1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,480 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,640 go to dpeakclendarshow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free rate to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,359 your support. First off, I have to acknowledge my bias. 10 00:00:32,799 --> 00:00:36,200 Let me start with an anecdote lesson. 11 00:00:36,679 --> 00:00:41,079 Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty, the Republican controlled House of Representatives, in 12 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:45,679 an effort to alleviate the effects of the anyone, anyone 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:52,880 a Great Depression past the anyone anyone a tariff bill, 14 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:59,600 the Holly Smoot Tariff Act, which anyone raised or lowered 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,599 raised tariffs in an effort to collect more revenue for 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,200 the federal government. Did it work? Anyone anyone know the effects? 17 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,920 It did not work, and the United States sank deeper 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,359 into the Great Depression. 19 00:01:14,519 --> 00:01:20,879 Speaker 1: Hmmm, this is my bias. From the documentary Ferris Bueller's 20 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,480 Day Off. That's where I get this knowledge from. 21 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:24,079 Speaker 2: Bueller. 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Bueller right, Bueller, the Smoot Holly Terr Effect, or 23 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,879 as he called it, the Holy smoot Terr Effect. 24 00:01:40,599 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: Last night on the do A live stream on Wednesday's night, 25 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,040 the last night in the live stream, I acknowledge I 26 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:52,640 may be the fish that doesn't know it's wet. Because 27 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:56,200 of my age. I am a I'm a youngin and 28 00:01:56,239 --> 00:02:02,920 so my entire life and all of the status quo 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:09,360 thinking about tariffs has been that they are not good. 30 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,439 They are not good for the residents of the nation 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:24,439 that apply them to imports. And I guess we're going 32 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,560 to find out if that's true or not right. We 33 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:30,319 are all going to white knuckle this sucker all the 34 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:36,120 way down to find out whether or not everybody for 35 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:41,240 the last century has not known that they are the 36 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:50,319 fish that is wet. Right, because in nineteen thirty June seventeenth, 37 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:54,520 as a matter of fact, nineteen thirty, the US legislation 38 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:59,000 was passed, the Smoot hay Terr Effact. It raised import 39 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,280 duties to protect American businesses and farmers, adding considerable strain 40 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:09,080 to the international economic climate of the Great Depression. This 41 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,680 is according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. If you can trust 42 00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:16,439 that The Act takes its name from the chief sponsors, 43 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,360 Senator Reed Smoot of Utah, or as we like to 44 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,120 refer to him, Smuta, Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, 45 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,039 and Representative Willis Hawley of Oregon. 46 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,159 Speaker 4: He was the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. 47 00:03:33,319 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: It was the last legislation under which the US Congress 48 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:43,520 set actual tariff rates. Okay, the last time this was 49 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,039 done nineteen thirty, and it was a disaster. 50 00:03:50,039 --> 00:03:53,039 Speaker 4: Right. The consensus not even a consensus. 51 00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:56,639 Speaker 1: It's like darn near unanimous understanding of what the Smoot 52 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,840 Hawley Terriff Act did was to prolong the Depression, the 53 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,000 Great Depression. See, because it wasn't the first set of 54 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:09,120 tariffs that the US had put in place. In nineteen 55 00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:14,520 twenty two, Congress had enacted the Fortney McCumber Act, which, 56 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,720 for some reason, nobody ever talks about that one. It's 57 00:04:16,759 --> 00:04:21,639 always smooth Holly, Smooth Haley, It's never Fortney McCumber. But 58 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,600 that was among the most punitive protectionist tariffs passed in 59 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,800 the country's history. It raised the average import tax to 60 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:37,720 forty percent forty percent, Okay. The Fortney McCumber tariff prompted 61 00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:44,319 retaliation from European governments, but it did not dampen US prosperity. 62 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,680 According to the Encyclopedia Britannica. Okay, so it did not 63 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,279 reduce prosperity forty percent tariffs Throughout the nineteen twenties, however, 64 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,079 as European farmers were trying to recover from World War 65 00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:01,800 One and their American counterparts faced more competition because you 66 00:05:01,879 --> 00:05:05,120 I mean, think about it, you had Europe that had 67 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,040 been you know, obliterated in World War One, and by 68 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,959 the way, the same thing happened after World War Two 69 00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:16,759 when it was obliterated and all the industrial capacity was 70 00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:21,079 just ravaged. It was pretty easy for America to dominate 71 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,800 all of the you know, Western societies, the industrialized world, 72 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,720 because we didn't really have a whole lot of competition 73 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,319 at that point because they were all they just come 74 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:39,399 out of two world wars. Right, So after World War One, 75 00:05:39,519 --> 00:05:43,480 the farmers in Europe they start recovering, and so now 76 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,720 they're able to grow stuff and they're able to sell 77 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:47,959 it on the markets and all of that, and now 78 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,120 that's starting to hurt the US farmers. American farmers were 79 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:01,680 now facing competition declining prices because they had overproduced because 80 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:05,040 they didn't have competition. Now you've got the European farmers recovering. 