WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:17.719 Coming to you from the dining room table at East 2 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:22.079 Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special edition of Full Circle 3 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:28.120 the podcast. Today we're visiting with Dan Rothenberg and Eva Steinmetz. 4 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:31.559 They are the co artistic directors of Pig Iron Theater 5 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:35.240 Company in Philadelphia. Dan is the co writer and co 6 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:40.479 director of a new play, Franklin's Key, that will be 7 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:43.799 at Plays and Players June eleventh to June twenty eighth, 8 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:49.039 and Eva Steinmetz is also co director. I'm your host 9 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:50.560 Martha Madrigal. 10 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:51.920 And I'm your host Charles Tyson Junior. 11 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:54.439 Welcome to the Full Circle Table. 12 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.119 Hi guys, thank you for having us. 13 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:00.640 Thanks so much for having us. 14 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:05.439 It's exciting to get to talk to you. I just 15 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:09.920 said to you both off camera that I've been aware 16 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:17.680 of blissfully aware of Pig Iron for ever and your 17 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:23.359 stellar reputation in theater and the Philly arts scene in general, 18 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.000 but I haven't gotten to see anything live, and I 19 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:29.359 always here about it after the fact and everyone's like, 20 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.079 oh my god, I've never seen anything like that before 21 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.480 in my life, and I'm like, I want to go. 22 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.480 To We're excited to have you. 23 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:40.079 Thank you. Yeah, this time we're going, Yeah, we are, 24 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:42.159 and we love plays and players. 25 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:43.920 So this is a little bit different. 26 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:44.280 Yeah. 27 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.200 Normally we see a show and then we talk about 28 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:50.599 the show because that, you know, this just seems to 29 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.359 be how it works out. But we get to talk 30 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.280 about the show beforehand, and so this is fun, so 31 00:01:56.359 --> 00:02:00.680 you can introduce us to what's going on here. Was 32 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.719 Franklin's Key based on another piece? Dan? Did I read that? 33 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:06.359 Was there something smaller or. 34 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:10.599 This is No, It's been in development for quite a 35 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.240 long time. I mean, it's interesting what you said, Charles 36 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:16.800 about I do feel like, you know, we make usually 37 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:19.599 one new work a year, and we're almost always at 38 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:24.639 the Philadelphia Fringe festivals. Your experience is not uncommon. It's like, 39 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:27.800 oh the fringe, Oh what happened. We're not like a 40 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:30.560 theater company that's usually doing well. You can just see 41 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:33.599 us in another three months because we make all original 42 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:43.360 work and this piece is a little bit of a 43 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:47.319 pivot for us in terms of, you know, being associated 44 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:50.000 with the fringe, being associated with experimental work. 45 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:52.240 Franklin's Key is. 46 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:56.000 Not based on any existing storyline or anything, but it 47 00:02:56.039 --> 00:03:02.159 is inspired by so many any movies of the nineteen 48 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.520 eighties in a way, it's reminiscence of Stranger Things, but 49 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:12.319 translated for the stage interest, Stranger Things is so pulling 50 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:16.080 on those Spielberg strings from the eighties. Were definitely inspired 51 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:20.919 by the Goonies, by Back to the Future, and then 52 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:26.400 also inspired by certain kinds of sci fi fantasy, like 53 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:31.360 the Golden Compass, where you have a city that's real, 54 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:38.240 like Harry Potter's London or in Golden Compass Oxford, but 55 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:43.360 there's a sort of fantasy city that's an alternate reality 56 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:45.960 that's projected on top of the real city. And we 57 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.960 wanted to do that with our hometown, Philly. 58 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.919 Interesting, Philly is often an alternate reality, though, I mean, 59 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:58.400 you don't always have to reach far. 60 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:06.360 When you said it, it clicked. Yeah, You guys do 61 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:11.080 typically just debut for the Fringe, which makes sense considering 62 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:12.360 the type of things that you do. 63 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.319 That's what I think I was Was there something in 64 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:18.560 this to the Fringe or did I just make that up? 65 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.839 So we as we were working on this piece about 66 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.399 Ben Franklin, I call it like the family friendly sci 67 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:31.319 fi Ben Franklin Show. Okay, and I can tell you 68 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.800 the basic logline in a second, But we realized that 69 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:41.160 the semi Quin Centennial was coming up, and we said, oh, well, 70 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.560 maybe this can be kind of our entry into the 71 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.959 city's festivities for the semi Quin Centennial. But the show 72 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.720 we're imagining was so big and has special effects that 73 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.800 we've never done before. We should premiere it in the 74 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.639 summer before and see what we can do and how 75 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.639 we can work out the kinks and the figure out 76 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:05.240 the video design and the magic design, and so even 77 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.959 and I are excited going into this that we have 78 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.600 so much groundwork laid. We still think of it as 79 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:14.680 a new play, but there's just a lot of technical 80 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:18.720 