Speaker 1: Calling all beings, y'all part of people. Put those hands
Speaker 1: together for calling all bees. I'm your host DJ, and
Speaker 1: can I get up everybody who's backstage that you're about
Speaker 1: to meet that's in the green room. We have an
Speaker 1: amazing panel built around my homegirl, Mizzi, who is the
Speaker 1: number one. She is the Tom Brady of Sandra burchmore support.
Speaker 1: So while this will be a little bit of a
Speaker 1: fun intruth, the seriousness of the topic of which we're
Speaker 1: about to tackle is not lost on me nor any
Speaker 1: of my guests. So keep that in mind, as we
Speaker 1: certainly will keep it in mind. Thank you Julie for
Speaker 1: manning the chat. There's a whole bunch of people here.
Speaker 1: We're gonna say hi to everybody tonight and we will
Speaker 1: get those questions in at the end. So it's gonna
Speaker 1: go round table portion, open conversation and chats and super
Speaker 1: chats and all that. And sometimes we may go right
Speaker 1: to super chats because you guys asked amazing questions last
Speaker 1: time that we had a round table, and it took
Speaker 1: like thirty minutes to get through through them all, and
Speaker 1: we were not gonna, uh, We're gonna make sure we
Speaker 1: honor all of them. So all right, let's let's get
Speaker 1: right to it. Let me make sure if the music
Speaker 1: is turned on, I don't want it to overshadow it
Speaker 1: looks like it is turned on. So this young lady
Speaker 1: right here, as I mentioned, is the number twelve. She
Speaker 1: is the Tom Brady of Sandra Birchmore, the champion of
Speaker 1: this cause, and someone whom everyone on this panel admires.
Speaker 1: So let's bring on Missy in the heavy life.
Speaker 2: Then Lizzy, everyone hows to go in?
Speaker 1: Can I get a.
Speaker 3: Missy?
Speaker 4: Amen?
Speaker 1: Thank you girl? All right, next up right here is
Speaker 1: my man. I don't know if you guys got to
Speaker 1: see him. If you watched any of last weekend's standouts,
Speaker 1: you were gonna see this gentleman. I believe that he
Speaker 1: was in debt him. You will hear his voice saying
Speaker 1: hello to the agreed party, Miss Karen Reid, and man,
Speaker 1: all the stuff that he's doing. We're not aware of
Speaker 1: all of it. We're aware of some of it. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're aware of all of it. And
Speaker 1: I don't even know if anybody is. All the things
Speaker 1: that Peter is doing behind the scenes for this topic
Speaker 1: to bring justice to both of these ladies one unfortunately
Speaker 1: deceased Miss Sandra Birchmore, Karen Reid, who is fighting for
Speaker 1: her freedom, and of course Officer John o'keef, so put the.
Speaker 5: Hands together for Sergeant Peter Murphy. All right, hey man, brother,
Speaker 5: look at him all right?
Speaker 1: Without what not? Mandsome? All right, bring it, that's right.
Speaker 1: This man is ready. That's why Sean loves him so much.
Speaker 1: He's ready to go at any time. Man, He's not
Speaker 1: no cream puff. All right. Uh, let's mind this young
Speaker 1: lady right here. Oh my goodness, she's had a couple
Speaker 1: of amazing episodes. I tweeted one out the other day.
Speaker 1: I believe she had on day call name the producer
Speaker 1: for that show on barstool or as Missy might say,
Speaker 1: Batstool Sports, and those guys did just an incredible job.
Speaker 1: And the Case podcast the Case if you really want
Speaker 1: to get inside, and least in terms of audio, the
Speaker 1: most information about what happened with Sandra Burchmore. And and
Speaker 1: now it continues as we move forward, and we're going
Speaker 1: to get into that. But this young lady is an
Speaker 1: amazing content creator whom I admire, and she is absolute
Speaker 1: appointment listening. And I'm I'm really glad she's gonna be
Speaker 1: an upcoming guest on Calling Out beings where I'll get
Speaker 1: to ask her questions outside of we're on a terrible format,
Speaker 1: so part of.
Speaker 5: People put their hands together for the legal medical homie
Speaker 5: legend nurse.
Speaker 6: Can't hello everyone, DJ you you every single time, Okay,
Speaker 6: this is I'm not gonna be able to fit my
Speaker 6: head through a door with you telling giving me an
Speaker 6: entrance like this each and every time.
Speaker 7: I am so appreciative.
Speaker 1: You deserve it. I mean everybody here thinks the same
Speaker 1: thing when they watch the shows, whether it's on TikTok
Speaker 1: or YouTube. So yeah, I'm so glad you're going to
Speaker 1: join me for that other episode. This gentleman right here
Speaker 1: is another gentleman I kind of think of one of
Speaker 1: the hashtag Unafraid. Of course he's a grifter like me,
Speaker 1: but noted drip there. But he has just been on Twitter,
Speaker 1: appearing on people shows giving them his valuable time to defend.
Speaker 1: Now both of these women with what they went through
Speaker 1: and without him, I mean, what are our chances of
Speaker 1: getting on a legal mind like this. I mean they're
Speaker 1: very very slim. You know. We have Melanie Little who
Speaker 1: blessed us in the community. But there's Emily I believe
Speaker 1: her name is Emily D. Baker, who's amazing. But there
Speaker 1: they are very very few. So with that, we're glad
Speaker 1: to have him on for maybe his third appearance or second,
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but hopefully there'll be many more.
Speaker 5: Put your hands together for attorney, Mark, for Celtics fan
Speaker 5: is in the building.
Speaker 4: World champion, Celtics fan, thank you, But yeah.
Speaker 1: That's a world champ. You know what, do you have
Speaker 1: a number thirty three somewhere in your closet?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 8: Yeah, we do, but I guess maybe eighteen times world
Speaker 8: champion and the other numbers we should throw out or
Speaker 8: we'll just leave it.
Speaker 1: Is I Is this because I told you I was
Speaker 1: a Knicks fan? Is this what this is about? Mark?
Speaker 1: I get it absolutely.
Speaker 8: I'm surrounded by you know, Giants, Jets, Nicks, Mets, Yankees.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you had Red Hour back, we had Red Holtzman.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? You know what? Do we
Speaker 1: chop live over here? So anyway, all right, let's let's
Speaker 1: jump right into it. So we're gonna get into the
Speaker 1: round table. I thought I would kick us off with
Speaker 1: the question, uh and then and then we can take
Speaker 1: it around the horn. So I'm gonna pass it to Mizzy,
Speaker 1: She's gonna look to her left, pass it to Sergeant Murphy,
Speaker 1: who's gonna look down diagonally in our Brady Bunch square
Speaker 1: here and go to Attorney better Row and then onto
Speaker 1: legal medical egen nurse Kim. So my question to you, Missy,
Speaker 1: is who do you think will be implicated by Farwell,
Speaker 1: to the best of your knowledge and perhaps information, probably Robs.
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, I don't know how much he
Speaker 9: wants to implicate his brother, but definitely Robert Divine that
Speaker 9: might be the person to help his case a little bit,
Speaker 9: because you know, other witnesses have said to me that
Speaker 9: he's the one who groomed them, you know, to be
Speaker 9: to be predators. I mean, they always had it in them,
Speaker 9: but he took them under their his wing and helped them. Alonge,
Speaker 9: is it.
Speaker 1: You who mentioned on another show that his brother uh
Speaker 1: has has U was not let's say, he was not
Speaker 1: protect William or Billy was not protective of Matthew. Is
Speaker 1: that okay? I didn't know where I heard that, So
Speaker 1: we'll leave that to Peter Murphy. Peter, who do you
Speaker 1: think will be implicated.
Speaker 6: Sir.
Speaker 10: Uh, I probably would stick with.
Speaker 2: Probably gonna go after Bob Devine, right, because I would
Speaker 2: miss he just said pretty much.
Speaker 10: I don't know, Maybe he'll go after Maybe you'll have Bill.
Speaker 10: I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 10: I mean, is he gonna is he gonna roll? Is
Speaker 10: he gonna flip? Is he gonna vomit? Try to make
Speaker 10: his best deal?
Speaker 1: You?
Speaker 10: What do you think? What do you think is gonna
Speaker 10: be the outcome here?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Mark, Mark spoke about this with Melanie and Mark,
Speaker 1: I believe you said you didn't think that there was
Speaker 1: really good cause for him to flip.
Speaker 8: Well, the issue with him, I mean, death is on
Speaker 8: the table right now. That that's certainly a motivating factor
Speaker 8: to clap your but realistically it's not going to be
Speaker 8: a death penalty case. But even if he were to cooperate,
Speaker 8: he's going to have to do tantamount to life in prison.
Speaker 8: So is he willing to cooperate? I don't know as
Speaker 8: far as who could be next. This is going to
Speaker 8: sound like a cop out answer, but I don't know.
Speaker 8: I mean, we just don't know whether he's going to cooperate,
Speaker 8: whether he's even found to be credible if he does cooperate.
Speaker 8: Are they looking more at sex crimes that might not
Speaker 8: rise to the level obviously of these horror funding things
Speaker 8: that happened to Sandra Birchmore And are there statutal limitations
Speaker 8: issues how serious or unseerious the crimes are, or are
Speaker 8: they looking at some of the people who investigated this. Again,
Speaker 8: this is all speculation, but you'd have to think that
Speaker 8: the US Attorney is concerned with some of the conduct
Speaker 8: that occurred from the state police.
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, one of the obvious people
Speaker 4: with that is.
Speaker 8: The cell phone guy who couldn't Guarino, who couldn't pick
Speaker 8: up a lot of this evidence apparently, and he failed
Speaker 8: to pick up some pretty significant evidence from Jennifer McCabe's
Speaker 8: phone in Karon Reid. So, you know, I think that's
Speaker 8: a possibility. But in all fairness, you know, we're speculating.
Speaker 8: I don't know what else they already know, and who
Speaker 8: else has already come in, where else they're looking and
Speaker 8: the detail I mean, the indictment was what four pages,
Speaker 8: which is about as thin a federal indictment as you'll
Speaker 8: ever see. There were some affidavits for the detention hearing
Speaker 8: that you saw some things, but the universe of knowledge
Speaker 8: that they shared and the documents that have been filed
Speaker 8: is nothing. So God only knows what else is going
Speaker 8: on and what they know. But as far as who's next.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Good ca. I mean, yeah, I heard we had two
Speaker 1: Robert devines. We'll see what Nurse Kim's thinking. I just
Speaker 1: want to say, Peter, I went to mut it on
Speaker 1: your mic simply because our voices are coming out of
Speaker 1: the speakers of your laptop and in through the mic.
Speaker 1: So when you're when you want to say something, whenever
Speaker 1: it is, if you need to interrupt whatever, just hit
Speaker 1: unmute on your microphone. Can see that that's right here.
Speaker 10: This is a new setup. Is there anything I can
Speaker 10: do to make this?
Speaker 1: No? Just no, We'll just have to get you some earbuds.
Speaker 1: Once you get earbuds, that all the sound and the
Speaker 1: voice will be in your ear and not because right now,
Speaker 1: can you it's coming out of your laptop speakers and
Speaker 1: in through your laptop microphone, So we're getting that feedback
Speaker 1: to watch when I get rid of it. When I
Speaker 1: go like this, you can't hear it now. Test test tests,
Speaker 1: so just just hit this on mute when you want
Speaker 1: to talk. Can you see that I do? Okay? All right, brother,
Speaker 1: all right? Also I want Roami thank you so much, Homie.
Speaker 1: I greatly appreciate the the nineteen ninety nine. Greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Uh And if you have questions, please let me know
Speaker 1: and we will get to it. Nurse kim ma'am. Who
Speaker 1: do you think is implicated? Next?
Speaker 10: Man?
Speaker 11: Yeah, So I'm just gonna go a little bit different
Speaker 11: and I'm just i'd love to see where we're gonna
Speaker 11: be with Chief McNamara if there is going to be
Speaker 11: any evidence that perhaps other things were going on in
Speaker 11: the department that he would like to say, you know,
Speaker 11: she's no, she's known about all of it.
Speaker 7: If so, again, it's all speculation.
Speaker 11: But at the end of the day, she was supposed
Speaker 11: to be the oversight divine was above farewell. But then
Speaker 11: you know, Chief McNamara has to take accountability at the
Speaker 11: end of the day. So I would like to, uh
Speaker 11: see if that pans out to anything.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, Uh that that that that totally that
Speaker 1: totally makes sense of the way, you know, we could
Speaker 1: we could see things go. Uh just wait and also
Speaker 1: you know there was word yesterday about possible shake ups
Speaker 1: in both those departments, according to Sean and and I
Speaker 1: believe that it was Javier Basquez. I just want to
Speaker 1: say hello. Something in the chat I love this perscutto song,
Speaker 1: which what's thank you? That is so awesome? So anyway,
Speaker 1: anybody here not like perscutto anyway.
Speaker 4: Just one thing.
Speaker 8: There's a lot of discussion in the chat about, oh,
Speaker 8: he waived this attention hearing. That's because there's a new lawyer,
Speaker 8: and the new lawyer wants to be credible, obviously asking
Speaker 8: for bail at this moment on behalf of a guy
Speaker 8: who was indicted for the crime that he was and
Speaker 8: then staging a suicide and potentially facing charges for killing
Speaker 8: an unborn child. He's not getting released.
Speaker 4: He's going to be held.
Speaker 8: The lawyer is simply being credible. It's a feudal argument.
Speaker 8: Perhaps at the future date they'll they'll do that when
Speaker 8: they get prepared, but probably not. This guy's going to
Speaker 8: be rotting in federal custody, probably for the next several decades.
Speaker 8: But it's not he's not waiving a hearing because he's
Speaker 8: rolling over, or the lawyer is stupid, or he doesn't
Speaker 8: want this. It's the lawyer making that decision, saying this
Speaker 8: is not credible and you have no credibility, and only
Speaker 8: the lawyer can even make you look remotely credible in
Speaker 8: that situation, and asking for bail for this guy is
Speaker 8: just ridiculous.
Speaker 4: So that's all that is.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't read into it meaning anything more than the
Speaker 8: lawyer telling the client we can't ask for bail right now.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, no pun intended. Sandra, Excuse me, look at that.
Speaker 1: I just called missy Sandra. This is so weird. I
Speaker 1: told you I'm totally ready to hook you up with
Speaker 1: the medium who can communicate with Sandra, even though I
Speaker 1: know he's already you sent you communications in the mornings.
Speaker 1: But anyway, what's your topic, hypothesis or question? My friend?