81 00:06:05,079 --> 00:06:10,639 Now there's more supply in the market. US agricultural interests 82 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,000 than lobbied the federal government for protection against agricultural imports. 83 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:18,519 In his nineteen twenty eight campaign for the presidency, Republican 84 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,680 candidate Herbert Hoover promised to increase tariffs on agricultural goods, 85 00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:28,480 but after he took office, lobbyists from other economic sectors 86 00:06:28,759 --> 00:06:32,199 encouraged him to support a broader increase. Make it affect 87 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,639 more products, more sectors, right, more industries. Although an increase 88 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,000 in tariffs was supported by most Republicans, an effort to 89 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,720 raise import duties failed in nineteen twenty nine, largely because 90 00:06:44,759 --> 00:06:49,079 of opposition from centrist Republicans in the US Senate. And 91 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,439 then came the stock market crash in nineteen twenty nine, 92 00:06:54,240 --> 00:07:00,639 and then protectionism. This philosophy of protectionism gained strength and 93 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,839 through the tariff legislation Smoot Hawley tariff passed on a 94 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:08,199 margin of two votes forty four to forty two in 95 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,000 the Senate. It passed easily in the House. This then 96 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:17,319 became law even though a petition from over one thousand 97 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:23,160 economists were saying veto this legislation. Herbert Hoover signed it 98 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:31,879 into law June seventeenth, nineteen thirty. It raised the average 99 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,720 tariff averaged tariff by twenty percent, which then prompted retaliation 100 00:07:36,839 --> 00:07:41,600 from foreign governments. Overseas banks began to fail. Global trade 101 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,040 declined in the four years that the legislation was in effect. Oh, 102 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:52,439 and the Republicans were all voted out. Smoot and Hawley 103 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:58,680 lost their seats, Hoover out, and FDR comes to office 104 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:08,079 and Democrats enjoyed control. Then for over sixty years, Smoot 105 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:13,639 Hawley tariff considered among the most catastrophic acts in congressional history. 106 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,759 Tariff did not sit well with the voters, and Republicans 107 00:08:16,759 --> 00:08:21,600 paid the price, voting out all of the Republican majorities. 108 00:08:23,759 --> 00:08:27,079 So that's the ocean I am in. Okay, that's what 109 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:34,200 I have always understood about these kinds of punitive, large tariffs. 110 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: Okay, I recognize my bias. 111 00:08:38,879 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: This is why I am greatly concerned at what the 112 00:08:42,759 --> 00:08:48,039 President unveiled yesterday. And I am also concerned that there 113 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,480 doesn't seem to be a lot of explanation that is 114 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:58,039 coherent and consistent from the administration. I'm getting different explanations 115 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,559 for why we need to have the tears. You talk 116 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,840 to three different administration officials and you're gonna get three 117 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:10,279 different answers. I've got audio, we got Scott Descent, I've 118 00:09:10,279 --> 00:09:14,480 got you know, supporters that are that are trying to 119 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,480 defend this tariff regime. 120 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,519 Speaker 4: It's a negotiation. Oh no, it's more than that. 121 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: Whatever, whatever the case may be here, my concern is 122 00:09:25,759 --> 00:09:28,799 that this now is going to create the same conditions 123 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,600 that the Smoot Hawley tariffs did. Kind of like a 124 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:36,879 fourth turning. Here's a great idea. 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But you know what, as 150 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,960 I have said repeatedly, we're all gonna see what happens here. 151 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 4: Like let's and Scott pissent. 152 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: The Treasury secretaries like, you know, let's all just. 153 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,279 Speaker 4: Just watch and wait. 154 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: And I haveverged the same thing, like the immediate reactions 155 00:11:17,919 --> 00:11:20,440 to all things Trump, and you get the people that 156 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:23,320 hate Trump, and so they immediately start attacking anything that 157 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,879 he does and they make all the dire predictions. 158 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 4: And this could be one of those times too. 159 00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:34,279 Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that tariffs are taxes, and those 160 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,399 taxes have always been borne by the people in that country. 161 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:42,240 That's how that works. So you could say there's a 162 00:11:42,279 --> 00:11:45,399 long term strategy going on, but you're not going to 163 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,639 know what that is until we actually we're not going 164 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,399 to I should say, we're not going to know if 165 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:53,480 that strategy is successful until we get to that long term. 166 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,559 And if it's one thing I know about Americans, it's 167 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,000 that we are willing to put up with short term pain. 168 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,039 Speaker 4: I'm just kidding. 169 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: No, we don't. Yeah, we don't have any appetite for that. 170 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,120 All right, let's go to the phones and we'll talk 171 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,399 to Blake here. Hello, Blake, Welcome to the show. 172 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:11,759 Speaker 5: Hey Pete, how are you. 173 00:12:12,039 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 4: I'm good? What's going on? 174 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 6: Hey? 175 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 5: Just a quick question for you? 176 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:16,519 Speaker 4: Uh huh. 177 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 5: So, if if tariffs are bad, why are all the 178 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,799 of all the other countries enforcing tariffs against the United 179 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,799 States for a long period of time. If if if 180 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,240 tariffs don't work and they're bad. 181 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: So if you are out, why so, which country would 182 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,879 you like to discuss? Which country would you like to discuss? 