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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo,

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<v Speaker 1>and Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>optimism because.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to be a great conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>It's gonna be awesome, and I can't wait to discover

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<v Speaker 3>what we're going to discover in this dialogue.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, don't, don't. Don't be so naive. You just think

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<v Speaker 1>everything is going to be okay when it clearly is not.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not going to be a very good conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm willing to try anyway. I was in a

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<v Speaker 1>meeting with a group of people and there was some

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<v Speaker 1>you know, things being discussed that didn't necessarily have obvious

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<v Speaker 1>solutions to the problem, Like they had to be worked

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<v Speaker 1>out still, and there wasn't any magic bullet that would

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<v Speaker 1>have solved everything. It was clearly going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>situation where they're going to be trade offs and and

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<v Speaker 1>prioritization and values we're gonna have to be taken into

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<v Speaker 1>account to make a decision, a hard decision on what

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<v Speaker 1>the right way or the wrong way to go was.

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<v Speaker 2>As this team.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was a person in the meeting who was

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly I wanted I wanted to say optimistic. But but

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<v Speaker 1>by the end of the meeting, I believed and and

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<v Speaker 1>I spoke with others afterward who also believed that they

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<v Speaker 1>were being unrealistic about the situation, and and the the

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<v Speaker 1>things this person would be saying were indicative of a

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<v Speaker 1>of a person who you know, the old saying when

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<v Speaker 1>when when a person drank the kool aid, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>of their whatever, whoever their company is, they're just this

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<v Speaker 1>constant cheerleader. And and I'm not saying that cheerleading isn't important.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying that. You know, sometimes you you have

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<v Speaker 1>to take a leap of faith with your organization, uh

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<v Speaker 1>if if they have done right by you in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>There are times when when that might be necessary. But

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<v Speaker 1>but I think that the difference between a person who

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<v Speaker 1>does that and just being optimistic, they're not the same thing,

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<v Speaker 1>because I know people who have been optimistic in the past,

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<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't rise to the level of where I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to roll my eyes and say, if you're feeling

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<v Speaker 1>this way right now, you clearly haven't considered everything. But

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to sound pessimistic. And yet I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a way to do both. There's a way to

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<v Speaker 1>be realistic about a situation without making it seem like

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<v Speaker 1>you're just blindly following whatever your organization is doing. That

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<v Speaker 1>you're a thinking person and you can figure things out,

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<v Speaker 1>and that you can take things into account, that you're

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of person without losing the optimism that is

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<v Speaker 1>I think a necessity if you're going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>leader of people. And I want to talk about how

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of thread that needle, because I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a fine line. I think some people do it really well,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think some people struggle with it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree, I think that there's I think a

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<v Speaker 3>big part of that really comes down to authenticity for me,

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<v Speaker 3>Like I think that we all know people that are

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<v Speaker 3>just overly joys. They have a they have a positive

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<v Speaker 3>energy to them. They are kind of happy to be alive,

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<v Speaker 3>They're happy to be there. They have this genuine feeling

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<v Speaker 3>of you know, things are good, things are great, Like

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<v Speaker 3>we can we can accomplish anything. It's great to see somebody,

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<v Speaker 3>it's good to see you, like it's good to be here.

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<v Speaker 3>Like they have this general sense of optimism that I

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<v Speaker 3>would even say many times it's kind of contagious. Like

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<v Speaker 3>they're just good people to be around. And I think

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<v Speaker 3>when you are that person and people understand that and

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<v Speaker 3>sense that, then it doesn't get old and it doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>feel like you're kind of faking it or that you're

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<v Speaker 3>you know, too far into to your point, like drinking

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<v Speaker 3>the kool aid or whatever. Like you that's just who

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<v Speaker 3>you are as a person. I think when people come

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<v Speaker 3>across as optimistic but you're you're not getting a sense

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<v Speaker 3>of like it being authentic or I see this a

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<v Speaker 3>lot with people that in you know, in the leadership game,

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<v Speaker 3>that are extremely well read, meaning that they read a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of books about leadership, a lot of them all

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<v Speaker 3>the time, and they're always quoting them and they're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about them that type of thing. But then you're as

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<v Speaker 3>you're even talking about it, you're just thinking, like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>have I seen you implement any of this, like besides

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<v Speaker 3>like that being an idea, besides that being a quote

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<v Speaker 3>that you got or a thing that said, like how

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<v Speaker 3>does it actually show up like every day for you?

