WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.240 What kind of customer can be a flexible that can 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.000 buy power from a grid when it's available, but then 3 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:08.800 when there's demand elsewhere can shut off. And the answer 4 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:09.759 is a bitcoin mind. 5 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.599 Do you think eventually it might make sense to diversify 6 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.120 your bitcoin holdings into these track buy. 7 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.920 Institutions, No question, Absolutely it does, and we will. 8 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:26.679 This episode is brought to you by Treasure. Treasure makes 9 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:30.320 beautifully crafted hardware wallets that allow you to easily and 10 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:33.439 safely store your crypto assets. Treasure has been in the 11 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:36.399 game for a very long time, since twenty thirteen. 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You get one 23 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:16.640 on one customer support from their team, so you can 24 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:18.920 check that out as well. So once again, I'm a 25 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.239 big fan of this hardware wallet. So if you'd like 26 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.359 to learn more, visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, 27 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:28.280 welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony 28 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:30.959 Edward and joining me today is Matt Schulz, who is 29 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.959 the co founder, executive chairman, and CEO of clean Spark Now. 30 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:38.000 Clean Spark is one of the largest and most recognizable 31 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.239 bitcoin mining companies in North America. Matt, it is great 32 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:41.519 to have. 33 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.480 You, Tony. Thanks for putting this together. It's fun to 34 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.159 be here, absolutely, Matt. 35 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.439 I think it's great timing to be chatting about bitcoin 36 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.879 mining and where we're at in the cycle. And you know, 37 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.280 there's a lot happening with the governments looking to establish 38 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.120 the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. You are part of some of 39 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:00.200 the meetings, so I have a lot of questions. Are 40 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.599 you But I love to kick it off with your background. 41 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.040 Tell us about where you're from. Uh, you know, what's 42 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:07.280 your professional background? And how did you discover bitcoin? 43 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:11.080 Got it? Yeah? Thank you? So small town boy. I 44 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.879 grew up in a little town called land Or, Wyoming, 45 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:18.199 about five thousand people that lived there, so tiny graduating class, 46 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:22.159 and it was it was a terrific place to grow up. 47 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:23.960 If you wanted to play a sport, you played a sport. 48 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.360 There weren't tryouts. We just didn't have enough warm bodies, 49 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:30.599 so it was it was a lot of fun. My background, 50 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:33.240 I've always been on the finance side, focused on energy 51 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:37.400 and a number of different endeavors. And how I how 52 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:40.400 I came to find bitcoin is is a bit of 53 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:44.240 a convoluted story, but it's kind of interesting. I was. 54 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:46.759 I was involved in the traditional energy space, oil and 55 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:53.360 gas and putting together project finance, and as a father, 56 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.439 you know, I was. I was fortunate to have six kids. 57 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.319 And some of these oil and gas property that we 58 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:06.280 bought had been poorly maintained. There was poor containment on 59 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:10.680 wastewater handling. There were a number of issues, and I 60 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.000 recognized that we were doing a pretty bad job as 61 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:17.639 far as stewardship of the planet. So I made a 62 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:21.599 pivot in my career to start focusing on more alternative 63 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.319 sources of power, renewable energy. We had some you know, 64 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.520 as we worked over and improved some of these projects, 65 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:34.560 the wastewater handling trucks that we operated had a big 66 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.199 logo on the back and it said, we didn't inherit 67 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:41.039 the planet from our parents, We've borrowed it from our children. 68 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:45.039 So kind of gave me the drive to do better. 