Speaker 1: Welcome to the nonprofits.
Speaker 2: Well, it turns out that Texans aren't the only ones
Speaker 2: stirring up trouble. This week, in our third segment, we
Speaker 2: look at how federal agents are sharing in the atrocities.
Speaker 2: Attorneys from the National Immigrant Justice Center and the ACLU
Speaker 2: of Illinois have accused federal immigration authorities of unlawful arrests
Speaker 2: and constitutional violations in at least twenty two cases since
Speaker 2: the current administration's immigration crackdown began. The motion filed in
Speaker 2: Chicago alleges that ICE agents arrested individuals without probable cause,
Speaker 2: created warrants after detaining people, and violated the NAVA Settlement
Speaker 2: to twenty eighteen agreement meant to prevent warrantless arrests. Cases
Speaker 2: include a US citizen wrongly detained and workers arrested without warrants.
Speaker 2: Lawyers argue these actions breach federal law and the Fourth Amendment.
Speaker 2: ICE declined to comment the stories from the Chicago Sun
Speaker 2: Times by Adriana Cardona Maguidad on March fourteenth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: So we'll start off by going to Jimmy here, Jimmy
Speaker 2: car and you give us some specifics on some of
Speaker 2: the individuals that have been affected by these improper arrests.
Speaker 3: Well, sure, now at this point have heard everybody should
Speaker 3: have heard, if you're paying attention, that American citizens are
Speaker 3: just being rounded up. People with permission to be in
Speaker 3: this country are being rounded up and being targeted to
Speaker 3: have their protected status if they're not yet citizens removed,
Speaker 3: if they're political prisoners. For example, the four hundred thousand
Speaker 3: Venezuelans that are being considered or a move that is
Speaker 3: now being blocked by one judge, but being considered to
Speaker 3: have their protected status removed. Abel Erosco or Tega, detained
Speaker 3: outside his home in suburban Lions in Chicago without a warrant.
Speaker 3: He was buying Tomali's. Well, that guy must be a criminal,
Speaker 3: right of course, of course, yeah, yeah, And then we've
Speaker 3: got I'm going to butcher this even though I've heard
Speaker 3: it before. Rumesak, the thirty year old Boston area graduate
Speaker 3: student who was arrested and detained, who really did nothing wrong.
Speaker 3: She wrote an op ed about the Palestinian conflict and
Speaker 3: in a pro Palestinian form, and of course she was
Speaker 3: detained by masked men who were unidentified. And then in Liberty, Missouri,
Speaker 3: twelve restaurant workers barricaded inside a Mexican restaurant. Well, they're
Speaker 3: restaurant workers in a Mexican restaurant. They must be illegal
Speaker 3: and they must be criminals, right, but they were. They
Speaker 3: were closed in by the Department of Homeland Security, who
Speaker 3: arrested them without a warrant. And so, you know, I
Speaker 3: think this is just the beginning. We're at risk and
Speaker 3: I am I am going to use some really harsh language,
Speaker 3: but I like to think in terms of extremes, because
Speaker 3: if we don't, you know, then we let those extremes happen.
Speaker 3: And it's because we didn't take it seriously enough. But
Speaker 3: you know, we could be facing a major genosid right
Speaker 3: here in the United States against light skinned brown people.
Speaker 3: And if those of us with a voice don't stand
Speaker 3: up and recognize this wrongdoing, we certainly could be enablers.
Speaker 3: And so that's what I have to say on that.
Speaker 2: Definitely, I saw the video of the Ramesa Osterk getting abducted.
Speaker 2: It was very disturbing and it was I'm sure it
Speaker 2: was an extremely traumatic experience. Even you know, even if
Speaker 2: they end up letting her go or whatever, it was,
Speaker 2: just that experience alone can cause long term trauma and
Speaker 2: it's very, very disturbing.
Speaker 3: I failed to mention, you know, when we were writing
Speaker 3: the script for this show, I didn't add the story
Speaker 3: that came out yesterday about the l Salvadorian man who
Speaker 3: was an American. He was here legally. I don't believe
Speaker 3: he was an American citizen yet. Oh no, he was
Speaker 3: an American citizen, but he was deported to El Salvador
Speaker 3: and put in one of the most one of the
Speaker 3: worst prisons that you could be in. And he was
Speaker 3: here on political asylum initially because he was in danger
Speaker 3: at El Salvador. I mean, and I hear that there's
Speaker 3: being there's no attempt at trying to get him back,
Speaker 3: which is a shady.
