Speaker 1: Preparation is making sure that everything you would do is
Speaker 1: aligned with the strategic goals, the strategic priorities that are
Speaker 1: relevant to this person.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Audible Ready Podcast, the show that
Speaker 2: helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature
Speaker 2: sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create
Speaker 2: a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.
Speaker 2: Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
Speaker 2: B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm
Speaker 3: Rachel klepp Miller and joining me for our episode today
Speaker 3: is our own Timkato. Hi, Tim, Hello Rachel.
Speaker 1: What a fun topic we have today.
Speaker 3: Yes, today we are going to dive into the value
Speaker 3: based conversation. We talk a lot about making sure you're
Speaker 3: getting higher in organizations, elevating those sales conversations. You know
Speaker 3: you need to do it, but what is the motion
Speaker 3: that you need to remain focused on that in every conversation.
Speaker 3: So Tim's going to help us dive into that today.
Speaker 3: I think first, Tim, let's just level set with how
Speaker 3: I know if I'm too low in a company.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, let's start off with a premise you are.
Speaker 1: Everybody experiences this and once again, rachild, this is not
Speaker 1: a new concept, right. We've been talking about this as
Speaker 1: long as I know. I've been around in selling, and
Speaker 1: that goes back to the seventies, and I'm sure it
Speaker 1: was there before. But we've learned some things over the years,
Speaker 1: and then some other things have changed in terms of expectations.
Speaker 1: So one of the things I want to start to
Speaker 1: level set is let's reframe this. For years, when we
Speaker 1: talked about calling higher or elevating your call, it was
Speaker 1: almost like an exercise and org chart exercise. I'm at
Speaker 1: this level. I want to get to this level. I
Speaker 1: got to get to this level, and sales managers and
Speaker 1: people would be chasing that holy grail of calling on
Speaker 1: that senior executive. But what we figured out is there's
Speaker 1: a lot of risk in that. We see it as
Speaker 1: there's risk in not getting there, and everybody understands that one.
Speaker 1: But you know what, there is risk in getting there
Speaker 1: if you're unprepared. A lot of data has been written.
Speaker 1: You could get there and fail and guess what, you're
Speaker 1: never getting back. So it's not just call on someone,
Speaker 1: it's make sure that when we talk elevating your selling
Speaker 1: you're calling. I believe it's not as much about an
Speaker 1: org chart, Rachel, as it is about influence. Am I
Speaker 1: interacting with the people that influence the company's strategic priorities
Speaker 1: executing their goals? And if I am, then what we've
Speaker 1: learned over the years is how do I position myself
Speaker 1: my company as relevant to their business issues. We've learned
Speaker 1: a lot over the years, Rachel, not only what works,
Speaker 1: but what does not. And I think what everybody understands
Speaker 1: is what does not is for me to give that
Speaker 1: senior level executive and overview my stuff, my product, that's irrelevant.
Speaker 1: But we haven't figured out why right. And then we say, well,
Speaker 1: we've got to be more focused on business issues. Well
Speaker 1: what are the business issues? And they say, well, we
Speaker 1: can lower your costs and we think that's the message, right,
Speaker 1: But what we forget to do is figure out from
Speaker 1: their view, so why does that matter. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: grow my business. I'm trying to grow in new markets.
Speaker 1: I just did three acquisitions, so I appreciate the fact
Speaker 1: you're lowering my cost but that's not my issue right now.
Speaker 1: And Ding, Ding, guess what you're not relevant to? Me.
Speaker 1: So at some point we get around one of the
Speaker 1: lower cost maybe I'll remember this, but right now, thank
Speaker 1: you very much, really appreciate it. I got a team
Speaker 1: over there that you got to go spend some time
Speaker 1: with to lower the cost. My focus is elsewhere. So
Speaker 1: let's level set on this, Rachel. It's not about calling
Speaker 1: on a level that's got a title. It's about calling
Speaker 1: on influence of the strategies and priorities of the business.
Speaker 1: That's where we want to go with the discussion.
Speaker 3: Right, And you want to make sure that when you're
Speaker 3: having those conversations, relevancy is at the forefront. You know,
Speaker 3: everybody listening sells a lot of different things. They're having
Speaker 3: different value conversations, but there are some main things that
Speaker 3: when you're elevating your sales conversations to those layers of
Speaker 3: influence that those people are going to care about.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: You threw out some They're like, I just merged with
Speaker 3: a company, I have these priorities.
Speaker 4: There's probably some big buckets that you're going to want
Speaker 4: to look for to ensure that you're consistently elevating those conversations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and it's not hard to find them
Speaker 1: if you take the time, because here's my thing, you know,
Speaker 1: when you we talked about it's getting access to those
Speaker 1: with influence, even that is not the goal to me.