183 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,200 Or are you just talking in general? Why does anybody 184 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,000 put in tariffs? 185 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 7: Yeah? 186 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 5: In fact, everybody on the list that Trump put up yesterday, 187 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:47,000 they're basically reciprocal. 188 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:47,759 Speaker 6: They're not. 189 00:12:47,879 --> 00:12:49,159 Speaker 4: Actually, no, they're not. 190 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,759 Speaker 5: So none of those countries enforced tariffs against the US. 191 00:12:54,919 --> 00:12:57,919 Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said they're not reciprocal. Even 192 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,120 Trump acknowledged that, so that that was not true. So 193 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,799 all of that narrative that they're just going to be reciprocal, 194 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,799 like for example, China, they have all sorts of what 195 00:13:08,919 --> 00:13:11,440 you know, the Trump administration said was like sixty seven 196 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,840 percent tariffs or whatever. But the tariffs that Trump slapped 197 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,679 on them yesterday or announced yesterday is not sixty seven percent. 198 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:24,360 So they're not he said, he promoted the fact that 199 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,879 because I'm lenient, I'm a nice guy, We're only going 200 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,440 to do half, So it's not reciprocal. Also, countries like 201 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:37,279 Israel that scrapped all of its tariffs, they still got 202 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,720 hit with the tariff. So if they'd got so they 203 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,480 got rid of the tariffs, and if it was reciprocal, 204 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,759 then America wouldn't be tariffing them. 205 00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:46,039 Speaker 4: So it's not reciprocal. 206 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: Now as to why do other countries put tariffs on 207 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,879 American products and services, is because they are also misguided 208 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,279 and we are the largest market and they're trying to 209 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,679 protect their own industries and such. I would submit it's 210 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:05,879 not wise policy. 211 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 5: Is that why there's a lot of foreign countrysider an 212 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,440 economic distress is because they're tariffs. 213 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,799 Speaker 1: Yes, they would be better, they would be doing better 214 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:24,039 if they allowed more trade to move more freely. That's 215 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:30,360 a voluntary. Involuntary trade, you have greater prosperity. But it's 216 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:36,879 a very it's a very seductive siren for politicians because 217 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:38,320 there is an old saying. 218 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:41,279 Speaker 4: Former North Carolina Governor Jim. 219 00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:42,679 Speaker 1: Martin said it the first time I ever heard it 220 00:14:42,679 --> 00:14:45,080 and said, see that man behind the tree, go tax him, 221 00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:50,759 don't tax me, And that guides too many politicians when 222 00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:57,240 looking at fiscal policy. They try to find the smallest 223 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,399 constituency that will bring in the most amount of money. 224 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,120 And so when you say we're going to tax those 225 00:15:02,159 --> 00:15:04,720 people in that other country. It sounds like a good 226 00:15:04,759 --> 00:15:09,120 thing for people in your country. But yeah, just because 227 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,039 other countries do a bad thing doesn't make it a 228 00:15:11,039 --> 00:15:14,600 good thing. And if Trump is using the tariffs in 229 00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:17,720 order to get people back to a zero and so 230 00:15:17,799 --> 00:15:21,120 there is actual free trade, then cool. 231 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,519 Speaker 4: I'm okay with that. 232 00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: But I don't think that that's It doesn't seem like 233 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,720 that's the strategy, because again, he slapped tariffs on countries 234 00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:32,799 that that had lower tariffs than the ten percent he 235 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:33,759 slapped on everybody. 236 00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:34,799 Speaker 4: That's not reciprocal. 237 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,919 Speaker 5: So do you think it is a fifty to fifty 238 00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:41,159 strategy of getting them to get to zero? 239 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 4: I have no idea fair trade, No I wish I do. 240 00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 5: Also, as a tax, a hidden tax to the. 241 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 6: US, it is. 242 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, tariffs are tax, and. 243 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,159 Speaker 5: He's got some pretty stiff tax cuts coming up if 244 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,600 those bills get passed. You know, no tax on social Security, 245 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,639 no tax on tariffs, no tax on overtime. And then 246 00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:06,919 the reinstates of twenty seventeen tax rates that we're pretty low. 247 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're still they're still in they're still in effect, 248 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,120 and they're racing a clock now to keep them to 249 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,120 keep them on the books. 250 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, correct, okay, yeah. 251 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, but if they expire, like if Democrats gumming 252 00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:26,679 up and they're unable to you know, to advance the 253 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:29,360 the tax cuts and keep it on the books, then yeah, 254 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,519 that's going to be another massive tax increase on people 255 00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:34,759 along with inflation. Right that we is now baked into 256 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,559 all of the pricing, right that you know from the 257 00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:38,559 Biden administration. 