WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:05.599 I'm Ali. 2 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.320 I came out after twenty years of marriage and I 3 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:09.359 have three kids. 4 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.359 I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came 5 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.000 out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage. 6 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:19.239 This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles 7 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:20.199 and victories that. 8 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.399 Come with it when coming out feels like the end 9 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:24.920 of the world, but it's really just the beginning. 10 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:38.200 This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles, 11 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:42.479 where we are super pumped to have doctor Lorie Sulpisio 12 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:45.920 with us again. Thank you so much for being willing 13 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:47.359 to come back, doctor Laurie. 14 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:48.960 Thank you for having me. 15 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:49.679 Yeah. 16 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.520 It feels like even in that time period, we've had 17 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:54.840 a million relationship things come up. 18 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:02.000 So that's busy woman over here. This feels like a 19 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:02.600 good time. 20 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:06.159 How have you been, I've been well, I've been well. 21 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.719 It's like it's a you know, come of the end 22 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:10.239 of that academic year right now, and so just kind 23 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:14.480 of the excitement for summer and you know, warmer weather coming. 24 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:16.640 I think it's good. Everyone and everyone on my side 25 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:17.400 here is excited. 26 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:18.079 Yeah. 27 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:20.400 No, will your kids be home this summer? 28 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:26.760 Yeah, so my my football player on the East Coast 29 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:28.400 will come home for a little bit and he's got 30 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:30.560 to go back, you know, to he'll be he'll be 31 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:32.439 back for going on a big family vacation to Italy. 32 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.920 So it's super exciting all night. And I have the 33 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:39.439 only daughter, but all the nephews, so there's nine grandkids, 34 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:42.280 my sisters, you know, my parents were all going to Italy. 35 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.200 You know, it's aligned because the kids are getting older, 36 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:47.200 so it's harder to schedule with them. But yeah, so 37 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:48.799 Ione's really looking forward to this trip. 38 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:49.920 It's very white. 39 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:54.319 Lotus of you guys, the Italy adventure. 40 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.400 Right, you need a reality show to follow you? 41 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:02.439 Oh right, yeah? Maybe, yeah, for sure, we'll stream something. 42 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:03.719 We'll see let's. 43 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:06.280 Dive in because we know we don't have you too long, 44 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.680 so we have a few topics that we. 45 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.240 Want to get into. I guess, Melissa, do you want 46 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:11.360 to introduce the first one? 47 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.520 Yeah? 48 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.000 Well, the one that I was really kind of thinking 49 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.439 about recently is that trusting your own intuition. You know, 50 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:23.479 I think really just as we get older, and especially 51 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.400 with how like therapies we've all become, it becomes this 52 00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:28.719 like battle between your. 53 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:30.319 Brain, your heart, and your gut. 54 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:34.199 And really, I think most of the time my gut 55 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:37.759 is correct in the situations, but I don't trust it. 56 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:40.080 You know, I went my whole life without doing therapy 57 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:43.599 up until my late thirties, and so it's it's become 58 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:46.599 like now I have like these words to therapize what 59 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:50.759 I'm feeling, but then I'm having a hard time carrying 60 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.000 out what needs to happen. 61 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:55.919 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think, you know, part of 62 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.639 it is, well, our situation is a great thing, and 63 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:01.639 I think we sometimes need to listen to it. I 64 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:04.240 think what maybe has happened though, is that because of 65 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.479 you know, therapy speakers everywhere, and we've got all this 66 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:12.199 information that now, like we second guests, we second guess ourselves, 67 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:15.240 wondering is this narcissistic behavior? Is this god to pendit behaviors? 68 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:16.879 This pass the best of them by being gas lit? 69 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.879 It's like, oh my gosh. Yes. And not to dismiss 70 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.319 those behaviors, I mean they are real, they're problematic, but 71 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.960 I think we've amplified some of the tendencies and put 72 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:32.840 and projected them onto people, and now we're almost hyper suspicious. 73 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.439 You know, every little thing, you know, isn't gaslighting, Every 74 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:40.439 little kind of selfish choice isn't narcissistic behavior. I mean, 75 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:42.560 you know, it's like I think we need to relax 76 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.280 a little bit in terms of all the second guessing. 