, we were not hillbillies. 337 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.880 Well, honestly, it's it's interesting that you bring that up, though, 338 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.240 because there's actually one other book that I wanted to mention, 339 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:01.079 which is really sort of foundation to this project which 340 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:05.720 is called Rampollo by Steven Stall, and it has nothing 341 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:07.960 to do with folklore, but it's all about the sort 342 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:13.039 of logging and mining of of Appalachia and how you know, 343 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.599 the sort of American conception of the mountaineers went from being, oh, 344 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:19.680 you know, they're these wonderful pioneers that were taming the 345 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.920 wilderness to oh, they're these backwards hillbillies who couldn't find 346 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.519 their way out of a paper bag, and really they're 347 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.240 not really using those forests anyway, so we can probably 348 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.240 just cut them down and sell the timber and just 349 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.559 leave them to be poor. And it was this really 350 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:38.000 interesting thing because when we talk about Appalachia, there's all 351 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:42.240 these really negative, nasty stereotypes about it that still really persist, 352 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.200 and in a way, like hillbillies themselves are kind of 353 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:50.559 like monsterized in sort of popular culture and stuff like Deliverance. 354 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.680 Oh yeah, yeah, I was just actually looking back at that, 355 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:58.000 you know, with the death of Burt Reynolds, looking back 356 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.240 at Deliverance, and there's still a lot of resentment up 357 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:05.319 in North Georgia around the way that the people there 358 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.359 were sort of presented in the movie. I mean, it 359 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.519 was just a movie, right, you know, I hardly ever 360 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:17.160 squeal like a pig is at my point, I guess reason. 361 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.920 No, I actually just watched that movie recently for the 362 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.559 first time. That's a Yeah. 363 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:25.440 That's a trip. Doesn't it make you want to go rafting? 364 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:27.240 Not? 365 00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:32.640 So, I'm just like I was just more alarmed at 366 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.000 like what John Voight looks like. 367 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.799 Now, oh yeah, yeah, where he came from. 368 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:38.920 I was like wow. 369 00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:40.880 But No. 370 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.119 One of the books that very similarly doesn't have anything 371 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:46.839 to do with folklore. It kind of touches into it 372 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.839 a little bit is Night Comes to the Cumberlands by 373 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:51.039 Harry Caudle. 374 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.279 It's an older book. 375 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.920 It's from nineteen sixty two, so there's a lot of 376 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:58.440 language that. 377 00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.480 We don't use anymore. 378 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.039 It poorly represents a lot of people, but it is 379 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.519 kind of one of the first like overviews of why 380 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.799 why that, like why the entire region came to be 381 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.559 how it is, And a lot of it is just like, yeah, 382 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:18.440 basically like the people that lived there weren't seen as people. 383 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.400 So blow up the mountain, we tear the trees down. 384 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:24.640 We're just gonna tape everything that we can and you 385 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.440 see a lot of this like with you know, just 386 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.359 even today, like the coverage of the region. 387 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.960 But yeah, I found a lot. 388 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:36.160 Of difficulty in trying to find specific bits of folklore 389 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.200 that were kind of like because. 390 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.039 Like people talk to each other. There was a solid. 391 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.440 Culture that formed very early on across the Appalachian Mountains, 392 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.640 but it's always covered in this kind of like very 393 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:50.920 piecemeal sort of way. Whenever it's you know, condensed into 394 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.279 any sort of like folkl worked ome or like it's 395 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:58.960 either like specifically about the Cherokee myths of the region, 396 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:04.720 or it's specifically about the Hoodoo tradition of the former 397 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:06.720 slaves that lived in the region or something like that, 398 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:12.440 like or it's like even the book I mentioned only 399 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:14.640 covers the Cumberlands and that it doesn't account for the 400 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.240 Smoky Mountains, it doesn't account for the Blue Mountains. So 401 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.200