Speaker 9: I want to talk about uh Morrisey's office, and it's
Speaker 9: specifically Lieutenant Fanning because I'm trying to say this in
Speaker 9: a nice way. He's a liar. I could specifically speak
Speaker 9: to that because I spoke to him and one of
Speaker 9: the things that he lied about to me specifically was
Speaker 9: he said, oh, Farewell was really careful in his communications
Speaker 9: with Sandra. He wasn't saying much at all in texts.
Speaker 9: He was very very careful, and him and I went
Speaker 9: around and round, and I kept bringing it back up
Speaker 9: that I thought she was murdered, and he said, oh, no,
Speaker 9: I know what you know, I know I know what
Speaker 9: she was. She killed herself. I you know, I've seen
Speaker 9: thousands and tons and not necessarily thousands, but tons and
Speaker 9: tons of suicides and trust me, trust me, she killed herself.
Speaker 9: And he also said, uh, I forgot what I was
Speaker 9: gonna say. He also said that, you know, Sandra was
Speaker 9: very secretive, and I said that's because of the grooming,
Speaker 9: and he's like, yeah, but you know, she was very secretive,
Speaker 9: and you know she was messed up. So I want
Speaker 9: I want him to get a lot to eat because
Speaker 9: he lied to me, he lied to the family and
Speaker 9: repeatedly lied to Sandra's family.
Speaker 1: Sergeant Murphy, John So John, John, Fanny, your your thoughts
Speaker 1: saw John Fanning, Sergeant Murphy and he got unmute. Now
Speaker 1: you see of that?
Speaker 12: Yes we got to go, Yeah, yes, sir, Yeah, I
Speaker 12: think he's got I think he's got some huge culpability here,
Speaker 12: the investigation, the crime scene search.
Speaker 10: What the hell is he doing with a case that
Speaker 10: he was.
Speaker 2: Working, you know, in the same department, and then that
Speaker 2: goes back to what Missie was just talking about. As
Speaker 2: far as looking at Marssy, I mean, what is Marsy
Speaker 2: doing putting a family friend like Proctor in charge of
Speaker 2: one case and now putting Fanny Fanning in charge of
Speaker 2: a case that he worked with the suspects in. I mean,
Speaker 2: it just it just flies in the face of reason,
Speaker 2: and I think he's he's got a real problem. Who knows,
Speaker 2: maybe that'll be where.
Speaker 10: Where Farwell goes with his first flip. I don't know.
Speaker 4: There could be other players.
Speaker 2: As as Mark said, there could be other players, even another.
Speaker 1: Sorr. We just got Suzanna here.
Speaker 3: I might have given you a little.
Speaker 1: Nice I thank you. I didn't see you at the
Speaker 1: bottom of the screen, so thank you. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: you're here and you'll be able to go right after,
Speaker 1: right after Peter Murphy, I'm sorry if I interrupted you. Peter,
Speaker 1: are you were you?
Speaker 10: I think I pretty much got to where I wanted
Speaker 10: to go with that.
Speaker 2: That Fannings got some huge culpability here, and as and
Speaker 2: he ties it if they say that the fish rots
Speaker 2: from the head back or the head down, I guess
Speaker 2: that puts Marcy at the head, but fannings Fanning somewhere.
Speaker 1: In the middle. Yeah, I'd like I'm going to extrapolate
Speaker 1: on this when we get to Nurse Kim, or at
Speaker 1: least extrapolate on uh Missy's question we get to Nurse Kim.
Speaker 1: But before that, welcome missus Ann. It's an honor to
Speaker 1: have you on calling all beings. And did you hear
Speaker 1: the Missy's question when you were in the when you
Speaker 1: were in the chat.
Speaker 3: Oh, I've been I've been waiting with baited breath. Don't worry.
Speaker 10: I'm on.
Speaker 3: I'm on every every bit of it. Don't you worry.
Speaker 3: And I if I may, it's some point I want
Speaker 3: to piggyback off of those points.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're going to go after Peter brings up his topic.
Speaker 1: Your topic is next, so go ahead.
Speaker 10: Uh what so?
Speaker 1: Did you have anything you wanted to add on Fanning
Speaker 1: or did you want us to go to go to Mark?
Speaker 1: Oh she's a mute.
Speaker 3: You said, Well, you said, Peter, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3: When have a re Peter was still finishing the point.
Speaker 1: I believe he was finished.
Speaker 10: I'm done with Fanning.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm not done with Fanning. So in terms of it,
Speaker 3: I guess a procedural question, if you will, was Fanning
Speaker 3: assigned to the role as lead detective in this case
Speaker 3: or did he insinuate himself via you know, it's sort
Speaker 3: of declaring a working knowledge of the facts of the
Speaker 3: town from that Sander was from and police programs, et cetera,
Speaker 3: knowing the players in the case. Or did he have
Speaker 3: to say, you know, or did his supervisor assign him
Speaker 3: to it and then it just went awry from there
Speaker 3: because the supervisor being detective, Sorry, is it lieutenant detective
Speaker 3: or the other way around? Gerard Metalliano who has since retired.
Speaker 3: I think he retired mid case.
Speaker 1: Actually, Peter, if you want to weigh in on that,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have let's see. There you go, okay,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're man, there you go. What are you
Speaker 1: looking for?
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, then you're looking for the name on on
Speaker 10: that Oliano.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I I'm down with Mettaliano. I'm wondering
Speaker 3: did he did he make Fanning, you know, take this
Speaker 3: case or you know Fanning and done for that matter,
Speaker 3: or was it just a sign in the due course
Speaker 3: of today, here's where you are, you know here, here
Speaker 3: is where you're going, because I think it's an important
Speaker 3: point whether or not he insinuated himself, sort of in
Speaker 3: Procter style, as being somebody who could contribute something which
Speaker 3: we now know is obviously the opposite.
Speaker 10: I can only speculate that.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there's ahead of that DA's office
Speaker 2: who we know who it is. And I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody should be in a position to just insert themselves
Speaker 2: into an investigation.
Speaker 4: I think they have to be assigned.
Speaker 2: Rightly or wrongly, and I would say that had to
Speaker 2: come from the top, and shame on them for allowing it.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, while we're still on that topic, you know,
Speaker 3: Gerard Mettaliano seemed to have a pretty vast knowledge of
Speaker 3: similarly conflicted cases that were fraught with issues such as
Speaker 3: I don't know who's familiar with the Brian Johnson case
Speaker 3: out of out of Millis. Metaliano was in charge of
Speaker 3: investigating this gentleman who was very new to the force,
Speaker 3: and he was in a relationship with a with a
Speaker 3: high school girl, and at some point, while he was
Speaker 3: being reprimanded that the relationship was not a good look,
Speaker 3: he had a public meltdown shot up his cruiser in
Speaker 3: this grandiose effort to draw attention to himself and become
Speaker 3: a victim, and Talliano was to summarize it the sort
Speaker 3: of bad cop in the room versus I don't remember
Speaker 3: who the good cop was vetting this guy and eventually
Speaker 3: bringing him down. So given his knowledge of situations of
Speaker 3: that ilk, didn't he see anything wrong with this investigation?
Speaker 1: That's an interesting I hadn't heard him, referenced, sir.
Speaker 10: I was just gonna say with a big y e
Speaker 10: s he must should have.
Speaker 1: Thank you for adding that context. Mark, would you have
Speaker 1: anything on Fanning or what Miss Susanne just said.
Speaker 8: I mean, this guy's going to be the poster child
Speaker 8: of a disastrous investigation. The same way Michael Proctor is
Speaker 8: anonymous with the Cameron Reid investigation. I mean it's his investigation.
Speaker 8: He did a terrible job. He obviously missed a lot
Speaker 8: of signs as well as with other people.
Speaker 4: And the proof is in the pudding.
Speaker 8: Just on the way he did his work and the
Speaker 8: lack of professionalism in certain parts, which is only going
Speaker 8: to make the community feel less secure or less comfortable,
Speaker 8: and how the policing is there and The only example
Speaker 8: you need is when they first find, you know, a
Speaker 8: young lady, you know, terribly apparently hanging herself on a doorknob.
Speaker 8: It's understandable that you would have an initial literally night
Speaker 8: of incident, working theory that this.
Speaker 4: Looks to be a suicide.
Speaker 8: But you know, you go where the facts are, you
Speaker 8: don't reach a conclusion, and then kind of put the
Speaker 8: square peg in the round hole, and they just missed
Speaker 8: in him, as the lead investigator, missed so many signs.
Speaker 8: But I think what you can't avert your eyes to
Speaker 8: are at some point when you know that this guy Farewell,
Speaker 8: if nothing else, is just a dirt bag for what
Speaker 8: he was doing with a child, the way he was
Speaker 8: grooming her, having relations with her.
Speaker 4: He's married.
Speaker 8: I mean, he held his newborn child apparently, we now know,
Speaker 8: within a short period of time after apparently killing his
Speaker 8: own unborn child apparently. But this is all going to
Speaker 8: come back to him when you look at the report
Speaker 8: that he filed in this case, with his interview of
Speaker 8: Matt Okay in a.
Speaker 4: Parking lot.
Speaker 8: In an investigation of a suspicious death suicide, whichever it was,
Speaker 8: and for the state Police not even to say officer farewell,
Speaker 8: come to the department and do a formal interview in
Speaker 8: the DA's office. Right, They were more than willing to
Speaker 8: offer up, you know, facilities during other cases and whatnot.
Speaker 4: That's what you do.
Speaker 8: He's not Matt. The report itself is comically thin. It
Speaker 8: appears to be very self serving. You know, it certainly
Speaker 8: contains information which is disparaging, if that's the right word
Speaker 8: of Sandra, whether the facts are true or not. You know,
Speaker 8: obviously the things that he said to Missy, I can't
Speaker 8: speak to any of that, but that that sounds terrible.
Speaker 8: And at the end of the day, if they were
Speaker 8: having problems and he's the lead investigator, and you know,
Speaker 8: we can't get into the cell phone that you know,
Speaker 8: the other agency had no problem getting into the same
Speaker 8: way the other agency had no problem getting into in
Speaker 8: Karen Reid's case and in other cases. Why didn't they
Speaker 8: seek that other agency's help to get into the phone
Speaker 8: and this investigation, Why didn't they ask more questions or
Speaker 8: see more things that were disturbing which clearly suggested that
Speaker 8: this did not appear to be a suicide, based on
Speaker 8: her demeanor, her happiness about having a new child. Interview,
Speaker 8: These witnesses. It appears to be one giant whitewash for
Speaker 8: whatever reason, I don't know why. I don't know why
Speaker 8: they would be so quick to just dismiss a serious
Speaker 8: investigation like this, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: you know he's the Michael Procter of this when this
Speaker 8: goes sideways, so sucks for him, I guess.
Speaker 1: And before we toss this over to Nurse case In, Glare,
Speaker 1: thank you for showing up. It's pleasure to have you
Speaker 1: back here in the chat. If you would please check
Speaker 1: your or if you'd follow me, I want to DM
Speaker 1: you because I would like to get you on calling
Speaker 1: all beings as well, So thank you for stopping in again, sir.
Speaker 1: I also watch your show and come in the chat
Speaker 1: and Miss Jessica and b check your dms as well,
Speaker 1: because we're supposed to finalize a date for you to
Speaker 1: be on CAP so with if you do that, please,
Speaker 1: if you follow me, Glair, I can d M you.
Speaker 1: We'd get you get you set up on here U
Speaker 1: and Jessica as well, and Nurse Kim. I felt like
Speaker 1: I just want to put a little bit of a
Speaker 1: spin on this. I've really admired of that that episode
Speaker 1: where I want to say it was Turtle Boy, Kirk
Speaker 1: and Dave, which was an outstanding episode. But I it
Speaker 1: seems like Kirk is a little bit too charitable in
Speaker 1: terms of what Fannings and tensions might or might not
Speaker 1: have been. I think Mark is a little more charitable,
Speaker 1: and I think everything's purposeful. I don't think things were
Speaker 1: mistake were mistaken. I think they were done for cause.
Speaker 1: But what's your take on that? Man?
Speaker 11: Yeah, So I respect Kirkmanahan, I respect Dave Colinane, and
Speaker 11: I respect heavily Mizzy and Suzanne. This is my first
Speaker 11: time getting to internet meet you, and I just wanted
Speaker 11: to say thank you so much for all of your activism,
Speaker 11: for you never stopping, and for you keeping the pressure
Speaker 11: and the pedal like to the metal and we're.
Speaker 7: On our way.
Speaker 11: You know you guys, and it's all because of you.
Speaker 11: So you know, just round book base.
Speaker 7: Amen.
Speaker 11: So, just as it relates to Fanning, I've spoken with Dave,
Speaker 11: you know, off we've gotten you know, him and I
Speaker 11: are very close. We work on our show together and
Speaker 11: he's like a little annoying brother that I never wanted
Speaker 11: but I have, So we are aware of conversations that
Speaker 11: have occurred with Fanning talking, you know, to directly to
Speaker 11: Dave and Kirk, saying that women are emotional, okay, when
Speaker 11: relating this to Sandra Birchmore's apparent suicide at the time,
Speaker 11: women are emotional and that she made an impulse decision
Speaker 11: and like basically look the other way. He told the guys,
Speaker 11: what are you doing? Like why do you keep pursuing this?
Speaker 11: She did this to herself, like, you know, get over it.
Speaker 7: That's enough.
Speaker 11: And I think that at the end of the day,
Speaker 11: Michael Proctor is going to look like t ball.
Speaker 7: Compared to the Boston Red Sox of what.
Speaker 11: Fanning's incredible negligence, his malfeasance, and potentially his collusion with
Speaker 11: the Department of Stoughton to make.
Speaker 7: This go away and not be a headache for them.
Speaker 11: I also want to remind everyone that troop of Fanning
Speaker 11: had access to thousands of text messages, not Burno. It
Speaker 11: was found from Sandra Birchmore's laptop. It was all in
Speaker 11: her cloud, thousands of messages and texts. And when I
Speaker 11: lined up the AffA David to the Stoughton the Town
Speaker 11: of Stoughton report from twenty twenty two, there is the
Speaker 11: line where Matthew Fowell is admitting to a statutory rape
Speaker 11: of fifteen year old Sandra Birchmore that was heavily redacted
Speaker 11: but by dates and the only context of me too
Speaker 11: at the end of the sentence that was a response
Speaker 11: from Fowell that lines up exactly to one of the
Speaker 11: forty five pages. I believe it's page eight of the
Speaker 11: FBI after David. With that being said, there is no
Speaker 11: innocent explanation to that they knew about it.
Speaker 7: They did nothing, and they.