77 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.000 But then also there's a way of checking our own 78 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.159 story and our own sort of meaning making with what's 79 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.919 driving our intuition, you know, And what I mean by 80 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:59.960 that is do we have a realistic sense of rel 81 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.840 relationship of our self of the other person? You know, 82 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:08.159 Like are we basing this intuition and the trust on 83 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.520 kind of accuracy or on you know, what's real or 84 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:13.879 has it become kind of a fantasy for what we 85 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:14.599 hope to have? 86 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.480 Yeah, Like how do you do that? 87 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.319 Like that sometimes feels hard because it's like, even with 88 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:22.560 one person, I will own one moment I feel like 89 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.839 the data is telling me all this positive, great stuff, 90 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:28.920 and then it's like one thing happens and I'm like, 91 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.399 oh no, there we go again, Like it's the data 92 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.439 is contradicting what I thought, and then that snowballs into 93 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:37.360 my new reality. 94 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.839 Yeah, so I wonder, though, is that really intuition? Because 95 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:43.199 I would say your intuition or your inner knowing is 96 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.279 almost more energetic. You know, It's like this kind of 97 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:49.600 you enter a space and you immediately like, oh, we connect, 98 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.079 like I just feel it, you know, whether it's romantic 99 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:54.319 or platonic, just this is this is a good person. 100 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.120 This is a person I can hang out with. I 101 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.360 like their energy, you know. And then there might be 102 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.720 somebody that you meet and you're just like like, you know, 103 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.399 Spidey sense is just telling me there's just something about 104 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:06.600 them to me. That's that kind of energetic inner knowing. 105 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.399 So the things I think what you're describing is where 106 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.160 kind of the cognitive I mean, this is where our 107 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:15.319 cognitions are maybe taking over the thoughts that we're having 108 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.680 about one thing goes wrong that means the whole thing 109 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:22.759 is going to become a disaster. They do one little thing, 110 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.199 you know, they don't call me back, they look a 111 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:27.920 little anxious, they're a little avoidant. Oh my gosh, they're 112 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.120 always going to be insecure and come at me, or 113 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.360 oh my gosh, they're gonna withdraw every time. It's hard. 114 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:35.639 That may not be true, right, So part of it, 115 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.759 I think is checking our thoughts when we have one 116 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.079 of those moments and wonder, what are we thinking about 117 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.759 this situation and are we spinning it out into something 118 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:45.680 that it really may not even be. 119 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:47.040 Yeah, it's a good point. 120 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:49.079 I like what you said about the energy because it 121 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:51.920 is true, like if you're just like walk into a 122 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.519 dinner party. I've had situations Melissa's usually with me, where 123 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.160 I've walked in and said we went to a brunch together. 124 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:01.360 This wasn't even not long ago. I walked out of 125 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.560 the brunch. I looked at her and said, that was 126 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.879 fucking awful. My nervous system is wrecked, like I can't 127 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:09.800 sit with thee like that was so bad for me, 128 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:11.879 Like I did not enjoy that, and she was kind 129 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:13.439 of like, yeah, it was a little off for me too. 130 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.399 And then I've had other situations where we've had something 131 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:18.519 happen and I'm like, that was a blast, Like I 132 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.639 felt myself. I felt, you're right, like I don't know 133 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.560 that we pay it. I go to my head, what 134 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.240 are the facts? What are the facts versus like what 135 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:31.279 has be Yeah, and even interesting, like what are the facts? 136 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.639 It's so funny because when I work with couples, they'll 137 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.319 have a very different set of facts. Yeah, have the 138 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.319 same situation. Part of it is like, of course, there's 139 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.160 the time of day that it happened, where were we 140 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.279 what was said. I mean, so there could be some facts, right, 141 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.600 but then we fill in the blanks, which is, well, 142 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:52.639 well you were being flirty. It's like, well is that 143 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:55.800 a fact or is that an opinion about an interpretation 144 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.959 for how somebody sees somebody's behavior. Right, So I think 145 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.680 part of it is even things in our head. We 146 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.439 think it's facts, but we're filling in the blanks with 147 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:07.319 our own experience, our own interpretation of the situation, and 148 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.120 then we're making meaning of that. And if our tendency 149 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.600 is to make meaning like from a scarcity model or 150 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.040 a fear based model, we're immediately going to run and say, oh, 151 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.720 this is catastrophic, this is going to be terrible. Oh 152 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.360 I knew this all along, right, And we're thinking it's 153 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.920 the gut, but like maybe it's not. Maybe it's our 154 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.680 our thoughts run wild, you know. 155 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.879 Yeah, And that's so interesting because that's something I learned 156 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:31.800 like in the last like year or two of like 157 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:34.360 really because I would look at things like a situation 158 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.839 where it's like from my perspective and my perspective only 159 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:41.720 and not really considering like how could my person feel 160 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:43.240 x y Z way about this? 161 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:45.560 Like that was just you know, that. 162 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.639 Wasn't a big deal, not really taking a step back 163 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.279 and being like, oh, but like this is how they felt, 164 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:53.480 and they're trying to tell me that, but I can 165 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.959 only see like my viewpoint on it, and it's it's 166 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.560 so hard to like kind of step out, step back 167 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.759 and really interpret and feel how they were feeling. 