Speaker 1: Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,
Speaker 1: and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: optimism because.
Speaker 2: It's going to be a great conversation.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be awesome, and I can't wait to discover
Speaker 3: what we're going to discover in this dialogue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't, don't. Don't be so naive. You just think
Speaker 1: everything is going to be okay when it clearly is not.
Speaker 1: This is not going to be a very good conversation,
Speaker 1: but I'm willing to try anyway. I was in a
Speaker 1: meeting with a group of people and there was some
Speaker 1: you know, things being discussed that didn't necessarily have obvious
Speaker 1: solutions to the problem, Like they had to be worked
Speaker 1: out still, and there wasn't any magic bullet that would
Speaker 1: have solved everything. It was clearly going to be a
Speaker 1: situation where they're going to be trade offs and and
Speaker 1: prioritization and values we're gonna have to be taken into
Speaker 1: account to make a decision, a hard decision on what
Speaker 1: the right way or the wrong way to go was.
Speaker 2: As this team.
Speaker 1: And there was a person in the meeting who was
Speaker 1: incredibly I wanted I wanted to say optimistic. But but
Speaker 1: by the end of the meeting, I believed and and
Speaker 1: I spoke with others afterward who also believed that they
Speaker 1: were being unrealistic about the situation, and and the the
Speaker 1: things this person would be saying were indicative of a
Speaker 1: of a person who you know, the old saying when
Speaker 1: when when a person drank the kool aid, you know,
Speaker 1: of their whatever, whoever their company is, they're just this
Speaker 1: constant cheerleader. And and I'm not saying that cheerleading isn't important.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. You know, sometimes you you have
Speaker 1: to take a leap of faith with your organization, uh
Speaker 1: if if they have done right by you in the past.
Speaker 1: There are times when when that might be necessary. But
Speaker 1: but I think that the difference between a person who
Speaker 1: does that and just being optimistic, they're not the same thing,
Speaker 1: because I know people who have been optimistic in the past,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't rise to the level of where I
Speaker 1: wanted to roll my eyes and say, if you're feeling
Speaker 1: this way right now, you clearly haven't considered everything. But
Speaker 1: I didn't want to sound pessimistic. And yet I think
Speaker 1: there's a way to do both. There's a way to
Speaker 1: be realistic about a situation without making it seem like
Speaker 1: you're just blindly following whatever your organization is doing. That
Speaker 1: you're a thinking person and you can figure things out,
Speaker 1: and that you can take things into account, that you're
Speaker 1: that kind of person without losing the optimism that is
Speaker 1: I think a necessity if you're going to be a
Speaker 1: leader of people. And I want to talk about how
Speaker 1: to kind of thread that needle, because I think it's
Speaker 1: a fine line. I think some people do it really well,
Speaker 1: and I think some people struggle with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I think that there's I think a
Speaker 3: big part of that really comes down to authenticity for me,
Speaker 3: Like I think that we all know people that are
Speaker 3: just overly joys. They have a they have a positive
Speaker 3: energy to them. They are kind of happy to be alive,
Speaker 3: They're happy to be there. They have this genuine feeling
Speaker 3: of you know, things are good, things are great, Like
Speaker 3: we can we can accomplish anything. It's great to see somebody,
Speaker 3: it's good to see you, like it's good to be here.
Speaker 3: Like they have this general sense of optimism that I
Speaker 3: would even say many times it's kind of contagious. Like
Speaker 3: they're just good people to be around. And I think
Speaker 3: when you are that person and people understand that and
Speaker 3: sense that, then it doesn't get old and it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel like you're kind of faking it or that you're
Speaker 3: you know, too far into to your point, like drinking
Speaker 3: the kool aid or whatever. Like you that's just who
Speaker 3: you are as a person. I think when people come
Speaker 3: across as optimistic but you're you're not getting a sense
Speaker 3: of like it being authentic or I see this a
Speaker 3: lot with people that in you know, in the leadership game,
Speaker 3: that are extremely well read, meaning that they read a
Speaker 3: lot of books about leadership, a lot of them all
Speaker 3: the time, and they're always quoting them and they're talking
Speaker 3: about them that type of thing. But then you're as
Speaker 3: you're even talking about it, you're just thinking, like, well,
Speaker 3: have I seen you implement any of this, like besides
Speaker 3: like that being an idea, besides that being a quote
Speaker 3: that you got or a thing that said, like how
Speaker 3: does it actually show up like every day for you?