Speaker 11: Have this blood literally on their hands, in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And that is awesome. Me I, I have to agree
Speaker 1: with you. I don't think there is innocence or or
Speaker 1: mouth east and so I think everything was done with
Speaker 1: How do we how are we going to just think likely?
Speaker 1: You know, we're in New England. We come from England
Speaker 1: and what is what is England about? And Mark talks
Speaker 1: about this all the time in England. It's function follows form.
Speaker 1: It's how everything appears is what matters, not what's actually true.
Speaker 1: It's what the appearance is. And there's this is exactly
Speaker 1: what these guys are. We can't have a stoton cop
Speaker 1: you know, you know, implicated for this woman's death. We
Speaker 1: got to figure out how to cover it up. Kind
Speaker 1: of a Boston cop, you know, implicated in the death
Speaker 1: of John o'keeth. You know, we got to find some
Speaker 1: schmuck depending on Unfortunately the schmuck ended up with smarter
Speaker 1: than all of them. Peter, what what is your topic, sir?
Speaker 1: This evening question or hypothesis. We've got to get them
Speaker 1: off mute. There you go, you have to unmute the topic.
Speaker 2: Who was going to be already brought up, which was
Speaker 2: going to be the Fanning situation, which did get addressed
Speaker 2: pretty well.
Speaker 10: I think, you know, I think maybe that I could
Speaker 10: I could.
Speaker 2: Transition over to the crime scene investigation, which obviously brings
Speaker 2: in the Canton police to a degree. My understanding is
Speaker 2: that there were many offices on the Canton Police who
Speaker 2: either were at the scene initially or who rather report,
Speaker 2: saw some crime scene photos and basically said, tam school
Speaker 2: could clue that was no way a suicide.
Speaker 10: I've had this conversation with.
Speaker 2: Mizzi before, and that was out of the that was
Speaker 2: right out of the jump, right out of the box,
Speaker 2: or can't in police officers was saying that, Yet it
Speaker 2: came to be a suicide between Fanning and the medical examiner,
Speaker 2: which I guess is another major concern that we ought
Speaker 2: to think about as far as the evidence that appeared
Speaker 2: to make it not a suicide, however it was deemed.
Speaker 2: You know, the hyoid, all the many signs and symptoms,
Speaker 2: the ligatures, right, you know A to Z?
Speaker 10: Where do you want to go with that?
Speaker 2: And there's a plethora of stuff that anybody could comment
Speaker 2: on there, so about it.
Speaker 1: I will throw it around. If you were watching on
Speaker 1: YouTube right now, if you would take a moment to
Speaker 1: give us a like and a subscribe to the channel,
Speaker 1: if you'd be so kind, and really, it's hit it.
Speaker 1: And now let's get on to somebody who's got some
Speaker 1: damn expertise on this case. Miss Suzanne home girl.
Speaker 3: I'm humbled by the insinuation and I'm in the presence
Speaker 3: of greatness tonight. I can't. I'm geeking out already. But
Speaker 3: what if? What if?
Speaker 1: You mean to kick it out? Every time I have
Speaker 1: these people on? So what do you think crime scene?
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's so much there, but yeah, is
Speaker 1: there something that sticks out to you? Like one aspect
Speaker 1: of it? Because we wanted what we want to do
Speaker 1: here is we want to get through the roundtable portion
Speaker 1: so we can get to open discussion. You guys can
Speaker 1: just kind of throw stuff at one another, So go
Speaker 1: ahead on that.
Speaker 3: Well, so, I mean, crime scene wise, it's there's a
Speaker 3: million at this point. We all know there's a million things,
Speaker 3: but with stands out the most we already know from
Speaker 3: from the FBI's drop of how did you guys miss this?
Speaker 3: How did you miss how did you miss the laundry?
Speaker 3: How did you miss the necklace? How did you miss
Speaker 3: all of those things? And didn't even take a cursory
Speaker 3: little pause, slight look away from what seemed to be
Speaker 3: a pre predetermined conclusion without a second look? Where was
Speaker 3: your duty to care in that regard? And I'm giving
Speaker 3: more of another rhetorical question than an answer, but these
Speaker 3: are these are the things that are our mind blowing
Speaker 3: at this point. How did you not take a moment
Speaker 3: to consider those things? And hey, guess what the FBI
Speaker 3: is asking that too, Like, I don't know if we
Speaker 3: can swear on how the f did you miss that?
Speaker 1: And and why was it or was it considered and disregarded?
Speaker 1: For cause? That's I think what Kim and I asserting
Speaker 1: here ye, Because that's.
Speaker 3: Where I'm going with that is how did you? How
Speaker 3: did you miss this? And and the I would say,
Speaker 3: I want to add, just from a you know, compassionate
Speaker 3: point of view, the flagrant disregard for a family member
Speaker 3: pointing certain facets out such as, hey, did you guys
Speaker 3: notice this the necklace here? That's broken? That was that
Speaker 3: was part of her that was that was an important detail.
Speaker 3: And the sweeping dismissal of oh, no, it's just there
Speaker 3: because the room is messy, and there's and and there's
Speaker 3: hair because there's cats running around. How dare you, sir?
Speaker 3: Is that's where I go with that. No pause, no,
Speaker 3: I mean not even human decency and reflecting on that
Speaker 3: being an important detail. So that's that's a big thing
Speaker 3: for me, and I'm sure for anyone who's who's read
Speaker 3: the case files.
Speaker 1: And the necklace. The family found the necklace, and I
Speaker 1: think the Vegas cops who are on with Mark the
Speaker 1: other night said they're always going to make a mistake.
Speaker 1: And Farewell had to have missed that. He had to
Speaker 1: have been in a hurry, and he had to have
Speaker 1: missed it because he wouldn't have you know, clearly, he
Speaker 1: would have if he would have saw that he knew that,
Speaker 1: that would have been an outlier. But anyway, the crime
Speaker 1: scene market, sir.
Speaker 4: Well, I say this all the time. If people listen
Speaker 4: to me, it gets repetitive.
Speaker 8: But I get all Colombo and the famous little things
Speaker 8: which nag, and really, with a trained investigator should nag,
Speaker 8: especially when you again come across what appears to be
Speaker 8: a suicide. But the most basic investigation should have immediately
Speaker 8: led them to challenge that initial theory and just follow
Speaker 8: the evidence and dig deeper. And for me, it's the
Speaker 8: freaking laundry. Okay, nobody who has ever going to kill themselves,
Speaker 8: especially in a manner like that which you know, not
Speaker 8: to get graphic and all of that.
Speaker 4: It takes some effort.
Speaker 8: I mean, if you believe that she would do that,
Speaker 8: and would do that, particularly in the condition that she
Speaker 8: was in, knowing how excited she was to have a
Speaker 8: child and all of that. But the idea that she
Speaker 8: would make sure to change the laundry literally on the
Speaker 8: list of things to do before killing yourself, ordering DoorDash
Speaker 8: same concept, that just makes little sense to me. All
Speaker 8: the other clues that everyone else just mentioned that were missed,
Speaker 8: and if they simply kept those little things in mind.
Speaker 8: It doesn't mean they necessarily conclude that it wasn't a suicide,
Speaker 8: but if they keep more of an open mind, maybe
Speaker 8: they were a little more motivated to actually investigate rather
Speaker 8: than just sweep it aside and victim blame from what
Speaker 8: was being described by some of the other members saying, ah,
Speaker 8: you know, she's just an emotional troubled girl and that's horrible,
Speaker 8: and the other you know, the medical evidence is really
Speaker 8: disturbing because anybody unfortunately who has any familiarity with uh,
Speaker 8: you know, choking's strangulation and whatnot, understands the whole hyoid
Speaker 8: bone thing and as you know that that's generally strangulation
Speaker 8: as opposed to a partial weight hanging, which would not
Speaker 8: do that. I mean, these are things that investigators, including
Speaker 8: the medical examiner.
Speaker 4: How do you miss that? How do you and why is.
Speaker 8: It that in all of these cases that come out
Speaker 8: of the same jurisdiction, that are supervised by the same
Speaker 8: district attorney, the same local police department, the same guys
Speaker 8: from the state police, why do they always end up
Speaker 8: having to go to the Feds, who then have to
Speaker 8: put on their big boy pants and hire their own
Speaker 8: own expert to figure it out.
Speaker 4: I mean, Karen read again.
Speaker 8: They had to call in the ARCA people to tell
Speaker 8: us what it is, in this case, the ARCA witness
Speaker 8: for lack of a better term, with They had to
Speaker 8: get a separate medical examiner.
Speaker 4: This is crazy that you shouldn't have to do that.
Speaker 8: That's insane that you can't even rely upon the medical
Speaker 8: examiner and the state police and the district attorney's office
Speaker 8: to do anything. So it's just one giant failure across
Speaker 8: the board. But to me, it all goes back to
Speaker 8: the little things. If they just paid attention to them,
Speaker 8: maybe they'd be a little more motivated to do the
Speaker 8: right thing. And the last thing is it's extra awful
Speaker 8: because when they finally find out what happened here and
Speaker 8: what he did, if it's not bad enough that this
Speaker 8: was a young girl who joined an explorer's program to
Speaker 8: learn life skills, to learn how to be a responsible
Speaker 8: young adult, how to be mentored by police officers who
Speaker 8: you're supposed to run to and trust, not get groomed, raped, killed,
Speaker 8: and then framed for your own murder, essentially by staging
Speaker 8: a false suicide and hearing what everyone is saying about
Speaker 8: the reaction of some of these state police guys, which
Speaker 8: is little more than just a shrugger your shoulders and
Speaker 8: saying she's just an emotional, troubled girl who cares. This
Speaker 8: is I mean, honestly, this is revolting at at a
Speaker 8: whole other level, and it's just this is quite gross.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and allegedly Mark that this lieutenant was allegedly was
Speaker 1: involved in somehow marshaling or the the Karenry jurors, and
Speaker 1: so it would beg the question, you know, why is
Speaker 1: he involved in that when they're when they had witnesses
Speaker 1: that were testifying on the stand that we're his colleagues.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody can confirm that. I don't know, Peter.
Speaker 8: I don't touch that because I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 8: We have a problem that needs to be discussed. I
Speaker 8: just don't know if that's accurate. I have no idea.
Speaker 4: I have a lot to say about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, please please let us know, Peter, if you're
Speaker 1: able to find out if that was the case, if
Speaker 1: if he was actually at the courthouse and was involved
Speaker 1: in some uh in some measure of dispelling or dismissing
Speaker 1: or removing those those two jurors that Turtle Boy believes
Speaker 1: we're pro kring red jurors, and now he's talked to
Speaker 1: at least two of them. So I mean, uh, anyway,
Speaker 1: so let's move on. Uh So I think we hit
Speaker 1: that Kim. Did you get to speak to that one
Speaker 1: and we went back to the mark or no?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I just would like to say just a feel
Speaker 11: so as it relates to the crime scene.
Speaker 7: Just bringing it back to that is that when Trupa.
Speaker 11: Dunn met Lank and McCord at Sandra's apartment complex, he
Speaker 11: noted in a memorialized report from February seventeenth, twenty twenty one,
Speaker 11: like when I read through it, it stated that around in
Speaker 11: the room of her bedroom right that there was an
Speaker 11: army ACU Duffel bag ACU pattern Duffel bag. Now, Babes,
Speaker 11: I don't know about you, but for me, that was
Speaker 11: and it ended up being that strap that was tied
Speaker 11: around her.
Speaker 7: Okay in this alleged self takeout.
Speaker 11: Now, Matthew Farwell and Billy Fowell are like very skilled
Speaker 11: they were in the army.
Speaker 7: I know that Matthew was an explosives you know tech.
Speaker 11: I think from two thousand and four to two thousand
Speaker 11: and eight, and William was actually higher up in his
Speaker 11: Army service. And however like as a as a ranking,
Speaker 11: he had even a higher one. Now Sandra, I know,
Speaker 11: did go to basic training or she had, you know,
Speaker 11: enlisted in the army, but she was not there long.
Speaker 11: She didn't make it through a goop camp. A specific
Speaker 11: ACU duffel bag would have been something that when you're
Speaker 11: looking at what you are alleging that this victim had
Speaker 11: affixed herself to a closet and a door knob, that's important.
Speaker 4: And it's just.
Speaker 7: One line, one line in this little report.
Speaker 11: And I was just shocked that that didn't spark a
Speaker 11: little bit more interest. I looked down, I went down
Speaker 11: a rabbit hole, but I could only find I thought
Speaker 11: it was Army combat unit.
Speaker 7: But it's only Army.
Speaker 11: Camouflage, so potentially depending on the digital whatever of it,
Speaker 11: like however the print was, but you know those are
Speaker 11: That was just something that stood out to me and
Speaker 11: I thought, well, I mean, this is this firewell leaving
Speaker 11: a calling pod babe, you know what I mean?
Speaker 7: Like that he is if that was his bad or something.
Speaker 11: You know, that just was very uncomfortable, along with her necklace,
Speaker 11: along with the nine thousand, six hundred and forty four
Speaker 11: other things that did not point to Sandra Birchmore in
Speaker 11: any way, shape or form attempting to not want to
Speaker 11: be here with her and her.
Speaker 7: Child in the future.
Speaker 11: Okay, and I just I mean, I could go into
Speaker 11: the medical examine and stuff.
Speaker 7: I won't keep it on the scene, but that was very.
Speaker 11: Important, and I think that everyone should try to go
Speaker 11: back and look at those mass State Police reports if
Speaker 11: they have a chance to.
Speaker 1: That's a great detail. And in fact, Miss Jessica and
Speaker 1: Miss Jessica and b is in the chat. He was
Speaker 1: Army EOD and when she deployed, I think Farwell's unit
Speaker 1: support her. That's one of the things that we were
Speaker 1: tweeting about on or we were dming about on Twitter,
Speaker 1: was her army career, and I believe one of Farmel,
Speaker 1: one of Farwell's units supported hers. As far as the
Speaker 1: ACU business, I deployed with the Army as a civilian
Speaker 1: after I retired from the Air Force to do some work,
Speaker 1: and all the body armor I got was ACU patterned.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, I don't think she would
Speaker 1: have been able to leave basic training with any uniforms,
Speaker 1: they would have taken those, but an army Duffel bag.
Speaker 1: They'll typically take you down to go shopping at the
Speaker 1: PX or the MINIPX during Basic so that you can
Speaker 1: buy toiletries, you can buy different items there, and she
Speaker 1: very easily could have bought an ACU Duffel bag there
Speaker 1: at the PX, because I know we did that when
Speaker 1: way when I was in Basic, we went down there
Speaker 1: and bought swag and brought it back to the dorms.