elements that we really needed to take time to figure 81 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:25.160 out quickly. The story of the play, it starts with 82 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.879 this little anecdote about Ben Franklin, which is that from 83 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.439 the biography, a little true detail that in the War 84 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:39.160 of Independence, the British were afraid that Ben Franklin could 85 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.279 control the weather and that he would use this kind 86 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.680 of quasi magical power against them. That was like a 87 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:50.079 rumor that was filtering around, And this is a show 88 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:53.160 that imagines what if that were true? What if Ben 89 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.800 Franklin really did have secret technologies that were centuries ahead 90 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.959 of their time and They're actually being maintained in a 91 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.600 kind of clockwork underneath the landmarks of Philadelphia that we 92 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:10.600 know so well, so City Hall, the Wanamaker Organ, the PMA, 93 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.439 the Liberty Bell. What if these are all if you 94 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.839 go into the tunnels, into this hidden Philadelphia, there's a 95 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:23.399 secret society trying to maintain this secret technology. And then 96 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:27.519 these two teenage prodigies sort of stumble. That's how it's 97 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.600 sort of like goonies. They stumble into the mystery, you know, 98 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:34.319 they stumble into the mystery of the new Promethean society, 99 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.720 this struggle for power and will the technology be used 100 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:42.360 for good or for evil? As they wind their way 101 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:43.680 through the mystery of the show. 102 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.319 And you can fit that in plays and players. 103 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:53.160 We use every square inch of plays and players. It 104 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:59.560 is amazing, Like backstage, there's no room. We have used 105 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:04.120 really every square inch, every pipe, every dressing room. There 106 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:05.879 is no unused space in the theater. 107 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:07.600 I love that. 108 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:08.920 That literally immersive. 109 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.800 So think clearly, you had to co sign here, talk 110 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:15.600 to us about it. 111 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.959 Had to co sign on the premise. 112 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:23.839 This is it's wild. I'm excited, more excited now. I 113 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:24.480 had no idea. 114 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:30.680 Yeah, I think it's so fun. And so I joined 115 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.920 the pig In Theater Company in twenty twenty three as 116 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:38.240 an artistic producer and just this year became co artistic director. 117 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.079 So my role on the project last year when it 118 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:45.720 when it first went up, was really as a producer, 119 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:51.279 as a helper, facilitator, keeping the train on the tracks. 120 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:55.360 And one of the lessons that we learned last year 121 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:58.120 was that it being so big and there being so 122 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:02.560 many technical components that actually Dan and I sharing some 123 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:06.680 of the directing would probably set all of us up 124 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.040 for more success because there's just so much to keep 125 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:14.439 track of. So I'm coming into this not as somebody 126 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.399 who's been shepherding it for many many years like Dan has, 127 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:20.720 as both a writer and a director, but I'm coming 128 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.279 in as somebody who got to watch audiences fall in 129 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:28.399 love with it last year, and now I get to 130 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.759 have fun with everyone. I get to be in the 131 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.440 rehearsal and play with these characters that I really fell 132 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:40.840 in love with, and I think, yeah, the ensemble there's 133 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:44.879 ten actors, and it really shows off a lot of 134 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:50.360 the Philly performing scene. There's a lot of different theater 135 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.360 companies and different performers who are represented on the stage, 136 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.360 and I have so much affection for all of them, 137 00:08:57.399 --> 00:08:59.759 and I have so much affection for this community, and 138 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.360 I think the show does a really good job of 139 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:04.360 kind of showcasing their skills. 140 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:05.519 Oh, I love that. 141 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:11.960 That's amazing. And hearing the synopsis, it also sounds like 142 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:16.440 a movie I haven't seen, but National Treasure, right. 143 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.519 I meant to say National Treasure. We're like, what do 144 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:21.879 we say, like the Goonies. 145 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.000 Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, which is not a movie, 146 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.440 it's the Broadway show National Treasure. Yeah, our kind of 147 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:30.679 reference points. 148 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:33.799 Show that's crazy but better. I'm just gonna go but 149 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:34.639 better but better? 150 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:36.559 Oh definitely, yeah, definitely. 151 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.759 You can't really mention Harry Potter to a trans person 152 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.600 these days without the hair on the back of my neck. 153 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:46.519 So I'm just better but. 154 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:49.879 Better, better by virtue, not queer, more fun. 155 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.799 Queer more exactly. I just had to do that better 156 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:55.519 queer and. 157 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.600 More fun, better, queer, more fun. 158 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:00.399 I'm surprised you don't have that on it. 159 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:06.360 I know. So, when based on everything that I know 160 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:10.919 of Pig Iron and the synopsis of this show included, 161 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:16.279 when we sit down to discuss the new project, do 162 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.279 we just take seven hits of acid and then talk 163 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:26.440 like I don't because pig Iron is crazy in the 164 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.440 best possible way, and because like I said, everything that 165 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.679 I've ever heard is prefaced by I've never seen anything 166 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:36.440 like it before. 