168 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:07.000 For sure, and to recognize, like when we talk about 169 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.720 kind of later in life or older lesbians, or being 170 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.160 later and older in relationship having a new relationship, we're 171 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:17.040 bringing everything with us, you know, decades of stuff, so 172 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:19.959 that one moment and you might be thinking, how can 173 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.560 you feel this way about that? Like that was not 174 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:24.959 a big deal, and they for them without even knowing it, Well, 175 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.839 that was every moment where somebody didn't pay attention to me, 176 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.560 or you know, I didn't get the love that I wanted, 177 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.559 and so it's so much more than just that moment. 178 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.919 Often but we get so cut up in the details 179 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.600 of the present moment and what it means for us 180 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:43.440 that we don't realize that actually the person is just 181 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.879 stuck in a feeling of pain from this situation, but 182 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.399 really ignited a whole lot of other feelings from the past, 183 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:52.879 and if we could have that kind of empathy, then 184 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:55.399 we'd be able to connect so much, you know, more 185 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.519 deeply with each other and with a lot of patience. 186 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:01.000 And I think it is like complicated. 187 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:04.320 Like I had a situation recently where it's like to 188 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:07.080 your point, when you come up and you're now later 189 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.879 in life, you've got all these sets of circumstances, whether 190 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:15.000 it's an ex husband, children, friendships, and then you're in 191 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.159 a relationship and maybe the person that you're in the 192 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:23.159 relationship feels really wronged in some way, but it's like 193 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.240 you're grasping for but all these other things that I have. 194 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:29.919 To do are also true versus like when. 195 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.559 You're twenty five and falling in love, there's nobody else 196 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.279 pulling at me versus now, it's like all these things 197 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.279 you're balancing, you can look like a real jerk even 198 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.080 when you're just honoring this other set of things. 199 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.399 That you have to do exactly. And then my something, 200 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:46.639 my imagining is that person who kind of is looking 201 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.120 like a jerk is feeling like, but I'm doing so much, 202 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.360 you know all that I'm doing right, I'm here, here, 203 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.519 and here, And that's part of the reality, and that's 204 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:57.919 where we need to, you know, be open and honest 205 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.360 with each other, but also have the space, you know, 206 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:04.200 in latitude kind of in that relationship to say, Okay, 207 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:06.000 so you do have your kids and your job, and 208 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:08.600 you're taking care of your elderly parent and you've got 209 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.200 to you know, manage your ex and that relationship and 210 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:13.559 all the things. But I would really love more time 211 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.440 with you, Like I'm feeling missed. I don't feel like 212 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:19.039 I'm you know, the second most important thing or equal 213 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.559 important with your kids or whatever. Like I would love 214 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.159 to feel like I'm more important to you. And like 215 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.600 if we can get to the need underneath some of 216 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.679 those sort of superficial conflicts, we can resolve and realize 217 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.159 we're actually just saying we want each other more, we 218 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.080 want to love each other more, we want the space 219 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.559 to be together more. It comes from a place of 220 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:39.840 tenderness and love, but we don't hear it because we're 221 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:41.440 stuck in the tension and the friction. 222 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:45.039 And then it's like everything files into that there it 223 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:49.919 goes again, like now this other thing happened at just snowballs. 224 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:52.759 Yep, here's that narrative. This is it right? 225 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:55.600 And I think oftentimes like if I start to feel 226 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.159 like or if I guess too, like I'm so through 227 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:00.799 all these years, becomes so I. 228 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:03.600 Don't want to say prideful, but like your ego does. 229 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:07.240 If you don't feel reassured, I start to just be like, oh, 230 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.799 then I'm I'm not going to try, and then it's 231 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:11.200 like a harder thing. 