Speaker 1: The endgame is return access. I'm doing this to make
Speaker 1: sure that I can continue to position our value, show
Speaker 1: what we can do help influence their ideas of what
Speaker 1: they're influencing. Right, So we're trying to do that. But
Speaker 1: it's return access and we'll get into that in a
Speaker 1: little bit more. But what's going to cause me to
Speaker 1: get return access, initial access and then return access to
Speaker 1: those that are influencing or dictating the strategic direction of
Speaker 1: their organization, Well, I better be relevant to whatever that
Speaker 1: strategic direction is aimed at. Are they finally at the
Speaker 1: point of their digital transformation journey that's been going on
Speaker 1: for twelve years already where they're now looking at AI
Speaker 1: and saying, is this the thing that we've been missing along?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how I justify on my
Speaker 1: board that we spend all this money on this thing
Speaker 1: and I can't show a whole lot of results other
Speaker 1: than we've spent a lot of money on tools and
Speaker 1: systems and security and now maybe this can offer something different. Well,
Speaker 1: I better have some value relative to that. So when
Speaker 1: you talk about how do you find it? I think
Speaker 1: practically it's do our due diligence before we go into
Speaker 1: the call. We're singing you do is going to that
Speaker 1: call and not be relevant to this person's priorities. So
Speaker 1: I might be able to find it just by doing
Speaker 1: research on the organization. I might understand it because we
Speaker 1: deal with other organizations that are similar, that are dealing
Speaker 1: with similar things, so we can interpret this organization has issues.
Speaker 1: But I think it's always best if we could find
Speaker 1: something specific. Do we have partners that understand what the
Speaker 1: priorities of those executives are? And then Rachel, our old friend,
Speaker 1: the champion, can they give us some insights, not just
Speaker 1: about the company. I want to know about this person.
Speaker 1: What was she brought in to do, what is her focus?
Speaker 1: What is she making moves to do? That's what I
Speaker 1: want to understand. And then once I understand that, the
Speaker 1: next thing I could do to prepare to be relevant
Speaker 1: and compelling is to have a point of view tied
Speaker 1: to that problem. See. One of the things I think
Speaker 1: we make a mistake in Rachel that we've learned over
Speaker 1: the years. We try and get access to the power
Speaker 1: the influencers, so that we could show them the value
Speaker 1: of our solutions. Let them know we're experts in our solution.
Speaker 1: What have we learned. They don't care about that. They
Speaker 1: expect it that we're going to talk about it. They've
Speaker 1: experienced a lot of bad selling, but that's not what
Speaker 1: they care about. They care about are you an expert
Speaker 1: in my problem? So just the mental pivot of I'm
Speaker 1: not here to be an expert in my solution our industry.
Speaker 1: I'm here because we deal with the organizations that have
Speaker 1: your exact issue, and as a result, we have a
Speaker 1: point of view about that. It's not just this, it's
Speaker 1: this other thing. Now where do I get that point
Speaker 1: of view? Well, hopefully from your product team, your marketing team,
Speaker 1: the founder, the innovators, whatever it was. But have a
Speaker 1: unique perspective that causes that customer to think, this is
Speaker 1: about my issue, but we hadn't thought about it that way,
Speaker 1: and that's actually rather interesting and compelling. Let's take your
Speaker 1: point of view and apply it to my situation. Now,
Speaker 1: what you're doing is you're being relevant to them, and
Speaker 1: what makes you really compelling is if they get some
Speaker 1: insights about their business they didn't have before as a
Speaker 1: result of dealing with you on these podcasts, Rachel, you
Speaker 1: and I have talked many times about the metaphor of
Speaker 1: going to a specialist physician. Right. I don't expect them
Speaker 1: to go there and tell me what the other people
Speaker 1: told me. I expect to get some expertise. And so
Speaker 1: when they start asking me questions, do an exam point
Speaker 1: things out, do tests. I'm learning some things about me
Speaker 1: and I am leaning in big time, right. And it's
Speaker 1: the same thing when we get to those folks that
Speaker 1: have power influence over the strategies. Do we position ourselves
Speaker 1: as experts on solving that problem? Do we have a
Speaker 1: compelling point of view that causes them to think a
Speaker 1: little bit different? And then can we start to engage
Speaker 1: with them on how does that point of view play
Speaker 1: out in their world? And what insights are we trying
Speaker 1: to help them understand. And that's what that's what we're
Speaker 1: really looking for, their perspective on the point of view
Speaker 1: on the problem that's relevant to their world. Now, they're
Speaker 1: learning something, and if they learn something and it plays out,
Speaker 1: guess what's going to happen? They're going to ask you
Speaker 1: back in Yeah, that's where the return access.