167 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:39.279 That's really amazing, That's great. 168 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.759 I mean, I do think that our mantra, We've had 169 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:47.120 a few different ones, but we say there really is 170 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:50.519 no house style, and we want to reinvent ourselves with 171 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:55.720 each production, and we work really closely with ensembles of 172 00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:00.639 actors kind of creating a style that is is unique 173 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:01.440 to each production. 174 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.399 And so we kind of start. 175 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.960 Each each process saying well is this a downbeat, mumble 176 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.279 style or is this a very articulated. 177 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:13.639 Physical and visual style. 178 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:17.960 Is this a body burlesque style? 179 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.279 And trying to move everybody? 180 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:22.639 You know? 181 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.159 I think a criticism that we where we apply to 182 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.080 ourselves is like are they in the same play? 183 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:28.679 You Know? 184 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.320 Often I go to a play and I'm like, well, 185 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:30.879 I really like. 186 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.399 This person, but I'm not sure they're in the same 187 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:34.039 play as everybody else, right, And. 188 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.919 So that's something that we really care about, is making 189 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:42.120 a complete world and reinventing what's possible in a way. 190 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.679 Sometimes the work we do is surprising because it's like 191 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.320 a risk for us to do something a little more mainstream. 192 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.759 So doing something family friendly felt like a risk for us, 193 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.360 and that some of our audience would be like, well, wait, 194 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.480 what's going on? And once upon a time we had 195 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.360 a really good time when even I first worked together 196 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:08.000 on this Shakespeare play, Twelfth Night, where we said, can 197 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:12.759 we treat it like an ensemble devised piece but actually 198 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:19.279 still play it straight like Shakespeare so that we can talk. 199 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:19.919 To different people. 200 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.039 I think part of the goal for us, having been 201 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.799 part of the fringe for almost twenty I mean we've 202 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.440 been in more than twenty fringe festivals, was like, well, 203 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.919 it's just time to talk to other people too. 204 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:34.559 So, yeah, it. 205 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.519 Was Twelfth Night, the one that took place in the morgue. 206 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.960 No, wow, you remember way back I was when I 207 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.399 was really had a chip on my shoulder about Shakespeare. 208 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.600 That's two thousand and seven, and that one is yes, 209 00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:53.879 Shakespeare performed in a morgue by naked dead bodies stumbling 210 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.960 around and mumbling yeah, which was do we curse on 211 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:57.559 this podcast? 212 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.120 Although fuck it? 213 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:02.919 So that was more of the fuck you Shakespeare project 214 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.799 of a of a younger Pig Iron, and then a 215 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.240 few years later we were like, well, maybe actually it's 216 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.799 a risk to not say fuck you and mess around, 217 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:13.879 you know, and see if we can really be a 218 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:18.039 reverent with it but not specifically put it in people's faces, 219 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:19.960 like what am I seeing? Here? What am I seeing? 220 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.200 And that show had this live Balkan jazz band on 221 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.840 stage that felt really different from other Shakespeare's that. 222 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:30.000 On that one. 223 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:32.840 Yeah, that was one of the ones that I definitely 224 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:40.480 remember hearing about and being that's up my alley, right, Okay, 225 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.639 that's crazy. And yet sometimes it is a risk to 226 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:47.879 go against your own grain and not say fuck you, 227 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:50.840 even if you're just saying sit on it, bucko, you 228 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.200 know what I'm saying, Like you just take like approach 229 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.039 it from the left a little bit as opposed to 230 00:13:57.480 --> 00:13:58.679 quite so on the nose. 231 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.120 You always been a part of Pig Iron? Is that? 232 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:06.200 Yes, I am in the weird position of having been 233 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:10.240 with a group of twenty two year olds twenty one 234 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.639 year olds and saying let's make a play and take 235 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:17.279 it to the Edinburgh Fringe and then oh, look, Philly's 236 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.600 starting a fringe, maybe we should do something there. Two 237 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.360 years later and now it's thirty years later, and there's 238 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.039 really been many a few different generations of Pig Iron 239 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:35.600 creators loving that Eva is here. We can probably tell 240 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.360 that Eva is younger than I am and bringing a 241 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:42.440 new vision, a new life to the company. And for 242 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:47.480 fifteen years we've run this graduate program in devised theater, theater, creation, 243 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.879 physical theater, which has really sort of shifted our community. 