258 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,399 Speaker 4: So it's just we're getting nailed in every direction. 259 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:47,639 Speaker 1: And you know, the economists over the last century all 260 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,799 understand that tariffs are paid by the consumers in your 261 00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:56,440 own country because a product is coming onto our shores 262 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,240 and if I want to buy that product, and I 263 00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:03,279 have to pay more for that product because that's the tariff. Now, 264 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:09,000 the argument is that oh, the uh, the the other countries, 265 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,640 those those companies that are sending their products here, right, 266 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,599 because these are mainly companies, right, It's a company that 267 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,599 makes something overseas and sells it here in America, and 268 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,319 that the thought is that they're going to eat those costs, 269 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,359 not the American consumer. 270 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's I don't know if that's. 271 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,279 Speaker 1: Going to be true. Nobody does. That's the that's the gamble, right, 272 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:31,279 that's what they're gambling. 273 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think some of it's going to get 274 00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:36,079 by them and a lot of it's going to. 275 00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: Get passed on sure, right, I mean that's the old 276 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:39,559 I mean, that's the old. 277 00:17:39,799 --> 00:17:43,039 Speaker 5: Axis to be profitable, righting, go right? 278 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: And that companies don't pay taxes. Yeah, companies don't pay taxes. 279 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,000 Consumers pay the tax, right, the buyer pays the tax. 280 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,000 So yeah, yeah, go ahead. 281 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 5: So may I ask you other question? 282 00:17:55,079 --> 00:17:55,279 Speaker 7: Yeah? 283 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,519 Speaker 5: You're a pretty smart You're a pretty smart guy. You're 284 00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:01,400 pretty smart. Art you be doing this for a while. 285 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,279 So I'm a first time caller. Welcome, and I was 286 00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:09,880 I was intrigued by the conversation. So what's different about 287 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:15,960 the world economy and the US economy today than when 288 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,920 that tariff bill was passed, the catastrophic teriff bill sixty 289 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,279 years ago? Or what's different? 290 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 4: Wow? Lots different? 291 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,839 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, So you don't think there's anything different about 292 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:33,839 today's world economy and our economy that I just said 293 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,880 it was different, that would that that would support, that 294 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:42,279 would support a better outcome on this terroriff teriff initiative. Now, look, 295 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:44,839 because it's only part of it, it's only part of 296 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,440 his economic strategy. It is not his economic strategy. 297 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: Look, you are making assertions that, if true, would would 298 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,720 result in benefit. However, I don't know those assertions to 299 00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:00,799 be each and neither do you. 300 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,319 Speaker 4: That's thee And that's why I said at the. 301 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: Very beginning, at the outset Blake, That's why I said, like, 302 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:08,799 we're all going to be going on this white knuckle 303 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,680 ride and as yeah, and. 304 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 4: Some people are like, yes, let's do something different. 305 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 5: I believe it to be less of a white knuckle 306 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,720 ride than what you do. 307 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 4: Yeah. 308 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 5: No, that's my belief. 309 00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: Right, And I would submit that that's probably due to 310 00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:25,880 a trust in Donald Trump that I do not have. 311 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 4: You trust a little bit more. Yeah, you trust him 312 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:30,920 more than I do. 313 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know what your level of 314 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:34,799 trust is. 315 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, but I'm saying that your willingness to go 316 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,119 along for this ride with him is based on a 317 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,480 higher level of trust in what he's doing and what 318 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:44,200 his strategy. 319 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 5: I wouldn't consider myself a dumb a sheep. 320 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 4: I didn't follower it. I didn't say you were. I 321 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:52,759 said you have a higher level. 322 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 5: I didn't say you said I was. But I wouldn't 323 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,240 consider myself at okay, And I think Musk and Trump 324 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,000 are smart, smart people, and I don't think he has 325 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:07,319 I don't think Trump has any insidious you know, uh, 326 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,720 desires or outcomes and all this. I think he wants 327 00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:14,759 his head on Mount Rushmore to come out of this 328 00:20:14,839 --> 00:20:16,799 thing as one of the greatest presidents of the United States, 329 00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:20,240 and he's doing the things that he believes right well, 330 00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,559 get us the greatest benefit. That's what I believe. 