Speaker 3: Comes, and it's continually having that point of view throughout
Speaker 3: the sales process to make sure that you once you're
Speaker 3: up there, you stay up.
Speaker 4: There, right absolutely.
Speaker 3: And then you had mentioned at the top the preparation
Speaker 3: for those higher level conversations versus maybe the ones you're
Speaker 3: having when you first get into an organization. Talk a
Speaker 3: little bit more about what that preparation should look like
Speaker 3: and how it's different.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, first of all, I've already given a
Speaker 1: few clues. It's about their problem, not your solution. It's
Speaker 1: about having that point of view that you can articulate.
Speaker 1: But there's some other things there, Rachel. One of the
Speaker 1: first times I even remember learning about champions or someone
Speaker 1: that could sell on your behalf is I had one
Speaker 1: many years ago. I was calling a Ford Motor company
Speaker 1: for my company and I was twenty eight years old,
Speaker 1: and I had this person that was great, definitely a champion,
Speaker 1: no question about it, But at the time I was
Speaker 1: frustrated with him because I was getting hammered by my management.
Speaker 1: Even back then, right early eighties. You're not calling high
Speaker 1: you ought to be calling on this person that person,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, I'm asking my guy, hey, can
Speaker 1: you give me an introduction there? And you know what,
Speaker 1: he told me, Rachel, You're not ready yet. You're not
Speaker 1: ready yet. And I'm like, was because I'm twenty eight
Speaker 1: you know? No, no, no, you don't know the protocol,
Speaker 1: you don't know how to position when we do. And
Speaker 1: it took two years and finally, you know, he said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring into this meeting and you and
Speaker 1: I are going to prep for that. I said, does
Speaker 1: that mean I'm ready? He said, well, mostly, but I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that you're ready. So a lot
Speaker 1: of preparation in the flow of the meeting, who was
Speaker 1: going to be there, how we were going to tee
Speaker 1: it up if I'm there with somebody else, almost orchestrating
Speaker 1: the roles to make sure that we're laying out the
Speaker 1: premise of why we're there and in that role that
Speaker 1: champion way back then told me, this person gets called
Speaker 1: on all the time by sales organizations. He takes about
Speaker 1: ten percent of those meetings. He has an expectation of
Speaker 1: what will occur in the first five minutes, he's got
Speaker 1: an expectation of what will occur in the next fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: and he's got an expectation of where this is going
Speaker 1: to end. So you and I are going to orchestrate
Speaker 1: this accordingly. And he knew people from my company were
Speaker 1: going to be coming in because it was forward right,
Speaker 1: and he said, it's your job, Tim to make sure
Speaker 1: they all play their roles. So preparation is knowing what
Speaker 1: the big issue is in aligning everything you do towards it,
Speaker 1: but even orchestrating the introduction, the how you're going to
Speaker 1: set it up, how you're going to share that point
Speaker 1: of view, the discovery that's going to go on afterwards.
Speaker 1: And there's one last piece, Rachel. We don't always know
Speaker 1: this one, but we've come to learn it's really important.
Speaker 1: Where is that influencer in their organization. Where is that
Speaker 1: senior level person in the life cycle of dealing with
Speaker 1: this problem, because we know so their focus is on
Speaker 1: different things. Is it early in the life cycle they
Speaker 1: know they've got a problem, or they've got an issue,
Speaker 1: or it's become a priority, and that senior level influencer
Speaker 1: is spending all their time framing what are the outcomes
Speaker 1: we want? What is this thing intended to do? Maybe
Speaker 1: all the way down to defining budgets and a team
Speaker 1: to work on it, very highly engaged up front. If
Speaker 1: we can talk to them in that time period with
Speaker 1: our point of view, what influence we can create on
Speaker 1: how that initiative goes? The problem is, Rachel, more often
Speaker 1: than not that part of their process of dealing the
Speaker 1: life cycle of the problem, we don't know about it.
Speaker 1: It's going on. When do we typically find out about it?
Speaker 1: The project team that was given all that direction and perspective,
Speaker 1: they're now working on it. But here's the thing, guess
Speaker 1: where the senior executive is now. They're onto something else.