69 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.960 And so we developed a portfolio of technology regarding energy 70 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:55.800 generation and the conversion of carbonaceous speedstock into a clean 71 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:02.280 sind gas, so the convert waste energy. And then we 72 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:08.280 were deploying those solutions in a number of different applications 73 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:12.240 and we ended up partnering with and then subsequently acquiring 74 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:16.480 a micro grid technology company, so we were building you know, 75 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.000 you think about the US energy grid as the macro grid, 76 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:23.959 well micro grid would be a campus based or you know, 77 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:29.160 a smaller version of that grid, so you have energy generation, distribution, controls, 78 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:34.120 and storage. So we were building mission critical microgrids at 79 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:37.759 places like Marine Corps based Camp Pendleton and at embassies 80 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.839 around the world. And then we started to deploy those 81 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:45.279 solutions in data centers and we could model those solutions 82 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:51.000 around a number of different vectors, so cost avoidance, resiliency, 83 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:54.639 or greenhouse gas avoidance, and so you know, at the 84 00:04:54.680 --> 00:05:00.360 military basis, the mission was to make sure that NAVI gation, 85 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.720 guidance and communications always stayed live regardless of what was 86 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.879 going on with the San Diego Gas and Electric grid. 87 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:14.199 So through that process, we then developed a communications protocol. 88 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.199 So if you in the state of California, as an example, 89 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:20.759 if you produce solar at your facility, there are opportunities 90 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.120 push some of that power back to the grid for revenue. 91 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.759 It's called demand response, and so we were we owned 92 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.199 the virtual top node and virtual endode communications protocol that 93 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.560 will allow a private business to sell power back to 94 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.759 a public utility. So through that process we developed a 95 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:42.120 really healthy understanding of the interaction with the utility grid 96 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.120 and how delicate the balance is because you you know, 97 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.519 the grid has to produce enough power such that the 98 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.399 demands are met at peak demand, but then not overbuild capacity, 99 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:56.759 so you're running power to ground when demand wanes, and 100 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.399 so you know, understanding that their periods of time that 101 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.120 their surplus power and there are periods of time that 102 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:07.879 the grid is somewhat constrained. The idea behind a flexible 103 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:13.759 load started to really present itself as an obvious solution 104 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:16.560 to fix the grid instability and the challenges we have 105 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:20.000 with the domestic power grid. In conjunction with that, we 106 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.959 were working with the Minister of Energy in South Africa 107 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.279 to put community based microgrids in play to assist in 108 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.680 areas that there were energy poverty. And the challenge was 109 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.639 we designed and presented a solution for half a dozen 110 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:41.319 community based microgrids, but even the World Bank wouldn't touch 111 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.759 that without a flexible off take. And so it prompted 112 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.000 this spirited discussion between our leadership team and our board 113 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.839 of directors, and that was what kind of customer can 114 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.720 be a flexible load that can buy power from a 115 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.120 grid when it's available, but then when there's demand elsewhere 116 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.000 can shut off. And the answer is it's it's not 117 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.360 a traditional data center, and it's not a manufacturing facility, 118 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.160 and it's not you know, any number of different applications. 119 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:13.160 But what it is is bitcoin mining. So bitcoin mining 120 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:18.240 became kind of the panacea for grid stabilization and load 121 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.240 balancing because these machines have no memory. You can ramp 122 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:25.519 them up, ramp them down over clock, under clock, and 123 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.000 you can do that based on you know, economic conditions 124 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.839 that are driven by you know, the the the UH, 125 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:38.160 the capacity and the availability on the grid. So you know, 126 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:43.079 we we decided to focus as America's bitcoin minor, on 127 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:48.079 identifying pockets of power that are underutilized. And if you 128 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.879 think back four or five decades ago in our country, 129 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:55.319 there was an abundance of manufacturing and mining and sawmills 130 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.079 and all different types of industry that's subsequently gone offshore. 131 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.399 So you've got these little communities that many decades ago 132 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:11.720 funded municipal bonds to acquire their participation in the utility 133 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.639 grid and the generation and the distribution. And then when 134 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.800 when industry left, you got all these these beautiful little 135 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:23.240 communities that have pockets of power that are underserved that 136 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.519 you know, there there there's an opportunity that a company 137 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:29.519 like us can go in. We can buy that power 138 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:33.480 from the local utility, which in most instances is the city, 139 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.639 and they can make a margin on that power, and 140 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.080 so it makes a difference in those communities. And then 141 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.720 