Speaker 2: Is Is he the one that had that already had
Speaker 2: a judge's order specifically forbidding that he'd be deported.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so I think I'm wrong on the citizen part.
Speaker 3: But uh, you know, nonetheless came here for protected underprotected status.
Speaker 2: Right you come You're fleeing a dangerous situation, and you know,
Speaker 2: you hear these stories about America, Land of the Free
Speaker 2: and home of the brave, and then you get here
Speaker 2: and then you're kicked out, even though you were here
Speaker 2: even though you did go through all the proper channels
Speaker 2: and everything. It's not it's it's it's frustrating.
Speaker 1: Helen. Could you expand on that idea a little bit.
Speaker 1: Are these arrests are they're illegal?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Is this is an illegal thing happening? If so, how so?
Speaker 4: Because you're even if you're here like a on a
Speaker 4: green card, or you're here as a student, or are
Speaker 4: you're here under protect a status, you are, you are
Speaker 4: under law that you can be here in the country legally.
Speaker 4: You can't be deported, You're you can't be arrested for
Speaker 4: just having legal status to be in the country.
Speaker 1: You know you're not.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing.
Speaker 4: That's so messed up about this. Like, I'm this is
Speaker 4: a side example, but my mom is still here on
Speaker 4: her visa, like she is an immigrant from pullback. Technically
Speaker 4: she's white, so I don't know how this is going
Speaker 4: to play out.
Speaker 3: And she's old, she could be sick, yeah, I agree, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but she could technically be deported. You know,
Speaker 4: if we said, if we're ever going to take this literally,
Speaker 4: she could be deported. But unfortunately, this is this law
Speaker 4: is racist as fuck, and I'm sorry, but it is,
Speaker 4: and they're focusing on the brown people because what happens
Speaker 4: under fascist governments. You know what happens under fascist governments.
Speaker 4: You blame minorities that don't have any power, and you
Speaker 4: villainize them, you start deporting them, and then when that doesn't,
Speaker 4: you know, cut the mustard you were moving.
Speaker 3: Then we move on to more.
Speaker 4: Extreme things that Jimmy alluded to. Now I don't want
Speaker 4: that to happen, obviously, but this type of crap that's happening.
Speaker 4: This what happened in other.
Speaker 3: Other parts of the world.
Speaker 4: You know, in the early to mid twenties century where.
Speaker 3: Things got really bad.
Speaker 4: Guys, I'm really bad, So I'm again it's kind of
Speaker 4: really really kind of stop like do protests and you
Speaker 4: should be doing your best to help your neighbor.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Again, if your person the privilege, you use your privilege
Speaker 4: to help somebody else, right, and it's gonna suck. It's
Speaker 4: not gonna be comfortable, it's gonna suck.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like one of those situations where you
Speaker 2: just can't believe that it's happening.
Speaker 1: I mean I kind of feel like like I'm struck.
Speaker 2: Like it's just like, really, is this really this, you know,
Speaker 2: because you imagine it this kind of thing happening, you know,
Speaker 2: especially when politicians get talking about each other and that
Speaker 2: kind of thing and they bring up this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But here we are. I mean, it's it's really it's
Speaker 2: really hard to argue that there's not horrible things happening
Speaker 2: right now. And it's just it's to the point where
Speaker 2: people that don't recognize with it. It's almost you almost
Speaker 2: think that it must be intentional. It must be you know,
Speaker 2: intent willful ignorance. Right, Jimmy, I want to go back
Speaker 2: to you a little bit here. Helen was talking about
Speaker 2: the arrests and the policy mandating these arrests. Do you
Speaker 2: and then I just want to get your opinion on this.
Speaker 2: Do you think this is part of that larger agenda?
Speaker 2: Do you think there's ulterior motives here? Do you think
Speaker 2: this is specifically a racially motivated thing, or do you
Speaker 2: think it's just a safety issue gone wrong, you know,
Speaker 2: improperly and and incompetently enacted.