Speaker 3: And what are you doing besides just reading the book?
Speaker 3: Like how are you implementing that into your leadership? So
Speaker 3: I view this like optimism aspect in the same kind
Speaker 3: of way where it's like either you are truly, you know,
Speaker 3: an optimistic person. You're somebody who has this positive energy
Speaker 3: and that's who you are all the time. And then
Speaker 3: and you're excited about something at work or a strategy
Speaker 3: or a process or something like, people are like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's cool, like you're really into this, versus somebody who
Speaker 3: turns it on when they have to or or or
Speaker 3: then you never get the sense of the realness of
Speaker 3: who they are. It feels like it's just kind of
Speaker 3: a facade. It feels like they don't want to share,
Speaker 3: and they use that optimism to even push you away
Speaker 3: a little bit, to not get too personal or get
Speaker 3: too deep into who they are what they really think.
Speaker 1: Right, right, if I if I bury them a head
Speaker 1: in the sand, then the bad things can't get me, right, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're right. And that that is when optimism rises
Speaker 1: to the level of being unhealthy, because you know it,
Speaker 1: it kind of belies a lack of cognition around what
Speaker 1: the actual situation is. But there are also people who
Speaker 1: seem to be able to be very realistic about the
Speaker 1: situation is whatever it is, very realistic and kind of
Speaker 1: uh able to articulate the problems. But yet they still
Speaker 1: seem optimistic, even even in situations where they're going to
Speaker 1: be massive trade offs needed and there isn't a solution
Speaker 1: that really solves everything. There's gonna be some some fallout
Speaker 1: or some some hard, hard decisions made, they still seem
Speaker 1: to be optimistic. And and I I think the difference
Speaker 1: with those people it's optimism isn't on that everything's going
Speaker 1: to be great optimism. I believe it comes down to
Speaker 1: whether a person feels like they are in control of
Speaker 1: whatever they can be in control of, right, like that
Speaker 1: they are prepared with the skills, the knowledge, the abilities,
Speaker 1: that they're prepared with those things to be able to
Speaker 1: best take on whatever is about to happen, and equally
Speaker 1: as equally as much they are able to articulate the
Speaker 1: things that are out of their control and let go
Speaker 1: of them. And and and that allows them to have
Speaker 1: that optimism that doesn't let go of the realism, right
Speaker 1: Because if you're optimistic and and it comes off as
Speaker 1: like you have a lack of realism around the situation,
Speaker 1: that could come off as like I'm in control of
Speaker 1: all of this, right, But but you and I both
Speaker 1: know when it comes to you know, business decisions and
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, hard business decisions that evolve trade offs.
Speaker 1: You you know very well as well as I do,
Speaker 1: that that not everything is in our control, That there
Speaker 1: are things that are made, decisions that are made at
Speaker 1: higher pay grades than we are at UH, and that
Speaker 1: we just have to deal with the fallout of UH
Speaker 1: and kind of navigate those those.
Speaker 2: Things as they happen.
Speaker 1: But but if if I know, like on a very
Speaker 1: on a very broad level, I'm working for a company
Speaker 1: and it's going to go out of business, Okay, well
Speaker 1: does that terrify me or not? I don't know. Do
Speaker 1: I have a strong network and a good resume? You know,
Speaker 1: have I am? I? Do I understand what my options are?
Speaker 1: Do I know my own worth? If the answer is
Speaker 1: yes to all that, then I can I'm more likely
Speaker 1: to land well when the company goes out of business
Speaker 1: if I don't. If I can't say all those things,
Speaker 1: then the idea of my company going out of business
Speaker 1: is terrifying. Right, And in order to be optimistic about it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you think, oh, my company's not
Speaker 1: going out of business. That's that's when the optimism turns
Speaker 1: into the fantasy. It's when I don't need to make
Speaker 1: my resume great and develop my network and make sure
Speaker 1: that I have the right skills because my company is
Speaker 1: just fine. That's when the optimism rises to the fantasy.