we also bring high tech jobs. So we like to 142 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:45.440 tell the story. You know, as a father, one of 143 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:47.720 one of my kids' favorite movies growing up was the 144 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:51.159 movie Cars, and it's a story about that little town, 145 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:55.679 Radiator Springs that was this bustling, happening metropolis until the 146 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.720 freeway came by, and then that town was forgotten. And 147 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:00.320 that's kind of the way that we look at our 148 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.039 community partners. Many of these are, you know, the real 149 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.399 world version of Radiator Springs and so's that's kind of 150 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.360 my long answer to my bitcoin story and how we 151 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.600 got there. But what it's resulted in is a tremendous 152 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.480 partnership with thirty three small towns across the United States, 153 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.240 where we're securing the global blockchain. We're creating high paying jobs, 154 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.399 We're pushing revenues and profits back to these small towns. 155 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:30.440 That's amazing. So you essentially started as an energy infrastructure company, 156 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:33.840 is that right, and helping working with folks and providing 157 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.960 new ways of getting clean energy, and then branched out 158 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:37.799 into bigcoin money. 159 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:42.840 That's exactly right. We have a portfolio of intellectual properties 160 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:47.639 surrounding energy generation, distribution and controls, and so you know, 161 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:52.919 we are patent portfolio regarding these micro grid solutions and 162 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.519 islanding away from the grid and working in concert with 163 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:01.919 the grid and revenue generation demanded response. That's really fundamental 164 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.720 in our DNA and so we we we I think 165 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:10.159 we approached the bitcoin mining industry from an entirely different 166 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.519 perspective than everybody else. In fact, when we when we 167 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:18.720 acquired our second facility in Norcross, Georgia, Axios sent a 168 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:21.120 journalist out to kind of talk about what we were doing. 169 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:23.600 And at the time, Axios was, you know, kind of 170 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:28.960 lukewarm on bitcoin. And the journalist wrote in his article 171 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:34.240 that clean Spark is not a team of bitcoin bros 172 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:38.360 trying to understand energy markets. Rather, it's a team of 173 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:43.240 energy professionals iterating in the bitcoin mining landscape. And so 174 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.519 it was a contrast and a differentiation and I think 175 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.240 it served us very well. Oh absolutely. 176 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:51.720 And you know there's still that stigma out there around 177 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:54.840 bitcoin mining. Just this past weekend, I was at a 178 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.080 book festival selling my book about crypto and someone walked 179 00:10:58.080 --> 00:10:59.879 by and said, this is you know, bitcoin is bad 180 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:02.279 for the environment and it's using tons of energy. And 181 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.720 I'm like, maybe in the early days, you know, certain 182 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:06.679 energy sources were used there were not great. But it's 183 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.159 very different now the miners are working with the grid 184 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.120 and the governments. It's it's very different. In twenty twenty five. 185 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:17.360 No question about it. We built a facility it's over 186 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.480 two hundred megawatts in a little town called Sandersville, Georgia, 187 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:25.279 and Georgia was, you know, previously the textile manufacturing capital 188 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.600 of the world. So a lot of these small towns, 189 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.000 I mean, there was kalin mining, there were timber mills, 190 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:34.440 and there was a lot of textile manufacturing, and they 191 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:38.480 had surplus power. And in Georgia, just give you a 192 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:44.840 quick example, they when Southern Company went through bankruptcy decades ago, 193 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:49.399 forty nine small towns in Georgia formed a co op 194 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:53.399 and they they partnered up and created MIAG, which is 195 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:59.200 the Municipal Electricity Authority of Georgia, and they funded through 196 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:04.399 municipal a stake in Plant Vogel, which is the largest 197 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:07.360 nuclear power plant deployment in this country in the last 198 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.679 thirty years. And so these towns now own some of 199 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.240 the generation, and the cities, through this co op, become 200 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:22.039 the utility. So they've got power available, but nobody buying it. 201 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.080 So Clean Spark goes in and we negotiate, we buy 202 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.399 the power from the generation at cost, and then we 203 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.559 allow them a small margin on every kiloot hour of power. 