1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:07,599 Speaker 1: Bus is Pet Life Radio, Let's talk pets. Welcome to 2 00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:10,960 the Human Animal Connection Show, where we believe we can 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,160 communicate with all animals. Join us as we explore the 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,160 thirty three principles and healing methods of the Human Animal Connection. 5 00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:22,719 As animal lovers, we know that you share our commitment 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,760 to making the world a kinder place for all creatures. Together, 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,039 let's embrace the transformative healing power of the Human Animal Connection. 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome to the Human Animal Connection Podcast. I 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,560 have a really good show for you today. It's kind 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,759 of a special topic, not the easiest topic, but sometimes 11 00:00:42,759 --> 00:00:45,719 we like to tackle subjects that aren't so easy on 12 00:00:45,759 --> 00:00:48,399 this show since we do so many warm and fuzzy shows. 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:55,240 And we're going to be talking about behavioral euthanasia, euthanizing 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,719 a dog because of behavioral issues. And my special guest 15 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:03,960 is Meredith tell Uson. She is an animal communicator and 16 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,359 also a behavioral trainer, so she has seen this issue 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,200 from many size and many angles and has felt it 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,120 deeply and personally in her life, and she's going to 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,079 kind of tell us her thoughts about this. So Meredith, 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:18,760 welcome to the show. Thank you. 21 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:21,079 Speaker 3: Janie. It's always a pleasure to be here with you. 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,239 Speaker 2: Yeah great, Well, all right, where should we start. Let's 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,879 give the h in case the audience isn't familiar. 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,159 Speaker 3: List. 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,879 Speaker 2: It explains some of the behaviors that might lead to 26 00:01:32,519 --> 00:01:36,760 a decision of euthanasia. Based upon behaviors. 27 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,719 Speaker 3: Well, there are there's a myriad of terrible situations that 28 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,319 could require someone to make the decision for behavioral euthanasia. 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,719 You know, it could be cases of aggression towards other animals, 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,519 towards people, towards children within the home. It could be that, 31 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:02,319 you know, there are animals who who truthfully are so 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:09,039 ill mentally that they just can't be They can't be 33 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:12,039 I don't want to say trusted, but it's dangerous to 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,159 have them in a home. You know, as animal professionals 35 00:02:16,319 --> 00:02:19,319 and as animal lovers, we all want to believe that 36 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:27,280 every single dog, hat, horse, lizard, whatever can fit happily 37 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:32,759 into a human world, and some of these beautiful creatures 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,479 are not able to do that. And it's such a 39 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:40,599 difficult topic because if you've got a physically perfectly physically 40 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,560 healthy animal, a lot of people can't accept the fact 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,039 that behavior of euthanasia is even an option, and it's 42 00:02:48,439 --> 00:02:53,360 anyone who's been through it knows. Anyone who has not 43 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:58,639 might not yet have the personal experience to understand that 44 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,919 sometimes this is absolutely necessary and actually more humane for 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:03,439 the animal. 46 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 4: Right. 47 00:03:04,719 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been on both sides of that equation, you know, 48 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:09,240 I've been on the not understanding it, and then I've 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,680 been in this situation with a foster animal from a 50 00:03:11,759 --> 00:03:15,520 shelter where that was what had to happen, and so 51 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,639 I've really seen it from all sides. Yeah. Yeah, So 52 00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:21,960 I think it's very challenging because some people are even 53 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,840 struggle with euthanasia period, even in cases where dogs are 54 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,159 physically ill or suffering or in pain. Just the notion 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,840 of do I have the right to make a choice, 56 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:36,560 you know, do I have the right to play god? 57 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,599 Of course, And as animal communicators, you and I both 58 00:03:40,599 --> 00:03:43,599 are animal communicators. We've talked with animals and they are 59 00:03:43,639 --> 00:03:46,159 not as attached to the bodies as we are, you know, 60 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,520 they I equate as like going through the doggy door, 61 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:52,639 you know, it's like from one world to another. So 62 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,520 it's for some people just euthanasia is challenging, But then 63 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,560 they could understand it if there's physical pain, physical illness, 64 00:03:59,639 --> 00:04:02,840 suffer not quality of life. But here we're talking about 65 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,840 dogs who are physically healthy but not mentally and emotionally healthy. Yeah, yeah, 66 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:11,960 so yeah, tell us a little bit about your experience 67 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,800 if you don't. I know, this is not an easy 68 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,439 subject to share. It takes a lot of guts to 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,680 talk about something like this because this is not pretty. 70 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,800 It's not pretty to be in those situation. But would 71 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,079 you like to share your story what happened? And while 72 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,439 you've made this decision. 