Speaker 3: It It's got to be a racial issue because white
Speaker 3: people are not being rounded up or deported, White people
Speaker 3: are not being threatened, you know, they might be in
Speaker 3: other capacities but not because they're white, you know, American citizens,
Speaker 3: people with protected status, all those people that are being
Speaker 3: threatened or of Latino heritage period. And so I can't
Speaker 3: see this not being a racial issue. In fact, the
Speaker 3: judge that blocked the move to remove protected status from
Speaker 3: the I said four hundred thousand Venezuelans earlier, it's actually
Speaker 3: six hundred said that these this move was being done
Speaker 3: through a racial justification, and he sees that this is
Speaker 3: not right, you know, and the rest of us need
Speaker 3: to see that this is not right. You know, I
Speaker 3: think that these are racist justifications. And the point, it's
Speaker 3: to the point that I'm now looking at our own
Speaker 3: law enforcement, like I look at the Gestapo in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirties Germany. I mean, ice, ICE is now a tool
Speaker 3: for fascist minded people, and you know, it's where the
Speaker 3: brown coats now, right, yes, right, And so verification of
Speaker 3: citizen is not citizenship is not even required. They're just
Speaker 3: rounding them up. And you know, there was an immense
Speaker 3: amount of pressure on these law enforcement agencies, particularly the
Speaker 3: people doing the tactical acquisition of the so called criminals.
Speaker 3: As there is a pressure on people all across the government.
Speaker 3: It's why we saw this ridiculous email from our supposed
Speaker 3: King Musk saying you better justify you'd better justify what
Speaker 3: you've been doing last week. People are going, oh shit,
Speaker 3: I don't I think I'm doing a good job. Why
Speaker 3: am I being harassed? And so we're seeing ICE agents
Speaker 3: and federal law enforcement to avoid being targeted and laid
Speaker 3: off and remove themselves acquiescing to this larger effort, which
Speaker 3: is wrong. It's flat out wrong.
Speaker 2: It's wrong not only for the victims of the crimes,
Speaker 2: but it's wrong to put people in a position where
Speaker 2: they have to do that, you know, where their livelihood
Speaker 2: is at threat and maybe even worse for them, you know,
Speaker 2: for their situation if they're labeled as you know, a
Speaker 2: dissenter or a troublemaker or something like that. They're not
Speaker 2: just going to lose their job, They're going to lose
Speaker 2: their communities. They're going to lose their you know, in
Speaker 2: many cases, their family. And it's it's really tough to
Speaker 2: put somebody in a situation where you have to do
Speaker 2: something that you believe is immoral or you know, keep
Speaker 2: your family fed. It's it's really, I mean, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's hard to see an upside to this. I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously there's not, but clearly somebody is at least imagining
Speaker 2: an upside here. Speaking of that, Helen, I want to
Speaker 2: go back to you for a second. Here, According to
Speaker 2: studies cited by NPR, research indicates that immigrants commit less
Speaker 2: crimes than US born people. Economists ran A. Breminski of
Speaker 2: Stanford University found that since nineteen sixties, immigrants are sixty
Speaker 2: percent less likely to be incarcerated than US born people.
Speaker 2: They talk, he talks about incarcerations because that's where that's
Speaker 2: the stage of the process where they look into citizenship status.
Speaker 2: So immigrants are sixty percent likely to be incarcerated. There's
Speaker 2: also a state level research that shows similar results. Researchers
Speaker 2: at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, looked into
Speaker 2: Texas in twenty nineteen, so we're back in Texas now.
Speaker 2: They found that undocumented immigrants were thirty seven point one
Speaker 2: percent less likely to be convicted of a crime. Beyond
Speaker 2: incarceration rates. Research also shows that there's no correlation between
Speaker 2: undocumented people and a rise in crime, rise in a
Speaker 2: rate of crime. Okay, I'm going to say that again.
Speaker 2: There is no correlation between undocumented people and a rise
Speaker 2: in the crime rate. Recent investigations by The New York
Speaker 2: Times and the Marshall Project found that between two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven and twenty sixteen, there was no link between
Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants and the rise in violent or property crime. So,
Speaker 2: as we found in earlier segments this week, we have
Speaker 2: a solution that does seem to address any kind of problem.
Speaker 2: I hate to keep going back to the racism trough,
Speaker 2: but if you have if if it looks like a
Speaker 2: bigotry and act quacks like a bigotry, it's probably bigotry, right,
Speaker 2: is it really? Is it really that simple? Is this
Speaker 2: just flat out racism or could there let's let's try
Speaker 2: to at least put ourselves in uh in the other perspective,
Speaker 2: Could there conceivably be some sort of legal or policy
Speaker 2: objective here, or is it just straight up racism?
Speaker 4: It's racism because if they were being honest and they
Speaker 4: were really looking at you know, you know, looking at
Speaker 4: this from is there a correlation between illegal immigration and violence?