Speaker 1: But optimism in the face of something difficult just means
Speaker 1: do I can I convey to my people a sense
Speaker 1: of calmness that comes from separating out the things I
Speaker 1: can control from the things that I can't, and on
Speaker 1: the things that I can control, have I taken the
Speaker 1: necessary steps to make sure they are most likely to
Speaker 1: end in my favor. I think that's really necessary if
Speaker 1: you're a leader, to be able to do that, And
Speaker 1: that's where you can kind of get people to come
Speaker 1: along for the ride versus just like sitting there judging
Speaker 1: you for not being realistic about the situation, or equally
Speaker 1: as bad. If you come off as pessimistic about the situation,
Speaker 1: then they might believe that you're not lying to them.
Speaker 1: They might believe that you are, that your decisions are
Speaker 1: rooted in reality. Oh, my company's going out of business.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be destitute. I don't know what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I have nothing.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: They might believe that what you're saying is true, but
Speaker 1: good luck getting them to follow you if that's what
Speaker 1: you're saying to them. Right, So, if you're hoping to
Speaker 1: lead the team of people through a difficult time, then
Speaker 1: going about it that way is equally detrimental to your
Speaker 1: ability to lead them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think it's right.
Speaker 3: I think it's the more you're kind of talking through
Speaker 3: that and I'm thinking about it, I actually think that
Speaker 3: it's in.
Speaker 2: It's in the.
Speaker 3: Variety of how you connect with people and interact with
Speaker 3: people as a leader, and like giving them and showing
Speaker 3: them variety is actually what develops the element of authenticity
Speaker 3: because like, you can be an optimistic person, you can
Speaker 3: be very positive, you can see the world that way.
Speaker 3: But if there's times when you're not like you, if
Speaker 3: you don't show people when you're not a little bit,
Speaker 3: or when you don't show people that maybe you have
Speaker 3: a concern or like, while I'm optimistic that we'll get there,
Speaker 3: I'm also frustrated on how we're being asked to do
Speaker 3: this or what the hurdle is that's in front of us,
Speaker 3: or whatever the case is, Like, if you don't give
Speaker 3: people the variety aspect to say like, yeah, like I
Speaker 3: am a positive person who sees and believes and are
Speaker 3: ability to get this done. But I'm going to have
Speaker 3: my moments, and you don't share those moments to a degree,
Speaker 3: you don't have that ability to to adjust or to
Speaker 3: to not just show one facet of who you are.
Speaker 3: I think that's probably what I was thinking about, was
Speaker 3: like those human to be human, yeah, exactly, to be
Speaker 3: human exactly, yeah, because like those that I think struggle
Speaker 3: with it. I'm thinking about in my head, like who
Speaker 3: those people are I've met over time, and I go like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they really only show you one facet, yeah, and maybe
Speaker 3: a slightly second one.
Speaker 2: But like that, by only showing that, it makes.
Speaker 3: It really hard to believe that there's a wholeness or
Speaker 3: you know, to you like there's a human element, like
Speaker 3: there are there are days when you show up not
Speaker 3: that way, and that's okay, and you should. But I
Speaker 3: think that when when you don't allow people to see
Speaker 3: you as a whole, then it kind of creates that
Speaker 3: like questioning of like, well, is this really who you are?
Speaker 2: Right right?