73 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 3: I'll be happy to It is a difficult conversation. It 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,839 is a difficult topic. I'm almost three years into having 75 00:04:35,439 --> 00:04:38,720 unfortunately had the very personal experience of behavioral euthanasia in 76 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,199 my own home, and I've been through it with clients, 77 00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:49,120 and I think that I have a special particular way 78 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,120 to offer myself to clients who are going through such 79 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,000 a thing because of my personal experience. I wouldn't wish 80 00:04:55,079 --> 00:04:57,759 it on anyone, but having been through it, I've learned 81 00:04:57,759 --> 00:05:01,800 a whole whole lot, So I will. You know, I'm 82 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,680 kind of verbose, so I'll try and share a little 83 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,319 bit of my story. And I'm sharing this in the 84 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,160 hopes that I can be of some service and comfort 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,240 to other people. Who might find themselves unexpectedly in this 86 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:23,959 situation because it is always unexpected. Yeah, I hmm, okay, 87 00:05:24,759 --> 00:05:29,079 So almost eleven years ago I adopted two puppies. Their 88 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,199 names are Quenton and Barnabas. At the time, I had 89 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:36,839 two older dogs. These are all black lab mixes who 90 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:39,839 were strays who we took into our home. Vader and 91 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:42,720 Zod were my older dogs and they were definitely getting 92 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,920 up in years, and Vader started having seizures when he 93 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,240 was about thirteen. We were concerned. He and Zod had 94 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,759 never been apart, and we were concerned about how Zod 95 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,920 would respond after Vader's death. So we decided we should 96 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,519 get Zod a puppy, you know, as we often do, 97 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:03,759 but we weren't going to go look for one. We 98 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:05,439 were gonna wait for one to find us. 99 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: Well. 100 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:11,639 Speaker 3: Shortly thereafter, a dear friend had an unexpected litter of puppies. 101 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:15,879 Mom was a full blooded chocolate lab, relatively young, and 102 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,120 dad was I don't know, a traveling man. We're not 103 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:20,759 quite sure who dad was. But our neighbor called and said, 104 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:25,040 we've just had nine puppies, all of them one solid black, 105 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,680 one solid white, and the rest of them some version 106 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,399 of black and white. We know you love black animals, 107 00:06:29,439 --> 00:06:31,959 so would you like to come meet them? And we said, 108 00:06:32,079 --> 00:06:36,319 of course, we'll come meet them. And of the nine puppies, 109 00:06:36,639 --> 00:06:39,040 the first one that toddled out was Barnabas, the solid 110 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,680 black one with his big, fat, little puppy belly and 111 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,879 his little pink tongue. And we said, this is this 112 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:47,240 is him, this is the one. And then what do 113 00:06:47,319 --> 00:06:50,319 you know, out from under this ottoman crawls this tiny, 114 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:54,360 little shy puppy with this enormous white paw, and I 115 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:56,639 of course fell in love with him. So we accidentally 116 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,199 ended up with two. Okay, And then in Vader lived 117 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,319 another year and a half. I think he felt like 118 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,079 he needed to take it upon himself to try and 119 00:07:07,079 --> 00:07:10,639 help train these puppers, and he stuck around for a while. 120 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,879 Ultimately he did pass and then zod Not long there after, 121 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:18,920 at about six months old, Quentin and Barnabas got into 122 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:22,800 a terrible fight. We had been through training, and I'm 123 00:07:22,839 --> 00:07:27,680 in Mississippi. We have a lot of very old school trainers. 124 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:27,839 Speaker 2: You know. 125 00:07:27,879 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: There was a lot of four space training, etc. And 126 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:31,839 there was something in me that just said, this is 127 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,879 not going to suit these puppies, but I went through 128 00:07:35,879 --> 00:07:37,680 it anyway because I didn't know any better at the time. 129 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:43,800 They started fighting each other, and I mean terrible, horrible fights, 130 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:48,839 ditches and staples and tears and slover and everything else 131 00:07:48,959 --> 00:07:51,240 just awful. But then they would call up on the 132 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:54,120 sofa together and look each other's wounds. It's just like 133 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,560 they played off of each other very very strongly when 134 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,160 it was just the two of them. And after about 135 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,920 the third really good fight in the first year, I 136 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,600 contacted my trainer, who essentially told me it was all 137 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:11,360 my fault and that I had not trained them properly, 138 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,279 that I had not socialized them properly. And we socialized 139 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,800 this stew out of these dogs. I mean we really did. 140 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:19,759 We tried to take them everywhere and give them good 141 00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:23,639 experiences with lots and lots of different things. So I 142 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,879 broke up with my trainer she heard answering really really badly, 143 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:29,759 and that's when I went and started studying to become 144 00:08:29,839 --> 00:08:35,200 a certified dog trainer, which is another complicated aspect of 145 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,720 the story, because here I am a dog trainer many 146 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:42,159 years later an animal communicator, and I was at a 147 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,799 complete loss with these two, at a complete loss, but 148 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,759 we did it for nine years. Our role got smaller 149 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:53,320 and smaller. The pippers couldn't go anywhere, We couldn't travel 150 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,399 because they were not allowed to board. They weren't allowed 151 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,519 to play with any other animals. We stopped talking in 152 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,759 the neighborhood before they were a year old, so it 153 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,000 was basically just our home and our backyard. But even 154 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,960 what was going on that you had to do that narrowing. 