204 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:39.960 In this particular applications, it's primarily nuclear power. So it 205 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:45.759 also kind of supports our mission of identifying supporting non 206 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.120 carbon emitting sources of power, and that was really key 207 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.919 early on, and it's evolved a bit to be more 208 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:55.080 about grid stabilization and decreasing the reliance on coal fired 209 00:12:55.120 --> 00:13:02.840 peaker plants rather than overemphasizing the single load. But anyway, 210 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:06.519 the city is now our utility, so they're able to 211 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:10.600 buy much more power, and in buying more power, it's 212 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.480 the cost co effect, so it decreases the utility costs 213 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.480 for all the ratepayers in the jurisdiction. They then make 214 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:20.240 a margin on every kilo what hour we buy, which 215 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.759 is millions of dollars, and as a component of the 216 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.440 Territorial Act in Georgia, those dollars are reallocated back to 217 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:32.120 the community for you know, bike paths and splash pads 218 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:35.919 and schools and infrastructure. Well then on top of that 219 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.679 we pay sales tax, and the sales tax on the 220 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.720 utility is designated to stay in the jurisdiction it was generated. 221 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:47.600 So in this small town, Sandersville, Georgian, there was an 222 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:52.240 interview that was on WSBTV in Atlanta, and the mayor 223 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:54.759 had talked about the fact that in forty years in 224 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.879 public service, the city had never operated outside of a 225 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:03.360 deficit until clean Spark was there. Now not only was 226 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.159 the city and the green but that the surplus sales 227 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:11.320 tax had created a burden that they had to redistribute 228 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.120 that sales tax somewhere else, so they reallocated it to 229 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.519 property taxes in the community. So not only are we 230 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.879 monetizing stranded power for this city, we're now also decreasing 231 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:26.240 the cost per kiloot hour for the rate payers. And 232 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:31.519 then where the sales tax is decreasing, the property tax exposure. 233 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:34.440 So it becomes a win win win all the way 234 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:38.840 along for these communities, and all the while we're incentivizing new, 235 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.159 renewable and clean energy generation. 236 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:45.200 That's profound, and I think message, a message like this, 237 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.960 a story legis needs to get out there because a 238 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.080 lot of people have the ole perception and the fact 239 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.720 that you can monetize excess energy or energy that would 240 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.480 have been wasted or blown off for what it may 241 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.600 be and monetize it in bitcoin mining is a great opportunity. 242 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.399 And then you know, you as a mining company being 243 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.799 able to support a local committee in this way is 244 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:05.759 pretty pretty amazing. 245 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:10.720 Yeah, And it's you know that these opportunities are abundant 246 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:13.960 and it's interesting because to your point, a lot of 247 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.960 people saw bitcoin mining as the evil empire, or you 248 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.440 know the New York Times article, for example, where they 249 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:23.759 wrote the story that bitcoin mining consumes more water than 250 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.240 the top three major metropolitan cities in the United States. 251 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:32.559 Well that if you consider that the water that flows 252 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.840 through a hydro electric dam is consumed, then that would 253 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.600 be true. But in reality, the water doesn't disappear, it 254 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.480 spins a turbine. It's not consumed, it's not used, it's 255 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:46.200 not polluted. This is this is hydro electric power generation. 256 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.200 So you know, the media had an agenda and you 257 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.000 know certainly don't want to let don't want to let 258 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.840 the facts get in the way of a good story. 259 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.320 So you know, you you create these narratives about how 260 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.320 bad bitcoin is and how how harmful it is for 261 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.120 the environment and the emissions that these computers put off, 262 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.919 none of which are true. So you know, we work 263 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.120 in partnership with the grid. We can build out faster 264 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:13.840 than our colleagues in high performance compute. So Yenne, Wyoming, 265 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:16.960 for example, clean Spark has one hundred megawats there and 266 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:19.480 the other bidder for that power is Microsoft. I mean 267 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.200 they're driver nine to Iron away from our facility, and 268 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.120 we prevailed, not because clean Spark's a better credit risk 269 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:29.039 than Microsoft, but because to build a proper HPCAI data 270 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:34.519 center that Microsoft expect it's a four to five year endeavor. 