Speaker 1: There's there's there's We've talked about this in the past,
Speaker 1: about this importance of authenticity, But but that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you're not on stage too right, Like if a
Speaker 1: leader is always on stage, and I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people interpret that to mean that they have to
Speaker 1: be this kind of like this rock, you know, like
Speaker 1: everything's great all the time. They can't show the vulnerability
Speaker 1: or the weakness. And no on stage means that the
Speaker 1: stage that you're on, the part that you've auditioned for,
Speaker 1: is a part where you're auditioning to be a real person,
Speaker 1: not a fake person. So authenticity, authenticity combined with having
Speaker 1: to be on stage all the time means that what
Speaker 1: you're being judged at while on stage is your authenticity,
Speaker 1: not your positivity. Right, It's both. And the leaders that
Speaker 1: I know who just really do a great job of
Speaker 1: all always being positive, always being optimistic, not not ever
Speaker 1: kind of letting the other side of them out a
Speaker 1: little bit, many of them end up, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of torpedoing their own career because something gets to them. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Something eventually hits and all of the stuff that was
Speaker 1: being pushed down for months or years comes to the surface.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying they you know, they blow up
Speaker 1: at somebody and and and start you know, going up
Speaker 1: in a blaze of glory. I just mean something comes
Speaker 1: out a little a little line or something they say
Speaker 1: or something that kind of completely destroys the facade that
Speaker 1: they've been trying to build up over a period of
Speaker 1: months or years, and and and it and it kind
Speaker 1: of creeps out, and that that kind of kills their
Speaker 1: entire ability to lead their team because now they're being
Speaker 1: seen as also also that oh, you're not only you're
Speaker 1: not this positive person, but also everything that we came
Speaker 1: to know about you is fake. And so the best
Speaker 1: way to not ever have that happen is to not
Speaker 1: try to keep it from happening, to just be yourself.
Speaker 1: And if you just be yourself, that's great, as long
Speaker 1: as who yourself is is an optimistic person. And if
Speaker 1: you have a hard time doing that, you need to
Speaker 1: kind of think about where that's rooted in, Like why
Speaker 1: do you have a hard time being an optimistic person
Speaker 1: in general? Why do you have a hard time separating
Speaker 1: out the things you can control from the things you can't,
Speaker 1: and then taking the steps to make sure that you
Speaker 1: align your actions with the way that makes it most
Speaker 1: likely to turn out in your favor. Not that you
Speaker 1: believe with all your heart that it will turn out
Speaker 1: in your favor, but that you believe that whatever the
Speaker 1: outcome is, you won't look back on it and think
Speaker 1: I could have done something differently, or I should have
Speaker 1: been more prepared, or I should have done this differently
Speaker 1: versus this. The idea is, when the chips have all fallen,
Speaker 1: can you look back on it and think I did
Speaker 1: everything that I could in order to make this turn
Speaker 1: out the right way, and I conveyed that to my
Speaker 1: people in a realistic way. And if the answer to
Speaker 1: those things is both yes, then regardless of what happens,
Speaker 1: you won't have degraded your ability to lead those people
Speaker 1: and your ability to lead people in general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And with that it brings us to this
Speaker 3: episode's womanute hack. But first off, your words from our sponsors, all.
Speaker 1: Right for this episode is one minute hackers I want
Speaker 1: you to do. When you're interacting with your people, the
Speaker 1: key difference between coming off as optimistic or as living
Speaker 1: in a fantasy land about what real life is or
Speaker 1: what's what the actual things that are happening are are
Speaker 1: whether or not you have the ability to validate the
Speaker 1: concerns of the person you're talking to prior to moving forward.
Speaker 1: And so when a person is comes off as that
Speaker 1: drink the kool aid cheerleader kind of person. What happens
Speaker 1: is someone areulates something that's a problem or an issue
Speaker 1: that they're trying to deal with, and the response never
Speaker 1: addresses that thing that they brought up. It never validates
Speaker 1: that concern. It glosses over it from a standpoint of
Speaker 1: just be positive. Oh, you'll be fine, we'll get through
Speaker 1: it together, right, And that doesn't actually tell a person
Speaker 1: that their concerns are valid. It actually tells the person
Speaker 1: their concerns are not valid. You're saying to them, you're
Speaker 1: wrong to be concerned about this, but I'm not backing
Speaker 1: it up with anything. The right thing to do. If
Speaker 1: you're a leader and you're trying to convey a sense
Speaker 1: of optimism, it starts with validating the concern that the
Speaker 1: other person has, because if they're really articulating it and
Speaker 1: they really believe that to be true, there's a reason
Speaker 1: why they're saying that, And so meeting them where they
Speaker 1: are and kind of validating why they feel that concern
Speaker 1: and then helping them get to a place where they
Speaker 1: feel like they have more control over the situation will
Speaker 1: make them be less likely to be pessimistic about it
Speaker 1: and you'll be more likely to be seen as the
Speaker 1: optimistic leader, not as the fantasy land cheerleader type of leader.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a great call out.