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<v Speaker 3>And what are you doing besides just reading the book?

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<v Speaker 3>Like how are you implementing that into your leadership? So

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<v Speaker 3>I view this like optimism aspect in the same kind

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<v Speaker 3>of way where it's like either you are truly, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>an optimistic person. You're somebody who has this positive energy

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<v Speaker 3>and that's who you are all the time. And then

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<v Speaker 3>and you're excited about something at work or a strategy

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<v Speaker 3>or a process or something like, people are like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that's cool, like you're really into this, versus somebody who

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<v Speaker 3>turns it on when they have to or or or

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<v Speaker 3>then you never get the sense of the realness of

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<v Speaker 3>who they are. It feels like it's just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a facade. It feels like they don't want to share,

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<v Speaker 3>and they use that optimism to even push you away

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit, to not get too personal or get

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<v Speaker 3>too deep into who they are what they really think.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, if I if I bury them a head

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<v Speaker 1>in the sand, then the bad things can't get me, right, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're right. And that that is when optimism rises

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<v Speaker 1>to the level of being unhealthy, because you know it,

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<v Speaker 1>it kind of belies a lack of cognition around what

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<v Speaker 1>the actual situation is. But there are also people who

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<v Speaker 1>seem to be able to be very realistic about the

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<v Speaker 1>situation is whatever it is, very realistic and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>uh able to articulate the problems. But yet they still

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<v Speaker 1>seem optimistic, even even in situations where they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be massive trade offs needed and there isn't a solution

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<v Speaker 1>that really solves everything. There's gonna be some some fallout

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<v Speaker 1>or some some hard, hard decisions made, they still seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be optimistic. And and I I think the difference

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<v Speaker 1>with those people it's optimism isn't on that everything's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be great optimism. I believe it comes down to

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<v Speaker 1>whether a person feels like they are in control of

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<v Speaker 1>whatever they can be in control of, right, like that

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<v Speaker 1>they are prepared with the skills, the knowledge, the abilities,

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<v Speaker 1>that they're prepared with those things to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>best take on whatever is about to happen, and equally

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<v Speaker 1>as equally as much they are able to articulate the

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<v Speaker 1>things that are out of their control and let go

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<v Speaker 1>of them. And and and that allows them to have

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<v Speaker 1>that optimism that doesn't let go of the realism, right

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<v Speaker 1>Because if you're optimistic and and it comes off as

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<v Speaker 1>like you have a lack of realism around the situation,

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<v Speaker 1>that could come off as like I'm in control of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this, right, But but you and I both

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<v Speaker 1>know when it comes to you know, business decisions and

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes you know, hard business decisions that evolve trade offs.

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<v Speaker 1>You you know very well as well as I do,

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<v Speaker 1>that that not everything is in our control, That there

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<v Speaker 1>are things that are made, decisions that are made at

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<v Speaker 1>higher pay grades than we are at UH, and that

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<v Speaker 1>we just have to deal with the fallout of UH

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of navigate those those.

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<v Speaker 2>Things as they happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But but if if I know, like on a very

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<v Speaker 1>on a very broad level, I'm working for a company

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<v Speaker 1>and it's going to go out of business, Okay, well

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<v Speaker 1>does that terrify me or not? I don't know. Do

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<v Speaker 1>I have a strong network and a good resume? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>have I am? I? Do I understand what my options are?

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<v Speaker 1>Do I know my own worth? If the answer is

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<v Speaker 1>yes to all that, then I can I'm more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to land well when the company goes out of business

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<v Speaker 1>if I don't. If I can't say all those things,

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<v Speaker 1>then the idea of my company going out of business

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<v Speaker 1>is terrifying. Right, And in order to be optimistic about it,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't mean that you think, oh, my company's not

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<v Speaker 1>going out of business. That's that's when the optimism turns

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<v Speaker 1>into the fantasy. It's when I don't need to make

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<v Speaker 1>my resume great and develop my network and make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that I have the right skills because my company is

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<v Speaker 1>just fine. That's when the optimism rises to the fantasy.