155 00:09:10,039 --> 00:09:11,679 I know you they were fighting with each other about 156 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,879 what was happening out when you took him out. Wlenton 157 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,399 was so reactive that he would and he I truly 158 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,240 believe it was a lot of feury activity, but he 159 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,600 was so reactive. If we saw a cat, another dog, 160 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,519 a person, a car, a ups truck, anything, he would 161 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,200 just go nuts, and then the two of them would 162 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,080 redirect on each other. So it reached the point, even 163 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,879 with just their experience in our backyard, that everything was 164 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,159 an emergency. If a squirrel ran down the fence, if 165 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:41,440 a bird landed in the yard, god forbid, a neighbor's 166 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,360 cat had come over to visit. It even reached the 167 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,360 point we had a young couple that we shared a 168 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,840 fence with their backyard backed up to our backyard and 169 00:09:51,879 --> 00:09:54,840 they had dogs, and for over a year we texted 170 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,559 each other every time one of us needed to take 171 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,960 the dogs out because they couldn't be on opposite sides 172 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:01,559 of the fence. 173 00:10:01,879 --> 00:10:02,279 Speaker 2: Wow. 174 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not realize the level of personal anxiety 175 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,159 and fear that it was causing in me. We couldn't 176 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,480 have people over to the house, you know. We had 177 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,639 neighbors with small children that were afraid to come over. 178 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,879 Not that either of them ever went after a person 179 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,840 except me because I foolishly tried to get between them 180 00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:30,240 and many fights, but everything was a possible emergency. 181 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 182 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: And then they went after one of our cats. We 183 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,799 had five cats in the house at the time. Unfortunately, 184 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,600 over the course of a couple of years, they killed 185 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:45,360 two of our cats. 186 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:46,159 Speaker 2: Wow. 187 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: And one night they went after a third, and I said, 188 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:55,360 that's it, That's all I can do. I realized I 189 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:56,879 had reached the point where I would come home from 190 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:01,000 work just questioning whether everyone would'll be alive and okay 191 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:05,399 in the appse whether there would be blood or fur 192 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,279 or any of these things. So I have a lot 193 00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:15,480 of wonderful support in the animal world, and I contacted 194 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,720 an amazing behaviorist that I've trained with in the past, 195 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,159 Trish McMillan more on her later, but contacted her, did 196 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,759 several consultations, contacted every vet I know, every trainer that 197 00:11:28,759 --> 00:11:33,960 I had access to, and really really struggled with what 198 00:11:34,039 --> 00:11:38,559 I had to do at this point, and ultimately, after 199 00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:40,679 taking over a week off work just to stay home 200 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,960 and make sure everyone stayed alive, over the course of 201 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,480 the day, I realized that the more humane thing to 202 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:47,799 do would be to let Quentin go. 203 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: Was Quinton more of the instigator in these situations and Barnabas, 204 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,240 so that was clear that there was a difference. 205 00:11:57,159 --> 00:11:59,639 Speaker 3: It was clear, and it was clear that he was 206 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,080 he was the most reactive. Barnabas is not without blame 207 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,240 because he would he would redirect, he would get in 208 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:10,759 the middle of it. But they really played off of 209 00:12:10,799 --> 00:12:15,919 each other to a great extent. But it was obviously 210 00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:22,080 Quentin that was struggling the most. So I'm very fortunate 211 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,159 to have my oldest, dearest friend who is my veterinarian, 212 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,240 who also lives across the street, and he could come 213 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:33,159 to our home and make a euthanasia a good death, 214 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,399 as good as possible, and even in this situation, There 215 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:38,200 are a lot of veterinarians who are very opposed to 216 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,799 behavioral euthanasia and say you should try something else to 217 00:12:40,799 --> 00:12:43,279 if done at all, can you rehome him. We could 218 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:49,080 not responsibly rehome him because of his behaviors. So on 219 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,480 the day that my friend came over, we gave Quentin 220 00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:57,639 a big spoonful of peanut butter while he waited for 221 00:12:57,799 --> 00:13:02,039 the sedation, and I realized in that moment that that 222 00:13:02,159 --> 00:13:05,399 was the very first time in over nine years that 223 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,120 I had ever seen this dog truly relax. 