331 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 4: I got you, Blake, I got a run. I appreciate 332 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:24,799 the call. 333 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: All right. If you're listening to this show, you know 334 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,960 I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, 335 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,039 and I know you do too. And you've probably heard 336 00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:35,119 me say get your news from multiple sources. Why Well, 337 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,880 because it's how you detect media bias, which is why 338 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,119 I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app 339 00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:44,480 and it's a website, and it combines news from around 340 00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:46,960 the world in one place so you can compare coverage 341 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,920 and verify information. You can check it out at check 342 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,359 dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link 343 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,519 in the podcast description too. I started using ground News 344 00:20:57,559 --> 00:21:00,279 a few months ago, and more recently chose to work 345 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:02,319 with them as an affiliate because it lets me see 346 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,200 clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind 347 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,000 spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the 348 00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:10,160 left and the right. 349 00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 4: See for yourself. 350 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: Check Dot Ground, dot News slash Pete. Subscribe through that 351 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,920 link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I 352 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:22,400 use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. 353 00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:25,359 Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it 354 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,519 also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape 355 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:33,279 more transparent. I began the hour by noting my bias. 356 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,880 My bias is towards free trade, actual free trade. So 357 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,279 that means, yes, if we're dealing with a country that 358 00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:44,079 is acting in a protectionist way against us, then we 359 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,480 have to account for that. So if we actually had 360 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:52,519 true reciprocity, and say, you know, Mexico was putting tariffs 361 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,359 on all of our stuff going there at ten percent, 362 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,720 then we could hit them with a ten percent also, 363 00:21:58,839 --> 00:21:59,599 and then we would be. 364 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 4: Equal. But that's not what Donald Trump has done. 365 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: They've got a formula and by the way, I'll get 366 00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:13,680 into that formula as well. And so the tariffs are 367 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,759 not quote unquote reciprocal. They're different These are set at 368 00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:21,519 different levels. There isn't really an explanation as. 369 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 4: To why. 370 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: My bias is towards actual free trade, because free trade 371 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:36,880 grows prosperity for all involved. I don't look at a 372 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,759 trade deficit the same as I look at a fiscal deficit. 373 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:48,359 A trade deficit I have, for example, with Amazon, I 374 00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:52,640 have a trade deficit with Amazon. I spend, I give 375 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,000 them money. Now I get stuff. But if I'm just 376 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,640 looking at the amount of money I send to Amazon 377 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,480 or to the sellers of the products, I am in 378 00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:09,079 the red there. However, I have a higher standard of 379 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,240 living because of the things that I have purchased. And 380 00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:16,880 if you look at the global economy going back forty years, 381 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:23,480 as free trade, as free market capitalism has accelerated throughout 382 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:30,279 the globe, the levels of prosperity have increased. One hundred 383 00:23:30,279 --> 00:23:33,359 thousand people every day are lifted out of poverty across 384 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,799 the planet. And that is a good thing. That is 385 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:39,960 a good thing, and that is through voluntary trade. It 386 00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:43,720 makes everybody richer, it makes everybody have a higher standard 387 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,200 of living. That's my bias, That's been my position for 388 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,960 twenty years. I'm a free trader. So if you want 389 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,880 to go after countries, and that does not mean that 390 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,400 I think that the relationship. 391 00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 4: With China and what they do is acceptable. I do not. 392 00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: I don't think they should be a most Favored Nation 393 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,640 trading partner, Absolutely not. Because they employ slave labor. You 394 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,519 cannot compete with that, and allowing them to operate that 395 00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,480 way and giving them money simply empowers them. That's not 396 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,279 free trade between the two countries in my view, right. 397 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,640 And if they're blocking our stuff going in there but 398 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,720 demanding that their stuff comes in here, that's not free 399 00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:36,359 trade either. So again, we're all going to find out 400 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:42,319 whether or not this global economic realignment. 401 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,599 Speaker 4: Works, and. 402 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: If it doesn't, my fear is we are all really screwed. 403 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,480 And me personally, I will tell you my bias is 404 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:59,720 that I work in an industry that is dependent on advertising. 