Speaker 1: And that was stuff that after you graduated Basic you
Speaker 1: could take with you. It was your personal stuff, not issued.
Speaker 1: It's quite possible that it was her duffel bag that
Speaker 1: she got from the BX. But it's something that we
Speaker 1: should look into because we could ask a family member
Speaker 1: that did she come home with an ACU Duffel bag
Speaker 1: from basically, So it's a great question mark you wanted
Speaker 1: to I'm going.
Speaker 8: To add one thing we were talking about, what did
Speaker 8: they miss? They're missing one of the most obvious things.
Speaker 8: Anytime there's a suspicious death, you're looking did anybody have
Speaker 8: an obvious motive to harm her? I mean, it's just
Speaker 8: this is like common sense investigation one oh one. And
Speaker 8: I don't think you need to be a genius to
Speaker 8: figure out married man okay, on duty police officer, full career,
Speaker 8: has kids with wife literally one right after Sandra died.
Speaker 8: Can anyone think of a reason why perhaps a guy
Speaker 8: living that so called, you know, good life that he
Speaker 8: had might not want the so called troubled girl who's
Speaker 8: given him a hard time is very much wants to have.
Speaker 4: His baby and wants to be known.
Speaker 8: And he did everything he did to her previously, she
Speaker 8: becomes a problem. That doesn't mean that anyone in his
Speaker 8: situation necessarily kills anyone, But how does that not jump
Speaker 8: out at you and say that's something we have to
Speaker 8: look into and dig deep before we just you know,
Speaker 8: suicide this away and pat officer farwell on the head
Speaker 8: and say go back to doing solid police work and.
Speaker 4: Have a nice life.
Speaker 8: I mean, they just I don't know how he doesn't
Speaker 8: become an obvious immediate suspect that gets heavily scrutinized. And
Speaker 8: when he says I deleted my messages, well what did
Speaker 8: you delete? And dig and dig and go to go
Speaker 8: find go to the FBI, go to whoever get the
Speaker 8: information and be tenacious and if he didn't do it,
Speaker 8: then give him a clean bill of health.
Speaker 4: But put the effort in for Christ's sakes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're getting great, great comments in the chat
Speaker 1: about all these different aspects of what we're talking about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, I think, don't I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what this one says here, but where is it here?
Speaker 1: Because of corruption? Right anyway, the topic now belongs to.
Speaker 9: I didn't get to say. I didn't get to talk.
Speaker 1: On the sub How do we forget the principle? How
Speaker 1: do you forget Tom Brady? We're in the huddle and
Speaker 1: I'm looking around and like, I'm ready to clap, and
Speaker 1: there's no Tom Brady.
Speaker 9: Go ahead, Tom, Well, somebody actually just you just kind
Speaker 9: of zip by somebody's comment that I was going to make.
Speaker 9: There's two two, A couple of things. Her phone that
Speaker 9: was right by her leg, you know. I another thing
Speaker 9: I got fanning to admit. I specifically asked him did
Speaker 9: her phone stop moving before he left? And he said yes.
Speaker 9: He said he thought she killed herself as he was leaving,
Speaker 9: and I was like, okay, yeah, And also it pertains
Speaker 9: to the crime scene, but it's they extended into the hall,
Speaker 9: the hallway where you know the video of him coming
Speaker 9: in and out. I mean, you see that video and
Speaker 9: you could tell this guy is up to something. My
Speaker 9: other issue is with the Canton Police. There were five officers,
Speaker 9: four reports that I have, and every officer has something
Speaker 9: listed differently of what was used as for the ligature.
Speaker 9: And that's a problem for the Canton Police department. That
Speaker 9: is a huge issue. Why couldn't these officers agree on
Speaker 9: what she hung herself with if she had done that,
Speaker 9: you know that. That was one of the issues that
Speaker 9: made me say what is wrong with this? And to
Speaker 9: kind of end my thing is the name that they
Speaker 9: me and Suzanne talk about mention this all the time.
Speaker 9: What they named the case the black light case. And
Speaker 9: you know what you find with black light?
Speaker 13: Oh, blood splatter, right, the other thing you find with
Speaker 13: black light, Peter, because they were trying to that.
Speaker 9: She was, you know, permiscuous and stuff like that, so
Speaker 9: they had to use a black light and you know,
Speaker 9: in her apartment and to investigate her. So even in
Speaker 9: the title that they used to investigate her case was
Speaker 9: disparaging against her. Like we've mentioned the necklace, there is
Speaker 9: no reason why that necklace wasn't found by what there were.
Speaker 9: I believe four Canton police that went in, one didn't
Speaker 9: really go into the crime scene, and then all the
Speaker 9: rest of the Massachusetts State Police officers that went in,
Speaker 9: none of them found found that necklace. And it had
Speaker 9: to be a family member that brought it forward. That
Speaker 9: is utterly unacceptable. Somebody should have seen that necklace.
Speaker 8: Not only is that unacceptable, but it makes it harder
Speaker 8: for the fence. I'm not saying it's going to matter.
Speaker 8: This guy's got real problems, but you know, he's going
Speaker 8: to argue they didn't see it because it wasn't there.
Speaker 8: I mean, he's going to use that to assist his defense.
Speaker 8: So as awful as it is now that you know,
Speaker 8: everyone seems to believe that this monster, alleged monster did
Speaker 8: this terrible thing, the either misconduct or incompetence of these
Speaker 8: initial cops actually potentially harms the case against you know,
Speaker 8: the real bad actor here. And it's so it's just
Speaker 8: they're the awful gift that keeps on giving there. I mean,
Speaker 8: this is just a train wreck at every level that
Speaker 8: these guys have left.
Speaker 9: Let's hope it's in crime scene photos so he can't
Speaker 9: you know, so they did get.
Speaker 4: Hopefully it won't matter ultimately.
Speaker 8: I mean, this guy's he's he's got real problems, but
Speaker 8: it's just atrocious police work and a lack of respect.
Speaker 8: And again the only word that comes out is revolting.
Speaker 4: I mean, this whole thing makes you want to take
Speaker 4: a shower and throw up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very very it's very very disturbing, and I
Speaker 1: think I want to say so. Missy pointed out the
Speaker 1: a side of that record about the necklace. I pointed
Speaker 1: out that that Farewell missed it, and she pointed out
Speaker 1: the more important point is that the police didn't document it,
Speaker 1: that it was found by a family member. And the
Speaker 1: other thing is, I believe Missy in Fannings report he
Speaker 1: was sort of making alluding to the fact that she
Speaker 1: had been with other officers to make her appear more promiscuous.
Speaker 1: Was it was that Fannings report, well.
Speaker 9: Throughout the report, it was they were trying to make her,
Speaker 9: you know, sound crazy, like she was a whore, a badge, bunny,
Speaker 9: you know, whatever you want to call it. And it
Speaker 9: was it was just basically to make her look bad
Speaker 9: and stare it away from you know, these guys. And
Speaker 9: also they Wan. I've spoken to a bunch of witnesses
Speaker 9: that they've spoken to, and witnesses that they never even approached.
Speaker 9: That's egregious too. There are so many witnesses, her friends
Speaker 9: that they never even contact. What I'm finding out is
Speaker 9: the only people that they approached were the people who
Speaker 9: actually called them. They had to interview her teachers because
Speaker 9: they were the ones who reported it. They didn't even
Speaker 9: call like some of her closest friends they never spoke to.
Speaker 9: That's insane that they would have been able to figure
Speaker 9: out what was going on.
Speaker 1: In her life.
Speaker 4: Sounds familiar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to find out too much information, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because then you know that could lead to an officer
Speaker 1: being guilty guard you know, and they are. I'm sure
Speaker 1: they are, Like Peter knows, there are great officers in
Speaker 1: Canton and in Stoton and an MSP. We're talking about
Speaker 1: some real idiots and rot people that are just criminals.
Speaker 1: They're criminals. They just happened to wear uniform, but they're criminals.
Speaker 1: So all right with that, let's go to Suzanne. Now,
Speaker 1: what would be your topic? Man from mister Veto.
Speaker 3: Actually that was a great segue. DJ. It's not my topic,
Speaker 3: but you mentioning about the good the good officers, And
Speaker 3: I actually raised this question with an official that I
Speaker 3: was able to meet recently and said, okay, so you
Speaker 3: have the good, good officers who are trying to recover
Speaker 3: from this heinous situation and trying to make peace with
Speaker 3: it so that they can protect and serve without this
Speaker 3: dark cloud over their heads. What are you you know,
Speaker 3: what's being done to secure their mental health so that
Speaker 3: they can excel as the good guys who protect and serve,
Speaker 3: Because that's a huge problem. And so you've got the
Speaker 3: good guys who who are honorable officers that want to
Speaker 3: protect and serve the right way. But how can they
Speaker 3: do that if their work is put on pause to
Speaker 3: look over their shoulders for guys who are going to
Speaker 3: retaliate against them or say, hey, remember that thing you
Speaker 3: just saw or heard or that call that came in. No,
Speaker 3: you don't know, you didn't, and now they're you know,
Speaker 3: they're frightened. I don't want to characterize how they would react,
Speaker 3: but let's just say, off balance from doing their job.
Speaker 3: We want them to feel secure. We want them to
Speaker 3: be okay doing their jobs, and the only way to
Speaker 3: do that is to have a safe atmosphere, and to
Speaker 3: think to ask an official in charge of these things
Speaker 3: and say just sort of pivot back to me, you
Speaker 3: know what do you think? I thought, Okay, I'm not
Speaker 3: I ain't the one to give that answer. I had
Speaker 3: it on good authority that you might know, sir. Then
Speaker 3: they don't seem to have a solution to that. So
Speaker 3: that's that wasn't my topic. But since you mentioned it,
Speaker 3: topic apart from the issue of Fanning's assignment that day
Speaker 3: was it's about our our guy, Robert Divine, and I
Speaker 3: would I'd love to hear Mark's input on this as
Speaker 3: a point of fact that I don't know what to
Speaker 3: do with. Really is that so Robert Devine is currently
Speaker 3: he's an attorney, Robert Devine esquire And in terms of
Speaker 3: time frame, we know that February first the day that
Speaker 3: Sanders last day he communicated with her in some way.
Speaker 3: February second he swore into the bar. February fourth was
Speaker 3: when she was found. I guess I just put that
Speaker 3: question into the ether. What if anything, does that does
Speaker 3: that mean? Thanks, What if anything does that does that mean?
Speaker 3: Is that problematic? Is that indicative of something?
Speaker 1: What do you find from that? Mark, Wow, what if anything, well,
Speaker 1: in what way?
Speaker 4: I mean, what is him being a lawyer?
Speaker 8: Which is bizarre admittedly in this whole twisted thing. I'm
Speaker 8: not sure what being a lawyer has to do with
Speaker 8: this bizarre timeline. But you know, lawyers when they get
Speaker 8: admitted to practice have to pass you know, a character
Speaker 8: and fitness examination. I'm assuming when he filled out his
Speaker 8: application and got interviewed for that, he did not include,
Speaker 8: you know, have been credibly accused of grooming and having
Speaker 8: inappropriate contacts with children. It's a bizarre timeline. I don't
Speaker 8: to me though, if he just happened to get sworn
Speaker 8: into the bar, I don't know how it works in Massachusetts,
Speaker 8: but certainly in New York, that's just the day they
Speaker 8: give you, you know, depending on when you took the
Speaker 8: bar exam, when you passed it. And it sounds like
Speaker 8: one coincidence, and I don't know that there would be.
Speaker 4: Any relation about it.
Speaker 8: But as far as the other stuff, why would he
Speaker 8: be communicating with her on the.
Speaker 4: Day that she died?
Speaker 8: I don't, I mean, why do they have any relationship
Speaker 8: at that point after what you know, he had to
Speaker 8: have known was happening to her and what his buddies
Speaker 8: perhaps did. And he's how many years older than her?
Speaker 8: And you know, as of a couple of years ago,
Speaker 8: why would he be communicating with.
Speaker 4: Her at all? But I don't know what to draw
Speaker 4: from that, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you Mark that the assignment of
Speaker 3: the date swhere in because I've got it in front
Speaker 3: of me. So it was in January that the assignment
Speaker 3: you know, to come in and swear in was in January.
Speaker 3: The swearing in was the day after the last contact
Speaker 3: with Sandra, but in two days before she was found.
Speaker 1: So those are those are.
Speaker 3: Just the you know, sort of the nagging questions of yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 8: I mean, are you suggesting that he tried to give
Speaker 8: himself kind of an alibi during this time period?
Speaker 4: I mean, I just don't know what.
Speaker 3: Although I'm not suggesting anything other than it's the timeline
Speaker 3: is sketchy. Yeah, No, not not an alibi per se,
Speaker 3: because he communicated with her the day she she died.
Speaker 3: And he just disputes it. He says, no, I didn't,
Speaker 3: that wasn't really me. That name you have from Facebook
Speaker 3: that you think is me, is is really mel Gibson?
Speaker 3: You know so, so it just it's just one of
Speaker 3: those nagging things that stands out is does it mean
Speaker 3: something or is it just another you know, like Nurse
Speaker 3: Kim said, another wormhole that you're diving down and can't
Speaker 3: see the light of day because you're obsessed with it.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know.
Speaker 8: I mean again, I don't know what having contact with
Speaker 8: her and then getting sworn in and then doing whatever
Speaker 8: he did. I mean, if people have busy lives, I mean,
Speaker 8: look at Farewell, he was able to pencil in in
Speaker 8: his calendar, apparently commit murder, stage it to his suicide
Speaker 8: and you know, run to the hospital and hold my newborn.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 8: That's probably one of the most grotesque facts in this
Speaker 8: hole sick and sordid tail.
Speaker 4: But you know it, I don't know. I just don't know, Jim.
Speaker 1: Do you find any serendipitous confluence of events anything to
Speaker 1: do with Robert divine ascension to attorney at law and
Speaker 1: and and and his messages with Sandra.
Speaker 3: Are you asking me?
Speaker 1: No, I'm asking Nurse Ken. I think she's on mute.
Speaker 4: I think she's frozen.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Oh I was can you see me, yes, ma'am?
Speaker 7: Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Guy now man, all.
Speaker 11: Right, So, uh do I think that there is a
Speaker 11: correlation between Divine and the dates? Listen, I don't believe
Speaker 11: that anything is just a coinky dink. Okay, it does
Speaker 11: not for me in this because of all I don't know.