224 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 5: Wow. 225 00:13:10,879 --> 00:13:13,159 Speaker 3: So I gave him the whole jar. I gave him 226 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,519 the whole jar of peanut butter, and there he was, 227 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,639 with his entire long snoop up in that jar of 228 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,840 peanut butter, and I wept. I wept for so many reasons, 229 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,919 and realized in that moment that yes, this was this 230 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:30,279 terrible thing. It was a horrible experience to have to 231 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,960 go through, but it was the most humane option for Quentin. 232 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,360 He had never been comfortable in his own skin, had 233 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:42,000 never been comfortable in his own body, and this moment, 234 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,159 only moments before his passing, was the first time that 235 00:13:45,159 --> 00:13:49,360 he ever truly relaxed. And that was with the first sedation, 236 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,759 the first shot. Yeah, yes, the space between the first 237 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:54,039 sedation and the second. 238 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: Yes, it's quite a powerful, beautiful time. 239 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It is. In the couple of years 240 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,200 since then, Barnabas is the only dog left in the house. 241 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,039 We've gone from four black dogs and five black cats 242 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,320 to one dog and two cats, which is a very 243 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,559 reasonable number for people's mouth. And Barnabas's life has gotten 244 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:19,159 much much bigger. 245 00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 5: Oh. 246 00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 3: He he did develop pretty severe separation anxiety because he'd 247 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:26,840 never lived alone, you know, he'd never not had another 248 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:29,200 dog in his life. But we've learned to manage that. 249 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,600 We go on walks in the neighborhood, we have play dates, 250 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:34,360 we have other dogs that come over to our house 251 00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:38,879 to play. He goes to Awfleish daycare and plays all 252 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,000 day long. He's he's almost twelve years old and he 253 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,080 runs and rots and plays all day every day. So 254 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:49,960 there's the flip side at the coin. Yeah, Arnabas's life 255 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:52,679 was very very small because of his brother, right, and 256 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,000 now his life is huge, and I'm committed to just 257 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,679 making his senior years as beautiful as possible. And the 258 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,600 really relationship that we have developed is incredible. 259 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: How long after Quintin passed, did Barnabas come around and 260 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,679 start becoming himself. 261 00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: And it was several months, but I will admit that 262 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,120 as much of that was me as it was him. 263 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:24,240 Because I was terrified. I was terrified. I scheduled him 264 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,320 for a private consultation with a dear friend here who's 265 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:33,679 a beautiful reinforced positive reinforcement trainer. I signed him up 266 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,720 for Peppy kindergarten, and he and I went to a 267 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,399 group class with puppies. And here he was nine years old, 268 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,000 this old man up there in kindergarten. But I did 269 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,000 that as a reinforcement for him and as a bonding 270 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:49,320 experience for us. And then we did some agility courses 271 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:55,480 for fun. And then I decided that I needed to 272 00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:57,720 find a way to make him as comfortable as possible 273 00:15:57,799 --> 00:15:59,200 during the day so that my husband and I could 274 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,480 actually leave and go to and so we tested out 275 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,039 this awfully staycare and the very first day that I 276 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,399 dropped him off, of course, I cried like someone mom 277 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,240 dropping kid off at kindergarten because I was so afraid. 278 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:15,320 And they assured me, we'll introduce into one bulletproof dog 279 00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:17,600 and then we'll introduce him to another and if the 280 00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:19,360 three of them do okay, we'll let them play a 281 00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:21,840 little bit. Now, got tied up at work and left 282 00:16:21,919 --> 00:16:23,639 him much much longer the first day than I had 283 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:26,720 intended to. And when I went to pick him up, 284 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:29,720 they have a big screen TV in the lobby and 285 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:31,919 they were like, look at this. He was in the 286 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,000 middle of the baby pool, surrounded by twenty thirty dogs, 287 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,399 holding court and having the time of his life. So 288 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,879 he came around pretty quickly as soon as I opened 289 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,480 up the opportunity for him to do so, because I 290 00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:45,679 was so afraid. 