Speaker 1: They've already given their guidance to the team. They assume
Speaker 1: the team is running with it. So it's almost like
Speaker 1: this trough. It's like an inverted you. They're really highly
Speaker 1: engaged upfront, they kind of go away in the middle,
Speaker 1: but then they re engage at the end, Rachel, And
Speaker 1: why do they re engage? Then they want to check
Speaker 1: not only to make sure the team came back with
Speaker 1: a solution that they were looking for, but more importantly,
Speaker 1: they want to know did they come back with a
Speaker 1: solution that's still relevant to today's priorities. I know what
Speaker 1: I told you six months ago, and it looks like,
Speaker 1: you did a great job finding that, but that's not
Speaker 1: our big issue now, it's something else. So why do
Speaker 1: I say this is part of preparation? Are they early?
Speaker 1: If so, I got to double down on my point
Speaker 1: of view to help influence the way they see that problem.
Speaker 1: Are they in the middle right? What they're doing is
Speaker 1: at best checking in to make sure the direction is right.
Speaker 1: We can't be in there trying to position our point
Speaker 1: of view when they think the project's already going. There's
Speaker 1: a different rhythm for that meeting, and that is to
Speaker 1: share insights on progress, to talk about maybe something that's missing,
Speaker 1: something new that has emerged that we didn't know about
Speaker 1: six months ago. And then at the end, this is
Speaker 1: the piece. A lot of times, Rachel, people miss they think, wow,
Speaker 1: I got my project. I'm working with the project team,
Speaker 1: we were selected, were in contracts, this thing's done. Perfect
Speaker 1: time to double check with the influencer, economic buyer, senior
Speaker 1: executive to make sure is this thing that was a
Speaker 1: priority a few months ago still a priority relative to
Speaker 1: today's issues. Now. We almost always can see that, Rachel,
Speaker 1: but they don't always see it, and their team doesn't
Speaker 1: always see it. We've all unfortunately been part of that call. Hey,
Speaker 1: what you did was great, but we've had a few
Speaker 1: other things come up and the deal slips. It's preparation.
Speaker 1: Where are they at in their cycle, and let's prepare accordingly.
Speaker 1: It's not a one size fit. It's all for a
Speaker 1: senior executive conversation. So you kind of have to know
Speaker 1: what's going on with them, where are they at in
Speaker 1: their cycle, what's our point of view, what's the discovery
Speaker 1: we drive accordingly? I know I covered a lot there,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's really because that's where we've messed.
Speaker 3: Up, right, right, And you know, you can make a
Speaker 3: lot of missteps when you're trying to elevate your sales conversation.
Speaker 3: You know, you mentioned one at the top, going too early,
Speaker 3: and I would think summarizing what you just said and
Speaker 3: then not preparing for the right type of conversation given
Speaker 3: where we are in the life cycle of everything. Are
Speaker 3: there other mistakes that you've seen sellers make when they're
Speaker 3: trying to elevate those kinds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know again one of them. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess it all kind of falls under not being prepared
Speaker 1: but seeing it as a checkbox in their qualification thing. Right,
Speaker 1: I just want to get there once and not having
Speaker 1: a purpose for the call that's meaningful to that executive.
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't take them very long to know
Speaker 1: that who am I dealing with here? In fact, ask
Speaker 1: yourself this, what's the conversation they're going to have with
Speaker 1: my champion after this call is over? Are they going
Speaker 1: to say, Wow, that was a great person to bring
Speaker 1: in here. Their company really knows what's going on, but
Speaker 1: they could really help us here. Or is the conversation
Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum. Why did you waste
Speaker 1: my time with that? Don't ever bring someone like that
Speaker 1: in front of me again? What are we supposed to
Speaker 1: do with all that? And I think that's a lot
Speaker 1: of time the outcome unfortunately, when we're all about just
Speaker 1: have the executive meeting and that takes all kinds of forms.
Speaker 1: Great chel Back when I started so on the thing,
Speaker 1: we always said, well, my president, my CEO is going
Speaker 1: to be in town. They'd really like to stop by
Speaker 1: and see you. You know, I don't have time for that.
Speaker 1: What's the reason, what's going on? What's your expertise? It's
Speaker 1: always great I can have somebody do that positioning because
Speaker 1: remember this, Rachel, here's The other thing we know, when
Speaker 1: do most of us try and gain access to them
Speaker 1: when they're in that trough of engagement, they're not engaged anymore.
Speaker 1: All the research on calling on senior executives said the
Speaker 1: same thing. The only way you're going to get access
Speaker 1: to them only way like it works ninety five percent
Speaker 1: of the time, whereas everything else is a hit rate
Speaker 1: of about five to seven percent. Don't send them a book,
Speaker 1: don't get them tickets to the big game, don't take
Speaker 1: them to the no no, no, no. Someone they trust
Speaker 1: recommends that they meet with you. Whether that's you know,
Speaker 1: now we're back to the power of champion our networking.