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<v Speaker 1>But optimism in the face of something difficult just means

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<v Speaker 1>do I can I convey to my people a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of calmness that comes from separating out the things I

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<v Speaker 1>can control from the things that I can't, and on

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<v Speaker 1>the things that I can control, have I taken the

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<v Speaker 1>necessary steps to make sure they are most likely to

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<v Speaker 1>end in my favor. I think that's really necessary if

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<v Speaker 1>you're a leader, to be able to do that, And

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<v Speaker 1>that's where you can kind of get people to come

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<v Speaker 1>along for the ride versus just like sitting there judging

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<v Speaker 1>you for not being realistic about the situation, or equally

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<v Speaker 1>as bad. If you come off as pessimistic about the situation,

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<v Speaker 1>then they might believe that you're not lying to them.

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<v Speaker 1>They might believe that you are, that your decisions are

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<v Speaker 1>rooted in reality. Oh, my company's going out of business.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna be destitute. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

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<v Speaker 1>I have nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>They might believe that what you're saying is true, but

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<v Speaker 1>good luck getting them to follow you if that's what

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<v Speaker 1>you're saying to them. Right, So, if you're hoping to

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<v Speaker 1>lead the team of people through a difficult time, then

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<v Speaker 1>going about it that way is equally detrimental to your

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<v Speaker 1>ability to lead them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, I think it's right.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's the more you're kind of talking through

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<v Speaker 3>that and I'm thinking about it, I actually think that

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<v Speaker 3>it's in.

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<v Speaker 2>It's in the.

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<v Speaker 3>Variety of how you connect with people and interact with

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<v Speaker 3>people as a leader, and like giving them and showing

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<v Speaker 3>them variety is actually what develops the element of authenticity

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<v Speaker 3>because like, you can be an optimistic person, you can

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<v Speaker 3>be very positive, you can see the world that way.

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<v Speaker 3>But if there's times when you're not like you, if

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<v Speaker 3>you don't show people when you're not a little bit,

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<v Speaker 3>or when you don't show people that maybe you have

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<v Speaker 3>a concern or like, while I'm optimistic that we'll get there,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm also frustrated on how we're being asked to do

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<v Speaker 3>this or what the hurdle is that's in front of us,

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<v Speaker 3>or whatever the case is, Like, if you don't give

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<v Speaker 3>people the variety aspect to say like, yeah, like I

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<v Speaker 3>am a positive person who sees and believes and are

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<v Speaker 3>ability to get this done. But I'm going to have

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<v Speaker 3>my moments, and you don't share those moments to a degree,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't have that ability to to adjust or to

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<v Speaker 3>to not just show one facet of who you are.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's probably what I was thinking about, was

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<v Speaker 3>like those human to be human, yeah, exactly, to be

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<v Speaker 3>human exactly, yeah, because like those that I think struggle

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<v Speaker 3>with it. I'm thinking about in my head, like who

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<v Speaker 3>those people are I've met over time, and I go like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>they really only show you one facet, yeah, and maybe

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<v Speaker 3>a slightly second one.

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<v Speaker 2>But like that, by only showing that, it makes.

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<v Speaker 3>It really hard to believe that there's a wholeness or

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<v Speaker 3>you know, to you like there's a human element, like

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<v Speaker 3>there are there are days when you show up not

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<v Speaker 3>that way, and that's okay, and you should. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think that when when you don't allow people to see

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<v Speaker 3>you as a whole, then it kind of creates that

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<v Speaker 3>like questioning of like, well, is this really who you are?

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<v Speaker 2>Right right?

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<v Speaker 1>There's there's there's We've talked about this in the past,

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<v Speaker 1>about this importance of authenticity, But but that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 1>that you're not on stage too right, Like if a

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<v Speaker 1>leader is always on stage, and I think a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people interpret that to mean that they have to

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<v Speaker 1>be this kind of like this rock, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>everything's great all the time. They can't show the vulnerability

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<v Speaker 1>or the weakness. And no on stage means that the

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<v Speaker 1>stage that you're on, the part that you've auditioned for,

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<v Speaker 1>is a part where you're auditioning to be a real person,

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<v Speaker 1>not a fake person. So authenticity, authenticity combined with having