291 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:49,879 Speaker 2: Yes, I was so afraid. Yes, Okay, Well we're going 292 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,919 to take a short little break and would come back. 293 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,080 Maybe you could help other people who might be questioning 294 00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:58,720 if they are if they are in a situation where 295 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,120 they need to consider this, and what are the things 296 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:01,639 to look for. 297 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: So we'll be right back. 298 00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: In just a moment. 299 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 5: You know the expression cats have nine lives? Well, what 300 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:15,880 if you can give them one more? But give them ten? 301 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,200 Movement is on a mission to help give cats an 302 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,960 extra life. How with spae and neoter Spain or neotering 303 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,720 your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and 304 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,480 it helps control free roaming cat populations too. Learn more 305 00:17:32,559 --> 00:17:36,119 about the benefits of spee and neoter, and meet Scooter, 306 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,480 the newtered cat at give Them ten dot org. That's 307 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:43,480 give them ten dot org. 308 00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: Hey friends. If you like what you're hearing and want 309 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,039 to learn more, check out doctor Joseph's book The Human 310 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:56,440 Animal Connection, Deepening Relationships with Animals and Ourselves, or visit 311 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:02,279 the website The Humananimalconnection dot org to book an online consultation. 312 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:06,720 Thank you for loving animals. Now back to the show. 313 00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 4: Let's Talk pets on Petlife Radio dot com. 314 00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 2: Welcome back to The Human Animal Connection. My guest is 315 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,559 Meredith Tollison. She is an animal communicator and a behavioral trainer, 316 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,480 and we're talking about a difficult subject, the subject of 317 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,160 behavioral euthanasia. So, Meredith, I know that you and I 318 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,079 are not the only people to effaced this issue. So 319 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,519 what are the things that you could give people as 320 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:42,799 a kind of a reasonable way to evaluate this if 321 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:45,319 they're wondering, what do you think? What are some of 322 00:18:45,319 --> 00:18:49,480 the signs that behavioral euthanasia may be warranted and that 323 00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:53,000 it's time? And you know, how can people look at 324 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,039 this horrible decision, difficult decision? 325 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 3: A lot of the things that I said in my 326 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:04,839 own personal story, the level of reactivity, the level of 327 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:11,960 anxiety that I felt personally in dealing with trying to 328 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:15,039 manage my two dogs and make them as happy as possible. 329 00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:18,839 If someone's feeling that, I highly recommend that they consult 330 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:24,200 a professional. I have multiple, multiple dear friends here in 331 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,799 my area who are veterinarians, and I contacted every one 332 00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:30,240 of them, and sadly, every one of them said, you know, 333 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,160 they don't give us a lot of behavior training in 334 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,599 that school. So what we know is from our own 335 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:40,799 personal experience, there are some amazing veterinary behaviors out there. 336 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,200 As I mentioned, I worked with Trish McMillan. I did 337 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,960 some training with her working with aggressive dogs years ago, 338 00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:52,039 and so she's the primary behaviorist that I reached out 339 00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:54,000 to because I had a personal relationship with her at 340 00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:00,359 that time. She was incredible, incredibly supportive. She unfortunate had 341 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:07,079 been through this situation herself with a puppy that growled 342 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,319 at her when he was three weeks old. She knew 343 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,400 then that there was something wrong, and she worked with 344 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,920 him for eighteen months and then he had her and 345 00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:20,319 her boyfriend cornered in the house like ready to attack them. 346 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,440 That's a terrible experience and I'm glad that never happened 347 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:30,799 to me. But she created a remarkable community on Facebook 348 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:35,160 called Losing Lulu, and I highly suggest that anyone who 349 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,960 is facing this possibility or has been through this experience 350 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,680 find that Facebook group. It's a member's only group. You 351 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,440 have to request to join, and they're very, very strong 352 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,559 in their desire for it to be a safe and 353 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,880 supportive place to share your stories. There's so much grief 354 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,880 and there's so much shame in this experience. As an 355 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,440 animal professional, can you imagine myself? It's a failure. Yeah. 356 00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:05,839 And truth is I stopped taking training clients at that 357 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,640 time because I thought if I couldn't fix my own animal, 358 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,799 who am I to expect someone to pay me for 359 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,319 my professional services? 