405 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:04,400 The very first thing that companies cut when a recession 406 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,559 hits is advertising. 407 00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 4: And so. 408 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to maybe being out of a job soon. 409 00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:17,559 That's possible, right. Further erosion of purchasing power. After going 410 00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:21,160 through four years where I saw a fifteen percent declined 411 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,359 in my purchasing power thanks to inflation, right, I've taken it. 412 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:31,400 We've all taken pay cuts just from inflation, and then 413 00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:34,400 you know, have a house with a mortgage and lose 414 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,720 the gig, lose my job, and then can't afford the 415 00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,759 house anymore. Then try to sell the house, can't sell 416 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:45,000 the house because the house is now worth less than 417 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,319 what the mortgage is. So now I'm underwater on it, 418 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,839 and so then I go bankrupt. 419 00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:49,319 Speaker 4: See. 420 00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: So those are the things that I'm looking at and 421 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:56,400 I'm trying to project. So those are the unknowns for me, 422 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,240 those are my biases. And so when I hear, oh, 423 00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:04,079 this is going to generate money for the US government 424 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,759 through these tariffs, because that's what that's the pitch. It's 425 00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:09,000 going to bring in six hundred million dollars a year 426 00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:14,599 or whatever. Well, that's those are additional taxes paid by 427 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,880 Americans going into the US government coffers. So I'm not 428 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:28,400 thrilled about that. That's a tax increase on me. But 429 00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:31,480 maybe all of the other companies in all of the 430 00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:36,079 other countries, maybe they will eat all of the extra costs. 431 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,680 Maybe they will all renegotiate, right, that's possible. I hope 432 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,759 it happens. I really hope it happens, because if it 433 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:48,839 doesn't happen. I'm going to be in a world of 434 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:54,559 hurt economically. That's my bias. So that's my concern. And 435 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,119 maybe you don't share that concern. Maybe you're like, you 436 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,240 know what, let's go through it and this is going 437 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:00,799 to stick it to somebody else. 438 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 4: Or you know, I don't. 439 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you're willing to go through the pain because 440 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:10,559 somebody else deserves it that didn't get pained before, and 441 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:12,240 so this is going to give them pain. Now You're 442 00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:15,200 going to unwound yourself by wounding somebody else or something. 443 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 4: I don't know. 444 00:27:20,079 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: So this is from Keith A classic move guarantee. The 445 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,279 confluence of events happened. Slap tariffs on, go short on 446 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,119 the markets, the markets tank, buy back your stocks for 447 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,640 dirt cheap checkmate. Elon and Trump made a boatload on tariffs. 448 00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:40,400 I worked on the trading floor for years. I've seen 449 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,079 this all before. 450 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 4: Is that what it was? 451 00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: Do they short the market? Are people buying a bunch 452 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,359 of stocks now? Because what are we down three percent 453 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,680 on the market today? I don't know. I'm not telling 454 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,160 you I have these answers. I'm just like you. I 455 00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:00,920 have to sit back and watch from Afar and guess 456 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,079 how this is all gonna go. 457 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:08,599 Speaker 4: And I'm not confident. I am not confident all right? 458 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: So Spring is here a time of renewal and celebrations. 459 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,799 You've got graduations, weddings, anniversaries and the special days for 460 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,359 mom and dad. Your family's making memories that are gonna 461 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,000 last a lifetime. But let me ask you, are all 462 00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:24,039 of those treasured moments from days gone by? Are they 463 00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:28,759 hidden away on old VCR tapes, eight millimeter films, photos slides? 464 00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,400 Are they preserved? 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To Video 473 00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,680 Preserving family memories since nineteen ninety seven, Located in mint Hill, 474 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,599 just off four eighty five, mail orders are accepted to 475 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,079 get all the details that create a video dot com. 476 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,039 Let's all hope Trump knows what he's doing. That's the 477 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,440 position I'm in. I am not trying to tell you 478 00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:22,799 what to think about all of the tariffs and everything. 