Speaker 1: Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 1: And Lorenzo.
Speaker 2: On today's episode, we're continuing our discussion about the Forbes
Speaker 2: article that we came across a few weeks ago on
Speaker 2: the Coaches Council. This is advice that coaches, professional coaches
Speaker 2: would give to their younger selves as they were starting
Speaker 2: out their careers.
Speaker 1: You know, kind of advice they wish they had.
Speaker 2: All Right, they can look back and say, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is good advice now, and I do these things now.
Speaker 2: I wish I had known that when I was, you know,
Speaker 2: twenty years ago or thirty years ago, when my career started.
Speaker 2: It's been a fascinating conversation over the last few weeks,
Speaker 2: and we've gone through about thirteen or fourteen different pieces of.
Speaker 1: Advice on today's discussion.
Speaker 2: The piece of advice that the Coach's counsel would give
Speaker 2: to their younger selves is about appreciating the moment, and
Speaker 2: the words they use is that progress does not require perfection.
Speaker 2: It just means taking one step at a time and
Speaker 2: moving forward. My younger self did not appreciate being in
Speaker 2: the moment and enjoying my progress. Instead, I had to
Speaker 2: focus on the next thing to do. The process is
Speaker 2: a great opportunity to learn and to feel gratitude if
Speaker 2: you allow yourself to experience it. There's there's no denying that.
Speaker 2: Like I can say right now, yes, that's fantastic advice.
Speaker 1: I love that advice.
Speaker 2: And then whether or not I do it in the
Speaker 2: moment is hit and miss at best. You know, sometimes
Speaker 2: I'm successful, other times not so much.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's so true.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I think that there's a part of when you have
Speaker 3: passion for the work and you have drive for the work,
Speaker 3: it can be it can be hard not just to
Speaker 3: stop and smell the roses, but to even realize you're
Speaker 3: walking by a garden, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 3: for sure, really difficult to do that.
Speaker 1: I think I've.
Speaker 3: Learned over time to create spaces for those moments. And
Speaker 3: I'll give you a great example. I do this pretty
Speaker 3: you know, pretty consistently, where it's like having meetings and moments,
Speaker 3: bringing leaders together, taking the time to go deep into
Speaker 3: strategies or plans, commitments, things like that. Creating this space
Speaker 3: uh to to do things like go have dinner together
Speaker 3: and go eat and like and have some of that
Speaker 3: informal time and be able to like just talk about things.
Speaker 3: You know, we were you know, I had a meeting
Speaker 3: not too long ago and we had dinner together and
Speaker 3: like you know, we had great food and sat around
Speaker 3: a table and then had a whole bunch of conversations
Speaker 3: about things like TV shows and movies and and characters
Speaker 3: and books and just like all types of things that
Speaker 3: people were interested in. Questions like, hey, if you had
Speaker 3: a moment to hang out with, you know, a celebrity
Speaker 3: that you would really want to like talk to and
Speaker 3: learn from, who would that be? Like those types of
Speaker 3: spaces where you can just take that moments and enjoy it.
Speaker 3: But then I think it's important, it's a leader is
Speaker 3: to say those things. You know, I'm I'm known for
Speaker 3: saying like, hey, let's take a picture right now, Let's
Speaker 3: get a picture, because you know, if you look at
Speaker 3: this team a year from now, two years from now,
Speaker 3: three years from now, there's two things that should happen.
Speaker 3: Number One, there should be an expectation that many people
Speaker 3: are doing different things different places, because like, if we're
Speaker 3: not working towards progress or getting better than what are
Speaker 3: we doing? And we want to have the pictures because
Speaker 3: you want to be able to be like, hey, I
Speaker 3: remember three, four or five years ago, Remember this day,
Speaker 3: Remember this conversation, remember this time. Like taking those moments
Speaker 3: intentionally to capture the moment, but then create the space
Speaker 3: to have the informal connection, I think is so critical
Speaker 3: because that's really where the memories come. In my opinion anyway,
Speaker 3: that's how it resonates with me. Was like, the picture
Speaker 3: means a thing, like we all take pictures, we all
Speaker 3: have those pictures, Like we don't want to take a picture.
Speaker 3: We take a picture, right, all right, everybody team picture,
Speaker 3: get together like okay whatever, like it's going to happen.
Speaker 3: But those moments in spaces, I think of the things
Speaker 3: that allow you to slow down, pause, enjoy it, talk
Speaker 3: about it, and appreciate the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not wrong about that.