244 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:55.720 When we were younger, we were kind of trying to 245 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:59.639 We were touring a lot overseas and bringing back artists 246 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.960 from Japan and Sweden to make plays with us and 247 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.919 showcase them in the fringe. And now that we've set 248 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.480 up this school, people are coming from all over the 249 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:12.120 country and somewhat from all over the world, and some 250 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:16.840 are staying in Philadelphia and starting their own companies, companies 251 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:21.639 that are way riskier and more experimental than some of 252 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:22.200 what I do. 253 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.200 Some that are. 254 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.879 Yeah that like are in art galleries, rock bands, you know, 255 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.399 a bunch of a bunch of different forms have sort 256 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.360 of come out of the folks who come and train 257 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:36.759 with us and stick around. 258 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:38.799 I love that. I love it too, and it's such 259 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.600 a sign of maturity. It's like, how do I get 260 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.679 them to come to me, and you figured that out brilliantly. 261 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:51.240 So that's just maturity. Yeah, because you keep talking about 262 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.759 the eighties and I'm like, all right, I know exactly well, 263 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.519 we are the demographic. But yeah, it's and how do 264 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.960 you think I'm trying to phrase the question that's in 265 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:09.879 my head because I think it's talk amongst you come 266 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:13.840 back to me. I'm going towards, you know, like always 267 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:20.120 having a multi generational approach to theater, always having young 268 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:25.399 people and new ideas and new perspectives and including those 269 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.039 rather than saying we have figured it out. 270 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:31.519 Yeah, I don't know. 271 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.320 Do you want to talk about that a little either, 272 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:34.879 or do you want to hear my take? 273 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:37.600 Well, I would love to hear your take. But I 274 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:43.679 think one of the things, one of the things that 275 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:48.600 feels so specific to the pig Iron devising and co 276 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.559 creating process is that it really is made by the 277 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.039 people in the room. And in the same way that 278 00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.440 Dan was talking about wanting to create these visual and 279 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.599 emotional and rhythmic worlds that feel cohesive, there also is 280 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:11.000 a desire to really look at who's here and what 281 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.920 are their skills, and how can we make a show 282 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:19.839 that forms itself around that instead of getting a script 283 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.680 and being like, oh, there's a character in the script 284 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.839 that has to be a certain way, and our actor 285 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.119 is not exactly that way, and we're just going to 286 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:29.839 try to bend over backwards to turn this person into 287 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:36.720 someone that they're not. And I think when you gather 288 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.960 groups of people together, and when those groups of people 289 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:45.480 represent different identities in different generations, than there is a 290 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:50.160 kind of constant discovery and curiosity. So I think some 291 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.279 of it is seeking out the audiences who are young 292 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.200 and who are interested in pig iron, and some of 293 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.880 it is also just looking around and seeing who's in 294 00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.519 the room of the makers. 295 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.119 I love that though, because so often and you just 296 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.880 you just gave it words, just trying to kind of 297 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:11.319 beat the actor into the role rather than and I've 298 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:14.240 seen that, and I think that's dan what you mentioned about, 299 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:15.720 like are they in the same play? 300 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:16.160 Mmm? 301 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.480 Because it can be like what just happened there? We 302 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.759 saw that not that long ago, with one one particular 303 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:27.599 character and an ensemble and going hmmm, right, And I 304 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.519 think that was why I don't think that this was 305 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:35.720 their strength. So I love that idea of saying. 306 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:37.880 Which isn't to mean that there can't be rigor and 307 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.319 stretching casts own abilities. But yeah, I think what you're 308 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:44.480 describing is exactly the thing that Dan and I both 309 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.920 have a little bit of an allergy too. 310 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.920 And Dan your take, well, I was just thinking about 311 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.720 the word, about the word generations. I don't even know 312 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.119 if I finished this. Like what I was thinking before 313 00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:59.279 was like, I'm in the weird position of starting a 314 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.039 theater company with a group of college friends and blinking 315 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:08.519 my eyes and it's thirty years later. So it's a 316 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.920 little bit of you know, we really, I mean, you know, 317 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:17.160 we wanted to be upstarts, gad flies, people who would 318 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:20.160 like poke their finger in your eye, and maybe that's 319 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.640 a little unseemly in your fifties in some way. 320 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.880 No, it's not at all. I think that's when it 321 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:31.079 starts at its best, right, honestly, Yeah, truly, that's just 322 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.559 my you know, I recently sat on a panel that 323 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:41.000 was an intergenerational queer panel, and we ranged from I 324 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.759 want to say, seventeen or eighteen. Maybe maybe they were 325 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.559 both eighteen, but we had high school aged kids, and 326 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:51.599 we sat in age order goddamn them up until our 327 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:58.119 oldest person there was seventy two, and there were themes 328 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.640 of reconciliation and what is it look like and how 329 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.680 do we and what we kind of came to very 330 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.960 organically was we we looking up and down this row, 331 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:15.359 are this generation. We are each iterations of the generation. 