Speaker 11: It just everything can't be just this is another one
Speaker 11: for the team in my opinion. And I don't think
Speaker 11: that Robert Divine being a lawyer, and I've looked at
Speaker 11: his records, okay, because it's all public record, right, his
Speaker 11: practice is in Easton, right, guys, So you know, I
Speaker 11: was looking at his court filings and what I like,
Speaker 11: you know, of his of his LLC.
Speaker 7: And I'm just like he it was just a.
Speaker 11: Very interesting transition that he made. He made it at
Speaker 11: a very at a very interesting time. Is it related,
Speaker 11: I you know, do we know know? But I would
Speaker 11: say that for myself, just seeing everything, I have a
Speaker 11: skeptical eye with it all.
Speaker 4: Now in my.
Speaker 1: Opinion, yeah, that that totally makes sense. It's just they're
Speaker 1: just really weird thing. They're very very bothersome coincidences in
Speaker 1: this case, well, in the case of holding the baby,
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence. But but in this case, I
Speaker 1: think it's very coincidental. Mark holding the baby DJ.
Speaker 11: Oh, I'm so sorry, but holding the baby DJ in
Speaker 11: the same sweatshirt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that he killed? I know. I mean, this dude
Speaker 1: is he's a monster. I mean, you guys have described
Speaker 1: him aptly on different shows. I've heard you and mar
Speaker 1: Can other people, and as he describe this guy, he
Speaker 1: really is a monster. And people freak out. They're like, man,
Speaker 1: this guy was on the street. Can you imagine what
Speaker 1: he could have done to another innocent person that just
Speaker 1: said or did the wrong thing. It's very scary.
Speaker 8: You groom them, you're there, you're supposed to be mentoring them,
Speaker 8: and I mean they come right in.
Speaker 4: I mean, these are kids.
Speaker 8: Looking to be with cops and they respect cops, and
Speaker 8: the cops are supposed to train them.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's worse than anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is.
Speaker 8: But this is also part of the you know, if
Speaker 8: you deal with sex abuse and exploitation of children, that's
Speaker 8: part of the grooming stuff. If you have a credible
Speaker 8: position and role that people look up to, that's easy.
Speaker 8: I mean you can lure them in because you're in
Speaker 8: a position of trust or you're supposed to be, and
Speaker 8: it's all just sickening. But yeah, I mean, it's not
Speaker 8: surprising at all that it would happen in something like
Speaker 8: an explorer's program because the kids are looking and want
Speaker 8: to trust the cops, and it's the exact opposite.
Speaker 1: It's and it's I want to just say further, It's
Speaker 1: happened in my own in the military. It's happened between
Speaker 1: senior enlisted and junior enlisted. It has happened between UH
Speaker 1: company great officers and junior enlisted, and those people end
Speaker 1: up out of the service or in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't only happen there. It's it's just police
Speaker 1: are very I said, have a conversation with somebody today. Police,
Speaker 1: even a town police officer like Peter was was, is
Speaker 1: very very powerful. A four star general drives off base
Speaker 1: wearing a golf shirt, flax and a sports jacket as
Speaker 1: non a town police officer can take away his freedom
Speaker 1: just like that in a traffic style for any reason
Speaker 1: that they choose. A four star general has no power
Speaker 1: off of a base, but even a town police officer,
Speaker 1: not to mention a state police officer or somebody at
Speaker 1: that level, or someone at the federal level, there's an
Speaker 1: enormous amount of power that it takes a certain type
Speaker 1: of mindset like Peter to corral that that ego and
Speaker 1: just keep it in check so that you don't overstep
Speaker 1: your boundary. And if someone has criminal proclivities, it doesn't
Speaker 1: take long to figure out, Hey, I can enforce the law,
Speaker 1: but I can break the law whenever I want to.
Speaker 1: And then obviously we're seeing that happen. For somebody in
Speaker 1: the chat that mentioned that, I want to say that
Speaker 1: real quick, that is, oh, are you serious. I want
Speaker 1: to say that this is not a state. This is
Speaker 1: not a Massachusetts thing. The one party state in the
Speaker 1: political stuff has nothing to do with it. This has
Speaker 1: happened in North Carolina. This has happened in Florida. This
Speaker 1: has happened extensively in my home state of New York,
Speaker 1: and particularly in New York City. Mark and I have
Speaker 1: discussed several incidents in New York City. This has happened
Speaker 1: in South Carolina. There are many states.
Speaker 4: Phone yesterday in New York City.
Speaker 8: I mean literally the chief of the NYPD, our commissioner,
Speaker 8: had his phone day. I mean it's as part of
Speaker 8: an investigation at the alleged corruption that may or may
Speaker 8: not involve people close to Eric Adams, who's the mayor
Speaker 8: of New York City.
Speaker 4: So it happens everywhere.
Speaker 8: But it's also important when somebody says our cops are bad,
Speaker 8: you can't be that broad stroke. That's it's not fair
Speaker 8: to good cops, including one who's on this panel.
Speaker 1: Even while this may be true, there's Peter Murphy's Peter
Speaker 1: Murphy's and Sean McDonough's, and Javier Vesquez and those two
Speaker 1: gentlemen Gonzo and I can't remember the other gentleman from Vegas. Awesome,
Speaker 1: awesome police officers. So anyway, all right, so Mizzy, did
Speaker 1: you want to react to your buddy Suzanne's your colleagues topic.
Speaker 9: I just think it's absolutely disturbing that he's still a
Speaker 9: lawyer in practicing.
Speaker 2: To me.
Speaker 9: That that's to me, it's inappropriate that this man is
Speaker 9: able to practice as a lawyer.
Speaker 4: Not good for business. I can tell you that law
Speaker 4: I mean, let's what.
Speaker 8: I don't know what kind of law he practices, but
Speaker 8: getting clients with being wrapped up in this is probably
Speaker 8: not the best business model.
Speaker 9: The problem with that is there's a lot of people
Speaker 9: who I mean, now, after what happened last week, people
Speaker 9: are hearing names, but his name isn't really being bounced
Speaker 9: around with it. It's mostly Matthew. So, I mean, we
Speaker 9: do a lot of standouts in Stone, like we've done
Speaker 9: one almost every month and down into the town town square,
Speaker 9: and there's so many many people that don't even realize
Speaker 9: that Sandra Birchmore is from Stone. They think that she's, Oh,
Speaker 9: she's that Canton girl that got murdered. So so he's
Speaker 9: getting to represent people from in an area that people
Speaker 9: don't even know that he's in a part of this case.
Speaker 9: And that's what I find disserving that, like he's able
Speaker 9: to operate with nobody really knowing what what he what
Speaker 9: he did to Sandra Birgemore because he is this He
Speaker 9: was part of the grooming. He did abuse Sandra. I
Speaker 9: mean he was having activities in cars with Sandra and
Speaker 9: Clindestine meetups with Sandra. He was part of the abuse
Speaker 9: of Sandra. And he and like I said before, he
Speaker 9: did groom the boys.
Speaker 1: They were little.
Speaker 9: Scumbags when they were a little young too, but he
Speaker 9: did take them under his wing. Someone that Robert Divine
Speaker 9: specifically groomed himself, who was in the class with these boys.
Speaker 9: Is the one who said it he was grooming them too.
Speaker 9: So this guy, to me, it's just astounding that he
Speaker 9: is able to still operate as a lawyer.
Speaker 8: And I'm not defending him, let me be clear, I'm
Speaker 8: just being the lawyer. He's not charged with anything at
Speaker 8: the moment. He's not formally accused of anything. And the
Speaker 8: way the system is is he enjoys a presumption of
Speaker 8: innocence the same way Farewell does. And you you know
Speaker 8: he that's a hard concept. But clearly if he gets
Speaker 8: implicated officially in any of this, and it doesn't even
Speaker 8: mean indicted by the Feds, but just somehow gets publicly
Speaker 8: linked to this, then you know he's going to have
Speaker 8: problems with his law license and business and whatnot. But
Speaker 8: I mean, there, it's up to any individual if they
Speaker 8: want to hire him. I assume if they google him
Speaker 8: they see all kinds of unpleasant things.
Speaker 4: This certainly doesn't help that for him. I imagine these
Speaker 4: kinds of forums. But you know, even a guy like that.
Speaker 8: Until he's formally accused or whatever, is going to earn
Speaker 8: his livelihood same way Farwell was. Until a week and
Speaker 8: a half ago or two weeks ago, was literally driving
Speaker 8: a truck until they told me he had been arrested
Speaker 8: in New Mexico apparently. But you know, whatever will happen.
Speaker 8: That was a joke, obviously, But whatever happened to Divine
Speaker 8: will happen or it won't. But if he gets publicly
Speaker 8: linked to this, there will be disciplinary proceedings. And of course,
Speaker 8: if you ultimately are convicted of a felony, that's automatic dispartment.
Speaker 8: I mean, there's a process for that. But you'll have
Speaker 8: disciplinary problems if you're mixed up in a child grooming
Speaker 8: investigation that ultimately results in your buddy, you know, being
Speaker 8: accused of murdering an innocent young woman.
Speaker 1: And as far as clients, Missy, I don't think my
Speaker 1: miniature pincher mix Athena. I don't think she would hire Divine,
Speaker 1: So I don't think he's in danger of getting any
Speaker 1: new clients.
Speaker 3: Peter does he does, He does have, He does have clients.
Speaker 3: What kind of the Yeah, he's representing a state law
Speaker 3: and wrongful termination and he specializes in tort law, which
Speaker 3: is ironically what he's Yeah, that's quite cute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, Well, Athena has already barked that she would
Speaker 1: not hire him. So I just want to say she
Speaker 1: wants to say that for the record, I want to
Speaker 1: record that. So anyway, Peter Peter and anything on Robert Divine.
Speaker 10: I would just, I guess, like to suggest to submit that.
Speaker 2: I got to believe and I do believe totally in
Speaker 2: effectiveness and the efficiency of the FED. I'd go out
Speaker 2: and a limit and speculate that they either came into
Speaker 2: town on a case that was prior to the Sandral
Speaker 2: Burchmore case, or that brought them to the Norfolk County.
Speaker 10: And I believe that you know, they've got whatever Lovey
Speaker 10: said the other day.
Speaker 2: He's got one hundred and twenty five or one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty agents working out of that office on various cases.
Speaker 2: And I think I think it would be very doubtful
Speaker 2: if they don't have one hundred percent of what they
Speaker 2: need on this case to bring pretty much everybody to justice.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure when they they made that grab the
Speaker 2: other day, not the one in New Mexico, the one
Speaker 2: in Revere, I'm sure that you know the wires and
Speaker 2: the chattel was just absolutely deafening, and that they gathered
Speaker 2: and garnished a bunch more of information and targets, and.
Speaker 10: Would I go out in a limit.
Speaker 2: And do the over under that there's gonna be your
Speaker 2: rest this week. I'd speculate there will be probably at
Speaker 2: least one more, maybe two more.
Speaker 10: And wow, I don't that's just I have no receipts
Speaker 10: for that, So please don't don't go to the bank
Speaker 10: with that. The check will bumps. But I really think
Speaker 10: that that there's a lot more coming out of this
Speaker 10: very soon.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're gonna as you know, we've all indicated,
Speaker 2: this is a horrific, horrific case. And if you read
Speaker 2: those forty five pages, you just you're looking for help,
Speaker 2: you're looking for medication.
Speaker 10: They're so bad. And I don't think the FID they're
Speaker 10: gonna let this go away anytime soon. As a matter
Speaker 10: of fact, I think they're going to put an end
Speaker 10: to it mighty fast.
Speaker 1: Oh God Lord here prayer. I say that every time
Speaker 1: we talk about these these cases where we're in need
Speaker 1: of justice, Mark, do you have something that we can
Speaker 1: chew on on the topic.
Speaker 4: Well, how long?
Speaker 8: And this is not meant that's not a joke, not hostilee.
Speaker 8: I'm not even telling how long before they clean house,
Speaker 8: Whether it's in the DA's office out there, the state
Speaker 8: Police unit which lives in the DA's office and works
Speaker 8: hand in hand with the DA's office, whether it even
Speaker 8: extends to the Canton police. How much more are the
Speaker 8: people who live out there supposed to take and have
Speaker 8: such little confidence in what the local cops are doing,
Speaker 8: what the state police are doing, what the district attorney
Speaker 8: is doing in case after case that they just seem
Speaker 8: completely incapable of investigating with any serious interest in the
Speaker 8: truth for one reason or another. And you know, I
Speaker 8: know they have a you know, new kernel coming in.
Speaker 8: Whatever that really means or doesn't mean, I don't know,
Speaker 8: but I mean, you have this arrangement where the state
Speaker 8: police guys are living in the DA's office. For all
Speaker 8: intents and purposes. They're all buddy buddy, they're eating lunch together,
Speaker 8: they're hanging out with the das. It's just one big
Speaker 8: incestuous law enforcement situation out there. And you can't have
Speaker 8: that because that leads to corruption in many different forms.
Speaker 8: It doesn't have to be the kind of corruption that
Speaker 8: may lead to somebody shuffling and sprinkling tailite pieces all
Speaker 8: over the lawn, which is an extreme form of corruption.
Speaker 8: If you believe that, but little things, letting things slide,
Speaker 8: like you see perhaps in this case, not being careful,
Speaker 8: not looking under every rock because you don't want to
Speaker 8: upset your buddies or you don't want to do this.
Speaker 8: You dig deeper, and you see a lot of these
Speaker 8: people in the state police they donate to the DA,
Speaker 8: people in the das off financially donate. They're beholden to
Speaker 8: each other that there's an unhealthy relationship there. It breeds corruption,
Speaker 8: and corruption can be in the littlest forms. Okay, it
Speaker 8: can be another example from the other case. It can
Speaker 8: be not saying we can't use a video that's clearly
Speaker 8: been flipped around and not proper because I don't want
Speaker 8: to get this guy in trouble because he's my friend.
Speaker 8: Those kinds of things, and it's just it goes on
Speaker 8: in all these big cases. Nobody out there seems to
Speaker 8: do anything about it. And are there going to be
Speaker 8: lessons learned and something that I wasn't aware of today
Speaker 8: And listening to some of the things, Missy, that you
Speaker 8: were talking about about your conversations with Fanning or whatever.
Speaker 8: The other problem in this culture, if you will, it
Speaker 8: is the misogyny the I mean, I mean, you look
Speaker 8: what's going on here, and you have Fanning, who is
Speaker 8: you know, victim blaming and victim shame shaming a probably
Speaker 8: murdered young woman. Okay, either way, even if you believe
Speaker 8: she took her own life, how are you just not
Speaker 8: more sympathetic to the horror show that she went through
Speaker 8: that would have led her to do that. I mean,
Speaker 8: she's a victim in every sense of the word, and
Speaker 8: anyone with a police officer above and beyond anyone else,
Speaker 8: should have some degree of respect for her and her family.