Speaker 2: I think in your example it being kind of a
Speaker 2: team thing. I think it's heavily dependent on the culture,
Speaker 2: meaning it's it's very fortunate itat it's great that the
Speaker 2: culture is such where you can do that and you
Speaker 2: can have a dinner and the discussion is about things
Speaker 2: that are not work related that you're just getting know
Speaker 2: each other and learning about each other and connecting.
Speaker 1: You can you can.
Speaker 2: Contrast that with the the opposite end, and you can
Speaker 2: picture these you know, kind of awkward scenes from like
Speaker 2: the office, you know, where where they're trying to get
Speaker 2: people together and because the employees don't want to be there,
Speaker 2: and because the boss is awkward, socially awkward and doesn't
Speaker 2: know how to ask the questions correctly, it's just this
Speaker 2: cringey moment.
Speaker 1: And I've been in those meetings.
Speaker 2: I've been in ones that are that don't necessarily rise
Speaker 2: to the office level, but they where I felt like
Speaker 2: things were trying to be forced when when the leader
Speaker 2: was trying to create culture by doing the things that
Speaker 2: that really should be the product of good culture that
Speaker 2: already existed. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that that's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I think when I look at this article around this
Speaker 2: advice about appreciating the moment, Yes, it is important to
Speaker 2: do as a team. I think where a lot of
Speaker 2: people struggle with it is doing it for themselves, like
Speaker 2: just in the moment. I know, oh that I that
Speaker 2: I have coached employees who wanted to apply for a
Speaker 2: promotion or a position while they've been in their current
Speaker 2: their current position or role for two months or three
Speaker 2: months or six months, and I know that just kind
Speaker 2: of talking to them and knowing that a they don't
Speaker 2: have the necessary skills to do this next role, but
Speaker 2: for some reason they think they do.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I love the confidence. I love the confidence of somebody
Speaker 2: saying that I think I could do the next thing.
Speaker 2: But but that's why it's the job of I think
Speaker 2: leaders to kind of help people, help steer people in
Speaker 2: a way that doesn't look like you're trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of squash them, but it does look like you're
Speaker 2: trying to make sure they're realistic about what the future
Speaker 2: looks like. And So when I when I think about
Speaker 2: my own experience with this process and I think about
Speaker 2: when I'm likely to think about when I don't enjoy
Speaker 2: the moment and I enjoy the process and I think
Speaker 2: about the next thing, it's not when I first start
Speaker 2: out doing something. It's it's several months in or you know,
Speaker 2: six months to a year in. At the very beginning,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm learning something new every single day,
Speaker 2: and that kind of satiates that need for the next thing,
Speaker 2: because the next thing could just be the next skill
Speaker 2: that I'm learning. But on a long enough timeline, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, call it three months, six months, or a year,
Speaker 2: depending on the role. It could be that there is
Speaker 2: nothing new on a daily basis, but the new things
Speaker 2: or the new skills or the new experiences that you
Speaker 2: get maybe happen a lot for you know, fewer and
Speaker 2: further between. Maybe then the the times that you come
Speaker 2: across something where you don't know what to do, or
Speaker 2: you have to learn something new or apply a new skill,
Speaker 2: maybe that happens every three months as opposed to every
Speaker 2: day at the beginning, and then you start to think, oh,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm done here, I've done everything I
Speaker 2: can do here. Now it's time to move on. It's
Speaker 2: this kind of this feeling like I now I know everything.
Speaker 2: And it's not really thinking I know everything, but it's
Speaker 2: thinking I know enough, I know enough where I don't
Speaker 2: get satiated every day or every week with something new
Speaker 2: to learn. It's just the repetitive motion of doing the job,
Speaker 2: whatever that is, and that can get tedious sometimes. If
Speaker 2: you are the type of person who wants to move forward,
Speaker 2: I think that's when it's most important to make sure
Speaker 2: you have people around you that can help you and
Speaker 2: keep you grounded, but a lot of that has to
Speaker 2: be internally. You have to kind of kind of get
Speaker 2: there on your own. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's also important, like in the micro moments
Speaker 3: of like what we talk a lot about, which is
Speaker 3: kind of self reflection, sitting down, journaling, writing things down,
Speaker 3: thinking about the day, thinking about the week, thinking about
Speaker 3: the lesson, thinking about the month, like whatever that might be.
Speaker 3: But like taking that time as well to really consider
Speaker 3: what you're doing, what you've learned, where you want to
Speaker 3: focus and grow. I think that also is a big
Speaker 3: part of those moments. And taking the time so to
Speaker 3: your point, like outside of the team part of like
Speaker 3: stopping to take the time to recognize the moment as
Speaker 3: a team, I think, as the individual and as a person.