360 00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: You know. 361 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,519 Speaker 3: So if you believe that you were facing a situation 362 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,680 with a dog that could be dangerous or could be 363 00:21:24,519 --> 00:21:27,680 affecting your life in the way that this experience affected mind, 364 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,599 please please please reach out to a professional, reach out 365 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:35,799 to veterinary behaviors, reach out to a counselor for yourself. Yes, 366 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,200 because you know, as you know Genie, there are people 367 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,200 who are going to criticize you should have done, how 368 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,720 you should have tried more, how can you kill a 369 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,759 perfectly healthy animal? Well, we have to remember that this 370 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:59,759 type of mental illness illness, illness is an illness. And 371 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:02,079 I am of the belief. I work with a lot 372 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,039 of people who are in grief, who are making a 373 00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:10,519 decision about medical euthanasia, an end of life decision for 374 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:15,599 their animals, and I firmly believe that euthanasia is an 375 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,960 incredible gift, a humane euthanasia. While it's so so sad 376 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,799 for us to have our animals leave their bodies, it's 377 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,640 so much a gift that we can give them to 378 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,559 keep them from having to suffer while dying. And God, 379 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:30,680 I wish we could do it for our people. Yep, 380 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,200 I wish we could do it for people too. I 381 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,200 wish we really had that. 382 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: I know it's such a powerful experience, every phase of it. 383 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,640 And I know Lulu, of the dog that we fostered 384 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,400 from the shelter. We knew that the dog, you know, 385 00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:47,400 had twelve pages of rap sheet of difficulties, and fell 386 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,200 in love anyway, and thought I could handle it, thought 387 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,000 I had the skills, and she made tremendous progress. But 388 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,920 there was the day, the day when you know, she 389 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,160 got a thorn in her foot, my housemate try to 390 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,759 take it off and she almost lost her thumb, and 391 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:06,200 you know, ambulance and you know, uh we you know, 392 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,839 it's very severe. She's still to a year later, doesn't 393 00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:11,240 have full use of her hands. So you know, this 394 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,359 was and I had to walk Mulo out to the 395 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,359 truck for the sheriff and the animal control and you know, 396 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,599 unfortunately they let me come to the shelter for the euthanasia. 397 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,960 But I shelter. Euthanasia is not a never easy and 398 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,000 good It's nothing comfortable or sweet or tender about it. 399 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,799 It's it's so it's yeah. So to be able to 400 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:37,759 do it at home is such a such a tremendous blessing. 401 00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:39,400 So I'm glad you had that. But I was so 402 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,039 glad to be there with her and give her her 403 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,920 last whip prem and you know, spend a few moments 404 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,839 and and you know, I know I still work with 405 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,880 her now, I still communicate with her. And tell us 406 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,279 about communicating with Quentin since how how has your relationship 407 00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:55,880 been since? 408 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,039 Speaker 3: Well, I say it took me a while communicate with him. 409 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000 It took me a while to ask him to to 410 00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:08,440 come and work with me because I did feel so. 411 00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:12,440 I felt guilty. I felt like I had failed him. 412 00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:19,480 I felt even more guilty for feeling relieved on so 413 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,200 many occasions, so many aspects of life with Barnabas that 414 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,039 were easier, and I felt terrible going, Oh God, if 415 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,960 Quentin were here, this would be an emergency, right. You know, 416 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:33,599 Barnabas has decided which bank drive through is his favorite 417 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,680 because he gets treats at the bank drive through. I 418 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,400 could never have taken Quinton in the car like that, 419 00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:43,680 you know, So it took me a while to call 420 00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:45,599 him in. And I do say that Quinton is my muse, 421 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,440 that Quinton is my biggest teacher. I named my training 422 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,599 company Quintessential Dog Training because it was a little tribute 423 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:55,079 to him. It's not for Quentin I wouldn't have gone 424 00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:58,880 and studied behavior. As I said, I'm not necessarily taking 425 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,559 training clients anymore. But the knowledge that I gained in 426 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,119 doing all of that coursework really comes in handy with 427 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,920 my animal communication. So how do I communicate with Quentin? 