232 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:13.720 Yeah, And I think in those cases, you know, it's 233 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.720 like one person isn't feeling reassured and isn't feeling seen right, 234 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:19.840 and isn't feeling met, But then the other person is 235 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.720 also over there, not feeling reassured and not feeling met, 236 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.840 and that ends up being like it's as you said, 237 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:27.279 it's so complicated and nuanced because we get in these 238 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.559 situations where both people are saying the same thing. You know, 239 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:34.279 I don't feel seen, I feel dismissed. It comes down 240 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:37.519 to these sort of core ideas, but it manifests as 241 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:39.720 you're not doing enough for me. You're always so needy, 242 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:41.519 you don't understand all that I have going on in 243 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:43.120 my life. Well, why don't you pay attention to me 244 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:45.039 the way you pay attention to your work. Why don't 245 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:46.240 you see him trying to work so we can go 246 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:48.080 on vacation you know what I mean. It's like, right 247 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.000 both you're active, you're actually advocating for the relationship but 248 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.720 doing it differently, But then the other person can't see 249 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.200 that because they're stuck in their own deficit totally. 250 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.159 Like you know, kind of what Ali was saying about, 251 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.159 Like we just have such busier lives than we did 252 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:04.960 in our twenties. 253 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.639 So it's like dating is just so much different now. 254 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.120 Like if I were to try to go on a 255 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:13.879 date now, I'm like I can maybe plan. 256 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:19.440 For it in like three weeks, you know, and it's like, you. 257 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:22.200 Know that it makes me seem like I'm I'm not 258 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:25.039 ready and available or whatever. But it's like, no, like 259 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.279 I've got like all these other priorities that really matter 260 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.919 a lot to me. And but we've also Ali and 261 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.039 I have talked about, you know, like decentering the relationship 262 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:35.360 aspect in our lives. 263 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:36.000 You know. 264 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:39.039 I think that that really helps kind of almost bring 265 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.159 like a calmness to me to be like, you know what, 266 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:45.039 that's not my priority right now, and that's okay. I 267 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:49.840 want to focus on career and friendships and these Yeah, 268 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.559 my kids are you know, flock is ticking. My son's 269 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.360 about to graduate from fifth grade, like I. 270 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:56.799 You know, all those things. 271 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:00.960 Yeah, I mean, I think and for women, especially whether 272 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:05.080 you're in a queer relationship, at our relationship, it's really 273 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:08.600 shifted as we've leaned into career and we've realized that 274 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.919 we can have a career and still mother in a 275 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.840 badass an effective way with or without a partner in 276 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:19.159 many cases. And I know there's a piece of privilege 277 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.120 to that, right, I mean, not everybody can do that 278 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:24.600 so easily, and not that even it's easy in any case, 279 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.480 but there's this now change in the narrative for women 280 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:30.000 where it's like, yeah, you can be a single and 281 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.879 professional mom, you know, a single mom who's a professional, 282 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:34.559 and you don't have to have a partner, and we 283 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.519 don't have to be defined by our relationship anymore. So 284 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.919 it kind of opens up possibilities for relationships not to 285 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.360 be because there's a have to, like it may be 286 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:44.960 used to be you know and are kind of for 287 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.799 the boomers, it's like you had to have that kind 288 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:50.600 of relationship want to And so I think that also 289 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.080 it's like, look, if you don't check these boxes for me, 290 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.480 like I don't need you, right, So anyways, I think 291 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.000 it is really great for the individual woman to be like, Okay, 292 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.320 I can focus on my kids, in my career and 293 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.919 my friendships and I'm good. I'm fulfilled. On the other hand, 294 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.279 you know, it might put this bar for the relationships 295 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.200 like a little bit high, where now we're like, look, 296 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:14.679 I do not need you in my life. I got 297 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.600 so it puts an interesting stress on the relationship from 298 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:19.679 that standpoint. 299 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:23.720 I have actually even heard some of our friends verbalized. 300 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.559 If you're not bringing X, Y and Z, I don't 301 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.879 need you at all, because I've already I'm happy on 302 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.799 my own and I'm thinking, like I am. I'm not lonely, 303 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.720 and I am happy on my own, but I still 304 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:37.639 do want a partner. 305 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:38.720 I want to get married. 306 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.399 I want that. Yeah. Yeah, and it brings something to 307 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.679 our lives. Yeah, we find that, right, companion, It really 308 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.759 does bring a lot of benefit to our lives in 309 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.799 a fun way. I think the key is being able 310 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.639 to kind of negotiate and or be clear about, you know, 311 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:58.240 what is important to us and how do we want 312 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:00.720 to set up sort of our independence self and not 313 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:05.080 lose the me as we co construct the wei, Because 314 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.440 that's a really delicate balance, especially for those of us 315 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:12.080 that are also mothers, also have professional careers and want 316 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:13.840 to be able to show up and be a good partner. 