332 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.920 And the more we respect one another and our perspectives, 333 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:28.400 which I think, I think in queer worlds and in 334 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:33.440 artistic worlds, we tend to be better at that than 335 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:35.680 maybe out there. 336 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:38.039 Yeah, I mean that. 337 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:44.160 Is very moving and makes me think about chosen family. 338 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.039 That's something that people in the. 339 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:52.480 Theater world and people in the queer community in their 340 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.279 own ways understand. 341 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:56.559 Oh yeah, And. 342 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:01.920 So you know, I think that it big Irond attracts 343 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:07.759 a lot of weirdos and I love that, and I 344 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:13.119 really you know, I think sometimes, yeah, sometimes we're trying 345 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.680 to have plays where it's like, yeah, this person is 346 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.039 so great, this is this is what they're meant to do, 347 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.160 this is this is the thing that this is. 348 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:22.039 Where they can. 349 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:28.279 Express something that they that they didn't normally don't get to. 350 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:34.920 I love it. So would you say that Franklin's Key 351 00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:39.559 is the most normal production that you guys have done 352 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.960 so far? I put normally in air quotes. 353 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:47.039 Shakespeare one is actually more normal than this one, although 354 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:48.359 I don't know. 355 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:51.160 I mean it's I also feel like. 356 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.279 We've done some shows that I call hoaxes, and I 357 00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:58.920 definitely like to do a bait and switch. 358 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.240 And I also so. 359 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.359 Like the sort of more elegant word is to be 360 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.519 disarming that a bunch of our shows are like, oh, 361 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.039 you know exactly what this is. 362 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.759 You can be comfortable. So I think you can come. 363 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:12.519 Into this show and go, oh, this is a spectacle. 364 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:16.720 And it's a spectacle and it's a linear story and 365 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:21.680 it's like a Marvel movie theatricalized and made onto the stage, 366 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.759 and that's so fun. But I think that that's the hook. 367 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.160 But there are some there are still some deep ideas. 368 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.599 There are still some things that are unexpected that happen 369 00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:35.519 in the show. I mean, you know, on the one hand, 370 00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:37.839 it's like National Treasure or if you ever saw that 371 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.119 show Alias, there was all this like ancient technology that 372 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.799 they were all fighting over in their secret CIA things. 373 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:45.759 I miss that in some ways. 374 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.200 It's just a you know, it's it's a goof on that. 375 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:54.240 But actually this question about technology being hoarded by some 376 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:58.039 people and some people wanting to dominate society or should 377 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:01.079 we allow everyone to use it? And is it too dangerous? 378 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.720 I mean, all of that stuff is really a reflection 379 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.079 of everything that's going on with AI and the Internet 380 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.599 and the way social media is being fine tuned to 381 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.839 grab our attention. So I think those things. 382 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.079 Are in there. I mean, I think there's I mean, 383 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:17.599 for the. 384 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:21.799 People on this podcast, there's a secret anti Elon Musk message. 385 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.480 That's the part of the play that in terms of 386 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:27.319 although you know, on the one hand, it's like a 387 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.200 classic Captain America villain, but on the other hand, it's 388 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:33.640 like a technologist who's like, I want to keep it 389 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.200 all for myself and I don't like the stupid people, 390 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.160 and I'm going to dominate them, and it's sort of 391 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.480 a takedown of that person. 392 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.759 Okay, I was going to go there, because like, how 393 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:51.119 do we talk about technology and conspiracy and without the 394 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.880 overlay of current events, Because yeah, absolutely. 395 00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:59.079 Right, And I was just thinking, like, technology is only 396 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.920 as dangerous as the hands that are wielding it. But 397 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.200 as we know, as. 398 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:12.000 We know, anything that hates the Latin must come down 399 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.279 with Now I want to see it more. I think 400 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.680 being able to be entertained and at the same time think, 401 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:23.519