271 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.919 We were able to take that same property and monetize 272 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.840 those megawats for the benefit of the community and the 273 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.759 utility in less than six months. The beauty in that 274 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:48.120 process is it's duplicatable. We can run in, monetize the power, 275 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:51.639 support the blockchain, build a bitcoin mining facility, and in 276 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:56.480 that particular instance, it's a fully modular immersion cool deployment, 277 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:01.919 so ultra high efficiency, less this sound emission than an 278 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:05.400 air cooled facility, and completely modular and portable. So we 279 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.920 go in bringing the electrical infrastructure, put in helical piers, 280 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.480 mount the pods, fill the tanks, put the machines in, 281 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.119 and we start hashing, and then we can start building 282 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.960 a proper data center behind that. So when that data 283 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.839 center is complete over the next three four years, we 284 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:26.039 can then pivot those megawatts to high performance compute. We 285 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.759 can take that bitcoin mining deployment and duplicate that again 286 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.720 in another location. So we're building ahead of AI to 287 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:39.200 stabilize the demand curve. In fact, about eighteen months ago, 288 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.079 I was invited to go to mar A Lago, and 289 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.079 this was when President Trump was candidate Trump, and he 290 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:47.680 asked half a dozen bitcoin miners to join him in 291 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.480 a round table, and he talked about the fact he 292 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:54.119 had previously not been an advocate for bitcoin and for 293 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.640 bitcoin mining, but what he understood is there's a demographic 294 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.400 of a voter base that a very passionate about bitcoin, 295 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.920 and maybe he didn't have all the proper information. So 296 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:09.720 we worked with their campaign to help kind of line 297 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:14.880 out their digital digital currency plan, I guess, so to speak. 298 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.079 And in that meeting, we talked about how fast we 299 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:21.359 could deploy and how we would enable we're kind of 300 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:25.759 plowing the road for AI in HPC. And he grabbed 301 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.240 his assistant. He said, his Bill still here, and she said, 302 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:31.319 I think he is, and go grab him. So, you know, 303 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:36.039 thirty seconds later in walk Senator Haggarty from Tennessee and 304 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.720 you know Tennessee TVA, the largest federally owned public utility. 305 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.920 Sits down at the table and President Trump said, Bill, 306 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.279 is it correct that what these guys are telling me 307 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:51.799 that bitcoin mining actually stabilized the grid and it shaves 308 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.200 the peaks and the valleys, and it's a load balancing tool, 309 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.640 but it also paves the way for AI and he 310 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.640 said it absolutely is, and he talked about, you know, 311 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:07.440 clean Spark specific operations within Tennessee and so to to 312 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:12.559 have played a role in guiding the digital asset kind 313 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:17.279 of strategy for the administration and to change the narrative 314 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.079 for bitcoin and bitcoin mining has been a huge honor 315 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.680 for myself and our team here at clean Spark to 316 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:29.480 be able to kind of evangelize how valuable bitcoin mining 317 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.839 is and then you know, to take it to another level. 318 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:37.920 You know, when when the Russia Ukraine War started, we 319 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.880 used o FAC sanctions to kind of shut down Russia's 320 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:46.039 access to global financial networks. Well, when we met with 321 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:50.119 the Biden administration and we talked about the value bitcoin mining, 322 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:52.720 their feedback was, we don't want bitcoin mining. We don't 323 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.160 want anywhere in the United States. We want it out 324 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.240 of here. Well, the challenge becomes what happens when there's 325 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:04.119 no block space for companies like Michael Sailors or US 326 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.720 investors that maybe have a bitcoin on coinbase. What happens 327 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.839 if there's kind of a reverse o fact impact and 328 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.920 you can't access block space to buy, sell, transfer bitcoin. 329 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.720 So we look at bitcoin mining domestically, and now the 330 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:25.079 President and many members of Congress agree bitcoin miners, domestic 331 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:27.759 bitcoin miners are really a national security there. 332 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.680 Yeah, absolutely, yeah, for sure. And obviously the United States 333 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.160 President Trump signed it an executive order to establish a 334 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.160 strategic Bitcoin reserve. The first phase is using the bitcoin 335 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:40.640 they've confiscated over the year, some bad actors and so forth. 