Speaker 3: I think those are also those moments where you know
Speaker 3: you can feel really good about your progress and the
Speaker 3: work that you're doing and thinking through it. And I
Speaker 3: think too, like there's been a lot more moments in
Speaker 3: my life where I'm mid conversation, I'm sharing something with
Speaker 3: an individual or a team about a subject or about
Speaker 3: an opinion, and I'm just like where.
Speaker 1: Did that come from?
Speaker 3: Like like like how do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like like like I I'm saying something that I may
Speaker 3: have said in my head. I'm saying something that I
Speaker 3: know to be true, but I've never put it together
Speaker 3: in a way that is as maybe as clear or
Speaker 3: as as as inspirational or as impactful as that moment.
Speaker 3: And I really take the time to write those things down,
Speaker 3: Like it's one of the things that I've really done,
Speaker 3: is like wow, Like when I when I have that
Speaker 3: moment where like I hear my own voice in my
Speaker 3: head while I'm talking, and I'm like, oh wow, this
Speaker 3: this is something that like just saying it out loud
Speaker 3: is really resonating. I need to write that down to
Speaker 3: be able to go back and reflect upon that, like
Speaker 3: what got me there? What were the things that I
Speaker 3: was thinking of? And then like how do I take
Speaker 3: that idea or that phrase or that thing, and how
Speaker 3: do I build upon that? And so like what I
Speaker 3: can tell you now is like those exact things are
Speaker 3: what inform almost every one of the newsletters that I
Speaker 3: write every week is the idea like that that thing
Speaker 3: that I was talking about, that idea that I had.
Speaker 3: I can tell you what the next two or three
Speaker 3: are going to be because I've typed them up on
Speaker 3: my phone as a note real quick to say, this
Speaker 3: is something I want to go deeper into and that
Speaker 3: allows me to better myself. But it's also like self
Speaker 3: recognition for the moment of growth and understanding and kind
Speaker 3: of you know, creating your perspectives in real time, which
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we don't do enough of. We gain
Speaker 3: our perspectives, we repeat what our leaders and our mentors say,
Speaker 3: we kind of add our little own spin to it.
Speaker 3: But when it comes to these actual like unlocks, I
Speaker 3: think it's super helpful. And then typically what en is
Speaker 3: up happening is it leads me down the path and say, okay, well,
Speaker 3: like what are the content is out there?
Speaker 1: What other authors?
Speaker 3: Podcast head talks shows what are other people that have
Speaker 3: talked about this subject? Because I don't have the ego
Speaker 3: to believe that I just created this amazing thing, like
Speaker 3: there are other people that have talked about these things,
Speaker 3: but let me go, let me go spend some time
Speaker 3: like now learning and reading about how others have approached
Speaker 3: this or talked about it. And I might say, oh man,
Speaker 3: this is exactly what I was saying out like okay,
Speaker 3: so like this definitely exists. Or I might say, oh well,
Speaker 3: my take on this is slightly different, but like, how
Speaker 3: can I kind of gather these thoughts together to have
Speaker 3: an even more specific point of view that I want
Speaker 3: to share with people?
Speaker 2: Right? So a great example of that is the you
Speaker 2: know we We've had the author of Steven Shallezzki on
Speaker 2: the show. He has the you know, the book Speak
Speaker 2: Up Culture, and this fantastic book, and his kind of
Speaker 2: model around this is for an employee to speak up,
Speaker 2: the environment has to be both safe and worth it.
Speaker 2: And he put it on paper and and he put
Speaker 2: it in a book, and and God love him for it,
Speaker 2: like it's great. A long time ago I had a
Speaker 2: conversation with somebody about speaking up and saying something and
Speaker 2: telling them, hey, you should say something, and their their
Speaker 2: response was why nothing's nothing's gonna change, And like, well,
Speaker 2: are you afraid of saying something someone's gonna retaliate against
Speaker 2: you or that you're not gonna be Like, uh no,
Speaker 2: not really, I don't really care, but I don't think
Speaker 2: so I just don't think that's I don't think what's
Speaker 2: the point, you know? And then and and it was
Speaker 2: in that moment that I thought to myself, Okay, so
Speaker 2: so for for a person to kind of rock the
Speaker 2: boat a little bit or to say something that that
Speaker 2: that needs to be said. It's not just about whether
Speaker 2: or not they have a fear of doing it. They
Speaker 2: have to believe something's actually gonna change. And I remember,
Speaker 2: and I've had that that thought in my own head
Speaker 2: for years and never never put it down on paper.
Speaker 2: And and Steven Schleski wrote a book about it, like
Speaker 2: it has to be you know, safe and worth it.