Speaker 3: I think that it's like there's been many times in
Speaker 3: my career where I've rolled my eyes at that fantasy
Speaker 3: land like raw rah, everything is always positive cheerleader and
Speaker 3: like look, while there's an element of good energy that
Speaker 3: you can get from that, I also think that if
Speaker 3: you're truly talking about like being authentic and being someone
Speaker 3: who wants to have a positive influence on others, you
Speaker 3: can definitely show up in a place where your energy
Speaker 3: is contagious and there's an element of fun. There's an
Speaker 3: element of kind of like looseness and like willingness to
Speaker 3: be you know, silly, or to to get people, you know,
Speaker 3: to to level up their energy in a good and
Speaker 3: positive way without being the everything is awesome, you know
Speaker 3: uh style of leader.
Speaker 2: And I think that for me is actually the truest.
Speaker 3: Test to optimism is saying I'm optimistic because I know
Speaker 3: we can do this. I'm optimistic because we can have
Speaker 3: fun and work hard at the same time. I'm optimistic
Speaker 3: because we have plenty of things to celebrate and I'm
Speaker 3: optimistic because I know that when we apply ourselves to
Speaker 3: whatever we're working on, we're going.
Speaker 2: To find success. And I don't have to be in
Speaker 2: that rah rah rah, Let's go team. We can do
Speaker 2: this if we all work hard. You know, like there's
Speaker 2: a place for that.
Speaker 3: But I think that if you're really trying to show
Speaker 3: up as yourself and show up in a positive way,
Speaker 3: I think for me, that's the way to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree with that. And and what it
Speaker 1: comes down to is if if if the people you're
Speaker 1: talking to believe that you've heard their concerns prior to
Speaker 1: showing your optimism, if they truly believe that you understand
Speaker 1: where they're coming from, and you haven't just kind of
Speaker 1: glossed over it because it's the elephant in the room
Speaker 1: that you don't want to address. You're just kind of
Speaker 1: ignoring what they've said because you want to move on
Speaker 1: to the positivity that you are so good at doing.
Speaker 1: That's when it will come off as inauthentic. But addressing
Speaker 1: their concerns from a standpoint of that that if they're
Speaker 1: articulating them, then they're real to them. They might be
Speaker 1: real to you. You might not agree with them, but
Speaker 1: the fact that they are bringing it up means that
Speaker 1: it is real to them in that moment, and to
Speaker 1: to ignore it or to not address it, and if
Speaker 1: you don't agree with it, you can ask more questions. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's let's dive more into that. Like you, you're you're
Speaker 1: clearly concerned about this happening. Maybe I'm missing something? What
Speaker 1: what are you thinking right now that maybe I'm missing
Speaker 1: you know, like, be open to this idea that that
Speaker 1: person is not just right about the about their beliefs,
Speaker 1: but that you're wrong. And you might be wrong, but
Speaker 1: chances are just operating that way will get them to
Speaker 1: open up about what their concerns are and that will
Speaker 1: tell you a lot more about what they need to
Speaker 1: hear in the moment to be able to let go
Speaker 1: of those concerns. Whereas if you just tell them, tell
Speaker 1: them to let go of those concerns without addressing it
Speaker 1: to begin with, or the reasons why they have them,
Speaker 1: no one's going to do that. They're not going to
Speaker 1: let go of their concerns. They're going to hold onto them,
Speaker 1: and you won't be equipped to deal with them as
Speaker 1: a leader because you never stopped to ask what they were,
Speaker 1: or why the.
Speaker 3: Person has them absolutely and with that it brings us
Speaker 3: at the end of this episode, this is hack your leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you
Speaker 2: all next time.