336 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.519 But I saw you were at a meeting recently with 337 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.400 Michael Sailor and other industry leaders to try to explore 338 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.799 how the United States can now purchase bitcoin. Tell us 339 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.599 about that meeting and what were some of the takeaways 340 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:52.839 for you. 341 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.319 It was really awesome. I mean, we spent a week 342 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:01.359 in New York and then a part of the week 343 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:05.039 in d C. And then later that same week in Nashville, 344 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:09.759 and in all of those different cities. For example, I 345 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.319 got to spend a great deal of time on September 346 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:17.480 tenth with President Bush and to have him recap what 347 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:20.839 was going on that morning in Sarasota when he was 348 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:24.480 reading to those students, and what happened when the towers 349 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.319 were attacked and when when so to have that interaction, 350 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.440 you know, it's a kind of a pinch me moment 351 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.200 to go from you know, here here you are as 352 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.759 America's bitcoin minor, which enter prior administration is a completely 353 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.920 villainized concept, to now having an opportunity to sit with 354 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.079 the former president of the United States and the current 355 00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.759 president of the United States and to talk about what 356 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:50.599 our industry means for the nation. And so that was 357 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:52.160 a that was a blessing. And then we went to 358 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.319 we went to Washington, d C. And there were a 359 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:59.160 number of meetings we had. We had an opportunity to 360 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:05.839 speak to French Hill, to Tom Cotton, to Mike Johnson, 361 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.920 hosted the meeting, very gracious guy. I first got to 362 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.880 know Mike Johnson at the Crypto Ball during the inauguration. 363 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:17.119 And the cool thing about all of these relationships is 364 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.640 that they genuinely care about and are interested in bitcoin 365 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:26.359 and compute and how that becomes something that that strengthens 366 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:32.759 the US energy policy, but also the adoption of bitcoin 367 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.039 in the Strategic Reserve. So that was a separate meeting. 368 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:40.079 The picture that we posted on Twitter where I was 369 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.920 next to Tom Lee from Funstratt and then Sailor was 370 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.119 was there. We actually had the opportunity to speak to 371 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:51.200 a number of representatives and senators and Bernie Moreno was there, 372 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.599 and Marshall Blackburn was there, and there were there were 373 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:59.440 a number of very vocal proponents of bitcoin in attendance 374 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.039 at the meeting. And you know, Senator Moreno, I think 375 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.440 I think bitcoin got Bernie Moreno elected. I mean, the 376 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.960 the Bitcoin Voter Project and and Bitcoin voters in general 377 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.039 put a lot of resources behind Bernie Moreno's campaign and 378 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.079 he has done just a phenomenal job in being an 379 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.920 advocate for US there. And he made a statement in 380 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.680 this session and this isn't something that's you know, introduced 381 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.480 as policy and it's not pending a vote, but just 382 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:33.960 his his assessment. And you know, Michael Saylor made a 383 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.680 statement about Seward's folly and about how the United States 384 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:42.440 has made decisions acquiring Alaska or Texas, so whatever the 385 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.359 case may be, that we're you know, not well received 386 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:49.079 and everybody thought we were we were silly to do 387 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.720 these things. And you know in retrospect that you know, 388 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:54.960 the what's created the amazing country that we call home 389 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.160 today is were these decisions. And he said, bitcoin is 390 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:03.440 that next decision Gate, and Senator Moreno in that meeting said, 391 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.680 you know the challenge, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, 392 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.039 the challenge that I have is that, you know, since 393 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.680 nineteen seventy one, our currency has been decoupled from gold, 394 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.039 and the gold that we own is in Fort Knox, 395 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:19.240 but nobody really knows what's there. And Senator Moreno, to 396 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.359 his credit said with bitcoin, the entire network is audited 397 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.480 publicly every ten minutes. So he said, I could walk 398 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.079 in Fort Knox and I could tour it, but I 399 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:32.880 have no idea about the purity of the gold. I 400 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:36.400 have no idea which gold is what, and what the 401 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:38.319