Speaker 2: And so it's these these unlocks are a really big thing.
Speaker 2: You're so right, because uh if in the in the
Speaker 2: moment the first time I thought that, did I did
Speaker 2: I think this is profound? No? I didn't think it
Speaker 2: was profound. I thought it was just, you know, that's
Speaker 2: just everybody probably thinks that way, right, Like so I
Speaker 2: kind of devalue the thought process on my own head
Speaker 2: thinking that's not a big deal. I'm guess that that's
Speaker 2: common knowledge. Maybe it's not common knowledge. A lot of
Speaker 2: these things are are when you when you feel this
Speaker 2: kind of unlock moment, it might be a good thing
Speaker 2: to do to kind of explore a little bit about
Speaker 2: how how common a thought is this uh in in
Speaker 2: the world as a whole. Uh and how many people
Speaker 2: out there maybe need to hear it because these are
Speaker 2: these are the kind of things that can really allow
Speaker 2: you to enjoy the process, especially if you're trying to
Speaker 2: grow as a leader, If you're trying to learn and
Speaker 2: grow as a leader and become a better leader. These
Speaker 2: unlocks that you can use to help others get out
Speaker 2: of ruts that they're experiencing or help them grow to
Speaker 2: the next level. You know, those unlocks are. They become
Speaker 2: tools in your tool belt that then allow you to
Speaker 2: look at what the true kind of the joy around
Speaker 2: leading people is watching them accomplish things. Then maybe they
Speaker 2: didn't think they could accomplish it first, but maybe you
Speaker 2: knew that they could, and watch them actually do it.
Speaker 2: These are the tools that can help make that happen.
Speaker 2: And so I think they're very very important to document
Speaker 2: and to think about and reflect on.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And with that it brings us to this episode's
Speaker 3: one minute hack. But first a few words from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: All right, for this episode one minute hack, here's what
Speaker 2: I want you to do. The last words in this
Speaker 2: article around the concept of appreciating the moment. It says
Speaker 2: the process is a great opportunity to learn and feel
Speaker 2: gratitude if you allow yourself to experience it. I think
Speaker 2: those words are profound because I know in my own
Speaker 2: life when I don't stop and small the roses, so
Speaker 2: to speak, and when I'm focused on the next thing
Speaker 2: to do as opposed to enjoying the process. It's not
Speaker 2: because I think I'm I'm not allowed to because of
Speaker 2: outside forces or society or my boss or whoever.
Speaker 1: It's because I don't.
Speaker 2: Give myself permission to do it because I think in
Speaker 2: some way that either a it's going to limit my
Speaker 2: phoneocus on what the next thing is, or hinder that
Speaker 2: focus or slow down the progress to whatever the ultimate
Speaker 2: goal is. But the moment you realize that there is
Speaker 2: no ultimate goal, that the whole thing is just a
Speaker 2: process and there are you know, there are mile markers
Speaker 2: and milestones along the way. There is no endgame, there's
Speaker 2: just constant growth, then you start to be able to
Speaker 2: allow yourself the permission to enjoy the moments, because if
Speaker 2: you don't, then what's the whole thing for Anyway, If
Speaker 2: there's no endgame, if there's no like final boss that
Speaker 2: you have to defeat in order to rule the world.
Speaker 2: You know that doesn't happen. So it's just how do
Speaker 2: I get better at my role? How do I enjoy
Speaker 2: my role more by increasing the number of things in
Speaker 2: it that I get to do that I get passion from.
Speaker 2: And if it's leadership, it's seeing the growth happen in
Speaker 2: your people and allowing yourself to reflect on those things
Speaker 2: and feel the gratitude that you're able to do it.
Speaker 2: If you can start that ball rolling, it becomes something
Speaker 2: that picks up speed as it goes and it becomes
Speaker 2: easier to do because you will get a lot of
Speaker 2: fulfillment around the fact that you did it, especially if
Speaker 2: you're really bad at it now. So so give yourself
Speaker 2: permission to allow yourself to experience those moments when they
Speaker 2: happen and reflect on them, and you'll find you'll get
Speaker 2: a lot of good from it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know it's funny is as you were talking
Speaker 3: through that, I'm gonna do what we talked about earlier,
Speaker 3: which is I'm going to reference the book that I
Speaker 3: think encapsulated the idea to the best of its ability,
Speaker 3: which is which is Infinite Game by Simon Sinek. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like when I read Infinite Game, exactly what you were
Speaker 3: saying is like the understanding, and this is what I
Speaker 3: take from it that like leadership development, your like your
Speaker 3: development as a leader, is the infinite game. Like it's
Speaker 3: it's constant learning, there's constant refining. You're going to You're
Speaker 3: going to build these pillars of leadership that will always
Speaker 3: stand tall and they will always be like kind of
Speaker 3: the foundation of who you are as a leader. And
Speaker 3: then as you continue your leadership degree and you build
Speaker 3: on top of those, you realize this is where you
Speaker 3: can start to get a little bit more ornate and
Speaker 3: unique in like your style how you do things, and
Speaker 3: you start to take all these things that that start
Speaker 3: to really help you with that level of success. And
Speaker 3: I think he does a great job of explaining that that, like,
Speaker 3: once you realize that this is an infinite game, that
Speaker 3: there is no stopping, there's no like, Okay, I have
Speaker 3: become the epitome of the perfect leader who has nothing
Speaker 3: more to learn and makes no bad decisions at all.