479 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:24,960 Not trying to tell you what to think. All I'm 480 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,799 telling you is my concerns. You don't have to share them. 481 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,039 I'm a libertarian, I don't. I'm not telling you how 482 00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,319 to live your life. You know, I'll tell you what 483 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:36,480 to think, how to think, or anything. I'm just walking 484 00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:40,000 you through sort of my thought process on this stuff 485 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:47,039 and trying to follow my own advice to be patient, 486 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,599 give it a minute, see what happens, and hope and 487 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:58,000 pray that this is of benefit, because I'm very concerned 488 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,960 it's not. All right, John, Welcome to the program. Hello John, Yes. 489 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:07,039 Speaker 6: Sir, tap into something, pep into some of your geniosity. Hey, 490 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,640 a little while ago, you said, the way things have 491 00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:13,839 been up to this point, we've experienced quite a bit 492 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,440 of properity. But how do you square that with a 493 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,720 thirty seven trillion dollar deficit? You know, have we financed 494 00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:29,559 prosperity in that way? Possibly? And so the rebalancing to 495 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,319 counter how we spent ourselves into it, and it wasn't sustainable. So, 496 00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,839 in other words, that prosperity we've experienced up to this 497 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,519 point is not sustainable. 498 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:46,359 Speaker 1: The deficit and the debt is different than a trade deficit, 499 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,039 right right, And. 500 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 6: We have financed the world by our ultimate thirty seven 501 00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:56,000 trillion dollars. 502 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: How do we how have we financed the world with 503 00:30:58,519 --> 00:30:59,640 thirty seven trillion dollars? 504 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 6: Well with supposedly the trade in balance, the trade imbalances 505 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,920 that we've had over time. 506 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 4: No, that's why I said they're different a trade. 507 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: So a trade deficit occurs when a country when a 508 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,559 company in another country sells more product into America than 509 00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:22,720 American companies sell out to that country. 510 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:25,279 Speaker 6: Well, I get that, But what I'm talking about maybe 511 00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:29,440 it's it's not a direct line necessarily, But if we 512 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:37,920 keep our revenue stream in trade is net negative constantly, 513 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,279 net negative constantly, that net negative. 514 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,039 Speaker 1: Then But that's not it's not that doesn't drain our accounts. 515 00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:49,160 That it's just saying that that we're buying more of 516 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,440 their stuff than they're buying of ours. Well, you know who, 517 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:54,880 Let me say it this way, hang on, do you 518 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,720 know who the do you know who? The number one 519 00:31:57,319 --> 00:31:59,519 manufacturing country is on the planet. 520 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 6: Take a guess, it's even gonna be US or China, right, China, right? 521 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 4: And number two is Us. 522 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,559 Speaker 1: We met and it's like, we manufacture a whole lot 523 00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:14,240 of stuff and we also export quote unquote services. So 524 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:20,079 the just because a country buys more or sorry but 525 00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:22,839 buys less from us than we buy from them, that 526 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,680 does not lead to deficits. The deficits that we have 527 00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:31,079 at a government level are due to our own government 528 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,880 spending money on unfunded things in the future like Medicare, Medicaid, 529 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,400 social security, right, the unfunded liabilities of like seventy trillion 530 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,559 dollars right that we're not we are not collecting revenue 531 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,519 enough right from from all for all of the programs 532 00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:48,079 that our own government does. 533 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 4: That's that's an US problem. 534 00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 6: Well, there's a spending problem, right right. But then if 535 00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:59,839 I'm talking about the tax consequences of having a more 536 00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:06,440 robust economy here would lead to a better balance here 537 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,680 or a better income statement on our side, and over 538 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,000 fifty years of. 539 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,039 Speaker 4: It, what is the purpose of the tariffs then. 540 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 6: Well, I think that what you alluded to earlier was 541 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:25,039 to get to fair trade. So it's negotiation negotiate exactly. 542 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 4: Okay, So it's not. 543 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: A revenue generating vehicle to offset the deficit, not the 544 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:32,759 trade imbalance, but the okay. 545 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 546 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: And if that's the case, then John, I guess, you know, 547 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,200 hopefully then it's to our benefit. But I just I 548 00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:41,440 don't know that to be true. I appreciate the call. 549 00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:44,599 I got to jump over here and get to Travis. Hello, Travis, 550 00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:45,279 Welcome to the show. 551 00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:46,359 Speaker 6: Hey. 552 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,359 Speaker 7: I was trying to figure out how the best condense 553 00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:55,759 my thought process here, and I think there's four possible 554 00:33:55,799 --> 00:34:01,039 ways that or ways that companies driving and the problem 555 00:34:01,079 --> 00:34:03,039 is I don't know which one it is, and I 556 00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:06,880 wish you would articulate one in Goali. The first goal 557 00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:10,000 that I see is if he's trying. 