Speaker 8: And so you say, but you know, they're calling her promiscuous,
Speaker 8: they're telling you these things. And then you sit there
Speaker 8: and you say, oh yeah, let me go back to
Speaker 8: that other you know, other big case and say go
Speaker 8: back to the text messages about these are the kind
Speaker 8: of guys who would talk like that, right who send
Speaker 8: their you know, their their their bros. These messages about
Speaker 8: saying terrible things about women. Nobody's getting upset, nobody's telling
Speaker 8: them to stop. And this is the culture of the
Speaker 8: Folk State police people. And at what point is enough
Speaker 8: enough and you fumigate it, you just you blow it
Speaker 8: up enough, get them out of there because they're either
Speaker 8: incompetent on these cases or worse, and neither one of
Speaker 8: those is acceptable, right, I mean, this is this is
Speaker 8: a shit show either way, and people deserve better, and
Speaker 8: it just keeps happening, and how can anyone have any
Speaker 8: confidence in what they're doing? And to go back to
Speaker 8: something Suzanne was then saying, which is and then the
Speaker 8: people who lose in this are the good cops, and
Speaker 8: they're the ones who get demoralized because they take the
Speaker 8: heat for the crappy cops. And then you get people
Speaker 8: who say, I hate the cops, they all suck, they're
Speaker 8: all bad. That's totally untrue, but you see it again
Speaker 8: and again. What's going on there? You can understand why
Speaker 8: people feel like that. And then it demoralizes the cops.
Speaker 8: Then people good cops don't want to stay. They go
Speaker 8: New ones who you know you'd want to become don't
Speaker 8: come in, so the competence gets even worse, and it
Speaker 8: just gets It's awful, and just how much more of this?
Speaker 8: I don't you know, I don't know what else can
Speaker 8: be done.
Speaker 4: I don't know if this.
Speaker 8: Colonel has any real power. But you need a new
Speaker 8: district attorney. You need new troopers, you need new police
Speaker 8: officers at these towns, and ultimately, nothing's ever going to
Speaker 8: change with the people who live there don't vote and
Speaker 8: make it happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Apparently one of my awesome teammates from Dean was
Speaker 1: Colonel Mand's roommate when they were young cops. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we spoke a little bit about him. Nurse Kim, when's
Speaker 1: the other shoe going to drop? Do you think that
Speaker 1: there's going to be some sort of accountability? How do
Speaker 1: you see that framing up? Man?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I hope that there is accountability. I do still
Speaker 11: have faith in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that we need
Speaker 11: to make this right. Okay, And I am not a
Speaker 11: constituent of Norfolk County, but I would just like to
Speaker 11: kind of say that I've heard a narrative, and we've
Speaker 11: seen this narrative with an old school way of thinking,
Speaker 11: and this is very I know that it does not
Speaker 11: only happen in Massachusetts. I get that, guys, but remember
Speaker 11: we're the first, right, We're the Pilgrims bits so like
Speaker 11: the we are the head of this and we were
Speaker 11: the first of the fifty states and of the thirteen colonies.
Speaker 7: I mean, let's go all the way back.
Speaker 11: But it has been troublesome. This is decades in the making.
Speaker 11: This is not something that happened overnight. This was insidious,
Speaker 11: This was pervasive, and it goes through many levels. The
Speaker 11: most concerning for me, though, is this narrative that Sandra is,
Speaker 11: you know, damaged by I.
Speaker 7: She was a damaged person. This is why this happened
Speaker 7: to her.
Speaker 11: And I'm gonna say this loud, and I've said it
Speaker 11: on every one of my shows, but I'm not gonna
Speaker 11: stop saying it. It is that damage was done to
Speaker 11: Sandra Birchmore. Sandra Birchmore was not damaged, Okay, do you do?
Speaker 11: You are you picking up what I'm putting down.
Speaker 10: Everyone, because she was not born damaged.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 11: And this is something that kind of gets lost in
Speaker 11: the sauce somehow. And I don't know if it's like
Speaker 11: a male versus female situation. But of course, Attorney Bettero
Speaker 11: is incredible and he is just saying all of that.
Speaker 11: But I just wanted to say that when predators sink
Speaker 11: their teeth into our vulnerable children, and that's what it is, guys, okay,
Speaker 11: is that predators grooming and predatory behavior happened, and petit. Well,
Speaker 11: let's just say perpetrators are going to look for a
Speaker 11: specific demographic. They are going to smell the weakness of
Speaker 11: whatever it is, a self esteem maybe not a two
Speaker 11: home household. And it doesn't mean that you as a
Speaker 11: child or as a family and a functioning unit. If
Speaker 11: you're a single parent, you're fine, you know, of course,
Speaker 11: there's nothing wrong with that. We just want to let
Speaker 11: you know that, you know, there are people that are
Speaker 11: sick and twisted in this world. Just watch out for
Speaker 11: our children, watch out for each other. And I pray
Speaker 11: that the I pray that the end is near, and
Speaker 11: the Norfolk DA's office is you know, burn it all
Speaker 11: down in my not not the actual place, but you know,
Speaker 11: just burn it all down and start from the beginning again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well can we can we just evacuate the building first, Kim?
Speaker 14: Yeah, no no burning, no burning, no metaphory metaphorical metaphorical burning, Okay,
Speaker 14: perhaps an axe handle and I don't know anyway, And
Speaker 14: to what Mark said.
Speaker 1: I just want to say, I just took the DD
Speaker 1: ethics course and you absolutely cannot give gifts to your
Speaker 1: supervisor or donations. You cannot do that that is a
Speaker 1: huge no no. In fact, at Christmas time they're limited
Speaker 1: to like a ten dollars a gift among like colleagues,
Speaker 1: and then there's a limit like if you have three
Speaker 1: or four people get a gift. But that's that is it. Man.
Speaker 1: You cannot be making donations to your supervisor like these
Speaker 1: idiots are to Morrissey. Sorry anyway, I digress.
Speaker 7: Won't do anything for Christmas. Mark, Now.
Speaker 8: We're not a public servant, So well right, anything you
Speaker 8: want for Christmas, see bring.
Speaker 1: It, yeah and call a name. You can't get anything
Speaker 1: for minihand for Christmas, just so you know, all right,
Speaker 1: So David has a questionnaire. David, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for the donation. If you have a question and you
Speaker 1: also have a blessing for us, that's awesome. And if
Speaker 1: you don't, we're still going to try to get to it. Mark.
Speaker 1: If the Feds take over per Se, can't police department
Speaker 1: can or will the use of polygraphs be used basically
Speaker 1: to help eliminate corruption? I can answer that one, but
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 4: Feds do polygraphs.
Speaker 8: I mean they're not admissible in court, as everyone knows,
Speaker 8: but the FBI absolutely uses polygraphs both internally if there
Speaker 8: are issues or in sometimes trying to determine whether someone's
Speaker 8: being credible. A polygraph, as many people know, it's not
Speaker 8: a lie detector. I know that's the colloquial. They detect
Speaker 8: deception or a lack thereof. But they're all dependent upon
Speaker 8: the critical questions being asked, you know, and whether they're clear.
Speaker 8: And they only ask about three pertinent questions. Some people
Speaker 8: rely on them, some don't. But if the Feds were
Speaker 8: coming in to try and figure out who's who's good,
Speaker 8: who's bad, yeah, they could definitely do that for sure.
Speaker 1: Every single FBI agent goes through a federal polygraph, Every
Speaker 1: single Customs and Border Protection Customs and Border Control agent
Speaker 1: gets a polygraph, and of course in the Department of
Speaker 1: Defense it's a TSSCI And if you go to there's
Speaker 1: one step above that. It's a polygraph level for certain
Speaker 1: positions that go even beyond sensitive compartment and information. For Mark.
Speaker 1: Thank you romy again, my homie, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for mister Mark betro Can you talk about the filing
Speaker 1: regarding Proctor's electronic data. I don't understand the Norfolk DA's
Speaker 1: office gets to decide what's turned over.
Speaker 8: Well, people need to understand how Brady works. And it's
Speaker 8: offensive because you know, there appears to be a track
Speaker 8: record in this particular county of maybe not being diligent
Speaker 8: in turning over discoverable or sculpatory evidence. But this is
Speaker 8: the way the system works. There is not a working
Speaker 8: presumption that prosecutors are unethical or engage in malpractice. And
Speaker 8: the way the system survives is that the presumption is
Speaker 8: the exact opposite, that they are going to do what
Speaker 8: they're supposed to do. And whether you want to believe
Speaker 8: that or not, given these people, that's how Brady works.
Speaker 8: You are relying upon them in the first instance, to
Speaker 8: disclose what they are supposed to turn over, and of
Speaker 8: course the risk if they don't and you later determined
Speaker 8: that they withheld or suppressed what the word lawyers would
Speaker 8: use rbal evidence that was in their possession. Custodier control
Speaker 8: evidence gets suppressed, convictions get reversed, prosecutors get brought up on,
Speaker 8: you know, in front of disciplinary proceedings or worse, depending.
Speaker 4: On you know how bad it is.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 8: The extreme example is Wendy Murphy's friend Mike Knifong, the
Speaker 8: former DA of the Durham Durham, North Carolina, who actually
Speaker 8: went to jail because he suppressed, you know, biological evidence
Speaker 8: which would have helped clear those the Duke lacrosse players.
Speaker 8: But as far as Procter, so, they already have his
Speaker 8: private phone text messages and they're going to have to,
Speaker 8: most likely any of the bad ones turn those over.
Speaker 8: They certainly adversely impact his credibility, which also is considered exculpatory.
Speaker 8: So the trick now becomes what about the work phone
Speaker 8: and the disclosure they made yesterday? So the first thing
Speaker 8: that's going to trigger everyone is the extraction reports that
Speaker 8: they got were done by the state police. So before
Speaker 8: you even get to how wonderful the DA's office is here,
Speaker 8: you are again, do you trust you know, Guarino and
Speaker 8: these other guys who screwed up the extractions and Karen
Speaker 8: Reid who probably screwed up the extractions in this case
Speaker 8: that we're talking about tonight and you know other cases
Speaker 8: down the line which I'm sure will be discussed.
Speaker 4: Did they do that right?
Speaker 8: And then do you trust the Norfolk DA to turn
Speaker 8: over what they're supposed to When most people will say no,
Speaker 8: but no judge is going to literally say I want
Speaker 8: to inspect these in camera, and I'll determine what's going
Speaker 8: to be turned over without more, They're just not going
Speaker 8: to do it, so you're going to be stuck with
Speaker 8: them trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 8: One of the things they kind of snuck in their
Speaker 8: letter was this idea, we're considering hiring and outside company
Speaker 8: to help us do that. You know, at first blush,
Speaker 8: that sounds like a good thing, But I look at
Speaker 8: it in a different way and say, are you people
Speaker 8: really morons to this level where you need help from
Speaker 8: an outside agency to look at this data and tell
Speaker 8: you what your ethical responsibilities are in disclosing favorable evidence.
Speaker 8: It's not that complicated because what you can always do
Speaker 8: is air on the side of disclosure, which is what
Speaker 8: you're supposed to do.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 8: Last point on this, you don't just get his whole phone.
Speaker 8: It doesn't work that way. They have a fair point
Speaker 8: about confidential investigative stuff that you don't get to see.
Speaker 8: If there are, you know, horrible autopsy photos of a
Speaker 8: murder victim that has nothing to do, you know, that
Speaker 8: shouldn't be disclosed. If there are names and stuff about
Speaker 8: confidential informants in cases who've done nothing wrong, know that
Speaker 8: that stuff shouldn't be disclosed, But in terms of having
Speaker 8: any confidence that they're going to turn over what they're
Speaker 8: supposed to, it's hard to do that. When they're saying,
Speaker 8: we may actually seek out help to help us do that.
Speaker 8: I mean that that's just yeah, remarkable to me.
Speaker 1: They're really good at bsing people who are super naive. Hey, Chavon,
Speaker 1: I saw your question for Peter. We are going to
Speaker 1: get to that question. We want to get through the roundtable.
Speaker 1: So let the roundtable portion of this, So let's sort
Speaker 1: of pick up the pace. We have twenty five minutes
Speaker 1: till Turtle Boy takes over the airways and we'll all
Speaker 1: be tuned into the Turtle Boy. So I think, Kim,
Speaker 1: did you get to let me see? The last person
Speaker 1: went it was Mark's topic? Right, yep, So it goes
Speaker 1: to Missy right, I was the first one. So, oh
Speaker 1: you were I thought it was Mark's topic.
Speaker 4: Oh, that was Mark's topic.
Speaker 1: But did you get to comment on Kim? She didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know. Yeah, okay, Nurse Kim.
Speaker 7: Oh wait, so I'm gonna go or is is he
Speaker 7: going to comment?
Speaker 1: No? I believe I didn't know if you got to
Speaker 1: comment on Mark's topic. It turned into more of a
Speaker 1: statement than a than a topic. But if you want
Speaker 1: to extract something from that, like practice cell phone, go ahead. Nope,
Speaker 1: all right, go, Well, mine's.
Speaker 9: To kind of go along with what Kim said. You know,
Speaker 9: people got to understand that at twelve into thirteen, Sander
Speaker 9: was groomed, defiled, disrespected, disregarded, coerced by these disgusting men,
Speaker 9: and ultimately murdered by one of them. But she was
Speaker 9: also discarded disrespected by the investigators who should have looked
Speaker 9: out for her and taking care of her, and they
Speaker 9: all end up being police officers. So on both ends
Speaker 9: of it, you know, the police didn't take care of
Speaker 9: Sandra when they should have been the ones who took
Speaker 9: care of her the most.
Speaker 1: So I'll just say that, yeah, yeah, the mindset we
Speaker 1: kind of tried to get into the mindset the Hubris
Speaker 1: where what is the genesis of where people go, I
Speaker 1: can do this and I can get away with it
Speaker 1: and nobody's going to hold me to account for it.
Speaker 1: That I think literally, we could probably do a good
Speaker 1: thirty minutes on that topic. But did you have any
Speaker 1: commentary on on what Mark brought out?
Speaker 10: Peter on what the phone disclosure was the other day.
Speaker 4: Now I'm fumigating them from top to bottom, all of
Speaker 4: the cast of characters.
Speaker 8: You just do this apparently again and again, and it's
Speaker 8: like groundhog Day on these investigations.
Speaker 1: It's just awful.