Speaker 4: You know, problems with the economy because everybody always complaining
Speaker 4: about how, you know, immigrants are going to take my job,
Speaker 4: and you know, on all this type of stuff. No, no,
Speaker 4: stop it, stop it, sap stab it.
Speaker 3: It's racism. It's racism because the.
Speaker 4: Only people there paying attention to are having to be
Speaker 4: people from Latino.
Speaker 1: Countries, right yeah, so yeah, exactly, Venezuelan's right.
Speaker 3: Reality of it.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big sample size right there.
Speaker 4: And so if that is your goal is to blame
Speaker 4: you know, people that have more melanin than you do
Speaker 4: and having to you know, come from a different country
Speaker 4: where they u still at different language than you, and
Speaker 4: you don't understand their culture because you know, you don't
Speaker 4: bother to learn anything or you or And the thing is, though,
Speaker 4: you know, when we're people are disgusted by what they
Speaker 4: don't understand, and they're discussed by differences, and if you
Speaker 4: don't have your critical thinking brain on and being like,
Speaker 4: you know, this was some you know, psychological priming and
Speaker 4: bullshit that was fed to me about people that you
Speaker 4: know are different than me, what you do is you
Speaker 4: jump to fe I don't understand this, so you jump
Speaker 4: to fear. You jump to discuss, and what do we
Speaker 4: want to do with things that discussed us? We want
Speaker 4: to push it away, don't want anything to do with it.
Speaker 4: And then you then you have the right to dehumanize
Speaker 4: another human being and now recognize that this is going
Speaker 4: to traumatize them. You aren't fucking up their lives. I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: I'm swearing. Not this pisses me off like this.
Speaker 2: Have done a great job of restraint up to this
Speaker 2: point so far I would have been I think there's
Speaker 2: much more swearing.
Speaker 1: That's deserved here.
Speaker 3: Now we should all be pissed off.
Speaker 4: Yes, there is a backlash effect of this too. And
Speaker 4: let's let's just sit here and think about those people. Okay, Like,
Speaker 4: let's just say that you are a Hispanic family living
Speaker 4: in the United States, Okay, and you're a father and mother.
Speaker 4: You're allowed to stay here with one parent, but your
Speaker 4: other parent gets deported back to El Salvador, Guatemala, you
Speaker 4: know Piccolatina country, Right. What does that do to that family?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly?
Speaker 4: How are they going to feel about the country that
Speaker 4: they immigrated to looking for a better life to protect
Speaker 4: their family and a family member gets to poured it back.
Speaker 3: You know, the man that was sent to the L
Speaker 3: Salvador prison. The reason why we know for sure that
Speaker 3: he's in that prison is because his wife saw footage
Speaker 3: of that prison on TV covering the story of people
Speaker 3: being deported to El Salvador and saw him at the prison.
Speaker 4: That's disgusting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that he was able to confirm right there.
Speaker 3: She didn't know where he was, suspected that he had
Speaker 3: been deported, but had no idea until she saw on
Speaker 3: TV that her husband was indeed in El Salvador, in
Speaker 3: a prison where he's in danger.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean that you would think that would
Speaker 2: they would at least give her that much, at least
Speaker 2: just tell him where, tell her where her husband is.
Speaker 1: No, it's just gone and disappear.
Speaker 2: And just just by happenstance was able to find that information.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: He's not considered a person, He's considered a problem. And
Speaker 4: that's the thing, because when you humans, she doesn't deserve respect,
Speaker 4: she doesn't deserve to know where her husband is. Because
Speaker 4: that's that's what racism does.
Speaker 3: This is what fascism dust.
Speaker 4: It tells you that certain other people are not people,
Speaker 4: they're a less than And that's why we're seeing this
Speaker 4: is why this I'm just so mad because it's so
Speaker 4: it's so terrible what it's happening. And I and again,
Speaker 4: like Scott, you were saying before, like, this is not America,
Speaker 4: this is un America, this is not the America that
Speaker 4: I had the idea of what especially coming from a
Speaker 4: family of immigrants both of my parents, you know, my
Speaker 4: mom is from Canada and my dad's dad is from Albania,
Speaker 4: so you know, and so when you have that perspective
Speaker 4: and you know of that melting pot and you know
Speaker 4: different people, you know, coming together, it's just heartbreaking that
Speaker 4: this is this is happening.
Speaker 1: I want to stick on the on the racism idea.