428 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,119 I honestly, I call him in as a helper animal 429 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,640 when I'm dealing with clients who are making difficult decisions, 430 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:24,160 I call him into to remind me that I am strong, 431 00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:27,319 that I do have wisdom, that I can rely on 432 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:34,000 the wisdom of animals to help me, and to also 433 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,599 learn a lot about self forgiveness. Yeah, a lot about 434 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,119 We have a joke in my family, digness dog. You know, 435 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:43,720 who's working the hardest, who's doing the most, who's pushing 436 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,799 through a hard situation. And that's just part of my nature. 437 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,240 I call Quentin and when I'm having those dignest dog 438 00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:52,839 moments and feel like I need to step back and 439 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,680 let it go a little bit, you know. So he's 440 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,720 still very powerful. It's very powerful in my life. 441 00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:07,319 Speaker 2: And that's such a wonderful experience, the realization that not 442 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,839 all animals are destined to live in physical human homes, 443 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,519 in physical bodies, in human homes. You know, who knows 444 00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:16,599 how he would have been if he had been you know, 445 00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:19,119 a street dogs. Who knows? I mean, I don't know. 446 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,480 But the point being is that now he has a 447 00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:26,559 rich life and can be with you in a way 448 00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:29,519 that's very profound. That he couldn't be in normal life, 449 00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:32,319 Like you said, you couldn't take him to ordinary places 450 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:35,400 that you can now take Barnabas too, and there's a 451 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,480 lot of freedom in being out of the body, you know. 452 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,920 And as animal communicators, I think we're very lucky that 453 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,920 you can talk to Quentin and I can talk to 454 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,039 Lulu and we can still have a very full and 455 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,279 rich and ever developing relationship. But I know that not 456 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,119 everybody has that, and not everybody has that ability to 457 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,240 communicate with animals. And this is where you really want 458 00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:01,160 to get some help all upon a good communicator. And 459 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,519 the thing like you mentioned you had the first I 460 00:27:03,559 --> 00:27:06,920 think the trainer person that you went to was not helpful, 461 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:09,759 you know, just filled you full of guilt and crap. 462 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,279 And you know, so if anybody fills you with guilt 463 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:15,400 and crap, go to the next person. You know, absolutely 464 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,039 that's just got yeah that you're. 465 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 3: Going to connect with. Here's an interesting tid that I 466 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,359 love the way that you said, some animals are not 467 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,319 destined to live in this body in the human world 468 00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:29,839 in retrospect. As I mentioned, Quentin was one of Quentin 469 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,519 Barnabas were two of nine puppies. When they were about 470 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:37,640 two weeks old, Mom dropped Quentin in the swimming pool. 471 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,119 Oh the people saw it, and I'm obviously rushed to 472 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,000 rescue him. But isn't that an interesting thing? Yes, mom 473 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:51,200 had nine puppies and that was just one too many, 474 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:58,599 and this one, yes, maybe needed to be yo and yeah, yeah, 475 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,119 and pixel do that, you know, like I've seen, you know, 476 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,359 farm pigs, that there's one that's not quite right, the 477 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,279 mother will. 478 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 2: Do away with him. And it's it's scary and horrible 479 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,599 to think about things like that, but it's like there's 480 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,119 a wisdom there, you know. I think that in the 481 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,400 wild that's not uncommon if there's one that's not ready 482 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,119 for the world. And to us that seems perfectly awful. 483 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 3: It seems so so wild and so barbaric, and I 484 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:34,599 just wonder, I think, Yeah, if I had trusted her wisdom, 485 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,119 if they had trusted her wisdom right, had released Quentin 486 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,279 from his torment years earlier, not only would it have 487 00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:46,079 been more humane for him, but how much different would 488 00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:52,559 Barnabas's life had been. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's very 489 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,000 it's a very interesting view to think not only about 490 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,200 an individual life, but the pact life, you know, to 491 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,559 the wisdom of the pack. You know, sometimes the individual 492 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,319 gets sacrificed for the well being of the pack. It's uh. 493 00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: And as humans, where this is pretty rough stuff for us, 494 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,759 we don't we don't like to have that kind of responsibility. 