Speaker 10: Just I concur with that, and I've been advocating that.
Speaker 2: I've been I've been talking to a lot of people,
Speaker 2: including on many of the Canton media sites, Mark.
Speaker 10: Receivership.
Speaker 2: I mean, at some point, you know, I know for
Speaker 2: a fact that the town of Canton residents, many of
Speaker 2: them are talking about moving.
Speaker 1: Out of town.
Speaker 10: They said, this is just horrible. We don't trust our
Speaker 10: police department. We're almost afraid to down line one to one.
Speaker 10: It's a culture that, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm not, I believe, I'm not painting the Department
Speaker 2: of Canton Police Department with a bright white brush. But
Speaker 2: there's an inherent problem there and with some people apparently
Speaker 2: and obviously with the DA's office and the state Police.
Speaker 10: And I mean one.
Speaker 2: Example would be, look at man has been in office
Speaker 2: as the acting colonel for what eighteen months? Now, suddenly
Speaker 2: they're going to bring in this gentleman from New Jersey.
Speaker 2: I have not vetted him yet I know I'll use
Speaker 2: his name. Howard Carr has looked at it and said
Speaker 2: he's got concerns. But I think again I mentioned it
Speaker 2: fish rots from the head down. You've got to start
Speaker 2: at the top. You've got to start with the select board.
Speaker 2: You've got to start with the governor. You've got to start.
Speaker 2: You've got to start somewhere. And you've got to work
Speaker 2: down and and.
Speaker 10: Vet these people.
Speaker 2: And you know, unfortunately the good cops can't say anything
Speaker 2: because they will be their career will be over for
Speaker 2: all intensive purpose, and they'll and they could be even hunted.
Speaker 2: And I mean I've been told just for my speaking
Speaker 2: out to stay out of Canton because it's a target
Speaker 2: on my back whatever that means.
Speaker 10: So it's it's tough.
Speaker 1: I'll leave it it down that that really makes me sad, Suzanne, Like,
Speaker 1: do you have for like in The Godfather One, I
Speaker 1: think it was the little thing of being sect aside
Speaker 1: that the Corleone child as Dodd Corleone had a heart attack.
Speaker 1: Do you have something like that you could use on
Speaker 1: on the Normoka District Attorney.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to err on the side of my
Speaker 3: optimism and naive tay as far as maybe getting some
Speaker 3: help and support for the officers that that are already
Speaker 3: in these systems, because you know, to Peter's point, and
Speaker 3: maybe I mentioned it earlier, if the good officers are
Speaker 3: tormented by the bad officers and they're in fear of retaliation,
Speaker 3: and they're looking over their shoulders for that danger instead
Speaker 3: of the danger in the community, then how can they
Speaker 3: how can they function? It's you know, it's not it's
Speaker 3: not the faults of the honorable protect and serve, but
Speaker 3: what systems are in place to help them? I mean,
Speaker 3: again my pie in the sky idea of you know,
Speaker 3: sort of intervention you know, within the departments and outside agencies,
Speaker 3: maybe some that are civilian instead of other cops helping
Speaker 3: cops already there. I mean, they're I don't, I don't
Speaker 3: want to use the word in incestuous about fixing a problem,
Speaker 3: but it's already a problem that the cops are investigating
Speaker 3: other cops. We already saw that that didn't work out
Speaker 3: very well. So maybe some civilian oversight, some therapy, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not a person to decide these things.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm baffled when I'm having these conversations with
Speaker 3: those who are expert allegedly in these things. What you know,
Speaker 3: isn't there a task force that may come in to
Speaker 3: assist in a crisis adult situations such as Stowton and
Speaker 3: Canton are in at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a that's a beautiful take on it, you know,
Speaker 1: and maybe it will take, you know, an outside agency,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what Peter's kind of aiming for
Speaker 1: with his initiatives. And relative to the New I believe
Speaker 1: it or not, the New York State Police New York
Speaker 1: State Trooper colonel is a classmate of mine from high school.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna see if he knows who this gentleman
Speaker 1: is from New Jersey. It's possible they've been at symposiums
Speaker 1: together or formal schools. Some of these guys even go
Speaker 1: to like some of the senior officer schools like in
Speaker 1: Annapolis and so forth. They are state police that get
Speaker 1: to go to those those leadership schools, and that the
Speaker 1: names of them are escaping me, but I know that
Speaker 1: some police get to go to those.
Speaker 3: Well, how about it. He's and in some some differently
Speaker 3: he's not biased by the same players in the same state.
Speaker 3: So there's already optimism in that that it's not his
Speaker 3: golf buddies that he's you know, coming into it. It's
Speaker 3: just it's overwhelming how much how much everybody is altogether,
Speaker 3: how much is the same people over and over and over. Yes,
Speaker 3: so change obvious needs to occur. And and I'm piggybacking
Speaker 3: off of a point Mark made that's not even relevant
Speaker 3: to what you asked me. But about the the the
Speaker 3: cell phone issue and all of that it with with Procter,
Speaker 3: it's going to be it's going to be eclipsed by
Speaker 3: what we're going to find in the case that we're
Speaker 3: talking about right now. It's it's another one of those
Speaker 3: sort of Okay, you were upset and disgusted and horrified
Speaker 3: about what was being said by Procter on the stand,
Speaker 3: You better be sitting down for what you're going to
Speaker 3: hear that that's coming out of Fannings his knowledge from
Speaker 3: this case, because it's going to be horrendous. I mean
Speaker 3: that the conversations leading up to Matthew Farwell's arrest, there
Speaker 3: were incidents where there were things being discussed about, joking
Speaker 3: about how Sander was found. There is there is no
Speaker 3: depth to describe exactly how terrible these communications are, and.
Speaker 1: Did they ever think about maybe choosing a couple of
Speaker 1: troopers to investigate the case that weren't former stotent cops.
Speaker 1: Did that ever occur to anybody from an ethical standpoint?
Speaker 1: Probably not.
Speaker 10: That's a really good question.
Speaker 3: For that issue. I mean, you don't. You don't even
Speaker 3: take pause if you hear your your buddy talking about
Speaker 3: this deceased girl in a joking manner. Unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh. But they don't, as Mar's pointed out
Speaker 1: on many occasions, they don't shame, they don't self reflect,
Speaker 1: and they don't Ethics is not a consideration, and and
Speaker 1: what's right and what's what's legal, ethical, moral are not
Speaker 1: considerations for these people. And that's where the hubrist comes in.
Speaker 1: We don't need to care about that. That's that's not
Speaker 1: something we worry about. That's something you worry about, you
Speaker 1: people out there. We don't worry about that because we
Speaker 1: got each other's back.
Speaker 8: Well, that's the laziness and arrogance, and that leads to
Speaker 8: corruption at I mean, that's it's it's not unique in
Speaker 8: any situation where you get the same people in power,
Speaker 8: they get lazy, they get comfortable and they just get
Speaker 8: arrogant and then things just slide. I mean, I say
Speaker 8: this all the time, but what you see in Norfolk
Speaker 8: County is exactly what happened in Brooklyn, New York when
Speaker 8: when Charles Hines was DA, and it ended with him
Speaker 8: being under federal investigation and finally getting tossed out and
Speaker 8: being the poster child of a wrongful conviction crisis related
Speaker 8: to their suppression of evidence and terrible work and that
Speaker 8: kind of thing. And the similarities with what you're seeing
Speaker 8: nor Folks not like as far along in that story,
Speaker 8: but it's just strikingly similar.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a great diet program for Morrissey if
Speaker 1: he ends up, if that happens to him. But we
Speaker 1: only have fourteen minutes left, so we need to blast
Speaker 1: through Nurse Kim's topic. And we have a question from Chevan.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Sean's from Ireland, but I love it.
Speaker 1: It's a completely Irish name, this one right here. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to get to where is chevn Oh, boy,
Speaker 1: there it is. We're going to get to this question
Speaker 1: for you, Peter. So but let's get through nerves. So
Speaker 1: let's keep this very succinct and brief in response to
Speaker 1: the brilliant, the one and Only Nurse Kim's topic. Amen.
Speaker 7: Okay, so I just wanted to say that.
Speaker 11: On February ninth, Matthew Farwell allowed his phone. He gave
Speaker 11: his consent for his cell phone, the iPhone eleven to
Speaker 11: troop a fanning.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 11: Also in the memo guys where he wrote, you know
Speaker 11: what this is pertaining to? He wrote in the death
Speaker 11: investigation of Sandra Burchmore, But at the bottom he wrote
Speaker 11: in the suicide it wrote suicide right underneath.
Speaker 7: On February ninth, Bibbs he why is Matthew.
Speaker 11: Fawell being a medical examiner or determining a cause of
Speaker 11: death in Sandra Birchmore where he is an alleged witness
Speaker 11: at this time? It just rubs me the wrong way.
Speaker 11: I don't like his I don't like his handwriting anything
Speaker 11: about it. And then this goes into the next Patrick
Speaker 11: Hanley was the attorney for Matthew Fowell. Initially he refused
Speaker 11: to He wrote this composed letter from their law firm,
Speaker 11: Butters and Brazilian, and they refuse to do a DNA test,
Speaker 11: refuse a polygraph.
Speaker 7: We know all of that. Now I have a question
Speaker 7: because Trooper Fannings said that.
Speaker 11: That Hanny Hanley was known to him, not like in
Speaker 11: his in his reports it says Hanley is known to
Speaker 11: me and the in the representation for Matthew Fowell. So
Speaker 11: Biggs I end up doing some research. We know that
Speaker 11: he's at Butters and Brazilian.
Speaker 7: But they are the.
Speaker 11: There is, they are the sponsors for Mass State Police,
Speaker 11: and I was wondering if there is any kind of,
Speaker 11: I don't know, appearance of impropriety, or is there something
Speaker 11: that perhaps if this is an agency that is representing
Speaker 11: the union of Mass State Police and they are involved
Speaker 11: in these galas every year, they've been representing them for
Speaker 11: years now, is this something that like maybe Hanley shouldn't
Speaker 11: be writing letters for a defendant in a criminal investigation
Speaker 11: that is being investigated by his own brothers if they're
Speaker 11: also the if they're the union's representative.
Speaker 7: Do you know what I'm saying? Just Okay, that was
Speaker 7: a lot, But I'm trying to go with, is there
Speaker 7: a conflict for.
Speaker 15: A union call a union attorney and union law firm
Speaker 15: to represent someone being prosecuted by said union for a crime.
Speaker 7: Peter Murray and mac bettero.
Speaker 9: Only before Mark answers that question, I want to add
Speaker 9: on to hers because it's very Williams lawyers are from
Speaker 9: more old firm, so that's conflict of interest, you know.
Speaker 9: And William's old lawyer who just quit showed up at Morrissey's.
Speaker 9: Uh what was it the party that he had a
Speaker 9: few week fundraiser party a few weeks ago. That's a
Speaker 9: conflict of interest. And in the memo they's one of
Speaker 9: the people who donates to Morrissey, said Boyle. Instead of
Speaker 9: saying Boil and Shaughnessy. They said Boyle and Morrissey. Take
Speaker 9: it away.
Speaker 4: Mark Betrow, Well, the obvious answer is, I mean, forget it, Jake.
Speaker 8: It's Chinatown. This is how we're doing it here. The
Speaker 8: current situation, if I understand it correctly, what Kim is
Speaker 8: talking about, this is troubling. So if that law firm
Speaker 8: which doesn't sound like a law firm name, it sounds
Speaker 8: like like a cafe name or something, but Butters and
Speaker 8: Brigi Rezillion right.
Speaker 7: In the back, bab babes, you know what I mean,
Speaker 7: Like we'll go to Buddies and Brazilian.
Speaker 8: Or or I don't know.
Speaker 4: It sounds like you know, a muffin and a wax.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Anyway, we're getting wild now, we're getting punchy.
Speaker 11: No.
Speaker 8: Look, if that law firm that represents the state police,
Speaker 8: that then that's their client, okay. And if they are
Speaker 8: now representing someone who is under investigation by their client,
Speaker 8: there is clearly a potential conflict here. Because you have
Speaker 8: duties of loyalty and confidentiality to all your clients, and
Speaker 8: when you run into situations where interests of different clients
Speaker 8: could conflict, like here, then the question becomes it is
Speaker 8: the conflict avoidable? Is it waivable in this situation? I'm
Speaker 8: not sure how you could do that. The idea that
Speaker 8: this law firm is representing and gets a lot of
Speaker 8: business from the state Police and then they're representing someone
Speaker 8: who's under investigation. On top of that conflict, the client
Speaker 8: that they're representing, the individual that you're talking about, he
Speaker 8: probably wants to waive the client because he thinks the
Speaker 8: police are gonna give me kid gloves. So beyond the
Speaker 8: legal mumbo jumbo amongst the possible conflict of the firm,
Speaker 8: we're right back to just the public perception of the
Speaker 8: cesspool that exists in Norfolk County Law Enforcement. I mean,
Speaker 8: it's just awful. It makes no sense. You know, when
Speaker 8: you start talking about, well we're going to hire and
Speaker 8: the other situation that Missy's talking about, let's hire you know,
Speaker 8: Marrissey's old firm. It looks terrible. It looks like something's
Speaker 8: going on. It's not necessarily literally a conflict, I mean,
Speaker 8: but it would appear to be no coincidence either. You know,
Speaker 8: you think you're going to get special treatment and you're
Speaker 8: going to get access. And the problem in this county
Speaker 8: is who's giving these people the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 8: I mean, look at what they do, look at how
Speaker 8: they conduct themselves, Look how they just don't appear to
Speaker 8: do the right thing for whatever reason. And it's just
Speaker 8: part of the whole incestuous relationships that exist out there.
Speaker 8: And it's awful, it's gross, and it goes back to
Speaker 8: the point earlier. You got to get new people, You've
Speaker 8: got to fumigate the whole place, and just it's awful.
Speaker 8: How does anyone have any confidence in what's happening here
Speaker 8: when they're all you know, glad handing and related in
Speaker 8: some capacity, whether it's by employment, friendship, partnership, in a
Speaker 8: law firm.
Speaker 4: It's just it's too incestuous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, isn't it like Judge Bev's dad or
Speaker 1: just Dje Bev's husband or something represented like Chris Albert
Speaker 1: in that vehicular homicide leaving the scene of an accident thing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just you'd say, oh, well, gee, I
Speaker 1: can't do this case then, because there's a connection to
Speaker 1: Chris Albert, who's a brother of one of the you know,
Speaker 1: the witnesses. But that was a little trickier.
Speaker 8: It looks bad, but that you know, that's a possible
Speaker 8: or maybe a parent or an appearance of a conflict.