Speaker 1: Someone they trust says, this is an issue you're dealing with,
Speaker 1: and you got to meet with these people over here.
Speaker 1: They're the best in the world at this ninety plus
Speaker 1: percent of the time, I think the last research was
Speaker 1: ninety five percent. That executive will take that meeting and
Speaker 1: then and we've got to align what we do accordingly,
Speaker 1: not just getting a check. You know, like we called
Speaker 1: on them so I could get by my opportunity coaching
Speaker 1: deal review session. Did you get with the executive? They say, yes,
Speaker 1: that's not what I want to know, what did you
Speaker 1: learn from that meeting? What did they learn? What's your
Speaker 1: next meeting with them? What are the top two or
Speaker 1: three things we need to focus on with them? That's
Speaker 1: what I want to know. Unfortunately, Rachel, those meetings go bad.
Speaker 1: So when you want to know, what's the mistake, it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of a version of not preparing, but not
Speaker 1: preparing correctly and probably being misguided in what the purpose
Speaker 1: of that meeting is or the endgame. The endgame is
Speaker 1: to influence the influencers thinking and help them see we're
Speaker 1: highly relevant and compelling. Relevant meaning we are seen as
Speaker 1: experts in the problem they have, relevant to what's going
Speaker 1: on with them right now, and compelling. We got point
Speaker 1: of view or a way of looking at it that's
Speaker 1: different than where they might have been thinking about it
Speaker 1: or that they've heard conventional thinking, and it's intriguing to them.
Speaker 3: That's the outcome that gives us a lot of things
Speaker 3: to think about.
Speaker 4: I love that concept of the you right.
Speaker 3: And if you were to give people listening a one takeaway,
Speaker 3: is it preparation? Is it the tailoring of the message
Speaker 3: to that point in time?
Speaker 1: What would your words way? I think, well, it's preparation
Speaker 1: and execution, right. But I think preparation is making sure
Speaker 1: that everything you would do is aligned with the strategic goals,
Speaker 1: the strategic priorities that are relevant to this person. That's
Speaker 1: our value proposition. We're experts in this. That's the whole
Speaker 1: be relevant side, be compelling. Have a point of view
Speaker 1: or perspective on that. It's not here's what my platform
Speaker 1: will do to be able to help you with that.
Speaker 1: It's here's what we've learned about that problem and the
Speaker 1: three or four challenges organizations have, and the three or
Speaker 1: four things you got to put in place to avoid that.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about my platform. I'm talking about your
Speaker 1: world and your issue, and so it's be ready to
Speaker 1: give that. Very few selling organizations have a point of
Speaker 1: view on the problem. Like I said, they'll go in
Speaker 1: and say, hey, we can lower your risk, we can
Speaker 1: lower your costs, we can help you drive revenue. They
Speaker 1: don't finish the conversation. The conversation is, we can lower
Speaker 1: your risk because of the breaches you've had over the
Speaker 1: last five years. We can drive more revenue because you
Speaker 1: lack the ability to access data in a timely way
Speaker 1: to be able to make good decisions to pivot in
Speaker 1: the marketplace. So it's tying it back to the things
Speaker 1: that are strategically relevant. It's not just showed the business value.
Speaker 1: It showed the business value tied to their strategies and
Speaker 1: priorities one hundred percent. You know, one of the things
Speaker 1: we talk about, Rachel is what do they have in
Speaker 1: common level. You say, okay, they care about revenue, cost
Speaker 1: and risk. Yes, right, but that can put you on
Speaker 1: a slippery slope to assume, like a persona based selling approach.
Speaker 1: They've got this title, therefore they must care about these things.
Speaker 1: That's not guaranteed, especially in today. You know, you might
Speaker 1: be way off and you never get access again. What
Speaker 1: they care about one hundred percent of the time their
Speaker 1: growth strategies and priorities. So I would say it's better
Speaker 1: to not make a call unless you got some confirmation
Speaker 1: on those things first. That's preparation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Speaker 3: Lots to think through today, Tim. We tackle this topic frequently,
Speaker 3: but there's always a lot of angles around it.
Speaker 4: So I appreciate you going through those with me today.
Speaker 1: Oh well, you know, we always want to give to
Speaker 1: people something to think.
Speaker 4: About, and there's plenty there's plenty.
Speaker 3: Thank you Tim, thank you Rachel, and thank you to
Speaker 3: all of you for listening to the Audible Ready Sales podcasts.
Speaker 5: At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into
Speaker 5: elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company
Speaker 5: alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the
Speaker 5: ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Speaker 5: Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.
Speaker 5: Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com.
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