495 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:18,000 But some in some if we take the responsibility of 496 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:20,319 bringing an animal into a human world, you know, into 497 00:29:20,359 --> 00:29:23,359 our home, having them domesticated, then we also have to 498 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,279 be equally prepared for the exit strategy. I think is 499 00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:30,000 in the wild, a sick or injured animal would go 500 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,160 off to the mountaintop or the coyote would have them 501 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,640 as lunch. That's what they would do. But because they're 502 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,640 living in our houses, they can't go off to the 503 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,279 mountaintop or the tree. And and yeah, yeah, so it's 504 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:48,240 it's it's the wildness of life, you know. And also 505 00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:51,640 just the recognition that being in a physical form isn't 506 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,119 the only possibility of consciousness. That as animal communicators, we 507 00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:02,920 we have the belief that consciousness extends beyond past physical form. 508 00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:05,759 So it's a little bit easier for us. But even 509 00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:07,880 you and I, even with all of our knowledge, we 510 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,960 still went through the grief. We still went for the guilt, 511 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,039 we still stopped training other people, we had to take 512 00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:17,359 a real time out. But our lives were torture. I 513 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,400 mean Lulu when she was here, she was here in 514 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,559 our house for ninety one days. She destroyed all the 515 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,720 Venetian blinds. You know, she scratches on all the table, 516 00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:27,359 she got on top of the dining room table. We'd 517 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,759 come home and see, you know, it just it was 518 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,039 it couldn't leave the house. You know, she had terrible 519 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:35,119 separation anxiety. And I remember just like the first few 520 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,240 days of leaving after she was gone, It's like, Wow, 521 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:39,960 I can close the door. I don't have to worry 522 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,319 about what's going to be destroyed or what's going to 523 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:45,920 happen when I leave. And it's it's pretty tough to 524 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,079 have a dog where you're basically a prisoner of their 525 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:52,839 emotional states. And like you said, not every issue can 526 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,559 be trained out or fixed out or healed out or 527 00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,039 talked out. I mean, sometimes we're dealing with dogs who's 528 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:02,920 wiring came street brain chemistry or whatever is just not 529 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,680 suitable for this world. 530 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,559 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And well, it was such a horrible experience, 531 00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:14,400 a horrible decision to have to make, and some of 532 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,599 the experiences along the way were horrible. Friendships were suffering, 533 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:24,599 my marriage was suffering, everything was suffering, not the least 534 00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:29,640 of which Quintin was suffering. And I miss him every day. 535 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,319 I miss his sweet moments. When he was good, he 536 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,400 was very, very good, and when he was bad, he 537 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:41,039 was horrid. I'm lucky in a way that there was 538 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:44,000 no physical damage to me or anyone else other than 539 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,759 the other animals, no damage to humans, physical damage. There 540 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,640 was a lot of emotional damage, yes, but we're all healing, 541 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160 We're all healing in a different way. And I know 542 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,039 that there are so many people out there who were 543 00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:04,079 questioning such a thing, and I encourage everyone to find 544 00:32:04,079 --> 00:32:07,960 the support that you need, because it can happen, and 545 00:32:08,039 --> 00:32:12,920 sometimes it needs to happen. And I feel for anyone 546 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,440 who's actually had a personal experience in this way, because 547 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:17,880 it's awful. Yeah. 548 00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, that resource that you offered people up 549 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:30,559 is called Lulu's Love, losing losing on Facebook, Losing Lulu. Yeah, 550 00:32:30,599 --> 00:32:33,839 and yeah, I have a video called Lulu's Love, which 551 00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:37,400 that's why I got confused, Yeah, that we made about Lulu. 552 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,799 And yeah, well, I'm so delighted that you were willing 553 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,680 to share a story. I know this hasn't been easy 554 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,480 even think about sharing it. It's a it's a lot, 555 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,319 it's a lot to heal and it's a lot to 556 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,799 offer up others. And we know that we're we want 557 00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:57,119 to help others who are in this situation. So reach 558 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,839 out to Meritis or myself or to give me the website. 559 00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:05,200 One more to the Facebook again, losing a lot of 560 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,440 Facebook is a private group that you can get a 561 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,200 lot of support and if you're being face with this 562 00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:15,039 decision and life can be easier when if you're being 563 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,480 held captive by you know, a relationship with an animals. 564 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,559 So thank you Meredith Hollinson for being a guest here 565 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,200 on the Human Animal Connection. 566 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 3: Thank you Jeanie. 567 00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:28,119 Speaker 2: We'll see you again next time. 568 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,119 Speaker 3: Bye for now. 569 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 4: Let's talk Pats every week on demand only on Petlife 570 00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:58,359 Radio dot com.