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<v Speaker 1>to be on stage all the time means that what

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<v Speaker 1>you're being judged at while on stage is your authenticity,

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<v Speaker 1>not your positivity. Right, It's both. And the leaders that

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<v Speaker 1>I know who just really do a great job of

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<v Speaker 1>all always being positive, always being optimistic, not not ever

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<v Speaker 1>kind of letting the other side of them out a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit, many of them end up, you know, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of torpedoing their own career because something gets to them. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>Something eventually hits and all of the stuff that was

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<v Speaker 1>being pushed down for months or years comes to the surface.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not saying they you know, they blow up

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<v Speaker 1>at somebody and and and start you know, going up

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<v Speaker 1>in a blaze of glory. I just mean something comes

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<v Speaker 1>out a little a little line or something they say

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<v Speaker 1>or something that kind of completely destroys the facade that

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<v Speaker 1>they've been trying to build up over a period of

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<v Speaker 1>months or years, and and and it and it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of creeps out, and that that kind of kills their

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<v Speaker 1>entire ability to lead their team because now they're being

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<v Speaker 1>seen as also also that oh, you're not only you're

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<v Speaker 1>not this positive person, but also everything that we came

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<v Speaker 1>to know about you is fake. And so the best

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<v Speaker 1>way to not ever have that happen is to not

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<v Speaker 1>try to keep it from happening, to just be yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you just be yourself, that's great, as long

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<v Speaker 1>as who yourself is is an optimistic person. And if

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<v Speaker 1>you have a hard time doing that, you need to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of think about where that's rooted in, Like why

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<v Speaker 1>do you have a hard time being an optimistic person

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<v Speaker 1>in general? Why do you have a hard time separating

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<v Speaker 1>out the things you can control from the things you can't,

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<v Speaker 1>and then taking the steps to make sure that you

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<v Speaker 1>align your actions with the way that makes it most

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<v Speaker 1>likely to turn out in your favor. Not that you

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<v Speaker 1>believe with all your heart that it will turn out

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<v Speaker 1>in your favor, but that you believe that whatever the

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<v Speaker 1>outcome is, you won't look back on it and think

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<v Speaker 1>I could have done something differently, or I should have

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<v Speaker 1>been more prepared, or I should have done this differently

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<v Speaker 1>versus this. The idea is, when the chips have all fallen,

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<v Speaker 1>can you look back on it and think I did

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<v Speaker 1>everything that I could in order to make this turn

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<v Speaker 1>out the right way, and I conveyed that to my

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<v Speaker 1>people in a realistic way. And if the answer to

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<v Speaker 1>those things is both yes, then regardless of what happens,

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<v Speaker 1>you won't have degraded your ability to lead those people

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<v Speaker 1>and your ability to lead people in general.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. And with that it brings us to this

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<v Speaker 3>episode's womanute hack. But first off, your words from our sponsors, all.

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<v Speaker 1>Right for this episode is one minute hackers I want

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<v Speaker 1>you to do. When you're interacting with your people, the

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<v Speaker 1>key difference between coming off as optimistic or as living

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<v Speaker 1>in a fantasy land about what real life is or

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<v Speaker 1>what's what the actual things that are happening are are

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not you have the ability to validate the

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<v Speaker 1>concerns of the person you're talking to prior to moving forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when a person is comes off as that

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<v Speaker 1>drink the kool aid cheerleader kind of person. What happens

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<v Speaker 1>is someone areulates something that's a problem or an issue

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<v Speaker 1>that they're trying to deal with, and the response never

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<v Speaker 1>addresses that thing that they brought up. It never validates

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<v Speaker 1>that concern. It glosses over it from a standpoint of

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<v Speaker 1>just be positive. Oh, you'll be fine, we'll get through

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<v Speaker 1>it together, right, And that doesn't actually tell a person

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<v Speaker 1>that their concerns are valid. It actually tells the person

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<v Speaker 1>their concerns are not valid. You're saying to them, you're

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<v Speaker 1>wrong to be concerned about this, but I'm not backing

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<v Speaker 1>it up with anything. The right thing to do. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're a leader and you're trying to convey a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of optimism, it starts with validating the concern that the

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<v Speaker 1>other person has, because if they're really articulating it and