Speaker 8: It certainly doesn't look good, no question, But it's getting
Speaker 8: a little far afield. But this thing about representing the
Speaker 8: state police and representing the guy that the state police
Speaker 8: are coming after is just you know, I mean, look,
Speaker 8: anytime you get hired by someone, you do, you know,
Speaker 8: a conflicts check. You have to always try to avoid
Speaker 8: getting stuck in multiple things. And any credible law firm
Speaker 8: that deals with things would say, when this guy wants
Speaker 8: to hire you, you'd say, look, we represent the state
Speaker 8: Police union. We can't go against that. And it also
Speaker 8: raises questions once again about the state Police. If you,
Speaker 8: I mean, why would you want if you're an existing
Speaker 8: client that someone mixed up in this horrible case that
Speaker 8: involves committing terrible crimes against an innocent child and eventually
Speaker 8: young woman, Why would the state police union be.
Speaker 4: Okay with that?
Speaker 8: You know, that's the kind of thing with the client
Speaker 8: would say, I'm not going to waive that conflict. We
Speaker 8: don't represent those kind of people.
Speaker 1: But forget I'm sorry, Mark, I don't mean.
Speaker 4: I said forget it, Jake, that's how to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say that. I heard FBI
Speaker 1: agents say the other day, if they're going to engage
Speaker 1: in the Financial Crimes Unit, if they have any stock
Speaker 1: in that company, any of their portfolios, if they even
Speaker 1: have a mutual fund, and that company that they're going
Speaker 1: to investigate, they immediately have to get rid of. They're
Speaker 1: going to make sure they've got to fill out forms
Speaker 1: before these investigations and make sure there's no conflict but
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. Peter, did you want to come in on that,
Speaker 1: because we've got about four minutes and we have a
Speaker 1: question for you. I want to get everybody out of
Speaker 1: here on the hour. What would you like to come
Speaker 1: in on that. What what Nurse Kim brilliantly investigated.
Speaker 2: There, I would agree brilliantly and I would think I
Speaker 2: would also submit that Attorney mock vetteral covered it eloquently
Speaker 2: from A to Z, So I'm gonna I'll yield to
Speaker 2: the next person with your shirt on time.
Speaker 10: There isn't much I could say that wasn't covered.
Speaker 1: Thank you. He's smart, same guy.
Speaker 4: Wicked smart.
Speaker 1: Well, you know they could be the Fredo Corleone there right,
Speaker 1: Remember Mark, I'm smart, I'm not dumb like everybody says.
Speaker 4: So anyway, god as to Godfathers in twenty minutes. That's impressive.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's because we boys man, all right. So anyway,
Speaker 1: we got to get to this question for Peter Murphy
Speaker 1: because Kim based pose that question to Attorney veter Roe
Speaker 1: and Peter and I want to get you guys out
Speaker 1: here because Turtle Boys coming up in three minutes. So
Speaker 1: this question is for you, mister Murphy. Maybe Nurse Kim
Speaker 1: can read it for us. We maybe sorry.
Speaker 7: Chavon Manion says for nine ninety nine, thank you, Shavon.
Speaker 11: I made a post today about Frank Cervicole just wondering
Speaker 11: from Peter if new young police officers get pressured or
Speaker 11: are encouraged to say quiet if they see things they
Speaker 11: don't agree with.
Speaker 7: What do you think, Peter Murphy? Oh on you bub
Speaker 7: arry Yep, there we go.
Speaker 10: I would say, yes, there is a culture.
Speaker 2: We've all addressed it in various forms and statements tonight
Speaker 2: and on other meetings round tables.
Speaker 10: There is a culture and it's got to be corrected
Speaker 10: at the top down.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's new trainees, new boots on the ground,
Speaker 2: they're brought in, They a field trained, they ride with
Speaker 2: different offices on different shifts, and it's ingrained.
Speaker 10: And uh, sometimes it's.
Speaker 2: Subliminal and you don't even know that you're in doctrinating
Speaker 2: somebody into a mindset, but it can be there. And uh,
Speaker 2: I think training, it is nothing that we've really brought up,
Speaker 2: but I think training is a huge concern in all
Speaker 2: these departments, and not just Massachusetts. They've got to do
Speaker 2: a better job at it, do a better job of
Speaker 2: vetting the people that are coming into the job why
Speaker 2: they're coming in. And you've got to get you know,
Speaker 2: you've just got to find out who you're giving a
Speaker 2: badge and a gun to.
Speaker 1: Peter. As a young officer, had you ever had a
Speaker 1: senior officer try to get you to do something that
Speaker 1: you were uncomfortable from a legal, moral, or ethical perspective?
Speaker 1: Had anyone ever tried to see if you were if
Speaker 1: you'd play?
Speaker 4: Nobody tried me. I don't.
Speaker 10: I think everybody knew my position, and I don't think
Speaker 10: they came to me with any of that bologna. I
Speaker 10: think they knew to stay away from me with that.
Speaker 10: I wouldn't doubt that they tried.
Speaker 4: Other new recruits.
Speaker 10: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I know.
Speaker 2: These guys are pretty you know some of these guys.
Speaker 2: And believe me, I'm not painting the brush on wide
Speaker 2: on any of these departments. But there are a few
Speaker 2: bad apples, and they are careful on how they present
Speaker 2: the concept that they're trying to deliver.
Speaker 4: To the new recruits or whatever.
Speaker 10: So it's it's just the way it is.
Speaker 2: And again, it's it's training, its accountability, it's top down discipline,
Speaker 2: and it's gonna work.
Speaker 10: It's paramilitary operation. You can't run it like a country club.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's a great way to put it. And
Speaker 1: so they didn't see fit to try Peter, because they
Speaker 1: probably knew they would be rebuffed. So, oh, Mavis, thank
Speaker 1: you so very much, thank you so much for the
Speaker 1: blessing and the donation. And I believe there's one more here.
Speaker 1: Oh so oh Schavan had one more thing. Say uh
Speaker 1: that is a female name, and she says, I, I
Speaker 1: am irish. I listened to a Cranberry song today and
Speaker 1: reminded me of Mark zombies. Yeah, Mark better and.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for ability and don't care. That's
Speaker 8: very dangerous for a prosecutor or police officer.
Speaker 4: That's a zombie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's working so well for them.
Speaker 11: They.
Speaker 1: I would love to say, Mike Morrison, could you please
Speaker 1: define the word just finish the sentence same is dot
Speaker 1: dot and see what his answer is. That'll be brilliant.
Speaker 1: Or Adam Lalley or any of those guys. All right,
Speaker 1: So I want to say goodbye. I want to start
Speaker 1: with miss Susanne. It's the first time I got to
Speaker 1: meet you. It was an honor to meet you and
Speaker 1: hear your analysis and how passionate you were. So I'm
Speaker 1: hoping you're gonna come on again. So thank you so
Speaker 1: much for such a pleasure having you, and I must
Speaker 1: stay thank.
Speaker 3: You so much. And you know what, I got a
Speaker 3: real quick shout out to the outstanding men on this panel.
Speaker 3: The topics that we're talking about right now just happened
Speaker 3: to largely affect women and the framing, blaming, shaming of women,
Speaker 3: And hats off to all three of you, gentlemen, just
Speaker 3: for being gentlemen, for being being there for us and
Speaker 3: providing a protective role like for real, for real, love
Speaker 3: that about you. Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 1: I don't want to put myself in the category of
Speaker 1: Peter Murphy, Mark Better, but thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Thanks for that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely can't wait. We're We're definitely gonna have you on again, Soul.
Speaker 1: I'll definitely message you to try to schedule you on here.
Speaker 1: But before that NBA Premiere, Celtics Fan, we got to
Speaker 1: have a little NBA dialogue, So thanks for doing this, Mark,
Speaker 1: Thank you glad to help appreciate it. Brother Nurse Kim.
Speaker 1: What can we say about you that hasn't already been
Speaker 1: said my Dia not a thing.
Speaker 11: I just wanted to say before I leave that I
Speaker 11: always appreciate you having me on DJ. It's a wonderful space.
Speaker 11: Peter Murphy, your everything. Mark Betterow, You're my best friend
Speaker 11: from out of town.
Speaker 7: And Suzanne and Mizzie you are the stars.
Speaker 11: I'm so sorry I talked too much because we should
Speaker 11: have heard more I think from you guys, but we
Speaker 11: I we appreciate you, and we love you for your back,
Speaker 11: your fighting for Sandra and for justice.
Speaker 1: It's the last time you're going to see these ladies.
Speaker 1: Is gonna be a lot of mote. But Nurse Kim,
Speaker 1: I just want to say so that episode I want
Speaker 1: people to check out is a solo episode that Nurse
Speaker 1: Kim did a few days ago and then I put
Speaker 1: out on Twitter. I may have put it out on Monday.
Speaker 1: I can't remember, as I've been so busy. But to
Speaker 1: do an hour or two hour episode solo and be
Speaker 1: that succinct and that well researched, and then she wonders
Speaker 1: why I praise her on DM Why I do that?
Speaker 1: That's the reason why. So check out that solo Nurse
Speaker 1: Kim episode. Peter, Yes, ma'am Peter Murphy, Thank you, brother.
Speaker 1: It was great to get to speak with you this
Speaker 1: week and kick things around, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being my friend and donating your time to the show.
Speaker 1: I appreciate being here.
Speaker 10: I try to share as much as I can, and
Speaker 10: I can thank you sincerely. I think you do a
Speaker 10: great job. You look at the roundtable of people and.
Speaker 2: Personnel that you brought on several times in the recent weeks.
Speaker 2: You know, Mark, Nurse, Kim, Suzanne, now Missy, it's just
Speaker 2: you do a great job. You bring a full spectrum
Speaker 2: of talent, and you to be commended. And everybody on
Speaker 2: this roundtable tonight did an awesome job except maybe me,
Speaker 2: but you guys did no.
Speaker 1: You always do an awesome job. And if you think
Speaker 1: it's cool like seeing Peter on here, it's even more
Speaker 1: cool talking to him on the fold. He's just such
Speaker 1: a positive person. I would have loved to have been
Speaker 1: a junior officer training under Peter. That would have been awesome.
Speaker 1: Missy and the Hissy, thank you, yes, sir, thank you
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on and bringing us Suzanne to
Speaker 1: us and being able to talk about Sandra and one down,
Speaker 1: more than two to go, but maybe three to go,
Speaker 1: you know with the animal control officer and you can
Speaker 1: drag his ass into this.
Speaker 9: Yeah, thank you for having all of us here to
Speaker 9: talk about Sandra's case, it's imperative that we keep talking
Speaker 9: about her, that we don't let it go back under
Speaker 9: you know, a rug where they tried to hide it.
Speaker 9: You brought a great panel together and I appreciate your
Speaker 9: us bringing us all here to talk about Sandra. And
Speaker 9: thank you everybody who watched us tonight, because we need
Speaker 9: you to spread the word and come join us on.
Speaker 9: You can go to Sanderbirchmore dot com and find everywhere
Speaker 9: to find us.
Speaker 1: It will be in the show notes to this episode.
Speaker 1: I will have the Facebook and anything that Mizzy gave
Speaker 1: me will be in the show notes that I will
Speaker 1: put out with the podcast which will come out tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So I will bid you guys farewell, and then I'll
Speaker 1: answer whatever is in the chat that anybody put But
Speaker 1: I want to cut you guys out here because we've
Speaker 1: got to go hang with my home e turtle Boy.
Speaker 1: And let me say this like I love all the
Speaker 1: content creators out there. The Glare Brian LTL. Mike is
Speaker 1: coming on next week. I'm going to get to talk
Speaker 1: to brother Mike Crawford masa uh. And I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of Kirk, who I just became aware of, and
Speaker 1: Dave those guys are brilliant. What a what a voice
Speaker 1: you know, Kirk has Wow, it was awesome to hear him.
Speaker 1: So thank you everybody, and I'll be seeing you guys soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. All right, love
Speaker 1: you guys. Just all right, everybody in Dutch chat if
Speaker 1: you what do you do? If we've got questions left
Speaker 1: over here?
Speaker 14: Uh?
Speaker 1: And let me see what we got here? Oh maybe
Speaker 1: this is just a donation, but let me let me
Speaker 1: just see if there's anything left that I missed. Okay,
Speaker 1: here we go. Yeah, justice for Sancho birchmore. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you so much, Babra. I'm gonna sound
Speaker 1: like Mike Myers from Let's See And here is a
Speaker 1: great panel. Thank you Caroline, miss ms turtle. I'll look
Speaker 1: at that. Who would ever called missy miss turtle? This
Speaker 1: is cool man Peter Murphy and and Susannah hanging out
Speaker 1: with us. That's pretty dope. Ruth, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: my dear. I appreciate you. Uh, and this is a
Speaker 1: thank you all you rock and I just love Do
Speaker 1: you know how many I love Peters? We've got tonight, Peter.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many people have said that we
Speaker 1: can't hear you got on mute.
Speaker 4: No, I do not know the answer to that.
Speaker 10: I hope you're got to say a few.
Speaker 1: I'd like if I say a dozen, I'll probably be sure.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of I love. I think the
Speaker 1: ladies love Peter. I think that, you know, not only
Speaker 1: just his just Peter himself as a guy, and then
Speaker 1: also what he's doing. Suzanne, what do you think.
Speaker 3: All the love, all the love for Peter. So those
Speaker 3: who don't know yet, they're gonna know. That's that's why
Speaker 3: we're here.
Speaker 1: If you don't know, you know, absolutely, Thank you. Don Yeah,
Speaker 1: Peter is definitely he's doing things that, like I said,
Speaker 1: that are behind the scenes that everybody doesn't see, to
Speaker 1: to bring this bring things forward. Uh and and we're
Speaker 1: really lucky that he's doing that. More. Nurse Kim love.
Speaker 1: I love when she said that she used Nurse Kim's thing,
Speaker 1: I love your face because that's one of her lives
Speaker 1: that I love. So all right, everybody's gonna go over
Speaker 1: and thank you so hey, David, Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: David Cornish. I appreciated brother. You guys rock. Here's another
Speaker 1: I think that we had to love you. Missy and
Speaker 1: I think that's it for tonight. Let's go watch Turtle Boy.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you so much, Love, it's a pleasure
Speaker 1: to meet you, Susanne. Thank to Peter. All Right, let's
Speaker 1: see if I can bring this out, the cab, my
Speaker 1: cab video. Let me see. Is this it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Oh, this is it? There goes. No, that's not it either.
Speaker 1: I can never find my videos when I need him. Oh,
Speaker 1: here it is Cab Outru.