Speaker 2: I know it's difficult to talk about, so I really
Speaker 2: appreciate both of you having this conversation. I think this
Speaker 2: is I think it's good for people to be able
Speaker 2: to talk about this kind of thing in a in
Speaker 2: a relatively safe environment like we are here, especially because
Speaker 2: there's so many people that don't have that kind of
Speaker 2: environment where they can have this kind of discussion. So
Speaker 2: thank you both for that. But Jimmy, I wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you. We've talked many many times on the nonprofits
Speaker 2: on how conservative thought, both politically and religiously is very
Speaker 2: often tied to and there's tons of studies that show
Speaker 2: this is correlated to an authoritarian perspective, an authoritarian mindset.
Speaker 2: And we also know that those who have such an
Speaker 2: authoritarian mindset are very vulnerable to fear response. Okay, they're
Speaker 2: they're very They react very strongly to threats and to
Speaker 2: and and to fear based situations. Do you think that,
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's horrible racism happening, whether it was
Speaker 2: intended to be racism, or whether it's even worse racism
Speaker 2: of indifference. Do you think that this could be there
Speaker 2: could be some kind of political benefit for taking advantage
Speaker 2: of this kind of racism. And again, I want to
Speaker 2: stress I think almost that kind of racism is worse
Speaker 2: the racism of indifference. They're just playing along with the
Speaker 2: racism to get the votes kind of thing. Do you
Speaker 2: think that there's an aspect of that in the story here?
Speaker 3: Sure, I think the hate is being intentionally engineered. I
Speaker 3: think that it is being created to freeze the status quo,
Speaker 3: or well, first of all to change it, but now
Speaker 3: to maintain it. Right. I think that border security and
Speaker 3: economic problems, even though the economy was good and improving
Speaker 3: was the may were the major issues that people voted
Speaker 3: the way that they did, and because it was the
Speaker 3: it was under the they were under the impression that
Speaker 3: immigrants were the problem for a failing economy. But you
Speaker 3: know what, when you are not educated on how immigrants
Speaker 3: make any economy work, and how any economy works, and
Speaker 3: that it's actually in a good spot, better than when
Speaker 3: the president at the time took office, then you have
Speaker 3: a tendency to go along with the engineered hate. And
Speaker 3: I think that that's what's happening. I forget who said it. Boy,
Speaker 3: we love the uneducated. I doesn't matter who said it.
Speaker 3: But you know, it just goes to show you that,
Speaker 3: you know, having an uneducated mass or base, i should say,
Speaker 3: and keeping them that way by dismantling education outlets, dismantling
Speaker 3: the Department of Education and funding to schools right goes
Speaker 3: along with allowing this blame to be to be propagated,
Speaker 3: if you will. And so, yeah, I think that while
Speaker 3: there might not be people that are themselves racist, they're
Speaker 3: going along with the racism because it helps their position,
Speaker 3: their wallet, and their power. And so that's the unfortunate
Speaker 3: part about it. You know a lot of people have
Speaker 3: decided that racis is not a red line for them,
Speaker 3: and that's scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like that callous indifference is really just
Speaker 2: not that's not part of a world I want to
Speaker 2: be in. And speaking of worlds that I'm not in,
Speaker 2: I want to tie in the religion. Again, we haven't
Speaker 2: really talked a lot about the original religion in this
Speaker 2: These stories are just so horrific that it's like half
Speaker 2: an hour before we can even get to the religion part.
Speaker 2: But I want to read a few quotes from a
Speaker 2: book that I'm sure you're all familiar with. Here, first quote,
Speaker 2: you shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers
Speaker 2: in the land of Egypt. That's from Deuteronomy ten nineteen.
Speaker 2: The alien who resides with you shall be to you
Speaker 2: as the citizen among you. You shall love the alien
Speaker 2: as yourself, for you are aliens in the land of Egypt.
Speaker 2: I am the Lord, your God. That's from Leviticus nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty four. Thus says the Lord of hosts, render true judgments,
Speaker 2: show kindness and mercy to one another. Do not oppress
Speaker 2: the widow, the orphan, the alien, or the poor, and
Speaker 2: do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.
Speaker 2: That's from Zechariah and seven nine through ten. Last one, here,
Speaker 2: let mutual love continue, do not neglect to show hospitality
Speaker 2: to strangers. For doing that, some have entertained, and for
Speaker 2: by doing that, some have entertained angels without knowing it.