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<v Speaker 1>they really believe that to be true, there's a reason

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<v Speaker 1>why they're saying that, And so meeting them where they

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<v Speaker 1>are and kind of validating why they feel that concern

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<v Speaker 1>and then helping them get to a place where they

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<v Speaker 1>feel like they have more control over the situation will

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<v Speaker 1>make them be less likely to be pessimistic about it

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<v Speaker 1>and you'll be more likely to be seen as the

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<v Speaker 1>optimistic leader, not as the fantasy land cheerleader type of leader.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think it's a great call out.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that it's like there's been many times in

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<v Speaker 3>my career where I've rolled my eyes at that fantasy

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<v Speaker 3>land like raw rah, everything is always positive cheerleader and

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<v Speaker 3>like look, while there's an element of good energy that

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<v Speaker 3>you can get from that, I also think that if

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<v Speaker 3>you're truly talking about like being authentic and being someone

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<v Speaker 3>who wants to have a positive influence on others, you

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<v Speaker 3>can definitely show up in a place where your energy

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<v Speaker 3>is contagious and there's an element of fun. There's an

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<v Speaker 3>element of kind of like looseness and like willingness to

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<v Speaker 3>be you know, silly, or to to get people, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>to to level up their energy in a good and

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<v Speaker 3>positive way without being the everything is awesome, you know

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<v Speaker 3>uh style of leader.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that for me is actually the truest.

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<v Speaker 3>Test to optimism is saying I'm optimistic because I know

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<v Speaker 3>we can do this. I'm optimistic because we can have

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<v Speaker 3>fun and work hard at the same time. I'm optimistic

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<v Speaker 3>because we have plenty of things to celebrate and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>optimistic because I know that when we apply ourselves to

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<v Speaker 3>whatever we're working on, we're going.

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<v Speaker 2>To find success. And I don't have to be in

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<v Speaker 2>that rah rah rah, Let's go team. We can do

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<v Speaker 2>this if we all work hard. You know, like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a place for that.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think that if you're really trying to show

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<v Speaker 3>up as yourself and show up in a positive way,

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<v Speaker 3>I think for me, that's the way to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I completely agree with that. And and what it

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<v Speaker 1>comes down to is if if if the people you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking to believe that you've heard their concerns prior to

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<v Speaker 1>showing your optimism, if they truly believe that you understand

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<v Speaker 1>where they're coming from, and you haven't just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>glossed over it because it's the elephant in the room

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<v Speaker 1>that you don't want to address. You're just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>ignoring what they've said because you want to move on

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<v Speaker 1>to the positivity that you are so good at doing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when it will come off as inauthentic. But addressing

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<v Speaker 1>their concerns from a standpoint of that that if they're

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<v Speaker 1>articulating them, then they're real to them. They might be

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<v Speaker 1>real to you. You might not agree with them, but

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that they are bringing it up means that

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<v Speaker 1>it is real to them in that moment, and to

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<v Speaker 1>to ignore it or to not address it, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't agree with it, you can ask more questions. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's let's dive more into that. Like you, you're you're

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<v Speaker 1>clearly concerned about this happening. Maybe I'm missing something? What

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<v Speaker 1>what are you thinking right now that maybe I'm missing

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like, be open to this idea that that

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<v Speaker 1>person is not just right about the about their beliefs,

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<v Speaker 1>but that you're wrong. And you might be wrong, but

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<v Speaker 1>chances are just operating that way will get them to

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<v Speaker 1>open up about what their concerns are and that will

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<v Speaker 1>tell you a lot more about what they need to

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<v Speaker 1>hear in the moment to be able to let go

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<v Speaker 1>of those concerns. Whereas if you just tell them, tell

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<v Speaker 1>them to let go of those concerns without addressing it

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<v Speaker 1>to begin with, or the reasons why they have them,

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<v Speaker 1>no one's going to do that. They're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>let go of their concerns. They're going to hold onto them,

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<v Speaker 1>and you won't be equipped to deal with them as

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<v Speaker 1>a leader because you never stopped to ask what they were,

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<v Speaker 1>or why the.

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<v Speaker 3>Person has them absolutely and with that it brings us

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of this episode, this is hack your leadership.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you

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<v Speaker 2>all next time.