558 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 5: To repatriate American job. 559 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 7: Is that the goal and you just want stuff built here? 560 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 4: Him say that? Yeah? 561 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,519 Speaker 7: Is it that he's trying to reorient dependencies so that 562 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,400 instead of being dependent on autocracies like China, where dependent 563 00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:29,639 on democracies like India. I don't think that's the case. 564 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,920 I don't see I don't see him trying to cut 565 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,800 us off from China and vivid to India. Is he 566 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,920 trying to negotiate. And I did hear tex Franceman. He's 567 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,840 an Israeli journalist who I think works with the Foundation 568 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,360 for Defenseman Democracies. I heard him say. He sounded like 569 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,920 a journalist on background. He goes, well, it might be 570 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:58,039 that there's talks to resolve Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Gaza and 571 00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:01,679 Iranian nukes all in one big deal that involves China 572 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,119 and Russia. Maybe that could be. He sounded like a 573 00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,199 guy on the background. Anybody knows what I say. So 574 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,199 maybe that's why China gets lower tips. I just wish oh, 575 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:16,000 and the fourth possibility, because I was three. The fourth possibility, 576 00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:17,800 the way you can lay it out is it to 577 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,719 navigate to negotiate free trade. And the problem is, I 578 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:23,840 just wish you would tell us which I wish you 579 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,559 would come out and say, this is my priority. I 580 00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:30,400 want to repay treat jobs. I want to be a couple. 581 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:31,639 Speaker 5: From China one too one. 582 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,119 Speaker 7: I don't know what. I wish you would just articulate that. 583 00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:35,599 Speaker 4: No, I agree, Travis. 584 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,599 Speaker 1: And that's been part of the problem is I'm getting 585 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,639 different answers from different administration officials and even Trump, and 586 00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:44,480 so it's it's hard to know and you know, for 587 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,159 I think people who are you know, diehard Trump supporters, 588 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,920 they're okay with not knowing. They trust him, and you know, 589 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,480 his ambiguity is okay by them because they trust him 590 00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:58,599 that he knows what he's doing. 591 00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 4: And this is all for a reason, right. 592 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,639 Speaker 7: I think they pick one of those possible answers and 593 00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:10,599 they run with that. Some most swear, oh, this is what. Yeah, anyway, 594 00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:11,239 thank you so much. 595 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 4: No, those are yeah, those are good ideas. I appreciate 596 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,199 the call, Travis. 597 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: Uh, there is a fifth possibility is that, uh, Donald 598 00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:21,599 Trump doesn't actually know what he's doing at a larger level, 599 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,320 he just really likes tariffs because he's really liked tariffs 600 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:32,480 his entire life. That's also possible that there isn't any 601 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,519 other grand strategy at play here. It's just he wants 602 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:42,440 tariffs because he thinks tariffs are are good. And this again, 603 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,400 this is a position that he has articulated. 604 00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 4: His own. 605 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,119 Speaker 1: People sent out on social media a clip of him 606 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,719 on the Oprah Winfrey Show back in like the nineties 607 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,719 where he was talking about all these other countries. I 608 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,800 think at the time it was it may have been 609 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,280 Japan and somebody else. I'd forget and he was talking 610 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,880 about how they're eating our lunch, they're making all these VCRs. 611 00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:08,079 That's how old the clip was, and he was he 612 00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:12,719 was calling for tariffs back then. So he has remained 613 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,119 consistent on the tariff issue over the course of his 614 00:37:18,639 --> 00:37:22,079 public life that whenever he's talked about this, he's always 615 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,719 had the same position. He wants more tariffs on other countries. 616 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,719 So that could also be it that there isn't any 617 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:35,199 other kind of larger strategy at play. He has talked about, 618 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,320 you know, bringing companies, manufacturing facilities, jobs and such back 619 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,119 into America through these tariffs. If you don't want to 620 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,159 pay the tariff, well to just make the stuff in America. 621 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,960 Right again, I can understand that, but you should expect 622 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,159 every other country to also do the same, right, and 623 00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:59,119 then that suppresses trade and that then lowers prosperity. That's 624 00:37:59,199 --> 00:38:02,880 just the historical record. So but maybe there's a better 625 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,360 strategy of play here that I don't know. 626 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,039 Speaker 4: All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you 627 00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:09,039 so much for listening. 628 00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: I could not do the show without your support and 629 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,039 the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, 630 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,480 So if you'd like, please support them too, and tell 631 00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:18,239 them you heard it here. You can also become a 632 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,960 patron at my patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, 633 00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:25,719 thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything 634 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,119 while I'm gone.