Speaker 3: Then then the book you need to read it is
Speaker 3: called ego is the Enemy by writing Holiday rights the
Speaker 3: book you.
Speaker 1: Need to read at that point. Right, But but but.
Speaker 3: That idea, once you accept that and understand that, I
Speaker 3: think it just opens you up so much more to
Speaker 3: saying I'm going to enjoy this journey and I'm going
Speaker 3: to document my learnings as I go, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to take my time, and there'll be times when I
Speaker 3: have to move quickly. There's a lot going on, but
Speaker 3: I have to make time to be able to stop
Speaker 3: and to uh to to to take in where I'm
Speaker 3: at right now, where I've been, how I'm here, and
Speaker 3: and that reflection, I think is very powerful in helping
Speaker 3: you move even faster as you continue your career.
Speaker 2: Right and there's plenty of evidence to show that if
Speaker 2: you're in leadership development, that it is an infinite game.
Speaker 1: If you look at you know, if you've been listening
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 2: For years, we did a series on some of the
Speaker 2: most profound, the kind of the greatest leaders throughout history,
Speaker 2: and if you look at their leadership styles, they are
Speaker 2: vastly different because they span over the course of almost
Speaker 2: one hundred years. And so if you think about what
Speaker 2: made a leader successful eighty years ago versus what made
Speaker 2: a leader successful thirty years ago versus what makes a
Speaker 2: leader successful today, they are vastly different. And the leaders
Speaker 2: who are at the top of their game today who
Speaker 2: really show what it is like to lead people today,
Speaker 2: they would be chewed up and spit out by the
Speaker 2: workforce as a whole eighty years ago. Similarly, a leader
Speaker 2: that was you know, successful eighty years ago trying to
Speaker 2: kind of like magically appear in today's world and trying
Speaker 2: to lead people in the same way they people eighty
Speaker 2: years ago, they'd be fired.
Speaker 1: Like it is what it is.
Speaker 2: So there is no wrong, there's just what's right for
Speaker 2: the time and what made you successful at the time.
Speaker 2: But that is plenty of evidence that it changes, and
Speaker 2: that the speed of that change is getting more rapid
Speaker 2: and more rapid and more rapid. And so it used
Speaker 2: to be that you could have a thirty or forty
Speaker 2: year leadership career and not change your leadership style. Then
Speaker 2: it was well, you got to change your leadership style
Speaker 2: maybe once in your leadership career. If you're starting out
Speaker 2: as a leader today, you could have to refine and
Speaker 2: change your leadership style a dozen times over the course
Speaker 2: of the next thirty or forty years. If you're at
Speaker 2: the beginning of your career, it could happen that quickly
Speaker 2: because what becomes demanded of you by people and what
Speaker 2: they're looking for in order to decide whether or not
Speaker 2: to follow you, whether or not to let you guide
Speaker 2: them and lead them on their career journey. Those needs
Speaker 2: and those those kind of requirements, the prerequisites of that
Speaker 2: those are constantly changing, and they're changing, you know, more
Speaker 2: quickly today than they were before. And so absolutely continue
Speaker 2: learning and enjoy the process. Really focus on making sure
Speaker 2: that you that you take those wins for what they
Speaker 2: are and reflect on them and allow yourself to enjoy
Speaker 2: them and not just not just wait for a promotion
Speaker 2: or or validation that someone else kind of bestowed upon
Speaker 2: you as the as the validation.
Speaker 1: For that you did something well.
Speaker 2: If you're doing things well, you need to be able
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of bestow that validation upon yourself.
Speaker 2: But in that reflection process and in the relationships and
Speaker 2: the network you.
Speaker 3: Create, absolutely that what that brings us to the end
Speaker 3: of this episode, this is Hacking Leadership. I'm Lorenzo and
Speaker 3: I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.