Speaker 2: Remember those who are in prison as those who were
Speaker 2: in prison with them, those who are being tortured, as
Speaker 2: though you are being tortured yourself. And so, in other words,
Speaker 2: welcome them as your brothers, welcome them as among yourselves.
Speaker 2: And that's from Hebrews thirteen to one through three. So
Speaker 2: the Bible, obviously that was all from is especially relevant
Speaker 2: here because there's a huge overlap in those who are
Speaker 2: supporting these immigration policies and those who support the christ
Speaker 2: criminal Freian slip there, the Christian nationalist movement. And I'm
Speaker 2: going to ask this from both of you. Do these
Speaker 2: people actually read their own book? And why do you
Speaker 2: think pointing out the Unchristian nature of these policies does
Speaker 2: nothing to stem the tide of hate. We'll go to
Speaker 2: Jimmy first and then we'll finish with Helen. Well, they
Speaker 2: think they read their own book? And why is this
Speaker 2: not having an effect at large?
Speaker 3: Most Christians don't read their own books. Human beings are
Speaker 3: generally lazy, and if they have somebody standing at the
Speaker 3: front of their congregation holding the book, telling them, Hey,
Speaker 3: I read it for you. You know this is what it says.
Speaker 3: They're probably comfortable doing that. I'm sorry say the second
Speaker 3: part of your question again, do they read their own goal?
Speaker 2: Why does pointing out these things not change anything? If
Speaker 2: we point to I just listed it was so easy
Speaker 2: to find those five or six verses. I could have
Speaker 2: kept going, why does that not change anything?
Speaker 3: Because I think that people don't really care. Honestly, they
Speaker 3: are not willing to trade the position that they're in. Heck,
Speaker 3: as far as I know, Jesus said to give all
Speaker 3: your things away to the poor, right, I don't think
Speaker 3: that we're going to see anybody do that, any any
Speaker 3: Bible thumping Christian do that. In fact, they're more likely
Speaker 3: to hoard wealth just like most other people are willing
Speaker 3: to hoard things is that they they identify essential to
Speaker 3: their own survival. I don't think that people who claim
Speaker 3: to be Christian at large really care. I just think
Speaker 3: they care about their own well being like most regular
Speaker 3: people do, and they use this Christian dogma instead as
Speaker 3: a way to say or to describe us versus them,
Speaker 3: so that way they can demonize them.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Helen, do you have anything to add to that?
Speaker 2: I know you and I have had a great discussion
Speaker 2: about lazy thinking. Do you think lazy thinking is contributing
Speaker 2: to this or do you think you know what?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What do you think is going on? I know that
Speaker 2: you were a former Catholic there what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4: So my kind of feeling is that I'm with they
Speaker 4: don't they're not reading their book, and or if they are,
Speaker 4: they're they're picking and choosing what they want to pull
Speaker 4: out of it like every other religion does. So they
Speaker 4: they if they read the words, they're like, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't like that, you know, be kind to your
Speaker 4: neighbor thing. But I but I like this thing about like,
Speaker 4: you know, being the right. You know that, I like,
Speaker 4: you know that I'm going to take I'm going to
Speaker 4: take that away, you know, so or be there. As
Speaker 4: Jamie said, they just need someone to tell them what
Speaker 4: to do and how to think. And they're not, as
Speaker 4: you know, they're they're not using their critical thinking skills.
Speaker 4: It's easier just to go at the flow, do lazy
Speaker 4: thinking and not do the hard work of going Well,
Speaker 4: they're telling me this, like these people are.
Speaker 3: Bad, but I don't.
Speaker 4: But I haven't seen any evidence that these people are bad.
Speaker 4: You know, I haven't seen anything that's affecting my life.
Speaker 3: I saw my job. You know, I'm still pretty comfortable. Like,
Speaker 3: am I being infested?
Speaker 1: Bullshit?
Speaker 4: You don't see because even if they question it for
Speaker 4: two seconds, then another thing that what people don't like
Speaker 4: is that they'll psychologically protect themselves against things that they
Speaker 4: don't like about themselves and happy to deal with your
Speaker 4: internal bias is it's going to make people feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: And instead of doing that, which is look at your
Speaker 4: bias and examine it for what it fucking is, I'm
Speaker 4: just gonna blame.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4: Those people are the bad people, and I am justified
Speaker 4: in thinking the way that I do.
Speaker 1: I agree what a bigger going to do right? Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we could keep going on for
Speaker 2: for many many hours here, but I think we need
Speaker 2: to stop here.
Speaker 1: So I want to thank everybody for listening.