317 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:17.840 Does blend We talk about that too. Like women, it's 318 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.200 like if you're dating someone, they sort of automatically start 319 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:25.080 to fall into your community, and then it is like 320 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:29.519 you sort of do lose the me sometimes because it 321 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:32.360 becomes so blurred, Whereas when you're with men, there's this 322 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:34.679 natural buffer that kind. 323 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:35.600 Of keeps them at bay. 324 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.000 Like how do women like do you have recommendations for that? 325 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.480 Like how you maintain some sovereignty? 326 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.759 Yeah, I think understanding the friendship piece. You know, it's 327 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.519 an interesting one because again, you know, the our lovers 328 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.200 are the same people that are friends, and so it 329 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.799 does blur the lines and can make it difficult. And 330 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.600 then when you find a partner, you're super excited to 331 00:15:57.639 --> 00:15:59.159 go out with all of your friends, a bunch of 332 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.840 women friends like, let's this is so fun, and so 333 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.919 you often then bring your partner along with your friendships. Right, 334 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.720 So then the partner and which is great in the beginning, 335 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:10.759 until then all of a sudden you're like, WHOA, I 336 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.360 just want some independent time. And so I think it 337 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.399 is really important to think about what are your individual 338 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:18.919 hobbies that you like to do by yourself, Who are 339 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.919 the people? What relationships are just yours that you get 340 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:24.960 to sit and talk about your life and your partner 341 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.320 for that matter, and know that they can hear you 342 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:29.919 and still love her and still love you, but you 343 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:32.120 get a little bit of that separation. I think having 344 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:36.279 individual hobbies, having individual time is really important, and it 345 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.080 preserves the relationship. It's not because the relationship is bad. 346 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.559 It actually is going to preserve the longevity of the 347 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.399 relationship if we keep our sense of self and then 348 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.480 also really contribute and bring that strong self to the 349 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:49.679 we to the partnership. 350 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:51.799 Yeah, And I think that's something like a lot of 351 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.519 people don't really even realize that they're doing, like the 352 00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.039 enmeshment that happens so quickly and it's you know, and 353 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.279 next thing you know, it's. 354 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.360 A year down the line. 355 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:04.480 You're like, hold on, Like I realize I haven't done 356 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.680 anything just like myself or with my friends without you. 357 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.000 And then it's like it feels like this dig to 358 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:12.039 be like now I want. 359 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.799 To spend time alone. 360 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:13.960 You can't come. 361 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:14.720 Yeah. 362 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.400 Yeah, So again, those individual relationships that you have before 363 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.000 the relationship certainly, but you know you want to integrate, 364 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.480 but go out every other week, or do you know, 365 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:29.519 go on a hike just your friends, go on a 366 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.000 hike with just your siblings, your family, you know, your coworkers, 367 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.319 go to that work function that is the fun, you know, 368 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.920 whatever it might be, do those things alone. It also 369 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:42.119 then sets up the excitement to then do something together. Right, 370 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.039 it's okay. Then we get excited to do something together, 371 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:47.799 not like, oh, here we go the same old, same old. 372 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.279 It creates that excitement to see each other again and 373 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.640 maybe plan something unique and fun for the couple, because 374 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.359 you know you've got these unique and fun things as 375 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.359 an individual as well. 376 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.319 It is that's interesting when you first get in a relationship. 377 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.960 I see this in our friend group. It's like you 378 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.720 want that partner. Like what I've noticed, it's almost like 379 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.440 you need the friend group to like witness your new relationship, 380 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.920 Like you can't wait to be out with this person, 381 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.680 and then you're not really with your friends at all. 382 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.599 You're just heavily focused on that person, but you're still 383 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:20.599 out with the group. 384 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:22.279 Like I do. 385 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.079 Feel like there is a sense at the beginning of 386 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:28.759 a relationship to like have it witnessed or like it's 387 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.119 like you have to explode on the scene with this person. 388 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:32.559 Everybody, look at how cute we are. 389 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.279 Look how cute we are. 390 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.599 Yeah, I mean I think it's interesting. I mean I 391 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:42.200 guess maybe there's a part in that in feeling a 392 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:46.160 lot of pride, you know, yeah, help my hopefully healthy pride, 393 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.200 in wanting to sort of be in a good partnership 394 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.200 and be able to share this love, you know with everybody, 395 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.759 like look at us, you know, or write in this relationship. 396 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.440 I think there is obviously the shadow side of that, 397 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.680 which is this relationship kind of more of a performative 398 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.519 thing somehow fulfilling a part of you. You know that 399 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.319 really the relationships to fill right. 400 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.480 So that you haven't been seen and now you need 401 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:14.119